Newbie 1779 | Spring | Endgame

[PenguinPower]

Vote Count 1.05

mastina

(3): mhsmith0, oldwino, DogWatch

oldwino

(2): aa-dono, mastina

RadiantCowbells

(1): -Grey-

-Grey-

(1): RadiantCowbells

Not Voting

: JustDanceWorld, Ulti
With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2017-03-15 06:05:00)

[-Grey-]

@mastina
are you suggesting oldwino's vote was merely an OMGUS? and if so, is that necessarily a scum read?

If OMGUS is the gold standard of scumtells, that's all the more reason to lynch RC.

OMGUS is the shit standard of scumtells. OMGUS is natural and normal for town, especially town who feel like the push on them is bullshit (and you of all people should should be cautious of scumreading RC for OMGUS'ing you, unless I'm just totally misremembering how things went between you two in 1770). A newbie player engaging in it MIGHT be a bit of a town lean for it, and an experienced player engaging in it is basically null for the exercise for the most part.

How could you not tell I was being sarcastic?

[mhsmith0]

How could you not tell I was being sarcastic?

Well given that it happened in the context of you voting and pushing RC, I don't especially see why it should be considered obvious sarcasm. emoticons are also helpful if you want to make sure everyone understands when you're being sarcastic as well.

[-Grey-]

How could you not tell I was being sarcastic?

Well given that it happened in the context of you voting and pushing RC, I don't especially see why it should be considered obvious sarcasm. emoticons are also helpful if you want to make sure everyone understands when you're being sarcastic as well.

My post wasn't about RC, RC was incidental.

The post was about scumtells.

[mhsmith0]

My post wasn't about RC, RC was incidental.

The post was about scumtells.

And in today's lesson, we discover that sarcasm is often difficult to detect through text on the internet

[-Grey-]

My post wasn't about RC, RC was incidental.

The post was about scumtells.

And in today's lesson, we discover that sarcasm is often difficult to detect through text on the internet

Not if that text is taken in context.

[mhsmith0]

Not if that text is taken in context.

It looked like the context was your overall push on RC (consistent with posts previous and subsequent), in which case it looked like an attempt to push more votes that way. In the context of that reasonable interpretation of what was going on, what exactly is the issue w my response? Is it just that you don't understand why i didn't see your sarcasm?

[-Grey-]

Not if that text is taken in context.

It looked like the context was your overall push on RC (consistent with posts previous and subsequent), in which case it looked like an attempt to push more votes that way. In the context of that reasonable interpretation of what was going on, what exactly is the issue w my response? Is it just that you don't understand why i didn't see your sarcasm?

The content of my post was entirely about the legitimacy of the tell in question.

There was no actual push in that post, outside of the anecdotal evidence that RC OMGUSed me and should enjoy more votes if one believed such a thing to be indicative of scum.

I'm picking at this because I believe you are a player that pays attention to details and would not miss out on the subtle difference between trolling a godawful scumtell assumption and campaigning for a lynch using said godawful scumtell.

[mhsmith0]

Well, all I can say is that I reacted to the context and missed your intended sarcasm. I guess I can buy that you were sarcastic there, but I don't buy that your sarcasm was extremely obvious or that it should be surprising that I missed your intention there. I guess the most productive way to figure out if this is a "it's really weird that smith missed this" sort of thing is to ask everyone else if it seems obvious that your post was sarcastic. Anyone want to weigh in?

As a reminder,

@mastina
are you suggesting oldwino's vote was merely an OMGUS? and if so, is that necessarily a scum read?

If OMGUS is the gold standard of scumtells, that's all the more reason to lynch RC.

was the original post in question.

[-Grey-]

(Anyone that reads that post as being remotely serious needs a colonic)

[mhsmith0]

[-Grey-]

On second thought, I'll take one too.

[oldwino]

Just a quick post soon after signing on.

Since there seems to be a consensus that we claim Not bp or otherwise,

I am NOT bp. I attempted to soft-claimed before, very softly in 26 and a little stronger in 44. Never tried a soft claim before, as this is only my 2nd game and I was VT in my first game, and there was not much point in soft claiming that, at least in that game.

Guess these attempts, in 26 and 44, were REALLY soft.

Now, who hasn't claimed yet?

Will do more thorough reading and post again this later morning.

[DogWatch]

What is lynch bait?

A player who plays in a way that makes everyone (or at least a bunch of people) want to lynch him/her.

I always took "lynchbait" to mean a scapegoat the mafia is trying to push everyone else to lynch, or at least a lesser skilled player that is often known for being in such a position. Is that not necessarily accurate?

[DogWatch]

And in that fight, I like your responses; I don't hate Grey's responses; I do have a distaste for oldwino and DogWatch's responses.

Agreed on RC's responses, I'm much less certain on Grey, and you're really gonna have to explain what in particular OW/DW are doing to ping you there. I can maybe see the idea that OW was sitting out the fight as scum (though I don't especially see how you distinguish that from newb town who doesn't know what to do in that kind of situation), but you haven't discussed your DW read at all other than stating that it exists, and nothing in her responses seems to ping me.

I also thought it was odd that mastina acknowledges the RC/Grey battle as the main attraction of the thread so far, yet she chooses to scum read two people on the sidelines of that battle instead. Now, that's not necessarily contradictory; she could be viewing RC vs Grey as town vs town, but how she's gleaming scum reads from the sidelines I don't know. She seems to be working off pure hunch, which again doesn't seem like she's setting a great example.

I have generally liked and agreed with smith's posts so far. Townreading him. I see him making fair and pro-town observations.

[-Grey-]

Now, that's not necessarily contradictory; she could be viewing RC vs Grey as town vs town, but how she's gleaming scum reads from the sidelines I don't know.

The only way scum couldn't be on the sidelines is if Smith and I are both scum.

If either, or both, of us are town, it is easy to come to the conclusion that scum could be fueling the flames.

[mhsmith0]

What is lynch bait?

A player who plays in a way that makes everyone (or at least a bunch of people) want to lynch him/her.

I always took "lynchbait" to mean a scapegoat the mafia is trying to push everyone else to lynch, or at least

a lesser skilled player that is often known for being in such a position

. Is that not necessarily accurate?

The latter, more or less (though I'd note that it specifically refers to a townie, as scum aren't bait, they're just scum). There's always gonna be someone (or multiple someones) that the mafia are going to try and get mislynched; lynchbaits are people who are playing badly enough that scum don't have to really do much work to make their lynch happen (or, to use it as an adjective of a player, they're players who fall into this position a lot).

I'll actually excerpt from my standard IC post on the subject a bit more, since it seems to be relevant (note that I actually do IC sometimes, I'm just not doing it this game)

Spoiler: Bad Posting vs Scum Posting

In a lot of games you can see people posting badly, whether it means lurking, saying really stupid things, being intellectually lazy about their engagement, or all sorts of other pretty transparently anti-town behaviors.
And, unfortunately, a lot of the time (though NOT always) really bad posting is done by townies instead of mafia. Sorting between “bad” and “scum” is one of the hardest things to do in the game, but it’s a tremendously important part of your development if you want to get good at scum-hunting.

Consider a few examples:
Example #1
http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/thr ... post722301

I'm back on but won't be very active until up to 3 hours before EoD because I'm going to an early fireworks event for Bonfire Night.

http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/thr ... post722309

I'm showcasing my lynchbait status the way a peacock showcases their feathers. I make awful posts day after day, daring you to lynch me.

I fixed your typos.

http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/thr ... post722312

Scum is not as demonstratably awful as sociopath.

In that game, both lulz and sociopath were town. Sociopath got mislynched essentially for making a parade of terrible posts (the cited post was just one of many), which is a fairly predictable outcome of that behavior. But it’s notable that she wasn’t actually mafia.

Example #2

DS is a mild scum read for me at this point. Not a huge priority sort but I don't see the obv!town there. MoZ just seems bad rather than obv!wolf to me, and the IMO self-vote continues along that vein. Some of that may simply be me being over-sensitive to that after watching Ranger pull similar shit as town in open 642 (including the shitty self-vote), but I'm starting to come around the idea that shit like that actually does come more often from town, even though it never ever ever should. In this case, it's conceivable that they're scum/SK giving up, but it's also plausible that they're town giving up. I know Ircher (who I think was making those posts) is bugged by being a lynchbait type, so I can reasonably see him getting pissy and pulling a stunt like that out of frustration at being wagoned. Obviously it could be him pulling a scam and faking it, but I just don't see why it's wolf-indicative instead of essentially null. I'd still much rather wagon RachMarie at this point.

@ Rach...

Why are we giving a pass to MoZ

I just read his ISO

VOTE: MoZ

This is the sort of thing that normally comes with something better than "their ISO sucks". What about their ISO sucks? You seem to not really be able to explain what exactly you're finding voteable.
You talk a bit about it in

@ Nacho
1. The way they are moving their vote around looks like they are looking for a good wagon, not looking for scumz
2. The freaky color vote thing looked like they were trying to appear to be town and trolling, it did not feel genuine the way Nero's trolling does,
3. The way they threw shade on KTS but did not vote for him seems scummy AF

but
1) you aren't addressing the possibility that moving their vote around might be part of a process to look for a good wolf wagon, or for that matter, separating them from anyone else's vote hopping.
2) The "freaky color vote thing" ( http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8421517 ) seems like the epitome of a playstyle thing; calling it AI just seems bizarre;
3) I presume you mean this

...
This totally not troll KTS we're seeing here. He's actually being useful for once, but I fear that is because he is scum.....
~Zanos ~Zanos ~Zanos

but I fail to see how this is AI. It's essentially expressing a mild scum read on the slot; failing to vote for what is presented as a mild scum read (and one that is essentially paranoia-driven) is not in and of itself suspicious

Frankly, none of those seem like particularly good reasons for voting them; to me it seems a lot more like you're going survivalistic and looking for an easy target to try and buy another day off of.

It is a tentative read so far but feel like KTS could be town he is already invested enough to get ticked off at the hyperposters and that means he is genuinely trying to sort shit out.

It is a tentative read so far but feel like Rach could be scum she isn't invested enough to make real reads and just drops off a lazy kts town read and that means she isn't genuinely trying to sort shit out.

VOTE: rachmarie

adding smith to my scum pile as well this pinged my scumdar this vote on me sucks, plus like MoZ she keeps flipping her vote around.

What about the vote sucks? Surely if you find my vote on you to be itself vote-worthy, you can actually explain what about it "sucks". I personally thought it to be a solid vote, mainly for the content (wolf-reading you becuase of the lazy read you made) but I also liked the snarky way I turned around your language relating to KTS. Nothing about it seems off, and it seems like you just want to shade it as somehow being a bad vote without actually doing the work to demonstrate that it's actually a bad vote.
I also don't see your point about vote-hopping (you were my 4th vote, with my 1st being a joke vote on the mod and the 2nd being near-RVS level). Nor do I see how vote-hopping is itself wolf-indicative, unless you think that I'm just lazily bandwagoning (which would be weird considering that I was the first vote on you), or that something else in particular about my vote movement seems wolfy. It seems like you're struggling to make a case on why your pushes make sense, which to me suggests that they're probably just made up.
PS I'm a he. You can see it right there in the box where my user info is.

In that game MoZ (Ircher/BTD hydra) was town, I was also town, and RachMarie was scum (bonus points: DS was also scum). What you can see in the quotes I made was
1) My sarcastic callout of her lazy pocketing read of KTS in my post #620
2) My pushing her on her inability to actually substantiate decent reasons for her reads, and the fact that she was pretty flagrantly pushing on MoZ for essentially being bad (which is largely null) and other null behaviors, in what was a survivalistic push to avoid her own lynch d1.
As it happened, MoZ got mislynched d1 (in a case that boiled down to “they suck”), but Rach was still scum, and she was the one actually being scummy and pushing an agenda, not MoZ. Again, if you look closely you can see the difference between simply being bad and actually being scum.

[mastina]

Rude.

But accurate for the time of the list, at the very least. (My townread on you is growing.)

[mastina]

However, I think Mastina's scum read on me, only because I commented on the back and forth, maybe some bad blood between rc and grey, is weak.

It's funny that you think that's the basis of my scumread on you--it's not.

[mastina]

Why is everyone's role displayed below their name? Doesn't that make this game really easy for town to win?

Huh.

Alts are banned from lying about being newbs and Ulti's a newb slot with no games outside this one. But I could've sworn this line was so much of an established in-joke that nobody actually new would ever say it. I didn't think that it actually happened.

[mastina]

@mastina you're scum reading me but you're not saying why. Throw me a bone here?

With respect, I prefer to wait until everyone has weighed in with opinions. And even then, to wait until everyone has weighed in to a satisfactory amount, as deemed so by me.

In particular, slots who need to weigh in?
Ulti, JustDanceWorld, mhsmith0, and aa-dono.

There's multiple reasons for this. Care to guess them?
And for that matter, care to guess

why

I am scumreading you?

[mastina]

I joined this game to take advantage of the coaching help, but so far (and I know it's super early) I'm baffled by the IC's posts. Unless this is her ploy to make us think on our feet, but I don't know if that's how she coaches. Either way I'm not very confident in her ability to help so far.
VOTE: mastina

Normally, I would respond to this with a heavy dosage of snark.
You're young to the site though, so I don't want to scare you away with that level of obstructionism (even though this is a fair warning, you're gonna need to get used to that), so instead I'll respond sincerely:

It would be helpful for you if you are town to reread my IC post, along with my answers.
It seems most players in this game utterly ignored them--understandable, given that RC and Grey were the center of attention at the time, and that my posts were walls.

But if you actually read those posts, it will help a lot.
If you still don't understand, reread them again.
Look

really

closely.
Scrutinize every detail I laid in there.

And then tell me what it is you see.

[mastina]

Y would i be familiar with her play i've played like 3 games with her

One would be enough.

[mastina]

out of curiosity, was this pre-written? Especially the RQS part?

Of course it was. This game is a trial run for me continuing to IC games, those two posts are what I intend to open every game with, and have my third post onward be modifications as necessary (for instance, this game having a higher-than-standard level of experience).

That said, I take offense to the label of RQS. The questions I asked weren't random, nor something part of a stage. They were meant to give me a better grasp on the newbie players this game, as to better help coach them, which is one reason why I'm honestly a bit miffed that they were all passed over. It makes my job harder.

[-Grey-]

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