Newbie 1768: Party Mafia - Game over!

[Titus]

Partially, but I am also naked voting to see if I can trigger more of the funny speech patterns from Lemon.

If you want more funny speech patterns then why aren't you trying to actively engage with them?

@Titus I don't believe you answered me on this.

I am engaging them, just not in a direct way.

[Titus]

^^My response wound up in quote. EL just seems far too obsessed with not throwing GL under the bus.

I have time for one really quick post

Titus: We're way past that. Last time that was mentioned was #82, and we're in the 300s now. Just seems a bit weird that you're pushing something that I dropped before the game gained momentum. Is there really nothing else that tells you that I could be scum?

nancy: I'd like you to please explain why your vote on me was so definite when you said at the beginning of your post that you were ambiguous about me.

You all already voted me up right at the beginning of the game, unvoted, and then started voting me up again. Just pointing that out.

There is no past. Just now. Time possibly determines revelance, but not whether I let things go.

Your posts are riddled with such awkward language that suggests scum and on D1 in a small game, word choice is the best evidence.

[JaeReed]

Titus are your RL issues slowing you down still a thing?

[nancy]

Hypothetical being me and EL as scum partners.
Why would I question your townread on EL rather than just agree in much the same manner that GL did?

Because you're better scum than GL, or because GL isn't scum. Your subsequent content was therefore preempting a possible scumread. This makes sense if you are partners because you know her to be scum and know how she has messed up.

Didn't Revan say that he was reading Titus strongly as scum just to elicit a reaction? Everything else about that aside, that's lying and I've heard that if there's a #1 rule as Town it's don't lie.

Sorry I can't reply more properly than this on my fone.

[Revan]

Honestly lying to get an idea of alignments is fine, as long as you share what you gained from the test. You should never lie about your role, though.

[bowdown]

Thank you Jae for the more general theory content. Even with your rephrasing of your comment about votes on lemon, the original still bothers me. Even your second one feels like it's coming from a place of already knowing lemon's alignment.

[bowdown]

I want to talk about Revan's claim that he called Titus scum to get a read. Here's where it starts. BTW this started off as a "why Revan is lying" post and morphed into the opposite. I think it's really easy to disbelieve Revan's claim of this because of how long it takes from him voting Jae to actually explaining why he was voting Titus, for reactions/evidence.

Page 4 is read!

A lot of what JaeReed is posting seems very simple and easily producible, sub-par with what I would expect out of an IC.

Titus is obviously scum. Insincere questioning, and posts seem to be coming from someone that has the motivation to distract town.

VOTE: Titus

Keep in mind that Revan claims this is just to get a read on Titus.

I say we lynch Titus.

Jae why are you scumreading tojam? Putting him at the bottom of your list doesn't mean that it's justified at all.

Reiterating pressure. Very next post, Titus:

So what's next here? Does PR cc now? Wait until tomorrow? Something else?

A PR only claims if one shot bp cannot exist within their framework.

Titus continues in the thread getting me to move my vote to Lemon. Soon after, we get:

Titus is being pretty uncooperative, and hard to read.

Why don't you defend yourself?

The lack of defending yourself against a single vote and scumread is telling. Here's the thing - soon after is the post (210) where Revan moves off of voting Titus and onto Jae. I believe this is sincere because Revan's questions toward Titus earlier are "why aren't you defending yourself" and then another plain "I say we lunch Titus". Those are questions yes but not actively pushing the lynch of Titus.

Now, it takes a while before Revan admits that was the reason for his vote (269), which I felt like was tacked on after the fact. But Revan's questions @Jae are actually trying to push a lynch of Jae.

Then why didn't they press them for answer so if they were trying to solve the game? Either way, it's indicative of scum.

It does actually, well, most if it. You never scumread tojam before, then you opportunistically jump on the wagon.

^ Nevermind I just remembered the EccentricLion slip.

I think Lion is town here. This is more in-depth and subtle analysis than I saw from him in his scumgame.

I also scumread this. I scumread anyone for meta-reading. Meta reads are just an easy way out for scum. "x is y because this isn't their z game"

Bowdown let's lynch Jae so then you know I'm town when they flip red. It will make the rest of the game a lot easier for you.

TLDR: I believe Revan saying he was voting Titus to get a read there.

UNVOTE:

[bowdown]

Thinking that (Revan's Titus thing) over on the way in to work - i don't think him telling the truth is very alignment indicative though. It's not a scumtell/scumslips/major scum read as it would be if he was lying about voting Titus for pressure. But it's plausible to see scum-Revan voting Titus for read/to see what the rest of us thought of that vote and Titus, and then pushing a pretty flawed case on Jae.

[Titus]

Titus are your RL issues slowing you down still a thing?

Yes but not as severely as they used to. When business picks up, I post less.

[Titus]

Hypothetical being me and EL as scum partners.
Why would I question your townread on EL rather than just agree in much the same manner that GL did?

Because you're better scum than GL, or because GL isn't scum. Your subsequent content was therefore preempting a possible scumread. This makes sense if you are partners because you know her to be scum and know how she has messed up.

Didn't Revan say that he was reading Titus strongly as scum just to elicit a reaction? Everything else about that aside, that's lying and I've heard that if there's a #1 rule as Town it's don't lie.

Sorry I can't reply more properly than this on my fone.

Voting for reactions is not considered a lie.

[tojam2]

tojam, what are your reads/thoughts on where we lunch?

There's a nice Turkish in my village, best doner kebap in the north west.

I don't want to see myself, you, Nancy, Titus or Jae lynched today, lynching townJae could break the game for town.

[tojam2]

Let's imagine a hypothetical scenario for a moment. Assume EccentricLemon is scum. JaeReed asks me to question my TR of EL and afterwards begins to post very actively. In the midst of this they put their first vote of the game on tojam2 with little to no justification (his worst crime at that point was basically not posting enough content), and post their reads list/tier. After intimating that their preference was for wagoning to pressure players (demonstrated in practice by their vote on tojam2), they claim, in rather uncertain terms, that in light of a newbie's post they believe EL may be Town (am I really meant to believe that I pointed things out to them that they hadn't already seen?), unvotes, expresses the opinion that we should not focus on Lemon, and suggests to me that a conflicted read is fine as a null read (sounds like great advice, but it also greatly serves their rescue of Lemon). Their previous hesitance to scumhunt is gone, they begin dispensing advice and towncred freely, and are quickly directing Town in directions away from Lemon.

So yes, right now I believe that JaeReed and EccentricLemon are scum partners. Take a look at 168 again, too, or previous examples of Jae ignoring people's questions when they're part of a scumhunting effort directed against them.

Hypothetical being me and EL as scum partners.
Why would I question your townread on EL rather than just agree in much the same manner that GL did? By asking about your townread I opened up my hypothetical partner in that case to you re-evaluating on them, with me knowing full well they're too newb to defend themselves effectively. It would be a lot better for me in that situation to allow the townreads to amass on my partner and push a hypothetical town Titus to a lynch since she was voting my partner.

Sometimes it takes a different perspective, and it's important to consider others perspectives because they might have picked up on something that you missed. That's not to say you should follow them over your own judgement, but yes, I looked at your post about EL, thought about your reasonings, pointed out the things I agreed/disagreed with in it, and ended up agreeing with your original assessment.

Also yes, I became more involved with the game after a week of soft directing on the basics of scumhunting and doing my own poking at certain things. I really don't believe there was a hesitance to scumhunt though. A hesitance to push and give reads too early, certainly, but not to scumhunt altogether.

If I've ignored questions it's more likely I just didn't remember they were asked or hadn't gotten around to catching up to that point yet. Feel free to quote at me if you think I missed something.

Noobiness is indicative that this player is a noon, not more.

[tojam2]

I meant noob, damn autocorrect

[Revan]

Not lynching someone if theyre town it will hurt town is terrible logic.

[SirCakez]

Votecount 1.8

EccentricLemon (2) - Titus, nancy
Revan (1) - GuiltyLion
tojam2 (1) - EccentricLemon
JaeReed (1) - Revan
nancy (1) - tojam2

Not voting (3) - Agent Sparkles, JaeReed, bowdown

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch someone.

nancy is V/LA through Sunday.
EccentricLemon is V/LA through Friday.

(expired on 2017-01-16 11:14:00) remain until day end

[SirCakez]

Prodding Agent Sparkles

[Titus]

Not lynching someone if theyre town it will hurt town is terrible logic.

No it isn't unless they dismiss valid reasons why the slot is scum.

Utility is and always will be a tiebreaker.

Let's lynch Lemon.

LLL for the win.

[Revan]

I think EL is too townread to be lynched today.

Jae is the right lynch.

[JaeReed]

Ehhh the problem I'm running into when thinking about a scum!Revan world is how he actually does seem to have conviction in his read.

If Revan's town that means I'm likely townreading scum.

[Agent Sparkles]

Post coming soon

[JaeReed]

Titus are your RL issues slowing you down still a thing?

Yes but not as severely as they used to. When business picks up, I post less.

Hm... :/ You're worrying me, tbh. The game has been slower than usual ones and you haven't made a noticeable push to advance it. I can't tell if that's you being scum or just busy.

I mean, yes, you're voting Lemon and started it with a naked vote, but you're not actively prodding the gamestate forward like I expect from you.

What does it mean for your reads if EL flips town?

[JaeReed]

Her ISO isn't focused on determining alignment of anyone. There's a litter of ADD scattershot pushes.

Isn't this kind of contradictory? I feel like Lemon's ADD scattershot pushes show that she was trying to determine people's alignments?

[JaeReed]

Her "push" if you can call it that, fades when "the cool kids" unvote.

This is also kind of incorrect. The only person who was on and moved off GL was me? My unvote didn't necessarily have a big fanfare around it either.

[GuiltyLion]

@GL how would my Titus scumread still be genuine? That makes no sense. I figured the best way to get a reaction is to call them out as "obviously scum" to get them panicked that they got caught so easily.

I don't buy this. I don't believe that you would be town with no read on Titus who makes that first post calling Titus "obviously scum". The fact that you're trying to walkback the declared scumread looks fake, like you wanted to come out swinging for towncred and then felt the need to invent a reason afterwards to explain why you were aggressive initially and then backing off afterwards.

Town doing a reaction gambit as you're describing would still have a legitimate scumread on Titus driving their post, but you posted 269 as if you never had a read to begin with. But even in the last sentence here you're now suggesting that you had some level of suspicion on Titus, but that's not what you said in 269.

[GuiltyLion]

Hey GL, question for you that's bugging me: You voted and made a case on me, and then now follow me onto Regan. It feels weird, especially given that:

- You already followed me once onto Lemon

- Of the three people who have been posting the most (Jae, Nancy, and myself) I am the only one with a townread on you.

I don't know if it's a thing or not, but it's really bugging me.

Following you onto Lemon was super early into D1. I didn't have any sort of read on you then. I found it suspicious how you hopped off of Lemon - while giving yourself room to come back - and went to a non-player, and then jumped on tojam for reasons I didn't think were very good, and wanted to push you on that.

also I generally don't have a problem following someone else onto a wagon on D1, the game will only provide more information and continue to narrow possible worlds as we get flips and reduce the number of players. D1 play is mostly poking people to get reactions that may be useful later, and then coalescing onto a lynch outside of your townreads.