TM 2021 - Black Flag Nightless

[Menalque]

Playing mafia isn’t cooking or solving a math problem

Also, the easiest way to get the answer to a math problem is copying the work of the kid who’s (1) good at maths and (2) you know is good because there’s proof of it

[Menalque]

And okay fine, go and read my iso and come back to me then

But fmpov you’re overreacting to what wasn’t even a push/shade (again, I suppose I can see how you can view it as shade but in that case it was unintentional)

And that overreaction itself is making me uneasy

Lmao calling something an overreaction to shade me more while saying it’s not a shade. I can’t. Lol

It’s not shade if I’m just straight up saying your reaction is concerning and you could be scum?

That’s literally shade lol

A shade is a post designed and/or poking someone to make them look bad. Calling my reaction an overreaction poisons the mind of the reader. It’s a trick I use as scum a lot.

That’s not how I use shade

Shade is when you try to make a slot look bad/worse without actually calling them out or saying you think they’re scum

It’s a way to damage them without exposing yourself

Saying someone is scummy for something and explaining why isn’t shade

Agree to disagree. I am not spamming the thread with word definition fight with you when I have a shit ton to read and catch up on.

Sure

I’m just making the point that when I say I’m not shading you there it’s because of my difference in definition, I’m not trying to argue I’m not attacking your slot with that point because I am

[Menalque]

Auro, I get that you like to argue, but what exactly are you trying to achieve here? Mena probably isn't getting eliminated today, and fire has already said he's not changing his mind.

@Chenn Why is your TR on me gone?

And why exactly is Menalque probably not getting eliminated today? You buddies with him or something?

I think it’s more that three people are TRing me (infinity, flopz, joqiza) and another four I think are townleaning me (Lili, chenn, auro, johnny) leaving only (you, fire)

Also, if you’d /read the game/ then you would know that the idea of infinity/me being partnered is laughable

[Menalque]

You don’t have a reliable “good at maths” kid, so you have to evaluate yourself. The question is I am wondering if you can.

I do, it’s called “town players in towns that have previously won in flag games and who advanced a strategy”

[Menalque]

I think I would still like to eliminate infinity today, if scum, then (chenn->johnny) in either order the next two days

If infinity!town, I’d like to kill math tomorrow, and then if scum, fire

If neither is scum, then probably best to execute me on D3 and then in lylo try to figure out if it’s in (chenn, auro, fire) that scum is most likely or if scum just followed a “let town eat themselves” plan and if it’s in (Johnny, flopz, +1 of the above 3)

Still doubt that lili or joqiza are scum, but obviously at that point they should be double checked too

[Menalque]

I would obviously prefer that order, but does anyone in principle disagree that the best 3 slots to flip until scum!hit are infinity/math/me ?

[Menalque]

You are the only slot who I was strongly expecting to say that lmao

I read it for a moment as you agreeing and was about to call you out on it

[Menalque]

What are your feelings on math @infinity?

[Menalque]

Thoughts on his reactions to me on this and the last page?

[Menalque]

I would obviously prefer that order, but does anyone in principle disagree that the best 3 slots to flip until scum!hit are infinity/math/me ?

I'd still rather kill Chennisden first. I'm not super comfortable with decision trees just yet, we've not had any real tension from wagons yet.

You mean in terms of competing wagons? I kind of doubt scum would want to create competing wagons D1 or D2 unless they can split their votes to make it two competing town wagons

[Menalque]

it's certainly not scum-indicative for math

okay why?

[Menalque]

I’ll do you one better:

AL still prob bad
Not quite so much as before
Still best info lim

[Menalque]

Alternatively, if you prefer a different form:

I once knew a player called infinity,
Worked with two scumbuddies in a trinity,
If he’s not scum,
We’ll have a good outcome,
Looking in mathblade’s vicinity!

[Menalque]

intent

[Menalque]

Lilith

Eh?

[Menalque]

Flashwagoning mathblade would also be fun

[Menalque]

I think the one thing holding me back is that I think infinity clearly has equity with multiple slots (Johnny, chenn) being the top of that list

Whereas I’m less sure who math would be scum with?

[Menalque]

Like it’s not math/joqiza bc of koba/super i think

The way math was talking with fb makes me think that’s not a partnership

I guess maybe if Koba was just being insanely blatant and taking refuge in audacity then math/infinity could be a thing? Chainsaw defence style

Hmm

Actually, there are more partnerships possible than I thought

There’s no reason why math/flopz couldn’t be a thing

There’s no reason why math/chenn couldn’t be a thing

There’s no reason why math/auro couldn’t be a thing

In terms of purely associative stuff, there’s also no reason why math/lili couldn’t be a thing

[Menalque]

VOTE: mathblade

[Menalque]

There once was a lad named Something_Smart,
My limericks he wished to tear apart,
If he can do better,
I’ll send him a sweater,
But if not he’s only getting a fart!

[Menalque]

koba’s playstyle is audacious so I don’t see why chainsawing infinity couldn’t be a thing. they did that in legends.

why mathblade > infinity now? after I just joined the wagon too .o.

Honestly he’s just annoying me more than infinity is at this point

I don’t really wanna do johnny tho, I just wanted to see if there would be any panic unvotes from anyone who knew he’d flip town

[Menalque]

I once found a website called rhymezone,
For limericks there’s no better touchstone,
It’ll sort you right out,
In a jiffy no doubt,
Quite frankly in getting there you must not postpone!

[Menalque]

Also, like, I don’t think me voting math is that surprising lili: I already said that if infinity!town that’s where I’d wanna go tomorrow. I’m not sure there’s that much to be lost in reversing the order, but I’ll switch back to infinity if there isn’t support for this, I wanna end day shortly

[Menalque]

I think math continuing to just give takes and to not read up or read ISOs is a Bad Look (tm)

[Menalque]

The point that must be addressed,
Is not at poetry who’s the best,
His sonnets aren’t bad,
But unless he’s a cad,
A limerick he must enter into the contest!

[Menalque]

Also, like, I don’t think me voting math is that surprising lili: I already said that if infinity!town that’s where I’d wanna go tomorrow. I’m not sure there’s that much to be lost in reversing the order, but I’ll switch back to infinity if there isn’t support for this, I wanna end day shortly

I don’t think it’s an unreasonable vote? more asking because of wagoning things do you know what I mean

to be honest I don’t even know what I mean

Not... exactly? Basically, full disclosure, this is from a practical POV: I would like to kill in (infinity, math) until scumflip. If there’s not scum then I’ve fucked up p badly, so be it, that can’t be helped, but I think there’s decent odds there’s scum in there, probably >rand odds. I’ve fought all day for infinity and still think a lot would be resolved by flipping him — eg I think we almost always just kill in (Johnny and chenn) the next two days then reevaluate if the game isn’t over. However, I feel less confident on infinity than I did earlier — this may be because I’ve more or less made it clear what to do to get a TR from me (engage me in good faith, try to focus beyond small areas) and so he’s just... done that. He still hasn’t towned it up at all like he did in PyP imo, but he has improved.

Math coming in, proposing a big grand strategy, and then getting super shitty when I wanted to verify that it’s actually a strat that’s good for town is... dubious. Especially as I think he’d have used the fact that he proposed the strategy to try to ensure he was in the townbloc (where, if he’s scum, that definitely... weakens the strat and makes it easier for scum because one of them is fairly safe from elim). I also dislike his points that I don’t want a townbloc when among my opening posts I said something very along the lines of “if I can just find like 3 other town I’m confident in, ideally 4, then the game is basically won”. Which is not precisely talking about townblocs but which is thinking in that sort of way — successfully PoEing scum. Then there’s koba basically having just lazily tunnelled me/super for the entirety of the game after my rep in. I just don’t get good vibes from how math is playing this, and his lack of reading is concerning to me. I dislike that he’s pushing me without having read my ISO, and I dislike how quickly his suspicion of fb disappeared as soon as I *asked* about his strat. Wasn’t even critical, just asked about it.

So basically, I’m less sure on infinity and math has made the koba!slot worse imo. Which then brings me to my final reason for switching: I feel like it’s gonna be easier killing math today. I think infinity has sort of locked himself into a bad position as scum because he knows I’m very dubious of him but by insisting he super duper TRs me I think that’s a hard place to pivot out of it I push him tomorrow for instance (which I will prob be doing if math doesn’t flip scum). Whereas I feel like it’s going to be another absolute fucking slogfest to elim math tomorrow if I *am* wrong on infinity, and so for that reason I think I’d rather reverse the order rn

[Menalque]

Alright I gotta run for a bit, lmk what you think of what I’m saying here lili?

I’d also like to hear from joqiza on the point. Actually, people in general can weigh in

[Menalque]

I also think (?) I’m townreading firebringer now

[Menalque]

Joqiza, how strong are you on johnny!scum? I’ll vote there if you’re very confident, but my concern is he really feels like a compromise slot, which I think both makes him more likely to be town and makes him a less useful flip if town compared to infinity/math

[Menalque]

Math also seems vaguely disingenuous if his whole thing is “a townbloc wins the game but only if I’m a member” is his position, which is kinda what it seems like to me

[Menalque]

In my view, a block of myself/Menalque/Lilith/Auro probably wins the game,

I would seriously consider adding fb to this

I think he’s very offbase this game, and is being a bit lazy, but I think it does read like he’s solving in a lot of his interactions and I’m struggling to see what his aims are as scum

[Menalque]

would prefer fb > auro in bloc I think. team likes fb

[Menalque]

I’m also not sure it’s exactly a bloc because of you/auro, fb/me, my diminished but still somewhat present auro paranoia

[Menalque]

Auro what do you think of fb again?

[Menalque]

pauronoia

Dear god, tell me this isn’t the new “Flavor Fever”

[Menalque]

I don't think fb or I matter: townblocs from the perspective of "let's just lim everyone else" are theory bad as you always have better information with flips, I think you/Joqiza/Lilith should just make an extra effort at aligning with each other.

I agree that townblocs that don’t get re-examined are bad. I also think that townblocs that are overly forced are bad, which is why I don’t think this is a townbloc exactly nor do I really wanna make it one (I would say a townbloc is where basically all the TRs are mutual). But I think I’d like to have a pool of players that I don’t want to elim on D1 or 2 even if I’ll re-evaluate on D3 if no scum flips by then, and I’d like to try to align votes as much as possible within that. Me/lili/joqiza aligning would be good; having 4 or 5 votes would be even better.

I’m also not sure what lili’s actual read is on me: I know I’m somewhere towards town but idk if I’m a lean, a read, strong or weak, or conditional for her, which is also slightly complicating.

[Menalque]

Okay, I think I’m happy with just calling fb town now although I would still like to know what joqiza thinks

[Menalque]

If you and lili are both saying he’s town, and I was coming round to that anyway then I think that all points towards me prob being wrong earlier on him

[Menalque]

What, me and fb? Or me and lili?

[Menalque]

Oh, right

I think fb is prob going to continue to tunnel me all game so I wouldn’t necessarily call this aligning, but I think if we can win before a lylo with both of us in it and I can stop him getting much influence in the game that probably isn’t a problem

[Menalque]

That doesn’t seem like a super helpful question, auro

[Menalque]

I meant more like

I think the game has gotten back to a point where it’s fine/pleasant to play and ranking people by charisma probably isn’t helpful for that

[Menalque]

I’d say talking about influence is fine but I think charisma can have an oog implication of what people are like just in terms of their personality and it’s sort of a blurred line. Like skitter for instance is a very charismatic person as is the duck but I’ve seen games where neither of them could get what they wanted at all and had no influence despite their charisma

I think influence-wise it seems like johnny/flopz/fb/infinity are probably towards the bottom

Chennis somewhere in the middle as is math

Then maybe auro?

Then probably lili

Then probably joqiza and me

[Menalque]

I put firebringer there because he’s wanted me dead for like 70 pages or something but I haven’t had more than 2 votes for the last maybe 40 pages, I don’t think

[Menalque]

I think alignment-independent personality reads are somewhat relevant in forming alignment reads and the scenarios where versus are interesting to look at, but perhaps I should shut up about that now

I do agree this is an interesting thing but feel like the gamestate isn’t at a point where it’s clutch enough that it’s worth the risk of making things unpleasant again

[Menalque]

Oh right

I mean, I would disagree with that so long as he continues to call me scum and one of my aims is to continue sidelining him so long as that continues

[Menalque]

Why do you think him having more influence would be good?

[Menalque]

I thought you were TRing me auro?

[Menalque]

Oh, I’ve stopped going for pagetops but I can’t resist post 3333

[Menalque]

Idk, I guess it just seems weird to me that if you think player A and player B are both town and player A wants to kill player B while player B doesn’t want to kill player A to want player A to be more influential within that gamestate

[Menalque]

I mean there’s also interest in infinity or in mathblade (or maybe in me?) so you can try to argue why one of those 3 slots would be a better flip than you or for someone else entirely

[Menalque]

He’s clearly softing vengeful

[Menalque]

Math also seems vaguely disingenuous if his whole thing is “a townbloc wins the game but only if I’m a member” is his position, which is kinda what it seems like to me

That is not my position AT ALL. This is horrible blatantly bad misrep. My position is that of J’s mentioned above. Find a townblock that is mutually agreed upon and execute outside of it. Re-evaluate said block on occasion then keep going.

Are you seriously going to accuse me of misrepping in the same catch up where you make this post:

That doesn’t seem like a super helpful question, auro

Someone please explain why Menal is a townread other than (oh just reread the pages). That very much looks like a wool over the eyes response when someone doesn’t like their reads questioned.

I am thinking Flopz/Johnny/AL/Menalque for my would elim pool.

Which presents my suggestion that auro maybe not encourage people to rank other players by charisma as putting “wool over the eyes” because of “not liking their reads being questioned”?

[Menalque]

And cool — you’re outside of it. Felt like the fact that you were presenting it on your entry meant you were expecting to be inside it/weren’t going to be happy with being outside it

[Menalque]

This posting is much better than Menalque’s keep J in your townblock.

The first line of that post is about how his views are similar to my own, and i made the post first

How are you trying to call out joqiza as doing good posting for saying the same thing as me only afterwards? Because he used more words to say it?

[Menalque]

Oh, right

I think fb is prob going to continue to tunnel me all game so I wouldn’t necessarily call this aligning, but I think if we can win before a lylo with both of us in it and I can stop him getting much influence in the game that probably isn’t a problem

Why does this read like it comes from a scum PT?

Yes, a fetish of mine is telling the town exactly what I’m planning to do as scum just for shits and gigs, you’re such a truly

inspired

scum hunter mathblade, congratulations

[Menalque]

Oh right

I mean, I would disagree with that so long as he continues to call me scum and one of my aims is to continue sidelining him so long as that continues

So you’ll listen to him so long as he townreads you? What if a majority of the game didn’t townread you? Surely there would be a reason. Someone’s reads/alignment aren’t dependent on whether they read you right, they’re dependent on logic and thoughts and bringing those to the table to find scum.

In this case, as in koba’s, potentially as in yours, the entire game was being interpreted through a lens of me!scum. As I know that not to be true, why would I trust the reads of that person on the rest of the game if I know they’re viewing all the other slots bearing in mind the idea that I’m scum and evaluating our interactions in that light

Also, if a majority of the game didn’t townread me, I’d probably die, duh doy

Finally, yes, shockingly, I’m already aware of that! But as already covered, if the rest of their reads are gleaned through the filter of believing X is scum and you know for a fact that X is not scum, that’s good reason to be sceptical of the rest of their reads and not just their read on you

[Menalque]

I feel sort of bad if fire repped out because of me but also feel like that’s irrational of me

[Menalque]

@Menalque

Here's the progression from Koba that I liked (a bit long):

{
500,

Koba says they won't be able to eliminate scum!Super d1

965,
966,

Koba thinks Super might be scum, but is looking outside

1006,

Koba votes lilith

1011,
1012,
1013,
1023,
1026,

Koba is gauging Super's response here

1028,

Koba thinks lilith/Super are partnered

1034,
1036,

Koba wants to lim lilith first because they don't think they can lim Super d1

1038,

Koba still appears to be evaluating their own read, though

1044,
1058,
1072,

Koba asks Super for a reads list

1080,
1082,
1096,
1106
}

Koba expressed a paranoia of Super, but acknowledged that they didn't think they could ever find eliminate her d1. When they voted lilith, they seemed to believe that Super's response was partner-indicative. They appeared to be trying to re-evaluate their own read, and asked Super for a reads list.

Koba has watched me catch scum!Super twice. Once while Koba and I were in a hydra together. Both times, I caught Super because she demonstrated TMI about flipped slots.

This is a complex thought process for scum to fake. In addition to that, it is largely internal, they're not trying to show off their towny thought process, they're just scumhunting. And, based on my personal meta with them, I believe is likely they would have this thought process as town.

Quoting this to be able to find it more easily

I’ll have a look tomorrow when less tired and I’ll try to parse it

[Menalque]

Like I can see worlds where math!slot is town quite easily and they’re playing badly and that’s just irritating me because in koba’s case they were tunnelling for personal reasons and in math’s case... he just doesn’t seem to have any real arguments for why I’m scum besides “blah mena was a meanie about my strat and also he’s lazy!! >:(“ and is also refusing to read the game through and is trying to engage without any context (which I just think is +scum in general tbh), which I guess boils down to math being OMGUSy (which i do know is true and I’m aware he has problems with strong voices) and lazy himself

[Menalque]

And like math, you can go on about being busy IRL as much as you like but the game is like a two hour read at most on a laptop, you could definitely have managed that over the last 3-4 days, especially if you idk, read when you’re taking a shit or something as well (which is, full disclosure, how I normally make sure I’m caught up on games in the morning)

Either get the read through done and summarise your thoughts on it, or stop lazily dicking around with my slot because I didn’t want to stroke your ego

[Menalque]

koba’s playstyle is audacious so I don’t see why chainsawing infinity couldn’t be a thing. they did that in legends.

why mathblade > infinity now? after I just joined the wagon too .o.

Honestly he’s just annoying me more than infinity is at this point

I don’t really wanna do johnny tho, I just wanted to see if there would be any panic unvotes from anyone who knew he’d flip town

What makes you not want to do Johnny exactly?

I’ve reconsidered due to joqiza wanting him more

I feel like my big concern is twofold:

(1) johnny has been a pretty easy slot to wagon and has compromise-y vibes to me, that means he could be town despite seeming p superficially scummy

If he is just scum, great, I think odds are town wins

The concern, point (2) is that if he /is/ town then there’s potentially another slogfest of a day tomorrow where johnny!town (when he seems like a v likely partner for infinity at this point) weakens the case on infinity!scum slightly and I think the question of killing in (you/me/infinity) remains on the table and that can’t be fully resolved before lylo if it is wrong that there’s at least one scum in those three names. Whereas if infinity!town then we can still kill you tomorrow and then if I’m wrong on you too I can be eliminated on D3 to force te-evaluation in time for lylo instead of me just being lylo bait

[Menalque]

Also, like, I don’t think me voting math is that surprising lili: I already said that if infinity!town that’s where I’d wanna go tomorrow. I’m not sure there’s that much to be lost in reversing the order, but I’ll switch back to infinity if there isn’t support for this, I wanna end day shortly

I don’t think it’s an unreasonable vote? more asking because of wagoning things do you know what I mean

to be honest I don’t even know what I mean

Not... exactly? Basically, full disclosure, this is from a practical POV: I would like to kill in (infinity, math) until scumflip. If there’s not scum then I’ve fucked up p badly, so be it, that can’t be helped, but I think there’s decent odds there’s scum in there, probably >rand odds. I’ve fought all day for infinity and still think a lot would be resolved by flipping him — eg I think we almost always just kill in (Johnny and chenn) the next two days then reevaluate if the game isn’t over. However, I feel less confident on infinity than I did earlier — this may be because I’ve more or less made it clear what to do to get a TR from me (engage me in good faith, try to focus beyond small areas) and so he’s just... done that. He still hasn’t towned it up at all like he did in PyP imo, but he has improved.

Math coming in, proposing a big grand strategy, and then getting super shitty when I wanted to verify that it’s actually a strat that’s good for town is... dubious. Especially as I think he’d have used the fact that he proposed the strategy to try to ensure he was in the townbloc (where, if he’s scum, that definitely... weakens the strat and makes it easier for scum because one of them is fairly safe from elim). I also dislike his points that I don’t want a townbloc when among my opening posts I said something very along the lines of “if I can just find like 3 other town I’m confident in, ideally 4, then the game is basically won”. Which is not precisely talking about townblocs but which is thinking in that sort of way — successfully PoEing scum. Then there’s koba basically having just lazily tunnelled me/super for the entirety of the game after my rep in. I just don’t get good vibes from how math is playing this, and his lack of reading is concerning to me. I dislike that he’s pushing me without having read my ISO, and I dislike how quickly his suspicion of fb disappeared as soon as I *asked* about his strat. Wasn’t even critical, just asked about it.

So basically, I’m less sure on infinity and math has made the koba!slot worse imo. Which then brings me to my final reason for switching: I feel like it’s gonna be easier killing math today. I think infinity has sort of locked himself into a bad position as scum because he knows I’m very dubious of him but by insisting he super duper TRs me I think that’s a hard place to pivot out of it I push him tomorrow for instance (which I will prob be doing if math doesn’t flip scum). Whereas I feel like it’s going to be another absolute fucking slogfest to elim math tomorrow if I *am* wrong on infinity, and so for that reason I think I’d rather reverse the order rn

Oh no, this strategy I mentioned is the best strategy. Regardless of if everyone instantly dumped votes on me for a green flip.

You realize you’re in essence BOPing me for not reading 100+ pages in about 50 hours while working for 8 of them and actually having a fucking life on Sunday and doing my best to answer questions asked in other games? Yes I haven’t read backwards and yes that is shitty. But town’s got what it got. But I think at some point if you’re somehow town you have to realize my entire life cannot and will not revolve around mafia. This is a game ffs.

Again, the entire game is like 2 hours to read prob and I wasn’t even asking that, I was telling you to read my ISO which is like probably 30 mins at most to see if you actually think I’m scum but instead you won’t do that and insist on reading me, if you are reading me, purely based on what you’ve seen since you repped in, whereas i think the points which most clearly show that I haven’t been approaching this game from a scum mindset are already in my ISO, but instead of verifying what multiple people are telling you incl people you’re TRing you’re continuing a lazy OMGUS tunnel for me *asking you a single fucking question that you decided to take as me shading you, aka the least charitable way you could possibly take it*

And you’re surprised that I have concerns about you when your pred lazily tunnelled me in a very similar way basically all game, which makes me think maybe the behaviour in your slot is more than a coincidence and is, in fact, strategic

[Menalque]

Well, this is a very pleasant surprise, hi Shirou!

[Menalque]

I’m very down to vote johnny, I just like hammering

[Menalque]

You may wanna speak to lili/auro?

[Menalque]

I mean tbf if he’s reading sequentially and is only around page 55 then he’s about 50 pages off the mathblade rep in or more

It’s almost the opposite of what math has been doing lol

[Menalque]

Shirou, do you have a read on me yet?

[Menalque]

@mena no response to my limericks big sad

It’ll come, patience, patience

[Menalque]

DK is town that does very random things for no good reason, pushes everyone without properly investing on it, think that they can keep "scum on the edge" by doing empty wagons,

It may not be a good reason to actually townread koba!slot but I will echo the sentiment that this is town!koba to a T, and the latter half of point (2) isn’t inaccurate either, but especially this stuff

They’re one of the, if not the, most arrogant players on site imo, and the fact they do this sort of shit every game bc they feel a need to try and be big brain or just to mix things up is why we don’t get along (alongside their inability to admit that that’s what they’re doing or to admit that they’re really a very average player with a big ego — which I am too, but I can cop to it)

[Menalque]

ss in discord: “mena realized he been schooled”

Them be fightin’ words, partner

[Menalque]

probably better things to do w/ your time even if you want to sweat

Why chennis

[Menalque]

Shirou, do you have a read on me yet?

I only did read 2/3 of one of yours posts replying to math, but I do like the fact you're voting math slot.

I wouldn't say it's anything close to a town read but I'm fine with your slot at the moment. Your positioning in the gamestate feels fine right now, but I need to read your posts I guess.

Okay, this is about what I would expect, ty

[Menalque]

Doesn’t that make it really hard for you to read slots like me this game where I replaced a p lurky slot like 50 pages in?

[Menalque]

I also agree lol

[Menalque]

I can give you the summary which is that as koba continued to lazily tunnel me/super i started getting progressively more doubts on them despite thinking they were town initially — this was further bolstered by super (top TR) reaching the same conclusion right around the same time. Then when math repped in he starts going on about a big strategy to win of townblocing, I asked him if this was verifiable from previous flag games, he flipped out and said I wa shading him and being lazy and that both of those things were scum indicative for me, and while I was considering him fairly neutral before that the overreaction itself pushed me towards scumreading him, however I’m kinda hesitant because it’s also possible that the approach he’s taking on me is just posting me off (bc it’s wrong and lazy and requires the least generous possible interpretation of everything I’ve been doing) and that’s influencing my read there

[Menalque]

Wow, that was an awful sentence, my bad

[Menalque]

don’t worry I’m really awful at playing scum

Lies

[Menalque]

I feel like you will get to me town correctly unless you start having excessive paranoia

[Menalque]

if u townread me i will challenge menalque to a rap battle

Now this is a story all about how,
My life got flipped turned upside down,
Let me take a minute just sit at the bar,
And let me tell you how I became last year’s Rising Star

Mafiascum(dot)net born and raised,
The open queue’s where I spent most of my days,
Chillin out, maxin’, relaxin’ all sweet,
And formin some townblocs — man, we had ‘em beat

When a couple of scumfucks who were up to no good
Started making trouble in main thread and neighbourhoods
I got in one little fight and the team got scared,
Said we gotta shoot this guy N1 he’s a regular Voltaire
Started making

[Menalque]

super infernal take but what if koba/johnny/flopz is literally the team lmao

Then killing johnny first is still good, no?

[Menalque]

I like shirou for scum a lot

I do not, why do you?

[Menalque]

I feel like you will get to me town correctly unless you start having excessive paranoia

I'm gonna be honest, take in consideration I may change this as I read more, but if someone came to me and said "gun to your head, who do you take to endgame as townblock?"

I would say Lilith/Super/Chennis/Mena, and if I'm wrong on someone it's probably only one which means we still win?

I can be easily be wrong on someone there though, especially given I haven't read much of your posts. But the way you're talking to me, talking about DK, your stance on the gamestate which is voting math, etc.

It just feels town.

You’re getting better at reading me, well done

I think this makes it two games in a row! Excite

[Menalque]

I disliked you trying to play around her overall.

Huh, that was an unexpected reason. And by "playing around her" you mean what, exactly?

dunno, it's not a question of what exactly you were doing, it's a question of:

I think Lilith is town, anyone trying to discredit a bit, throw shade on her slot or etc in my eyes, is probably not going to look good. It's the same reason I raised eyebrows on Johnny about Chennis, and I don't even seriously town read Chennis yet, while I do town read Lilith a lot.

If there's one player that'll pocket me in this game and I'll never see it coming it's Lilith...I don't know why but I've trouble seeing her as mafia, at all.

I think she's a very good scum player if she's scum here to the point I don't think I've a chance against her without deep meta-diving, which I probably won't do.

Maybe I should just give her a town read already...

idgi?

[Menalque]

ur not gonna like it when i throw shade on lilith then (:

??

[Menalque]

Also Menalque, what's your opinion in my slot since it seems "scum!Shiro" stock is rapidly rising on the market for some reason

I am very happy to call you town for now

[Menalque]

if u townread me i will challenge menalque to a rap battle

Now this is a story all about how,
My life got flipped turned upside down,
Let me take a minute just sit at the bar,
And let me tell you how I became last year’s Rising Star

Mafiascum(dot)net born and raised,
The open queue’s where I spent most of my days,
Chillin out, maxin’, relaxin’ all sweet,
And formin some townblocs — man, we had ‘em beat

When a couple of scumfucks who were up to no good
Started making trouble in main thread and neighbourhoods
I got in one little fight and the team got scared,
Said we gotta shoot this guy N1 he’s a regular Voltaire
Started making

excuse me where is my limerick

Maybe you’re not getting a limerick but rather something else

[Menalque]

@Mena 3519 feels like how I would sow paranoia/shade on a slot if scum, and then shirou says he's sus of people who shade lilith.

Oh I just felt like that’s a very fair take to have on lili and something I low-key feel myself at this point even if I haven’t verbalised it

[Menalque]

Shirou is basically in what I like to call the skitt-zone as in, I will default townread him for D1/D2 and try to work with him to find scum because I know I’m not gonna catch him just off his posting — the only way I’m gonna do that is if, while working with him, I realise he’s manipulating the gamestate/me/angling for particular scum-agenda goals

It helps that he took the fb!slot that I’d just come around to TRing prior to the rep

[Menalque]

Scum!shiro stock is Tesla basically

[Menalque]

I love that concept, incidentally

Up there with JokeExplainerBot

[Menalque]

I like shirou for scum a lot

I do not, why do you?

Idk, he was arguing theory with me, and it seemed like he believed it strongly, and then he equivocated and started buddying me a bit. Felt like a scum way of dodging a 1v1

I don’t think scum!shiro is worried about 1v1ing literally any player on site

[Menalque]

Also worth noting in 3563 he asked Menalque specifically, though I'm not sure what that means

Me and Menalque have a short story of staring at each other in games and going

"so, how do you read me?"

because we weren't the best on reading each other in the beginning but we're hopefully working through it.

For anyone curious, I think it dates back to the fact that we first encountered each other in a scumgame where we were buddies and swept the town

Which thereby induced intense paranoia in me whenever I saw him in a game because I think he’s so strong as scum

[Menalque]

I love that concept, incidentally

Up there with JokeExplainerBot

JokeExplainerBot...?

Ok that one may be better, I may search it up later.

It may not be the precise name, but that was the concept

I’ll see if I can find it, hang on

[Menalque]

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=27163

Up there with Cromulent Simpsons Quotes

[Menalque]

Doesn't mean he'd necessarily want to get into a 1v1/think it's beneficial

If memory serves me right he actually tends to believe that 1v1s will be perceived as TvT if there’s sufficient force from each side/that he’s good enough to still be perceived as town for the way he pushed someone to guillo even if they flip town

[Menalque]

There are possibilities that Shirou is taking a very hard “pocket mena” approach to the game but I don’t wanna worry about that unless we flip a couple of the scum seeming slots and they’re not actually scum

[Menalque]

This post doesn't make me paranoia you that much neither means much, but you do know that in a mafia game it's never going to not be weird saying "hey, you've read me correctly congrats" right...

By the way I don't remember, did I read you correctly in our last game?

Yeah I know, but if I was scum I probably wouldn’t do the deliberately weird thing y’know

But it’s all wifom anyway

And yes, you did, and you did it in almost exactly this same way I think (I’m okay calling mena town for now I think but that’s open to revision on later days and might change)

[Menalque]

I mean, it does definitely make you less likely to be buddies

[Menalque]

Can we just lim johnny? I’m bored

[Menalque]

You want the hammer, Menalque?

Always

[Menalque]

But lili can have it here, I wasn’t a main pusher of johnny so I don’t feel I deserve it

VOTE: johnny

[Menalque]

If Johnny!scum then I get to hammer AL tomorrow though!

[Menalque]

No, I can be nice sometimes lmao

[Menalque]

Sure but then hammer

This day has already almost gone 150 pages and we were outposting the normal before the incident, and we have 30 more pages than the large theme

[Menalque]

we’re already in a much greater battle, the title of best limericker

She has a point

[Menalque]

I need night to work on my compositions

[Menalque]

Sure but then hammer

This day has already almost gone 150 pages and we were outposting the normal before the incident, and we have 30 more pages than the large theme

It's very impressive seeing people replace in and read the entire game btw

Mathblade:

[Menalque]

Dooooo iiiiiiiiit lili

[Menalque]

I wouldn’t necessarily either, but I also wouldn’t make a big deal of my reads or try to push them particularly hard if everyone was telling me “oh, we townread X because of stuff that happened earlier, check their ISO” without actually... going and doing that

[Menalque]

HOLD ON I’M BUSY BEING PETTY

I LUST FOR BLOOD

[Menalque]

Bye Auro!

[Menalque]

anyway whatever this is a tomorrow problem right

Yes

If Johnny scum i think we prob just win

[Menalque]

In the words of ducks and hustlers everywhere: let’s get that bread

[Menalque]

Nice

[Menalque]

Fear of a name increases fear of the thing itself, Harry

[Menalque]

he who doesn’t deserve to be named

????

Are you trying to insinuate that shirou is being coached by abr?

This is a very, very funny suggestion

[Menalque]

okay abr is permabanned

I’m pretty sure it’s against the rules to communicate about these games outside of your MS-ordained PT and discord server

So you’re just.... casually accusing shirou and team of breaking rules by conversing with a permabanned user to get ahead in a game?

I think he means that ABR left instructions in their discord or PT for Shirou to do that

Which is ridiculous, obviously, given that ABR was a profoundly average scumplayer while Shirou is one of the absolute best on site

[Menalque]

It is still very funny that you think that Shirou would listen to ABR on how to play scum

[Menalque]

Mena you overestimate me...but thanks

I don’t think so, there’s few enough players that completely snowed (not just fooled but completely

snowed

) RC when he was playing and you did so in a p spectacular fashion

[Menalque]

It is still very funny that you think that Shirou would listen to ABR on how to play scum

*shrug* Glad to provide humor for being offsite a year+ I guess?

Pedit: good on the no contact. I advise it stay that way.

Oh, tbf Shirou is an alt so I guess you might not be aware of their identity

[Menalque]

That’s sad, it makes those posts less funny

[Menalque]

Hey on a scale of 1 to 10 how good is Shirou’s scum play
1 being conf guilty
10 being my scum game
(I consider myself excellent scum shit town)

Multiple people are saying this in thread and I kinda wanna see just how good compared to me and then compare that to reads of me

Normally I wouldn’t but this seems relevant

15

[Menalque]

Mena you overestimate me...but thanks

I don’t think so, there’s few enough players that completely snowed (not just fooled but completely

snowed

) RC when he was playing and you did so in a p spectacular fashion

this sounds like a juicy story

They’re announced as being Fumuki and I know that they don’t generally care about being ID’d but I’d rather they confirm that they don’t mind me saying who they are here before doing so/specifying where that happened

[Menalque]

Again, while I think Shirou is town this game they’re easily top 5 scum players on site (that I know of/have seen first hand) and I think probably top 3 in terms of active players

And they play significantly less than the other names in that group

[Menalque]

And would scum!Shirou consider me a threat and want me gone early and therefore use the current game state to do that?

I doubt it, I don’t think scum!shirou would consider anyone a threat here really

[Menalque]

okay abr is permabanned

I’m pretty sure it’s against the rules to communicate about these games outside of your MS-ordained PT and discord server

So you’re just.... casually accusing shirou and team of breaking rules by conversing with a permabanned user to get ahead in a game?

I think he means that ABR left instructions in their discord or PT for Shirou to do that

Which is ridiculous, obviously, given that ABR was a profoundly average scumplayer while Shirou is one of the absolute best on site

According to my team Discord, average is a profoundly generous descriptor.

Fair point

[Menalque]

I think shirou is confident they can get through a misguillo on any player here if they need to and still come out smelling of roses the next day

So I don’t think they’d feel any immediate need to move against anyone, and would just spend a while getting a feel for the game before making moves

[Menalque]

Mena you overestimate me...but thanks

I don’t think so, there’s few enough players that completely snowed (not just fooled but completely

snowed

) RC when he was playing and you did so in a p spectacular fashion

RC didn't know my scumrange had improved in that game to be fair, I think I would have a much harder time winning against him again.

I would genuinely very much dislike playing against town!RC again as scum because it just sounds very hard work if he doesn't tunnel a random person in D1/D2.

I honestly think I lose a round 2 against town!RC.

You’re very modest, which is one of the reasons why I like you

[Menalque]

if shiro is scum he's pocketed me and Menalque

I don’t think he’s pocketed me tbf, I just explained that he’s in the tier of scum that I don’t consider it to be worth my time trying to read conventionally

[Menalque]

That’s the problem. We eventually do.

No we don’t? If there’s a townbloc of 5 and there’s a deepwolf in it, that’s still winning for town provide we hit scum at some point from D1-3

[Menalque]

Fuck, even if we didn’t hit until D4 so long as there’s a max of 1 scum in the townbloc it’s still winning

[Menalque]

Mena you overestimate me...but thanks

I don’t think so, there’s few enough players that completely snowed (not just fooled but completely

snowed

) RC when he was playing and you did so in a p spectacular fashion

RC didn't know my scumrange had improved in that game to be fair, I think I would have a much harder time winning against him again.

I would genuinely very much dislike playing against town!RC again as scum because it just sounds very hard work if he doesn't tunnel a random person in D1/D2.

I honestly think I lose a round 2 against town!RC.

You’re very modest, which is one of the reasons why I like you

If he is scum I wanna take the dude out for a beer and share scum stories but liking him is independent of my read of him. I just feel like something is wrong and I can’t place it with Shirou. That generally happens with deep wolves.

I mean, my read on him is also independent of me liking him? But again, I don’t see him being scum as a problem here provided he’s the only one in the slots I’m considering town (joqiza, lili, him, auro)

[Menalque]

Town block of 5 has two scum.

Yes, obviously it’s losing if there are two

My point is there’s only the need to worry if there are 2 and I don’t think there are

[Menalque]

If Shirou is a deep wolf, townread their buddy and oh dear.

Right, only the only person here is chenn who fits that description and i really don’t want chenn in the townbloc

[Menalque]

the other option is me

Shush

[Menalque]

We both know you’re town lili, stop pretending u might be scum

[Menalque]

Lunch is over I gotta go but something stinks here

What a missed opportunity

You could have gone for like “i finished the fish I was going eating for lunch but something still stinks here” or so many other options

[Menalque]

VOTE: mathblade

U already hammered lili

[Menalque]

Oh I thought we had a night phase

[Menalque]

Just w/ no kill

[Menalque]

Math’s interpretations all game have been bizarre which is why I started moving scum there

[Menalque]

Hey on a scale of 1 to 10 how good is Shirou’s scum play
1 being conf guilty
10 being my scum game
(I consider myself excellent scum shit town)

Multiple people are saying this in thread and I kinda wanna see just how good compared to me and then compare that to reads of me

Normally I wouldn’t but this seems relevant

If math is scum can someone make this into a new version of the scumastina video that reck created

[Menalque]

@Mena Since you admit you can't trust your read on shirou, I suggest you trust your read on fire

What, you mean my TR?

[Menalque]

in reality the best I could muster for town this game would be promising to bus Mena or mathblade for the rest of the game.

[Menalque]

I don't think it's impossible their 1v1 was scum theater by the way, I just think it's probably not what we should assume, it would be a very overly ballsy/risque play

Fwiw I probably would hardbus a player in a flag setup but I don’t think I’d hardbus infinity specifically because I like him and think he’s a good player, and would want to work with him

I think if anyone here is a slot I would have plausibly been doing theatre with it would be math!slot as it would have been one of the most effective ways for me and koba to avoid playing with each other while still playing to wincon

[Menalque]

Ya ngl that comment makes me want to drop the hammer on him

Johnny is still at E-2 btw

Why would u announce this fam

[Menalque]

Joqiza, lili
Shirou(chenn)
Auro
Infinity(me)
Math
Flopz
Johnny

Assume johnny!scum -> town gets 4 more guillotines as a maximum (D2-5)

Shirou prob fine but need 1 guillo to make sure chenn not partner (3 guillos left, 2 before lylo)

AL guillo (2 guillos left, 1 before lylo)

Leaving in lylo-1 a base of (me, lili, super, shirou, auro, flopz, math) if AL!town and chenn!town

In that case we only get to kill 2/3 of (auro, flopz, math) so is that winning? Probably? But it’s also a little bit scary

[Menalque]

I was debating waiting for a pagetop

And a 1

[Menalque]

And a 2, and a

[Menalque]

Nice

[Menalque]

One of my teammates wanted to ask the thread if there's anyone who knew johnny wasn't hammered earlier

I was unsure, but leaning towards hammered

I couldn’t remember in the moment if shirou unvoted or not and couldn’t be bothered to check

[Menalque]

thanks for the setup

Welcome!

[Menalque]

I would probably be willing to save chennis until lylo-1 so if you can find me a scum before then it’s a moot point

If not, then, well... we’ll have to have talks

Also we may end up arguing about infinity tomorrow because I think he has high partner equity with johnny, but I’d be amenable to an order of math->infinity

[Menalque]

3857 really does just look like a scumclaim so I’d be surprised if Johnny!town atp, but if he is then... not sure about where to go tomorrow, things are more complicated

[Menalque]

I don't want to touch Chennis/AL/Menalque at all

I don't think Chennis is partnered with either AL or Menalque in the off chance I'm wrong on scum!Chennis

I don't think AL/Menalque are partners

Keeping those three alive do seem to make it possible to not need to hyper solve their slots if we disagree on who is town there, as long as we agree on the basis on what doesn't look like partners.

Touching AL/Menalque/Chennis is the path to scum victory that I can see now, regardless of Johnny flip as long as Lilith/Joq are town.

To make this simpler, are you basically saying you think there’s max of 1 scum in the three of us?

[Menalque]

Well I'm town so

[Menalque]

But I guess we’ll see

If you are town, have you got any final points you’d like to stress for us to look at tomorrow? I can’t promise i will follow your takes as you’ve been disengaged from the thread, but I do promise I’ll take another look at what you had to say in the case that you’re town

[Menalque]

I can’t really imagine scum!shirou here closing off all avenues of miselims

I’m not sure that’s what’s happening, or not to that extent

But it’s not enough of a concern to be worrying about it tomorrow or maybe even on D3

[Menalque]

It’s not because if scum!shirou can insert a buddy into that group of players not to be touched, then by offering himself as a potential lim while broadly townread, it would give exactly enough elims to reach mylo (if johnny scum) at which point he gets to 1v1 someone to go for the win (and he’s v good at 1v1s)

[Menalque]

Again, I’m not saying that I think that’s what’s happening, but more than you shouldn’t write off shirou!scum as a possibility because he’s locking the game off into a specific set of elims

[Menalque]

That said, I do think shirou’s whole approach so far has been v v +town so again, not really wanting to get into paranoia until/unless I’m forced to

[Menalque]

Shirou - I don't remember who they replaced

It was firebringer

[Menalque]

Mena - towniest town
Joqiza - y'all are sleeping on this scum
Auro - seems fine
Autumn Leaves - seems fine
chennisden - should have been the lim already
Flopz - seems fine
JohnnyFarrar - scum
Lilith2013 - tin foil scum of the year
Mathblade - town as hell
Shirou - I don't remember who they replaced

This is a very not helpful readslist if ur town, btw johnny

[Menalque]

And like I don’t think you can justify it as “town never gave me a fair shot” of u are town, because frankly you got like a million chances

[Menalque]

They couldn't know I would propose this plan

What, you mean the one firebringer suggested on page 1 of the scum PT?

[Menalque]

Do i seem bitter? I'm coo, boo. I'll play better after 8 hours of continuous sleep. Just hope that comes soon

Not if you’re scum you don’t, but if you’re town then kinda? Because your final readlist is too meme-y to actually be of any use in future days

[Menalque]

I think it would be stupid to offer that deal early even if you do reach sufficient confidence in it being winning, as opposed to just finding a remaining scum to kill in the next 2 days if Johnny scum

[Menalque]

Like if Johnny scum we still get 4 elims total

If you were that confident I’d seriously consider going for that on D4 if we didn’t hit on D2 or D3 because it solves my fears around chenn and you being buddies

But I’d much rather just lim scum tomorrow or on D3 if Johnny!scum, so if you can find that person then we don’t need to worry about sacrifice plays or anything

[Menalque]

I thought I would like Menalque posting in this game a lot more than I actually did reading up to page 83.

What did you not like about it?

[Menalque]

Better be careful y'all I'm definitely not scum

[Menalque]

I think that you should maybe reread my initial opening posts, right after I joined. I don’t disagree that’s the sort of move scum!me would make, but it’s not how I wanted to start and I think that’s fairly clear? My strong pushing in this case was reactive to what happened after I arrived (infinity’s bad faith push on me) rather than something I was doing from my first posts. Like, if I wanted to angle on infinity, why not enter scumreading him? Why put him in null/sort later?

And finally, idk if you’re talking about the chennis/AL about what I’m suggesting *now* or if that’s also referring to my earlier posts, but if it’s the latter isn’t the only reason you’re happy with that solve bc of my interactions with both slots as a result of my entry?

[Menalque]

@joqiza i actually do think what shirou is saying makes sense given the framework he’s locating it within. It comes down to the level of confidence in 1 scum in 3 slots, because if you are really confident in that then the game is in auto if you can find one more town as well as not be elimmed yourself, or two more if you can be elimmed

[Menalque]

And the fact he’s not angling very hard for himself to be in that is also good vibes

[Menalque]

Okay we can talk it out later.

To be frank Shirou if we keep Autumn alive I don't want you also in the block because I think he's scummy and I'm suspicious of your motivations in wanting him alive.

I think this would be an acceptable compromise but again, something I’d only really wanna do at lylo-1 because i do think shirou is probably town and removing them before lylo-1 and therefore also removing them from the group of people who can do scumhunting would be a mistake imo

[Menalque]

And finally, idk if you’re talking about the chennis/AL about what I’m suggesting *now* or if that’s also referring to my earlier posts, but if it’s the latter isn’t the only reason you’re happy with that solve bc of my interactions with both slots as a result of my entry?

I'm happy with your entry, but that doesn't mean I think the content is towny, I think it was very helpful to solve the game though

I don't know mena, I don't have any huge issues with your slot but if you were to ask me "do you've considerably confidence on mena being town, alone?", I couldn't answer a soundly yes without lying.

I do need to read 40 + pages though, I may become more comfortable with you.

That’s fine, I don’t necessarily need you to TR me individually if you’re advancing a strat that I think is still probably winning even if you’re wrong about where scum would be in the trio of (me/infinity/chenn)

[Menalque]

There was one post chenn made which was very insightful about why I’m town tho, and so you should look out for that as you go, i commented on it as being a v good understanding of the differences between my towngame and my scumgame

[Menalque]

what u reading mena town for chennisden

i dont think he does this kind of thing as scum here. dont think scum would scream "ME ME ME" like this

Infinity could be trying to mindmeld with lilith/chenn by trying to mimic train of thoughts aand get them pocketed. Which makes his soft distance push against me makes sense because he knows 1) i won't push him for doing that, and 2) he knows pocketting me means he needs to just give takes i will think are controversial

What an interesting twist.

this world is kind of possible.

i dont think he does this kind of thing as scum here. dont think scum would scream "ME ME ME" like this

This is a pretty good reason to townread me actually and more understanding than anyone has showed of the distinctions between my scumgame and my towngame in a

while

I mean, that doesn’t make you town, but kudos anyway

ur scumread on me is literally because ur annoyed at me

Oh, i found it, it’s these

But also I realised that some of the things I think i did that were towny hadn’t happened by where you’re at in the game, it’s so long that I was thinking they happened earlier than they did. So I think you might get to a higher confidence on town!me anyway as you keep catching up

[Menalque]

And I guess as an added cherry, if infinity /is/ town then with all 5 players being town, scum!hit would be guaranteed by D3

[Menalque]

Oh, actually, that’s really interesting. If there isn’t scum!hit by D3 then there’s conf!scum in the 5 person bloc

[Menalque]

It’s not necessarily a reason to deviate from the plan but it’s worth bearing in mind/is maybe a good reason to BoP shirou if no scum!hit in the first 3 days

[Menalque]

getting one mafia we get an extra elimination

This isn't true because of how black flag works. If we elim 4 townies we lose no matter what.

No, i think it is? He’s saying that if you hit scum within the first 4 days you’ve only elimmed 3/4 of your miselims, and you get another day to hit scum

[Menalque]

Basically, if the pool is right then even if you don’t hit scum until the 4th day you still get another day to hit the final scum you need

[Menalque]

The other unique way for me to win as scum here is if it's exactly Chennis + Me + one of Mena / AL.

Right, which is a little paranoia inducing to me but much less so if you’re willing to let yourself be a lamb before lylo

[Menalque]

Although if Johnny!scum then that may well be unnecessary

[Menalque]

Wow, mathblade hates the idea of a townbloc without him in it despite strongly advocating for townblocs earlier

Who’da thunk it?

[Menalque]

If you have a problem with it math, you need to attack the assumptions as incorrect

If the assumptions are correct, the conclusion follows

You’re just going “well why should we assume the assumptions are correct” when they look p good to me (I know there can’t be more than 1 scum in me/AL, and I strongly TR joqiza and lili, therefore if one more town can complete the bloc, the game is auto)

[Menalque]

I do think also that my interactions with Mena / AL are decently anti-partners until now unless you think I did mastermind this whole plan from the start. Which I guess I don't have anything to say, I just didn't.

It would be technically impossible for you to have masterminded it because the interactions that made it possible as a plan took place before you arrived in the game. So it would have to be something that one of me/fire/infinity came up with way earlier but then wasn’t used for ?? reasons and was only revived when you repped in

Which is just insanely unlikely

[Menalque]

or why you think AL / Mena are scum together when all their interactions in the game in my opinion point otherwise.

But that would require mathblade reading the game, shirou

[Menalque]

Hello friends

[Menalque]

VOTE: mathblade

[Menalque]

lld and i talked during the night a bit and while I’ll later share the rest for now she also believes that this is math!scum so can we just win the game pls

[Menalque]

Actually I’ll share what I guess are the main 2 things now:

(1) she thinks there’s approx a 10% chance that joqiza (the person most responsible for Johnny dying yesterday) was bussing

(2) she thinks that if we decide to do shirou’s plan from yesterday then it’s non-negotiable that shirou dies first, but then gets to pick the elims for the next 2 days

[Menalque]

She convinced me on (2) but I’m not really worrying about (1) (she wanted me to demand that we tell joqiza that he always gets limmed in lylo which is not a stance I’m willing to take, although as I’ve said before, I think everyone needs to be reconsidered in lylo if we get there and game isn’t over)

[Menalque]

Mena, I am curious as to whether Maria has kept up with the game.

Absolutely not in the slightest

[Menalque]

We did 160 pages yesterday auro, lmao

[Menalque]

Oh, I also think scum probably bussed which makes me more suspicious of (shirou/chenn/AL)

[Menalque]

I also also dislike Chenn’s attempts to take more cred than I think he deserves for johnny!wagon

[Menalque]

So I kinda forgot the game was happening, but I've played this setup a couple times in sitechat before, (and modded them, too) and usually it doesn't matter who gets flipped first, just because if you get town, you get a confirmed townie, and most of the time by the first couple minutes based on who's working with who and so on and so forth.

I get this setup mixed up a lot, though, with white flag( and also every time I skim this I think townies have an extra elim) which is why I posted like I did at end of D1. Let's flip mathblade and win this thing for the homies?

[Menalque]

There isn’t a math case, I linked her to... hang on, let me pull from the discord