Newbie 1829: The Mandela Effect - GAME OVER

[sheepsaysmeep]

pagetop?

[Jodaxq]

UNVOTE:
It's a little too early for L-1. Paradise is at the top of my list but I want to give him a chance to come and defend himself.

[MathBlade]

Catching up now.

I am thrilled with the amount of activity.

I saw an abbreviation CFK. That abbreviation I haven't seen on MS actually so would the person who used it please explain it?

[MathBlade]

Achamian could I have your reads thanks

So far I'm reading more probably town motivation in everyone save three players (Bory, Chip Butty, and Paradise). I have no idea how to rank them as "more town" than any others, so I'll just leave it at that.

I have not been able to even consider Bory much because he hasn't really posted much to read anyway. I can see the most scum motivation in Paradise, my reasons for which are outlined above. I think it's possible scum motivation in Chip Butty's posts, but not in a way I can really articulate, yet. I would like to see more from him.

I like this post. This gives me a "this is where I'm at and screw your argument if you think I'm scum" attitude. This post feels really genuine.

[sheepsaysmeep]

Catching up now.

I am thrilled with the amount of activity.

I saw an abbreviation CFK. That abbreviation I haven't seen on MS actually so would the person who used it please explain it?

Cute Fluffy Kitten defense
forgot what it means

[MathBlade]

RVS literally has no value but OK, whatever floats your boat

Whoa, dude! I'm in agreement with that, as I said in my last post.

Both wrong. RVS gives us something to do, some people even have fun with it, it normally transitions well into actual game play. somethings this is done with RQS or whatever. Random question stage. I think that one is boring.
Now there is question on rather or not you can get alignment things out of RVS. I don't have an answer there.

Okay. I always thought it was just like a get to know you stage and had no real bearing on the game.

(IC moment)

RVS is "Random Voting Stage" It can last a while or be done on the first page. Games I'm in tend to end RVS pretty quickly because I find something to comment on because I'm not really wired to handle "socially random" all that well so I try to start discussion early to read people.

Some people such as myself tend to find a read or two early when people are trying to "shoot the breeze". (See Osuka early game other newbie) and sometimes I have a hard time developing reads in RVS. There are merits to both.

It's a matter of what YOU find useful as you go along. Some people have their way. These games are meant for you to learn how to play. Not a "oh what does this experienced person do" I'll just parrot. It's much more important that you get practice (which is a lot of reason I'm being more restrained as an IC than in typical play).

[MathBlade]

Math: I'm not sure why anyone would really be town reading him here, most of it's been IC post with has nothing to do with alignment, but perhaps some of it's because of him overreaching with my RVS. Like, I get what he's saying, but one, influencing others play isn't always a bad thing, and two, I don't see how you assume I'm trying to prevent sheeping, and three, sheeping rarely is a helpful town thing. You either are blindly following someone else, or you are doing something while keeping your motives completely hidden which isn't great for town.

I agree about Math. At this point I believe most of his posts are just from an IC who's trying their best to get people to better explain their thoughts. They have certainly been scumhunting some, but I feel like a mafia who's also trying to be an encouraging IC would would have to insert some evidence of scumhunting. I have a null read on him currently although I'm suspicious at his early FoSes.

I don't really agree with these points re: MathBlade. They're sharing their own thoughts about reads so far. It's also a fact that regardless of the validity of the FoS, MathBlade singlehandedly sparked discussion with it and pulled us out of RVS, which seems highly pro-town motivation to me. Possible scum motivation could the way it's set him in a position to lead the conversation, but I think they seem skilled enough that they could have tried to do that anyway even if they let us waste more time in RVS. I think town is more likely.

--------------------

I don't think his reason is half assed at all. Considering I've stated that's one of the reasons I'm voting you I'm not even sure why you would ask me if I would FoS you for the reason he stated. Well the answer is no, but I'd vote you over it. So you say you have a really good reason for FoSing MathBlade, but you still think based purely on chance that your vote on Bory is more likely to be scum?

Also all of post 85 is all explainining. Add that to the fact that it looks like you tell me that I have no reason to even FoS you ... So if that's the case me jumping on a Paradise wagon should probably be scummier then Chip Butty who at least gave a reason ... And you still vote him over me?

Bold is my emphasis, and I think a really great point. And one Paradise seems to have elected to ignore. Do you have a response to it, Paradise?

Paradise's really bold assertion in 59, and the defense of it in 85, bothers me a lot. It seems like scum motivation. He's absolutely certain enough to never vote for somebody... unless later he's not. It's like he's leaving wiggle room to back out later, if he needs to, but still absolutely sure about an alignment that I don't understand how he could be. It reads a lot like Paradise already knows our alignments. I'm not sure what town motivation for these posts could be.

Especially considering 74 right inbetween:

I actually mean mathBlade is scummiest in the actives although like I said everyone who talked has some form of town points, just some more than others. I am voting Bory because he is inactive thus having 0 town points, less than MathBlade. I fos MathBlade solely on the fact that as soon as he came, he already had two foses right up... There was literally only one page (troll votes too) and somehow he came up with two foses magically. I know for a fact I am town, and based on my reads, no one was scummy enough to be called out upon that early in the game unless it was for reactions, but it does’nt seem like it. To summarize it, I fos him because at that point, I found it weird he already had foses that quickly considering we had nothing much to go on.

mathblade is wrong for being too certain too early, and because it goes against what Paradise already knows (even if knowing that hard is too certain, too early IMHO).

<<
posting.php?mode=quote&f=11&p=9523798 << This was post 10 and I was certain enough to drop a vote AND I was right. Sometimes you just know.

Here I had FoS's. They aren't nearly as strong. As much as I townread you, you shouldn't tell someone when or when not they can "know" things". Paradise's posts read town and scum at the same time. However, I'm much more intrigued that Paradise FoS'd me for it. I'm leaning more Chip and J but this thought process from Paradise I'm trying to nail down and I just can't. Did you legitimately think no discussion would start?
>>

90 Seems even worse. I'm really bothered that his interest is more in shifting his playstyle away from criticism rather than defending what made it be criticized in the first place. Is there no defense?

I have intent to vote Paradise but not to hammer immediately if I've got the vote count wrong. I am unsure if he is at L-1 or not.

@Mod vote count please

?

[MathBlade]

Alright, I’ll change my style of play. I will not explain things anymore. It’s cool

Uhmmm that's not cool. You should always be explaining your self as either alignment. That's just craptastic.

[MathBlade]

Is there any reason somebody would legitimately want to? I would have assumed if you've got them you should be making most of your night actions.

I don't think there any reasons at all, I can think out only 1 example:
When there is just 1 maf left and there is a jailor in game and there are no deaths in game, the jailed person becames very suspectios. So mafia can theoretically want to not kill, forcing jailor to reveal his name and to say that "person A was jailed with no maf kills" making, hopefully, person A lynched and opening a possibility of attacking revealed jailor next night.

In this case that's actually improper.

Assume day one lynch mafia. Night one no kill. Jailer jails person A. 8 alive
Assume day two lynch town. Night two no kill. Jailer jails person B. 7 alive
Assume day three lynch town. Night three no kill. Jailer jails person A or B. 6 alive
Assume day four lynch town. Night four no kill. Jailer jails A or B. 5 alive.

With how many no kills there are at this point Jailer can just claim here and say it's between A and B. Scum can't CC or they lose.
This means in all likelihood the scum is between A and B.

[MathBlade]

FYI I forgot to do an IC thing earlier sorry.

Site meta says (which I disagree with personally however as an IC I need to represent site meta) that if you are a 1 shot BP you claim because then scum don't want to shoot you because it is a waste. I however disagree with this idea but generally I'm in the minority here.

There should be no other comments made as to whether or not this is indeed possible or not. Just let it sit and ruminate.

[Chip Butty]

Shouldn't be, focusing on that pretty much scraps your argument. Now, I've seen people catch scum in RVS before ... I really don't feel that is something you should scum read, and that's coming from someone who is scum reading that slot.

'Kay. Good to know. I was just looking at it; you're probably right, there's not enough there to read.

I'm unsure what CKE

(You mean CFK, right?)

stands for ....

Cute Fuzzy Kitten Defense. Not the actual defense itself, but the gist of it: "You should feel bad, because I am your only chance at winning because I am so powerful."

Catching up now.

I am thrilled with the amount of activity.

I saw an abbreviation CFK. That abbreviation I haven't seen on MS actually so would the person who used it please explain it?

CFK was explained earlier. MB might have missed this because skimming. Skimming rather than reading carefully through the thread is something scum do more than town, because they don't need to detect scum.

[Chip Butty]

MB, can you please say something in your IC capacity re the merits or otherwise of declaring intent to extract a claim?

[Jodaxq]

After looking through his ISO I've got a very bad feeling about sheepsaysmeep. He's checked a lot of the scum boxes, especially since we seem to be reading Paradise as scum. Sheepsaysmeep hasn't contributed many of his own reads, but he has piggybacked onto the reads of others (unless they have involved Paradise as scum), he has downplayed suspicion on Paradise, and he jumped at the only other player who has raised any suspicion. He has done this all while putting in a bunch of a fluff posts that have made him seem active.

Sheepsaysmeep hasn't yet contributed anything unique to this game. In post 33, post 91, post 119, and post 122 he asks people directly for their reads without providing anything on his own. For comparison, he has just as many posts where he talks about any of his own reads, and nearly all of them are reactionary. Post 55 is the only post, other than jumping on my bandwagon (more on this later in this post), where he talks about seeing anyone as scummy. The one line of reasoning doesn't strike me as a strong read, but yet this is the one "you may be scum" post he's made, and it was made after our most experienced player had already quoted Chip and asked about his vote for me. In post 113 he mainly piggybacks off of James' easy-to-digest list. He also doesn't talk at all about who he thinks as scummy, only whom he reads (or knows) are town. I find the line "kind of looks like sheeping off of other people's reads" very funny considering the argument I'm making. His one unique read in this post is, of course, a "gut town read" on Paradise. Post 37 is the one post where he posts his proactive reads. One of them is defending Paradise and the other one seems to me like you're trying to buddy up to most experienced player and get him off your trail. Another post that concerns me on the Paradise issue is post 67, where you downplay Paradise's action "as a small thought for future reference." Also note that in post 87 and in post 113 he ends the post with something along the lines of "I'll post more later" and then doesn't follow through.

There are a couple things that bother me about his vote for me. In post 37, which again is the only post where he makes any proactive reads, he claims to have not seen anything significant from anyone outside of MathBlade and his buddy Paradise. However, in literally the next post, post 38, he piggybacks onto MathBlade's read and declares that my behavior has been scummy enough to warrant a vote. This is just an odd inconsistency that leads me to believe, as he said in post 31, "looks like a blatant bandwagon to me." I think he saw that others saw my initial aphix vote as suspicious and got a little excited that a townie was the first one to fall under scrutiny, especially since one of the players suspecting me was the experienced player that I think he wants to buddy up to.
Yes, I get that I did the same thing, but I explained why and have switched my vote to a real read. Sheep, on the other hand, has kept his vote for me long after many others have moved on. I think this is because there hasn't been a non-Paradise bandwagon to jump onto.

So many of his posts are just general statements that contribute nothing. Post 41, post 73, post 76, post 87, and post 125 all contribute nothing. I don't necessarily think these things are particularly scummy themselves, but I think he is making them to try and seem like he's active and participating when in reality, as I've pointed out above, he's really not.

I also find it interesting that the one time someone scumread him, he got a little defensive. This happened in post 71. Well here you go, sheepsaysmeep, I scumread you and backed it up with a little evidence. What do you have to say?

[sheepsaysmeep]

Shouldn't be, focusing on that pretty much scraps your argument. Now, I've seen people catch scum in RVS before ... I really don't feel that is something you should scum read, and that's coming from someone who is scum reading that slot.

'Kay. Good to know. I was just looking at it; you're probably right, there's not enough there to read.

I'm unsure what CKE

(You mean CFK, right?)

stands for ....

Cute Fuzzy Kitten Defense. Not the actual defense itself, but the gist of it: "You should feel bad, because I am your only chance at winning because I am so powerful."

Catching up now.

I am thrilled with the amount of activity.

I saw an abbreviation CFK. That abbreviation I haven't seen on MS actually so would the person who used it please explain it?

CFK was explained earlier. MB might have missed this because skimming. Skimming rather than reading carefully through the thread is something scum do more than town, because they don't need to detect scum.

disagree
town and scum miss things; scum and town have to try not to miss things
MathBlade and aphix are my two strongest townreads so far
Paradise is tone scummy and his defenses are scummy as it seems he is trying too hard for us to change to townread him especially in this post

Alright, I’ll change my style of play. I will not explain things anymore. It’s cool

, but he also seems like a lost newbie town
oh cool i'll respond to jodaxq in a sec

[sheepsaysmeep]

After looking through his ISO I've got a very bad feeling about sheepsaysmeep. He's checked a lot of the scum boxes, especially since we seem to be reading Paradise as scum. Sheepsaysmeep hasn't contributed many of his own reads, but he has piggybacked onto the reads of others (unless they have involved Paradise as scum), he has downplayed suspicion on Paradise, and he jumped at the only other player who has raised any suspicion. He has done this all while putting in a bunch of a fluff posts that have made him seem active.

Sheepsaysmeep hasn't yet contributed anything unique to this game. In post 33, post 91, post 119, and post 122 he asks people directly for their reads without providing anything on his own. For comparison, he has just as many posts where he talks about any of his own reads, and nearly all of them are reactionary. Post 55 is the only post, other than jumping on my bandwagon (more on this later in this post), where he talks about seeing anyone as scummy. The one line of reasoning doesn't strike me as a strong read, but yet this is the one "you may be scum" post he's made, and it was made after our most experienced player had already quoted Chip and asked about his vote for me. In post 113 he mainly piggybacks off of James' easy-to-digest list. He also doesn't talk at all about who he thinks as scummy, only whom he reads (or knows) are town. I find the line "kind of looks like sheeping off of other people's reads" very funny considering the argument I'm making. His one unique read in this post is, of course, a "gut town read" on Paradise. Post 37 is the one post where he posts his proactive reads. One of them is defending Paradise and the other one seems to me like you're trying to buddy up to most experienced player and get him off your trail. Another post that concerns me on the Paradise issue is post 67, where you downplay Paradise's action "as a small thought for future reference." Also note that in post 87 and in post 113 he ends the post with something along the lines of "I'll post more later" and then doesn't follow through.

There are a couple things that bother me about his vote for me. In post 37, which again is the only post where he makes any proactive reads, he claims to have not seen anything significant from anyone outside of MathBlade and his buddy Paradise. However, in literally the next post, post 38, he piggybacks onto MathBlade's read and declares that my behavior has been scummy enough to warrant a vote. This is just an odd inconsistency that leads me to believe, as he said in post 31, "looks like a blatant bandwagon to me." I think he saw that others saw my initial aphix vote as suspicious and got a little excited that a townie was the first one to fall under scrutiny, especially since one of the players suspecting me was the experienced player that I think he wants to buddy up to.
Yes, I get that I did the same thing, but I explained why and have switched my vote to a real read. Sheep, on the other hand, has kept his vote for me long after many others have moved on. I think this is because there hasn't been a non-Paradise bandwagon to jump onto.

So many of his posts are just general statements that contribute nothing. Post 41, post 73, post 76, post 87, and post 125 all contribute nothing. I don't necessarily think these things are particularly scummy themselves, but I think he is making them to try and seem like he's active and participating when in reality, as I've pointed out above, he's really not.

I also find it interesting that the one time someone scumread him, he got a little defensive. This happened in post 71. Well here you go, sheepsaysmeep, I scumread you and backed it up with a little evidence. What do you have to say?

ok so this post is definitely interesting
answer to paragraph 1: I have my own unique reads; MathBlade and aphix are town and nothing else really stands out to me now. I think I'm allowed to agree with other people.
answer to paragraph 2: I stated my own reads, I backed them up, I wanted to know what others thought. You're argument is based upon me ending up with similar conclusions to other people, and I'm not seeing a lot wrong with that. my small thoughts for future reference is just my playstyle; I like to note possible interactions between people.
answer to paragraph 3: I don't particularly scumread you right now, I don't see anyone besides Paradise leaning scummy at the moment. You calling my reaction to your voting aphix as "excited" is strange though; I was simply pointing out that you were saying this without evidence and this was before you explained your playstyle. I don't see how that appears as me being excited to you in any way.
answer to paragraph 4: post 41 is agreeing with a clarification, post 73 is calling out bory for lurking, post 76 and post 125 are not intended to make me look like I'm contributing but rather that I want pagetops ;-;, post 87 is talking about Paradise's playstyle. I don't agree that these are posts that are intended to make me look like I'm helping when I'm not.
answer to paragraph 5: me asking him to provide evidence for a scumread when we'ere out of RVS is really not a reason for you to scumread me
If you have any other clarifications about the intentions or whatev of my posts, feel free to ask them

[MathBlade]

After looking through his ISO I've got a very bad feeling about sheepsaysmeep. He's checked a lot of the scum boxes, especially since we seem to be reading Paradise as scum. Sheepsaysmeep hasn't contributed many of his own reads, but he has piggybacked onto the reads of others (unless they have involved Paradise as scum), he has downplayed suspicion on Paradise, and he jumped at the only other player who has raised any suspicion. He has done this all while putting in a bunch of a fluff posts that have made him seem active.

Sheepsaysmeep hasn't yet contributed anything unique to this game. In post 33, post 91, post 119, and post 122 he asks people directly for their reads without providing anything on his own. For comparison, he has just as many posts where he talks about any of his own reads, and nearly all of them are reactionary. Post 55 is the only post, other than jumping on my bandwagon (more on this later in this post), where he talks about seeing anyone as scummy. The one line of reasoning doesn't strike me as a strong read, but yet this is the one "you may be scum" post he's made, and it was made after our most experienced player had already quoted Chip and asked about his vote for me. In post 113 he mainly piggybacks off of James' easy-to-digest list. He also doesn't talk at all about who he thinks as scummy, only whom he reads (or knows) are town. I find the line "kind of looks like sheeping off of other people's reads" very funny considering the argument I'm making. His one unique read in this post is, of course, a "gut town read" on Paradise. Post 37 is the one post where he posts his proactive reads. One of them is defending Paradise and the other one seems to me like you're trying to buddy up to most experienced player and get him off your trail. Another post that concerns me on the Paradise issue is post 67, where you downplay Paradise's action "as a small thought for future reference." Also note that in post 87 and in post 113 he ends the post with something along the lines of "I'll post more later" and then doesn't follow through.

There are a couple things that bother me about his vote for me. In post 37, which again is the only post where he makes any proactive reads, he claims to have not seen anything significant from anyone outside of MathBlade and his buddy Paradise. However, in literally the next post, post 38, he piggybacks onto MathBlade's read and declares that my behavior has been scummy enough to warrant a vote. This is just an odd inconsistency that leads me to believe, as he said in post 31, "looks like a blatant bandwagon to me." I think he saw that others saw my initial aphix vote as suspicious and got a little excited that a townie was the first one to fall under scrutiny, especially since one of the players suspecting me was the experienced player that I think he wants to buddy up to.
Yes, I get that I did the same thing, but I explained why and have switched my vote to a real read. Sheep, on the other hand, has kept his vote for me long after many others have moved on. I think this is because there hasn't been a non-Paradise bandwagon to jump onto.

So many of his posts are just general statements that contribute nothing. Post 41, post 73, post 76, post 87, and post 125 all contribute nothing. I don't necessarily think these things are particularly scummy themselves, but I think he is making them to try and seem like he's active and participating when in reality, as I've pointed out above, he's really not.

I also find it interesting that the one time someone scumread him, he got a little defensive. This happened in post 71. Well here you go, sheepsaysmeep, I scumread you and backed it up with a little evidence. What do you have to say?

ok so this post is definitely interesting
answer to paragraph 1: I have my own unique reads; MathBlade and aphix are town and nothing else really stands out to me now. I think I'm allowed to agree with other people.
answer to paragraph 2: I stated my own reads, I backed them up, I wanted to know what others thought. You're argument is based upon me ending up with similar conclusions to other people, and I'm not seeing a lot wrong with that. my small thoughts for future reference is just my playstyle; I like to note possible interactions between people.
answer to paragraph 3: I don't particularly scumread you right now, I don't see anyone besides Paradise leaning scummy at the moment. You calling my reaction to your voting aphix as "excited" is strange though; I was simply pointing out that you were saying this without evidence and this was before you explained your playstyle. I don't see how that appears as me being excited to you in any way.
answer to paragraph 4: post 41 is agreeing with a clarification, post 73 is calling out bory for lurking, post 76 and post 125 are not intended to make me look like I'm contributing but rather that I want pagetops ;-;, post 87 is talking about Paradise's playstyle. I don't agree that these are posts that are intended to make me look like I'm helping when I'm not.
answer to paragraph 5: me asking him to provide evidence for a scumread when we'ere out of RVS is really not a reason for you to scumread me
If you have any other clarifications about the intentions or whatev of my posts, feel free to ask them

You are allowed to agree, disagree, kinda sorta agree, kinda sorta disagree, think things are irrelevant, run a video on repeat for inspiration do whatever.

Long as you explain.

Sheep is obvTown I think.

[MathBlade]

After looking through his ISO I've got a very bad feeling about sheepsaysmeep. He's checked a lot of the scum boxes, especially since we seem to be reading Paradise as scum. Sheepsaysmeep hasn't contributed many of his own reads, but he has piggybacked onto the reads of others (unless they have involved Paradise as scum), he has downplayed suspicion on Paradise, and he jumped at the only other player who has raised any suspicion. He has done this all while putting in a bunch of a fluff posts that have made him seem active.

Sheepsaysmeep hasn't yet contributed anything unique to this game. In post 33, post 91, post 119, and post 122 he asks people directly for their reads without providing anything on his own. For comparison, he has just as many posts where he talks about any of his own reads, and nearly all of them are reactionary. Post 55 is the only post, other than jumping on my bandwagon (more on this later in this post), where he talks about seeing anyone as scummy. The one line of reasoning doesn't strike me as a strong read, but yet this is the one "you may be scum" post he's made, and it was made after our most experienced player had already quoted Chip and asked about his vote for me. In post 113 he mainly piggybacks off of James' easy-to-digest list. He also doesn't talk at all about who he thinks as scummy, only whom he reads (or knows) are town. I find the line "kind of looks like sheeping off of other people's reads" very funny considering the argument I'm making. His one unique read in this post is, of course, a "gut town read" on Paradise. Post 37 is the one post where he posts his proactive reads. One of them is defending Paradise and the other one seems to me like you're trying to buddy up to most experienced player and get him off your trail. Another post that concerns me on the Paradise issue is post 67, where you downplay Paradise's action "as a small thought for future reference." Also note that in post 87 and in post 113 he ends the post with something along the lines of "I'll post more later" and then doesn't follow through.

There are a couple things that bother me about his vote for me. In post 37, which again is the only post where he makes any proactive reads, he claims to have not seen anything significant from anyone outside of MathBlade and his buddy Paradise. However, in literally the next post, post 38, he piggybacks onto MathBlade's read and declares that my behavior has been scummy enough to warrant a vote. This is just an odd inconsistency that leads me to believe, as he said in post 31, "looks like a blatant bandwagon to me." I think he saw that others saw my initial aphix vote as suspicious and got a little excited that a townie was the first one to fall under scrutiny, especially since one of the players suspecting me was the experienced player that I think he wants to buddy up to.
Yes, I get that I did the same thing, but I explained why and have switched my vote to a real read. Sheep, on the other hand, has kept his vote for me long after many others have moved on. I think this is because there hasn't been a non-Paradise bandwagon to jump onto.

So many of his posts are just general statements that contribute nothing. Post 41, post 73, post 76, post 87, and post 125 all contribute nothing. I don't necessarily think these things are particularly scummy themselves, but I think he is making them to try and seem like he's active and participating when in reality, as I've pointed out above, he's really not.

I also find it interesting that the one time someone scumread him, he got a little defensive. This happened in post 71. Well here you go, sheepsaysmeep, I scumread you and backed it up with a little evidence. What do you have to say?

While I like the effort put here I disagree with it and I still think you are scum.

Will explain when it isn't midnight.

[sheepsaysmeep]

Spoiler:

Hey! I'm James Brafin, and it's a pleasure to meet you all! Sorry I missed RVS; I was having some posting issues.
I'm kind of a new casual player, but don't let that fool you; I'm heavily invested in the meta, especially Fallacy ad Gambit stuff. I'm working on memorizing them all right now.
Now, to get things underway:

VOTE: Jodaxq
It seems to me like he's walling and isn't making a lot of sense to me. A pretty heavy scumread.

The heavy scumread from Jodaxq's like 3-4 posts is interesting

As a matter of fact, from top to bottom, here's who I feel is most town-aligned:

Achamian
sheepsaysmeep
Chip Butty
MathBlade
Bory
aphix
Jodaxq
Paradise

Also, I have a fallacy incoming:

APPEAL TO EMOTION

An appeal to emotion is a particularly devious sort of fallacious argument, particularly in a game of unknowns such as Mafia. "If you lynch me, you'll lose!" is an easy example, but there are many others, played by both/all Factions in most games at some point. The nature of the game lends itself to appeals to fear or hope or trust.

Unvote me sheep, you can't vote out the most handsome person out yet... Who will you guys look up to?

This, if I am correct, is a mild Appeal to Emotion being passed off as a joke post in RVS.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Paradise

I'm pretty sure there's a few more in here somewhere, but I'm going to have to sift them later to get answers.

The reads list is interesting and still has no explanation. I'm not seeing what puts bory and his hello post over aphix; Neither do I get how Achamian ends up on top when all he's done is ask for clarifications.

But anyways, if I had to guess, I'd put our scumteam on Jodaxq and Paradise. They've both done a good job of avoiding association with one another, but at the same time, most of their posts seem to be flawed to me... I need to go in and do a full-blown Fallacy Sift on them before I go any further however.

Also, if anyone is curious to my reasoning, I have a theory that the more Fallacy and Anti-Town Gambits (ATG) a player uses, the more likely they are scum.

I think that depends on the player's playstyle

Alright. I'm going to do a full sift this evening, but for now I haven't enough to ask. But Paradise is REALLY smelling to me. A fallacy that early seems really shady to me.

An explanation would help

I know. But that early and that blatant? Really suspicious to me.

And you are right, 90 IS AtE! Very much so. And it seems to have a CFK feel to it as well.

This I agree with; Paradise's post 90 was yelling scum

Shouldn't be, focusing on that pretty much scraps your argument. Now, I've seen people catch scum in RVS before ... I really don't feel that is something you should scum read, and that's coming from someone who is scum reading that slot.

'Kay. Good to know. I was just looking at it; you're probably right, there's not enough there to read.

I'm unsure what CKE

(You mean CFK, right?)

stands for ....

Cute Fuzzy Kitten Defense. Not the actual defense itself, but the gist of it: "You should feel bad, because I am your only chance at winning because I am so powerful."

This is an awkward backing away from the failed attack, although I find it towny that he doesn't try to continue with it

RVS literally has no value but OK, whatever floats your boat

Whoa, dude! I'm in agreement with that, as I said in my last post.

RVS start discussion

Guys, I think we may have scum.

I think we can't be that sure yet

And in addition to that, Paradise is L-1

This notice helps

Paradise is L-2 now.

This commentary isn't as necessary

RVS literally has no value but OK, whatever floats your boat

Whoa, dude! I'm in agreement with that, as I said in my last post.

Both wrong. RVS gives us something to do, some people even have fun with it, it normally transitions well into actual game play. somethings this is done with RQS or whatever. Random question stage. I think that one is boring.
Now there is question on rather or not you can get alignment things out of RVS. I don't have an answer there.

Okay. I always thought it was just like a get to know you stage and had no real bearing on the game.

That's nice

My thoughts after looking at a James ISO; there's some fake contrib but not a lot of it and he definitely portrays a feeling of confidence. i would think that that's scummy because scum has more info, but I feel the need to think about it a bit more later. Probably my last post for today

[MathBlade]

MB, can you please say something in your IC capacity re the merits or otherwise of declaring intent to extract a claim?

In regards to declaring intent:

If a person is going to be at l-1 (bigger games l-2 sometimes) you announce that you are putting them at l-1 (this means lynch minus one) if someone else wishes to vote them they declare intent.

In some games you don't want to claim but in this one it is advantageous to claim if you are at L-1. Mainly if you are Town then scum have to CC or let the PR run wild or NK them which leaves others free or threats free. (CC is counter claim If player A claims vig then player B goes I am the vig then that is a CC)

Similarly if the claim is invalid and you know it don't CC immediately wait and see what shakes and if they will be lynched without it or in the rare case of a gambit. Almost always the proper play is to CC.

Now in regards to extracting a claim is a strategy decision here.

If Town you should almost always have intent truly to hammer.
If scum (again iC) in a theme or non open setup yes. Here be careful with it. You run the risk of hedging in your kills but at the same time it might by you towncred. (End required IC message)

[MathBlade]

Shouldn't be, focusing on that pretty much scraps your argument. Now, I've seen people catch scum in RVS before ... I really don't feel that is something you should scum read, and that's coming from someone who is scum reading that slot.

'Kay. Good to know. I was just looking at it; you're probably right, there's not enough there to read.

I'm unsure what CKE

(You mean CFK, right?)

stands for ....

Cute Fuzzy Kitten Defense. Not the actual defense itself, but the gist of it: "You should feel bad, because I am your only chance at winning because I am so powerful."

Catching up now.

I am thrilled with the amount of activity.

I saw an abbreviation CFK. That abbreviation I haven't seen on MS actually so would the person who used it please explain it?

CFK was explained earlier. MB might have missed this because skimming. Skimming rather than reading carefully through the thread is something scum do more than town, because they don't need to detect scum.

I catch up backwards when an IC because I check for urgent stuff first.

When I saw it was answered I just left it alone.

[Paradise]

I would have wrote some stuff but honestly I do not feel like defending myself because its going be another circle again. I hardclaim cop.

[Chip Butty]

UNVOTE: Paradise

[James Brafin]

Hey! Sorry, I've been insanely busy lately, but here's what I've got going in terms of reads.
Achamian
He reads town to me because he's been very inquisitive about reads and seems genuinely curious about why we're all leaning that way. Also, his anti-hammer thing is pretty townie to me.
sheepsaysmeep
He also seems townie for most of the same reasons. But his actions concerning "buddying" area little concerning. He might actually fall below Chip.
Chip Butty
MathBlade
Bory
aphix
Jodaxq
Paradise

[James Brafin]

Chip Butty
He fell way down when he unvoted Paradise for no apparent reason. Definitely on the scummy side now. He's lurked a lot too, which doesn't help.
MathBlade
Honestly has said little in terms of game. Could be townie, could be scummy. Without a few more non-theory posts, it can be hard to tell.
Bory
His lurking has got me worried he's scum. And he's only posted once about game.
aphix
Going to bump him up to townie. He's pretty chill, doesn't seem to be worried about getting lynched, but also has no intention of accidentally hammering.
Jodaxq
All the walls ]makes me feel like he's purposely trying to hide something. Plus, he seems to be protecting Paradise while trying to deflect. A true scumread for this guy.
And Paradise
So many errors, covers, AtE, trying to blow it off, getting defensive, ect. He's so scummy looking it's not even funny.
Also, here is why I find his Cop claim dubious:
By claiming Cop, either column B or row 2 are possible. If we're in B, then no one can prove his claim, which makes him safe. If we're in row 2, doctor won't claim to protect and roleblocker obviously won't claim. So no one will counter-claim, and it leaves him safe.
Except if someone claims Bulletproof (BP) townie or Tracker, he's screwed. BP will be safe for at least one more night, and if there is no BP, there is a doctor, which means if there is a tracker, we can play Follow The Cop. So both are really safe claims for us at the moment, which could help the game.

So I'm going to push for a BP claim. I'll start: I am not a BP. Anyone else?

[MathBlade]

I would have wrote some stuff but honestly I do not feel like defending myself because its going be another circle again. I hardclaim cop.

Getting ready for work but if you either are the cop or know a cop can't exist because of the setup the proper way to cc is to just say "That can't be right" or something similar don't claim what you are.

Then the lynch is between the counterclaimer and Paradise.

If no one counter claims Paradise is confirmed Town.