Mini Normal 1920 (Game Over)
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TOWN
I really liked MMM's early thoughts and interactions with Mulch in 113 and 165, was one of the bits of sanity in the thread at the time and the excessive amount of scum reads v town reads in his 228 is something I can relate to given I had the same feeling at that point of time, find a lot of his reads and thoughts there pretty understandable. I also found his outburst in 345 very natural and genuine, how people are reading that and going "cold/calcuated" is pretty mindboggling; same goes for his post-replace out reads list and sheer frustration in 474, there's a particular line in there I don't thinkevercomes from scum. Chicka's posting thus far has been pretty decent too, how this is the leading wagon is just a testament to the state of the site at the moment.
Liked Grey's unvote of MMM in 478 as well as the focus towards LMK in 612 coupled with his reasoning in 625 both are things I can very much agree with. Similarly like the handling of LUV in 697 and 708 where I've seen Grey take advantage of players like LUV by letting them do the dirty work for him as scum in the past. Also like his handling and interaction with FF though I'm far less paranoid there then he is, only thing that's stopping him from being up in the super strong town area is the vote back on Chikadee in 763; the reasoning for moving off LMK is reasonable but how that translates into moving back to the MMM slot over Tchill I don't follow.
Gerrys analysis of Eeves reaction towards Mulch moving off Bomberman to him in 486 is actually very good and like him spotting the same thing I did with Massives MMM vote in 488. The push on LUV and "want to hold some things back" in 507 reads kind of natural combined with 512.
I agree with a lot of FF's reasoning behind scum reading Tchill in 212, most specifically his explanation behind Tchills trateement of Mulch and think his 215 feels like it points against it being a buss attempt which means if Tchill is actually mafia that's a pretty huge point towards FF being town. I don't hate his thoughts and reads shared inside 332 but the transition and confidence move towards MMM over Tchill isn't great, the conviction behind the MMM read and the attempt to actually force it through doesn't feel particularly fake though and it's a move that I'm not quite sure he'd make as scum given the blow-back from it.-
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SCUM
Peoples, most notably Greys reasoning for scum reading LMK isn't too bad at all, for the record if he's mafia his 336 kind of has him slipping that Mulch is town, not hugely relevant now but something for people to remember to go back to if either ever flip scum. The lack of real stances and vote placed there feels more like him attempting to not actually make any waves at all which is something fairly typical from newer scum players.
Not a fan of the reasoning Massive used to slip onto MMM in 257, it's very lazy vote without much real deep thought process shown behind it at all and the maintenance of the vote arguing that MMM's "Caught for the wrong reasons" and lack of real thoughts elsewhere feels opportunistic.
Dislike Eeves reaction towards Mulch's vote switch in 184 and the interaction that follows from it is pretty hard to read and him going from listing LMK as a possible scum read in 266 to unvoting him two posts and 6 minutes later is ??? There's actually very little content from him despite his huge post count which isn't a great sign and always find things like 513 to come far more often from S->T interactions.
Tchills interaction with Mulch in the early game is hugely awkward, the question of what she makes of Bomber in 139 to her answering she doesn't know but he's wrong to him voting Bomber in 151 is a really scum motivated progression and one that's really unnatural to come from town. The constant re-stating that Mulch is town without any real deep analysis anywhere there doesn't feel like town thinking about the game but then Mulch dropping to null in 440 with no explained progression is a pretty big scum tell. His stance on day lengths in 443 pretty massively contradicts what he voting LUV for initially in 406 and the explanation that he voted for 'reactions' isn't one that really makes sense there. His reasoning for dropping the town read on LUV and town reading Grey in 721 is pretty ??? too. I really have a lot of trouble seeing a lot of his thought processes coming from town here, they don't really run smoothly at all.-
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@Grey, who's town here dude? Why are you voting the MMM slot again? I'd say there's minimum 1 scum inside Tchill/Evee,possiblytwo but there's a few small things that make me think they're not S/S, thoughts on that? Also if you know who I am keep it to yourself, please.
@Dannyboy, talk to me more about your analysis of the MMM wagon; what about FF's vote and push do you like? If you had to pick three people to be town or one person to be mafia and you lose if the option you pick is incorrect what do you select, who and why?
@Massive, what's your current read on Mulch and what's your assessment of Chikadee's posting thus far; has it changed your read on MMM's slot at all?-
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Personally I think Mulch might actually be completely spewed town. I think LMK/Mulch, Tchill/Mulch, Eeve/Mulch are never actually things so unless all three of them are somehow town I think the odds she's town from that alone is pretty huge. But I'll spend time going through her ISO tomorrow, will also go through LUV's then too.-
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In post 869, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Who's alt?Spoiler:
But on a more serious note, want to discuss my actual reads that I put down? You've been waiting for someone to elaborate on their town read on MMM, I've done that and they're my strongest town read by some distance, maybe discuss that or my scum read on Tchill or something?
You say this but you didn't actually put another vote down for ~25 hours after unvoting LMK, so what's the motivation behind unvoting one scum read to have your vote on no one for that period of time? Like how did that help you at all? Would like you to elaborate on your reasoning behind your town read on Mulch if you can, would also like you to pick any 2 other players in the game you think you haveIn post 871, EeveeLution Army wrote:Replacedini unvoted lmk back then because my scumread on him was mostly activity based and i had someone else that i could get info on.Which lead me to an eventually slight townread on mulch.deepthoughts about and elaborate on them for me.-
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@Evee - What prevented you from having 'discussion' while maintaining your vote on LMK? Like you're not really answering my question here. Can you be a little more specific about LUV for me; which pushes exactly of his do you find scum motivated and why his rather than anyone elses?
@LUV - I think a lot of your points in that points against MMM are pretty silly and not really alignment indicative? I don't think he 'constantly ignored answering' your question at all. You're also misreading MMM's tiers, it's [town, null, scum] with the coloured people in the null territory people he think could be scum due to their lack of content archetype fitting with how he thinks scum play rather than just scum reading their posting itself. He wasn't ever 'lying' there, it was people not reading his posts and I can very much understand why he was so frustrated there. I very much think you're wrong on the slot and think you need to take a step back and have another look at it because that slots absolutely town. Maybe take a look at Tchill and my scum read on him while you're doing it too.-
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Sure, Chickadee replaced MMM and I replaced Bomberman. Can you expand a little more about your read on Tchill for me please. I think there's a lot of fairly solid reasoning behind him being mafia here ranging from his interactions with Mulch inside the early game coming across very awkwardly in a fashion that makes sense with scum->town type interactions there. His read progression and reads throughout the game being pretty non-existent and very difficult to follow. His interactions with GreyICE and his treatment of LUV all making a lot more sense as scum and think in comparison the reasoning you've presented for Massive while true is much weaker, so maybe try and explain the "Unsure" read on Tchill, is there something from him you think that negates the points mentioned above (if so what) or do you just disagree with the strength of them here?In post 879, iDanyboy wrote:Could you just remind me who replaced who?-
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@Mulch - Vote Tmchill (See how worthless statements like this are, now stop doing them).
@Danny - It's not that Tchill town read Mulch and asked her a question; it's he asked her a question that insinuated he wanted her approval for him eventually moving his vote, when she didn't he moved anyway, it's a 'what's the point of waiting for an answer then' type thing. Got any particular read of mine you want to bounce some thoughts around about?
@Massive - I'd not consider this a 'long D1' it's been ~6 RL days so shouldn't be conf-biasing reads this early on at all. I don't think Chickadees been that fluffy and 'formed reads but no workings to get there' is pretty natural for most people upon replacing in, it's a lot of information at once, you have reads based on it but aren't able to put them together as nicely as you'd like. I think you like LUV are misconstruing what MMM had posted, his middle section was null reads that he thinks fit the archetype of scum that aren't posting as much, do you think it's implausible to lump you in that category regardless of what your meta is like? I'd have found it suspicious if hedidhighlight other names that are low-content and not include you so you scum reading that is pretty unreasonable and illogical.
@LUV - You are misinterpreting his reads, take a look at the spoilered quotes below, it's him not him scum reading their posting itself but rather admitting the lack of content generated from them makes sense as scum, that differs from a scum read and is more a "Keep an eye on these posters" type read which is pretty understandable. How you're attempting to accuse him of lying over this is pretty mind-boggling stuff and if you're actually town maybe step back and look at it from his shoes, you'll notice why he was getting frustrated then and maybe could actually step back and reassess.
Man, you're a better player than to actually believe the bolded here, "hmm, what scum motivation is there not to put someone to L-1 or join the leading wagon late on it". Like Tchill not voting MMM should have minimal impact on your read on MMM and doesn't change the fact that slot is town and there's lots of reasoning that should lead you towards that. Run me through the Evee town read please because apparently I'm bad. I'll also take words on your town read on iDanny because I'm getting sort of ~weak town feels~ from him but haven't been able to really lock that down.In post 901, GreyICE wrote:Anyway thoughts currently are that tchill's slide onto LMK is like... disconcerting and weirdly positioned.If we assume the tchill slot is scum (good assumption) then why isn't he on the mmm wagon? Mmmm?
Would also lynch tchill because, well, he's scum.
Strong town is idany, Uzi, Eevee, Mulch. Anyone scumreading them is bad.-
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@GreyICE - Think even 'newbie' scum know that putting someone to L-1 or jumping on a wagon late is a bad move? I've taken a look and he's got two completed scum games already so he's by no means completely green. Again, none of this is changes the fact that the MMM slot is town regardless of Tchills alignment or his voting habits. You know this too. What, MMM gets mad that he's getting pushed for the wrong reasons as scum? Replaces out, posts his reads and requests dead QT access? Huh. Not a thing. Slot is 100% town here.
I...don't really agree with any of your reasoning behind the Eeve town read at all? Walk me through it like I'm 5. I don't think scum 'avoid interacting with Mulch' at all and find the angle that Eeve took as well as her floating posts more likely to come from scum here. The only thing I agree with you on is the spat is that Mulch doesn't' come out of it pretty either.
But work with me here? Joined largely for you, pretty unlikely we're both around D2 so maybe expand on the iDanny read for me? I'm more than happy to expand on anything of mine that you disagree with / want to hear more about so feel free to ask, caveat of this being I've not read enough of Mulch/LUV to have a discussion on them yet.-
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@LUV - This is the last time I'll attempt to reach you on this point. MMM had town reads (Top line) and scum reads (Bottom line), this is impossible to argue about. His list in the middle was desgined to be his null reads but in there he highlighted the players the thinks could fit a specific scum archetype, he's not scum reading them per-say but admitting they could potentially be scum, this is a completely reasonable thing for him to do. This shouldn't be hard to grasp, Massives vote there for calling Massive a lower content player was defensive as MMM's point about his lack of content wasn't untrue and MMM wasn't actually attempting to push Massive on this at all, in fact he'd not even dropped Massive down to his bottom line. This is why he was getting frustrated, because no one was attempting to look at things from his PoE and you're continuing not to do so. Like I can understand why both Bomberman and MMM replaced out just from this little interaction I've had with you so far.
What does a MMM!Town flip do to help you solve Tchill and what does a MMM!Scum flip do for you because that last line from you feels throwaway.-
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You're voting the only person in the game I'd bank the game being town at the moment GreyICE. And I did invest initially, I elaborated in pretty deep detail why I think Tchill is mafia, I also elaborated on why the MMM slot is town, you seem to agree with the Tchill scum read as does a few other people but no one is moving across, shouldn't that tell you that he's a hit more times than not for that alone? I disagree with "MMM being scummy pre-replace out", I've stated why. I also think that MMM's replace out reads post and request for dead QT is something you should be acknowledging just never comes from scum. What's he need access there for if he's mafia and he knows the scum team? He's not making that comment to get town read imo, he's not that good a player, it's something he genuinely wanted. I also don't really see your issue with Chickadee's posting, her read on Tchill isn't bad? Her read on LVU isn't something I really agree with reasoning wise but I think she believes it which is what matters?-
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@Massive - Don't think not highlighting Mulch is unreasonable given her 96. She couldn't really be considered 'low content' albeit I think she's sort of moved towards far less analysis and more fluffy posts as the games progressed which isn't great. Would argue that FF's 212 excluded him from that pool and he'd had a town read on FF making that argument fairly irrelevant. He'd also had a town read on Danny and he'd had a scum read on Gerry that both didn't have anything to do with lack of content posted so I'd point that his reads make a lot of sense there and it's you taking it way too personally rather than considering it from his PoV. If the mod comes into the thread and confirms the MM slot as town who do you think looks the worst / is most likely mafia in the game and why?-
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Don't really like Tchills reaction towards the scum reads and move towards Evee.
Also not really liking Grey's focus here but more in a 'he's better than that' than a 'that's scummy' way.
Not really. I'm an alt for a reason, admittedly one that's probably fairly obvious to those that know me but suffice it to say I've seen him play. I'd imagine you and Chicka know each others games pretty well, there a particular reason you've not attempted to interact with her or commented on her play in any real depth (And "Because I already know the slots scum" is not a reasonable answer). What do you think of her reasoning behind calling you town?In post 981, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Saw you ignored this RI? Wanna talk about it?-
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Followed along with part of Mini Normal 1908 where I saw MMM's scum game and it was pretty atrocious, I'd not consider him a scum mastermind despite him winning that game and don't think he'd have been able to pull off some of the things he's done here. But this isn't really a meta read, more a "Slots blatantly town via his play and replace out posts" read.
This shouldn't be allowed, pretty sure it's a either a rule break of an abuse of powers.In post 984, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I was informed of who you are shortly after.-
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I don't agree that MMM's posts were scummy at all? I've not understoodanythingabout the wagon on him. And by "Disliking your focus" I mean having a back and forth Mulch that isn't really going anywhere other than just making it even clearer the caliber of player he is might be fun and true and all but doesn't really help towards actually solving the game whereas talking over reads that we disagree on entirely or reads where we have very different reads strengths is what's going to actually move the game forward properly, I'll be your Llamarble; work with me.
I went into the Tchill scum read pretty extensively here, what about it do you disagree with if anything?In post 867, ReplacedIn wrote: Tchills interaction with Mulch in the early game is hugely awkward, the question of what she makes of Bomber in 139 to her answering she doesn't know but he's wrong to him voting Bomber in 151 is a really scum motivated progression and one that's really unnatural to come from town. The constant re-stating that Mulch is town without any real deep analysis anywhere there doesn't feel like town thinking about the game but then Mulch dropping to null in 440 with no explained progression is a pretty big scum tell. His stance on day lengths in 443 pretty massively contradicts what he voting LUV for initially in 406 and the explanation that he voted for 'reactions' isn't one that really makes sense there. His reasoning for dropping the town read on LUV and town reading Grey in 721 is pretty ??? too. I really have a lot of trouble seeing a lot of his thought processes coming from town here, they don't really run smoothly at all.-
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Not reading either of those as scummy? Bad play, probably? But nothing more than that, I'm finding his push on LUV as something he believes in regardless of the level of logic attached with the push. Would also argue that stating he "torpedoed" when it was ~2 RL days into the day phase is pretty inaccurate, not unusual for players to get overly-convinced about their own reasoning very early on to step back and reassess as town. I also think his self-vote and frustration post is due to his annoyance that people aren't actually reading his posts properly (notable with Massive's vote on MMM for instance) and think it's one that came up fairly naturally. Would add that when reading through the thread I had a similar level of "The fuck did I just join, this is a lot of shit awful play" and thought a lot of that from players directed at him.
Think there's enough re; his replace out type posts that should over-power that regardless of how you're reading those posts anyway so shrug?
What's your thoughts on Mulch probably just being spewed town here? There's probably ~5 players I just flat out can't see her ever being scum with in the game which makes the worlds that she's even possible to be mafia in to begin with pretty small and I think none of those worlds are particularly realistic.-
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Eh, not really what I was asking -- more referring to I think Mulch has very little possible partners if he's mafia here (With none really being my scum reads) and that greatly increases the odds of him being town rather than a "His play doesn't look like scum" type thing which I won't be able to comment on till I read his catastrophe of an ISO.
As someone that replaces in a lot I think the stigma with replacements being scum more often is kind of incorrect in that I've only replaced in as scum twice out of ~20 replace though I selectively replace in a bit. Wouldn't say the notion of replacing out is a town-tell though but the manner that MMM replaced out showed he was genuinely frustrated with the game, it's plausible he was frustrated with how he was being treated as scum sure, but I don't think his last post happens and I most certainly don't think he requests dead QT access in that case.-
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I care. I want to attempt to narrow this down as close as possible while I'm here, being able to rule players out goes a long way to doing that.In post 997, GreyICE wrote:Oh who cares about potential partners. Why are we even discussing mulch? I want to discuss people we're going to lynch not people we'd never lynch in a million years day 1.
I don't mind her reads overall but as for her posting it doesn't do much for me either way and given she's only replaced in ~36 hours ago that's not a huge concern?In post 997, GreyICE wrote:So set aside your bias for a moment, because you know I'm not bad at this. Does Chickadee's posts really remind you of town?-
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I think regardless of her alignment focusing on LUV more than anyone else is a natural thing given their relationship, I don't think that's a scum tell at all here. I again thinking the statement of "ignore x players" is unfair given the short time she's been in the game, if it was a pattern over a long period of time I'd agree but as is I think means nothing. The "Call out lurkers" isn't an awful point at all and probably the only one I'd agree with being a thing since the "Vote most plausible non-you wagon" is incorrect given she was the first to vote Tchill when Lmk had 2 votes at the time.-
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Grey's meta link grab with Tchills two posts is pretty solid, it's not just the fact that comments are similar like the "don't out PRs" or "not going to advocate my own Lynch" but the attitude being so similar is very damning. Would like to see content from FF, Arona and the LMK slot that's almost certainly getting replaced before we actually Lynch though.
Hate to say it but I don't like Chickadees push and interactions with Mulch here at all. Don't see what she's getting out of it and the attempt to call "not confident he's not scum" and "maybe more town I guess" a red flag is very weak. I'd much rather she spend her time elaborating on her reads she's stated when catching up. The slots probably town but not really comfortable having her in the locktown category after that exchange.
Think tchill-mulch and tchill-Evee are very probably unaligned so a scum flip is a good look on both of them, also think Grey/Gerry/FF look good for earlier pushes on him too but this is something that people can spend more time looking at if tchill flips mafia.-
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His statement started with "if Tchill flips mafia" you posting this is effectively a scum claim, you realise this. Right?In post 1064, Tchill13 wrote:If LUV isn't scum they'll obviously kill you then push for the autolynch. If you DON'T die then you're just gonna push LUV since he didn't kill you because if he did kill you yall would have auto lynched.-
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I'm around FF but only on a phone at work. Can talk once you've caught up.
You're arguing that Gerry's plans flawed by stating how mafia can abuse it when his plan begins with you flipping scum. If you're town his plan falls apart upon your lynch anyway making the point you're arguing very nonsensical.In post 1068, Tchill13 wrote:But how can I scum claim... When I'm not scum?-
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Pretty sure you'll get my opinion on all of those things via reading the thread? If you want a short summary though I like a lot of your reasoning behind your early Tchill scum read and its a read I agree with very much.
I'm not sold on the MMM slot being scum, based on MMMs play himself and his replace out post I think that slot is very likely town, Chickadees recent posting hasn't really helped that at all though, find her push and reasoning on Mulch pretty cringe worthy. I think the stagnation of some of the voters on the MMM wagon that got on for some particularly skeevy reasoning and aren't players I town read is a serious concern.
I have a much smaller pool of players I'm confident are town than I'd normally have and that I'd like and a pretty small group of weak town reads too, pretty much a lot of slots I think are scum or that I'd not cry if they'd died in the night. None of this is particularly warming-
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I've gone into MMM and his replace out pretty extensively in my ISO, not really a topic I want to waste more time on personally.
Can understand the "Sounding board / hydra = easier" stance, much prefer playing inside hydra's or just talking about games with people when neither of us are in games myself but can't really comprehend why you haven't at least ISO'ed me before wanting to have this conversation as that'd lead towards a much smoother and easier interaction from both of our perspectives. I've given a reads list of most of my town and scum reads which can be found inside my first 4 ISO posts.
Don't really disagree in that I found the Mulch<->Gerry love of each other in the early game pretty hard to follow re; the sheer read strength but I've come around to them both being town individually and think it's more just a playstyle difference than anything else.
So lets look at the 4 current voters on the wagon [Arona, Massive, LUV and yourself]. Aronas pretty much solely focused on MMM inside his posts and has his vote dating back from #44 with him reaffirming his scum read there since and not really being very active. Massive voted MMM fairly early on too with reasoning that I really don't like, nor do I like his continued vote there or his defence of it. LUV's is probably one of the more reasonable votes but his lack of reassesment there and interaction with it despite him knowing the slot holder well isn't great? And your vote is from earlier too and while I've got a ~weakish town read on you, it's not one where I can say I relate to the read at all, nor do I think you're an up to date and active player. So when you look at the wagon composition I can easily see there being scum that are comfortable just parking themselves there. Hoping that explains it a little clearer.In post 1079, Formerfish wrote:"I think the stagnation of some of the voters on the MMM wagon that got on for some particularly skeevy reasoning and aren't players I town read is a serious concern."- this is a confusing sentence, can you clarify?-
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You're completely missing the point here and I'm really not sure how. So, at that point in the game he has "people he thinks are town, people he thinks are mafia and people he doesn't have a read based on their play". Following so far? iDanny for instance was a town read of his, Gerry was a scum read. None of this is complicated. Then inside the "people he doesn't have a read based on their play" there's two groups of people - group 1) Which was at the time just Mulch, being people that have contributed a lot but he still hasn't got an idea on, and group 2) Which was the other three names, which was people he doesn't have a read on and he thinks haven't contributed thus fitting the scum archetype he considers to be a thing. You obviously belong in group 2).In post 1010, massive wrote:My point is, what's the threshold? How do I get lumped into "not enough posts so will call them as 'not wanting to be seen during RVS'" at nine posts and iDanyBoy gets a townread at ten posts? It's arbitrary and that's what I think stinks.
Want to run through this a little more, why do you think if the MMM slot is scum there'd be more scum vocally defending him then pushing him? Also um, the bolded here is aIn post 1010, massive wrote:I don't know. LUV probably steps up as he was the early counterwagon and, since, has been the most vocal pusher of MMM. From there I'd look at the active people who never voted MMM which looks like iDanyBoy, Tchill, Eevee and see if any of them were vocally shouting about MMM's innocence. You also probably go in that pile since you have been doing that, butI felt good about Gamma early onand Bomberman didn't make me feel any different.hugeconcern given Gamma has well, 0 posts inside the game so this kind of feels like you just making up reads.-
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Okay, talk with me here; if you've got town reads on Chickadee & Tchill, or at least a "I'm not really sure" read on Tchill then who do you think the other two scum are outside of LMK? Some reasoning attached would be appreciated. Who in the game are your confident town reads? Reasoning also appreciated.In post 1018, Mulch wrote:Alrighty I'm ready to hammer someone and just get some associations.
Would rather not do Tchill Or chicadee, though, I think VVV
You've claimed a few times you'll get around to gamesolving soon, now's your chance.-
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I'd kind of consider this L-2 really L-1 in that I think the second he gets put to L-1 there's a realistic chance that either Mulch hammers him or he self-hammers and not really wanting to end this day before hearing at least something from the LMK slot and from Arona. Don't think we need to run the day to deadline or anything like that but certainly some content from them before a hammer would be nice. And sure, if you want to just chat for a bit here before you actually finalise your reading that's fine. I just think I've gone over my reads on MMM & Tchill pretty extensively so far and not something I want to spend the time I can muster now doing. I'm happy to talk about other players though since strengthening/re-examining my reads there certainly would help.
My current ~townish pool is effectively GI, Gerryoat, iDanny, Mulch, yourself and the MMM slot with the Eeve slot possibly if Tchill is actually mafia.
In there I'd only really say I've got confidence in the GI, Gerryoat, Mulch and MMM reads? I can't actually translate my ~town thoughts~ on iDanny into actual words and reasoning and normally that's when I just drop the read so would like you to talk to me a bit about him if you've got time, Eeve too since outside of thinking Tchill-Eeve aren't aligned based on recent interactions I actually have a scumish read on her.
Also didn't get around to mentioning it earlier but I think the sheer speed at which GreyICE pulled up that meta comparison from Tchill (~12 minutes) and the accuracy of his reasoning points pretty strongly towards Grey actually having done a little bit of meta reading into Tchill when I'd pointed out he'd had two completed scum games and kind of think that's a decent indicator that Greys actually town here. Especially when combined with thinking his prior interaction with me came across as him genuinely attempting to analyse the game. Probably my most confident town read at the moment.-
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Yeah, your iDanny reasoning isn't too far away from where I'm at with him in that his posts, reads and reasoning look good for the most part. They're fakeable sure? But they're feeling natural, it's fairly weak reasoning and something I'd normally drop until I had something that strengthened it but it's about all I've got on him, wouldn't ask anyone to trust this read on him, I don't even trust it myself but I feel good enough about him that he's far from my lynch pool. Your read and reasoning on Eeve isn't too different from what I'm at either, I'm kind of just hoping a Tchill scum flip puts her into my town pool and I don't have to worry.
Wouldn't mind you talking a bit more about Gerry (Maybe do a quick ISO skim of him first, his posts are short) because I feel pretty happy with that read?
The meta was a post that Tchill made in this game v a post he made in a game as mafia before he was hammered and flipped scum, Mulch did hammer him.
I'm in a weirdish position with LUV in that I don't hate a lot of his posts, I can at least see where he's coming from a little with his original push on MMM but I think his lack of reassessment when where he's wrong on it has been pointed out has been underwhelming. Would expect him to interact with Chickadee a little more, think as town he'd be at least somewhat worried about mslynching her but I'm not really seeing that from his posts. I'd need to actually open up his ISO and try and see if I could follow his thought process and progressions on his reads to give you a better answer but he's overall fairly null?-
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Little confused by your town read on Massive here, even ignoring meta I'm not sure how you look at him stating he town read Gamma (who had 0 posts) and come out with town. Want to try and briefly run by what you think of his here points towards him being town?
I'd say outside of that the only reads I'd disagree with is Grey (I think there's strong logic behind him being town but can understand someone being a little more hesitant to call a read here given he's got a solid scum game) and Gerry who I'd like to hear more about re; his recent stuff. But overall your reads match mine.-
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Arona talk to me about the turn around on LUV and Chicakdee of yours (You scum read both previously) in Post #1098, detail please.
Evee, not sure how you forgot about my read on you given I touched on it in Post #867 and we'd had a back and forth following that which I'd elaborated on my issues with it a bit more, it largely boils down to not liking your focus and progressions throughout the game.
Still not really liking Massives answers to my question in #1010 and #1102 but the answer in Post #1112 is a little better. Still think his stance on the matter isn't really thought through and feels pretty empty. Think the same thing of Massives reads stated in Post #1157, none of the reads feel particularly real, the read on Gerry for instance of "He's not as engaged as when I've seen him as scum so I have him as a slight scum read" feels ???.
Feel like I just read FF slowly lose his mind when catching up here and kind of think the way it happened makes much more sense as town.
Tchills self-vote and subsequent unvote to "Catch someone hammering" is completely nonsensical and just reads as a scum gambit to attempt to doanythingto try and get town read; he's well aware there are a few players inside this game, most specifically Mulch that would hammer when someone is at L-1 regardless of alignment / the situation so him thinking that could 'do something' just doesn't flow. I also don't think he actually believes quickhammering on D1 is alignment-indicative so it just screams fake here, especially when you add the timing that it happened at re; FF questioning him.-
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GreyICE
Formerfish
Gerryoat
Mulch
Chickadee
iDannyboy
aronagrundy
Lil Uzi Vert
EeveeLution Army
Lmkguy
massive
Tchill13
(ROYGBIV system if anyones interested)
That's pretty much where I'm at ignoring interaction based reads; Tchill scum flip moves Eeve and Mulch higher up.
Would like to hear more from certain slots particularly something from the LMK slot but I'm not hugely opposed to a hammer being dropped here.-
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Unlikely to actually have time to get to this properly until tomorrow sometime, need a serious reread. Hoping Froggers posted something by then.
Uzi's "guilty" claim on GreyICE while subsequently attempting to claim that he scum reads my slot and think it's actions surrounding Chickadee means he'd have to be contemplating a Grey/Chicka/Me scum team which I don't think he can ever really believe, think Grey/Myself are pretty obviously knowingly unaligned too which makes this whole thing feel very fake? Not convinced it necessarily makes him mafia and think if it's a dumb 'fake guilty gambit' it needs to stop.
"Use an action" - No. Possibly responsible? I'd hope not but maybe?In post 1201, GreyICE wrote: 1) Post whether you used an action that might have roleblocked me last night-
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In post 1218, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Currently need more votes on Grey.In post 1221, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:In post 1218, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Currently need more votes on Grey.
Confidence level of the above and the "15 pages" thing allude to more than just a "dislike what he's doing right now" and I don't particularly think what he's doing is something he's more likely to do as mafia at all, especially when he wasn't scum read at all yesterday? But cool if this isn't a "guilty" claim then people can stop voting GreyICE because he's not mafia.In post 1223, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Giving this day 15 pages-
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@LUV - Elaborated on my town read on Grey in a lot of detail yesterday.
Jesus christ, that could have been so messy if you'd used the shot on me instead of FF given I'm ascetic. Not really a fan of that desgin-interaction. Don't see this ever being a fake claim either.In post 1245, GreyICE wrote:You fucked, son. You fucked-
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Have minimal qualms in making LUV dead at some point since not really liking his reaction to how any of this has played out at all and I've not really had a town read on him this game. Also think there's some TMI from the Tchill flip in his posting. We can talk more about the Mulch slot later, I've not liked Chickadees posting today though somaybeyou have a point there.
Anyway I need to stop posting at work but FF is pretty much always the lynch here today, odds of there being a scum roleblocker to cause another false-positive when it's only a 1-shot role is very small and the odds that the role targeted GI and FF is town is ridiculously small too. Worth spending some time looking at FF's ISO so we can talk on it but I won't have net access for a bit.-
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Please don't hammer and end the day this quickly. Would at least some time to talk about reads with Grey tomorrow when I get home.
LUV, run me through how having a 100% guilty on Chicadee matches with what you did re; GreyICE, failing to see how it meshes.
Chickadee having zero response towards LUV guiltying her and voting FF over someone who would be confirmed mafia is equally hard to understand.-
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Normal review group have moved towards setups being more town sided than they were in ~1-2 years ago so I wouldn't call it implausible to have Neapolitan alongside a cop type role in the same setup, probably not a full cop but a limited shot or even/odd one sure? I don't think the actual thing he's claimed is my concern with him though. I just find "Scum read Chicackdee -> She claims VT -> Check her -> Get Non-VT -> Vote GreyICE because you think his entrance to the day is scummy" being a progression that makes a lot of sense? If he's got Chickadee as a confirmed scum I'd expect there to be a little more either reaction testing or baiting of her or others about her moreso than a repeat of people to vote you? I also think the complete lack of attempt to analyse who fits as her partners post-result isn't great albeit it's pretty early into the day phase. Him also attempting to maintain his scum read on me here is pretty nonsensical given a) How the days panned out, b) The way claims have gone down and c) Interactions between FF-Me are very blatantly unaligned. That said there's issues with Chicakdees play too in that her maintaining this "I'm not going to address him" stance just doesn't fit with the game situation we're in.
We're pretty much confirmed to be in one of three worlds; a) FF + Chicka + 1, b) FF + LUV + 1 or c) FF + Chicaka + LUV. I think we beat c) almost all the time? I don't think he gets away with bussing her and makes three way to win it there, he'll die before then meaning it's just about looking at worlds a) and b) at the moment. We're in a pretty good position considering we've ML'ed D1? in that we're going to hit a situation where it's 8:3 -> 6:1 or at worst 4:1.
So yeah, a little time spend assessing who's more likely inside LUV/Chicakdee or if they're both just scum and if they're not then who's with them should win this game, anyway I need to stop using someone elses laptop so I'll be back to this game in ~24 hours.-
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Full Loyal Neighbourizer and a Neopolitian Cop (Even if Macho) are hard to balance together in the same setup, wouldn't claim it'simpossibleto be the case but would say it's not a common combination. I think going into what roles it fits with possibly here is more harmful than helpful at the moment, particularly given we're not lynching inside LUV/Chiackdee today so might just leave the setup speculation at that and just focus on in-game reads there. Suffice it to say that I think seeing what pans out tonight/claimed tomorrow will make it a lot easier to assess the setup though.
Don't like FF's reaction towards GI at all inside Post 1308, the way he's talking to GreyICE in the first line comes across as he's talking to town but then shifts it in the second line to scum voting him in his next post. His Post 1336 is similarly awfully for the same reason. Lack of him really weighing in on the LUV/Chickadee situation or stating reads elsewhere isn't good too.
Going to do a deep re-read and see if I can narrow down the worlds when I get home, this'll probably be all the work posting I can squeeze in today.
@LUV- Actually take your time and respond to the below, determining your alignment is going to make solving this game significantly easier.
In post 1295, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Taking that into account, the last scum isunlikely to be arona or massive.ELA just like tchill is bleeding town right now and I'll be very surprise if he or she is scum. This again leaves for me Bomber's slot, Dany, and LMK's slot.
Elaborate in as much detail as you can the bolded reads. What makes you think Arona/Massive are unlikely here? Why specifically do you think Mulch would be less likely to let partners replace out and how would Mulch prevent them from replacing out if scum don't have daytalk here (Your assumption they do feels..wrong?), to add to that if Mulch is mafia then only one partner replaced out (MMM) so explain these reads to me like I'm five because I'm looking at these and thinking "this doesn't look like real scumhunting". I completely agree with the Mulch read conclusion, just not at all how you're getting there.In post 1297, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I don't thinkMulch let's his partners replace out to be honest so he can be then too.
Would also like you to comment on how you can genuinely still be attempting to maintain me inside your scum pool after the spoilered comments below. Notable being the time-stamp difference between GI's claim and my response/claim being ~6 minutes as well as the fact I pretty much softed/revealed my role in my original comment. Like anyone with a semblance of ideas about setups would understand how Acetic fits in the setup with a full Loyal Neighbourizer, and even moreso if there's a Neapolitan in the setup which you're claiming there is.
Spoiler:
Would also take an explanation on this, you know she's not a PR and a goon...how? That's not what your role tells you.In post 1335, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:She isn't a PR which means she's a goon.-
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Not my point; my point is that him specifying that you're a goon rather than potentially mafia PR is what doesn't add up. But I'd rather him focusing on the other two sections directed at him then that because that's a much smaller concern.
And it's past the point where you can just go "Not commenting further", he's hard-claiming that he's got a guilty on you. If you're town you should know by now he's mafia for a fact and you need to start actually showing that to us, that or just claim mafia and lay down and die. Happy with either option.-
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GreyICE claiming Loyal Neighbourizer; Targeted FF, No QT set up (Either roleblocked or FF is mafia,verylikely the latter).
LUV claiming Macho Neapolitan saying that Chickadee is not a VT. Chickadee claims VT (Either one is mafia orpossiblyboth are).
I'm Ascetic; can only be targeted by killing actions.
Should have two scum minimum inside FF/LUV/Chickadee here, should be guaranteed to be at either 6;1 or 4;1 at worst after this.-
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Your logic behind "Scum wouldn't double buss and day would have ended sooner if they did" holds very little weight? I've seen wagons that are all town, wagons that are all scum, being as arbitrary to make that statement shows very little actual real assessment of the situation. There's also the fact that if both scum were on him it'd actually make more sense for the day to drag rather than less given they'd have lost the ability to move to increase the wagon size so looking at your analysis there and struggling to see how it's a genuine though process. I'd also argue that less than 20%, maybe even less than 10% of Mini Normals have day chat so really not seeing how you've gone to that conclusion there either.
The "Don't care about the claim, does nothing for me" stance is just mind-boggling difficult to comprehend.
The "If she was a scum PR she'd have fake claimed" thing similarly is something I'm having trouble eating, don't think mafia PR's are really any more or less likely to fake claim a PR than a goon unless they're able to actually claim their actual role and claim it's a town one, if it's a roleblocker/rolecop or anything of the sort they're not able to do that either. But again, this point is super minor.
So yeah, still left looking at your posts and trying to work out "bad or scum".-
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I'd appreciate no one hammer until I at least get a chance to read this properly, will be home for the first time in a while in a few hours and can devote the evening to this game. Inclined to really buy GI's reasoning behind LUV's role not existing here and thinking his play makes zero sense as town.
@FF - If you're town you need to drop this "frustrated, what can I do?" and "GreyICE is mafia because he's not thought this through" shitck because his entrance into the day was him effectively attempting to rule out the possibility of him being targeted by a town role that lead to a false-positive. There's the possibility that a scum-role led to it sure, but it's never enough reasoning not to lynch a guilty here. And actually go all-out sharing your reads and thoughts on the assumption that he's town, because well he's town here 100% of the time.-
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It's a pretty irrelevant point though, if you're town actually look at it from others perspectives; either two things are the case 1) His action failed because you're mafia, 2) His action failed because he was roleblocked by mafia when targeting you. In 2) it's still possible that his action failed both because he targeted mafia and was roleblocked. When you put it all together his play and you being lynched is something that you should be understanding and instead elaborating on your reads and thoughts to give us the best chance post-flip. That's not what you're doing and instead what you're doing feels more like scum frustrated they were caught in this manner.In post 1445, Formerfish wrote:Yeah, exfuckingactly my fucking point-
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I refuse to believe you think his play here is as mafia to go and do a 1-1 trade to get you mslynched when he was town read by majority of the room prior to it. Also think his role explains the existence of mine inside the setup completely and don't think he'd have known this prior to his claiming at all not to mention his play is pretty transparently town throughout the whole game. So if you're town you need to actually start acknowledging he's town here and start providing actual reads and content rather than butthurt frustration posts which is what you've been doing so far. Like if you're town here I understand that this situation isn't fun or ideal, but you need to be doing much more with it.
Anyway;
Vote: LUV
Dude is just openly wolfing at this point.-
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