Newbie 1769: Happy New Year! (Post-Game)

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Cassielle

Schadd is town, TB might be scum but there's better votes for today.

[RadiantCowbells]

Actually I wouldn't mind a TB lynch tbh.

[RadiantCowbells]

I want Creature or Cassielle. I can settle for TB but the only reason I really want him is because it feels like scum don't want his lynch.

[RadiantCowbells]

TB, if you do not unvote Schadd in the next 24 hours I am going to hammer you.

Schadd is town and obviously so.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like I don't care who is town and who is scum at this point I will powerlynch anyone who does not unvote Schadd in their next post.

[RadiantCowbells]

TB, if you do not unvote Schadd in the next 24 hours I am going to hammer you.

Schadd is town and obviously so.

TB, doesn't know how to defend himself so he's just trying to push the mislynch on Schadd instead.

That leaves two town voting Schadd.

[RadiantCowbells]

Town: Rask, Schadd
Townlean: MattBlack
Null: Grey
Scummy: ThinkBig, GigabyteTroubadour
Scummier: Creature
Scumlord: Cassielle

[RadiantCowbells]

EBWOP oh wait i dont have a vote out wtf

VOTE: schadd_ i hate not having a vote out

Are you fucking kidding me?

[RadiantCowbells]

Thinks TB is obvscum, plays inconsistently, selfvotes when called out on inconsistency, and then votes the counterwagon to 75-90% scum.

right.

[RadiantCowbells]

Creature is probably not partnered with Cassielle.

[RadiantCowbells]

Grey is town but holy shit your reads man.

[RadiantCowbells]

GREY WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU VOTING SCHADD FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST YOU SPENT THE ENTIRE DAY CALLING OUT SCUM CASS WHY ARE YOU VOTING SCHADD

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: ThinkBig

If this isn't scum it's Cass/Gigabyte. I'm not risking Schadd getting hammered and me getting nightkilled.

[RadiantCowbells]

I can help you bus.

VOTE: Cassielle

[RadiantCowbells]

Rask, you're targetting me and no one else tonight.

[RadiantCowbells]

I am going to post Castiel pictures until Cass gets lynched.

[RadiantCowbells]

[RadiantCowbells]

[RadiantCowbells]

It was good in the first 5 seasons but went downhill after that.

[RadiantCowbells]

Spoiler: Kinda NSFW

[RadiantCowbells]

If there's a counterclaim to GBT they should claim now.

UNVOTE:

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean you could call it that but GBT is just a scumlord anyway.

[RadiantCowbells]

Because Cass is 100% scum whereas GBT is like 85% scum.

The question you should be asking is why GBT voted Cass when she thinks that scum is both of us and I already had a vote on me.

[RadiantCowbells]

What if scum didn't shoot Raskol but instead shot their PR read and they were 1-Shot BP?
Then GBT would be free to bus without worrying about a confirmed clear, and I'm pretty sure she would expect to be able to win the 1v1 citing my bussing meta and probably not get lynched after me.

My issue rn is that I don't see why scum Gigabyte busses in this situation rather than search out the PR if they targeted Raskol like they should have.

[RadiantCowbells]

GBT is like 85% scum.

And what is the remaining 15% ?

Creature > Grey > MattBlack.

[RadiantCowbells]

OK, so if you agree the optimal play is to shoot raskol is, then what the fuck is 921?

there was no shot of you getting nk'd, i don't think anyone on the TB wagon would have hammered schadd_, so???

it was a really fucking pointless hammer and when i saw it i assumed your next step would be to hardbus cassie, chain an easy ml on me, and then get a pretty easy 3-way

I thought ThinkBig was reasonably likely to be scum and I didn't want to risk you switching over.
I wouldn't have been surprised if I had been shot but I am pretty fucking sure that no doc would have saved me over Raskol.

You feel awfully rolefishy today.

I am trying to solve the game and solving the game means figuring out what scum and PRs did last night.
If GBT is PR they should claim because otherwise I'm lynching them today. Everyone else can stay quiet.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: GBT

That's one.

[RadiantCowbells]

i townread schadd_ but ok

After the bullshit I've seen I wouldn't be surprised if you got away with it anyway. Especially in a town where people managed to get 4 votes onto Schad ????

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Cassielle

Ehh I think that GBT is still more likely to be town than Cass. If Raskol dies tonight I'll reevaluate but I don't think that Cass/GBT are scumbuddies atm.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think that Cass/GBT are scumbuddies atm.

Really?

GBT flying in and bussing while picking a fight with me is a dead end play if you are going to survive today.
Either she will end up confirmed scum or have to convince me to not powerlynch her when I'm already pissy about it.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think it's really out of character for Grey to push Cass as hard as they did yesterday and to accept a compromise wagon.

[RadiantCowbells]

GBT + something other than Cass sort of makes sense.

GBT's creature read feels blown way out of proportion and their play is scummy as shit in general but it would require Cassielle to be town which is a pretty big stretch.

[RadiantCowbells]

It wouldn't be shadd though. Creature would make a ton of sense as a scumpartner if they decided from the get go to hard townread each other and spew bullshit as to the reason.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you think that Grey's scum his obvious scumpartner is Cassielle so just lynch her first.

[RadiantCowbells]

In a world where Cass is town I feel like this is a loss anyway with town's reads as they are so I'd rather we just lynch her.

[RadiantCowbells]

This is a newbie and I'm not going to risk alienating people to try to win and ruin the game like my last one.
My slot is town, you're scumreading me for a hammer that I would never have made as scum. It literally serves no purpose.
I play to endgame as scum because I am a good scum player. That hammer got me heavily scumread for no benefit.
I ask: why do you think that Scum!RC decided to stick his neck out for a pointless quickhammer on dueling 4/4 wagons?

If I really wanted to just end the day as scum I would have replaced in said bye felicia and complained the next day that my reads are shit so far.
My predecessor was townread and everyone in this game besides Raskol who I have played with has proven they are shit at reading me.
Lay off.

[RadiantCowbells]

Or we could lynch Cass who could be scum with boatloads more people.

[RadiantCowbells]

Sure, I will explain.

Question: Do you think that scum!RC would be completely unable to come up with a reason to scumread cass?

[RadiantCowbells]

Anyway.

Cass literally IIOAs more than she actually posts content. she spends half the game on tangents about what people do and/or should be doing.
And yeah, some people like myself and Mastin do this constantly as town, but there's a massive difference between me arguing optimal play and Cass sitting there going NOOBSCUM DO X Y Z without pointing to anyone in the game with it. 12 is the worst example.

id say give him a chance to wiggle out

This really doesn't come from a town thought process. Like, REALLY doesn't come from a town thought process.

Massive posturing in shit like

explain that out of thin air l-1 crap pls? yeah sur eit was really l-2, but you didnt know that so wtf? explain yourself, what on earth was the point of it, why did you do it? why did you expect tb to be a good candidate for that kind of pressure even???

Does this look like someone who is looking for scum or someone who wants to make Rask look scummy?

gbT gets 5th TR and still has really low standards for scum? bs. i dont buy that for a minute. even if two slots are lurky youre gonna get a bit on the paranoid side about folks and this is literally just gbT jumping up and down on TB because SURE LETS DENY TOWN A DISCUSSION POINT AND SOURCE OF INFO WHY NOT. two answers and he shuts it down without even fully buying into his own reasoning and trying to get the hamster to pull that wagon into town, gtfo of here with that.

Someone trying to scumhunt or someone trying to exaggerate cases?

WTF is town doing trying to keep people from putting info out? scum knows all, town is not omniscient. scum has a vested interest in shutting down info-generating discussion, town DOES NOT. it also is sorta bad for the noobs -- they dont have an opportunity to say where they are curious about things without actively putting themselves out front role wise or etc. thats a pro-scum attitude, if not precisely anti-town.

Again: there's no scumhunting in her ISO. Just her grandstanding about how everything everyone does is insanely scummy. At no point do I get the impression reading her posts that she is actually trying to solve the game, just feels like she wants to make people look scummy.

Also the maintained Raskol scumread I think is because she's scared that she'll look inconsistent when she switches.
Do I need to go on?

[RadiantCowbells]

Like, think of it this way. Are Cassielle's posts coming from someone who is exploring the game, or from someone who wants to make the other players think a certain way about things?

[RadiantCowbells]

Like her 'theorycrafting' doesn't even line up with her actions in game. And town can be awful hypocrites but it's so glaring and gross here.
Especially with all her 'scumhunting' just being OMG DID YOU SEE HOW THIS GUY DID THAT SCUMMY THING LIKE HOLY FUCK SO SCUMMY.

[RadiantCowbells]

Why are two of your super townreads my second and third biggest scumread?
Neither Giga nor Creature's play has justified any sort of townread on them and I'm leaning pretty heavily that scum is Cass/Creature right now anyway.
I'm starting to get a sinking feeling that Cass is town and I replaced into a scum sweep.

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright big guns here.

VOTE: Creature

I don't think that we win after a cass lynch even if she's scum. I did some digging and it would be insanely uncharacteristic of Grey to replace in and hard bus a scumbuddy.
I am 100% positive that Schadd is town here and I have only once been wrong on a townread of this nature and it was on someone who basically stalked my mafia play for months to understand how to beat me. Raskol is confirmed. Mattblack is probably town.
Someone who is heavily townread is scum and they are who we need to lynch today.

[RadiantCowbells]

If we lynch Cass, Cass flips scum, and I get confirmed as town via track, are you guys willing to sheep my vote tomorrow? Because otherwise I don't want to vote Cass today.

[RadiantCowbells]

I really don't care about other people's assessments of other people's meta, especially when they might be scumpartners.
If I were to link every game where someone was 100% SURE SOMEONE WAS TOWN CUZ FRIENDS AND META and they were dead wrong and after game it's like WELP I FUCKED THAT UP SRY then the same shit happens game after game.
I do not townread Creature and I am not going to write them off as town because you say that they are town.

@Raskolnikov Grey is an alt with someone who I have experience with and I don't want to go into any more detail on the subject.

[RadiantCowbells]

As for Schadd, he is obviously attempting to solve the game in a large number of posts. His read progression and play aligns near exactly. I do not see that from anyone else, including Matt.

Post by gigabyteTroubadour » less than a minute ago

there's a difference between saying "guys trust my read" and "tell me where i'm wrong" though

there's no point in telling someone to trust my read because that doesn't progress the gamestate at all

asking you to explain why your read is different actually does and is what i'm actually looking for

The answer to where you're wrong, assuming town, is that Creature knows exactly what you're looking for to townread him and did exactly that.

[RadiantCowbells]

Sorry Grey but I'm not a literal dumbfuck and it's really obvious.

[RadiantCowbells]

I have literally no desire to build cases atm. I will get back to this game.

[RadiantCowbells]

woah woah

why build a case if you aren't sure who the scum is?

That's why I have literally no desire to build cases.

[RadiantCowbells]

rc's hammer in 921 and me not really jiving with his logic when he explained it just gives me flashbacks to my newbie where he talked me out of pushing for a NL in a 6 player mylo with a claimed, un-shot BP because he was totally going to get nk'd and no one would listen to his reads (despite the fact that i was basically his and kraska's lapdog that game because i didn't really know how to alignment read that well) and i just kind of lapped it up

like i said i want to call bullshit on rc thinking that he could possibly be the N1 kill after you claimed making his hammer pointless when i needed more time (basically to make sure i wasn't like this during D2), which makes me think scum motivation

You have played 1 game with me before now. I complain about getting NKed as scum because I am literally permadead as town. If you are going to argue that I have a scum meta of using 'OH I MIGHT BE DEAD TONIGHT' to justify decisions that I 1) would have done the exact same thing as town and 2) did do as town, I will just vote you.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like if this game reaches 6 way I'm going to refuse to NL and so should you.

[RadiantCowbells]

-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could

it's totally real

seems about accurate.

[RadiantCowbells]

Idk I'm just not motivated to post anything because I don't really see the path to winning this game atm.

[RadiantCowbells]

Which is Creature because he's spent this entire game disengaging and deflecting and my lack of certainty on anyone else being scum heavily points to him being scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's also possible I'm just flat out wrong on a read somewhere and most of my null-nullscum pool is town.

I'm going to look at some scumteam possibilities and see if anything pops out.

I've thought about that, especially since it looks like he's trying to connect the two of us as a scumteam. If Grey's scum I'm positive it's between Creature/Cass.

[RadiantCowbells]

Gigabyte/Grey actually makes sense too.

[RadiantCowbells]

Cassielle / Grey
Cassielle / Creature +
Cassielle / MattBlack
Gigabyte / Creature ++
Gigabyte / Schadd +
Gigabyte / Grey
Creature / MattBlack ?

[RadiantCowbells]

Gigabyte/Grey actually makes sense too.

I'm getting tired of your shit.

VOTE: RC

Make a case or eat rope.

If you're town your play has been craptastic this game and you should feel bad about it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Why is the guy with an ego through the fucking roof self describing their play as craptastic?

[RadiantCowbells]

Okay then mr. shitty town I really don't care what you have to say and I don't particularly think that you're town so you can either shut the fuck up and vote somewhere else or I am going to lynch you today and if town loses because of it then it's no one's problem but yours.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like holy fuck how can 5 people in this game be town it literally blows my mind.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Grey fuck off you obtuse twit

[RadiantCowbells]

Towny: Rask
Townlean: Schadd, MattBlack
Nullscum: Grey, GigaByteTroubadour
Scummy: Cassielle, Creature

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Creature

This is still a better lynch.

[RadiantCowbells]

I am less confident in my reads in general so they are less polarized.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't have much to say about this game. I just want to see Creature lynched.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think that if we lynch Cass or Grey and they flip town the game is just over because there's no way I'm going to swing a lynch on Creature or GBT for the rest of this game.
Conversely, even if Creature is town then that narrows down the game hugely and makes this a lot easier.

My vote is not changing for the remainder of this day phase. If Creature were town and Grey or Cass were scum (or even if they weren't) you can bet scum would be piledriving this Creature wagon right now. Schadd is still my strongest townread and I don't see anyone besides Cass that could be scum looking foran easy jump onto the wagn. Conversely, half the game is avoiding the wagon without really talking about Creature or just writing them off as town and not engaging like GBT. Actually Grey picked a fight with me over jumping on Creature so if Grey's scum he's probably scum WITH Creature anyway. I don't want to pull any you should vote with me because RC bullshit but I really don't want to see any other lynches today.

[RadiantCowbells]

Literally if you are town if it weren't for me scum would have fucking pile driven you this game for free so shut the fuck up.

THERE IS ONLY ONE COUNTERWAGON TO YOUR LYNCH AND IT IS THE ONE I FUCKING STARTED.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Mattblackguy

Creature/Cass might still be scum but this is definitely scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Rask if I get lynched today will you lynch MBG then Creature?

[RadiantCowbells]

Because no one else is scum.

Why would he lynch me after you flip scum?

This quote is something I've seen a billion times from scum but I can't remember seeing it from town.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like something had to have triggered it and it feels to me like the most likely trigger is that he's scared that Creature is going to get lynched so he went all in.

[RadiantCowbells]

Or I could have literally done fucking anything besides what I did.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think he saw weakness in my slot with Grey having already voted me and Creature supporting the vote.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll get you mroe detail on schadd in 20 minutes.

[RadiantCowbells]

Or your mattblack townread just sucked which is what happened.

[RadiantCowbells]

ooh!

2. i like the people at dominion forum but part of the fun of mafia is making character judgments about people you don't know
3. thus far, i have been mafia twice and town once. at this point, i was happy to get town just because of that, but i also like town more because knowing everything is boring
4. i like target-investigative roles, the example here being tracker

UNVOTE: gigabyteTroubador, VOTE: ThinkBig

This was actually the biggest thing because the townclaim felt super genuine and not forced in.
His ThinkBig scumread was also the most dynamic and well explained of the people voting him and I found it super easy to figure out exactly what he was thinking throughout.

sure. claiming at L-1 on d1 is generally an accepted thing (i don't think anyone claimed before that in any of the three i played, except for v special occasions/being especially frustrated) and TB did that; he did it without reading, apparently, but also (implicitly) acknowledges in 150 that you generally need a reason to do it. this seems to me like he just decided ahead of time that he was gonna claim on L-2, which rings a bit scummy to me.

I think that Scum!Schadd in this situation would have jumped on the 'OMG CLAIM AT L-2' a lot harder but he took the time to try to look at the L-2 claim from TB's PoV and understand what he was thinking about that and that's not at all something that I would expect from newb!scum and is actually really good town play.
Like this entire post is about understanding TB's thought process which is super, super town.

Instead, why don't you tell me why Schadd is scum because I absolutely do not see it.

[RadiantCowbells]

If Creature wasn't the scumbuddy, who would you think that it would be?

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't recall a town slot in the last year ever being pretty sure that I was town.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't recall a town slot in the last year ever being pretty sure that I was town.

Where did that scummy come from then?

Smart play and assloads of emotional manipulation.

[RadiantCowbells]

That's why I never told FA for a long time that literally every time she was scum after I pushed on her she would say GET OUT OF HERE!!!

[RadiantCowbells]

No, it wasn't, and I have no interest in sharing it publicly. I could give it to you privately after this game though.

[RadiantCowbells]

Do you think that we're scumpartners, conferred on a towncase for shadd, then decided okay on January 20th we'll both come out with it at the same time?

[RadiantCowbells]

Cuz I know that me/GBT was the scumteam that you were considering earlier. Actually yes it would be but I'm always reinventing my scumplay so.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think either of them have a choice but to be as brazen as they do right now.

[RadiantCowbells]

That said, I am not 100% confident that Creature is the scumbuddy here.

[RadiantCowbells]

100%. MattBlackGuy's play has made literally no sense as town, the Schadd/RC scumteam idea is the kind of lazy and insanely surface level shit that scum try to push, and this whole spasm out to push on me reeks of scum getting scared of me and going in a last ditch effort to lynch me. Scum do this to me a lot.

Note that Schadd had support and I didn't but instead of voting the Schadd part of the 100% confirmed scumteam he chose to start AtEing and call for a lynch on himself. That should show you at, the very least, that the only person that he's trying to lynch today is me.

[RadiantCowbells]

It also heavily points to someone who is experienced with me (GBT/Creature) being his scumpartner because that behaviour makes more sense if his buddy told him to watch out for me and he eventually panicked.

But you weren't pushing matt?

No, I wasn't. He wasn't even on my radar. That's why I suggest Creature for scumbuddy, because it adds up, or he could have just built up pressure on himself because of how townread he was then cracked.

[RadiantCowbells]

The simplest answer is that I am not Titus. Titus was three free mislynches (two other townies that she powerwagoned then herself) for me in 623.

She is a generally solid player but she has blind spots and when they are involved she cannot play properly. I do not have the same blind spots anymore. MBG is scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Titus is also a bad comparison to make for anything involving me because our interactions with each other are worlds away from what other people are used to getting from either of us.

[RadiantCowbells]

I didn't say Titus is worse than me. When Titus is town there are tells I use on her reads on other people to determine the value of her wagons.

Her 'good scumreads' based on my metrics are insanely good.

[RadiantCowbells]

So wait I'm dying for nothing? Kind of a bummer

This is the kind of situation where selfhammering is a good play MBG, fyi.

[RadiantCowbells]

He's not town and it's good play because it denies town the ability to coordinate and read each other. Town discourse around an unconfirmed slot is far more valuable than around a confirmed one, and him keeping himself alive gives us more time and opportunities to obvtown ourselves. I don't really care about a quickhammer and I'll sort the remaining slots tomorrow with a track.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's a joke based on a whole bunch of people saying that I play similar to another player.

[RadiantCowbells]

Rask you can talk to scum all you want but don't derail this wagon.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm about as worried about MBG being town as I am about Raskolnikov being scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Uhh if MBG flips green it's probably like GBT/Creature.

[RadiantCowbells]

jw, arent those the same slots you think are mbg's most likely scum partners? @radiant

Creature >>> GBT for scumpartner with MBG but yes.

[RadiantCowbells]

MAYBE it could be you/Creature but I don't see MBG flipping town and I don't see town winning if he does.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you're town worried about a universe in which town (me or schadd) get lynched after you then maybe you shouldn't have been calling for us to get lynched after you :p

[RadiantCowbells]

Well that's what the obvious thought process would have been if you were town but apparently you couldn't be assed to think how we would interpret that.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not interested in information from the flip, not that I think there's any other lynches that are particularly informative. I want to lynch scum.

And give me a break MBG it takes far less than pushing a mislynch as RC the most cunning manipulator to be seen as confirmed scum with no recourse. I promise you that if you were town I would have gotten lynched tomorrow.

[RadiantCowbells]

schadd has been lurking (yet no one called him out for it besides me) most of the time.

RC still isn't towncleared, I won't get fooled again.

Odd thing to say given I only remember taking one game off you.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, that's... 1 game. PSTD from the 1 game?

[RadiantCowbells]

I would lynch Creature today as well.

[RadiantCowbells]

lol yes we can.

they are scumpartners schadd.

[RadiantCowbells]

lol yes we can.

they are scumpartners schadd.

If they're scum partners, why would Creature tie himself to Matt right before Matt's flip?

so he can be all 'BUT I WOULD NEVER HAVE SAID THAT IF I KNEW HE WAS FLIPPING SCUM SO CLEARLY I'M TOWN RIGHT'

[RadiantCowbells]

lol creature you obnoxious scumfuck you have already lost this game.

[RadiantCowbells]

Well, someone can hammer whenever they feel like it.

Definitely don't buy this "creature-mbg" scumteam though.

THIS IS EXACTLY THE FUCKING POINT HOLY SHIT
if you do not track Creature and he ends up endgaming I am going to be fucking livid

[RadiantCowbells]

Like you've been getting literally walked all over since you came into D1 with a townread on scum matt and now you're trying to derail Creature.
If you do not claim a track on him I am autovoting him and not posting until he is dead.

[RadiantCowbells]

We have wasted too much time on this someone needs to hammer.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Creature

[RadiantCowbells]

Still pretty certain the dude's scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

I tried my best to keep Creature alive but it was so fucking obvious that he was doc that I'm not surprised.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Grey

[RadiantCowbells]

yes I was pretty sure that he was scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't have a good pick for the other scum because I was like 100% sure MBG was scum.

It's you or Cass and you said that Grey doesn't bus so.

[RadiantCowbells]

UNVOTE:

Going to check Cass/GBT again but I don't think that was it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Uhhh

So that leaves cass/Grey.

[RadiantCowbells]

how often is RC wrong about 3 scumreads in a row?
is BoP fair here?

I was wrong about 1 scumread.

[RadiantCowbells]

#570 i can practically hear "target locked." thats a bit of hindsight but jfc

See this is just bullshit shade throwing that falls apart when you actually follow the link you're referring to, and that's why I wanted those posts linked.

VOTE: Casserole

Rask thought I was likely scum with two different people. If was a genuine read, Why would he want to push either of those two over me when lynching me is objectively more likely to hit scum?

It didn't make sense, and this right here just shows that you're throwing shit against the wall and hoping people don't actually pay attention.

ehh

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean you shouldn't have had that information but that effectively clears me.

[RadiantCowbells]

LOL now everyone takes the "opportunity" to say it clears them

Find a newbie game where I don't use the entire night phase pushing strategy. I'll wait.

I was on for most of the day as well between classes so it's not like there was an opportunity cost here.

[RadiantCowbells]

I can't verify whether GBT is legit about it but I can go link you all of my recent newbie scum games.

At the very least I'd have said something like NOOB MOD NO DAY START

[RadiantCowbells]

I am confident in Cass!scum. I still think Grey is the partner based on him spending the entire day pushing a case there but letting himself be swayed to other wagons but I'm not sure.

[RadiantCowbells]

This probably doesn't mean anything to you since you haven't lost to scum!RC yet but if I were scum you would be townreading me here.

[RadiantCowbells]

Okay Cass let's play a game.

Let's say you're town and let's say I'm town. That makes scum 2/3 of GBT/Grey/Schadd scum. Who are they and why?

[RadiantCowbells]

Okay Cass let's play a game.

Let's say you're town and let's say I'm town. That makes scum 2/3 of GBT/Grey/Schadd scum. Who are they and why?

Hmm I recall asking you something earlier about a certain 772 but maybe it was lost in the mail?

It's no stronger a dissuasion to read them as partners than GBT's play around the Cass wagon yesterday.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't understand your Grey townread.

[RadiantCowbells]

I am going to bake cookies then I am going to read from the beginning again.

[RadiantCowbells]

More often then not but I see creature get scumread a fair bit when he's town too.

yeah creature's not an IC that gets killed N1

but that's not happening this game because i'm like 80% sure creature's town here

legit think creature's the easiest player to read on this site

this was early

[RadiantCowbells]

this is the point where i realize that maybe my read is a bit loopy but i don't really have anything better

4. What is your favorite/least favorite role?

^ scummy RQS question IMO

like i would think in a newbie game, a newer player may kind of be off guard and, if they actually HAVE a PR, might have special interest in that role that shows when they answer the question

just gives me rolefishing vibes

this isn't role fishing and to say it is is beyond questionable.

[RadiantCowbells]

ooh!

2. i like the people at dominion forum but part of the fun of mafia is making character judgments about people you don't know
3. thus far, i have been mafia twice and town once. at this point, i was happy to get town just because of that, but i also like town more because knowing everything is boring
4. i like target-investigative roles, the example here being tracker

UNVOTE: gigabyteTroubador, VOTE: ThinkBig

Granted, considering your point on the newbie claiming the PR they might have gotten, he could be Tracker if he decided to soft the role in that way

Uhhhh I want to think this is town?

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't really see the point in engaging with you when you think that I'm scum and aren't going to be around tomorrow.

[RadiantCowbells]

Grey, who do you think is scum?

[RadiantCowbells]

I had a lot of reasons for doing what I did yesterday and I feel like starting to get into them will open a can of worms that will get me lynched.

If you want to understand what I've been thinking this game you're going to have to wait till postgame Rask.

[RadiantCowbells]

What's really scaring me is that no one is pushing on me at all. I was expecting scum to jump on me in a way that would be obvious but 3 people are strongly townreading me and only Cass is pushing on me.

okay well throw all of the past out

TODAY you are most confident in cass scum

why is cass scum?

it shouldn't take more than a few minutes to write it down or maybe reference a few things from ISO

I am not sure that I am. I feel like my slot was the most mislynchable slot today and you already came out with a scumread on me. I would be expecting someone to try to push my wagon but Grey and GBT seem uninterested, Schadd thinks that I'm town, and Cass isn't even pushing me as a primary scumspect.

[RadiantCowbells]

Whereas GBT/Grey/Schadd have all come out in favour of a Cass wagon which might be a bus but then I don't know who the scumpartner would be and I don't see why anyone would bus over voting me.

[RadiantCowbells]

Okay I'm starting to feel bad about all this

I am too. I really don't like how the day phase is playing out.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, I meant the D1/D2 stuff. I guess he still makes the most sense as a Cass partner?

[RadiantCowbells]

btw i still don't really see why you think giga/cass is impossible because i entered the day voting her

if that were the team it put me in a really good position to dodge an RC-tunnel and i don't think anything about it was out-of-the-question in terms of bussing?

i like to think i'm good at catching distancing and from what few games i've played recently i have a decent record but idk i'm still shit at this

It's not the vote it's the way you voted her. I don't think those interactions were SvS.
I guess they are confirmed non-SvS at that point but I already sorta knew that.

[RadiantCowbells]

I wish I said this before you came out with that but I'm starting to wonder about Grey/Giga as a scumteam.
Giga bussing Grey makes a ton of sense here, especially if Grey committed the nightkill, that reaction feels kinda overblown, and it would make the lack of pressure on me make sense.
If scum thought they could use me to lynch Cass I can see why everyone would come into today claiming townreads that weren't on me yesterday.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like I don't understand what was going on if the scumteam was Grey/Cass. Both were sort of just sitting there getting scumread by people and not doing anything.

[RadiantCowbells]

im clearing rc on my end

if me vs grey isnt scum theater (and it wasnt) and grey is scum (and he is) then rc vs grey isnt scum theater and represents playing counter to wincon

It really makes me uncomfortable that no one is trying to push on me though I guess Raskol retracted his scumread on me.

[RadiantCowbells]

I had a newbie during daytalk where we posted more in daytalk during D3 than posts that happened in the actual thread

[RadiantCowbells]

My gut says Cass, my brain says GBT.

[RadiantCowbells]

Guys I'm pretty sure I figured out the scum slot.

VOTE: Raskolnikov

I am 1-shot bP.

[RadiantCowbells]

UNVOTE:

I feel really shitty for scum if its Grey/Cass because that mod slip just made this game really difficult.

[RadiantCowbells]

So were you scumreading me at the start of the day phase or no?

[RadiantCowbells]

I was talking to Raskol.

[RadiantCowbells]

GBT what do you know about my scum meta?

[RadiantCowbells]

Literally the only scumhunting I'm doing right now is reading Grey's posts and I don't want to say anything about my interpretation because it'll influence how he posts.

[RadiantCowbells]

I was talking to Raskol.

wtf why do you ask so much this game about my read on you tho?? what does that accomplish?

You're the only person I can think of who I've played several games with who has up to this point not mislynched me so I wanted to know if you correctly townread me again.

[RadiantCowbells]

I am pretty sure I have solved this game at this point.

[RadiantCowbells]

You're the only person I can think of who I've played several games with who has up to this point not mislynched me so I wanted to know if you correctly townread me again.

I have bad experiences answering these kinds of questions before a game is over...

Fair enough. I am pretty sure that you're wrong on Cass and that GBT is the remaining scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ugh like I don't want to think that Grey could out mindgame me here but the way he's playing heavily points to Giga being scum.

He was not playing like someone who expects to lose when we were casing Cass.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not sure that he'd think to do what I'm looking at though.

[RadiantCowbells]

Grey's play feels like he expects to win. That points to his buddy not being Cass. Maybe I'm reading him wrong.

Tbh my reads have been really hit or miss since I took a several month hiatus and I'm scared that I'm misreading this.

I'm going to go back to reading and see if I can't get a clearer read.

[RadiantCowbells]

God my soft side is kicking in hard and both Cass and GBT have AtEd me to the point where I feel shitty about trying to FoS them.

I want to read GBT's past scum games and see if this is something that's down her alley. But JFC her page 5 was so town.

[RadiantCowbells]

GBT, Cass, can you go into more detail in your read on me? Why do neither of you think that there's even a reasonable chance that I could be scum here?
GBT, if we NL it's almost a certainty that I am the nightkill. It feels to me like you want to see the NL because you think that Schadd will autolynch Cass whereas I may not.

[RadiantCowbells]

I just want to say everyone played really well. If I end up mislynching someone in LyLo it's not because you played badly it's because I did and you shouldn't blame yourself for it.
Thanks everyone for putting the effort and this has been a fun game and please don't take it personally if I think you're scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Besides you I had townreads all around and a feeling that everyone on the schadd wagon was town. If you're town then I was right about that.

[RadiantCowbells]

oh that's it?

i expected more but that makes sense

More just general feeling after reading the game. I can't put words to it but I also townread slots.
Most of what gets me going on certain things is just having a feeling about something which is usually based on similarities between things people have done.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like for the record I don't think my lurking in 1718 was alignment indicative. I think lurking is generally a towntell for me.
The constant, heavy handed manipulation without a clear purpose is super scum indicative though. As town I will go as far as I need to get if I need to get one person lynched but I wind down the rest of the game.
As scum usually I want to keep the train of lynches and posturing going because it serves my wincon whereas as town I don't want to be in god emperor mode unless I have a good reason for it.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean I'll say that and yet I'll still have an army of people who will powerlynch anyone who even hints that I might be scum next time I roll scum and pull the same crap.
It works altogether too well.

[RadiantCowbells]

GBT can you link some of your scum games, particularly newbies?

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh, okay. Yeah I already read that and was wondering if I missed any.

[RadiantCowbells]

Aww I'm sorry about making you want to cry

[RadiantCowbells]

RC: is there any extra input i can give here? any at all?

Can you follow through on what your read on Grey day 1 was before I replaced? Did it not bother you that your top scumread jumped on the wagon with you?

[RadiantCowbells]

It feels really off to me that both of you were yelling that each other were scum then ended up voting the same wagon without asking questions.

[RadiantCowbells]

Schadd, what's your read?

[RadiantCowbells]

Rask, if you've nothing left to add I'd rather do the rest of my scumhunting in a Grey free environment.

[RadiantCowbells]

I am literally the worst track because the only way I could see someone not NKing raskol is if they wanted me out of the picture.

[RadiantCowbells]

There's still an insane amount of reasons to townread Schadd's early play but man do I not like what he's been doing today.

[RadiantCowbells]

If Rask thinks that you might be scum then NLing is the worst possible scenario because that just guarantees that I get NKed and Cass gets lynched. So presumably not.

I'm not going to agree to NL under any circumstance here and I'm going to be pretty upset if I get nked and town loses a LyLo that I could have won.

[RadiantCowbells]

Wait yeah there's literally no way that it's Schadd. He wouldn't have jumped off Cass to push a mislynch on his buddy in dueling wagons.

[RadiantCowbells]

The Schadd bit was more than distancing though. He had an opporutnity to hammer ThinkBig but instead chose to enable his partner being L-1ed and in a situation where he could simply say that he refuses to be on the same wagon as Cass.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean if he's playing with someone who he knows knows his meta aka GBT then he's obviously going to change up his meta. Or if partner!GBT told him about it and he decided to change because of it.

Then again if he knew GBT would assume that he would never distance him flying into the game voting partner!Cass makes a lot of sense.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think Grey not bussing is sufficiently well known that if you guys are friends he would expect you to know about it. Not sure if he would expect me to know since I only remember seeing scum!house once.

[RadiantCowbells]

As much as I was unsettled by the lack of pressure on me, can we go back to the not paranoid cuz title thing?

[RadiantCowbells]

I am altering the plan. Pray I do not alter it any further.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's okay I have a secret weapon up my sleeve.

[RadiantCowbells]

He doesn't straight up ignore partners. That's bad. He does the generic ask them occasional questions thing or he buddies them and forms a pseudotownbloc kind of like GBT did if she's scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Man Raskol I don't expect to change your mind but that's a really terrible idea.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like, assuming it's in Cass/GBT you're giving them an out to kill the one who FOSes them without much suspicion on it because 'oh that slot was cleared so they were going to die anyway'.
If it's Schadd, he nightkills me, no one even brings it up again.
The only situation that it helps is if I am scum and even if I am scum I nightkill Schadd and everyone's like meh he was the superconfirmed town who cares and there's still a 1v1 between Cass and GBT.

[RadiantCowbells]

IF you're paranoid of one of me and Schadd you should either 1) not bring it up at all because neither of us are scum or 2) bring it up today and let us respond to it.
NLing in this situation just hurts town because I don't expect Schadd to be able to properly read into the wifom of the nightkill if I die.

[RadiantCowbells]

Look I hate the idea that I'm still being scumread in this game but if you have a residual FoS of me then I'd rather that get dealt with now.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think that if I get a read worth pushing Schadd to follow me on that he will follow me on it or vice versa.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Grey

[RadiantCowbells]

If I get lynched here somehow I am going to be really sad.

[RadiantCowbells]

AERO CLOSE THE GAME YOU FUCKING RAICHU

[RadiantCowbells]

Rask, I am willing to lynch GBT if that's what you want.

Otherwise I am currently leaning GBT but I may change that vote if the game continues.

My reads haven't been fantastic this game. decision is yours.

[RadiantCowbells]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=750

idk, I still have trouble seeing 772 from scum-on-scum. do scum ever get genuinely super upset at their partners for voting them? this is where I'd normally be able to clear a lot of people if I had some info on them, because a lot of players wouldn't do something like this, but cass is a big unknown

Speaking as someone who loves to bus... yes some people get pissed. I always ask permission now.

[RadiantCowbells]

I've had people try to get me modkilled for 'playing against my win-condition.'

[RadiantCowbells]

I have something to point out.

Cassielle was last online at 5:27 PM. The day end was done at 5:58 PM. Cass couldn't have submitted a kill action.

Thoughts?

[RadiantCowbells]

Schadd pls don't respond in thread or at least don't respond to that line of thinking until both GBT and Cass have posted.

[RadiantCowbells]

Schadd go ahead. What's your immediate response to that?

[RadiantCowbells]

I think from a town PoV the answer is really obvious and that the roundabout answer and questioning the tracker comes from someone who knows/thinks the inno's legit.

[RadiantCowbells]

Schadd, you thought that Cass was scum, right? What do you think?

[RadiantCowbells]

Okay maybe nevermind. Anyway I think Cass as scum could easily have submitted a night action at any time since the nightkill was obvious but maybe that line of reasoning isn't as clear as I thought.