Mini 1895: Shaziro Mafia - GAME OVER

[TwoFace]

Scary clowns rock.

[TwoFace]

I'm broke.

[TwoFace]

VOTE: eddie

[TwoFace]

That's stupid

[TwoFace]

Hans if you got it, go ahead and vig him.

[TwoFace]

VOTE: CoolDog

[TwoFace]

let's assume you both are town, why would eddie be dumb and not you? You were the one who actually thought he was serious

[TwoFace]

[TwoFace]

I have no issues with LaL, but it has to be an actual lie and not a joke. That was clearly a joke imo

[TwoFace]

I have no issues with LaL, but it has to be an actual lie and not a joke. That was clearly a joke imo

I don't have a sense of humor.

Yet you have made posts in games you later said was a joke...

[TwoFace]

The claim appeared to be pretty obviously false imo... mainly because, as you pointed out, the concept of actually claiming lovers on Page 3 would be terribad. You don't need to run the math there.

Completely lost.
What is this referring to?

Try reading. It's self explanatory

[TwoFace]

Wont get any objection from me

[TwoFace]

VOTE: TwoFace

I dont like those snappy one liners. really abbrassive tone that isnt that helpful.

I'm not trying to be helpful. This isn't elementary school

[TwoFace]

Well I didn't call you stupid. Just what you said was stupid.

[TwoFace]

You mean cool dog

[TwoFace]

alright so we have eddie town, we have desully town, we have drk likely town, cooldog likely town, [some other people?]

Cool dog likely town? Please explain

[TwoFace]

alright so we have eddie town, we have desully town, we have drk likely town, cooldog likely town, [some other people?]

Cool dog likely town? Please explain

And explain desully also

[TwoFace]

no clue, read lists are stupid and should never be done

[TwoFace]

one which incorporates different levels of scum/leans/nulls is OK.

it really isn't but it's just an agree to disagree kind of thing.

[TwoFace]

meta is bullshit and correlates with bad lynches.

I know. I hate meta. But for someone advocating a LAL to intentionally lie, it's a big thing to me.

[TwoFace]

His immediate aggressive posturing towards the lovers claim was imo less likely to come from scum.

If you're town, you're naive as F. There was 0 chance that was genuine

[TwoFace]

No

[TwoFace]

What about him saying he doesn't have a sense of humor yet when you search past games you find examples of him saying things he said was a joke.

Somebody who makes jokes should have totally seen that claim as a joke

[TwoFace]

Do you think he's scum lying about having thought it was serious? What is the scum motivation for lying about something so arbitrary when everyone else would obviously know it's a joke?

To make people think he's honestly upset and as such be town read. Sort of like how you town read him for it...

[TwoFace]

I definitely am an asshole when playing mafia. But only mafia, it's weird

[TwoFace]

CD is clearly scum here. Why can't people see it? People town reading him still for something so obviously fake.

Wake up people

[TwoFace]

you started attacking him "softing masons", which again, was an obvious joke. I returned with another joke. There's no town or scum motivation to claiming lovers page 3, there is however scum motivation in attacking it as I've explained.

Agree

[TwoFace]

I've never been a believer of a certain tell, but damn if a certain player flips scum, that was textbook

[TwoFace]

you started attacking him "softing masons", which again, was an obvious joke. I returned with another joke. There's no town or scum motivation to claiming lovers page 3, there is however scum motivation in attacking it as I've explained.

Agree

cool, whatever, lynch me.

This is bad play. Not.AI, just bad play.
CoolDog u r not gonna get lynched anytime soon.

The game has been rely dead recently, and apathy is the mother of Defeat.

@whemeatar why Desully?

I sure as hell hope he does.

[TwoFace]

I feel pretty good. His actions/reactions/ and even posts don't really make much sense as town.

[TwoFace]

Nah CD is scum. The wagon is good. If you're town you should be on it.

[TwoFace]

Not the intent necessarily - I'm just beyond frustrated that site meta is now to allow shitposters to do whatever they want without actually contributing to town. They get a pass for being trolls, essentially, and I'm tired of it.

Been that way for 2/3 years tbh.

It is depressing

[TwoFace]

Nah CD is scum. The wagon is good. If you're town you should be on it.

Whyyyy?

I have already explained why I think he is scum. why ask a question you could easily find out by reading?

[TwoFace]

The CoolFog wagon is being pushed by a players who are using rhetoric rather than logic or keeping an open mind.

I can't speak for others on the wagon, but I am most definitely using logic. Logic tells me that nothing from CD seems genuine or what I would expect from a townie

if you can't see that he is scum, maybe you need to work on your ability to use logic before you start accusing people of not using it...

p.edit - nope, I don't enable lazy people

[TwoFace]

hans, you asking people for reasons for their scum reads, yet you haven't provided a reason for your vote on wheme.

why is that? seems kind of hypocritical

[TwoFace]

I fail to see anything beyond a mere intuition or feeling in this post. No logic to be seen.

in that post, no you won't but I have made posts previously which explain using logic why there is no way your play comes from town.

do people seriously not read anymore? why the fuck are people so god damn lazy?

119
139
143
218
223
265

all of this adds up to a body of work that = scum

nothing CD has done resembles town. town shouldn't have to deceive/lie, scum do.

[TwoFace]

meta is bullshit and correlates with bad lynches.

I know. I hate meta. But for someone advocating a LAL to intentionally lie, it's a big thing to me.

everyone says that, yet I never have a crazy reaction when people I think are scum flip. most of the time I am right and when I am wrong, i don't really care because it was them that played like scum, so they deserved it.

[TwoFace]

I honestly have no clue why that quote posted.

[TwoFace]

I mean just look at your vote on wheme, while I agree with you that a lot of his posts are contentless, that isn't AI and any player who has played on site since 2009 certainly knows that. You would rather policy lynch him and hope he is scum rather than actually scum hunt

[TwoFace]

Well if we are being nitpicky, I am pretty sure a couple of people have made votes without any meaningful justifications. if you find that suspicious, why not single those people out as well? Superhans for example is one person who voted without any meaningful justification, he provided absolutely no justification whatsoever.


The part about rearing his head only when voted is an outright lie. Horror voted him FOR the posts he had just made. You made your vote 10 minutes AFTER he had just posted.

so yeah, you see why you look like scum?

1st reason is non AI
2nd reason is also non AI and you ignore others who do the same thing which isn't townie
3rd reason is an outright lie

so sorry you can't have my reads certificate, because you clearly aren't reading properly and if you are, you are intentionally posting things that aren't true

[TwoFace]

horror's vote is good,

let's wait for the vote-prodded response.

btw, this post shows premeditation that you were going to use wheme's activity against him, despite wheme already making posts on the same page just 2 hours before the vote on him.

I don't see town intentionally setting somebody up like that.

[TwoFace]

so yeah, you can hang today.

[TwoFace]

no hans, post 319 is for you. that post is for CD and me commenting about his reasons for voting Wheme.

Seriously, if you can't read the game thread and understand what's going on, you may want to switch to face 2 face mafia. Like it is clear as day he and I are having a conversation so there is no way you should think just cause your name was mentioned, it was a post about you.

time for a song break

Spoiler:

[TwoFace]

hans, please replace out. you lack basic reading skills to realize that my post 331 was in response to CD's post 330. My 331 was explaining how his reasons for voting wheme (which was quoted in 330) aren't any good.

[TwoFace]

and you still have not answered my question directed to you, even after I told you which post had my question for you.

[TwoFace]

and town reading me for being unwilling to help you is just dumb.

[TwoFace]

so what's worse. lying multiple times and also setting a poor player up for another false accusation as soon as they make a post OR a player just playing like shit?

cause that's basically where we are at with CD and Wheme.

CD has made posts in attempt to deceive people, where as wheme is just being a useless prick.

[TwoFace]

@Having - Hey. We haven't had much, if any experience with each other. I'm Boon. I'm known as trolly and seemingly always scum, but people with experience with me know me as a late game town powerhouse or a sneaky scum of a bitch. I like to play. I like emotion. Take a journey to the boon and back, and then you will realize...man, fuck early game.

I'm pretty sure nobody has referred to you as a powerhouse

[TwoFace]

There's plenty to go off actually

[TwoFace]

Playing badly on purpose and playing to your win condition doesn't compute for me but whatever. That's not a conversation I care to have. But thanks for admitting that. Makes things easy for me going forward

[TwoFace]

Go ahead and vote me. I'm not changing my vote off caught scum who again has LIED multiple times already in a deliberate attempt to deceive people. If that's a one dimensional push, so be it. I'd rather be one dimensional and do what's right than be muti-dimensional and allow lying and scummy play to become acceptable behavior

Also, I don't have any desire to improve my ability to read people. My ability to read people is just fine. If I misread somebody cause they did something they shouldn't have done, that's not my fault and fuck anyone who says otherwise.

If you get voted by me, you've done something you shouldn't have. If you intentionally deceive town, and you are town, it's not my fault.

Anyone who thinks lying to intentionally deceive people is acceptable please quit playing mafia now. You don't belong here.

[TwoFace]

sometimes people deserve being mislynched. take momo or even wheme honestly. if you're going to play a trolly low effort game and you get lynched that's on you.

But when you have a player who has intentionally deceived people, you don't ignore that cause that's legitimately scummy.

[TwoFace]

@imp - if a player intentionally lied in a manor to deceive everyone in the game. Is that AI to you? Answer and explain your reasoning

[TwoFace]

That's not true though. I have evidence CD lied at least twice in a deliberate attempt to deceive people. I also provided evidence of a quote which shows one of the lies was premeditated.

CD is caught scum

[TwoFace]

You cant prove that he lied tho

You can only assume

I've already proven he's lied. When a person says things that aren't true, that's a lie.

He reacted poorly to the whole fake claim. Multiple people said it was a joke he said he doesn't have a sense of humor. So I search his posts and find multiple games where he makes jokes in games. For example he accuses somebody of being mafia cause they were 3rd to vote. Then said it was a joke.

Clearly he gets jokes, so he should have picked up on the fake claim joke. Which means his reaction WAS over the top and imo fake.

That's a deliberate attempt to mislead us into thinking something that just isn't true.

He also claimed WhemeStar only posts when voted, despite having posted multiple times in the game thread, even 2 hours before the first vote on him. As soon as he gets that vote, CD tips his hand and lets everyone know he's going to falsely accuse WhemeStar of only posting when voted.

Pretty sure there was a 3rd lie but can't remember without going back, but those 2 are more than enough to confirm to me that he isn't town. He can't be. Those are outright deceitful lies that should not be made by someone with a town role pm.

[TwoFace]

Wow, not a leading question at all!

It's not a leading question. Cooldog has done this multiple times (at least twice). You think I'm scummy for pushing it so yes your opinion is very important not only for this game but for games going forward. If you end up being town, I know to basically never play with you again cause you're one of the people who's enabling terrible play on this site. I can just basically ignore you now as you are either scum with CD or town with a mindset I can't ever agree with and as such, can't trust to do the right thing

[TwoFace]

i agree that CoolDog has lied, and acted in a non-towny fashion, but to act like he is confirmed scum is not town play either.

See this is what I'm talking about. How can you agree he's done these things and think he could still be town?

He's confirmed scum because he's done those things. Cause that's what scum does. Townies don't do those things, or at least they shouldn't

[TwoFace]

OH MY GOD I'M ON THE SAME PAGE AS SOMEONE

If you are town, you probably shouldn't be excited about having bad reads

[TwoFace]

Honestly if you can claim to have a scum read on me after the few things I've said, then that's worrying. I'll be more active when my life gets less busy (soon), but I do read everything and I'm trying to post once per day.

What have you said?

[TwoFace]

On the bright side there's gonna be at least 2 scum on my wagon if I get lynched

Why do you think that?

[TwoFace]

who are they and why are you scum reading them?

[TwoFace]

who are they and why are you scum reading them?

Cool dog
Havingfitz
Ialwayswinsometimes

ok cool, can you try and explain why you scum read these 3?

[TwoFace]

ok thanks.

[TwoFace]

slight town, only because I feel like you are an easy target for scum to attack and rightfully so because your posts lack substance.

What I don't really seeing anyone do though is trying to interact with you to try and understand your thought process and get you to post substance. I think if you post your explanations on why you are scum reading people, i can get a better feel on you.

you could easily be scum but the reasons people have given for scum reading you point to a poor player, not necessarily scum and since you were so easily mislynched in my game and based on my observations, no offense but i don't consider you a strong player.

[TwoFace]

no it isn't a policy lynch because I think it is a legitimate scumtell. Since there are no 100% absolute scum tells, I realize that there is a small chance he could be town, but when his original action doesn't make sense to me from a town POV and his response to why he reacted that way was a lie. That doesn't look town to me. It shouldn't look town to you (assuming you are town) either.

an innocent person isn't going to lie to make the story fit, a guilty person is though. he is guilty.

[TwoFace]

1st quote- I don't care what people tell me. I know what I know. I know CD is playing like scum so I'm voting them. They are the scummiest person in the game and need to be lynched. If you don't agree well that's your loss.

2nd quote - I mean that if you end up being town I'm blacklisting you. That's what I mean.

3rd quote - no im not implying people should treat it like a policy lynch, people should treat it like a scum lynch. Cause that's what I think it is.

If you want to stop talking about CD, that's your right but I'm not going to stop. He's my top scum read

[TwoFace]

i'll do my best to sit back and be quiet while yall do whatever you feel you need to. I agree nothing more I can say about CD without repeating myself. I have done all I can to try and lynch who i think is scum, nobody seems interested in lynching cd so nothing else i can do really

[TwoFace]

I'll try to give my reasons later

it's later

[TwoFace]

I'll try to give my reasons later

it's later

Sorry I will try when I get on computer.

Quick question, does my role confirm me as town? If so why not cause I don't see scum ever getting my
Role in a normal game

I don't even remember you claiming

[TwoFace]

Fruit vendor

Id have to research

Why claim though?

[TwoFace]

wtf is a fruit vendor?

http://bfy.tw/Awld

[TwoFace]

But to answer your question wheme. People who think you are scum aren't going to believe your role until it can be confirmed. Assuming it gets confirmed.

But that doesn't absolve you from doing the work. You still have to play the game.

[TwoFace]

@Whemestar can you describe specifically what ur Role PM says.

He doesn't need to do that

But if he does he needs to paraphrase

[TwoFace]

Interesting enough. There has only been 2 fruit vendors in normal games. They were 3rd part SK

[TwoFace]

Scum cops are considered normal on MS?? Wow i need to read up.

Scum can basically have any pr town can have. It's how you prevent game breaking.

[TwoFace]

In large normal games 2 town vendors and 1 mafia

[TwoFace]

Go to normal que they have the archived games where they list the player list and roles.

[TwoFace]

Which imo means he was probably the counter to CD

[TwoFace]

Shit sorry forgot I was being quiet

[TwoFace]

1. because he says he has a role isn't a good answer to that question.

2. it doesn't need to say it in the wiki, it's common sense. tracker can track a player of their choosing, so if there was a tracker and he tracked the fruit vendor, he would be able to see who that person visited.

do you really have no idea how trackers work?

[TwoFace]

I've stated a few times that I think the case on him has been based almost entirely of people (TwoFace mainly) blowing his posts way out of proportion.

Ignore my case, can you honestly see CD's posts coming from town? If yes, which ones?

Also given wheme is probably town, what about his vote? Look good or no?

I'll look at the other votes on wheme also. That was a terrible wagon.

[TwoFace]

it quotes everything relevant about the wheme votes in the spoiler which will save you time at the least

Yeah i saw it earlier. I was already against the wheme wagon.

[TwoFace]

CD has had to spend most of the day defending himself from a Lynch All Liars case. I would like to see more scumhunting from him, but I'm just honestly not reading him as scum at the moment.

Regarding wheme's votes, they've all been terrible. He voted fitz to sheep implosion and then a terrible OMGUS-like vote on IAWS. He deserves the pressure that has been placed on him.

I really don't like how you just downgrade my case as a lynch all liars case cause it's absolutely more than that

[TwoFace]

I'm going to correct people who try to downplay my case as some policy lynch. Cause it's not. He came in looking scummy. He was questioned about it and wasn't honest about his reason for it.

He makes a bad vote on a player and his reasons aren't alignment indicative and one wasn't even true.

The reason that wasn't true, he clearly planned it in advance and even tipped his hand.

Given that Wheme is probably town, just his vote/reasons for wheme is enough to scum read him.

[TwoFace]

Plus he's done no scum hunting. You can defend yourself and still scum hunt. I don't see him doing that

[TwoFace]

That's about as clear and concise as I can get. Anyone accuses me of making a policy lynch push on him now is basically claiming scum as far as I'm concerned.

P.edit - I'm sitting here waiting for CD to be lynched. Don't really fee like talking about anyone else atm

[TwoFace]

Day 1 Tunneling is bad.

Not really. But I'm a serial tunneler.

Tell me about boon. I want to see if your reasons for him are better than mine for cd.

You're already 0-1 with wheme. You need to redeem yourself

[TwoFace]

Look at boon's ISO. I understand this game being slow paced with not a whole lot of discussion, but there has been absolutely no

attempts

at scumhunting. It's been more than inactivity.

So doing nothing is scummier than doing scummy things.

Got it

[TwoFace]

I'm not convinced on the TownWheme.

Ok so I just saw the wheme claim and now I'm confused. If he is truly town, then the OMGUS vote on me is just bitterness/stupidity. I'm still torn though, because I really thought he was scummy. Can someone make a case on how wheme could still be scum? Otherwise I might have to hop off this wagon.

Omgus votes aren't stupid. Sometimes they are good votes.

[TwoFace]

Can we put pressure on the guy I'm voting

Can you tell me why you think he's scum.

[TwoFace]

I'm getting ready to board a plane Hans. I'll respond asap....might be tomorrow.

I haven't read anything since Tuesday. I'm on vacation until next Tuesday so finding time to post might be a bit difficult. Will try to post as much as I can.

Hmm

[TwoFace]

it's suspicious

[TwoFace]

I'm hungover as fuck, so I won't post until maybe later today. My brain doesn't work, but I see that I have catching up to do, which will be done at a latter time once some form of rationality returns.

you haven't really had any content since tuesday though. It's now friday...

[TwoFace]

yeah since he is just a fruit vendor, I don't think we need to direct his action. I know if it was me I wouldn't let anyone direct me

[TwoFace]

the problem is even if we direct his target, we still don't know if he is town fruit vendor, mafia fruit vendor, or 3rd party SK fruit vendor. All 3 have been used on this site. So confirming he is a fruit vendor isn't that much of a priority for me.

I think since his predecssor hinted at his role and now wheme claimed the role, I don't really think the claim is fake. The only thing unknown is alignment

p.edit - that

[TwoFace]

I've stopped posting cause I literally have nothing more to add. CD is so obviously scum, even when I've stopped pushing him he's managed to do absolutely nothing of value. Bunch of glorified prod dodges and respond to some meaningless posts.

Btw you claiming probably won't get people town read you. Scum hunting would though

[TwoFace]

I claimed because scum has 2 choices.

Kill a conf town because they don't want conf towns
Leave me alive as conf town

I don't care if I live or die in this situation. That's why I claimed early on

You're claim doesn't make you conf town though. Even if somebody says they received fruit it doesn't confirm you. As I already pointed out, there has been mafia, sk, and town versions of your role.

[TwoFace]

*your

[TwoFace]

Interesting enough. There has only been 2 fruit vendors in normal games. They were 3rd party SK

This right here is actually reason to think you are SK (this was referring to mini normal games)

[TwoFace]

So explain what he's doing that you do. That's a good way to start.

I'll agree with you about Eddie but he's pushing CD so that's fine for now. He could just be doing that to buddy me

[TwoFace]

^ that

[TwoFace]

Learn to read.

[TwoFace]

I said that's a possibility, I didn't say that was what you were doing.

[TwoFace]

You know how I am as town, so if you are scum, it would benefit to be on my good side vs my bad side.

[TwoFace]

meta is bullshit and correlates with bad lynches.

I know. I hate meta. But for someone advocating a LAL to intentionally lie, it's a big thing to me.

You know how I am as town, so if you are scum, it would benefit to be on my good side vs my bad side.

Does that count as scumhunting or am I retarded. Genuine question

i don't like the use of that word, but idk why do you feel those 2 quotes mean something?

[TwoFace]

You know how I am as town, so if you are scum, it would benefit to be on my good side vs my bad side.

I've actually never seen your scum game, you seem to role town every god damn time

it's awesome ain't it? I have been scum once and it was bad timing. It was the holidays and I was inactive and came back to my only scum partner claiming miller and calling out the cop claim and got lynched. how I survived is unknown but I did manage to lynch the traitor, who basically screwed any town cred I could have earned by telling everyone they didn't know who scum was (who the hell uses an uninformed traitor?) so i was lynched purely out of POE, literally nothing I could do would have won me the game lol

[TwoFace]

There's no hypocrisy in those quotes though

[TwoFace]

That's not really meta though. I'm not trying to clear myself based on my play. I'm using a hypothetical scenario. If he is scum, he knows (as any player who's played with me would know) that it's not good to be on my bad side cause nobody likes to be tunneled.

[TwoFace]

Meta would be I'm town cause I'm tunneling like I do as town.

Or so and so is scum cause when he's town he's usually more active.

Me thinking that Eddie would buddy me as scum isn't using meta. It's using common sense. I'm easy to buddy especially early on. In mylo/lylo however id be more suspicious of the people who were agreeing with me.

[TwoFace]

Goodnight

[TwoFace]

yeah we have about a day and a half, cooldog still remains the best lynch imo

[TwoFace]

I've tried and people resisted my idea of who. The alternative options given by others don't interest me so my vote isn't changing

[TwoFace]

If a hans flashwagon appeared i'd probably join it but i don't see that as especially likely.

Why do you think he's scum

[TwoFace]

Ok

[TwoFace]

okay supethans hasn't done anything relevant in ages

neither has cd tbh

[TwoFace]

This game has been a nonstop tunnel fest on CoolDog, and I don't buy any of the arguments for it. The only benefit to his lynch is that the distraction will be out of the way, but I am still vehemently opposed to his lynch.

Complaining yet did nothing to try and get a wagon going on anybody else.

[TwoFace]

I've already stated I don't like the CD lynch.

VOTE: IAlwaysWinSometimes

Next wagon, and looking through their ISO shows nothing except "My wagon is an easy mislynch so don't vote me"

Like who are you going to convince with this?

[TwoFace]

You voted CoolDog on Page 3 and turned off the rest of the game. GTFO.

So I pushed a scum read and you didn't and now are complaining about it and I'm bad?

your reason for wheme was shit also. 2 weak pushes vs mine who's pretty sure given that way he's given up, it's a scum flip.

[TwoFace]

I'm done with this for now.

See you all Day 2.

CD scum flip means you're next

[TwoFace]

No probably still means you're next

[TwoFace]

All your votes were crap for bad reasons. Mine was for legitimate reasons that guy tried to downplay as a lynch al liars case which actually wasn't the case at all.

[TwoFace]

Replace guy with you.

Dumb phone

[TwoFace]

What about the part where I said he reacted poorly? That's not a lynch all liars case
his lie was to cover up his bad reaction. What townie does that? None should.

He acted suspicious he lied to cover it up.

That's not a lynch all liars policy.

I also thought his reasons for wheme were terrible. 2 weren't AI and one was an outright blue and he hinted that the false attack was coming.

That isn't a lynch all liars policy either. It's somebody premeditating an attack on what I perceive to be an easy target.

I don't see town doing that, scum totally would.

So that's not a lynch all liars policy eithe r

If you are town, learn to fucking read next time before you try to belittle a case of mine. I don't tolerate that shit. I already told you it wasn't a lynch all liars policy lynch. It was a lynch the person doing scummy things cause he's probably scum lynch.

So fuck off

[TwoFace]

And please attempt to justify why I would so blatantly and publicly try and defend CoolDog if we were scumbuddies together. Yes, it's WIFOM. No, I don't give a shit.

Maybe im wrong and he is town and you are white knighting idk but if you are town your play has been shit. You haven't tried to make a good case on anyone and now at deadline are complaining about it.

I tried at least and you belttled my case into something it absolutely wasn't.

[TwoFace]

Wheme vote was shit
Boon vote was shot
Iaws vote was shit
Even your CD vote is shit.

If you're town go play some newbie games. If you're scum keep it up. I don't think anyone is gonna suspect you...

[TwoFace]

Hey remember that time HorrorDude made a bad vote

Yes multiple times

[TwoFace]

Fuck this.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: IAlwaysWinSometimes

I'm not going to be part of the CoolDog lynch. If you want him dead, find other people to join you.

Antitown as fuck. Even if you don't agree at this point a NL is worse.

[TwoFace]

And please attempt to justify why I would so blatantly and publicly try and defend CoolDog if we were scumbuddies together. Yes, it's WIFOM. No, I don't give a shit.

you didn't actually commit to defending hin. you passive aggressively insulted the wagon without actually looking at the votes or arguing the cases, allthewhile voting him in the end while still arguing against the lynch. you didn't even reply to my paragraph about you either.

This actually is a good point

[TwoFace]

event that they're both town which at this point is my best guess. I don't want 100% of rhetoric tomorrow to revolve around cool dog aga

It won't. We'll be discussing why horror is scum

[TwoFace]

My issue with the activity in this game is that it is solely centered around CoolDog and his reaction to what happened in RVS

If that were true how did a wheme wagon form? How did this iaws wagon form?

[TwoFace]

event that they're both town which at this point is my best guess. I don't want 100% of rhetoric tomorrow to revolve around cool dog aga

It won't. We'll be discussing why horror is scum

If you are wrong about CoolDog, you don't get to lead town anymore.

1. I don't think I am
2. I didn't lead town. I pushed my scum read and others followed or maybe they also found him scummy.

I'm going to do the same thing tomorrow and there is nothing you or anyone else can do stop me.

[TwoFace]

I actually finally have a townread on horror assuming cd townflip. I don't think he has any reason to waffle to iaws and back as scum when I already said I'd deadline hammer cd. Not sure what to think of him if cd flips scum, will take more thought then but if cd flips scum we should have a trove of info to look at in general so etc

Regardless of CDs flip, no fucking way he's town. Town scum hunts and tries to lynch scum. He did none of that. He instead sat back and complained about it

[TwoFace]

can someone explain the wagon on CoolDog in plain english? like a TLDR, because i havent.

Eddie "claimed" lovers on page 3, CD jumped on him pretty hard for it. People are saying that CoolDog is now scum for that, because the reaction was more likely to come from scum than town? idk... I don't buy it tbh.

Whassup folks.

VOTE: Desully

My vote goes here

Really didn't like Darklyns first couple posts... cmon man you put me in a rough spot

I really don't like this intro to the game.

VOTE: WhemeStar

If you are town and are proud of this post, quit playing mafia forever

[TwoFace]

Eddie "claimed" lovers on page 3, CD jumped on him pretty hard for it. People are saying that CoolDog is now scum for that, because the reaction was more likely to come from scum than town? idk... I don't buy it tbh.

Oh wait. I was the one saying that yet you said my push was a lynch all liars push.

Your explanation clearly shows that you didn't think it was a lynch all liars push...

[TwoFace]

I really hate when people blame me for things. I push for who I think is scum and try to get others to follow.

That's literally how you play mafia.

If you don't like the outcome, be louder or make a better argument.

I'm never going to stop pushing my scum reads.

[TwoFace]

VOTE: horror
Fitz is scum also

[TwoFace]

I don't give a rats ass what you do. You did shit day one and at deadline bitched about it others.

Go duck yourself and stop talking to me

[TwoFace]

VOTE: horror
Fitz is scum also

I am. Learn to read dumbass

[TwoFace]

Wheme. Who did you give fruit to and why wasn't it me?

[TwoFace]

No, I don't think he was leading town.

Yet you said I was...

[TwoFace]

I read the thread. You quoted where you said it. Backtracking after doesn't change anything.

See if you were town you would know how to play this game. Each person who voted CD is singularly responsible for their own vote. Trying to put the blame on me is something scum would do.

If you are town, I'll gladly take the loss cause I got stuck in a game with players who play like crap on purpose for some reason

[TwoFace]

I'm not fishing. I AM trying to get my biggest scum read lynched. If you're town seriously learn to play better.

[TwoFace]

Ftr, I'm checked out of this game in any meaningful way until people stop insulting each other. It's just not fun to play with all of that going on

So replace out. Don't make a lame excuse to lurk some more.

[TwoFace]

i got no fruit

[TwoFace]

2f gives reasoning when he tunnels. you need to do that because I think iaws is my strongest tr at this point.

Why is he your strongest tr?

[TwoFace]

seriously stop saying I have shit reads. My scum reads are on people who play like scum. If my reads are shit stop criticizing me and criticize the people playing like shit.

Plus saying my reads are shit implies you know I'm wrong which confirms my suspicion of you.

[TwoFace]

I am thinking hans could be scum, I don't see any other reason why somebody would kill boon unless he was right. He certainly isn't a great threat to find scum normally

[TwoFace]

yeah so do I. After we lynch horror, i'd be ok with a hans lynch

[TwoFace]

And I do know they are wrong wrt at least two players in the game (CD and me) and atm I suspect they're wrong wrt Horror.

my read was wrong on CD only because CD decided to play absolutely terrible. He reacted in a way no townie should ever react imo, when asked about it he lied and said he doesn't get jokes yet when I look at past games he clearly does and even made some. Like why as town would he lie about that? why not just say the truth and he misinterpreted the fake claim or something?

horror is probably scum because town doesn't sit back and do nothing and complain about it. There is literally no town motivation for that.

if you are town, then I seriously don't understand the motives behind anything you have done this game.

[TwoFace]

Your entrance to the wagon was shit, and me being inactive yesterday doesn't suddenly mean that the entrance wasn't shit.

You took time to call me out on my push on Cd, but not him?

Why not?

Don't blame your inactivity cause you were active enough to misrep my push and active enough to try and push other people and active enough to complain about people focusing on CD.

I want an actual reason why you if you are town would ignore somebody that you suspect

[TwoFace]

5th most active poster can't use inactivity as an excuse for anything

[TwoFace]

ok... 701 is the first post I can recall by Horror that I do not like. He is on the L-2 wagon of someone he suspects (iaws) but moves to another L-2 wagon on someone he absolutely doesn't want to see lynched. Why not make a final push for support on the iaws wagon? smh....bad Horror.

Look at my play at the end of yesterday - it was full of nothing but absolute frustration at this gamestate in general. We were only a few hours to deadline and I had all but given up on Day 1 at that point. I'm trying to chalk it up to a learning experience.

How does anyone tell if it's genuine or fake frustration? You do know that's easy to fake right?

You didn't push any of your own reads hard at all
You complain about me pushing my reads and misrepped my entire push.

neither of those things appear townie to me. If you want to write it off as conf.bias that's on you but if you saw somebody else do that and didn't find it scummy, than I doubt your ability to play

[TwoFace]

Yeah I'm not going to talk to you.

Why are you refusing to answer legitimate questions?

[TwoFace]

You say I'm not capable of having a conversation with but that's absolutely not true. One game I even did a 180 on a death tunnel cause the person I was tunneling actually convinced me to look elsewhere and guess what? He was right and we lynched scum and won.

I give people instructions on how to stop a death tunnel in my signature. You want me to stop, make a case that's convincing enough that I doubt my own read.

I'm a very simple person to figure out. I have a certain expectation from townies. Most people think it's unrealistic which just goes to prove this site is in the shitter.

Town doesn't lie
Town scum hunts
Town doesn't lurk

You do these things and you get my respect and a town read. You don't and I think you are scum.

It's really that fucking simple. (There maybe more things that I can't think of but for now those are the 3 main things)

[TwoFace]

Refusing to answer questions and being lazy also don't make players look good.

[TwoFace]

You say I'm not capable of having a conversation with but that's absolutely not true. One game I even did a 180 on a death tunnel cause the person I was tunneling actually convinced me to look elsewhere and guess what? He was right and we lynched scum and won.

You don't seem to be reading. I'm capable of chnging my opinions

If you won't even answer a question, how do you expect to change my mind?

If you are town and you think I'm town, you should be motivated to get me to chcange my read on you so I can focus on somebody else.

You as scum thought would probably hope we argue so people think this is another tf/cd fight and you get by being useless again.

[TwoFace]

Let me put it this way: What could I say to you directly right now that would cause you to change your read on me?

I literally just gave you instructions

[TwoFace]

Thanks. That's a start in the right direction.

[TwoFace]

Fitz is scum also

Can you explain this read for me?

Maybe later in the game, but for now he's not appearing very friendly to townie

[TwoFace]

Like I've said - me playing like crap Day 1 doesn't mean that my reads Day 2 are suddenly null and void. If you have an issue with the fact that I jumped on you for your crappy entrance onto the CD wagon, tell me why I'm wrong. Just saying "You had the chance to discuss it but you missed your opportunity" and ignoring the case looks bad.

No they aren't null and void but I'll expect good reasons for them since you basically shit all over mine and even misrepped them.

[TwoFace]

Horror. What do you make of hans's vote on Cd. Also why do you think he apologized to you?

[TwoFace]

The CD Lynch was horrible, and his allegedly scummy play was based entirely on players overreaching and misrepping pretty much every post he made.

Lets just move on from talking about how good or bad it was. I can literally spend forever arguing why it was good and you can do the same for why it was bad.

Let's look for scum on the wagon and scum off the wagon.

If I completely ignore your d1 play and put you back to null (which I'm not completely prepared to do yet) who's your best bet for scum on and off the wagons?

So far your arguments for Eddie are weak, and I'm not even town reading him.

I'm also going to slightly back off on my scum read on fitz a little but I absolutely hate his reasons for town Hans. meta is bullshit especially if they just played together as scum. If I was ever in that situation that would always be on my mind. "How to appear town to a person with whom I'm scum with in another game as to not get caught in either"

Cause let's be real, people use ongoing games even when they aren't supposed to

[TwoFace]

My two biggest scumspects still haven't even posted ^_^'

Who are they and why?

[TwoFace]

@TwoFace...When you say "fitz was the only Wheme vote I was satisfied with" do you mean his vote on me was the only vote you liked or my vote on him was the only one you liked?

This wasn't me. Not sure who you meant this for but I definitely didn't say it and the link doesn't take me to a post where I say it.

[TwoFace]

do you always tunnel/push mislynches on people who in some warped distorted corner of your mind committed the mortal sin of lying?

Townies aren't supposed to lie, so if somebody lies in a malicious way, in a way that deliberately deceives town, like Cd did, yes I'll push it every time.

[TwoFace]

My two biggest scumspects still haven't even posted ^_^'

Who are they and why?

Hans and kop for reasons outlined in my one wall post today.

At work, I'll engage more substantively later.

Oh, I didn't read that. Probably won't cause I hate huge wall read list posts.

[TwoFace]

I find it funny that Hans is fitz top town read but nothing in fitz' iso really explains why other than meta.

[TwoFace]

Stone cold I need to know your main please.

[TwoFace]

VOTE: drk

[TwoFace]

So IAWS is cop and DRK is scum.

Rip to both of them

Such a weird comment

[TwoFace]

Drk and hans are probably scum.

Fitz/horror/wheme is probably the 3rd

[TwoFace]

Your 5th. That's a good spot.

[TwoFace]

Anyone get fruit?

[TwoFace]

Yes I'm interested in fruit. For the reasons you just explained. Since iaws wasn't killed I'm assuming he was blocked. Which means if wheme wasn't lying (which I now think he was) somebody should be claiming fruit.

If iaws wasn't blocked, awesome but I'm a realist and realistically he should have been.

[TwoFace]

why is that funny? You are giving the reason I'm giving for TR'ing Hans while shading that I'm not giving reasons. smh...

Cause I sr you both and you don't like to bus and since you have bad reasons to tr him, it's possible you're partners.

[TwoFace]

The fact you didn't read stone cold was dead and remove it from your catch-up post is strange.

[TwoFace]

also fitz' question to wheme is bad. That's a question I'd expect from a n00b as the answer is quite obvious (assuming wheme is tiown)

Like I try not to scum read you fitz, but you aren't giving me anything to work with here.

[TwoFace]

IAWS, you have been pretty much suspecting me (as well as others), what made you investigate DRK over myself?

Why if you want us to assume you're town would you ask a stupid question like that?

[TwoFace]

You aren't cleared.

Also what do you mean "blocked result"?

[TwoFace]

I don't even think that was a fake claim. That a comment anyone should be able to make. Nobody knows the setup all he said was common sense

[TwoFace]

VOTE: wheme
Fruit vendor doesn't get a result pm

[TwoFace]

Shit I thought you were wheme. Smh

UNVOTE:

[TwoFace]

I need to wake up. Sorry I thought I was talking to wheme. Smh

[TwoFace]

Because it's logical for a cop to investigate someone he scum reads.

Actually no. Proper cop play is to not investigate somebody you scum read. Even the wiki says so.

Cop should investigate null reads. They should not investigate obviously scummy players and obviously townie players.

[TwoFace]

Or rather, look like they

could

be a signal

That could be a good lead actually

[TwoFace]

Yeah that's basically what I did. I couldn't read her and I had a feeling she was scum.

That is how I played my game recently as cop also and hit scum. Nobody would believe me until I outed myself

[TwoFace]

Desully was stone cold so we got to find somebody else. I'll look through ISOs today

[TwoFace]

Ooh. Could be horror dude

[TwoFace]

DeathRowKitty is probably town. This is more of a gut feel thing than anything in particular; her play feels much more like what I remember of her town play. Or at least, the way she's interacting with the game is more reminiscent of how she plays as town.

drk and I basically joined this game because we hadn't played a game together in a really long time.

not to mention the two of you just recently played together. granted drk ended up replacing out...

before that all I can find are marathon games which are completely different than regular mafia games.

[TwoFace]

I mean imp's posts have been pretty forgettable

I think that drk trying to vote hans earlier in the game and the fact that now imp wonders what happened to the hans hate, makes me want to not lynch hans today.

imp as town, would know that with a scum flip (even traitor) reads will ultimately change.

Imp's vote on me was absolutely terrible

so I think I like imp/horror/fitz in that order

[TwoFace]

No good lead unless you think DRK was any better at picking out scum than the rest of us.

drk knew who scum was so yeah he was better at picking out scum


updated my list

imp/fitz/horror

[TwoFace]

I feel like the tl;dr right now is 1, you guys are reading way too 1-dimensionally into the posts of a role whose job is explicitly to frame people, and 2, scum killed boon and now stone cold who literally said he would not stop tunneling the hans slot today.

traitor's job is to make sure mafia knows he is the traitor so they don't kill him first and foremost

the boon and stone cold could kills could be explained in a way that doesn't necessarily mean hans is scum,, especially since drk was pushing hans at one point I am more likely to lean town on them

[TwoFace]

P.edit. Traitors know who scum are? I've never been one so I don't know.

you don't read very well do you? the mod posts role pms with each flip. try reading those, they are very helpful.

[TwoFace]

I think it's imp and fitz personally

[TwoFace]

Imp perhaps....me no.

given your entire body of work, I have trouble finding anything townie from you.

[TwoFace]

fitz, one day i'd love to see you play a game where you are active beginning to end and you don't do one any of those wall posts, instead you directly interact with people. Not sure why you don't do that anyway, but one day i'd love to see it.

[TwoFace]

what's your opinion of hans content wrt this game?

I second this question.

meta town read on a player isn't going to fly anymore.

[TwoFace]

that's an irrelevant question

[TwoFace]

like 2 people asked you for something game related and you ignore that and ask something non game related.

why?

VOTE: fitz

[TwoFace]

that is at least the 2nd question fitz has asked where the answer was already available had he read the thread instead of skimming