Open 588 Pick Your Poison -- Game Over
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Riabi
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Riabi Goon
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In post 30, SIR CYANIDE wrote:
In post 24, deathfisaro wrote:Okay someone who is not Drezi, Victor, or croboss give me a good town reason to build a half lynch wagon on the first page.
I can see how scum can benefit from such actionsbut hard to find a reason for me join in.
How can scum possibly benefit from it? Serious question.
Scum benefit if the wagon is on a townie. Because wagoning/potentially lynching a townie is obviously good for scum.-
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Riabi Goon
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Yes, but, early on in the game, when we don't have a lot to go on, shouldn't people be pressuring the easy reads to what comes of them?
I don't like this post, I really don't like this post. Someone who has played as many games as you have House should know this, so why try to dissuade Drezi here?
VOTE: House-
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Riabi Goon
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I don't ever assume that someone is an idiot. My point is that putting pressure on someone early does not necessarily mean they are scum. But, when we are in the early game and we don't have a lot to go on, our best bet is to pressure anything that looks remotely scummy, and see how everyone reacts to said pressure. What else is there to do at this point in the game?-
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Riabi Goon
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To me it feels like House is trying to talk Drezi out of voting for deathfisario. While I don't necessarily buy Drezi's case in 51, I also don't feel like there's any reason to say "nope, you're wrong, and you should change your vote" which is what it feels like House is saying.-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 61, VictorDeAngelo wrote:@Riabi- What's your current read on Defisaro?
What's your current read on Drezi?
Drezi is pretty null right now. I mean, he's only made three posts, and only one post of any substance.
Deathfisario I'd say probably leans town.-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 64, Count Dooku wrote:
So you disagree with Drezi, but you don't like that House disagrees with him too. Interesting.
Not quite... I disagree with Drezi's read, yes. My issue with House isn't that he disagrees with Drezi. It's the way he's doing it that bothers me. It would have been different if House had said "I think you should vote for xxx, because xxx is more scummy". Or, "I think you're wrong because death has done these townie things." But instead, he just tried to drop what appeared to be some bullshit reasoning to dissuade Drezi.-
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Riabi Goon
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Riabi Goon
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Ok, I'm largely going to ignore the entire IC debate, it's been discussed ad nauseum, and I'm pretty sure there's nothing more to say about it. At least right now.
Much more recently, post 232 really bothers me comments like "I'm bored now" don't sit well with me. This game is supposed to be fun, if you're bored, why not replace out? Same thing goes with actually reading the game (and this applies to croboss as well), why bother playing if you aren't going to well... actually play?
My vote stays where it is right now, because I've not seen anything I found necessarily town from House. That said, House does make a good point in 233. FOS on Victor because I agree with House.
I'm curious about what people think of Lalendra's play. Specifically Dooku, House and NJAC. I know she states that it's common for her posts to contain a lot of WIFOM, but, am I the only one who sees this as scummy?-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 235, House wrote:
Let me give you an inside track.
You're wrong about me. I'm not wrong about Victor.
Vote him instead.
I gotta be honest, this doesn't really make me feel any better about you. Now it feels like you're trying to jump up and down, wave your arms around and scream "LOOK! SEE! I'M TOWN!!" If you were confident in your town status, it seems odd that you would be so explicit about it, especially this early.-
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Riabi Goon
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Riabi Goon
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You read the post, I know this because you commented on it. What I asked was:
In post 234, Riabi wrote:
I'm curious about what people think of Lalendra's play. Specifically Dooku, House and NJAC. I know she states that it's common for her posts to contain a lot of WIFOM, but, am I the only one who sees this as scummy?-
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Riabi Goon
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Is this an admission of scumminess?-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 251, House wrote:
This post reads like scum, btw.
If Riabi was town, he'd suspect if I was admitting to being scum. But he knows I'm not scum, so he's asking if I'm admitting to being scummy.
VOTE: Riabi
Wait... what? I *DO* think you're scum, that's why I'm voting you.
To answer Cynide's post, my reasons for the above are that in post 52, I felt like he was trying to talk Drezi out of voting for deathfisario. That feels like buddying.
Now, more recently, 235 is just odd. As I said, it feels like he's trying to convince everyone that he's town, and it seem odd that someone who actually *IS* town would feel the need to do that.
Then his OMGUS vote in 251 sort of seals the deal for me.-
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Riabi Goon
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No, I don't feel the need to convince people I'm town. I simply scumhunt, and I'll defend myself if someone calls me out on what they perceive to be scummy behavior, but I'm not going to claim town, not this early. Why should someone need to this early? Most of the people in this game ARE town. And, buddying and agreeing/disagreeing with someone are not the same thing. My problem with House's behavior at that point was that he was calling Drezi out for doing exactly what we're supposed to be doing early in the game, and for seemingly no reason. Just "hey, that's a bad read". But, with as little go on as we had at that point, pressure is important, and reactions to it are what we base reads off of. House's reaction to my pressure has only solidified my read of him.
As for your read on croboss. Yeah, he looks scummy, I'll admit, but I'm not convinced your case against him is any stronger than my case against House is. I can see croboss' behavior as being just a lazy town player.-
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Riabi Goon
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So, then I used it correctly.
In post 270, Count Dooku wrote:In post 269, NJAC wrote:@Riabi: Why did you ask about Lalendra, specifically to House, Dooku and me. What's your follow up after our answers?
@Riabi Also, why didn't you answer it before? NJAC has already asked it...
I didn't answer it before because I wanted to wait for everyone to answer. As for why I asked about Lalendra, because her playstyle confuses me, and I wanted a few more opinions on it. As for why I asked the three of you... well, I chose house because I wanted to know if he would say anything useful, and I chose the other two of you mostly at random.
As for my followup, mostly that House's answer is as useless as his scumhunting is in this game.-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 299, pisskop wrote:
What did you mean when you said this? If you were going to be translated for somebody who had never played mafia before, what would you say
Is my meaning so hard to understand? I'm asking him if he's admitting to being scum.-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 303, House wrote:
No you're not. You're asking if I'm admitting to being scummy.
Duh, of course I am. Doesn't make me scum.
No, I was asking you if you were admitting to being scum. But, for the sake of argument, why would someone who is town be scummy? Wouldn't that be playing against one's win condition?-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 311, VictorDeAngelo wrote:
So you have seen nothing good from House, but he does make good points. Mainly points about people who agree with you about House being scum. Do think about your posts before you write then, or just throw any old thoughts down and hope they don't contradict themselves?
He made one good point, IMO. As they say, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
VictorDeAngelo wrote:
How about you..... you know what, you don't deserve any sort of witty retort. So how about you just fuck off and die. That work for you?
Damn dude, what the hell is that reaction for? Cynide is right, no one is forcing you to play this game.-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 455, acryon wrote:
Obviously "lurking" is bad for town, but I don't think that's what he was doing. Going beyond that is kind of a grey area, but I am skeptical of anyone who looked at the information available for him and decided he was definitely lurking.
It would seem intuitive that scum have a higher level of lurking than town, but I have no hard evidence for that. That said, without going into detail for fear of talking about other games, I completely agree with acryon here.
VOTE: cyanide-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 459, Count Dooku wrote:Nearly all of his posts were scummy AND then he lurked, and avoided specifically this game. But people don't understand this..
Treading very carefully here. But, to anyone who thinks he specifically avoided this game, I suggest you look very carefully at things like timestamps. I don't think he was avoiding this game at all.
@Dukoo, for the record, I agree with people who claim your 354 is suspect. Whether you meant it that way or not, your post came across as applying at least MOSTLY to Rach.-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 466, Count Dooku wrote:In post 460, Riabi wrote:@Dukoo, for the record, I agree with people who claim your 354 is suspect. Whether you meant it that way or not, your post came across as applying at least MOSTLY to Rach.
33% Rach 33% deathfisaro 33% croboss
Perhaps that's how you meant it. But my point, which has been made by others, and that appears to be going over your head is that the timing of your post, and the fact that you quoted Rach in your most makes itseemlike you were talking largely about her. Only you know for sure if that is the truth or not. But, nothing can change how some of the rest of us perceived your post at the time we saw it.-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 469, Count Dooku wrote:In post 468, Riabi wrote:In post 466, Count Dooku wrote:In post 460, Riabi wrote:@Dukoo, for the record, I agree with people who claim your 354 is suspect. Whether you meant it that way or not, your post came across as applying at least MOSTLY to Rach.
33% Rach 33% deathfisaro 33% croboss
Perhaps that's how you meant it. But my point, which has been made by others, and that appears to be going over your head is that the timing of your post, and the fact that you quoted Rach in your most makes itseemlike you were talking largely about her. Only you know for sure if that is the truth or not. But, nothing can change howperceived your post at the time we saw it.some of the rest of us
It is not true that the rest of you perceived like that. For example Drezi and pisskop (and I think SC doesn't have a problem with it either) understood what I meant to say. Post 374 is pretty much describes what I wanted to say - yeah, it looks like Drezi can word it better than me.
Do you even read? I bolded in red above what I said... SOME OF THE REST OF US. Not everyone. Your defensiveness on this issue is really suspect.-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 473, Count Dooku wrote:
Oh, well, I didn't notice that part, sorry... it is late here, and I am mad because I hate repeating the same things again and again.
EBWOP
I think it's possible that you're mad because someone called you on your scum slip.-
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Riabi Goon
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Riabi Goon
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In post 477, Count Dooku wrote:
What the hell? You want to start this stupid conversation again? What's the matter with you guys? Are you high?
I'm not trying to start a conversation. I made a suggestion as to why you were angry. You continuing to be so defensive like this only makes you look more and more scummy to me.-
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Riabi
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Riabi Goon
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In post 488, Count Dooku wrote:As you can see there are 8 questions from me only on this page. Riabi ignored all of them.
Hmmm, ok, let's examine.
This was answered in the following post.
In post 477, Count Dooku wrote:
What the hell? You want to start this stupid conversation again? What's the matter with you guys? Are you high?
So, the first two were also answered in the following post. The second two (I'm assuming) were rhetorical. If they weren't, then they are ridiculous, and not worthy of answer.
Is this an actual question?
In post 483, Count Dooku wrote:What? Pointing out the fact that there are no actual reasons is defensive?
Based on context, these appear to be directed at acryon and not myself. But please correct me if I'm wrong.
So, now that you've misrepped me, do you have any more unanswered questions for me?-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 492, Drezi wrote:
In post 474, Riabi wrote:I think it's possible that you're mad because someone called you on your scum slip.
I mean that's quite a reach really.
This whole case revolves around his intentions behind that post about catch-ups, and how he lost his temper trying to explain it over and over, since everyone seems to think it's super scummy or even a scumslip.
Maybe it's a reach maybe not. When I typed that, I would have maybe bought it was a reach. I mostly said that to see how he'd react. His reaction to it does not help is town-case IMO.
In post 492, Drezi wrote:
Also what he said about catch up posts is something I lost a game to once, when everyone went crazy and unvoted the wagon I wanted to get lynched, because of the omg so-town catchup posts after a replace on the slot, so yeah I can see town intentions aswell behind that post.
I take no issue with him saying what he said. I agree that catch-up posts can be made town-y looking pretty easily. My issue is with his timing, then moreso with is reaction when pressured about it.-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 494, Drezi wrote:What is your issue with the timing?
I didn't like that he's warning us about Rach's (or anyone else's) potential catch up before the post is even there.
A reasoned argument would have made me more likely to think he's town. Instead, he seems to just be getting angrier and angrier. His reaction felt to me as if when I suggested his post was a scum slip that I was right.-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 531, acryon wrote:
In post 527, VictorDeAngelo wrote:Motivation. Scum will usually have an agenda with all their posts. Bad!town posts will look scummy but won't have any actual scum motivation behind them.
This is the perfect summary of croboss up to this point IMO.
Which is? Are you saying that croboss' posts had motivation?-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 538, Count Dooku wrote:In post 495, Riabi wrote:In post 494, Drezi wrote:What is your issue with the timing?
I didn't like that he's warning us about Rach's (or anyone else's) potential catch up before the post is even there.
I don't agree with you. Saying that catch up posts are easier to make look towny after someone made a catch up and people called that towny is scummy, and not what I did.
So, you don't agree with me, you've said this before. What is your point in responding to my answer to someone else's question? This started when I said I agreed with others. You've stated your disagreement with us in the past. Do you have new content?
In post 538, Count Dooku wrote:
A reasoned argument would have made me more likely to think he's town. Instead, he seems to just be getting angrier and angrier. His reaction felt to me as if when I suggested his post was a scum slip that I was right.
Tons of posts have been made by me containing reasoned arguments, before I got angry
Why get angry at all if you aren't feeling threatened by being called out? If you go back through our interactions, you'll see that I never asked you to restate your position. All I did was say "btw, I agree with some of the others about you", then you went off. There was no reason to do that, you could have ignored it and moved on. To me, it seems like you brought out your same old tired arguments against me because you REALLY didn't want me/us to think you were scum. Incidentally, you commenting on my response to Drezi's question above only solidifies my point here.-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 546, Count Dooku wrote:In post 544, Riabi wrote:Why get angry at all if you aren't feeling threatened by being called out?
Because this game supposed to be entertaining. When people ask you the same stupid questions, even when you answered them, it is not fun anymore.
But, I didn't ASK you a question when this started. All I did was say "hey, I agree." You could have just left it alone and ignored it. In fact, here is my exact quote:
In post 460, Riabi wrote:
@Dukoo, for the record, I agree with people who claim your 354 is suspect. Whether you meant it that way or not, your post came across as applying at least MOSTLY to Rach.
If you really wanted to stop talking about this, why did you respond to that at all? Why didn't you just leave it alone?-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 551, Count Dooku wrote:
What I noticed in my previous games, is that if you do not clarify yourself, people will think that you are not able to do it, because you are scum. If you want, I will not react to anything you said about me, unless that is a question.
I never said that's what I want, in fact, what I want is irrelevant. All I'm saying is that when you get angry like this under pressure, it looks scummy. And when you continue to respond to off-handed comments, and you misrep those who are pressuring you, it looks scummy. To be clear, I'm not voting you for saying that Rach's catchup post might look towny. I'm voting you for your reaction to me and others when that issue came up.-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 559, SIR CYANIDE wrote:Dooku makes a good point btw which is also why I originally stopped playing on this site. "Be the best you can be by being the least you can be" reigns supreme here and there's a shitfuckton of tolerance for lurkers.
I don't necessarily disagree. But, since lurking is not alignment indicative, a Lynch-All-Lurkers policy gives scum an inherent advantage. So, what do you do about them?
Count Dooku wrote:Meh, that wouldn't be fair with the town.
So
@Mod I would like to replace out.
Really? One could argue that it's not really fair to your team if you replace out and make someone have to come in and catch up as well.-
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Riabi Goon
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Not to get into a debate about this, but...
In post 1, Nobody Special wrote:Rules:
5)is my color. Do not use it, under penalty of Impersonating The Mod (which is modkillable; don't make me do it).Bolded Blue-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 571, Riabi wrote:Not to get into a debate about this, but...
In post 1, Nobody Special wrote:Rules:
5)is my color. Do not use it, under penalty of Impersonating The Mod (which is modkillable; don't make me do it).Bolded Blue
Sorry for the repeat here. Like the one time I DON'T do a preview before a post, it bites me in the ass. :p-
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Riabi Goon
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Riabi Goon
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In post 669, House wrote:
So, not even a claim of r/l interfering? Just an admission that you have basically been avoiding posting?
FoS Riabi
Not avoiding it. Just a matter of I was doing other things, and this site sort of just didn't cross my mind.-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 692, SIR CYANIDE wrote:Is there any way I can convince anyone on the dooku wagon to jump on the croboss (metalcyanide) wagon? I'm just not really feeling dooku.
Sure, if you can convince me that that slot is scummier than the Dukoo slot... But so far, it's not even really that close.-
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Riabi Goon
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Riabi
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Riabi Goon
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Riabi Goon
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Hey, sorry. Work is crazy right now.
So, in my last post, I meant to vote for ika, I honestly forgot that votes don't carry over from one day to the next, I seem to get lynched or NKd on D1 a lot. FTR, I think that the ika slot was scummy before, and the hammer doesn't give me any less reason to believe that.
As for Nacho's argument, I agree that a counter-wagon and further discussion is best. While it seems apparent to me that ika should die, doing so now isn't prudent. That said I totally disagree here:
In post 904, Nachomamma8 wrote:"Pay no attention to me guys, I'm just an idiot!"
Drezi, do you truly believe that's a defense scum would come up with?
I know you addressed that question to Drezi, but, yes, I do think scum might do something like that. In fact, House said he HAD done that just three posts prior to the above.
In post 905, pisskop wrote:The problem I have is he hasn't come up with anything yet.
I agree with Nacho here again. This is a problem. We're coming up on nearly 40 pages and there isn't anything you can point to as scummy behavior?
As for the NK discussion. I know I'm not super experienced, but I've never seen case where there is a lot of fruitful discussion that comes out of trying to figure out why someone was killed at night. In my experience, it always leads to useless WIFOM.-
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Riabi Goon
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Why Nacho? I'm not sure if I agree or not.
VOTE: ika-
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Riabi Goon
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Why wouldn't I be? And why is my reasoning not obvious?
I thought Dooku was scummy. I thought Dooku's replace-out was scummy. I think the D1 hammer was scummy, and I think the D2 hammer is scummy. I've thought that slot was scummy from the get-go, I still do, and to be completely honest, your defense of that slot is confusing to me.
P-edit:
Nachomamma8 wrote:I haven't read a single Dooku post.
This might explain a bit why you are so willing to defend that slot, but, why wouldn't you at least give a game you replace into at least a cursory read?-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 1063, Nachomamma8 wrote:I would be pretty inclined to vote Ika right now if I didn't think he had a good possibility of being the vig. I don't really know who in their right mind doesn't shoot Ika after yesterday, meaning the him = vig possibility is more likely than it should be.
While I get this, this leads to the question, why would a vig quick-hammer two people then, knowing that we're in MyLo if he's wrong, still take a shot after?-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 1068, Drezi wrote:Riabi: WHO ARE SCUM WITH IKA?
I can't say for certain, of course, but Nacho and AM are certainly near the top of my list of possible scumbuddies.-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 1071, Drezi wrote:
So TTH is trying to bus ika right now when scum needs a single mislynch to win, and had been trying to bus him most of D1. That's quite likely I agree. Nope.
I'm sorry, maybe my brain isn't working today, but I can't parse this post. Can you elaborate please?-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 1075, Nachomamma8 wrote:In post 1069, Riabi wrote:In post 1068, Drezi wrote:Riabi: WHO ARE SCUM WITH IKA?
I can't say for certain, of course, but Nacho and AM are certainly near the top of my list of possible scumbuddies.
Why?
As I said, your defense of the ika slot is incomprehensible to me. That is enough to put you on my list.-
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Riabi Goon
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Why it exists. To me, the slot is clearly scummy, and you are defending it vociferously.-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 1084, Riabi wrote:
Why it exists. To me, the slot is clearly scummy, and you are defending it vociferously.
Also, the fact that you've not bothered to read D1 at this point bothers me. Why wouldn't you at least give it a cursory glance? We had a long night phase.-
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Riabi Goon
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Ok, I think all this talk of ika being the vig is going to lose the game for town. So, I'm just going to come out with it... I'm the Vig. I killed pisskop last night, and for that, I'm sorry. I overthought my kill. My thinking was that I've been the most vocal about getting the dukoo/ika slot killed, if I shoot them, it will be easy to figure out it's me. But based on his D2 interactions with ika, I was sure he was scum (so much for being sure). In retrospect, I think him saying that he thought I was scum made me suspect him too much. Then, I never considered that my decision would make ika look like the vig (which I agree now that it does).
I'm sorry for messing that shot up so terribly. I know I really put us in a tight spot. But, I feel like we're going to be in even a tighter slot if people keep thinking that ika is the vig.-
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Riabi Goon
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Ok, I think all this talk of ika being the vig is going to lose the game for town. So, I'm just going to come out with it... I'm the Vig. I killed pisskop last night, and for that, I'm sorry. I overthought my kill. My thinking was that I've been the most vocal about getting the dukoo/ika slot killed, if Ilynchthem(ika), it will be easy to figure out it's me. But based on his(pisskiop's)D2 interactions with ika, I was sure he was scum (so much for being sure). In retrospect, I think him(pisskop)saying that he thought I was scum made me suspect him too much. Then, I never considered that my decision would make ika look like the vig (which I agree now that it does).
I'm sorry for messing that shot up so terribly. I know I really put us in a tight spot. But, I feel like we're going to be in even a tighter slot if people keep thinking that ika is the vig.
EBWOP for clarity.-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 1092, TellTaleHeart wrote:(That's not a counterclaim, I was flicking through the game this morning and I thought Riabi was the vig and was going to say something about it.)
I'm curious what led you to belive that?-
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Riabi Goon
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Riabi Goon
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In post 1097, Drezi wrote:In post 1090, Riabi wrote:if I lynch them (ika), it will be easy to figure out it's me.
What do you mean here?
I mean that since I've been the loudest, most consistent voice saying "Lynch the dukoo/ika slot", then it would be easier to point to me as the vig had I used my shot on him.-
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Riabi Goon
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In post 1099, Drezi wrote:I get that, even though I don't agree since both me and Sakura suggested that ika is vigged, so it could have been anyone.
I wondered about the "if I lynch them" part specifically. you corrected it from "shoot"
That was just a typo.-
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Riabi Goon
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Riabi Goon
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- Posts: 930
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- Location: NC, USA
In post 1110, House wrote:In post 1109, Drezi wrote:what do you think about ika being scum?
Waiting for a case that doesn't revolve around him quickhammering.
That's not a scumtell for ika. That's an ikatell.
Well, since ika clearly isn't saying much, we need to look at other players in that slot. A quick iso of you shows that you voted for a lot of people in D1, but only two people managed to get your vote twice... pisskop and Dukoo. It looks like you thought there was a decent chance that Dukoo was scum back in D1, so, has something changed your mind?
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