Mini 1907: Oddrole Mafia IV (Game over)

[boring]

Shit, I missed the wagon changes..

VOTE: SnarkySnowman

[Rautherdir]

I've seen Chickadee mislynched way too many times to be comfortable lynching her.

[Creature]

Yes, so did Snarky.

[boring]

I've seen Chickadee mislynched way too many times to be comfortable lynching her.

Do you have any examples you could pull up?

[Rautherdir]

Every game I have played with her. Which isn't that many now that I check.

[boring]

A link would speed up this process...

[eagerSnake]

VC 1.22

SnarkySnowman (5) [L-2]: GinghamDog, Almost50, Javajoe24, Rautherdir, boring
Chickadee (2) [L-5]: Desperado, GuiltyLion
Almost50 (2) [L-5]: SnarkySnowman, Creature
GinghamDog (1) [L-6]: massive

Not Voting (3): Chickadee, TheBrie, podoboq

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline in (expired on 2017-05-19 12:33:03).

[Chickadee]

rule #1 of fakeclaiming is that you have to be able to prove it. there is no way for me to be fakeclaiming a role that must necessarily be confirmed by another player. and my target has essentially already confirmed if you're reading closely enough

You are not confirmed. If you're scum, one of your partners can 'confirm' for you. I'm inclined to believe your claim for now, but stop acting like you're confirmed.

Sorry, I'm behind on this game. Summer schedule starts tomorrow, so I should be able to reread and catch up soon.

I'm not a fan of Desperado's claim. Setup spec for me would suggest that it shouldn't be in the game, but it's obviously a really dangerous claim for scum to make day one. Still unsure what I want to do there, but for right now, I'm erring on the side of just lynch it.

Just Lynch it. In a game this small, that is ridiculously anti-town.

I've seen Chickadee mislynched way too many times to be comfortable lynching her.

Do you have any examples you could pull up?

Literally every one of my games as town. I cannot provide links, as I've been long dead and they're all still ongoing.

My join date of 2011 is misleading. I basically joined and took a super long hiatus, and am just coming back in the last few months.

But seriously, I am mislynched super early in every game as town. It's getting ridiculous.

[Chickadee]

VOTE: Snarky

I can get on this wagon. I don't know that it's the best wagon, but I can see the merit in it, and day is coming to an end fairly soon. And at the rate this game is going, it will be here before we know it.

SNARKY IS AT L-1

^just so it's not missed

[TheBrie]

I'm willing to lynch Snarky. Not sure it's the best choice, but though I'm uncertain about Desperado's claim, I know we're not going that way today. And no one else I have a decent sized suspicion on has a vote.

But I don't want to rush this. I won't hammer until the last 12 hours.

I'm doing some ISO and will have more thoughts in a bit.

[TheBrie]

You would have had access to the scum chat if you were scum. Which would have most definitely clued you in that it was a night start. Therefore, it was a town slip as only town would legitimately do that.

Also Desperado, if the person who received the CPR training is scum, they could just kill you to prevent themselves from being outed. Or scum could just kill you anyways to prevent a somewhat decent ability from getting around.

Maybe I've missed something but I can't figure out who the first part of this is addressed to. I tho8ugh I'd know at the time, but can't remember. Who made the town slip?

[TheBrie]

Massive: Okay, townish
Podo: Okay
Creature: Doesn't make sense.
Rautherdir: Some of what he's said about Desperado gives me a connection between them. But I'm still inclined to see him as town.
Chickadee: I'll take as town for now.
Boring: Also townie
Almost50: Townish
Desperado: I'm inclined to take the just lynch it route. I don't like his role even as town. But I'm uncertain.
Java: I wish he's be more active or get replaced.
Gingham: Seems slightly different to my last game with her, but could just be rl busyness. Anyway she's not scum with Desp.
GuiltyLion: Null, he's been absent from this game lately.

I really need to get more scum reads. I'm used to there only being two and only focus on one. Three and a 3P is harder.

[eagerSnake]

VC 1.23

SnarkySnowman (6) [L-1]: GinghamDog, Almost50, Javajoe24, Rautherdir, boring, Chickadee
Chickadee (2) [L-5]: Desperado, GuiltyLion
Almost50 (2) [L-5]: SnarkySnowman, Creature
GinghamDog (1) [L-6]: massive

Not Voting (2): TheBrie, podoboq

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline in (expired on 2017-05-19 12:33:03).

[Rautherdir]

You would have had access to the scum chat if you were scum. Which would have most definitely clued you in that it was a night start. Therefore, it was a town slip as only town would legitimately do that.

Also Desperado, if the person who received the CPR training is scum, they could just kill you to prevent themselves from being outed. Or scum could just kill you anyways to prevent a somewhat decent ability from getting around.

Maybe I've missed something but I can't figure out who the first part of this is addressed to. I tho8ugh I'd know at the time, but can't remember. Who made the town slip?

It was to Snarky.

And since we've gotten to this:

No one hammer Snarky without posting intent and giving him the chance to claim

[podoboq]

Reading up now. Nobody hammer Snarky. Seriously, just don't hammer Snarky.

[Rautherdir]

I just said that but I guess it bears repeating.

Anyone who hammers Snarky without first posting intent to hammer, and giving Snarky a chance to claim will be lynched day 2 for scum-claiming.

[podoboq]

I just said that but I guess it bears repeating.

Anyone who hammers Snarky without first posting intent to hammer, and giving Snarky a chance to claim will be lynched day 2 for scum-claiming.

Just in case.

[podoboq]

This is just gonna be a scattershot, train of thought catch up. It's also gonna be long. This is up to and through page 5.

vote: chickadee

post 8 is 100% scumtalk

This looked like a joke RVS vote, but for some reason he stood by it. Saying "congrats on everyone for not dying" isn't scummy or towny. It's completely NAI, and Desperado tunneling her for posting it is incredibly strange to me. I just don't see a person being that bad at the game.

Spoiler: good things

vote: chickadee

post 8 is 100% scumtalk

Seriously though, this is BS.

Townreading Gingham for this.

Also, I don't read much into chickadees comment about no one dying. I am just RVS voting her for dissing my favorite beverage... I realize we don't have much to go on yet, but I do not read their comment as scummy.

Townreading javajoe for this.

The lack of N0 kills will probably give us some good information down the road. There's no need to rush it. Also, it doesn't look like we're going to be plagued by shit-posting this game, so RVS will probably end soon enough.

Townreading boring for this.

UNVOTE:

I have nothing against JavaJoe at the moment, so I don't see a need for there to be three votes on him right now.

I read this as town. I don't think scum would voluntarily do this, unless they are trying to get town cred, which is possible considering how they pointed it out along with the un vote.

Thoughts?

I like this guy.

Chickadee (1) [L-6]:

Desperado

GuiltyLion (1) [L-6]:

podoboq

podoboq (1) [L-6]:

boring

SnarkySnowman (1) [L-6]:

Rautherdir

Desperado (1) [L-6]:

GinghamDog

Almost50 (1) [L-6]:

TheBrie

I might vig one of the bolded players.

Vanity wagoners.

One thing I hate the most in mafia games is misrepping. Presenting a RVS vote that someone hasn't moved off of within the first <48 hours of the game as a "vanity wagon" is a misrep. He threatens the players to move off of their RVS. I don't understand to what end he would be doing this as scum, so I don't necessarily think it's scummy, but it is antitown gameplay.

Well vig doesn't really seem like a very rare role to me... And if we are going to go over what might have happened last night, I will say that my role does not have the ability to protect itself or anyone else, so I have no information for you.

This was exceptionally bad. Not inherently scummy, but definitely bad.

Brie and Joe are already giving out way too much role information. RVS is over for me.

UNVOTE:

I have to agree. Brie, Joe, too much information. It just helps scum figure out who is who.

Brie had not outed anything role related at this point, so this looks really weird.

Brie and Joe are already giving out way too much role information. RVS is over for me.

UNVOTE:

I have to agree. Brie, Joe, too much information. It just helps scum figure out who is who.

scum in this pair, guaranteed

On the reread, this makes me like Desperado a bit. Heavily reconsidering my scumread of him now. I wouldn't say scum is guaranteed in that pair, but he picked up on the same thing that I picked up on, which I like.

Spoiler: Almost50 is a good player

Well vig doesn't really seem like a very rare role to me... And if we are going to go over what might have happened last night, I will say that my role does not have the ability to protect itself or anyone else, so I have no information for you.

If we start claiming "who DOESN'T have the ability to protect people," you're gonna narrow down the pool for a night kill real quick.

^^ Possibly Town. I too was thinking why Java felt the need to declare that bit about his role. In fact, I could brush off Creature's Vig and Chicka's crumb at being a protective as being jokey, but I don't feel like Java was joking at all.

Well played, champ. (@Java)

Brie and Joe are already giving out way too much role information. RVS is over for me.

UNVOTE:

I have to agree. Brie, Joe, too much information. It just helps scum figure out who is who.

scum in this pair, guaranteed

I can hardly agree. Scum would probably keep silent about it and share the info between themselves, analyze it and try to determine their best strategy. Outing who has crumbed what isn't in scum's best interest, because it also let's informative/protective roles know who is likely to get NK'd next if it somehow went right above their heads.

Oh, and to reiterate.. TOWN should've also let it go. What I'm saying is that was more likely bad town play than bad scum play.

VOTE: Chickadee between my tingling and Snarky's vote, I'm cool here. He's a low-poster, but he has a good eye.

Vote looks terrible. Never sheep Snarky.

[boring]

@podoboq - Are you back on that? a) I wasn't feeling great about Chicka to begin with, and b) I've seen Snarky play two games, and in both he was well better than 50/50 in his reads. Those two together made it a good early vote in my book.

Also, TheBrie had outed that she wasn't a protector by proxy. That shrinks the bucket for scum to shoot in.

Finally, what's there to townread in 45 or 48? You don't think they're just as easy to post as scum?

[Desperado]

You are not confirmed. If you're scum, one of your partners can 'confirm' for you. I'm inclined to believe your claim for now, but stop acting like you're confirmed.

I've already explained how this hypothetical nefarious scum plot is not a reasonable expectation.

[podoboq]

On to page 6-10.

Spoiler: Gingham and Guilty are town

Town-leaning on Creature based on his meta. He's actually participating in this game, which is a common town tell for him specifically. He was SK last time and getting him to post was like pulling teeth. But I'm only leaning town, since I find him to be a particularly obtuse player at times, and meta changes.

Not feeling the Chick wagon right now. Her tone vaguely reminds me of last game where she was a friendly under-the-radar scum, but it's too early to tell.

Brie probably town. Java looks like dopey town thus far.

Honestly I have no scum reads at the moment. Don't like Snarky's 106, but I don't know him and can't sort him yet. Boring's 109 is pretty bad, but is it bad town or scum? Dunno yet.

I'm semi-V/LA right now and for the next few days, so I apologize I don't have better reads right now. Literally had ten minutes to read the thread and post something.

Gingham I do want you to answer my question about Desperado when you have time

Gingham I do want you to answer my question about Desperado when you have time

I thought it was a bad vote but I wouldn't say scummy. I say it's a bad vote because Chick's comment that prompted it is the kind of conversational flavor I would say myself as either alignment, and I wouldn't appreciate it being scum-read. Not enough from Desperado yet to comment further.

I thought it was a bad vote but I wouldn't say scummy. I say it's a bad vote because Chick's comment that prompted it is the kind of conversational flavor I would say myself as either alignment, and I wouldn't appreciate it being scum-read.

I guess I just don't understand why you'd jump in to try to push against the vote in 21 and then not go further with 42

like, if Desperado is scumreading someone for bad reasons, isn't that more likely to make him scum? And if he's not, like if you are actually not seeing anything scum-motivated in his push, then why shut it down when it might give everyone more to work with to get reads? Most pushes on page 1 are not gonna be really substantially indicative things, but there's an expected bit of leniency because you know people are trying to drum up things to work with and create pressure to force more reactions. If Chickadee is scum then you are basically letting her walk and she won't have to do the work of trying to be town in responding to Desperado

I doubt Desperado really believes post 8 comes from scum 100% of the time, so he's either town exaggerating to add more force to his vote or scum exaggerating to sell a fake scumread. I don't get why you didn't engage with him beyond just calling out that you disagree with his reasons for making a vote.

Meh, fair enough. To be honest, I've put very little thought into this game due to real life, so my play hasn't been up to standard.

In my experience, scum reading someone for bad reasons is just as likely to be town, if not more likely. You might disagree. I'll concede though that I should have toyed with Desperado more than I did.

Can you share your thoughts on this Chickadee wagon? You don't seem to mind it. Does it look like wagon for the sake of being a wagon or do you think it's an early scum-drive?

Brie and Joe are already giving out way too much role information. RVS is over for me.

UNVOTE:

I have to agree. Brie, Joe, too much information. It just helps scum figure out who is who.

scum in this pair, guaranteed

What are you seeing here exactly?

Spoiler: This post came across as incredibly forced, and reminded me of playing scum with her last game. I wanted to push it and see if it continued, but it didn't, so I let it go. Specifically, I think at the point that she's giving a full readslist, no matter how bad that list is, she no longer looks at all like she did in Oddrole III.

VOTE: Chickadee between my tingling and Snarky's vote, I'm cool here. He's a low-poster, but he has a good eye.

What

VOTE: Chickadee

The

VOTE: Chickadee between my tingling and Snarky's vote, I'm cool here. He's a low-poster, but he has a good eye.

Your reasoning is "because SS voted there"???

VOTE: Chickadee

And I guess yours is "because boring said she voted there because Snarky voted there"?!

OK.. intent to vote Chicadee because I want to sheep Creature who is sheeping boring who is sheeping Snarky who got a vote on Chicadee out of nowhere. Boy, that sounds like the best reasoning ever.

Frick

My reasoning is because it was a great opportunity to begin with a wagon.

Is

I didn't feel JavaJoe24 would be a good wagon.

Going

We need to find activity. Maybe we can find activity by putting non-active players under the threat of being lynched?

On?




If you're trying to put pressure on low activity players, why me? I'm tied for second highest post count. I'm involved with the game. The entire wagon against me seems super scummy. It's weak, and there's not even a case being brought against me.

I now actually want to leave my vote on you for that 'town' slip.

Can you elaborate on this so the whole class can know what you're talking about?

The point in question is that Snarky didn't or as I am claiming pretended not to know this game was a night start, when mafia would know for certain this game was a night start, as mafia made an action or possibly just talked during the night. My case is that such a 'slip' is extremely easy to fake as scum.

This is a really good point, but Snarky is more likely to be genuinely clueless than feign cluelessness. I'm saying this as one of the players of TheFappening, where scum!Snarky lasted the entire game just claiming to not know the rules and breaking them. If you hate yourself, go read it sometime.

I don't really buy the explanation for this vote because you haven't attempted to interact with Chickadee at all yourself, what did you think of her 43?

It's gobbledygook. It's something written by someone who has no investment or experience with what they're saying, like something written by upper management for the shift workers in a factory. "Having town numbers up?" That's not "helpful in the long run." That's the only way town wins.

I also consider "congratulations on not dying" a solid scum tell.

Maybe me saying "curious" about Chickadee's posts is not the correct word, but I was working off of JavaJoe's phrasing, specifically about 8. It's one scum tell at that point, it COULD be from sloppy town, but JavaJoe's blanket indifference to it was weird to me.

I also consider 136 "scum caught for the wrong reasons." There's a whoooooole lot of scumtells going on with her.

Could definitely move to Chickadee.

I like this pots. I think Chickadee is town, but I'm getting that from explicitly meta reasons. Without that meta, I agree that most of this stuff (not post 8) is scummy, and I think it's good that massive pulled out the same things.

UNVOTE:
Alright, she's good. I was voting Chick because I felt like I would be able to read any significant difference between her play in Oddrole III and here, so if we put some pressure on her it would bring out her scuminess if it was there and reveal her towniness if it wasn't.

I don't get what's so encouraging about her reads list. I find it disturbing that anyone would have so many reads so early in the game. It just seems forced, which is my problem with her in the first place. And I'm not sure if you noticed, but it's ridiculously OMGUS.

More than anything, your response strikes me as someone looking for an excuse,

any

excuse, to unvote. It's frickin' weird.

This post is understandable. I was a little handwavey with my turn around on Chickadee.

I'm 'ditsy' because I haven't played with this many people before and I actually have to worry about what people think. Last game I became conf town and that gave me more freedom.

Also I've been seesawing in whether I should give my information. I think its usefulness to town is greater than its usefulness to scum, but I haven't been sure claiming is a good idea.
Anyway here it is: I'm Census Taker. Once a game I can ask how many alive players there are of each alignment.
There's 3 mafia, 1 third-party, and 9 town aligned player.

This is a perfect explanation, and I completely believe it. I can picture myself in TheBrie's shoes, and I can imagine playing incredibly differently and a little weird because of it. I like her post a lot. She's probably my biggest townread after this post.

[SnarkySnowman]

I'm at L-1 huh? I'll claim if someone has intent. I would really rather not claim though.

[podoboq]

@podoboq - Are you back on that? a) I wasn't feeling great about Chicka to begin with, and b) I've seen Snarky play two games, and in both he was well better than 50/50 in his reads. Those two together made it a good early vote in my book.

Also, TheBrie had outed that she wasn't a protector by proxy. That shrinks the bucket for scum to shoot in.

Finally, what's there to townread in 45 or 48? You don't think they're just as easy to post as scum?

I'd rather finish my reread and catch up than respond to stuff right now, but I can break for this.

Yes, I'm back on stuff, and thanks for being incredibly specific by telling me which thing you were talking about. I'm just doing some stream of consciousness stuff, and anything that's a little pingy that I can form solid thoughts on, I'm going to do so. Try not to be too surprised by that.

I've just seen Snarky be a dead fish as either alignment. None of her reads are better than a coinflip as far as I'm concerned. And your post (perhaps accidentally) places more weight on Snarky's useless vote there than any vague "tingling" you had prior which clearly was not good enough on its own. It's a bad vote.

I agree, though as town lost the game where we had info based on n0 deaths, this might turn out better. We have the knowledge that kills were blocked.

This is not "outing that she wasn't a protector." Nothing was. She did nothing that implied or outed abilities that her role did or didn't have.

Early in the game, I townread people who I agree with. Maybe that's a flaw, but it's true. Thinking post 8 is scummy is stupid and bad. People who took offense to that are smart and good. I like smart and good players.

[podoboq]

I'm at L-1 huh? I'll claim if someone has intent. I would really rather not claim though.

Snarky, before claiming, let me know that you intend to claim. Don't claim before I post.

[podoboq]

Going to get coffee and some nibs before getting to 11-15.