Micro 887: the coaLITion [game over]

[NC 39]

I think the fact that scum decided to kill within the coalition is pretty telling.

[NC 39]

I think the fact that scum decided to kill within the coalition is pretty telling.

Telling of what?

Maybe I’m wrong and it’s WIFOM and RCMA was pretty townie but I nevertheless find it interesting that first scum kill was inside the coalition, don’t you?

[NC 39]

i think it's a significant mistake for anyone to have spangled in their coalition right now and i feel like doing so is literally making the classic mistake that loses towns games: overlooking the silently scummy people coasting by in favor of focusing on the outrageous or distracting things.

I would like to offer an opinion, here — that

maybe

some of the fairly inactive people could be scum here, doing the same thing you’re accusing me of doing; coasting, hoping I get lynched today and generally sheeping you, hiding behind the reasoning of how you’re ‘just that awesomely good’, and then maybe letting you lynch EP, and then shooting you N2 once you’ve served your purpose. Or maybe shooting you N1 if Coffeelad is, actually, scum, or if you change your mind or something, I don’t know.
This is not me saying you’re bad at the game, either RC or nsg — but scum can use people whose reads are pointed in the wrong direction.

This post could have aged worse.

Too tired this afternoon; will go back to actually thinking about the game tomorrow, or in a few hours.

The irony is that I removed both you and Alchemist from the coalition. I really should have stuck with my gutread on him but my reads were bad in Surprise and when someone with a scumhunting rep like RC, says he has a100% BoP on a slot, it’s hard not to doubt yourself.

[NC 39]

Why do you have LUV crossed out?

[NC 39]

Why do you have LUV crossed out?

in the spoiler section?

[NC 39]

Why do you have LUV crossed out?

Hypo example. Is that all you took from the post??

No, why would you assume that?

You’re saying if it’s 1-1, we have 2 lynches to find the scum in the out slots.

I just didn’t think it necessary to repeat that.

[NC 39]

My lack of sleep has caught up to me. I’m sorrry, but I promise, I really promise, that tomorrow I’m going to look critically at your ISO, EP, and I’d like others (GREAT especially) to do similar, and to throw out lynchpools/readslists.

I agree with lynching inside coalition today but since I’m strongly tr you, if scum is 1v1, which makes the most sense, it logically would have to be either Hectic or Great as the buddy.

But I think we will probably get a better idea on that, once we actually start lynching from inside the coalition. So unless anyone is claiming either a 100% BoP on either Hectic or GREAT, we should focus our energies on that.

[NC 39]

@NC you haven't mentioned your read of Spangled since the ~500s, so a strong TR on him came as a bit of surprise. Can you give us an updated reads list?

I’m kind of starting to be slightly concerned that you seem to be continually misinterpreting my posts. (And, not to beat a dead horse but it isn’t even the first time this game.) Why is that? First, I ask why LUV was crossed out in the spoiler section of your analysis and you immediately jump to, that was all I got out of it. Now, for some inexplicable reason my tr on Spangled according to you, seems to be coming out of nowhere?

When we were deciding on the coalitions, I made it extremely clear I wanted both Alchemist and Spangled in it. Do an ISO check if you dispute this.

And I would really like to seriously know what is the point of my making a readslist, when I have been making that beyond abundantly clear from gamestate to the present?

It’s almost like you’re not even reading my posts. I said: A) I it’s (most likely) 1v1: then scum outside coalition logically probably would have to be between Hectic and GREAT, because if I am seriously so off about Spangled, he’d deserve to win anyway but I really don’t believe I am.

B) Inside coalition: still not impressed with LUV but Gamma’s efforting more. I initially hardtown read you but I’ve been less and less sure when you keep misconstruing what I’ve been posting. And now you ask me for a readslist, when I’ve been practically vomiting my reads entire game? That’s actually a first for me. Never before has this been requested of me, when I’ve been blatantly clearly making reads all game.

For you to suggest my hard tr of Spangled just came out of the blue is completely ridiculous. Are you just being lazy or oblivious town here or I don’t know. I’m still leaning LUV/Gamma for the reason for coalition fail but this really isn’t helping my confidence in you.

[NC 39]

Thinking for a little bit my early sense is it means scum might be in some of the middling reads outside the coalition? I recall Hectic being rather SR, Spangled was back and forth, and YAG I think was on the table for some but not really strong as anything. I think YAG is a decent push, Spangled a little less. There's also a question of who they can be scum with. I'll probably lynch in the coalition today but I'll use this logic to decide whom.

With RC being so wrong about Alchemist, it’s only strengthened my already strong tr on Spangled. Had Alchemist actually flipped scum, I would be a lot more likely to reconsider that slot but I’m going to go with my gut, like I wish I had done with Alchemist and rn, my gut is telling me he’s probably town and only way I’d even consider Spangled attp is if we get to LYLO and Hectic and GREAT have both flipped town.

If anyone thinks I’m not seeing something wrt to Spangled, let me know but I feel pretty good about this read.

Remember SC 2, I had Taly as a hard gut townlock and therefore also tr Creature because of it? Nobody listened to me because I couldn’t explain it but I just knew, like I knew Maria was 99.9999% flipping town in DnD. Unfortunately, I couldn’t get anyone to listen to me because I suck at the whole charisma thing. And I unfortunately tend to doubt myself when extremely confident players like RC are 100% convinced of their reads. I do sometimes have bad reads but rarely when they’re gutbased. I’m still mad at myself that I ignored my strong town gutread on Alchemist. I’m not making that mistake again, especially not in this game.

[NC 39]

HURT: ALL
HEAL: Hectic, NC 39, Espresso, LUV, RCMA
will sub myself out for Gamma if required

What are you doing?

Why not

Alchemist or

Spangled?

@Espresso

Once again: @Espresso. Is RC’s selective amnesia catching or what?

Yes, you’re probably going to think I reacted strongly but I tend to get somewhat irritated when It’s clear to me I’ve made something blatantly obvious and continue to be questioned on it.

[NC 39]

Prodding LUV and YOUAREGREAT

This is really getting super annoying. If either of you guys are town here, your being afk so often is super antitown. Like why did you guys even sign up for this? It’s getting beyond ridiculous that Sky has to continue to prod the two of you repeatedly.

[NC 39]

I think the fact that scum decided to kill within the coalition is pretty telling.

Telling of what?

Maybe I’m wrong and it’s WIFOM and RCMA was pretty townie but I nevertheless find it interesting that first scum kill was inside the coalition, don’t you?

Yes. I find it very interesting because RCMA was a sub-optimal kill target imo.

Well, I never got this post. Wasn’t almost everyone tr that slot?

[NC 39]

Spoiler:

@NC you haven't mentioned your read of Spangled since the ~500s, so a strong TR on him came as a bit of surprise. Can you give us an updated reads list?

HURT: ALL
HEAL: Hectic, NC 39, Espresso, LUV, RCMA
will sub myself out for Gamma if required

What are you doing?

Why not

Alchemist or

Spangled?

@Espresso

Once again: @Espresso. Is RC’s selective amnesia catching or what?

Yes, you’re probably going to think I reacted strongly but I tend to get somewhat irritated when It’s clear to me I’ve made something blatantly obvious and continue to be questioned on it.

I do think you're reacting strongly, but that's consistent with before, so I'm not reading into it.

The post you quoted is from 650ish + the post by me said 500ish. It's not super far off considering we're in the thousands now. Your "@Espresso" in the 800s was related to your Alchemist read, so it's reasonable to assume you weren't quoting it to show me your Spangled read.

All that to show it's reasonable that I didn't misinterpret your posts. You ended up giving your updated reads, so I'm happy either way.

True but I still think you’re missing the point that you were wrong that my current Spangled tr came out of nowhere. That’s why I posted this.

[NC 39]

Thinking for a little bit my early sense is it means scum might be in some of the middling reads outside the coalition? I recall Hectic being rather SR, Spangled was back and forth, and YAG I think was on the table for some but not really strong as anything. I think YAG is a decent push, Spangled a little less. There's also a question of who they can be scum with. I'll probably lynch in the coalition today but I'll use this logic to decide whom.

With RC being so wrong about Alchemist, it’s only strengthened my already strong tr on Spangled. Had Alchemist actually flipped scum, I would be a lot more likely to reconsider that slot but I’m going to go with my gut, like I wish I had done with Alchemist and rn, my gut is telling me he’s probably town and only way I’d even consider Spangled attp is if we get to LYLO and Hectic and GREAT have both flipped town.

If anyone thinks I’m not seeing something wrt to Spangled, let me know but I feel pretty good about this read.

Remember SC 2, I had Taly as a hard gut townlock and therefore also tr Creature because of it? Nobody listened to me because I couldn’t explain it but I just knew, like I knew Maria was 99.9999% flipping town in DnD. Unfortunately, I couldn’t get anyone to listen to me because I suck at the whole charisma thing. And I unfortunately tend to doubt myself when extremely confident players like RC are 100% convinced of their reads. I do sometimes have bad reads but rarely when they’re gutbased. I’m still mad at myself that I ignored my strong town gutread on Alchemist. I’m not making that mistake again, especially not in this game.

I'm with you on Spangled being hard town at the beginning, but I'm not as confident in him now. I'm feel good about you being town, so can you work with me by engaging in the following:

Assume for a moment that you're in my pov and you know you're town. Do Spangled's posts on you (read:EP) look like scum positioning or town game solving?

I'm pretty convinced he's scum who's been slowly trying to dial back his townread on me to open up mislynch targets

, but I'd like another opinion.

POV? I think you mean POE? Considering he’s not in coalition, why would he do this unless you think he’s protecting his buddy?

Your post somewhat concerns me because we have had only one flip inside the coalition, so shouldn’t he be re-evaluating his reads?

Do you view that as him pushing you? I mean he even disputed LUV’s read on you.

[NC 39]

All I have so far is EP’s thoughts on the night kill feel super fake to me.

I didn’t really feel that; what makes you say that?

@Espresso, how are you viewing this as him lining up “mislynches”?

[NC 39]

Spoiler:

I’ll probably revisit these thoughts and I

need

people to talk to me about them, but for now, here they are. Still not so sure what my read is; I need people to talk to me. I need it so much you would not believe; sorting EP properly will be critical to win this

Happy to oblige. My comments will be in this colour

PROMISED THOUGHTS ON EP
Early game: good; stuff like 41 and 74 and 130 and 139.
Lots of it... seems very surface level? But early game that’s all you can do, really.

I actually thought the Hectic thing was a decent catch. I don't think many others were in a position to make that observation.

Lots of questions.

Haha, I do what I can.

370: I like the reconsideration but it’s kind of when other people were starting to re-townread me I think, so ??

Tone still a bit weird, but if no one else is seeing that it’s probably not worth anything...?

This was killing me so much that I had to make a second post about it, lol. I didn't even read the second half of the sentence though, so perhaps my tone post is a little overboard

Uh... progression on Gamma is... almost nonexistent? Despite voting them near EoD1. I don’t like how it happens; it’s a consensus that’s built and he just accepts it as status quo; no apparent thought process just ‘others have called this person maybe-not-town; that seems like a good lynch to make’. I don’t like it.

I can't remember the context of my Gamma read, but I'm willing to bet it's because of his meta. Remind me later if this is still bugging you + I'll go back and look at it

682 is weird; it amounts to — ‘two people who are low in coalition, and getting a flip from this one, the lower one will help me make another read...’ just... what?

This is an unfair categorization of what I said. I discussed this at length with NC, so I welcome you to read through that to fully understand the point I was making. In sum, I was seeing a potential scum pairing between NC and LUV + the result of the LUV lynch would well sort that. Also worth noting that NC was one of my top people in the coalition.

Scum pairings post (777) is weird; I find it strange that there are only 3 likely pairings kind of?

I almost regret making this post because of how many times people have misinterpreted the point. Read the first sentence of 777. It wasn't meant to be a complete pairings post + shouldn't be treated as such. Question for you -- what pairings would you add or remove? NC added a few near the end of D1.

He also puts a lot of weight on ‘scum will want to make sure it’s 1-in-1-out’; I’m really not sure that scum were explicitly aiming for that; there’s all kinds of WIFOM-traps to fall into there and so I think that a good deal of this analysis is worthless.

Scum should ABSOLUTELY be playing to 1-in/1-out. Assuming they weren't trying to do this is assuming they either don't understand the investigative value of coalition mechanic or they are incompetent. The result is perhaps a bit WIFOMy, but that's no reason to discount their goal of getting 1in/1out.

Maybe argument with RC is +townpoints but... I can see that as fakeable, probably?

Definitely fakeable... but you better believe scum!me appeases RC then just NKs him immediately. (Looking at LUV here)

Uh... I hold by my statement that you’ve dropped off in content, if not in tone; early game there was lots of good stuff going on but lately... mostly by-and-large pointless arguments, honestly.

But you said my early game was surface-level, albeit active. If I've dropped off from early game, do you mean that I haven't maintained the surface-level comments or that I've dropped even below that?
By arguments, I believe you're referring to the one with RCMA and NC. I agree that the first may have been pointless, but I believe the second (and @NC, correct me if I'm wrong) helped NC and I sort our respective townreads of one another.

[...]

I can’t read this on MafSilver

.

Please use a darker font, tia.

[NC 39]

VLA For like 2 weeks, just got a concussion yesterday and need to do a brain break which includes reduced screentime

I hope you’re alright. You should probably see a doctor. Concussions are very serious matters.

[NC 39]

VLA For like 2 weeks, just got a concussion yesterday and need to do a brain break which includes reduced screentime

I hope you’re alright. You should probably see a doctor. Concussions are very serious matters.

Have you had a doctor check you out? Your health of course, should always come before any game.

[NC 39]

VLA For like 2 weeks, just got a concussion yesterday and need to do a brain break which includes reduced screentime

I hope you’re alright. You should probably see a doctor. Concussions are very serious matters.

Have you had a doctor check you out? Your health of course, should always come before any game.

I went to the hospital last night, I have numerous injuries but the concussion is relevant to my VLA

Holy shit! Well, you should take it easy then. I’m sure Sky will cut you some slack. Sky is the best. <3

[NC 39]

Oh okay, usually you say fmpov, I think that’s why I got confused.

Well, I always tend to be suspicious of anyone I perceive might be pushing me but do you really think that’s what he’s doing here?

His reaction to LUV would suggest otherwise.

[NC 39]

Spoiler: EP’s RESPONSE TO MY THOUGHTS ON HIM

I’ll probably revisit these thoughts and I

need

people to talk to me about them, but for now, here they are. Still not so sure what my read is; I need people to talk to me. I need it so much you would not believe; sorting EP properly will be critical to win this

Happy to oblige. My comments will be in this colour

PROMISED THOUGHTS ON EP
Early game: good; stuff like 41 and 74 and 130 and 139.
Lots of it... seems very surface level? But early game that’s all you can do, really.

I actually thought the Hectic thing was a decent catch. I don't think many others were in a position to make that observation.

Lots of questions.

Haha, I do what I can.

370: I like the reconsideration but it’s kind of when other people were starting to re-townread me I think, so ??

Tone still a bit weird, but if no one else is seeing that it’s probably not worth anything...?

This was killing me so much that I had to make a second post about it, lol. I didn't even read the second half of the sentence though, so perhaps my tone post is a little overboard

Uh... progression on Gamma is... almost nonexistent? Despite voting them near EoD1. I don’t like how it happens; it’s a consensus that’s built and he just accepts it as status quo; no apparent thought process just ‘others have called this person maybe-not-town; that seems like a good lynch to make’. I don’t like it.

I can't remember the context of my Gamma read, but I'm willing to bet it's because of his meta. Remind me later if this is still bugging you + I'll go back and look at it

682 is weird; it amounts to — ‘two people who are low in coalition, and getting a flip from this one, the lower one will help me make another read...’ just... what?

This is an unfair categorization of what I said. I discussed this at length with NC, so I welcome you to read through that to fully understand the point I was making. In sum, I was seeing a potential scum pairing between NC and LUV + the result of the LUV lynch would well sort that. Also worth noting that NC was one of my top people in the coalition.

Scum pairings post (777) is weird; I find it strange that there are only 3 likely pairings kind of?

I almost regret making this post because of how many times people have misinterpreted the point. Read the first sentence of 777. It wasn't meant to be a complete pairings post + shouldn't be treated as such. Question for you -- what pairings would you add or remove? NC added a few near the end of D1.

He also puts a lot of weight on ‘scum will want to make sure it’s 1-in-1-out’; I’m really not sure that scum were explicitly aiming for that; there’s all kinds of WIFOM-traps to fall into there and so I think that a good deal of this analysis is worthless.

Scum should ABSOLUTELY be playing to 1-in/1-out. Assuming they weren't trying to do this is assuming they either don't understand the investigative value of coalition mechanic or they are incompetent. The result is perhaps a bit WIFOMy, but that's no reason to discount their goal of getting 1in/1out.

Maybe argument with RC is +townpoints but... I can see that as fakeable, probably?

Definitely fakeable... but you better believe scum!me appeases RC then just NKs him immediately. (Looking at LUV here)

Uh... I hold by my statement that you’ve dropped off in content, if not in tone; early game there was lots of good stuff going on but lately... mostly by-and-large pointless arguments, honestly.

But you said my early game was surface-level, albeit active. If I've dropped off from early game, do you mean that I haven't maintained the surface-level comments or that I've dropped even below that?
By arguments, I believe you're referring to the one with RCMA and NC. I agree that the first may have been pointless, but I believe the second (and @NC, correct me if I'm wrong) helped NC and I sort our respective townreads of one another.

[...]

@EP
My biggest problem with the 1-in-1-out thing is this: the only investigational value the coalition holds assumes 1-in-1-out; if both are in a lot of that investigational value is gone. If I was scum playing this game, I don’t think I’d mind whether we were 1-in or 2-in, so long as someone was. Because as soon as we’ve lynched one scum in the coalition, if we assume 1-1 and turn away from lynching in-coalition (especially if partner busses well) then we might easily miss scum if it’s 2-0. Unless there is more investigational value regardless of where scum are/aimed to go for...?

Also, I think we have different expectations of content. Actually, reading my ISO, I’m definitely not imposing the standards I’m imposing on you here on me. And not all of that early stuff was surface level; that was tired-brain-thinking; the thoughts on Hectic are not surface level, for example.

Also, as regards the LUV thing... I still find it strange there was no case there; an info-lynch — which was what, in that post, you were characterising it as, at least to me — is just not good for town. Mostly I want to know — did you think LUV was scum, at that point?
Because

that

would be a reason to lynch him.

I did not realise that you and NC were better sorting each other by that. To me it did not help, but if it helped you two, fair enough.

As to the scum pairings... it was unfair of me to assume it was completed; I see now rereading that you even said that it was not complete. As to actual pairings... I don’t see any reason to assume 1-in-1-out, so I don’t know. Might trying re-reading those sections to get a sense of how it all played out again, but I think pre-scumflip, trying to get assocs like this will be very difficult.

I would like you to revisit your small-push on Gamma; the way in which it happened it is still bugging me.

And as to the point about the tone — noted.

@NC 39
Would it be too much to ask for your full, detailed read on EP?

I will do my level best to comment on this but I already asked him to redo it in darker font. It isn’t showing up for me.

It’s s really frustrating to me that the two players most strongly sr Espresso are pretty much lurksacks and GREAT hasn’t even shown up yet.

[NC 39]

Spoiler:

quote="In post 1069, EspressoPatronum"]

Spoiler:

@NC you haven't mentioned your read of Spangled since the ~500s, so a strong TR on him came as a bit of surprise. Can you give us an updated reads list?

HURT: ALL
HEAL: Hectic, NC 39, Espresso, LUV, RCMA
will sub myself out for Gamma if required

What are you doing?

Why not

Alchemist or

Spangled?

@Espresso

Once again: @Espresso. Is RC’s selective amnesia catching or what?

Yes, you’re probably going to think I reacted strongly but I tend to get somewhat irritated when It’s clear to me I’ve made something blatantly obvious and continue to be questioned on it.

I do think you're reacting strongly, but that's consistent with before, so I'm not reading into it.

The post you quoted is from 650ish + the post by me said 500ish. It's not super far off considering we're in the thousands now. Your "@Espresso" in the 800s was related to your Alchemist read, so it's reasonable to assume you weren't quoting it to show me your Spangled read.

All that to show it's reasonable that I didn't misinterpret your posts. You ended up giving your updated reads, so I'm happy either way.

True but I still think you’re missing the point that you were wrong that my current Spangled tr came out of nowhere. That’s why I posted this.

I worry that we're about to descend into semantics again, but I'll go for it anyway.

I did not say your townread of Spangled came out of nowhere. I said your

strong

townread of Spangled came as a surprise bcz you hadn't mentioned it in ~500 posts.

That is me acknowledging you made the read (i.e. that it wasn't out of nowhere), but that a

strong

TR is surprising given the lack of

recent

mention.[/quote]

Have I said anything to indicate my read on him had changed since then? If not, then why do you think my not mentioning a read that hasn’t changed, is even worth commenting on? I only comment now, because prior to Alchemist flip, I had some low level paranoia but now knowing that RC was wrong on Alchemist, makes me think he was also wrong on Spangled. That’s pretty much the only reason I mentioned it, because RC had me questioning everything briefly.

[NC 39]

Spoiler: EP’s RESPONSE TO MY THOUGHTS ON HIM

I’ll probably revisit these thoughts and I

need

people to talk to me about them, but for now, here they are. Still not so sure what my read is; I need people to talk to me. I need it so much you would not believe; sorting EP properly will be critical to win this

Happy to oblige. My comments will be in this colour

PROMISED THOUGHTS ON EP
Early game: good; stuff like 41 and 74 and 130 and 139.
Lots of it... seems very surface level? But early game that’s all you can do, really.

I actually thought the Hectic thing was a decent catch. I don't think many others were in a position to make that observation.

Lots of questions.

Haha, I do what I can.

370: I like the reconsideration but it’s kind of when other people were starting to re-townread me I think, so ??

Tone still a bit weird, but if no one else is seeing that it’s probably not worth anything...?

This was killing me so much that I had to make a second post about it, lol. I didn't even read the second half of the sentence though, so perhaps my tone post is a little overboard

Uh... progression on Gamma is... almost nonexistent? Despite voting them near EoD1. I don’t like how it happens; it’s a consensus that’s built and he just accepts it as status quo; no apparent thought process just ‘others have called this person maybe-not-town; that seems like a good lynch to make’. I don’t like it.

I can't remember the context of my Gamma read, but I'm willing to bet it's because of his meta. Remind me later if this is still bugging you + I'll go back and look at it

682 is weird; it amounts to — ‘two people who are low in coalition, and getting a flip from this one, the lower one will help me make another read...’ just... what?

This is an unfair categorization of what I said. I discussed this at length with NC, so I welcome you to read through that to fully understand the point I was making. In sum, I was seeing a potential scum pairing between NC and LUV + the result of the LUV lynch would well sort that. Also worth noting that NC was one of my top people in the coalition.

Scum pairings post (777) is weird; I find it strange that there are only 3 likely pairings kind of?

I almost regret making this post because of how many times people have misinterpreted the point. Read the first sentence of 777. It wasn't meant to be a complete pairings post + shouldn't be treated as such. Question for you -- what pairings would you add or remove? NC added a few near the end of D1.

He also puts a lot of weight on ‘scum will want to make sure it’s 1-in-1-out’; I’m really not sure that scum were explicitly aiming for that; there’s all kinds of WIFOM-traps to fall into there and so I think that a good deal of this analysis is worthless.

Scum should ABSOLUTELY be playing to 1-in/1-out. Assuming they weren't trying to do this is assuming they either don't understand the investigative value of coalition mechanic or they are incompetent. The result is perhaps a bit WIFOMy, but that's no reason to discount their goal of getting 1in/1out.

Maybe argument with RC is +townpoints but... I can see that as fakeable, probably?

Definitely fakeable... but you better believe scum!me appeases RC then just NKs him immediately. (Looking at LUV here)

Uh... I hold by my statement that you’ve dropped off in content, if not in tone; early game there was lots of good stuff going on but lately... mostly by-and-large pointless arguments, honestly.

But you said my early game was surface-level, albeit active. If I've dropped off from early game, do you mean that I haven't maintained the surface-level comments or that I've dropped even below that?
By arguments, I believe you're referring to the one with RCMA and NC. I agree that the first may have been pointless, but I believe the second (and @NC, correct me if I'm wrong) helped NC and I sort our respective townreads of one another.

[...]

@EP
My biggest problem with the 1-in-1-out thing is this: the only investigational value the coalition holds assumes 1-in-1-out; if both are in a lot of that investigational value is gone. If I was scum playing this game, I don’t think I’d mind whether we were 1-in or 2-in, so long as someone was. Because as soon as we’ve lynched one scum in the coalition, if we assume 1-1 and turn away from lynching in-coalition (especially if partner busses well) then we might easily miss scum if it’s 2-0. Unless there is more investigational value regardless of where scum are/aimed to go for...?

Also, I think we have different expectations of content. Actually, reading my ISO, I’m definitely not imposing the standards I’m imposing on you here on me. And not all of that early stuff was surface level; that was tired-brain-thinking; the thoughts on Hectic are not surface level, for example.

Also, as regards the LUV thing... I still find it strange there was no case there; an info-lynch — which was what, in that post, you were characterising it as, at least to me — is just not good for town. Mostly I want to know — did you think LUV was scum, at that point?
Because

that

would be a reason to lynch him.

I did not realise that you and NC were better sorting each other by that. To me it did not help, but if it helped you two, fair enough.

As to the scum pairings... it was unfair of me to assume it was completed; I see now rereading that you even said that it was not complete. As to actual pairings... I don’t see any reason to assume 1-in-1-out, so I don’t know. Might trying re-reading those sections to get a sense of how it all played out again, but I think pre-scumflip, trying to get assocs like this will be very difficult.

I would like you to revisit your small-push on Gamma; the way in which it happened it is still bugging me.

And as to the point about the tone — noted.

@NC 39
Would it be too much to ask for your full, detailed read on EP?

I will do my level best to comment on this but I already asked him to redo it in darker font. It isn’t showing up for me.

It’s s really frustrating to me that the two players most strongly sr Espresso are pretty much lurksacks and GREAT hasn’t even shown up yet.

As for this post, I’m having a bit of trouble understanding exactly what you mean. While scum could of course just be doing WIFOM, I can definitely see merit in trying to gage possible info from that.

What “small push” on Gamma”? I must have missed it?

I don’t know if we are really better at sorting each other. We are still not in sync, I think.

[NC 39]

@NC
1. I use dark mode, so the green is easy to read. If you're having trouble with it, try highlighting all of it. I'll use a more neutral colour in the future.

2. You're right about that one Spangled quote. I might be wrong + he may not be positioning on me. I'll reconsider his ISO.

3. I just assume reads change over time. If I don't hear about one in a long time, I assume it isn't the same. Asking about it ensures scum can't be complacent and ride off of strong early reads.

I tried that. Can you please redo it? I can obviously switch my settings to mafblack to read it but then I have to switch back to mafsilver to respond and by that time, I’ve largely forgotten what I wanted to say.

[NC 39]

Seeking a replacement for YOUAREGREAT .

gobbledygook replaces YOUAREGREAT .

If you promise not to lurk, you’ll be greater than GREAT.

[NC 39]

@Spangled, does Gamma feel like he did in CK9++?

@Gamma, does Spangled feel like he did in CK9++?

@EP, tl;dr me your scumread on LUV

@NC39, why did you guys kill outside of the coalition yesterday?

@everyone, what were RCMA's reads at the time of their death?

Will get to this later tonight.

RC told me he had 100% BoP on Alchemist and this was his scumgame, pretty much.
That’s my reasoning, I can’t speak for anyone else.

[NC 39]

@Spangled, does Gamma feel like he did in CK9++?

@Gamma, does Spangled feel like he did in CK9++?

@EP, tl;dr me your scumread on LUV

@NC39, why did you guys kill outside of the coalition yesterday?

@everyone, what were RCMA's reads at the time of their death?

Will get to this later tonight.

Cool cool! It’s strange, but the ways in which we interacted with each other in CK9++ will in no way help either of us sort each other; you were SK and I can base very little on that; you too had to scumhunt, and I was an IC that game; my IC game is hopefully

very

different to my regular town game or my scum game.

Uh... as to Gamma... yes, the tone has been different. Nonchalant, quite relaxed — even lazy, perhaps. I’m not quite sure what to make of it, because I’ve done a wee bit of meta on them and both their town and scum game seem quite different to how they’re playing this game. It is annoying.

RCMA’s reads... goodness knows. They seemed to have given up their early scumread of me, but they never clearly indicated that. They pushed for the death of Alchemist, although a bit before that they seemed to indicate that at least 1 of EP/NC were scum... but didn’t mention it after they started going for Alch...? That’s all I can remember, sorry; I’d read this whole game with an eye to RCMA’s general accuracy throughout it.

He also thought that Alchemist and Gamma were buddies and he eventually changed his read on me when I questioned him about the BoP.

[NC 39]

MafBlack is better for your eyes anyway. You should be thinking of your long term health. I would know. I'm a doctor.

Spoiler:

I don’t want to derail the thread but how is mafblack better for my health than mafsilver?

Please answer in spoiler= tags.

Dr. Worm is my Opthamologist.

[NC 39]

Why do you want to kill inside the coalition today as opposed to outside?

You disagree with that? Well because we know with 100% certainty that at least one scum in coalition, otherwise this game would be over. Do you have spicier reads outside the coalition that you think ought to be sorted first?

[NC 39]

Also, what is your opinion of your predecessor’s reads?

[NC 39]

Why do you want to kill inside the coalition today as opposed to outside?

You disagree with that? Well because we know with 100% certainty that at least one scum in coalition, otherwise this game would be over. Do you have spicier reads outside the coalition that you think ought to be sorted first?

No, I think the play was always go inside the coalition to find scum. My reasoning is this:

If coalition fails, AT LEAST 1 scum inside
If coalition fails, MAYBE 1 scum outside

It is entirely possible that both scum are inside the coalition and given that is a possibility, it is always better to hunt inside the coalition. From any individual coalition-townie's perspective they have a 25% OR GREATER chance of hitting scum by going inside the coalition. I was very surprised to see that RCMA wanted to go outside the coalition. I was also very surprised that they died the first night, but they were universally townread it seems.

Just so we are clear - we are going to be hunting inside the coalition. I just wanted to explain why it is always the move if any of you play this game type moving forward.

Spoiler: health

I remember reading a study (dont know if it was peer reviewed) that dark screens emit less blue light and also cause less overall strain to the eye. Both of these things are good for the overall health of the eye.

Yeah, well until we find one, that makes the most sense. However, the buddy is statistically more likely to be outside, so once we find one, probably shift to that.

Why are you surprised that RCMA were the NK? You’re the 2nd person who’s said this.

Spoiler:

But I have ADD and mafblack makes me sleepy. Discord is an exception because there’s not a lot of reading to do.

[NC 39]

Also, what is your opinion of your predecessor’s reads?

You see, this an interesting question. I have played this game for a while now (on another site), but I had never considered reading my predecessor's thoughts. It's funny. I just do not do it. It might be an ego thing, but I do not like getting tainted by another player's thoughts. Plus, I think replacements are so hard to deal with as scum if they don't move in the same way that their predecessor did. I like to do crazy things to keep momentum on my side.

That’s usually the first thing I do, when I think about replacing into a game. On MU, it’s irrelevant but on here, I like to first skim their ISO to see if I can determine their alignment. I found out the hard way, you never want to replace into a scumslot, at least I don’t.

[NC 39]

Also, what is your opinion of your predecessor’s reads?

You see, this an interesting question. I have played this game for a while now (on another site), but I had never considered reading my predecessor's thoughts. It's funny. I just do not do it. It might be an ego thing, but I do not like getting tainted by another player's thoughts. Plus, I think replacements are so hard to deal with as scum if they don't move in the same way that their predecessor did. I like to do crazy things to keep momentum on my side.

That’s usually the first thing I do, when I think about replacing into a game. On MU, it’s irrelevant but on here, I like to first skim their ISO to see if I can determine their alignment. I found out the hard way, you never want to replace into a scumslot, at least I don’t.

Putting a pin this for now.

—-

Why is the partner statistically most likely to be outside? I don’t get the logic. From an individual townie’s point of view in the coalition, they have “equal” chances of hitting scum in side and outside 1/4. In reality though they don’t because there could be 2 inside and 0 outside. So it makes more sense to choose inside.

Because it’s to scum’s advantage to keep one scum outside of it. It’s pretty much suicide to have both scum in there, so is it possible? Sure but likely, not really. I’m not disputing that because we already know one scum caused coalition to fail.

[NC 39]

Also, what is your opinion of your predecessor’s reads?

You see, this an interesting question. I have played this game for a while now (on another site), but I had never considered reading my predecessor's thoughts. It's funny. I just do not do it. It might be an ego thing, but I do not like getting tainted by another player's thoughts. Plus, I think replacements are so hard to deal with as scum if they don't move in the same way that their predecessor did. I like to do crazy things to keep momentum on my side.

That’s usually the first thing I do, when I think about replacing into a game. On MU, it’s irrelevant but on here, I like to first skim their ISO to see if I can determine their alignment. I found out the hard way, you never want to replace into a scumslot, at least I don’t.

Putting a pin this for now.

—-

Why is the partner statistically most likely to be outside? I don’t get the logic. From an individual townie’s point of view in the coalition, they have “equal” chances of hitting scum in side and outside 1/4. In reality though they don’t because there could be 2 inside and 0 outside. So it makes more sense to choose inside.

What post are you responding to? I didn’t talk about the coalition in this post.

[NC 39]

Why do you want to kill inside the coalition today as opposed to outside?

You disagree with that? Well because we know with 100% certainty that at least one scum in coalition, otherwise this game would be over. Do you have spicier reads outside the coalition that you think ought to be sorted first?

No, I think the play was always go inside the coalition to find scum. My reasoning is this:

If coalition fails, AT LEAST 1 scum inside
If coalition fails, MAYBE 1 scum outside

It is entirely possible that both scum are inside the coalition and given that is a possibility, it is always better to hunt inside the coalition. From any individual coalition-townie's perspective they have a 25% OR GREATER chance of hitting scum by going inside the coalition. I was very surprised to see that RCMA wanted to go outside the coalition. I was also very surprised that they died the first night, but they were universally townread it seems.

Just so we are clear - we are going to be hunting inside the coalition. I just wanted to explain why it is always the move if any of you play this game type moving forward.

Spoiler: health

I remember reading a study (dont know if it was peer reviewed) that dark screens emit less blue light and also cause less overall strain to the eye. Both of these things are good for the overall health of the eye.

Okay...
Why are you asking like that if it's your preference?

Cool cool! It’s strange, but the ways in which we interacted with each other in CK9++ will in no way help either of us sort each other; you were SK and I can base very little on that; you too had to scumhunt, and I was an IC that game; my IC game is hopefully very different to my regular town game or my scum game.

Why did you feel the need to mention this stuff specifically?

Because it’s a bit of annoying, running theme this game. Couldn’t sort EP based on tone; stuff’s pinging me but no one else is seeing it, and it’s very mild anyway, and it’s been explained but it kind of keeps annoying me — but I’m going to let it go, I think.
Can’t really sort Gamma based on meta-tone, and now I probably won’t be able to sort you based on meta-tone either, despite having previous experiences with both of you.

@gobbledygook, any reads yet?

[NC 39]

Out of curiosity, when we figure out the scum who caused coalition to fail, would you then want to continue to lynch inside coalition or outside of it?

[NC 39]

Out of curiosity, when we figure out the scum who caused coalition to fail, would you then want to continue to lynch inside coalition or outside of it?

This is a hard question. I think it depends if we hit scum.

That’s precisely what I’m asking you.

[NC 39]

LUV will probably grace us with his presence approximate 12 hours before deadline, unless we lynch before then.

[NC 39]

VC 2.02 (unchanged) Not Voting (7): Hectic, Spangled, NC 39, EspressoPatronum, Gamma Emerald, gobbledygook, Lil Uzi Vert With 7 players alive, it takes 4 to reach a majority. Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-23 19:25:00).

So, we need 4 to lynch. We probably can’t do anything before Hectic comes back. I definitely give Gamma props for still participating despite being injured. He has an admirable play ethic. I wish more players were that dedicated.

[NC 39]

All I have so far is EP’s thoughts on the night kill feel super fake to me.

You can’t just make this post and not elaborate. What about them reads fake to you?

I think limiting the lynch pool solely to those who were in the failed coalition is more likely to lead to a town loss.

What’s the case on Alchemist again?

Yes, that clearly worked out well for us. :/

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

So, why were you voting Espresso over Alchemist yesterday?

[NC 39]

NC39, what would you say is the breakdown of Nancy and Nero posts? 50/50?

Nero has pretty much flaked on me, so all post-coalition posts have been mine.

[NC 39]

Time is limited right now but NC that looks like you’re trying to find a way to vote me without much blowback.

We are just over 2 days away from deadline. Who do you think we should vote for? Espresso? Because you made some post, that you still haven’t explained about his reads being “fake”?

[NC 39]

@LUV, if you’re town here, you need to make a convincing case on whomever. Your play currently is not helping town. Do you agree with that or not?

[NC 39]

VC 2.02 (unchanged) Not Voting (7): Hectic, Spangled, NC 39, EspressoPatronum, Gamma Emerald, gobbledygook, Lil Uzi Vert With 7 players alive, it takes 4 to reach a majority. Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-23 19:25:00).

Do we wait for Hectic?

If LUV doesn’t do something earth shattering to town it up, I’ll probably vote him before EoD.

@Spangled, your thoughts?

[NC 39]

Time is limited right now but NC that looks like you’re trying to find a way to vote me without much blowback.

Spoiler:

All I have so far is EP’s thoughts on the night kill feel super fake to me.

You can’t just make this post and not elaborate. What about them reads fake to you?

I think limiting the lynch pool solely to those who were in the failed coalition is more likely to lead to a town loss.

What’s the case on Alchemist again?

Yes, that clearly worked out well for us. :/

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

So, why were you voting Espresso over Alchemist yesterday?

I asked you A) to explain both your Espresso vote, considering you were pushing Alchemist yesterday and B) to explain what about Espresso’s posts, you find “fake”.

Atp in the game, your vote isn’t getting “blowback” isn’t telling me anything but that you aren’t for some reason, interested in answering my questions.

[NC 39]

What should we do if LUV is town Nancy?

Who would you lynch instead then? We have a little over 2 days until deadline and without LUV’s cooperation, I think we will get a no lynch.

So, if he’s town here, he’s not helping us to get a better read on him, so unless something drastically changes between now and EoD, we’re probably looking at either a LUV lynch or a no lynch. We only get 3 mislynches I think but no lynching isn’t desirable either. :/

So, I don’t know but his play has been the most antitown in the playerlist, now that you’ve repped in but is he bad town or scum? I have no clue.

What do you think we should do? LUV has been playing like this since gamestart and in this particular case, I don’t see an extension changing that.

[NC 39]

@LUV, if you’re actually town here, you really need to answer my questions.

[NC 39]

Your readslist is similar to mine, except I have Spangled higher than Espresso.

Why is there a star besides my name?

[NC 39]

Time is limited right now but NC that looks like you’re trying to find a way to vote me without much blowback.

Just noticed what LUV was actually saying here

Spoiler:

My vote is staying and honestly NC, you should just vote here too.

Why, we still have 2 days and didn’t you just ask me,

What should we do if LUV is town Nancy?

So why are you pushing me to vote now, when I said already I would before deadline.

I am seriously finding your posts extremely confusing.

[NC 39]

I am curious why Spangled was left out of the coalition in the first place. It was weird because he was in and then he was out all of the sudden

RC objected to both him and Alchemist being in it but we know of course now, that he was wrong on at least one of them.

[NC 39]

VC 1.20 Alchemist21 (5): Hectic, Spangled, NC 39, RC most awesomest, EspressoPatronum Lil Uzi Vert (1): Gamma Emerald Hectic (1): YOUAREGREAT EspressoPatronum (1): Lil Uzi Vert Gamma Emerald (1): Alchemist21 Not Voting (0): With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority. Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-14 23:59:59).

I posted this, since you mentioned it but I don’t see how it’s particularly helpful? @LUV

And since you were the first one to bring up Alchemist’s name iirc? You being on Espresso doesn’t really look good.

[NC 39]

So why are you pushing me to vote now, when I said already I would before deadline.

I am seriously finding your posts extremely confusing.

I aim to be confusing! But seriously, waiting until deadline has worked so well for this town already. We should definitely do it a third time.

I am trying to get him to be more clear but his posts just keep confusing me even more.

I did that ISO and he called another player “robotic” in that and I also ISO’d you, since you were his scum partner in that.

and I’m seriously starting to wonder if “we should massclaim” is the default scum opening now.

[NC 39]

Time is limited right now but NC that looks like you’re trying to find a way to vote me without much blowback.

Spoiler:

All I have so far is EP’s thoughts on the night kill feel super fake to me.

You can’t just make this post and not elaborate. What about them reads fake to you?

I think limiting the lynch pool solely to those who were in the failed coalition is more likely to lead to a town loss.

What’s the case on Alchemist again?

Yes, that clearly worked out well for us. :/

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

So, why were you voting Espresso over Alchemist yesterday?

I asked you A) to explain both your Espresso vote, considering you were pushing Alchemist yesterday and B) to explain what about Espresso’s posts, you find “fake”.

Atp in the game, your vote isn’t getting “blowback” isn’t telling me anything but that you aren’t for some reason, interested in answering my questions.

What? I wasn’t pushing Alchemist yesterday? I really don’t get why you’re asking me about EP. I’m pretty sure I made it clear why I scum read him yesterday. Why aren’t you focused on who was on the wagon?

The hint of defeatist attitude in EP’s opening post today feels fake because he didn’t seem at all invested in the consensus Alchemist scum read and it took the threat of a no lynch for him to hammer.

Calling RCMA a potential mislynch and a sub-optimal kill target feels fake because I think we can both agree that no one here is capable of going toe-to-toe with RC in a one-on-one as scum and would much rather do away with him in the night. I feel like EP would be very much aware of this due to how much stock he puts into meta.

I’m not interested because outside of asking me to explain my thoughts on EP’s earlier posts today, they don’t make sense.

I don’t understand how Espresso not being eager to vote Alchemist is scummy, since he already made it clear, he didn’t want to lynch outside of coalition.

That’s assuming EP is familiar with his meta but I didn’t really get the “suboptimal” kill part. I remember he did change his mind on that.

Your posts are super frustrating to me because I don’t know if you are scum trying to give me a migraine or town who is annoyed at me for not being a bloody mindreader!

All I know is we have a little less than two days and nothing you’s said is convincing me to vote Espresso over you.

[NC 39]

Where I’m at rn, is I don’t see a compelling reason to vote anyone else, so it basically LUV or no lynch and it doesn’t look like anyone thinks that’s a good idea.

VOTE: LUV

[NC 39]

Do it for the ‘gram

The what?

[NC 39]

Do it for the ‘gram

The what?

You've never heard that phrase? It means do it for the instagram. Doing something picture worthy so you can post it to instagram.

Oh, I was thinking gram as in gran. lmao

[NC 39]

If LUV is scum I’m gonna be looking real hard at Spangled and Hectic

Don’t you think scum would want to bus in this situation? If LUV is scum, wouldn’t their partner want to be on that wagon?

Or I guess they could just let it happen. I think it’s NAI though. Hectic is V/LA until tomorrow - as annoying as it is and Spangled will probably be on later.

[NC 39]

I’m getting slightly paranoid but I tr everyone else in coalition more than LUV.

[NC 39]

I’m not following @LUV. please explain this to me like I’m 5.

[NC 39]

I’m not following @LUV. please explain this to me like I’m 5.

Can you explain exactly what you think he’s being “defeatest” about?

[NC 39]

UNVOTE:

For now, in case scum hasn’t voted yet, I don’t want to put him at L-1, until either or both Spangled or Hectic weigh in.

[NC 39]

??? If scum hammer him that’s a scumclaim?

That isn’t what I meant. I already said it was NAI. Why don’t you think we should wait for at least one of them to weigh in?

[NC 39]

??? If scum hammer him that’s a scumclaim?

UNVOTE:

For now,

in case

scum hasn’t voted yet, I don’t want to put him at L-1, until either or both Spangled or Hectic weigh in.

What part of “in case” are you interpreting as a “scumclaim”?

Fact: Espresso is in the coalition. You, who have just repped in are the other vote.

I would just rather hear from them, before I put him at L-1.

I’m not holding anything up, I just don’t see why we need to hammer before we’ve heard from either of them. The RCMA kill is leaning me to think one scum outside the wagon. I don’t think it’s Spangled ftr.

[NC 39]

I’m not saying your post was a scumclaim? How did you get that interpretation from my post?

No, you were implying that I thought that

whomever hammers is making one

but that’s not at all what I said. I said, “in case”.

You’re misinterpreting my posts even worse than Espresso and I thought that was a record.

[NC 39]

Have you ever played broken telephone btw?

[NC 39]

Probably right but you’re continually misinterpreting my posts is, I dunno. Should I be freaked out by that or burst into laughter?

But you seriously are misreading most of them. Am I being unclear?

[NC 39]

I’m still confused by the in case post. I am dumb so it might be me. What I read your in case post as “I am unvoting in case scum hasn’t posted yet [implication being they will hammer him if he was L-1] until Spangled or Hectic weigh in.” Is that how it should be read?

If so, I disagree that implication that scum would come in lolhammer. If they did, it would be a scumclaim. Does this all make sense now?

Also, why not wait until Gamma weighed in?

I don’t know whether scum has voted or not and obviously, anyone could be scum, that’s why I said, “in case”.

I wasn’t even thinking about a lolhammer but your response makes way more sense knowing that.

Do you really think Gamma will weigh in? Isn’t he still V/LA with broken bones and a concussion?

[NC 39]

I don’t think it’s Spangled ftr.

Who do you think it is?

I dunno, maybe Hectic? I think I’ll have a much better idea once we actually hit the scum in coalition, because then we can hopefully find clear associatives.

I was sl your slot before you replaced in. I’m feeling a bit better about your slot now.

[NC 39]

Gamma may. I’m not sure though. Concussions aren’t really something to play around with. I think he was in a car accident which is really rough.

Yeah, poor guy, I hope he feels better soon. Mathblade was in a car accident during DnD, he didn’t have a concussion though but the pain killers he was on, really made him loopy.

[NC 39]

@Hectic, I think one scum outside coalition is more likely than 2 scum in. By process of strength of reads, I think it’s least likely to be Spangled and while I was sl GREAT, Gg is either town here or replicating his towngame. I think the flip will make it a lot clearer. I really don’t see you and LUV as partners, so my reads might be off somehow.

[NC 39]

i see, i honestly see it as likely

since we know 1 in 5 in the coalition is scum, the other scum is either in the other 4 in the coalition, or the 4 not in the coaltion, so 50/50 in terms of odds alone, though it's 3/3 now

why do you think 1 scum outside is more likely? because scum are actively trying to keep 1 of them out? i don't think that's as much as a focus as you guys think, especially because of what seems to be meta here

though it's skewed from our perspectives i guess. i like both Spangled and gobbly so i currently think it's 2 in

something like Gamma/Espresso + LUV is possible
even if we follow your logic of scumtrying to keep one of them out, scum!LUV lurks and doesn't contribute much since he expects Gamma/Espresso to be in the coaltion, and he gets unexpectedly added in last minute

I suppose that’s possible. Maybe I’m assuming too much because of RCMA kill but I also recall nsg posting in another coalition game she linked, that that would be suboptimal for scum to do that.

[NC 39]

Nancy honestly I’m not scum here. Don’t you remember Mathblade’s flipless game?

Probably not unless I was in it? Do you have a link?

[NC 39]

Nancy honestly I’m not scum here. Don’t you remember Mathblade’s flipless game?

Probably not unless I was in it? Do you have a link?

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=73966

I was wondering why this didn’t make any sense to me. You’re confusing me with the now I think, retired poster Nancy. I’m Nancy Drew 39 and my join date was January 14, 2018 and this game started in November 2017.

[NC 39]

Lmao wait what

I’m not the same Nancy - the player who was in that game.

[NC 39]

No I get that. My mind is just blown right now.

So when you said in RS that you were looking forward to playing with me, it wasn’t me you were actually referring to. I guess that makes sense since I’d never played with you before.

[NC 39]

VC 2.03 Lil Uzi Vert (2): gobbledygook, EspressoPatronum Not Voting (5): Hectic, Spangled, Gamma Emerald, Lil Uzi Vert, NC 39 With 7 players alive, it takes 4 to reach a majority. Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-23 19:25:00).

This is so frustrating. Once again, LUV isn’t voting. He was voting Espresso but preferred Alchemist and now, he wants Espresso but isn’t voting anyone.

[NC 39]

Nancy honestly I’m not scum here

. Don’t you remember Mathblade’s flipless game?

Still, this kind of thing is more likely to come from town than scum.

I still tr everyone in the coalition over LUV but would LUV make this kind of post as scum?

[NC 39]

It’s a shot in the dark at this point for me. Which is worse, no lynching or using up our second mislynch? Problem is, that I don’t know if LUV is ever going to become more readable. That’s also why I feel better about everyone else in coalition. But what if I’m wrong?

We have a little over a day now and unless someone can make a convincing case for someone other than LUV, I’m either voting them or no lynching.

And I’m extremely unhappy about that. :/

[NC 39]

VC 2.03 Lil Uzi Vert (2): gobbledygook, EspressoPatronum Not Voting (5): Hectic, Spangled, Gamma Emerald, Lil Uzi Vert, NC 39 With 7 players alive, it takes 4 to reach a majority. Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-23 19:25:00).

This is so frustrating. Once again, LUV isn’t voting. He was voting Espresso but preferred Alchemist and now, he wants Espresso but isn’t voting anyone.

Either LUV is scum and all of this makes sense, or LUV is town and he's pretty much throwing the game.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume it's the former. If it's the latter, I definitely don't want him in lylo.

If he’s town, that would be our second mislynch but yeah, he’s not really doing anything to get tr.

[NC 39]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a no lynch is pretty much the same as a mislynch, as it allows the mafia one extra kill at the price of the game going one extra day. We'd be in mylo at an even number.

Considering lynches are our only way to catch scum, I'd even say a no-lynch is worse than a mislynch.

I didn’t really even think of that, I just hate being so unsure.

VOTE: LUV

[NC 39]

I believe there’s scum in EP and Nancy. I don’t know how to articulate it then there pushes are bad and that I’m obvious town here based on my disengagement.

Why? Because I keep encouraging you to be more readable but you refuse? So, I’m scummy for voting you? You’re not even freaking voting!

[NC 39]

What do you think of Hectic?

Probably tr him for not voting, right?

[NC 39]

I’m really getting tired of this @LUV.

You claim Espresso has fake reads, we have like one fucking day until deadline. You’re not voting or trying to convince us on your Espresso read. So, what do you want, to no lynch?

I swear if you actually are town, I will figuratively smack you post-game.

[NC 39]

UNVOTE:

We have a decision to make because it is suboptimal to no lynch and I need a better case to vote someone else.

I give up.

[NC 39]

I’m not trying to convince anybody because I don’t think anything I’ll say will sway you guys to vote him.

I’m not opposed to no lynch but I understand Espresso’s reasoning on that. So where I’m at, I need more to switch my vote to Espresso or anyone else and I still think it’s possible you could be scum paired with a more active partner.

I need a break from this game. Eventhough he was wrong about Alchemist, I really wish RC was still in this game, because then, at least we wouldn’t be in this extremely frustrating situation.

[NC 39]

Why wouldn’t we be in this frustrating situation if RC was alive?

And why would we no Lynch?

Because he would be telling us what to do.

I don’t think we should. LUV keeps saying he’s not scum but Espresso is but I still tr everyone over LUV, so I don’t know what to do.

What I want is to feel even a little bit confident about my vote, which I obviously don’t.

[NC 39]

Which is why I’m so annoyed because I need a case to vote anywhere else than LUV and no one is making one.

I will go with what the majority decides. I don’t want to no lynch but I need a better case on LUV or whomever.

I’ll be checking this thread and thinking on it a bit more.

[NC 39]

@gobbledygook, just to be clear, I 100% agree with Espresso that no lynching is worse than possibly mislynching.

I’m just not convinced on LUV’s Espresso read and he (LUV) is still my weakest read in coalition.

[NC 39]

@Spangled, @Hectic, where are you now?

[NC 39]

Nancy honestly I’m not scum here. Don’t you remember Mathblade’s flipless game?

I believe there’s scum in EP and Nancy. I don’t know how to articulate it then there pushes are bad and that I’m obvious town here based on my disengagement.

I don’t think scum make these posts.

LUV may or may not be scum but I have seen scum make those kind of posts, the first not so much but definitely the second. So, I disagree with you on that in general. The question is does LUV make those kind of posts as scum?

If you tr anyone who makes those kind of posts, you will be wrongly tr some really good players who are experts in replicating their town meta.

[NC 39]

Yeah Gamma not doing anything makes me confident in this vote

Now or earlier because he was just in a car accident? Have you read through his ISO? Do you think it’s a scum ISO?

[NC 39]

I think the thought process is so bonkers/absurd that that’s what makes LUV town. Like he can’t honestly believe he is obvtown if he was scum right?

Nancy, can I interest you in a Gamma vote?

I dunno, I’ve done it as scum to avoid getting lynched. Tell me more about your Gamma case.

[NC 39]

Both.

Yes, I have read through his iso. I don’t like how detailed he was with his early coalition actions. Like he felt extra compelled to list the exact reasons why he was healing/hurting people. I feel like that is out of character for Gamma.

Can you post or link those quotes?

[NC 39]

Not really a case, but I think I prefer him over LUV at the moment.

I’m not opposed to lynching Gamma today, I’m just not as convinced of your LUV tr as you are.

The only thing that stuck out at me was his misrepping me earlier in the game, which Alchemist pointed out but then he owned up to that, so I checked some of his scumgames to see if he’d ever done a 180 like that and couldn’t find an example of it.

Problem is that both slots get mislynched a lot. That’s why it would really help to see those posts and why you sr them.

[NC 39]

Plus I think the team is Hectic/Gamma and Hectic gladly put Gamma in over himself

Well I could definitely see Hectic being buddies with Gamma over LUV, so that’s definitely something to consider.

[NC 39]

[/color]HEAL: Gamma

The Gamma v LUV disagreement looks genuine + Gamma came out of it looking more town.

HEAL: Spangled

Liking Spangled's posting style thus far. I'm not yet certain if the wide coalition read on Spangled is a good or bad thing, but I'm treating it as a good thing for now.

I’ve seen UTRs be scum, but the biggest, most-AI thing is (in my limited experience) why they end up being UTRed. I don’t know how many people here know emps, but he’s been UTRed up until around EoD2 as scum before, mostly due to tone, and a sheer number of posts, most of which were actually pretty contentless, but seemed helpful.
Townreads everyone agrees on win games, though, especially this one.

Also, about the Gamma v LUV thing, I think Gamma came out of it

somewhat

towny, but what did you think about LUV? Did you agree with Gamma on his defensiveness?

I like this question from Spangled
HEAL: Spangled
HEAL: Gamma Emerald as well now that I'm starting my coalition

HEAL: RC most awesomest
I think they're town, but moreover I'm trying to fast track a majority coalition because of the deadline, and this is the most common coalition choice I see rn

HURT: Spangled
I still think he's town but I don't feel so strongly about it that I'd keep him in my coalition when he's probably not going to be in the majority one

Not really a case, but I think I prefer him over LUV at the moment.

I’m not opposed to lynching Gamma today, I’m just not as convinced of your LUV tr as you are.

The only thing that stuck out at me was his misrepping me earlier in the game, which Alchemist pointed out but then he owned up to that, so I checked some of his scumgames to see if he’d ever done a 180 like that and couldn’t find an example of it.

Problem is that both slots get mislynched a lot. That’s why it would really help to see those posts and why you sr them.

See the quoted Gamma posts in this post. I find it odd that Gamma gives a lot of explanation for his heal/hurt votes and then drops it all together. Plus, he has been scumreading LUV all game yet is too afraid to put a vote down there when a coalition fails with LUV in it? That doesn't make sense from my perspective. Feels like fake scumhunting.

If it weren’t for RC pushing Alchemist, LUV would have probably gotten lynched over Alchemist and Gamma was also been in an accident, so I don’t put much stock in him not voting, unless you think he’s making that up or something?

I want to hear from others because you were over eager to lynch LUV earlier, so I don’t know whether to trust this read. I just want to be more confident and I’m still not.

[NC 39]

Hectic, I mainly scumread you because I thought it was odd you didn’t try to include yourself or fight for yourself to be included. The only time you wanted to include yourself was when LUV was out. An individual townie knows that a coalition with themselves included is more likely to succeed than a coalition without themselves in it.

ah right, interesting. i didn't think i could really fight for myself to be included, anything i say is just self-meta/analysis and NAI imo
i actually included myself in the coalition vote late on just in case people changed their minds on me, but i think NC? asked me to replace myself with the popular choice (Gamma or LUV iirc)

where did you get the impression i only wanted to include myself when LUV was out? i always wanted to be included

That is untrue. It was Alchemist and Spangled I wanted over you.

[NC 39]

Spoiler:

[

[/color]HEAL: Gamma

The Gamma v LUV disagreement looks genuine + Gamma came out of it looking more town.

HEAL: Spangled

Liking Spangled's posting style thus far. I'm not yet certain if the wide coalition read on Spangled is a good or bad thing, but I'm treating it as a good thing for now.

I’ve seen UTRs be scum, but the biggest, most-AI thing is (in my limited experience) why they end up being UTRed. I don’t know how many people here know emps, but he’s been UTRed up until around EoD2 as scum before, mostly due to tone, and a sheer number of posts, most of which were actually pretty contentless, but seemed helpful.
Townreads everyone agrees on win games, though, especially this one.

Also, about the Gamma v LUV thing, I think Gamma came out of it

somewhat

towny, but what did you think about LUV? Did you agree with Gamma on his defensiveness?

I like this question from Spangled
HEAL: Spangled
HEAL: Gamma Emerald as well now that I'm starting my coalition

HEAL: RC most awesomest
I think they're town, but moreover I'm trying to fast track a majority coalition because of the deadline, and this is the most common coalition choice I see rn

HURT: Spangled
I still think he's town but I don't feel so strongly about it that I'd keep him in my coalition when he's probably not going to be in the majority one

Not really a case, but I think I prefer him over LUV at the moment.

I’m not opposed to lynching Gamma today, I’m just not as convinced of your LUV tr as you are.

The only thing that stuck out at me was his misrepping me earlier in the game, which Alchemist pointed out but then he owned up to that, so I checked some of his scumgames to see if he’d ever done a 180 like that and couldn’t find an example of it.

Problem is that both slots get mislynched a lot. That’s why it would really help to see those posts and why you sr them.

See the quoted Gamma posts in this post. I find it odd that Gamma gives a lot of explanation for his heal/hurt votes and then drops it all together. Plus, he has been scumreading LUV all game yet is too afraid to put a vote down there when a coalition fails with LUV in it? That doesn't make sense from my perspective. Feels like fake scumhunting.

If it weren’t for RC pushing Alchemist, LUV would have probably gotten lynched over Alchemist and Gamma was also been in an accident, so I don’t put much stock in him not voting, unless you think he’s making that up or something?

I want to hear from others because you were over eager to lynch LUV earlier, so I don’t know whether to trust this read. I just want to be more confident and I’m still not.

Particularly Spangled and Espresso.

[NC 39]

Plus I think the team is Hectic/Gamma and Hectic gladly put Gamma in over himself

If you truly believe this then why aren’t you concerned that he’s now voting him?

[NC 39]

Let’s do it.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

So, what happened to your Espresso sr? Weren’t you sr me and him?

[NC 39]

Time is limited right now but NC that looks like you’re trying to find a way to vote me without much blowback.

Spoiler:

All I have so far is EP’s thoughts on the night kill feel super fake to me.

You can’t just make this post and not elaborate. What about them reads fake to you?

I think limiting the lynch pool solely to those who were in the failed coalition is more likely to lead to a town loss.

What’s the case on Alchemist again?

Yes, that clearly worked out well for us. :/

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

So, why were you voting Espresso over Alchemist yesterday?

I asked you A) to explain both your Espresso vote, considering you were pushing Alchemist yesterday and B) to explain what about Espresso’s posts, you find “fake”.

Atp in the game, your vote isn’t getting “blowback” isn’t telling me anything but that you aren’t for some reason, interested in answering my questions.

What? I wasn’t pushing Alchemist yesterday? I really don’t get why you’re asking me about EP. I’m pretty sure I made it clear why I scum read him yesterday. Why aren’t you focused on who was on the wagon?

The hint of defeatist attitude in EP’s opening post today feels fake because he didn’t seem at all invested in the consensus Alchemist scum read and it took the threat of a no lynch for him to hammer.

Calling RCMA a potential mislynch and a sub-optimal kill target feels fake because I think we can both agree that no one here is capable of going toe-to-toe with RC in a one-on-one as scum and would much rather do away with him in the night. I feel like EP would be very much aware of this due to how much stock he puts into meta.

I’m not interested because outside of asking me to explain my thoughts on EP’s earlier posts today, they don’t make sense.

Time is limited right now but NC that looks like you’re trying to find a way to vote me without much blowback.

Spoiler:

All I have so far is EP’s thoughts on the night kill feel super fake to me.

You can’t just make this post and not elaborate. What about them reads fake to you?

I think limiting the lynch pool solely to those who were in the failed coalition is more likely to lead to a town loss.

What’s the case on Alchemist again?

Yes, that clearly worked out well for us. :/

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

So, why were you voting Espresso over Alchemist yesterday?

I asked you A) to explain both your Espresso vote, considering you were pushing Alchemist yesterday and B) to explain what about Espresso’s posts, you find “fake”.

Atp in the game, your vote isn’t getting “blowback” isn’t telling me anything but that you aren’t for some reason, interested in answering my questions.

What? I wasn’t pushing Alchemist yesterday? I really don’t get why you’re asking me about EP. I’m pretty sure I made it clear why I scum read him yesterday. Why aren’t you focused on who was on the wagon?

The hint of defeatist attitude in EP’s opening post today feels fake because he didn’t seem at all invested in the consensus Alchemist scum read and it took the threat of a no lynch for him to hammer.

Calling RCMA a potential mislynch and a sub-optimal kill target feels fake because I think we can both agree that no one here is capable of going toe-to-toe with RC in a one-on-one as scum and would much rather do away with him in the night. I feel like EP would be very much aware of this due to how much stock he puts into meta.

I’m not interested because outside of asking me to explain my thoughts on EP’s earlier posts today, they don’t make sense.

I don’t understand how Espresso not being eager to vote Alchemist is scummy, since he already made it clear, he didn’t want to lynch outside of coalition.

That’s assuming EP is familiar with his meta but I didn’t really get the “suboptimal” kill part. I remember he did change his mind on that.

Your posts are super frustrating to me because I don’t know if you are scum trying to give me a migraine or town who is annoyed at me for not being a bloody mindreader!

All I know is we have a little less than two days and nothing you’s said is convincing me to vote Espresso over you.

It’s not that he wasn’t eager. It’s him saying he wants to go back lynching inside the coalition that read defeatist and just doesn’t make sense to me when he wasn’t all that gung-ho about an Alchemist lynch first place.

@LUV, what happened to this? Are you no longer sr Espresso or what?

[NC 39]

I believe there’s scum in EP and Nancy. I don’t know how to articulate it then there pushes are bad and that I’m obvious town here based on my disengagement.

And there was also this. He has never even expressed a sr on Gamma. He’s been on Espresso since pretty much game start, so why is he suddenly voting Gamma?

@LUV, what is your current read on Espresso?

[NC 39]

Plus I think the team is Hectic/Gamma and Hectic gladly put Gamma in over himself

If you truly believe this then why aren’t you concerned that he’s now voting him?

I mean, scum can bus. Do you think scum would not bus in this situation?

They might but I’m just surprised that you had no reaction to that, based on your theory about him being his partner.

I just hope Gamma is scum here but I will hammer either to avoid a no lynch.

[NC 39]

Good luck getting an answer on that

LUV’s vote is clearly a self-preservation vote is what concerns me but that’s NAI.

[NC 39]

@Spangled my progression and reasons for LUV

Spoiler:

@EP
What’s your take on LUV, post-NC 39’s observation about how consensus seems to be that LUV is scum?

NC raises an interesting point, but I'm not comfortable enough with it to put LUV in my coalition.

First, I want active people in my coalition so I have a better chance at correctly sorting them. Putting LUV in because of inactivity and everyone else's behaviour seems backwards.

Second, all of my previous thoughts on LUV still apply. If we consider LUV's universal scum read ("USR") as a town factor in reading him, I'm still left with:

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

LUV, for

two

three

four reasons:
1. The lurking
2. I didn't like his early posts
3. I don't like his recent posts
4. I don't like the OMGUS vote

To expand:

1. My experience thus far has scum lurks surprisingly often. I even advocate for lurker policy lynches in most of my games bcz of how often I've seen scum skate by under the radar by lurking.

2. He wasn't helpful early. Telling us to ignore the mechanics of the game was anti-town. His early RC tr looks like he was trying to avoid attention. Alchemist gave a meta reason for his read, but I recall LUV leaving the TR without any reasons.

3. I disagreed with most of his catch-up posts. I also think that anyone touting a 'low activity' meta for town is doing a disservice to everyone else playing.

4. He again provided no reasons for what he was doing. I'm not even sure if OMGUS is scum indicative, but it's not a good look either way.

And NOW we have a problem.

3 people outside of the Coalition voting for it is a red flag.

HURT: Gamma

HEAL: Alchemist21

Who’s the 3rd?

Spangled

Spangled has GREAT in his. It isn't the same.

m

Oh, whoops. Thought he had completely aligned his with the others.

That makes me feel a bit better about compromising again.

Compromise is the only way I see this coalition getting passed. Everyone is too paranoid and it's making things chaotic.

I don't feel great about LUV in the coalition and I don't know about Gamma, but I'm keeping them in to get the coalition passed.

I also agree that Gamma is more town out of LUV and Gamma.

VOTE: LUV

Per my reasoning above, LUV is a good lynch if the coalition fails because:
1. He's within the coalition (see my earlier reasoning)
2. If he's town, I feel even better about town!NC
3. If he's scum, I feel very strongly about scum!NC (see reasoning above)

The NC connection wasn't my only reason at the time. Although I didn't cite it (and I kind of wish I did now), my scumread on LUV also informed my vote.

@Gg, Hectic? thoughts on this?

[NC 39]

I don't know what reaction you would have expected me to have? He voted a person I was voting and think is scum, so if it is Hectic/Gamma he is helping me. Did you want me to do something cheeky and say teehe, you've activated my trap? If you were in my position, what reaction would you have had?

You bring up very valid points against LUV based on his scumread and vote. I will need to consider that.

I just thought it odd that he has been pushing Espresso as scum but votes Gamma.

And as for weird voting, he has twice voted a different person than he was sr. D1 it was Espresso he was voting but then he suggested Alchemist.

Now today, he is once again pushing for Espresso but he votes Gamma?

I don’t know but I’m not going to rule out scum bussing in the case, Gamma flips scum. I think your case on Gamma has some merit but I’m a bit concerned about the votes on him. I just hope you’re right on LUV being town.

[NC 39]

All I have so far is EP’s thoughts on the night kill feel super fake to me.

So, if you truly think Gamma is scum and you’re a null on Hectic, who do you think is Gamma’s buddy then? Espresso or me, since you’re sr both of us.

[NC 39]

Part of me wants to sheep RCMA so I can totally absolve myself of any responsibility for this game.

Why wouldn’t we be in this frustrating situation if RC was alive?

This is funny, considering that we’re both lamenting RC not being in the game.

[NC 39]

@Spangled my progression and reasons for LUV

Spoiler:

@EP
What’s your take on LUV, post-NC 39’s observation about how consensus seems to be that LUV is scum?

NC raises an interesting point, but I'm not comfortable enough with it to put LUV in my coalition.

First, I want active people in my coalition so I have a better chance at correctly sorting them. Putting LUV in because of inactivity and everyone else's behaviour seems backwards.

Second, all of my previous thoughts on LUV still apply. If we consider LUV's universal scum read ("USR") as a town factor in reading him, I'm still left with:

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

LUV, for

two

three

four reasons:
1. The lurking
2. I didn't like his early posts
3. I don't like his recent posts
4. I don't like the OMGUS vote

To expand:

1. My experience thus far has scum lurks surprisingly often. I even advocate for lurker policy lynches in most of my games bcz of how often I've seen scum skate by under the radar by lurking.

2. He wasn't helpful early. Telling us to ignore the mechanics of the game was anti-town. His early RC tr looks like he was trying to avoid attention. Alchemist gave a meta reason for his read, but I recall LUV leaving the TR without any reasons.

3. I disagreed with most of his catch-up posts. I also think that anyone touting a 'low activity' meta for town is doing a disservice to everyone else playing.

4. He again provided no reasons for what he was doing. I'm not even sure if OMGUS is scum indicative, but it's not a good look either way.

And NOW we have a problem.

3 people outside of the Coalition voting for it is a red flag.

HURT: Gamma

HEAL: Alchemist21

Who’s the 3rd?

Spangled

Spangled has GREAT in his. It isn't the same.

m

Oh, whoops. Thought he had completely aligned his with the others.

That makes me feel a bit better about compromising again.

Compromise is the only way I see this coalition getting passed. Everyone is too paranoid and it's making things chaotic.

I don't feel great about LUV in the coalition and I don't know about Gamma, but I'm keeping them in to get the coalition passed.

I also agree that Gamma is more town out of LUV and Gamma.

VOTE: LUV

Per my reasoning above, LUV is a good lynch if the coalition fails because:
1. He's within the coalition (see my earlier reasoning)
2. If he's town, I feel even better about town!NC
3. If he's scum, I feel very strongly about scum!NC (see reasoning above)

The NC connection wasn't my only reason at the time. Although I didn't cite it (and I kind of wish I did now), my scumread on LUV also informed my vote.

@Gg, Hectic? thoughts on this?

so Espresso here didn't want LUV in the coalition badly, but then used that same logic to say NC and LUV could be a thing because NC didn't want LUV in the coalition too?
is that what you're getting at?

Actually, I didn’t even think of that but on rereading this, I see your point. Why was he linking me and LUV, when he was doing the exact same thing?

[NC 39]

yeah, this game is hard
who was RCMA scumreading again other than Alchemist?

Espresso, Spangled and Gamma, in the event Alchemist was his buddy.

[NC 39]

@Gg, Hectic? thoughts on this?

I just realized that this applied to me. I don't think I've ever been referred as Gg.

I like EP's reasoning in those posts. I don't quite get the NC connection though. I will need that explained.

NC connection sounds like a Columbia drug cartel.

[NC 39]

He thinks if LUV is scum, I could be his buddy, because coalition. I still don’t get it, since it was very clearly Alchemist and Spangled I wanted. I only removed them because RC objected to either being in coalition.

[NC 39]

holy clucking feathers...

I am thinking that Hectic is town which is like further destroying me

If he is than that probably means two scum in coalition? So, LUV/Espresso wouldn’t be clear then in case of a Gamma scum flip.

[NC 39]

I think that the odds of Gamma/Alch overwhelm the odds of any other scumteam.

I think that the odds of Gamma/Alch overwhelm the odds of any other scumteam.

I am willing to move onto Gamma to test this.

You're the other likely Alch partner though, so...

[NC 39]

So, what if you’re wrong on Hectic, who do you think is the second scum then?

[NC 39]

So where I’m at is I read Gamma not voting as non-survivalistic but by not voting, even if you and me were to vote LUV, that would still lead to a no lynch, so do we wait for that or should I just hammer Gamma?

[NC 39]

So where I’m at is I read Gamma not voting as non-survivalistic but by not voting, even if you and me were to vote LUV, that would still lead to a no lynch, so do we wait for that or should I just hammer Gamma?

For Gamma to vote

[NC 39]

I'm cool with a Gamma lynch; their nonchalance and weird tone is ultimately NAI, and if those are gone my (much earlier) point about their sheepiness and weird changing of reads stands. I do want to know from everybody, though, especially Gamma and LUV - what scumteams do you think can there be, at this point, making no foolish assumptions about 1-in-1-out or not?

Well this is what is making this so hard. If LUV was hellbent on Espresso scum, why suddenly jump on Gamma once Gg started a wagon on him?

[NC 39]

@Espresso, response to 1301:

It wouldn’t allow me to respond to it directly.


Yes, this is true but then I was convinced that it was 1 + 1, 1 scum in coalition and one out. Since then Gg replaces GREAT and supertowns it up and I’m having doubts on Hectic being the one scum out, so if Gamma is town, I have to consider the possibility of you and LUV as the possible scumteam. I still think it’s LUV/Gamma over you for scum in though but my changing reads on both GREAT and Hectic slots, have to make me start questioning that.

Because as Hectic correctly pointed out, neither of us wanted LUV in coalition, yet you kept on pushing this idea of a possible LUV/me connection, so you’re tr me now but if Gamma winds up flipping town and LUV is the scum in coalition, with my dwindling sr on Hectic, I can’t help but be paranoid that you’re going to push me as his buddy. So, while I still tr you, I’m going to have to question if the reason you linked LUV and me together is if you already know his alignment.

[NC 39]

@all see spoilers below for my progression and case on the possibility of a LUV-NC connection.

In short, it came about because NC wanted to remove LUV almost immediately after I established that lynching within the coalition was in our best interest. NC and I then had a long discussion about NC's understanding of the coalition mechanics.

Spoiler: you asked for this

NC, did you read 665?

We CAN'T lynch until we pass a coalition or the deadline hits. I'm assuming we'll pull ourselves together enough to beat the deadline, so that leave us with this order of operations:

SCENARIO 1
A. We pass a coalition
B. We succeed
C. Game over

SCENARIO 2
A. We pass a coalition
B. It fails
C. We lynch
D. Game continues

Lynching outside of the coalition in the event of Scenario B makes no sense, as we have confirmed

at least

one scum in that group. We shouldn't risk voting outside of the coalition in the unlikely but possible event of both scum being in the coalition.

And NOW we have a problem.

3 people outside of the Coalition voting for it is a red flag.

HURT: Gamma

HEAL: Alchemist21

Who’s the 3rd?

Spangled

Spangled has GREAT in his. It isn't the same.

Okay, that’s a relief then. I think this is probably a winning coalition then. And you were the only one outside the coalition voting it, so I think it plus you is probably alltown. If we do add you, I would probably sub out LUV over Gamma, since I’m liking his recent posting.

This unfortunately comes after me establishing that we should vote within the coalition.

While I still believe you're town, I think I'd rather keep it {RCMA, LUV, Gamma, Espresso, NC} in the event that scum!NC tries to get 2 scum out of the coalition.

I'm going to start our pairings discussion. It's not super important to complete it until after we figure out the lynch, but I want it out there to get people thinking about it.

It's woefully incomplete rn, but it's a first step.

Possible Pairings

Gamma-Hectic

- I don't recall either of them having each other in the coalitions. Hectic's might have had Gamma for a while, but I think it was brief.

Gamma-Spangled

- pretty sure Spangled started pushing Gamma into the coalition after we removed Spangled. Spangled's vote on Gamma could be a scum gambit.

NC-LUV

- NC clearly didn't understand the purpose of voting within the coalition, so it's possible they would try to put both scum in the coalition + try convincing people to vote outside of it.

There are a few others, but I can't remember them off the top of my head. Imo, it's a red flag if someone in the core coalition (me, RCMA, NC, Hectic for most of the day, and Spangled for a little while) vetoed anyone else bcz a scum in the coalition would want to avoid having another scum in the coalition.

Unlikely Pairings:
(In progress, but it's pretty much all of the in-coalition pairs)

Impossible pairings

(>=50% chance of 1 or more being town)
Alchemist-Hectic
Alchemist-GREAT
Alchemist-Spangled
Hectic-GREAT
Hectic-Spangled
Spangled-GREAT

And NOW we have a problem.

3 people outside of the Coalition voting for it is a red flag.

HURT: Gamma

HEAL: Alchemist21

Who’s the 3rd?

Spangled

Spangled has GREAT in his. It isn't the same.

Okay, that’s a relief then. I think this is probably a winning coalition then. And you were the only one outside the coalition voting it, so I think it plus you is probably alltown. If we do add you, I would probably sub out LUV over Gamma, since I’m liking his recent posting.

This unfortunately comes after me establishing that we should vote within the coalition.

While I still believe you're town, I think I'd rather keep it {RCMA, LUV, Gamma, Espresso, NC} in the event that scum!NC tries to get 2 scum out of the coalition.

@NC

Yeah, I worded that poorly.

I was trying to say scum!NC wouldn't want 2 scum in the coalition and with want to take one out.

i'll be honest, i don't really have much clue what's going on this game

but Espresso, why is it favourable for scum!NC to get 2 scum in the coaliton, don't scum want exactly one in there since we're inclined to lynch from the coalition since we now know there's at least 1 scum in there?

That's exactly what I'm saying. Scum don't want 2 in.

If scum!NC and scum!LUV, NC would want to remove LUV in favour of someone else.

1-1 is the best outcome for scum.

I'm going to start our pairings discussion. It's not super important to complete it until after we figure out the lynch, but I want it out there to get people thinking about it.

It's woefully incomplete rn, but it's a first step.

Possible Pairings

Gamma-Hectic

- I don't recall either of them having each other in the coalitions. Hectic's might have had Gamma for a while, but I think it was brief.

Gamma-Spangled

- pretty sure Spangled started pushing Gamma into the coalition after we removed Spangled. Spangled's vote on Gamma could be a scum gambit.

NC-LUV

- NC clearly didn't understand the purpose of voting within the coalition, so it's possible they would try to put both scum in the coalition + try convincing people to vote outside of it.

There are a few others, but I can't remember them off the top of my head. Imo, it's a red flag if someone in the core coalition (me, RCMA, NC, Hectic for most of the day, and Spangled for a little while) vetoed anyone else bcz a scum in the coalition would want to avoid having another scum in the coalition.

Unlikely Pairings:
(In progress, but it's pretty much all of the in-coalition pairs)

Impossible pairings

(>=50% chance of 1 or more being town)
Alchemist-Hectic
Alchemist-GREAT
Alchemist-Spangled
Hectic-GREAT
Hectic-Spangled
Spangled-GREAT

NC-LUV

- NC clearly didn't understand the purpose of voting within the coalition

, so it's possible they would try to put both scum in the coalition + try convincing people to vote outside of it.

I think you’ve completely misunderstood what I did and didn’t understand about the mechanics of this game. As I have already explained, the ONLY thing I was confused about, was the

timing

of the finalizing of the lynch part of it.

I played this game before as well as GS, so I totally do understand how coalitions work but we won D1 (or so I thought) in Skitter’s game, so the lynch part of that, never came into play and in GS, we voted coalitions and lynches on SEPARATE days, not

simultaneously

.

So, what I had understood, was that any lynch would obviously be voided in case of coalition pass but I thought, we had to have decided on it, BEFORE we knew the outcome of the coalition and then we were suddenly expected to rush the vote, before we had any real info to process - coalition result . Thank God, Sky granted us an extension.

I hope you are now clear on this?

Thank you for the clarification. This is the post I was referring to btw:

Assuming we pass a coalition and it fails, nobody should be voting to lynch outside of the 5 coalition members.

Why not? IF coalition fails - unless you think there’s two scum in it - unlikely. So, for today and today only, IF we lynch, it makes the most sense to lynch amongst the two scummiest players NOT in coalition. It was definitely GREAT for me, until Hectic decided to sub himself for Gamma pretty much immediately after voting the coalition.

I see how the timing misunderstanding coloured your interpretation of who we should be voting for. While that's good to kniw, I'm not sure if it changes my pairings observation.

Scum operating under your assumption above would likely want two scum in the coalition if they thought town would be voting outside of the coalition. In the case at hand, you advocated to remove LUV from the coalition once you learned about the timing. It was probably nothing, but it's why I think an NC-LUV pairing is possible while all the other in-coalition pairings seem unlikely.

Maybe you are the one who isn’t fully understanding the mechanics in this game?

Honestly, maybe you're right. I feel like what I'm saying isn't very contentious, but it evidently is. Hopefully I can work this out in this reply to you.

If that doesn't work and I'm still misunderstanding your posts, can you help me out by stating, as succinctly as possible, comments the following:
- what is the purpose of EP's pairings post?
- where, specifically, is the point of contention between NC and EP?

So which is it @Espresso? Before coalition result, you link LUV/Me because scum!me wouldn’t want 2 scum in the coalition and afterwards, you do a complete 180 on this and say, scum!me would want that?

Ok let's take you and me out of the equation here. I'm going to use A, B, C instead. If I unfairly impose an assumption on A/B/C, don't apply it to you. I'm just working within this micro example here:
1. A and B are partners.
2. A thinks that voting outside of the coalition is town's likely avenue.
3. A therefore wants B in the coalition

4. C says something that disproves what A thought at step 2.
5. A now thinks that town's likely avenue is to vote within the coalition
6. A therefore wants B out of the coalition now.

In this example, A's sudden want to remove B from the coalition is suggests to C that A and B may be paired together.

Bringing it back to the case at hand, your recent posts have demonstrated that the actual events are far more nuanced than my example.

Assuming for a moment that the statements in the example are all true (which you have demonstrated they aren't, but work with me here), and that A=you, B=LUV, and C=EP, does it seem reasonable for me to conclude that you and LUV may be connected?

I don’t understand why you keep maintaining I don’t understand coalition mechanics? I’ve now played 2 games with that particular mechanic? Why would you think I’d expect a lynch to happen at all in the event of coalition fail,

considering I believed we had to decide this before it passed with no clear majority

?

I was perhaps being too general here + we may be talking past each other.

I don't think you don't understand all of the coalition mechanics. The specific mechanic I was referring to was setting up a vote before the coalition and why we should do that.

You understood it a different way because you've played games in this mode before. Totally understandable. I wasn't trying to attack your competency... my point of highlighting the misunderstanding was me jumping to the conclusion j of the ABC example (above) without explaining the specifics.

There is 0 evidence to suggest anything other than a no lynch would happen in case of coalition fail. [...]

On my reading, I assumed we would go right into the lynching phase of D1. Given our limited amount of time, I tried to complete the coalition and get ready for lynching. My posts in my ISO will support this.

Yes, well since I know I’m not the reason for coalition fail, I think you can understand why this is pinging me in the case of a scum!LUV flip.

[NC 39]

I'm cool with a Gamma lynch; their nonchalance and weird tone is ultimately NAI, and if those are gone my (much earlier) point about their sheepiness and weird changing of reads stands. I do want to know from everybody, though, especially Gamma and LUV - what scumteams do you think can there be, at this point, making no foolish assumptions about 1-in-1-out or not?

Well this is what is making this so hard. If LUV was hellbent on Espresso scum, why suddenly jump on Gamma once Gg started a wagon on him?

Yeah...
I mean, was he hellbent on scum!EP though?
Also, do you prefer LUV or Gamma?

Spoiler:

What’s the case on Alchemist again?

All I have so far is EP’s thoughts on the night kill feel super fake to me.

Time is limited right now but NC that looks like you’re trying to find a way to vote me without much blowback.

Spoiler:

All I have so far is EP’s thoughts on the night kill feel super fake to me.

You can’t just make this post and not elaborate. What about them reads fake to you?

I think limiting the lynch pool solely to those who were in the failed coalition is more likely to lead to a town loss.

What’s the case on Alchemist again?

Yes, that clearly worked out well for us. :/

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

So, why were you voting Espresso over Alchemist yesterday?

I asked you A) to explain both your Espresso vote, considering you were pushing Alchemist yesterday and B) to explain what about Espresso’s posts, you find “fake”.

Atp in the game, your vote isn’t getting “blowback” isn’t telling me anything but that you aren’t for some reason, interested in answering my questions.

What? I wasn’t pushing Alchemist yesterday? I really don’t get why you’re asking me about EP. I’m pretty sure I made it clear why I scum read him yesterday. Why aren’t you focused on who was on the wagon?

The hint of defeatist attitude in EP’s opening post today feels fake because he didn’t seem at all invested in the consensus Alchemist scum read and it took the threat of a no lynch for him to hammer.

Calling RCMA a potential mislynch and a sub-optimal kill target feels fake because I think we can both agree that no one here is capable of going toe-to-toe with RC in a one-on-one as scum and would much rather do away with him in the night. I feel like EP would be very much aware of this due to how much stock he puts into meta.

I’m not interested because outside of asking me to explain my thoughts on EP’s earlier posts today, they don’t make sense.

Time is limited right now but NC that looks like you’re trying to find a way to vote me without much blowback.

Spoiler:

All I have so far is EP’s thoughts on the night kill feel super fake to me.

You can’t just make this post and not elaborate. What about them reads fake to you?

I think limiting the lynch pool solely to those who were in the failed coalition is more likely to lead to a town loss.

What’s the case on Alchemist again?

Yes, that clearly worked out well for us. :/

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

So, why were you voting Espresso over Alchemist yesterday?

I asked you A) to explain both your Espresso vote, considering you were pushing Alchemist yesterday and B) to explain what about Espresso’s posts, you find “fake”.

Atp in the game, your vote isn’t getting “blowback” isn’t telling me anything but that you aren’t for some reason, interested in answering my questions.

What? I wasn’t pushing Alchemist yesterday? I really don’t get why you’re asking me about EP. I’m pretty sure I made it clear why I scum read him yesterday. Why aren’t you focused on who was on the wagon?

The hint of defeatist attitude in EP’s opening post today feels fake because he didn’t seem at all invested in the consensus Alchemist scum read and it took the threat of a no lynch for him to hammer.

Calling RCMA a potential mislynch and a sub-optimal kill target feels fake because I think we can both agree that no one here is capable of going toe-to-toe with RC in a one-on-one as scum and would much rather do away with him in the night. I feel like EP would be very much aware of this due to how much stock he puts into meta.

I’m not interested because outside of asking me to explain my thoughts on EP’s earlier posts today, they don’t make sense.

I don’t understand how Espresso not being eager to vote Alchemist is scummy, since he already made it clear, he didn’t want to lynch outside of coalition.

That’s assuming EP is familiar with his meta but I didn’t really get the “suboptimal” kill part. I remember he did change his mind on that.

Your posts are super frustrating to me because I don’t know if you are scum trying to give me a migraine or town who is annoyed at me for not being a bloody mindreader!

All I know is we have a little less than two days and nothing you’s said is convincing me to vote Espresso over you.

It’s not that he wasn’t eager. It’s him saying he wants to go back lynching inside the coalition that read defeatist and just doesn’t make sense to me when he wasn’t all that gung-ho about an Alchemist lynch first place.

On D1, he was voting Espresso but said we shouldn’t limit the lynch to inside coalition. Today, he was pushing Espresso as his main sr and then me for trying to get him to make a case on Espresso rather than just throwing shade on both of us. Then despite thinking EP + me were the scumteam, he jumps on Gamma as soon as Gg starts a wagon on them.

So it concerns me that he immediately jumps on me for trying to correctly sort him. Why isn’t he thinking, no Nancy, you’re just dead wrong? So that pinged me too. It read like a possible OMGUS to me.

The most troublesome aspect of it, is that now that I’m leaning to 2 scum in coalition, neither’s flip clears the other. :/

But to answer your question, I lean LUV over Gamma, because he did that 180 on his read on me and I have only seen him do that as town. I wish I could be more confident in that though.

[NC 39]

I think it would be really ridiculous for scum to think that and type those things.

I can’t wait for you to be in a game with scum!Varsoon or RC then.

[NC 39]

BoP as scum? Which post is a BoP post?

I think the appeal to Nancy was town and then the ridiculousness of the obvtown statement is likely to come from town. I wouldn’t be sad if we moved onto LUV, but I’m liking Gamma for right now more than LUV.

That is the one thing giving me pause but everything else is making me question that. It seems today, he was sr everyone in coalition.

Because he first wanted Espresso, then shades both of us, then votes Gamma. If he really thinks scum is in Espresso/me, does that really make a lot of sense?

Why isn’t he then voting one of us over Gamma?

[NC 39]

I believe there’s scum in EP and Nancy. I don’t know how to articulate it then there pushes are bad and that I’m obvious town here based on my disengagement.

[NC 39]

I believe there’s scum in EP and Nancy. I don’t know how to articulate it then there pushes are bad and that I’m obvious town here based on my disengagement.

If he truly believes this, then shouldn’t he be concerned about Gamma possibly being mislynchbait?

Did he suddenly switch his sr of Espresso/me to Gamma?

or doesn’t he care who gets lynched other than him?

[NC 39]

BoP as scum? Which post is a BoP post?

I think the appeal to Nancy was town and then the ridiculousness of the obvtown statement is likely to come from town. I wouldn’t be sad if we moved onto LUV, but I’m liking Gamma for right now more than LUV.

He was trying to BoP Nancy, saying — ‘remember that game, where I was town? I’m behaving the same now’
or something
but it’s not hardtown for me; you can know you’re being pretty like your towngame and appeal to someone who knows you well as scum. You’re right that it is +town, though...

The other thing was pretty crazy... but it still doesn’t make him town. Scum sometimes post things which give them more attention. He might even be banking on this exact thing.

Well, in RS, the signup, the OP and my sigline clearly stated that I was ND 39 and not nancy and nancy retired sometime ago, so I honestly don’t know what to make of that.

[NC 39]

Nancy honestly I’m not scum here. Don’t you remember Mathblade’s flipless game?

I believe there’s scum in EP and Nancy. I don’t know how to articulate it then there pushes are bad and that I’m obvious town here based on my disengagement.

I don’t think scum make these posts.

Yeah I don't see these as towntells. The first post doesn't really do anything for me and the second I think is worth zip

I agree on the second. I don’t understand why Gg thought it townie. Townie would be, “Nancy (I would say EP if LUV wasn’t already sr him) I’m sorry but your dead wrong on me being scum”. It was beyond obvious that I was trying really hard to correctly sort him and instead of seeing that as someone who’s clearly trying to sort him and pushing him to obvtown if he actually is - kind of similar to what town!Mastina did in Timeshift, he shades me for it.

I dislike him acting like he was somehow entitled to a tr and anyone pushing him to be more readable is automatically scum.

[NC 39]

Town: Spangled, EP, NC 39
Nullish: Hectic
Scum: gobs, LUV
Reads off the cuff

As for what I think of "gob's whole entrance", you're gonna have cv to define that better.

If you ISO him, his first six posts or something.

Rather unimpressive, I also don't like questioning an idea your down with the way gobs did
If LUV is lynched I honestly could see myself being the nightkill

Why would you be the NK? You mean if LUV flips scum? But I still don’t understand why scum would choose to kill inside coalition?

[NC 39]

@NC
Do you prefer LUV or Gamma to kick the bucket?

I love your phrasing.

I still feel better about Gamma than LUV. I was really unsure until he OMGUS’d me. It’s still not a confident read though. I just hope Gamma isn’t pocketing me.

Gun to head, I still think LUV has higher scum equity than Gamma.

[NC 39]

Probably Spangled, I think his efforts are some of the strongest this game

Why someone outside the coalition?

Why do you think inside?

Because of RCMA kill?

[NC 39]

@Gob
What made you change your mind from 1117 to now?

Lack of confidence in my lurking scumtell and RCMA saying LUV is town. I find it very very strange that LUV has not addressed me or my push when we just played as scum together where he lurked. I really feel like LUV would have addressed me at some point, but he hasn’t done that which is concerning.

He had no reads outside coalition other than a null on Hectic.

[NC 39]

I almost basically convinced myself that Susie is hiding something. When I talked about Susie egg Noreen me, that made me think about his play in a more general sense. I think his play generally is less town then gamma

Susie?

[NC 39]

Susie = Uzi. I’m using voice to text

Oh

[NC 39]

@NC
Who are you talking to, in 1354?
And what post are you responding to?
(I’m assuming it isn’t mine).

I'm cool with a Gamma lynch; their nonchalance and weird tone is ultimately NAI, and if those are gone my (much earlier) point about their sheepiness and weird changing of reads stands. I do want to know from everybody, though, especially Gamma and LUV - what scumteams do you think can there be, at this point, making no foolish assumptions about 1-in-1-out or not?

Well this is what is making this so hard. If LUV was hellbent on Espresso scum, why suddenly jump on Gamma once Gg started a wagon on him?

Yeah...
I mean, was he hellbent on scum!EP though?
Also, do you prefer LUV or Gamma?

Spoiler:

What’s the case on Alchemist again?

All I have so far is EP’s thoughts on the night kill feel super fake to me.

Time is limited right now but NC that looks like you’re trying to find a way to vote me without much blowback.

Spoiler:

All I have so far is EP’s thoughts on the night kill feel super fake to me.

You can’t just make this post and not elaborate. What about them reads fake to you?

I think limiting the lynch pool solely to those who were in the failed coalition is more likely to lead to a town loss.

What’s the case on Alchemist again?

Yes, that clearly worked out well for us. :/

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

So, why were you voting Espresso over Alchemist yesterday?

I asked you A) to explain both your Espresso vote, considering you were pushing Alchemist yesterday and B) to explain what about Espresso’s posts, you find “fake”.

Atp in the game, your vote isn’t getting “blowback” isn’t telling me anything but that you aren’t for some reason, interested in answering my questions.

What? I wasn’t pushing Alchemist yesterday? I really don’t get why you’re asking me about EP. I’m pretty sure I made it clear why I scum read him yesterday. Why aren’t you focused on who was on the wagon?

The hint of defeatist attitude in EP’s opening post today feels fake because he didn’t seem at all invested in the consensus Alchemist scum read and it took the threat of a no lynch for him to hammer.

Calling RCMA a potential mislynch and a sub-optimal kill target feels fake because I think we can both agree that no one here is capable of going toe-to-toe with RC in a one-on-one as scum and would much rather do away with him in the night. I feel like EP would be very much aware of this due to how much stock he puts into meta.

I’m not interested because outside of asking me to explain my thoughts on EP’s earlier posts today, they don’t make sense.

Time is limited right now but NC that looks like you’re trying to find a way to vote me without much blowback.

Spoiler:

All I have so far is EP’s thoughts on the night kill feel super fake to me.

You can’t just make this post and not elaborate. What about them reads fake to you?

I think limiting the lynch pool solely to those who were in the failed coalition is more likely to lead to a town loss.

What’s the case on Alchemist again?

Yes, that clearly worked out well for us. :/

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

So, why were you voting Espresso over Alchemist yesterday?

I asked you A) to explain both your Espresso vote, considering you were pushing Alchemist yesterday and B) to explain what about Espresso’s posts, you find “fake”.

Atp in the game, your vote isn’t getting “blowback” isn’t telling me anything but that you aren’t for some reason, interested in answering my questions.

What? I wasn’t pushing Alchemist yesterday? I really don’t get why you’re asking me about EP. I’m pretty sure I made it clear why I scum read him yesterday. Why aren’t you focused on who was on the wagon?

The hint of defeatist attitude in EP’s opening post today feels fake because he didn’t seem at all invested in the consensus Alchemist scum read and it took the threat of a no lynch for him to hammer.

Calling RCMA a potential mislynch and a sub-optimal kill target feels fake because I think we can both agree that no one here is capable of going toe-to-toe with RC in a one-on-one as scum and would much rather do away with him in the night. I feel like EP would be very much aware of this due to how much stock he puts into meta.

I’m not interested because outside of asking me to explain my thoughts on EP’s earlier posts today, they don’t make sense.

I don’t understand how Espresso not being eager to vote Alchemist is scummy, since he already made it clear, he didn’t want to lynch outside of coalition.

That’s assuming EP is familiar with his meta but I didn’t really get the “suboptimal” kill part. I remember he did change his mind on that.

Your posts are super frustrating to me because I don’t know if you are scum trying to give me a migraine or town who is annoyed at me for not being a bloody mindreader!

All I know is we have a little less than two days and nothing you’s said is convincing me to vote Espresso over you.

It’s not that he wasn’t eager. It’s him saying he wants to go back lynching inside the coalition that read defeatist and just doesn’t make sense to me when he wasn’t all that gung-ho about an Alchemist lynch first place.

On D1, he was voting Espresso but said we shouldn’t limit the lynch to inside coalition. Today, he was pushing Espresso as his main sr and then me for trying to get him to make a case on Espresso rather than just throwing shade on both of us. Then despite thinking EP + me were the scumteam, he jumps on Gamma as soon as Gg starts a wagon on them.

So it concerns me that he immediately jumps on me for trying to correctly sort him. Why isn’t he thinking, no Nancy, you’re just dead wrong? So that pinged me too. It read like a possible OMGUS to me.

The most troublesome aspect of it, is that now that I’m leaning to 2 scum in coalition, neither’s flip clears the other. :/

But to answer your question, I lean LUV over Gamma, because he did that 180 on his read on me and I have only seen him do that as town. I wish I could be more confident in that though.

@Spangled, you mean this one?

[NC 39]

Shit

[NC 39]

aeiou

Thoughts on Gob’s read-switching on you and LUV?

I think he is acting like a chicken with its head cut off. I'm having trouble seeing the rhyme or reason to what he's doing. Like he makes that suggestion but he has no real alternative direction based on that. I feel like there is enough people present to CFD if desired.

He definitely does seem very confused.

[NC 39]

I believe there’s scum in EP and Nancy. I don’t know how to articulate it then there pushes are bad and that I’m obvious town here based on my disengagement.

If he truly believes this, then shouldn’t he be concerned about Gamma possibly being mislynchbait?

Did he suddenly switch his sr of Espresso/me to Gamma?

or doesn’t he care who gets lynched other than him?

Gobble... could actually be scum. Bloody hell Nancy you’re awesome — and double awesome if Gobble flips scum. We only have 3 online now though.
And the one thing that gives me pause is that I understood where he was coming from as regards everyone being townie... but scum could say that too.

You really think Gobble could be scum?

[NC 39]

You have to objectively agree voting outside the coalition is antitown. There’s really no way around that.

I think that Gamma and Luv have both done scummy things and townie things. I could see a world where they are both town. I could see a world where they are both scum or individually scum. I think the most likely world is Luv is scum and Gamma town. I liked Gamma’s answers to all our questions. In particular when he speculated that you would be the nightkill, I thought that post was fairly town.

I had thought Luv could be town because of the posts I quoted. After thinking about it on my drive, I’m not sure how much faith I want to put into those posts. NC brought up good points that it was weird he readily went for Gamma. I also was thinking about why he wouldn’t address me or my lurker scum meta case against him when we played a game together as scum that just finished. I feel like that is weird. Given that Gamma is more present than Luv, I think Luv is a further utility kill in that regard.

Does this make sense now for my POV?

I don’t want to lynch outside coalition for a 2nd day. Do we really want to risk another Alchemist 2.0?

[NC 39]

I was sl his predecessor but I’m tl Gg, plus we already mislynched once ouside of coalition, so I think doing it again, helps scum inside coalition to hide.

[NC 39]

VC 2.04 Gamma Emerald (2): gobbledygook, Lil Uzi Vert Lil Uzi Vert (1): EspressoPatronum Not Voting (4): Hectic, Spangled, Gamma Emerald, NC 39 With 7 players alive, it takes 4 to reach a majority. Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-23 19:25:00).

We need a lynch and Gamma is definitely looking better, so I still think LUV.

VOTE: LUV

Is that L-1?

[NC 39]

Spangled already voted.

[NC 39]

gobbledygook died last night! They were Town . It is now day three . Day three will end in (expired on 2019-10-02 17:15:00).

Not what I was expecting.

[NC 39]

I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that it's NC/Hectic, but I don't know why I think that and I don't have time to go into it tonight.

I also don't see myself winning a 1v2 argument with them, so there's also that.

I’m not liking this post. First, you push LUV as my buddy and now Hectic? He was in my original coalition remember? It’s really beginning to get to me that you clearly aren’t reading my posts at all. :/

[NC 39]

VC 1.13 Mod notes: Prodding RC most awesomest and YOUAREGREAT Coalitions: Hectic (5): EspressoPatronum, Hectic, NC 39, RC most awesomest, Spangled EspressoPatronum (5): EspressoPatronum, Hectic, NC 39, RC most awesomest, Spangled NC 39 (5): EspressoPatronum, Hectic, NC 39, RC most awesomest, Spangled Spangled (5): EspressoPatronum, NC 39, RC most awesomest, Spangled, YOUAREGREAT Alchemist21 (4): Alchemist21, EspressoPatronum, NC 39, RC most awesomest Gamma Emerald (2): Gamma Emerald, RC most awesomest RC most awesomest (2): RC most awesomest, Alchemist21 YOUAREGREAT (0): Lil Uzi Vert (0): Lynch: Lil Uzi Vert (2): Gamma Emerald, EspressoPatronum Hectic (2): YOUAREGREAT, Spangled Spangled (1): RC most awesomest Alchemist21 (1): Hectic EspressoPatronum (1): Lil Uzi Vert Not Voting (2): NC 39, Alchemist21 With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority. Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-12 18:00:00).

@Espresso

[NC 39]

Scum operating under your assumption above would likely want two scum in the coalition if they thought town would be voting outside of the coalition. In the case at hand, you advocated to remove LUV from the coalition once you learned about the timing. It was probably nothing, but it's why I think an NC-LUV pairing is possible while all the other in-coalition pairings seem unlikely. ~Espresso

Per my reasoning above, LUV is a good lynch if the coalition fails because:
1. He's within the coalition (see my earlier reasoning)
2. If he's town, I feel even better about town!NC
3. If he's scum, I feel very strongly about scum!NC (see reasoning above)

The NC connection wasn't my only reason at the time. Although I didn't cite it (and I kind of wish I did now), my scumread on LUV also informed my vote. ~Espresso

I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that it's NC/Hectic, but I don't know why I think that and I don't have time to go into it tonight.

Care to explain this?

That... was an interesting NK choice. I wasn’t quite sold on town!Gob, myself — so scum was either convinced we’d see him as town the next day, or was scared of him, or wants to use his conf!town status for something.
That’s all the thoughts I have right now; I’ll revisit this game later and more after my V/LA ends.

Based on RCMA NK, I was thinking it would be you. Maybe scum decided to play it safe, because by the EoD, he was pretty much tr everyone but LUV.

[NC 39]

I’m too tired to do this now but I just did an ISO check on both my slot and Hectic’s and that just confirms my suspicions that Espresso has no justifiable reason to link me with him. I still want to believe he is pushing this in good faith but at what point, do you start to be legit suspicious of absurdity?

[NC 39]

You're using one of my pairings ideas (which again was a WIP from D1) as a reason you can't be paired with Hectic. If you care that strongly, I'll concede that you could be linked with someone else. At the end of the day, you're getting super defensive about a gut read.

We clearly have no idea on who is scum + I'm sure there's a 'perfectly rational explanation' they can point to for their actions. That's why it's going to be hard to 1v2 here.

You’ve been pushing me as buddies with LUV since D1 and now that he’s flipped town, you’re still doing it. Tell me, you’d not be remotely suspicious of that because I don’t believe you.

[NC 39]

@NC who of Spangled or Hectic is scum?

If it’s 1 + 1, I lean Hectic over Spangled. I’m not sure what to think anymore about that. I initially assumed it was 1v1, then prior to LUV flip, I thought 2 scum in coalition and now, no clue.

[NC 39]

Spoiler:

Scum operating under your assumption above would likely want two scum in the coalition if they thought town would be voting outside of the coalition. In the case at hand, you advocated to remove LUV from the coalition once you learned about the timing. It was probably nothing, but it's why I think an NC-LUV pairing is possible while all the other in-coalition pairings seem unlikely. ~Espresso

Per my reasoning above, LUV is a good lynch if the coalition fails because:
1. He's within the coalition (see my earlier reasoning)
2. If he's town, I feel even better about town!NC
3. If he's scum, I feel very strongly about scum!NC (see reasoning above)

The NC connection wasn't my only reason at the time. Although I didn't cite it (and I kind of wish I did now), my scumread on LUV also informed my vote. ~Espresso

I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that it's NC/Hectic, but I don't know why I think that and I don't have time to go into it tonight.

Care to explain this?

My explanation is that I was clearly wrong about LUV.

Why are you still sr me then?

[NC 39]

Correction - people keep asking me about my reasoning from my D1 pairings post (specifically you and LUV) and I keep explaining it for them. That's not the same as pushing.

I was slightly paranoid that you were possibly setting me up for an eventual mislynch but I kept believing this but it’s looking now that my paranoia may possibly have been justified since you - pretty much out of left field are pushing me and Hectic as buddies.

Both of us didn’t want LUV in coalition but you still linked me and LUV as buddies. You made it very clear you wanted LUV lynched. I will find that post. Why did I vote LUV when Gg - someone outside coalition was getting wagoned? What do you see as the scum motivation for that?

I just don’t buy your sudden push on me because it contradicts everything you’ve been saying. You want to mischaracterize that as “overreacting”, I otoh, view it as me being pinged.

Although, I fully expect you to try to twist that too.

Convince me I’m wrong.

[NC 39]

@Spangled my progression and reasons for LUV

Spoiler:

@EP
What’s your take on LUV, post-NC 39’s observation about how consensus seems to be that LUV is scum?

NC raises an interesting point, but I'm not comfortable enough with it to put LUV in my coalition.

First, I want active people in my coalition so I have a better chance at correctly sorting them. Putting LUV in because of inactivity and everyone else's behaviour seems backwards.

Second, all of my previous thoughts on LUV still apply. If we consider LUV's universal scum read ("USR") as a town factor in reading him, I'm still left with:

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

LUV, for

two

three

four reasons:
1. The lurking
2. I didn't like his early posts
3. I don't like his recent posts
4. I don't like the OMGUS vote

To expand:

1. My experience thus far has scum lurks surprisingly often. I even advocate for lurker policy lynches in most of my games bcz of how often I've seen scum skate by under the radar by lurking.

2. He wasn't helpful early. Telling us to ignore the mechanics of the game was anti-town. His early RC tr looks like he was trying to avoid attention. Alchemist gave a meta reason for his read, but I recall LUV leaving the TR without any reasons.

3. I disagreed with most of his catch-up posts. I also think that anyone touting a 'low activity' meta for town is doing a disservice to everyone else playing.

4. He again provided no reasons for what he was doing. I'm not even sure if OMGUS is scum indicative, but it's not a good look either way.

And NOW we have a problem.

3 people outside of the Coalition voting for it is a red flag.

HURT: Gamma

HEAL: Alchemist21

Who’s the 3rd?

Spangled

Spangled has GREAT in his. It isn't the same.

m

Oh, whoops. Thought he had completely aligned his with the others.

That makes me feel a bit better about compromising again.

Compromise is the only way I see this coalition getting passed. Everyone is too paranoid and it's making things chaotic.

I don't feel great about LUV in the coalition and I don't know about Gamma, but I'm keeping them in to get the coalition passed.

I also agree that Gamma is more town out of LUV and Gamma.

VOTE: LUV

Per my reasoning above, LUV is a good lynch if the coalition fails because:
1. He's within the coalition (see my earlier reasoning)
2. If he's town, I feel even better about town!NC
3. If he's scum, I feel very strongly about scum!NC (see reasoning above)

The NC connection wasn't my only reason at the time. Although I didn't cite it (and I kind of wish I did now), my scumread on LUV also informed my vote.

You still haven’t explained this “gutread”. If you weren’t actually pushing me before like you claim, then why now and why do you think this shouldn’t be pinging me - since based on everything you’ve posted until now, it’s really making 0 sense.

[NC 39]

You're using one of my pairings ideas (which again was a WIP from D1) as a reason you can't be paired with Hectic. If you care that strongly, I'll concede that you could be linked with someone else. At the end of the day, you're getting super defensive about a gut read.

We clearly have no idea on who is scum + I'm sure there's a 'perfectly rational explanation' they can point to for their actions. That's why it's going to be hard to 1v2 here.

Well one thing is for sure, it’s 100% LYLO not MYLO because the only way we don’t lose is to correctly lynch one of the scum. So, I obviously know it’s not me and I don’t think it’s Spangled. If you’re actually town here than this is counterproductive. It’s instinctive for me to sr anyone who fmpov is making a bad push on me and if you’re town, this is not helping get the clarity I need to try to figure this out.

[NC 39]

So if 1 + 1, I lean Gamma/Espresso with Hectic more likely than Spangled.

If 2, then obviously Espresso/Gamma but am not sure on which.

Gamma seemed pretty townie at EoD and my suspicion on Hectic has lessened since Alchemist mislynch. I feel the best about Spangled and Espresso’s unexplained 180 on me is majorly paranoia pinging me.

I think it would greatly help if I could figure out which is which: 2 scum in coalition or 1 +1.

Because once we have a clearer idea on that, I think the game is definitely solvable.

I think I feel best about Spangled because he seems to be very natural, kind of the opposite of Espresso but that could also be a playstyle thing.

[NC 39]

Spoiler:

Scum operating under your assumption above would likely want two scum in the coalition if they thought town would be voting outside of the coalition. In the case at hand, you advocated to remove LUV from the coalition once you learned about the timing. It was probably nothing, but it's why I think an NC-LUV pairing is possible while all the other in-coalition pairings seem unlikely. ~Espresso

Per my reasoning above, LUV is a good lynch if the coalition fails because:
1. He's within the coalition (see my earlier reasoning)
2. If he's town, I feel even better about town!NC
3. If he's scum, I feel very strongly about scum!NC (see reasoning above)

The NC connection wasn't my only reason at the time. Although I didn't cite it (and I kind of wish I did now), my scumread on LUV also informed my vote. ~Espresso

I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that it's NC/Hectic, but I don't know why I think that and I don't have time to go into it tonight.

Care to explain this?

My explanation is that I was clearly wrong about LUV.

Why are you still sr me then?

I can sr you without the need of LUV. Your defensiveness is a big one right now.

You obviously haven’t metacased me then.

[NC 39]

Correction - people keep asking me about my reasoning from my D1 pairings post (specifically you and LUV) and I keep explaining it for them. That's not the same as pushing.

I was slightly paranoid that you were possibly setting me up for an eventual mislynch but I kept believing this but it’s looking now that my paranoia may possibly have been justified since you - pretty much out of left field are pushing me and Hectic as buddies.

Both of us didn’t want LUV in coalition but you still linked me and LUV as buddies. You made it very clear you wanted LUV lynched. I will find that post. Why did I vote LUV when Gg - someone outside coalition was getting wagoned? What do you see as the scum motivation for that?

I just don’t buy your sudden push on me because it contradicts everything you’ve been saying. You want to mischaracterize that as “overreacting”, I otoh, view it as me being pinged.

Although, I fully expect you to try to twist that too.

Convince me I’m wrong.

I don't need to convince you of anything if you're actually scum.

And you've been positioning on me for a while now, so it's funny to see you accuse me of positioning on you.

You're using the LUV connection (from D1!!) as a reason to try
clearing yourself. I've already explained this ad nauseum, so drumming it up more just looks like you're trying to cling o something that doesn't and shouldn't matter anymore.

I would really love to solve this game and it’s clear to me whatever your alignment is, you’re not interested in helping me do it.

[NC 39]

You're using one of my pairings ideas (which again was a WIP from D1) as a reason you can't be paired with Hectic. If you care that strongly, I'll concede that you could be linked with someone else. At the end of the day, you're getting super defensive about a gut read.

We clearly have no idea on who is scum + I'm sure there's a 'perfectly rational explanation' they can point to for their actions. That's why it's going to be hard to 1v2 here.

Well one thing is for sure, it’s 100% LYLO not MYLO because the only way we don’t lose is to correctly lynch one of the scum. So, I obviously know it’s not me and I don’t think it’s Spangled. If you’re actually town here than this is counterproductive. It’s instinctive for me to sr anyone who fmpov is making a bad push on me and if you’re town, this is not helping get the clarity I need to try to figure this out.

I'm at a 50/50 between you and Gamma. Pushing either of you is not counterproductive. Saying otherwise is just an attempt at gaslighting me and taking the focus off of yourself.

Fmpov, it’s obviously the same. Fine, push me then. I’m not the reason coalition failed.

But if you’re going to be useless, I will wait for others who are actually interested in helping figure it out. If you’re town here . . . you know what nevermind. It’s blatantly obvious I’m talking to a brick wall. If you were actually interested in solving this game, you’d try to engage me but I’m not going to waste my time if you persist on refusing.

[NC 39]

So if 1 + 1, I lean Gamma/Espresso with Hectic more likely than Spangled.

If 2, then obviously Espresso/Gamma but am not sure on which.

Gamma seemed pretty townie at EoD and my suspicion on Hectic has lessened since Alchemist mislynch. I feel the best about Spangled and Espresso’s unexplained 180 on me is majorly paranoia pinging me.

I think it would greatly help if I could figure out which is which: 2 scum in coalition or 1 +1.

Because once we have a clearer idea on that, I think the game is definitely solvable.

I think I feel best about Spangled because he seems to be very natural, kind of the opposite of Espresso but that could also be a playstyle thing.

Fmpv, I don't have to worry about 2 in bcz lynching you or Gamma will result in a scum death. You shouldn't be worried about 2 in either, as from a town!NC perspective, 2 scum in the coalition results in a scum death either way.

How do you propose we solve the 1+1?

Why shouldn’t I be worried about 2 scum in coalition? There are two other players: you and Gamma and two non-coalition players. Of course I’m worried because it could also be 1 + 1. The point is I don’t want another mislynch or we lose and fmpov, I have no idea if both you and Gamma are scum or just one of you, so I don’t understand where you’re coming from with this.

The point is, I don’t have a clue if it’s 2 in coalition or 1 + 1. I don’t know if you’re the reason coalition failed or you are woefully incapable of correctly understanding my posts. It’s almost like we’re speaking different languages. What I do know is that I am apparently not understanding you any better than you’re understanding me and this is why continuing to engage with you is so damned frustrating because I don’t think anything I’ve said is at all getting through and it’s been like this from day fucking one.

At least if I honestly thought you were making a good faith effort, I might still try but you’re clearly not for whatever reason. You still have yet to explain how and why you suddenly apparently did this 180 on me. It’s really hard not to feel like you’re just confibiasing me.

[NC 39]

Spoiler:

This is how I feel about my current interactions with Espresso.

Espresso: You’re scum, you’re scum.
Me: Help me to solve the game.
Espresso: you’re defensive.

[NC 39]

How do you propose we solve the 1+1?

If it is then I’ve already answered that. You have clearly misunderstood me. I didn’t say it has to be you and Gamma, it could just be one and one outside coalition. I am trying my damndest to figure out which.

So, if we lynch outside, I already told you I lean Hectic over Spangled in that case but that is dependent on it being a 1 + 1.

If it isn’t and Hectic or less likely Spangled, is a mislynch, then we lose. How is this not townie fyp? Isn’t it townie to consider all possibilities?

I don’t understand you at all. :/

[NC 39]

@Spangled, @Hectic, @Gamma, care to weigh in before I bash my head into a wall?

[NC 39]

I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that it's NC/Hectic, but I don't know why I think that and I don't have time to go into it tonight.

I also don't see myself winning a 1v2 argument with them, so there's also that.

I’m not liking this post. First, you push LUV as my buddy and now Hectic? He was in my original coalition remember? It’s really beginning to get to me that you clearly aren’t reading my posts at all. :/

this pings me, like is him saying that really indicative that he isn't reading your posts? might have just forgot or not believe in the 1 in 1 out thing anymore

i do think NC vs Espresso is unlikely to be SvS though, so my scumread on Espresso does make NC town here

I do think he is misinterpreting them because he is clearly getting a different meaning than I’m intending.

[NC 39]

You're using one of my pairings ideas (which again was a WIP from D1) as a reason you can't be paired with Hectic. If you care that strongly, I'll concede that you could be linked with someone else. At the end of the day, you're getting super defensive about a gut read.

We clearly have no idea on who is scum + I'm sure there's a 'perfectly rational explanation' they can point to for their actions. That's why it's going to be hard to 1v2 here.

Well one thing is for sure, it’s 100% LYLO not MYLO because the only way we don’t lose is to correctly lynch one of the scum.

So, I obviously know it’s not me and I don’t think it’s Spangled.

If you’re actually town here than this is counterproductive. It’s instinctive for me to sr anyone who fmpov is making a bad push on me and if you’re town, this is not helping get the clarity I need to try to figure this out.

am i misinterpreting this? are you saying here you know you're not scum and you don't think it's Spangled? or is there a deeper meaning behind this?

No, the coalition didn’t fail because of me and Spangled’s posting has been very natural and unrehearsed. The obvious problem is we are at an extreme disadvantage here, having no scum flips.

[NC 39]

You're using one of my pairings ideas (which again was a WIP from D1) as a reason you can't be paired with Hectic. If you care that strongly, I'll concede that you could be linked with someone else. At the end of the day, you're getting super defensive about a gut read.

We clearly have no idea on who is scum + I'm sure there's a 'perfectly rational explanation' they can point to for their actions. That's why it's going to be hard to 1v2 here.

Well one thing is for sure, it’s 100% LYLO not MYLO because the only way we don’t lose is to correctly lynch one of the scum. So, I obviously know it’s not me and I don’t think it’s Spangled. If you’re actually town here than this is counterproductive. It’s instinctive for me to sr anyone who fmpov is making a bad push on me and if you’re town, this is not helping get the clarity I need to try to figure this out.

I'm at a 50/50 between you and Gamma. Pushing either of you is not counterproductive. Saying otherwise is just an attempt at gaslighting me and taking the focus off of yourself.

Fmpov, it’s obviously the same. Fine, push me then. I’m not the reason coalition failed.

But if you’re going to be useless, I will wait for others who are actually interested in helping figure it out. If you’re town here . . . you know what nevermind. It’s blatantly obvious I’m talking to a brick wall. If you were actually interested in solving this game, you’d try to engage me but I’m not going to waste my time if you persist on refusing.

this pings me as well tbh, why you have to be like this NC?
overall the Espresso/NC interactions today still read as SvT though (with Espresso being the scum)

Because he’s been continually pushing me without even given a single reason for it and none of it is making any sense to me. I’m trying really hard to solve this game and it feels like pulling teeth, the way he’s been interacting with me, so I was getting really frustrated by that. I wouldn’t have responded that way, had he even given at least one single reason for this push, which seems to come out of nowhere, so I got fed up with banging my head against a brick wall.

[NC 39]

Spoiler:

Scum operating under your assumption above would likely want two scum in the coalition if they thought town would be voting outside of the coalition. In the case at hand, you advocated to remove LUV from the coalition once you learned about the timing. It was probably nothing, but it's why I think an NC-LUV pairing is possible while all the other in-coalition pairings seem unlikely. ~Espresso

Per my reasoning above, LUV is a good lynch if the coalition fails because:
1. He's within the coalition (see my earlier reasoning)
2. If he's town, I feel even better about town!NC
3. If he's scum, I feel very strongly about scum!NC (see reasoning above)

The NC connection wasn't my only reason at the time. Although I didn't cite it (and I kind of wish I did now), my scumread on LUV also informed my vote. ~Espresso

I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that it's NC/Hectic, but I don't know why I think that and I don't have time to go into it tonight.

Care to explain this?

My explanation is that I was clearly wrong about LUV.

Why are you still sr me then?

I can sr you without the need of LUV. Your defensiveness is a big one right now.

You obviously haven’t metacased me then.

Can you point me to a few town games for metacasing purposes? You're right that I haven't done this yet.

Necromancer where I nearly got mislynched in the first two hours for flipping out over RVS votes. Pretty much any game in my entire ISO. Maybe Minuet? Gameshow? Oh Vengeful Ghosts. I challenge anyone to find a game other than Shirley you jest where I roled jester and of course the RC game where I was cop cleared IC, where I didn’t react that way.

[NC 39]

So if 1 + 1, I lean Gamma/Espresso with Hectic more likely than Spangled.

If 2, then obviously Espresso/Gamma but am not sure on which.

Gamma seemed pretty townie at EoD and my suspicion on Hectic has lessened since Alchemist mislynch. I feel the best about Spangled and Espresso’s unexplained 180 on me is majorly paranoia pinging me.

I think it would greatly help if I could figure out which is which: 2 scum in coalition or 1 +1.

Because once we have a clearer idea on that, I think the game is definitely solvable.

I think I feel best about Spangled because he seems to be very natural, kind of the opposite of Espresso but that could also be a playstyle thing.

Fmpv, I don't have to worry about 2 in bcz lynching you or Gamma will result in a scum death. You shouldn't be worried about 2 in either, as from a town!NC perspective, 2 scum in the coalition results in a scum death either way.

How do you propose we solve the 1+1?

Why shouldn’t I be worried about 2 scum in coalition? There are two other players: you and Gamma and two non-coalition players. Of course I’m worried because it could also be 1 + 1. The point is I don’t want another mislynch or we lose and fmpov, I have no idea if both you and Gamma are scum or just one of you, so I don’t understand where you’re coming from with this.

I don't think lynching outside of the coalition is correct here, so I'm assuming any vote that passes today will be within the coalition.

When I said 2-in doesn't matter today, I meant that the town who is in the coalition will always be voting for scum if they vote within the coalition. So assuming scum!EP and scum!Gamma for a moment, town!NC is fine either way.

I agree with you that the discussion should focus on 1+1.

The point is, I don’t have a clue if it’s 2 in coalition or 1 + 1. I don’t know if you’re the reason coalition failed or you are woefully incapable of correctly understanding my posts. It’s almost like we’re speaking different languages. What I do know is that I am apparently not understanding you any better than you’re understanding me and this is why continuing to engage with you is so damned frustrating because I don’t think anything I’ve said is at all getting through and it’s been like this from day fucking one.

I recall gobbled saying you were the common denominator in all of these misunderstanding posts, but I'll agree that I've misinterpreted

some

of your posts. I don't see where I'm

continually

misinterpreting you, but you keep saying I am + then doing the same back to me. Regardless of your alignment, we both agree that it's frustrating.

At least if I honestly thought you were making a good faith effort, I might still try but you’re clearly not for whatever reason. You still have yet to explain how and why you suddenly apparently did this 180 on me. It’s really hard not to feel like you’re just confibiasing me.

It's honestly a mixture of gut read, my interactions with you this game, your general hesitance on giving strong reads, and your defensiveness about any scumread on you.

On the latter point, I still need to look at your meta. On the other points, I still need to look into them further and weigh them against Gamma.

Common denominator? Because she also misinterpreted my posts and so did Gamma earlier. Are you attaching some significance to this?

I reacted better to Gg because it was blatantly clear that it was completely unintentional, It wasn’t so clear with either you or Gamma.

How am I hesitating? You want a readslist? I can definitely do that, although I think like I said earlier, I've been pretty much vomiting reads since the game started.

[NC 39]

How do you propose we solve the 1+1?

If it is then I’ve already answered that. You have clearly misunderstood me. I didn’t say it has to be you and Gamma, it could just be one and one outside coalition. I am trying my damndest to figure out which.

So, if we lynch outside, I already told you I lean Hectic over Spangled in that case but that is dependent on it being a 1 + 1.

If it isn’t and Hectic or less likely Spangled, is a mislynch, then we lose. How is this not townie fyp? Isn’t it townie to consider all possibilities?

I don’t understand you at all. :/

I didn't say you thought it had to be me and Gamma.
I didn't say 1+1 is not towny.
I didn't say your Hectic>Spangled lean is not towny.

This is why you think I'm misunderstanding you... I'm not saying some of the things you think I'm saying.

Question for you so I can understand your perspective -- Are you considering +/ open to voting outside of the coalition today?

I think we should optimally lynch the objectively scummiest slot, whether they’re in coalition or not. If that can’t be clearly determined, than lynching inside coalition make more sense.

[NC 39]

am i misinterpreting this? are you saying here you know you're not scum and you don't think it's Spangled? or is there a deeper meaning behind this?

What do you think the deeper meaning would be?

i wasn't sure, that's why i asked, i just thought it a bit odd that she would say "it can't be me because i know i'm town", i mean that's evident for everyone from their perspective, so not really something i see worth bringing up

Why is it odd, considering Espresso was hard pushing me yesterday? Also, I was in failed coalition, so no I really don’t see that.

[NC 39]

@Spangled, who are you currently most leaning scum on?

[NC 39]

NC’s points against EP seem mostly to be ‘you’re misunderstanding me and pushing me’ actually, which is certainly less potent than I thought the points were. It has some merit, but not all that much. But EP’s push on NC is out of left field and I don’t understand it either.
@NC
Why is EP scum, besides him misunderstanding you?
@EP
Why is NC scum; why are you pushing them?

It’s not a hard read and I keep going back and forth on him. It’s more the first linking me with LUV and now that he flipped town, he is or was suddenly pushing me. He had previously pushed the me/LUV link so hard prior to that. It’s also of course, paranoia about him being the reason for coalition fail, since Gamma looked better closer to EoD (assuming only 1 scum in coalition). I’m also planning to take another look at LUV’s case on him and deciding whether he was sr playstyle or if it had any actual merit.

[NC 39]

@Spangled, who are you currently most leaning scum on?

Frick if I know.
I want to townlock you Nancy, but something is holding me back and I don’t have a clue as to what it is.
Honestly I might be coming round to properly tring Hectic but I don’t bloody know why. Maybe them going against the flow as regards me? (But honestly I don’t understand that at this point so... ??)
Somewhat similarly, I feel like I kind of

want

to scumread EP, but goodness if I know why. I don’t feel like they’ve... I don’t know, approached the game well? And some good points have been brought up about them... gotta look at those.
Gamma... kind of fades from my mind? I can’t even remember what I felt about them. Previous end of day I remember moving off them for lynching because I thought their answers etc. were towny, but everyone here has been towny; we’re losing ‘cause we lynched the scummy people, funnily enough.

But it’s all so bloody weak, all of my feelings here. In LyLo I love cases but I can never really make them myself, and this is a rough LyLo; I’ve townread all of you guys at various points, and never really scumread any of you properly. Honestly I want to find someone to sheep because I don’t know

what

to do here.
I might deadsheep, honestly, at this point, particularly Gob. I’ll go back and look.
But I’d love cases from all of you as to why your proposed scumteams etc. are likely.

Well I am in failed coalition, so I don’t think it makes sense to townlock anyone atp, especially anyone in failed coalition. I can continue to repeat ad nauseum that I’m not the reason it failed but I obviously can’t prove it.

How can you dead sheep Gg, who was he sr besides LUV near EoD? Oh you mean his POE order? *confused*

[NC 39]

@Hectic
Why didn’t you decide to “go hectic” this time around?

Am I missing something here? I have no idea what you’re talking about?

[NC 39]

@Gamma, who is your current strongest sr?

[NC 39]

Could someone towncase Gamma please?
I don’t know if I see it, to be honest.
And Gob’s reasons for scum!Gamma weren’t awful. But the fact that he moved away from them is kinda telling. But then again it was onto LUV and that was town so...

Well I thought LUV had more scum equity than Gamma but he’s made a few posts that townpinged me but I could also see arguments for him coasting.

This is why I was so frustrated with Espresso because I’m having real trouble seeing his push on me as making any sense whatsoever, given that he had been previously insisting that LUV townflip likely spewed me town and then there was this post by Gamma that had both LUV and Gg as scum, like he seemed so convinced about that. That sort of thing is generally more likely to come from town than scum.

I did like Espresso better yesterday, so I think we need to hear a lot more from Gamma.

[NC 39]

Town: Spangled, EP, NC 39
Nullish: Hectic

Scum: gobs, LUV

Reads off the cuff

As for what I think of "gob's whole entrance", you're gonna have cv to define that better.

This certainty on Gg, LUV, looked townie but he needs to post a lot more for me to have any real measure of confidence on this.

If I could get a strong town read on either Gamma or Espresso, it would make this so much easier, since I’m having real trouble reading Hectic.

[NC 39]

@Gamma, who is your current strongest sr?

Do we need to prod Gamma? Has he site flaked? His last post was on site was Friday afternoon.

[NC 39]

@Gamma, who is your current strongest sr?

Do we need to prod Gamma? Has he site flaked? His last post was on site was Friday afternoon.

Sorry, nm. I just checked the activity thing. Apparently he’s on V/LA until Wednesday.

[NC 39]

VC 3.01 (unchanged) Not Voting (5): EspressoPatronum, Spangled, NC 39, Hectic, Gamma Emerald With 5 players alive, it takes 3 to reach a majority. Day three ends in (expired on 2019-10-02 17:15:00).

Why does this keep happening every single week?

[NC 39]

@Sky is it possible to prod Gamma, yes or no?

[NC 39]

@Sky is it possible to prod Gamma, yes or no?

[NC 39]

He hasn’t been online since Friday, I checked. I just hope it’s not anything accident related. :/

[NC 39]

Alright, so I was desperately hoping to have Gamma post as well as here more from Espresso.

My theory was based on if only one of them super obvtowns it, it likely points to only one scum in coalition and a 1 + 1 and we obviously would lynch the one of them who doesn’t.

If both Gamma and Espresso were to super obvtown it, then it also likely points to a 1 + 1 with one presumably being a deep wolf. However in that case, because we would be at greater risk of a mislynch if we get it wrong, the correct play then, would be to vote outside of coalition and lynch the most one likely to be the buddy, between Hectic/Spangled.

If neither one super obvtown it, then I lean to 2 in coalition and we then should lynch which one has greater scum equity of the two.

————————

So, rn I honestly don’t know what to do without more info.

But if I were to make a current readslist, it would be:

NC 39

Spangled

Hectic

Espresso/Gamma

Gamma for overall ISO and Espresso if a deep wolf.

Gamma seemed pretty townie near EoD D2 and I’m still struggling to find the town motivation for Espresso push, after he had pushed LUV and me so hard as potential buddies. Problem is Gamma rarely has a spectacular ISO as either alignment. So, he’s often a frequent mislynch for that reason. Espresso’s argument was LUV flipped town but he had previously stated that LUV town flip also likely made me town. This sudden completely out of left field 180 on my slot, made me wonder if I was maybe being sacrificed to protect someone else. I’m just not really clear who that would be but since I tl Spangled, it would probably be Hectic or Gamma. However the next day he backed off of me, which would point against that and ping town or if he realized I was a terrible push.

[NC 39]

I have been confused because this game is confusing.

Spangled is totally right that there is 1 scum playing probably the best game of their career right now

. I am not gonna be around for the rest of the day. I think I’ve addressed everything that was directly asked of me.

This is what is making me hesitant on voting Gamma, because if Gg is right about this, neither Gamma or Hectic logically qualify as “deep wolves”.

And my strongest tr is Spangled.

[NC 39]

Plus I think the team is Hectic/Gamma and Hectic gladly put Gamma in over himself

But earlier he posted this but would either scum!Hectic or scum!Gamma kill Gg here?

But maybe I’m reading too much into WIFOM since he was pretty much tr everyone including Hectic and Gamma just prior to flip.

[NC 39]

holy clucking feathers...

I am thinking that Hectic is town which is like further destroying me

If he is than that probably means two scum in coalition? So, LUV/Espresso wouldn’t be clear then in case of a Gamma scum flip.

Yeah, but 1 in, 1 out makes more sense I think. I'm stuck in a loop of constantly going back to square one with this game.

Pedit:

Yeah, you're right Hectic. It is dangerous thinking. I just think that getting 1 scum into the coalition is easier than getting both into the coalition. But I am bad at scum and so I tend to examine others' actions in a "I would do this as low effort scum move" lens.

My issue is that if there are 2 scum in I have no team in mind that accurately fits that

.

Hmmm

[NC 39]

Town: Spangled, EP, NC 39
Nullish: Hectic
Scum: gobs, LUV
Reads off the cuff

As for what I think of "gob's whole entrance", you're gonna have cv to define that better.

If you get killed today Gamma, who do you think is the nightkill?

Probably Spangled, I think his efforts are some of the strongest this game

Why does scum!Gamma kill Gg over Spangled? Again, probably driving myself crazy with WIFOM.

[NC 39]

@mod, V/LA

I will be away for a few days, so since EoD is tomorrow night, I probably won’t have internet access

.

[NC 39]

I won’t have internet access from probably 10 -11:0pm until EoD.

[NC 39]

Hi, okay. I’m just on my way out the door, so will vote my strongest sr.

VOTE: Espresso

I wish I had more to go on.

I hope this is right.


Hopefully, see you guys D3.

[NC 39]

EspressoPatronum has been lynched! They were Town . A win condition has been achieved! The scum team of NC 39 and Gamma Emerald have won the game!

\o/

I just got back.

[NC 39]

Good game everyone

Thanks RC. <3

[NC 39]

Sigh. Well played, NC and Gamma. Damn NC deepwolfing to the end.
Sorry for my terrible read on you, Alchemist.

Makes me feel a little better that no one called NC as scum in the dead thread either.

I can’t believe we were both in coalition and endgamed. Is that a record?

[NC 39]

Sigh. Well played, NC and Gamma. Damn NC deepwolfing to the end.
Sorry for my terrible read on you, Alchemist.

Makes me feel a little better that no one called NC as scum in the dead thread either.

um, I called NC scum

sorry about misreading Alchemist21 who 0 posted but aside from that the only people I was wrong on were the ones who directly instigated me and I'm fine with that.

But you tr me but wasn’t happy about it. That’s what you said anyway.

[NC 39]

NC was obvious scum.

Based on? How do you think I would have treated your slot differently as town? I disagree.

[NC 39]

ALL HAIL QUEEN NANCY!

<3

[NC 39]

Dammit!!! My NC3* was because Nancy would be scum if she didn’t die I wish I didn’t die

RC had to die to get LUV mislynch, you, to get Espresso.

[NC 39]

NC was obvious scum.

When she was the only one efforting, no, it wasn’t.

Good game all! This game was... not

unfair

for town, but certainly it could have been made easier in many ways.
But that certainly doesn’t take away from scum’s victory; very darn well played, you two.

Next time, I hope we both get to roll town together.

[NC 39]

I can't believe we won despite me vanishing
Sorry about that

I was legit worried about you, ask Sky.

[NC 39]

NC was obvious scum.

When she was the only one efforting, no, it wasn’t.

Yes, it was. If you actually read any of what she was pushing, you would’ve realized that. Effort does not equal alignment.

You mean other then saving Gamma?