Normal 1934: Civilization Mafia Mafia (Endgame)

[Ginngie]

Oh when I said PR, I meant as in a 'Power Ranger'

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm an IC dumbass

Don't see any mod proof.
To eddie: for me, it's not meta that's making the townread, it's how genuine his pushes have felt to me.

[Ginngie]

Day 3 \o/

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't really care if it's supposed to trigger in the future, I still can't tell if it's true so I'm going with "irrelevant".

[nancy]

I'm not really fit for mafia right now. Can someone ask me stuff or talk to me or something so I can try to get a foothold back in the game? I just feel lost and I need a hydra partner.

[Korts]

Okay, I'm finally sitting down to recalibrate. I'm gonna have to do this in portions though, because I have a bunch of other shit to deal with too.

VOTE: unvote

Reread notes - page 1-3 - The Percy wagon builds up

Spoiler:

• Robb's post 14, after Percy repeated her silly first vote reason in an intentionally silly way, is way too serious and immediate a response (coming within 5 minutes of Percy's post). Then Percy's appeal to RVS is dismissed with some boggling logic in 16.
  This is the molehill at the bottom of the mountain that was the Percy vs. Robb fight, and even though I agree with Dark Horse's 18 that Percy's dismissal of Robb sounded forced, I think Robb's reply is even more so - "you didn't RVS" is already a pretty unjustified argument, because RVS is a game state that dictates arbitrary voting, and not any individual action, which means that any vote in RVS is, by definition, participation in RVS; and the follow-up argument of "when you don't RVS you need to make sense" is just downright empty rhetoric.
  This could just be Robb trying to move the game forward, but it's a very shaky foundation to have started building on.
   
  
• Based on just this initial exchange, Kaboose and Dark Horse immediately jump on Percy's wagon, which I find weird. When I was first reading through this exchange, I automatically parsed it as town v. town, but if I had to choose a less defensible side, it would be Robb's. (I say less defensible instead of scummy, because again, this is early game activity.)
   
  
• Meanwhile, Tchill's post 20 does not take a side in the Percy/Robb spat, but does riff on Percy's silly "we must have blood" reason to start an unrelated wagon on monkey. Nancy immediately takes a mediating role between Robb and Percy, asking both to elaborate on their positions. monkey puts additional pressure on Percy, and asks Robb seemingly pointed questions (though when I ask him about it, he seems to echo Robb's reasoning instead of questioning it). Then he gets gratingly cocky in response to Ginggie's townAF read on him - "how much do you trust that read" still rubs me wrong, even if Ginggie's post warranted questions itself.
   
  
• massive and Tchill jump on Percy, both of them just openly riding the wagon.
   
  
• Percy's defense against Robb in 42 is sound. In response, Robb doubles down on his bullshit logic in 45, and gets immediate heat from massive and Tchill, who are voting together in immediate succession again.
   
  
• monkey makes cases on Percy and Tchill, changes vote to Tchill, then a couple posts later back to Percy. His case against Percy is pretty weak though, as it's built on the "it was a real reason, not a joke reason" argument, when, come on - how the fuck do you read "we must have blood" as a real reason?

This is pretty much the peak of the Percy wagon, then Tchill starts taking off on the next page. At this point of the reread, Robb is coming off as deliberately obtuse in pursuit of Percy's wagon, while monkey is enabling the bullshit. Tchill looks like he's sheeping massive. Out of all this, monkey's behavior is still the one making me most uncomfortable. I'm gonna keep reading tomorrow, but right now, I feel like I really shouldn't have let go of the monkey scum read so easily. Robb is the second scummiest in these first three pages, especially in connection with monkey.

Tomorrow, I will be examining the Tchill wagon's development.

Now it's time to address this. I don't like it. He seems to be painting the people voting PS as scum no matter who they are.

Just Robb and monkey, really. Both their pushes on Percy were terribly contrived.

[Robbnva]

Mine definitely wasn't and since that slot is scum you'll hang next if people ever get a clue and lynch Eddie. Eddie is scum.

[Korts]

Page 4-14: Tchill wagon develops, Robb continues to tunnel Percy

• Monkey's switch to Tchill in 77 seems off when the entirety of his post was otherwise dedicated to arguing the points I made against him. He invites me to join the Tchill wagon instead of pursuing his case. It seems like deflection tactic.
   
  
• Robb's 108 makes a reasonable point about massive and Tchill's vote hopping, but the characterization of the Percy deal is all kinds of wrong. Robb says he didn't argue with her (???) and that he wasn't defensive, both of which sound incredibly incorrect from the outside perspective at least.
   
  
• Robb's continued insistence that the it-wasn't-RVS argument holds any water is frankly baffling. He brings up the game where he caught RC in the early game like it justifies his position here, but it really doesn't translate, not when the actual argument he's building on is so forced. The OMGUS accusation in 191 completely ignores his own scummy behavior, and the fact that Percy wasn't alone in pushing back for it.
   
  
• Tchill's response to pressure is so goddamn erratic. And ugh, the wifom thing.

Up to page 14. To be continued.

PEDIT: haha you're such a goof Robb.

[Korts]

Okay, here's the bullshit in 45, Robb.

I didn't argue anything actually. I asked you a simple question.

You chose to use something game related to vote me, asking you to explain your vote is perfectly acceptable response.

An explanation was provided with the initial vote. The explanation was repeated at your request.

you claim it was rvs, but according to my definition of rvs, it wasn't.

This is the bullshit part. You stick to the literal definition of RVS as strictly random, unjustified voting. Your entire case is built on the fact that Percy dared include a reason, which makes it not RVS, when you are well aware (you must be, you claim 10+ years of experience with this game) that the common use of RVS refers to arbitrary voting rather than essential randomness.

That you stick to "your" definition of RVS in the face of an entire town arguing against it shows that you don't have a cooperative scumhunting mindset, and are perfectly fine pushing a point nobody agrees with. This is how scum hide their votes from impactful wagons.

Also I don't really buy the whole "see if his reaction would be useful" because you have to have a familiarity with me to know how I would react as town and scum, and you don't.

You are not such a special snowflake that your reactions wouldn't tell a stranger anything about you. This is just an attempt to discredit Percy's defense.

There hasn't been enough from you to determine if you are scum or town yet, so I won't put you at L-1 but you are definitely on my radar. Let's see if your play improves.

And like massive said at the time, this last sentence is incredibly condescending, as if your own play has been so impeccable.

[Robbnva]

Idk why you wasted your time on that. My logic wasn't bullshit and nothing you say changes that. So you are either scum or a bad player deciding to waste time posting that garbage.

I'll go with scum cause you actually seem to be intelligent on the surface (plus I don't want to get banned for insulting people)

[Korts]

Your entire RVS spiel is bullshit, no matter how you defend it.

[Robbnva]

No it isn't. Good I caught 2 scum. I'm awesome

[Korts]

You're really not as clever as you think you are.

VOTE: Robbnva

[Robbnva]

I don't think I'm clever. I just think I've caught 2 scum. Your vote just confirms it for me.

If I'm lynched please vote both Eddie and korts. If you don't town loses guaranteed.

[Korts]

Fuck off with your LAMIST posing.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey Robb how about you switch to the wagon with more support

[massive]

Man I wanna vote Robb but this

And like massive said at the time, this last sentence is incredibly condescending, as if your own play has been so impeccable.

is just like POCKET WARNING DANGER WILL ROBINSON POCKET WARNING POCKET WARNING

[Dark Horse]

Yeah kort's push is mad weak. "Game related votes aren't rvs" is definitley a common school of rvs thought which is something that the push seems to conveniently ignore.

Massive's most recent post is also terrible Korts/monkey/massive eskeddit

[Gamma Emerald]

Howdy folks!

I think I still haven't done a good job explaining my thought process for the stuff that got me wagonned but it's not really that important so I'm just going to let it go.

I buy that Tchill's vote switch could have been a slip. Scum motivation: just trying to lynch somebody and forgetting your previous positions (less than two hours later!) because you don't really mean them. Town motivation: changing your mind as you see things without worrying about seeming consistent because you only care about finding the answer. Being willing to call your own actions scummy if you think you're part of a scummy wagon, because even though you know you're town you recognize you did something scummy and are willing to point that out to make progress. Conclusion: kind of shockingly sloppy as scum but slips happen. But if he can explain their switch to my satisfaction, I'd call it actively towny.

Bleh I have too many townreads. I actually kind of scumread Korts on tone/structure which is unfortunate because he's also the most helpful person. But like he's

aggressively

helpful? Basically he reminds me of the "scumhunting" I did as scum in my last game. Jumping in early and responding to everything, trying to have lots of things to say when there doesn't exist much to say yet. I could vanity wagon him for it but I don't have that kind of confidence. I think I'll VOTE: Tchill because I really do want to force them to explain themself.

What exactly is going on here? In your post 72, which was your last post in the game prior to this one, you were townreading Korts for the exact same reason. Now you scumread him based on a projection if your own habits...and in the same post criticize TChill for flipping his vote. Contradictions, thy name is Persephone. Can you explain what was going on there to make

you

change your mind?

Also your scumread of Korts and TChill's scumread of Korts are reverberating in my head. You two aren't scumreading him for the exact same reason, but both of them look like attempts to make good behavior look bad, and that's curious to me, mostly because I don't think it's likely you and TChill are both scum.

Basically, I did an "omg who the hell even is scum" reread after a day away and just sort of imagined myself as scum writing the posts that different people wrote and it fit the best. I didn't even

look

at my own previous posts; I just read the stuff I missed and the isos of all the active people. I feel kind of silly now, and even less sure of myself obviously. I just if I spend all my time trying to be consistent and not look bad that will totally bias my thinking and I won't be able to actually come up with anything real.

I just have no squidding idea who is scum in this game. I have nothing. And I'm going to stop before I get into some sort of self-pitying rant about how I'm not good enough for newbie games. But like the reason I sound fake to everybody is that I'm trying to join a new community and fit in at the same time as I'm trying to solve a mystery and trying to decide which of my hypothetical new friends is trying to trick me. I just can't make my brain do those both at once very well.

Honestly playing scum was so much easier because all I had to do was get people to trust me. But now I'm going to be all sorts of things "town would never do" because I'm trying my best and don't know better. But I'm going to get lynched if I keep trying to pretend there's some deeper master plan to my inept flailings; it feels better to be read as scum than seen as incompetent but my wincon demands that I suck it up and admit to my actual stupid thought processes when people ask.

Robbnva I want you to put aside your tunnel for a second and tell me what you think of this post alone.

[Robbnva]

Hey Robb how about you switch to the wagon with more support

I'm only going to be voting Eddie or korts today and since I haven't seen a vc in a while I'll stick with Eddie.

[Eddie Cane]

robb is one of the most annoying people I've played with

[Gamma Emerald]

Woohoo, I had prioirty #1!!

And wow, did scum really want treestump....

PeregrineV - Pyramids

Drixx

- Pyramids

Caesar Wills It

- Pyramids

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=70406

Scum REALLY wanted that treestump. Too much hype over the game with Pine as the treestump I guess.

Civilization Mafia Mafia:

Votecount 2.36:

humaneatingmonkey (4): Dark Horse, Sunlit Diamond, Grendel, Eddie Cane
Tchill13 (2): massive, Assemblerotws
Eddie Cane (1): Robbnva
Assemblerotws (1): Ginngie
Korts (1): Tchill13
Robbnva (0):
Grendel (0):
massive (0):
Sunlit Diamond (0):
Ginngie (0):
nancy (0):
Dark Horse (0):

Not Voting: nancy, humaneatingmonkey, Korts

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

The day has begun and will end in (expired on 2017-08-29 23:00:00).

Seeking replacement for Sunlit Diamond.

Spoiler: Remaining Posts:

Korts: 62
Ginngie: 63
humaneatingmonkey: 64
Eddie Cane: 65
Sunlit Diamond: 65
Robbnva: 62
Grendel: 62
massive: 63
Dark Horse: 55
Assemblerotws: 68
nancy: 70
Tchill13: 47

@Robb most recent one. Not including your vote, Korts has two while Eddie has none.

[Robbnva]

Man I wanna vote Robb but this

And like massive said at the time, this last sentence is incredibly condescending, as if your own play has been so impeccable.

is just like POCKET WARNING DANGER WILL ROBINSON POCKET WARNING POCKET WARNING

Good call. Cause it was stupid when you used it. Definitely nobody should sheep that logic.

Condescending is my personality

[Robbnva]

I'll read that post later. My internet at this hotel is garbage.

[Robbnva]

@gamma that post is just AtE garbage. Why can't scum make that post? Why does it make that slot town?

Let's ignore how obviously scummy PS was. What has Eddie done that's town?

@eddie. If you are town you are more annoying. You Troll the fucking game and get mad cause somebody scum reads you for it.