Open 638: Friends and Enemies! (And Enemies!) - GAME OVER!

[Ozymandias]

Hai.

VOTE: karnos

I really dislike his posts, they all strikes me as too cautious.

Top class play coming from kts, not calling L-1 on page 2. Confident in the vote now.
Also kts, I was the first person to vote you. I'm not jumping on the wagon, I'm returning to it.

Wasn't it though? I hate to defend him, but you unvoted yourself, leaving 3 votes. BTD voted you, 4, then KTS voted, 5. Puts you at L-2. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I have gone over the thread twice and I don't see it adding up to you being at L-1 with KTS's vote.

Spreading misinformation looks a bit scummy, but I think it could be an honest accident.

Particularly don't like this one.

Ah OK that makes sense. I can see why the reads on KTS and Karnos.

I'll happily change my vote to KTS if that helps. I just don't want to be the jerk that pushes a lynch onto a nice townie on day 1, and I am not yet confident that KTS is scum.

Do you believe anyone on the Kts-wagon legit scumreads him?

.

KTS is one of the players I have seen before. If he wasn't, I would absolutely be scum reading him, but I know from the prior game that his town play just likes a bit scummy. That doesn't actually rule out him being scum, though, and right now I have no other real leads. I would probably be voting him if he wasn't already shouldering several votes.

And this.

Kts has 2 votes, I'd understand being careful for a derphammer but the wagon isn't even close to hammer. Seems like you're being overly careful. What exactly is the 'lead' you have on Kts? What do you think is scummy about his play so far that warrants a maybe-vote?

Mostly his early posts, for example #21 doesn't really serve much benefit, it just makes people less likely to post. Don't get me wrong, it's not a strong scum read of any sort, it's just the most I have seen so far this game. I personally think that reads on day 1 are unlikely to be accurate except through dumb luck anyway.

I guess it doesn't hurt to back up my thinking with an actual vote.
UNVOTE: dr dolittle
VOTE: Killthestory

How does the post you linked make people less likely to post?

I don't like the katsu wagon, I am town reading him based on tone right now. Most posts feel genuine, even if the content is not exactly top town read material. Will look into it later.

[Ozymandias]

Nvm.

I forgot about post 77. Still quite thought it was a reaction test.

What kind of reaction test would this be?

[Ozymandias]

Yellow as mod colour is hurting me.

[Ozymandias]

Yeah, that's a poor vote kop. His push on Joe would be a better reason

Masq's defense of Kop was a bit off.

I liked Random entrance, but both of these posts put me off.

Seem like generic statements to doubcast without actually exposing yourself. What did you not like about Masq defense?

[Ozymandias]

Nvm.

I forgot about post 77. Still quite thought it was a reaction test.

What kind of reaction test would this be?

I believe she was testing to see if someone was paying attention.

*would be

And how is paying attention indicative of anything?

[Ozymandias]

I am seeing Ranger as town. I believe she usually makes not-so-well-thought gut reads. The Kuroi read seems weird, but I don't see scum motivation behind it.

Both of these points seem null, so I am interested in knowing where the town read comes from?

Nvm.

I forgot about post 77. Still quite thought it was a reaction test.

What kind of reaction test would this be?

I believe she was testing to see if someone was paying attention.

*would be

And how is paying attention indicative of anything?

I would like this to be addressed.

[Ozymandias]

The buddying between Creature and Ranger was just so hard and came out of nowhere and it was Creature defending a post which even Ranger admitted was stupid as fuck. I suppose it's possible they're masons but I cannot possibly believe they're both VT.

Pretty sure this is town.

Or clueless scum, never played with anyone here before. But probably town.

Everyone should be voting Kasumeat for 149 btw.

Nah.

[Ozymandias]

Both of these points seem null, so I am interested in knowing where the town read comes from?

Her readlist, it looks like she's actually following her readlist, not just making noise. I am not counting the Kuroi read.

And how is paying attention indicative of anything?

It usually is. How would you see someone sheeping your readlist without noticing something?

I would think scum knows better than this.

First point makes sense.

I'm also very strongly thinking Ozymandias is Kasumeat's scumbuddy for what it's worth.

Can I be a scumbuddy to a townie?

And defending a scumbuddy in a two-man scum team is suicide.

[Ozymandias]

Ranger, do you really believe your reads?

if so, explain what about this...

The buddying between Creature and Ranger was just so hard and came out of nowhere and it was Creature defending a post which even Ranger admitted was stupid as fuck. I suppose it's possible they're masons but I cannot possibly believe they're both VT.

... would come from scum.

I agree that it was an horrible post, in general, but is it more likely to come from scum or town?

As far as I know, scum can speculate about Masons in their thread. It just confirm my read on Katsu, his posts are genuine, even if bad.

[Ozymandias]

Has anyone played with Kasu before here?

[Ozymandias]

It's my second too, I guess Ranger was right about us being scumbuddies.

I will read it later on, if I have time.

Java, since you have played with him before, what do you make of Kasu's play?

[Ozymandias]

Trying to mantain a neutral stance?

I think I made it pretty clear that I think Kasu is town. So where do you see the neutral stance?

Defending your teammate D1 is suicidal, but I guess that's difference in playstyles.

Night or day talk does not matter, scum has no reason to speculate about masons in the game thread one day into D1.

[Ozymandias]

Yeah, but that's the exception not the norm and it's not the case this game.

Night or day talk does not matter, scum has no reason to speculate about masons in the game thread one day into D1.

AH but it's different in multiball setup! Not to mention town gains nothing from speculating who the masons are; it only benefits mafia and werewolves.

How is it different in multiball?

The second part is obviously true, but the fact that it's a blatant anti-town move is what makes me think it actually comes from a VI. That Kasu's post is, at worst, NAI and, at best, worth a town read, but i am really not seeing how it warrants a scum read.

[Ozymandias]

I think I made it pretty clear that I think Kasu is town. So where do you see the neutral stance?

[Ozymandias]

The buddying between Creature and Ranger was just so hard and came out of nowhere and it was Creature defending a post which even Ranger admitted was stupid as fuck. I suppose it's possible they're masons but I cannot possibly believe they're both VT.

Pretty sure this is town.

Or clueless scum, never played with anyone here before. But probably town.

Everyone should be voting Kasumeat for 149 btw.

Nah.

I'm also very strongly thinking Ozymandias is Kasumeat's scumbuddy for what it's worth.

Can I be a scumbuddy to a townie?

Find a quote where I try to defend him, without actually defending him.

[Ozymandias]

How is it different in multiball?

The difference is that there are 3 teams of course But seriously, scum can work together at certain times, but the only way for them to communicate is by posts during the day. And if i'm not wrong you said that anti-town action can be converted to town cred?!

Then he could have simply posted it in twilight before getting hung if he was that desperate or at least he could have waited to see if the wagon on him would remain, I still don't see how this affects the interpretation of Kasu's post, honestly.

I indeed said that, yeah.

[Ozymandias]

The first was on masq's defense of kop which seemed to be jumping the gun to try and defend them on one point after a small amount of suspicion. The situation with Oz and kas is different.

I'd like to see how; they both seemed fairly similar to me. (The only difference being, I townread Kop and think Masquerade was white knighting, whereas I think both Kasumeat and Ozymandias are scum.)

Kop was only being questioned on one thing with no votes on him, there is a large possibility of kasumeat being lynched.
UNVOTE:
I'm not convinced this isn't mislynch bait.

Mod Notes:
- <3

<3 to randomidget who returned the love. He gets bolded hearts because he's special.

awwww <3

Buddying with the mod, scum confirmed. Clearly has privileges.

What made you change your mind from your first vote on Kasu to now?

[Ozymandias]

@BTD6: I checked that game, newbie 1700 right? Wow, I feel sad you had to go through that. Such a bad effort and something that barely happens. I've also seen town get frustrated enough to selfvote and I've thought about doing it once or twice as well but it's bad form to do as town. As scum as well btw, either way it's screwing over your team.

It mostly is bad regardless of alignment. However, for Town there pretty much never is any advantage. As scum, it mostly harms your faction but at least there is the hope that you are helping your partner to escape detection or make them look good or making a Townie look bad. For example, when RadiantCowbells self-voted I was not sure of his intentions but it may hae been to make me look suspicious even before the flip. Tojam2 just gave up - we had a guaranteed win anyway. Essentially, self-voting as scum (when there is another partner alive) is essentially a form of self-bussing.

I can't understand Kasumeat's motivation though as Town. Kasumeat, if you are Town, please unvote.

Self voting usually means three things:

1. Frustated town.

2. Scum faking frustated town.

3. Scum who just self hammered.

I think we are in the first situation here.

[Ozymandias]

Kill, I am interested to hear why you think Ranger is Town.

VOTE: Ranger

No point keeping my vote on Karnos, for now.

I would lynch inside [ Ranger, Creature, Karnos ], at the moment. Maybe Random, but I really liked their early posts on tone.

Town reading Kill, Kasu and Masq.

Everyone else is either null, close to it or I have to re read their posts.

Spoiler:

The first was on masq's defense of kop which seemed to be jumping the gun to try and defend them on one point after a small amount of suspicion. The situation with Oz and kas is different.

I'd like to see how; they both seemed fairly similar to me. (The only difference being, I townread Kop and think Masquerade was white knighting, whereas I think both Kasumeat and Ozymandias are scum.)

Kop was only being questioned on one thing with no votes on him, there is a large possibility of kasumeat being lynched.
UNVOTE:
I'm not convinced this isn't mislynch bait.

Mod Notes:
- <3

<3 to randomidget who returned the love. He gets bolded hearts because he's special.

awwww <3

Buddying with the mod, scum confirmed. Clearly has privileges.

What made you change your mind from your first vote on Kasu to now?

Some of his posts have definitely been scummy, so I voted him. But i'm starting to get a gut feeling this is a mislynch from his most recent posts.

Which posts did you find scummy? If not him, who would you want to switch to?

Spoiler:

In post 195, BTD6_maker wrote:
In post 185, Masquerade wrote:
@BTD6: I checked that game, newbie 1700 right? Wow, I feel sad you had to go through that. Such a bad effort and something that barely happens. I've also seen town get frustrated enough to selfvote and I've thought about doing it once or twice as well but it's bad form to do as town. As scum as well btw, either way it's screwing over your team.


It mostly is bad regardless of alignment. However, for Town there pretty much never is any advantage. As scum, it mostly harms your faction but at least there is the hope that you are helping your partner to escape detection or make them look good or making a Townie look bad. For example, when RadiantCowbells self-voted I was not sure of his intentions but it may hae been to make me look suspicious even before the flip. Tojam2 just gave up - we had a guaranteed win anyway. Essentially, self-voting as scum (when there is another partner alive) is essentially a form of self-bussing.

I can't understand Kasumeat's motivation though as Town. Kasumeat, if you are Town, please unvote.


Self voting usually means three things:

1. Frustated town.

2. Scum faking frustated town.

3. Scum who just self hammered.

I think we are in the first situation here.

If he is frustrated town, then unvoting himself will undoubtedly be beneficial to Town. This s why if he is Town he should unvote in his next post.

While I agree self voting is bad, in most situations, I really don't see the point in what you are saying. Would Kasu unvoting himself in the next post change your view on him?

[Ozymandias]

Kts has 2 votes, I'd understand being careful for a derphammer but the wagon isn't even close to hammer. Seems like you're being overly careful. What exactly is the 'lead' you have on Kts? What do you think is scummy about his play so far that warrants a maybe-vote?

Mostly his early posts, for example #21 doesn't really serve much benefit, it just makes people less likely to post. Don't get me wrong, it's not a strong scum read of any sort, it's just the most I have seen so far this game. I personally think that reads on day 1 are unlikely to be accurate except through dumb luck anyway.

I guess it doesn't hurt to back up my thinking with an actual vote.
UNVOTE: dr dolittle
VOTE: Killthestory

How does the post you linked make people less likely to post?

Can you answer this, Karnos?

.

Ozy: just to respond, even though you have already switched votes: my "careful" posting style is just how I post. Read through the start of last game if you care enough, I was accused of similiar right from the start.

I will, if I have the time. What do you think about Ranger?

[Ozymandias]

I won't be able to post much until Tuesday, sorry about this.

UNVOTE:

This makes Kasumeat look more like a genuine frustrated player who realised his mistake. I'm not saying he can't be scum, but his self-voting is no longer a strong scumtell to me.

So when he votes himself he doesn't look like a genuinely frustated player, but now that he unvoted himself he suddenly looks such? Could you explain how your opinion on Kasu changed over the time, starting from when you voted him?

Kasumeat: if you are town, please unvote. Give your top reads. If you are scum, carry on get lynched.

I've already explained my Ranger scumread, but I'll reiterate. Ranger admitted her own mistake with the read list. And while I do believe her reason she gave for why she made the mistake, I think it's a mistake that scum are more likely to make than town. Also, there's the fact that she's supposedly this savant-like scumreader and she's wrong as fuck about me but still maintains her stance. I expect better of The Legendary Ranger. The one thing that gives me a shred of doubt about her is that she might just be a spiteful and petty town like I, admittedly, have been this game too. But unlike her, I'll admit that my mistakes are a reasonable reason to vote me. I don't think the wagon against me is necessarily scum-driven.

Kop is also scummy as fuck. His entire posting history, 3 days into this game, is one RV plus one vote on me with the sole justification being that I wasn't reading carefully,

immediately after Creature just admitted that he didn't read the thread carefully.

And after that, Creature defended Kop's vote by saying that Kop had other reasons to vote for me when Kop's #104 explicitly states that it was the sole reason. If that isn't buddying, I don't know what is. This hasn't been a low-content game so the only reason to be lurking that hard is if you're scum with no pressure on you.

That's a bad reason to scum read Ranger, I really don't think it's alignment indicative in any way. He is scum because his reads are fake, not because he put the Moderator in his reads list.

I don't think I can remember a single post from Kop, will look into it when I have the time.

[Ozymandias]

Kts has 2 votes, I'd understand being careful for a derphammer but the wagon isn't even close to hammer. Seems like you're being overly careful. What exactly is the 'lead' you have on Kts? What do you think is scummy about his play so far that warrants a maybe-vote?

Mostly his early posts, for example #21 doesn't really serve much benefit, it just makes people less likely to post. Don't get me wrong, it's not a strong scum read of any sort, it's just the most I have seen so far this game. I personally think that reads on day 1 are unlikely to be accurate except through dumb luck anyway.

I guess it doesn't hurt to back up my thinking with an actual vote.
UNVOTE: dr dolittle
VOTE: Killthestory

How does the post you linked make people less likely to post?

Can you answer this, Karnos?

.

Ozy: just to respond, even though you have already switched votes: my "careful" posting style is just how I post. Read through the start of last game if you care enough, I was accused of similiar right from the start.

I will, if I have the time. What do you think about Ranger?

1: didn't it? He posted, then he jumped on the next person to post, and then there was a little back-and-forth directly talking about how killthestory made the board silent, then nothing until the next morning.

The only players who should be afraid to post are scum players, after the post from Kill, are scum players.

[Ozymandias]

Well, alright then, I guess.

Find a quote where I try to defend him, without actually defending him.

I quite literally quoted it when I made the original accusation.

I agree that it was an horrible post, in general, but is it more likely to come from scum or town?

So I repeat. This is trying to defend him (the second half), without trying to defend him (the first half), ergo, neutral stance without actually being neutral.

Oops, my bad. I will try to pay more attention to pronouns.

Regarding the first part, here is my full post, of which you quoted only one sentence.

Ranger, do you really believe your reads?

if so, explain what about this...

The buddying between Creature and Ranger was just so hard and came out of nowhere and it was Creature defending a post which even Ranger admitted was stupid as fuck. I suppose it's possible they're masons but I cannot possibly believe they're both VT.

... would come from scum.

I agree that it was an horrible post, in general, but is it more likely to come from scum or town?

As far as I know, scum can speculate about Masons in their thread. It just confirm my read on Katsu, his posts are genuine, even if bad.

I think I make it pretty clear that I think Kasu is Town, saying I didn't really defend him is ridiculous. The question you quoted was obviously rhetoric and was I supposed to say that it was a good post when it was not?

[Ozymandias]

To whoever asked me why I unvoted Karnos and voted ranger, it was because he had not been online since I replaced in and I did not want to leave my vote there until he came online. I still don't really like his posts, even though I only skimmed the last three pages.

VOTE: BTD6_maker

I am still waiting for you to explain the Kasu read step by step, because your stance on him was awkward, to say the least.

And your reads list was questionable, to say the least.

I will re read the last pages better when I have the time.

[Ozymandias]

Hmmm, I am not sure Scum!Karnos would go against people who are probably Masons this way. I may need to rethink that read.

[Ozymandias]

To whoever asked me why I unvoted Karnos and voted ranger, it was because he had not been online since I replaced in and I did not want to leave my vote there until he came online. I still don't really like his posts, even though I only skimmed the last three pages.

VOTE: BTD6_maker

I am still waiting for you to explain the Kasu read step by step, because your stance on him was awkward, to say the least.

And your reads list was questionable.

I will re read the last pages better when I have the time.

Corrected.

[Ozymandias]

I got my Kasumeat read as he was self-voting, which I thought scum are much more likely to do. He is still a weak scum lean of mine, but by now it's pretty much nullscum.

What I don't understand here is how he can go from scum when he self voted, to nullscum because he unvoted? Every scum with a brain would have unvoted there, if you thought he was scum when he self voted, there is no reason to not believe so when he unvoted himself. Unless you followed a different train of thoughts, in which case I am interested to hear it.

[Ozymandias]

He is scum because his reads are fake, not because he put the Moderator in his reads list.

I have given backing on each read I have been asked about. That's literally the opposite of faked.

Forgot to address this. Explaining reads does not mean they cannot be fake, otherwise scum would lose every game.

[Ozymandias]

Kill, what do you think about Kasu? You and Ranger seem to have different opinions.

[Ozymandias]

To whoever asked me why I unvoted Karnos and voted ranger, it was because he had not been online since I replaced in and I did not want to leave my vote there until he came online. I still don't really like his posts, even though I only skimmed the last three pages.

VOTE: BTD6_maker

I am still waiting for you to explain the Kasu read step by step, because your stance on him was awkward, to say the least.

And your reads list was questionable, to say the least.

I will re read the last pages better when I have the time.

In what way is my reads list questionable? Again, it differs from yours. I have a different perspective. I could certainly have been scumreading you or the Masons but at that stage there was no indication of who was and was not Mason. Having inaccurate early reads does not imply that anyone is scum.

Also, in Newbie 1700 RadiantCowbells refused to unvote himself in Day 2. That is my only past MS.net experience so that is why I was using it. Of course, I may be wrong as I only have one sample.

That was a different situation, when someone self votes and it's not an hammer, you have to look only at one thing: is that a frustated townie or scum faking frustation? I don't think Kasu unvoting himself is indicative.

But if that's your experience here, I guess it could make sense.

Regarding your read list, I don't like that you had Ranger as null, I think she has done enough to warrant a read.

Do you have me as scum because you think I am Kasu's scumbuddy or are there other reasons?

I am also interested to hear why you have Random as Town.

[Ozymandias]

The question you quoted was obviously rhetoric and was I supposed to say that it was a good post when it was not?

You were flat-out saying the post was bad. This you admit. You also were flat-out defending him. This is from the post itself where you ask what about it is scummy in spite of acknowledging it was a bad post. This is "trying to have your cake and eat it, too".

I don't really understand well the second part of your post, so correct me if I am misunderstanding it.

You say I ask what about the post is scummy, which is false. I asked what about that post would come from scum, which is different, bad posts =/= scum posts. You seem stuck on the concept that bad post mean that it's scum writing, which is wrong.

Kasu's post did not help either factions, which is why I classified it as bad. Usually this type of impulsive, not well thought out, posts tend to come from Town, which is why I think that post is more likely to come from Town.

Also, explain how motivating your reads makes them the opposite of fake. Do you believe fake reads are all unexplained and all explained reads are genuine? That's what you seem to imply.

[Ozymandias]

Since ranger is not claiming Mason, I want Kill to come online and explain to me why he thinks ranger is Town, without including the fact that "he is Mason" in his explanation.

[Ozymandias]

She*

Sorry, damn.

[Ozymandias]

By the way, BTD, in fifteen pages there has been enough content to something more than weak gut reads, in my opinion.

Would you be comfortable with lynching anyone right now? Excluding the Masons situation.

Same to Charl.

And there is pretty much no way Kill is scum, I agree with Charl, I think we are thinking about the same thing.

[Ozymandias]

*to have

[Ozymandias]

I'm interested to hear why you think I'm scum.

Sure.

Top class play coming from kts, not calling L-1 on page 2. Confident in the vote now.
Also kts, I was the first person to vote you. I'm not jumping on the wagon, I'm returning to it.

This post came after Kill accused you of OMGUSing ( is that a term? ). While I don't really put much stock in OMGUS as a reliable scum tell, your first vote on Kill was in the very first post of the game, so clearly not serious, which makes your answer to Kill strange. How does the fact that you voted Kill in the first post of the game means that you are not "jumping on the wagon"?

Yeah, that's a poor vote kop. His push on Joe would be a better reason

Masq's defense of Kop was a bit off.

Both of these posts gave me the impression of someone distancing himself from the conflict, they are pretty general statements, who seem to doubtcast without actually exposing themselves.

I know you elaborated on them, once me and ranger ( I think ) asked, but that was my first impression of them.

Your entrance was really good, as I said, so there is that, but the rest of your play has been meh.

Also, you voted a guy who said he was going to be V/LA until Monday morning, like five posts after he said it. I really don't think that's a good vote.

You are the less comfortable of my scumreads, as I already said somewhere, which is why I was interested in BTD's read on you.

[Ozymandias]

Another possibility, of course, is that KTS is scum who randomly happened to name an actual mason as a mason, by pure chance. But I'm not sure what incentive a mason would have to not out KTS's lie.

This would be irrelevant, they could just say that they are not Mason and Kill is lying and they expose scum without outing themselves as mason.

There is no reason for scum!Kill to make this play D1, fakeclaiming mason makes sense only later in the game from a scum PoV. And it doesn't strike me as a gambit either, since I am not seeing the benefits, besides having all the Town angry at you.

I don't know about Kop ( where is he, by the way? ) and Ranger ( still think he is scum ), but Kill is definitely Town.

[Ozymandias]

I am suggesting that Kill is either:

1. Mason who is telling the truth.

2. VT who is gambiting.

3. Mason who is lying about the other two masons.

In all of these cases, Kill is Town. For now, I will work under the assumption that Ranger and Kop ( and Kill ) could not be Masons.

no when I was in my scum perspective before I looked back at my role, Ranger seemed pretty obvtown. I agree moreso with his reads here because now I know I'm actually scum, and that when I was in my scum mindset, he was scumreading me. His reads are correct this game, and I like them. He's town af dude lol.

BTD6 is not town tho

Ozy, it was this post that lead KTS down the road of claiming mason. I agree it would be silly for a scum to claim mason day 1 in a typical day, but after making a huge misspost like this he had to cover it up somehow so he claimed he meant to say mason.

They could have just said they typed scum instead of Town, by mistake, which they did and I think it's what happened here. Nothing too hard to shrug off as a simple mistake.

Scum!kill would have waited to see the reaction of people to it, instead of thinking on the spot of a gambit who would probably lead to his death.

[Ozymandias]

Kop is due for a prod in about 8 hours, by the way.

[Ozymandias]

I'm surprised you don't think it's a possibility that KTS is scum. Not trying to rolefish, but are you trying to subtly hint that you are actually a mason with KTS?

If you think I am trying to subtly hint at it, then don't point it out, man.

Luckily, nope, that's not the case. I could or could not be mason, with or not with Kill, I am obviously not answering this, no matter my role; but I was not trying to subtly hint at anything, I don't have any problems saying this much.

I am just confident Kill is Town, like I am confident Kasu is Town. Maybe even more.

[Ozymandias]

1. The thing about kts was a joke
2. I wasn't distancing myself. I was talking about it. Literally the opposite.
It didn't cross my mind about masquerade being on V/LA
UNVOTE:
VOTE: charloux

1. Fair enough, I can see how it can be meant this way.

2. You were talking about it in very general terms, your tone seemed distanced. That was my impression.

3. Alright, I guess.

[Ozymandias]

Wow..... This game.... Wtf, why did the masons claim day 1??? Really guys, I think it has to be legit because by now a real mason would have countered. But I also agree that we shouldn't rush things because we have so much time left. Give everyone a chance to respond. Also, if this is a fake claim, please only one mason counter. I doubt it is a fake claim but just in case. I don't like karnos' latest post against kts. I understand you think it may be fake, but if it is we will know soon, no need to push the issue so hard right now. If it is true, bad luck for getting kop as a mason considering how inactive he is. For now I need to...

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Javajoe24

Almost forgot about this post. The reactions looked fake to me.

Do you have some reads, Joe?

[Ozymandias]

reaction*

[Ozymandias]

I am not used to day phases so long.

Anyway, I am leaning Town on Karnos, liked their posts recently.

Still waiting for Kop to comment on Kill's claim or on anything, really.

[Ozymandias]

Town:
Me

Probably Town:
Kasu
Kill

Town Lean:
Masq
Karnos
Charloux

Null:
Creature
Kop
Random

Scum Lean:
BTD

Probably Scum:
Java
Ranger

I am ignoring Mason claims, for now.

I need to re read Creature, I thought he was scum before the break, but I forgot why.

Random is the closest to being a Town lean, right now, of the nulls.

Kop is simply inactive.

Charloux read is mostly a tone and guts read.

Masq has not done anything particularly hard to fake as scum, but I mostly liked their contributions.

[Ozymandias]

Liking a Joe lynch right now, he seems more focused on himself than on actually scumhunting. And then, there is the whole deal with the post everyone is quoting.

A Ranger lynch would involve having him hardclaim, which is sub optimal, considering the situation.

[Ozymandias]

So they are banking on Kop not checking in two weeks? Doubtful.

[Ozymandias]

Liking a Joe lynch right now, he seems more focused on himself than on actually scumhunting. And then, there is the whole deal with the post everyone is quoting.

A Ranger lynch would involve having him hardclaim, which is sub optimal, considering the situation.

her*

Welp, I can't get it right.

[Ozymandias]

You clearly change socks too often, Charloux.

Anyway, I don't have a problem with Random changing his votes often, I don't see why Town should abstain from using it.

[Ozymandias]

BTD, I like drinking as well, but don't play while completely wasted

Joe lynch is still better than a BTD lynch. I think there is a chance BTD is just a VI.

[Ozymandias]

Can someone ISO Creature and tell me what they think about them? I did not like the buddying with Ranger during the "reaction test", it seemed like scum trying to look good in the eyes of someone they believe to be Town. I. also, think they overthought the whole situation, with the reaction test theory, which is more scum indicative than Town indicative.

I did like their later posts though, so I don't know. Still a scum lean, over all.

Creature, do you think BTD is scum or VI?

[Ozymandias]

Joe is still better than BTD. He keeps commenting on irrelevant aspects of the game, without actually trying to solve it. Still waiting for your reads, man.

I am having trouble understanding where the VI border ends and it becomes scum this game. Not everyone can be a VI here, someone must be dumb scum or scum faking dumb, I guess, otherwise the game is solved.

[Ozymandias]

That's bad.

Masons can be wrong.

I think BTD has a chance at being Town, I am not seeing it with Joe.

[Ozymandias]

And why do you think Joe is Town?

[Ozymandias]

I would be fine with lynching Joe and end the day right now, honestly. He has been avoiding giving reads for days, pretty sure he is scum.

I hate stalling.

With that being said, I won't be able to post much next week. Sorry.

[Ozymandias]

I am leaning Town on Charloux on tone, I would lynch Creature, BTD, Joe and Ranger before them, at least, maybe even Kop.

I disliked Kasu recent buddying to Masons, but I still believe their early posts are a huge town tell.

I am ignoring Mason claims while making reads, by the way.

[Ozymandias]

Also, there is no way Joe realistically flips Town, in my opinion, while BTD could; so if our "Masons" could actually realize this and switch to Joe, that would be great.

Also, Karnos, if you would stop fishing for my role, that would be great.

[Ozymandias]

could*

[Ozymandias]

Creature, can you walk me through your thought process when you saw Ranger put the Moderator's name in his reads list? I am having trouble seeing it as a Town reaction, right now.

[Ozymandias]

Quick summary of why Joe is scum:

1. No reads given.

2. Fake reactions and general scummy posts.

3. Pretty much appears to only cares about himself, classic scum self awareness.

[Ozymandias]

Is everyone fine with having Joe hardclaim right now? He is being scum read by literally everyone and I don't see it changing neither do I see him getting NKed, if he somehow survives today.

In case he is a surprise Mason claim, we have all the time to deal with it this way.

[Ozymandias]

Well, damn. Sorry to hear that Joe.

[Ozymandias]

I choose to believe the mason claims and I know I am not scum, therefore the scum pool consists of {charl, btd, creature, karnos, kasumeat, masquerade, ozy, and random}. Out of these 8, 4 are scum. My Reads in order of scumminest is btd>ozy>masquerade >creature>random>kasumeat >charl>karnos

If you could explain those reads when you have time, that would be great.

[Ozymandias]

Still fine with ending the day here, game has been dragging on since the pause pretty much.

I still stand by Joe>BTD, but apparently the Masons like a BTD lynch more for some reason.

Pretty sure I am town reading someone I should not, probably Charloux, maybe Masq.

[Ozymandias]

BTD and Karnos both basically spend the latter part of the day rolefishing.

[Ozymandias]

I am not even that convinced anymore that BTD is scum, frankly, after skimming through his Newbie game where he had the exact same tone. I would like to read a game where he was scum, but apparently there is not one.

hm, Karnos does read newbtown to me and gut read is town, but his insistence in seeing if I'm lying is just strange

Karnos is probably Town, yeah.

[Ozymandias]

I would expect scum to react to masons revealing more like Joe did, even though not this extreme, maybe. I don't think Karnos would obsess so much over Masons lying, as scum.

[Ozymandias]

K.

[Ozymandias]

If Joe flips scum, do you think he was bussed or that his teammate is on BTD/other wagon?

[Ozymandias]

He was a no-brainer buss in theory, no way he was reaching end game. But considering how close the wagons are, I could see his teammate trying to buy a day.

[Ozymandias]

You said you want me to spew as much as I can, but I have nothing to spew. I am a vanilla townie and have already given you my reads, although now I think kasumeat and btd are my top 2 scum reads.

So Kasumeat went from Town to scum because of the hammer discussion? Or is there another reason?

Also, you should explain your reads.

[Ozymandias]

Meh, I still prefer Joe, but Kasu is sheeping the Masons and Masons are not gonna move, so a Joe lynch is not happening.

I just want to end this day, at this point.

If BTD flips Town, tomorrow lynch Joe, even if I die.

If BTD flips scum, still lynch Joe probably, but discuss it a bit more, I guess.

Any last words?

[Ozymandias]

Ah, Charloux is not online anymore.

VOTE: BTD

Good night.

[Ozymandias]

And now Kuroi went offline, too.

[Ozymandias]

Yeah, don't let Joe live to LYLO. he is not gonna get Nked, he needs to be hanged tomorrow, if he is Town and BTD is Town, we already lost anyway.

[Ozymandias]

I guess that could happen, yeah, but I would rather not bank on it, Random.

PE: @Ozy: Don't forget to pay attention to others before you vote for someone!

Hmm?

[Ozymandias]

I still feel like there's a chance we can read Javajoe24.

Meh, I may be suffering of a case of being stuck on my initial read, but I doubt he will change my mind.

[Ozymandias]

Yeah, pretty much that's where I stand, Charloux.

[Ozymandias]

At least we should make him flail, because currently he's avoiding spews, which is technically scum.

BTD or Joe? Because Joe avoided them, but masons still think he is Town, apparently.

[Ozymandias]

Oh, you meant Joe, never mind.

Ask him to give detailed reads, if he refuses, hang him. If he obliges, hang him and look for his teammate in his reads.

[Ozymandias]

Magic ; )

[Ozymandias]

8 vs 4 it's not MYLO, I think?

[Ozymandias]

Never mind, you are right, in theory.

[Ozymandias]

It's MYLO.

We hit Town, it's 5 vs 4, no matter who we lynch, we are gonna have two night kills N2 and lose majority.

[Ozymandias]

Obviously, that's WCS, which probably won't happen.

[Ozymandias]

Magic ; )

[Ozymandias]

Pretty sure there is a way, but I would need to look into the implications of the respective night kills for scum and I don't really feel like doing it.

[Ozymandias]

VOTE: Masquerade

Probably him and Joe?

L-1

[Ozymandias]

BTW, what do people think of my rhymes?

Pretty good.

[Ozymandias]

I am pretty sure Masq is always flipping Werewolf here.

And Joe has to be hanged in every scenario, as well, and he will probably flip Mafia.

We may as well quicklynch, unless someone has objections.

[Ozymandias]

What do you guys make of Ranger's interaction with Joe? She was townreading him hard. If Joe is her scumbuddy, she'd have to know that her protection of him wouldn't last long once her Mason cover is blown. If he wasn't her scumbuddy, I'm not sure she'd risk buddying him since it looks like there's a pretty good chance he's scum.

Ranger knew he was dying N1, most likely, and he was not reaching end game, anyway. If his teammate gets hanged D1, that means a loss, basically.

[Ozymandias]

If we are wrong on Masq, we have tomorrow to discuss it, but I don't think we are.

[Ozymandias]

We are going to have one more flip and two weeks to discuss it; it's enough, in my opinion.

Anyway, sure, we can wait, if you want.

[Ozymandias]

Assuming Masq flips Werewolf.

[Ozymandias]

It's L-2, right now.

[Ozymandias]

He was Ranger's highest read and he was pushing you, that's probably the reason.

[Ozymandias]

Town read*

[Ozymandias]

That was an answer to Joe.

[Ozymandias]

I'm not sure if it's possible for him to be mafia with ranger or not, but I find that scenario unlikely. What are your thoughts on the nk choice of random?

Why do you find it unlikely if you are not sure if it's possible?

And what are your thoughts about the kill?

[Ozymandias]

Oh, Kuroi is online, hammer this, so we can verify the flip.

After that, we have two weeks and one more night flip to solve the game. I am still leaning Joe, but a couple of posts make me a bit unsure.

[Ozymandias]

Alright, let's wait then.

[Ozymandias]

Read his ISO and his interactions with BTD, Karnos, and you will understand. I also can't see anyone else being BTD's teammate, so they basically have to be Werewolf by PoE, as well.

Also, drop the rolefishing.

Kill could be VT gambiting hard or a Mason, his gambit resulted in a Mafia death; it doesn't matter what role they are, they are obviously Town.

Can't say the same for Kop, though. If he is not Mason, he could be scum with Ranger, in theory, but I am not interested in going there until tomorrow.

[Ozymandias]

UNVOTE: Masquerade

Let's play the waiting game, then, if that's what you guys want.

Knew this was coming the moment I signed up for this game.

<3

Oh, hello : )

Sorry about messing up your gender all game, I know it's annoying, but I am used to use male pronouns.

[Ozymandias]

Who do you think is Ranger's buddy, Karnos?

[Ozymandias]

Town:
Me
Kill
Kasu
Kop, maybe? Depends if Mason, really. Putting him here for now, if he is not Mason, put him at the bottom of the group below:

Probably Town, ordered from most trusted to less:
Karnos
Charloux
Creature

Probably Scum:
Joe

Scum:
Masquerade

[Ozymandias]

I agree.

Karnos, put your vote down, Masquerade has only two votes on him anyway.

[Ozymandias]

Who do you think is Ranger's buddy, Karnos?

If I were to ignore the mason claims, and/or assume they are a complete lie?

kop was very low activity early game, and still doesn't seem to post much, makes me think he was partnered with *someone*, and obviously isn't a real mason

KTS I already post this earlier in the thread, I thought then that scumKTS may have picked ranger as a "mason" because ranger was his scum partner. the absurdity of it is exactly why it works, nobody suspects KTS of being anything but town because what scum would do that? obviously this theory is useless if KTS is a real mason - I don't need to pursue it, because the real masons know the truth.

creature on review, it seems creature and ranger mostly rated each other as solid town, and creature repeatedly defended ranger when ranger was accused of scummy behavior. other than ranger interactions, I don't have much of a read on creature, he is a bit of a wildcard so it's possible he is the other mafia.

javajoe, already mentioned by others as a possibility: sure. maybe. not my first pick though.

Others: I eliminated some from consideration because I don't think scum would bus hard in this setup, of course I could be wrong on that. I am also eliminating obv town or masons from consideration.

I have yet to look into Creature/Ranger, but I don't really think Creature would do the whole deal with Ranger about putting the Moderator in the reads list, if they were scumbuddies. Other than that, I don't think they have had many interactions as far as I remember, so you have a point there. If Joe flips Town, they are the next one I would look into, probably.

So, do you consider Charloux obvious Town?

[Ozymandias]

Ye, probably will.

[Ozymandias]

Alright, I feel similarly, I do believe them to be Town, barring surprise from Masq and/or Joe. Well, I believe everyone but Joe and Masquerade to be Town, honestly, simply to varying degrees of confidence.

VOTE: Masquerade

Someone hammer this.

[Ozymandias]

Everyone who wanted to talk, talked; besides Kop, but we may be stuck waiting a while there.

I would rather work on Joe tomorrow, with the confirm that Masquerade is Werewolf and one more Town flip.

[Ozymandias]

Can we?

[Ozymandias]

VOTE: Masquerade
@Scum: Kill me tonight please <3

You are not getting your rhyme.

[Ozymandias]

Oh right, I forgot.

[Ozymandias]

Like a bird on the wire,
like a drunk in a midnight choir
I have tried in my way to be free.

I want this as my epigraph, Kuroi.

[Ozymandias]

Choose your own adventure

You're Joe, full name's Java Joe Parker. You're home choosing who to kill.
(a) Kill obvious town
(b) Find the real mason
(c) Stay 2 days breathing before the final lynch
(d) Go to Kuroi's wedding

Lol.

[Ozymandias]

Sorry, man, but I don't think a defense would have saved you here, anyway.

[Ozymandias]

Well, since you hare here, do you agree it's Joe?

[Ozymandias]

People who were on Joe wagon: Masquerade, myself, BTD, Random and Karnos.

Among those, the only one possible was you pretty much and a bus was unlikely, considering how close the wagons were. And you had the worst interactions with BTD, anyway.

Nah I'ma look for a shaman and get full moon invoked and eat you all!

Welp.

[Ozymandias]

If Joe flips scum, you were the best scum, in my opinion, though.

[Ozymandias]

If Joe flips scum, you were the best scum, in my opinion, though.

Ranger had perfect reads on the other scum team, though.

Yeah ok I think I'm gonna go now before this becomes and end-game convo We'll talk once this is over.

GL to all!

See you later.

[Ozymandias]

Yeah, guessed I was going down last night. WP, I believe in you guys.

Ah, I missed this.

R.I.P.

Are night skip votes done in thread or PMed to Kuroi during the night, if allowed? I mean, scum must have the time to decide the kill.

Joe, you are getting lynched tomorrow, no questions: are you scum? If you confess, we can just skip.

[Ozymandias]

PMed

Did you receive a PM from Kuroi asking if you want to skip night?

Thanks and nope.

Also, I believe Javajoe24 won't get a chance to post before being hammered like Masquerade.

If he is quick enough, he may manage to get a post in.

[Ozymandias]

Oh you mean ending the night early because of the wedding? Yeah, I received it, then.

[Ozymandias]

We will just PM Kuroi asking him to end the night early. Once he receives PMs from masons and the last Mafia, night is skipped, I suppose.

[Ozymandias]

R.I.P.

VOTE: Joe

[Ozymandias]

Good rhymes.

[Ozymandias]

Scumread? How?

[Ozymandias]

Not that it matters, but no way he was flipping scum, imo.

[Ozymandias]

So he was a Mason, eh.

Let's try again.

VOTE: Creature

[Ozymandias]

Best rhymes yet, maybe it's a good sign.

[Ozymandias]

Karnos, talk to me. Who is scum here?

Hope you guys appreciated the night write-up. I thought sleeping and peaceful nights could be more festive, so I included alcohol. <3

Good choice.

[Ozymandias]

Your interactions with Ranger are the worse here.

Who is scum?

[Ozymandias]

Gotta choose one.

[Ozymandias]

Explain.

[Ozymandias]

So then both claimers get lynched and you've traded a scum for a mason which is a bad trade for the scum.

In a normal game, sure. In this game, one scum faction comes out clearly ahead in such an exchange.

Maybe it's still overall good for town, but it's even better for town if the 3 masons can drive a lynch into KTS without directly coming out, isn't it?

Whatever, just forget I brought it up. I think most likely KTS is indeed what he says he is.
-----------------------------

Back to scum hunting, I'm truly puzzled at the "kop is town" reads. Hiding so much is more often than not a scum tactic. And if kop does it every game, that certainly isn't indicative of him being town, it's just a null indication. So far ranger and KTS are the two pushing the idea that kop is obvious town...

Between the two, I trust ranger a bit less, especially given the recent discussion on KTS' role. Gotta put my vote where my mouth is-

VOTE: ranger

Obviously subject to change if anything comes out against KTS.

This game just tuned up a notch, Is this going to be massclaim day 1? (It's a rhetorical question, don't claim based on my post please)

I'll trust KTS is being honest, since if you aren't it would be a quick end when the real masons counter claim you.

UNVOTE: ranger
VOTE: kop

I just want some discussion, I am not trying to lynch kop just yet, I am just calling BS on the whole "hiding is normal and he is town" thing. There is no reason for town to hide.

kop is also mason, please unvote

Really?

kop isnt a mason but me and ranger r

Really?

Fine.

UNVOTE: kop

VOTE: Killthestory

You story just doesn't make sense anymore. I think you are scum. If your claims are true, I'm sure ranger and kop will rush to your support and lynch me, but at this point I'll take that risk.

Here is my problem with Karnos.

This progression here was super townie.

[Ozymandias]

I believe Ranger was trying to not buddy neither distance herself from her partner.

This applies to everyone alive, besides me.

He never had much interactions with anyone else alive, as far as I remember. So why Karnos over Charloux?

[Ozymandias]

That's just bias since they are both alive right now, I don't see anything strange with it, they were pretty similar reads for me, as well.

Why Karnos over Charloux?

[Ozymandias]

I actually agree with you. I don't think Charloux is scum; but I don't believe Karnos is scum either, so this leaves me with you.

[Ozymandias]

How confident are you in Karnos over Charloux?

[Ozymandias]

I actually agree with you. I don't think Charloux is scum; but I don't believe Karnos is scum either, so this leaves me with you.

What most of the players alive said when Javajoe was being lynched.

Indeed, which is why I am not actually engaging you, instead of doing like with Joe and Masq.

Ranger did a good job setting up the mislynch, by the way, even though Joe's play did not help.

[Ozymandias]

Why did you town read Ranger early D1?

[Ozymandias]

I actually agree with you. I don't think Charloux is scum; but I don't believe Karnos is scum either, so this leaves me with you.

What most of the players alive said when Javajoe was being lynched.

Indeed, which is why I am not actually engaging you, instead of doing like with Joe and Masq.

Ranger did a good job setting up the mislynch, by the way, even though Joe's play did not help.

I am actually engaging*

[Ozymandias]

So then both claimers get lynched and you've traded a scum for a mason which is a bad trade for the scum.

In a normal game, sure. In this game, one scum faction comes out clearly ahead in such an exchange.

Maybe it's still overall good for town, but it's even better for town if the 3 masons can drive a lynch into KTS without directly coming out, isn't it?

Whatever, just forget I brought it up. I think most likely KTS is indeed what he says he is.
-----------------------------

Back to scum hunting, I'm truly puzzled at the "kop is town" reads. Hiding so much is more often than not a scum tactic. And if kop does it every game, that certainly isn't indicative of him being town, it's just a null indication. So far ranger and KTS are the two pushing the idea that kop is obvious town...

Between the two, I trust ranger a bit less, especially given the recent discussion on KTS' role. Gotta put my vote where my mouth is-

VOTE: ranger

Obviously subject to change if anything comes out against KTS.

This game just tuned up a notch, Is this going to be massclaim day 1? (It's a rhetorical question, don't claim based on my post please)

I'll trust KTS is being honest, since if you aren't it would be a quick end when the real masons counter claim you.

UNVOTE: ranger
VOTE: kop

I just want some discussion, I am not trying to lynch kop just yet, I am just calling BS on the whole "hiding is normal and he is town" thing. There is no reason for town to hide.

kop is also mason, please unvote

Really?

kop isnt a mason but me and ranger r

Really?

Fine.

UNVOTE: kop

VOTE: Killthestory

You story just doesn't make sense anymore. I think you are scum. If your claims are true, I'm sure ranger and kop will rush to your support and lynch me, but at this point I'll take that risk.

Here is my problem with Karnos.

This progression here was super townie.

What about this? Do you see this coming from Ranger's teammate?

[Ozymandias]

Nah, I just wanted to have you talk under some pressure.

You should focus on answer my questions instead of on irrelevant things, man.

[Ozymandias]

I am seeing Ranger as town. I believe she usually makes not-so-well-thought gut reads. The Kuroi read seems weird, but I don't see scum motivation behind it.

Here.

[Ozymandias]

But how are they Town indicative?

[Ozymandias]

Do you have a scum game I can read, by the way?

[Ozymandias]

And why do you feel they were Town indicative in this particular case?

Yes, I have completed one game as mafia goon and one game as serial killer, let me link these.

Thanks.

[Ozymandias]

Do you guys think I am Mason or not?

[Ozymandias]

The only problem I have with Creature being scum is that in his only Mafia game, he never interacted with his partner, while here he had some early interactions with Ranger.

[Ozymandias]

The rest fits though.

[Ozymandias]

Creature, if you are not scum and you think Charloux is Town, make an argument for Karnos, because I am not seeing it.

[Ozymandias]

Do you guys think I am Mason or not?

That was for everyone.

[Ozymandias]

We are going to have a confirmed Town in LYLO, no matter if Masons claim or they don't.

If the Mason claim gets counterclaimed, it means one VT is confirmed in LYLO, otherwise the mason is confirmed.

Having Masons claim is irrelevant.

[Ozymandias]

I think Kop and Ozy are masons; Creature was a townread of mine, which leaves only Karnos as scum since i know my role

Alright, he was a townread, but what about now?

[Ozymandias]

Also, since I don't think anyone here is dumb enough to not have figured out I am mason; yeah, I am a Mason.

No need to reveal the second.

[Ozymandias]

Kill agreed with me that it's Creature, by the way.

[Ozymandias]

Let's see:

So then both claimers get lynched and you've traded a scum for a mason which is a bad trade for the scum.

In a normal game, sure. In this game, one scum faction comes out clearly ahead in such an exchange.

Maybe it's still overall good for town, but it's even better for town if the 3 masons can drive a lynch into KTS without directly coming out, isn't it?

Whatever, just forget I brought it up. I think most likely KTS is indeed what he says he is.
-----------------------------

Back to scum hunting, I'm truly puzzled at the "kop is town" reads. Hiding so much is more often than not a scum tactic. And if kop does it every game, that certainly isn't indicative of him being town, it's just a null indication. So far ranger and KTS are the two pushing the idea that kop is obvious town...

Between the two, I trust ranger a bit less, especially given the recent discussion on KTS' role. Gotta put my vote where my mouth is-

VOTE: ranger

Obviously subject to change if anything comes out against KTS.

This game just tuned up a notch, Is this going to be massclaim day 1? (It's a rhetorical question, don't claim based on my post please)

I'll trust KTS is being honest, since if you aren't it would be a quick end when the real masons counter claim you.

UNVOTE: ranger
VOTE: kop

I just want some discussion, I am not trying to lynch kop just yet, I am just calling BS on the whole "hiding is normal and he is town" thing. There is no reason for town to hide.

kop is also mason, please unvote

Really?

kop isnt a mason but me and ranger r

Really?

Fine.

UNVOTE: kop

VOTE: Killthestory

You story just doesn't make sense anymore. I think you are scum. If your claims are true, I'm sure ranger and kop will rush to your support and lynch me, but at this point I'll take that risk.

And what is scummy about those posts?

[Ozymandias]

I'll come out with my thoughts and claim.

I am not a mason. VT all the way. I suspect Ozy and Kop are the masons, but I think charloux could also be the 3rd mason instead of kop. I was unsure about creature, but based on what he said above I don't see any chance of him being the other mason.

So from my PoV, charloux kop and creature are my choices for potential scum.

I think claims are the correct play: if we don't win today and if the scum kill a mason, the last mason loses all value if he didn't already claim & confirm today.

When did you suspect I was a Mason?

[Ozymandias]

Ozymandias

In the first post he just said he trusted Ranger less, but also stated he was subject to change.

In the second post he believes KTS and changes his vote to Kop, but this time with a reasoning (even if it looks weak). He didn't look to be wanting to change.

In the third post he distrusted KTS when he said Kop was also a mason.

He has the same approach to the Ranger vote as he has with the Kop vote and him and Kop can't be both scum. He has that overly cautious playstyle which throws me off a bit, but it's not alignment indicative for him.

Obviously he believes KTS, why would he not believe someone claiming Mason D1? It would be suicide for scum.

Last point is actually townie, he gave good reason to distrust KTS. Or do you think they were not good reasons?

[Ozymandias]

reasons*

[Ozymandias]

UNVOTE: Creature

Could you put your vote down on Creature, Charloux?

[Ozymandias]

Creature gets always lynched here, whether today or tomorrow. I would rather get this out of the way today and see how it goes. Plus, if he flips Town, we will have his opinion as well on who the last scum is.

All Masons agreed he is the first choice.

kop isnt a mason but me and ranger r

You don't consider this post a good explanation to doubt Kill claiming Kop is Mason?

[Ozymandias]

VOTE: Creature

Geez, I'll have to wait 3-4 more days because Ozy doesn't want to lynch the real scum and the real scum will want a 48 hours night for breath.

Or you are the real scum and game ends here. I wonder which one is true.

[Ozymandias]

So, were you scum, Creature?

[Ozymandias]

Honestly, whoever of you three is scum played a pretty good game.

[Ozymandias]

Probably.

[Ozymandias]

I never confirmed anyone here.

[Ozymandias]

Just sheep Kop tomorrow.

[Ozymandias]

If Creature is Town.

[Ozymandias]

I think Kuroi is writing some good rhymes for you, Creature.

[Ozymandias]

No.

[Ozymandias]

Or maybe we can.

[Ozymandias]

He went offline.

[Ozymandias]

I am pretty sure game ends today.

[Ozymandias]

Well, fuck.

Sorry Creature, but no regrets.

[Ozymandias]

You think Charloux is more likely to be scum than Karnos random?

Yeah

Interesting.

[Ozymandias]

My first point in Mafia chat after we hanged Joe was that Karnos and Kasu were obvious Town and we would have won lynching Creature>Charloux. now Creature is making me doubt this, but I still think his case on Karnos is bs, frankly.

[Ozymandias]

I find Karnos hard to read because he's playing equally scummy as BTD but is less experienced so it could just be inexperience, or it could be a ploy to use his inexperience to play anti-town. He's null for me, whereas Charloux's wishy washy play and strange reads make him slightly scummy.

My original thought was Charloux. His no-vote promise is scummy, as is his attacking Random for changing his mind. On the other hand, his posts over the past week have been townier so I dunno. What I don't like is Ranger's interaction with him: She completely ignored him, and he stayed at the middle of her readlist which I think is the most likely place to find her scumbuddy. He's the player she drew the least attention to.

Even more interesting.

How is everyone that suspected you over Karnos died, Charloux?

[Ozymandias]

Town-KTS, Kop, Ranger.
L.Town- Creature, Karnos.
Null- Masquerade, Javajoe, Ozy
L.Scum- Kasumeat, Random, BTD6
I have nothing to add for Joe, hence the nullread. I'm too lazy for a BTD analysis right now so i will just scribble something:

You have karnos and creature in the same tier, explain what changed that led to this post:

I think Kop and Ozy are masons; Creature was a townread of mine, which leaves only Karnos as scum since i know my role

[Ozymandias]

Well Kasumeat was my strongest scumread so this makes things easier for me.
VOTE: Joe

Also, explain why you thought Kasu was scum after Ranger's flip, as you state here.

[Ozymandias]

Well not so sure about masquerade, but i can bet btd is a mason, hence his odd aggresiveness towards kts. But i think kts is just a vt putting up a gambit.

What made you think KTS was just a VT pulling a gambit?

[Ozymandias]

Karnos

1. Why are you Town?

2. Why is Charloux scum?

3. Why did you spend half D1 rolefishing?

[Ozymandias]

Karnos

1. Why are you Town?

2. Why is Charloux scum?

3. Why did you spend half D1 rolefishing?

And answer like "I am Town, so by my PoV Charloux has to be scum" are not acceptable.

[Ozymandias]

My first point in Mafia chat after we hanged Joe was that Karnos and Kasu were obvious Town and we would have won lynching Creature>Charloux. now Creature is making me doubt this, but I still think his case on Karnos is bs, frankly.

Mason chat*

Lol.

[Ozymandias]

Well Kasumeat was my strongest scumread so this makes things easier for me.
VOTE: Joe

Also, explain why you thought Kasu was scum after Ranger's flip, as you state here.

Rangers flip had nothing to do with it. My main reason was his mentality from 622 to 647 But now that i ISOed him, his last few posts would make me put him below Joe in lynch list.

What I mean is that you said he was a scumread even after Ranger's flip, not that your scumread on him was linked to that.

Why did you still think Kasu was a scumread despite his interactions with Ranger? It really looked like distancing from the night kill to me.

Also, you had him as a scumread way before the posts you mentioned. Explain.

[Ozymandias]

If any of you has a scum game on this site, link me to it, by the way.

[Ozymandias]

Sigh, hard choices.

[Ozymandias]

Sorry i can't remember why i thought he was scummy because i didn't write it down or post and i just made a mental remark. So...yeah... i'm scummy as fuck now...

Do you remember why you posted this?

Well Kasumeat was my strongest scumread so this makes things easier for me.
VOTE: Joe

[Ozymandias]

I hated Karnos's first post today, if it wasn't for that, I would probably lynch you without regrets.

[Ozymandias]

Kill had Karnos as scum and Charloux as Town in Mason chat.

But he also had Ranger as Town and Kasu as scum, so I don't know how much to trust his reads here.

[Ozymandias]

Kill had Karnos as scum and Charloux as Town in Mason chat.

But he also had Ranger as Town and Kasu as scum, so I don't know how much to trust his reads here.

That was N1, as well, so maybe they changed.

[Ozymandias]

I don't know if you are trying to win me over because I said I have a soft post for VIs or if it's real, because you looked smarter than this during the game.

[Ozymandias]

Meh, whatever the result, I enjoyed this game, even though I would have preferred being scum.

I hope everyone else feels the same way.

[Ozymandias]

Probs.

[Ozymandias]

If you would give me a reason to lynch Karnos over you, besides the fact that he is scum, I would appreciate it.

[Ozymandias]

Just follow your gut and vote, i won't be mad no matter the outcome; If i lose that just means i suck.
PE: This is freshest so i will go with it: Town-Karnos has no reason not to insta-vote me since you are obv town. Instead he is cautious to the point of creepiness. And if we haven't caught the last scum so far it's more likelier that he was townread.

Well, you both were mostly a town read.

I agree that Karnos is really too cautious ( I voted him in my first post for it ), but I read his newbie game and that's pretty much his playstyle.

[Ozymandias]

Man to man is so unjust, children:
Ya don't know who to trust.
Your worst enemy could be your best friend,
And your best friend your worse enemy.

Some will eat and drink with you,
Then behind them su-su 'pon you.
Only your friend know your secrets,
So only he could reveal it.
And who the cap fit, let them wear it!
Who the cap fit, let them wear it!
Said I throw me corn, me no call no fowl;
I saying, "Cook-cook-cook, cluk-cluk-cluk."

Some will hate you, pretend they love you now,
Then behind they try to eliminate you.
But who Jah bless, no one curse;
Thank God, we're past the worse.
Hypocrites and parasites
Will come up and take a bite.
And if your night should turn to day,
A lot of people would run away.
And who the stock fit let them wear it!
Who the (cap fit) let them (wear it)!

And then a-gonna throw me corn,
And then a-gonna call no fowl,
And then a-gonna "Cook-cook-cook, cluk-cluk-cluk."

Some will eat and drink with you,
Then behind them su-su 'pon you, yeah!
And if night should turn to day, now,
A lot of people would run away, yeah!
And who the cap fit, let them wear it!
Who the cap fit, let them wear it!
Throw me corn, me no call no fowl;
A-saying: "Cook-cook-cook, cluk-cluk-cluk."
... : "Cook-cook-cook, cluk-cluk-cluk."
Throw me corn (cook-cook-cook);
Me call no fowl (cluk-cluk-cluk)

[Ozymandias]

Bah, whatever, sorry if I am wrong here, but you really did not help yourself today, Charloux. If you are scum, I would regret it more than if Karnos is scum.

VOTE: Charloux

gg

[Ozymandias]

You don't like Bob?