Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[LicketyQuickety]

Votecount 3.1

Marquis(2)

~ Cogito Ergo Sum, LicketyQuickety

northsidegal(1)

~ Ranmaru

LicketyQuickety(1)

~ Gamma Emerald

Cogito Ergo Sum(1)

~ Lycanfire


Not Voting (6): Davsto, Marquis, ActionDan, northsidegal, Thestatusquo, Dunnstral

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2018-03-02 07:15:00)

FLAVOR

This is an automated vote count generated by a tool written by MathBlade. It goes much smoother with exact votes but will try to detect bold votes and misspellings. If you have issues during this beta, please get MathBlade.

[LicketyQuickety]

Gamma, are you still feeling I am Scum?

[Gamma Emerald]

Honestly not really. More recently while I wasn't a fan of your push on me and Ran it wasn't like your past play where I felt you were misrepping people. You were pushing things that were clearly there and you reconsidered when you saw evidence to the contrary.

[Ranmaru]

At first, from that push I was beginning to waver on my read of quick, but seeing his reads, and then him explaining his mindset, I totally understand what and why he was doing what he was doing, so now my town read on LQ has strengthened. Going to try finishing the re-read tonight.

[LicketyQuickety]

yeah, I looked at them and I already know what your narrative is going to be because its the same one you used to attack me earlier.

It hasn't gotten any better.

Explain 751, 842, 845, 863, 1627, and 1787.

Here are the posts you want me to "explain" and I will also quote the post where I literally did explain them and apparently you're just ignoring that fact.

751: Do you think llamarble was being surface level here? I think picking down through to what might happen if eddie is town and hammers is far deeper analysis than scum players usually fake. Do you disagree? If so, why? Provide me examples of that kind of analysis being faked by scum. Because I haven't seen it and I've been playing 10+ years.


Heres 842:

@Ran I would happily kill either LQ or Tchill. Right now there is a wagon on one of them and not on the other. I have pretty high confidence in my scum reads on both of them, so I don't see why it makes sense for me to switch over to LQ at this time unless the wagon moved over there for some reason independent of me.

What is your strong SR on me based on? I expect some pretty strong evidence considering this is D1.

We had like a 5 page back and forth about what my scum read on your was based on. I explained it to you multiple times. We argued about it for pages.

There's literal no way you don't remember why I'm scum reading you. This is more well poisoning.

Oh look I responded, telling you to read the entire game. Because honestly I still don't understand how you could not understand how I was scum reading you. Here are some of the posts that I was trying to direct you to look back on that apparently you're too fucking lazy to do so.

I consider what people say about their play, but I don't let people tell me why they're doing the things they do because people lie. You know damn well I know you're quick and I believe I've told you that I've read your wiki, but I also recall you have something of a poor memory, so I forgive you for not remembering that.

The problem with your actions is that the things you're doing also have significant scum motivations. Regardless of if you think you're doing them for other reasons, I'm not in your head, and I can't just trust you.

And I also am starting to be pretty sure you're scum because you're poking and drawing almost no reasonable conclusions. You start long discussions with me about nonsense about how reck is using different tools to find reads, and then disengage as soon as I try to explain. That's the biggest problem here. You're poking, but you don't seem to care about the responses to your pokes. At least not from the people you're poking. You seem to be singularly interested in the responses of other players, which makes me think you're more interested in finding where you can find an easy lynch, and not concerned about finding the correct lynch. This squares quite nicely with your vote on marquis also, which you have not fully explained after naked voting. It's nice to be on the highest vote getter who happens to not be posting much.

Actually, literally all the votes on marquis right now are atrocious.

Yeah, If you are going to accuse someone of something, you really shouldn't be doing it yourself. I am talking about you accusing me of just dropping things. You have done this a lot this game in my interactions with you. If you have a viable response to why you have done this, than so do I. And it's looking more and more like Marquis is Scum, so I'd like to know what you defense of him is based on here.

1) I didn't say you're going for the easiest lynch. I said you were going for an easy lynch, which I think "the second easiest lynch" would qualify as.

2) I don't agree with people just because they town read me. That's playing town 101. Please give me more credit than that, I've only been playing this game for 10+ years.

3) you seem to think that this read is coming out of nowhere out of one thing. That's not the case, and it doesn't come from lycan. Lycan's post just made me circle around to something thats been bugging me about your play for basically this whole game, which is what I laid out in my last post. You're poking everywhere, but you don't care about the persons response to the poking. You keep trying to figure out how the rest of the town is responding to the poking. That's the basis of me thinking that your motivation is not to find scum but to find where you can rally town support.

4) I am voting another scum read. I'm allowed to have multiple. Would happily switch to your wagon. I have been pretty transparent about how I feel about people. The reason I asked the question is that you haven't been. I have no way of knowing who you find scummy other than your vote, because you keep poking at cracks and moving on when a wagon doesn't form.

1) Semantics. If you really think you "caught" me for that then your experience does you no justice which leads me to

2) Appeal to authority

3) You talk about my flipping like it's a sure thing. Why?

4) Yeah, who you are Scum reading are Town, so you haven't impressed me with your reads, honestly.

Like that vibe becomes even stronger with the conclusion.

It's another reason I think you're likely to be scum.

You keep trying to subtly discredit scum reads on you. And I just mean like, argue and dispute arguments, because theres obviously town motivation to do that. What I mean is you keep trying to weasel around people scum reading you. One example of it is trying to cast all the people scum reading you as not understanding how you play, and saying they were doing so because they didn't like you playing mechanically, when in fact doing so was not the reason I had stated I was scum reading you, nor do I think its a fair characterization of the reason others were.

Similarly, in this post you seem to be suggesting that llama has not done the work, and subtly implying that his reads on you aren't to be trusted. At no point has llama said or even implied he hasn't read your iso, so you throwing it out there like that reads to me as an attempt to discredit his arguments instead of trying to interact with them.

It's disingenuous. You're not making good faith arguments.

I laid out in GREAT FUCKING DETAIL why I thought you were scum. I did it multiple times. The fact that you couldn't fucking remember is not a fucking scum tell for me.

With regards to me fighting the Scum reads on me: You fucking have meta on me of doing this very thing as Town. Why are you just sweeping that under the rug? Like that was a huge part of the game where havo and others were saying (I think Chill, your teammate was saying the same) that I was only accusing Havo of being Scum because they suspected me first. Like it seems you have drawn zero conclusions about that in the way I approach getting SR.

Llama gave zero details about most everything they have said. Why should I just take it on good faith that Llama has done that work? It seems you are acting in a way that you know Llama is Town already and not questioning that at all. Why?

845

We had like a 5 page back and forth about what my scum read on your was based on. I explained it to you multiple times. We argued about it for pages.

There's literal no way you don't remember why I'm scum reading you

. This is more well poisoning.

You admitted yourself you know I have a bad memory. What the hell, man?

Oh my fucking god look I responded literally TWO POSTS AFTER.

We had like a 5 page back and forth about what my scum read on your was based on. I explained it to you multiple times. We argued about it for pages.

There's literal no way you don't remember why I'm scum reading you

. This is more well poisoning.

You admitted yourself you know I have a bad memory. What the hell, man?

This isn't some passing remark, this is the fundamental and huge part of this game. I simply do not understand how you could possibly have a position on me and how I've played this game without some understanding of why I am scum reading you. Nor do I believe that bad memory means "don't remember a huge thing that happened like 3 days ago"

So basically, you are saying you don't think I have as bad of a memory as I actually do. How would that make me Scum? It would assume I couldn't/wouldn't have the ability to defend myself. I think it should be clear that I am not short of arguments, so where does this come from?

I'm not relitigating the argument. I'm just saying the claim you're making in 850, that llamarble was interpreting my words without context and that I had done nothing to explain them and that I had never confirmed he was correct is DEMONSTRABLY false.

You've basically just said that your hard defence of Llama is completely baseless because otherwise you would see that my interpretation of what you said is correct and Llama's is incorrect. Reason for this is the point I bring up (which is a valid one) is that under what condition do I always vote for you in that situation. This is a situation that has not been answered and so it is NEW. We haven't talked about this yet and if we have, I don't remember getting an answer. So what I am seeing here is although MY interpretation of what you said is true and Llama's is false, you still SR me and TR Llama. How do you account for this disparity?

I didn't respond to this because its bullshit. your entire premise is false. Llamarble was correct and you were wrong. Full stop. Furthermore, clearly you should know I would have this opinion because again we already had a full page long argument about this. You are wrong. The fact that you literally have no idea what colloquial language is is again not a reason I am scum.

So you didn't respond to it because it's bullshit? That's a fucking weak argument mate. If it was bull shit it should be easy as cake to disprove what I said, but you give nothing there. Under what justification do you feel you don't have to answer to this accusation against you? You still never answered even at this stage of the game.

Are you honestly accusing me of having the dastardly scum plan of hoping that people don't realize that 3 does not equal exactly 7?!?!

Is that legitimately what you think is happening right now?

Did I say that is what is happening now?

So I'm scum because I didn't feel like having a fight with you about whether someone saying "in the middle" to mean "not at the very beginning" is valid? Thats fucking bizarre dude. I think you are mistaking me being frustrated with the fact that you don't make ANY fucking sense for a scum tell.

Frankly I hate talking to you because I never understand what you're saying and it seems like at times you're purposefully misunderstanding the things I'm saying. What is the point of pointing out that 3 does not literally equal 7 if you're not trying to suggest I'm misreping? What is the actual fucking point you're making because honestly I'm still not fucking sure, so I have no idea what you even would want me to engage with you on here.

Well, it's not really a Scum tell that you said 3 days is midway through the day, but it is a Scum tell that you just completely drop the point when I say something that you can't explain from me as being a Town perspective. Like, even if you were to say something like "that's stupid" it would give me something from you that you acknowledged my point in the first place. Instead you don't say anything which means you either feel like I don't deserve a response or you know there is an undercurrent of Scum motivation for missrepping how much time is left in the day. Like I can come up with something like "shea said 3 days was midway through the day because he is trying to put it in people's heads to not utilize the full day to get as much out of Day Phase as possible." If I can come up with an explanation why it could be Scummy to say something, I would expect an answer for why you said what you said in the first place. So why DID you say it was midway through the day when it had only been 3 days?

@Ranmaru, Re: my reads changing with little progression. I have talked about this before on this site, see here: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=72320

a lot of the problem is that its not like you really reevaluate, its like you shift from full town reading them to voting them with no warning and no indication that you were ever even remotely thinking of them as someone you might before.

Latest example being davsto.

Yeah, I do the opposite as well and change from Scum to Town reads this is just a part of my play, deal.

do you try to emulate this as scum?

I thought you didn't agree with self-meta. Why are you asking this question?

To answer, I think I have don't it in the past, but more often than not I try and have my reads "make sense" to Town members so it doesn't look like I am laking progression on people. It depends on the game. As Town, I just care more about constantly looking at things from different angles, so that is why my reads change like this. Ultimately, I would say switching reads like this is a tool I utilize, but it's not one I am constantly thinking about. Also, my perspective in doing this as Scum has more of an agenda, which is that I am usually in danger of getting lynched so I try and make it as hard to tie myself to my teammates as possible. And yes, I am actually pretty damn good at doing this considering I rarely see end game as Scum, but I still have a decent record as Scum. Really tho, much of my game as Scum is about confusing Town if I die. That is why I pull things like cross distancing with my teammates. I also try and make believable pushes on my teammates and it usually doesn't get them Lynched because I am actually horrible at pushing lynches because no one ever believes the reads I have. That's why it confuses Town so bad when I push my buddies - because they don't know what I was doing because my pushes make sense coming from me (at least on my teammates).

Literally already answered this. I was trying to catch you in a lie. I didn't. You weren't lying.

This is an incorrect answer. What you should have done is reference back to where you said you don't mind people giving self meta if asked, but that you don't like it when people use it as a defense. Why not include this in your answer? There is literally no reason not to unless you know what you are doing has ill intent.

[Lycanfire]

Preface: I know I'm ignoring questions I'm phoneposting

LQ you said you hated the Marquis wagon based on wagonomics yesterday. Can you explain your feelings on that for me?

Also, I feel like Dunnstral made a big vote off Marquis D1 onto Tchill. You townread Dunnstral, and TRed him yesterday simultanously as well. How do you reconcile both these game reads?

[Ranmaru]

I think you can answer my question easily. How are you reading Shea and why, Lycan? Simple question, just want what is at the top of your head.

[LicketyQuickety]

Preface: I know I'm ignoring questions I'm phoneposting

LQ you said you hated the Marquis wagon based on wagonomics yesterday. Can you explain your feelings on that for me?

Also, I feel like Dunnstral made a big vote off Marquis D1 onto Tchill. You townread Dunnstral, and TRed him yesterday simultanously as well. How do you reconcile both these game reads?

I don't remember saying that about the Marquis wagon yesterday. I think you

might

be talking about what I mentioned in regards to CES.

If you can clarify what you are talking about, I'd be happy to answer.

[MathBlade]

Votecount 3.4

Marquis(2)

~ Cogito Ergo Sum, LicketyQuickety

northsidegal(1)

~ Ranmaru

LicketyQuickety(1)

~ Gamma Emerald

Cogito Ergo Sum(1)

~ Lycanfire


Not Voting (6): Davsto, Marquis, ActionDan, northsidegal, Thestatusquo, Dunnstral

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2018-03-02 07:15:00)

[Lycanfire]

Lycanfire, what is your read on Shea?

Town. I like how he's unwavering in saying Davsto is free to scumread him.

Why not? Lack of NKA is one of the reasons town don't do as well currently.

I was criticizing CES for

not

trying hard to justify the NK. I think doing it without coming to good conclusions is worse than not doing it at all.

--

I'll be plain here: I think Postie was killed because I PoEd LQ away from Postie yesterday. I also PoEd Gamma away from LQ in the past (see: that page they were both scumming it up in my catch up post). It's notable that LQ had gone on Gamma today.

Since day 2 LQ has been voted by: Marquis, Gamma, Ranmaru pretty consistently.

Gamma Emerald (3) ~ ActionDan, Cogito Ergo Sum, LicketyQuickety 853
LicketyQuickety (3) ~ Ranmaru, Srceenplay, Gamma Emerald 961

Postie also had conflict with Ranmaru, but that was precipitated on an Eddie scumslip. I don't know if Ranmaru and RC have history together, but I don't think Ranmaru kills Postie with an Eddie townflip, because he's doing pretty well to fool RC in that case. So if Ranmaru kills Postie, it's incidental, and has another underlying reason like removing a locktown on an LQ flip.

@Lycan,

I am a firm believer that no one is "lock Town" unless they are confirmed by the mod to be Town. Also, don't give me that "there are no associations with Ran" because we haven't got a red flip yet. So no, Ran is not clear. If you have a very good reason to say why he is Town, that is one thing, but to say he is lock Town is not something I can roll with.

Okay, also I have no idea what Ranmaru has to do with this! Gamma isn't being lynched though.

To lycan: "scum!dunn is incapable of original thought", he asks what original thought dunn has given this game and questions what dunn has helped town to do this game (in response to another thing lycan said)

Dunnstral's meta-case on Tchill seemed well intentioned. Something I'm not seeing come up in the simultaneous Dunnstral/Marquis reads is that nobody is mentioning how Dunnstral hopped off Marquis onto Tchill. Frankly, if Marquis is scum, he's getting bussed hard this game, and actually going through with it might be to the scum team's benefit. There's not much of a reason in hopping off there. Similarly if he's town, Dunnstral is hopping off one town wagon to another. Does he need to stick his neck out for that? I would argue that is actually counter-intuitive to lynching Tchill/Screenplay, because the result you'd expect is the result he received: Llamarble immediately suspected him for it, which weakened morale for lynching Tchill.

When Dunnstral is scum he will use other peoples talking points: when he's town he makes his own.

I have a question for you or whatever teammate is playing your slot today: why the fuck do you attack Dunnstral's meta case while simultaneously townreading Marquis?

Post something coherent.

If it was the first time I talked about wagonomics ITT, you might have a point, but it wasn't. I talked about not liking the Marquis wagon due to wagonomics. Also, from what you quoted, I thought I had mentioned something earlier than that about not liking the Chill wagon. You should go back and check that.

This was posted 40 posts after he agreed with Eddie on lynching Marquis / Dunnstral as a townread.

Tell Math I understand why he is seeing me teamed with CES. I haven't said a lot about him. My read for CES is mostly based on the fact that he isn't saying the same thing that everyone else is and he has new insights into players. I view this as really strong Pro-Town behavior because Scum rarely care about bringing in new insights into the game. Scum is primarily concerned with pushing and agenda and they don't need to provided new insights into the game to do that. That said, IF Marquis flips Town, and I highly doubt he will, then I would look at CES a lot closer.

Why not lynch CES first?

--

My problem: if I can do more work casing or gaining reads than other people, that's scummy as fuck. I'm seeing lazy reads (CES, NSG), lazy explanations (LQ). I'm willing to believe that Postie was a freebie kill on someone that can deliver a lynch, so we're going to lynch CES first instead of play guess the scum motive. God bless.

[Lycanfire]

I think you can answer my question easily. How are you reading Shea and why, Lycan? Simple question, just want what is at the top of your head.

I had a Big Ass Post™ ready this morning, hit ctrl+z instead of ctrl+x and lost a quote and response and couldn't fix things between the 600 tabs I had open. I ran out of time.

To me I had already answered / was popping by to get what I needed at the moment.

[Ranmaru]

That's fine, thank you.

[Ranmaru]

Davsto

: Why don't you look at my reasoning for Gamma town in my #2217 and then tell me what you think. Also tell me what you think of LQ v Ranmaru as well.

CES

: Why didn't you explain your mindset to NSG about your vote on Eddie, instead of simply saying you feel she's trying to scapegoat you for the two mislynches? Are you re-reading yet?

Marquis

: Where are you at with the sorting you said you'd give?

[Lycanfire]

jesus christ

[LicketyQuickety]

Well, I think I picked a good day to clean my closet because pretty much NOTHING has happened in this thread today.

Lycan, I see your post. I feel like... IDK what you are doing there.. why are you what looks like shading me when you had me as strong Town not too long ago? How did that read change?

[Ranmaru]

That's a good thing. It helps others catch up. (Like Dan, Marquis, Davsto, etc) I am also re-reading right now.

[Lycanfire]

Well, I think I picked a good day to clean my closet because pretty much NOTHING has happened in this thread today.

Lycan, I see your post. I feel like... IDK what you are doing there.. why are you what looks like shading me when you had me as strong Town not too long ago? How did that read change?

Your unwavering TR of Dunnstral, mixed with random shadeposts on him, wagonomics post v Marquis, while supporting Marquis' lynch, while doing nothing to reconcile your reads. I don't feel like any of this is real. The Postie kill is just extra-skirt asked me if I'm the kill, and I told him Shea was because I'm a fuckwit that is letting other people influence me. The Postie kill has some kind of function (you did it, somebody wants me to think you did it.) I don't actually give a shit about why Postie died, or if you killed her. I'm here to smash this game and pull my team ahead from any tie break scenarios, so you get to deal with angry Lycan for the rest of the day.

Bus CES.

[Ranmaru]

Lycanfire, what did you think of Quick's interactions with me in recent pages? What did you think of his #2288?

[ActionDan]

@Dan – Math wants to hear your team's read and thoughts on tsq

My team has barely commented on this game all told, but as far as shea goes, Katsuki and chess kid have said that he should be policy lynched before lylo (this is beginning of the game) and after the last two lynches Katsuki rhetorically asked if Shea led them. I told them he was town, but it's safe to say if they were in this game they'd probably be gunning for him regardless.

The postie kill probably makes NSG town, not that that wasn't particularly unclear before but when the last post of someone's is "remember if I die, NSG is lockdown," they probably are.

VOTE: Dunnstral

After reading the latest Dunnstral posts I'm more and more confident in a scum flip here. 2258 is the definition of surface level thoughts. If you aren't prepared to come up with your own answers for questions like these then it's a post for the sake of a post. I feel similarly about posts like 1899 and 1992: Both me and TSQ have given our rationales clearly, and at least for me, this wasn't ever a new development; so adding on the "it doesn't make sense" bit there is indicative of not doing the barest of due diligence, and I'd posit simple willful ignorance. I am aware of Dunnstral not being caught up, but the way that post is written betrays an unwillingness to do so to actually attain the context of my read and potentially sort me from that.

I do think it's entirely possible for the vote switch to marquis from Eddie by Dunnstral late D2 to be attributed to the reason given but that scum would be capable of that thinking too and might see an opportunity to position better knowing eddie was doomed and would flip town.

---

Reading more of Marquis' recent posts is like reading gish gallop, 1510 and 1904 are good examples. And they don't have to be; for example despite 1477 being long, it's pretty clear. It leads me to wonder if it's intentional, and I lean yes. looking back at D2 and the back and forth between Eddie and Marquis, 1477 is rather formative, and spearheads Marquis' scum read of Eddie, serving as the foundation. The more I look back, the more I think 1477's individual arguments against Mastina are speculative without sufficient reason behind behind them. What reason is there to believe the reads list was preset to D1? Without access to the Discord, why speculate that Eddie wouldn't be swayed by Mastina "who is well known for being wrong with these [readlists] than being right"?

I don't think that's honest scumhunting. It's a much more reactionary response than it ought to be, and the followup arguments boil down to a version of "Eddie is my cw and I'm town so it makes sense Eddie is scum," (see 1904) which supports that.

[Lycanfire]

Shady as fuck when you said something along the lines of finally working together. I don't think you were attempting to pocket him. If that's wolfy, it's because burying the hatchet in thread ties up loose ends so gymnastics don't need to be used to suddenly explain why teammates that shouldn't know that they're teammates are working together for no good reason. 2288 isn't an attempt to pocket you, because you already know your self-meta and that shouldn't convince you of anything.

Here's what I can do: After you give your case on Gamma, I can explain my Gamma Town Read, and link you to the games I have played with him. That's it. When I reference his meta, I'm talking about games I have played with him. (Hint: I've already referenced two of them)

Did you read the games you asked for, LQ? What did you gain from reading those games?

Nope. It's dependent on you giving your read (and most importantly why) first.

This is apprehensive, but you're both spammy and stuck in the thread together. "hey let's throw stuff at each other and see what happens" could be a fun game to play...

I've already answered your meta question, so you have already seen it. #2068

Now explain your Gamma Scum read.

Some kind of gotcha

So that would be the read.

Ran's defense of Gamma is completely unwarranted. He keeps saying it's a meta read, but he has yet to demonstrate how this game is any different that Gamma's other games. The reason I wanted people to look at Gamma's games is to show that Gamma is remarkably good at copying his Town meta. So then for Ran to just give these lame ass "reasons" for a "Meta Read" which isn't even a distinction between his Town and Scum games shows something funny is going on here.

LQ suddenly breaks from the exchange to talk to the town. A lot more calmly than he did day 1 when I had pressed him and suddenly switched between "he" and "you" a good three times in the same paragraph. Calm nerves.

That said, I asked Ran for his meta read on Gamma, and hopefully people see that Ran's meta read of Gamma is BS.

some kind of opposite of gotcha, no idea why this post is even made

[...] a lot of floundering

Like I said, I'll show you what I mean later. I think you are town, and think this is not helping us find actual scum. You are just being distracting right now. Reason for not casing Gamma as town: I didn't need to. I've already explained the gist. If you really need me to explain (which you have already asked questions about, and I have said I will get back to you on that) I shall. Your case isn't really a case. Also, don't spam. You are being anti-town.

This post puts a lot of attention on LQ when someone like Davsto or even Shea might jump on this.

I don't hide that I have misgivings towards you based on associations with LQ. I do think Dan would be a more likely third. Marquis is never scum on an LQ-CES team, because wolves like LQ don't talk to wolves like Marquis. I don't think scum LQ misses scum Dunnstral's vote swap D2 either. I'd prefer to bag CES first because that should hang the third out neatly and solve the game.

[Lycanfire]

nice of you to check in dan, sorry for the red pm

[ActionDan]

I think Dunn is the most scummy player in the game after eddie.

Let's hear it

Dunnstral/Marquis and I would state Gamma for lack and anyone else, but I don't feel comfortable giving a scum read there.

If I had to recheck my town reads I'd probably start with Postie/Lycan/Davsto. But first I'm looking into Marquis' latest posts and also looking over gamma. (I guess I should also humor mastin by looking over that case, I never did)

Let's hear it: Why am I this lock scum for you. It doesn't make sense.

I kinda pity you

[ActionDan]

@ Lycan, those quotes were still saved and appeared because magic.

[Lycanfire]

you make a big mistake and assuming that scum should care that eddie would flip town. he literally gave us the finger and left leaving everyone to assume he was scum. being on that wagon was good, so

[Lycanfire]

so copy and paste my fucking case on dunnstral add another person that has no conviction in having real reads. the bar is literally that low that you could have quoted me and i would think for at least a moment "hmm maybe they are not a wolf".