Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Gorkington]

LUV and Leonshade are scum.

lol
why

[nancy]

We absolutely need to lynch LUV today because not only is the slot very likely to be scum it's the linchpin of my reads and the first step to properly solving this game.

[Gorkington]

is your next post going to reveal that youve actually been scumreading me this whole time?
and this last page was just a joke?
lol

[nancy]

VOTE: Gorkington

nancy is giving me the heebie jeebies. No time to explain but Gork is also scum so....

my read on mathblade is pretty linked with my leonshade read.

i think the way his focus on me developed was potentially very opportunistic in terms of the timing of my focus going towards leonshade and the subsequent hardpush on me being scum, as well as the hesitance to actually commit to pushing there until the leonshade wagon was actually kind of failing.

i think one of the things i feel worst about with so many of these people who have called me scum is that SO SO SO many of them claimed i was obviously scum throughout my early play, but instead decided to focus elsewhere, especially while leonshade wagon was happening.

like, i just cant help but feel like some of it must have been opportunism.

i especially feel bad about math/leon pushes together because they use very very similar reasoning.
in a way that almost makes me feel like there was discussion on how to frame pushing me.

beyond that, i dont really see incredibly convincing reasoning for why leonshade has mathblade in his toptier and mathblade is constantly defending leonshade and calling him obvtown but doesnt seem to supply reasons while doing so while leonshade wagon is happening?
it just seems weird to me that he wouldnt try to convince people by saying actual reasons that he was scum vs just saying over and over again that hes town and trying to push nero who was clearly not going to happen? im just not sure if i see how that intention works.

with math theres also this really strange justification for scumreading me of "PV is scum and PV/Gork are scumbuddies"
and i just dont really get it?
like.
that was one of the first things that stood out to me this game.
that PV has like.. 200+ posts, ive only ever seen PVscum lurk and math is calling him scum?
ive asked for reasoning on this and i never got it.
and theres a lame part of me that feels like math is pushing me as an excuse to not have to rehash that [but thats probably not a good point zzz].

in terms of general thoughts on math im kind of confused as to why hes still alive?
scum grabbing vig to try and justify mathblade's claim being alive this game seems pretty plausible to me.
i havent really looked into what people have been talking about here so i would be interested in whether this was talked about at some point/if people could link me to where it was talked about so i dont waste too much time speccing over something thats probably already been talked about at some point.

in summary i just get bad vibes about the timing and justification of his scumread on me in terms of how it relates to leon who is really really likely scum and his PVread and justification of scumreading me via his PVread feels wonky and the role stuff kind of pings me too.

people townreading mathblade should talk to me like im 12 about it.

p-edit: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
please dont take the wind out of my sails just as im getting going.
at least not with generic shit like "your post sucks".
i dont think you understand how demotivating that in particular is for me.
please dont :/

Thank you, this is good posting.

[nancy]

is your next post going to reveal that youve actually been scumreading me this whole time?
and this last page was just a joke?
lol

No I think you're Town I'm just trying to keep you alive and people will jump on anything they can at this point as an excuse to lynch you.

[nancy]

like, at least engage me on it

what do you disagree with

I don't disagree with it Leonshade is just a low-hanging fruit and there's not a great deal of genuine gamesolving in it. Your follow-up post is excellent.

[Gorkington]

zzzzzz
im gonna go back to picking at my wagon.

[nancy]

MathBlade is Town for several reasons, one of the most obvious ones being the hydra dissonance between Math and Titus that went on early in the game and resulted in Titus leaving the hydra. It's possible that this would occur within a scum hydra but much less likely. The fact that they're still alive shouldn't be surprising because they generally aren't an early NK choice that I've seen.

pedit OK

[nancy]

Let me know if you need a sounding board for anything.

[Gorkington]

can you link me specific posts that you feel wouldnt be fakeable by them in terms of dissonance?

p-edit: ty, you honestly have no idea how much i appreciate it after feeling shut down so much

[nancy]

KidAmn might be scum.

pedit no individual posts so much as the idea that them faking hydra dissonance over a large span of time and then eventually Titus replacing out of the hydra simply to get townread is a bit of a stretch. The hydra dissonance could have come genuinely from a scum hydra so it isn't as though the whole thing locks them as Town, but I think it's slightly more likely that it comes from Town.

[nancy]

I'll go through the DEO ISO later and see what kind of a read I get off the slot.

[nancy]

I don't really know how to read Math but I can read Titus.

[Gorkington]

The fact that they're still alive shouldn't be surprising because they generally aren't an early NK choice that I've seen.

i more meant in terms there being some sentiment that they should be vigged in order to use their role.
im thinking about this more and im realizing that im definitely underthinking how that works between so many kill-stopping roles being in play/someone townreading them being incredibly unlikely to shoot them for utility/scum potentially trying to brew suspicion on him by sitting on the vig/potentially saving it for endgame if they have it.

p-edit: tyty.

[nancy]

If Notice is Town, though, I would sheep their TR of Math because those two have definite experience together. I just don't know whether or not Notice is Town.

pedit yeah.

[CloudKicker]

Nancy this is town paranoia and this is a correct vote. This is exactly the moment your reads arent making much sens and are rooted in emotions

[CloudKicker]

Alos to anyone who will eventually call nancy scum again just reread thoses pages

[CloudKicker]

@nancy if ou really want a vote outside then lets get leon, idc if its low hanging fruit its a mefia

[nancy]

Alos to anyone who will eventually call nancy scum again just reread thoses pages

The same should be said of Gork. You buddying up to me like this doesn't do wonders for my read of you, btw.

[MathBlade]

Explain to me why Gork is town when he makes up clear bullshit about me and can't be bothered to gender me correctly. I don't see it.

I am sick and tired of repeating myself and making cases that get ignored. I simply state my reads and that works better.

Gork's theory of scum grabbing vig he is pitching to try to make me sound scum versus believing it. If he was actually thinking and hunting he would say if scum picked up vig it would be for the extra kill. However what is probably more likely is that town picked up vig and scum probably picked up a doc. Only reason I can think of as to why I am still alive.

[Gorkington]

gendering was an accident. i thought he was your pronoun and have been making an active effort to use it because my kneejerk was something else. will try to do better in the future, but i really dont see why that should enter into your read of me though?

i really dont like you focusing on the single point that i admitted i had underthought on this page.

[Gorkington]

why is PV scum.

[nancy]

Explain to me why Gork is town when he makes up clear bullshit about me and can't be bothered to gender me correctly. I don't see it.

I am sick and tired of repeating myself and making cases that get ignored. I simply state my reads and that works better.

Gork's theory of scum grabbing vig he is pitching to try to make me sound scum versus believing it. If he was actually thinking and hunting he would say if scum picked up vig it would be for the extra kill. However what is probably more likely is that town picked up vig and scum probably picked up a doc. Only reason I can think of as to why I am still alive.

Because this wagon on him is shit and because he's genuinely trying to solve the game. Because neither he nor his preds have done anything warranting a scumread. I don't think you've stated good reasons to scumread someone here.

[MathBlade]

I just don't see Math being town here. I don't care about all the AtE or whatever you think it was doing with his sister. His Vecna push is questionable at best and his interactions with PV the previous day are so slimy. Not to mention he keeps trying to ride on the back of 'I would never do that with my sister' instead of, you know, being 'obvtown' like he constantly claims to be.

1) I am a they.
2) I am obvtown get over it. I'm trying to work with people but I'm not changing word choice etc for it. People can be obvTown to me and not be obvTown to everyone else.
3) Ask what questions you like then move on because we have scum to lynch and I'm not it and I want you to be able to see I'm town.

It's more it demonstrates a clear, not reading posts of someone you supposedly scumread when I mentioned it before.

As painful as it is it's the same problem I have with LUV. Just not paying attention and some things are so easily correctable.

Furthermore your post is written like a house of cards and doesn't have a firm foundation of belief. If it was actually a valid scumread you'd react differently.

Now I could take your entire post, rip it to shreds, and then have mountains more posts but people are already complaining about how unwieldy the thread is. Demonstrating the obvious (like your argument is clear shit) or repeating things (e.g. why PV is scum.) is not beneficial. No one has given me a reason to townread what multiple people (Vecna being one) called a scumclaim. PV is also demonstrating that he isn't engaging with clear thought in the thread.

The problem is you aren't reading posts for hunting you're reading them to see what argument you could make.

[MathBlade]

Explain to me why Gork is town when he makes up clear bullshit about me and can't be bothered to gender me correctly. I don't see it.

I am sick and tired of repeating myself and making cases that get ignored. I simply state my reads and that works better.

Gork's theory of scum grabbing vig he is pitching to try to make me sound scum versus believing it. If he was actually thinking and hunting he would say if scum picked up vig it would be for the extra kill. However what is probably more likely is that town picked up vig and scum probably picked up a doc. Only reason I can think of as to why I am still alive.

Because this wagon on him is shit and because he's genuinely trying to solve the game. Because neither he nor his preds have done anything warranting a scumread. I don't think you've stated good reasons to scumread someone here.

Let me summarize it for you

1) VCA points to Gork.
2) Creature claimed to roleblock Gork and no kill.
3) See above about how Gork is structuring his posts.
4) 10032 This post here he asks about the Leonshade wagon. Then in post 10744 he votes Leonshade. Clearly survivalist thinking here. I don't see a single reason how Leonshade became his top scumread. (which is always who you should be voting if wagoned)

It's things like number 4 that I don't see a townie thought progression on and he seems to be riding with the times rather than hunting.