Micro 829: The Coalition [Endgame]

[skitter30]

/conf

@nsg: regular v/la on fridays and saturdays

[skitter30]

[skitter30]

hello all!

VOTE: skitter30
HEAL: Gamma, Chara, My Milked Eek, no lunch, Irrelephant11

why these people?

==

HEAL: me

[skitter30]

so I went and had a read of the initial iteration of this setup, and realised that the town made a seriously bad error.

. Nearly the entire coalition was difficult-to-read players.

Does anyone in this list feel as though their town and scum games are remarkably different?

HEAL: no lunch
VOTE: Irrelephant11

from my pov i think my town and scumgames are pretty different, but i'm also pretty good at getting townread as scum so i guess my opinion isn't super relevant here

wrt to the bolded - i haven't read that game - did town do this as a strategy on purpose, to like determine if there's scum in the hard-to-read players?

So just electing people who look like town is a far weaker strategy than forcing a pentotomy of players who are more readable in later phases.

so instead your goal is to put in people who are easy to read later on so that if the coalition is wrong we can at least focus on having an easier time sorting the people in it after the fact?

HEAL: no lunch

==

well, since a natural foe of mine is a midday lack of caloric replenishment, i am automatically suspicious
VOTE: no lunch

is this your first game?

==

@nsg i like the format of the vcs

==

to that end i'd suggest keeping your coalitions small with players you either genuinely trust or want to pretend you genuinely trust, instead of keeping them constantly populated at 5/5.

+1

==

My scumgame and towngame both get me widely townread in almost every circumstance
I'm town tho so there's that

@skitter I'm mostly experimenting with mechanics/RVS, is the answer to your question

HURT: My Milked Eek, no lunch
VOTE: no lunch

fair enough; i was mostly wondering why you had voted an entire coalition already

why are you voting no lunch and removing him from your coalition? i think he's quite townie imo

==

No, I clearly scumread him. I don’t understand how that is not clear. I’m not engaging with you on this any further.

this wasn't clear to me
now that i think about it this might be sarcasm but if it is it's hard for me to tell

[skitter30]

why are you voting no lunch and removing him from your coalition?

i think he's quite townie imo

yes, that's exactly why
So far no lunch has gotten quite a few townreads simply be providing some thoughts about the last game.
Getting townread hard and fast by providing IIOA is exactly how I would play earlygame as scum
It didn't even cross my mind this game (and I know I'm town), so it's not how I expect town to play at this stage

therefore...

@Aubrey, sarcasm is hard to read sometimes, especially since I actually

do

have no lunch as my biggest scumread right now. Having read my reasoning, what's your read on no lunch now?

so your'e saying he feels kinda LAMIST-y to you?
i was also thinking that it didn't really occur to me to check the previous game but i think the effort is kinda +town imo, especially for like page2 or whatever.

i'm still mulling over his suggestion and i'm not sure what i think about it
i def think that we should only judiciously add people to our coalition and not keep it at 5/5

i'm still not sure what sort of players i want in it
i guess i can understand the perspective that scum!him is just trying to look town enough to get into the coalition but rn i'm not super getting that vibe; i kinda feel like he's being kinda sincere and is trying to find the best way for town to approach the setup

idk it's something i'll keep an eye on

ehhhhhhh that's fine I guess... (though imo strategy/setup/previous runs all fit into a "townread me! please!" early game scum would like to play here)

@skitter how do you read aubrey

gutscum but i think it might stem from playstyle/personality differences and not actual scumminess

[skitter30]

If anything this game almost flips some of the normal D1 dynamics by making it more important for scum to look towny than it is for them to convince people that any particular player is scummy, and yes, I think no lunch is doing a lot of the first and none of the second and for now I scumread him for it

yeah i was thinking that this is a setup i wouldn't mind too much playing as scum since this is like what i'm actually good at as scum and how i play it basically, by looking town enough to get myself taken out of the lynchpool and not really by pushing mislycnhes

I just

think he's more likely to say it all as scum than as town

Especially because idk talking about "here's how we should all play this; it's pro-town" kinda signals to scum how to play this to get townread

i guess right now i'm not super seeing the bolded; like i'm not sure if he's really more likely to say it as scum than as town

[skitter30]

They did not really have a strategy. It was largely townread players I think, though by the time the coalition passed the entire list felt so exhausted I'm not Eure they still had any idea what to do with the mechanic.

i was kinda thinking that as a strategy it's a fairly decent idea; a failed coalition can function as a semi-cop-check - there has to be scum in this group of 5 players

and you want to make it easier to figure out who scum is in a failed coalition by making all the players in it easy-to-read. so you're basically trying to make a long-term (ie not coalition-based) win easier since winning the game via coalition can be tricky since scum are incentivized to act townie (and if they don't they just lose!)

ok that makes sense and i think this is a workable idea

(sorry i just needed to talk it through to myself to 'get' what you were going for)

i thinik i've only played with irrel and gamma before tho and i don't think i can read either particularly well (also chara in my second game on-site and iirc they repped out halfway thru) so i don't super have anyone that i think i can read this way in this game rn

==

Short version is idk if I really believe half the things I’ve said so far this game but I did indeed want to make everyone feel off balance

this pings me a little bit :/

==

On my first read-through of the exchanges between elephant and aubrey, and the interspersed comments on their exchange from others, it felt like the tension escalated rather quickly; something feels off here. I'm going to take another look at that and will report back with my updated thoughts.

in the meantime, VOTE: aslightrain (ie me) for not properly using the voting tag earlier!

i'd liike to hear these updated thoughts - you're leaving it a little vague atm; like you think there may be scum in irrel v aubrey but you're not really taking a stance on who it is.

like instead of saying who scum is there you self-vote; i didn't super like your rvs vote either because there was actual content to engage with at that point

i didn't really get a tvs vibe from aubry v irrel

==

MME was the only one to not confirm, you’re my biggest scumread. I mostly use my vote to keep track of my biggest scumread at all times

huh, i thought nukaholic was the one to have not confirmed (and i think they haven't even posted yet? i imagine they'll be getting prodded/replaced shortly)

(and also a little bit because scum!skitter is the only scum I have reason to be afraid of).

flattered

==

a little bit guttown on gamma but idk why exactly

[skitter30]

Hi sky!

[skitter30]

Ye

You?

[skitter30]

Aubrey's getting a minor townread. maybe a step below elephant.

holding off on aslightrain until i see more because they have

that

posting style.

HEAL: Aubrey
HURT: elephant
sorry guys, really really tired. see you all tomorrow!

also hi Skygazer! :>

when you're less tired can you explain how your irrel read changed in between these posts?

also for people tr'ing chara can you explain why? i don't really feel like i've seen much ai from them

[skitter30]

i kinda read no lunch's idea more as: if the coalition fails we'd at least be able to read the people in it

like i understood it more as a plan to help town in late-game in case it fails since in the first iteration of this setup when people failed to pass a coalition they just lynched people in it (who were incidentally hard-to-read players and so town lost the game)

idk i haven't overthought it super much. i want to put in people i townread, and townread strongly at that

my main concern is that in a game this size idk if i'll townread 4 other people *that* strongly by the end of the day

p-edit i haven't read your intervening posts yet

[skitter30]

and on a second pass, i might actually like lightrain noting something odd in Aubrey/elephant but not knowing what conclusions to make with that.
scum can fencesit when they want to keep their options open. town also do it when they simply aren't sure!
and conversely i don't love how skitter called out the fencesitting. if skitter is scum then she'd also be the kind of harder to catch scum (like elephant, for example) that uses good logic that is objectively correct enough to be more difficult to pick apart.

ye that's basically how i play scum
i didn't like the fence-sitting followed by the self-vote

like they found somethign they didn't like but used their vote for something trivial

[skitter30]

i guess that post was more ideas on theory than any real conclusions besides Aubrey town.


skitter, why did you ask me that question in 101? i'd like to know your thought process.

cuz i hadn't really felt like i had much of a read on you either way but i remembered that you were townreading irrel kinda highly (the strength of which had also surprised me) so i was wondering what changed in between and i figured i could use that to start a convo with you

[skitter30]

i don't think you've done much ai + i don't think think i can read you super well after sneks

[skitter30]

HEAL: gamma

what are you liking about gamma?

i've now been asked about this twice. at some point i have to wonder if you read the intervening posts between 83 and 99. because i sure did, and oddly enough they affected both of my reads. ;>

i mean, yes, i understood that the intervening posts affected your reads; i was more wondering which/why they affected your reads

i don't think both of you are, but i do have to wonder if one of no lunch and skitter saw a read change and saw an opportunity to find some kind of contradiction?
skitter's answer in 109 does make sense.

not really looking for contradictions; more like i found a thread to poke at to start a convo

[skitter30]

what are you liking about gamma?

the way he flipped suddenly on no lunch then flipped back looks like it comes from town, like it shows early townie engagement imo

i thought the way he intially pushed back against no lunch after misreading the post was slightly +town in a generic sense since i feel like scum would have maybe read the post a bit better given that no lunch was proposing a plan that might adversely affect scum

however i also think that gamma in particular as scum might have just misread the post by accident anyways just from how i've seen him play in the past if that makes sense

yes, in retrospect it's more 118 that gave me the possible feeling.

what did you think of my answer?

it just kinda was
like i understand what you said and it makes sense and i don't really have anything else to say about it

i think my explanation was pretty satisfactory. :> i thought it was obvious that in the first post i was still townreading elephant,

and by the next i had reconsidered

. you compared the two posts to each other as though they couldn't coexist.

my question was to skitter, though, but i appreciate the answer nonetheless.

although i understood your answer to be that you were still townreading irrel to some degree at the time that you had hurt him, just to a lesser extent than you were townreading aubrey, and not enough to still be in your coalition

what are you thinking about no lunch?

[skitter30]

a little bit guttown on gamma but idk why exactly

So did this change, or can you better explain it now?

not really; it's just about the same

reading him on gut/tone has worked for me in the past (in my admittedly small sample size tbf)

it's not a strong read or anything; i don't super trust gut/tone reads that i can't explain but i kinda pay attention to them

(also i'm pretty sure he hasn't posted since i wrote that so i'm not sure what you think would have prompted a change)

==

Skygazer, skitter30, I hope you don't mind me being intrusive. What inspired you to play into this setup?

it looked like it would fill faster than games in other queues + i thought the mechanic was intriguing + nsg is a good mod + irrel was playing and i like playing with him

[skitter30]

(also i'm pretty sure he hasn't posted since i wrote that so i'm not sure what you think would have prompted a change)

Spoiler: Reason

i thought the way he intially pushed back against no lunch after misreading the post was slightly +town in a generic sense since i feel like scum would have maybe read the post a bit better given that no lunch was proposing a plan that might adversely affect scum

however i also think that gamma in particular as scum might have just misread the post by accident anyways just from how i've seen him play in the past if that makes sense

^ This just feels like it should be a null read to me than a slight push for town.

--

I personally am having trouble pin pointing how I feel about your slot.

i mean that particular thing felt nullish to me but the overall vibe i get is guttown

what's bothering you wrt my slot?

[skitter30]

what are you thinking about no lunch?

cannot for the life of me decide. you and no lunch both are players of the type i find difficult to read.
i think a lot of what no lunch is saying is right and makes logical sense. that's about all i can say about it.

eh that's fair

rn i think that the way no lunch thought about the previous iteration and came up with a plan and how he presented it seems pro-town and in good-faith and sincere

==

Let's chat about this later if I continue feeling perplexed. If we talk about it now, then your progression won't feel as organic to me.

fair enough!

[skitter30]

HEAL: chara

i think the real-time reactions + interactions was pretty townie on both ends - no lunch getting annoyed for chara's push and chara picking up on that immediately and the immediate flip of the read

[skitter30]

HEAL: skitter

she seems unconcerned with the fact that shes not in the majority coalition atm

and she entered with a self-heal which makes me think she's not concerned with looking eager to be on the coalition right off the bat

like that may seem contradictory but I feel like scum wouldn't want to enter with something that screams "hey pick me" like a self heal and i feel like in the game state we're in right now she would be trying to town tell more aggressively

(granted she could be scum with a widely townread player but eh)

i like to imagine that if i were scum here i'd be very very cognizant that looking like i'd want to be in the coalition would be a scumtell so i'd do my best to be as nonchalent about that as possible; idk if that's a good reason to townread me tbh

i do think i would instead be trying to towntell pretty hard

[skitter30]

I think I've seen you in a game when I was meta diving skitter30, so I would expect you'd be aware of her stronger skills as a scum player. Given that she is excellent at earning townreads, are you satisfied this play is outside of her abilities as scum?

Are you also satisfied that you'll be able to correctly read her later, should this coalition fail?

i'm not really outside of my scumrange rn imo

[skitter30]

I don’t really have a good reason other than I’d rather build a coalition of people I townread. I was shocked we could even vote ourselves, and kinda turned my nose up at it. I viewed it as someone voting for themselves to win a public choice competition, and I’ve never considered that a right thing to do personally, though I’m sure many would dissaggreee with me on that sentiment.

There might be a bit of ego also playing into it.

I am aware I’m going against my win condition here.

HEAL: aubrey

[skitter30]

Like you scumread that I wanted everyone off balance or that I *said* I want everyone off balance?

more that you said you weren't sure if you believed half the things you said - i felt like that sort of thing gives someone room to backtrack later

Wait, see, why isn't it pinging you that this is a majority of your read on the slot though? Like, I feel like every single part of the this could have been done pre-game by someone expecting to be town, and then when no lunch got a scum PM shared it all anyway and just posted a whole bunch about it to get townread
Like I guess I'm probably going overboard by saying it's scummy but I think you're wrong in saying those things are enough for a townread and that's one thing I wanted to get across by voting no lunch earlier

ok this is a fair point, that this is the main reason why i'm townreading him
i don't super strongly townread him outside of that (i feel like his convo with chara was +town for him but idk if i would independantly townread him for that)

my strongest townread rn is prob chara i think

Also I'm probably going to have to accept that I'm not going to be in the coalitions because I'm so unreadable on the whole (ftr I get scumread as scum way more often than I get scumread as town, which skitter can semi-attest to, but I'd say this as either alignment so I digress). Which makes this game an interestingly more-uphill battle fmpov. I accept the challenge.

well idk if i'm coalitioning you atm because you're unreadable in a general sense, more cuz i don't have a super strong read on you rn and read other people more strongly atm

this post makes me townread skitter a lot more than it makes me townread sky

why did that post make you vote sky?

[skitter30]

why should I have had you in my coalition in the first place? I RVS'd you there.
HEAL: chara, no lunch (I've decided neither of you are RC.... for now)

@skitter there's a sort of mild cog-diss with you saying "As scum I'd try to look like I didn't care if I was in the coalition" and then Healing Aubrey for saying "oh I don't want to be in the coalition"
Like do you think only you would think of that or

huh that's fair; i hadn't thought about it that way or realized i was being cog-diss (i guess that's kinda the point)

i guess that's such an ... original/unique perspective on not-voting for oneself
like it feels kinda sincere and stems from their feelings towards games and like what's fair/ethical

like idk i don't really feel like scum would see that as a barrier for self-voting; they'd just see at is as part of the game and a way to like get in a better position and their post just felt like he totally, sincerely, doesn't care about doing something he views as wrong/not-right to position himself better
does that make sense? idk how well i explained that

like it just felt very sincere

thinking about it now idk if it's impossible for that to come from scum but it just feels really townie to me

[skitter30]

scum have daychat
HURT: charaHURT: no lunch
I forgot I voted Aubrey near the beginning of that post but I'll stick with sky for now
though I wonder if our strategy is that our lynch should only ever be in the coalition? since that'll optimally be where scum is if the coalition fails?

why does scum having daychat affect these reads?

that convo felt super organic and i don't think that having daychat would really change that really

[skitter30]

skitter townreads in general all kind of make me nervous. she could easily be town, but there's really nothing in that ISO that i would say scum skitter couldn't do. it's just too risky for me to want that in the coalition.

i have some other reads but it's probably better if i wait for some more replies to everything before getting overexcited.

still think elephant is more likely town than not, and the follow-up post right before mine there does soften some of the bad feelings i just had, but not enough to put him in the coalition.

yeah that's fair
i don't think i towntold that strongly yet for me

[skitter30]

Also despite not mentioning me or quoting any of my posts Irrel removed me from his bloc
Weird? Kinda feels a bit scummy.
VOTE: Irrelephant

this feels like a really surface-level reason to scumread him + kinda like overconcerned about being in his block

[skitter30]

I feel like you removing me from your bloc could be you reacting to me being widely chosen as a member by trying to reduce the consensus on me

this is a really interesting perspective because i hadn't been regarding you as a widely chosen member

huh i looked at the vc again and you were in 4 people's apparently

but he's gone back - and - forth on no lunch and chara, who both i'd regard as being more townread than you so idk why you're applying this logic to him hurting you in particular and not to him hurting chara and no lunch

[skitter30]

that post didn't make me vote sky, quoting that post had little to do with my follow up vote on sky

ok, why'd you vote sky?

[skitter30]

also i agree on Aubrey. was townreading him before that

but it is a unique perspective that i think is moee likely for scum to think to fake.

and

as scum i don't believe Aubrey would view it as "cheating" in the same way, of that makes sense.

pedit: at this point i feel like i'm using you, skitter, more to read elephant and Skygazer. i agree with a lot of what you're saying (and our coalitions match, sans your presence in mine), and i want to townread you, but i don't trust it enough yet because i think you're good enough to fake it.
don't know what the point of this was except to say i'm not against you.

i was also thinking the bolded but i was trying to figure out how to articulate the italics and forgot to put that in

um idk if you should depend on me to read irrel and sky
i've played with them both i think like 3 times or so now, but i don't have a super great track record reading either

[skitter30]

I’m kinda shocked people are thinking it’s town. I was halfway figuring i’d get fed to the sharks for it or at least get trepidation from it. When Skitter healed me, I was really shocked.

idk it felt super super town to me

this post also feels town to me

[skitter30]

I answered this in my 206

yeah sorry, i hadn't read that far when i wrote that; i thought your response made sense

[skitter30]

if the coalition fails, there's 0 or 1 scum in the remaining four, and 1-2 in the coalition. we still have to catch both of them.
i'm not planning on constraining my post-coalition hunting if we fail, except as a way to think about scumteams and how they might be arranged.

Gamma: why would scum elephant be threatened by one townblocked townie?

See, I get the feeling from Irrelephant's posting that he is worried about every townblocked townie.

He is shading us, shading Aubrey, shading Skygazer, shading Gamma, need to check skitter.

I think scum-Irrelephant may actually include his buddy in the group of people be shades, if at all possible. It still does not present as though he genuinely townreads anyone.

i wasn't super getting this feeling from him tbh
i don't remember him shading sky
i don't think he was shading gamma, but rather saying he didn't like his play
i think his reading of my play is fair given past history + i'm pretty sure he read that scumgame of mine that you referenced
i don'tk now if he was shading you/chara either, more so thinking aloud wrt how he felt about your convo yesterday

i don't know if he super strongly townreads anyone yet; i'm not sure it's a problem that 'it does not present as though he genuinely townreads anyone'

[skitter30]

or maybe more accurately - i'm not sure if him not having very strong townreads is the same thing as 'does not present as though he genuinely townreads anyone'

[skitter30]

@Irrelephant11, with reference to Chara's 248, how does this fit into your own perception of your scum meta?
Is this the type of fight you can see yourself picking as scum?

pedit: I don't normally play as much in real time, either. Strong list.

yes! i like this playerlist

[skitter30]

It feels difficult to believe that you believe a majority of what you're posting, yet you're just standing your ground and defending yourself. There's nothing likeable or sortable here.

idk i kinda think he believes what he's saying, partially believe he's been standing his ground
i don't think he's shuting you down really
and i'm kinda getting the vibe that you're looking for reasons to scumread him almost

I suppose there is a separate angle which I could bend myself to view your actions in a more positive light from, but I don't actually have any incentive to view them from this angle in the real world.

partially because of this ^^^^^

and 253 feels kinda reachy to me, especially the last paragraph and almost like negating his townreads? and like calling his play 'not strong' - idk if i objectively agree with that, but even if that's true, i'm not sure that is inherently a reason to call it reachy? like people don't play optimally/strongly quite often; doesn't mean that they're reaching

idk something feels a little off on your end with your convo with him but i'm still trying to work out what's bothering me

[skitter30]

Fantastic response

. Sorry for the infrequency of my posts. In transit and the connection is very wobbly.

I have been sitting on the train thinking about Irrelephant. I'm not sure I'm sold on townreading him yet, but I'm definitely seeing where I've been stupid.

^^^^ i'm also getting a little bit of a buddying vibe from you to chara

==

i think Gamma is highly sortable, but he needs pressure for that. as of right now i wouldn't call the game on him being town and i'm scumleaning him.

for that spot i want to see what aslight and Eek have to say. and also i would consider skitter over Gamma if we take out the null slots.

i'd be down to wagon him (not lynch him yet tho obvs)

==

If you can show me where I'm graveingly mistaken here Skitter, please do so! As you're a slot that is causing me turmoil to judge.

Like, I don't recall her really being the first to say I like X or I don't like X on any of the reads...it always seemed once a few people were of a general consensus that it was safe to join the read unless specifically questioned.

i'm not entirely sure what you expect me to respond to this or how you want me to show you that you're gravely mistaken

i don't particularly think this is accurate (ie i'm not purposely molding my reads to match those of others) and i don't particularly think it's inaccurate either (ie some of my reads do indeed overlap with others)

==

hi havent read anything that happened today because i had a surprise midterm followed by a date

i hope the midterm and date went well

==

[skitter30]

cool, i think a50 is prob town

HEAL: a50

^^^^ this is my fifth person
idk if i want to remove anyone right now but just be careful for like hammering purposes etc

[skitter30]

Hi guys.
I've skimmed the thread.

I'd like to reread a bit more in detail, but I can already heal a few players from whom I've gotten townvibes.

HEAL: MME, no lunch, chara, gamma

For my 5th heal I'm looking at irrelephant or skitter. What I noticed the most about irrelephant is his hurt for me. It was for a reason that wasn't true. I don't think scum would have used that as a reason to hurt me, simply because it was a reason that could easily be disproven. Feels like hasty town. And skitter gave me good vibes initially, but it might be my waning attention span, but I don't remember much of their later posts.

I'll do a more focused read and go into their iso's tonight.

i'm most intrigued by your gamma heal

please explain that when you have a chance!

[skitter30]

pedit: skitter that quick heal vote has... kind of made me extremely nervous. go into that?

idk i'm good at reading him and his opening post + post about irrel feel town for him

(8 games now and i only got him wrong in the first game i played with him and the game he was on an alt that i didn't know was him; i could pull up the various iterations of this post i made regarding his meta and my history of reading as the list of correct reads grew longer)

[skitter30]

(yes i've literally had him correct off of like two posts before)

[skitter30]

i'm starting to become a little wary of no lunch
i'm not sure if enough to unheal him

but his irrel push feels a little ??? insincere and forced and fabricated, like he wanted to scumread him

and i'm starting to pick up some buddying vibes of chara

[skitter30]

viewtopic.php?p=10453448&user_select%5B ... #p10453448
sorry, it was more like seven posts from him

but i had it right in like 34 so that's pretty good, right?

[skitter30]

huh and my first post in that iso was 'guttownpings from a50 thus far' in post 11

[skitter30]

uh it takes a little longer but brass's pick your poison is hte example that i call to mind (ie i started day2 trying to get him lynched)

it's more like a lack of the townie things over a longish period of time that i eventually realize is lacking than something i actually scumread him for

mutant's jungle republic too (although i think ihad him there almost on replace in?)

i think brass's game above is the last we were tvs but i may be forgetting something at the moment

[skitter30]

HURT: no lunch
VOTE: gamma

[skitter30]

@skitter30, just reviewing your game history with Almost50 it appears you've played together twice. I did this via mobile so might have missed something. Could you please let me know if you have played together before?

Open 711: Stack the Deck
Open 713: Jungle Republic

open 711 - tvt, first game with him; i misread him as scum

open 713 - t v mafia; multiball; had him as some flavor as scum pretty much as soon as he repped in

brass's pick your poison - tvt he played on his ap alt; i scumread him initially midway through the game i figured out ap = a50 and i had him as town immediately once i figured it out

arcangel's jungle republic - ap game; t v wolf; overnight between day1 and day2 i figured out i wasn't townreading him and started day2 trying to get him lynched

splatoon mafia - tvs - he played on the alt jjd and i didn't know it was him and read him wrong but i don't really count this

teacher's diffusion of power - tvt, that's the one i linked earlier, had him on page2 as town

the worst's pick your posion x|y - ap game, svs

[skitter30]

If I had to take a guess, and we all threw out our votes, I bet a wagon would form between Gamma and Sky

(maybe NL by the sound of things but whatever)

My initial like about Sky was their read on Gamma. I liked the fact they brought up a read that nobody else had mentioned by that point. I don’t see scum TR’ing Gamma that early, unless they are partners.

i'm feeling a little wary/paranoid about the general consensus regarding milked/gamma/sky not being townread

[skitter30]

For the record, since Skygazer has effectively given up by the looks of things

: skitter30 has exhibited some anti-scum-skitter tells through this game. I flatly refuse to go into what they are until Skygazer has returned, but my heal on her was neither whimsical nor an attempt to bait scum.

i'm not sure that i like that you framed 'not being active for a few days' as 'effectively given up'

[skitter30]

I feel dangerous, by having skitter this high. I believe that she has exhibited tells which, for her, are non-scum indicative. I'm sorry that I have not been forthcoming with a full explanation of this, but I believe it is still beneficial for me to try to engage Skygazer on this subject before heavily towncasing skitter (if a town case is necessary!)

i'm kinda interested in this; i think it's interesting to learn how/why people read me the way they do

HURT: no lunch

wow all ur null and below are lynch bait

i mean i think she has a point with this; the concensus non-townreads are people who are often perceived as lynchbait

and i feel a little ???? wary about that

[skitter30]

You liked the fact that skitter did not appear concerned with being in the winning coalition.
Do you believe this would be difficult for scum-skitter to fake? Do you believe that scum would show their hand by trying to wedge their way directly into the coalition--particularly with skitter's level of skill?

if my opinion is relevant, i don't think scum!me would have trouble looking unconcerned about not being in the winning coalition

like i might actually be concerned but i can project being not-concerned if that makes sense

[skitter30]

I would be less concerned had the game where she pocketed you in spite of your own neighbourhood not been so recent...

i guess i'm a little confused why you're telling sky she should be paranoid of me but you're not really being that paranoid of me rn?

did you read the entireity of that game?

[skitter30]

i mean

two dimensional logic sounds a lot like my towngame

the towntell that I'll state publicly (because I hinted at this earlier) is t

own skitter tends to be paranoid of easy townreads in her from my experience

this is fair i think

[skitter30]

@Aubrey: I won't even ask you to include me. Just pick Irrelephant and skitter and I will give you my vote.

^^^^^ feels very town too

[skitter30]

let's play a game called: am i unwilling to townread Sky because she's scummy, though i'm mildly townreading her last string of posts with Almost,

or am i most suspicious of her because she's the only player who doesn't have me in her coalition?

381 pinged me though. "i'm playing to my town meta, somebody notice that!"
if you recognize your own logic as two-dimensional, are you happy with continuing that line of logic?

pedit: no way! i'm not done yet. i'd love to immediately win.

why does this make you suspicious of her?

[skitter30]

@Gamma: Can I convince you to HURT no lunch and HEAL me & Irrelephant instead?

Yeah I can
HEAL: Almost50 but idk why no lunch shouldn’t be in/Irrel should?

meh maybe you're town too

[skitter30]

mannnnn I feel like I have good reason to townread chara here but I also feel like he is a little too *on my side*
/paranoia

Why is Gamma collecting votes? I'm not sure he deserves them
pedit: Chara have you played with Gamma before?

i have to admit i'm feeling a little bit paranoid of chara too but i don't really think i can quantify how/why rn

like it's kinda gut but it's making me hesitant/wary/????

[skitter30]

skitter are you still as confident as you were upon rep in that A50 is town
Do we think chara has any chance to be scum?

yeah i'm pretty confident he's town. feels kinda too agressive if scum sorta

i'm a little paranoid of chara. i don't like scumread them really but i'm a little ???? about completely trusting them

[skitter30]

i mean i think she has a point with this; the concensus non-townreads are people who are often perceived as lynchbait

and i feel a little ???? wary about that

for me it's because it's dangerous to have lynchbait in the coalition. it'd be different if one of them was being very towny.
we can afford some scummy town (two, actually).

i mean yeah but it kinda makes me feel like the consensus scumreads are lynchbait

i know that ti's a little more nuanced than that (it's not that the consensus scumread are lynchbait but rather that the consensus not-townreads are lynchbait) but it feels a little wrong/weird

[skitter30]

@skitter: time for you to heal Irrel, btw. Trust me.

uh ok

HEAL: irrel

[skitter30]

pedit: it doesn't really, skitter. Sky wasn't actually the only player not townreading me until very recently in the game, it was mostly a joke.

sorry, didn't realize it was a joke

[skitter30]

@skitter: NOW is your time to win us this game. HEAL IRRELEPHANT PLEASE

uh sorry, i think you were going for something and i didn't get there in time

i was reading in order and i don't really read the p-edits in between

[skitter30]

also

UNVOTE: gamma[\unvote]

[skitter30]

also

UNVOTE: gamma[\unvote]

whoops

UNVOTE: gamma

[skitter30]

also

UNVOTE: gamma[\unvote]

whoops

UNVOTE: gamma

UNVOTE: gamma

[skitter30]

don't know what to do about the paranoia. not surprised it exists? just being the most townread player (or one of?) would probably invite it.

I mean yes this is definitely a big part of why, for me anyway. Either we're nearing gamesolve or you're scum or {skitter, A50} is the scumteam fmpov so I'm trying to sort out if the second and third possibilities are at all likely

skitter: is "confidence" all there is to the A50 townread? Someone (you?) said he's bold as scum. Would you bet the game on town!A50 at this point?

pedit: but why Aubrey tho

uh honestly idk if i can ever really describe what makes town!him town
he just feels like town him

am i like 100% confident? no
but i'm prob most confident on him than anyone else

[skitter30]

i said he's bold as scum. he's bold always, it's a major character trait. and he's not fearful of retribution as either alignment,

it's not bold exactly

more like being aggressive, not being afraid to make waves, sincerity, not-caring-how-he's-perceived

there's like a certain 'drive to win while also not giving a fuck about what people think about him' that he has when he's town

[skitter30]

it's not the 5 players with the most votes, it's the coalition group with the most votes. my coalition would never stack with one that doesn't include Gamma for the purposes of a coalition hammer, no matter how many other players match.

pedit: it's none of those i believe. read the first run of this game.

^^^ i thought it was this

[skitter30]

@skitter30 do you think you would agree with this sentiment? How do you read this coming from Skygazer?
As an aside, this did come after your heal on skitter, which does slightly defeat the purpose of this exercise..

uh i don't remember the post in question

i remember talking to her about how i bus (ie that i know how ot make it look realistic)
i remember scumreading her for townreading me because i thought iwas premature

i don't explicitly remember why i thought it was premature

tha'ts not to say she's wrong, that's just to say i don't remember that particular interaction off-hand and that i'd have to go back and check

idk if scum!me woudl question townreads as much to try to look town or would just appreciate that they were a thing and try to maintain them. in a regular setup probably the latter, in this setup maybe the former but idk

in 737 i just took all the townreads and didn't question them too much

[skitter30]

i think it's a fair approach from her, it kinda makes sense given past games

i don't particularly think it's impossible to fake either

[skitter30]

oh and it's not 5 people with 5 votes each, either. it has to be 5 identical coalitions. that's the hammer condition.

mod could you confirm/deny this?

that's why she's marking identical coalitions.

i was under the impression that this is the hammer condition

[skitter30]

Chara. skitter, Irrelephant, A50, Aubrey. I could switch you/me with Gamma if needs be, provided that gets a majority.

i'm feeling a little ???? about chara rn actually
it's probably just paranoia but yeah

[skitter30]

no lunch, how do you view metareads?

[skitter30]

Chara. skitter, Irrelephant, A50, Aubrey. I could switch you/me with Gamma if needs be, provided that gets a majority.

i'm feeling a little ???? about chara rn actually
it's probably just paranoia but yeah

This makes me sad
I wanted this feeling to just be me

I don't love how he wants Gamma in the coalition off of gutfeel when he's otherwise been so cautious with healing, and imo it reads like scum trying to bring mislynch-bait into the coalition last-second to make it easier post-coalition-hammer to avoid being lynched
But also that's basically the only agenda ping I'm getting from him and otherwise I did think he was probably town

eh their thoughts about gamma were kinda similar to mine and happened at kinda the same time so that doesn't bother me too much

it's like a gut thing. idk i'll try to explain i guess
like i guess i'm feeling a little bit like they want to townread? or that they're trying to be townread? and it doesn't feel entirely sincere to me?

+ maybe a little bit that a50 hasn't been super solid on them

i feel like that doesn't completely describe it but i'm not sure what else is bugging me atm

[skitter30]

no lunch, how do you view metareads?

With glaring hypocrisy..... I believe they provide constraints of reality around which to read a player, but are liable to fall down when it comes to strong reliable accurate tells.

For instance, I think it is appropriate to acknowledge your strengths as scum when attempting to townread you.

Is there a reason why you ask?

basically im leading up to: how much weight do you give to me/chara a bit saying he's town?

[skitter30]

@no lunch: I'm here. Hit me

Ka-pow!

Firstly as context to anything we talk about, I believe you are scum-siding by suggesting we rush a coalition. 7v2 mountainous is a scum-sided setup, so the pentotomy of the coalition is all that we have.

Secondly, I have done an awful job of parsing your posts so far but I'm having a hard time pinning down how you actually feel about things past making tonnes of noise and rushing a coalition.

So in isolation my read of you is trending south of null.


Just out of interest, what is your take on Skygazer?

also this might be a weird thing to say but i feel like this is a little bit trying to look for the scummy side of his actions
and that you're like trying to frame it as scummy: 'making tonnes of noise'

[skitter30]

Almost50, what do you think about the idea of padding the coalition with players who are easier to read, in that instance? I would suggest something along the lines of:
Chara
skitter30
Skygazer
Gamma Emerald
can't think of a fifth off the top of my head.

wait since when am i easy to read?

[skitter30]

also kind of worried skitter is piggybacking off of elephant's paranoia of me. i guess you'd call that counter paranoia.

and skitter unvoted Gamma around the same time i did. i'd assumed she saw the same thing in his towny responses.
why did you unvote Gamma, skitter?

he kinda gut-pinged me as town and like trying ot contribute
don't think i can describe why better

(i think i may have brought up the paranoia thing first last night but it is entirely possible that i am mistaken in the ordering)

[skitter30]

it's like a gut thing. idk i'll try to explain i guess
like i guess i'm feeling a little bit like they want to townread? or that they're trying to be townread? and it doesn't feel entirely sincere to me?

you should feel like that, because i am trying to be townread.
you're wrong about it being insincere, though. :>

i am glad you brought up your Gamma read in response to this, though.

yeah i was thinking that idk if that's inherently scummy
but it's feeling a little wrong/scummy/paranoia-inducing to me kinda

[skitter30]

basically im leading up to: how much weight do you give to me/chara a bit saying he's town?

If you are both confident you have a read on him and can confirm you believe that town-Almost50 plays as though he has an agenda and would intentionally deflect my efforts to sort him via forcing deeper thought in real-time interactions, I would value that read.

Don't have a metric for reading Almost50 at the moment.

also this might be a weird thing to say but i feel like this is a little bit trying to look for the scummy side of his actions
and that you're like trying to frame it as scummy: 'making tonnes of noise'

Absolutely. I intended to put him on edge for that discussion (he just toppled over rather than talking, unfortunately).

i guess it's more that i don't think scum!a50 plays this way

and i guess i'm kinda seeing a pattern of you framing things negatively and that strikes me as as kinda scummy

[skitter30]

becaue i feel like you're using rhetoric to cast things in a negative light and make them look scummier than they actually are

[skitter30]

skitter: ignore this if i'm asking you to do something you hate, but if you don't hate it, could you take a look at my approach in Purgatory mafia? if yes i'll get the link.

sure

probs won't happen till like later today or tomorrow maybe

[skitter30]

@EVERYONE: What does the fact I'm not including X in my candidates to be in coalition tell you about my read on X?

that you don't strongly townread them

(or at least, not enough to be the wincon on)

[skitter30]

your continued posts here are making me kind of reconsider the paranoia though. i don't know. i might have gotten it into my head that your scumgame was really good to the point that i can't townread you without second-guessing it, in spite of you doing things i feel are towny this game.

i mean i think this is a fair approach; i play scum by getting townread and pocketing the right people;

i don't know if my scumgame is *that* good (like i feel ike people think i'm stronger scum than i acutally am + i don't know how much i can replicate what i did now that people know what to expect) but i'm good at projecting town so like i understand why people are paranoid of me in this setup

[skitter30]

becaue i feel like you're using rhetoric to cast things in a negative light and make them look scummier than they actually are

Why do you think I'm doing this?

that sort of rhetorical technique makes me think you're trying to make people look scummy, making it easier to get other people to scumread them (and thus ultimately get mislynched and in this setup in particular not be in the coalition)

[skitter30]

uh idk? i obviously dont have a baseline to check your play here against

like that is a tactic people use; i have no way of knowing whether or not this is or isn't a thing you'd do as scum or on an alt account

also i think it's kinda subtle, but i've noticed it fairly consistently (you did it with irrel, sky, and now a50)

also idk if it's something you're doing on purpose, and if it is idki if you were like planning/expecting to get called out given that it *is* subtle

[skitter30]

like maybe it's just a rhetorical technique that you use to convince people in general when you try to convince people of things
but your reaction seems to imply that you understand why i view it as scummy and that it's something a little ???? for town to do

[skitter30]

uh idk? i obviously dont have a baseline to check your play here against

like that is a tactic people use; i have no way of knowing whether or not this is or isn't a thing you'd do as scum or on an alt account

also i think it's kinda subtle, but i've noticed it fairly consistently (you did it with irrel, sky, and now a50)

also idk if it's something you're doing on purpose, and if it is idki if you were like planning/expecting to get called out given that it *is* subtle

I haven't been trying to be subtle about approaching people as though their actions have negative ramifications and they need to be accountable for them. Applying the converse wording of "treating other players like they are scum until they prove me wrong", I still have not been trying to be subtle.

maybe subtle isn't exactly the right word
i meant: you're using rhetoric to make people look scummier than they are

i meant subtle in the sense of: in addition to calling people scummy, you're more implying it by using negative-sounding wording

[skitter30]

I think skitter has the same list as mine

i honestly don't know what my coaition is atm

i think: me, irrel, chara, you, aubry?

[skitter30]

i feel like i townread nearly everyone
i'm not sure if that means this is a really strong town or if there's a really strong scum who's befuddling everyone

MME is maybe lynchbait? or if he's scum, is actively playing against wincon

[skitter30]

yeah that's a fair pov; lurkers do tend to get a pass in the hopes that they will get replaced

and it's entirely possible that scum is just lurkers

it just makes the gamestate feel kinda ???? weird and wrong

[skitter30]

More interested in spreading dirt than looking for town incentive basically (Remember my worry about you locking horns). A worry that could easily be put onto NL too.

this is pretty much exactly the vibe i got from no lunch's negatively framing things, that he was trying to make people look scummy and that he wasn't really interested in looking for town motivation

here's only one lurker so i don't believe it's that.

i want to avoid falling into the paranoia trap because we're all assuming the coalition can't all be town, either.

oh and elephant: i was worried about not being townread because i envisioned a scenario where i'd be mislynched out of paranoia if the coalition fails. that's part of why i really really want it to just go through.

by lurkers i meant: mme, sky to a certain extent, and even gamma maybe. i know that sky and gamma aren't exaclty lurking; maybe a better word choice would have been: people hwo aren't as active and present as me/you/a50/no lunch/aubrey

there's posts casting doubt/paranoia on the coalition, but i'm not seeing skitter do much about it. elephant has had specific qualms with my play; as far as i can see with skitter, she continues to describe it as a "???" kind of feeling.
she's engaged no lunch a lot, but no lunch isn't in the coalition. what's she doing to figure out where we might have gone wrong, if we even have?
she's already in, so now her focus could be, as scum, on winning the remainder of the game. she needs mislynches. i get the sense she's more preparing for that instead of trying for us to win right now.

a) i'm focusing on another game because of [redacted] atm and i'm letting this one slide into the background a little bit (and this was really just wrt yesterday and today irl).

b) i kinda disagree that you're saying if i were scum here 'my focus would be on winning the remainder of the game' (ie that it sounds like you think i'd be focusing on the long-term) - if i were scum my focus would be on like trying to maintain the townread to ensure i didn't immediately lose the game; i could focus on winning the game after. we talked about this a lot - i don't particularly look for mislynches as scum; i that's not what my strength is; i just kinda let them happen. i pocket people instead.

why is scum!me looking for mislynches outside of the coalition and/or why am is pushing no lunch, who isn't in the coalition, problematic? I think he's scummy. i'm actively trying to sort him and figure out if what i don't like is playstyle or like actually scum-indicative.

i mean, yes, the gamestate feels a little wonky with this many people being strong town, and yes, i'm noting that.

c) i'm very, very, very confident a50 is town. i think irrel is townie for him (reminder to say things when i can say them) + i'm sheeping a50 a bit. aubrey tonally feels really really really good.

i don't have much reason to doubt any of these people

with you i also tending town. yes, i'm acknowleding that i'm paranoid. it's not a feeling i can specifically consciously describe; if i could have better, i would have. it's like an overarching feeling that you want to be townread that's making me a little nervous. you've acknowledged that you're doing that.

i don't know if it's actively scummy (which i think i noted the firt time i said this) though because you seem to be the sort of player who cares *a lot* about being townread as either alignment (i'm getting that from the bolded in the quote above and other similar quotes that i can pull up from elsewhere), so i don' tknow if it's actively a reason for me to townread you, but it does make me wary. that's the main thing that's bothering me and i odn't know how to diffrentiate between this being a playstyle thing from you rn or a scum thing from you rn

I think skitter has the same list as mine

i honestly don't know what my coaition is atm

i think: me, irrel, chara, you, aubry?

and this post pinged me in particular for... not really seeming to care about the exact list.

i thought it was those people but i was feeling a little lazy about actually going and checking since there wasn't a recent vc and i figured if i posted what i thought to be my list a50 would verify it for me either way since he was keeping track

Oh, let me rephrase that: ASSUMING Sky is scum, and ASSUMING her partner isn't a strong candidate for the coalition; how would you expect her to respond?

try to towntell
i don't really get the vibe that she's trying to towntell, which i think is slightly town-indicative for her maybe? not sure

(hedging a little bit because [redacted]; this is more a note to come back to this train of thought at some point)

if she were scum and her partner were in the coalition i'm not sure she would necessarily try/care as much?

[skitter30]

cool cool

i'll be around a little later if you want to talk; i need to run some errands now

(i also think that writing walls is more conducive for me to explain what i'm thinking than in real-time because then i'm trying to multi-task by thinking and reading and writing and responding and i tend to overlook some things; real-time tends to move too fast for me to get everything that i want to say out; that happened a little yesterday irl when the thread was active for a few hours and i hadn't really sat down and read through it again in depth yet)

[skitter30]

basically just that i haven't read the last 10 pages or so in depth so i'm kinda just saying whatever comes to mind

[skitter30]

like i kinda read everything and responded ot things that i saw happening but didn't like synthesize a big picture of what's happening what really if that makes sense and i like need to actually take the time to reread things for that to happen and i haven't yet

[skitter30]

a) i'm focusing on another game because of [redacted] atm and i'm letting this one slide into the background a little bit (and this was really just wrt yesterday and today irl).

i do have time for this part: why does being busy mean the coalition part of the game is in the background, but you still have lots of time to push no lunch and talk about your own scum meta/reply to posts like these ones from me?

pedit: i'll be around later too, leaving now. i'm pretty much the opposite regarding walls so bear with me.

like it's not that that i don't have time or that i'm not paying attention but rather for like the last day or so i haven't read it all in one sitting to process the game the way you want me to so i'm just saying what i'm noticing about if that makes sense
and to figure out exactly what's bothering me about you i'd need to iso you and isolate the exact posts that are bothering me and i haven't done that yet

like it's more like i'm noting things in thread that are bothering me to take note of, kinda like a reminder as to what needs research to check and figure out. which will happen soonish, but not in the last day or so

bleh idk if i described that well at all

[skitter30]

OK, let me try: skitter is communicating in realtime. She's not lagging behind and making big @$$ catch up posts. That's town!her. She's nor being conservative and isn't focused on her own image either. When she's scum she tried to look town. When she's town it comes out naturally. Hmm.. come to think of it.. her playstyle is somewhat similar to yours. You might as well read her posts as if you wrote them and think if that would be town!you or scum!you.

scum skitter tends to fall behind?

as for the rest: hm. thank you. can i blame you if scum skitter wins this?

no, just avoid engaging people and i do that by wallposting everything at once

[skitter30]

ye very much so
and i avoid it whenever i possibly can

i can't really make up real-time bullshit to questions or swivel opinions naturally or like come up fake reasoning on the spot

i'm very very very careful and methodological and try to present as being very willing to answer anything, which i can do... so like as i have time to think of an answer first and don't have to respond in like real-time

[skitter30]

b) i kinda disagree that you're saying if i were scum here 'my focus would be on winning the remainder of the game' (ie that it sounds like you think i'd be focusing on the long-term) - if i were scum my focus would be on like trying to maintain the townread to ensure i didn't immediately lose the game; i could focus on winning the game after. we talked about this a lot - i don't particularly look for mislynches as scum; i that's not what my strength is; i just kinda let them happen. i pocket people instead.

kind of missed my point here. as town i'm saying i'd expect your focus to be on players like me, but most of our interaction has felt like i've been initiating it. am i wrong?
"maintaining the townread" is kind of a nebulous concept, you could be doing that by continuing to scumhunt.

i don't find it strange to be pushing no lunch.

regarding my own meta: like i said if you have time and like to read old games i gave you a link.
it is worth nothing i've never been mislynched outside of hydra and i tend to go kind of tryhard whenever someone gets close to lynching me as town, or even preemptively seems like they might.

i'm still here, damn.

huh i missed this in the p-edits

i do have to run those errands now but i'll get to this later and i'll be around later if you want to talk more

[skitter30]

b) i kinda disagree that you're saying if i were scum here 'my focus would be on winning the remainder of the game' (ie that it sounds like you think i'd be focusing on the long-term) - if i were scum my focus would be on like trying to maintain the townread to ensure i didn't immediately lose the game; i could focus on winning the game after. we talked about this a lot - i don't particularly look for mislynches as scum; i that's not what my strength is; i just kinda let them happen. i pocket people instead.

kind of missed my point here. as town i'm saying i'd expect your focus to be on players like me, but most of our interaction has felt like i've been initiating it. am i wrong?
"maintaining the townread" is kind of a nebulous concept, you could be doing that by continuing to scumhunt.

i don't find it strange to be pushing no lunch.

regarding my own meta: like i said if you have time and like to read old games i gave you a link.
it is worth nothing i've never been mislynched outside of hydra and i tend to go kind of tryhard whenever someone gets close to lynching me as town, or even preemptively seems like they might.

i'm still here, damn.

as town i don't know who i'd focus on; i don't really like focus on people with similar playstyles necessarily? i was focusing on no lunch yesterday because that was the most interesting thread to me during that period while we were all interacting in real time

eh fair wrt maintaining a townread being a nebulous concept

i missed that you had linked the game; i'll go back and check it at some point

i've only been mislynched twice (both in lylo, both while i was v/la - when i had announced i would be v/la at that point ) but yeah i tend to be really really really town if i think i'm close to getting mislynched, so i get that

[skitter30]

i feel pretty good about gamma but i feel very good about aubrey

not really confident i can read gamma well enough to want him in my coalition tbh

[skitter30]

I feel good about them both. Unfortunately we can only have one or the other. Aubrey was good enough to sacrifice his own seat at the coalition in favour of Gamma. I also vouch for Gamma (aside from me also TRing Aubrey), and so does Chara (at least in the sense of including him in their list).

I am trying to seal the coalition soon enough. We have spent SEVEN REAL DAYS already and we have yet to "start the game" if you will. Even if we take the coalition thing as a

guaranteed failure

, now is the time to have that status mod-confirmed so we can start scum hunting within the 5-players pool for the next 14 days. Do you get what I mean?

i mean i understand what you're saying but it feels really really wrong on a some gut level to take out someone i'm strongly townreading to put in someone i'm so-so townreading :/

[skitter30]

the only way chara is scum is if Aubrey is it's partner

how did you get to this conclusion?

[skitter30]

Of course!

I do hope it just passes. However, I believe you are scum after Almost50, but before Chara or skitter30.

kinda interested in how you got to be townreading me taht strongly?

[skitter30]

2- Lynch Chara << The one that makes most sense for everyone to be content with the coalition choices if it includes scum, and regardless of whether the other is in or out of it

3-a If Chara is scum, then skitter is confirmed a townie and should lead the Town. She was guaranteed her place a long time ago yet she still cared whom to pick.

3-b If Chara flips town, then I'm a douchebag and I've just caused the town to lose

i'm not sure why you're going to scum!chara first

i'm also not sure why i'm conf!town if chara is scum

[skitter30]

or why you odn't have a plan for what happens if chara flips town

[skitter30]

and i can't even call you scum for it because you want to lynch yourself first and i believe you'll go through with it.

yeah this

he's still town, i'm just kinda confused

i thought he was townreading you incredibly strongly, like as strongly as he's townreading me

that's partially why i've not been worrying too much of my paranoia of you, since he has more experience with you and can probably read you better and he seemed very confident you were town

[skitter30]

why in the hell didn't you just keep me out of the coalition?

1- Because then it would have been harder for me to gauge others behavior.
2- Because there was no way in hell to get you out of it in the first place. You already had 7 votes when I came in.

Make no mistake I still think you're Town with no less than 90% confidence, but you know me better than anyone. I don't go with my guts when I have a mechanical base to build on, so give me something that doesn't include the word "feel" and I will consider it.

1 - i suppose.
2 - it wouldn't have been hard. skitter was trusting you to read me and elephant was suspicious of me. us four were basically the town core in terms of being townread/activity.

and you don't have a mechanical base because your plan fails apart after my townflip.
and you

know

how much my towngame relies on feelings. you're aware of that. i'd rather you mislynch me first so you know i'm town, and then you can put some trust my feelings like you do when we hydra.

this post, and others from chara in this convo, make me feel better about them

==

Spoiler:

scumteam was actually mme and me, we decided to concede because we were in an unrecoverable spot

DDDDAAAAMMMMMNNNNNN.

Thank god. In the seven or so years I've been playing on and off, I've never been mis-lynched. I was figuring I was about to lose that call to fame.

Why townread Gamma so early?

...and i'll apologize to Almost for getting angry about this when it didn't matter.
sorry Almost.

reaction testing

aubrey and chara were p quick to respond and i liked their responses

i think chara/aubry/sky are town

==

Nice post, AlmostFakety.

this feels shade-y

==

You are but one vote, my friend. I know some others would. skitter -for instance- is very paranoid as town. She would 2nd guess her read on me if I don't catch scum in 2 days.

i am very paranoid as town

i would prob reconsider my read on you at some point, but idk if not-catching-scum would be the impetus for that to happen

==

LOL.. mod flaked, and players don't want to post anymore. How about that?

yeah she hasn't posted anywhere since thursday

==

my general feelings wrt figuring out where to scumhunt if the coalition fails is basically:

idk if the coalition passed or not and i'm not going to expend much energy figuring out where we may have gone wrong rn without knowing whether or not the coalition failed in the first place

[skitter30]

lmao this was a good game lol

it really was just a lurker scumteam

[skitter30]

gg everyone, thanks nsg for modding