[Mini 1835] - Everything Is A Lie Mafia 4 (Abandoned)

[SirCakez]

VOTE: bulltnlynchproof

[BNL]

UNVOTE: SirCakez
VOTE: shos

Since the owner of the Counsel manipulator vote didn't claim, they're likely scum. I think that shos' recent posting regarding the Counsel (363 and 422) is just faked confusion/faked "I'm not involved", as his reveal by the counsel was already hammered.

In light of this, 117 also suggests Shos' possession of the double vote.

[BNL]

If not for the Counsel reveal, Ircher would be my strongest scumread.

Firstly, he has changed his vote too much for my liking.
Next, 311-312 seems like a potential scumslip
Third, 333 case on L&L is extremely weak. Of twelve points, only one is scum, and almost all are null.
Fourth, 348 and 362 vote an anti-town townie? Why would you vote someone who you believe to be lynchbait than actually scum? (I know Ircher has elaborated this in later posts; I don't buy them)

[BNL]

And some of us aren't hydras, so why should we have to sign?

~Arrow

Because me signing these posts are about as ridiculous as me signing posts under main account.

~Leather

Wow, this sounds kinda like a LAMIST tone.....

Huh? L&L was talking about something NAI, so why would it be a LAMIST tone?

Ircher, answer this please.

[BNL]

Flames is town

[Vedith]

So was the council in the start of the game or no?

[KuroiXHF]

VOTE: BulletNLynchProof

I don't like his posts.

[BNL]

VOTE: BulletNLynchProof

I don't like his posts.

What don't you like about my posts?

[KuroiXHF]

VOTE: BulletNLynchProof

I don't like his posts.

What don't you like about my posts?

They're scummy as fuck.

[BNL]

VOTE: BulletNLynchProof

I don't like his posts.

What don't you like about my posts?

They're scummy as fuck.

That's obviously implied; what's scummy about my posts?

[KuroiXHF]

VOTE: BulletNLynchProof

I don't like his posts.

What don't you like about my posts?

They're scummy as fuck.

That's obviously implied; what's scummy about my posts?

For one, how they're polar opposites of your play in Science Mafia, a game in which you were town.

[xyzzy]

@xyy and Ircher explain the 3 votes instead of 2.

~Lina

your guess is as good as mine

[The Counsel]

Next to doing the right thing, the most important thing is to let people know you are doing the right thing.

With the vote count its proved that the second vote of counsel is seprate from the first one and can't be controlled by public voting from the counsel. We wanted to vote shos in our last post but we decided to wait to see his reaction to this first. The rest of this post is answers to some questions you asked and representing why we think shos scum for the way he reacted. Hope you trust us and help us pushing the scum who is using the name of the counsel.

Can dead people post through the Counsel?

from our knowledge only the dead counselors may continue to post and vote using this, As we claimed The chairman of Counsel may add people to this proxy as well so its not limited to us.

Will you pls vote Leather for wanting us to waste a dayvig shot?

If a majority asks us we will. if not we will vote whoever we scum read.

The Counsel appears to have some pro-town ability and lynching it does not look like it will help you.

This is bullshit.

The Counsel enables two hidden votes.

Anyone that seriously wants transparency in reads should want that slot dead on those ground alone.

The owner of the counsel is a double-voter, as is the private manipulator of the second vote.

Anyone that wants a fair voting process should want The Counsel dead on those grounds alone.

The Counsel has the power to recruit the private vote manipulator, effectively giving The Counsel access to four votes.

WHY DO WE NOT WANT TO KILL THIS THING?

We claimed the name we recived as we promised. We scumread them and we won't add any of our scumreads in here unless majority asks us to.

I am interested
They said the dead/wguerts controlled the account didn't they?

We never claimed - and we wont ever claim the position holder(s) in counsel as its a mod killable offend for this proxy and a suicide claim for the mains. This has extra reasons beside the extra vote which I can't claim eaither.

I also believe The Counsel is scum controlled because requiring consensus on releasing pro-town information eats up a lot of day and sidelines town from scumhunting.

What If I hand you an scum? What if I just did? That is the core meaning of scum hunting.

Now, my question to Leather is -- What will this tunnel accomplish, ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE WRONG?

That's ready to answer.

1) It will make everyone accountable for their own views, REGARDLESS OF THE ALIGNMENTS OF THE OWNER AND SECOND PRIVATE VOTER.

2) It will remove two double-voters REGARDLESS OF THE ALIGNMENTS OF THE OWNER AND SECOND PRIVATE VOTER.

3) It will pacify me, REGARDLESS OF THE ALIGNMENTS OF THE OWNER AND SECOND PRIVATE VOTER.

There's, three excellent reasons to kill The Counsel.

Now, I have a question for you!

Another approach is to purify the access to this and let the town utility to continue working. I suggest that.

1) Moot point. The Counsel has already stated that they will follow any voting restrictions, wont hammer, and any info they give has to be democratically determined. That holds them accountable as we can autolynch them if they go back on their word.

Not moot. They only control ONE hidden vote, which gives scum a double-teaming as long as they're alive.

Also, The Counsel's very existence counts against living majority for town.

Exactly. We don't take any responsibilities for the other voter and we think their scum too.

The second sentence is wrong. You may count this account as a survivor whose vote is tamable. I'm giving you all the tether and some of you which are decided by majority or are town reads by us can touch the power closely. So as I said in last post town will win if this account is still alive and all of the scums are lynched and death of this account has negative effect as town will loose access to one of the votes and mafia will be closer to controlling majority.

I think it's incredibly strange that you would ask the Counsel, confirmed non-town, to pressure vote us, when you weren't even doing so yourself. That seems very fake to me.

We find this scummy as well.

I'm jumping from shos posts as I want to analyze them isolated.

Wrong.

That post does not say they are controlled by the moderator. That post is asking players not to vote them.

Huge difference.

The Counsel already admitted they were a proxy account being used to keep from outing their main when giving info.

Hidden source + multiple private votes = scum mechanics.

As we claimed The dead counselors may continue posting - and voting using this - . We don't know if the dead will join this automatically. That's why the people who are getting added in here matter.

The equation you posted is just dumb! But ok. There is something we can't claim + There are the information we can give you + tameable public vote + we outed the beholder of the private vote

This is the correct equation. I'm not asking you to townread us. This is not town. Its just a tamable utility which might be purified by sorting the hidden voter.

Also, something weird -- Sometimes the Counsel says "We" yet othertimes "I" when refering to themselves. Any ideas why?

The counsel has several sits and as i claimed earlier it may even get new counselors when the game proceeds . Whenever I used "we" I mean the counsel as a united existence and whenever I used "I" , I meant the Voice of Counsel.

Why should I believe you?

You can't believe the mod himself. How do you expect me to make you believe me? I promised to share something and I did.

Leather and Lace (3): Ircher, xyzzy
The Counsel (1): The Counsel, shos

We don't know anything about how the hidden counsel vote works. We received the identity of the person who messed with it after they used it. We don't know if its a unique ability (only shos can do it or not) and we don't know why its not getting counted on the wagon its on it.

As this post is already long I will represent the counsel opinion about shos in next post. sorry for the wall.

[Leather and Lace]

They have 128 posts dude. 128.

That's because I'm DOING SHIT!

counsel should tell us who they are and who has the other vote

That's what I've been doing, but you want to receive the benefits of my efforts while also casting shade for the work it took to get here?

Screw that dude.

I don't know what you're talking about.

You have spammed the thread like shit. you are doiong shit, yes, but SHIT does not need to be done, ANY SORT OF SCUMHUNTING does.
there is literally no content. at all. in the last 11 pages or so.

Just because you don't like my scumhunting doesn't mean I haven't been doing it.

In fact, you don't like it because it outed you.

VOTE: shos

Take your hidden double voting ass to Hell.

[Leather and Lace]

So was the council in the start of the game or no?

Of course it was, We crossfired RVS votes.

Like, right off the bat.

[Leather and Lace]

What If I hand you an scum? What if I just did? That is the core meaning of scum hunting.

Means nothing if you're third party, which you already admitted being.

If you can't tell, I don't trust you.

[The Counsel]

I don't understand what harm can be caused by that? Even if scum has control over the vote, we can leash it, right?

counsel should tell us who they are and who has the other vote

VOTE: The Counsel
I think the counsel is managed by scum. anything that has been said here is either wifom, bullshit, or empty promises. at best, this can keep us wifoming instead of actually scumhunting and playing the game. already it poofed 15 pages of nothingness.

I want this gone.

Look at this progression? They tried to defend us (when they weren't at the point we claimed we know who has the private vote), when he progressed his catch up he read that and attacked us instead. Nothing about leashing us was changed when he progressed his catch up. He was clearly afraid about getting outed. He attacked The counsel for "empty promissing" hopeing we don't know the real name - when there was no post by counsel after the point the majority was achieved till the point they attacked us. This is just a made up reason. He accused that the detail we are outing is "Nothing"; clearly afraid of the detail which was going to get exposed when its not really making him scum by its own. He was afraid for getting questioned and that is clear as day.

Counsel, could you elaborate how you got to that conclusion?

This is not a deduction. Its an information we received from the mod when you used the vote privately. The fact you didn't deny possessing that ability means your trying to have it both ways ;to react based on what was the resource. Your confused and the only thing you can think of is attacking us for discrediting the way we received that information. This by itself proves that you have the ability.

VOTE: Shos

If anyone has a objections to this step forward. If not help us to purify this proxy.

[The Counsel]

Means nothing if you're third party, which you already admitted being.

If you can't tell, I don't trust you.

This account has no alignment. Its not a third party. It vote is helping the town as mafia needs it gone to achieve majority faster. Its existence won't make anyone winner. Its death won't force anyone to loose - from the much I'm informed of - .

The Voice vote in counsel is tamable and other may take its tether starting tomorrow.

I can't tell anything else about this utility as there is nothing more! I can't tell who is the voice as I claimed and That's the only thing you can't force me to answer.

Ask me anything else.

[Leather and Lace]

If anyone has a objections to this step forward. If not help us to purify this proxy.

I object.

Not to the subject of your vote, but you're use of it.

Regardless of your alignment, votes should not be used extraneously.

If you want my trust, unvote and vote on your main.

That is not TELLING us who you are.

[The Counsel]

UNVOTE: UNVOTE:

We can't use the a majority for the vote of this account as if the majority is already willed to vote someone, They are already lynched.

For that we won't vote in this day phase at all

, Till this account get a publicized voice. Is that acceptable for you?

If this account was voting it would vote Shos.

This is how I will address our will for vote during this day phase.

[The Counsel]

UNVOTE:

[Davsto]

will post tonight

hopefully

maybe

idek

[Rylai and Lina]

VOTE: Shos

confirm or deny , "how you concluded this?" is neither >.>

this might actually be 1v1 as we suspected. this makes sense as it has one extra vote for town and one for mafia - to balance stuff. Its only bug is why should mod put a way for the real counsel to know the identity of the hidden voter cause that makes no sense - unless scum was supposed to keep it for later use or has an ability or enough starting numbers to compete with this.

[Rylai and Lina]

But then still

outing Shos was too easy for town. I don't feel ok with the whole interactions , if you get what I mean.

[Leather and Lace]

outing Shos was too easy for town. I don't feel ok with the whole interactions , if you get what I mean.

If they manipulated a vote, they need to die, period.

It's entirely possible that scum abused mechanics that were meant to be used in a more subtle manner and told on themselves before they could make proper utility of the vote.

-or-

More than one person has access to it and the second vote will lay dormant until an opportune moment to swing a mislynch at a crucial time.

In that scenario, The Counsel remains a threat regardless of their overt beneficence.

That's a matter for another day, however. shos needs to swing and I need to break out of this stupid paranoia tunnel.