Legends of the Buisness Company [Staplers Take Over the World]

[Thestatusquo]

might as well put your clown nose back on.

[Thestatusquo]

Looks like it yeah.

[Thestatusquo]

missed sheeps vote.

[Thestatusquo]

2. It started at -1.

There are 4 votes on him and he needs 6 because he is loved.

[Thestatusquo]

Holmes vs Hyperpost Meta vs 5.02

Dunnstral (0):
Enchant (-1):

Not Voting (9): Gimli, Dunnstral, Thestatusquo, Save The Dragons, T-Bone, Enchant, Gamma Emerald, Sheepssaysmeep, SirCakez,



With 9 Alive, It Takes 5 to Eliminate.
Deadline for challenge is (expired on 2023-02-18 16:45:00)

Mod Notes: Johnson's has been swapped Holmes under the Hammer. Enchant is now loved.

[Thestatusquo]

you have literally just described how a poe works.

if you want me in the poe better make a strong case why I'm scum and then flip green and maybe people will listen to you. I think not though because its pretty obvious I'm town.

[Thestatusquo]

Sure it does, puddin. Sure it does.

[Thestatusquo]

Flip psyche after me please that's all I ask

This feels incredibly weird to just post out of the blue

pretty demoralized when everyone's coming out of the woodwork to sus me for no reason

Saying there's no reason is just deeply wrong. I understand being demoralized if you're town, but trying to act like literally there's no reason is manipulative. I listed several.

[Thestatusquo]

Ok, but it turns out theres more than one person who made more than one post.

[Thestatusquo]

More to the point, you're not even under consideration right now, so what do you think about enchant? It feels extremely weird that you're making a big deal of this right now when you're not even on the chopping block at the moment and refusing to engage with the actual vote that's happening.

[Thestatusquo]

Read my posts my guy I talked about it in detail, but I see no reason to argue with you about whether or not you're scum right now when, once again, you're not even up for elimination.

[Thestatusquo]

That's sure a whole lot of nothing.

[Thestatusquo]

You're refusing to engage with your worldview making no sense in thinking psyche was a bus, specifically you seem to think that the vague concept of "looking more townie" is more valuable than a miselim at the cost of going from MYLO to town having 3 miselims, can you go into more detail about why you think that? Is that how you would play it as scum?

[Thestatusquo]

why would scum ask for a mystery box and get the same mod response i got when asked for a mystery box

??? Scum would know they didn't set a price for the mystery box???

[Thestatusquo]

So you really think the correct play is to go from "we are about to win the game" to "the town gets 3 more shots"

That's just insane and I guess the insane part isn't that you think that but that you're refusing to consider any possibility that the scum would consider taking the optimal path.

Like I guess I understand thinking its possible the scum would do this, though I think personally its extremely unlikely, but I don't get just landing on that as the only option and refusing to consider anything else.

[Thestatusquo]

Yeah and if you're town that's been shaping your worldview in a way that I would describe as a tunnel that is causing you to refuse to consider many extremely more likely scenarios.

Which is again possible but occams razor tells me the more likely reason for why you are scum siding from my pov is that you're scum.

[Thestatusquo]

Say you had a day vig and you vigged psyche slot and it flips green, what would your worldview change to?

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think you've been pretty town all game.

I think your shirou and norwee associatives suck.

[Thestatusquo]

i think if you had been less stubborn and had given 5 reasons to vote shirou, shirou would have died before norwee

I spent plenty of time explaining why shirou was scum. You had no interest in looking at it as you continued to push on psyche. That is not my fault. My lack of desire to engage with you on shirou for the fifth time about why he's scum is not the reason you didn't vote shirou and its completely disingenuous of you to claim that it is.

Don't blame me for your lack of curiosity in scum hunting.

[Thestatusquo]

if psyche is green it doesn't change the fact that gamma/t-bone are who i would look at next. cakez i guess could also be scum

So you've built your whole worldview around psyche being scum and that being a bus but then psyche flipping green would not change how you view the other players in the game at all?

The actions of tbone and gamma and their many attempts to steer away from psyche towards shirou wouldn't change your thoughts on those slots at all?

[Thestatusquo]

Its so weird that you're not arguing for who you think we should flip now instead of just going woe is me I'm under suspicion. It's like not how a townie would act in this situation at all. In fact, both your and enchants reaction here is reaffirming to me what I think because I think if you were townie you'd be like ok well I'll flip green and then the town will reevaluate and we have a ton of flips so its fine.

But you're both acting like you getting flipped is the end of the world and I feel like that's extremely more likely to come from scum than from town in this game state.

Like you keep saying things like flip me and you'll see but at the same time you're both AtEing and making disingenuous arguments about how flipping you is so bad when like ultimately if you're town, so what? We move on and try to flip someone else.

It seems like you both are arguing that even being in the PoE is bad.

[Thestatusquo]

Like maybe you could say that its extremely bad if you think we have some set list of three and you think theyre all town but I don't know how you could think thats what you expect to happen given I came into today challenging dunn and completely changed my mind from that based off of new information.

[Thestatusquo]

You're not arguing that we should flip psyche.

You're going oh woe is me people sus me and have not added anything to why psyche is scum since before two scum flips which happened to be the people who were pushing him and the only thing you did to deal with that is saying "oh well it has to be a bus" while ignoring how unlikely that is.

[Thestatusquo]

Nah that reads like cosplaying as a townie who doesn't care if he dies but every other post you make screams "survivalism"

[Thestatusquo]

Those reasons suck given that they are at best minor pings for things that town do all the time also and psyche-scum makes zero sense in terms of the game state.

[Thestatusquo]

If anything the fact that this is all you've got, for your top suspect, while considering literally zero other options, like 200 pages into a game, with no other scum suspects really, is not a point in your favor.

[Thestatusquo]

I think scum!you does not have a lot of good options here.

[Thestatusquo]

I think "randomly going on about some elim that isn't going to happen" while barely mentioning the elim on the person who is likely to be limmed (anti spew lel) and concentrating on talking about your own being sussed is kind of exactly what I would expect scum!you to be doing. Or lurking, I guess.

[Thestatusquo]

I'd expect town you to consider the possibility that you're wrong at literally any point.

[Thestatusquo]

That's such a slimy post. Granting that its a possibility that you could be wrong while not in any way actually considering it as a possibility and not engaging at all with the new information from the last two lims while sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "welp it must be a bus!" is not actually considering the possibility that you're wrong.

[Thestatusquo]

i am not voting enchant i think i made that clear and i made it clear why i am not voting enchant so saying i'm not talking about the current vote is misrepping me

yes "I believe enchant" is very clear.

[Thestatusquo]

That's such a slimy post. Granting that its a possibility that you could be wrong while not in any way actually considering it as a possibility and not engaging at all with the new information from the last two lims while sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "welp it must be a bus!" is not actually considering the possibility that you're wrong.

And I had to pry that admission that you could have been wrong out of your clenched fist over 2 days. What the actual fuck dude.

[Thestatusquo]

Would have been faster to just post "no u" again.

In what world am I tunneling? I literally came into today challenging someone else. I literally changed who I thought was scum from new infromation like 48 hours ago.

Tunneling lmao.

What more buzz words do you have that you can throw out there?

[Thestatusquo]

So you're saying you knew all the reasons that someone, who then flipped scum, was clearly scum, and because I didn't give you a valentine saying "StD be mine" because it was like the fourth or fifth time I'd done so and you could just read the damn thread you decided that you wouldn't do the townie today?

Ok dude, that's just complete nonsense.

[Thestatusquo]

you're attributing everything i'm doing to bad faith

you don't get a gold star just because you didn't tunnel someone else

Everything you're doing is nonsense.

[Thestatusquo]

I'd expect town you to consider the possibility that you're wrong at literally any point.

Pretty hypocritic to say.

Once again, I literally changed my mind after challenging not 48 hours ago.

I am constantly changing my mind and reevaluating. Claiming that I don't change my mind just because I haven't with you when you've done fuck all to attempt to change my mind is fucking hilarious.

[Thestatusquo]

Correct, so your claim that I am not open to changing my mind is just nonsense.

I haven't with you because you haven't done a damn thing to make me think you're town since I started suspecting you.

[Thestatusquo]

You told me to piss off and accused me of insulting you when I said your tone shifted.

[Thestatusquo]

Hm interesting, you said you related to me about it when I wasn't suggesting it implicated you. Feels like another weird tone shift from you.

Piss off

No, i didn't.

[Thestatusquo]

If you think I'm scum, which you don't actually. Hence why you're not pushing me at all.

[Thestatusquo]

Although you are right, mental illness is a serious thing and I don't like that I used the word crazy to make my point, its pretty ableist.

I'm sorry I used that language to describe you. I did not even realize that was what you were upset about because the post you quoted was just me talking about your tone. It was wrong of me to express my thoughts that way.

[Thestatusquo]

And mafia, having asked the mod about the scum box earlier or having more information about it in their role pms to start perhaps, would already know that?

Like if I'm scum and theres something called a scum box that I am responsible for setting a price for I would expect information about what that means to be in my role pm and if not I would ask how it works immediately?

[Thestatusquo]

I see no reason why enchant in this spot as town would even buy a scum box if he thinks the two people pushing him are scum, which is what he claims to think, so it reads much more like a thing said to vaguely seem townie as if he doesn't already know what the scum box does.

[Thestatusquo]

What are your reasons for thinking std is scum?

[Thestatusquo]

I've seen a lot of you saying he's scum and not a lot of you explaining why you think that

[Thestatusquo]

It does give me pause re:psyche that gimli has just done literally nothing since replacing in. No read of the thread. No real timing.

Two worthless posts.

[Thestatusquo]

I know it's on level of "lol" but if i am mafia, i place something funny on price

Like 6969

This would be a scum claim but a funny scum claim.

[Thestatusquo]

enchant is doing things that make him more likely town in a game where I'm sure he'd roll up and troll as mafia

so that's my hot take for this game

like?

[Thestatusquo]

I think enchants play today exactly matches the description of trolling.

This is not how he played when he thought he was going home pre dance in new years dance.

[Thestatusquo]

Like read his iso.

I've heard this a lot, that enchant scum doesn't do things and enchant town does things but I don't really think I've seen enchant do a lot of things in this game.

[Thestatusquo]

Like...how? Could you describe a typical enchant iso as town and scum?

[Thestatusquo]

I guess I am not very good at discerning different shades of nothingness.

[Thestatusquo]

What would be extremely funny (and incredibly unlikely) is if StD was actually partnered with psyche and is just stubbornly still trying to complete the bus because he thinks it clears him fully.

[Thestatusquo]

I think if StD is partnered with a non-enchant person it is gamma.

[Thestatusquo]

if that's your solve then the entire scum team + dunnstral was on psyche at one point

Hyperpost Meta vs Board of Mis-directors vs 3.07

Pysche (5): Dunnstral, Shirou, Gamma Emerald, Save The Dragons, NorwegianboyEE ,
Dunnstral (1) : Psyche ,
Shirou (3) : T-Bone, SirCakez, Thestatusquo,

Not Voting (3): Sheepssaysmeep , Enchant, PookytheMagicalBear,,


With 12 Alive, It Takes 7 to Eliminate.
Deadline for challenge is (expired on 2023-02-11 10:45:00)

Mod Notes:

I don't understand why you think this is remarkable?

[Thestatusquo]

I won't mind voting Gamma

Well currently I think you are more likely to be scum than gamma.

[Thestatusquo]

You have never seen 4 scum vote a townie when they are two miselims away from winning? What? Bullshit?

[Thestatusquo]

I will say if there is a scummy for 'worst game played ever as mafia' I should win it for this game if I flip red. I'll nominate myself.

[Thestatusquo]

Would be cool if we were buddies. We could win it jointly then.

[Thestatusquo]

I think if StD is partnered with a non-enchant person it is gamma.

I just realised that you believe in this dumb slip and Gamma WAS in it.

Now you consider Gamma suspect. That's interesting.



Anyway status is mafia, which you could see from trying to troll me and insult.

I am crazy? Need to put clown nose? Not aligns with believe that i am mafia. If i am mafia, i am certainly not crazy or clown. I want to survive by any method. It only makes sense to insult me if you believe i am town with really poor reads, which you don't.

if you flip green the dumb slip is wrong? Obviously?

[Thestatusquo]

The duality of enchant: claims I don't reevaluate while attacking me for being open to the possibility of me being wrong.

[Thestatusquo]

I never doubted it was true and also confirmed it myself.

[Thestatusquo]

I am unconvinced by your enchant town arguments. If you can show me an enchant scum game maybe I could be convinced but tbch with you I don't feel particularly convinceable.

[Thestatusquo]

it would be incredibly if somehow gimli ended up voting me after I've spent literally the entire game protecting his slot and pushing the lims onto scum instead.

I would honestly laugh so hard.

[Thestatusquo]

instead of trying to convince people enchant is town, I'm gonna just side with him and enable him

not doing meta dives for you, do your own work yo! this is not my game I don't wanna dwelve too hard into it, quite frankly I don't care much if we win but we're not flipping goddamn enchant today

You have read roughly zero of the game so like this is an extremely frustrating perspective. I did my own work. I played the fucking game. Why don't you try fucking reading it?

[Thestatusquo]

do you not even know the rules of the game? And you're telling me to town case myself? Fuck off dude.

[Thestatusquo]

yes actually. I prefer no one playing your slot who I had pretty much mech cleared in my mind than someone coming in with no fucking information and working against me at random while having no fuckign clue what is going on.

Yes I prefer that.

[Thestatusquo]

The more i think about it I think the person shirou was upset at was norwee for not shooting in the Lazer game.

[Thestatusquo]

At least norwee claimed to have not shot in the lazer game and it did seem like me Gamma and pooky all getting to the end together didn't seem like something the scum team would want

[Thestatusquo]

You claimed scum

[Thestatusquo]

You claimed scum

Wait when

it was weird you were like I am the bad people and then you peed on the carpet.

[Thestatusquo]

Fun fact is I also have plenty of money.

[Thestatusquo]

What happened to you wanting to flip psyche slot?

[Thestatusquo]

I was mean to you because you took something that I had been thinking about over literally 200 pages and basically just made fart noises about it.

I don't like being rude or mean and I'm sorry I reacted that way but I hope you can see how that was extremely frustrating to me.

[Thestatusquo]

UNVOTE:

I will read this ISO.

[Thestatusquo]

Seems unlikely.

[Thestatusquo]

Theres no real cost to you having spent your money to buy immunity. You use your immunity, someone challenges, I switch back to you and then you're not even loved anymore.

Shrug. I actually don't even care if you're bluffing, its not a good bluff.

[Thestatusquo]

Ah misread one word. So use it, coward.

[Thestatusquo]

You know I also have the money to buy a double vote if I need to.

I'm planning on reading your iso in 2019 first though.

[Thestatusquo]

Ok I have read Enchants ISO in 2019. I don't discern a ton of difference in how he played there vs here.

I do think there is a minor tonal shift where he does seem a little more comfortable tonally in this game than in that one but that's a pretty minor thing, I think.

VOTE: Enchant

[Thestatusquo]

I appreciate that the love of hammering even extends to self.

[Thestatusquo]

ok VOTE: STD

[Thestatusquo]

I'm disappointed in you shea

If I'm wrong I'll say I'm very sorry in the post game.

[Thestatusquo]

Did enchant flip affect you at all

One person in my poe flipping green should effect me how, exactly?

[Thestatusquo]

Doesn't humble you at all huh

This is the same shit norwee was doing with me. Can I be wrong? Sure? Does that mean I am? No? Does me being wrong about one thing mean I can't be right about other stuff? No?

Like what exactly is the point you're making. We're wrong in games of mafia all the time. That's how the game goes. I've been right about a lot this game too.

[Thestatusquo]

It's a fundamentally vacuous argument.

[Thestatusquo]

It's the same argument. What do you expect me to do? Cry and gnash my teeth about being wrong? Disregard every other thing I think because I was wrong? That's not a real argument its an AtE attempt to make me doubt myself.

Like, I don't necessarily discount the possibility of it coming from town!you but its not a real thought.

[Thestatusquo]

Appreciate it boo. (thats meant sincerely not snidely.)

[Thestatusquo]

It's weird you're not considering gamma.

[Thestatusquo]

UNVOTE:
tbone who do you think is stds partner

[Thestatusquo]

I can't help but feel like tbone has mostly been pushing on scum this game and mostly not pushing on miselims.

I'm not even talking about reads I just feel like most of his actions have pushed the game to places where scum would be limmed. I could be wrong in that memory but that's my impression of his play overall.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think what I am saying is at all continent on him being right. I was also on furtive and enchant. I just think there have been multiple points during the game where he was taking actions that led to norwee and shirou being more likely to be limmed which I doubt I would see if he were aligned with them.

[Thestatusquo]

can u describe more what u think abt this stuff

more than...that giant paragraph he just posted?

[Thestatusquo]

I just do not think it makes any sense for both shirou and psyche to be actively bussing psyche in an almost won game state.

[Thestatusquo]

*shirou and norwee

[Thestatusquo]

Why would scum bus in that situation. There was residual pressure on you coming from me it seems like it would have been pretty trivial for scum to get you miselimed and then get someone else.

[Thestatusquo]

I haven't thought too much outside of the implications of the psyche slot. In a world where all scum is bussing psyche i think std is probably the most likely partner there also.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think it's a bus in either scenario. I am saying if it IS a bus, i don't think the scum team wouldn't go all in.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not saying "two couldn't but three could."

I am saying if someone read me psyches role PM right now and it was red, I would expect the full scum team to be bussing and not just two.

I think both situations are incredibly unlikely.

[Thestatusquo]

I agree with Std that if anything the antagonistic person here has been you gamma.

[Thestatusquo]

As far as I can tell STD is just "playing mafia" right now.

This emotional response seems entirely disproportional.

[Thestatusquo]

I point this out simply because it really singes my cookies when I feel like I'm being completely reasonable and someone starts attacking me for being rude or mean to them or whatever and no one else in the thread jumps in to say that they think its not true.

Gamma, I think you're out of line here.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't have a problem with you being hurt by something, I have a problem with you then reacting by telling him he's being fucking petty in all cops and then posting a video saying how much you don't care.

Should note this is completely OOG for me.

[Thestatusquo]

If you're upset feel free to tell someone you're upset. That does not give you the right to lash out at them and it helps no one when you do.

[Thestatusquo]

Ok.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm pretty unsure what I want to do in this game. My head is telling me that most worlds include STD scum, my head also tells me that his play matches what I would think scum play would look like re: norwee and shirou. My heart is telling me that STD sounds legitimately townie today.

[Thestatusquo]

Is that a trick question?

[Thestatusquo]

Probably sircakez the most IG, I've still not forgotten about the norwee post either and that is still shaping some amount of my worldview.

[Thestatusquo]

If it's not you I probably just have to reevaluate everything completely, because that means the norwee post was actually just completely nothing.

[Thestatusquo]

I would probably be forced to reevaluate my sheepsaysmeep town read a bunch.

[Thestatusquo]

I think its pretty likely scum std challenges like he did too, in order to either distance or just to try to get a pool where theres another lim candidate.

[Thestatusquo]

wait let him cook.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm most interesting in the shirou and norwee associatives with cakez but I've kind of been too lazy to pull them myself.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: sircakez

[Thestatusquo]

Absolute boob is a great insult.

[Thestatusquo]

Suspect i know which side std and cakez will come down.

[Thestatusquo]

eh fuck it.

challenge STD

[Thestatusquo]

Gun to my head its STD-Sheep, IG, distant third for me in the PoE would be Gamma, I guess you could swap gamma and sheep but I still just don't really see a world where STD isnt scum and I guess I'm just willing to go with it.

[Thestatusquo]

Because I do not think Tbone is scum, I do not think psyche was a bus, I do not think the PT was faked.

This leaves me with three names who can be scum, and I feel like you've been mostly with me on getting shirou and norwee all game so that makes you less likely than the other two, it's mostly that I think you and sheep feel town to me but it kind of feels like one of you two has to be scum unless tbone is absolutely snowing me.

[Thestatusquo]

basically nothing.

[Thestatusquo]

theres been like 15 posts since sheep replaced in and like a third of that is fb.

[Thestatusquo]

I know you think that but I think it is just extremely unlikely that there is a scum-scum pt with that much detail that dunn could comb through with all the events happening in the right place.

Is it possible? Sure IG but I'm happy ignoring that possibility because I think its minute and quite frankly I dont understand why you seem to be continually focused on something that is possible but extremely unlikely vs what is waaaaay more likely here which is that alisae was just town.

[Thestatusquo]

I agree, it would be incredibly easy for me to conclude that slot is scum because that would mean my initial read of norwee shirou alisae all being scum would be right and I'm not immune to wanting to feed my ego, I just feel like occams razer is a very useful mafia tool.

[Thestatusquo]

tbh this feels a lot like gamma knows she will eventually have to miselim dunn to win this game.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't really think anyone has adequately explained to me the motivation.

I understand that could theoretically be motivation for having some stuff going on in your pt so you don't have to think of it off the cuff when asked about it, that makes sense to me. I am a little less clear on what people think the motivation would be for cosplaying as town for 16 pages complete with what seem like genuine emotional responses. That is far and away beyond what is necessary to have some stuff to talk about if you get asked, and I am extremely certain that scum wouldn't bother with it. I could see there being a desire to lie about your PT being more active than it is, and having some stuff in there so you can bring up specifics later, but people arguing that scum can do it to this degree seem to be completely ignoring that this is not that.

The only other motivation I can think of would be exactly what happened: Which is that one of them replaces out, and then the person who replaced them has a big laundry list of things to confirm themselves with, but that strikes me as far and away beyond the scope of what the vast majority of players would do in a game of mafia, and I just simply don't believe that happened here. Most players don't make eventualities when they're not planning on replacing out from the start of the game in case they ever do replace out so the person who replaced them can confirm themselves.

That is just simply not how people's minds work usually, so I am willing to completely discount it as a possibility.

It's an extremely strange argument that both sheep and gamma are making that this is not only something that could happen, but rather something that is LIKELY TO have happened when I think it is so ridiculously more likely to have not been what happened that it makes me think both of them are being driven with an agenda.

[Thestatusquo]

I just think it's fairly reasonable lol

they even seem like they'd have fun doing it and it would improve their in-thread wolfing to role-play it that far lol, just a guess

no one has to replace out.. they just have to get asked about it, which would totally happen
even we are getting asked about our PT despite never referencing it as meaningful
and then gets confirmed as not w/w by your logic

for example
-shirou flips wolf
-alisae please justify how you were so pocketed
-you know what here's everything so u guys can decide for yourselves
-wow what a real conversation that would never be between 2 wolves

What percentage of s-s pts look like this do you think?

[Thestatusquo]

it works but I'm not joining a discord server just to read that.

[Thestatusquo]

there's literally no way its 90%, that's an absurd claim.

If its that high you should have no problem providing me with many examples of it happening on MU that I could look at.

So far we only have the one example from gamma which she walked back as being not as detailed as she remembered it being.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't really think anyone has adequately explained to me the motivation.

I understand that could theoretically be motivation for having some stuff going on in your pt so you don't have to think of it off the cuff when asked about it, that makes sense to me. I am a little less clear on what people think the motivation would be for cosplaying as town for 16 pages complete with what seem like genuine emotional responses. That is far and away beyond what is necessary to have some stuff to talk about if you get asked, and I am extremely certain that scum wouldn't bother with it. I could see there being a desire to lie about your PT being more active than it is, and having some stuff in there so you can bring up specifics later, but people arguing that scum can do it to this degree seem to be completely ignoring that this is not that.

The only other motivation I can think of would be exactly what happened: Which is that one of them replaces out, and then the person who replaced them has a big laundry list of things to confirm themselves with, but that strikes me as far and away beyond the scope of what the vast majority of players would do in a game of mafia, and I just simply don't believe that happened here. Most players don't make eventualities when they're not planning on replacing out from the start of the game in case they ever do replace out so the person who replaced them can confirm themselves.

That is just simply not how people's minds work usually, so I am willing to completely discount it as a possibility.

It's an extremely strange argument that both sheep and gamma are making that this is not only something that could happen, but rather something that is LIKELY TO have happened when I think it is so ridiculously more likely to have not been what happened that it makes me think both of them are being driven with an agenda.

Okay first I think you’re misinterpreting me, because I don’t really have a likelihood value judgement on the PT situation and won’t have one until I compare Shirou’s thing with Dunnstral’s, second what’s so agenda driven about saying that’s the likely scenario? I remember a wiki article about possibility vs. probability and how scum tend to push possibilities to open up options while Town try to focus on what’s probable. If I was saying it was the likely scenario, I think that should make me townier?

In this situation you are literally doing the opposite. You are ignoring the extremely way more likely scenario in order to push a narrative that it COULD happen and therefore we shouldn't clear dunn.

It's like LITERALLY the opposite. You are LITERALLY doing the thing that you are saying the article says scum are more likely to do to keep open the option that alisae's slot could be scum.

[Thestatusquo]

Please quote the parts of my post which are incompatible with the claim that you are pushing a narrative that is incredibly unlikely in order to keep open the option.

[Thestatusquo]

like I get I said at the end that I thought it was odd that you were pushing it as something that was likely to be the case however I thought it was extremely clear from context that I don't think it is likely to be the case and I think it is absurd that both of you are claiming it is.

I think you're vastly overstating the amount that this happens.

[Thestatusquo]

And like maybe you haven't explicitly claimed that its likely to happen, but that's the point, no? By continually bringing it up you are suggesting that its a thing a) I ought to consider while sorting the slots and b) a thing you ARE considering when sorting the slots.

So which is it? Is it unlikely and I and you shouldn't be considering it and therefore you are bringing it up purely to leave open a hypothetical possibility that is extremely unlikely to have happened in order to leave someone in the lim pool or are you claiming it is likely and are just extremely and verifiably wrong?

PEDIT: Thats semantic garbage, I already addressed it.

[Thestatusquo]

That's not responsive at all.

Which is it, is it unlikely or is it likely gamma? If it's unlikely why are you ignoring that? If its likely please provide evidence for this claim

[Thestatusquo]

So you refuse to take a stance on if the PT is real or fake?

[Thestatusquo]

eh fuck it again

Swap in Gammas team

VOTE: gamma emerald

[Thestatusquo]

Nothing you've said today reads as a genuine attempt to find the scum team, complete with the omgus when I'm pressing your weird position on a completely reasonable thing for you to have an opinion on.

[Thestatusquo]

Gamma has convinced me she's scum today, simple as that. The position doesnt make sense, jumping to overdefensive nonsense when called on the parts that don't make sense, including and up to OMGUS.

The general argument serves to keep dunn in the lim pool when I think dunn should be clear and refusing to see probabilities and even in fact refusing to even discuss probabilities when that is the overall result is highly anti-town.

[Thestatusquo]

bus your buddy std.

[Thestatusquo]

Yeah the fact that you've been trying to set up the potential for my miselim too is not actually a point in your favor or something I missed.

[Thestatusquo]

ok, it doesn't make sense.

[Thestatusquo]

it legitimately doesn't but I have no interest in getting into a wifom fight with someone who doesnt appear to be engaging in good faith.

[Thestatusquo]

Why would you have an already cooked up big point in your defense when you've been under roughly zero pressure this whole game

[Thestatusquo]

What does reactionary even mean in this context? All of mafia is reactionary.

[Thestatusquo]

That seems like a pretty slimy description of what just happened, and one that tries to assume there needs to be a progression when in fact I don't need a progression when someone does something that I think is way more likely to come from scum.

But as for my thoughts on gamma from earlier perhaps you could do your own homework.

[Thestatusquo]

Yeah didn't really believe you actually cared.

[Thestatusquo]

I strong town read gamma early on in this game and I've kind of drifted the whole game as I didn't see her doing a ton to advance town win con and making a lot of arguments that are at their core +scum equity. The last one is just the latest example. It only benefits scum to keep dunn in the lim pool when the probability of dunn being scum is extremely low because the probability of that PT being svs is extremely low.

Gammas argument is disingenuous. She's saying that there is a POSSIBILITY that the PT is real but also SvS and keeps bringing it up whenever Dunn comes up but refuses to comment on how likely it is. When asked directly she said "how about no." but a primary function of any good old fashioned bayesian analysis is updating our priors based on the probabilities. Gamma's statement that it COULD be SvS (which is true, however extremely less likely to be true than the alternative) is functionally useless in this context, and when I look at the motivation for why, in this game state, someone might want to make sure we keep the PoE wide with extremely faulty logic, I don't see a lot of motivation on the town side.

Like maybe we're looking at a situation where we want to play around all possibilities and maybe if we get another scum so we have the luxury of more miselims we can think about whether or not dunn should be allowed to endgame or not (I still lean yes) but this is not that game state, and if I were to build a mental model of exactly how scum would be acting right now, it would be attempting to keep the lim pool wide while refusing to narrow themselves down on a target, which is exactly what gamma has been doing.

I also think gamma is extremely prone to OMGUS as scum and less so as town and in the times when she is legitimately suspicious of the person who is sussing her she follows through and attacks. She's not doing that here. I deliberately left myself in the vote pool to see what she would do and she went for sheep instead. She knows she can't get a miselim on me, though she's been trying to soften that up for a while now, so even though she seemed pretty sus of me she chose not to go for it.

Better?

[Thestatusquo]

Same with shirou you don't give a shit to help me out I guess

Just remind me what was shirous alignment again? Weird how the people you keep asking me to "help" you with when the information is right out in the open and then never manage to vote end up being scum.

[Thestatusquo]

I like how you keep bringing that up as if its somehow my fault and my responsibility to find the scum in this game for you, but it's not, and if you had even the slightest bit of curiosity towards shirou's slot you would have seen that very easily, but you didn't and voted for the same person he was voting for instead.

[Thestatusquo]

Like you came into this argument misrepping me and shading my stance here by calling it "reactionary" when in fact all of mafia is reacting to things other people are doing and then you act like this is some sort of grand reach out on your part which I'm rebuffing? Fuck outta here dude.

[Thestatusquo]

I know. You never have.

[Thestatusquo]

So I gave you what you wanted and your response is to AtE woe is me, which doesn't really make it seem like you wanted to engage with the point beyond shading me and once again asking me to do your work for you. So like cut the crap and actually do something to find scum this game how about?

Or just bus your buddy you could do that too.

[Thestatusquo]

You barely have any stances this entire game besides "psyche scum" and there used to be some amount of gamma scum but clearly that HAS changed now that she's actually a possibility to lim.

[Thestatusquo]

The funny thing is that seems non-reactionary, to put a spin on your phrase. What has gamma done that took them from scum to town for you? I see her getting progressively more scummy, not less.

[Thestatusquo]

Absent from that is anything resembling reasoning or an explanation for why gamma is town now for you.

[Thestatusquo]

I am still flabbergasted that anyone thinks that PT was faked. Have you folks ever been inside s-s pts?

[Thestatusquo]

I am using its fake as shorthand for "not made up by two scum players as a form of theatre" and I have never once suggested I meant anything other than that.

[Thestatusquo]

a PT between alisae and scum!shirou that's being transposed in the thread to clear a slot is not something I wanna try to read into and work out that is 'never svs'

I've seen far too much scum theatrics inside of neighborhoods by now to give them any strength. we are knowing what happened from the POV and narrative of ali's slot.

but having said all that, I did not read much of the things from the PT because I wasn't understanding anything when I tried.

I suggest you try a little bit if you want to solve, part of what makes me think its not theatre is just the incredible amount of detail that dunn, a person who had just replaced in and had not read the thread, was able to pull which matched up perfectly with what was going on in the thread. Its not just that dunn was able to be like "oh hey this is what they were talking about" and give some details, it was a full run through of what they were talking about in lock step with what is going on in the thread and I just don't believe for a second it was theatre.

[Thestatusquo]

I think its 95-5 not "less than 50%"

If I were to go into 100 PTs on this site that are s-s I think I would find one that was that active almost never.

Even the ONE example that has been brought up here was later revealed to be not actually that detail filled at all.

[Thestatusquo]

I think sheep is bending over backwards to not put words in anyones mouth here tbh.

[Thestatusquo]

In theory scum!Dunn could just pull from the scum PT and claim it as the private PT if you're really looking for a plausible explanation. But I think I pulled enough interactions from Shirou that really paint that slot as town.

I dont think the scum PT would have so many discussions of reads and thread dynamics. At least, thats not what happens in any scum PT I've ever been in, usually its like "hey who should we push." "herp derp should we bus billy?" "oh fuck they have a cop"

Not much of the "hey sheas reads on norwee are really wrong and its bothering me emotionally"

[Thestatusquo]

like 1 total post discussing this according to Dunn PT summary:

[start of day 3]
357 - Shirou: Is wavering on Psyche being mafia but will pretend to be confident if Alisae wants
358 - Alisae: Thinking about saving up money to send out a lot of messages
359 - Alisae: And disguising the messages as unwanted e-mails
360 - Shirou: Wants to save money for team swaps later
361 - Shirou: Thinks that would be funny if the town was in a good position
362 - Alisae: Responds to 347 saying that Psyche went after Alisae but was not satisfactory, and that Alisae is playing for money

Just this part.

dunn can we get a more in depth break down of these posts?

[Thestatusquo]

like 1 total post discussing this according to Dunn PT summary:

[start of day 3]
357 - Shirou: Is wavering on Psyche being mafia but will pretend to be confident if Alisae wants
358 - Alisae: Thinking about saving up money to send out a lot of messages
359 - Alisae: And disguising the messages as unwanted e-mails
360 - Shirou: Wants to save money for team swaps later
361 - Shirou: Thinks that would be funny if the town was in a good position
362 - Alisae: Responds to 347 saying that Psyche went after Alisae but was not satisfactory, and that Alisae is playing for money

Just this part.

dunn can we get a more in depth break down of these posts?

357 Shirou says they don't know if Psyche is mafia but says that since Alisae was right about Titus they will pretend to be convinced that Psyche is mafia in the main thread. Shirou also says they would have challenged Psyche is alisae didn't
358-361 are close to what I've written
362 is Alisae saying that Psyche went after Alisae and Alisae was hoping that Psyche had a more satisfying case to push Alisae with. Alisae wanted Psyche to push their case more as Alisae says they are playing for money

this seems needlessly abridged.

[Thestatusquo]

specifically the things you did not elaborate on. do you mean that you risk quoting directly if you give more information or clarify?

[Thestatusquo]

specifically what does "thinks that would be funny if the town were in good position" mean?

[Thestatusquo]

The i wouldn't kill pooky argument has already been made, by scum trying to frame me.

[Thestatusquo]

I was entertaining a thought that Shea deliberately went after me after I blew basically all my money on the auction but the highest bidder updates the scum got were also every 24 hours and I only had a high enough bid that I couldn't swap back after the 400 was announced

What? How do you know this?

[Thestatusquo]

I think that’s an entirely pointless question.

It's an entirely pointless question how you know when scum got updates?

[Thestatusquo]

i was trying to push shea off of gamma and got told to fuck off so there's that

This is an extremely ridiculous description of that conversation.

[Thestatusquo]

I wanted to finish up my back read of what I've called winning time.

Spoiler: Posts

ok does any1 here actually think cakes is town

not really

cakez is cool and all but i like the gamestate feeling of psyche wagon

i think u need to be drunk to say this wagon has no resistance

i'll repeat i got to e-1 faster than psyche did yesterday

enchant doesn't want to "waste money" swapping though, so we either need to wait for mini-game to end for a cakez swap or norwee needs to do it

from norwee's reads though he would swap me, and if it's swapping psyche for cakez i'm not sure i agree on that

i think cakez is individually more scummy to me but i've rarely struggled this much to kill someone not loud and i think that's interesting

Here's more telegraphing to the Cakez swap by Shirou. There isn't much information to be gleaned at this point. This next post occurs shortly after, which as we know backfires and basically reveals Norwee and Shirou as scum together. (After we flipped them I mean)

Switch "Team Hyperpost Meta" with "Team Not Cheaters"

I think Norwee does have a really interesting back and forth with me. I'm not sure if they still felt they were winning immediately after the swap, or if because they felt Shirou might get limmed Norwee pulled this desperate play.

Spoiler: Norwee posts

I'd prefer swapping Shirou back in but I can back a Norwee vote.

Oh so you want Psyche limmed but not really because you actually want to lim me.
But you actually scumread Shirou and not Psyche.

Yeah, that’s town and logical.

How much y’all wanna bet on Psyche/Cakez.

Maybe T-Bone is scum too.
T-Bone/Psyche/Cakez?

Last scum prob someone pocketing me. I sus StD here but don’t wanna flip today.

If we say

Pooky

/Alisae/

Shirou

/TSQ/

Enchant

/Gamma are town.
That leaves

Cakez

/Psyche/

T-Bone

/StD/Sheep

I reiterate my desire to lim Shirou. This sets Norwee off into conceiving a scumteam. From psyche and Cakez, to including me, to adding StD and Sheep at the end. I know that I'm town, I know that Cakez is town. I think the evidence really posts to psyche slot as town. Why this inclusion of StD and Sheep? Is to to distance one or both of them? (Please note I bolded the flipped players their alignment, and just for my visualization I added myself as green without bold.)

Spoiler: More Norwee

Yeah logically speaking it makes more sense for Pooky’s team to win. It’s nonsensical to argue otherwise unless any of Pooky/Gamma were scum and TSQ was not.

3 people in the game have suggested i should be limmed.
3 people. 2 of those 3 strongly arguing.

T-Bone, Gamma, TSQ.

Psyche or Cakez could still be an wagon even with a swap. I’m not too worried.

Shirou surviving over me would basically mean my goal is finished even if i’m killed. By confirming Shirou town people will hopefullt to them and not the agency complainer.

I'm not sure why Norwee says Pooky/Gamma should win except to parrot popular sentiment. I guess since Norwee was arguing with Shea, Norwee couldn't suggest Shea should win. I think the second post is interesting. Norwee lists three players, myself, Shea, and Gamma, and says two people are arguing strongly for their lim. I assume that Norwee means Shea and I are strongly arguing for their lim because we were the two players Norwee was arguing with. So I'm not sure what Gamma had to do with this post. I quickly checked around this post and Gamma was not interacting with Norwee at all, she was interacting with Shea and Pooky about the lazer game. Finally Norwee implying that Shirou's reads are ones we should follow. I think Shriou's reads were similar, but that's something else I want to check.

By the way, who shot me?

I've talked a lot about that second post a lot. I still kind of think it's a slip and was meant for the pt which of course makes my current vote on gamma bad and the team std and sheep. But i guess i don't really think sleep is scum so maybe I'm just wrong about that post.

[Thestatusquo]

viewtopic.php?p=13638052#p13638052

Read my posts from here

[Thestatusquo]

If I'm being completely honest I just want this game to end.

[Thestatusquo]

Fuck it VOTE: std

[Thestatusquo]

That's only 3 isn't it?

[Thestatusquo]

Oh he didn't use vote tags so i missed it. Honestly std if you're town I'm sorry but i don't think I'm ever getting past you in this Poe and i just want this game to be over tbh.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: std

[Thestatusquo]

Why are you not hammering now gamma

[Thestatusquo]

because I wanna work this out first

you literally just put him to e-1 for a hammer like 30 seconds ago.

[Thestatusquo]

I do not agree gamma is town.

[Thestatusquo]

Yeah bruh the guy who fought tooth and nail last phase to put dun in the town clear pool and directly led to the lims on shirou and norwee could be scum good point I'm just the worst fucking scum player of all time. Turbo bus every single one of my buddies and fight to keep the susp. townies out of the POE and not let people lim them.

[Thestatusquo]

Yeah bruh the guy who fought tooth and nail last phase to put dun in the town clear pool and directly led to the lims on shirou and norwee could be scum good point I'm just the worst fucking scum player of all time. Turbo bus every single one of my buddies and fight to keep the susp. townies out of the POE and not let people lim them.

yeah and you think I kill Dunn here? You're past Pluto with how far-out your thought process is.

huh its almost like scum kill people who it doesnt necessarily make sense to kill literally all the time just so they can make the argument you just made, again, literally the same thing shirou already did THIS GAME.

In fact, there's no reason for scum to kill at all right now so the fact that someone did kill makes me think that someone was REALLY interested in using that argument. And frankly, I'm really tired of playing this game and the way I see it we have a 50-50 shot So I'm gunna vote you and if you don't get hammered immediately you're scum and if you do then I get to stop playing this game.

VOTE: Gamma[/b]

Fine with either outcome tbh.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: gamma

[Thestatusquo]

if gamma doesn't get piled on she's scum.

if this was a gambit on her part to seem townie by killing and betting that she would be able to talk to a sheep elim she underestimated my desire for this game to just end.

[Thestatusquo]

I mean I'm not moving my vote so like, scum has all the time in the world to plan.

I guess technically it doesn't mean she's scum but it does force today into a 1v1 of me and gamma.

[Thestatusquo]

because if she doesnt get double voted here she's either scum or I am.

[Thestatusquo]

GG scum.

STD was right about everything and I was wrong about everything. Consider this an apology.

I played the first half of this game great and the second half like a raging dumpster fire.

I can't believe tbone would betray me like this after the hours we spent playing rocket league together.

[Thestatusquo]

I think tbone played pretty masterfully. He wasn't ever remotely in my PoE.

[Thestatusquo]

And if someone ever sees me sign up for this style of gladiator game ever again please punch me in the face and force out me.

[Thestatusquo]

Oh yeah thank you firebringer. I didn't enjoy this game but that's not your fault, well designed and modded. I just don't think I like these kinds of lim restrictions.

[Thestatusquo]

I think tbone played pretty masterfully. He wasn't ever remotely in my PoE.

Thank you.

I'm sorry to say when you read the scum PT later you were a big component of my strategy.

I never read PTs later. It never makes me feel good.

[Thestatusquo]

I think it was good design used very badly by members of the town. No one waited for challenges lolol. Meanwhile I'm out here spending no coins the entire game.

I think the structure of how money was given out incentivized town to play pretty impulsively in some places, this is one of them.

[Thestatusquo]

I really just fucking let myself be pocketed by TBone here, huh

[Thestatusquo]

cheet playing mafia would always be a welcome sight.

[Thestatusquo]

yes. join us.

[Thestatusquo]

Always ignore meta reads that can't be articulated and verified by yourself.

Abusing it is just good play.

[Thestatusquo]

People are generally way to credulous of garbage like that