Mini Normal 2108 : 1st game

[Rabid Schnauzer]

Here!

VOTE: Tchill

[Rabid Schnauzer]

Seems like he's just screwing around to me.
VOTE: Robbnva

[Rabid Schnauzer]

that will ultimately drive me to replace out if his behaviour continues.

You haven't noticed that this is against the rules?

[Rabid Schnauzer]

Yes, it was against the rules. And how is it interesting that I point out AtE? That's pretty common.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

Well people have accused people of things that are nai. You being one of them. Me saying what I said and using legit (besides the fact that legit is part of my vocabulary) means that the stuff I find scummy are things I’ve actually seen scum do. Instead of using a long work like actually, I say legit. If y’all want to call it a slip go ahead but it isn’t. Your line of thinking doesn’t even make sense on a logical or even common sense level so I’m not going to worry about it.

Except...this entire post

is

you worrying about it.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

and it kinda implies you feel like this situation needs some credibility because rn you're bullshitting so you're comparing it to a ~true~ time you've caught scum this way

the key part was this part ^

Yes, that's what I thought as well. The "legit" line of discussion seems like a straw man distraction.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

I accuse people, see how they react, and then sort.
It's why I poked so many people with my first posts in the game.
Reads list incoming.

That’s a way I guess. You can’t really reaction test people that way

Why can't you reaction test someone by accusing them and seeing how they react?

[Rabid Schnauzer]

You’ve basically ignored game relevant discussion for something insignificant. If you think I broke a rule. Report me and move on. And ATE is NAI so you really should focus on more important things if you are town.

You don't get to declare what can or cannot be a reaction test (above), and you don't get to declare that AtE is NAI. It gets mentioned enough that it has an acronym and a wiki page, so apparently a lot of people think it can be AI. This is (at least) the second instance of you trying to control the narrative by declaring what counts as valid scum hunting.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

What are your thoughts about what’s actually happened?

You're scum.

You try to misrep me as only coming in on the replace out issue. Fact is I had already changed my RVS vote to a serious vote on you due to your reaction to Hectic's posts, which clearly seemed to be joking or RT to me.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

got my eye on skitter's probing of robb for sure.

Bad post.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

Yes, that's what I thought as well. The "legit" line of discussion seems like a straw man distraction.

You should probably learn the definition of straw man before before using it. That isn’t an example of straw man

This appears to be exactly what you accused me of doing with the rule break accusation.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

Also Did you really accuse me of going after something easy to push? Try Harding and calming non ai things scummy are like

things I’ve legit see scum do

. I say SUP and don’t try to advance the game on page one ever game I play, as well as more then 75% of the players on the site. So if anyone is attacking easy things it’s you sir

I can actually. I can do whatever I want. Reaction tests are almost never reliable cause you have to know how somebody reacts as town and scum. Just cause you see a reaction you don’t like doesn’t mean that person is scum or even scummy.

Ate is nai cause town use ate also. You can’t determine alignment by ate and that’s been proven over and over.

You seem to think that it's valid to read people in part based on things you've seen scum do. Yet, when I do just that, you argue that ti's invalid.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

VOTE: Wake88

Hello!

EBWOP

My vote is on wake because this was going to be my excuse if I have trouble getting engaged on D1.

Seems like he's just screwing around to me.
VOTE: Robbnva

these are eazy votes with eazy reasoning. Nobodies gonna argue with this stuff. Looks like you're doing something.

of the 2 i find bright eyes scummier. my vote's already there.

Another bad post. You generally can't have deep, nuanced reasoning by post 11, or 12, or 29. This post is also easy reasoning that makes you look like you're doing something.

FOS: tchill

This could very well be tchill's scum game.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

Five posts by tchill making comments on hectic v. robb while adding nothing and staying safely on the fence:

Spoiler:

Scummiest person so far. The guy who scumleans the mod and people for nai stuff.

VOTE: Hectic

LMAO as i was reading pg 1 i was like... "well, if robb truly wants to change hectic will be a big challenge".

im not a fan of hectic's schtick or play style. He does CARE though, which is all I ask for to like playing with someone.

I have a lot of prior knowledge of players in this game. it'll be interesting.

In too deep so you can’t back out, huh?
I'm sorry if my behaviour is too “try hardy" for you.
Nah,

fuck that

, why should I be apologising for your shitty behaviour? I play this game to win. That means pointing out shit I find scummy, and not giving ANYONE a free pass.
You’re playing this game to win too, but from the MAFIA's side. You lurk around with your non-game progressing behaviour, and the

second

you see something easy to push, you’re in there like a fucking Nazi going to Argentina.

Intent to hammer if Rob ever hits L-1.

im not surprised robb voted you, in fact i expected he'd vote you.

Scum! robb is aware of Town! robb's play most of the time. He seems to play into it. No hard stance on robb from me yet.

oh page 2 is splendid. exactly what i'd expect from a hectic and robb interaction lol.

Robb, Hectic is ... different. He's pretty much the perfect storm for a player you'd hate as far as I can gather. He does get better as the game goes along though.

I do expect slurs and a replace out at some point. idk from whom but maybe i'll be wrong.

I honestly can't see scum doing what hectic is doing

all i ask is you ask yourself if its town that doesnt know how to play well or if its scum with an agenda. Because if theres a scenario where someone is playinjg scum entirely too poorly to be scum then that maybe true.

I'm making changes to my behavior as well. I got too toxic there for a bit. Diluted my reads and game play. Wasnt enjoying it anymore. Best of luck to you robb. I pretty much just refuse to be an asshole no matter the circumstance now. I see it as a challenge lol.

hectic's always scummy af and if his trolling gets him ran up I won't defend him. I completely understand.

ques def suck here compared to when i started playing. I agree.

I do ask that robb and hectic BOTH tone down their normal behaviors (just this one game) for the sake of town winning.

any decent scum here is gonna pour fire on this flame. Nip it in the bud early.

ofc if you dont thats fine im just making a suggestion.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

Same reason as before.

Who's your no.2 pick?

Don’t have one yet.

So, despite all the shade you're casting my way, you don't find me scummier than anyone else. Interesting.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

I really didn’t consider that a real vote.

Why not? I had already made a RVS vote. I then changed to another person and gave a reason. That's usually considered a real vote.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

I'm Persivul.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

while I agree that tchill probably should start adding content, I don't really see this as fence sitting. tchill knows how I am a player. It seems tchill knows how hectic is as a player. If I was playing how I normally do, this game would already be at page 20 of me and hectic fighting back and forth.

Since tchill knows you both, that's even more reason he should have a position on your 1v1.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

hectic - what do you make of schnauzer's playstyle shift after getting called out? ignore the points he made because tbh the points he made could be made as either alignment, does the playstyle shift itself concern you?

Scummy AF.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

schnauzer, why did you answer my question that I asked bef?

I didn't. Maybe you're conflating 74 and 105.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

before three people mentioned

Nah, you're not casting shade...

[Rabid Schnauzer]

again, telling the truth isn't casting shade. I am sorry if you think so but the facts remain. before me and 2 others call you out your only real contribution is "you broke a rule" after that you decide to contribute.

Those are facts. take it however you want but that is what happened.

Of course, you think they're NAI facts, so...why keep repeating it?

[Rabid Schnauzer]

You said you don't have a second scum read. So, you apparently don't find my actions to be scummy. If they're AI, you must find them to be townie.

Basically, you're casting shade without actually making a push. I hydra'd once with farside. She taught me that's a big scum sign.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

@fish:

do you recall a game in which I was scum, you were town, and a neighborhood played a big role? I think (but not sure) skitter might have been in it too. I'd like to read it but can't find it. If you know what game that is please let me know. Thanks.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

Damn, Fish's reads list is terrible. Haven't got time now but will elaborate later.

VOTE: Fish

Fish's style makes him a bad D1 lynch. You'll get no information from it. Anyone can find reason to hop on or off a fish wagon.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

@fish:

do you recall a game in which I was scum, you were town, and a neighborhood played a big role? I think (but not sure) skitter might have been in it too. I'd like to read it but can't find it. If you know what game that is please let me know. Thanks.

Maybe you're thinking of Pret Mafia

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=78424

Yes, that's it, thanks. I need to review but IIRC skitter correctly read both of us (I survived despite that due to a fake claim). If that's the case, and if I can get comfortable that skitter is town, then I can sheep her fish read.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

if you want to start pushing me start pushing me. Shade gets you nowhere.

I clearly did start pushing you with the FOS in 120. I can only vote one player at a time, and I started pushing robb first.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

let me ask you this. Is town or scum better off hoping on trends and making easy vote posts or trying to solve OTHER things early?

In the first 30 posts, either alignment will do so, as there's just not much to go on.

I tend to town lean those that go against the wind early since they're taking a blatant stance or are trying to generate more content.

opposed to what basic scum do, go with the flow.

Yeah, that's why I suspect you. You repeatedly commented on robb v hectic without taking a stance.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

essentially most players will take a stance on hectic and robb then the game will go from there.

there's no reason for that to happen since every time BOTH players are town they'll prob get in a huge argument like this.

I refuse to let this turn into the robb v hectic game this early.

Seems like thats EXACTLY what rabid wants.

Yep...except for the fact that I

changed

it from robb v hectic to robb v me.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

the me vs hectic isn't even anything serious. It's two playstyles clashing. You can't determine alignment from either of us based on what has been posted so far. anyone who claims they can is clearly lying to themselves or lying to us.

So...why did you engage in it? You just felt like providing cover for scum?

[Rabid Schnauzer]

Hey all.

My general play-style Day 1 is to lurk in the background. Take a breath. Breathe out.

I'll be observing Day 1, and going hardcore Day 2 and on. That's how I roll. I'll still pick at things during Day 1 if they catch my attention. I'm probably going to make a copy/paste post about this for all games I play, because it gets annoying when some ree in light of this information.

I'll be observing in the background. Please don't assume that I'm not present when you're posting.

I did some checking and saw you say this in another game where you were town, so I suppose it's NAI. But in a micro, two mislynches puts us in lylo, so you're saying you're not participating in HALF the lynches before potential lylo. You probably shouldn't play micros with that approach.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

you are either scum or incredibly conf.biased

Which do you think it is?

[Rabid Schnauzer]

is rabid genuinely concerned about tchill being wary of easy goers then not taking a stance on robb/hectic? Does he genuinely think scum! robb is gonna make that particular reason why he votes hectic and starts all this crap (shitty reasoning imo)

or is rabid making a lot of noise and trying to get rid of robb here because that'd be a unique play for scum here....

thats the question.

And is rabid's reputation for making unique plays, or for playing as by-the-books as possible?

[Rabid Schnauzer]

rabid Defending BEF then FOS'ing me doesnt make sense for the reasons rabid stated imo.

If all you got is meta to defend BEF and you're gonna white knight him this early... what the hell.

This is a micro. We unfortunately don't have the luxury of taking out lynch bait on D1. BEF is better left to PRs, or as I noted, skitter (if town) can probably read him. Votes on BEF at this point are lazy AF.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

then vote someone not named hectic or robb. Because from where I sit if every player was town here those 2 would be the biggest lynchbait.

OK.

VOTE: Tchill13

[Rabid Schnauzer]

pro tip: skitter is gud

[Rabid Schnauzer]

let the records show BEF is at least worth the use of a night action or skitter's read.

While rabid is man enough to make HIS OWN read on tchill. devoid of claimed PR's or Goddesses of the skitterarian mythology.

Do you really find it mystifying that sometimes Player A can read Player C better than Player B can read Player C? I don't think it's unusual at all. I don't think you really find it unusual either, so this line is strengthening my scum read on you.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

rabid is such a bizarre character. None of his pushes or even his play make any sense as town,

Why not? Seriously, you don't really believe that both you and tchill both have played so squeaky clean as to be above a push, do you?

[Rabid Schnauzer]

So maybe you guys should push me.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

You could join me on Tchill...

[Rabid Schnauzer]

and as rabid pointed out. its a micro game. nobody should get a pass.

unless skitter is indeed town (no basis for this), then skitter gets to decide the game for us.

Drama queen much?

One sheeped vote on one player (and only IF I can get comfortable with skitter) does not equate to "skitter gets to decide the game for us."

Again, your reactions are really troubling me.

"if skitter is town" Rabid has done nothing to sort skitter. I dont believe more than 1 question or statement has been pointed at skit from rabid.

Do you realize that the game hasn't even been going for 48 hours yet?

I have some things that I'll watch for when skitter addresses the new content.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

this is what I am talking about re rabid. He isn't trying to sort anyone.

LOL - you don't think I've been sorting you?

[Rabid Schnauzer]

no because by your own admission you voted me seriously in post 29 (for no reason mind you)

Yes, reason was given.

and all your posts have been attacks/shading and no actual attempt to actually sort me. they are all conf. biased with me being scum. There is no objectivity.

How do you know how I sort?

FWIW, I didn't remove my vote from you just because tchill challenged me to do so. I'm considering the possibility that you're emotional and overly defensive town. If you were at L-1 right now I wouldn't hammer.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

There is no evidence of sorting between your vote on me and this post.

For crying out loud, it was page 5.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

Rabid. Why was I accused of misrepping you regarding the rule violation but you ignored hectic and skitter (who I honestly feel like if you are scum, you are trying to buddy here)

Because I was sorting you, not hectic (who I have a town lean on) nor skitter (who IMO isn't sortable through pressure).

[Rabid Schnauzer]

I can only go off what i see and your entire iso has been skewed towards me being scum. So you are either conf. biased or are scum. if you were sorting me, there would be more questions trying to understand my thought process.

You're projecting. Maybe you prefer to sort through gentle questioning, rather than pressure. I in general prefer pressure. And, my read on you has adjusted because of it.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

at this point you need to not worry about convincing me you are town.

OK. Sorry to hear your mind is closed this early, but really we need to end this now anyway as I suspect it's TvT and providing cover for scum.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

So can soemone sum up what all these last 40 posts ahve been about. As it just looks like dialogue between 3 players. So can each player sum up whats been talked about in their opinion

I'm not providing a summary, or focusing on just 40 posts, but here's where I'm at with robb and tchill:

robb - somewhere in null. I would say lean town - he could easily just be naturally defensive and over-emotional town - BUT, I saw one scum game where his posting was much different than it is here, and in that game he admitted that he was playing differently than usual. That shows that he's aware of his own playstyle and able to manipulate it. So, I'm concerned he might just be doing that in another way here. I'm also concerned about his appeals against me to other players - particularly hectic, who was supposedly his only scum read at the time. I don't understand the mentality of trying to work with your scum read.

tchill - scummy. Unlike robb, my interaction with him has strengthened my scum read on him. I've played scum and town with him, and this seems like scum to me. His town game is more logical. I don't buy this bullshit outrage he's making at my saying that I might sheep skitter on fish. That's a really minor thing - feels like he's grasping at something to attack because I'm hitting some valid points.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

I saw one scum game where his posting was much different than it is here, and in that game he admitted that he was playing differently than usual.

link?

Here's the scum game, which you won with skitter:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=80934

I was wrong that you said you were playing differently there. Must have been someone else, or I was thinking of what you said earlier in this game: "I can't speak for hectic, but tchill knows I can actually copy my town meta as scum."

[Rabid Schnauzer]

Another scum game of robb FWIW:

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=80031

[Rabid Schnauzer]

tbh, if I was scum I would be too afraid of changing my meta/playstyle. Obviously you have to just take my word for it but under one of my accounts (probably jfsf) I did try and change my play but I rolled scum and it is so much easier to bull in a china shop as scum than it is to experiment with a new playstyle. Everyone is automatically going to wonder why the change. As town i don't care how I am perceived. As scum I absolutely do.

What are your open alts?

[Rabid Schnauzer]

How did your read adjust from pressuring Robb?

He felt more like frustrated omgussy town than scum. Plus, when I backed off on the scum read, he kept pushing back at me, even harder in fact. When a scum is pressured in a heavy 1v1 and manages to placate his opponent, he tends to either then mend things to some extent with the opponent, or at least let the matter drop.

At what point did you start figuring he was Town?

When I read his ISO in a couple scum games. His tone is very different here. BUT, I do see signs of the scum tone starting to creep in.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

You shouldn't use posts from very old, past games to determine my current gameplay.

If you would, you know...actually participate in the current game, people wouldn't have to go to old games...

[Rabid Schnauzer]

you obv think robb is town if im scum ind. of robb.

That's not at all true, and I think you're smart enough to know that.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

LMAO - you hard defended robb?

[Rabid Schnauzer]

LMAO - you hard defended robb?

what do you call disintegrating a fight between hectic/robb then eventually saying hectic would be scum of the two?

The way you did it I'd call it a really weak defense of robb.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

rabid is picking and choosing points to attack.

skitter is taking a conversation directed towards rabid and manipulating it so i look a certain way.

im sorry im not seeing some of your info skit. I loathe the huge wall posts.

LMAO again. You're admitting that you're picking and choosing what points of skitter's posts you'll even bother to

read

.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

if you notice those that do participate usually get FOS'd. Wake will not reach more than 3 votes this day phase. Ever. He very well could be scum but hey who cares...

ppl always say they care then they ignore the inactive slot entirely d1. If someone likes they can portray this posts as an attempt to deflect from my situation atm.

so its pointless to even mention wake.

And yet you mention him.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

"the way" as in you have a specific idea of HOW something is.

Yeah, like when I quoted five of your posts that were all fence sittty on robb/hectic.

Would you like me to do it again?

[Rabid Schnauzer]

Ok i think i get where you're coming from better, i dont think i sr u super strongly anymore

Bad move. This isn't his town game. In my experience with him as scum, he's bad at it on D1, but gets better with each passing day. So, be really sure you don't scum read him today, because if he's scum, today is the day to catch him.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

i dont even understand why you value this because i came to a result of robb more likely town without being pressured to and at my own accord.

Yep, which makes sense if he's your partner.

You did NOT hard defend him, and claiming that you did is scummy.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

robb, do you get pronouns wrong intentionally?

[Rabid Schnauzer]

You're not doing bad town things. You're doing scum things.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

I'm taking a day off (and unlike some people I'll actually do it). I've posted enough for now. Others need to step it up.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

Rabid. Why was I accused of misrepping you regarding the rule violation but you ignored hectic and skitter (who I honestly feel like if you are scum, you are trying to buddy here)

Because I was sorting you, not hectic (who I have a town lean on) nor skitter (who IMO isn't sortable through pressure).

[Rabid Schnauzer]

BEF town game:
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=79261

BEF scum game:
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=77859

[Rabid Schnauzer]

- i also initially disliked that you were treating me and rabid's 'sheep someone else on player X' thing differently, but when you explained in 376 how you interact with different players differently depending on what you think of their skill level, it made some more sense

Were you referring to a different post than 376 here?

[Rabid Schnauzer]

19. Private topics are open at all times. Roles which have private communication are permitted daytalk.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

I got prodded.

Sheeeeit.

I'm here, but also working nights. Anything new currently?

If this weren't a micro I would so push for a PL on this.

Why do people even sign up when they don't want to play?

[Rabid Schnauzer]

skitter's change on tchill has me uncomfortable. garmr, bob, what do you think about her switch?

[Rabid Schnauzer]

If she and tchill are scum, then yes, the switch makes sense, precisely because he is at risk of a lynch going through.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

Again, i'm a she, can you stop doing that ????

Also, robb, you keep telling me i havent explained my read on you, when i have, at least three times.

What dont you think i've failed to answer, exactly?

At this point i almost feel like you're trying to make me annoyed ...

Yeah, he's gaslighting. Really annoying. I'm back to my first reads of tchill/robb.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

Skitter is the one refusing over and over and over and over to explain herself and I’m the one gaslighting?

Yes. Saying you have a gut read or whatever isn't refusing to explain yourself, and refusing to explain yourself isn't gaslighting anyway.

You OTOH keep repeating questions that have been answered, ss if they hadn't been answered.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

Nobody is trying to solve. everyone is just bitching and sitting in their trenches.

Frankly, for me, robb's toxicity has taken the fun out of this game. That's mostly why I'm in a trench at this point.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

I already know I'm not ever going to be lynched in this game, so I'm going to break the ice because I want to involve all other members of Town. I'm hoping this is not an unwise play with my role, and am hoping there's a protective role out there.

I am a Town Vigilante. I can target anyone at night and kill them. I don't particularly trust my own judgement and aim because I am not as deep into this game as other players are. So I want to include everyone else in this decision, the decision on who we vote for me to kill each Night. I'm hoping this is the right move, and that someone in this game can and will protect me.

I doubt that there's a town unlimited vig in a micro without scum having a RB, so you probably lost your ability by claiming. Which is probably a good thing. Vigs rarely make the right decisions.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

That’s why I’m freaking pissed at rabid to dare accuse me right after the mod issues a warning.

Didja ever consider that I reply as I read and I hadn't seen the mod's warning yet? Apparently not. Such assumptions are part of the toxicity, but it's mostly about repetition.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

If we mislynch and mis-vig, we're probably in 4-2 mylo on D2.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

You are completely out of line. I have not done a damn thing toxic. Want me to link you to a game where I caused half the player list to replace out due to my toxicity? I can show you toxic.

Didja ever consider that if you can be so toxic that half the player list replaced out, that maybe nontoxic to you is still somewhat toxic to others?

[Rabid Schnauzer]

btw, @ everyone - Hectic fake replaced out and told his replacement to claim macho cop. The mod deleted the post and issued a warning and hectic claimed that made him confirmed town. I feel like this information is useful. I wish the mod would not have deleted the post. bob and bef saw that post and can confirm.

I saw it too, but I respect mod's decision and so didn't bring it up.

Where do bob and bef talk about it?

[Rabid Schnauzer]

You may want to read my latest post, Robb.

I read it - so what? How does a role absolve you of responsibility to play the game?

[Rabid Schnauzer]

Apparently you are , but no problem, I found the references myself.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

With robb making this an issue, this game is over.

[Rabid Schnauzer]

rabid please expand.

I replaced out.