Open 347: White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

Twistedspoon · Post Post #595 (isolation #0) » Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:43 pm

In post 587, Amrun wrote:Twissted: why did you choose cp to replace?

some welcome I get for replacing into a 24 page game

I have a post coming up which will answer this question among other things. Be patient Anyún

ninja:

that's more like it!

Twistedspoon · Post Post #596 (isolation #1) » Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:54 pm

if you want a quick answer as to why I demanded that slot, it's because
1) after a brief skim of the first 7 or so pages I felt he was difficult to read and would like to know his alignment myself so that I wouldn't need to work it out
2) because I felt a challenging position would be ideal for my return to mafia.
3) because I can read you well Anyún. Very well indeed. By the end of Day 2 I assure you I'll know if you're scum or not.

Twistedspoon · Post Post #605 (isolation #2) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:38 am

In post 598, Equinox wrote:
In post 596, Twistedspoon wrote:if you want a quick answer as to why I demanded that slot, it's because
1) after a brief skim of the first 7 or so pages I felt he was difficult to read and would like to know his alignment myself so that I wouldn't need to work it out

Did you like the answer?

It was a brief moment of relief at the role before realising That I'd have to bouckle down and crack on with my work.
It's comaprable to say, receiving a free pair of tickets to see Phil collins. It's a pleasant surprise at first but then you realise there's going to be a lot of strain to endure before you can relax

now I must crack on with my ananlysis. If you wouldn't mind being patient. Only waiting moves can really be played whilst I finalise it and replacements are sought.

Twistedspoon · Post Post #614 (isolation #3) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:25 am

And this is my grand return to mafia after a long long time. And what a fine playerlist it is

Let's Roll on then shall we?

Introductions

So, you guys are going to need my help as much as I'm going to need yours. I've never won a agame without co-operation and I doubt any town has, so even though we can't all trust each other, we've got to listen to each other here. I'll play to my strengths and I'll have you play to yours if you want to stay in my good books. This game is getting 110% of my effort now, so I expect to get 110% out of it, and if any players let the side down in contributions (such as the person who I demanded to replace after seeing his woeful contributions) then I know where I'll be cementing my vote.

so first things first. Let's have some analysis shall we?

before I get to character analysis I want to give my

first impressions of the setup

, a fundamental discussion for town in games with a different wincon for town. This was never discussed by you at the start of the game, instead you just dived in to one of the most questionable RVSs I've seen in a along time (I'll get to that later).
White Flag. Usually I refrain from this setup (along with most open setups. I dislike not having the pleasure of discovering the setup as I play. I frown upon the open queue usually, but playing again with some of my old friends and a personal request from the mod made me make this one exception) for a variety of reasons, but one of the most obvious is that it requires different playstyles for both town and scum. As scum you're the mouse rather than the cat for once. Two strikes and you're out.
Only one chance to slip up.
The constant pressure of letting the site down is much more prevalent in white flag. Bussing is driven to the very extremes of bussing. It's very high risk, very high reward. Bus and risk losing your only strike if not the game, for volatile town cred, or play safe and protect your buddies putting all your eggs in one basket. Neither option is safe for scum at all so it's only natural for scum to be ever more distant from each other than before in white flag. In this trilemma it's the easiest and safest option. Both bussing and white-knighting are extrememly risky in this game so scum have to be distant to the extremes.

Thus the change in the scum playstyle overspills into the town playstyle. A new scum metagame means new scumhunting must be employed. Once one mafioso is caught only the bravest scum will be able to resist protecting their buddy and their only hope of remaining in the game.
All the eggs in one basket. Alas we are not at this stage yet, and I look forwards to the cat and mouse game when we reach it should I be alive. Yes. There's nothing I find more thrilling than cornering a squealing mafioso. The feeling when the rabbit is caught in the headlights. When the owl finally swoops for the prey. There is little more savoury.
But I digress
What scum behaviour (and thus town tactics) can we expect now; in day 1?
Defensive or offensive? Bussing or distant?
This should have been discussed at the start of the game, the results and sharing of knowledge being both another weapon avaliable for every townie to use when judging players, and the discussion also has the beautiful effect of unnerving the huddling mafiosi cauding a fine compress of pressure, which when executed correctly, has the tantalising effect of causing all sorts of irrational play from the mafia as they try to dodge the mould they believe the town is hunting for. Once you crack how the mafia play or (force them to avert from the rational and make mistakes) it's only the simplest jigsaw in unmasking them.

So perhaps white flag does have a subtle beauty to it. At least to the town anyways, and that's all that matters now.

Now that the formalities are out of the way all that needs to be done is evaluate the candidates, and deduce the likelihood of the characters among us being mafiosi.
Occasionally it is is easier to identify towntells and dub people as town leaving the scum to be corned without any way out from the binding coil of process of elimination without attacking the town reads themselves and creating even more enemies themselves. This spiral is one of the most fascinating... and succulent aspects of process of elimination. If the correct methods are applied when deducing the townies it's both effective and delightful in watching the scum squirm and flail as you slowly close in...

For When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains must be the truth.

in order of the playerlist

Spoiler: Equinox

Spoiler: Anyún

Spoiler: Quilford

Spoiler: SleepyKrew

Spoiler: Nobody Special

Spoiler: bvoigt

Spoiler: DonJosh

Spoiler: Fruit Basket

Spoiler: trekker

Spoiler: fatlikepig

Spoiler: ScreamingHawk

Spoiler: Cross_Pollination

Spoiler: kondi2424

so those are my reads They're qualitative, not quantative so i won't be putting them in a list for you. All you need to know is who I'm voting and that will be. I hope trekker is replaced soon. Until then
VOTE: Trekker
ninja: I'm not sure what you're saying in #608 Anyún
ninja #2: I think it's actually the smart move to let the replacements choose who they replace as the mod may be more biased to having a scum or town slot replaced first if one side is being let down badly whereas the player who is replacing in is ignorant of alignment..

Twistedspoon · Post Post #616 (isolation #4) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:51 am

Trekker isn't a hydra

he's a real person

I've played with him before

Twistedspoon · Post Post #618 (isolation #5) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:34 am

sorry, that bolded part was meant to be for fruit basket

and thankyou very much, but that wall could have been even larger had I not taken the liberty of using spoiler tags. would you rather I didn't?
Or would you rather C_P was here?

After the time i put into that catchup posts (and you can only expect catchup posts to be that size for a 25 page recap) methinks you could've shown a bit more respect to my wall. It's more than some have contributed thus far.

Twistedspoon · Post Post #621 (isolation #6) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:22 am

sorry there padré

Twistedspoon · Post Post #623 (isolation #7) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:42 am

In post 622, ScreamingHawk wrote:
I haven't any completed games on forum before. So no sorry I can't point you to a previous game of mine.

fair enough

In post 622, ScreamingHawk wrote:
A note. Why not voting NS? No call for him to claim?

I'm not voting NS for the reason i covered in the reads list of mine.
As scum you must accept that NS was incredibly bold to call 2 players obvscum (here specifically but also here) and therefore get 2 enemies which scum would certainly not want in this setup. Surely you can see that. It's not a great scum tactic to make enemies and if you have to you should at least provide a reason or two as to why a person is scummy or not a scum.
If you can show my why a scum NS would needlessly give himself 2 or 3 players who want his blood and his lynch then I'd happily vote him as he has done precious little else to convince me that he's town

I'm not sure you're aware but in this setup the only roles are vanilla townie or mafiosi. Whichever role he is any player would claim vanilla townie thus asking NS to claim would be moot and pointless.

In post 622, ScreamingHawk wrote:
Also Trekker has just been/requested replacement. Your vote on him here seems like a cop out. And so enforces my feelings on above.

trekker has indeed requested replacement. The day won't end until he returns anyways and I certainly see him more suspect than NS so my vote will be pressure on whoever replaces him to get his act together lest i call for his lynch.
Other than Trekker I sadly find no compelling lynch for today

In post 622, ScreamingHawk wrote:Makes your lack of pressure on NS suspicious as a scum buddy.

surely you could say the same for anyone not voting NS, or I could even say it for those not voting trekker if I felt particularly nasty today.

Twistedspoon · Post Post #624 (isolation #8) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:43 am

I hope that answers your questions my kiwi comapdré

Twistedspoon · Post Post #626 (isolation #9) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:14 am

I agree rather well with pidgey's votable list. Quilford is a well-placed vote too

Twistedspoon · Post Post #633 (isolation #10) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:42 pm

In post 627, SleepyKrew wrote:Holy shit TS what happened to you?

I realised that I had to play back to my best again. I've been in some terrible form recently and now I can sink my teeth into this game

In post 627, SleepyKrew wrote:
Anyway TS, read on NS? It seemed pretty fence to me. Also a tl;dr would be nice.

read my original spoiler file on NS and my response to kiwi's last post and you'll see the reason why I'm not voting NS at present
my meta tells me NS plays like this as town too anyways so...

In post 628, bvoigt wrote:TS, I self-voted as a reaction test, but no one bit.

did you feel it worked? What reactions were you hoping for?

Twistedspoon · Post Post #636 (isolation #11) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:09 pm

In post 635, fatlikepig wrote:
Dat WIFOM. To answer your question though, yes, usually obvious scum is obviously scum.

yeah, but with NS it's more likely town methinks. He gambles far more than he ususally dies d1 as scum in this game. I accept the play is poor but I don't see him being scum as well.

In post 635, fatlikepig wrote:
As for NS calling people "obvscum", that could easily be scum overcompensating for the fact that they haven't given any reads earlier. It's an easy mistake to make, or at least so I think.

then why not call some players obvtown rather than obvscum and make much needed friends rather than enemies?

if NS flips town I may be looking at you amigo#
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
wowzers, just realised J replaced in. You might remember me from

that

newbie game

but as trekker too. :[
well you're going to have to convince me you're not scum first before we can scumhunt together again [J]

Twistedspoon · Post Post #651 (isolation #12) » Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:24 am

In post 642, J wrote:
Uhm, the only name I recognize on the player list is TS but I doubt he remembers me since it has been months since I played on this site.

Anyways, I will try and have some posts up later.

I remember you; how could I forget that game.

Nice to have you back anyways

very tempted to unvote [J] and vote quilford soon. The only thing stopping me at this moment of time is because I still think it's the townie mindset to be the first to provide a reads list in the game.

This really isn't the quilford I enjoy playing with

Twistedspoon · Post Post #653 (isolation #13) » Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:44 am

how is the DonJosh replacement going?

Not too great since I'm procrastinating because of illness and schoolwork.

Twistedspoon · Post Post #656 (isolation #14) » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:58 am

I'm not voting you for that, don't misrep. I'm voting you for being hardly pro-town at all this game whereas the old quilford knew how to hunt scum.
You've done zilch

I see no reason to continue voting [J] at least for now

VOTE: Quilford

I feel good about this vote

Twistedspoon · Post Post #657 (isolation #15) » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:00 am

In post 654, ScreamingHawk wrote:I'd really like to know why those
NOT
voting for NS find whoever they are voting for more scummy. In particular those voting the recently replaced players.

NS is on L-1. do you seriously want a lynch at this stage before DJ has even been replaced?

I've said enough times already why I am not voting NS and no-one has convinced me otherwise along the reasoning I am using for not voting him.

Twistedspoon · Post Post #659 (isolation #16) » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:19 am

no, I'm familiar with your town meta. This isn't it

and I'm not going to check one game which you cherry picked. Everyone has one bad game as town.

Twistedspoon · Post Post #662 (isolation #17) » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:30 am

neruzian mafia?
royal mafia?

how can you not remember these. You shouldn't be using meta as a defence anyways if you're town. Pointing out your own meta is a moot defence

anyways my point is I feel you're coasting and I'm not prepared to vote anyone else at the moment except for donjosh who is utterly unreadbale from his few posts and fat who i hope to review again as I said earlier and will probably do this during N1

ninja: you at least try as town. I don't even get the impression that you're trying to be logical from half of your posts (posts 98, 141, 366 and 641 come to mind)

Twistedspoon · Post Post #664 (isolation #18) » Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:48 am

I'm not lynching NS yet.

1) we haven't heard from DJ's rep
2) his uncaring play is similar to his town play
3) I still find some of his moves too bold for D1 scum

Twistedspoon · Post Post #702 (isolation #19) » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:40 pm

you lynched before DJ was replaced?
Something is fundamentally wrong here. >_>

Twistedspoon · Post Post #706 (isolation #20) » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:47 pm

In post 327, ScreamingHawk wrote:Initially thought I had. Sorry. Should start writing all my thoughts for this game down.
Going to have a read through NS past games. Good to join DJ wagon in sec.

Let me ask this question again. Answer it this time

why did you never present your findings from this research? Did you even do this?
What conclusions from his meta did you make that led to you thinking of NS scum?

Twistedspoon · Post Post #707 (isolation #21) » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:56 pm

You had all better hope NS was scum because I'm still real sure he was town. No-one actually answered or listened when I showed some of his play would have been mad for scum in giving himself needless enemies. V. angry if it's a town flip

In post 704, fatlikepig wrote:

SK wrote:Amrun is scum, regardless of NS's flip.

Elaborate?

Since when does SK elaborate?

In post 705, fatlikepig wrote:l

TS wrote:you lynched before DJ was replaced?
Something is fundamentally wrong here. >_>

This was what I was referring to.

so if you agree that NS shouldn't have been lynched yet why were you happy leaving him at L-1

Oh well, I at leas feel better that quilford wasn't on the wagon if NS does flip town.
if NS does flip town then I know that scum will have absolutely infested his wagon (especially in this setup). It would've been so easy. I can find them

Twistedspoon · Post Post #708 (isolation #22) » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:09 pm

(disclaimer: all assuming an imminent NS townflip)

In post 667, bvoigt wrote:
In other news, look at the VC. Nobody Special is our lynch today. Nothing else is happening. Can we get it done?

This post I dislike

"Don't vote NS because he is scum, but because 6 others are on the wagon"

This is a bad argument. Beyond RVS the only reason for votes should be scuminess and you don't explain why NS is scummy as you call for votes on him, but vote him for some other eason (wagon size)

why do you think it's ideal to end the day before the DJ replacement anyways bv?

and then we have this

In post 678, J wrote:
Speaking of NS, I haven't really a big opinion on him. He could be scum but I honestly could see where he could be town. So that makes him null for me.

and a few posts later

In post 696, J wrote:
This game needs some J spice to kick it into gear.

Unvote
Vote: Nobody Special

I had a change of heart. I'd rather wake up to a flip than rather wait all day at school, till after 6 to find a flip.

so you vote NS not ebcause he is scummy (as you admit) but for some other reason (that you're impatient)
I don't see how you can accept that he isn't scummy (you say you can see him as town) and then hammer him. It's almost as if you know he'll flip town and are defending yourself already by saying you never thought him scummy.

gtg now. This wagon is awful and crawling with terribad logic.

Twistedspoon · Post Post #746 (isolation #23) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:51 am

In post 743, Quilford wrote:
I'm confirmed town.

no

In post 738, pidgey wrote:Also didnt liked TS making cases before theres even a flip.

I wanted to get my thoughts out before the topic was locked. I felt and still feel strongly that NS will flip town. I've given my reasons why and no-one listened so it's perfectly reasonable for me to be angry atm

In post 719, Equinox wrote:
Since you seem to disagree, what do you think of the people who so far used meta to argue for Nobody Special-scum (i.e., Equinox and SleepyKrew)?

having been NS's scumbuddy in the past i think i know his meta thankyou

His meta is similar as town or scum. Only difference is (iirc) he lurks even more and is even more reluctant to give names or reasons as scum

In post 719, Equinox wrote:
Welcome, Twistedspoon. Damn, what are you, some kind of IC?

I wish. I failed my IC test for confusing all the newbies and being too informal

In post 720, Amrun wrote:As extremely terrible as that hammer was ... it probably didn't come from scum. *sigh*

explain why you think this please
(I agree J is v. likely probtown though at this stage)

In post 722, J wrote:
TS/Equi/FLP, if you had to choose one of Amrun/SH/SK to go next, who and why? If it was between Bvoigt/FB then who?

depends on the flip. Everything changes if NS somehow was scum.

NS town and I'd rather it was SH or SK and then FB (I think both FB and bv are town atm)
Ns scum and maybe amrun and probably FB but I find this unlikely

In post 712, J wrote:Replacement worry? Don't really see an issue because it could give the mod more time to search during the night phase of the game and also it'd just be another person trying to catch up desperately before deadline like myself and pidgy did. It'd be easier for the replacement to have some time to read during the night.

no, the night phase could end now, no replacement could be found until D2 and the rep won't catch up

whereas if we had a night phase he was around for he would have time to catch up

In post 711, J wrote:
For the first part of this quote, why do you keep saying "imminent town-flip"? No one knows the deffo answer till flip so....?

that's why i said "(

assuming

imminent town flip)"

In post 711, J wrote:
My flip wasn't because I was impatient

it sure sounded like you were the way you said

In post 696, J wrote:I'd rather wake up to a flip than rather wait all day at school, till after 6 to find a flip.

but I can see your reason for wanting info I guess

In post 726, Equinox wrote:
Your avatar needs a top hat and a monocle.

Yeah, I'm from the Uk. :p
You'd think in this way too if you had the screwtape letters audio CD played every night for the last week as you went to bed :/

In post 726, Equinox wrote:If Nobody Special flips town, I'm probably going after Twistedspoon because the posts where he kept insisting Nobody Special was town based on meta without pressuring the people who used meta to argue for Nobody Special's lynch are scummy in this instance

what?
How am I supposed to convince them that their previous expereince with NS was wrong? HOW?

"sorry chaps, my meta is better than yours. You're all wrong here. You all played with NS on a bad day. My meta is better than yours. My meta wins"

seriously, what?

In post 731, Equinox wrote:
I also wanna say there was something with a person like Hoplip/Ghostlin but my memory is a bit foggy.

i got hiplop as scum when faraday assured me he was town. I'm still proud of that

In post 731, Equinox wrote:
We'll see when Twistedspoon gets back to me about the meta thing. In the game you played with him, did Twistedspoon have the same buddying kind of attitude? That's the thing that bothers me more than anything else.

Can I answer this? I'm asking because it isn't addressed to me and you'll only have my word for the comments that I'd make about my own playstyle here.

In post 733, Fruit Basket wrote:

head 2 is sick and cutting down on games. You get more me for a while. fucking a star,

are you chamber? When you said cases are scummy earlier; that's his catchpharse

In post 737, Fruit Basket wrote:i
anyway Equinox TS paranoia looks legit and is a strong town tell based on what I know of her meta (which may range from an extensive knowledge to not very much at all), his whole roleplaying english gentleman thing is p usual for him, very baller indeed.

Don't call me a her

I'd like to know which games of mine you were in if you don't mind saying.

(Just ftr I'm not really an english gent. I'm as far from that as you could actually be, but I enjoy playing to the stereotypes you have of us brits)

In post 740, ScreamingHawk wrote:
FYI I'm voting NS because of active lurking and zero contribution. V scummy. Though if he isn't scum, I don't see anything of value being lost (answer to answer question I missed answering either) as it's not like he was providing anything useful for town except another player slot.

same for quilford and don josh

Sk, stop picking on Amrun. If she is town you're underestimating the true value she has

Twistedspoon · Post Post #748 (isolation #24) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:21 am

one last point I'd like to make

some of you may have noticed quilford's odd obsession with being conf. town.
I have seen this in one game prior. In neither this or that game did I see much reason to view him as such but he did turn out to be town if that's anything to go by

evidence:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3336752
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p3334077
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3338583
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p3338477
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p3338214

Twistedspoon · Post Post #750 (isolation #25) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:24 am

In post 747, Nobody Special wrote:I have apparently been hammered.

I'm a VT.

Any questions for me?

1) are you lying
2) who was the most suspicious person on your wagon
3) who was the most suspicious person off of your wagon
4) who was the most townie person on your wagon?
5) any other town or scum reads for us to dwell on in the night?
6) did you try your best? If so why not?
7) anything else?

adios amigo

Twistedspoon · Post Post #754 (isolation #26) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:28 am

In post 749, J wrote:
Absolutely did TS have the same attitude to people. Hoooowever, he has a really harsh whiplash on reads that he even buddies. Mine and Faraday's wounds can attest to this.

I like to be friendly at the start (buddy?) but then if I catch you being suspect or letting the side down you'll get no sympathy from me

@eqinox: am I not correct in my memory of you modding an open game I was in?

Twistedspoon · Post Post #758 (isolation #27) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:33 am

In post 753, bvoigt wrote:
I still find Twistedspoon, who replaced C_P, scummy. His catchup post was a massive wall, but it didn't really say much.

where I felt I was lacking i promised to fix (my fat review)
that and being the first rep and the hours I spent on that post i don't know what more you could ask.
I've provided links to posts, quotes, meta refrences and everything else. How can you tell me it was a ball of fluff? how?

I don't see how you can say it didn't say much either. Already I've overtaken you in post count (not the best indicator of quality but still)
You need to be a little more respectful of my catchup posts compadré

Twistedspoon · Post Post #761 (isolation #28) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:36 am

In post 760, J wrote:I think you were a bit over-defensive to that statement TS. Left a bad taste in my mouth.

More hurt than defensive
I spent hours on that post.

Twistedspoon · Post Post #762 (isolation #29) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:39 am

if anyone criticises my legendary length catchup posts without saying why or says I post fluff, then I do get rather defensive as my pride is at stake.

Twistedspoon · Post Post #763 (isolation #30) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:40 am

@NS: are you sure it would not be a little too risky for scum to have all 3 mafiosi on your wagon?

Twistedspoon · Post Post #788 (isolation #31) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:55 pm

In post 772, Amrun wrote:TS was on my team in team mafia, Equinox... that's KINDASORTA some experience. It's interesting that he didn't cite it and instead cited some mod experience, though...

couldn't I have cited any of our games?

In post 776, SleepyKrew wrote:TS, is that seriously your defense of Amrun? Please tell me you're joking.
Equinox, what did I not read?

PEDIT:
WHOA WHOA WHOA
SCUMSLIP

It wasn't a defence. Why would I need to defend her when we've already lynched today anyways?

In post 787, Nobody Special wrote:
In post 778, SleepyKrew wrote:
In post 774, fatlikepig wrote:Now that NS's flipped town,

I also see this as a pretty blatant scumslip.

as do I

Twistedspoon · Post Post #789 (isolation #32) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:56 pm

Speech night tonight so I may not get around to any other questions tonight. Hopefully I will

Twistedspoon · Post Post #791 (isolation #33) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:58 pm

because NS hasn't actually flipped town yet, and only scum would know for sure if he was a real townie.
That and he'd just spent the last ~30 pages believing he was scum it does look unusual for him to say he's a townie before he's even flipped for sure.

that's how I see it anyways.

Twistedspoon · Post Post #793 (isolation #34) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:08 pm

In post 792, Quilford wrote:NS had explained that he was town. Pretty sure FLP just made a wording mistake.

yeah, but even NS admits he didn't explain it to the extent that it should be considered truth by the way he pointed out the slip :p

Twistedspoon · Post Post #811 (isolation #35) » Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:09 am

I expected equinox to die. unusual

Twistedspoon · Post Post #812 (isolation #36) » Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:12 am

who's scum, fat?

Twistedspoon · Post Post #813 (isolation #37) » Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:14 am

I don't think amrun is scum

after all the invitations she had to join the NS wagon I strongly think she would have taken one. She made herself stand out by not voting NS. not a move i'd see scum taking

so I have to agree with NS that most of the obvious scum will be on the NS wagon. The only question is where to start

Twistedspoon · Post Post #847 (isolation #38) » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:59 pm

@quilf: if you're just going to use the exam excuse to not offer anything then why not replace out?

In post 817, Equinox wrote:Blargh.

I was going to instavote Fruit Basket today, but I'm still here and I think they would have shot me if they were scum. I need to think about Twistedspoon, too. I'll go over my notes later today.

Twistedspoon, what's your read of SleepyKrew?

well I'm not sure. He isn't often the lead in any wagon but I think he tries to be.
He was on the NS wagon though despite my best efforts to derail it :[
And I'm not sure SK would have killed [J] either. That was either an incredibly daft or subtly masterminded plan. I don't see SK as either.

I have a top 3 of people I definitely do not want to lynch today. Sk is not in it

In post 814, pidgey wrote:Im pretty certain about this

Vote: quillford

I'm listening. Tell me your reasons

Twistedspoon · Post Post #869 (isolation #39) » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:46 am

In post 865, ScreamingHawk wrote:@^ So everyone is null then? Except TS who is town. And bviogt who is null-scum. That's not a great analysis.
Also does the dead being in green mean they were town? It wasn't explicitly said.
If so the above on [J]
appearing town
AFTER begin NK'd is a little off.

yeah, green text means town

In post 867, fatlikepig wrote:Ewwww them townslips.

Unvote

Do i get the impression here you don't like townslips? :/

Twistedspoon · Post Post #871 (isolation #40) » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:54 am

tbh, I think his reads list is quite genuine. I find it more townie at this stage to call a large number of players null as scum would try to make their reads as unoticable and generic as possible to blend in and stay safe. Jer's reads are neither generic or unoticable and I find that rather town in a small sense. I agree that a list of null reads is unhelpful and disappointing as well though.
My logic against the NS lynch was that scum wouldn't want to stick out as much and be as bold as he was. I think the same may be true here.

Twistedspoon · Post Post #873 (isolation #41) » Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:09 am

unusual thinking perhaps, but certainly serious.
I listen to my gut when it speaks to me. I thought I'd share it. No harm there?

Scum put more effort into making their reads look normal. Jerro clearly didn't. Scum have most to lose etc. Scum have to blend in etc.
it's the same thinking as the NS wagon

and I don't see how you can criticise my reads comapdré. I could be criticising quite a few of you right now and saying "i told you so" after you were all on that NS wagon (which flipped town) that I warned you against but I'm not

Twistedspoon · Post Post #876 (isolation #42) » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:58 am

In post 875, pidgey wrote:
Whoever thinks fat is town because he had a "slip" is dumb. He could be scum and could thought that. Or fake it. Or whatever. I myself thought we had to get all the scum since like 4 real life days ago, when I actually reread the opening post.

you mean hawk? hawk 'slipped' not fat
incidentally what is your take on fat?

Twistedspoon · Post Post #880 (isolation #43) » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:49 am

In post 879, Fruit Basket wrote:I can't find that post now. Am I confusing fat with someone else?

i can't find 'that' post either :/

Twistedspoon · Post Post #910 (isolation #44) » Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:05 pm

In post 908, ScreamingHawk wrote:
In post 895, bvoigt wrote:

In post 871, Twistedspoon wrote:tbh, I think his reads list is quite genuine. I find it more townie at this stage to call a large number of players null as scum would try to make their reads as unoticable and generic as possible to blend in and stay safe. Jer's reads are neither generic or unoticable and I find that rather town in a small sense. I agree that a list of null reads is unhelpful and disappointing as well though.
My logic against the NS lynch was that scum wouldn't want to stick out as much and be as bold as he was. I think the same may be true here.

Doesn't a large number of null reads satisfy the notions of "unnoticable and generic"? A strong scum read or town read just makes it more likely that people will disagree and possibly argue with you.

I'm also reposting this because I agree whole heartedly and would like to see comment from TS.

not really

By blending in I meant having the same town and scum reads as many of the other players or the stronger members of the town without many reasons to back them up. All to fit in of course

However Jer sticks out. Many nulls is just an overly-cautious townie not sure who to brand with which iron. And yes, he does look very awkward with his reads list, where i'd see a scum replacement merely sheep the strongest members of the town for their reads to get in their good bookss and fit in.
This is what i mean

Of course, I also agree with Bv's reason of "Gut" as i said earlier

Twistedspoon · Post Post #911 (isolation #45) » Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:07 pm

In post 882, fatlikepig wrote:Post #3 in my ISO.

that may not be a slip
even scum could confuse days until lynch. It's just a mistake

SH's was a townslip of sorts because he didn't know if NS was town for sure yet but as scum he would

Twistedspoon · Post Post #926 (isolation #46) » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:39 am

In post 914, Equinox wrote:so uh

Good news is that I'm caught up. Bad news is that I'm confused as all hell, and this game gives me a headache.
[/b]

join the club

I have many town reads and no (strong) scumreads at this point
I think PofE might be the best way around this at this time. Use the townreads to deduce the scumreads

due to PofE and a small gut feel I'm thinking fat

may

not be as town as I once thought. I keep putting off reviewing him because I don't remember him doing that much wrong, but he just isn't as town to me as many of my other reads.
I'd vote him but It really does suck to be voted by someone when all they have is gut and you can't reason with them, and that's a bit unfair on fat, especially if he is town

In post 919, bvoigt wrote:
@Twistedspoon: That does make sense, I have to admit.

ta

Twistedspoon · Post Post #927 (isolation #47) » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:39 am

slightly off topic but

@mod: is there a dead qt?

Twistedspoon · Post Post #938 (isolation #48) » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:13 pm

My vote is doing nothing. ime to place it
VOTE: fat

In post 935, fatlikepig wrote:Pidgey's continual denial of the validity of scum tells isn't sitting too well with me at the moment. Seems like the type of thing scum would do, keep their options, etc.

So you didn't mention this before equinox voted pidgey first?
Need the protection of ol' Equinox before you choose your myslynch?

You won't call out pidgey for being suspect until equinox makes the first move

Like I say fat, I suspect you greatly, and I'm happy for you to add to the fire.
I'll iso you soon

In post 933, Equinox wrote:
Vote: pidgey

pidgey claims that clearing people based on "slips" is foolhardy because it can be faked or scum can misunderstand the setup, too; in the same breath, he gives an example of how he misunderstood the setup. This does not compute.

my impression of what he was saying we all do silly mistakes (an example being himself) but that's no reason to see everyone as conf. town.

pidgey isn't a great vote imho, and If I find you on two myslynch wagons equinox then I'm seriously going to consider you D3

Twistedspoon · Post Post #944 (isolation #49) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:51 am

In post 939, Equinox wrote:
In post 938, Twistedspoon wrote:If I find you on two myslynch wagons equinox then I'm seriously going to consider you D3

*stares at Twistedspoon*

so you'd find a player who had a hand in lynching 2 townies not suspicious at all?

Twistedspoon · Post Post #949 (isolation #50) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:53 am

In post 946, Fruit Basket wrote:
In post 944, Twistedspoon wrote:
In post 939, Equinox wrote:
In post 938, Twistedspoon wrote:If I find you on two myslynch wagons equinox then I'm seriously going to consider you D3

*stares at Twistedspoon*

so you'd find a player who had a hand in lynching 2 townies not suspicious at all?

can you explain your usage of the smiley here? thanks. (not interested in the rest, want to know why you chose to use this particular smiley)

It's an inquisitive of sceptical smiley

In post 947, Fruit Basket wrote:
In post 912, Amrun wrote:TS giving me townvibes... Having a hard time moving on from my intense c_p scumread, though.

^ bullshit and fake

which part?

Twistedspoon · Post Post #958 (isolation #51) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:36 am

In post 953, Equinox wrote:
In post 944, Twistedspoon wrote:
In post 939, Equinox wrote:
In post 938, Twistedspoon wrote:If I find you on two myslynch wagons equinox then I'm seriously going to consider you D3

*stares at Twistedspoon*

so you'd find a player who had a hand in lynching 2 townies not suspicious at all?

No, I'd want to find out what part they had in those two mislynches. Let me ask you something, Twistedspoon. Now that you've basically threatened me to be right or die, let's suppose we mislynch today, and I'm not on the wagon. I've deftly avoided the lynching wagon to join some other one. What would you think of me then?

wowzers.
not right or die. not that at all
It's more a matter of if you lynch town again then I'll review you again and not see you as town as I think you now.
Not sure I understand your question. If you don't lynch town again, I'm happy for now.

Twistedspoon · Post Post #978 (isolation #52) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:06 pm

In post 961, Equinox wrote:
In post 958, Twistedspoon wrote:It's more a matter of if you lynch town again then I'll review you again and not see you as town as I think you now.
Not sure I understand your question. If you don't lynch town again, I'm happy for now.

Okay, that's fair. Let me rephrase my question. Suppose we have a mislynch today, but I did not participate in the lynch. What would you think then?

then I'd like to think that your NS wagoning was a one-off and that we both share the same aim of lynching the same faction

In post 976, Amrun wrote:
In post 971, SleepyKrew wrote:PEDIT: ILL DO IT TO AND OH LOOK AMRUN IS IGNORING
MY LATEST POINTS AGAINST HER
SHES SCUM

Herpderp?

But all your other points suck just as much.

SKrew, I think you are town.

Just wrong.

why do you think he is town?

Twistedspoon · Post Post #980 (isolation #53) » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:16 pm

In post 979, Amrun wrote:Gut and meta for the most part. I think he'd be a lot more likely to buddy me as scum than oppose me.

in my opinion, when a player cannot provide reasons for why they want their lynch, that doesn't seem very town

however I might agree with you on meta there

@sk: what alignment were you in zom com mafia?

Twistedspoon · Post Post #990 (isolation #54) » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:25 am

In post 989, ScreamingHawk wrote:
In post 819, Amrun wrote:Torn between voting fruit and twistedspoon.

VOTE: fruit basket

It's interesting that TS expresses a townread and fruit tries to undermine it. Especially early game, that's a scumtell.

You voted FB after only making a (weak) comment about TS being scum. Why not vote TS then? What's your case on FB.

uh, I think you misread the last sentence. Amrun is saying she thought she got a scumtell from fruit, which is why she's voting him :p

Twistedspoon · Post Post #995 (isolation #55) » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:15 am

In post 993, Amrun wrote:
In post 992, ScreamingHawk wrote:Just fyi Amrun. The best case I can see from you for C_P being scum is your very first post. Because of the quick lynch thing. Was that it? You make a couple more vague references to his appearing newbscum but that's all I can see. Please quote / explain otherwise because I've asked you this so many times before and your response to look but through your iso does not help me here.

There are SO MANY other reasons, many of which I noted. He was very inconsistent; at first, he was cautious, but then pushed to end the day with just as little cause. One indicates one type of newbie, the other a totally different type. You can't both be the cautious and incautious type of newbie. It's incongruous.

so is the inconsistent newbie the town or scum one? I find many newbies of both alignments to be inconsistent and irrational, especially as a fish-out-of-water in a mini normal (not the comfotable newbie game zone)

but like I've said, I'm not interested in defending my predecessor really.

Twistedspoon · Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:31 pm

In post 1011, SleepyKrew wrote:TS why'd you ask me about ZomCom?
Amrun why are you scum?

because i never learned what alignment you were, and any meta helps

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1022 (isolation #57) » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:23 am

I'm far from convinced amrun is scum personally.

I've said why am not interested in doing so again. Fat is mafiosi.
I'll try and get round to iso'ing him on monday

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1030 (isolation #58) » Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:56 am

Amrun is near-conf.town to me

atm I'm thinking two of the mafiosi are bv and fat right now (gut and pofe atm), but will give them the respect of not pushing their wagon until I actually get some good evidence on one of them (just in case they are town and because it is quite unfair to do this without providing reasons above gut)

I'm just a little busy atm

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1032 (isolation #59) » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:06 am

because I just reckon she would have had no real reason to refuse joining the NS wagon after all the invitations she was offered to do so. What motive would she have had to push a CP lynch when a NS lynch was far easier and far safer as scum? She wouldn't have stuck out half as much either had she chosen to join the NS wagon and would have appeased the townsmembers who called her to join the wagon. There was no reason for her to push a lurker's wagon to no avail when the perfect myslynch was being offered to her on a golden platter

Amrun scum makes no sense to me and it shouldn't to you

Having also played with her numerous times, including once as her mafiosi buddy, I'm confident this is Anyún town

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1033 (isolation #60) » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:08 am

most of, if not all of, the scum will have been on the NS wagon. It was the perfect myslynch for scum to ride on or push.

we should be looking there way before we even consider amrun and the rest of the non-NS voters.

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1035 (isolation #61) » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:23 am

In post 1034, jerobbo wrote:So if you think all the scum are on the NS wagon, then Amrun not joining the wagon would have been a pretty clever scum move.

we only have to lynch two though

assuming one scum isn't on the wagon, it's still far easier (and more likely to lynch) to lynch the suspect ones who rode the gift-given NS wagon

In post 1034, jerobbo wrote:So if you think all the scum are on the NS wagon, then Amrun not joining the wagon would have been a pretty clever scum move.

NS looked like he was going down anyway, so not hopping on the wagon when she knew he was going to flip town could well have been a good move.

he was going down because scum were involved in his lynch. Therefore scum are more likely to be on the wagon

Some scum were (almost) definitely on the wagon. We do not know for sure if there were some off of it. There is a much larger uncertainty off of the wagon

therefore I do not see why we're making things harder for ourselves. We should be lynching the obvious ones. Amrun isn't obvious scum at all, and even if she was we'd only be making it harder for ourselves as there are almost certainly two on the wagon.

Twistedspoon · Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:52 pm

In post 1039, Fruit Basket wrote:
In post 1032, Twistedspoon wrote:There was no reason for her to push a lurker's wagon to no avail when the perfect myslynch was being offered to her on a golden platter

she didn't push ANYTHING. she just did fucking nothing. she's scum and we're lynching her today.

I remember her pushing my wagon very hard before i replaced in

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1054 (isolation #63) » Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:23 am

not thinking equinox is scum this time amrun

that call for players to threaten to lynch him if he didn't pick up his pace was one of the towniest things that has happened all game

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1060 (isolation #64) » Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:40 am

sorry, I got a huge chemistry and economics thing to prepare for. I'm super busy atm but I'll try to get some thoughts down

In post 652, Morthas wrote:

Nobody Special
: Fruit Basket, ScreamingHawk, SleepyKrew, bvoigt, fatlikepig, Equinox,

Let's do this quick

here are the living lynchers of NS, A wagon so easy fro scum to ride on that it makes no sense to ignore it as everyone has done so so far.

Lynching a player off of the wagon today makes little sense when it is far more likely that we'll hit scum on the wagon

FB was on NS' wagon from the start so he wasn't exactly riding it for convenience. Furthermore there are signs that he was genuinely thinking NS was mafiosi.

In post 535, Fruit Basket wrote:i'd not have signed up if i knew this had 3 week deadlines

can we just fucking lynch NS this is stupid he's scum let's kill him

second line reads very genuine and very town, as if there is no possible alternative to him other than NS scum, something which scum cannot think

In post 676, Fruit Basket wrote:SH is obvtown (I said so before Equi too iirc!!)

In post 311, Fruit Basket wrote:SH is probably town actually.

In post 511, Fruit Basket wrote:ScreamingHawk is literally confirmed town now.

FB does make the point that SH is town quite often

any ways, I see that as town myself as delaring players town isn't a usual tactic for scum as it reduces their myslynch pool. Scum are usually relucatant to declare people town, rather remain only sightly town or slightly scum so as to jump on should a wagon emerge.
I haven't seen to much to persuade me of FB scum at all.

looking at Fat's and BV's isos I note that they have

No interactions

between each other. Good work at distancing guys. I'm considering you both for mafiosi

In post 436, bvoigt wrote:UNVOTE: Cross_Pollination
VOTE: Nobody Special

This is a good lynch.

is BV's first mention of NS. no reasons whatsoever as to why NS should be lynched. If that isn't a scummy entrance onto a wagon i don't know what is

In post 718, bvoigt wrote:That was a really weird hammer. J was definitely working against the NS wagon, and then she suddenly changes her mind?

In post 687, J wrote:Bvoigt, can you link me to some posts of yours which you feel is you providing good content? Who is your biggest scum-read? Second biggest?

Case on Cross_Pollination
Case on trekker
Case on Nobody Special

when J asked bv of his case on NS Bv did was link to a one-line post stating that he agreed with the other player's points of NS without outlining any reasons of his own. Not good and a fine way to ride a myslynch wagon unoticed.
Also gives BV a (weak) motive to dispose of J

I'm rather tired atm and will have to stop

lynch today should be fat or BV, and certainly no-one off of the wagon

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1070 (isolation #65) » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:30 am

In post 1062, Amrun wrote:
FB has been pushing crap cases and undermining people's townreads. He's been using ad hom and intentionally distracting away from the points at hand.

he's only pushed 2 wagons, yours and NS's

and others have pushed the same wagons

NS, quilford and SK have all contributed and provided logical fallacies to a greater extent too

In post 1069, Amrun wrote:Please don't replace out, Equinox. I'll go insane with this playerlist.

I'm not that bad am I?

In post 1066, fatlikepig wrote:VOTE: bvoigt

TS's case is a good one. As for the lack of interaction between myself and him, it wouldn't be the first time that two players haven't addressed each other for the whole game.

but you admit it's suspect that neither of you have even mentioned each other?

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1074 (isolation #66) » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:39 am

In post 1071, Amrun wrote:
I am usually good with newbies. I don't know why this game annoys me so much.

it's because everyone has completely different reads this game. No-one can agree on who to lynch

that and some posters hardly seem to have provided much at all, and it's the time of year where everyone's super busy don't help matters much here

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1088 (isolation #67) » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:46 am

we're not in a newbie game anymore

still reads as distancing to me for now

Twistedspoon · Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:09 am

this is really town Anyún guys

I've been scumbuddies with her in the past and know when she's town.

I made this promise in the second post of mine

In post 596, Twistedspoon wrote:
3) because I can read you well Anyún. Very well indeed. By the end of Day 2 I assure you I'll know if you're scum or not.

now I know

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1115 (isolation #69) » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:52 pm

In post 1107, bvoigt wrote:
@Twistedspoon in #1060: In your experience, is intentionally avoiding their buddies something scum tend to do? I'd say I've also had limited interactions with Equinox, pidgey, and probably a couple of others.

At the point when I voted NS,
there was a wagon growing on him
. So I did an ISO read and found that it was devoid of content. Because of that low amount of content, there wasn't a whole lot I could say that hadn't been brought up already. I did add a minor point here.

looking at the bold you voted NS because there was a wagon?

or was it because he was "devoid of content" which I also find hard to believe from a non-myslynching point of view of DJ, C_P, Kondi, Trekker and Quilf had all done zilch

it still seems to me like you were riding a myslynch and look one of the worst on the wagon

and yes, scum do tend to distance to prevent connections being drawn between them

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1125 (isolation #70) » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:29 am

In post 1124, Fruit Basket wrote:i don't really care about his opinion on amrun, since i have probably skimmed/read/seen most of her games on ms so my meta knowledge is pretty good, so that doesn't strike a chord.

you should care about the opinions of another member of the town, especially one who you believe to be town

skimming or reading games doesn't quite have the same mindset as having been mafiosi partners with Amrun does it though?

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1127 (isolation #71) » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:42 am

changing your entire playstyle is easier said than done.

It's like changing your personality. Whilst you may make your best efforts at the end of the day you are who you are and eventually that will show

I've played at least 5 games with amrun before this (from the top of my head)

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1129 (isolation #72) » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:54 am

no, I have other reasons too which I have stated many a time. I'm not going to post them again, especially since Amrun isn't getting lynched today it seems

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1131 (isolation #73) » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:02 am

Amrun wasn't even on Ns's wagon; it makes no sense to go for her first anyways. The probability is far lower

anyways, we're still due 2 golden catchup posts

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1140 (isolation #74) » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:06 am

SK, start playing for real or replace out

you never explain anything and I've got to the point where I'm just plain sick of it

you haven't made any analysis or anything and you're never going to persuade anyone when you don't act as part of the town at all. It would appear that any analysis or evaluation or any sound reasons whatsoever beyond logical fallacies and conflation are beyond any capacity of yours whatsoever. I'd challenge you to prove me wrong but I feel as though you're on a completely different wavelength here >_>

When you've done zilch you have no right to be making wild baseless accusations amigo

Twistedspoon · Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:28 am

In post 1144, Fruit Basket wrote:busy today, football's on

can't blame you

In post 1144, Fruit Basket wrote: i use meta, so reading games and reading scum quicktopics helps me get an insight. off the top of my head i've read designer, mafiascumfantasy camp, white flag, a jason game maybe x-files plus pretty much any large theme since i read them all.

so what conclusions did you make of amrun's meta from reading her games?

In post 1144, Fruit Basket wrote:oh, do you think pidgey is a good or bad guy?

good

In post 1144, Fruit Basket wrote:
main point: can everyone post their top three by this time tomorrow?

top 3 to lynch?

fat, BV and someone else who was on NS's wagon

In post 1142, SleepyKrew wrote:
TS I miss the old you. Come back. Please.

elaborate
from what you knew of the old me I hardly posted and formed very weak opinions which I pushed much farther than I could justify and remained closed-minded

Bring the Old SK back instead

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1154 (isolation #76) » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:06 pm

In post 1148, Amrun wrote:oh my god i literally forgot quilford was in this game

lynch him?

no

I've said why we shouldn't :/

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1155 (isolation #77) » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:09 pm

In post 1152, ScreamingHawk wrote:Meow. Who are your top 3 at this point SK?

asking sk for his top 3 is as useful as rolling a dice. It's utterly random from all you can tell

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1156 (isolation #78) » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:13 pm

yeah, as well as quilford being the first to make a reads list, which I find an inherantly town thought I found http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p3557101 reasonable to not lynch him today.

besides, he was off the wagon. For the last time it makes no sense to lynch someone off of the wagon at first. The probability is far lower, if any at all

Twistedspoon · Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:56 am

In post 1162, bvoigt wrote:
In post 1115, Twistedspoon wrote:
In post 1107, bvoigt wrote:
@Twistedspoon in #1060: In your experience, is intentionally avoiding their buddies something scum tend to do? I'd say I've also had limited interactions with Equinox, pidgey, and probably a couple of others.

At the point when I voted NS,
there was a wagon growing on him
. So I did an ISO read and found that it was devoid of content. Because of that low amount of content, there wasn't a whole lot I could say that hadn't been brought up already. I did add a minor point here.

looking at the bold you voted NS because there was a wagon?
or was it because he was "devoid of content" which I also find hard to believe from a non-myslynching point of view of DJ, C_P, Kondi, Trekker and Quilf had all done zilch

Did I say that's why I voted him? I think it's pretty clear what I meant-- I did an ISO read because of the growing wagon. I find this a scummy twisting of words.

or maybe I needed clarification which is what I was looking for since you provided no reasons at the time

In post 1157, fatlikepig wrote:TS, you seem to think that all 3 scum were on the NS wagon at the moment. Given that the setup is White Flag, don't you think that chances are that at least one, if not two, scum were on different wagons?

I have only indicated 2 people I would like to lynch today. Where the third scum lies I am unsure but due to my town reads on all the people off of the wagon i am resigned to assume he is on the wagon as well unless I am wrong about one of my town reads
Tbh, If i'm right about the two who give me the scum reads then it doesn't really matter who no.3 is does it?

SK looks good though

In post 1160, Quilford wrote:

Twistedspoon
(his opening post seemed like good ol' obvtown twisted, but all his posts past them have contained minimal scumhunting.

seriously, I have a lot of bad words going through my head right now which I'm tempted to rage with. If you can just walk in here and say I have done zilchers the past 20 pages when I've given my all and poured hours into ISos and analysis that's all I can give then I may as well just go now.
You have some nerve!

Twistedspoon · Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:11 am

In post 1160, Quilford wrote:

Town (S to W)

bvoigt
... moreover, I don't think a [J] kill makes sense coming from him)

yeah, did you even read the thread before you walked in here quilford?

In post 798, J wrote:I wanna look into Quil/FB/Bvoigt/DJ's slot toMorrow most liiiiikely. Same with SH but I'm probably gonna have to re-read that slot sometime.

In post 687, J wrote:

Vote: Amrun

Him/Bvoigt/NS can go.

In post 674, J wrote:
Dislike bvoigt. I haven't seen a single post I really care for that doesn't give me a read that isn't null/scummy. He seems to just be skating along doing nothing and trying to just blend in.

yeah, and you say BV had no reason did kill [J]?

Did you even read the thread quilford!

You have some **** nerve to come here and say my play has been **** when you can't even read a thread for yourself.

you say I've done no zarking analysis. look at all the isos, links quotes and everything I've done. Bear in mind I've only had to read up 25 pages and account for players who have done nothing at all like yourself and you still walk here all Mighty proud of yourself!
well if my best isn't good enough for princess quilford when he can't even see that [J] found BV scummy then I don't know what is

You're Unreasonable, and I honestly am too outraged to point out the swiss chesse holes in the rest of your post!

Twistedspoon · Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:32 am

my last scum can be quilford then. His reads are an absolute joke. He clearly hasn't read the thread at all after voting SH (the obvtown), defending his buddy BV to the point where it's an utter lie and using absolute nonsense to justify his the other half of his reads before saying I can't analyse

and that should suit the critics of the 'all scum on wagon' idea

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1194 (isolation #82) » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:44 pm

VOTE: BV

If I'm correct time is running out

he was on the NS wagon and his odd entrance onto it I have highlighted. Furthermore I've now seen he had every motive to kill [J] as J said he was suspicious of him numerous times

It all adds up with BV scum.
Let's get this done

Princess quil can replace out if he wants. Maybe his rep will be able to see that when a player declares suspicions of another player 3 times that gives the other player a motive to kill that player.

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1195 (isolation #83) » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:46 pm

In post 1178, ScreamingHawk wrote:
In post 1176, Twistedspoon wrote:my last scum can be quilford then. His reads are an absolute joke. He clearly hasn't read the thread at all after voting SH (the obvtown), defending his buddy BV to the point where it's an utter lie and using absolute nonsense to justify his the other half of his reads before saying I can't analyse

and that should suit the critics of the 'all scum on wagon' idea

I like this post.
Anyone
against
the Quil lynch at this point? If so why so? And who would you prefer? I'd like to see our potential targets for the day narrowed down.

we're lynching BV today. Quilford was off of the wagon so we're certainly not lynching him today anyways. The probability of hitting scum on the wagon is far higher.

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1196 (isolation #84) » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:59 pm

deadline is 3 days away

BV is the only lynch we can/should agree on

he had every motive to kill [J], (the only player who was truly suspicious of him) and his entrance onto the NS wagon was poor since he gave no reasons at the time.

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1198 (isolation #85) » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:05 pm

no, there is no reason for SK to be scum; he always plays like this. ALWAYS

everything he has done other than be on the wagon is null

BV is the most viable wagon. There is far more support for him I believe anyways.

I can see the NS lynch coming again Amrun, me telling you guys that SK's town as there's no reason to see him not and you lynching him regardless again.

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1200 (isolation #86) » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:09 pm

In post 1199, Amrun wrote:
Honestly, I have a relative townread on SK, but it's not strong

ಠ_ಠ

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1203 (isolation #87) » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:12 pm

I am slighlty interested though in why you choose to sheep equinox.

I find it very odd that you're persuaded to wagon a townread of yours due to a case made my equinox which doesn't exist (due to a broken link)

In post 1172, Equinox wrote:
Okay. Here's why SleepyKrew is scum.

equinox never actually stated why he found SK the lynch of the day iirc

only this post with the link to a case that doesn't work

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1204 (isolation #88) » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:12 pm

I am slighlty interested though in why you choose to sheep equinox.

I find it very odd that you're persuaded to wagon a townread of yours due to a case made my equinox which doesn't exist (due to a broken link)

In post 1172, Equinox wrote:
Okay. Here's why SleepyKrew is scum.

equinox never actually stated why he found SK the lynch of the day iirc

only this post with the link to a case that doesn't work

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1205 (isolation #89) » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:12 pm

In post 1202, Amrun wrote:How about this... if you move back to flp, I will too.

I guess, but i don't think he's going to be lynched today

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1207 (isolation #90) » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:17 pm

and I really believe in the BV lynch

so where is her case anyways?

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1216 (isolation #91) » Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:46 am

In post 1209, Quilford wrote:
Twisted link me to games where you've suggested lynching off a town wagon before and I'll join you on fatlikepig or SK.

i haven't played mafia before this in a while so i can't remember any specific instances

In post 1046, Quilford wrote:VOTE: bvoigt

More later.

not long ago you posted this. explanation

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1222 (isolation #92) » Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:16 am

well I could role with fat if I had to. prefer BV though

In post 1217, Fruit Basket wrote:
ts: thoughts on amrun's latest votes. also what do you think of the other 2 wagons (jerrobo and flp?)

I don't think Sk is the best vote. He's in the lower half of my townreads.

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1233 (isolation #93) » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:50 am

Amrun, would a BV lynch be better or worse than a NL?

Twistedspoon · Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:39 am

perhaps you can use your alphabet soup to explain what you mean by 'her NS interactions'
although her push on you is slightly odd, but so is equinox's anyways

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1269 (isolation #95) » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:05 pm

@BV: your two red quotes don't hold water. the first could apply to half the playerlist at thyat time and the second is no reason at all that "a post gives you bad vibes" that's really no excuse at all. what does that even mean?

still find your entrance onto the wagon incredibly suspect

In post 1268, Equinox wrote:
In post 1203, Twistedspoon wrote:I find it very odd that you're persuaded to wagon a townread of yours due to a case made my equinox which doesn't exist (due to a broken link)

Link isn't broken; that was deliberate.

then where is it and how does it show a case on SK?

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1283 (isolation #96) » Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:42 am

In post 1282, Amrun wrote:That is the crux with sk for me too. His scum team makes No sense and when I pointed it out I thought he would fix it bit he hasn't. I trqd him again and my townread on him, which was already weakened, is now gone.

I think he is just doing anything to get me mislynched and is coasting on that.

half the players are trying to get you myslynched amrun

and how does a scumteam with Sk work anyways?

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1284 (isolation #97) » Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:44 am

I am very confident BV is how to proceed

his entrance onto he wagon was still awful

the distancing is very clear

and he had every motive to kill [J]

how can a townread remain?

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1293 (isolation #98) » Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:42 am

In post 1285, SleepyKrew wrote:
TS is scum because of incessant defense of NS and Amrun

both I have explained throughly to explain my thoughts

it's not like they were unreasonable and if you had listened to me you yourslef wouldn't have gone on to lynch NS

In post 1290, ScreamingHawk wrote:
Like Pidgy said re BV being an easy lynch, if he flips town I'd suggest we look at the drivers of this wagon.

how are you suggesting BV is an easy lynch? if scum wanted to push an easy lynch then quilford, jerrobo, Amrun and SK will be where they have done so

In post 1292, SleepyKrew wrote:That entire post is fence.
PEDIT: pigdey's that is

at least it's genuine

Twistedspoon · Post Post #1294 (isolation #99) » Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:43 am

actually, you might be right SK

pidgey can be looked at if BV flips scum but we need you to help us do that

even you agree he's scum so do your duty here

Twistedspoon · Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:11 am

In post 1295, SleepyKrew wrote:
Look TS. You used meta to defend NS, while meta was my ATTACK. So yeah, your arguments were pretty unreeasonable to me.

so by that logic your arguments should have been unreasonable to me too. And it looks like my meta worked anyways

In post 1295, SleepyKrew wrote:And your Amrun defense is unreasonable too, but looks like nobody cares.

another time perhaps, but it isn't

In post 1295, SleepyKrew wrote:
I thought NS was scum. I think Amrun is scum. Are these derelictions of duty? Does TS know all?
What made you change your mind about pigdey so quickly?
Why are you telling me to act upon a scumread that you were trying to discredit earlier?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: bvoigt

no I don't know all, but I like to think I'm getting there
because I tried to read from your PoV. I still think he's town for know though. If BV flips town then he looks near conf. town

Twistedspoon · Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:54 am

In post 1326, bvoigt wrote:
A lack of content is a scumtell for NS. He is more helpful as town than he is as scum.

evidently this is wrong

In post 1328, bvoigt wrote:To be perfectly honest, I'm not as convinced about my scumreads as I sometimes am. But here they are, starting with the strongest read:

jerobbo- for his change in style from caution to overzealousness.

Twistedspoon- for C_P's play mainly, but also in the way he's pushed my case. He's ignored towntells (such as the [J] kill) and misconstrued reasonable responses (such as my reasons for voting NS).

Quilford- for his change from voting me to having me as a townread.

not seeing SK in this list. Are you only voting him for pure self-preservation :/
it'd work I guess should SK flip town so you can keep your hands clean

and it's not my fault your NS wagoning was still incredibly bad.

Twistedspoon · Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:54 am

I'm not twisting anything, I'm just considering the possibilities that you wouldn't accept were you mafiosi

and I'm sure we all 'know' we're town here.

Twistedspoon · Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:21 am

iirc you said a BV lynch would be better than a NL Amrun

so lets get it done. SK isn't going today, and even if he was a BV flip reveals much about him

Twistedspoon · Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:43 am

if you manage to derail this wagon, FB and BV does turn out to be scum then I'm PL'ing you in our next game

Twistedspoon · Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:21 am

In post 1338, SleepyKrew wrote:
If bvoigt flips scum, TS is most likely town.
Yay.

I thought a minute ago you said I was bussing BV?

Twistedspoon · Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:34 am

In post 1342, SleepyKrew wrote:
In post 1340, Twistedspoon wrote:
In post 1338, SleepyKrew wrote:
If bvoigt flips scum, TS is most likely town.
Yay.

I thought a minute ago you said I was bussing BV?

That was before I got suspicious of pigdey.
Honestly, you say you're reading the thread...

that's quite the leap

because you got suspicious of 1 player the idea of me bussing has completely vanished

Twistedspoon · Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:18 am

i think the scumteam is SK, fat and BV but I'm not completely certain at all.

Twistedspoon · Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:56 pm

I think if BV flips town then we can say SK is almost conf. scum

Furthermore I'm sure we can combine our two wagon lists and see the players who would have been common on both myslynches to nail the (or at least one) scum

if BV flips scum then we can combine those who refused this wagon with those who were on the NS wagon to reinforce our reads (I'll be looking at fat in that case)

Twistedspoon · Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:24 am

I had a huge post prepared before I realised I was dead >_>

don't you hate it when that happens :p

/bah

gl town