Newbie 1779 | Spring | Endgame

[PenguinPower]

JustDanceWorld failed to respond to his prod and is being replaced. If he returns before a replacement is found, he may continue to play.

[oldwino]

I wonder if JDW lost interest after being 'pressured' into claiming BP early in the game? No need to defend yourself or be careful about what you say, or how you say it after claiming a rather safe role early on. Of course you could also attack, looking for scum, without any immediate repercussions. Maybe a double-edged sword. Safe but boring. Maybe that really took of fun out of the game for JDW.
If I were forced into claiming BP early on D1, I might have lost interest also.

@JDW, if you are still around, did claiming BP early have an effect on your interest in the game?

@RC, this might be something to pay attention to in other games. Unanticipated consequences.

[-Grey-]

He wasn't

forced

to do anything.

He weighed his options and made a choice.

Personal responsibility exists. Society has been working diligently to drive it to extinction, but hasn't been successful... yet.

[mhsmith0]

Otoh jdw zero content ISO would potentially have made him a pretty viable d1 wagon, so in that regard the claim was helpful. I suspect he's in general a very low content player, and I'm skeptical that his claim here impacted things meaningfully.

[RadiantCowbells]

Zzzzzzzzz

[mhsmith0]

Also, there are assumptions in your post that you missed. Quite a few, actually.

Well I made a good faith effort at the exercise. If you care enough to make a meaningful discussion point of it, explain what you think I missed.

[mhsmith0]

I was well aware of this, the difference being:
I have a style emphasizing a lack of explanation.
To my knowledge, you lack this.
In a position as a teacher, I have extra incentive beyond the normal to hold back on certain stuff.
As an SE you have self-admitted you are in no such position.
As a result, I am indeed holding you to a different stance than I am holding myself to--from you, I expect explanations; from me, explanations aren't expected until an appropriate time (potentially as late as postgame, even!).

It's true that I don't have a style emphasizing a lack of explanation. It is ALSO true, however, that I have a style that emphasizes getting others to explain themselves. Indeed, I will at times put MORE emphasis on getting others to explain themselves than I do explaining my own self, which irritates people at times, see

since we're metadiving, lets metadive mhsmith0 as his play here doesn't match his town play nor his scum play

Go for it, my wiki is pretty up to date (iirc last update was like a week ago). Also, how am I different from each in your opinion?

you're analytical on both, not a question spammer

you know where that quote in smith's sig came from?
it was me. "KC" is "Kitten Chemist," my hydra with plotinus. it's from this game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=65913
he was a complete enigma for most of the game exactly because ALL HE DID WAS SPAM QUESTIONS. that's why i said "your give:take ratio needs some adjusting."
AND HE WAS TOWN

(and we were both town in that game as well )
So yeah, being intentionally opaque and witholding is not something I approve of. AT ALL. And I'm PRETTY sure you should be aware of this, since I remember us discussing open 642, a game in which I spent a long time raging about how useless the town was (not exactly the same issue but kind of related - I'd also probably separate out my town games into before open 642 and after open 642, since that horror of a game basically submarined my WIM and I've never really gotten it back to where it was beforehand even if it does show up at spurts).
But more to the point of this game, I don't consider it remotely acceptable to withold explanations indefinitely, ESPECIALLY doing so while demanding more clarity from others. And since you're citing being an IC as a reason to be LESS forthright, I'll cite the IC guidelines that you linked

The easiest way for newbies to learn is to watch good players playing at their best. Do not attempt to water down your game, or play any differently in terms of your objectives as you would in any other game. Make sure you're playing to win, and make sure you attack just as hard as you would in any other game. Do not attempt to coddle the newbies by playing down to their level, as that will not help them advance as players, and that's pretty much the point of the game.

So to the extent you're choosing to be less helpful than normal just becuase you're the IC, please stop doing that regardless of your alignment. "I won't bother explaining stuff until postgame" is completely unacceptable.

[mhsmith0]

I would like to note that mhsmith is doing something which I also noted from oldwino. The two of them, above all other players, are guilty of this cardinal sin. I'm not going to pull up a quote from either player to give an indication of what this is. But you might be able to guess--namely, by which posts of theirs I am

not

responding to.
Anyone care to guess what they have in common?

Apparently no one cares to guess (other than Grey). Very possibly because you've turned the board off of engaging with you due to the style you've chosen to embrace. Which is itself an interesting lesson for the newbies here, though I think not the one you intended to teach.

[mhsmith0]

...And what, perhaps, are you doing with those reads?
Keeping them to yourself is obvious enough, but I mean aside from that.

I'm keeping them to myself less than you might think; just because I didn't dump out reads lists doesn't mean that I've been closed with what I think, or that it's impossible to figure out what I'm thinking about people based on what I've been saying. If you require further clarification, substantive questions (like "what do you think about player X, because I don't understand where you are on him/her/it") would be more productive than your current approach.

[mhsmith0]

Yes. Explicitly.

Very explicitly.

Blatantly and unapologetically explicitly.

And I townread him for it.

btw, for the curious, this is probably about what I'd expect scum!grey to be doing for a buddy under pressure. I don't especially think grey is actually scum, but I'm noting it for possible future reference.

[mhsmith0]

I like Grey - Ulti interaction.

My summary of it is "Oh!"

VOTE: Ulti
@Ulti what do you think of Grey?

What do you mean by the bold/underlined bit? And why are you curious about Ulti's opinion of grey specifically?

[-Grey-]

Yes. Explicitly.

Very explicitly.

Blatantly and unapologetically explicitly.

And I townread him for it.

btw, for the curious, this is probably about what I'd expect scum!grey to be doing for a buddy under pressure. I don't especially think grey is actually scum, but I'm noting it for possible future reference.

Do go on.

Tell me more about my scum game. Like where you've ever seen it, for starters.

[mhsmith0]

Do go on.

Tell me more about my scum game. Like where you've ever seen it, for starters.

See

"-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour

and I'm pretty sure I've seen you make comments about your scum game being strongly in the "protect my buddy/buddies" elsewhere, though I don't really recall where in particular.

[-Grey-]

Do go on.

Tell me more about my scum game. Like where you've ever seen it, for starters.

See

"-grey- would hardclaim an inno on his obv-scum partner D2 in a micro if he could" - gigabyteTroubadour

and I'm pretty sure I've seen you make comments about your scum game being strongly in the "protect my buddy/buddies" elsewhere, though I don't really recall where in particular.

So you're just going to buy that without any attempt to individually confirm it?

I have a beach villa for sale in Arizona if you're in the market. Pacific Ocean right in your own back yard.

[-Grey-]

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=70094

I bussed the shit out of Not_Mafia.

[mhsmith0]

So you're just going to buy that without any attempt to individually confirm it?

I'm going to presume that a description of your meta that is strong enough to go into your signature, and which has been referenced elsewhere, is very probably true. OTOH, you think oldwino is town so it doesn't actually matter... right?

[-Grey-]

So you're just going to buy that without any attempt to individually confirm it?

I'm going to presume that a description of your meta that is strong enough to go into your signature, and which has been referenced elsewhere, is very probably true. OTOH, you think oldwino is town so it doesn't actually matter... right?

What makes you think any of this is about oldwino?

[mhsmith0]

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=70094

I bussed the shit out of Not_Mafia.

VC 2.LYNCH!

-Grey-

(5): BangTheMafia 958, Vaxkiller 970, Davesaz 972, Spade_Ace 973, -Grey- 975

Spade_Ace

(2): Alban 626, Not_Mafia 888

BangTheMafia

(1): Gamma Emerald 594

Not Voting

(1): Kop

With 9 Alive, it takes 5 to lynch

The day will end on February 14th, 2017 at 3 AM EST. (V-Day ♥)
(expired on 2017-02-14 02:00:00)

Mod Notes:

Nothing at this time!

(and were on BTM before that)

You had an early vote on him

I am town though so

Well shit man, why didn't you say so in the first place?!

I was busy talking about other people's alignments. Don't worry I got you covered now fam.

We ride together.
We die together.
Bad boys for life.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

and searching for "not_mafia" in your ISO makes him barely show up.

How did you "bus the hell out of him" exactly?

[mhsmith0]

What makes you think any of this is about oldwino?

well it was the source of your original comment. And your reaction to it suggests that the potential association bothers you for some reason.

[-Grey-]

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=70094

I bussed the shit out of Not_Mafia.

VC 2.LYNCH!

-Grey-

(5): BangTheMafia 958, Vaxkiller 970, Davesaz 972, Spade_Ace 973, -Grey- 975

Spade_Ace

(2): Alban 626, Not_Mafia 888

BangTheMafia

(1): Gamma Emerald 594

Not Voting

(1): Kop

With 9 Alive, it takes 5 to lynch

The day will end on February 14th, 2017 at 3 AM EST. (V-Day ♥)
(expired on 2017-02-14 02:00:00)

Mod Notes:

Nothing at this time!

(and were on BTM before that)

You had an early vote on him

I am town though so

Well shit man, why didn't you say so in the first place?!

I was busy talking about other people's alignments. Don't worry I got you covered now fam.

We ride together.
We die together.
Bad boys for life.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

and searching for "not_mafia" in your ISO makes him barely show up.

How did you "bus the hell out of him" exactly?

VOTE: mhsmith0

Wow dude.

VOTE: NM

Lynch scum and chew gum.

VC 3.2

Not_Mafia

(4):

Vaxkiller 1058, -Grey- 1170, Carnelian 1172, Not_Mafia 1176

Kop

(1): Alban 1056

Not Voting

(2): bangthemafia, Kop

With 7 Alive, it takes 4 to lynch

Not_Mafia will be lynched today.

[-Grey-]

What makes you think any of this is about oldwino?

well it was the source of your original comment. And your reaction to it suggests that the potential association bothers you for some reason.

Misrep.

You acting like you know something about my scum game when you have no experience with it bothers me for some reason.

[mhsmith0]

Misrep.

You acting like you know something about my scum game when you have no experience with it bothers me for some reason.

Why does that bother you? You're happy to openly proclaim yourself a non-busser; why is it odd that I'd take such a claim seriously? And what exactly did I misrep you on there?

[mhsmith0]

wrt 319, it's almost like I took a quick skim at VCs, saw you were lynched d2 (I guess you got rez'd then?), didn't bother to look after that, and then took a quick look at your ISO to see if there were a bunch of mentions (there weren't especially). How is any of that scummy?

[-Grey-]

Misrep.

You acting like you know something about my scum game when you have no experience with it bothers me for some reason.

Why does that bother you? You're happy to openly proclaim yourself a non-busser; why is it odd that I'd take such a claim seriously? And what exactly did I misrep you on there?

Smith> associative assumption based on uninformed opinion of meta

Me> question regarding knowledge of meta

Smith> admission of ignorance and doubling down on unfounded opinion; attempt to redirect to association to take focus off bad meta-based associative

That about sums it up.

[-Grey-]

wrt 319, it's almost like I took a quick skim at VCs, saw you were lynched d2 (I guess you got rez'd then?), didn't bother to look after that, and then took a quick look at your ISO to see if there were a bunch of mentions (there weren't especially). How is any of that scummy?

That's because I was town before I was lynched, and sum after.

My role is listed in the OP. Feign ignorance all you want, you have been around long enough to know how Judas works.