Micro 829: The Coalition [Endgame]

[Aubrey]

If you don't think what I pointed out has more likelihood to come from town than scum, then say it instead of asking for a hard read.

[Irrelephant11]

mm I'd like to continue asking for a hard read, but thanks for the advice
does the town ping lead you toward a townread or no?

[Aubrey]

No, I clearly scumread him. I don’t understand how that is not clear. I’m not engaging with you on this any further.

[Irrelephant11]

wait you scumread him? That's definitely not clear, actually.
Why not engage me? Because I'm scum? Because you don't like my playstyle? Because you don't like me asking you to pin down a read? why?

[skitter30]

so I went and had a read of the initial iteration of this setup, and realised that the town made a seriously bad error.

. Nearly the entire coalition was difficult-to-read players.

Does anyone in this list feel as though their town and scum games are remarkably different?

HEAL: no lunch
VOTE: Irrelephant11

from my pov i think my town and scumgames are pretty different, but i'm also pretty good at getting townread as scum so i guess my opinion isn't super relevant here

wrt to the bolded - i haven't read that game - did town do this as a strategy on purpose, to like determine if there's scum in the hard-to-read players?

So just electing people who look like town is a far weaker strategy than forcing a pentotomy of players who are more readable in later phases.

so instead your goal is to put in people who are easy to read later on so that if the coalition is wrong we can at least focus on having an easier time sorting the people in it after the fact?

HEAL: no lunch

==

well, since a natural foe of mine is a midday lack of caloric replenishment, i am automatically suspicious
VOTE: no lunch

is this your first game?

==

@nsg i like the format of the vcs

==

to that end i'd suggest keeping your coalitions small with players you either genuinely trust or want to pretend you genuinely trust, instead of keeping them constantly populated at 5/5.

+1

==

My scumgame and towngame both get me widely townread in almost every circumstance
I'm town tho so there's that

@skitter I'm mostly experimenting with mechanics/RVS, is the answer to your question

HURT: My Milked Eek, no lunch
VOTE: no lunch

fair enough; i was mostly wondering why you had voted an entire coalition already

why are you voting no lunch and removing him from your coalition? i think he's quite townie imo

==

No, I clearly scumread him. I don’t understand how that is not clear. I’m not engaging with you on this any further.

this wasn't clear to me
now that i think about it this might be sarcasm but if it is it's hard for me to tell

[Aubrey]

this wasn't clear to me
now that i think about it this might be sarcasm but if it is it's hard for me to tell

........I hate both you and the elephant right now.

[Irrelephant11]

why are you voting no lunch and removing him from your coalition?

i think he's quite townie imo

yes, that's exactly why
So far no lunch has gotten quite a few townreads simply be providing some thoughts about the last game.
Getting townread hard and fast by providing IIOA is exactly how I would play earlygame as scum
It didn't even cross my mind this game (and I know I'm town), so it's not how I expect town to play at this stage

therefore...

@Aubrey, sarcasm is hard to read sometimes, especially since I actually

do

have no lunch as my biggest scumread right now. Having read my reasoning, what's your read on no lunch now?

[Aubrey]

Same as before. I do not read him as town because he talked about last game. I could care less about people talking about last game. What I quoted had everything to do with how he was going to handle the coalition.

[Irrelephant11]

ehhhhhhh that's fine I guess... (though imo strategy/setup/previous runs all fit into a "townread me! please!" early game scum would like to play here)

@skitter how do you read aubrey

[skitter30]

why are you voting no lunch and removing him from your coalition?

i think he's quite townie imo

yes, that's exactly why
So far no lunch has gotten quite a few townreads simply be providing some thoughts about the last game.
Getting townread hard and fast by providing IIOA is exactly how I would play earlygame as scum
It didn't even cross my mind this game (and I know I'm town), so it's not how I expect town to play at this stage

therefore...

@Aubrey, sarcasm is hard to read sometimes, especially since I actually

do

have no lunch as my biggest scumread right now. Having read my reasoning, what's your read on no lunch now?

so your'e saying he feels kinda LAMIST-y to you?
i was also thinking that it didn't really occur to me to check the previous game but i think the effort is kinda +town imo, especially for like page2 or whatever.

i'm still mulling over his suggestion and i'm not sure what i think about it
i def think that we should only judiciously add people to our coalition and not keep it at 5/5

i'm still not sure what sort of players i want in it
i guess i can understand the perspective that scum!him is just trying to look town enough to get into the coalition but rn i'm not super getting that vibe; i kinda feel like he's being kinda sincere and is trying to find the best way for town to approach the setup

idk it's something i'll keep an eye on

ehhhhhhh that's fine I guess... (though imo strategy/setup/previous runs all fit into a "townread me! please!" early game scum would like to play here)

@skitter how do you read aubrey

gutscum but i think it might stem from playstyle/personality differences and not actual scumminess

[Irrelephant11]

so your'e saying he feels kinda LAMIST-y to you?

umm sort of yeah

though in a different way than I would usually use that word for
Like I don't think he's pulling crap out of nowhere, I think he believes it is good strategy
I just think he's more likely to say it all as scum than as town
Especially because idk talking about "here's how we should all play this; it's pro-town" kinda signals to scum how to play this to get townread

If anything this game almost flips some of the normal D1 dynamics by making it more important for scum to look towny than it is for them to convince people that any particular player is scummy, and yes, I think no lunch is doing a lot of the first and none of the second and for now I scumread him for it

[skitter30]

If anything this game almost flips some of the normal D1 dynamics by making it more important for scum to look towny than it is for them to convince people that any particular player is scummy, and yes, I think no lunch is doing a lot of the first and none of the second and for now I scumread him for it

yeah i was thinking that this is a setup i wouldn't mind too much playing as scum since this is like what i'm actually good at as scum and how i play it basically, by looking town enough to get myself taken out of the lynchpool and not really by pushing mislycnhes

I just

think he's more likely to say it all as scum than as town

Especially because idk talking about "here's how we should all play this; it's pro-town" kinda signals to scum how to play this to get townread

i guess right now i'm not super seeing the bolded; like i'm not sure if he's really more likely to say it as scum than as town

[Gamma Emerald]

Why listen to possibilities from a game you and I won’t read? For that info to matter, we’d need deeper context to fully understand and even check their claims.

I don’t see reading it as necessary to understand how things went right or wrong? I didn’t read Civ mafia but I know what a train wreck that was.

[Aubrey]

Why listen to possibilities from a game you and I won’t read? For that info to matter, we’d need deeper context to fully understand and even check their claims.

I don’t see reading it as necessary to understand how things went right or wrong? I didn’t read Civ mafia but I know what a train wreck that was.

Do you have any questions for him on the matter that my disinterest is stopping you from asking?

[no lunch]

My scumgame and towngame both get me widely townread in almost every circumstance
I'm town tho so there's that

@skitter I'm mostly experimenting with mechanics/RVS, is the answer to your question

HURT: My Milked Eek, no lunch
VOTE: no lunch

Sorry Mr. Elephant, there is indeed nearly no chance I'll pass a coalition which you're on.
Elaborate on your experimenting with the mechanics/RVS for me? I believe you're thinking about this at a level deeper than you're presenting to us, so I'd like to know what the benefit of a random coalition suggestion and random hurts are.

Though if you do have a reason for hurting myself and the Eek without going into it I'd love to hear that as well!

oh that was an OMGUS? interesting. @nl why did you vote me?

Sorry to be difficult.
Why do you think I voted you?
Why did you choose to ignore every other part of my presence in the thread and focus on the vote? (passing a coalition is far more important than a lynch. while I agree votes carry a degree of accountability which is very valuable, I just find it strange that your focus was drawn here of all places?)

Also, once I see your response I will tell you why I voted you.

Aubrey, is no lunch town? y/n

A little concerning that you're trying to imply a scumread of me via Aubrey, but, I'd rather talk with you about the things I asked above. Though if I appear to be starting on the back foot with respect to sorting you, this action is a contributor.

If you don't think what I pointed out has more likelihood to come from town than scum, then say it instead of asking for a hard read.

No, I clearly scumread him. I don’t understand how that is not clear. I’m not engaging with you on this any further.

ah Aubrey, I like you a lot.
HEAL: Aubrey

[Gamma Emerald]

Why listen to possibilities from a game you and I won’t read? For that info to matter, we’d need deeper context to fully understand and even check their claims.

I don’t see reading it as necessary to understand how things went right or wrong? I didn’t read Civ mafia but I know what a train wreck that was.

Do you have any questions for him on the matter that my disinterest is stopping you from asking?

No. I don’t really see why he’d lie about it given anyone who felt so motivated

could

check the game for themselves. So beyond my initial confusion I don’t really think there’s anything to ask except specifics of what his gameplay involves, which he’s already put on the table it seems.

[no lunch]

from my pov i think my town and scumgames are pretty different, but i'm also pretty good at getting townread as scum so i guess my opinion isn't super relevant here

wrt to the bolded - i haven't read that game - did town do this as a strategy on purpose, to like determine if there's scum in the hard-to-read players?

They did not really have a strategy. It was largely townread players I think, though by the time the coalition passed the entire list felt so exhausted I'm not Eure they still had any idea what to do with the mechanic.

so instead your goal is to put in people who are easy to read later on so that if the coalition is wrong we can at least focus on having an easier time sorting the people in it after the fact?

Yes, exactly.
Naturally with the caveat that if an easy-to-sort player just appears to be scum, they will not be on the coalition.

Especially because idk talking about "here's how we should all play this; it's pro-town" kinda signals to scum how to play this to get townread

This doesn't feel consistent with what I did. I identified an error in the way this setup was previously ran, and offered an alternative perspective on how to solve it. I also asked everybody else to chime in with their perspectives. Anyone who has read the original running should certainly give me some feedback, particularly if they disagree.

I'll come back to why I'm not comfortable with what you're doing. I need coffee.

Why listen to possibilities from a game you and I won’t read? For that info to matter, we’d need deeper context to fully understand and even check their claims.

I don’t see reading it as necessary to understand how things went right or wrong? I didn’t read Civ mafia but I know what a train wreck that was.

That's probably a reasonable statement. I don't know anything about Civ Mafia, but in this situation we have the benefit of being in a smaller setup with incredibly nuanced mechanics.

Given The Coalition round 1 was a fairly quick read and I was bored while waiting for this game to fire, I decided to sink a few hours into it. Actually it was a very fun read, and the outside perspective on coalition wagonomics got me really excited for this round!

[no lunch]

I've actually decided not to go into it, quite yet. Not from a place of letting the Elephant dig his own grave, but I'm concerned if I case this too heavily I'll become tunnelled as soon as page 3.

Mr. Elephant, if you'd be comfortable addressing my last couple of posts and allowing me to have a look at how your wise wrinkly brain is processing all of this, I would be grateful.

[Chara]

no lunch is, ironically, a player i think will be very hard to read! :>

[Chara]

Gamma, tell me about your coalition so far? particularly about Aubrey and myself.

[Aubrey]

no lunch is, ironically, a player i think will be very hard to read! :>

Town ping.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, tell me about your coalition so far? particularly about Aubrey and myself.

You’re in because of the reason no lunch mentioned (readability), Aubrey I’m thinking about rn but I just put her in as a bit of a fun pick because I hadn’t played with him in a long time.

[Irrelephant11]

Yeah I mean a skitter/me team was my hope going into this

@NL I’ll answer questions tomorrow, that’s a lot of questions and I’m on mobile
Short version is idk if I really believe half the things I’ve said so far this game but I did indeed want to make everyone feel off balance
I don’t want scum feeling comfortable and I want townreads to be hard earned. It’s my best guess as to how to win D1

[no lunch]

Yeah I mean a skitter/me team was my hope going into this

@NL I’ll answer questions tomorrow, that’s a lot of questions and I’m on mobile
Short version is idk if I really believe half the things I’ve said so far this game but I did indeed want to make everyone feel off balance
I don’t want scum feeling comfortable and I want townreads to be hard earned. It’s my best guess as to how to win D1

I'll look forward to this, and try to fight the urge to speculate too much further while I wait.

[northsidegal]

-