Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[Ranmaru]

When did your read on Postie change and why?

[LicketyQuickety]

When did your read on Postie change and why?

IDK when it changed. It changed when i had the idea that it didn't look like Postie was actually playing, but that RC was playing through Postie. Let me go look for the first quote.

Unpopular opinion: I think Gamma's town.

OK, so why do you, Postie, have an unpopular opinion?

This was the fist time I posted this thought ITT.

[Ranmaru]

What was your read on Postie at that time?

[Dunnstral]

IDK when it changed. It changed when i had the idea that it didn't look like Postie was actually playing, but that RC was playing through Postie. Let me go look for the first quote.

I think I said something like this too without specifying rc

[Davsto]

@Davsto I haven't done any ISO runs of people other than Eddie Sauce Chilly and LQ
Also not switching since I want to play with Ranmaru

Ooh I forgot to reply to this. My point was (remembering I hadn't yet reached the big big you-tsq discussion about it) it looked like the kind of vote that wasn't made naturally at the time from things that actually happened, but the kind of one that arises from reading someone's ISO to find a reason to vote them, and seeing something bad without actually seeing it in context, yknow? Having seen the big discussion with you and tsq I understand it a bit more and I'm not exactly interested in retreading that argument.

UNVOTE:

Nope, not ready to end the day just yet.

Hey here's the bad unvote I mentioned earlier.

I am concerned that no one is defending Chill. It gives me a bad feeling.

And here's him pivoting. This looks a lot like him getting off a townwagon to look better tomorrow (well, today now I guess). The lack of resistance to the wagon hasn't bothered him until now, even his unvote was just because he was "not ready to end the day just yet". And all the following references to Tchill in his ISO look awful. It reads a lot like he knows that the lynch would end up being on town and is giving enough resistance he can look good tomorrow but actually wants the lynch to go ahead. Weasel wording a lot of the time - he's not arguing that Srceen is town or anything, but he's making a big deal about not doing pre-flips or planning ahead as if Srceen will definitely flip scum. It just all reads really strangely and off. This is why I'm gonna start off the day voting LQ, most likely.

UNVOTE:

Nope, not ready to end the day just yet.

If tchill is a scum read, what more exactly do you want?

I ask this partially in game and partially out of game, because honestly I see stuff like this all the time where people are like "welp, we have 5 days left so we can't hammer." which I think is silly. I've already gotten about as much reading done as I can without flips imo, and I really would just prefer to get some and then go from there.

The only thing I really want before day end is for davsto and ranmaru to finish reading the thread and go from there.

If that's what you meant than carry on.

It has more to do with the fact that there is like zero resistance to this wagon on Chill. That is what I am looking at. Ending day this early is also time wasted.

Again, it seems odd he's touting this as the "main reason" when it wasn't even mentioned at first. It's like he realised that his initial reason didn't look good enough and wouldn't allow him to keep resisting voting until day end so had to come up with something else to save face.

I have a readlist but I'd rather not share it for now because if I get nightkilled I don't want there to be ambiguity about why it happened. I don't want to give Eddie an out.
Alternatively, I'd be happy to share my reads once I've placed all my nulls because then I can die having done my job. Not that I'm saying my reads are likely to be super duper amazingly accurate or anything, but dying before having made a guess for the scumteam I can be happy with just sucks.

oh good something frm the rc book on how to play mafia. Seriously this is ridiculous because, not does it (a) give you an excuse to give fewer reads (making you much harder to read) and (b) mean that your good reads are just flat out unable to be seen so actually a lot of information would be lost on your death, its reasoning is completely flawed. That is, if you did get nightkilled, we wouldn't assume Eddie incriminated - if anything, we'd assume wifom going on and not lynch Eddie.

game of hers I linked

For reference

I noticed nsg is still considers herself newbie-ish in that game, so here's another more recent scum game so you can see how she's improved. The stuff she's done this game is still well outside of her scum range.

I was sceptical at first but I'm now pretty happy with the meta read on nsg, although I'd really prefer she just, yknow, contributed a lot more. Might push and encourage her throughout the day.

Anyway, I'm now getting to the point where reading every post is giving me an awful sense of deja vu - I think I've reached the limit of usefulness of this exercise for me, as fun as it was.

[Davsto]

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

he bad

[Ranmaru]

I'm thinking the team is [LQ > Eddie > Marquis].

LQ

:
LQ's post is force in his #888. LQ tries to shade my replace in his #829 Shea asked him if he why he didn't think my catchup was genuine, and responds saying that he laughed at me misrepresenting him, and fence sits his read on me. Yet, this has nothing to do with his point that I had no 'unique' reads. Seems like a slight back track of his original position. LQ throws shade at Screen in his #1058, and while null scum reading him in his #999. Yet, LQ doesn't join the wagon on Screen, he avoids it while poking at him. He then votes Postie, who he read as null in his #999, but has not stated a read change nor did he have any progression. My assumption is that he saw my case on her, and took the opportunity to place his vote on Postie to A) Draw associative between her and him, and B) To stay off the ScreenTOWN wagon. LQ's #1299 shows that he prefers to muddy the connection between himself and Postie, to drag her down in his eventual lynch.

Eddie

:
Eddie's #1315 Shows he scumreads CES for hammering. Then, he votes Marquis in his #1320 while scumreading myself for no reason at all. In his #1336 he states I'm trying to draw off pressure from Postie (LQ v Postie), which contradicts his initial read of CES MARQ RAN. It shows that he has no genuine reads here, and is applying the same tactic LQ is, muddying his connection with myself to drag me down in his eventual lynch.

Marquis

:
Marquis enters voting North following Postie, with weak reasoning in his #24. This is in response to Postie asking why he voted North, not a good response. Marquis states he is having a hard time getting into the game in his#381 but lurks for quite a bit and doesn't try to get back into it, which he admits to in #631 . He talks about who is scum on his wagon, LQ in his #455. He is sidelining while not really pushing anything, like in his #877 and then unvotes in his #879 and nothing else. He has progression for LQ but he never follows up with it. In general, he seems more interested in getting a good position in town, fails and gets wagoned, and then lurks out to survive and dodge the lynch. Then he comes in late with with 1226 voting LQ. It is badly timed, it does not seem genuine.

LQ and Eddie are both trying to muddy connections between universal town reads, since they seem to have no other option, or little options available to them. Today, we lynch either LQ or Eddie. Then the other the next day.

[Ranmaru]

Vote: LQ

[Postie]

IDK when it changed. It changed when i had the idea that it didn't look like Postie was actually playing, but that RC was playing through Postie. Let me go look for the first quote.

I think I said something like this too without specifying rc

Yeah you did and if you're gonna try and argue that it's AI again we're gonna have a bad time
Ftr RC has only been weighing in heavily today and just before deadline yesterday

Also

@LQ

someone has said exactly you're saying about town-me before without me even being hydra'd or teamed with RC:

I was pretty sure you were town, but some things sounded so manipulative rc like lol.
I mean, I said it in the game, it was just weird to see from you.

[Davsto]

VOTE: Eddie

Postie is either bussing or has a good read here in my estimation. Someone who is good at looking at wagons can analyze Eddie's wagon.

What makes you think that Postie could be bussing? What about her push suggests that to you?

Yo postie your post is great and all but one town and one scum game does not a meta make. Could I ask for (less thorough of course) examples from more town and scum games just to be sure this isn't just lucky and coincidental examples?

I mean it does make his meta when the games are literally night and day and he's still a newb in terms of the amount of games he's played.

Not at all. There are many more factors affecting a player's play than their alignment - the type of game, the size, their exact role in the game, not to mention the myriad of real life factors. In fact, him being a newb in terms of games played only exaggerates that - that is, a newb who is getting to grips is much more likely to play unpredictably. If you can't show me that he consistently plays like this as scum and consistently plays not like this as town, then meta alone is not enough for a vote from me.

Like what do you think the explanation for a sudden inability to make clear reads progressions and pushes when someone has been shown to be capable of it as town is, if not that they're scum (especially when it lines up with previous play as scum)? That they just suddenly became bad at the game? Because I mean it's obviously not that he's struggling to keep up or produce content in general like Tchill was since Eddie has been literally wallposting at points.

I could probably show you examples where I had games where I suddenly played really badly as town despite playing well earlier. If I can find Eddie towngames where he plays more like this (which I'm gonna have a lil search for tonight), it doesn't matter why he's suddenly playing like this, it shows that it isn't necessarily certain-scum meta therefore it's not fully valid. It may make him more likely to be scum, but not for certain.

But fine:
viewtopic.php?f=100&t=61168&user_select%5B%5D=20256
This was Eddie's Team Mafia 2015 game, where he was town. Note the lack of fluff, how he engages with others, and how he was more than capable of giving clear and detailed reasoning.
I guess I can find more if it's super important to get you to vote Eddie.

Ooh, one more game. Exciting.

I'm gonna do my own EddieFenix meta-analysis to get my own opinion rather than just skimming the linked games like I'm gonna guess every other player has.

[EddieFenix]

Might as well dive my BulbaFenix hydra games as well. Cause those are a good look into things as well

-insert Kermit drinking tea pic here-

[Ranmaru]

Eddie, Why did your read on CES change?

[Ranmaru]

[LQ > Eddie > Marquis > | AD > Dunn | NSG > CES > Davsto | Lycan > Gamma > TSQ > Ranmaru]

[Postie]

I'm gonna do my own EddieFenix meta-analysis to get my own opinion

Okay I'm holding you to this and I expect great things >=[
The fate of town rests on citizens like you >=[
frow ny face

[Ranmaru]

[LQ > Eddie > Marquis > | AD > Dunn | NSG > CES > Davsto | Lycan > Postie > Gamma > TSQ > Ranmaru]

Forgot to add Postie. I think we have this game in the bag. Seeing LQ and Eddie make desperate plays seems like we have cornered them.

[EddieFenix]

Why did your read on CES change?

When I finally have a good sounding board to bounce things off of that I've been waiting to discuss things with, I start to see that I'm either A.) Nuts or B.) Not Nuts.

@LQ1:

Spoiler:

@Cogito ... sorry, I was mesmerized by the view ... the wagon! The momentum for another, I see it. I'm sure the pressure will be unbearable for scum to deal with if I hop on it for the sake of interrogation, really. But I'm not wasting my vote, that would be impossible.

Dunn has a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Llamarble is essentially a naked vote, nothing to analyze there.
Postie looks more or less like a naked vote as well.
Wgeurts is voting marquise because there is nothing better to vote atm. This looks kinda opportunistic.
GE vote is prolly the Scummiest of all of them, tbh. Weird that they say Llama is wrong about Postie but right about Marquise. How does GE know Llama is Town if they have such a disparity of reads?

Creature thinks Eddie, Dan and North are Town.

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

You're capable of more than this as town and my team mates don't think you've been towny either.

Proposal for a set of acronyms:

• MTT - my teammates think
• IDCAWYTMTBYMBLTEYPWEG - I don't care about what your teammates think because you might be lying to enhance your posts with extra gravitas
• WYELT?EAIFTR..R?! - Would you, ergo, lynch this? Ergo as in 'for these reasons.. Really?!
• TYRUF? - Then Y R U Frontin'?

Yeah I guess that post doesn't really incite the kind of engagement that would be likely to help me sort you. You've just been really flat and superificial this game which isn't what I'm used to seeing from town!you and idk what to do with that.

Do you have any questions for me? You haven't really engaged with me this game except to ask one easy question about my meta.

The pressure-encompassing argument doesn't hold water if you immediately come clean about how bad it was in the first place, and then follow up with an instigation for inquiry from your supposed target. Can't tell if honestly not caring about how -perceived town or obvious scum. I guess that can amount in a null, ironically, effectively, under such extremely polarizing circumstances. Commodore, estimate spectrum of scum locus -approximation sensor data on aforementioned postie quote. Visually disambiguate. On Screen.
See? It's white in the middle, which means obvtown, but pink-reddish gaining radius and then cooling off again into null.

Remember when I said Sauce was talking in fucking MOONLOGIC?! Like, I had NO CLUE wtf they were saying.... I get why I couldn't get it. It was wrapped in someone trying to fluff the ever living hell out of their posts with words and shit to look town. Now.... We take a look at this post

VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum

@Ergo Let me explain. The quieter wgeurts becomes, the more he can hear .. let's just say one cannot not communicate.

@Liquety's vote (yes, I'm addressing the vote) by now seems more townie to me because it was mirroring my ex-vote on wgeurts, and mirroring is something town needs in order to flash-communicate and coordinate what would disrupt the thread's susceptibility to scumhunting if expressed otherwise.
Thus we encompass the elements of time and vigilence for tone intensity variance into our repertoire of dimensions we can measure and analyze. Basic reaction test trap set up. I estimate the vote's halflife to drop significantly causing it to bounce away to a more suitable target to preserve its own relevance and purpose, lest we have a clear indication of scum on our hands.

Go back to when CES's wagon was getting some traction/attention, Sauce came on and just hit it. This doesn't come from a town slot or mindset, it comes from someone who is scum, seizing the moment and LEAPING at a mislynch. Add to the fact that Sauce about came unglued when I mentioned the moonlogic shit, something don't sit/smell right now that I get some feedback on the discussion.

I can vote tchill because of something momo said. Are you sure you're ok with Cogito airport light -stick guying votes on to Marquis and insert random wagon size -contender, or can I persuade you to punish him for it with me?

Ok, let's unite forces, Liquety.
VOTE: Chill

Meanwhile you can figure out why even though ppl expressed sympathy with my attacks on you the same ppl don't hesitate to follow your vote on Chill as opposed to helping me attack Cogito.

Votecount 1.14

Tchill13(4)

~ Llamarble, Thestatusquo, LicketyQuickety, Sauce

Marquis(3)

~ wgeurts, Cogito Ergo Sum, Dunnstral

Gamma Emerald(2)

~ EddieFenix, ActionDan

Cogito Ergo Sum(2)

~ Lycanfire, northsidegal

Postie(1)

~ Tchill13

northsidegal(1)

~ Marquis

EddieFenix(1)

~ Postie


Not Voting (1): Gamma Emerald

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-02-04 21:00:00)

MOD Notes

wguerts is being prodded. The user has 24 hours to make a content post or be force replaced.

This is the VC going forward, with Sauces vote on Tchill, that would change the game entirely. TChill gets the lead wagon and.... Well.... Wouldn't you know it, Tchill slot flipped town after it became the top wagon. Ran is now in Sauce's spot. Also, if anything, EVERYTHING. Literally EVERYTHING is scum from Sauce, according to the analysis from Mastina. These are just highlights of the super duper uber obvscum stuff for JUST Sauce.

@LQ2

Spoiler:

I don't like the beginning for Llamarble, but I can understand it if it is what I think it is, trying to get things rolling.

Mastina thinks this is a nothing burger for a comment.

that's posturing if i've ever seen it.

VOTE: llamarble

I can see why you would think that.

Another nothing burger for the masses!

To be clearer: why is your reaction not a) asking Llamarble what he's talking about, or b) voting me to put extra pressure on me?

This is where I think you start to go wrong, Postie. His post doesn't seem genuine at the start, I would have voted him for it, without asking a question. I think it's situational, sometimes you ask a question to clarify an issue, sometime you feel strongly about the post that you just skip that part and simply vote and state a suspicion. Question to you here is, why should it be either of option a) or b) rather then c) Voting with reasoning. I do like your effort though, it is genuine and it reminds me of our previous game. I kind of check out from that conversation between NSG and Postie after that, not as interested. So far, I did like NSG's reaction to Llama.

In my own words from Mastina's thoughts: Hot scum on scum action, baby. Followed by more!

Two votes instead of one creates more pressure and more focused pressure.

Again, I felt there was no reason to. Why add a vote to a player who you feel scum might be lazily voting already. I do agree that two votes is better so there could be early wagons, but you didn't deserve that many at the time. If you feel you have a better lead, go for it instead of just bandwagoning. Now if there was no better lead, sure bandwagon to help scum have incentive to join so you can sniff them out later.

Agreed.

Vote: 'marble

Why did you vote Marble here?

Earlier in this post, there's a logical disconnection (or cognitive dissonance as Mastina calls it) with Ran's earlier thoughts. Go back, read this post, and you'll see that he saw reason to suspect Marble and why NSG voted him. There's no reason he should ask this. He's trying to look town, without actually BEING town. Especially with the disconnect in thought process.

Don't like this post. In general, town is best served by existing the RVS as quickly as possible. So often times town pushes in RVS ARE ridiculous on face and ARE forced. I would expect a town player who is earnestly attempting to create information to read much the same as a scum player who is trying to "fake it" because definitionally we have no information to attack.

I don't see why voting Llamarble over Postie in that situation would stagnate RVS, allowing her to hide if she wanted. Is bandwagoning a priority to voting someone you feel has a slightly better chance to be scum then the bandwagon target? I like to shoot from the hip, so if I see a post like Llama's, I attack hard and that can also gain reactions and progress the game, no?

Mastina feels this doesn't match the quote above. Why is Ran calling out CES's Llmarble vote??

You don't think his catch-up-style entry to the game felt forced? I'm assuming he's used to a spammier meta than we are and catching up on a 4/5 page game seems weird to me. Achieving a natural game entry as scum is generally not trivial, especially given the Marquiswagon, and this seems like an affectation that would let him sidestep the essential difficulty.

Why are you arguing with Llama instead of voting Tchill here if you think his catch up is forced? I don't really feel you have any solid ground to be voting Llama here. Seems like you are being reserved. Why are you lacking presence this game?

Mastina also feels that this also SCREAMS dissonance with the other quotes above. The phrase "having his cake and eating it too" came to mind. For some players, it's ok to hold that thought on Marble and vote for him. But for CES?? Gotta have a rule change!

VOTE: EddieFenix
Also can we take a moment to discuss the hot garbage that is EddieFenix's ISO
It's just a bunch of sitting back and saying things from the sidelines or am I missing something here

Nothing really pinging me for him, he's sort of null to me. Wouldn't bat an eye if he died though, but I'd rather others die over him.

Compare Ran's interactions with the rest of the class compared to his interaction's with Postie. If you find the differences, YOU WON!!

'Marble, why do you consider Marquis to be the towniest of the three lurkers {Dunnstral, wgeurts, Marquis} when his posts have a) been scummier and his lurking has been more in the style of a scumbag?

Vote: Marquis

Can you elaborate? I don't see it.

If this is a scum read, why are you treating it so lightly? If you guessed "because he's defending his partner," you'd be correct because it's not something that comes from town!

VOTE: marquis

You vote Marquis, but don't give a reason for leaving Tchill. You never really attack Tchill, you only interact with him after he responds to you. I want to know why you haven't gone into his actual play this game, rather then hedging around him.

I am going back here for the time being:
VOTE: Chill

Why are you going back here again?

Disconnect in thought while also not really doing anything with his catch-up.

Quote for emphasis

I think we should lynch LQ today, and we can get good connections to others like CES and Tchill. Again, LQ has omgused shea and developed a read on him in a reactive manner, not a proactive manner. He isn't trying to sort Shea, and he hasn't analyzed Tchill when he voted him, he resorted to meta instead. He's been hedging around him, falling back on his vote on Tchill, Marq, Tchill, then Shea, etc. I don't believe that his team mates are also not helping him, because this is also a team game, doesn't make sense to go all solo. I think anything else right now is a distraction, and I really dislike CES's votes on Postie and Gamma.

Lynch LQ Today

, and sleep soundly. I work evenings most of the week but luckily I have off Thursday and Friday. We don't have much time left, let's not flounder around. I am going to sleep, sorry for quadruple post.

---

@

Marquis

: Can you move your vote? It's not really doing much on NSG. Give me a read on LQ, Eddie, and CES. Then tell me how you'd feel joining a LQ wagon.
@

ActionDan

: Can you re-check LQ for me? After reading my #819 and his ISO, would you care to join his wagon with me?
@

CES

: Why did you vote Marble in your #68? If you answered that, can you quote/link? Also, can you respond or quote/link answer to my response to your #526?
@

TSQ

: I want you to join LQ with me if the wagon builds up, since I know you also find him suspicious.
@

LQ

: The thing is, I don't get any pings from players like WGEURTZ or DUNN, etc. I am not going to force a read simply to have a unique view point. What matters is that we are on the

right

track, not that I abandon it simply to better my image of 'having a unique' read. Why aren't you voting? Also, give me your two most recent town games and scum games. You state I misrepresent your intent, tell me what your actual intent is and how I am misunderstanding it. I also asked you some questions in my catch up, those are also helpful for me to sort you. Please answer them. (Like, why is Ces Null/Town?)
@

Tchill

: Vote LQ.
@

Postie

: Can you give a case on Eddie, short and sweet? Also, recent thoughts on LQ?
@

Llamarble

: Talk to me a bit more about LQ. Why is he like, null-scum to you (since he's like right after your null line).

~ 2 of these quotes, are not like the others, 2 of these quotes, point directly to scum!! ~ (If you guess Marquis and Postie, again, you're correct!)

Marquis's case is pretty easy. This is white flag. If I can balance taking care of a child and irl bullocks while also: reading up on the game, being interactive and also playing along side my team for games, I'd not funnel in excuses left right and center in my ISO for why I can't be active and THEN, right at the end of the day, spam the thread like crazy with posts. For example...

Spoiler:

Limiting myself to the last 5 pages sigh

I still don't know where CES stands in his reads this game and don't know why he thought Marquis was scummy to begin with earlier before the lurking.

Yeah, things aren't really going quite as planned; I thought things would develop more helpfully. The main reasons I found Marquis scummy very early on were 1) his general awkward tone early on and 2) the whole "representative" affectation. I think Signs and Void from last Team Mafia is pretty important context here - his early posts here feel really similar. I think both of those things are more significant than his lurking although his lurking has also felt scum-motivated (but I'd be more hard-pressed to explain the nuts and bolts of that feeling).

Lol. All I remember from that game is that it made me never want to pick scum again, if given the choice. Even from skimming it looks nothing like my play here, and also nothing like my town game. Too tryhard

For the record CES is in the same pool as Llama for me aura-wise. Older reputable player I don't want to bother reading, don't touch early on, see if one dies, etc etc. But this seems like a massive reach compared to Llama pulling out the talking about teammates thing first (which I'm still half convinced was a fake read either way for the sake of having a scumread)

Also I forgot to mention this earlier on but I would expect anyone choosing scum in this game specifically is either inexperienced (Gamma, nsg still maybe?), overconfident (Lick), or one of the older set (Llama, CES, Dan). That's more distracting than helpful right now, but Gamma and Lick fit both my expected persona and my teammates and I find them both decent candidates for scum. (And tbh they have more reads than I do iirc but I'll relay them tomorrow when on a computer)

Will try to do a full sort tomorrow but rn I have Gamma and Lick as scumreads/lynches I'd be ok with and Postie as mine and Skrew's heavy early townread. That's extremely limited but going to go off of that after work. Don't do anything rash etc etc, but can't complain if they get lynched while I'm out etc etc etc

Also I'm realizing I'm signing off after having said I would read a whole 5 pages lol

Easy peasy surface level reads, thread momentum being followed with this post, and obviously the things left unspoilered.

Was going to post, thread was closed, good night time,,,

Also noticing Gamma is voting LQ who is voting Tchill???? LAter

-wanking motion- Literally avoiding prod while doing fuck all. -back to wanking motion-

Skimming while freezing weather walking in preparation for actually coming through with a read tonight

Need to say before I forget that it feels like lq and gamma keep distancing, just not sure if it's so obvious because they're scum or obvious because they're town, I'm only partially applying burden of skill here. Oops

-still wanking- Doing a big ol nothin to be useful to town and having empty promises.

@NSG

Spoiler:

i actually seriously for real this time promise to start playing the game again. full disclosure – i didn't actually catch up the last few times i said i would or over the night phase. i am currently on page 38.

i mean, this is far and away the easiest game to catch up on, but that's neither here nor there.

i don't think there's a point in asking you specific questions if you haven't read the thread at all – they'd inevitably be leading questions, wouldn't they? can you just start reading the thread?

Mastina asks: Thoughts on Marquis, given you stated this? Also

gamma, i don't mean any offense by this but your thoughts in 530 seem superficial.

Proposal for a set of acronyms:

• MTT - my teammates think
• IDCAWYTMTBYMBLTEYPWEG - I don't care about what your teammates think because you might be lying to enhance your posts with extra gravitas
• WYELT?EAIFTR..R?! - Would you, ergo, lynch this? Ergo as in 'for these reasons.. Really?!
• TYRUF? - Then Y R U Frontin'?

I like these acronyms, gives an air of keeping things brief, not getting bogged down in wordiness.

i mean, do you

really

think that these acronyms serve a functional purpose or that people were going to adopt them? i'm having trouble believing that that's a real thought that you had, and the same applies to a few other things you said there.

Mastina requests you follow this to it's final destination in the brain/logic department. It was a point against Gamma, but also a point against Sauce now Ran.

@AD:

Spoiler:

I'm willing to call Lycan's 430 town. I understand a couple of reservations people have with it, (6 scum reads, CES not being mentioned etc.) but it looks, feels, and has meaty arguments that flow and read town.

LQ still looks town to me. Lots of posts I've glossed over admittedly and I probably could use to recheck my read there, but I don't see the scummitude others do.

None of Marquis' recent posts look to me as anything other than null, and certainly not giving me town vibes for the language, emotion or any content within as suggested by Gamma. In fact the time spent making those posts could have been used to read the thread, as I'm sure Marquis is aware.

I still don't know where CES stands in his reads this game and don't know why he thought Marquis was scummy to begin with earlier before the lurking.

I don't know why mathdino has a townread of Sauce. I trust that he does, but I'm baffled and can't respect it. I continue to see nothing of value from that slot, and I find it's voting patterns incomprehensible.

Mastina says hi and that you need to follow thru because you are 100% correct.

Reason's for Llmarble being dead and Postie being Scum

Spoiler:

I don't care about that I just want to lynch correctly D1 before I go poof.
Eddie feels sorta lynchbaity; wking for gamma then pushing eddie feels like how I would play this as scum, but Postie has done a good job on word choices and stuff at a few points idk

Postie:
In the first link you self meta a bit mentioning you're prone to "can you" questions as scum
You have 3 can yous in this game.
Do you really think Eddie is scum? I may be falling for 'too scummy to be scum' here, idk.
Like, yeah, he is not performing the basic functions of a town, but is that because he's scum? Not sure.
Like I was saying before, I mostly like your tone Postie but I do think you're playing this game like I would as scum. Starting pretty strong, then slowing down a bit and the followup content is defending an unpopular (but fairly obvious because indignant?) townread and giving a scumread on someone who isn't living up to what they should be doing (this was your reason for LQscummy earlier too).
What fraction of your team mafia time is going into this game?

I kinda agree with CES; Tchill got an independent read, and then repeated (that's what my note to self is about) his same idea after not much attention was paid to it.
I also agreed with him about the Postie thing he didn't like, which I think of as being breakdowny, for lack of a better term.
I think An ISO could be worse, though I won't call him town or anything.
Some of my Tchill vote was "there's a latent wagon on this guy; what will happen if I vote him?" The read was admittedly a little stale even when I went on.
Dunnstral and LQ are the serious possibilities for scum voting TChill.

I'm hoping some scumteam drawn from Dunnstral LQ AD, possibly CES could work.
If not I'll soon hit the "I have significant reservations about every lynch" point and be sad.

Mastina feels that Marble hit the nail on the head as far as their thought process for why Postie would be scum, but didn't follow it all the way thru. I feel that with him out of the way, Postie has full reign to run wild and try to spearhead my lynch. I'm not going to let it happen though.

[Ranmaru]

I asked CES because I wanted to know his reasoning. It may not be the same reasoning that I had for considering his entrance post bad. CES was being reserved, and his interactions didn't really seem like he was suspecting him, just being along for the ride. You state why I was not feeling Marquis, I was null reading him at the time. If I agree with something in the catch up, that is all there is to it. I'm not going to try to regurgitate things that have already been said. I don't see how my catch up did nothing, I commented on things that stuck out to me, and I voted suspects. I interacted that way with Postie because I was town reading her then. CES's #870 shows he was simply on Llama to needle him, since he didn't want to be the seventh vote on Marquis. I was reading TM 2012, seeing him confident stating his scum team over and over again. Here, not as much. (He linked the game to me a while ago, which got me interested in TM)

[Ranmaru]

Since when did you scumread CES, and for how long did you have that scumread?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: EddieFenix

Obv. Also don't think it's a coincidence that the only other person expressing serious interest in this lynch was nightkilled. Me dead + Llamarble alive would've probably been more dangerous for Eddie than the other way round.

It's absolute Bull Shit to say Llama was killed because they were looking at Eddie. Like seriously...

Agreed. He was obvtown, simple as that.

Stop the presses, Mastina hath deep dove my earhole (more or less CAPS LOCKED in my PT lol)

Ran and Marquis are 100%, dead to rights, scum. No need to question it.

UNVOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum
VOTE: Marquis

Seeing as I townread Ran yeah I'm questioning this a little. Marquis vote is good though.
VOTE: Marquis

Trying to draw away from Postie.

What do you mean by this?

Fair enough. Later on, yes. LQ, I want a full reads list from you too.

LQ you are focusing a lot on Postie right now. I want a reads list.

Kinda obvious you're trying to draw heat away from someone.

It sure is convienient for you that your townread on me magically reversed itself to exactly line up with the kind of argument you needed to appeal to LQ

Hmmm.... Shade.... I don't need it. It's quite cold where I am atm. The sun would be nice.

However, I also bring word from Mastina. From Town to OMGLYNCHITWITHFIRE

Town:

ActionDan
Dunnstral
Davsto
northsidegal
Thestatusquo
Lycanfire

Town/Null
LicketyQuickety
Cogito Ergo Sum

Null
Gamma Emerald

Scum/Null
Postie

OMGLYNCHITWITHFIRE
Marquis
Ranmaru

We lynch the last 2 with fire, we win as town cause those are the 2 that are obv scum to her.

Can mastina explain why? And has mastina played with Ranmaru? I know both are older players but I'm not sure, and I don't care to do that type of meta dive when not alt-hunting
Also wasn't I in your townpile before, what happened?

Vote: LQ

Why not continue voting Marquis?

[LQ > Eddie > Marquis > | AD > Dunn | NSG > CES > Davsto | Lycan > Postie > Gamma > TSQ > Ranmaru]

Forgot to add Postie. I think we have this game in the bag. Seeing LQ and Eddie make desperate plays seems like we have cornered them.

I am pretty on board with what you're sayin about Eddie but I'm not going to condemn him just yet, as I see it mastina is just going insane in his team PT and her trusts her
And honestly while I don't like how Lycan has been reading me maybe I've been tunneled on him a bit based on that.

[Lycanfire]

I have a real dilemma here. I have this sofa - it's a really big one, and I need six people to help me lift it.

Also, the sofa is CES' head.

VOTE: CES

[MathBlade]

Votecount 2.2

Marquis(2)

~ EddieFenix, Gamma Emerald

LicketyQuickety(2)

~ Davsto, Ranmaru

EddieFenix(2)

~ LicketyQuickety, Postie

Cogito Ergo Sum(1)

~ Lycanfire


Not Voting (6): Cogito Ergo Sum, Marquis, ActionDan, northsidegal, Thestatusquo, Dunnstral

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2018-02-18 19:30:00)

[Thestatusquo]

I think RC accusing me of tunneling is ridiculous. I voted tchill and was making cases on LQ as another top scum read. I interacted on many other points of discussion day 1, including posting a full read list and being willing to move elsewhere at DL if people weren't feeling either of the two wagons that I thought were most likely to be scum.

If RC wants to scum read me because I said I think he's bad at mafia, all the more power to him, but can he at least come up with some reasons that are even plausible?

[Thestatusquo]

I need to think about the flips because a part of what made LQ scum was the tchill associations. Not all of it, but some part. I think my votes going to end up there but I want to reread postie's eddie case and think about what the tchill flip means for LQ before I do.

[Ranmaru]

Hey Shea. Let me know if there is anything you want to talk about read wise.

[Ranmaru]

Gamma, I am more confident in LQ right now.