Mini 1853: Trial of the Evoker [Game Over]

[pisskop]

Well, I do think we should talk about each other, but I really, really dont feel the need for a 2week day today.

P:

Thats a fair point. We need AJs reads on the game, but we also need everyone to pick a side of NOS/DUNN

[Fire Assassin]

It seems so weird to me to go into RVS pick up a post and call them scum immediately and say anyone is scum with them and say it with such certainty.
How about a case tomorrow, they aren't getting lynched. They also might not even be here tomorrow.

[drealmerz7]

totally with FA here

[Not Chara]

Aj feels town, especially with his approach.

but besides that, i'm trying to figure out what town utility beyond trolling iron was going for with his reflection claim. it just seems a way to avoid being targeted by anyone. and i'd think town would

want

to be targeted.

[Fire Assassin]

there is no town utility for fake claiming that.

[Fire Assassin]

It was anti town at best because he was trying not to be targeted.
I don't see what use town would have saying that beyond having a redirector that they use say on pisskop.

Which seems more plausible at the moment than when i first thought of it.

[drealmerz7]

aj could be lying

or perhaps cast before he took over, but then he'd have access to that info

[Aj The Epic]

I'd prefer you get rid of the double watcher scenario first.

Then provide thoughts on which one is scum and town?

Yeah uhm let me download the few gigabytes of information in this thread straight to my brain and give you an analysis an hour after switching in.

there is no town utility for fake claiming that.

Well there is, and that's to collect roles. This slot has one amendment to it from normal and that's that we're non-compulsive. Going by his actions, this was exactly what he aimed for as he didn't take action last night anyways.

[Fire Assassin]

Yeah uhm let me download the few gigabytes of information in this thread straight to my brain and give you an analysis an hour after switching in.

I think its really weird, you jump in and say Batoru is scum for stuff in RVS (very limited info there), then when I ask you some thoughts on two different players. You say "theres so much information I can't just GIVE IT TO YOU NOW"

You just proved you can make a read from little.
Why do you need to process everything from these two now?

Also, no rush. I just thought since you were very opinionated very early you formed reads pretty fast with very little info. Because thats what it appeared like to me.

[BATORU]

Anyway, Tama does have some experience with forum mafia, but not a lot. Off the top of my head, two newbies, a mini normal, and a mini theme. I don't really know what you expect from inexperience, but I stopped worrying about lolhammers after my first newbie, and even then I think I was only anxious about it when people actually reached a danger zone. L-5 is nowhere near it.

That's my point, she DID worry about it.

Don't know what NAI is. I was more concerned about the associates of your slot because the order of business today isn't you but two people in a situation where at least one is lying about a night action. That's a scenario where you don't worry about lynching anyone else specifically because you know you have a minimum 50% chance to lynch scum.

Also remember that on my read-through, I DO get bonus information. I know two flipped townies and can use that. Not using that information for how others associate with the slot is a bad idea. Yes I'm going to use associative tells. This game is about interacting and naturally not doing so is just inefficient.

P-edit: Yeah there's really no need for a hidden intention here. I'm not interested in dying before a situation where a scum is guaranteed to be in 1 of 2 slots.

What? She worried about it in context of Dunnstral claiming a curse that made him hated, not about the actual hop on the wagon. She was saying whoever had the curse should claim so we don't think we're putting someone at L-1 when we're actually hammering. That had nothing to do with the Sondam wagon.

The problem isn't you using associate tells with the other flipped slots. It's you using associate tells with slots that

haven't flipped

because apparently you think we're scum because Tama lacks confidence? What you're positing is absolutely ridiculous and it feels like you're just trying to swing things so that you don't have to lynch your buddy today because "well this person looked worse with BATORU who I scumread off that one RVS post". Then when they flip town, because we're town, you don't even need to re-evaluate on us because that was the "original" scumread. Like, atm to me it looks like you're trying to push back the lynch of a buddy by a day to secure a ML on town by drawing associates with us that you can keep your hands clean from later. Am I going crazy here?

~Ruko

[Not Chara]

'collect roles'? that claim has the effect of making no one want to target him. a bad way to collect roles. unless i'm misunderstanding your meaning.

has everyone posted today? i think we're still missing the recipient of Gamma's 'ping'.

[Fire Assassin]

Well there is, and that's to collect roles. This slot has one amendment to it from normal and that's that we're non-compulsive. Going by his actions, this was exactly what he aimed for as he didn't take action last night anyways.

I am confused, how did you ability give roles?
Also collecting role info isn't exactly town utility, at best not alignment indicative.

[Fire Assassin]

'collect roles'? that claim has the effect of making no one want to target him. a bad way to collect roles. unless i'm misunderstanding your meaning.

has everyone posted today? i think we're still missing the recipient of Gamma's 'ping'.

This also.

[drealmerz7]

flavor-collector!

[BATORU]

I'd prefer you get rid of the double watcher scenario first.

ooof

if you're scum, nice casual response, but still scummy response!

also finding your angling of batoru into the nos/dunn situation rather scummy

Also, didn't you think we were scum? Why do you find him using a scumread on us to read the cc's scummy in that case?

~Ruko

[Not Chara]

Fire: i think you're wrong about Nosferatu. for one, saying that he's less likely scum because he doesn't look similar to

one

scumgame.. the sample size is just too small for reliable meta. people play differently for a variety of reasons. alignment is one of them, but timing, mood, the 'feel' of the game, etc.... there are two many other factors for a confident judgement. Nos's reaction to me wasn't towny, it was just emotional. players don't have to be faking emotion to be scum, if you really think Nos wouldn't be able to fake it. it just felt he was more concerned with dismissing accusations than reading anyone. saying it was stupid for anyone to think he was scum, when mechanically he and Dunn were both equally likely to be scum. and his forced humour at the accusations when it was obvious he was angry.

[pisskop]

Collect roles?

why? thats kind of scummy.

[drealmerz7]

@BAT - hmmm no I don't think I thought you're scum

I think I've said at a couple points ways I see that you could be, but, it's residual/associative and minor stuff

I have you more likely town, but regardless of that, I remain open, and so if I was SRing you, I could still find what AJ did with you scummy, knowing I could be wrong about my SR on you and remaining open to other possibilities, if that is a way to read what AJ did, I'm not going to discount it as possible

[Fire Assassin]

Fire: i think you're wrong about Nosferatu. for one, saying that he's less likely scum because he doesn't look similar to

one

scumgame.. the sample size is just too small for reliable meta. people play differently for a variety of reasons. alignment is one of them, but timing, mood, the 'feel' of the game, etc.... there are two many other factors for a confident judgement. Nos's reaction to me wasn't towny, it was just emotional. players don't have to be faking emotion to be scum, if you really think Nos wouldn't be able to fake it. it just felt he was more concerned with dismissing accusations than reading anyone. saying it was stupid for anyone to think he was scum, when mechanically he and Dunn were both equally likely to be scum. and his forced humour at the accusations when it was obvious he was angry.

More concerned with dismissing accusations? How is that scummy?
he acted in a way town players act when pushed.

Someone pushes you, who you know is town you push back heavily call them bad/stupid/etc. Thats what Nos did.
Which one is more trying to read people in this scenario?
Neither!

Nosferatu is calling people bad and stupid and acting out.
Dunnstral is calling people scum who don't believe him.

What is the forced humor you are talking about?

[drealmerz7]

but to remain clear, my primary view of the situation is that what AJ did there was really scummy

it took focus hugely off of the dunn/nos more as I see it

lining up lynches, as pissk put it

[Not Chara]

What is the forced humor you are talking about?

um. really?

[Fire Assassin]

What is the forced humor you are talking about?

um. really?

Chara, we haven't seen much eye to eye this game.
Much of it is i can't see your point of view that well. Hell that probably is why I have been thinking your scum off and on for last 40 some pages.

So please point out what is obvious to you that I am missing.

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah uhm let me download the few gigabytes of information in this thread straight to my brain and give you an analysis an hour after switching in.

I think its really weird, you jump in and say Batoru is scum for stuff in RVS (very limited info there), then when I ask you some thoughts on two different players. You say "theres so much information I can't just GIVE IT TO YOU NOW"

You just proved you can make a read from little.
Why do you need to process everything from these two now?

Also, no rush. I just thought since you were very opinionated very early you formed reads pretty fast with very little info. Because thats what it appeared like to me.

Yes but one of the two people in question didn't show up much in the early game. I read into RVS more than most simply because it's the most awkward post in the game for scum. No strategy played out, little information, and the ability for anyone to run up a wagon on you at random makes it a tedious part for scum.

What? She worried about it in context of Dunnstral claiming a curse that made him hated, not about the actual hop on the wagon. She was saying whoever had the curse should claim so we don't think we're putting someone at L-1 when we're actually hammering. That had nothing to do with the Sondam wagon.

The problem isn't you using associate tells with the other flipped slots. It's you using associate tells with slots that

haven't flipped

because apparently you think we're scum because Tama lacks confidence? What you're positing is absolutely ridiculous and it feels like you're just trying to swing things so that you don't have to lynch your buddy today because "well this person looked worse with BATORU who I scumread off that one RVS post". Then when they flip town, because we're town, you don't even need to re-evaluate on us because that was the "original" scumread. Like, atm to me it looks like you're trying to push back the lynch of a buddy by a day to secure a ML on town by drawing associates with us that you can keep your hands clean from later. Am I going crazy here?

~Ruko

Alright, I read it too fast and see that it was about who he gave the ability to, not Sondam's wagon. It was the same line so I assumed it was questioning THAT WAGON's potential hammer vote.

"Lynch my buddy today". Alright. First issue, I've not read the thread. Unless you assume daytalk and us having discussed SPECIFICALLY that one person has kissed up to you more than the other, you're really grasping at straws. Secondly, I've given no push either way on it. In that case, you'd expect SOME action, regardless of WIFOM or not. Bus the buddy, give a read of town on them? Inaction normally doesn't befit scum bussing scum. There's always something to be done. Instead I'm just reading, and haven't given anything towards it.

Your entire basis holds no water unless there's some major amounts of communication happening really early on to my posting. And notice, neither one in question for the lynch would be on to fill me in?

8585590#p8585590]post 1810[/url], Not Chara"]'collect roles'? that claim has the effect of making no one want to target him. a bad way to collect roles. unless i'm misunderstanding your meaning.

has everyone posted today? i think we're still missing the recipient of Gamma's 'ping'.[/quote]

The way he worded it suggested that a NK would be deflected back, along with any other roles. It's a pseudo BP from the start. Secondly, anyone wondering about the legitimacy would poke at it with a non-vig (which most likely doesn't exist given what was said D1) role. Because the slot is non-compulsive, he could effectively hoard roles.

[BATORU]

@Fire what game is the scum game with Nos you were talking about?

~Ruko

[Not Chara]

not chara
ya got me
I don't actually have a guilty on dunn.

the person I actually have a guilty on, is james earl jones.

*gasp* JAMES EARL JONES?!?!?!
you might know him as the blind guy from sandlot, or darth vader's voice from star wars; but he is actually a ruthless killer and has murdered our fellow townie beeboy!

I tried to be ambiguous to not shock the town, but your raw analytical prowess has defeated me.

Your affinity for deep cognition has defeated my attempts at obfuscating the truth, and for that you should be commended.

if I thought dunn could be town why am I VOTING HIM WHAT THE FUCK
honestly stop posting while you're high holy shit

pedit: I'm literally weezing

Nos is pulling the 'haha, you're so stupid, i can't believe you'd think this' performance, but it doesn't feel like he's really laughing.