Open 634: Sharing is Caring (Game Over)

[Aneninen]

VOTE: Wgeurts

because of the cheapest and laziest RVS ever and

Spoiler:

I told you this has been the laziest one ever!

[Aneninen]

I'll catch up later.
Busy right now.

[Aneninen]

Mobilepost.
The good news are: I've already caught the whole scumteam.
The bad news are: all the six members of it.

[Aneninen]

Quickthoughts.

Wgeurts. Most posts about theoretical stuffs instead of scumhunting.

Bladeworks. Inorganic Page1. Appeasing playstyle. His whole interaction sheme with Wgeurts.

Drmyshottyizsik. Getting involved in something irrelevant too early. "Caught for a bad reason" thing.

Kuroi. Something's not right here. I can't put my finger on it.

Nothing scummy stands out from the others yet.

[Aneninen]

Wgeurts, Persivul: okay.
At least one less thing to worry about right now.

[Aneninen]

Details.

Drmyshottizsick

– Very little content and the half of it is about that VI question. Null-scum.

Kuroi

– Can you show me a finished scumgame of yours? My read depends on that.

Maxous

– I don't understand what others can see here. He's done nothing particularly scummy so far, apart from his reaction for TexCat's 73 (which, actually might have come from a newer-town too). His 133 looks town. Lean town.

Persivul

– Very little content, nothing scummy. Null-town.

Clumsy

– Even if his slow-start may have been because of IRL things, he looks like a lurk-scum. Partly gut, partly MissMarple read, partly his vote for Maxous, which tells me he's going after the low-hanging fruit. Lean scum.

Wgeurts

– Not easy to tell, but his readlist in 111 will be okay. For now. Null-town.

Bladeworks

– Terrible start, cheeky-appeasing gamestyle, some speculation, sheeping vote and WTFs like his 124. Probably scum.

Alexcellent

– Nothing particularly scummy. Little content but he seems to show real interest in scumhunting. Null-town.

Aneninen

– Nullcontent, lazylurker, annoying in general. Probably SK.

TexCat

– 73 was terrible. Apart from that, not much. She tends to be mislynched on Day1, therefore I'd be hesitant to vote her Today. Null (?)

SirCakez

– Not much to say. Null.

KainThraddash

– Hard to decide, but gut-lean-town.

Masquerade

– Very little content, his latest was sort of okay. Null-town.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Blacleworks

[Aneninen]

Preview Edit-Aneninen: Sure. I have two scum games on MS:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=65032 - A Song of Ice And Fire Mafia
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=65526 - Pokemon Episode 2 Mafia

Thanks, but that didn't help me much.
Something is there in your posts that shouldn't be there and I don't know what it is. I hoped checking your scumgames could help but not.
I don't know what to think.

[Aneninen]

I don't have time for a full catchup now so I'm only answering Clumsy.

I checked only the

posting style

of Kuroi in those games, not the content itself. I mean, the length of his posts, the sheer amount of them, the voting habits, etc. Sometimes these are very different when a player is town and when he's scum. I can't tell too much more about this topic right now because of ongoing games.

It's not too reliable to meta someone in this way, but sometimes it helps and it gives enough information for getting an early-Day1 read. I wouldn't use this kind of quick-meta for eg. Day3, though.

[Aneninen]

We can also vote clumsy if anyone's up for that. Today I'll explain both once I'm free.

Why?
I don't think he's scum. Eg 148 looks like a townpost.

Blade, 152. I've never townread you. This:

" purposely made myself low hanging fruit because scum wasn't being easy enough for me to read."

is a terrible thing to do as town and I don't think you haven't known it.

We can also vote clumsy if anyone's up for that.

uhh no?
why on earth why would you vote him?

Why are there scumreads on Maxous again?

[Aneninen]

^^
That.

[Aneninen]

Quick catch-up.

Masquerade, 169. Take your time. I'm all ears.

TexCat, 171. I don't know what to think. First this post looked town, but reading it again it looked empty.

Drmyshotwhatever, 172. This post may be important later. I mean, whether his gameplay matches the things written there or not.

Blade's 174 is simply WTF. What can be odd about that vote at all?

Maxous, 177. I don't think Wguerts is a priority now.

Clumsy reminds me of someone and I don't know whom, but this one is that player's townplay.

[Aneninen]

I don't have much to say.
I'm already voting for Blade and I can't see any reason for changing that.

Wgeurts can be sorted out later.

[Aneninen]

I've got no time to play now.
I'm still content with that wagon.

[Aneninen]

Mobilepost.
Let's see whether there's a vounterclaim.

As for the usage.
Either NoKill or he should shoot a conflicted player.
No individual action Blade, please! The title of The Worst Vig ever was taken ages ago, okay? ^_^

[Aneninen]

Oh forgot this
UNVOTE:

[Aneninen]

JailKeeper idea.
In my opinion, whoever the JK is (do not CLAIM!), should toss a coin, 50% to protect Blade, 50% to do nothing.
At least, this will wifomize the kill for the scums, there will be no "safekill" for them.
Moreover, the cop definitely need to investigate someone.

[Aneninen]

Opinions about the idea above?

Later I'll re-check everyone.

[Aneninen]

I think it would be best not to answer anenien's question.
Unless it is only about my role. Since the role can not be you these questions are very safe to answer.

Okay. I might be an idiot.

Why do I get the feeling you're just flying low under the radar?

You have my meta.
Your feeling is wrong.

I'm getting a scum vibe from you. FYI.

Who's not scumread by you?

[Aneninen]

Another readlist.

Drmyshottizsick

– Still not too much to read. More about the VI question and an excuse for not posting. Lean scum.

Kuroi

– Later posts are better. I can see a town mindset behind these posts. Even if he seems to have too many scumreads. Or I missed something. (Post-edit: got it. Three then.) Lean town.

Maxous

– Content-drop, but I still can't see too many scummy things. We need more content. Lean town.

Persivul

– Conflicted. His 237 and later posts rub me in a wrong way. Either he's scum or Wgeurts, but not both. One of them is pigeon pooping about those Night Action suggestions and right now I don't see which one of them. Null-scum. (?)

Clumsy

– Big change. Basically, everything since his 148 has been obv-townish. Probably town.

Wgeurts

– Another conflicted slot. I don't know whether his push which resulted Blade's claim was genuine. As for his Night Action suggestions, it's the sames as I posted about Persivul. Null-Scum. (?)

Bladeworks

– Unless there's a counterclaim, we should consider him town.

Alexcellent

– Little content but he seemed to show real interest in scumhunting... that was my last read. But since then? Nothing. Null.

Aneninen

– He's not flying under the radar. He actually ruins the radar and airstrikes the battlefield with beheaded barbie dolls. Divided by null.

TexCat

– Matches her town-meta I know. But still too little content. Null-town.

SirCakez

– His later posts look town-ish. But we need more content. Lean town.

KainThraddash

– No change. Gut-lean-town.

Masquerade

– Little content, some mid-posts were okay, but since those... basically nullposts. I don't like this tendency. Null-scum.


________

The basic problem is that the content amount is horribly unbalanced.
Wgeurts alone has 57 posts, some of these are walls.
The next two players (Kuroi and Blade) have 33 and 29; everyone else less then 20 and some of those are one-liners.

[Aneninen]

Just a quick thing before going to work.

I don't think Wgeurts should be lynched Today: he's clearly the one who needs to be Cop-investigated.
He's posting the most, therefore, he has the biggest impact to the game. If he's town, he'll be a great asset for us later and we shouldn't ignore this fact. If he's scum, he'll go down Tomorrow, after the investigation.

Opinions?

[Aneninen]

Anen, I'm not really liking how much talking you're doing about PR actions. Talking about it too much at this point helps scum a lot. By saying this, you're setting up the Mafia Framer to land a hit. You're repeatedly trying to lead bad plays here. FOS.

Mobilepost.
I forgot about the Framer.
Sorry.

[Aneninen]

Quickpost.
F-ck this shyt!
Haven't I told you that Texcat is a Day1 mislynch magnet?!
As far as I can remember, whenever she was lynched on Day1, there was a town loss later!

And I f-cking don't care how bad I look by posting this. I don't think she's scum, period. If she happens to be one, you can try to lynch me Tomorrow. Fair trade, I suppose, isn't it?

[Aneninen]

Welcome.
Let me post something both terrible and useless.

This is happening so.

[Aneninen]

You're seeing the game in which my cat died, my daughter had surgery, and I've been working 12 hour days all since the game started.

oooh and ultimatum, however I've been busy with work and my wife being 9 months pregnant, I will do my best to get a wall post up today

I wish better things and all the best for you two, respectively.

And I have no real reason, fortunately, for being shyt.

[Aneninen]

I seriously doubt Persivul would AtE in that way as scum.
I hope I was right about TexCat, especially after derailing her wagon so blatantly. It's weird that noone has pointed it out.

Here's what I see on my wagon:

Kuroi

voted me cause he didn't my reaction to his L-3 RVS questions.

Maxous

followed along because he thought Kuroi was scum hunting and that his tunnel of the L-3 RVS was good.

Persivul

voted because he liked this wagon so far and vibes.

KT

voted.

Alex

voted because I unvoted my RVS, I asked about our X number of powers, and I didn't like Persivul's intent to hammer on someone he thought was town. This only looks better because at least there were feeble reasons there and Alex unvoted when he realized I might be hammered.

Masquerade

voted. And evidently thinks he can make every single one of my posts look scummy? No mention of L-1 with this vote.

Maybe Masquerade?
Drmyshottyizsik?
Or Wgeurts?

Or him?

VOTE: Alexcellent

I may be useless, yeah. But what can we see in his ISO? Useless but he definitely wants to see useful. We've forgotten his very first post. And the TexCat-vote? Calling out Masquerade for the L–1 vote while being the L–2? I've seen scum doing the very same...
So let's see where it goes.

[Aneninen]

Let me post something both terrible and useless.

Sure. Why should this game be different from any other?

Give me time and I'll solve the game. Even if everyone's dead by that time. At least I'm not the Vig to make everything worse for town.

[Aneninen]

I know what you all need!

Spoiler:

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

[Aneninen]

More content later. Sorry.

[Aneninen]

VOTE: Wgeurts

Mobilepost.
Don't take it personally, Wgeurts, but enough outta you.
You're speculating, survivalistic, and that we shouldn't lynch the most active player part??? Pigeon poop!

[Aneninen]

Also, suggesting policy lynching the Vig Tomorrow? Dafuq.

[Aneninen]

Here are some things I really didn't like.

If you kill me tonight you're facing a policy lynch tomorrow, can I get agreement on this from others? This is called leashing.

With no Counterclaim we should consider Blade a conf-town and never lynch him.

BW, what is the importance of a town player being alive in mafia?
THE TOWN NEEDS TO BE ALIVE TO WIN!
And if you shoot the player making the most content and being the most productive you're a fool.

No. Townies need their FACTION to win. At all costs and your own death is a reasonable price in many games. And you know that, Wgeurts.
Also, being the most productive player is NOT an alignment tell. You know this very well too.

Also BW if you shoot me, we policy lynch you and then the town loses you are solely responsible. If you want to win don't be an idiot.

Sheer AtE.

Everything I've or anyone has said is speculation as we have no hard evidence.

Exaggreation or what's that long word. I always Foxylove that one. ^_^

If I get lynched today all those that are town should definitely take a look at those resisting the wagon on persivul in exchange for various other counter-wagons one of which being me. I've explained all my thoughts a lot so those will be out there as well. BW will hopefully also knock-off his ego a but when he realises he's been wrong all Day 1, maybe then people can prevent him from being dead-weight.

Just saying. And if Persivul gets lynched and flips scum,

I'll be among those who'll get likely lynched next.

I'll be most likely lynched. Let's put it in this way: it's a 1 scum for 1 town exchange, which is good for town.

THAT's the difference between my attitude and yours.

Anen, make a case explaining why not wanting to die, preventing an unpredictable player from screwing up, and posting thoughts about the game is scummy. As you seem to be claiming they are.

Up there.

As for persivul, he's not town and if he is he's a VI.

More AtE.
This gameplay is not the town-Wgeurts I know.

I just don't see gurts as scum, he has been the most pro town player in the game.

And this came from the wrong slot.

Honestly this comes across as town v town to me more than anything, I'm not really comfortable with a geurts or persivul lynch.
I want to hear from Masquerade and KT's slot more than anything before the day ends

Whom do you want to lynch then?
How about Drmyshottizsik?

[Aneninen]

A Shotty lynch is good though

A Shotty lynch is good though

Why?

A shotty lynch is an awful compromise shying away from what's actually important right now.

VOTE: drmyshottyizsik
VOTE: drmyshottyizsik
VOTE: drmyshottyizsik
VOTE: drmyshottyizsik
VOTE: drmyshottyizsik
VOTE: drmyshottyizsik
VOTE: drmyshottyizsik
VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

[Aneninen]

Wguerts is scum too, FYI. Most probably the Mafia Doc.

[Aneninen]

Hold it...because he's all concerned about the vig shot, but can't doc himself?

Ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding... BANANAPHONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Clotildize: Persivul

[Aneninen]

From now on, your name's Clotilde until the end of the Day.

[Aneninen]

God damn Anen I though you were an Idiot. I am so sorry for thinking bad thought and wishing that a flock of scary pigeons would make you have a bad dream(but somehow your signature leads me to believe that this wouldn't bother you that much anyhow lol) Hmmm... what could this mean?

I don't get this at all.
Neither the part about my signature nor the "what could this mean".
(FYI, I'm not dealing nightmares. I think I'd be able to, but I've never tried it so far. However, I'm quite successful at

stopping

nightmares sent by others.)

[Aneninen]

We're getting nowhere with this theoretical chat.
Your FACTION needs to win AT ALL COSTS. Even if you need to die for it. (Although I'm at the other end of the spectrum. I usually care very little about my own survival. I wish I had drawn Vanilla Townie / Mafia Goon in every single game.)

Let's move on with THIS particular game, shall we?

[Aneninen]

will you WAGON shotty with me, wgeursts?

Eh, why not?
VOTE: drmyshottyizsik
That name is going to be a pain with the automatic votecount lol

All 3 scum in one post???

What happened to KainThraddash anyway?

Not finished reading yet but this is exactly why your scum... No one even needs to explain those. Your trying to manipulate peoples opinions about you instead of just looking for scum intent. Your town posturing so hard you actually thought it was working when I first started calling you out on town posturing.

Parrotting this.

Lets lynch this and be done with it. I dont have to waste a shot shooting Kain Tepes. We lynch captain town posture. And everyone has a good day?

Or we can lynch Drmyshotizsyk and you can Vig-kill Wgeurts.

Fuck that. I don't policy lynch anyone. If I lynch BW, no matter how little sense he makes, it's because he's proven to have lied about his role. Unless that's done, I'm not voting him and neither should anyone else.

Policy lynches are bad in general, policy lynching town-PRs is horrible.

The game in your sig and your location. They give me a certain impression of you That is why I figured nightmares wouldn't bother you.

Actually I have my own defense against nightmares. And if I have questions, I can ask Freddy Krueger too. (No kidding!)
E.B.O.N.Y. is not a nightmare, but it would be bad to reveal it here what it is about. ^_^

I used to think Wgeurts was pretty comfortably town, but I don't think so anymore.

In my mind this post sounded like this: to Bus or not to Bus? That's the question.

sorry if i'm glazing over this a bit but I still prefer a lynch among {KainTepes, Texcat, Masquerade} if at all possible

Those lynches are not happening Today.

We need to start deciding who to lynch with deadline coming up.

Agreed. We should start consolidating.

I could see Anen trying to distance from Wgeurts with this. An early bus could be possible. I wouldn't totally discount him if Wgeurts is lynched and ends up scum.

Good to know that I'm everyone's scum partner.
If Persivul flips scum, I'm scum too.
If Wgeurts flips scum, I'm scum too.
Would it work for TexCat and Maxous too?

Black if you think asking someone to explain their empty claims is manipulatiom you're a lost cause.

?

________

We need to consolidate soon.
As for me, I'm willing to lynch Drmyshotizsyk because I think Wgeurts is the Mafia Doc. If the Drmyshotizsyk's not working, I'll switch back to Wgeurts. The third one might be Kuroi (because of his latests') or Masquerade, but I'm not confident on them.
TexCat would be a bad lynch and I'm not a fan of the Persivul wagon either.

[Aneninen]

OMGUS

Catching up.

[Aneninen]

After that wagon on me where no one had any reasons, I just wanted to check. There are quite a few people with fewer contributions than Shotty -- KT and Masquerade to name an easy 2. And while Persivul has contributed quite a bit lately, it really only started when he was under pressure.

It's not the amount of his content.
His early posts are empty and/or around that VI topic. His latest ones, eg. 474, the whole 489–491 interaction, are scummy. And I think he's scum with Wgeurts; Wgeurts is the Mafia Doc.

I'll re-ISO Drmyshotizsyk for more if needed.

Anen, just... damn it man. I checked out E.B.O.N.Y., and I'm hooked now. I love puzzles, and this is right up my alley. I know what I'm going to be busy with in my down time from now on.

Thanks for playing E.B.O.N.Y.
I'm working on the new levels now. ^_^

[Aneninen]

What's happening to the Deadline right now?

[Aneninen]

can nobody hammer until KT gets replaced anyway please?

shotty and pers are both fairly strong town-reads at the moment.

Why do you townread Shotty?

You're literally not scumhunting at all

Parrotting this. As for Shotty.

his #380 was antagonistic to a lot of players (even the ones he was calling town!) in his readlist which I feel like is something scum wouldn't want to do.

It's easy to do so as scum.
I often do so as scum and I'm not a genius.

So I read up on everything and I feel very comfortable voting for shotty now.

VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

This is L-1

I have mild to strong townreads on everyone on his wagon rn. I'm willing to accept Texcat could be misslynchbait so she can obvtown herself later.

unvote,

VOTE: Masquerade
yeah no. That is two poor L-1 votes - first was on Texcat.

UNVOTE:
So sorry but getting a sudden wave of hungover-ness and I really need to lie down. Should be all better tomorrow. Unvoting for now because don't want to leave L-1 if I can't be around.
@Maxous: I'll get back to you asap.

Terrible part.

We're trying to get input from other members. I'm personally hoping for the replacement to get in here and weigh in. Why are you so impatient to get it done? I would think any vote parking would be parked already, wouldn't it?

See my question in my previous post.

[Aneninen]

Mobilepost.
Hi, Chilledtea!
To make it short. Blacle claimed Vig, there have been no counterclaim.
Focus on the wagoned players.

[Aneninen]

Can't we just lynch Shotty now?

[Aneninen]

The reason I've gone silent is that you are all being completely mislead. Anyone in the bloody world could see that Shotty was a mislynch-compromise. The fact everyone went silent and things went stale is already a pretty good indicator of this. What do we gain from this lynch? Absolutely nothing besides the town hopefully opening their eyes and realising that they need to sort out the real question such as Persivul ect.

You should have posted something instead of waiting until a wagon which you knew it was wrong reaches lynch.
I've never denied that I derailed the TexCat-wagon for the same reason.

This post, alone, is enough for a scumread on you, Wgeurts.

[Aneninen]

I haven'T read anything because I don't have time right now.
Are we CC-ing a JK?
I'm not JK.

Reading later, hopefully today.

[Aneninen]

Read the thread.

Here's my first thought.
Neither the JK nor the Vig should do anything Tonight. We have one single Night Action left; let the Cop do their job.
By doing so, we may have 5 conf-town player for Tomorrow if the Cop finds two Town. If that happens the game gets broken.

[Aneninen]

I meant

*I've read the thread.

[Aneninen]

Mobilepost.
I still think Wgeurts is scum.
His Twilight post looks fake knowing the flip. Also, anyone can examine the difference between his reactions to the shotty wagon and my one to the Texcat wagon.
As far as I remember he told it was the same.
I think he was hesitant to take the risk to derail the shottx wagon actively.

VOTE: Wgeurts

[Aneninen]

Persivul. Let me think. As for your latest.

[Aneninen]

On what, ChilledTea?
I've just woken up.

[Aneninen]

Let's see.
Here's a quicklist.

ChilledTea. – I wouldn't rule him out. Away from the Shotty-wagon. His posts are, generally speaking, "going with the flow". There are no reasons backing his reads.

Kuroi. – I don't like the way he wants to widen our lynch-pool. Away from the Shotty-wagon, on the Persivul and TexCat wagons. Could be scum indeed.

TexCat. – Her gameplay matches the town-meta I know (although I haven't seen her scumgame yet). But, being on Blade, Persivul and Masquerade while away from Shotty is concerning. Because of her latest vote I don't think both Kuroi and TexCat are scum.

SirCakez. – I liked his early-Day2 readlist. Not too much content, but there was something (I can't put my finger on it, though) in his scumplay I saw before that I can't see here.

Clumsy. – In theory, I can bring up a couple of things against him. Away from Shotty, 650 (voting for Wgeurts while pointing out his V/LA; could be a kind of bussing?), speculative late-posts. Still, I'm conflicted. We should not forget eg. 647. If ChilledTea's scum, Clumsy can't be. 652–653 are to remember, too. Either he's scum and doing it in a similar way I usually do, or he's town who's prone to get ignored.

Persivul. – I don't think he's scum, because he was the counter for Shotty. A Framer is worth more for the scums than any of the other two PRs, I suppose. They could have turn the things against Persivul instead of Shotty.

Blade, Masquerade. – There have been no CCs, so I consider them town.

Maxous. – I can see no problems with his recent posts, but we need more posts.

Wgeurts. – I've already expressed my thoughts briefly. I was scumreading him Yesterday and I still do so now.

________

TL;DR.

Obviously not lynching these: Blade, Masquerade.

Unwilling to lynch these: SirCakez, Persivul, Maxous

If I must: ChilledTea, TexCat, Clumsy

Willing to lynch these: Kuroi, Wgeurts

[Aneninen]

The "If I must" list contains the names whom I'd vote for if we were near Deadline and there were no wagons on any of my scumreads.

[Aneninen]

You're right, it's not a strong thing in your case.
I wouldn't rule you out as scum, though.

[Aneninen]

Blade, you shouldn't shoot.
Getting a Cop Result is much more important.

[Aneninen]

Mod, you needn't get a replacement.

We're lynching Wgeurts now.

He was and has been active elsewhere in the forum while was and has been doing nothing here.
In addition, THIS request has only shown up in this particular game.
Reason: HERE (I bet this tell exists in different forms and phrasings, but this is my definition.)

[Aneninen]

Nnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Wgeurts Today, Kuroi Tomorrow.

[Aneninen]

That's not the only thing because of which I scumread Wgeurts. (And I did not lie. I checked the "Recent Posts" section, and because of the Site Rules I'm not talking about this any further.)

[Aneninen]

I have service for a little bit. I think I know what's going on. If so... That's brilliant. Don't push the subject any more. My number 1 lynch is still Wgeurts I think.

Clumsy is obv-town. Good to know.

[Aneninen]

It's a pity that we don't seem to be lynching Wgeurts Today.

Intent to hammer Kuroi

[Aneninen]

I'm town
And I honestly am disgusted you think I'd lie about my real life.

I didn't think so and sorry if I offended you.
I'd been scumreading you before that replacement request (and I wouldn't have considered it a strong tell if I hadn't).

[Aneninen]

Okay, I've made a mistake. I know. I've said I'm sorry.
But there were five others voting for Wgeurts...

[Aneninen]

Reading soon.

First we need to examine whether TexCat left some hints for us.
(I was locked out of Day3, by the way, I was away from the forum, sorry.)

[Aneninen]

Let me think.

TexCat seems to have investigated ChilledTea, because of 737.

And I know I was responsible for lynching Wgeurts. Sorry about that.

But I'll try to do some VCA next.

[Aneninen]

I'm considering KainTraddash/ChilledTea and Blade/Ranger town, because of TexCat's hint and the lack of the PR-counterclaim. I won't green my own name.

Official Vote Count

BlacleWorks

(6):

Alexcellent

,

wgeurts

, Aneninen,

KainTepes

, SirCakez,

texcat

(L-1)

texcat

(3):

KuroiXHF

, Maxous, Persivul

wgeurts

(1):

BlacleWorks

Maxous

(1): Clumsy

KainTepes

(1):

drmyshottyizsik

Not Voting

(1):

Masquerade

Weird. If there was a scum on the Blade-wagon it must have been SirCakez, but it's also possible that all of them were away and hoping to hammer Blade – or town credit for a late-VCA???

FoS names:

SirCakez (and Aneninen, lol)

_____

Official Vote Count

texcat

(6):

KuroiXHF

, Maxous, Persivul,

KainTepes

,

Alexcellent

,

Masquerade

L-1

wgeurts

(2):

BlacleWorks

, Clumsy

Aneninen

(1):

drmyshottyizsik

Persivul

(1):

texcat

drmyshottyizsik

(1): SirCakez

Not Voting

(2): Aneninen,

wgeurts

That wagon came quick indeed.
Maxous and Persivul had been parking there before the wagon gained momentum. SirCakez jumped on Shotty.

FoS names:

Maxous, Persivul

_____

Official Vote Count

drmyshottyizsik

(5): SirCakez, Aneninen, Persivul,

Alexcellent

,

BlacleWorks

Persivul

(4):

texcat

,

wgeurts

,

drmyshottyizsik

,

KuroiXHF

wgeurts

(2): Clumsy, Maxous

texcat

(1):

KainTepes

Not Voting

(1):

Masquerade

That Persivul-wagon was already there (with the same names) before this VC.
The big question is: why didn't scums push that one further? Nevertheless, I don't think scums pushed the Shotty-wagon in a situation like this. That wouldn't have been a good strategy on Day1.
And there are those off-names...

FoS names:

Clumsy, Maxous

________

Official Vote Count

drmyshottyizsik

(7): SirCakez, Aneninen, Persivul,

Alexcellent

,

BlacleWorks

,

Masquerade

, Maxous (

Lynch!

)

Persivul

(3):

wgeurts

,

drmyshottyizsik

,

KuroiXHF

wgeurts

(1): Clumsy

Masquerade

(1):

texcat

texcat

(1):

chilledtea

Not Voting

(0):

None.

This is good. There are three un-confirmed names at the beginning of the Shotty-wagon. I doubt there would have been a Bus there. (Although, there may be a small chance that Persivul is scum too and scums wanted to keep him alive instead of Shotty...?) The Maxous-hammer is something which might have come from a scum to gain town-cred. Clumsy was away.

FoS Names:

Clumsy, Maxous, ?Persivul

________

FoS List:
Maxous: 3
Clumsy: 2
Persivul: 1+
SirCakez: 1
Aneninen: 1

Going on soon.

[Aneninen]

Day2 is harder, because of all those bad wagons.

Official Vote Count

Masquerade

(4):

chilledtea

, SirCakez, Persivul,

BlacleWorks

wgeurts

(1): Clumsy

Not Voting

(6):

wgeurts

, Maxous,

Masquerade

,

KuroiXHF

, Aneninen,

texcat

Official Vote Count

wgeurts

(3): Clumsy, Persivul, Aneninen

KuroiXHF

(3): Maxous, SirCakez,

BlacleWorks

Persivul

(1):

chilledtea

Not Voting

(4):

Masquerade

,

KuroiXHF

,

wgeurts

,

texcat

Official Vote Count

wgeurts

(6): Clumsy, Persivul, Aneninen, Maxous, SirCakez,

chilledtea

LYNCH

KuroiXHF

(3):

BlacleWorks

,

texcat

,

Masquerade

Not Voting

(2):

KuroiXHF

,

wgeurts

That quick-wagon on Masquerade may or may not have included scums (maybe one?), but it seems, both scums ended up at the Wgeurts-wagon. Scums, for some reason, don't like to jump on a town-wagon with little "time lag", so, one of them must be in the early section, whereas the other one in the late section.
Note that Maxous and SirCakez changed wagon "together" and I doubt both of them are scum, because of that. (Also, in that situation I was pushing the Wgeurts-wagon so hard that it would have been unnecessary for BOTH scums jumping there assuming none of them had been there before. Can you follow me?)

TL;DR: This Day tells us that ONE scum is in the Clumsy/Persivul pair, ONE is in the Maxous/SirCakez pair.

________

Official Vote Count

KuroiXHF

(5):

texcat

, SirCakez, Clumsy, Maxous,

BlacleWorks

(

LYNCH

)

texcat

(1):

KuroiXHF

Not Voting

(3): Aneninen, Persivul,

chilledtea

This, in a paradox way, makes Persivul (and me) look bad.
Okay, Kuroi was an obvious idea for lynch, I still doubt, though, that both scums would have jumped there SO FAST.
A difference between Persivul and me that I was "locked out" of Day3 whereas he wasn't. (Although had I been here I would have voted for Kuroi too, I think.)

________

TL;DR
Adding the info from the two posts, one scum is in each pair:
Clumsy/Persivul
Maxous/SirCakez

Because of Day3, Persivul looks almost as scummy as Clumsy, but, as for the other pair, Maxous is much scummier than SirCakez.
I would lynch Maxous Today.

[Aneninen]

I want to see the opinions about my VCA, including everyone.

[Aneninen]

even apart from the result crumb, I would highly doubt that the scum-team is Clumsy & chilledtea.
Which means somebody threw Shotty under a bus big time.
Maybe even both of the buddies.

Why are you ruling out Clumsy?
Oh, Shotty was under a bus? Yesterday's news.

I could see Persivul as a busser on Shotty. He only really started pressuring Shotty after he came under a lot of pressure on himself.
Maybe Max/Persivul?

Why are you ruling out Clumsy?

So, in short, under the assumption that Persivul is scum (unproven), I could see a scum team of Shotty, Pers, and Cakez. I think I'll do more of these with assumptions of different people being scum, it helps me draw associatives this way.

The assumption would be okay if the conclusion weren't that weird.
And this doesn't match, not even remotely, your later posts.
Firstly, your 934 is about Maxous. You try to associate him with Shotty, which seems to be a "just in case" move if both of you are scum.

ChilledTea, 938. (Not quoting because of the length of the post.)
Yeah, the more I'm thinking about it the surer I am that Blade was actually a lucky-and-scumfree wagon.
It's also possible that Shotty was expendable, because Persivul has a better PR. But this may be a logic assumed behind eg. Maxous's play too.
SirCakez is unlikely, I agree.
What do you think of my other idea? One in Clumsy/Persivul, one in Maxous/SirCakez?

while i was just 20 posts, in realtime the timer went down from 3 days to dayswith nobody doing anything and I realised we were just wasting time so it was time to get something moving.

What 3 days? There was 20 hours between those two posts of yours.

The game was stalled and nothing was happening. The only reason to wait was for your catch-up and when you said you weren't doing it there was literally no reason left to prolong the day.

A palpable lie!
I've just checked those pages and there were a lot of things happening. And the Deadline was frozen, too!

What are your other thoughts, because at least with my slot, this is wrong. Obviously anyone would say that, but given that you replaced into the last town PR, you're dying tonight I would think. What other teams could you see? What about Persivul? Why is no one talking about Anen or Cakez?

Back to Clumsy.
You're trying to widen the lynch-pool, which, again, looks like an attempt to save both of your and Maxous's aß.
We've been talking a lot about Persivul and we've examined SirCakez too, to conclude that he's likely town. If you don't like that there's no talk about me, why don't you launch it?

I don't think they do. At least, in the sample PMs, they don't have it listed.

And this, too! Don't think they do? If you were interested in the answer, you could ask this, for example:

Mod, does the Mafia have Daytalk?

Also, something to keep in mind for everyone: While it's highly likely that Chilled is town, don't 100% rule out the possibility. A small slip like this could cost the game. I'm of the impression that Chilled is town based on that post by the cop, but it could be a misunderstanding. Don't just 100% dismiss it.

And another attempt to put someone back into the lynch pool.

TL;DR: It must be Clusmy and Maxous.
I'm happy with lynching Maxous first, because of those pairs I was posting about. (See above in this post too; SirCakez is much less likely scum as Persivul, so Maxous seems to be a safer lynch.)

[Aneninen]

Sorry everyone, been really busy, hopefully will have time again on Wed. Looks like Anen is town and on top of this game.

But Ranger and ChilledTea are the players who can be trusted. Remember. ^_^

Anen I'm not ruling him out, I just saw the Max/Persivul pairing more likely then, for example, Clumsy/Persivul or Clumsy/Max from the VCA you did.

Okay.

Guys, that's not my final conclusion. That's 1 theory while I looked at 1 person while assuming Pers was scum. I'm going through everyone one at a time, and seeing which one fits best. I'm not done yet. I moved onto Max and found some things I wanted cleared up to make a theory on him, and to see if it fit better or worse than this one. Then I was going to move onto Anen, etc. Ran out of time, going back to it after I get some time after work.

So, in short, under the assumption that Persivul is scum (unproven), I could see a scum team of Shotty, Pers, and Cakez.

I think I'll do more of these with assumptions of different people being scum, it helps me draw associatives this way.

Hmmmmm...
I still think your recents were scummy, but this reasoning is something I saw from townies too before.

i'll explain in depth later but i'm thinking Aneninen is scum here.

I don't like how he is analysing the game at all.

Not only was this post empty as a treasury having checked by a politician native to our country, but it was terrible for another reason, too.
If you

really

thought I were scum, you should have voted for me. And as town, you might have added some reasoning, too...
But this, without a vote sounds like testing the waters whether a wagon on me would gain momentum.

VOTE: Maxous

L–1 if I can remember well.

[Aneninen]

Sorry everyone, been really busy, hopefully will have time again on Wed. Looks like Anen is town and on top of this game.

But Ranger and ChilledTea are the players who can be trusted. Remember. ^_^

I want to know why you said this.

Ranger = conf-town (there has never been a counterclaim)
ChilledTea = semi-conf-town (unless TexCat was playing very badly, she crumbed you as innocent)
Aneninen = town-looking player without any evidence about his alignment.

It's that easy.

The first thing that triggers me is this post. The bolded.
He's saying it's obvious that Shotty was hard-bussed.
Ok, but he thinks the scum-team is me and Clumsy the two players remaining that town-read Shotty.
So Anen is of the opinion that Shotty wasn't bussed but he kinda off-hand dismisses my suggestion.

What are you talking about? Clumsy was the only one away from the Shotty-wagon,

you hammered Shotty

. You're misrepresenting me intentionally.

Because we haven't talked Persivul or SC *that* much and I don't see how even entertaining the possibility of discussing them is auto discredit as "widening the lynch pool".
Anen thinks shotty being bussed is "yesterday's news", he agrees Shotty was possibly expendable but he doesn't seem to want to talk about the people in the possible bussing position.

Another misrepresentation. We

have

talked about Persivul and SirCakez. SirCakez is generally townread (which does not mean that we'd never consider him as scum), Persivul has been constantly asked for more content. We

are

talking about everyone, yet Clumsy seems to draw the attention away from himself and you (!) all the time.

based on #925 and #926, Anen is basing his reads almost purely on Vote Count Analysis.

I know VCA is not an all-powerful tool.
But in this particular game, if we check the names on the wagons, it tells us quite much. Also, my reads are affected by the reactions players make too. Should you read my posts cerfully, you may notice it.

but anyway, Anen is now in a position where is pushing my lynch because I am in a 1 vs 1 with SC. Not because i'm scummier than pers or clumsy, because i'm less town than SC.

I want to see the opinions about my VCA, including everyone.

So, I've never told that I'm essentially right. I launched a discussion about my VCA and my pairing ideas, which lead to the two names I'd eagerly lynch. Noone need agree with me.

Anen jumps on me as soon as I suggest talking about the possibility that he is scum.

This

alone

tells us that you're either not reading the game or misrepresenting me intentionally. When I voted for you, I had been scumreading you for a long time. Your empty post about me (including the fact that there wasn't a vote) is one of the things affected my reads – besides the VCA.

These are good points Max. I will have to look into more of this when I get home. In the meantime, Chilled, what do you think of possible teams? And we need to hear from Persivul.

Why am I not suprised that Clumsy agreed with Maxous instantly?

I think a big reason that I'm so paranoid about some people, particularly Cakes, is because they've recieved 0 pressure all game.

Whut?
SirCakez can be scum because

we

have never pressurized him?
That strawberry cake must taste badly because I've never tried it.

Well, I suppose Max was on the wagon. At the end as the hammer, which still looks weird.

But what associatives are tying the two of us together?

That underlined part sounds like "oh shyt, both of us are getting caught because of some silly reasons".

[Aneninen]

Also, Clumsy:

Getting to reading the thread now, but Maxous's posts have been bad and Clumsy's look like a Maxous partner.

Hey-hey-hey...

I know I should have something to say.
But.
I don't.

Here's the idea. What do you think of my VCA? Are there errors sitting in it?

Honestly haven't decided, but ultimately, I don't think I should announce my decision anyway.

Agreed. You shouldn't.
However, according to my calculations it would be better not to shoot. If we mislynch a mis-shot could make us lose the game. If we lynch scum, we'll have two Days for lynching the other one if you don't shoot.

[Aneninen]

^^
A typical "scum caught for the wrong reason" post.

[Aneninen]

Absolutely not sure.
(1) he was Shotty's counter but that's not a strong tell (we've talked about this before)
(2) Clumsy looks scummier (see my pair-ideas; however, there were some recent posts from Clumsy that made me think)

[Aneninen]

I don't think I earned a lot of town credit because of being on the Shotty-wagon.
Even if it happened, it flew into void when I was tunnelling Wgeurts hard.
(As if I ever had cared about town credit. Regardless of alignment.)

[Aneninen]

And now we're waiting for Persivul, I guess.

[Aneninen]

MyLo

!!!

I'm almost sure it must be Persivul, but I'll re-examine everything again.
I assume it's not ChilledTea. If he's the last scum, we're f-cked, period.

[Aneninen]

OFF

Who wants new E.B.O.N.Y. Levels?
They're on!

ON

[Aneninen]

Reading soon.

[Aneninen]

(1) Re-examining the VCA

We can see that Shotty was sitting on the Persivul-wagon for a long time. I still don't know why that wagon stopped. It may have been a cross-bussing [if so, scums picked Shotty instead of Persivul because a Framer is worth less than a Rolecop?] or it may have been a real counter. SirCakez was the starter of the Shotty-wagon, on the other hand. If he's scum this was a terrible strategy – unless he was afraid of leaving the wagon. Basically, Day1 could go in either way.

Day2 still tells me that SirCakez can't be scum. (Remember the pairing I posted before.) In 735 there were two wagons and both of them were on Kuroi. By 856 both of them jumped on Wgeurts – but both of these wagons were on town! It was an unnecessary move to jump on the other wagon for

both of them

; Wgeurts would have been lynched without any of them anyway.

As for Day3, I still think Persivul looks worse. What if he was intentionally away from the Kuroi-wagon? He posted early-Day3 but did nothing afterwards. He may have done so (being absent) for town credit.

Day4's hammer from Persivul is another thing which looks scummy. At that point it was obvious that Maxous would be lynched, he may have thought being absent would look worse than hammering. I mean, Maxous was voting for me, but both SirCakez and Clumsy was not voting. If a Clumsy-wagon had been emerged he would obviously have voted for Maxous.
Also, because of no Daychat for Mafia, it's possible that Persivul wanted to end the Day before Maxous would post something silly.

________

I'm going on with some ISO-s soon.

[Aneninen]

Persivul.

Naked votes in 132 and 181.

233 is horrible:

"I thought that was implied, but FTR, intent to hammer. Personally I think the guy is town trying to play too tricksy, but at this point he's going to be a distraction for as long as he's here, and his flip will help analysis. Absent a claim he needs to go."

(About Blade) – Typical rolefishing and terrible reasoning. 237 is just as bad. Calling a Vig negative utility and persuading him NOT to shoot? WTF!

His interaction with Shotty: 247, 286. Sounds fabricated.

303, when he was asked about his vote for Texcat, he answered:

"Bad vibes and I like the wagon so far."

. Then moving to Masquerade in 341, another naked vote.

Voting for Shotty in 355 (naked, but check out the previous post too! From SirCakez!) 404 may have been coaching (knowing there's no Daychat and at that point he was voting for Shotty).

Then voting for Wgeurts in 417. Knowing Wgeurts was town, his developing scumread on Wgeurts looks artificial. In 437 he voted for KainThraddash, then back to Wgeurts in 467. (Trying to find a wagon which gains momentum?) Then back to Shotty in 500. (He called KainThraddash and Wgeurts his partners in the previous post. But still, I don't think it was necessary as scum.)

________

On Day2 he voted for Wgeurts in 637 but jumped on Masquerade in 651 (check out the reasoning there too!!!). More claim-forcing?

Back to Wgeurts in 694.

Uhhhhhhh, 710!!!

And, ChilledTea, 726 !!!!!!!!!!!!

In 851 he actually dis-credited Masquerade's thoughts. Even if those thoughts were about me, he seemed to have been right! And Persivul didn't want to stop the Wgeurts-lynch...

Day3 consists of two empty posts.

________

1000 is WTF, 1003 is about townreading me and sheeping Ranger and me.

1005 might be a "soft-case" about Maxous, 1007 is a townread on SirCakez. He may have planned framing Clumsy Today... a pity that he was Vig-Shot, lol. 1029 may confirm this. (Also, self-meta.)

1030

"Unfortunately those crumbs were obvious enough that it cost texcat her life, but yeah, at least we have one nearly conftown."

– erm, there's a Mafia Rolecop and we've talked about it somewhere. This is not the first case when he acts as if he didn't know the Setup. (There was a post about Mafia having Daychat, eg.)

1037

"Yeah, if Anen metadives me I'm confident he'll conclude I'm not scum."

– WTF.

1055 – I don't know whether there's an expression for that, something like "pedestalling"... but I don't think I'm a particularly good player. By "pedestalling" I mean the style of the post.

________

TL;DR – there are quite a lot of things telling me that Persivul is scum. But I want to ISO SirCakez too.

[Aneninen]

Post-edit.
I'm not conf-biasing. I assume a scummy motivation behind every single thing I can find one.
The same will happen as I ISO SirCakez.

[Aneninen]

SirCakez.

Empty starting posts. 55 is a vote for Shotty. Could be eh-early-weak case or a planned early-bus for town-credit?

105, 137, 140: may have come from a townie trying to move the game???

Moving for Blade in 205, and back to Shotty in 258.
Normally, I'd say it was unnecessary if SirCakez is scum... but having thought about it and this Setup actually encourages bussing. I mean, Framer may be the least useful PR out of the three scum-PRs and bussing it out will give scums additional shots for the Rolecop and the Doc. The fact that both scums seem to have been on Shotty (assuming ChilledTea is town) confirms this. So, a consistent bus might have happened for town credit...?

If something, 313–314–315 may give us a red flag. Knowing there's no Daytalk this may have been a push from SirCakez like "do something, buddy, I want to develop a better read on you"!

Then a couple of shallow interactions while the vote was still on Shotty. And to tell the truth, he never had a strong case on him. Nor any strong reads...

570 may have been an idea about building up a panic-counter:

"We have a little over a day, idk if we can get the votes for Masq."

Hmmm... 589:

"Ya Max we know Masq's voting history is terrible but no time to switch the wagon to him. Good vig shot though."

Double-hmmm...

Day1-Twilight:

"If he's actually town I'm going to be pissed because he made zero effort to scumhunt all day."

(626) – I don't know what to think. Is it genuine or fake? What do you others think?

________

662:

"Someone give intent on Masq and get a claim pls"

He was actually saying the same about Blade on Day1. (But not about Shotty!) The problem is, I don't remember him doing this as scum.

Later he was trying to get people for the Kuroi-wagon. (Knowing Wgeurts's alignment this is not scummy in itself.)

In 833 he voted for Wgeurts and yet again, that post about requesting an intent or what-s-it-called.

On the other hand, 841 looks town. Digging up a bad progression from ChilledTea, that's not what a scum would do. (?)

________

In 920 his lynch pool was Max, Chilled, Clumsy. It changed into Max/Persivul in 928. Is he bussing again? (By the way, some of the later posts would be scummy IF Clumsy had flipped scum. Weird.)

1002–1005. Persivul–SirCakez interaction. ChilledTea, what do you think of that?

His latest posts look genuine, I mean, his gameplay is the typical "I'm town, don't lynch me and let me explain why the other player is scum".

________

TL;DR. Persivul looks scummier.

________

Post-edit. Persivul, why did you pick those parts of my post?

[Aneninen]

I really don't like how Persivul keeps explaining he'd never bus. He also seems to discredit whatever SirCakez says. These are strengthtening my scumread and I'm willing to vote for him.

The main thing about him that irked me is his "anen is good player" and also the "texcat was obvious and we lost her" it doesn't seem like it would come from town, feels like fake sympathy. Need to study this more.

The first one irked me too.
As for the second one. TexCat must have died because she'd been Rolecopped before. Not because she was "obvious-something".

Didn't like anen pointing out pers's statement "vigs are negative utility" as scummy - it isn't scummy, imo it is true in many cases.

Even if a Vig hits town, by narrowing the lynch pool they can do valuable service. Right now I think this is exactly what happened. Persivul's play appears to be "off" because his planned mislynch may have been Clumsy. (And to tell the truth, were he still here, I'd vote for him. Although some of his late posts had made me think that I was wrong.)

Anen has been a strong town read because he stopped texcat lynch BUT, if he was scum, he had to do that otherwise he would have violated his meta imo. I am not sure and I need to study this.

You think that I'm better than I actually am.
To make it short: as scum I could have done zillions of easier things when the TexCat wagon emerged. Eg. admitting "something is different in her gameplay" or doing nothing at all.
The next part is against myself, I know, but I'm making it short for you: hard-derailing a wagon is not an alignment tell in my case, I'm doing it both as town and scum.

[Aneninen]

Tomorrow I'll post.

[Aneninen]

Catching-up.

This is interesting. I have objectively demonstrable meta which indicates that I'm town, but you "don't like" that I bring it up.
I have Cakez as scum by POE and I'm pointing out errors and inconsistencies in his posts, and you don't like that either. That's worse than the actual errors and inconsistencies.

Scums self-meta to prove how town they are more often than townies.
As for SirCakez my opinion will be shown below.

And I'm indeed not an excellent player. I'm scumreading you because of my intuition and I don't seem to be able to build up a case which is strong enough. Also, you act like a scum being suspected because of weak reasons. Even if you call it conf-biasing.

Also,
Happy Scumday !

Sooooo, an unrelated question to both cakes and pers. Would you guys consider yourselves good at LYLO/MYLO as town?

I wonder why you didn't ask me.

I have service for a little bit. I think I know what's going on. If so... That's brilliant. Don't push the subject any more. My number 1 lynch is still Wgeurts I think.

Clumsy is obv-town. Good to know.

Anen, I want to know why clumsy is obvtown because of this post.

Sorry, I don't remember. If I need to, I'll dig it up. There must have been something I thought at that point.

It's a pity that we don't seem to be lynching Wgeurts Today.

Intent to hammer Kuroi

I think we should just lynch wguerts.

We can sort the whole Kuroi thing out tomorrow.

Yeah, now we're gonna have to wait for a replacement and then for their catchup. We should lynch gurts today and kuroi tomorrow.

So. If cakes is not scum (imo highly unlikely), the two scum have pressed for wgeurtz in quick succession. What's convenient is the flipped scum Max is in the middle. What is amazing is that max who said he would put up a case against kuroi is now OK with wgeurtz lynch - I am thinking they didn't want a replacement to clean up the slot.
Pretty sure both scum are in these three posts. Max + ?.

At that point I had been scumreading Wgeurts for a long time. A considerable percentage of my ISO is about tunnelling Wgeurts. I know it doesn't look good (and actually it never looked good) but it's still true. Even the quote above from me shows that I posted my hammer intent only because I thought Wgeurts wouldn't get lynched.

So looking back on anen's ISO it is clear that he has, either as town or scum defended Maxous. Several times. This post is an example. Maxous was highly suspect since the beginning for me and I find it a bit strange that anen is actually asking, specifically,

why

someone was scumreading Max.

Indeed. I was misreading him for a long time. Mostly because of another game where I found him very scummy, yet he flipped town. His gameplay looked the same. It's not a surprise that in late-game former townreads get suspected, since many of the major scumreads are out by now.

*facepalm*
Anen vs Max yesterday was clearly not scum vs scum Chilled. I'm very confident Anen is town.

Posts like this make me think that SirCakez is town.
He's narrowing the lynch pool instead of widening it.

Yeah but I am not. It's best to get rid of your paranoia if you have any during MYLO/LYLO stage because a mistake means no going back.
I would still like him answering my questions.

And he's doing so when it's clear that I'm a lynch possibility. For you, it's either Persivul or me. As scum SirCakez would include me as a possibility. But he thinks Persivul's scum. Persivul's calling SirCakez scum, but I can see some "read progression" for me, which can be faked easily. Just to vote for me if it gets clear SirCakez will never be lynched. I wouldn't rule out SirCakez entirely, but he's much less scummy than Persivul. (I've seen SirCakez's scumgame before and his posts were much emptier.)
Can you follow me, ChilledTea?

Is there anything else I should answer?

[Aneninen]

I really can't see sir cakes as scum, and can't build a case on him.

Anen, the reason I didn't ask you that question was because I believe that in MYLO/LYLO one shouldn't look past anyone when trying to find out the last scum. Persivul didn't care to take a look at you, neither did sircakes. You did take a look at both of cakes and persivul, so I didn't need to ask you that.

Also at that time I was trying to imagine a scenario where you were the scum, and cakes and pers are town and I tried to see if the gamestate made sense.

Okay.

As for Maxous:
This one, ChilledTea.

[Aneninen]

However one good thing about cakes is he was the first to ask pers about max/clumsy. It is possible pers wouldn't have said anything until cakes asked him.

By good thing did you mean townie thing?
I too found it weird that Persivul hadn't posted anything about Max/Clumsy before being asked.
Persivul, why did that happen?

So, I'm scummy for...

(1) Being on both scum lynches...?
(2) ...despite provable meta that I'm against busing?
(3) Killing Alex N1 after he was hard defending me?
(4) Not being on the D3 quicklynch?

I get that my tone was not particularly townie this game, but facts need to trump tone. This is my first scumday. I haven't learned much in that time, but I have learned that when the objective facts point one direction, and my gut points another, it's usually my gut that's wrong.

(1) All of our suspects were on Shotty and Maxous would have been lynched even if you hadn't voted for him.
(2) In theory, I too against bussing but in practice I'm doing it every now and then. [I actually want to write an article which would include a lot about bussing.]
(3) That means nothing. Could have been WIFOM or the scumteam may have thought Alex was a PR. For example.
(4) I think that lynch was simply terrible, regardless of being there or not. (To tell the truth, I strongly think I would have been there if I hadn't got locked out of the Day.) We should have talked about a lot of things instead of quicklynching. For example – something against myself – someone should have asked me a couple of questions after Wgeurts's flip...

So I don't think these are strong facts.
However, I do think you focus a lot on yourself to show us how town you are instead of building cases against your suspect (who, I suppose, is SirCakez).

...

Personally, I can play as obvtown, but I don't do it as town because: as noted above, it leads to early NKs;

and, by nature I sometimes just like to post off the top of my head, which leads to some slop which isn't obvtown, but it takes too much thought to avoid it. So, I don't take NKs, but the downside is that I get in the position I'm in now - convincing people I'm town after a game that wasn't obvtown.

Yeah this was bs. Pers is VT so this makes no sense.
Although cakes day 5 hasn't been that great. Still pers is ranking higher on scum radar.

That's not a scumtell in itself. Some players are survivalistic even if they're VTs.

Because VT's don't think about their survival, at least they shouldn't. If they get taken out instead of PR, it is a worthwhile trade any day of the week. In fact, VTs are known to play as obvtown as possible.

I myself share this point of view. As VT I try to be obv-town. Or if it doesn't work out, I launch a relentless attack against my main suspect(s), fake-crumb, whatever, but my own survival is the least thing I focus on. (Actaully VT is my favourite Role, because of these.)

Here's my last game as a VT:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=65700

I've checked it.
There were shorter posts and less AtE – however, these might only show a different IRL situation.
On the other hand, you were in Pick Your Power Rap Battle too [the game I linked before] alongside with Maxous. Your townplay was very different there. And you could have told anything about it, at least after I'd mentioned it to explain my early-Maxous read. (Although I didn't remember either that you'd been there, it's hard to remember so many playerlists.)

Here's a game in which I was scum, and I was so obvtown that

a doctor protected me on the final night of the game

:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=62219

Fzzzzzzt.
That's just as far from your gameplay here as your gameplay in Rap Battle was.
Henceforth I consider your meta info null.

Going on soon.

[Aneninen]

Anyways, max was hesitant of the wagon on shotty and if I remember correctly he wanted someone else other than you lynched. Actually, he wanted me(KT) lynched (lmao). He also wanted to lynch wgeurtz, masquerade before he finally settled for shotty between you and shotty EVEN though he had you in his scum list some time back.

That's possible.

A question to everyone : are rolecop results given in PMs or in the Mafia PTs? Because if they are given in PTs this post doesn't make sense.

I think it's given in PMs, but I'm not sure.
In another game I remember as a Mafia Tracker I got my results via PM. Although it didn't mean any difference because we had Daytalk there.

Leaning strongly with regards to pers.
Reasons :

1) Max : Sudden townread of persivul. Reluctant vote on shotty. This matches with reluctant vote by pers on shotty.
2) Anen is a good player sheep.
3) Texcat was obvious cop. She actually wasn't. She was only obvious to a) Me (because I know my alignment) b) scum (because they know my alignment).

Cakes is the second option :

1) I actually want him to go ahead and find 1 game with urgh in it where he is town. Also geez if it is possible
2) Shotty's convo with cakes. I don't think shotty either voted cakes or OMGUS'd cakes for the vote or the push. He could have, after all.
3) Very little explanation for his moves. I think this is something that cakes does as town and scum probably. So it is kind of difficult to read him.
4) I want to write more here but I can't find anything.

Persivul:
(1) See above, it's possible that they wanted someone else lynched instead of Shotty or Persivul.
(2) That usually concerns me. Especially because I'm typically an average player.
(3) TexCat was never an obv-Cop.

But, I'm playing Devil's Advocate a little bit, okay?

SirCakez:
(1) I don't think that urgh is a tell at all, but I want to see his reaction to this.
(2) He could have OMGUSed. It happens every now and then that a scum going down attacks back their partner.
(3) and (4) It is difficult to read him, which is concerning. This MyLo clearly favours SirCakez, I daresay. Although scums had to Nightkill the PRs so this may not be a thing at all.

I gave you my most recent town game a little while ago. Here's my most recent scum game:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=65750

This could go either way too.
What I'm really interested in is SirCakez's opinion on this game because he was there too!

Oh I just found a game where I said urgh as town that Persivul conveniently missed
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... h#p7655582
So there ya go
Also I said it in a marathon game as town as well but Persivul admitted he wasn't counting that at least

I wanted an answer for that, I got an answer. If only I had a conclusion about this topic.

You did say lurking was a legitimate tactic and you did lurk in this game throughout day 4 where max was getting pressurized. Sure you say you were busy but scum would say that as well and we have no offensive against anyone else - by PoE too, we have to zero in on you.

Actually I'm an idiot.
I used Parallel Activity as a tell for getting Wgeurts lynched but I completely forgot to do the same in case of Persivul. (Although it happened because of RL things, I wasn't here a lot too.)
Those days took place between the 18th of April and the 23th of April, as far as I can see. Persivul's posts were indeed less frequent, still, he seemed to be active elsewhere.

Mod

, I'm talking about a finished game and this.

Okay anen, I trust you a bit after my analysis, I would like you take over from here regarding pers vs cakes. I am kind of tired. I feel like it is pers who is the scum.

I too think Persivul must be scum.
There are much fewer things against SirCakez, but I want to see something from him before voting.

Or, what do you think, Chilled? Should I vote first or should SirCakez do so?

[Aneninen]

Mobilepost.
Whether you like it or not, you're town leader now, ChilledTea, because you're the confirmed one. (Assuming we interpreted TexCat right. But we all agreed about that.)

[Aneninen]

Persivul's 1182 made me think. Although I spent less time ISO-ing SirCakez, there are indeed concerning things there.

But what really looks bad is SirCakez's answer in 1186. Firstly, he answered NOTHING when I ISO-ed him. Secondly, he broke down Persivul's posts but most of his answers lack real content. Thirdly, this may be a sign of a changing gameplay. For a while it may have looked obvious Persivul would be lynched; I was pushing Persivul, he did the same and ChilledTea was thinking whether it's Persivul or me. With ChilledTea's unvote things changed.

Another thing that bothers me is the

reason

for SirCakez's townread on me. Namely, Maxous's case on me was terrible. Indeed it was, but I've been thinking and this in itself tells

nothing

about my alignment!

can nobody hammer until KT gets replaced anyway please?
shotty and pers are both fairly strong town-reads at the moment.

Why? Shotty is strong scum for me obviously and Pers is nullish town, not very strong.

So, this is a very, very important post on day 1 and I am quoting this to study it.

Anen, I want you to look at my post 1183 and see if you can make anything of it.

There's an article on wiki (perhaps another one from Mastin) which gives the tip for scums: confuse the town and townread your partners. So, it might not be unorthodox if a scum townreads their buddies. In fact, scums may have any kind of reads on their partners.

The question is, therefore, how

organic

those reads are.

It's clear that his Shotty-read was inorganic: eg. the end of Maxous's 516 shows it.
Actually the Persivul read looks inorganic too, but in another way. In 436 Maxous posted this:

"nevermind, pers is probably just town."

– but I can't see in his post, nor in the game around where that came from.
The problem is that

all of his reads

look inorganic. For example, check how fence-sitty he was on TexCat. "Felt town", "a bit softened", "want to lynch" etc.
Fun-fact (or is it?) – he quoted SirCakez for answering all game only once.

SirCakez had been indeed scumreading Shotty at that point, but the little interaction he had had with Persivul doesn't backs that nullish town read at all.

His attitude to Wgeurts is an interesting thing, on the other hand. He was hard-towning Wgeurts, which may have been buddy-ing. Unfortunately, it's only a may. Had SirCakez gone down, Wgeurts could have been an obvious lynch, yes. But SirCakez has never exploited the situation: Wgeurts turned into a lean-scum later (or something like that, that was an untagged readlist), and he ended up being on the wagon. This progression looks organic.
(Persivul's attitude to Wgeurts is easier, they never liked each other in this game.)

[Aneninen]

Good.
Now I'm conf-town.

Can I have a little more time for reading?

[Aneninen]

I don't have time to read right now, but here's something.
Knowing that I'm not scum, would my previous interactions with help in anything?
Would it help if we passed this Day to see which one of us dies at Night? (Most probably the answer is no for this.)

[Aneninen]

Anen I didn't respond to your ISO because it was mostly commentary and not faked analysis intended to misrep like Persivul's "ISO".

Whut?!

Cakes why are you not voting pers if you are town reading anen?

Good point
VOTE: Persivul

Paranoia is shared.

My problem is. Persivul doesn't look more town than he did. SirCakez looks more scum than he did.

[Aneninen]

I know this will be weird, but

VOTE: SirCakez

THAT IS NOT MY DECISION YET, I'm still thinking about voting for Persivul.

BUT

I want to be sure that ChilledTea's not scum. If he is, we're f-cked simply wasting our time and we shouldn't do that. As he posts anything I'll unvote.

[Aneninen]

UNVOTE:

Yes, I am.

[Aneninen]

That was the point.

My logic was this:
If you should happen to be scum, we're f-cked inevitably and wasting our time because it's obvious that you'll never get lynched.
So I wanted to make it short and rule out the possibility.

Got it?

[Aneninen]

I don't have time to read the chat now, but I have a question which I've wanted to get answered for a long time and knowing that I'm town it's not dangerous to ask it anymore.

SirCakez, did you Rolecop me at Night1 because you had found my fake crumb?

I'll read the recents later tonight or tomorrow morning. (IRL times, GMT+1.)

[Aneninen]

If I have a question regarding something, I will ask it. I will have a perspective and I will go through with it. The dead thread won't be upset with me if we were to lynch the town-pers here because you were the most suspicious even in the eyes of ranger and also in anen's eyes. Its not like we lynched obvtown pers here, so you getting angry is irrelevent and it is difficult atm for me to sort whether it is genuine or an act.

That's my problem as well.
Namely, if we lynch Persivul and SirCakez gets away with it, noone will blame us. But if we lynch SirCakez and he flips town, we won't be called good players for a long time...
Still, it shouldn't affect us.

Things to ponder about.

(1) My VCA made in 925 and 926. There I said there's one scum in Maxous/SirCakez and Clumsy/Persivul. I still can't refute my analysis which might have been a factor behind Ranger's Nightkill.
ChilledTea, what do you think of that VCA? (Keep in mind there's no Daytalk, which may weaken my conclusions!)

(2) Ranger also thought SirCakez was town, and she wasn't amused of Persivul. Alexcellent was townreading Persivul. Wgeurts didn't get along with Persivul for a long time but ended up townreading him (am I right?) SirCakez was hardly mentioned (but Wgeurts townread him). Kuroi was scumreading Persivul for a long time and developed a townread on SirCakez. SirCakez was still on the Kuroi lynch.
Do these things tell us something?

Questions.

(3) Why did Mafia Nightkill Alexcellent at Night1 and Rolecop me? Did Alex look more dangerous or did he crumb something bigger?

(4) Persivul, why did you re-join the Shotty wagon in 500? If you had jumped off to vote someone else whom would you have vote for?

[Aneninen]

Also, ChilledTea, what do you think of the change in SirCakez play?

[Aneninen]

The biggest gripe I've with sir cakes is he didn't vote anyone and it definitely looked like he was waiting for L-1 on pers.

I too got paranoid because of that.

He has been just as guilty of framing persivul as persivul has been of framing cakes.

And that's another aspect of my (our) problem.
Their gameplay has become very similar to each other's now.

The biggest problem right now is I feel pers's outburst to the pressure is probably town.

I'm not sure about this.
But I definitely felt the same about his gameplay on Day1.

Cakes hasn't been under that kind of pressure yet so it is difficult to see whether he is town/scum.

But now he is and his gameplay is different than it used to be earlier.
The problem is: in another game this change didn't happen and he was scum there. Although he was never widely townread. (And I may be biased too, I was SK.)

Are you sure that you were rolecopped on n1?

Cakes said so.

I felt at the time that maybe it was some strange wifom strategy of scum to get a mislynch on masq but like who does NK just for a mislynch?

Indeed, that would have been sub-optimal. But I found nothing in Alex's ISO that told me anything.

Wgeurtz was scum reading persivul on day 1. When shotty was lynched, wgeurtz made it pretty clear that it should have been either himself or pers who got the rope.

But Persivul stayed alive and Kuroi got lynched. I didn't even have a single post on that Day so I know very little about that time.

Pretty much everyone had a townread on cakes by day 3. Who didn't have a town read? Shotty actually. Shotty said that cakes is probably scum trying to look town.

Can you recapitulate that post? 380?

"I didn't get much from him. He doesn't seem to like me, but I still not sure why exactly. He talks a lot but doesn't produce much. He almost looks like scum trying to act like town, but not sure how. I'm leaning scum based on gut."

Hmmm... his read on Maxous was quite similar, but he had a strong scum on Persivul.
Caveat: his other reads are weird, too. Check out eg. his read on me.

After analysing the VCA, I feel that it is possible that both the scum might have voted someone in succession. I think if one of the scum is widely townread then that scum is more likely to pull bold moves like this. After all we know that scum bussed their partner in position 1 or 3 on a wagon on day 1. If someone can bus their partner on position 1 on day 1 then they can definitely vote with their partner.

You might be right.
I remember Ranger agreeing with my VCA, Maxous attacking me, Persivul doing nothing... what were the others doing?

[Aneninen]

You've ninja-ed me with that vote, but no problem.

[Aneninen]

Well, let's see what they respond. There are quite a lot of things on the table now, I suppose.

[Aneninen]

It is happening soon.

[Aneninen]

This is pretty silly though. A hammer wasn't going through without both you and Anen voting. Witholding my vote just so I could hammer as scum would be pointless.

Not really, and I saw ChilledTea explaining it later.

It was sarcasm if the rolling eyes didn't make it obvious.

Still a null at best.

Cakes, do you know that persivul is scum, or do you feel that persivul is scum?

Both

At this state of the game this made no sense.
ChilledTea is not scum, nor me. So if SirCakez is town he

must

know Persivul is scum (and vice versa).

I'm aware the hammer is important lol. I'm saying it's mostly irrelevant due to the fact no lynch was going through without both of you regardless.
And it wasn't me vs Persivul solely until a day or so ago also, you two weren't 100% confirmed town until then.

I don't think NoLynch was ever considered seriously as an option.
And the lack of your vote is indeed concerning.
Persivul was examining me as a possibility and I was a real option for ChilledTea for a long time. We can't rule out that you wouldn't have turned against me if a vote for me had arrived.

Yeah but you were pretty confident of anen and I wasn't. What were you waiting for before voting? You weren't even trying to figure out anen (or me) all you did was try and figure out persivul. Your actions have been regarding persivul only so you should have either voted him or you should have been doubtful of anen.

Also that.

Because I was trying to sort out the two remaining scum rather then pressuring specific people, it's clear from my ISO that day.

Show me those posts.

Anen, I asked you a question before which you missed so I am going to ask again - Did you feel the act of wgeurtz asking for a policy lynch of the vig (if the vig targeted wgeurtz) as an indication of scum or Non-Alignment-Indicative?

I can't see why it's important, but here's my answer.
Asking for a policy lynch is simply a bad gameplay, not a scumtell.
But Wgeurts is definitely not a bad player. So, I didn't like it, but that wasn't the major thing in my scumread on him. In this particular situation, weak-scumtell, I suppose.

VOTE: Sir Cakes

Nice. Even if you guys end up blowing it, you get props for getting this far. I was telling my wife that you were playing fine for your experience, but that wasn't going to be good enough for this situation, so this is a pleasant surprise.

Ugh, I didn't like this at all.

OFF

I too asked my partner who she thought the remaining scum is.
She answered: you!
Me: no, not this time. And the others know that I'm town, too.
She: I don't care, it's you!
Me: but seriously, does your intuition tells me anything?
She: Erm... than that Chilly-Tea one.
Me: No, he can't be scum either.
She: Then it's you! I told you!
Me: ...Thanks for your help.

ON

Cakes, can you tell me who was targeted by texcat on night 2/night 3?

Now, that's something interesting.

I have no idea, other then presumably Tex checked you night 1 from the crumb clear post she made Day 2.

Good answer.

N2 must have been clumsy or anen by PoE. N3 would just be guessing.

Bad answer. If she had had a new result she would have crumbed it instead of posting a naked vote. His later post about the same topic was better.

Why not kuroi?

It's not a good strategy to check someone who would be lynched in the near future.
Getting a guilty = the Night Action is a waste, because the lynch would have happened without the investigation too.
Getting an innocent = the only way to stop a lynch is to out the PR


I too have a question, both for Persivul and SirCakez.
If you were scum, whom would you have targetted at Night1 for the Kill and why?

________

This is horrible.
SirCakez and Persivul are just mirroring each other. When Persivul's pressurized, SirCakez does almost nothing. When SirCakez gets pressurized, Persivul does almost nothing.

And there are 11 players + the Mod who already know the answer...

[Aneninen]

Taking your time to make a decision is fine, but putting someone at L-1 in mylo implies that you've made a decision, and saying that you ninja'd his vote implies that he was going to put cakez at L-1.

Wrong.
I've never said that I'd have voted for SirCakez if I hadn't been ninja-ed.
Also, by that time it had been clear for me that ChilledTea's a player who changes his thoughts whenever new information comes.

I have 180 posts and cakez has 140. I can't speak for cakez, but it seems to me that enough information is there from the course of the game, and the beginning of this day. Lack of information isn't the problem. What we do at this point when the other is "pressurized" is insignificant compared to what's already out there.

Pointing out this at a point when SirCakez seemed to be the more likely lynch is another thing I didn't like.

Already noted that in her case this is incorrect, as she didn't crumb chilled in her first post that day, and we all agree that she did crumb chilled later in the day. You have to move past the cliches and look at the individual.

Why do I feel that you're trying to manipulate me?

I think it was, there was a big discussion about who the nightkills would point to.
I was hard townreading you the whole day and you think I would have turned against you if you had gotten votes on you? Hell no.

Hmmmmmmmmm...
That would be a terrible gameplay if I were scum. And it would cost the game for the town.
But I think this answer was coming from a townie.

Quotes for Anen

Got it.
That was important.
By reading those posts something got very clear for me.
SirCakez's read progression included NO mislynch plan at all. 961 and 1034 were the most important posts. He didn't care about Clumsy's death, he simply went along following his reads.

[Aneninen]

I've made my decision.

Persivul's been trying to manipulate me and his latest posts have shown it clearly. (Eg. the fact how hard he's been trying to make me end the game with lynching SirCakez.) His gameplay is much more "gamestate-sensitive", I mean he's trying to exploit everything and turn everything on his side.
Meanwhile, SirCakez's gameplay is much slower. His reactions are silly sometimes, but still, he only follows his own "path" through the whole game. This would be terrible, really terrible if he misread players at MyLo/LyLo (or being close to it), but fortunately, in this particular game this is not possible.

VOTE: Persivul

[Aneninen]

Sigh...

1371 and 1372 were strong from Persivul, whereas 1373 is very scummy, full of misrepresentations.

We're not ending the Day without a lynch. Even if there were another Day we wouldn't be able to get any new information. The Nightkill would be pure WIFOM.

I have one less request. Persivul, SirCakez, summarize your case on each other

in one single post

.
ChilledTea, if you wish, you can do the same but that's not necessary after all.

Then the Day shall be ended.

[Aneninen]

Okay, now I have an intent to hammer.

SirCakez's clearly had time to answer ChilledTea's posts. He could have summarized his case without quoting too.

Does anyone have anything to say?

[Aneninen]

I say let us give both of them time to see how they respond. If it isn't satisfactory, we hammer.

That was our original plan, wasn't it?
I mean, after I've announced the intent, we'll wait for their response.

[Aneninen]

Coming soon.

[Aneninen]

Catching-up.

Persivul's case. 1391

1. That itself doesn't mean much. The push on Shotty could have come from a townie, too.
2. That's indeed concerning. Since he was active elsewhere (I haven't checked it) it seems he wanted to end the Day prematurely.
3. You indeed had a townread on me Yesterday, but you put me back into the lynch pool early-Today. (This could go either way, though.) The part about the needed lynches may be true.
4. Cautious play and being reactive is indeed a thing I don't like.

-That's not true. If town starts flailing around and cursing out people then they cause chaos and are inviting themselves to be mislynched. So town definitely has motivation to keep controlled.
-It is basically what you are saying though. You haven't even considered him as scum for several days.
-His interactions with Shotty were very bad. Little to no interaction, then he developed a sudden scumread on Shotty just when he became the leading wagon.
-How is being accurate in an outburst exclusive to town? Scum can describe their own play and curse at people.
-I'm not? You're the one bringing up comparisons.
-How should I know the answer to that? Ask Persivul, he's the scum.

(1) Not an alignment tell.
(2) That's not true. ChilledTea didn't rule out anyone. (Nor me, before that L–1.)
(3) Your interactions weren't better either.
(4) Makes no sence. (But maybe I missed the point here.)
(5) That's a terrible answer. For my question about roleblocking you threw a joke. Now you gave an entirely different answer, as for its style.

You're confirmation biasing by looking at everything from the perspective of Persivul town, Cakez scum. Persivul posted some seriously scummy shit trying to rush the lynch and you basically ignored it. At the least Anen saw it for what it was.

You're misrepresenting ChilledTea.
If you call that conf-bias, you should have called his early-Today conf-bias too, when he was scumreading Persivul and townreading you. And you should have told that I was conf-biasing too.

No his interactions with shotty were ok, better than yours. You actually don't need to interact with someone to have a scumread on them.

I remember thinking about that one, too. Scums tend to have a scumread on each other because of little or no reasons.

Going on soon.

[Aneninen]

1. Threw votes absolutely everywhere Day 1. This clearly looks like scum trying to push through lynches on anywhere possible.

That's not an alignment tell. I've seen plenty of townies doing the same.

Here are all of his posts that mention Shotty.

Yes, I can see the point there. Scums may have tried to save Persivul for the cost of Shotty, because a Rolecop is more useful than a Framer.

3. His entire case on me today has consisted of hypocrisy and misrep.

Your posts were exactly the same Today.

He's been trying to use the Kuroi quicklynch as a scumtell for basically the entire day.

That quicklynch is not a big tell. Indeed, he was here and did nothing, which is just as bad as a vote was on Kuroi. (Actually if I'd been here I'd have voted for Kuroi too.)

For example, he accused me of rolefishing for asking someone to give intent to hammer on Blacle, when he was the one to provide intent himself, and repeatedly mentioned "lots of one-liners" when he has experience with me and knows this is my playstyle.. It's scum just cherry picking whatever they can mold to look scummy.

I too found some of your posts rolefishing.
As for your playstyle. The change when you realized Persivul wouldn't be an obvious lynch and things could build up against you was concerning.

Persivul isn't one of those players who "loses" control as town or plays by his emotions.

My direct meta on him contradicts this.

You're acting like he is. All of your posts are shit full of it.

What an attitude change!
Since ChilledTea doesn't seem to change his vote any more, it's better to call his play bad.

I just looked at the case. The case boils down to the fact that persivul was hypocrite. He said it himself since you both played scummy.

And if it weren't so, this game would have been ended days ago.
That's the point, SirCakez!

Your reaction + shotty's reaction

+ persivul's outburst + your coasting through the whole game without explaining your reads + persivul's day 1 = my feeling that you are scum.

Maybe my memories are not that correct, but I think I'd pointed that out too.

His interactions with Shotty suck, he threw votes everywhere, he never explained his read on Shotty.

Actually there were more unexplained reads from him. Actually there were quite a lot of unexplained reads from other players too.

I think I could quote my rolecard right now and you'd still think I was scumpersivul was right, you are fucking impossible to talk to

Why do I feel that your attitude change towards ChilledTea happened because of his scumread on you?

You don't need to be stubborn about shit
Anen isn't being stubborn and he's doing vastly better scum hunting then you right now

Why do I feel that you're trying to manipulate me?

Well anen is better than me it is possible, after all he is more experienced.

I'm just an average player.

Really hate the fact that both persivul and cakez are like saying similar stuff.

Pfffffffffffffff yeah.

Cakez, can you tell me what was the purpose of saying anen is doing vastly better scumhunting?

For comparison to someone who is not being stubborn

WHUT?!
I'm one of the most tunnell-ish and one of the slowest moving players!
Everyone knows that!

________

TL;DR

Now I'm back where I started. Hooray.

I can see quite a lot of things against Persivul, yeah.

But.

I can see a "trajectory" behind Persivul's whole gameplay, which is not there in SirCakez's one.

Does anyone has anything else to say?

If not, I'll hammer SirCakez.

[Aneninen]

VOTE: SirCakez

No matter how much time I'm reading this I simply can't get anything new.

Sorry town, if we've f-cked it up.

[Aneninen]

Really?
I've been afraid that I did the wrong thing.
So, unless you're lying or ChilledTea has been trolling us for ages, this indeed must be a win!

[Aneninen]

A couple of minor things.

(1) The drastic change in SirCakez's activity when we turned against him
(2) Especially the way he started to "taunt" ChilledTea at the end of the Day
(3) You summarized your case, which looked genuine, whereas his case did not
(4) It's on the Wiki and I've experienced it before: when you're LyLo-ing with a scummy-looking player and someone who's been "flying under the radar" all the time, the latter one is more often scum
(5) His joke on the "why did you RoleCop me" (which I think did happen) compared to a later one (that "ask Persivul, he's the scum")
(6) He hadn't voted for you until it was pointed out by others.

Nothing blatantly scummy, but these things added up in my mind in the end.

+1 I don't think ChilledTea is a worse player than me. He took his decision and that made me think: what if he's right and I'm wrong?

[Aneninen]

No way I would lie just to mess with you when the game's over. Maybe cakez will confirm if he's on before mod.

Lol, I've done that before.
Once it was over after a 5-player LyLo, but I kept lying who my partner was...

[Aneninen]

Awesome gameplay at MyLo from everyone!

ChilledTea examined the game enough to find the scum and to make me rethink everything.
Persivul was fighting incredibly hard and managed to turn the tide.
And SirCakez, you were great, too! Just check out the dead thread! Almost everyone said they'd never lynch you...

Thanks for modding, Davesaz!
This Setup seems to be both well-balanced and fun, it should join the well-known Open Setups as soon as it can.

[Aneninen]

I think the biggest problem for scum was three easy mislynches (Tex, Blacle, Masq) all drew the PRs. So we were stuck killing players with, let's say, not the strongest of day play. Which left me stuck in LyLo with you three very strong town players and forced me to 1v1 Persivul which was brutal.

Indeed, you had to Nightkill players who'd have been useful mislynches at any phase.
Although I'd have never lynched TexCat, for example. I'd seen this kind of gameplay from her before this one and I was pretty sure she was town again.

We won....omg that was the hardest game ever and we won....

Definitely the hardest late-game as town ever, for me.
And indeed it was fun!

Yeah I know cakes. You played real well btw. More than the bussing it was the way you played - if it wasn't for anen playing really well as town, me getting cleared by cop and persivul trying his hardest on day 5 which he deserves the credit for, you would have won.

Yeah, the fact you'd been cleared earlier was greatly against the scumteam at MyLo.
It was lucky that I was able to conf-town myself, too.

And speaking of BW...what was with that? The guy had some knowledge of the game. Just couldn't control himself.

I don't know what sort of play he wanted to do...

Really thought scum had it in the bag with the massive bus, quicklynch on Wguerts and the horrible Blacle play.

Urgh. (Lololol!)
But seriously, I shouldn't have tunnelled Wgeurts.
Sorry again, Wgeurts, I indeed thought you were scum.
Now I've learnt even direct meta can be worth pigeon poop if it's not up-to-date at all.

At least my crumb was pretty clear.

Pretty clear.

I think you need to be a team player to be a good player. It sometimes feels like you are playing for yourself, but this is a team game.

Parrotting that!

[Aneninen]

Isn't the coding system also defeating the purposes of not having daytalk?

I don't think it would ruin the lack of Daytalk.

Firstly, as far as I know that "encoded messages are not allowed" goes for cryptography, for example, not for situations like this. After all, a badly-designed "keyword using" could lead to a caught scum too.
Secondly, that's only

one

piece of information shared in public, whereas Daytalk can be used for more powerful things, like arranging mislynchs or bussing, pointing out crumbs instantly, synchronizing quickhammers, etc.

Lastly, I think using keywords is "grey zone" at tops. I mean, if NO keyword is arranged, any result can still be crumbed. For example: "And [PlayerName] is another one who could be checked by the

Cop

" or "

V

ery impressive. but

I

don't think it's a big thing.

G

oing to work now."

[Aneninen]

Also yeah Anen, my play has changed significantly since we last played as this game showed. Meta isn't something to rely on.

Yeah. I always overrate meta, especially direct meta.

[Aneninen]

Out of interest, how often do you win lylo as town?
I can recall you doing it a lot before team mafia and wonder whether that's continued.

When I was new I lost the first I-don't-know-how-many LyLos.
Later I got more skillful, but I'm not all-powerful at all. Last month once I got framed for LyLo and lynched once I simply f-cked it up.

Diffusion of power is in signups in the Open queue if anyone's interested. Me and Ranger are already in it.

And so am I ^_^