Amnesiac Mafia: The Movie! That's a Wrap!

[Dunnstral]

-town points for spelling Mississippi wrong

Wish I could blame it on chatgpt but i wrote it all myself.

I am going to intermittently continue the scene because i didn't get the role pm i wanted and i am going to have to fun somehow

What does this mean? Did you read the setup?

[Dunnstral]

What's the point of theme games then?

How many theme games have you played where somebody is roleplaying?

[Dunnstral]

Wait is this going to be the first game where I am being consensus townread on page 2?
Rather than consensus scumread on that page, that is.

Hold up, who is townreading you on page 2? I went back and checked and didn't see it.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Firebringer

[Dunnstral]

There is something in post 26 I do not like. Instead of saying yes/no you gave an answer that I don't really know what you're saying, and then voted me for who knows what. So we can cross votes, sure.

[Dunnstral]

I’ll scumread you too just to make you feel comfortable

Thanks! Not used to being townread before page 10.

I see now that Klick is townreadin you, but why are you acting like everybody is?

[Dunnstral]

I don't care if you roleplay but why does 57 seem so aggressive over nothing?

Also it is 2023 and it is no longer socially acceptable to use mental illness as an insult anymore.

[Dunnstral]

Cowboy turns back to Old Man (Dunnstral) who nows begins rambling nonsense as if he is schizo.

Cowboy: Hey, Old Man. What in tarnation are you yammering on about?
Old Man: Sonny boy, did you even read?
Cowboy: Read what? [The cowboy is about to figure out talking to this man might be a waste of his time but continues anyways]

This isn't aggressive/insulting?

[Dunnstral]

26 is me talking about how i was not happy i didn't get a scum pm.

OK. This is an answer to what I was asking. What you posted in 57 was not - why did you choose to make this more difficult?

Additionally, why did you vote for me in post 57?

[Dunnstral]

Why did you vote for me in post 57?

[Dunnstral]

I wasn't attempting to insult you or be aggressive with roleplay and I really can't fathom how you see it that way,

You said "rambling nonsense as if he is schizo." and "talking to this man might be a waste of his time".

You don't see how that is insulting/aggressive? Really?

[Dunnstral]

I think that BlueSnakelet looks awkward here.


Their first post, 28, gives me that feeling. After that they banter for a bit and then in post 44 seem to say "what's the point of theme games" in response to someone else not liking roleplay. I feel this is a weird stance to have as usually this kind of thing is not present in theme games. I'm not sure where BlueSnakelet is coming from here.

[Dunnstral]

I see value in the question but I don't think I see it in the way you asked it. Obviously Feysal does not agree because they said so in the very post you're quoting so I am not sure what useful information you actually are trying to provoke, unless you're trying to get them to change their mind in which case its a pretty half assed attempt at that as well.

I wanted them to look into the behaviors and tell me why one is aggressive and the other isn't. Can you let things progress?

They didn't say I was aggressive, they seemed to suggest the opposite, no? I believe aggressive was your own choice of words.

[Dunnstral]

OK I see you are talking about Dragoneater

[Dunnstral]

It was a difference in tone. Dunnstral was asking questions, but Dragon seemed angry at Firebringer for the act and voted them for it.

Meh. I feel like Dunnstral felt a little angry in his tone, but we can agree to disagree

I'm not angry. But I'm also not going to entertain someone being difficult just for the sake of it. I ended up asking Fire the same question multiple times because he was not answering it. I did mean what I said about using mental health as an insult as being in bad taste but I'm not taking it personally.

[Dunnstral]

I was not aware that Firebringer preferred playing as mafia and so I didn't know what post 26 meant in the context of the game's special role system. I thought maybe they didn't understand how the game worked. I didn't like that instead of answering me they made that post and voted me and then I feel danced around calling me scummy instead of answering what I was saying. I found it took them a long time to articulate what exactly they took issue with in my posting, and then even then never really went into detail, instead preferring broad statements akin to "I didn't like it".

Yes I've played with Firebringer before

[Dunnstral]

He has played dozens of games with me.
And I listed him as one of the people i was hyped to play a game with.

Ive actually always considered dunny to be a mafia friend. So the fact he took my rp as insulting him, was just really baffling to me.

Theres a lot of things to unpackage there I just don't want to right now.

As soon as I started posting you said it wasn't worth listening to me? Did you not?

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE: Firebringer

Going to make an effort to be voting for who I think the scummiest player is as opposed to who is annoying me the most because I owe it to my team and anybody else who wants to try hard to win this. Not sure who else I would vote yet so I'll go to bed and wait for new posts to look over and hopefully talk about something else besides Firebringer tomorrow.


I don't agree with 162 about Feysal. I find Feysal's explanation believable, at least. DragonEater basically hinted that they'd push Firebringer if they kept up the roleplaying, whereas I focused on other things and only shifted my tune when Firebringer "came at me".

So for my first 3 posts, which I believe Feysal is talking about, I would say that I do not appear aggressive, whereas DragonEater can look that way, and I am biased in saying this but I can see how Feysal could see my posts as solving but not DragonEater's early posts.

[Dunnstral]

BlueSnakelet Mafia; my thoughts are in post 75
Pink ball Town; I like that they are going after Dragoneater early in post 56 as I find them a little weird at this point too, I like that their few posts recently are taking stances instead of continuing to banter.
Black Town; I like how they are questioning/pushing things

[Dunnstral]

I feel it is pretty uncharitable to say I focus solely on your roleplaying when I have tried to move away from it and focus on the core of my issues with you instead, and as I have explained I have had to ask you multiple times to get you to answer the questions I was asking you. In fact I'd say that I have never been focused on your roleplaying at all, but on the content which I found in poor taste.

[Dunnstral]

What specifically do you like Dunn?

108, 116, 122, 125, 133, 154, 181

These are posts that I liked

[Dunnstral]

Why? What is being pushed aside from semantics?

I'm not sure how to answer this. I don't agree with you, though; I'd need you to show me how they are only pushing semantics in order for me to explain how it's not, or if it matters at all. I generally like what they are doing, and can point to those posts.

[Dunnstral]

So what does this serve? To me this looks like seeing if he can see what i know of the setup to push me for it depending on the response.

So what does this serve? To me this looks like seeing if he can see what i know of the setup to push me for it depending on the response.

But I didn't push you for that when you finally answered me, right? In post 189.

[Dunnstral]

Why? What is being pushed aside from semantics?

I'm not sure how to answer this. I don't agree with you, though; I'd need you to show me how they are only pushing semantics in order for me to explain how it's not, or if it matters at all. I generally like what they are doing, and can point to those posts.

I too can select posts from someone's ISO and claim they are "questioning/pushing things". If I am going to go to bat for you with my biggest townread, I need more.

You asked me for 3 reads, the black read is a little strained in order to fit the quota of 3. I didn't want to include Firebringer and I didn't want to Include Feysal because while I don't agree with the reason to scumread on them the only reason I have to think they are town is that they are slightly going to bat for me, which isn't strong reasoning, so they are more neutral for me right now still.

Would it clear things up if I said I was leaning town on Black but wasn't sure based on what we have seen so far, instead of saying "town". I'm also not voting for snake right now as I'm not sure they're not just looking awkward right now.

[Dunnstral]

I've never played with Black before, if that is what you are looking for

[Dunnstral]

Wait is this going to be the first game where I am being consensus townread on page 2?
Rather than consensus scumread on that page, that is.

Hold up, who is townreading you on page 2? I went back and checked and didn't see it.

I’ll scumread you too just to make you feel comfortable

Thanks! Not used to being townread before page 10.

I see now that Klick is townreadin you, but why are you acting like everybody is?

Basically I saw 46 as Titus saying she townread me. Maybe I misinterpreted her post.
Anyhow, I didn't mean to imply that EVERYONE was townreading me, but I was sincerely surprised to see 2 townreads (or so I thought) by page 2.

I think that is a fair interpretation that I missed

[Dunnstral]

On page 3

He also ends it with saying not sure where snek is coming from but yet doesn't pursue it to ask Snek questions of what he is thinking or where thoughts are. Theres no curiosity there. Its not hunting. Its X is awkward and here is a weird take.

I did ask Snake a question in 54 and they haven't posted since.

[Dunnstral]

That's not blaming Snake, but it is incorrect to say that I am not questioning them

[Dunnstral]

And in fact the question I asked Snake is exactly what I am talking about in that other post where I say I don't know where they are coming from.

[Dunnstral]

I missed your post because I was spending time replying to the 2 above it.

It is not really of concern to me whether Black is "generic" or not... again, I would need somebody to show me why that is scummy instead of asking me to do the reverse, because I don't even see that as scummy or a bad thing in the first place without explanation.

I want to say that this is more of a tone read than one based on the strength of their arguments. I think that they are trying to push things in a town direction, at least, in the questions they choose to ask feeling at least a little important rather than being busy work.

[Dunnstral]

When they were questioning Feysal they were getting Feysal to explain the difference between how they saw Dragon and how they saw me. I think that was trying to uncover Feysal's motives and pushing things in a town direction. And I'll point again to post 125 and say that that feels like town to me.

[Dunnstral]

They wanted Feysal to answer and what you were asking was why they were asking Feysal that question. I feel that it is fair for them to say that they want Feysal to answer first

[Dunnstral]

If they answered to you why they were questioning Feysal then that influences Feysal's answer

[Dunnstral]

Why? What is being pushed aside from semantics?

I'm not sure how to answer this. I don't agree with you, though; I'd need you to show me how they are only pushing semantics in order for me to explain how it's not, or if it matters at all. I generally like what they are doing, and can point to those posts.

I too can select posts from someone's ISO and claim they are "questioning/pushing things". If I am going to go to bat for you with my biggest townread, I need more.

You asked me for 3 reads, the black read is a little strained in order to fit the quota of 3. I didn't want to include Firebringer and I didn't want to Include Feysal because while I don't agree with the reason to scumread on them the only reason I have to think they are town is that they are slightly going to bat for me, which isn't strong reasoning, so they are more neutral for me right now still.

Would it clear things up if I said I was leaning town on Black but wasn't sure based on what we have seen so far, instead of saying "town". I'm also not voting for snake right now as I'm not sure they're not just looking awkward right now.

Why would you strain a read rather than say you have nothing?

I didn't have nothing. And besides, i wanted to do my best to answer Titus.

[Dunnstral]

BlueSnakelet Mafia; my thoughts are in post 75

Wait, am I being scumread for liking roleplay?

What's the point of theme games then?

How many theme games have you played where somebody is roleplaying?

One. This one.

I think that BlueSnakelet looks awkward here.

Their first post, 28, gives me that feeling. After that they banter for a bit and then in post 44 seem to say "what's the point of theme games" in response to someone else not liking roleplay. I feel this is a weird stance to have as usually this kind of thing is not present in theme games. I'm not sure where BlueSnakelet is coming from here.

I asked "what's the point of theme games" in response to someone trying to stop someone else from roleplaying. But even if you're "not sure where I'm coming from", how is this a scumread?

I think the last point you repeated here is awkward because theme games aren't typically used for roleplaying. So with that in mind I don't know what you are talking about when you say that; and you seem to agree that you haven't seen this before.

I later go on to say:

[Dunnstral]

I'm also not voting for snake right now as I'm not sure they're not just looking awkward right now.

[Dunnstral]

Bluesnakelet I will admit that it was premature for me to call you mafia based on what you have given so far. And that I jumped the gun in post 198. I still think post 75 is fine on its own as explaining what I am wary about you as I find that to be strange.

[Dunnstral]

Guys I re-read FB vs Dunn and honestly I've been scumreading both, but now I want to individually TR each one of them for making a good push on a scummy slot.
I'm honestly confused.

What pushes are you talking about?

[Dunnstral]

Lady Lambdadelta's thoughts in my own words:

Titus is fence sitting really hard this game. She is capable of playing this worthlessly as town, but not with a team she has to look out for and with other players she respects.

This is me/Firebringer town and Titus faking reads on both to position herself where she needs to be. She is going out of her way to be middle of the road.

Thestatusquo is almost a scumread because he is asking Titus all these questions and trying to get answers when personality wise he should just be voting her right now to force an answer.

Feysal is town for getting overwhelmed in their interaction with Firebringer.

Klick is town for having sane posts after some other rough posts in the thread.

Black is maybe town due to interactions with Thestatusquo, but both are unlikely to be town together.

DragonEater feels too naive to be mafia and is a gut town read. They would be getting more direction as mafia.

Pink Ball is mafia for the interaction with Feysal about the drinking game being an attempt to be a social townie and slip under the radar.

Also there is at least one lurker mafia right now. Maybe just the one and it is Titus, Thestatusquo, Pink Ball, and one more. The rest of the active posters feel like town.

VOTE: Titus

[Dunnstral]

Peta says hi Firebringer

[Dunnstral]

What are petapans reads and why is he so gr8

He hasn't looked at the game

[Dunnstral]

LLD did miss that actually but it's an empty quote vote and you are being soft on Titus and letting her get away while FB and I were dueling. Attempting to make it look like LLD is not reading the game is not a townie response to pressure and it's a discredit that no one can veritably prove. In the text you quoted above LLD has made points about specific interactions to it is pretty clear she is reading.

[Dunnstral]

LLD did miss that actually but it's an empty quote vote and you are being soft on Titus and letting her get away while FB and I were dueling.

Attempting to make it look like LLD is not reading the game is not a townie response to pressure

and

it's a discredit that no one can veritably prove

. In the text you quoted above LLD has made points about specific interactions to

it is pretty clear she is reading

.

Just curious, are these your thoughts or LLD's?

Having our teammates play the game too is going to get hella confusing. Now I have to read 40+ people? XD

LLD's

[Dunnstral]

Lady Lambdadelta's thoughts in my own words:

Impressive amount of reads. I have not heard a peep from my team, and I'm not sure they are aware this game has started.

One question though. How is getting overwhelmed alignment indicative? I did feel like I was having trouble, but it was with the pace of the posting, to the point that people had to repeat questions aimed at me.

I concur on Titus being hard to pin down this game. Dragon asked for my opinion on her, and I looked at some of my past games with her where she seemed much more open.

I misinterpreted this, they said you were deep in the weeds and meant that when you saw Firebringer go on me and you decided to spend your early game time going after Firebringer, going into that argument at the exclusion of everything else

[Dunnstral]

Shea, who, besides me, is town?

LAMIST coaching?

What does this mean?

[Dunnstral]

LLD's

I'm wondering if we can set a game standard where we tag our teammates thoughts if we are going to include them in the game. I feel like it's important to know which thoughts are yours and which thoughts are your teammates

I'm wondering how the thread feels about this and if this is an unfair request?

I can make things more clear next time.

[Dunnstral]

oo emotional defense from dunn really. no try to sort back FB even though the first poke was him going on FB tail.

That isn't emotional defense.

[Dunnstral]

this post seems to have a lot of linked reads I don't feel these reads are all but I guess people have different intuitive to follow.

I really want you to elaborate the red one cause it makes no sense

I talk about it in a bit, keep reading

[Dunnstral]

I had considered Shea early on, but his responses to Black and Dunn had me rule that out. Dunn's completely unmoored and inaccurate comments on Black's play were just wrong. Shea and I were pretty in sync on that being off. My team had felt Black's posting was hollow even before Dunn's read. Synergy in thought, not just conclusion, means a fair bit to me.

I'm ok with exploring FA and Klick more.

How are my comments on Black's play "unmoored and innacurate", exactly?

[Dunnstral]

I had considered Shea early on, but his responses to Black and Dunn had me rule that out. Dunn's completely unmoored and inaccurate comments on Black's play were just wrong. Shea and I were pretty in sync on that being off. My team had felt Black's posting was hollow even before Dunn's read. Synergy in thought, not just conclusion, means a fair bit to me.

I'm ok with exploring FA and Klick more.

How are my comments on Black's play "unmoored and innacurate", exactly?

Because they aren't matching with what's going on in the thread...

This was not your objections earlier.

You were saying I wasn't going into enough detail. Then you said they were posting semantics but those weren't my words. How was what I was saying wrong?

[Dunnstral]

I've played like 3ish games in a row with Titus where she has been scum and in this game I'm getting a zeal from her that I haven't felt in other games. I think she's engaged her town solving brain in a way that she wasn't quite there for in the last few games I've been in with her.

It could be Team Mafia making her tryhard even if she's scum but I'm enjoying her content so far regardless and am fine to boost what she's currently doing for the thread.

LLD says that the zeal could be explained by finally rolling town, or it could be that this is a large event that most people are excited for. Meaning zeal and enthusiasm aren't really AI this game.

[Dunnstral]

I had considered Shea early on, but his responses to Black and Dunn had me rule that out. Dunn's completely unmoored and inaccurate comments on Black's play were just wrong. Shea and I were pretty in sync on that being off. My team had felt Black's posting was hollow even before Dunn's read. Synergy in thought, not just conclusion, means a fair bit to me.

I'm ok with exploring FA and Klick more.

How are my comments on Black's play "unmoored and innacurate", exactly?

Because they aren't matching with what's going on in the thread...

This was not your objections earlier.

You were saying I wasn't going into enough detail. Then you said they were posting semantics but those weren't my words. How was what I was saying wrong?

Because you said Black "progressed the game" or similar non sense when she was bickering over agression. When called out, you hedged rather than defend the point. Black has refused repeatedly to be held to a position.

Black's play on mass claim is practically begging town to mass claim or offering Feysal up as a lim but doesn't commit to either angle. Black's feeling the room and has been.

I've defended the point plenty:

When they were questioning Feysal they were getting Feysal to explain the difference between how they saw Dragon and how they saw me. I think that was trying to uncover Feysal's motives and pushing things in a town direction. And I'll point again to post 125 and say that that feels like town to me.

And have also made it clear that this was a weak early read because you asked me for three reads early.

[Dunnstral]

oo emotional defense from dunn really. no try to sort back FB even though the first poke was him going on FB tail.

That isn't emotional defense.

It really was a little bit emotional tbh. Like you had counter points but it felt like you're angry at FB for how he went that avenue on you. I actually think it's a sign that the argument between you and him was natural but a very weak sign for that

about this

I really think you were not trying to sort FB back there that feels out of place. I care more about that then about the emotion in it.

Oh it was emotional? OK thanks for telling me how I felt.

Look, I was clearly trying to sort Firebringer. I started this interaction by questioning them, and voted for them when they didn't answer me. I've explained what I think about Firebringer a few times.

I do not like this push from you.

[Dunnstral]

I liked FA's entrance and her thoughts felt like they were coming from a genuine solvey place, however I started to doubt that after reading some of what Klick put down about her. Klick has a couple of good points about why he thinks FA is scummy here even if they aren't very strong. Like they seem like things that would make Klick sus of FA but not necessarily things that could get others onboard. FA's whole reaction to the Klick push was to discredit it and then jump on Dragon for following it and I feel like this could be interpreted as her going for an easier target

"discredit"

where did I discredit klick's push on me I want you to specifically point out to what you mean when you use that word cause all I did was clarifying to him why what he sees is not scum indicative of me while completely acknowledging what he was seeing without any confrontation

also my vote/scumread on dragon eater is not because of

him agreeing with klick

its because I think he is not, in reality, agreeing with klick, I think he is actually faking reading/following what he wrote about me and just went on sheeping someone who expressed town reading him on their scum read.

why?

truthfully mostly

gut feeling

about how he jumped on that read. but also cause in my head klick made a link between my play here and what he saw before while dragon eater cant make such link in their head like them.

I really think he saw klick posting a meta read and without questioning "is this meta sufficient" or "is this even making sense" sheep it, while klick's doubting himself on forming the meta read before, suggests he is unlike dragon eater and was evaluating that link.

hence I think dragon eater is an opportunistic scum who is using the tr that was expressed on them to steer behind klick on this linked read

I think that this is a plausible theory, but is there any supporting evidence? Why do you think this?

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE: Thestatusquo. Using my suspicion on him to get a read out of Black in #524 was good stuff, in my opinion.

Are you saying that this is something you engineered on purpose?

[Dunnstral]

I think my spiciest scum read is feysal.

They say a lot of words that don't mean a lot.

alright time to wagon feysal lets go.

VOTE: Feysal

I really disagree with this read. I don't see how they are saying words that don't mean anything.

[Dunnstral]

I liked FA's entrance and her thoughts felt like they were coming from a genuine solvey place, however I started to doubt that after reading some of what Klick put down about her. Klick has a couple of good points about why he thinks FA is scummy here even if they aren't very strong. Like they seem like things that would make Klick sus of FA but not necessarily things that could get others onboard. FA's whole reaction to the Klick push was to discredit it and then jump on Dragon for following it and I feel like this could be interpreted as her going for an easier target

"discredit"

where did I discredit klick's push on me I want you to specifically point out to what you mean when you use that word cause all I did was clarifying to him why what he sees is not scum indicative of me while completely acknowledging what he was seeing without any confrontation

also my vote/scumread on dragon eater is not because of

him agreeing with klick

its because I think he is not, in reality, agreeing with klick, I think he is actually faking reading/following what he wrote about me and just went on sheeping someone who expressed town reading him on their scum read.

why?

truthfully mostly

gut feeling

about how he jumped on that read. but also cause in my head klick made a link between my play here and what he saw before while dragon eater cant make such link in their head like them.

I really think he saw klick posting a meta read and without questioning "is this meta sufficient" or "is this even making sense" sheep it, while klick's doubting himself on forming the meta read before, suggests he is unlike dragon eater and was evaluating that link.

hence I think dragon eater is an opportunistic scum who is using the tr that was expressed on them to steer behind klick on this linked read

I think that this is a plausible theory, but is there any supporting evidence? Why do you think this?

LLD thinks that this FA post looks defensive and stilted, like FA is trying to get out from under something instead of arguing something she believes in. And FA fits in as the lurk mafia LLD was looking for.

I (Dunn) am in agreement after having the above framed to me like so, because I am not seeing why FA is thinking this way about Dragoneater so it looks like sowing doubt and trying to deflect. "Getting out from under something" is a good phrase that I'll use again here.

VOTE: Frozen Angel

LLD thinks that Titus might be voting FA thinking that FA can save themself so that Titus can swap their vote later, or worst case get bus cred. Because Titus' vote on FA feels like Titus got there with zero reasoning and is dissonant from their prior take. Giving up on Black and saying "meh" doesn't make sense.

If Titus wants to bus, we should let her bus and then dunk on her tomorrow.

I'm (Dunn) going to add that it is not clear why Titus decided to vote for FA over other options, which I feels lends merit to this being a bus that Titus is not expecting to take off.

[Dunnstral]

Dunn, did LLD tell you that this is the right time to buss?

You are free to engage with the points we've made if you'd like.

[Dunnstral]

I gotta say, Titus is really acting like Black is being unreasonable this game. And I feel Black has been entertaining Titus' requests this whole time, and then Titus acts like it's not good enough and that Black isn't working with Titus.

So to me, Titus is the one being unreasonable here. Scumreading Black is one thing, but acting like they aren't giving you what you are asking for feels.. I don't know, manipulative somehow? It seems bad at least.

[Dunnstral]

Dunn, did LLD tell you that this is the right time to buss?

You are free to engage with the points we've made if you'd like.

What points do u want me to engage with. It looks like ur bussing
It looks like LLD told u to buss and then claim Titus is the one that is doing the bussing.
I agree FA is scummy, I just think ur trying to buss and then say Titus is the scum post flip.

LLD says if I was going to bus we'd put my name on it (Dunn) instead of bringing LLD to the thread and bringing the paranoia that she receives with it.

It's not a matter of what she would or wouldn't do, it's a matter of how aware of her own self they have to be, and that it would be way more effective for me (Dunn) to come up with that point myself if we were mafia.

[Dunnstral]

Fire, LLD says you saw how she coached her scum buddies in the PYP game you replaced into. You should know that LLD makes people say things in their own words. And not putting her face or name on it. So she could have had me take this from my own standpoint. She says you need to shelf your paranoia for a day or two, and that this is team mafia and you're playing like you're staring down the gun from LLD and seeing ghosts.

[Dunnstral]

Wait 15 players.
ugh. Now i have to think about if theres a traitor or fourth.
Alisae said this was multiball at some point but i don't see that mentioned anywhere.

Has there ever been a multiball game in team mafia?

It has to be one team loses, one team wins, right?

[Dunnstral]

I've been avoiding you because you've been annoying me mate. I decided to focus elsewhere.

[Dunnstral]

I feel like some of the comments you have made about me being teamed with people this game does not really jive with you thinking that this is a multiball game, fire

[Dunnstral]

Like in 708 above

[Dunnstral]

Fire, LLD says you saw how she coached her scum buddies in the PYP game you replaced into. You should know that LLD makes people say things in their own words. And not putting her face or name on it. So she could have had me take this from my own standpoint. She says you need to shelf your paranoia for a day or two, and that this is team mafia and you're playing like you're staring down the gun from LLD and seeing ghosts.

I am not interested in limming your slot today. I am just calling out what I see.

LLD says this is the last bit for now because this is my (Dunn's) game and not hers to play, but in response to this:

She gets this but she is town reading you in large part because you don't have a single care about how you come across, but also have to understand as much as LLD can make the arguments she's made any game, it's also possible for you to see this as a possible outcome in any game. There's no real way for LLD to be able to prove that we are not bussing, except FA flipping town.

All we can do is to continue giving reads, be town, and hope that you find us. Our responses to you here are under the concept that you are in fact town and have a chance of finding us. LLD gets that you aren't going to flip us day one, that's a fair shout.

Not flipping us is good, reading us correctly is better.

[Dunnstral]

I read 732 from FA above and feel I need some time to think about it. Or to break it up into little pieces.

-Klick is more analytical than DragonEater
-Dragoneater ignored Klick's analysis and voted for FA
-Dragoneater did not say anything else about FA
-You want Dragoneater to explain Klick's analysis in their own words

[Dunnstral]

9:3:3

Isn't that way too many mafia?

[Dunnstral]

FA are you asking for me to ask LLD something, or are you making your case to the general public in 739

[Dunnstral]

I'll ping LLD but keep in mind that this is also my opinion FA and here are my responses to your points:

what about me choosing dragon eater as next option is "defensive". He was not even casing me/voting me. he just drop 1 line to sheep klick.

DragonEater said:

So I am actually going to say Klick is a townlean of mine (and I was also convinced by their case that FA is scummy here).

So I think it is fair to say that moving the pressure onto DragonEater can be "defensive" here as they seem keen to vote for you, even if they are not currently voting you.

I'm really (and I mean really) not a fan of people who make linked reads like the one you made in day one. especially when they are so shallow like the one you made.

I don't think the read is shallow. I think Titus voting for very little to no reason and not having an explanation for that when called out is a compelling point.

titus vote on me as you said is without any explanation. how did you judge that its a bus or not without knowing any of our alignments or their reasons for voting? the fact you made the link based on nothing makes me think (again call it a gut feeling actually) that there is a chance your read on one side or both side of that link might be fake.

We don't have to "know" your alignments. We are scumreading Titus. We are scumreading you. We think the vote from Titus onto you looks like a bus for reasons we have explained. It feels dissonant with earlier takes and came out of nowhere. The link is not based on "nothing". On top of that, they seem very uninterested in adding any verbal pressure to you beyond their naked vote, and we've seen how into it she can get with Black.

[Dunnstral]

so I asked them to actually repeat what klick found scummy about me. Klick did explain similarities in my playstyle in a multiball game we played in which I was a scum but without actually reading how I actually played in such game how would dragon eater capture the essence of what klick was saying about me to completely jump on that train? I feel like dragoneater dropping a scum read on me in that particular moment was from an opportunistic scum mindset not because they actually read and validated the stuff klick was saying.

OK I see how you got here now.

[Dunnstral]

If it's a vig shot why would it be multiball

[Dunnstral]

The natural result of this interrogation would be to vote me and try to convince others that I'm scum, but Titus has decided that's not worth her time. In 647 she says she doesn't have the energy to fight the thread over me. I find this odd because I'm pretty sure there's only one or two people that have slight townreads on me. The rest are either null or slight SRs. What is this huge fight that Titus is expecting to have here? It doesn't make sense to back down from a surefire scumread over some theoretical fight that she might encounter in order to convince the thread I'm scum. Usually a read with as much conviction as Titus' is accompanied by more than just waving a white flag before the fight even begins

Yes and this is why we are saying that Titus is bussing Frozen Angel right now. Their vote is out of place and they aren't talking about FA. They don't seem to be considering FA's recent posts either, even though Titus has posted since. Titus continues to talk about you.

[Dunnstral]

LAMIST. Also you're on the really bad wagon.

They aren't voting for anyone.

[Dunnstral]

Also you don't talk about DragonEater at all yet that is where your vote ended up. What makes them the worst in the game?

[Dunnstral]

p4
i don't like feysal on tone but i don't know if scum takes the discussion onto massclaiming rather than waiting for town to discuss it
dunnstral seems scummy, posts like 75 just feel forced

You've definitely seen me make posts like that as town before.

[Dunnstral]

I did some review and I'm not sure Save The Dragons wouldn't think that way anymore. They seem to think I lurk and do nothing in all my town games, despite having seen evidence to the contrary.

[Dunnstral]

I'm not sure what to say to that since they're not forced and I don't know why you think they are

[Dunnstral]

TSQ you keep accusing people of ignoring you and I think you're just not being clear since it seems to happen so often. I can't off the top of my head tell you what the 3 examples you gave were or what this latest argument was based off of.

[Dunnstral]

I told Black she looked way less "multi tasking" than her other town games, I don't feel that way anymore and realized that I was getting blindspotted via Titus and Shea

I haven't looked at any other games yet as I didn't want to spoil my initial impressions. If Black's play was organic, you would expect the distribution of engagement to look WAY different than it does.

How so? What would Black's engagement look like?

[Dunnstral]

I do not have the knowledge to tell whether that argument about graph correlation has merit or not.

[Dunnstral]

Guys I re-read FB vs Dunn and honestly I've been scumreading both, but now I want to individually TR each one of them for making a good push on a scummy slot.
I'm honestly confused.

Going for dun as his questions were not hitting anything - makes sense as a read but his way of backing off from that is him trying to stay in a safe position with both slots he had been uncomfortable with. Not neccessirly distancing scum, can be distancing town but its definitely distancing, as if he would want the slots sorted he would probably ask questions of each or try and engage with each/iso read their past posts, make actual assessments about each individual - instead of just saying they both are scum read of his but he town read them for going after each other at same time.

Also on rethinking of the Dunn v FB, I think that Dunn's vote was justified. On the other hand, FB's scumcase is based on something that IS scummy on Dunn's part, but could easily be pushed by scum and therefore doesn't warrant a TR on FB.
Therefore I am no longer TRing FB for pushing Dunn, and am gonna probably vote FB (after I finish the catchup).
For noe though I'll UNVOTE:

again distancing. his two scum read changed to two town read but "those two town read are actually right about what they found scummy on other slot" this is not really being an assertive mindset. Its just going with both flows.

What is "distancing town"?

[Dunnstral]

26 is me talking about how i was not happy i didn't get a scum pm.

OK. This is an answer to what I was asking. What you posted in 57 was not - why did you choose to make this more difficult?

Additionally, why did you vote for me in post 57?

This is just too aggressive though. Like I feel "feelings" behind dun like "anger"? It just doesn't make sense in his posts around this area.

I wasn't attempting to insult you or be aggressive with roleplay and I really can't fathom how you see it that way,

You said "rambling nonsense as if he is schizo." and "talking to this man might be a waste of his time".

You don't see how that is insulting/aggressive? Really?

he is angry for sure. makes me think his push was genuine

I think that BlueSnakelet looks awkward here.

Their first post, 28, gives me that feeling. After that they banter for a bit and then in post 44 seem to say "what's the point of theme games" in response to someone else not liking roleplay. I feel this is a weird stance to have as usually this kind of thing is not present in theme games. I'm not sure where BlueSnakelet is coming from here.

assertive

It was a difference in tone. Dunnstral was asking questions, but Dragon seemed angry at Firebringer for the act and voted them for it.

Meh. I feel like Dunnstral felt a little angry in his tone, but we can agree to disagree

I'm not angry. But I'm also not going to entertain someone being difficult just for the sake of it. I ended up asking Fire the same question multiple times because he was not answering it. I did mean what I said about using mental health as an insult as being in bad taste but I'm not taking it personally.

nah you were angry. or maybe that's not the best choice of word. still could sense strong feelings there.

I will continue to assert that I was not angry. And I disagree that I am "too aggressive" in post 68

[Dunnstral]

Me insisting that Firebringer provide an answer does not mean I am mad or getting emotional. I prefer the word "assertive" as I wasn't willing to let the point go.

[Dunnstral]

Actually I like your effort here. It feels like you're considering both sides instead of having the conclusion in your head already and posting evidence to match your conclusion. I need to spend some more time on your posts FA instead of reflexively responding to stuff.

[Dunnstral]

My thoughts on 1137 which is FA talking about Dragoneater:
I don't understand how you get to "dragoneater can be distancing town" - is that not a mafia strategy? Why would he be doing that as town?
You make it a point to point out that Dragoneater is not being assertive, but I don't think that is a mafia tell. It is more of a personality tell, I feel. Though saying that they are appealing could be a mafia tell.
"He is not solving" - that actually might be the case. I remember people pointed out that he only does things when others prod him to do so.



1139; FA talking about Titus:
I disagree that Titus asking a question about a meta read is "very towny". This isn't difficult to do as mafia, I feel.
Yes you are right that Titus has not conversed with you and the vote doesn't really make sense. See the above point and think about motivations again: She isn't trying to sort you, she is potentially looking for a reason to jump on wagon (this is if you are town and she is mafia)
I disagree with you settling at a town read as I don't think your analysis shows that except for the first point which I disagree with.



1140 FA talking about Me:
Disagreements aside, you appear to be trying to figure out my motives with the emotion talk.
You seem to think assertive = town again, which I don't agree with the premise of.
Response to 755 is fair in that it could be that you were going off of something sus Dragoneater did instead of being reactionary against someone who would vote you.
I wouldn't say I am indecisive about Titus. I don't think that my post about Titus being unfair makes any assumptions that Titus has to be town to do so.



1141 FA talking about Save The Dragons:
I don't think that "consistent method for catching up" warrants anything more than a null read.
The rest is mostly asking questions and wondering why Save The Dragons scumreads you.
Oh and you do acknowledge that "consistent flow" is not AI, Not sure why you are wanting to call them slight town then...? Though you end up at null.



1142FA talking about Kuribo:
I like the part where you analyze Firebringer's motivations and explain that to Kuribo.
And you say the rest of the posts show a natural progression. I agree with that.



1143FA talking about Drixx:
There's that word again, "consistent". I feel that you are off base when you say this.
Saying Drixx feels defensive is a fair point that you back up by saying Save The Dragons has no reasoning.

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE: Frozen Angel

It feels like there is genuine solving going on in the above posts. And that it goes beyond surface level calling people out but tries to consider motivations too.

[Dunnstral]

my biggest problem with my scumreads is feysal and FA seem unaligned because they seem in lock step together against DE so i'm probably wrong somewhere

Unaligned as in not both mafia together? Or are you saying you don't think they are both town either?

[Dunnstral]

FA's content all around feels soulless. She is demonstrating quite a bit of thought but I don't feel like she believes any of it further than her words express.

VOTE: Frozen Angel

This I disagree with after looking through her longer posts. How are you seeing those as soulless?

[Dunnstral]

I think FA has done a lot of busy work with no conclusion.

Also I am actually offended by this. from town or scum you. each of those ise reads took like 30 min to 1 hour

and its obvious you never read any of them before dropping this judgement cause literally 1/3rd of those posts is pure conclusions and evalutions if not more and its so out there for people to see that I cant in any universe believe anyone who read them would ever dare to say something so BS like this about them

I agree that TSQ is being rather dismissive here

[Dunnstral]

Part of the distinction to me is that caught scum emotion DOES frequently feel fake to me. In the sense that they know they are bad so everything is filtered through that lens. Even if a scum player is legitimately frustrated by being "caught for the wrong reasons" as people say there is always that in the background.

For what its worth I tend to think caught for the wrong reasons is kind of a bullshit thing in general.

In my experience town gets just as mad if not more mad when they are being scum read for reasons they think are illegitimate than scum does and in fact it happens more often because town is way more prone to think people scum reading them is illegitimate because they know they're town.

I agree with this. Except I'd say it happens more often to town simply because town are ~4x more common than mafia in any given game

[Dunnstral]

Frankly, I think that FA's outburst is largely justified at the very least in her own mind. I'd be pissed if I put a bunch of work into ISO'ing people and trying to catch up and sort the game state, and then having it brushed away as "souless." Okay, and don't get me wrong, if that's your opinion then it's your opinion. I disagree, I feel like the ISOs especially at the very least had conclusions that you could draw from her thought process. This isn't even a comment on the effort of putting together the ISOs: The thoughts and the reads she's drawn from them are right there on the page.

Are they legitimate conclusions? Perhaps, perhaps not. But it's definitely not soulless.

So from her perspective, she's trying, she just put a bunch of effort into reading and probably re-reading a handful of players, and then Klick comes along and votes her because... it felt soulless? That's just such a bizarre characterization of an activity that I saw as the complete opposite.

I'd probably be annoyed too.

This is a good post. When I saw that FA was putting in substantial effort I felt I needed to try to match that. I didn't like Klick calling it soulless or TSQ sayying it was busy work as I feel those posts sidestep commenting on the posts to call it bad. But I disagree and am not sure why they feel the way they do.

[Dunnstral]

I think maybe "soulless" is the wrong word but Klick's bottom paragraph in 1267 pretty much summarizes how I feel about what I've read from FA. I admit I need to look deeper to get a better feeling here

I don't know it's a feeling I had reading your posts and I haven't deeply analysed it. When I read your analysis of your reads it is missing a level of *belief* that is observable in your posting, because it's all logical arguments and only logical arguments without your own assumptions or perspective. It's a holistic point that applies to all of your deeply-exained reads and not the nitty-gritty details that you want to discuss.

I disagree with this, but it's a matter of taste I guess. I don't see FA's posts as "cold logical arguments". I do think they have assumptions and perspective.

I think that somewhere along the way with Klick's posting they went from arguing that FA is mafia to saying that they can be either alignment based on emotion, so not to take that into consideration, and they aren't really referencing their original point anymore.

---

I see now that Klick is saying they are townreading FA. Well, OK. I think it is fair for TSQ to think that Klick was shutting them down in light of the above.

[Dunnstral]

Pink Ball I feel you are being rude when it isn't really called for

[Dunnstral]

I know nobody read the Black/PB interaction because it was a little overshadowed by the way more interesting Klick/FA stuff, but it felt like he kinda got defensive about me saying Dragon's siteflaking was NAI. Then he said I was trying to shut the conversation down and walked that back by saying I wasn't trying to do it on purpose?

Idk, something feels weird about how PB is pushing the Dragon thing riding a page 2 SR while actively shutting down people that bring up NAI stuff about Dragon

OK let's go back to this

I think you and I are seeing PB in that interaction differently here. You are seeing PB being aggressive about Dragon and trying to shut things down. I am seeing them as a lot more laid back, saying what is on their mind, and trying to clear things up without trying to push strong opinions.

[Dunnstral]

1140 FA talking about Me:
Disagreements aside, you appear to be trying to figure out my motives with the emotion talk.
You seem to think assertive = town again, which I don't agree with the premise of.
Response to 755 is fair in that it could be that you were going off of something sus Dragoneater did instead of being reactionary against someone who would vote you.
I wouldn't say I am indecisive about Titus. I don't think that my post about Titus being unfair makes any assumptions that Titus has to be town to do so.

In general I don't find any action or reaction or behavior towny or scummy standalone. same goes for being "assertive". but this is inherently a town tell as town tries to figure stuff out and assert why scum intends to fake reaching conclusions to set stuff up "in general".

so when I am writing stuff that I see during an iso read or in general, I'm just noting down stuff - not necessarily saying people are town or scum for it. They only are town or scum if the pattern of those tells/notes make more sense in a scum or town mind set.

In your case, I felt the assertive attidue is pretty hungry for solve and not really steering toward certain reads that an informed scum perspective would, so I leaned town on that behavior.

In general, I don't think you're treating titus the same way you're treating other slots in game and it's weird in personality perspective. I think You explained why you scumread titus and you're even making linked reads with her being scum and you being certain of that side of link, yet you're not willing to case her and elaborate your scum read on titus. undecisive is probably not the best way to explain it, dismotivated or not as hungry to grab a bite of this read is a better way to explaining it I hope lmao

so you just calling her unfair and not scum/not questioning her harder on her black read is what I find unfitting

regardless that's my take on your titus read and it just doesn't fit with rest of pattern I noted about you which is the worrisome/unsettling part about your iso for me.

Hungry for a solve, ok that makes sense.

Me not being willing to case Titus? I don't agree with that. I also don't feel that my scum read on Titus is shrouded in mystery, either. I don't feel like I can get Titus eliminated today so I'd say I'm discouraged from continuing to case her. That and she hasn't had much notable activity recently (which may not be AI).

[Dunnstral]

Dragoneater, I still feel he's town. I liked the way he decided to put his money where his mouth is with his vote on me. He's not familiar with my socratic, trapping style. If he's scum, I see him with scum with Shea Dunn or Black only as they were the ones I was disputing.

I like binning ppl as town and I'm real reluctant to go back on a TR without strong evidence.

I feel DragonEater70 wagon is an attempt to save FA.

Why would DragonEater be scum with that list of players?

[Dunnstral]

Dragoneater, I still feel he's town. I liked the way he decided to put his money where his mouth is with his vote on me. He's not familiar with my socratic, trapping style. If he's scum, I see him with scum with Shea Dunn or Black only as they were the ones I was disputing.

I like binning ppl as town and I'm real reluctant to go back on a TR without strong evidence.

I feel DragonEater70 wagon is an attempt to save FA.

Why would DragonEater be scum with that list of players?

Objection to me pushing no opinion players vut demanding mine. Chainsaw. Only reason to fake really.

When have I objected to you pushing no opinion players?

[Dunnstral]

So I am actually going to say Klick is a townlean of mine (and I was also convinced by their case that FA is scummy here).

DragonEater, can you tell me what you think the case against FA is here and why you agree with it?

[Dunnstral]

[Dragoneater wall post]

I find the points this post makes compelling. I agree with the premise that there is a difference in the way that Dragoneater is playing in this game compared to their previous games. I think that the Confidence on reads/pushes section, the Analysis over facts section, and the Fluff/comfortability section all show Dragoneater playing differently than they normally do.

[Dunnstral]

Seeing PB do that kind of effort makes me think DragonEater70 may need to be info flipped.

Note haven't read details.

I disagree. That effort can come from scum, especially scum backed into a corner

And I think Dragon's responses to it have been townie so far

I don't think Dragon has responded to any of the points that I find compelling from PB, instead choosing to respond to some more technical details like that PB was faking a read. So I disagree here, I don't like the way they are responding right now.

[Dunnstral]

Dragoneater, I still feel he's town. I liked the way he decided to put his money where his mouth is with his vote on me. He's not familiar with my socratic, trapping style. If he's scum, I see him with scum with Shea Dunn or Black only as they were the ones I was disputing.

I like binning ppl as town and I'm real reluctant to go back on a TR without strong evidence.

I feel DragonEater70 wagon is an attempt to save FA.

Why would DragonEater be scum with that list of players?

Objection to me pushing no opinion players vut demanding mine. Chainsaw. Only reason to fake really.

When have I objected to you pushing no opinion players?

I didn't do this. 1553 seems to be a nonsense reply.

[Dunnstral]

Seeing PB do that kind of effort makes me think DragonEater70 may need to be info flipped.

Note haven't read details.

I disagree. That effort can come from scum, especially scum backed into a corner

And I think Dragon's responses to it have been townie so far

I don't think Dragon has responded to any of the points that I find compelling from PB, instead choosing to respond to some more technical details like that PB was faking a read. So I disagree here, I don't like the way they are responding right now.

Earlier you said you didn't get the vibe that PB was trying to shut me down re: my Dragon read. Have your thoughts on this changed now that PB admitted to trying to shut me down?

I didn't catch this initially from that wall post. I guess I was wrong with my read in 1437. I find the reasoning they gave in the wall post plausible, especially because they really did have a lot to say about DragonEater. So I find it hard to believe that this is fake reasoning, which pushes me towards Pink Ball being town. Basically it looks like they had a plan with what they wanted to do. Are you seeing things differently?

[Dunnstral]

And if I flip town?

Slip? Wouldn't a town player say "And WHEN I flip town?"?

That assumes that Save The Dragons thinks that they will die

[Dunnstral]

Black thinks that you are mafia... they aren't personally attacking you.

[Dunnstral]

Just keep that in mind. Or maybe they're mafia but they're still not personally attacking you, they'd just be trying to win. And they are being pretty civil.

[Dunnstral]

I am trying to deescalate things for your benefit as well. You are getting worked up over not liking the way someone else is playing the game. I'm not attacking you, I even defended your posts to Black and said that I thought that DragonEater wasn't responding to the main points.

OK, so your problem is that it feels like Black isn't considering your points?

[Dunnstral]

Dragoneater, I still feel he's town. I liked the way he decided to put his money where his mouth is with his vote on me. He's not familiar with my socratic, trapping style. If he's scum, I see him with scum with Shea Dunn or Black only as they were the ones I was disputing.

I like binning ppl as town and I'm real reluctant to go back on a TR without strong evidence.

I feel DragonEater70 wagon is an attempt to save FA.

Drixx, thoughts on my scumpool?

Just to make sure ... FA with Shea/Dunn/Black?

No, see 1553. Titus is talking about Dragoneater.

[Dunnstral]

Wait. I'm the one who is confused, yes I think they are asking you about FA.

[Dunnstral]

And it feels like you're deescalating something that needs no deescalation for the sake of looking good

Look, I'm just trying to explain things to you in a way that doesn't make you feel you are the victim.

[Dunnstral]

Titus, can we talk about post 1553. What are you talking about in this post?

[Dunnstral]

Titus, can we talk about post 1553. What are you talking about in this post?

Yes. DragonEater70 wanted my reads before those I was questioning to give theirs. If he's scum, he likely was throwing a lifeline.

OK. So you are saying I had no opinions And I fundamentally disagree with you. And it is not clear to me where Dragon does this - where would they be chainsawing? Their vote on you was in response to a wall of opinions I gave.

[Dunnstral]

Where’s Dunn to deescalate this????

In all seriousness, Drixx is there a chance that is STD’s play style that’s infuriating for you rather than his read? Seems like a clash of old school vs new school of playing mafia rather than something else, I don’t see how you could get bothered by a scumread that you believe has no substance

You're never going to let this go, huh?

[Dunnstral]

I read page one. I have a scum read on Save the Dragons and a town read on Firebringer.

Also first

My posts on page 1 for reference

Your defensiveness is noted.

I think this is weird from you Ircher

[Dunnstral]

So. Cerb finally had some time to chat and we talked about setup and what needs to be done. He and I agree on the following. If you disagree or think an assumption is wrong, please feel free to correct it. Attempts to prevent the general plan from going into effect will be met with extreme *Side Eye*.

Starting with Day 2, everyone must claim the ability they had the previous day, what they did/whom they targeted, and the result. The main advantages of this are:

1.) Everyone will have a different role/ability already, so scum won't gain any targeting advantage or know how to eliminate whatever they most fear
2.) We can co-ordinate usage since we'll gain knowledge on the setup, and the owners of various powers can stay anon
3.) Scum will be forced to make fake action claims and explain them every day

In order to avoid giving scum the opportunity to dodge claiming and to provide opportunities for their claims to go awry on them, I suggest a random claim order that changes each day. I'm happy to go first every single day as the one proposing this.

I'm still chewing on this mentally, but I think in general this is the way.

I'm fine with this; I thought we had already agreed to do this though. In any case, I see no downsides to this except for letting mafia know what every power role is so they can play around them.

Do note the following site rule:

12. Do not take any action that attempts to prove the use of randomization in your game-related actions. This includes pictures, screenshots, and using or quoting dice tags. You are allowed to claim to have generated a random value as long as you do not attempt to provide evidence.

So the random part is a no go. Or at least it can't be trusted to have been random if provided by someone.

[Dunnstral]

I think the benefits outweigh the negatives

[Dunnstral]

if i were to make a townblock i guess it would look something like:

{Ircher, Titus, Pink Ball, GIF, StD, Dunnstral}

I am shook.

[Dunnstral]

I've been holding off on voting DragonEater because I didn't want him to feel pressured after just coming back from a v/la and wanted him to have time to respond to stuff. But I feel that he's not really interested in doing that and I think this makes them more likely to be mafia.

Specifically I am thinking about way back when FA asked DragonEater to explain why they agreed with Klick's suspicion on FA in their own words. And then I asked them that again when they came back and FA linked them to their own questions but he never acknowledged me or answered FA.

VOTE: DragonEater

[Dunnstral]

You're telling me theres a mechanic in this game where we just get two free conf town roles every day?

What?

There's no way theres any world in which thats balanced?

And you don't necessarily get free confirmations every day because the roles don't always go to town or to the living

It's also a 15 player game, likely 11-4 which isn't balanced without town having more power than usual in roles. I believe it.

[Dunnstral]

I'll ping my team for thoughts. I'm heading to bed right now so I'll update tomorrow.

[Dunnstral]

I'll ping my team for thoughts. I'm heading to bed right now so I'll update tomorrow.

But like, I don't see myself voting for kuribo today. Especially when the role can be proven easily tomorrow since it is very unlikely that both sides of it go to dead people/mafia.

And if this was a fake claim it would be disproven very quickly for the above reasons, so why would kuribo be lying?

[Dunnstral]

There's no shot all these people think Dragon is the scummiest player in the game

Why not? Several people have put substantial effort into casing DragonEater as mafia.

[Dunnstral]

Do you not like meta?

[Dunnstral]

What about the fact that DragonEater hasn't responded to FA's case or to why they agreed with Klick's case on FA?

Or about how they seem to only do things when prodded to do so?

[Dunnstral]

I've been holding off on voting DragonEater because I didn't want him to feel pressured after just coming back from a v/la and wanted him to have time to respond to stuff. But I feel that he's not really interested in doing that and I think this makes them more likely to be mafia.

Specifically I am thinking about way back when FA asked DragonEater to explain why they agreed with Klick's suspicion on FA in their own words. And then I asked them that again when they came back and FA linked them to their own questions but he never acknowledged me or answered FA.

VOTE: DragonEater

How do you feel about this for example?

[Dunnstral]

Do you think DragonEater is town?

[Dunnstral]

Do you think DragonEater is town?

Yes

OK so let's talk about this.

I looked through your iso a bit and to me I'm not seeing where you think this, instead it looks like you are making the claim that a lot of what DragonEater is doing is NAI or not that bad, but I'm not seeing reasons to jump to calling them town and I believe this is a new stance from you. So what makes you think they are town?

[Dunnstral]

Not so much the absence but the fact that he's not responding to things and doesn't feel the need to do so. And like, DragonEater said they don't have the time or energy to properly analyze everything. OK... but it shouldn't take a lot of time or energy to respond to why they agreed with Klick about reading FA as mafia, for instance, unless they had to go back and make something up instead of giving their honest thoughts.

[Dunnstral]

He's not giving good responses to the pressure on him when he is around

I think I disagree here, unless there's some stuff I missed. I thought his initial reaction to PB felt genuine and then there was clear progression to thinking PB has a good point and unvoting him. I'm not sure scum walks that back in that manner

I'm taking a closer look at their reaction now. In post 1519 they said they hadn't liked Pink Ball all along and linked to post 391, which was posted 4 days before 1519. This sticks out to me because I find it hard to believe that this post stuck to their mind and I don't like the explanation here or the attempt to discredit Pink Ball by assigning other motivations without really responding to the point they were making at the time.

[Dunnstral]

BRO

Go ask LLD if she buys Kuribo claim for one hot minute. I want her take on this.

Spoiler:

I talked with LLD and Petapan. They do not believe the claim. They say that it breaks the game by potentially clearing 4 players on day 2. Petapan says that the most likely explanation regardless of Kuribo's alignment is that this is a gambit.

[Dunnstral]

I don't think either of these wagons are good lims today but I don't think I'll be able to get anything else going over the weekend

Who are you thinking?

[Dunnstral]

Is that question directed at GiF or can anyone answer?

[Dunnstral]

Members of the town will get a generic Factional Role PM as shown below during Night 0 in the pre-game phase. At Dawn, members of the town will receive their Amnesiac Role. There are a number of roles in rotation that will be randomly distributed each Dawn Phase. That means that even dead players will be assigned Amnesiac Roles at Dawn. (Though they will not be PMed, since they are dead)

The Mafia Team will be assigned Amnesiac Roles in the same random manner, though the roles will not be granted to them.

Right here Black. Mafia can be assigned roles but the roles are not activated for them. So a mafia "mason" would have no pt, and they wouldn't know who the other town mason is, and vice versa.

[Dunnstral]

So if Kuribo and Ircher are both in a pt due to their amnesiac role, then they would indeed both be town, as mafia wouldn't have the role activated and wouldn't gain the pt.

[Dunnstral]

1524 - The case
1607 - Same thing with post tags fixed

[Dunnstral]

Oh nice I'm at E-1.
Should I claim or something?

E-2 since Pink Ball switched to Black.

Oh good.

Anyway I am deeply suspicious of the fact that as much as I can see from a quick skim, nobody on my wagon except PB (So Feysal, FA and Drixx) paid any attention to the posts I made on pages 61-66 (at least not by page 71). Like my defense was straight up ignored. I would expect SOME response to it, not nothing. Also I question the extra votes that popped (Klick, FB and Dunn).

I see there's an alternative wagon on Klick, so I would like to know what's the case against them?

What do you make of posts 494 and 1137?

[Dunnstral]

FA tries to talk to you in post 1510
I tried to talk to you in 1561

Here is what I have to say about your posts:

Seeing PB do that kind of effort makes me think DragonEater70 may need to be info flipped.

Note haven't read details.

I disagree. That effort can come from scum, especially scum backed into a corner

And I think Dragon's responses to it have been townie so far

I don't think Dragon has responded to any of the points that I find compelling from PB, instead choosing to respond to some more technical details like that PB was faking a read. So I disagree here, I don't like the way they are responding right now.

And I still feel this way. I feel honed in on the confident thing and some other miscellaneous stuff but didn't really address what I felt was the main argument.

[Dunnstral]

How is that fishing?

[Dunnstral]

I noticed that the read shifted to their teams read on FA too and tried to get them to acknowledge 494

[Dunnstral]

***

***

I have a mechanics-related announcement to make. I'm pretty excited for this one, but after last time I made sure to confirm what I'm about to do is allowed and actually works. I've tagged both Kuribo and Ircher above, because I want them to notice this.

I have devised a method to not only confirm Kuribo and Ircher, but all future masons, regardless of whether there are any living masons to vouch for them.

The method works like this. Kuribo can post a list of encrypted messages in thread. Each message has been encrypted using a different key. Kuribo posts the list of keys in the mason PT. 10 messages and 10 keys should be more than we will ever need. And now, every time a mason needs to confirm their mason status, all they need to do is find the next unused key from the list and post it in thread with the next undecrypted message and its plain text translation.

This can be done using an online tool such as this one.

I will give an example. Suppose the next unused secret message is this:
vXTSEfE17f9ndzIH3ojTqFlHgcwa2y37G/EN16FSxUromT8vI/9urgoVTiyIuQjhe+hBBbD6mdIT2M68PPaPB4tBhHRwVQdMb32wwcn4SZg=

And the next unused key in the mason PT is this:
D66EC005F44BA5C3

Enter these in the decryption tool linked above, click "Decrypt" and "Decode to Plain Text", and you will get this secret message:
Deep is our blow, invincible wrath, we have no mercy, no homeland.

Only masons will ever be able to do this, because only masons will have access to the PT where the keys are posted. Even if Kuribo and Ircher both die, using this method even a single mason with no one to vouch for them will be able to confirm that they are a mason.

We can even do this today, if Kuribo and Ircher want to have a test run. One of them can post the secret message, the other posts the key needed to decrypt it.

I don't know if I just broke the game, but if we do this, the potential is

huge

.

How did you word your question? I see something in the game rules for cryptography between games but there is also something in site rules:

10. Do not use cryptography, invisible text, or otherwise take any action that attempts to create an in-game private communication channel in plain sight using out-of-game information or agreements to communicate with some but not all players in a mafia game. You are allowed to provide "breadcrumbs" or crumb, as long as anyone could reasonably understand and interpret the meaning. You are allowed to create in-game communications if you are using information or agreements produced within the same game - for example, if you agree on a code in a game-related PT. Using references to information or agreements produced outside of the game that you know only specific people will be able to understand is not allowed.

[Dunnstral]

But realistically the thing that my brain intuitively gets to with that list sort of looks like Dragon/Titus/Dunnstral/???
I'm good at reading Titus as town early on when she's scum. And Dunn's the player I mentioned earlier who could easily be scum but who I've left in the town bracket for funsies.

I feel like I have no business being on your proposed scum team if you think it's Dragon and Titus. This is a weird reevaluation.

[Dunnstral]

You faked agreeing with klick on that meta read

as you faked your read evolution on dun/fb

as you faked evaluating my read/case on you and having absolutely nothing to say about it when "self-aware" you that was everywhere in the early game if was with a town mindset would not let go of those points

as you faked your "team" scumreading me suddenly as a back track from your own read

as you faked "having a scum read on me now" to drop that vote without 0 evaluation on my slot/motivations/posts and just because I'm hard pushing you and for you to appear consistent

This is just an extremely nervous scum caught.

case closed

And that's why I am not bothering replying to your case on me. What can I say except "I didn't fake it?"
Is there even a way to prove that I genuinely agreed with Klick's metaread?
I never faked evaluating your read on me, because I never cared about your read on me. It's based on BS assumptions.
I never faked having a SR on you, I voted because I dislike your push and it's irritating, maddening even, and you are taunting me to vote you basically. Maybe you don't see it, but it feels that way.

I think that showing that you understand what Klick was saying would have gone a long way towards proving that you agreed with the read. Instead it feels like you were trying to avoid talking about it.

[Dunnstral]

I like the rest of your reads Klick.

[Dunnstral]

I've given my own opinion several times. I feel it is disingenuous to say I haven't done anything and am only acting as a neutral thread arbitrator.

[Dunnstral]

But realistically the thing that my brain intuitively gets to with that list sort of looks like Dragon/Titus/Dunnstral/???
I'm good at reading Titus as town early on when she's scum. And Dunn's the player I mentioned earlier who could easily be scum but who I've left in the town bracket for funsies.

I feel like I have no business being on your proposed scum team if you think it's Dragon and Titus. This is a weird reevaluation.

Explain why?

Because I've spent time pushing both of them. And I voted Dragon to e-2. I'd be pushing on two of my teammates on day 1.

Like, that's not impossible, but it's weird to assume with no info, and I feel like you aren't considering it.

[Dunnstral]

I really don't like 2375 above by TSQ. I feel like it is piggybacking off of Klick's suspicions and is not an accurate portrayal. I've given plenty of thoughts on this DragonEater wagon, for instance.

[Dunnstral]

I've given my own opinion several times. I feel it is disingenuous to say I haven't done anything and am only acting as a neutral thread arbitrator.

I'm phone posting so perhaps i wasn't as clear as i should be but i struggle to think of what you want. Maybe neutral thread arbiter is overly harsh but maybe slightly direction less?

I'm pushing DragonEater right now, am I not? I think it's pretty clear what I want if you read my push there. I wouldn't call myself directionless either for the same reason. I really don't agree with your characterizations here.

[Dunnstral]

I really don't like 2375 above by TSQ. I feel like it is piggybacking off of Klick's suspicions and is not an accurate portrayal. I've given plenty of thoughts on this DragonEater wagon, for instance.

Do people often try to piggyback off of the suspicions of people they're voting?

Are you going to pretend that it was pure coincidence that you chose that timing to voice suspicion on me? Or was it because Klick voiced their own suspicions?

What you phrased is wifom I think

[Dunnstral]

Dunn are u a native English speaker?

Yes. What prompted you to voice suspicion on me? I feel like what yout ake issue with isn't actually a thing. I don't think what you are saying about me not giving opinions or being directionless is correct.

[Dunnstral]

Klick I see your VCA and don't really have an opinion. I think your VCA misses that Black also popped up as a counter wagon.

[Dunnstral]

Specifically "this is wifom i think is a weirdly wishy washy way to phrase that.

This is nitpicking I think

[Dunnstral]

I said I think it is wifom because it looks like you are trying to get me to question "would mafia do this". And that is not a line of thought I want to engage with, I would rather figure out why you chose this moment to voice your suspicions. And I feel like you are trying to avoid answering that by implying mafia wouldn't do that.

[Dunnstral]

GiF why am I in your poe list? Give me a short explanation.

[Dunnstral]

I just took a dive onto concrete. At urgent care.

Ouch. Hope you recover quickly.

[Dunnstral]

I searched Drixx post history and couldn't find any indication that they've seen a fake day vig before.

[Dunnstral]

Hold up. Lovers don't normally have a neighborhood.

[Dunnstral]

OK.

How are we doing mass claim?

[Dunnstral]

Hold up. Lovers don't normally have a neighborhood.

ive never seen lovers not have a PT tbh

I don't remember ever seeing them have a pt, but if that's not uncommon then it's fine.

[Dunnstral]

btw by massclaim we mean D1's role right

Yeah and actions. Are we claiming roles first and then actions later?

[Dunnstral]

Next post by Dunny and Black should be accompanied by their role yesterday.
I don't care about actions at this time. Claim ur role yesterday.

and Titus give me that readslist. Alisae is hounding me.

VBC

[Dunnstral]

The vanilla town amnesiac role

[Dunnstral]

Vanilla Background Character

[Dunnstral]

I pick Titus to claim next.

[Dunnstral]

im just outting my role yesterday.
as i said before the flavr was corrupt judge
i basically get to target two people and then they can't target each other the following night.

i asked the mod to confirm if that means that it would only block actions between the two on night 2 and i was told yes. So i couldn't use it to prevent a kill. Unless i can predict a whole other night in advance. Even if it worked last night i didn't target feysal so its w/e

ohh and also the two people i target are informed they are visited by an arbiter when i visit.

Firebringer can potentially be confirmed town if one of their night 1 targets got a targeting role that allows them to tell whether their ability works or not.

This role can't be used to block the kill because your target is informed and mafia can have a different member perform the kill if you target them.

[Dunnstral]

So do you think Drixx and GiF are both lying?

[Dunnstral]

Now that FA has posted everybody has checked in and nobody has claimed to have received a vision

[Dunnstral]

Dunn here reminds me a bit of dunn in firebringers business company game in that he's analytical and doesn't really push in any particular direction but he just is trying to puzzle stuff out which seems to be what he's doing here.

I think this is a good description

[Dunnstral]

So I will assume that everyone at least claimed targets or will do that, and I will claim that I targeted no one last night.

so I don't have much time for the game, right now, I have some notes written considering the dragon flip that I will post tomorrow hopefully if I manage to sit behind the game for like 2 hours to sort everything up.

I think there are a lot of clues regarding how the dragon eater wagon was handled yesterday, and about who might have been informed about it, so it's a good idea to dig that grave a little to see what we get.

This is the only post you gonna get out of me today cause I already am late for doing something else and I'll be so exhausted in an hour and half from now when I'm done with that.

so see you all tomorrow

I think Feysal popped up as a wagon at some point but it's not showing up in the vote counts for me, so I think it dissolved quickly (or I am remembering incorrectly)

[Dunnstral]

Black hold on until everyone claims IMO

[Dunnstral]

And I thought we were in agreement to mass claiming yesterday, but today it's "role fishing". Did I miss a step here or is this inconsistent?

[Dunnstral]

I don't remember you objecting Titus, I remember you proposing alternatives to the method that we claimed.

[Dunnstral]

We are amnesiac roles though. Even if they "kill it" that doesn't remove the role from the game

[Dunnstral]

Could be that there are more than 15 amnesiac roles, but the only thing that changes are the passives instead of the actives?

What does this mean?

[Dunnstral]

Mafia get roles too, they just can't use them. Matching up doesn't confirm anybody, but actually using roles does. Maybe. Someone said mafia could have a mimic making that a dangerous assumption. This is why I was saying Firebringer could end up confirmed town depending on how role distribution worked out.


Kuribo, has anybody responded in your chat now that everybody has checked in? If not then the role could have gone to the dead/mafia. Or maybe there's more than 15 roles and it's out of the pool.

[Dunnstral]

So you are looking for who had your actual role on D1?

[Dunnstral]

So you are looking for who had your actual role on D1?

How did you reach this conclusion when she said the exact opposite?

Also I don't understand what y'all mean by we were missing D1

So you are looking for who had your actual role on D1?

How did you reach this conclusion when she said the exact opposite?

Also I don't understand what y'all mean by we were missing D1

I repeated what Pink Ball said in 2917. Titus meant the former but said the latter.

[Dunnstral]

I'm not sure why that is quoted twice.

[Dunnstral]

alisae takes
ircher drixx fa gif
Kuribo titus klick
black std pb
shea dunn

Spicy

I feel pretty confident in Black town, I don't think this is her scum game at all and some of her takes seem very genuine

I could vote Dunn, I can't help myself but vote for the scumread who is positioned better in Titus but Dunn has pretty good odds of flipping scum imo

Interested in your Shea read as well as your confidence in FA/GIF town. If I can actually rely on your GIF read I feel like it greatly simplifies this game because it means a lot of my more questionable slots like Shea/Dunn/PB are just scum

Can you point to where my play is questionable?

[Dunnstral]

I don't like that I'm one of your bottom reads and your reasoning makes more sense for a null read. I also don't feel like I should need to explain to you why I am town, I think that you should have to explain why I am a valid vote and I should get to respond to that. The ball is in your court, don't ask me to pick up your slack.

I don't really know how I'd town case myself but I feel I've been giving opinions on both reads stuff and mech stuff and you haven't challenged me on any of that.

[Dunnstral]

I don't like that I'm one of your bottom reads and your reasoning makes more sense for a null read. I also don't feel like I should need to explain to you why I am town, I think that you should have to explain why I am a valid vote and I should get to respond to that. The ball is in your court, don't ask me to pick up your slack.

I don't really know how I'd town case myself but I feel I've been giving opinions on both reads stuff and mech stuff and you haven't challenged me on any of that.

VOTE: Dunnstral

Okay, you're scum because you're more interested in justifying your position in the game than in helping me see that you're town.

? You asked me to town case myself

[Dunnstral]

And then you voted me for "justifying my position"

[Dunnstral]

And from my end it doesn't really seem like you're interested in interacting with me as you brushed me off when I talked to you about your read on me yesterday as well.

[Dunnstral]

Is it wrong for me to say that you just called me scummy for doing something that you asked me to do?

[Dunnstral]

'Town casing myself' is not at all my strong point and I don't really know where to begin. I can show you what I've been doing this game but I can't show you how it is different from how I would do things if I were mafia. I'm not even aware of how I'd be doing things differently if I were mafia.

My thoughts on me are that I've been saying whatever is on my mind. When i find something that looks like a contradiction I point it out or ask for clarification. When I don't understand something in the thread I push for clarification. When I see something mech related with claimed roles I point it out if it is helpful (such as us being able to clear firebringer if the roles align right). When I agree with a player or don't like the way they are being pushed I sometimes make those thoughts known and sometimes keep them to myself. I give my own opinions on things, sometimes without committing to a read for every interaction, and try not to tunnel by considering what even people I suspect are saying.

[Dunnstral]

Is it wrong for me to say that you just called me scummy for doing something that you asked me to do?

Yes

You didn't town case yourself
You told me that was my job and briefly mentioned something about giving opinions?

Your job is to be able to justify your vote on me, it is not my job to convince you that I should be town instead of null. You can do better than voting for a null read. That is what I was getting at.

[Dunnstral]

If 3045 doesn't work for you then tell me what you want me to explain.

[Dunnstral]

You're the person who knows the most about how you would play as scum vs as town and what is different about this game based on your alignment.

I don't really. When Giga and MariaR used to play here they've be able to call my alignment pretty consistently and I didn't know how they were doing it at all. I later learned that I apparently got really defensive and would preemptively call mariar mafia if I thought they were eluding towards a scumread on me.

When I play as mafia I try to play it as if I were town. I still have a general feel of what is towny and what is scummy, and I will still try to call out scummy things. I know they're not actually mafia, but I can still see things as scummy and towny, so I'm not making up reasoning when I play mafia. I just know that they're actually town.

[Dunnstral]

From past experience usually I am more charismatic as mafia. When I'm town not so much and everybody leans towards me being mafia, and then I get into a kerfuffle and they grudgingly put me to null until the end of the game. As mafia I can slip into townreads for a few days before things collapse due to mech or poe closing.

[Dunnstral]

Can you remember any time moderately recently that you felt someone caught you as scum for what you felt were valid reasons?

Nothing was in my memory so I went through my past role pms and games for this. Here is what I saw:

-A game where I lived and won
-A 3p game where I died before I could post again and switch my claim to 3p (also I wasn't a strictly harmful 3p so not sure this counts)
-A replacement into the last mafia slot at E-1; I did not have a large influence in this game
-And then the game you talked about where you shot at me

That was ~10 months ago but seems to be the most recent example. I congratulated you for your shot in post game, but didn't otherwise leave thoughts in post-game/dead thread and I don't remember what was going on.

Beyond that I see Invictus mafia, where I was

also

shot during the night instead of eliminated during the day. I congratulated a town member for making it far into the game when I was trying to look paired with them.
And then a newbie game where I rolled mafia but replaced out due to non game related reasons pretty early into the game.

And then finally control mafia, I was eliminated on day 4. This one was probably fair, but the game is long and it's hard to tell what people were voting me for. I think there were longstanding suspicions on me and then I tried to fake claim a role and it wasn't bought. This happened 15 months ago and I'd say this is the most recent game where I was eliminated during the day as mafia by the town and it was a game I had a substantial part in.

[Dunnstral]

I've played like 3ish games in a row with Titus where she has been scum and in this game I'm getting a zeal from her that I haven't felt in other games. I think she's engaged her town solving brain in a way that she wasn't quite there for in the last few games I've been in with her.

It could be Team Mafia making her tryhard even if she's scum but I'm enjoying her content so far regardless and am fine to boost what she's currently doing for the thread.

LLD says that the zeal could be explained by finally rolling town, or it could be that this is a large event that most people are excited for. Meaning zeal and enthusiasm aren't really AI this game.

I'm interested in where LLD is currently at on Titus btw? And the game at large as well I suppose

LLD hasn't taken a look at my game in a long time. Not a dig at them, I just haven't asked. I don't have more current reads from them - last thing I asked was about the masons and my team did not believe that claim (but I personally did), and then I had to explain to them that neighbors would be the same as masons (they suggested that Kuribo was a neighbor gambitting, which was pretty close to the truth in hindsight except that they would still be town). LLD said that if no other player claimed Kuribo's role it was either a lie or a special role (not sure what that last part meant actually) BUT LLD has not been keeping track of the game or reading Kuribo at all so that is just their gut reaction to the claim as I explained it.

[Dunnstral]

As for my own thoughts on Titus, I've felt bad about her IRL circumstances but still ultimately felt she could be mafia in this game. Recently I am considering what Save The Dragons was saying about their posts about mech maybe indicating that they are town. Not sure either way right now.

[Dunnstral]

I don’t want to be rude to Dunn but I don’t feel he has been charismatic at all on this game, for what is worth

I don't consider this offensive

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE:

Went ahead and skimmed through your ISO. You're very likely town in this game

I'm interested in who you and your team are currently suspecting and why

Time for sleep

I think I need to make some tough calls on removing people from my townreads because I'm not sure who is mafia right now. I was townreading Feysal yesterday, and before it was cool to do so, but started scumreading DragonEater for what I felt were good reasons near the end of the day - that didn't work out.

For town right now I have Black, You (Klick), Kuribo/Ircher based on claims (I always had a positive impression on Kuribo, not sure if I voiced that, but I didn't like Ircher's slot), Frozen Angel, Pink Ball
And then a tier below that but still not interested in eliminating right now: Firebringer, Save The Dragons
And going back and forth with Thestatusquo (Sometimes I feel they can be mafia but then sometimes I feel they make posts that make me think otherwise. And I'm not sure why they'd put me at null instead of agreeing with me being mafia but maybe that is too focused on myself)
And then I have Drixx low for their own content which I am not a big fan of except that they are going back and forth on Titus and their interactions don't feel like two mafia. And GuyInFreezer who is really uninspiring and I feel could easily be mafia. Actually now that I am writing this out I should really be pushing this slot and am not sure why I have been giving them so much leeway.
And then Titus at the bottom. I feel they are being obstinate and purposely not changing their point of view because it would be hard to come up with new organic thoughts as mafia.

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler:

So far the people I’m not townreading atm and/or needs to be sorted are

{Dunn, TSQ, FA, Black, Drixx, Feysal, Klick}

Assuming 3 scum

Hey that’s not actually that bad
I thought I would be much behind

Subtract Feysal and Drixx

I get Dunn TSQ FA Black Klick

Out of those 5 TSQ is the greenest
This is actually becoming spicy PoE list ngl

GiF why am I in your poe list? Give me a short explanation.

GiF why am I in your poe list? Give me a short explanation.

I think I have better chance at reading you correctly at later game days than D1

Spoiler:

im just outting my role yesterday.
as i said before the flavr was corrupt judge
i basically get to target two people and then they can't target each other the following night.

i asked the mod to confirm if that means that it would only block actions between the two on night 2 and i was told yes. So i couldn't use it to prevent a kill. Unless i can predict a whole other night in advance. Even if it worked last night i didn't target feysal so its w/e

ohh and also the two people i target are informed they are visited by an arbiter when i visit.

Firebringer can potentially be confirmed town if one of their night 1 targets got a targeting role that allows them to tell whether their ability works or not.

This role can't be used to block the kill because your target is informed and mafia can have a different member perform the kill if you target them.

There's something we're missing here. I am becoming leery of the mass claiming the more we get into it.

If the roles claimed are correct there could be as many as 6 conf. town right now just on being able to be confirmed to have taken an action with a role. This simply can't be the setup. Scum has to have some way to fuck with this.

As far as I’m aware from all the claimed role lovers are the only hardconfirmable ones

Scum prob has something like roleblocker to mess with things

So here is something that is of interest to me. In the first set of spoilered quotes GuyInFreezer has a PoE list of 5 players on day 1, and goes on to say that TSQ is the "greenest". We are looking at a game with 3-4 mafia, probably leaning towards 4 being more likely, and GuyInFreezer calls it a PoE list in their own words. I go on to ask them why I am in this list, and they respond that they have a better chance of reading me correctly on later games days.

In the second set of spoilered quotes I show my own post where I explain how Firebringer can be confirmed and GuyInFreezer I feel ignores my post completely in their post shown here.

So my assertion here is that GuyInFreezer, as town, should be paying more attention to me given what they said on day 1 and their supposed closing PoE. Instead they seem to be completely ignoring me... and let me remind you that I am not only in his PoE, but was on an incorrect elimination the previous day. So to me, it doesn't make sense that GuyInFreezer is still coasting and... just straight up not reading my posts. They don't care at all. And I think that points to them being mafia.

VOTE: GuyInFreezer

[Dunnstral]

So I totally misunderstood you.

UNVOTE: GuyInFreezer

Will think on this more later. Firebringer's role already went off and can't be retroactively roleblocked but I guess the two players they have targeted can be. And there is no way for those two players to know who each other are without claiming. (And no guarantee that those players are even town)

[Dunnstral]

I have no idea what either of you are talking about

[Dunnstral]

It's entirely possible your crumb is not nearly as obvious as you think it should be and that is the only issue here rather than a role-related one

[Dunnstral]

Code: Select all

Black                                Vanilla
Ircher                               Lover
Drixx 
Dunnstral                            Vanilla
Firebringer 
Frozen Angel 
GuyInFreezer 
Klick 
Kuribo                               Lover
Pink Ball 
Save The Dragons 
Thestatusquo 
Titus                                Vanilla

Is this missing any claims?

[Dunnstral]

Titus is there. I was missing GiF's claim

[Dunnstral]

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