Newbie 1769: Happy New Year! (Post-Game)

[Raskolnikov]

MyLo/LyLo

This is the point of the game where town can't lynch another town (Mislynch and Lose) or they have to lynch scum (Lynch (scum) or Lose). It's worth being more cautious here as scum can coordinate a quickhammer on a wagon if someone misvotes, I recommend using FoS (Finger of Suspicion).

HMMMMMM

HMMMMMMMMMMM

[Raskolnikov]

L-# stands for # votes to reach that lynch. L-1 means that player is one vote away from getting lynched.

Mmm Hmm.

[Raskolnikov]

Somewhat unfamiliar, actually

Really makes you think doesn't it?

[Raskolnikov]

I'm referring to our mini where you werent cautious at all and voted completley will nilly

[Raskolnikov]

I'm not looking forward to this game.

If you're scum you probably kill me first thing n1 and if you're town I'd have to stop you from getting lynched 100 times just for you to end up lynching me out of paranoia and uncertainty

[Raskolnikov]

Okay I guess that kill was drone's so it's not that fair

[Raskolnikov]

never trust an EMer

[Raskolnikov]

_schadd, is your TB vote serious?

mine is

a bit. the questions were all things that i would either say or not say, if you catch my drift

Like, they're lame?

[Raskolnikov]

Need the others in, nothing here's really that interesting.

[Raskolnikov]

It's neither by votecount nor alphabetical?

[Raskolnikov]

Must be sorted by alignment then huh?

[Raskolnikov]

this would've been a better place for a VC

[Raskolnikov]

More often then not but I see creature get scumread a fair bit when he's town too.

Discussing who would be the best target for scum kill probably isn't something we should be doing to be honest.

[Raskolnikov]

It's kind of an awkward moment in the game but we're still missing like half the playerlist atm.

[Raskolnikov]

He's pretty easy to read though I don't know him nearly well enough to say so this early.

IC posts and so far feel pretty NAI and there's not that much to talk about either

[Raskolnikov]

that's true but it's early and aside from answering questions and comments on the VC there's pretty much the schadd observation
and I don't feel comfortable with a read hinging on essentially one thing.

Not to mention considering I was a bit sus of him in that game where he killed me n1 and since you apparently know him he'd have some vague idea he's going into this under some level of scrutiny

I wish you wouldn't have said this out loud before i made my mind up but there's still other tells at least.

[Raskolnikov]

In general I like looking at people when their guard is down so this is kinda lame, hopefully you're right anyways though.

Actually this was kinda my bad for asking about it.

[Raskolnikov]

So I kind of take issue with doing things in a gamestate like this on principle.

It's very realistic one or both (given my reads) scum are in those who haven't done anything and if you force yourself to find something where there could be potentially nothing it can be inefficient or downright misleading.

In one of my very first games both scum actually just lurked out, eventually getting replaced out and only started to come into scrutiny a lot later where everyone including me tunneled and lynched town, I had the exact thought "there's no way both of them replaced out!" and misread on that basis.

Pretty confident you're town now though, at least. Schadd's alright too.

[Raskolnikov]

I'm not sure on think but putting him l-1 on that basis doesn't really feel justified?

[Raskolnikov]

their game here so far is probably within their scum range but it feels way more town than not so. dunno how else to word it

Wtf is this seriously though

How do you have expectations of me without having played with me? You sure you aren't scum with someone who played with me before or something?

This is actually annoying because it's the latest in trends I've gotten, I seem to get paranoia from people who haven't even ever played with me which is like the most random thing ever. People I played with it at least makes SOME sense but what or just how is this. How does it even happen? Is there something in my style that puts people on edge or something? People at some just randomly assumed I was a scumgod and every game since I've dealt with that and the weirdest thing is it doesn't even have a logical basis.
Even just last game aside from scumcloud it was townhoopla for literally no reason and blackvoid, at least creature there had SOME justification given he's actually played with me but really.

[Raskolnikov]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8630034

[Raskolnikov]

Anyways I think it's fine having think at l-1 now.

2 of think/rakkar/shade probably

think's been a little uptight but the thing that is weird is how little he said when creature did what he saw as a legitimate scumtell, I'd expect more elaboration there or show of interest

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: thinkbig L-1

[Raskolnikov]

you guys suck.

[Raskolnikov]

i've townread some of your scumplay before so i don't really think it's a far-fetched conclusion though. i think the scum games of yours i remember was that Open with Lycanfire and that newbie with rXJr where i did have you as a townread in both

Okay that actually makes sense, sorry for lashing out at you about it then. Couldn't really have known that but whatevs

[Raskolnikov]

What's your read on him though?

[Raskolnikov]

-__-

[Raskolnikov]

Well, imma put him at L-1, if thats ok

What's your read on him though?

[Raskolnikov]

Thinkbig if you're actually town and just happened to check the thread via phone 10 minutes after I voted and overreacted based on an l-2 because you were on mobile and couldn't read and claimed because you didnt have time to respond because you weren't home yet and you also have your own personal theory that people should claim at l-2 without intent I've never heard about, I think I hate both you and my luck.

[Raskolnikov]

gigabyte has anyone ever compared you to aristo before?

[Raskolnikov]

UNVOTE:

This isn't going to be as easy as it looked.

[Raskolnikov]

how so rask?

Thinkbig's statement makes me think I should meta him but I really can't be bothered atm, I hate meta diving especially d1.

You were going to put him l-1 without any reason or a scumread apparently, and one of my other townreads I'm not so sure on either.

Still need those two others to say something too

[Raskolnikov]

creature I bitched at you for this when I was scum a whole lot, but saying things like that literally accomplishes nothing and is a waste of space when you don't go into detail.

[Raskolnikov]

leans probably me, he said he'd never townread me ever again.

[Raskolnikov]

yuh. {claim before catching up} {assert against the grain that there can be reasons to claim at l-2} rubs me the wrong way

Could you go into more detail for me?

Can I get your analysis on some of the other players too?

[Raskolnikov]

prodge

probably doing this game tomorrow

[Raskolnikov]

alright I have time for this today

[Raskolnikov]

I think I'll lurk this game for funsies to creep out creature

[Raskolnikov]

Gigabyte was all paranoid earlier but switched to defending me?

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: rakkar

this is most likely the scum.

Holding onto the tell for now but it's a good one, tried and true.

[Raskolnikov]

Hey all! I have off today and tomorrow (WOO HOO) so let me take some time to catch up!

hmmmmmmmmmm

[Raskolnikov]

obviously, that means in a few hours from now then.

[Raskolnikov]

well now that's not true. people forget about these things all the time.

[Raskolnikov]

I've counted 50 skulls now

that's about a 0.6 skull to post ratio

[Raskolnikov]

I remember them. both in the same game, actually. vedith claimed his PR d1 and got mislynched because he confused a no-result with a not-guilty. lycanfire said something akin to "x, y, z are scum. but never lynching these players: [entire scumteam]"

it sure was a massacre!

[Raskolnikov]

I think the players on the other side there were pretty skilled.

[Raskolnikov]

1. mattblackguy

2. GAYreenHamster

3. Shade
4. rakkar
5. schadd_
6. Raskolnikov (SE)
7. ThinkBig (SE)

8. gigabyteTroubadour (SE)

9. Creature (IC)

[Raskolnikov]

this list needs some fixing.

[Raskolnikov]

1. mattblackguy

2. GAYreenHamster

3. Shade
4. rakkar
5. schadd_
6. Raskolnikov (SE)
7. ThinkBig (SE)
8. gigabyteTroubadour (SE)

9. Creature (IC)

[Raskolnikov]

1. mattblackguy

2. GAYreenHamster
3. Shade
4. rakkar
5. schadd_
6. Raskolnikov (SE)
7. ThinkBig (SE)
8. gigabyteTroubadour (SE)
9. Creature (IC)

[Raskolnikov]

1. mattblackguy

2. GAYreenHamster
3. Shade
4. rakkar

5. schadd_

6. Raskolnikov (SE)
7. ThinkBig (SE)
8. gigabyteTroubadour (SE)
9. Creature (IC)

[Raskolnikov]

1. mattblackguy

2. GAYreenHamster ?
3. Shade ? [not with think]
4. rakkar ?

5. schadd_

6. Raskolnikov (SE)
7. ThinkBig (SE) ?
8. gigabyteTroubadour (SE) ?

9. Creature (IC)

yeah this look about right.

[Raskolnikov]

I remember them. both in the same game, actually. vedith claimed his PR d1 and got mislynched because he confused a no-result with a not-guilty. lycanfire said something akin to "x, y, z are scum. but never lynching these players: [entire scumteam]"

it sure was a massacre!

What game?

Open 651

[Raskolnikov]

Watch out with who's just inflating their post count.

hmmmmmmmmm

[Raskolnikov]

hmmm

[Raskolnikov]

huh.

[Raskolnikov]

yeah that's fair enough.

[Raskolnikov]

yeah these lurkers really suck who's with me on that one

[Raskolnikov]

she's probably right but if she's wrong 2 or 3 times you could lynch her for it im sure she wouldnt mind heheh

its still too early to decide but we have a comfortable 10 days left so big problem there

you can only really read people if they post but theres just not quite enough yet to move forward

[Raskolnikov]

giga how do you interpret gayreen willingness to put think to l-1 without comment?

that and not that much info in general (though still more than think/rak) makes me not feel safe clearing him just yet

[Raskolnikov]

Well yeah I don't think he's particularly scummy either just don't see it as clear worthy

seeing a direct tell is one thing but absence of a scumtell isn't quite as reliable as a nice big towntell imo

[Raskolnikov]

about how many games you and gayreen played on that other site?

[Raskolnikov]

heh

Compared you to aristo because he was so polite and almost artificially nice and happy go lucky I straight up mislynched him for being fake. He whiteknighted me a bit when I scumread and wagoned, seemed to have strong townread me off of like only 4 posts, and when I pushed for his lynch later all he said was "that would be a really good case if I was scum, it's amazing and so in depth! but I'm not scum". and was even like apologetic as if being scumread was somehow his fault.

[Raskolnikov]

well you're like apologizing for a literal site limitation as if its at all a big deal because i asked a question

I take back happy-go-lucky that's more him you're kind of gloomy with the skulls actually.

[Raskolnikov]

wait weren't you on EM with like maria and transcend and stuff too

the avatar thing

[Raskolnikov]

I like the part where the wordcloud forms a table lamp

have to say, I prefer town over scum pretty much exclusively but I wouldn't have minded rolling scum this game if it meant getting to screw around with you and creature.

you seem like you'd be fun to mess with and creature would spend the majority of a game in a constant state of worrying about me but not being confident enough to do anything which is kinda cute

[Raskolnikov]

We have 10 days, we can hold out a bit more. Wouldn't mind seeing if think or rakkar get replaced.

[Raskolnikov]

how do you forget about a game where you're like being wagoned hardcore?

[Raskolnikov]

actually i kind of just made a really weird assumption so i'm going to resolve it

rask why aren't you townreading me? or at least strong enough to cross out like schadd_ or matt (creature i'd add in too but he's basically conftown tbh)

i assumed you just aren't really familiar with me and i'm not a newbie so i'm not as likely to tell as transparently but i'm worse at this then i let on sometimes

also rask can you get back to me on this or just refuse to answer it (not ignore it)

ty

maybe I like to see who cares?

but nah I dont remember saying I didnt townread you.

you're not a newbie and I have evidence of you being decent at scum and worse yet, even enjoying it... how filthy.

if you actually like scum and somehow find it interesting and enjoyable like it seemed you did, you could just fake for days with unlimited stamina

most people at least find it wears them out or drains them maintaining the facade but those who take a lot of enjoyment out of it... thats most of why EMers have wrecked me so many times also. every single game.

as a non-newbie with half-decent scumgame out of due diligence the earliest I cross that is d2, but it'd also be inherently weird if we're still both be alive then. see the issue?

[Raskolnikov]

The list thing was kind of poking fun at creature though anyways, I think there's something inherently dangerous in crossing something off, there's some sort of finality in that which is rarely ever fully justified.

[Raskolnikov]

Oh and also posting it all public for everyone to see is pretty questionable too.

or maybe I'm spoiled because how much I get townread lets me get away with keeping a lot to myself and even just lie sometimes if I think it's better in the moment.

[Raskolnikov]

1. If his reads are generally "townread the loudest people, scumread lurking town" he's probably scum.
2. If he doesn't have that many crossed out lists he's probably scum.
3. If he's not doing anything resembling scumhunting he's probably scum.
4. If he's deliberately inflating his post count with ???? that isn't weird Creature gamesolving ???? (e.g., seeing if scumreads make sense as a scumteam by looking to see how close they are together in the playerlist) he's probably scum.
5. If his tone feels monotonous and just more indifferent than normal he's probably scum

I like how these are all things that apply to me.

[Raskolnikov]

by being in like 10 ongoing games and maybe not wanting to face that/not liking scum probably

also pedit: gotcha, just assumed not crossed out equaled null/scumread... was the rqs the only time i mentioned me liking scum? i've posted so much here and in other games recently i kind of forgot what i said and where

In your scumgame I think nightchat you said you loved it after trying it.

[Raskolnikov]

Oh gnight. I should probably sleep soon too.

[Raskolnikov]

I'm a genius.

[Raskolnikov]

Casserole flashy play, looks like scumhunting but there's a lot of confidence and preconceived notions behind it. Suggests that wherever she came from she was one of the power players there, not necessarily an everyday harmless newbie.

Catchups are tricky to judge, as is whether read on your truly is reasonable, hard to tell about myself.

It's good this game isn't as easy as think/rakkar at least.

[Raskolnikov]

Gayreen
Shade
Thinkbig

{Thinkbig, Gayreen}
{Shade, Gayreen}
Thinkbig/shade prob not

Not quite convincing, potentially wrong on someone

[Raskolnikov]

i wouldnt call myself among the power players (i actually had a tendency to get mled d1 as town and coast to endgame as scum, it was a very mellow site meta) but i know how the game is played and this site's meta seems more in tune with my playstyle anyhow.

i hope you are giving my question thought? im not the only one coming to you being in the top scumteam here and the other is all but conftown so i mean, yeah

You get the best reactions at l-1, pressure gives you a pretty good gauge if the person ever actually responds. Instead of being away all the time busy and/or on phoneposting etc. Thinkbig's also probably one of the few players who'd claim in that situation.

Though I doublecheck on principle before I ever actually vote, whether something is actual l-1 or it just looks like l-1 is essentially the same for reactions. Similar principle as fakehammer (voting someone you're already voting in a faux hammer) where you play a little info trick.

[Raskolnikov]

You know what I don't get? Gayreen said he'd put him to actual l-1 until he claimed (actually, I think that contributed to his claiming) but you don't seem interested in that, though it's not very different from what I did.

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Shade

Probably should've joined this wagon when it originally happened.

[Raskolnikov]

If you're judging my play by the metric of my reads being different than yours, than maybe you can look at one of my finished games, follow a bit of a d1, and see how my reads there would stack up on what you saw.

[Raskolnikov]

First wagon in a day is primarily for info, days never end that earlier unless someone accidently (or scum) quickhammer but that was warned against.
Even if my reads were the same as what you expressed (which they weren't), those others were there and active without needing to be pressured in any way.

[Raskolnikov]

Shade visited yesterday, he probably checks in again today and sees this then responds.

Even if think never posts again just seeing more of shade could shed some light on think given their lil neg association.

[Raskolnikov]

@Shade I want your reads aside from thinkbig

[Raskolnikov]

Okay, that seals the deal for casserole.

[Raskolnikov]

First wagon in a day

is primarily for info

, days never end that earlier unless someone accidently (or scum) quickhammer but that was warned against.
Even if my reads were the same as what you expressed (which they weren't),

those others were there and active without needing to be pressured

in any way.

[Raskolnikov]

How do d1 first wagons usually play out were you're from?

[Raskolnikov]

I like to have everyone on the field before making a my judgment, I think I talk about it here before actually.

At that point it was think, your own slot, and I think maybe someone else who were bare. Of those think seemed like he was talking for the sake of talking.

[Raskolnikov]

It's not really the same but 66 is along similar lines, of course you can look at my previous games if you don't believe me when I say I tend to take d1 slow. And always, even if I scumread the first wagon a lot further from not liking their reactions, even then I still tend to back off a bit, reconsider and look at the alternative possibilities before ending.

[Raskolnikov]

I'm not sure, you creature gigabyte all say gayreen obvtown but he's just nullish to me, kind of there but I can't really make a decision either way. Especially now after you came in.

I wouldn't mind being shown something about it though it sounds mostly like gutreads. and giga partially says it's on meta which I can't really see for myself.

[Raskolnikov]

hey casserole what would you do if you felt lazy and most of your scumpool was also lurking?

[Raskolnikov]

Or just lazy in general, I find people hate it but it's how I feel here.

[Raskolnikov]

Maybe if you ask me more questions it'll be interesting.

[Raskolnikov]

I'd probably sheep you if your reads looked better.

[Raskolnikov]

Cass, not think. Hi thinkbig!

[Raskolnikov]

If it were one or two things different I'd try to talk about it but if it's like half the playerbase and it'd involve going over every single one multiple times would take so long

[Raskolnikov]

Can't you just agree with people to not use postcount as an indicator of much instead trying to force me to change my posting style? If it's globally acknowledged as "inflated" I don't really see the problem?

[Raskolnikov]

I could go over everyone person by person but talking about townreads is pretty boring tbh.

[Raskolnikov]

I consider you, matt and scadd_ as full newbie clears. I guess there our biggest difference is matt so I could talk about that.

[Raskolnikov]

LOL thinkbig did you exhaust all your effort colouring that or something

No,

I

did! (in a seperate completed game) - Aero

[Raskolnikov]

Now presenting, the new

ReadList 2.0

In full colour and detail, sorted for your convenience.

Coming soon to a store near you

p.s. explanations tomorrow

[Raskolnikov]

That's actually just WTF but also the first time I've seen anything like it

[Raskolnikov]

Aeronaut and other people on the site use the colours for read list. I personally like the colour codes as it is easy to see visually where you put people.

What's the thought process though in spending time fetching a fancy format instead of talking about your scumreads?

Even just a paragraph on a scumread is better than making a list and making it fancy which pretty much communicates fuck all.

[Raskolnikov]

So matt I think just has too much depth behind his posts for a scum newbie to reasonably fake.
185 I like how he seems like he has genuine trouble saying why he thinks giga is town (I think there are a lot of things you could make up if you wanted to as scum) and the apology at the end and kind of tone make me think he'd actually sincerely give more if he could. "wouldn't everyone claim vt d1?" is wrong though that's a side point.
I love 240 because he himself isn't satisfied giving a readlist and he wants to impact the game and actually have his thoughts get considered (it feels like, like he knows he's a newbie but really wants to be taken seriously?).
Unvote for rakkar replacement's fair and I find scum often have a compulsion to plopping their vote somewhere else after unvoting like that which wasn't the case.
Latest analysis I generally agree with aside from the read on yours truly (and also I'm having a lil bit of paranoia on an SE), though pretty much everyone seems to suspect me to some degree so it's awkward for me to judge.

In general definitely scumhunting and pretty much all business about it.

[Raskolnikov]

Schadd's feels more of a niche read (might be harder to go into) but I can revisit and talk about him too

interrogating is towny, emotions are scummy. a bit more of the former, tho

Initial impression was this in his read on me, it's weird but I don't actually see why or how scum would make this judgment about interrogating vs emotions and come out overall leaning to the former. Basically it's nuanced but there's no clear malicious reason he'd fake it (if OTOH analysis makes someone look bad or tries to buddy you can see scum motive but townlean not as much). I'm not sure this is as big of a towntell as it was when I first saw it but I still think it's pretty town from him.

The rest of that post looks alright though I'm not sure how to judge, given how little existed at that point beyond gbt-creat-me (and I myself am not 100% on gbt yet, my interaction with her probably having coloured my view somewhat too).

230 is the second major thing, this was amazing for questioning GBT as most widely townread player, on both having too many townreads and me and then expressing a sort of almost "shock" that me and creature didn't find it strange and almost a "well I guess they probably know better?" feeling on top it at the end. The first part is "against-the-current" focus I don't think you generally see from scum, given it doesn't look like casting shade either I don't think that disrupting the status quo or something malicious was really his intention going for that either (in other words not much scum motivation fulfilled there). But then after, taking it and thinking to me and creature as SEs and that kind of consideration, I don't think I'm imagining any of that and it'd be incredibly creative for him as scum to have gone through each of those steps after the read in one thought process I feel. Rest of the post didn't/still doesn't really stick out but the others still didnt have much content at that point.

detail is what i used, as scum, to look like i was doing something. if you say something simple and then link to a post, then the attention is taken off of yourself. to add to this, i don't really have any grandiose reasoning for anyone, but i have given some amount of support for all of my moderately strong reads; you can probably find them if you really want to. i couldn't go through everyone without repeating myself. if you scumread me for that, cool.
incidentally, "theyre not feeling nice to me, im not liking them one bit." doesn't feel nice to me.

This is pretty much just WIFOM on the surface but coming from a newbie this reads pretty sincere. I like the "i couldn't go through everyone without repeating myself. if you scumread me for that, cool." kind of take-it-or-leave-it attitude, it looks like that feeling where you've done your due-diligence and because of that don't feel like you particularly "ought" to do anymore, which definitely isn't a scum thing. (absolutely not to be confused with apathy or straight up scum lurking though). Self-meta here too matches up with him having played scum more times than town if that makes sense.

Overall it's a little harder to get a gauge on his scumhunting but I think it's because he's had the same issue with think and former rakkar slot lurking so much. I like his questioning of gayreen being so townread and his expressed doubts there, not only do I agree but also he didn't go too far the other way or try to make him look bad on it either as I think scum might've.

[Raskolnikov]

Alright so that's matt and schadd, although over the very course of me doing this I feel like things have kind of shifted into an overall fuck-raskolnikov mentality this game.

So I'm not sure how much we'll actually discuss read differences now as opposed to, well.

[Raskolnikov]

Uhhhhhh casserole can you save me I'm in kind of a tight spot here.

[Raskolnikov]

Can we please wagon this instead of me, thank you all for your cooperation.

VOTE: Thinkbig

Will sheep for hire

[Raskolnikov]

Creature I've never pulled in a favour from you before but I'd appreciate an unvote right about soon.

[Raskolnikov]

Cass replaced rakkar.

Rakkar had the classic scumtell where you say you're excited and eager to do something but when things happen it becomes too much and you disappear. Compounded with PoE and a bit of confbiasy thinking that maybe think's partner felt demotivated.

Cass replace was pretty exceptional though.

[Raskolnikov]

Cass replaced rakkar.

Yeah, right.

Enough said.

How do you treat replacements -grey- ?

[Raskolnikov]

It's as if you think weighting a scumread on a slot with not much content low and re-evaluating it when you have a lot more isn't the right thing to do?

[Raskolnikov]

re: 570

Not quite convincing, potentially wrong on someone

Not quite convincing, potentially wrong on someone

That was the emphasis in that post. The point, the conclusion, of it. If on the other hand it all looked sunshine and daisies I might've just followed it on blind faith but is that what it looked like?
Though other townreads disagreeing with me there too was a part of it as well, perhaps you missed the context via just ISOing?

[Raskolnikov]

Mmm I might be a bit on edge atm.

[Raskolnikov]

re: 570

Not quite convincing, potentially wrong on someone

Not quite convincing, potentially wrong on someone

That was the emphasis in that post. The point, the conclusion, of it. If on the other hand it all looked sunshine and daisies I might've just followed it on blind faith but is that what it looked like?
Though other townreads disagreeing with me there too was a part of it as well, perhaps you missed the context via just ISOing?

Will obviously you're potentially wrong on someone, but it's rather difficult to operate under the assumption you aren't right.

If your reads were genuine, I believe you would have voted me with the intention of finding my partner if I flipped red.

Putting me as a possible partner with two different players, them voting one of those other players instead of me in a later post reads fabricated as fuck.

VOTE: Rask

L-1

That would make sense if I said I liked the conclusions because it would be using that conclusion as the basis of my action.
Essentially my point there was I didn't like the conclusion, didn't want to use it, and that instead I should go back to drawing board and get some more information.
476. Shade out all of those was the most likely to actually respond in a timely fashion. This is extremely context dependent and you're a replacement, but ask someone else who was active what the gamestate was at that time.

[Raskolnikov]

and now, youre feeling pressured at l-2, when you feel like l-1 is a fair amount of pressure to throw on a hapless noob in the early game? im calling you scum, buddy

That's not how it works... you apply pressure to see what comes out. To get a read.
Me doing that to other people isn't somehow contradictory to me not feeling a bit uncomfortable when it's me. I mean I lynch people but I wouldn't ever like being lynched either.

I'm not saying you don't have the "right" to vote me or pressure me or that it's inherently wrong, I'm not saying on principle pressuring is objectively bad, I just personally have tried to ease it up on me because it's me. I don't see your issue here.

[Raskolnikov]

rask is THE SEVENTH CIRCLE now. mbg is scumlean, tb and shade are my prefered scumbuddies for rask.

scum busses and tb flaked quick when the pressure ratcheted

, and shades been distant but rask has been mostly ignoring shade until people started staring his way.

Did you see how fast mbg unvoted when I put Rask to L-1?

Oh for godsakes

[Raskolnikov]

rask has been mostly ignoring shade until people started staring his way.

Funny enough it's actually the other way around, I looked at him earlier back before any of this and have been ignoring him since in my preoccupation.

Not sure how you get this conclusion if you actually look at the timestamps.

[Raskolnikov]

In the end, all I really can do is show you is why and specifically how your arguments are wrong, because I know they're wrong at the end the break in the chain along the way is generally easy to find.

If I succeed, and you then want to then go ahead and say "well you're technically right but I still have a terrible feeling about you and it'll never go away" then I can't help that, but alas.

[Raskolnikov]

i think its funny how he considered l-2 a lot of pressure but thought nothing of putting tb on l-1,

No, putting tb up was also a lot of pressure, both are. As I said, I also wagon and lynch people but don't like it happening to me. Not clear what the contradiction is, unless you think people are supposed to behave like robots or something.

[Raskolnikov]

I probably overreacted a bit because I was busy going into my reads and it's like each time I looked I saw

1. first matt come out as he did and put me as top scumread
2. then -grey- pop in and say similar and that he'd l-1 eventually

it looked like a pretty extreme sudden turn of events at least in my pov, tbh

[Raskolnikov]

no, i think youre dodging the point. not liking pressure to you is scummy. you treated tb's reaction as def scum. said there was no pro-town reason for it and implied it was unlikely he had any good argument in favor of it.

so why, when we apply that reasoning to you, is it somehow different?

I didn't say he was scum for overreacting to the l-1, though. I know most players wouldn't claim there (you can ask creature or giga) and even just earlier I think there was a message about not claiming until intent so I was surprised he claimed and I kind of wasn't sure what to make of it, you can go back and read what I said there in context.

In truth my scumread is probably closer to that he actually underreacted, as I think it's scummy he kept on lurking even after experiencing that wagon and pressure (i.e. he was voted like I was, but barely had anything to say about it and didn't start giving reads or like analysis). Something like that is supposed to shock you and wake you up a bit if you're town and not really how thinkbig handled it overall.

[Raskolnikov]

im feeling the same way about the defense dismissal. i also agree with mbg that 8 days is good time to keep up the scumhunting. rask is just like, digging this giant hole atm, not accepting pro-town advice early and its hurting him now on top of everything else. i think that wagon isnt at risk of losing momentum when the time comes and we can focus on finding scumbuddies. ill let you guys direct that tho because i dont mind giving rask more airtime to bury himself atm

Are you 100% saying you're not going to reconsider trying to lynch me today?

[Raskolnikov]

well I've already put way more time into this today than I intended.

if I hear people say they'll have an open mind it gives me some hope at least.

"good" night >__>

[Raskolnikov]

Okay fuck you.

I'm tracker.

Stop wasting your time idiots.

[Raskolnikov]

I don't want the whole day to be spent circlejerking about me and my "partners" and then probably when it gets to a critical point people don't even believe me.

[Raskolnikov]

Now I'm actually going to lurk and be lazy like before again so enjoy

[Raskolnikov]

Fuck you too. "Top townread" and you don't defend me at all, don't see you anywhere and you appear the moment I claim.

[Raskolnikov]

on the flipside maybe you could explain why gayreen's near-confirmed town to you like in one of those big posts.

[Raskolnikov]

LOL

[Raskolnikov]

I guess you could say

people who live in glass houses

shouldn't throw stones

[Raskolnikov]

-gray- if you're town cass is the wrong direction though

I absolutely love seeing her experience the exact same kind of frustration I did at her hands (does that make me a bad person?)

but I think she has to be confbiasing/tunnely town through sheer amount of being that heavily invested in what she does

[Raskolnikov]

it's like if you had a titus that used conventional methods instead of VCA

[Raskolnikov]

but I think she has to be confbiasing/tunnely town through sheer amount of being that heavily invested in what she does

This is fallacious, btw.

Effort is not indicative of alignment.

Not so much the effort as the conviction.

[Raskolnikov]

Well the efforts part of it too, I guess, if it was less you could maybe handwave it. But if there's that much and it all points to her being invested into the game and actually believing the (often faulty) things she says, I'd assume most people incapable of that acting.

[Raskolnikov]

Maybe? If as scum I came into a game though and already got myself townread I wouldn't then put hours into megaposts and analysis on everyone, just kind of seems like madness.
There'd have to be some other motive I think. If I had to think of a conspiracy theory, the only thing I could maybe see anyone (who's in general already being townread) going this HAM for, would potentially be trying to divert from thinkbig, given he's been in a bad spot this entire time so the pressure/motivation wouldn't be off while he's still a wagon. But I've never seen someone fake passionate/powerplay to the extent she'd have to be.

[Raskolnikov]

If I wasn't outted I'd be calling for thinkbig to be lynched right about now so the game could just move on already. Not even that sure on him but a slot like that has to die, if town should've replaced out ages ago.

But as is I guess holding steady until near-deadline and hoping things clear up by then is the only option.

[Raskolnikov]

Wouldn't mind seeing cass claim.

[Raskolnikov]

Also, everyone should confirm they are in fact not counterclaiming my role, I don't want any shenanigans later today or d3.

[Raskolnikov]

That's a weird way of saying it

[Raskolnikov]

If there's a counterclaim to GBT they should claim now.

UNVOTE:

Is this rolefishing?

[Raskolnikov]

Is there any particular reason you voted cass rather than GBT?

[Raskolnikov]

Or just because she already had a vote on?

[Raskolnikov]

An interesting story.

[Raskolnikov]

GBT is like 85% scum.

And what is the remaining 15% ?

[Raskolnikov]

What if scum didn't shoot Raskol but instead shot their PR read and they were 1-Shot BP?
Then GBT would be free to bus without worrying about a confirmed clear, and I'm pretty sure she would expect to be able to win the 1v1 citing my bussing meta and probably not get lynched after me.

My issue rn is that I don't see why scum Gigabyte busses in this situation rather than search out the PR if they targeted Raskol like they should have.

No one respond to this theory.

[Raskolnikov]

You feel awfully rolefishy today.

[Raskolnikov]

I don't think that Cass/GBT are scumbuddies atm.

Really?

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: cass

[Raskolnikov]

UNVOTE:

Why lie cass?

[Raskolnikov]

No one else comment.

[Raskolnikov]

alright, cass checks out.

At least, as far as I can tell. She wasn't who I checked.

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Grey

Why did you feel so happy voting with your scumreads?

[Raskolnikov]

Why don't you remind me why you changed your mind.

[Raskolnikov]

I'd want to think that if cass was paired with anyone but a newbie she'd know enough about how counterclaims work to feel very ridiculous in her push. But I suppose that isn't an entirely safe assumption either.

[Raskolnikov]

Gigabyte top picks for scum?

[Raskolnikov]

It's really a pity RC only had that cass vote for a couple minutes, so I couldn't see if grey or anyone else would have hopped on or not.

[Raskolnikov]

I think it's really out of character for Grey to push Cass as hard as they did yesterday and to accept a compromise wagon.

Is this a fair assessment when there was no one else willing? Actually, if I were scum and there was no one else willing to lynch my partner, I would feel extra safe to just keep pushing them.

[Raskolnikov]

See schadd online. Hi Schadd!

[Raskolnikov]

Everyone's posted.

@Cass how do you feel now that I'm confirmed town?

[Raskolnikov]

Do you know how matrix6 works?

Where's IC when you need them.

[Raskolnikov]

Also very good points schadd.

[Raskolnikov]

Cass already claimed, I'd take her out of hammer range for now.

[Raskolnikov]

i know precisely how it works rask, i get it. its like someone claims cop in a fixed setup with one cop and no one counterclaims. i get the picture. im really, really confident of that read though. even though theres literally no point in it. can we drop it? like, for real. im never going to vote your slot anyway, its essentialyl semantics

p-edit yeah i know, i get it lol

Well, it's very important you approach the game with a clear head.

We wouldn't want any confusion. Any misunderstandings.

[Raskolnikov]

I think it's quite useful to get misconceptions out of the way before moving on, wouldn't you think?

[Raskolnikov]

Yeah I've been wondering about giga-schadd for a while now.

[Raskolnikov]

Oh whoops, too soon.

[Raskolnikov]

If there's a BP in the game they should probably claim, though.

[Raskolnikov]

Actually that could wait a bit I guess.

[Raskolnikov]

Me and my big mouth...

[Raskolnikov]

Good night everyone.

[Raskolnikov]

Oh yeah, unvote cass from l-1.

I don't want the day accidentally ending any time soon.

[Raskolnikov]

Huh, I thought you were already gone giga.

G'night!

[Raskolnikov]

you gave him what?

[Raskolnikov]

I did some digging and it would be insanely uncharacteristic of Grey to replace in and hard bus a scumbuddy.

How much digging?

[Raskolnikov]

Did you dig past november 26?

[Raskolnikov]

Oh yeah, if there's a BP they should claim.

[Raskolnikov]

What a tough game.

[Raskolnikov]

I am 100% positive that Schadd is town here and I have only once been wrong on a townread of this nature and it was on someone who basically stalked my mafia play for months to understand how to beat me. Raskol is confirmed. Mattblack is probably town.

How do you townread schadd more than matt?

[Raskolnikov]

Is that because you're scum creature?

[Raskolnikov]

You brought it up way too early...

[Raskolnikov]

He's played with me before and he knows I would be interested in sorting him at the beginning so him putting a bit of effort there to fool me is reasonable

The game I played where he was scum he did enough to make him not a d1 thing and then killed me n1

[Raskolnikov]

well you know what they say everybody lies right

[Raskolnikov]

but anyways

[Raskolnikov]

woah woah

why build a case if you aren't sure who the scum is?

[Raskolnikov]

lol

[Raskolnikov]

grey who is cass partner?

[Raskolnikov]

lets assume for a moment im town (because well). point me at an ISO here, because ive been reading all of them over and over in circles for ages now and i am out of ideas. i need a fresh perspective or at least an impetus, something

id rather not go down with my last words being "well, i think schadd_ might be scum but other than that i got nothing guys"

find grey's partner

[Raskolnikov]

lets assume for a moment im town (because well). point me at an ISO here, because ive been reading all of them over and over in circles for ages now and i am out of ideas. i need a fresh perspective or at least an impetus, something

id rather not go down with my last words being "well, i think schadd_ might be scum but other than that i got nothing guys"

find grey's partner

[Raskolnikov]

I did some digging and it would be insanely uncharacteristic of Grey to replace in and hard bus a scumbuddy.

So what would be characteristic?
Even though you can't bring up examples, you could still summarize it right?

[Raskolnikov]

lol if we lynched rc solely for having that title he probably quits playing again

[Raskolnikov]

giga talk more about that rc/cass thingo you apparently think is scum

[Raskolnikov]

We could find out.

[Raskolnikov]

cassiopeia who should i lynch instead of you

[Raskolnikov]

that requires a casielle lynch and a casielle scumflip

like it's the scumflip i'm the most confident on atm but i actually want to like

re-evaluate

well let me know when you do that

we have 12 days

[Raskolnikov]

cass where did you play before again?

[Raskolnikov]

im not so sure on my schadd read myself anymore tbh

[Raskolnikov]

it's okay I'm probably going to lynch someone else

[Raskolnikov]

i cant see gbT in either town or scum

schroedinger alignment atm for me, theres a lot of townposts but i do not understand this schadd_ townread its inexplicable to me and the idea of radiant as scum is looking less and less likely as time wears on

i disagree with the reads radiant has but they were seeing the same exact issues i am with the gamestate before p much anyone else recognized there was a /problem/ with their approach

@rask: seriously tho if youre weakening your read on emotional grounds dont bother im not emotional about being scumread or having a looming hammer

i just know i have no defense left to give and so i dont see a way out of a ml here, and i do know that the townies on my wagon will at least get a fire under their ass when they see me flip green, so im ok with being a d2 ml. it helps my wincon because my critics have to reread my ISO from a town perspective

okay now you're taking it too far

you know you only have like 2 votes on you right?

[Raskolnikov]

I did some digging and it would be insanely uncharacteristic of Grey to replace in and hard bus a scumbuddy.

So what would be characteristic?
Even though you can't bring up examples, you could still summarize it right?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz