Micro 687: Vanilluxe Mafia - Mafia Victory!!!

[SweetBlueFlowers]

I'm not particularly enchanted by Cain's anti-town opening or their apparent discontentment with my vote. I haven't seen anything from the slot that would warrant me unvoting. For those who asked, I did not enter RVS.

My gender is female.

[Aristophanes]

It's no Pagetop, but it will have to do.

VC 1.5

SweetBlueFlowers

(2): Eddie Cane 122, GuiltyLion 169

Eddie Cane

(2): SweetBlueFlowers 19, Fro99er 178

GuiltyLion

(1): Sobolev Space 9

Bellaphant

(1): Lowell 114

Fro99er

(1): Bellaphant 5

borkjerfkin

(1): TTTT 7

Not Voting

(1): borkjerfkin 49

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.
Day one ends March 4th at 1pm EST, or in (expired on 2017-03-04 13:00:00)

Mod Notes:
Lowell is V/LA until Thursday

Quoted for pagetop!

[Aristophanes]

Dammit!

[TTTT]

VOTE: eddie
someone should add another vote and make this L-1

[Lowell]

The eddie wagon is bad and you should feel bad.

eddie and TTTT are the only strong town reads for me at teh moment. bork is close.

froggy wants a vote, so let's have at it.

VOTE: froggy

His case against eddie is based on some incredibly weak logic, and looks like he just picked a random easy target and reverse-engineered some dumb meta shit. I don't want to be that guy rushing to whiteknight eddie, but yeah it has come to that. froggy needs to go.

[TTTT]

The eddie wagon is bad and you should feel bad.

i have reasons

[Lowell]

Awesome. I feel better now.

[Eddie Cane]

I'm not particularly enchanted by Cain's anti-town opening or their apparent discontentment with my vote. I haven't seen anything from the slot that would warrant me unvoting. For those who asked, I did not enter RVS.

My gender is female.

lol

my anti town opening of naked voting myself?

I'm not particularly enchanted by your third post in the game being bad and the other 2 being worse.

I am keeping my vote here.

[GuiltyLion]

{bork,

TTTT

}
{

lowell

, eddie}
{SS, bella}
{fro99er}
{SBF}

I'd like to pick your brain about the bolded

specifically I don't think TTTT has done really anything but throw out some vaguely reasoned townreads and asked a couple questions; was surprised to see him on your top tier
lowell I just don't really have a good handle on; I find him opaque and don't empathize with the reasoning behind most of his reads

so I don't really expect everyone else to agree with me on this, but 150 rang town for me for a few reasons:
- the strong SS townread seems unnatural to come from scum - I don't think SS has done anything especially obvtown this game to force a TR, and I would expect scum to try to keep her mislynchable if she's town. I also don't see much of an incentive for a scum!TTTT to try to defend/TR a town!SS here either because she's also not receiving a lot of attention/wagon pressure. Basically, I don't think it's an angle that scum!TTTT would have taken with his reads here, especially this early.
- he mentions being "nervous" about fro99er which I imagine is coming from the same suspicion/issues I had with his posts, before I had come to the thread to bring those up
- he actually doesn't give a read on you when he answered the question. I think someone operating from a scum mindset would be more likely to throw in a read on the person questioning them, instead it reads to me like he's in a mindset of genuinely giving you info to work with.

Lowell I wouldn't say I have a good handle on either, just mostly feels like he's legitimately trying to game-solve. I'd say him reversing his read on you from 65 to 114 is the thing that vibes town to me the most, but it's definitely a weaker read.

[GuiltyLion]

On a more serious note, I've skimmed through Frog's iso in a couple other games and I'm not seeing this as scum. His play in Mini 1734 (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=63822) reminds me a lot of his this game (although I haven't read it too in depth). Null for now.

what specifically about his play in that game reminds you of this game? What other games did you skim? And why go through the motion of explaining this just to shelve him at a nullread?

[GuiltyLion]

I will say that the reasoning for my TR on TTTT is dependent on SS actually being town. A SS scumflip would swing me to taking a harder look at TTTT again. Eddie asked him about why he was townreading SS, I'd like to see him answer that

[GuiltyLion]

also in thinking about it more I feel this setup incentivizes scum to either lay the foundation for a strong and consistent TR on their partner on D3 or bus them prior to D3, so I guess we should all be on the look out for that

[Eddie Cane]

{bork,

TTTT

}
{

lowell

, eddie}
{SS, bella}
{fro99er}
{SBF}

I'd like to pick your brain about the bolded

specifically I don't think TTTT has done really anything but throw out some vaguely reasoned townreads and asked a couple questions; was surprised to see him on your top tier
lowell I just don't really have a good handle on; I find him opaque and don't empathize with the reasoning behind most of his reads

so I don't really expect everyone else to agree with me on this, but 150 rang town for me for a few reasons:
- the strong SS townread seems unnatural to come from scum - I don't think SS has done anything especially obvtown this game to force a TR, and I would expect scum to try to keep her mislynchable if she's town. I also don't see much of an incentive for a scum!TTTT to try to defend/TR a town!SS here either because she's also not receiving a lot of attention/wagon pressure. Basically, I don't think it's an angle that scum!TTTT would have taken with his reads here, especially this early.
- he mentions being "nervous" about fro99er which I imagine is coming from the same suspicion/issues I had with his posts, before I had come to the thread to bring those up
- he actually doesn't give a read on you when he answered the question. I think someone operating from a scum mindset would be more likely to throw in a read on the person questioning them, instead it reads to me like he's in a mindset of genuinely giving you info to work with.

Lowell I wouldn't say I have a good handle on either, just mostly feels like he's legitimately trying to game-solve. I'd say him reversing his read on you from 65 to 114 is the thing that vibes town to me the most, but it's definitely a weaker read.

obviously both alignments do it - i do it - but I typically see scum being the ones to call someone town out of seemingly nothing. it gets that person on their side, while seemingly looking townie for directing the lynch strongly away from someone. I'm neutral on tttt, but I disagree with that being a good reason to town read someone.

[GuiltyLion]

obviously both alignments do it - i do it - but I typically see scum being the ones to call someone town out of seemingly nothing. it gets that person on their side, while seemingly looking townie for directing the lynch strongly away from someone. I'm neutral on tttt, but I disagree with that being a good reason to town read someone.

see I generally agree with this, but I don't think SS would be the townie that TTTT would do that with. She's been pretty low key and under the radar. There's no lynch to strongly direct away, and there's no massive SS presence that needs to be buddied/pocketed/townread.

[Eddie Cane]

ss is a newer player which makes them a good target. someone said it wrt you earlier but idr who. however, your point is reasonable otherwise.

[Bellaphant]

Okay, catching up.


also, my ears are burning :S

i still don't think we're understanding each other.

i'm literally saying that whole sequence looks weird af betwen scum buddies. that's it.

bella walk me through it like i'm five.

why is that weird af between scumbuddies? Because I think it's possibly a buddy reaction (I don't know that I've read more from bork and GL but more on that in a minute), but I'm wondering how you just jumped to the conclusions they aren't

scum together

because of that interaction.

EBWOP

gl's initial posting, like 36, actually seems kinda towny, and I can't see the scum motivation for bork pushing back at it in 38 3946. It then gets cleared up - The whole thing also blows over by the end of the page. if it was scum/scum distancing, i think other things would've been picked up on more. - and left with more of an obvious 'i will believe you for now but....', rather than the dropped vote and 'ah, right'. the whole thing looks like a 'noise' and a misunderstanding - can't see the motivation for it as scum partner interactions. I also can't see why ss would involve herself in the conversation if she was scum with either - it's tieing her to them in a way that isn't needed, but she does seem to want to clarify and stablise the conversation. I also don't think this was a wild conclusion to jump to.

Lowell why'd you vote bella instead of me or GL?

seee, tonally I liked Lowell for town, but his post with his vote for me in it didn't look like it should end with a vote for me. but

VOTE: bella

Kara! Good to see you again. Sorry you flipped red this time.

is super tonally weird - kara is a reference to a recent survivor game, and i'd expect it to be an rvs reference, but then 'i flipped red'. ugh.

Now that I reread it, the second sentence looks like trying to keep suspicion on. The first sentence also kinda looks like GL read into what Bork was trying to get at and answered accordingly.

It is absolutely meant to keep suspicion on. I didn't like the naked vote and I didn't like her response to me, I see no reason to townread SBF yet. This thought from you feels intellectually lazy, as if you're operating from a framework where casting suspicion on anyone is automatically scummy.

I think Fro99er has shown he is the opposite of intellectually lazy - I want to come back to a poost from him in a second. Can you expand a little on your last sentence?

The eddie wagon is bad and you should feel bad.

eddie and TTTT are the only strong town reads for me at teh moment. bork is close.

froggy wants a vote, so let's have at it.

VOTE: froggy

His case against eddie is based on some incredibly weak logic, and looks like he just picked a random easy target and reverse-engineered some dumb meta shit. I don't want to be that guy rushing to whiteknight eddie, but yeah it has come to that. froggy needs to go.

Talk to me about white knighting? Why are your two town reads that strong? I mean, I'm not seeing any compelling reason to town read eddie hard at all.

I will say that the reasoning for my TR on TTTT is dependent on SS actually being town. A SS scumflip would swing me to taking a harder look at TTTT again. Eddie asked him about why he was townreading SS, I'd like to see him answer that

ummm say what about pre-associatives before a flip? Can you explain this a little?

[Bellaphant]

Why is everyone saying I'm making them nervous but nobody is voting me?

Because it's going to be a whole goddam thing. I'll do it when I'm ready.

@bork- my post was more or less "things that caught my eye while reading." And yes, you're a try-hard.

I don't remember who posted this first, but I now agree, SS is probably town. In ISO he looks okay.

then vote me, not sbf

Here's some wifom, but why would I push bella if I were scum? It does me no good to push her when I know she's going to initially be paranoid of me as town (because she always is when she's town). Especially after the only other time I rolled scum while bella was town was the very first time I played with her, and I pushed her there. My best play as scum is to buddy her, make her feel comfortable with me, and go from there. It does a scum version of me no good to push bella here at this stage of the game.


Also, why are you townreading eddie? I don't really see a reason to townread him yet.

seee, you are too clever by half. The only other time you've pushed me for shitty reasons is when you were scum and I spent the game miserable and not confident in my reads. But. I also don't think your meta on me as 'doesn't know anything/say anything' as town is kinda insulting - we both had two scum on day 1 and i went into night 2 knowing where my vote was going day three...

anyway. i'm town. lowell is confusing af, bork is town, gl might be town. come talk to me.

[TTTT]

Eddie asked him about why he was townreading SS, I'd like to see him answer that

I like these posts:
35
47
54
109
112

[Bellaphant]

UNVOTE:

[Sobolev Space]

what specifically about his play in that game reminds you of this game?

His focus on meta reads and (to a lesser degree) wifom.

What other games did you skim?

Micro 554 and Micro 494

And why go through the motion of explaining this just to shelve him at a nullread?

Because it was information that contributed to my read on him?

[Sobolev Space]

@Lowell -

What is going on between me and GL?

Additionally, why the townlean on TTTT? There's not much to go on but that would make him null for me.

I think the sentiment expressed in 112 comes from town; lowell why do you call it twitchy?

[Sobolev Space]

@Lowell -

@Lowell - what caused the change in your read on me from 114 to now?

[Sobolev Space]

GL's last few posts are atrocious.

[Bellaphant]

GL's last few posts are atrocious.

yup

[Aristophanes]

Pagetop?