Mini Normal 1829 - Game Over

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: kraska

L-1

[Shadow_step]

@Nero telling people how they should play pushes them away from the game thread.

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: Transcend

[Shadow_step]

I don't like his soft defense of blitz and calling the wagon awful.

[Shadow_step]

Did you roll scum kraska?

[Shadow_step]

Look at how fast this bw on me happened I am obv af town no one busses scum this early

Ur town af cause scum wouldn't bus this early? Any reason it can't be all town on your wagon?

I don't think town would vote me this early because I honestly don't see the reason I'm getting voted is it cause my RVS question or because I won't answer because I need someone else to take a guess on what it is first I truly don't understand why I'm getting sr I was really excited to flip town this game and I didn't expect to be at L-2 on day 1 I only can assume some scum are on my wagon

Who do you think are the scum on your wagon ?

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: elyse
if uve really seen scummaria before, u would know that scumher is consistent as f
this doesnt resemble her scumplay at all

You know that meta can be manipulated right ?

[Shadow_step]

didn't want this to happen so early but mariar has given me permission in our pt

MariaR and I are masons.

*slow claps*

Is masons having daytalk considered normal in "normal" games ?

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: gerrygoat

Your scum gambit isn't going to work.

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: gerrygoat

Your scum gambit isn't going to work.

uh. ok.

Gun down: Shadow_Step

Should I laugh ?

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: gerrygoat

Your scum gambit isn't going to work.

What makes you think its a scum gambit over a town gambit?

If you were scum and he was town, would you fall for that ?

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: gerrygoat

Your scum gambit isn't going to work.

What makes you think its a scum gambit over a town gambit?

If you were scum and he was town, would you fall for that ?

so you're saying you are scum

Omg you're a genius!
*slow claps*

No. I meant about your "slip", if you were town you would know scum never fall for that kinda shit, only thing it ever achieves is that it confuses town. Hence there is no town benefit behind doing that.
Hence proved you are scum.

[Shadow_step]

No, this is the only mafia forum I play mafia on, I know kraska and maria from the last game we played on this site.

Other than that I know Thor.

[Shadow_step]

That was my first prod ever bleh

Catching up now

[Shadow_step]

ahem... moderator....

Question to everyone else
Are jesters allowed in normal games?

[Shadow_step]

I would lynch Kraska, Maria, or Elyse. I would happily help policy Shadow.

What the hell you on about ?

[Shadow_step]

that was a pretty fast catchup shadow. Anything else to add?

Festive season here, had to go out so quickly skimmed the thread.

[Shadow_step]

ahem... moderator....

Question to everyone else
Are jesters allowed in normal games?

fake

Kiss my ass

[Shadow_step]

it's shadow/blitz/michel

everyone else is town gg

Transcend logic - everyone who town reads me is town, everyone who scum reads me is scum.

[Shadow_step]

I thought she meant it as in my game is wavering in this game and it was pretty perfect in the scum game so she thinks I'm town that logic seems fine to me or did you take it a dif way

You think it's ok to base a meta read on one game of experience?

Especially now that you say you change every game?

ughghdfhsgdsfad stupid mason claim I want to lynch you with fire

So I'm on page 20 right now and I have to ask people's opinions on something: The mason claim was pretty obviously a load of bs-ass bullshit and people discussed why. Maria wouldn't have acted the way she did when her wagon built up because she'd have the claim to save her. But then why are people hesitating to vote for Transcend/Maria at that point? Is this more of a site meta thing where the claim is just assumed to be true? This might just be hindsight bias from knowing the claim is obviously fake but I feel like there should be a vote in this post.

My readlist at the moment is (in no particular order):

Strong town

: Kraska (mostly from meta, otherwise she'd be a townlean), Thor

Town

: MariaR, Nero, Michel

Townlean

: JJD, IAI

Null

: Gerryoat, Karnos, Blitzkrieg

Scumlean

: Shadow_Step

Scum

: Elyse

I can explain any of these reads as needed.

Also,

IaI

, can you talk to me about your Blitzkrieg read? Thanks.

Yes please

Trying to read me as scum to emulate your town play in the last game ?

[Shadow_step]

That sounds like bullshit, you think you can meta me after one game?
Last game was different, maria basically scum claimed but all of you were fucking blind to it. Nothing of that sort in this game.

Gerry is a bigger scum read that you, so why should I be voting you ?

[Shadow_step]

Why if my partner is on your wagon wouldn't I be voting you ?

[Shadow_step]

That doesn't make sense, you are saying I should be voting you to secure a lynch while also saying that I'm not voting you because one of my buddies are on your wagon.
I have more than enough reason to vote you as either alignment so why the hell would I hesitate?

[Shadow_step]

I've already explained why Gerry is scum, I don't believe in making the thread toxic and asking people to vote Gerry in every post I make.

Also I'm vary of confbias plus he hasn't posted much content at all.
Do you really think the Elyse wagon is going places ? You should be voting gerry with me.

[Shadow_step]

I've seen scum do all kinds of crazy shit in RVS on this site itself, like claiming scum for example and they get a free pass because it is joke phase.
Gerry's PR slip makes zero sense as town Gerry. Like the friggin game was already in full swing the joke phase was long gone and this guy decided this fake PR slip.
Where the fuck is the town motivation behind this ?

[Shadow_step]

I'd support a karnos wagon.

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: Karnos

All aboard !

[Shadow_step]

fakedit: I voted gerry because there was no reason to claim, it was obviously not an accidental claim. It might have been a harmless joking post, but we were way past RVS at that point and I didn't see any towbn motivation to start BS posting again.

I've seen scum do all kinds of crazy shit in RVS on this site itself, like claiming scum for example and they get a free pass because it is joke phase.
Gerry's PR slip makes zero sense as town Gerry. Like the friggin game was already in full swing the joke phase was long gone and this guy decided this fake PR slip.
Where the fuck is the town motivation behind this ?

I'd support a karnos wagon.

VOTE: Karnos

All aboard !

Does this logical progression make any sense at all? Am I being bias because shadow_step is voting me, or did he basically use the exact same argument I did for scum gerry, and then vote me, despite his argument being a copy of my own?

Lmao
Skimming much ?
I was voting Gerry before you even posted about him. Wtf you on about ?

[Shadow_step]

Also, where the ... did that karnos vote come from? You didn't mention him at all before maria suggested him. On the other hand, you had shown quite a bit of suspicion on the gigaslot. Why is karnos a better lynch then giga is?

I want more pressure on the slot and we have enough time to lynch Giga.

[Shadow_step]

Élysé u willing to vote shadow?

Not like the wagon on your buddy Karnos?

[Shadow_step]

Where the hell have I been lurking?!
Do you even know what lurking is ?

[Shadow_step]

I've been dying to lynch Gerry for ages now.

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: gerrygoat

[Shadow_step]

vote shadow

??

[Shadow_step]

I think you quoted the wrong post. ^

[Shadow_step]

Their lurking hasn't got much do with it, I've explained my Gerry read while karnos I just wanted more pressure on that slot to sort him out.

[Shadow_step]

Who is the Titus alt?

[Shadow_step]

IAI, why are you ignoring my questions?

[Shadow_step]

With a that lurking they are doing you'll be waiting a long time. :/

Fuck off, go and check what lurking means. I live in a different timezone.

[Shadow_step]

With a that lurking they are doing you'll be waiting a long time. :/

vote:Shadow

this is who we should have lynched yesterday. Wouldn't surprise me if Maria was flash wagoned to save him.

???
I was never on more than 2 votes IIrc. What shit are you talking ?

[Shadow_step]

The case on me is "meta" and people just randomly agreeing to vote me.
NC can you actually point out something you find scummy?

[Shadow_step]

The case on me is "meta" and people just randomly agreeing to vote me.
NC can you actually point out something you find scummy?

the case on you isn't meta. Kranka is arguing that you

ARE

playing to your meta town. The case on you is complete lack of scumhunting + Maria getting wagoned to save you.

but while we are on the meta topic, show me your last scum game.

Did you even read what I said earlier? There were like 2 votes on me, you call that a wagon?

And if you think I'm scum because of the people that voted Maria, why are you voting me ?

[Shadow_step]

it's a bit scary.

you know what I find scary? your lack of scumhunting.

Precisely. He has done even less than me. Why are you letting him coast ?

[Shadow_step]

I'll get into details later but pretty sure Elyse and Kraska are town.
Gerry and Karnos are strong scum leans.

[Shadow_step]

IF

Giga and Maria had not moved their votes from you there would have been a nice 4 man wagon on you. Its my

feeling

that the wagon on Maria picked up after I voted you.

I think your logic is flawed and you are confbiasing. Or scum and keeping a scum read on me is convenient.

[Shadow_step]

Is masons having daytalk considered normal in "normal" games ?

Can you remind me why you asked this.

Because I didn't know what is considered normal in normal games. From what I've seen on this site the masons had night talk only. Maria and Transcend mentioned talking in their mason PT. So I found that odd.

[Shadow_step]

With a that lurking they are doing you'll be waiting a long time. :/

Fuck off, go and check what lurking means. I live in a different timezone.

Yeah, what ur doing is the definition of lurking. I don't care what timezone ur in. The few posts that you are making are filled w/ zero content.

You're:

- barely pushing the few scumreads you have
- not letting anyone know what ur other reads are
- not trying to scumhunt even a little bit

And the following are all townleans: Elyse,

gerry

, Michel, kraska

Double standards much?

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: JJD

JJD/Gerry

[Shadow_step]

Don't dodge the obvious.
Explain the gerry townread and why are you scum reading me for essentially the same thing he is doing?

[Shadow_step]

Double standards much?

Gerry is town cause ur "scumread" on him sure as hell aint a bus. Not cause of anything he did.

lol, pre flip bs?

[Shadow_step]

@Giga we are on day 2 and your best reason to vote me is playstyle?

[Shadow_step]

Okay fuck this shit.
I will get roleblocked or die after I claim anyway which is why I didn't want to claim.
I'm a Vanilla Cop.

Checked Elyse N1 to make sure she wasn't lying. She's vanilla.

[Shadow_step]

Lynchbaity play was on purpose so that I could get some investigations in without getting killed.
There is literally no reason for people to scum read me. It is just bloody convenient and annoying af.

[Shadow_step]

Like that's the one result he can give the town right now that he knows wont be countered.

And why not check someone ur scumreading?

and what would that get me?
A goon will come as vanilla and town pr/scum pr will come as not vanilla. How does that help in anyway??

[Shadow_step]

I thought my best chance tonight was catching Elyse in a lie, is she was scum.
I don't get what I would get investigating Giga like you are saying? It would just prove she is ascetic, it wouldn't be alignment indicative.

[Shadow_step]

How do you know that? Isn't there a chance Gig is lying?

There is, but was inclined to believe it after Maria's flip.

[Shadow_step]

Did u just change the reason that you didn't investigate giga?

I didn't, like I said I thought it be more effective to check Elyse and that way I would atleast have a cleared townie if nothing else.

[Shadow_step]

I thought my best chance tonight was catching Elyse in a lie, is she was scum.

but as you say, a goon would come back as vanilla so its not like you've confirmed she was town, just not a PR.

I think goons claiming vanilla is dangerous AF because they do most of the killing. They won't be able to account for their movement if they claim to be Vanilla. Whereas Mafia PRs don't really use their night actions every night esp if they are x shot. So it is easier for them to claim Vanilla. So I figured...

[Shadow_step]

How do you know that? Isn't there a chance Gig is lying?

There is, but was inclined to believe it after Maria's flip.

Shadow, can you explain what exactly about Marias flip made you believe gigas aesthetic claim?

Maria flipping town ofc, it is very ballsy play to claim being masons who are not your buddy and trying to protect them.
I mean it could have backfired so hard. Transcend claims to be masons with maria as scum. Town maria says he is lying. Transcend gets lynched. I don't see scum being so stupid.

[Shadow_step]

hrmmmm....

I

was just about to buy into the blitz/karnos/shadow team and then I looked at 649.

Shadow was a town cop. He did not lurk, you were active and were trying to game solve. He

WAS shot

on n4 but still...

Shadows

claim that he was lurking and being lynchable here doesn't mesh with 649. I mean Kranksa could just be horrible but I'm back to thinking she might be scum especially if he flips scum.

In that game I was last in the draft. I knew I wouldn't be a priority kill even if my reads were right.

[Shadow_step]

I don't understand why you are asking me silly question? I obviously had a bigger scum read on Gerry.

[Shadow_step]

Bigger than transcend

[Shadow_step]

Bigger than transcend

how does that have anything to do w/ what I said?

Were you scumreading maria?

Yes, to an extent.

[Shadow_step]

what have you learned fron your D1 pressure on Gerry bc I didn't really see much pressure.

His wagon never took off early on when I voted him, and when it did he just laughed it off(like he knew most of them were pressure votes) and the wagon derailed on him and I couldn't learn much.
Today he hasn't done anything either and from this post we can see that he isn't reading the thread either.

hi shadow can you answer me? Why didn't you check me. I was your biggest scumread, and Maria said you should lynch me after she was lynched. Why was I not checked??

Do you have any townreads Gerry?

[Shadow_step]

I'm good with a Shadow or Blitz lynch.

Blitz has done nothing townie at all. It's just a scumslot, there's nothing else to it.

Shadow saying that he was playing lynchbaity so he could get results seems like BS to me because he's a vanilla cop. Like maybe I could see that if he was an actual good role, but vanilla cop sucks. It doesn't add up. The check on me is also very convenient because if he's scum, he knows I'm telling the truth and doesn't have to worry about calling a PR vanilla.

Why would I lie about investigating you with investigative roles a possibility ?

[Shadow_step]

Ever heard of watcher or follower etc?

[Shadow_step]

Why the hell would I claim a vanilla cop then? Why not claim a cop and say that I have a town result on whoever the fuck I want because I would know everyone's alignment.

[Shadow_step]

Response to JJD ^

[Shadow_step]

Why the hell would I claim a vanilla cop then? Why not claim a cop and say that I have a town result on whoever the fuck I want because I would know everyone's alignment.

Well Vanilla cop doesn't confirm anyone as town.

If u claim cop then you'd have to tell us that Gerry is town (I'm assuming he's town if ur scum) and then u couldn't park ur vote there like ur doing right now.

Yeah I claim a town result on Gerry and then I can easily claim I was rbed on all the other nights . I'm voting you BTW. Nice try

[Shadow_step]

INTENT

[Shadow_step]

I like my vote but I think we're going a little fast. That could just be me getting used to the shorter deadlines though.

Shadow, I'm really liking Jarjar for town. Why are you scumreading him?

Because of his reaction to my claim and post that.
First thing he did was that he voted someone else so I think he obviously believed what I said. Scum would want to get off a T pr wagon asap.

Then he probably realised it would look bad and started doubting my claim again. I can't quite wrap my head around that.

Then he wants town consensus whether he should be voting me again or not. Like he's paranoid about doing that and wondering how it would look. Scared of derailing the blitz wagon sounds like bs. We weren't 24 hours from deadline or something.

[Shadow_step]

@Karnos, NC lynch isn't going to happen today. Join me on JJ.

[Shadow_step]

I can try, what do you think about what I did about JJ?

[Shadow_step]

Said *

[Shadow_step]

Why would it look bad?

That question was serious?
Obviously cause scum believe claims readily and not town.

[Shadow_step]

What happened to ur "intent" shadow?

Sorry I don't really buy your low content = scum, water tight case on blitz and don't really want to lynch a claimed doc.

[Shadow_step]

Nero, what do you think about JJD ?

[Shadow_step]

Karnos wanna declare hammer intent on blitz?

I'd rather have Thor hammer. If he needs a case, then I'll explain mine, but I think it would be better to explain to people off the wagon why this is the lynch for today tomorrow.

Shadow, JJD is not only very likely town, if people agreed with your case against him they'd speak up about it at this point.

Yeah the same way my case against scum Maria was ignored in 649 :/

[Shadow_step]

Tbh at this point blitz just seems like low hanging fruit.
I've played quite a lot of mafia games and lynching scum never has been this easy.

[Shadow_step]

Without cop guilties and stuff like that obviously.

[Shadow_step]

quick questions:

• 1. Why does a team with JJD kill IAI?
  2. Who makes sense as a team with JJD?

because atm the IaI kill really looks like a kill someone who isn't voting Blitz right now would do.

IAI kill could have been done to frame me, he was pushing for my Lynch latter stages of day 1. Or scum thought he was a PR. Two birds one stone.

Gerry could be buddies with JJ. I don't understand his townread on Gerry. I don't think anyone else is townreading gerry (?)

[Shadow_step]

@Thor

Spoiler:

Unvote: MariaR
Vote: Elyse

The Kraska wagon is fine.
The IAI wagon is comical.
The Geryoat wagon is okay, but I don't think anyone has actually thought through the bad play to translate it into pro-scum play, and when they do they'll see it's a pretty empty agon at this stage.

I still don't think I did anything to warrant a sr on me

How many scum do you think voted you?
Yeah - you did stuff to get scumread.
You even admitted that you weren't doing towny things on purpose because it would be CHEAP - so what are you even talking about?

We're not lynching Gerry unless you can explain why what he did is scummy in any way at all.
In other news - vote for Elyse.

Thor, what are you talking about the vote on no one?

I am assuring the game that a vote on no one will never be a vote on scum.

Do you think we can swing Maria? I don't want to Unvote one scum to chase another.

Maria is very obviously a lynch option for the day.

At the moment it is a Maria v. Gerry situation, which is super exciting to me.

B: My townflip will probably point to the fact that town is looking in the wrong direction, which I think it is. I am completely serious when I say that I want people to just put Maria and Kraska on ignore D2 and focus on the slots that haven't received much pressure. Kraska is really obvious town and I know I'm going to be the only one who sees that. Maria could absolutely be scum, but she's still a distraction I think, especially when there are lurkers who I can't even read (I think Karnos might be the town one, that's really all I got). More slots need sorting and pressure, not enough work was done D1 because Transcend was an idiot. Starting D2 off with another RVS/AVS actually is not that far-fetched of an idea, that's how badly information starved I think this town is.

Your argument for you being distracting is equally applicable to Maria.
Your campaign here is either scummy or terrible town play - so stop it either way please and thank you.
I don't need a second Maria in the game.

I think he's a lurksack and I glared at him from the computer when he white knighted Thor. I think white knighting is p scummy and depending on how the game goes I may be up for lynching that.

What would be the gain of the white knight though?
Either I was being replaced - in which case no town pocket, or Trans was being replaced - which would weaken the scum vibe he was pushing on him, and also I was on record not supporting that lynch.

can you explain your read progression on gerry here? In your first two posts you say that you are not interested in lynching Gerry at all and you also defend him, and then in the third post(bolded part) you say that the Maria v gerry situation is exciting for you. It implies that you were scum reading him at that point or am I reading that wrong?

[Shadow_step]

I thought shadow was scummy yesterday, but the speed of this wagon and the presence of scummy individuals on it makes me think he is

probably town.

giga is scum, nero is scum,

shadow *might* be scum getting bused.

There seems to be some weird idea that scum wouldn't dare bus, when it's absolutely a viable play in this game.

There also seems to be some absurd push to lynch when we still have nearly 4 days left to work with. I don't have a lot of time most weekends, and I was doing an application for an apartment over this weekend so I have been even busier than usual. I'll probably catch up tomorrow, but whether I do or not the town players on the wagon should slot the hell down instead of rushing to a lynch with little thought.

What changed?

[Shadow_step]

Do you think that him saying that he doesn't want to reveal his target because it would help scum makes any sense if he believes that he blocked scums attack?

Yeah, if he thinks that he prevented a mafia kill, the person they protected is conf town.
I don't see how town benefits from revealing who that person is as of now.

[Shadow_step]

I'm making a reasonable assumption that any townie won't be dumb enough to end the day prematurely. While scum can feel free to hammer, we are auto lynching them tomorrow.

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: Karnos

no support for the JJD wagon

[Shadow_step]

How is it prematurely? We've voted him to L-1, he's claimed, there's been a ton of discussion about it. YOU even posted intent @ 1 point.

That was obviously to get him to claim duh
By prematurely I meant we have more days.

[Shadow_step]

I have zero interest in lynching a claimed doc.

[Shadow_step]

I have zero interest in lynching a claimed doc.

So u gonna vote giga then?

Cause right now ur basically not voting.

No I'd rather lynch karnos

[Shadow_step]

Why would I let that happen?

[Shadow_step]

@Kraska are you opposed to a Karnos lynch?

[Shadow_step]

@Kraska are you opposed to a Karnos lynch?

Dude, can u dodge me any more?

What the hell do you want? Want me to predict who I'd hammer two days from now?

[Shadow_step]

Is future!shadow_step played by a different actor? Why wouldn't you be able to predict who you will hammer? Are you that indecisive?

Why are you answering for JJ before he even replies?

[Shadow_step]

Is future!shadow_step played by a different actor? Why wouldn't you be able to predict who you will hammer? Are you that indecisive?

Why are you answering for JJ before he even replies?

Did you really need clarification? It was an obvious question and you are still dodging it.

BTW, I was asking you a question, I wasn't answering one.

Nice spot /s

How about you answer the question I asked you before?
You said you were caught up right? Apparently not.

[Shadow_step]

Is future!shadow_step played by a different actor? Why wouldn't you be able to predict who you will hammer? Are you that indecisive?

Why are you answering for JJ before he even replies?

Cause that was obviously the correct reply.

I don't understand why you want me to state the obvious. If I end up dead tonight you guys cab speedlynch Titus. If we lynch her today, we'll most probably lose two town PRs and in total 3 by day 3. So right noe I'd probably vote Giga to secure a Lynch.

[Shadow_step]

What I do know is that scum are not bussing Giga due to how the wagons have danced around him.

the same can be said for you.

Like Gerry is literally avoiding posting and Shadow is trying to avoid having to vote you or Giga since if he votes Giga and she flips town it sinks you and he doesn't really want to bus you.

Why exactly the fuck wouldn't I be bussing Titus ?

[Shadow_step]

but Titus scum=Shadow scum REMEMBER THAT!

Oh I'm sure you'll find a reason to find me scummy no matter what Titus flips.

[Shadow_step]

I still don't think shadow is scum fwiw
Shadow I'd be impressed of you somehow manage to swing a wagon on someone else at this point but I don't think you'll be able to do that. So. What are you waiting for? Hammer Titus ffs

Like I've already said, if we lynch blitz today and if he is actually town doc I end up dead tonight. I don't see why we are doing Scum's work for them. As long as blitz is alive I'm not going to be the priority kill.

How about we lynch Karnos who is actually scum?

[Shadow_step]

Not unless absolutely necessary.

[Shadow_step]

Dhadow, barring Titus' claim. Explain why shes town?

Cause nobody has actually explained as to why she *is* scum.
Low content, lurking they are not cases I'd follow on anyone.
Her day 1 interactions with Transcend came of to me as town, esp where transcend went on an abusing spree.

[Shadow_step]

I honestly don't give a flying shit if scum give me town cred or not JJ.

[Shadow_step]

she's playing to her reactionary scum meta.
she's making up stuff like town has a vig and this is role madness and can't show any examples of a mini normal role madness game. This is a specificly designed idea to try to explain why there are more PRs than usual.

Claiming she'd vig IaI when she wasn't scum read him.

Like I'm not going to convince scum they are scum or thier buddy that they are scum so I'm just going to pray that Thor is the hero town doesn't deserve or Karnos actually goes through with his intent to hammer if enough ppl agree.

*round of applause*

Meta rocks, meta all the way --> Titus scum gogogo

Fuck meta. Look at intentions --> Shadow is scum.

Why the hell is Nero town again?

[Shadow_step]

I'm a vanilla cop not a Neapolitan!!!
I think JJ had a positive on me obviously.

[Shadow_step]

It's karnos, Thor/NC

Fuck Elyse could be SK.

[Shadow_step]

same shit boi

You're doing it again.

My role is obviously so that the gunsmith gets a false positive.

[Shadow_step]

NC = Nero Cain.
There is no way Titus wasn't getting bussed there, she was a goon.
In guessing Karnos off the wagon and Thor/NC on the wagon.

Giga is unlikely to be scum. I have a vanilla on Kraska.

That leaves elyse and Michel. One of them could be the SK.

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: Karnos

[Shadow_step]

Giga is unlikely to be scum. I have a vanilla on Kraska.

That leaves elyse and Michel. One of them could be the SK.

you do realise it could be and probably is a vig too right?
why the hell did you out your result

Hmm could be a vig, though I'm not sure why he didn't target gerry n1?

I am the most suspected player and I would have been forced to claim my result first anyway. Just sped up the process.

[Shadow_step]

why would sk skip a kill?

It's something I'd do as SK.
So as to not immediately be on the scum radar of who to kill.

[Shadow_step]

Pretty sure it is the first variant according to my role pm, but I've just asked CT for confirmation.

[Shadow_step]

At least the vig made a decent shot. I feel pretty strongly about this being a vig btw because I would think a serial killer would have actually killed me instead. It might seem egotistical, but I think that I'm a somewhat believable vig-shot (my slot is scummy enough, at least to karnos... plus, i was low-key baiting it yesterday, and high-key D1) and Gerry could have easily been lynched. I can't really think of any smarter serial killer targets. Otoh, a vig just has to shoot scumreads, which is what Gerry was.

SK would want to kill scum too, neh?

[Shadow_step]

Why are people scumreading Nero Cain again?

Seriously what was his reason to scum read blitz pre-claim?
Ans. Meta
blitz was a goon anyway, NC setting up a hard bus on blitz from day 1, isn't unlikely at all.

she's playing to her reactionary scum meta.
she's making up stuff like town has a vig and this is role madness and can't show any examples of a mini normal role madness game. This is a specificly designed idea to try to explain why there are more PRs than usual.

Claiming she'd vig IaI when she wasn't scum read him.

Like I'm not going to convince scum they are scum or thier buddy that they are scum so I'm just going to pray that Thor is the hero town doesn't deserve or Karnos actually goes through with his intent to hammer if enough ppl agree.

*round of applause*

Meta rocks, meta all the way --> Titus scum gogogo

Fuck meta. Look at intentions --> Shadow is scum.

Why the hell is Nero town again?

[Shadow_step]

I'm an ascetic bulletproof cop

Let's do this then

Popcorn Karnos

[Shadow_step]

so i take it you are not in favor of a massclaim

pedit: @karnos ^

@èlysè: i kind of think that the lack of a vig shot N1 means that that person might have shot scum then which is why i'm pro-massclaim... kraska not cc'ing shadow's result means she's not the vig, yet I think that she's the only person who would have vigged titus N1, so the vig probably shot scum that hasn't been flipped yet. also rb+doc+goon is too strong of a scumteam imo, so there's probably no rb... but then we don't know there's a doc for sure

rb is kind of unlikely tho considering how the investigatives already work against each other and there's even NU...

Rb with x shot could be a possibility imo

[Shadow_step]

Karnos self voting reminds of a horrible player from 649 ughh.
Giga what do you think about Thor?

[Shadow_step]

Facts point to Shadow being scum.. What??
If anything I should be conf town because of that JJD gunsmith check on me.

[Shadow_step]

I really don't get the Kraska 180 on me, how about you ask why I checked you instead of jumping to conclusions straight away?

[Shadow_step]

Why would you waste a check on me

Because I didn't understand your strong town read one me from both the days.
After blitz flip of maf goon, I was sure there was at least 1 scum on his wagon. I thought if NC is town he probably ly gets killed cause he'll be very hard to mislynh after that flip.
So it was between Thor/Kraska, I ead getting all paranoid that scum! Kraska figured out that I was a town PR from my play and was buddying up to me to prevent me using an NA on her.
That's why I chose kraska.

[Shadow_step]

i feel like town deserves to know this

i wasn't scumreading karnos D1 because of a game that was ongoing at the time. There, Karnos felt a lot more slimey and manipulative than he is here (where he seems more useless and close-minded), but I can't honestly townread him, so I put him at null. With a lot of obvtown yesterday and karnos's hesitation to join my wagon at first, it made sense that he was a Blitz buddy but I wasn't as sure about him as I was with Gerry (who flipped town). And now that 646 is over, I can't help but acknowledge that Karnos is responding to pressure a lot differently there than he is here. There has to be a reason...

For the record, I think only possible teams are Elyse/Shadow, Thor/Shadow, and Thor/Karnos so? Leaning towards Thor/Karnos atm. Elyse/Karnos is technically possible but very unlikely considering Shadow's result on her... Pretty much ensures that Karnos fakeclaimed vanilla as a Doctor or doctor encryptor or something, which seems unlikely.

Kraska, Nero, and Michel are all super obviously town. I know I'm town for a fact. So PoE dictates that the pool

has

to be out of those four, and Elyse/Thor doesn't feel like SvS for sure. Haven't thought much about Shadow/Karnos but I can't really see it. Thoughts?

karnos

, srs question: you

are

an ISTP right...? like i remember you took the quiz last game but does that personality type suit you in your opinion? this is a very important question in judging your alignment.

He got lynched day 1 in that game though as mafia so he would want to change his playstyle?

[Shadow_step]

Ok, I'm the 2shot vig. I shot at Shadow night 1. I had asked the mod if he got my night action just to make sure. I thought the he was doc'd or a self protective like a bulletproof. I wanted to get him locked into a claim but I didn't want to reveal why on d1 until I could atleast get one shot off. I had also wondered if I was blocked.

If Giga is right about Thor not bussing as scum then its maybe prob a Karnos/Shadow team.

I think you were rbed, or scum doc decided to protect me to fk town doc.

[Shadow_step]

Like I said earlier scum RB with X shots is a possibility because otherwise this game is too townsided IMO. Scum have no protection against a gunsmith getting a guilty on them and a tracker following the maf member to the kill. Esp with ascetic claiming on day 1 itself. It removed all the negative utility of the ascetic.

[Shadow_step]

Like I said earlier scum RB with X shots is a possibility because otherwise this game is too townsided IMO. Scum have no protection against a gunsmith getting a guilty on them and a tracker following the maf member to the kill. Esp with ascetic claiming on day 1 itself. It removed all the negative utility of the ascetic.

[Shadow_step]

Pffft ignore the double post

[Shadow_step]

In before NC is SK lol
Maybe not seeing Gerry was such tasty lynchbait you wouldn't need to kill him.

[Shadow_step]

A town with so much investigative power, scum given doc just to fakeclaim is never going to work.

[Shadow_step]

VOTE: Shadow_Step

i guess my set-up spec sucked in the end... tbh i think he's more likely flipping goon/encryptor than vanilla cop, but he could viably be one so idk. There's practically a guilty on him which is good enough for me.

but yeah i can't see an issue with this lynch regardless of the flip. let's not quickhammer though because we need a decent plan for tomorrow in case it's MYLO.

This is dumb, why don't you think NC was blocked?
And why would I keep town clearing people if I'm scum?

[Shadow_step]

Why would it be scum sided. What protection do both the scum have leaving scum doc out against tracker or gunsmith ?

[Shadow_step]

you HAVE to give results.

Elyse was the only claimed VT so "investigating" her was safe

Without my kinda guilty, Kranksa wouldn't want to lynch you. Taking her to lylo is a good idea.

Who is scum if you are town and I'm confirmed town?

Uhh what? She was the first one to vote me into day 3.

And no I don't have to give results. I was sreading JJ, I could have easily said I investigated him.

[Shadow_step]

That's beside the point, I didn't need to town clear Kraska

[Shadow_step]

Who do I vig tonight, Karnos?

You just said you were two shot wtf?

[Shadow_step]

Just brilliant, you are lying to get me lynched, you know what's gonna happen after I flip town? Town's gonna mislynch you dumbass.
NC probably holstered n1 and he's just being cocky about me being scum.

[Shadow_step]

Who is scum if you are town and I'm confirmed town?

I already said at the beginning of the day that it was one of Thor or you and karnos

So its Thor/karnos

[Shadow_step]

So now I'm lying? That was a quick change of heart

Yeah youve been on this site since 09, don't tell me your shot would actually get refunded since others ehp have joined late know that that's not normal. You obviously holsteredn1 and this is a stupid gambit.

[Shadow_step]

Ebwop

So now I'm lying? That was a quick change of heart

Yeah youve been on this site since 09, don't tell me you thought your shot would actually get refunded since others who have joined late know that that's not normal. You obviously holstered n1 and this is a stupid gambit.

[Shadow_step]

lol nope

I even crumbed on day 1 in case I died

Seeing what Maria/transcend did I'm not discounting this at all.

[Shadow_step]

i mean

in Open 649 i was specifically told that if my 1-shot vig shot didn't go through it wouldn't be refunded as per normal guidelines.

i assumed you were asking karnos for some other reason but if it was serious... :/

also shadow no one is ever going to lynch nero... this isn't the kind of guilty you line up the lynches of

Wrt to last part, I have zero faith in any town after 649.

[Shadow_step]

Giga, who are you going to lynch after I flip town?

[Shadow_step]

Giga, who are you going to lynch after I flip town?

Karnos.

Because then I'd think it's Karnos/Thor because Elyse/Thor or Elyse/Karnos are very unlikely.

What about Michel? Why can't he be scum? And why is Elyse/Karnos unlikely?
You want to lynch me on the basis of an assumption when we should be lynching scum, are you seriously that dumb?

[Shadow_step]

I am pretty sure that the only way Nero shoots you and fails is for a buddy to protect you. So, I'm pretty sure you're scum.

Or he was roleblocked or there is a scum JK who targetted him or he is lying about targetting me because he is just cocky.

Who do I vig tonight, Karnos?

[Shadow_step]

scum jk makes as much sense as scum rb, both have guns and can all be caught via gunsmith

but they CAN block and there are enough false negatives because of me and NC.

[Shadow_step]

Also Jks don't have a gun :/
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Doctor

[Shadow_step]

ebwop

scum jk makes as much sense as scum rb, both have guns and can all be caught via gunsmith

but they CAN block and there are enough false

negatives

positives because of me and NC.

[Shadow_step]

@Shadow, check the page for gunsmith. Only docs and traitors lack guns.

Jailkeeper is a doc variant only ffs, why are you being thick. Check paranoid doc

[Shadow_step]

I read that as "who do I vig tonight, do i vig karnos?" not as in him asking me my opinion.

But obviously if we lynch shadow, vig giga.

That's obviously what he meant, but that is what you got from that like WTF

NC claimed to be 2 shot vig and he is asking whether he should vig you N3.

[Shadow_step]

paranoid doctors =/= jailkeepers

the former is told they're a normal doctor and is bastard, latter is considered a different role

It is the same fucking role just with a different name because it is not bastard, no where does it say that they have guns. When you click on the link which says "Doctors" it contains this JK role which cannot be caught by gunsmith.

[Shadow_step]

If not, then why did you quote it like that at the bottom of a post without responding to the quote?

I have already said what I think about it, how about you read the bloody thread!!

Just brilliant, you are lying to get me lynched, you know what's gonna happen after I flip town? Town's gonna mislynch you dumbass.
NC probably holstered n1 and he's just being cocky about me being scum.

Ebwop

So now I'm lying? That was a quick change of heart

Yeah youve been on this site since 09, don't tell me you thought your shot would actually get refunded since others who have joined late know that that's not normal. You obviously holstered n1 and this is a stupid gambit.

[Shadow_step]

Then what should my reaction be, "Holy shit, you are lying scum??"

[Shadow_step]

OMG you gotta be fucking kidding me, so you think if your shot failed because of a doc you will be refunded it?

[Shadow_step]

Playing with a noob is better than this. Seriously this is beyond dumb.

[Shadow_step]

buzz off, liar. You better dig yourself a hole to hide yourself in after my flip.

[Shadow_step]

Yes, at least that would make more sense.

I was referring to this as a lie.

Also because town lie all the time to get who they are scum reading, lynched.
It's not something unheard of.

[Shadow_step]

I never said I was targetted duh, I said he was targetted. You have fallen in the tunnel so much that you are twisting facts

[Shadow_step]

Shots are never refunded no matter how they are lost ^^

[Shadow_step]

but if ure jailed its like u never actioned at all

Yeah in a perfect world xD

[Shadow_step]

Okay let's just consider this for a second.
IF nero shot me and I was protected by scum doc, it means I am scum.

Consider this

6) A mafia member can only carry out his faction kill, or his individual ability, but not both.

If the scum doc protected me N1, he would protect me N2 as well.
Which means I did the kill, but only I didn't! I investigated Kraska.

[Shadow_step]

Yeah I'm scum and the mod told me that Kraska and Elyse are VT and I can use that to fakeclaim Vanilla cop

[Shadow_step]

@Shadow "If the scum doc protected me N1, he would protect me N2 as well."

That is some pretty shallow logic.

Doc can't self protect, you seriously expect me to be scum and my scum buddy to not protect me when I'm one of the most suspicious players with a chance of vig/sk. Like seriously?

[Shadow_step]

Elyse claimed vt.

Yes and Maria claimed to be a mason, what is your point?

[Shadow_step]

Plus there are numerous possibilities where he *couldn't* protect you last night.

Would be a pretty useless doc when one scum gets lynched then, would be pointless.

[Shadow_step]

Doc is already pointless after day 2, since the vig is out of shots. Your logic is terrible.

Oh please

[Shadow_step]

Gut still thinks that he's scum a scum investigation role that "investigated" Elyse b/c she was like the only claimed VT to be safe and then maybe fake confirmed his buddy Kranska.

Why the fuck am I wasting an investigation on a claimed VT?

[Shadow_step]

@Nero https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

[Shadow_step]

Nearly guilty?
You crazy or what?
It was mechanically impossible for me to do the kill last night ffs.

[Shadow_step]

Sometimes I tend to overthink things, both JarJar and IaI had scumreads on both Shadow and Karnos so they make the most make the most sense as kills, I guess.

And I decide to keep you alive over IAI? Hells naw

[Shadow_step]

Vote: Shadow_step

With Nero claiming to have shot shadow night 1, I see four possibilities:

• Nero is lying (either about being vig or about shooting shadow)
  
• some other townie prevented the kill and is lying about it
  
• scum blocked nero from killing
  
• scum protected shadow

Given the discussion we had about the fake mason claims, and the fact that this massclaim was done at least partially with the purpose of finding out if and who the vig targeted night 1, I think we can safely dismiss the first two. If town is lying and we mislynch because of it, we deserve the loss.

So either scum blocked nero, or shadow was protected. Out of those two, a protect on shadow is far more likely. A mafia doc goes perfectly into a setup with a tracker (who tracks the protections), gunsmith (doc does not have a gun and therefore functions as a godfather) and vig (mafia doc stops the vig kills). Compared to that, some form of roleblocker would be a very blunt instrument.

And if shadow indeed was protected, he's (almost) certainly mafia.

I've read the first 20 pages during my reread, continuing reading now.

"almost certainly" wtf is this shit.
Why aren't you keeping an opening mind? Why the fuck can't there be a RB or a JK who blocked NC.
Stupid Nero has made it so easy for scum to jump on my wagon, it's ridiculous.

[Shadow_step]

IaI was universally town read where I wasn't plus Titus thinks she's able to fool me.

Why was IAI "universally" townread and you weren't, in your opinion ?
IAI was pushing for my Lynch and nobody was listening to him. You have more influence over the town. It makes no sense to keep you alive over him.

[Shadow_step]

If I was scum, we would know that there is either an SK/vig in the game. My "buddy" would be protecting me.

[Shadow_step]

ok wait

if shadow is town, then town has 3 clears, right? As in Nero, Elyse, and Kraska, because it's unlikely that the scumteam composition is Goon/Goon/Roleblocker, and scum vigs are bastard (Nero is unlikely a serial killer because of his choice in kills). If Shadow is town, it's probably Goon/1-Shot RB (maybe more? rb is pretty powerful so idk)/Doctor, which means that Elyse and Kraska are both town.

I know for a fact I'm town, so we'll most likely come into MYLO with 3 clears fmpov if shadow is a mislynch. That's not TOO bad, right?

Sorry I did not get the chance to talk about my Kraska or Michel reads. I will put that on my to-do list today.

Why do you want to take these risks when we can lynch scum today?

[Shadow_step]

Why are you putting yourself in my pool?

[Shadow_step]

Yeah, but I've already said it's most likely karnos/thor, blitz being scum with you doesn't make a lot of sense. There is no way you are getting lynched before Karnos.

[Shadow_step]

Yeah, but I've already said it's most likely karnos/thor, blitz being scum with you doesn't make a lot of sense. There is no way you are getting lynched before Karnos.

lemme ask more directly then:

What do you think is Michel? Besides PoE town, of course.

Not sure tbh, he seems detached and uninterested in the game. I'm used to people who play like this when they get VT.

[Shadow_step]

I could see Thor being shadow's partner, seems like a more lurky Thor than usual, and he made some weird comments about keeping shadow alive that I find very scummy, because logically scum would just night kill shadow if we were keeping him alive to investigate people.

Nero, if you want to vig me tonight that is cool. My flip will add some weight to my reads, and I do not want there to be any chance of idiot town trying to lynch me tomorrow instead of the last scum.

(distancing)

[Shadow_step]

Could you dodge more questions ?^

[Shadow_step]

What did I dodge?

IaI was universally town read where I wasn't plus Titus thinks she's able to fool me.

Why was IAI "universally" townread and you weren't, in your opinion ?
IAI was pushing for my Lynch and nobody was listening to him. You have more influence over the town. It makes no sense to keep you alive over him.

[Shadow_step]

Who was scumreading IaI? I'm p sure you were the leading wagon up to Maria getting mislynched. I'm p sure that you, Kranos and Michel were all scum reading me d1.

AI also dispute this "influence" claim. Like I told you fuckers Maria was just noise but no one listened to me.

You are conveniently changing what you said, not being scum read does not equal being universally townread.
I was not around when the Maria lynched happened(?)
Also I don't think I was scum reading you day 1.

[Shadow_step]

I'm not sure how you can think that IaI not being scumread=//=universly read as not scum=town.

cause there is thing called fucking null?

[Shadow_step]

Yeah @CFJ I thought the game was town sided. We needed blocking power, V cop was useless.

[Shadow_step]

@shadow: vanilla cop was only useless because you were awesome with your nighttargets. If we had killed thor as I suggested night 1, we would have needed your investigations to find those investigative roles ASAP.

@chilledtea: any chance of the review/mod topic? I'm quite interested to see that discussion as well.

Thanks man <3
Also well played, sweet win. Huge town block forming at the end of day 1 and strengthening on day 2. Winning this was becoming a very uphill task. Plus like I said in the dead QT, all the better player got all the town PRs so we were kinda fucked lol.

[Shadow_step]

Also, okay with releasing the maf QT. We didn't have day talk so nothing much in there.

@NC I suggested we keep, keeping you alive as I thought you would re evaluate your reads. But that didn't happen cause you had a guilty on me xDD

[Shadow_step]

Also, doesanyone knows how to apply to become a setup reviewer? I'd like to do that.

[Shadow_step]

Lol at shadow bitching about balance in dead thread when scum got two useful PRs while town PRs were all shitty and countered by scum power. Scum sided setup by ms standards.

?? Town PRs weren't useless at all. Tracker+gunsmith+BG+vig

Any guilty the gunsmith got would be mafia because the Vig could self clear. Almost as good as cop.

[Shadow_step]

fushehdufjen

wp michel, really sorry elyse : (

also ftr @mhsmith I think NOT using your bodyguard was the optimal play. even though Nero was conf!town, the information we would have gotten from the kill after Nero would have been useful. plus we might have needed your town skillz to win

Mh didn't think it was Mich either so nah not really.

[Shadow_step]

We couldn't do our NA and NK at the same time. So the 2 false inno for tracker isn't a thing.

I'd still say Vcop is useless. Knowing if a person is a PR or not only to kill them on the next night. How does that help meh.

[Shadow_step]

Also, doesanyone knows how to apply to become a setup reviewer? I'd like to do that.

Easiest way to start is in reviewing closed games in queues with lower review requirements (Mini Theme, Micro Theme); that's how I started. If a mod's looking for a review for a closed game, they ask for help in this thread. (Note that the OP is slightly outdated; normally the reviewers PM the mod and the mod creates a PT for the review, although the process can vary by mod.)

For queues with a higher review standard (Large Theme, Normal), you need some amount of review experience already and (in the case of Large Themes) to have run a Large Theme yourself. Applying to the Normal Review group is done via PMing the Normal list mod (although they may well PM you first once you've built up a reputation as a reviewer).

For Open setup reviews, see this forum. You can just drop in on someone else's setup and post a review. Because there's no reason for Open reviews to be done in secret, it's a good place to see how reviewing works. However, reviews there tend to be more sporadic and less thorough than in other queues, for some reason.

Thanks ! I'll review some mini themed games for experience.

[Shadow_step]

Although honestly, tracker/gunsmith can both out the vig, and v cop can do so for scum, and doc can stop vig shot, and bg (if crappy) can accidentally save scum. Basically every power other than ascetic was set up to be anti-vig; at that point a full jk is better than vig conceptually, and even more so than a 2-shot vig.

Okay we are going to imagine worst case scenarios then. Gunsmith checks maf VC. Tracker tracks goon doing the kill. Vig shoots maf doc.
Scum sided ? Hell no

[Shadow_step]

Kraska you came through for me <3 xD