Mini 1894: DBZ Abridged Mafia - Arrival To Namek (Game Over)

[ɀefiend]

Agreeing with Tywin in his argument with you has NOTHING to do with Maria.

That's not what I'm saying here.

I'm saying you say you agree with Tywin and yet your positions on both Clumsy AND Maria are opposite of what Tywin has been saying.

Ok??? What is your point? Do I have to agree with one of my TRs on

every

issue?

You are conflating the two issues to try and make it seem like I should be aligned with Tywin on every issue. I'm not.

...Nope? I'm just refuting the statements

you've

made. Tywin himself has agreed with me on this.

What statement? You've proved that I disagree with Tywin on two people. I don't see how that's relevant to my independent read of Maria.

Also, you aren't my biggest scumread. You also conveniently missed the part of my post where I explained how ABR and Almost talked about your play style and analysis of the 1v1 so I reconsidered.

The only one who knows my playstyle here is Imperium (Nacho)

You're just empirically wrong on everything you say and I don't know if it's because you're not reading, can't read, won't read, or simply lying.

Actually,

you're

just empirically wrong. I've played with you before here and

on EpicMafia.

Also I don't know if you're not reading, can't read, won't read, or simply lying, but ABR and Almost's assessments of your 1v1 with Tywin are independent of having experience with you, and therefore cannot dismissed on such grounds.

[Socrates]

I literally struggle to follow what the current arguments are even about.

[Majiffy]

Ok??? What is your point? Do I have to agree with one of my TRs on

every

issue?

No but you should probably agree with the things you're explicitly saying you're agreeing with instead of saying

literally the opposite.

Like holy shit how are you even having this argument right now.

EVEN TYWIN AGREED WITH MY POINT. CONSIDER THAT.

[Majiffy]

You know what there's just so much stupid in this game fuck it

I'm gonna lurk it off and just sheep wagons for a while I can't take this

You can't all be scum but you're all so fucking dumb

[Socrates]

I read through that whole wall and my eyes only glazed over once or twice! You've made a few shit assumptions here, and I'm assuming that's because you're scum trying to push a narrative.

I like the confidence and conviction in this read; Socrates I noticed liked it too but managed to dismiss it by rationalizing it by Clumsy finding someone to spar with who had weak rhetoric, but I don't think that makes sense. If Clumsy is scum here, nothing changes with the discovery of Tywin; the wagon on them is still much stronger and, even if stars align and they manage to get Tywin lynched, they're still dead tomorrow - finding a player you can beat up as scum is nice, but it's typically not enough impetus for a change in attitude. Finding scum is different; as town, finding scum Day 1 means that even if you get lynched today, there's a roadmap to follow after you're gone and even if scum manage to lynch you today, you will still win if they fall down after you die.

This is a fine perspective in a vacuum, and I didn't dismiss it so much as hesitated to give it too much credit. Things like this ARE part of why I keep flip-flopping on him. But remember that CP's arguments with Tywin almost exactly mirror what happened between Majiffy and Tywin. Majiffy was being wagoned, came out with a case on Tywin, Tywin tunnelled hard, and Majiffy came out the other side looking better to the audience than he went in. There is a blueprint for this success already sitting in this very game, and it wouldn't be hard to Scum!CP to see that and strategically place his vote there, anticipating that he could rely on the resulting explosion from Tywin to only be to his benefit.

And remember that when he placed that vote he wasn't the Topic of the Day.

[Socrates]

Oh I think I get the argument? Zefiend stated Tywin's perspective on the wagons backward, Majif pointed this out, and Zefiend jumped straight to 'we don't have to agree on everything' instead of simply admitting that he got something wrong?

Or something?

Majif, help me out here.

[Majiffy]

Correct.

[Socrates]

Okay. Then yes, this is a dumb argument.

The fact that you are choosing to just shut it down rather than scumread him is ++good.

[Tywin Lannister]

@Tywin: Stop wasting your time and effort on a wagon that will not take off today. Let's have a flip first and then we can reevaluate.

Now, you may have reservations, but just play with me and assume that Maria flipped Scum. Would you still SR Majiffy as hard as you do now? Would you feel better about him? Or would it not matter at all?

I already know Maria's going to get lynched. I just don't think it's the right one. If she flips scum, I really don't know if it will change my Majiff opinion or not. Probably it would show that I'm wrong, but I don't specifically connect Maria's flip with Majiff's. The one connection is Maria's vote on him, which would say he's town, but it was after his wagon was derailed already too. It could go either way, but if Maria flips town, I probably have no choice but to look elsewhere. I may be lynched first anyway for being one of the vocal defenders of her slot too. So it's kind of a moot point.

[Tywin Lannister]

Tywin, i know you're pissed off about this, but calm down. i read the damn exchange. my read on Majiffy changed because of it and because there are players i'm SRing more now, he was a weaker early-game SR.

i didn't have anything else to say about the exchange because it was difficult to follow for me. i don't know what else i can say. so i gut-read from it and then moved on to exchanges that would actually allow me to form some reads i can rely on.

i'm not 'owning an SR'. i'm refuting zefiend's point that he was the first player to say something concrete about Majiffy. that's really it.

as for arguments about wagons receiving opposition vs. non-opposition: not something i look at day 1. i've been town and wagoned for a while in games. my pushers would always cite 'lack of opposition' as a reason for me to be scum, because scum were saving me for lategame or thinking there were better targets. or just defending me.

No, you're right. I was a bit out of line with that response. I don't SR you anyways, so your exact stance on it doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things. I honestly didn't realize Zef had made a previous case on Majiff until after I voted there and saw the vote count. So there were three including me, and I forgot who the other player was. I assume it was you? So that's my fault for not paying attention anyways.

The reason I'm all uppity about the exchange between Majiff/me was that it was given lots of excuses and hand waves, which doesn't look right. Even if it's TvT, there was a lot of content to at least get better reads on both of us. Too many said it was SvT (scum being me) though, and aside from the point about Majiff naturally exaggerating, I didn't see my points as being inherently scummy. My frustration was questioned by you, a few others questioned my tunnel vision, and others just ignored it and said their eyes glaze over when they see it. It's all understandable to a certain point, but clumsy/Maria didn't have great cases on them either, yet people want to lynch there and refused to go near me or Majiff (for the most part). I know others see the difference in pushback here.

Isn't it likely that if too many people are eager to lynch anyone on D1, then those lunches are probably not scum? Almost: you said you were in a game where all the wagons were on scum. What was the pushback like? Who defended who from your memory? What did scum do? Idk if I've ever seen a smaller game like this lynch scum on D1. It's only happened in huge games where the lynch was decided by the highest voted player by a deadline over a majority lynch.

[MariaR]

Give me a vote count and I'm self voting I have nothing else to say I'm town my flavor is ASAI I'm one of freeze's men who warn him a unit is going I'm clearly forever going to be lynchbait as town and I'd rather die now while we have mling I do think clum is town

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

lol give me a page top and you get yourself a vote count.

[MariaR]

Are you challenging me to spam Gin you little fuck I will do it

I was blessed with mod powers, WHATS UP.

but plz no spam
~Gin~

[MariaR]

Do not challenge me in the art of trolling

[Tywin Lannister]

I read through that whole wall and my eyes only glazed over once or twice! You've made a few shit assumptions here, and I'm assuming that's because you're scum trying to push a narrative.

I like the confidence and conviction in this read; Socrates I noticed liked it too but managed to dismiss it by rationalizing it by Clumsy finding someone to spar with who had weak rhetoric, but I don't think that makes sense. If Clumsy is scum here, nothing changes with the discovery of Tywin; the wagon on them is still much stronger and, even if stars align and they manage to get Tywin lynched, they're still dead tomorrow - finding a player you can beat up as scum is nice, but it's typically not enough impetus for a change in attitude. Finding scum is different; as town, finding scum Day 1 means that even if you get lynched today, there's a roadmap to follow after you're gone and even if scum manage to lynch you today, you will still win if they fall down after you die.

This is a fine perspective in a vacuum, and I didn't dismiss it so much as hesitated to give it too much credit. Things like this ARE part of why I keep flip-flopping on him. But remember that CP's arguments with Tywin almost exactly mirror what happened between Majiffy and Tywin. Majiffy was being wagoned, came out with a case on Tywin, Tywin tunnelled hard, and Majiffy came out the other side looking better to the audience than he went in. There is a blueprint for this success already sitting in this very game, and it wouldn't be hard to Scum!CP to see that and strategically place his vote there, anticipating that he could rely on the resulting explosion from Tywin to only be to his benefit.

And remember that when he placed that vote he wasn't the Topic of the Day.

The fact that you think Majiff came out looking better and that I'm a weak player to be beat up, while others like Zef said they completely agreed with my assessment on it and removed Majiff's entire argument, and others just saying Majiff is super prone to exaggerations on top of exaggerations means I really question what you've read and if you've ever truly analyzed it.

Actually, all you've ever said about it was that your eyes glaze over when you see my posts, which means you don't really read them. So how can you take the stance you do when it's contrarian to what others have taken from the exchange? What exactly makes you think I'm a weak player to be beaten up, or that either Clumsy or Majiff's case on me had any validity whatsoever? I saw it as complete and utter fabrication on Majiff's part, and Clumsy I just saw as a defensive player that doesn't push anything they supposedly believe in. Neither of them have ever asked a question of me at any point, so can you explain why? Clumsy DID answer my questions, while Majiff NEVER did. Can you explain why? What makes that look townie to you?

[MariaR]

Btw if it isn't obv enough I'm a VT

[Majiffy]

Are you really defending yourself based on Zef's ability to comprehend what he's reading? We already know he clearly can't.

[Alisae]

Btw if it isn't obv enough I'm a VT

flavor?

[MariaR]

Me saying things like oh another game where I get lynched d1 as town is just fact because it happens a shit ton I've never been lynched d1 as scum and it isn't gonna happen this game either cause I flipped town N don't know how to stop it I'm easy to lynch as town and not as scum *shrug* I don't mind lynching myself so town can wake up and see that scum are driving the wagons that were both on town I think Clum slot is town and shouldn't be lynched tomorrow it's very clear
Pedit: Already claimed

[Tywin Lannister]

Maria, what the hell did you say above lol. You're one of freeze's men? Isn't the bad guy?

[MariaR]

TYWIN I RECHECKED MY ROLE PM MANY TIMES I KNOW LMFAO
Yes I'm one of freeza's men who tries to warn him

[Albert B. Rampage]

Imperium answer my question.

[Majiffy]

one of freeze's men

[Majiffy]

Imperium answer my question.

You re-asked him after he clearly stated he was leaving to go to work.

He works night shift. Presumably sleeps after. He'll be back eventually.

[KuroiXHF]

"Man, you must suck worse at math even more than me. ...There's only two of you..."

Vote Count 1.13

MariaR

(5/7)

- Desperado, Imperium, Majiffy, Almost50, ɀefiend

Clumsy Phoenix

(4/7)

- Vifam, Not Chara, Tywin Lannister, Socrates

Desperado

(1/7)

- Alisae

Socrates

(1/7)

- MariaR

Tywin Lannister

(1/7)

- Clumsy Phoenix

Not Voting:

Albert B. Rampage

Notes:

- For those that care (only slightly relevant to the game), wagons are formatted with most amount of votes go on top and least on bottom. For those with the same amount of votes, I do this alphabetically. For votes listed on a wagon, it's listed by who voted for them chronologically. If someone in the front unvoted then revoted someone, they will go to the end.

(expired on 2017-04-04 12:55:00) until the end of Day One.
With thirteen alive, it takes seven to lynch.