Mini 1991: Taking Justice Into Our Own Hands (Town Win)

[Alexcellent]

I kind of want to revisit this based on yesterday's Lexa defending

VOTE: Cedrick

[Luca Blight]

are you also making the point that my earlier interactions with lexa were scum/scum or distancing? because otherwise that seems like kind of an (and i mean no offense by this) ignorant vote – like you're focusing on something relatively minute and ignoring the rest of the context. that's not something i expect from you luca, so it's a little surprising.

Why could your early play not be scum v scum distancing? I often open my scum games by going in hard on my partners - it's a good way to look aggressive without the risk of being scumread back by that player.

Actions speak louder than words; you had the chance to vote for Lexa at a time when her lynch was viable and you didn't, despite scumreading her.

[Alexcellent]

VOTE: awoo

thinking awoo has a good chance to be scum here, i noticed some weird dancing around the lexa wagon from him early game and i'd like to examine that again.

side note – will this finally be a normal game where town is the one that stomps scum?

Eh actually I change my mind for now, I'll sheep this. VOTE: Awoo
I can definitely see the dancing around that Lexa wagon and the GNR/Fissure vote still reeks to me. Still okay with a Cedrick wagon though. Both avoided Lexa, both voted Fissure (who I'm like pretty damn sure is town), both voted Mumble at one point or another. Both seem like a pretty good start for today.

[Alexcellent]

I'm like, somewhere here today

{Fissure; RB; Eddie Cane; HavingFitz}
{Luca Blight; NSG; Papa Zito}
{Cedrick; Awoo; Havo}

[Beefster]

Official Vote Count 2-1

Awoo

(2): northsidegal, Alexcellent

Papa Zito

(1): Fissure

northsidegal

(1): Luca Blight

Not Voting

(7): Awoo, Cedrick, havingfitz, Havo, Eddie Cane, Papa Zito, rb

With 11 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-03-07 22:30:00)

Previous Vote Count | Next Vote Count

BTW, my vote counter is usually smart enough to correctly match acronyms, but it tends to work better on names that are CamelCased or snake_cased. Otherwise it pretty much just checks if it starts with the same letter and has all the other letters in the same order.

[northsidegal]

are you also making the point that my earlier interactions with lexa were scum/scum or distancing? because otherwise that seems like kind of an (and i mean no offense by this) ignorant vote – like you're focusing on something relatively minute and ignoring the rest of the context. that's not something i expect from you luca, so it's a little surprising.

Why could your early play not be scum v scum distancing? I often open my scum games by going in hard on my partners - it's a good way to look aggressive without the risk of being scumread back by that player.

Actions speak louder than words; you had the chance to vote for Lexa at a time when her lynch was viable and you didn't, despite scumreading her.

i'm not going to make the point of why it couldn't be scum/scum, i'm saying that i would expect you to make the specific point that it

is

if you're going to put forward scum!me. obviously i'm biased on this but just on face value i think it's not s/s and i still find you just making the general statement of how scum often open by going against their partners pretty weak when i expect you to be saying something more specific.

also, i distinctly remember giving a reason for unvoting lexa – it was the claim. i can point you to the other game i was talking about where i pushed for a lynch on someone who was a claimed pr if you want, but that game and this game are different in that my read on lexa was definitely not as strong as my read on jay in that other game.

---

alex – could you talk about fitz being so high up on that list for you?

[Luca Blight]

Why should I make the point that your argument with Lexa was s/s when that was irrelevant to the evidence I provided? Your argument in itself could be s/s or s/t - it neither incriminates you nor proves your innocence.

I also remember your reason and indifferent tone to why you unvoted Lexa. You clearly didn't believe Lexa's claim and still scumread Lexa, so why not mention Lexa in or around 1274 when he was a viable lynch and under fire? If you truly didn't want a PR claim lynch you should have made that point, or if you supported a Lexa lynch you should have voted him. Instead, you completely ignored the issue and tried to divert attention onto Awoo.

[Luca Blight]

EBWOP:

1189 is the post that should have been linked.

[Alexcellent]

So looking at that wagon on Lexa at the end of day, pretty good town read on most of the people on it. But these points stand out to me:

You and me both. Your iso is pretty empty though and we're most of the way through the day, who have you found for your town reads?

It hasn’t been easy. I haven’t played with most of this list, usually by now I have a few decent TRs.

Right now I’m -

Town - PapaZ, Eddie
Lean town - Luca, RB, Fitz, Lexa
Null - NSG, Ced, Awoo,
Lean scum - GNR, mumble, Alex

VOTE: lexa

But I’m willing to get on the Mumble/Mulch scumhunting train.

The flip will answer a few questions

I want to see specifically if Mulch is right here.

This feels like maybe a last minute bus vote, considering Havo's townlean on Lexa for most of the day and all.

Alex, I've already talked a fair bit about Awoo. NSG is more of a gut feeling - I liked her opening but I've felt nothing from her recent posts.

I'm willing to give Mulch a pass for today to give him a fair chance.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Lexa

I can see this flipping red.

I've become very confident Zito is Town based on his recent posts - his thought process is pretty much the same as mine.

The only thing that's kept me from voting Mumble has been the fact he seemed fairly assured with his claim (he could always be Mafia Doctor though, which would explain this) and the fact Cane, who I'm town leaning, meta defends him while meta attacking Lexa. However, Cane says Mumble essentially prodges as scum, and apart from his argument with Lexa that is what he's essentially done this game.

I don't trust Fissure's urgency to have Lexa lynched at all - I hoped cutting him some lack would give him a chance to calm down and lay out his thoughts properly, but I was wrong so I'm back here again.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Fissure

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Lexa

L-1

Also the above votes and unvotes from Luca irk me. The 1205 unvote and re-vote onto Fissure comes after PZ unvotes Lexa. So, scum!Luca sees a chance to change wagons and avoid lynching his scum buddy? Then the L-1 Lexa vote in 1239 comes right after Havo's vote. So I dunno. Luca was scum reading Lexa but that shuffle in votes rubs me the wrong way like potential scum trying to find a way out of lynching fellow scum?

PEDIT: @NSG - I agree with a lot of his posts and reads, I read him as town in his interactions with Cedrick and if he's scum then he hard bused Lexa like all day long.

[northsidegal]

Why should I make the point that your argument with Lexa was s/s when that was irrelevant to the evidence I provided? Your argument in itself could be s/s or s/t - it neither incriminates you nor proves your innocence.

By necessity if you're calling me scum then that argument was s/s. If, however, you think that that argument was s/t, then that would by definition make me town. I'm saying that to have a logically coherent and meaningful point as to me being scum, that argument earlier in the game must also be s/s, and thus any argument for me being scum that doesn't take that into account isn't really worth considering.

I also remember your reason and indifferent tone to why you unvoted Lexa. You clearly didn't believe Lexa's claim and still scumread Lexa, so why not mention Lexa in or around 1274 when he was a viable lynch and under fire? If you truly didn't want a PR claim lynch you should have made that point, or if you supported a Lexa lynch you should have voted him. Instead, you completely ignored the issue and tried to divert attention onto Awoo.

honestly? i don't remember. i

can

tell you with confidence just based off the timing and composition that those posts were made when i was busy so i probably just noticed awoo's read on me and wanted to question that.

i think you're being massively disingenuous to say that i tried to "divert attention" onto awoo by asking him that one line question.

[Luca Blight]

You don't have a leg to stand on there, Alex - if I don't switch the momentum back to Lexa in 1158 then I'm pretty sure Lexa doesn't get lynched; she was under hardly any pressure at the time, and most people agreed with leaving the pr claims for D1. You yourself had an hour before said she should be '

revisited tomorrow

' in 1153 which reflects worse on you than any of this does on me.

My L-1 vote came because Mumble's final posts actually seemed seemed pretty town (bad town, but town).

[Luca Blight]

Why should I make the point that your argument with Lexa was s/s when that was irrelevant to the evidence I provided? Your argument in itself could be s/s or s/t - it neither incriminates you nor proves your innocence.

By necessity if you're calling me scum then that argument was s/s. If, however, you think that that argument was s/t, then that would by definition make me town. I'm saying that to have a logically coherent and meaningful point as to me being scum, that argument earlier in the game must also be s/s, and thus any argument for me being scum that doesn't take that into account isn't really worth considering.

You are talking out of your rear end.

Obviously if I'm scumreading you that makes the argument with Lexa and you s/s, but why does that have to be part of my evidence against you? Why can't I make a primary point as to why you're scum without bringing up every possible reason? I haven't even started looking over that argument yet, but in of itself an argument with someone doesn't mean you can't be partners with that player. Actions speak louder than words as I said; you had a chance to vote her when her lynch was viable, and you ignored the matter completely.

I also remember your reason and indifferent tone to why you unvoted Lexa. You clearly didn't believe Lexa's claim and still scumread Lexa, so why not mention Lexa in or around 1274 when he was a viable lynch and under fire? If you truly didn't want a PR claim lynch you should have made that point, or if you supported a Lexa lynch you should have voted him. Instead, you completely ignored the issue and tried to divert attention onto Awoo.

honestly? i don't remember. i

can

tell you with confidence just based off the timing and composition that those posts were made when i was busy so i probably just noticed awoo's read on me and wanted to question that.

i think you're being massively disingenuous to say that i tried to "divert attention" onto awoo by asking him that one line question.

That's the way it seemed to me, but whether or not you were trying to divert attention, the fact remains that you ignored the whole Lexa issue which looks terrible on you now.

[Alexcellent]

You don't have a leg to stand on there, Alex - if I don't switch the momentum back to Lexa in 1158 then I'm pretty sure Lexa doesn't get lynched; she was under hardly any pressure at the time, and most people agreed with leaving the pr claims for D1. You yourself had an hour before said she should be '

revisited tomorrow

' in 1153 which reflects worse on you than any of this does on me.

My L-1 vote came because Mumble's final posts actually seemed seemed pretty town (bad town, but town).

This seems a bit defensive.

Hardly any pressure? So all the other votes on her wagon were just there for decoration until your vote came along and applied the real pressure?
How many people agreed leaving the PRs? I think there was me, Cedrick, who else? (genuine question, I remember people saying it but I can't remember who exactly)

And convenient that you didn't at all mention you finding Mumble's final posts to be pretty town until now, after he's flipped town.

[Luca Blight]

The vote count was this:

Fissure (4): Luca Blight, Awoo, Lexa, Cedrick
Cedrick (4): rb, Alexcellent, Papa Zito, Mumble
Lexa (2): havingfitz, Fissure

Fitz wasn't applying any pressure, the only pressure came from Fissure who had zero credibility and was himself fighting off being lynched.

Most people seemed content to leave the pr's; hence all the unvoting following the claims.

Why is that convenient?

[northsidegal]

Obviously if I'm scumreading you that makes the argument with Lexa and you s/s, but why does that have to be part of my evidence against you? Why can't I make a primary point as to why you're scum without bringing up every possible reason? I haven't even started looking over that argument yet, but in of itself an argument with someone doesn't mean you can't be partners with that player. Actions speak louder than words as I said; you had a chance to vote her when her lynch was viable, and you ignored the matter completely.

and herein lies my main problem with what you're putting forth – you're taking a microscope to examine one reason that would make me scum and willfully choosing to ignore the rest. you

can

make your primary point as to why i'm scum just about one single post – it's just not anything worth taking seriously. i've already given reasons for why i posted 1189 – you continuing to harp singularly on this and trying to say that it looks terrible on me is, in order, ridiculous and laughable.

[Luca Blight]

I'm not ignoring anything - The argument doesn't prove your innocence, hence why I'm not letting that affect my scumread on you until I've seen something in it that suggests otherwise.

Your reasons are pretty shit to be honest and don't change anything.

[Fissure]

Let’s calm down please

[Alexcellent]

The vote count was this:

Fissure (4): Luca Blight, Awoo, Lexa, Cedrick
Cedrick (4): rb, Alexcellent, Papa Zito, Mumble
Lexa (2): havingfitz, Fissure

Fitz wasn't applying any pressure, the only pressure came from Fissure who had zero credibility and was himself fighting off being lynched.

Most people seemed content to leave the pr's; hence all the unvoting following the claims.

Why is that convenient?

When you re-voted her, the vote count was this:

Official Vote Count 1-20

Lexa

(4): havingfitz, Fissure, Mumble, rb

Fissure

(4): Lexa, Cedrick, Luca Blight, Awoo

Cedrick

(1): Alexcellent

Not Voting

(4): Eddie Cane, northsidegal, Havo, Papa Zito

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-02-23 09:00:00)

Previous Vote Count

+ Havo's vote right before yours.

You were the sixth vote on the wagon, hence the L-1.

I think we've gotten our wires crossed. I'm less suspect of your initial Lexa vote and more suspect of your L-1 vote of her. In a vacuum I think your 1158 is probably fine, but in conjunction with your following shift to Fissure, then shift back to Lexa is what I find suspicious.

There were some but I'm not sure that I'd call it "most".

I just find it convenient that I guess you had something of a town read on Mumble towards the end of the day but you're only sharing it now in retrospect after his town flip.
Like it's probably nothing since at that point Lexa was almost definitely the lynchee, but I just find it to be convenient/interesting post flip for you to say that. I don't know if that makes you scum though.

[Luca Blight]

Is that more or less suspicious than NSG ignoring the Lexa issue in her 1189 and 1192 posts, despite scumreading Lexa herself?

[Alexcellent]

Maybe equal. I have to ISO NSG, I don't really have a solid read on her.

[Alexcellent]

Luca how do you feel about Havo's vote on Lexa?

[Luca Blight]

I guess he gets a bit of towncred due to the timing of his vote, enough to give him a pass for today anyway.

I don't really get why he specifically wanted to see if Mulch was right, though? That was a bit of a weird comment.

[Alexcellent]

What makes the timing of his vote townie?

[Cedrick]

Man I thought for sure she was town. Mumble was playing so bad.

Since I have to re-evaluate my reads I’m kind of leaning rb/havo/nsg but still dislike fitz and Zito.

VOTE: havo
This vote pinged me the most. Rb also pinged me.

[Cedrick]

I know I look bad for hard defending Lexa but I genuinely believed she was town. It’s wifom obviously but I’d never hard defend my partner like that.

Havo and rb were trying to avoid voting Lexa imo

I thought I mentioned this yesterday but havo votes me. And does a 180 a couple posts later right after the VC shows Lexa was at l-2

449

Start reading from there. Does his switch to mumble and backing off me look genuine? To me it doesn’t. I believe I pointed this out yesterday also when I was considering I could be wrong on Lexa.