Team Mafia 2018: Mafiosi Revolution (Over)
-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
OK, I've read through the entire thread, and it makes me feel extremely old. It would be lovely if at least one person would talk to me in real time after this post is made.
Mulch, despite feeling like a spambot at the start has read more genuine to me as the game has gone on. I thought his responses to Transcends unusual Toranga vote were perfectly reasonable coming from town, and I don't see what Transcend is jumping at. If someone you're unsure/maybe suspicious of votes someone you think is town, isn't it normal to ask why? Im see the followup in post 410, but can't say it resonates with me.
Really like Cheet's meta-dive on Unabombah, who feels awkward to me in his early posts as well.
Is this a very strong point? If he has been busy the past few days and lost track of when game's were starting, I'm not sure why being scum would make him more alert to the gamestate.In post 388, Cheetory6 wrote:
I'm kind of upset that this is resonating with me.In post 374, Kagami wrote:@Cheet: Seems unlikely to me that Una made up that he believed he had missed a lot of game-time, whereas I think he'd be more alert to the gamestate as scum.
):
Kmd feels off to me. I do think it's possible the team chat was put in the thread just to show indecision, and I always remembered Kmd as a more direct player than that. Admitedly, my meta might be about 6 years old, heh.
This seems a bit feigned in it's aggressiveness. I feel like you would understand the point Spiffeh is making even if I don't expect you to agree with his interpretation.Kmd wrote:I'm also supposed to tell spiff from Mathdino to fuck off because our team is arguing behind the scenes about reads and it's perfectly fine to present different arguments just like a Hydra would. He must have read something I haven't yet.
Vote: Kmd4390. Also leery of Unabombah. Cheetory reads very town to me, and to a lesser extent Mulch and Transend do as well. I like that Mulch hasn't just focussed on a tunnel of Transcend, as would be easy to do as scum, and is prodding and poking at other people as well.
Now, since about a million people have posted while I was writing that, maybe a bit of real life chatter would be nice.Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
=/In post 621, Mulch wrote:Holy shit this guy is from 2006Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
Thanks, I think.Cheet wrote:Hi Patrick congrats on pocketing me!
The "Mulch is an asshole and therefore probably town" feels weird to me. Don't really see your point on the Kagami read given the stipulation that Cabd has skimmed and would be coming back with more time later. I'm more interested in what he posts than in voting him atm.Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
I guess that's a possible interpretation. I just also easily imagine town having one or two people they want to sort as a priority. Anyhow, interested to see what Cabd has to say.Cheet wrote:I think that as scum it could be posturing about Kagami to try to make them feel like there's some kind of effort being directed towards trying to parse them and/or setting tasks/goals to hold himself accountable to doing specific tasks (which is something I've done before in the past as scum to keep myself motivated).Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
Pocketing just means town reading, or something more? Why was this comment weird?In post 636, Firebringer wrote:
See cheetory it’s weird little things like this that make me feel uneasyIn post 633, Cheetory6 wrote:Hi Patrick congrats on pocketing me!
But I sort of think ur town regardless of the weird thingsPrimpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
I think I'd like implosion to complete wherever he was going in his dialogue with Mulch.
Why?speaking of low hanging fruit, I'd absolutely lynch aristophanes and don't care that his flip gives 'no information'.Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
I don't much like any of what he's posted so far. I'm not interested in seeing that argument continue, more interested in implosion telling us what he's thinking.In post 730, Mulch wrote:
The dialouge feels scummy to me tbhIn post 721, Patrick wrote:I think I'd like implosion to complete wherever he was going in his dialogue with Mulch.
Why?speaking of low hanging fruit, I'd absolutely lynch aristophanes and don't care that his flip gives 'no information'.Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
This interests me, because the only time I've ever seen Spiffeh play was in another Ether-mod game where he looked to me obvtown but was mislynched. In this game I feel like I agree with a fair number of his points, but don't townread him. Is he normally an easy read as town?Cheet wrote:At the very least I feel like I should be townreading you by now and I'm not. There's a particular lack of oomph to what you're doing this game and this careful tiptoeing/pokey approach to me/Spiff that I don't really think townYou does.
implosion looks alot better than last night. I'm curious about both the townreads expressed in 999 though. Why would KMD's post about partner elaboration be a hard one to make as scum? He's right, but the post looks super null to me.
I think I totally underestimated Mulch. Still not very interested in him right now, but his stated preference for picking a scum role is relevant.
Spiffeh: why are you voting Cabd atm? Sorry if this is explained somewhere but I don't see it. I felt you actually had a valid point on kmd.
To those implying suspicion of me, I loathe playing as scum. There is no way in hell I took a scum role when I feel this out of touch with the site, unless my team literally got 3+ scum role PMs. I feel scuzzy bringing that up, but it's part of this competition and not something I'm going to ignore on other people either. If my posting style bothers you, it's likely to do so for the entire game. Iso me in Twin Trap, or read my posts in the 2014 UK scummers invitational that I'm too lazy to link to. I'm actually pretty easy to read.
I feel alot better about implosion and Unabomba. I'm unsure if I'm just seeing ghosts on KMD because he's posted alot of stuff relevant to the game and talked about a good number of people, but I get an empty feeling from the apparent internal turmoil in his team about reads in this game, whereas I feel like I often townread that kind of thing. No clue on Cabd, and Kagami seems entirely unimpressive so far. Probably worth a read of 4:8 Nightless, but that'll have to be for another day. I'd like to hear from Aris, but comments from Cheet/implosion suggest to me that slot is not worth focussing on now.Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
Ha. Misread that completely. Must admit I have jack all read on Firebringer at this point.
Still, did you think anything of Spiffs self analysis, since a previous post of yours said you had some thoughts on it?Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
Guys, this is fucking stupid. I don't want to get home from work again and logon to read more and more pages of Mulch/Transcend arguing, especially when it seems to have gone well beyond alignment. If one or both of you are town, stop, take a few deep breaths and do whatever you need to calm down. We get that the two of you are suspicious of each other. There are 13 other players in the game.
Why are you fanning the flames of this anyway? I thought you were suspicious of Transcend?Ginngie wrote:If I'm being completely honest here, I look at the 15 players and realize we have an extra lynch before LyLo and my brain goes lmao policyPrimpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
It's great isn't itIn post 1092, Kmd4390 wrote:Oh we're back to this again? Shit I was starting to enjoy this game.Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
I read the post where you voted him. Doesn't mean it makes sense: if you think Transcend is scum, pushing the guy he's voting seems unnatural to me unless you also have a strong scum read on them, which is not what I'm getting from your posts.
It also felt like you were trying to get a rise out of Mulch rather than calm him downPrimpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
FWIW, I skimmed the game cabd linked to earlier and it looked like Mulch was doing something similar in that one. Not especially keen on reading a bunch of other games as I'm quite prepared to believe he's done it as both alignments.implosion wrote:Would like to see Transcend link a Mulch game where he does something like this as promised.
I think my read on Kmd might have been wrong. Would much ratherVote: GinngiePrimpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
Not really. It gave me the impression he gets extremely riled up as town and is good at replicating it when scum. Replicating not quite the right word, I think he does get riled up as scum, but is good at using it.
What difference am I missing?Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
Kagami looks much more like trying to figure things out than before. Katsuki read on me sounds like something he would say based on our history. He might also try to buddy up to me based on our history, but it feels decent to me.
I don't think Ginngie looks especially town in any of her posts, and her approach to Transcend / Mulch looked off to me. Firebringers vote on Ginngie was actively unhelpful, essentially turning the case against her into one of not being active enough, which is easily refuted. Can someone who has this slot as obvtown clue me in as to why.
I still don't get an ounce of scumminess from either side of the Mulch Transcend argument, and that hasn't changed with Transcend's replacement. It does make me feel extremely lazy whenever I read any part of it though. Mulch mason claim at the start of the game seems obviously null and I'm amazed that debate has had so much screen time.
Cabd doesn't sound like he's scumhunting. If I'm being thick somewhere apologies, but I'd like it clarified whether or not he's claiming Friendly Neighbour. I don't find the ambiguity helpful when trying to get my head round a 15 player game that's grown at this rate. If that is a roleclaim, then he's obviously off the table.
I'm quickly remembering why I didn't play in large games, because there's a whole boatload of players I gave little to no read on. Firebringer feels completely null to me, Chara likewise (though CDB seemed to like her for town). Toranaga no read, but half the playerlist saying he's obvtown, Aris pretty much no content, but probably town for meta reasons. Spiffeh no clue.
I'm covering the evening shift at work tonight so should be able to at least sneak on. If anyone wants to give me a specific task or follow up on anything in more detail then go for it, might help me focus on something in this game. Atm I'm going largely on gut and broad brushes.Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
OK.Ginngie wrote:More than likely we are doing Cabd or Kagami today and i see you focusing there, so go more into that
My recollection of Kagami's scum play from the last team mafia was that he replaced into 4:8 Nightless and spent all game going after the same two people for sketchy reasons. Quickly rereading that, he feels different here. I liked the dialogue with Kmd and the change of heart from KMD scummy/Spiff town to KMD towny/Spiff scummy, it looks natural to me, and I think faking natural changes of opinion is one of the harder things to do as scum. It would be easy to just keep bashing KMD for his odd Mulch-townread and try to shove that down our throats as a pairing.
I've been to I think 3 meets with Katsuki and he fancies he can read me pretty well, so that read was believable. He probably remembers I like being called town as well, but it doesn't seem especially beneficial to buddy up to me when you can just lightly support the paranoia and maybe try to mislynch me later.
I don't agree on the strength of the Mulch-scum case, but it doesn't feel like bullshit.
So although it seems like Kagami's name is popping up alot as a lynch candidate, I don't really understand why - leaning town on him.
As for Cabd, it feels pretty shitty now with his current situation but pretty much what I said in my last post - it doesn't seem like he's doing much. His reason for reading Kagami as town seemed artificial to me and the kind of thing I could imagine making up as scum. But for obvious reasons, that one needs a bit of time (and still clarifying at least for my sake whether the Friendly Neighbour claim is real).
Why is it more than likely that we're lynching one of these two today?Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
In the other game I felt like he went after 2 people for bad reasons and tried to rigidly fit a view of the game into a Hoopla/GreyIce shaped hole. This game he's gone after you for reasons I don't find bad, and seems to be trying to work with and sort people.Mulch wrote:Reads progrsssuon on me dude
He locked me as wolf on page 7 and hasn’t changed his vote
I'm still not sure whether to read it as a claim or just a test of Kagami's alignment? It seems like Ginnstie isn't sure and 2 people are still voting Cabd, both of whom have posted since the alledged claim. That's mainly why I was looking for it to be confirmed or denied.implosion wrote:?????????
Do you really think there is any chance in hell we're lynching Cabd at this point???Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
Back and forth on the last page or so seems very town to me. No doubt all Mulch attackers and Mulch himself will tell me he produces all that stuff as scum anyway, but meh
One question though, why Firebringer town? On ISO he's one of the few players I don't get any town feel from any posts. Not much scummy there either, but I can easily imagine his posts as scum.Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
I expected that sort of answer. But it feels like for practically any conceivable vote, there will be at least one person claiming that player is obvtown for meta reasons, so at some point I have to look past that.In post 1647, Firebringer wrote:
I’m unreadable for most unless they know meIn post 1645, Patrick wrote:Back and forth on the last page or so seems very town to me. No doubt all Mulch attackers and Mulch himself will tell me he produces all that stuff as scum anyway, but meh
One question though, why Firebringer town? On ISO he's one of the few players I don't get any town feel from any posts. Not much scummy there either, but I can easily imagine his posts as scum.
Who do you think is scum again?Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
Only clear one I obtained from your iso was your current vote on Kagami. You mentioned Spiffeh but then kind of town-read him but then clarified it was null, you mentioned Cabd but that seems out of date. Basically Kagami then?
Gingie I thought looked a bit better tonally, I'm not really convinced she's town for a few curse words alone. Who is her main, on the offchance I've seen it before? Unless that's secret.
Spiffeh I think looks worse, not so much for interaction with Gingie, which I thought was plausible as either alignment, but for his last post. Splitting the hairs of push v naked vote doesn't seem good to me.
Unvote, vote: SpiffehPrimpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
This just seems blustery to me I guess? I don't think the distinction between push and naked vote was that important in that context, if you're voting someone then you are on some level pushing them, even if not shouting about how they're obvscum. I also don't feel like everyone who goes after him is automatically called scum, and that's pretty shaky line of attack even if true. Do you find that reliably comes from scum?Spiffeh wrote:Calling it a push when one doesn't exist looks like he doesn't really care if he's misrepresenting me as long as he can further discredit someone voting against him.
Like sure maybe he's just bad at mafia and thinks everyone that dares to mention him as a lynch target is scum but in a game where I'm struggling to form concrete scum reads maybe the badness is just scumminess?
Seems pretty believable anyway without an example.Kmd wrote:I feel like I've seen spiff struggle to get reads as town before. I'm gonna try to find it
Pretty lost atm, because Spiffeh doesn't feel especially scummy in the last couple of pages prodding Tor and commenting on Firebringer, nor does Ginggie, but there are 3 scum out there and I can't confidently name one. I think Spiffeh is still in scumrange though going after Tor who has been written off by a lot of people doesn't seem very scum like. My read on Cabd pretty depends entirely on whether he's claiming Friendly Neighbour, as I assume that would be a daft claim to make if not true.
Odd question, but am I being too naive in reading Mulch's page 65/66 posts as town? The readslist in particular looked very genuine town to me, but it obviously hasn't hit that note for many others so I wonder if that's largely meaningless. I didn't get as strong a vibe from Eddie's posting, but he seems to be trying to get reads on people and I don't see anything that makes me grimace.
Not really done with this, but BSG beckons.Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
Because I'd rather drink a bottle of bleach than take a scum role in this game. The difference between me and some others is that nobody knows me, so they're not telling everyone about how obviously true this is, leaving only me to say it. I took a town token in the last team mafia to reduce the chances of having to do community service, and I'd even selfishly thought about what I'd argue for why I shouldn't be it, in the event that my team did get 3 scum roles. My last game as scum was a UK scummers invitational, maybe the game or scumtopic would give more insight into why I hate it: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=47699Eddie skirt wrote:Chara/KMD/Kagami/Patrick/Implosion/Ari/Fire/Mulch/Una
why should i not lynch u :O
As to your earlier comment, I haven't made many posts because I have to sleep, eat and work, and even ideally not spend all the remaining time in front of the computer on mafiascum. The fast growing game and spammy sometimes toxic meta that is apparently the norm now haven't exactly helped. I think I was a good player around 2007-2008, and still a decent F2F one, but feel pretty ineffective atm. Kudos to all those who are also eating sleeping and working and are able to keep up to speed and make 40 posts a day I guess?
Since it's the in thing, let's do some quick impressions of everyone.
Cheetory - still seems solidly town to me. Seems to be trying to solve the game
implosion - also seems to trying to work things out. However, wouldn't put it outside of good scumplay, and he did sound a bit off to me very early. Town lean with caution
Kagami - discussed Kagami not long ago, don't see the case against him. Fluffy looking wagon largely composed of people in my uncertain category, and Spiffeh positioning himself to join, doesn't seem likely to be on scum.
Mulch - oh god. Mainly whenever I think about meta, I'm afraid he might have picked scum, and that he's good at faking being town. When I read his posts themselves, I think he's town.
Eddie skirt - Transcend I thought sounded more genuine than not, Eddie reads to me more like trying to figure things out than throw around alot of shit to confuse us.
Cabd - still waiting on the claim. Would consider as a lynch based on play alone.
Toranaga - no idea, have just more or less assumed town because of the number of people claiming straightforward meta.
Aristophanes - As above. Stuff he's put in the thread I can at least connect with
Spiffeh - one of the least town, I think. Could see all his posts as coming from scum so far.
Firebringer - meh
Unabombah - don't really remember what he thinks of anything. Awkward early but could just have been emoticons and ESL. Would be really interested in his list.
Chara - meh
Ginngie - slightly better than meh now.
Kmd - not actually super town despite a lot of content. Only time I modded him as scum he was very active and involved, and got townread hard. Probably one I should reread closely and try to pin down what's holding me back from townreading him.
Not actually alot of scumminess in the game having put that together! Think I'll reread Kmd tomorrow.Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
Reading the thread, it looked like Transcend's point was that Mulch was only concerned about suspicion towards himself, and too relaxed when it was placed on Toranaga. I found Mulch's response pretty proportionate and would have found it more weird if he'd gone mad, or ignored it. I thought his response was pretty normal and not deserving of the attention Transcend gave it. If your point is that my paragraph didn't need the sentence starting "If someone you're..." then you're probably right.Cheetory wrote:Kind of feel like this is missing the point of what Transcend was saying/doing? Like, the issue isn't that Mulch questioned it, Transcend was saying that the degree to which Mulch reacted to Transcend pushing him vs Transcend pushing someone that Mulch was townreading was disproportionate. It seems like you're acknowledging this by saying you read 410 but then I don't really understand why you left the bit in about Transcend pushing Mulch for the Toranaga vote in this post. Or if you felt like the reasoning Transcend was using had changed at some point, it doesn't really seem like you checked back to see if it squared up and just accepted 410 at face value which would be kind of weird.
It struck an odd note to me when I read it, sometimes scum put that stuff on, and misjudge when they would do it as town. I'm not sure why it being mathdino matters, if Kmd is scum, his teammates commenting on the game are also scum, any reactions and any scumhunting influenced by knowing everyone's alignment. I'm not saying that I thought Kmd's first hand reaction was "fuck off...", maybe that's where the misinterpretation is. Tbh now you've made me reread it, I feel the same as I did then.Cheetory wrote:Quoted post is him relaying a teammate's thoughts so I'm really unsure why you were getting on KMD's case for seeming fake when it's emotional telephone. Would probably be a lot more weird if it wasn't feigned?
For example, if I relayed a message from CDB right now telling you to fuck off and stop questioning me, how would you read it?
Initially Unabombah felt awkward to me. Lots of emoticons, lots of jokey/spammy posts. He gave what seemed like a few serious reads: Firebringer maybe town for replace out, liked Transcend, but sort of weakened them later by saying pretty much all his posts have been jokes up until then. 261 gave me a gut pang with both lines, especially "Transcend is garbage town", even though that comment can make sense logically.Cheet wrote:Can I get some words on why for the bolded?
He made a series of posts between that post and my next that look a lot better, especially 920. Liked him joining me on Kmd, liked what initially looked like an attack on Spiffeh turning into a townread on Spiffeh - it looked pretty organic to me. He seemed to not be hammering on soft popular targets that nervous/meh scum might, and instead doing his own thing (Kmd & Aris, yes, I didn't agree with scumread on Aris either).
Right now he feels a lot less involved, and I want to hear from him about his reads. Pretty on the fence about his alignment.
Pedit about 6 million posts, time to read those.Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
I read back and I think this is the meat of it:Kmd wrote:Patrick, was that Boost Mafia where I bussed the shit out of Mastina just to get town cred and get boosted and it worked but we still lost the game? Also, you said you don't see the case on Kagami. Have you read any of what I said about Kagami and you disagree with it or...?
Regarding Kagami's interaction you, I thought the change of mind looked natural and would not have been a move that scum-Kagami would have felt pressured to make, since your reason for town-reading Mulch didn't make sense, at least certainly not to the degree you were pushing it. If scum-Mulch felt town-Toranga was going to be quickly read as town this game, I don't think a light hearted mason claim would be out of the question whatsoever. I think asking "what does scum Mulch get out of it?" is the wrong question entirely - not everything done by scum is for a clear benefit.Kmd wrote:It was mostly the way she approached my reasoning for Mulch being town. I had her as maybe gut scum before that anyway, but she didn't seem to be trying to understand my logic when for townreading Mulch at first. I called her out for it and suddenly she started attacking me for inconsistencies that simply weren't there. Then when I pushed back, suddenly she's townreading me again. It didn't feel like natural progression. I asked her why and somehow it's meta from a game that I was really too busy to play which doesn't at all fit how I'm playing here. The way she reacted to cabd's soft claim was weird too. Like, someone said as scum she probably wouldn't out it and would just save it for the PT, but I'm not sure that's 100% true. But my issue wasn't really her outing it. It was the way she instantly trusted it despite once being part of a scum team that successfully pulled off a friendly neighbor fakeclaim. It feels too much like "well, this lynch is off the table" rather than "ok, we'll give him a chance to prove it". Mulch has also mentioned the way Kagami has been latched on to him for pretty much the entire game. I'm not entirely sure this is scummy, but it's one more thing you can consider.
Not arguing Mulch is scum for doing it, but I didn't agree with your thoughts on that at all, and though Kagami's questions were appropriate.
As to the other game, I haven't read it but it sounds like Kagami showed a reasonable difference there.
As for sticking to Mulch, I didn't buy this as scummy before, but now I'm less sure. My own thoughts on Mulch have changed alot rapidly so the rigidity does seem a bit off.
I thought it obvious enough from my previous post on Kagami, but I agree with your comment that he looked like he was trying to sort Kmd.Cheetory wrote:I've asked people to engage me on what I thought was something townish about Kagami but nobody has so I'm probably just going to trust my effort over people's kneejerk gut reactions to their posts.Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
Test run achieved. Will try to remember, but it took me longer than normal.In post 2076, Chara wrote: feel free to ignore this, but: would it be possible to use the quote buttons so you have page links in your quotes? i already find quote-walls difficult to read but without post-links for context i really can't parse them at all.Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
Before I was just copy pasting whatever text I wanted and clicking the "quote" tag to turn it into a quote. In my post directly before this one, I did what you asked but took about 3 previews to get it right.Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
I agree with this and especially in regards to implosion's last. I guess the implication is that feeling incrementally better about Mulch makes a Kagami vote look better, but it doesn't feel great.In post 2083, Cheetory6 wrote:The number of people hopping on because "lolPoE" and "shrug I don't townread him" is kind of concerning and feels kind of weak given that this is Team Mafia and I've been kind of expecting town to be tryharding here?Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
Spiffeh is a better lynch than Mulch or Kagami. I don't feel he's trying to figure this game out as a townie.
Ginggie looks worse to me in the last few and chara better. Gut impressions at this point. Unsure about implosion, his thing on Kagami isn't exactly full of holes but I agree with Eddie Kane's comment on it. I feel like I've made posts like that before as scum to try and justify a switch.Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
I just don't feel like you're genuinely trying to solve the game. You accuse Mulch of trying to keep his options open which feels like bullshit because he's practically cleared everyone and is seemingly struggling to name 3 people who could be scum, and is working backwards to try and think about who the least town is instead. Presumably if he wanted to keep you in his lynchpool he could have just not pointed out something in your play that sounded town, seems like an easier way to do it than say what he did then come back to you. Townies do change their minds frequently and that's what I feel you're trying to exploit in that post.
I was going to say it was odd to me that you didn't mention Toranaga who was high on your list, but pedit.
Well, why did you stop reading? Last I checked I'm definitely in your pool of possible scum and I'm currently pushing you over two wagons that you're claiming to scumread, so I'd expect something more than a pithy comment.Spiffeh wrote:
stopped readingIn post 2233, Patrick wrote:Spiffeh is a better lynchPrimpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
Really? You quoted him saying "flailing" so let's see the post that came from?In post 2240, Spiffeh wrote:
I made the "keeping options open" comment before reading the posts where he is struggling to find scum reads. Everything else stands.In post 2238, Patrick wrote:You accuse Mulch of trying to keep his options open which feels like bullshit because he's practically cleared everyone and is seemingly struggling to name 3 people who could be scum, and is working backwards to try and think about who the least town is instead.
He's cleared most players here already, so you must have seen this.In post 2061, Mulch wrote:Eddie is obvious town. Patrick's self meta post makes him obvious town. Toranaga is obvious town. Implosion is beyond obvious town.
Those are just the obvious towns.
Ginnigie radiates townyness. Ari and Chara would never pick scum. Cabd has a town-confirmed claim, and Firebringer a near town-confirmed claim. Cheetory radiates town.
Kmd and Unah are town enough by play and meta respectively.
What's left are Spiffeh and Kagami.
And as a bonus, Kagami has been scummy. Spiffeh with his last reads list kind of looks like flailing too.
Last post before that in his iso:
Had you read this when you suggested he was trying to keep his options open?In post 2060, Mulch wrote:The only two people in the game I am not townreading right now are Spiffeh and Kagami. The odds of one of them not being scum is astronomically low. Especially because my speciality are townreads.
I suck at scumreads. When I have a PoE, I often choose the wrong one. But I'll be damned if someone says that I don't know how to identify town.
Am I wrong on one?
Probably. I HAVE to be, even if Spiffeh and Kagami are both scum.
But as of right now, those are the only two votes that I am considering. Unless someone manages to hit the one scum that is hiding in the towns.
PS: Apologies for the format but I do want people to read the quotes rather than just linking to the posts and nothing else. Don't think Spiffeh's thought process rings true here.Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
Do you think Spiffeh looks scummy on the last page? I think his approach to Mulch there might be the scummiest thing I've seen so far in the game.
What made that pairing come to mind then? Just Spiffeh backing off Kagami or?Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
I haven't read every recent Mulch post in full, especially his back and forth with Eddie, but I feel like I've had a pretty good idea where he's at in terms of reads / worldview. If he's town, he's in a position where he has townreads on everyone but Kagami and Spiffeh. I've found it pretty genuine; thought his read on my meta pretty genuine because I think scum would love that to stay on the quiet, thought his doubts on Kagami seemed p genuine, thought his calling Spiffeh town then returning to him seemed pretty genuine. I don't expect all town to share my point of view, but I feel like there's a fair bit of content in there to go alongside the spam, and that most people would go through quite a lot of doubt in reading him.In post 2268, Cheetory6 wrote:Why is it scummy specifically? Pitch me it.
Spiffeh's posts on Mulch last page don't look like trying to figure him out at all. He brought up a couple of boring points that have surely been said 10 times already and probably could be said about Mulch in most games he plays, and I don't think hammering on Mulch's Spiffeh change of heart looked genuine. I realise he's asking Mulch a question there, but the tone of it was already one of painting Mulch negatively for it.
And like I said, that point doesn't make a great deal of sense to me: if Mulch scum was trying to keep options open on lynching Spiffeh, he didn't need to call Spiffeh town at all. The post where he did looked like a gut reaction and was something I shared to a lesser extent (Spiffeh going after Toranaga was an unpopular target, and might suggest Spiffeh isn't scum).
Also think Spiffeh's dismissive response to me was slightly scummy, but that's not something I can make a good argument for.Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
That's the other option, yes.In post 2281, Spiffeh wrote:Or maybe all the things I said about Mulch are how I actually feelPrimpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
I appreciate Katsuki chiming in with this.In post 2396, Kagami wrote:Patrick, katsuki says you've clearly senile and should just trust us on mulch-scum.
If forced to pick between you and Mulch (replacement), I'd probably vote for Mulch, but am not really comfortable with the idea that that one of you has to be scum, which seems to be gaining a fair bit of support. What's your current read on Spiffeh?Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
Like for example this:
Combined with this:In post 2300, Firebringer wrote:Reads rn
Town
Eddie Cane, Mulch, Chara
Spiffeh, Toranaga, Ginngie
Kmd43
Null
Patrick, implosion, Unabomeh
Scum lean
Aristophanes, Cabd
Scum
Cheetory, Kagami
Makes very little sense to me. It implies a level of certainty in Kagami being scum that I don't see how someone could have on day 1, such that a Kagami town-flip would bring Mulch right down to the bottom of the list, despite being a current strong town-read. It's not the only example, I think both Ginggie and Eddie have said that there is 1 scum among Kagami/Mulch, maybe someone else has as well. Why is that so likely to be true?In post 2305, Firebringer wrote:
Yeah I said that the other dayIn post 2304, Eddie Cane wrote:Do you agree if Kagami is town then Mulch slot is scum?Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
Well. Cabd is a bit hard to place until we get a report on the Friendly Neighbour thing - if he isn't one I can easily imagine him being scum. Otherwise both Aris and Unabombah seem like decent bets. My comment was more lazily hoping for an easy scumlynch today without firing up the brain at all, but I agree with waiting a bit on that.Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
I can just picture the private topic if this is the scumteam though, lol.In post 2690, Kmd4390 wrote:Mulch/Aris/Cabd?Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
I am definitely buying Kagami as town, it's true.In post 2708, Spiffeh wrote:Kagami it’s working no one’s suspecting us after bussing MulchPrimpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
Vote: cabd. Want a clear unambiguous statement on what he's claiming, not another day of skating by with something that could be retracted or changed later. If he's a confirmable town role I want that information now.
Vanity theory is some falling out in the PT, leading to cabd trolling around in this game and the obvious hostility between them in this thread. More realistic I think is that the hostility is just the two of them not liking each other.Cheetory wrote:I think some level of "I want to win" vs "I do not like this person" would be pulling at the way Mulch was pushing Cabd. Probably don't have time to do that until tomorrow though.
Definitely need a claim from Unabombah.Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
People I think are town: Cheetory, Eddie Cane, Kagami, implosion.
Remaining players: cabd, Firebringer, Una, Aristophanes, Spiffeh, chara, Ginggie, Toranaga, Kmd439034506043456
If the remaining scum are within (Unabombah, cabd, Aris) this should be pretty straightforward. A few other thoughts:
Based on memory I thought Ginngie was far more against Mulch than she actually was. Took quite a few pops at him but always gave him as town in read lists, also pushed Kagami wagon over Mulch until hammering when Assemble was clearly getting lynched. Sketchy, but a good number of people claiming meta-town reads. Drinking kool-aid on that one for now, but I don't think her actions in this thread look that good.
Assemble scum-lynch took the edge off my Spiffeh suspicions, who I suspected might be trying to exploit bad / messy play from Mulch. His vote came at a time where as scum he might have preferred to vote Kagami instead, putting the votes at 5-3 instead of tied at 4-4. I agree with whoever said earlier that scum wouldn't be that keen to bus with a 12:3 ratio - also minor note is that if cabd is town, the Mafia roleblocker could have blocked him to prevent any possible use of a Friendly Neighbour. So I'd imagine the mafia would have quite liked to preserve that role at least for a day. I'm not putting it beyond possible bussing, mainly because I still don't like aspects of Spiffeh's play.
Pedit: saw cabd's claim. Have a tough time seeing cabd being a scum nightkill after how day 1 went. I suggest letting Eddie say whatever he wanted to but I'm happy lynching cabd after that claim.Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England