Open 654 | Surrealism - Game over


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Zachstralkita
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Post Post #1025 (ISO) » Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:29 pm

Post by Zachstralkita »

is mimikyu your boy
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Dunnstral
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Post Post #1026 (ISO) » Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:31 pm

Post by Dunnstral »

Spoiler: Mimikyu
In post 73, Mimikyu wrote:
In post 49, Ümläüt wrote:I agree Aubrey's entry felt awkward but I'm chalking it up to new-player weirdness.

VOTE: The_Jester
I like Skold's reasoning for this.
What could you have liked about that reasoning?

VOTE: Umlaut
In post 54, BlackStar wrote:
In post 23, Aubrey wrote:Wow, a lot more activity has occurred right out the gate than I was expecting in comparison to my previous game. Any who, usually the day starts out with RVP and just getting feelers for people in general, so It'll be more interesting once everyone has confirmed.
Who talks like this? We all now how RVS works so there's literally no point to this post at all. It's just fluff designed to look positive.
In post 24, Aubrey wrote:
In post 8, Skold wrote:Impeccable reasoning Blackstar. I'll sheep that hard.
VOTE: umlaut
Heads up I don't scumhunt because it's stupid and leads to basically random lynches. I'm warming to town read into PoE but that could be a symptom of positivity bias that suggests because when I town read someone I am statistically likely to be right, I end up believing my townreads are accurate.
So basically your goal is to just locate townies, and by process of elimination locate the mafia/werewolves? Why not just do both (Scumhunt and Friendhunt)? In a game like this, one needs to do both in order to be successful to me. At least that how I go about it. To just locate townies (without considering the scum motivations) seems like an excuse in order to avoid certain conversations.
And then you try again to look overly townie with that "one needs to do this in order to be successful" part. There's more than one way to play Mafia and it's weird that you're trying to doubt cast someone just because they do things differently from you
Going after the low-hanging fruit much? Anything to add that isn't just an elaborate parrot?
In post 53, Gamma Emerald wrote:Okay, I believe it's time to start RQS. I'll be taking three suggested questions this time, so think of something that could help advance the game.
1: What is your preferred faction: Town or Mafia?
2: What role interests you the most? Does not have to be in this setup.
3: What do you think the differing factions will do to town's chances?
4: REQUEST SLOT
5: REQUEST SLOT
1. Mafia. Way more fun and you essentially control your own destiny,
2. Cop. So powerful, but very difficult to play correctly.
3. Depends on how town handles it.

Overall:
I like Ari and Gamma. Don't like Skold, BlackStar, or Umlaut.
In post 93, Mimikyu wrote:
In post 92, Ümläüt wrote:
I think this is a towntell (scum is happy to accept a townread for whatever reason it's given)
Eh, I would argue that a player almost always gains MORE towncred by criticizing someone's townread of them. You can accept the single townread or you can critique it and receive multiple others.

I am now less convinced of Aubrey being town. Feels more like tryhard scum at this point.
In post 96, Mimikyu wrote:
In post 95, Ümläüt wrote:A towntell doesn't become a scumtell just because it can be faked, it becomes a weaker towntell or at worst null.

Granted that scum can criticize townreads on them as well (I just saw this in Micro 635 in fact). It's still
more likely
to come from town.
Well it's not that it's a towntell becoming a scumtell. It's just a faux-towntell in the first place. I disagree that it's more likely to come from town. Town like being townread too.
In post 99, Mimikyu wrote:
In post 97, Ümläüt wrote:Well, you're wrong in this case but I'm not going to keep arguing the point.

Incidentally, RQS is garbage and I'm not going to humor it. The effect of giving everyone a survey to answer is that it saves everyone from having to find their own way to break the ice. Manner of entrance is the best/only way to form reads in the very early game, and having everyone enter in the same manner spoils that.
Well you can't argue it because you don't have evidence. Simple enough. No one should be giving any credit either way for interactions like that. That's a terrible way to find town or scum.
In post 104, Mimikyu wrote:
In post 103, Ümläüt wrote:Mimikyu, I want to drop the point because it's not worth arguing about unless Aubrey is a serious suspect and will only distract from actual scumhunting, not because I don't have a case to make.

Trying to paint my willingness to drop the point as surrender looks bad for you, as does trying to force a scumread on Aubrey even while you take Blackstar to task for doing the same.
I'm not trying to paint it as surrender, but pointing out it would have been futile if you didn't. And I'm not particularly concerned with how you think something looks for me, especially since I don't think you're town.

Regarding your last point, it's almost as if reads can change as we hear more and get more information.
In post 112, Mimikyu wrote:
In post 111, Ümläüt wrote:VOTE: Mimikyu

I just don't see what could have happened within Aubrey's few posts on page 4 to change Mimikyu's read like that, yet Mimikyu says it's because he "hear[d] more and [got] more information." Aubrey's 91 in particular struck me as towny if anything. He is being quite transparent in his reasoning process and explaining himself clearly. I wish he didn't have quite so many null-reads but it looks as if he is at least trying to sort them.
It doesn't take much to change a read early in the game. Aubrey had two large posts on page 4 that both pinged me a bit for different reasons.
The interaction of 80, 84, 85 pings me as well.
  • Mimikyu seems to misunderstand what Aubrey means by "slanted eyes" and talks as if it means people are sheeping Blackstar
    This is not what happened at all. He seemed to lump other people in with me as if they were all suspicious of Blackstar for his suspicion of Aubrey, when in actuality I was the only one that expressed this particular sentiment. I'm not sure what you even think I could have meant. In no world did I think people were sheeping BlackStar.
  • Aubrey explains what he means
  • Mimikyu responds: "You said he was getting slanted eyes due to his quick assessment of you, and AFAIK I am the only one who did so for that reason," as if that's what he meant all along, when he clearly didn't.
This is not what happened at all. He seemed to lump other people in with me as if they were all suspicious of Blackstar for his suspicion of Aubrey, when in actuality I was the only one that expressed this particular sentiment. I'm not sure what you even think I could have meant. In no world did I think people were sheeping BlackStar nor does my comment state that. I even said that the people didn't feel it was scummy like Blackstar did. Clearly not sheeping.
This reads to me as a scum attempt to appear consistent.
Am I trying to appear consistent? I thought I was explicitly wavering and changing my reads.
In post 115, Mimikyu wrote:
In post 113, Ümläüt wrote:
In post 112, Mimikyu wrote:It doesn't take much to change a read early in the game. Aubrey had two large posts on page 4 that both pinged me a bit for different reasons
Can you share those reasons?
I already pointed out some of these things, but the generalizing slanted eyes comment, disliking the Gamma questions, the awkward explanation on his "newness", several "obv" statements for towncred ("Just because someone likes to play scum doesn't mean that they are immediately going to be more likely to become a disengaged townie.").
In post 116, Mimikyu wrote:
In post 114, Ümläüt wrote:
In post 112, Mimikyu wrote:This is not what happened at all. He seemed to lump other people in with me as if they were all suspicious of Blackstar for his suspicion of Aubrey, when in actuality I was the only one that expressed this particular sentiment. I'm not sure what you even think I could have meant. In no world did I think people were sheeping BlackStar nor does my comment state that. I even said that the people didn't feel it was scummy like Blackstar did. Clearly not sheeping.
I wasn't saying you thought people were sheeping Blackstar, I was saying you argued with Aubrey as if you thought he said people were agreeing with Blackstar (by pointing out that they weren't).
Oh I mean I definitely didn't think that. He seemed to imply people were suspicious of Blackstar, I commented that people actually agreed with his feeling that Aubrey was awkward, but disagreed with the suspicion. This stance feels far from suspicion to me.
In post 120, Mimikyu wrote:Keep in mind ping =/= inherently scummy action. It has a lot to do with gut and encouraging others to review and see if they feel the same. I have a feeling it's going to be trouble getting the town to lynch someone like you, since people are often intimidated by those who put a lot of time into their posts. Thankfully the town isn't required for you to die in this setup.

As for why I think Umlaut isn't town, I think you can read my posts and figure out exactly how I feel. Holding your hand won't be necessary.
In post 174, Mimikyu wrote:
In post 144, Zachstralkita wrote:
In post 85, Mimikyu wrote:
2. The point is it gets people talking. Talking about anything is better than talking about nothing. Someone says their favorite is mafia, they are more likely to become disengaged as town.

Here's where you're wrong. Noise is noise.
I don't agree. Many of the games I've lost as town involved lurkers being allowed to lurk before we finally lynched them and they were town. These questions can at least get people talking that otherwise might be less involved. Gives us something to engage them on.
In post 159, BlackStar wrote:
In post 157, Ümläüt wrote:Let's go Bayesian with this.

If you took every scenario where you held a read as strong as your current read on Aubrey, what percent of the time do you expect that person would actually flip scum?

(I wouldn't call a read 10/10 unless that number were damn close to 100%.)
This conversation is dumb as hell. It's just a slight scum lean and you all keep blowing this out of proportion. I don't know why you're all up in arms about a scum lean. Jesus Christ...
Agree. That line of questioning is trash. Strength of scumread vs. chance of being scum is not some graph you can chart on. Especially this early on, it's mostly gut and we're arguing semantics.
In post 259, Mimikyu wrote:
In post 257, Ümläüt wrote:
Mimikyu wrote:Still dislike Umlaut; he's scum.
Page 8 is way too soon to have a strong scumread, but page 10 is just right.
Who spoke of strength?
Mimikyu wrote:Don't care for MeowMix's re-entrance. Comes in like he's doing something, but just starts a new wagon on someone with no real suspicion. Makes no effort to comment on anything else that has happened.
MeowMix's entrance didn't exactly give me a warm feeling but it did give me a new perspective on Gamma, which qualifies as "doing something." Re. "no effort to comment on anything else," do you actually believe this is a scumtell?
For MeowMix it doesn't feel good. It feels like someone entering the game, pretending to be an active participant, but avoiding getting involved with anything with any real weight.
In post 266, Mimikyu wrote:
In post 260, Ümläüt wrote:
In post 259, Mimikyu wrote: Who spoke of strength?
You said flatly "He's scum." That means you think I'm probably scum, though you seem pretty uninterested in making this case. See 120 where you're just like "read my other posts" when Aubrey asks you to explain your read.
It's still early. I still think strong words are better for reactions than sitting closer to the fence.
In post 260, Ümläüt wrote:
In post 259, Mimikyu wrote: For MeowMix it doesn't feel good. It feels like someone entering the game, pretending to be an active participant, but avoiding getting involved with anything with any real weight.
For MeowMix
it doesn't feel good? But, what, for someone else it might?

In general, do you find effort to be alignment-indicative? Because I don't.
No of course not, but this has little to do with effort. It has to do with the illusion of effort.
In post 261, Aubrey wrote:What would you rather them talk about if you have agreed with Dunnstral in the fact that previous talks have been a big fat nothing? I see nothing wrong with them trying to progress the game further with a new take on something. The only thing I think they could go into more detail on is who they think maybe townies up until this point.
What is their new take?
In post 267, Mimikyu wrote:
In post 265, Ümläüt wrote:VOTE: Mimikyu

This is a good vote for two reasons.

First, he's scummy. His stated positions are all over the place. He makes me his top scumread based apparently on one vote on Jester (this is the only reason he's giving, and when asked to explain his read he says "look at my posts"). He thinks that Aubrey is scummy, Blackstar is scummy for scumreading Aubrey, that anyone attacking Blackstar is scummy. He's eager to argue about minutiae (refused to let me drop the topic of "is rejecting townreads a towntell") but reluctant to sell his actual reads.
I'm concerned you don't know what it looks like when someone thinks another is scum.
In post 275, Mimikyu wrote:
In post 272, Ümläüt wrote:
In post 267, Mimikyu wrote:I'm concerned you don't know what it looks like when someone thinks another is scum.
I read this like 50 times and I have no idea what you're getting at.
In post 265, Ümläüt wrote: He makes me his top scumread based apparently on one vote on Jester (this is the only reason he's giving, and when asked to explain his read he says "look at my posts"). He thinks that Aubrey is scummy, Blackstar is scummy for scumreading Aubrey, that anyone attacking Blackstar is scummy.
According to this I think everyone is scum which is a terrible misrep.
In post 284, Mimikyu wrote:
In post 276, Ümläüt wrote:Please remove the statements you don't believe:
  • Aubrey is scummy
  • BlackStar is scummy

  • Everyone who has attacked BlackStar is scummy
    • In post 287, Mimikyu wrote:
    In post 249, Zachstralkita wrote:What is the basis for your read on me. You're not accomplishing anything except being vague. And doubtcasting meowmix, and taking no real stance on mostly everything else save for Umlaut.
    For me it has a good bit to do with gut. Usually when people have your kind of abrasive style, I've seen certain things accompany it as each alignment. As town, it's likely due to being overconfident, but I don't actually feel that controlling confidence from you. It feels abrasive to no real end.
    In post 283, Zachstralkita wrote: Why do my actions have to be catered to you?
    Not about catering to me. It's about not being a jerk. Not being a jerk helps other people feel more open to talking and discussing, which is good for town. Silence for is not.
    In post 277, Ümläüt wrote:
    In post 274, Mimikyu wrote:Sorry I actually misread that first part as talking about Dunnstral before. MeowMix may have had a new take, but it was one that was sure to go nowhere I think. No one else had expressed interest in anything close to a Gamma vote. Just felt like adding to something knowing that it would likely be brushed off.
    You heard it here, folks. After 72 hours it's too late to bring in a new read.
    Clearly this is not how I feel. But MeowMix didn't bring anything truly new or interesting to the table. Rehashed some old ideas, called it a scum read.
    In post 288, Mimikyu wrote:
    In post 286, Ümläüt wrote:Out of those who have attacked BlackStar who are you not scumreading?
    I'll tell you who I am scumreading and you can decide from there. You, Zach, MeowMix. Others that have slight scumreads have more to do with them not saying much, but I'd rather not highlight them for that since I'm likely just falling into a trap there.
    In post 306, Mimikyu wrote:
    In post 305, Ümläüt wrote:
    In post 304, BTD6_maker wrote:Having a take that goes nowhere is not a bad thing at all.
    You should take this point up with Mimikyu, who is happy to hand out a scumread based on it.
    Mafia 101: We are not looking for scummy actions. We are looking for scummy
    intentions
    .

    The action combined with the context of this game, the timing, his post history, and my gut lead me to believe that the action was done with scummy intentions. It is not just about an action. No action is scummy in a vacuum.
    In post 384, Mimikyu wrote:
    In post 383, Something_Smart wrote:I don't even know what I was thinking when I wrote that O.o
    I guess I thought one of them voted the other for some reason...
    I voiced my suspicion of him but he didn't really say anything about me. FWIW my vote would be there if Umlaut wasn't the stronger read.

    FWIW also like SS's entrance, although admittedly it may have something to do with the opposing reads of Umlaut who I think is scum. Only played a couple games with more than one scum faction so still figuring out how to work with that.
    In post 391, Mimikyu wrote:
    In post 389, Something_Smart wrote:
    In post 388, Something_Smart wrote:
    In post 384, Mimikyu wrote:
    In post 383, Something_Smart wrote:I don't even know what I was thinking when I wrote that O.o
    I guess I thought one of them voted the other for some reason...
    I voiced my suspicion of him but he didn't really say anything about me. FWIW my vote would be there if Umlaut wasn't the stronger read.

    FWIW also like SS's entrance, although admittedly it may have something to do with the opposing reads of Umlaut who I think is scum. Only played a couple games with more than one scum faction so still figuring out how to work with that.
    Yeah, you did push him, but it wasn't the "one of them is probably scum" interaction that I somehow thought it was.
    Oh, I forgot, I was also going to ask about the second line: does that mean you agree with my reads?
    For the most part. Can't say I feel as strongly about Jester and I'm still torn on Ari since he's been absent.


    Well here's what I think: Mimikyu is solid town. Seriously like 80% of his iso is talking to Umlaut, or about him, but actually looking through the content it looks like they're not together on the same team and instead Mimikyu is scumreading Umlaut

    Now after looking over that, think: Would Mimikyu, as a werewolf, have motivation to kill Umlaut? I really think he wouldn't have made that kill as scum
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