Open 654 | Surrealism - Game over

[Dunnstral]

Where's Zach

[Dunnstral]

Don't forget about me pal

VOTE: Zachstralkita

Don't let this guy get away with it let me tell you

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Aubrey

[Dunnstral]

like even if zach's scum he can't white knight (he can try) here because there's 2 factions

[Dunnstral]

Okay, I believe it's time to start RQS. I'll be taking three suggested questions this time, so think of something that could help advance the game.
1: What is your preferred faction: Town or Mafia?
2: What role interests you the most? Does not have to be in this setup.
3: What do you think the differing factions will do to town's chances?
4: REQUEST SLOT
5: REQUEST SLOT

1. I prefer to be mafia as it feels a lot easier to me than being town and I think I'm better at it
2. Not sure
3. Think it doesn't really matter

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Zachstralkita

I've seen this guy as town quite a bit and let me tell you... he's not town this game

40% chance of being right

[Dunnstral]

zAchstrAlkitA

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Zachstralkita

I've seen this guy as town quite a bit and let me tell you... he's not town this game

40% chance of being right

I'd like to hear a more in depth analysis on this from you.

Pretty damn confirmed. Found a scumteam guys.

Lets hear it then.

Where is Javajoe26 and BTD6_Maker? One could almost forget they are part of this game.

In depth analysis isn't exactly my forte

I think he's playing like he does as scum in this game

What was addressed was that BlackStar strawmanned and deflected what Umlaut conveyed better in #176 than apparently I have in all my posts. I'm quite sure we all know how " strong " his scumread is. No one is feigning ignorance of anything at this point.

Keep using random buzzwords, pal

Incidentally, all of MeowMix's, BTD6's and Java's inactivity appear to be sitewide (their most recent posts are in this thread), so I don't think too much should be read into it.

Dunnstral, on the other hand, is being uncharacteristically quiet. He had 199 posts in day 1 of the first game I played with him and I believe he has a reputation for spamming the shit out of his games in general. Not sure whether this holds in his scum games as well since I have no meta there, but maybe someone else does?

I don't post less as scum
You called me out in tic tac toe mafia too for "being too analytical"

Spoiler: Here are games where I was scum

.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=67083
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=66931
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=66795

If you're still wondering, take a look at my post counts across those games

[Dunnstral]

Okay, enough. This has gone on for FAR too long. I don't really find BlackStar's actions that suspicious, but I definitely find Zachstralkita to be. He keeps trying to derail the discussion onto BlackStar. I don't see any reason town would try to do this.
VOTE: Zach

This is a weird and dramatic post

That's not how anything works, and you don't decide when something starts or stops.

VOTE: Zachstralkita

Just to reiterate: I think Zach is a member of an anti-town faction that opposes the town

[Dunnstral]

I know I'm one to talk but wow you guys have effectively done nothing

[Dunnstral]

I know I'm one to talk but wow you guys have effectively done nothing

It seems you have picked up on this, but yes you don't have much of a right to say that. You had an opportunity to do something when you came in and instead sheeped Gamma.

Still dislike Umlaut; he's scum. Don't like Aubrey, but coming around to him as potentially town that just annoys me. On board with others on Zach being possible scum. He can have time to shape up though. Don't care for MeowMix's re-entrance. Comes in like he's doing something, but just starts a new wagon on someone with no real suspicion. Makes no effort to comment on anything else that has happened.

I "sheeped gamma" ?

I don't remember ever doing that

Dunn is always tunneling Zach, I wouldn't make anything of it myself.

Untrue

Ok, it's too much for me to catch up on. Whose the scummiest person and why? Go!

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand then we have this motherfucker right here.

Some people



Except javajoe was town and you can back off right now

[Dunnstral]

You know, Zach has really changed his tune, or at least it feels like it.
UNVOTE:

That's how he gets you

also FOS Dunn's 242 for that little self-meta thing at the end I was not a particularly big fan of that

Do you disagree with what it actually said?

[Dunnstral]

btw I think blackstar, aubrey, javajoe are all fine members of town


Anyways yeah don't let Zach pull one over on you guys

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Ümläüt

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Ümläüt

Porque? Don't give me the "I don't do analysis" bit either. Please and thank you.

Well nobody else really reacted to the vote

Let's just say I was slightly irked by the post before my vote






VOTE: MeowMix

How many more votes do we need here?

[Dunnstral]

I think Zach might be town


Let's get

VOTE: Aristophanes

This guy looks bad for real

[Dunnstral]

Lurking is anti-Town.

You've literally lurked in every game I've ever seen you in






VOTE: BTD6_maker

[Dunnstral]

You're also usually lynchbait so I'm going to assume you're actually scum this time

[Dunnstral]

Something I noticed from Dunnstral:

You're also usually lynchbait so I'm going to assume you're actually scum this time

I lurked in the last two games I was in with you and I was Town. To suggest purely based on that that I must be scum in this game is the Gambler's Fallacy.

I was mafia in the first game and in the other game I never lynched your slot (though you were a lover with someone else)

I think, specifically, in this game, what you just did stood out to me as actually scummy and beyond lynchbait

[Dunnstral]

wow holy shit

UNVOTE: Gammerald
VOTE: BTD6_maker

Can you please justify this? The fact that I am busy in Real Life means that I cannot put as much time into this game as I would like to. Soon I will be less busy and will be able to invest more into this.

I would prefer it if everyone stopped scumreading me purely because of my low activity. Real life is more important to me than MS.net life.

There are so much things that are scummy

besides

your low activity.



Like, your posts.


I'm still trying to process this. What the fuck is going on.

ping

[Dunnstral]

Something_Scummy is whiteknighting harder than Zach usually does while trying to be on the down-low about it

[Dunnstral]

Zach, why are you refusing to give your reads out of curiosity? I have a townie read from you based on your defense of gamma. I doubt the two of you are scum aligned. If you two were scum, I wouldn't understand Gamma's defense of Skold earlier. From that point of view I would assume your intentions Regarding that defense was town driven vs. scum driven. long story short, I think you have a strong town possibility so I'm interested in your reads. Refusing to give reads doesn't make a lot of sense.

This? I don't currently scumread Gamma and I don't currently townread Zach and I think it's dumb and/or wrong but I don't think you're scummy

Zach makes his reads clear as town, too, even if he doesn't come out and say it he'll be white knighting people

That's why it's rather odd that he jumped onto BTD6 so fast (though I do think BTD6 is scum, too, so it could be a bus move)

[Dunnstral]

@Dunn: this is multiball.

In that case it doesn't matter and they can both be scummy/scum together

I have good reasons to suspect both actually

Zach as Town would probably be more confrontational with me pushing him all game if that makes sense

Btd6 really feeling as scum too

[Dunnstral]

@Dunn: where is the scum benefit for scum Zach to defend town Gamma then?

To look town?

To make Gamma look bad if Zach ever flips scum?

[Dunnstral]

I have Aubrey and Gamma down as hard defending BTD6

[Dunnstral]

AND ANOTHER THING DUNN!

in post 431 you mention that you think Zach maybe town. Now your back to thinking them scum. Where and why did that all of a sudden change?

Because it was a different day and I changed my mind

I'm voting BTD6 right now, not Zach, why do you only want to talk about me and Zach

If you think BTD6 is town, say so, otherwise that's going to be the lynch today. It's really as simple as that. You don't need more from me.

[Dunnstral]

So now...are you going to explain yourself

Not sure what you want me to explain. Pretty sure BTD6 is scum and you two are still avoiding conversation about him

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

This guys just voting whatever other people want

[Dunnstral]

Let's lynch btd6 or gamma

[Dunnstral]

He got lynched D1 in our last game together, though as I said earlier that was a fairly unusual setup

It was also a blitz

And town lost because they lynched me day 1, instead of what I was pushing (to lynch the innocent child, which would have won town the game instantly (both mafia were on the same line)

[Dunnstral]

@Zach so I'm tunneling you, but also ignoring you? Pick one bud, otherwise it's just..... normal interaction

[Dunnstral]

I've noticed that people just write him off as town, though, as opposed to trying to read that. At least it comes off as such. Which is what irritates me. Is it that lovable avi?

It's my lovable personality

My insight is that when I actually replied to his shit a few pages ago head-on, he stops replying to me and has made no further mention of me in way he was before. Yes, I took note of that.

What did you reply to that warranted a reply from me...?

He's going to come in here in a little doubtcasting me

No need

[Dunnstral]

Dunn's reads are notoriously shit

Except, they're not.

I gaurantee you there's at least 1 scum in btd6 and gamma

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: BTD_6

[Dunnstral]

What is the basis for your read on me. You're not accomplishing anything except being vague. And doubtcasting meowmix, and taking no real stance on mostly everything else save for Umlaut.

For me it has a good bit to do with gut. Usually when people have your kind of abrasive style, I've seen certain things accompany it as each alignment. As town, it's likely due to being overconfident, but I don't actually feel that controlling confidence from you. It feels abrasive to no real end.

This is me being civil.

Anyways, ~~

VOTE: Mimikyu

I was thinking about doing this when I read 247, 259, 266 (toss in everything you've said about meowmix)



but then I see that scumpool and oh. oh boy.

Is this your vote right now?

I like how I get called out for tunneling but your vote is parked for 300 posts while you talk about other stuff and try to stop every other lynch from forming while edging mine on from the shadows

I went back and looked at 480 and 481, why didn't you vote btd_6 following that?

[Dunnstral]

Why do you believe that mimikyu is scum again?

I'm sure you've given reasons, just a rehash would be nice

[Dunnstral]

I townread Zach mostly for being uncompromising and genuine (I think, cause I can't meta read him). Plus I agree with his reads (maybe apart from Mimikyu but I'll have to ISO him tomorrow).

How's that coming along

Why is your vote parked on me?

[Dunnstral]

I don't feel I'm getting the recognition I deserve here

[Dunnstral]

I don't feel I'm getting the recognition I deserve here

I agree, we need to be on your case more than we are.

Don't act like you're doing anything

[Dunnstral]

all you've done is sheep it seems.

Sounds like you should reread the game then, maybe less biased

[Dunnstral]

When I pushed Zach, nobody else was pushing him (I certainly wasn't sheeping gamma, who wasn't actually doing anything)

When I pushed BTD6, nobody else had even pushed him. It wasn't "popular" like you said it was.

Saying I haven't provided insight means you need to reread the game for yourself or replace out honestly

[Dunnstral]

And saying "other people voted gamma first" as if that's a reason to not vote him?

[Dunnstral]

This actually makes me feel better about you believe it or not.

Paging Zach

[Dunnstral]

1. Context is important, and you've specifically omitted it to attack me
2. Just because I vote someone that somebody else is voting, doesn't mean I'm sheeping them
3. Why are you trying to focus on me and Zach again? Do you have a compelling reason to be hard defending BTD6 and Gamma? Even if you say you're not, you absolutely without a doubt are. Saying you think I'm scum isn't a reason. It's multiball.

I'm brushing you off because you're making stuff up, and your tunnel on me is worse than the one you've accused me of


Making a big list doesn't make you right. Calling me out for sheeping on post 28 is silly. Saying I voted without a reason in post 22 is silly.
125, so what if it's meta? Seriously: so what?
242: And? So what? What part of this is scummy?
243: Fair enough I guess. Though it's not like I did that on purpose, if that's what it looks like whatever. You'll have noticed I had very minimal activity near the start of the game
244: I'm not wrong, though
314: You say I'm defending my sheeping? You literally didn't call me out for "sheeping gamma" in this very list! It literally did not happen and the fact you're calling me out for this is disgusting play at best
315: Personal attack (?) that doesn't seem to have bearing on my alignment
317: Except I'm not joking. I townread Java. He had like 3 posts, but I townread him. I don't have much of an explanation it's mostly gut with a bit of meta which I know you like.
318: Voting someone does not mean I'm sheeping. There is nothing to indicate I am sheeping (I'm not, and I don't look at the vote counts when I move votes around)
361: Guess what: I move my vote around a lot, and that doesn't mean I'm scum
431: Aristophanes was being weird. He's STILL being weird and I noticed he's not giving a read on me or otherwise talking to me
433: "you only vote him because he suddenly became active" OK? How about I voted him because when he started playing I noticed that he's off from the 2 games I've seen him town in, enough so that he warranted a vote, and still does.
467: It's his tone. He's usually defensive in general but he seems different this time. Again, not much to work with but I pretty strongly believe he's scum (Hint: moreso than I'd think Zach scum, for sure, even though I've talkd about Zach more. Zach is hard to read)
468: You're right, it was a jab at Zach. Again, so what
469: I called it for what it was. If I thought S_S was scum I'd be pushing him, I don't particularly think he's scum
472: The ping had nothing to do with it. Zach is hard to read, and I changed my mind (it was notably a very different day from when I said he was townish) For the record, I'm now back to thinking he's towning, or at least nulltown
474: Don't understand the first part, Second part not sure how it's flimsy or what than entails but ok. Reads like an attack o my character rather than alignment information
478/479: I don't care what you regard the possibility as: Looks pretty clear and viable to me, not sure what makes it unlikely There's nothing for me to respond to, because quite frankly I don't care what you "imagine" scum to be doing

[Dunnstral]

Every time BTD6 posts I want to lynch him more

Like you guys see his post, right?

[Dunnstral]

Like take note of what they're focusing on here

Of all things he focuses on aristophanes, says he's not obvious town. His logic for finding Gamma scum... doesn't seem to make sense?

uhh actually BTD6 summed up my exact thoughts regarding the matter.

[Dunnstral]

I said flimsy because it read as a quick save to cover up the fact that you seemed to have forgotten that it is multi ball.

Why do I "cover up the fact that I seemed to have forgotten this is multiball" as scum?

If anything I'd push it as some sort of town slip - certainly doesn't make me more likely to be scum unless you think I was faking it

[Dunnstral]

Gamma's response was horrible and I do see where that read comes from.

Sure

I can agree that Gamma is scummy

I'd even vote for him

But I also think that BTD6 is scummy

[Dunnstral]

Forgetting it was multiball is pretty much NAI.

Note that I never pushed it otherwise when it happened, but nice to see you taking potshots at me

I seriously doubt my "tunnel" on you is worse than your little obsession with Zach.

When was the last time O talked about Zach, other than replying to you

[Dunnstral]

Also you didn't respond to your own criticisms and instead tried to switch conversation off of you

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

So ready to lynch here

[Dunnstral]

If Gamma is eliminated then it saves me the roller coaster ride of figuring out his alignment.

Not sure how you can say Gamma is harder to figure the alignment of than me, unless you're already on this wild ride

@S_S What does that even mean "LAMIST catch scum"

[Dunnstral]

Overall, I'm still hesitant to change my worried views about you. It seems the people who have shown up today don't view you in the same light as I do. Maybe I'm right. Maybe I'm misguided. Maybe it all comes from two players with very different styles of approaching things. I do think that pushing an issue that the majority doesn't agree with is pointless though. If the majority seems unconcerned by your plays, then I'll move onto other things.

This is mildly scummy, by the way, especially since it's right when I actually fought back against your ill push and you're seemingly over-explaining a vote switch without moving yet, and leaving yourself open to rejoin

[Dunnstral]

Gamma

[Dunnstral]

I am gonna iso then go to bed

Looks like you missed a step

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE:

Starting to get the feeling that this is a mislynch

What...?

What did I do that changed your mind?

Nothing. It's just that nobody but zack seems to mind seeing you get lynched so you're either a mislynch or someone who's getting bussed. I don't want to vote you unless I'm sure which one it is.

>nobody but Zach

There's 2 scum teams of 2... how many people do you expect to "mind" that Gamma gets lynched

[Dunnstral]

Why does it matter to you what zack minds?

*Zach

[Dunnstral]

Odd, considering your vote is on Gamma.

Let's get him

VOTE: Aubrey

[Dunnstral]

When did I say you were worse than btd?

Why not talk about Gamma, by the way?

Yes, I would like to see you gone, since recently (as I've pointed out) you went from voting me to gamma but went off on a mini rant to go back to it later. At this point I know you'll vote whoever has the most votes

I'm also ok with jester being lynched for being parked on me forever

Odd, considering your vote is on Gamma.

Let's get him

VOTE: Aubrey

Opportunistic vote.

This ones better:

VOTE: Gamma

[Dunnstral]

You can't

[Dunnstral]

Don't be dumb

[Dunnstral]

Hi.

VOTE: Dunnstral

First of all, nobody seems to care that jesters been voting me since

post 5

and I've been "suspicious" to him all game long and he's never had another scumread all game?

I'd be more than willing to lynch jester

[Dunnstral]

Actually the first real post of the game

[Dunnstral]

So, I don't think anyone else besides Gamma and Dunn can (or should) realistically be lynched today, based on people's general reads and votes. I'm in partial agreement with Ari in that new counterwagons probably won't happen, and even if they did they'd probably end up being a terrible deadline wagon on town.

After ISOing Gamma and Dunn (these were the 2 main people I wanted to look at), I think lynching Dunn today is better. I don't have a strong read on Gamma, because he's fairly new and for reasons I mentioned before. Essentially, I see a lot of matter-of-factness in his ISO, which is normally good, but he's agreeing with so many people and seems hesitant to produce original thoughts. I don't feel comfortable sorting him without flips.

Dunn seems to be BSing his way through the game. It's not that he has no valid content, it's just that it's all over the place and doesn't contribute to any unified scumhunting picture; it's more like he's trying to not attract attention for any one thing for too long. He's done a whole lot of questionable things and pushed a whole bunch of easy pushes, and I don't expect this read to become more informed with flips like I do with Gamma.

VOTE: Dunnstral

UNVOTE: Gamma.
VOTE: Dunn.

I'm goign to write out some thoughts as I read.

I'm n page 9 right now, holy cow you guys talk alot.... that's... GREAT!

Blackstar seems kinda aggressive but I have more of a null read on him so far.

Jester seems pretty scummy to me at the moment. Hes just sitting in the back acting like a commentator.

Page 10

Not really agreeing with meow's (i know its my slot!) thoughts on Gamma. Jester actually joins the game with post 246

Page 13

I'm seeing some similar commentator actions from Dunn, they have some thoughts on people but don't explain why.

Page 18 (yeah im stating to skim through some pages. I've been reading for more than 2 hours now!)

Holy shit! Some guy name BTD6_maker is in this game? Lurking hard!

Clearly you missed my explanation of my Real Life being busy.

Oh god I just powered through he last of it.

I need more time to read through iso's but here are some current thoughts of where we are at. I'm not down for a gamma vote. Dunn vote im ok with , but would really prefer a jester vote first.

Do you have any reasoning for your Townread on Gamma and scumread on Jester and Dunn?

I'm not sure about a something smart vote yet. I still have a null read with a slight town edge.

I'm just going to post what I have and start participating wher we are at in the game.

VOTE: The-Jester

Overall this is nullish to me.
Other Real Life things are more important right now. However, I should be fine by the start of Day 2.

UNVOTE:

I've unconvinced myself that I am in the right place.

This chain of events feels off to me (not quoted in the right order)

[Dunnstral]

Something_Scummy looks pretty bad right now

[Dunnstral]

Btd6 is fillering and can die any time (though oddly has no stance on me), jester is hardcore coasting on his vote, gamma is just hoping I die instead of him, aubrey openly doesn't care who gets lynched

[Dunnstral]

hold the fuck up

Since I'm more free and more inclined to post here now I'll get into that

For the record I don't like this wagon right now and if anything want Dunnstral to post his reads. It's not that he's a scum impossibility to me, but that the lynch Gamma crowd has suddenly had a convenient revelation that would prompt the wagon switch at the same time and no one is addressing that. Oh, oh, because there's no opposition to the lynch it's so opportunistic and suddenly all of you want to switch?

w o w

, how convenient!

Does no one care? Or are you not caring on purpose? Quite fucking obviously there are strings being pulled.

That is the main factor. The other one is I don't actually have a game with Scum Dunnstral, well technically, but I'm very certain he plays very similar as both alignments. This is key. And there's lynches I'd much rather prefer.

Gamma

himself

hopped on his fucking counterwagon with no shame.

I don't know why people are giving me shit about still wanting to lynch my probably top scumread. Like he should have stopped being scum to me or something. Get the fuck out of here. Sorry guys, I don't fucking make up SRs when convenient to me. I felt strongly about Mimikyu when I voted him. I still feel strongly about it now. If you don't care then say so.

I'm not eyeing you for being opportunistic, I'm eyeing you because I have trouble crediting your misgivings about Aubrey's post as genuine.

Yeah Umlaut, we should just have the same opinions and feel the same way at the same time all the time so everything can be fine? Of what I post, what is the deductive method that allows you to determine what is genuine or not?

I'm actually starting to dislike Zach in #590. He's blamed Dunn for tunnelling him but all he does at this point is talk about Dunn and use it as an excuse not to talk about other stuff. But then he follows with a pretty good point on BTD in #593 so I don't know.

What you're not familiar with is that the norm for myself and Funnstral is to argue for a fuckton of pages and have people bitch at us. I tried to detract from that this game but eventually gave in to the relentless stream of shit. It's my fragile human soul. I can only take so much.

Of the people on Gamma's wagon, if I had to name someone suspicious, it's Jester based on that catch-up, but I'll wait for him to finish it to say what I have to say. The whole Aubrey situation is fucking bizarre because when I state an opinion based on my perception and not even attack or push, I'm in the wrong.


It might be that Fix-it Felix avatar that has my emotions going haywire, but I don't see the fuss about S_S. It looks like he's been shooting straight to me from here.

Yakko's been getting a free pass for not doing shit simply because "I'm scum", which is just dandy, isn't it?. I'm not too fond of when people say I'm scum and don't present their bullshit argument so I can go into precisely how bullshit it is. Please provide me with that common courtesy. Are you gonna say it's a gut read, bud? It doesn't make it any less obvious to anyone if you don't.

If you guys are fine with that I'm not gonna say shit because it's a testament to the amount of fuckery people condone this game. I'd definitely lynch there, though as opposed to these fucking options. BTD does not, to me, give the appearance of that scum who's under pressure. I think in his situation, scum that was trying to slide by would opt to acquiesce and attempt to post heavy content rather than still not doing that and still saying they'll be inactive. That's not someone who's deceiving us IMO.


Vax himself I need to get accustomed to his posts. However MeowMix was a very strong TR of mine and I liked his posts a lot.

What do you think of the fact that over half the player base isn't even willing to address mimikyu?
Like I can make a big list of people who straight up aren't trying to gamesolve with like two days on deadline (coasting harder than me)

My read is that too many people are scummy or awful, no seriously, I'd be willing to lynch over half the game at this point in time, which is very different from how I normally go about things (finding towny people and working my way down) This game nobody is even trying to help town it feels

[Dunnstral]

I don't care about credit. I'm just saying I didn't "jump on my own counterwagon". I feel the counterwagon really started with BlackStar's unvote of me.

This isn't game solving.
This isn't trying to figure things out
This is trying not to get lynched by any means necessary, without actually knowing what the facts were

[Dunnstral]

I have no idea what Dunn meant in #864. Help?

Everyone switched from Gamma to me over seemingly nothing; BTD6 is also ignoring everything

[Dunnstral]

Does a Zach/Dunn scumteam ping for anyone?

Why would I be pushing him if it's multiball anyway and the distancing doesn't matter

Also uh, I'm town too so

[Dunnstral]

If one scum dies, why would you look for the 1 ally hiding in everyone?

Instead of the 2 hiding together

You're just more likely to find scum and better off finding the one (also, even if you find the partner, you're making one side's pr's useless, which doesn't happen if killing 1 from each faction)

That all sounds weird but basically, if one scum flips don't even look for his partner, just kill anyone that's scummy

[Dunnstral]

Progress report: 7/12 reads done.

They're all one-liners

[Dunnstral]

Mimikyu

: Has been doing some

very

intense scumhunting, I feel.

I feel like even Mimikyu will deny this one

[Dunnstral]

Aubrey: He has been doing very good at scumhunting, although he’s been mostly focused on me and BTD6, so that’s something to consider.

We're not playing the same game apparently

[Dunnstral]

You made stuff up and wrote it down is my point

[Dunnstral]

I could lynch Gamma but the lack of counterwagons bothers me.

I'm the counterwagon

[Dunnstral]

And the scum teams are teams of 2 so there'd only be 1 person working with him

[Dunnstral]

And the scum teams are teams of 2 so there'd only be 1 person working with him

This in response to?

jester

[Dunnstral]

These are my reads. They are not strictly ordered by strength, but by order ISOed in each grouping

Spoiler: Reads

Town:

Aubrey

: He has been doing very good at scumhunting, although he’s been mostly focused on me and BTD6, so that’s something to consider.

Hi Im Yakko

: He’s been very blunt and I feel like he’s town for that. However, voting for someone before you are completely caught up is dumb.

Mimikyu

: Has been doing some

very

intense scumhunting, I feel.

BlackStar

: He’s been very confrontational, to the extent that he seems very towny.

SS

: Other than the failed attempt at pressure, I think his posts are pretty good. Has been asking some very good questions.
Null:

BTD6_maker

: I get a whole lot of blah from his posts. Want to see more.

Zach

: I’ve seen towny and scummy posts from this one.
Scum:

MeowMix/Vaxkiller

:VaxKiller hasn’t really done anything alignment indicative, so I have to go by MeowMix, and

holy crap his ISO is bad

. Asking to be best friends with Umlaut is very scummy to me. I also don’t like how he kept focusing on me and BTD6.

TheJester

: Has he had

no

scumreads other than Skold’s slot? Also, catch-up posts don’t really feel fresh, and that has been a sign of scum trying to avoid confrontation before, so there’s that.

Aristophanes

: Seems very passive and neutral. Do not like.

Umlaut

: Many of his posts feel like he is trying to keep the town quiet.

Dunnstral

: As I’ve said before, his early posting was very erratic, and he’s been very opportunistic in his later posts.

After my searching, I feel Umlaut is my strongest scumread,
VOTE: Umlaut
BTW, this was written last night, so it does not include observations from today.

These reads are actually really good. However @Gamma why would you try to start a deadline wagon on Umlaut rather than staying on the already established Dunn wagon?

Really? Because he's factually and objectively wrong:

Aubrey:
1.Aubrey hasn't been "very focused on gamma and BTD6" in fact he barely even talks about BTD6, and has been on me for most of the game (hint: never made a giant wall of text for gamma)
2. "Very good at scumhunting" When you say they were on yourself and the lurker all game? And nobodies flipped?

Hi Im Yakko:
3. OK, I've been very blunt too. Why has this ignored for me, but is a reason to townread Hi Im Yakko?

Mimikyu:
4. I wouldn't say he's been doing "

Very

intense scumhunting" (because he wasn't

BlackStar:
5. See #3. OK, I've been very Confrontational too. Why has this ignored for me, but is a reason to townread BlackStar?

SS:
6. Please point out these very good questions.

BTD6_maker:
7. Note that this guy spent around an hour on this reads list to write "I get a whole lot of blah from his posts. Want to see more."

Zach:
8. Note that this guy spent around an hour on this reads list to write "I’ve seen towny and scummy posts from this one." like what

Meowmix/Vaxkiller:
9. "Asking to be best friends with Umlaut is very scummy to me" And why is that...? How does that add up?
10. "I also don’t like how he kept focusing on me and BTD6." LOL, but you JUST townread Aubrey for "doing a very good job at scumhunting" when in your OWN words you said he focused on you and BTD6 (even though untrue.) So, wow

TheJester:
11. "Catch-up posts feel fresh" Don't expect you to even know what that means, let alone explain it

Aristophanes:
12. Hypocrite

Umlaut:
13. "Many of his posts feel like he is trying to keep the town quiet." Please point out these many posts and what this means

Dunnstral
14: Cognitive Dissonance/You have no reason to switch your votee off me from your story thus far/See #3 and #5



But please, tell me why you thought the reads list was good.

[Dunnstral]

(I'd be voting S_S here, and will be voting S_S once Gamma is dead. Even if they're not the same team, that kind of cognitive dissonance can only come from scum)

[Dunnstral]

But you said his reads list was good. Note that most of that can be read as a reply to him, so when I say "you" in there I'm referring to Gamma

Still, you did say his reads list was good. I pointed out why every single read of his was most certainly not good, so it's interesting that you'd disagree

[Dunnstral]

Well, how many votes are on Dunnstral right now?

1

[Dunnstral]

but if it's the only option other than me I'm okay with lynching him.

lol

[Dunnstral]

About Aristo: tell me how I've been passive and neutral. I bet you can't, because I haven't.

Literally your reads on BTD6 and Zach in that post

Remember when I flipped out on Zach for the tangent on BlackStar?

No



Doesn't sound important anyway

About Aubrey and Vax: I didn't say I townread Aubrey for focusing on me and BTD, in fact, that's a detractor from that townread.

Not gonna address the fact that Aubrey hasn't at all been focused on BTD6?

[Dunnstral]

Nevermind Gamma is obvious scum right now

Other people read my points please

Zach don't ignore me

[Dunnstral]

On Dunnstral:

VOTE: Ümläüt

VOTE: Ümläüt

Porque? Don't give me the "I don't do analysis" bit either. Please and thank you.

Well nobody else really reacted to the vote

Let's just say I was slightly irked by the post before my vote






VOTE: MeowMix

How many more votes do we need here?

I think Zach might be town


Let's get

VOTE: Aristophanes

This guy looks bad for real

Lurking is anti-Town.

You've literally lurked in every game I've ever seen you in






VOTE: BTD6_maker

4 posts where he changes his vote. Wishy washy much?

Sure, but I do that as town all the time. If you had finished at least 1 game with me where I was town you'd know (or you know, just say it so I can point this out earlier. You can look at any of my town games.)

Something_Scummy is whiteknighting harder than Zach usually does while trying to be on the down-low about it

Seems to be throwing shade on Zach.

Zach, why are you refusing to give your reads out of curiosity? I have a townie read from you based on your defense of gamma. I doubt the two of you are scum aligned. If you two were scum, I wouldn't understand Gamma's defense of Skold earlier. From that point of view I would assume your intentions Regarding that defense was town driven vs. scum driven. long story short, I think you have a strong town possibility so I'm interested in your reads. Refusing to give reads doesn't make a lot of sense.

This? I don't currently scumread Gamma and I don't currently townread Zach and I think it's dumb and/or wrong but I don't think you're scummy

Zach makes his reads clear as town, too, even if he doesn't come out and say it he'll be white knighting people

That's why it's rather odd that he jumped onto BTD6 so fast (though I do think BTD6 is scum, too, so it could be a bus move)

Didn't he say he thought Zach was town?

And of course: he has been extremely opportunistic. He has admitted to attempting to manipulate Aubrey even.

It's not throwing shade on Zach... at least, not at his alignment in this game. It's just not.

I already explained my read on Zach was changing

Last part is untrue, and that's all that really needs to be said

[Dunnstral]

Why would you self vote?

[Dunnstral]

Incidentally, all of MeowMix's, BTD6's and Java's inactivity appear to be sitewide (their most recent posts are in this thread), so I don't think too much should be read into it.

Dunnstral, on the other hand, is being uncharacteristically quiet. He had 199 posts in day 1 of the first game I played with him and I believe he has a reputation for spamming the shit out of his games in general. Not sure whether this holds in his scum games as well since I have no meta there, but maybe someone else does?

VOTE: Dunnstral

Actually in agreement with Gamma here about the opportunism. Eyeing Zach as well.

So, I don't think anyone else besides Gamma and Dunn can (or should) realistically be lynched today, based on people's general reads and votes. I'm in partial agreement with Ari in that new counterwagons probably won't happen, and even if they did they'd probably end up being a terrible deadline wagon on town.

After ISOing Gamma and Dunn (these were the 2 main people I wanted to look at), I think lynching Dunn today is better. I don't have a strong read on Gamma, because he's fairly new and for reasons I mentioned before. Essentially, I see a lot of matter-of-factness in his ISO, which is normally good, but he's agreeing with so many people and seems hesitant to produce original thoughts. I don't feel comfortable sorting him without flips.

Dunn seems to be BSing his way through the game. It's not that he has no valid content, it's just that it's all over the place and doesn't contribute to any unified scumhunting picture; it's more like he's trying to not attract attention for any one thing for too long. He's done a whole lot of questionable things and pushed a whole bunch of easy pushes, and I don't expect this read to become more informed with flips like I do with Gamma.

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Dunnstral]

Didn't I get to L-1 with both scum factions voting em too?

Guess what I'm town

Gamma is dumb for self voting, I had no clue BTD6 hsd fake hammered and myself assumed he was hammered and town, I'd have switched to trying to get S_S lynched

[Dunnstral]

These are my reads. They are not strictly ordered by strength, but by order ISOed in each grouping

Spoiler: Reads

Town:

Aubrey

: He has been doing very good at scumhunting, although he’s been mostly focused on me and BTD6, so that’s something to consider.

Hi Im Yakko

: He’s been very blunt and I feel like he’s town for that. However, voting for someone before you are completely caught up is dumb.

Mimikyu

: Has been doing some

very

intense scumhunting, I feel.

BlackStar

: He’s been very confrontational, to the extent that he seems very towny.

SS

: Other than the failed attempt at pressure, I think his posts are pretty good. Has been asking some very good questions.
Null:

BTD6_maker

: I get a whole lot of blah from his posts. Want to see more.

Zach

: I’ve seen towny and scummy posts from this one.
Scum:

MeowMix/Vaxkiller

:VaxKiller hasn’t really done anything alignment indicative, so I have to go by MeowMix, and

holy crap his ISO is bad

. Asking to be best friends with Umlaut is very scummy to me. I also don’t like how he kept focusing on me and BTD6.

TheJester

: Has he had

no

scumreads other than Skold’s slot? Also, catch-up posts don’t really feel fresh, and that has been a sign of scum trying to avoid confrontation before, so there’s that.

Aristophanes

: Seems very passive and neutral. Do not like.

Umlaut

: Many of his posts feel like he is trying to keep the town quiet.

Dunnstral

: As I’ve said before, his early posting was very erratic, and he’s been very opportunistic in his later posts.

After my searching, I feel Umlaut is my strongest scumread,
VOTE: Umlaut
BTW, this was written last night, so it does not include observations from today.

These reads are actually really good. However @Gamma why would you try to start a deadline wagon on Umlaut rather than staying on the already established Dunn wagon?

Really? Because he's factually and objectively wrong:

Aubrey:
1.Aubrey hasn't been "very focused on gamma and BTD6" in fact he barely even talks about BTD6, and has been on me for most of the game (hint: never made a giant wall of text for gamma)
2. "Very good at scumhunting" When you say they were on yourself and the lurker all game? And nobodies flipped?

Hi Im Yakko:
3. OK, I've been very blunt too. Why has this ignored for me, but is a reason to townread Hi Im Yakko?

Mimikyu:
4. I wouldn't say he's been doing "

Very

intense scumhunting" (because he wasn't

BlackStar:
5. See #3. OK, I've been very Confrontational too. Why has this ignored for me, but is a reason to townread BlackStar?

SS:
6. Please point out these very good questions.

BTD6_maker:
7. Note that this guy spent around an hour on this reads list to write "I get a whole lot of blah from his posts. Want to see more."

Zach:
8. Note that this guy spent around an hour on this reads list to write "I’ve seen towny and scummy posts from this one." like what

Meowmix/Vaxkiller:
9. "Asking to be best friends with Umlaut is very scummy to me" And why is that...? How does that add up?
10. "I also don’t like how he kept focusing on me and BTD6." LOL, but you JUST townread Aubrey for "doing a very good job at scumhunting" when in your OWN words you said he focused on you and BTD6 (even though untrue.) So, wow

TheJester:
11. "Catch-up posts feel fresh" Don't expect you to even know what that means, let alone explain it

Aristophanes:
12. Hypocrite

Umlaut:
13. "Many of his posts feel like he is trying to keep the town quiet." Please point out these many posts and what this means

Dunnstral
14: Cognitive Dissonance/You have no reason to switch your votee off me from your story thus far/See #3 and #5



But please, tell me why you thought the reads list was good.

What?

I never said I agreed with his reasons, if that's what you're referring to.

Additionally, this is not a conversation between scum. Like, S_S had no defense against what I said, and if I would have been voting him except I was voting for agreeing with that stuff and not being able to explain it except I voted for the guy who said that stuff in the first place (Hint: Even if he was town, he could only even refute maybe 5 of the 14 points)

[Dunnstral]

2) if you SR Umlaut I'd rather not rely on your judgement anyway(@Gamma)

Why did you townread Umlaut?

[Dunnstral]

Moving on to analysis of the two:

Spoiler: Something_Scum

mkay

VOTE: MeowMix

oh also UNVOTE:

VOTE: something_smart

Why?

BlackStar how exactly would you have expected me to draw out MeowMix?

You think he chose to flake out because nobody made a case on him?

You pointed out my posts engaging Gamma, Aubrey, Zach, Dunn, and Ari. That's how I pressure people.

I can't do that if the person I'm pressuring is absent.

Why are you projecting what you think is the correct way to pressure someone onto me?

Do you think what you're doing is more effective?

Oh and you know how you're able to engage with me?

BECAUSE I'M NOT LURKING OUT

This looks kind of awkward for an interaction with the Meowmix slot? But maybe that's what he was going for. Definitely catches my eye now

Spoiler: Umlaut

VOTE: BTD6_maker

History suggests I'll be trying to get him lynched at some point today so I might as well get it over with.

I agree Aubrey's entry felt awkward but I'm chalking it up to new-player weirdness.

VOTE: The_Jester
I like Skold's reasoning for this.

@Gamma

Is your name Blackstar?

VOTE: Mimikyu

I just don't see what could have happened within Aubrey's few posts on page 4 to change Mimikyu's read like that, yet Mimikyu says it's because he "hear[d] more and [got] more information." Aubrey's 91 in particular struck me as towny if anything. He is being quite transparent in his reasoning process and explaining himself clearly. I wish he didn't have quite so many null-reads but it looks as if he is at least trying to sort them.

The interaction of 80, 84, 85 pings me as well.

• Mimikyu seems to misunderstand what Aubrey means by "slanted eyes" and talks as if it means people are sheeping Blackstar
  
• Aubrey explains what he means
  
• Mimikyu responds: "You said he was getting slanted eyes due to his quick assessment of you, and AFAIK I am the only one who did so for that reason," as if that's what he meant all along, when he clearly didn't.

This reads to me as a scum attempt to appear consistent.

I'm a bit suspicious of Blackstar as well but in my past experience (Newbie 1661, Blitz 15) he's looked pretty scummy as town and been an easy mislynch. It's relatively old meta, and it doesn't mean he's town this time, but I'm going to need more than one bad case to read him on.

VOTE: BlackStar

His latest posts are just awful. I particularly dislike 158. Zach's critique is perfectly clear and certainly not nonsense regardless of how much he dislikes it.

VOTE: Mimikyu

This is a good vote for two reasons.

First, he's scummy. His stated positions are all over the place. He makes me his top scumread based apparently on one vote on Jester (this is the only reason he's giving, and when asked to explain his read he says "look at my posts"). He thinks that Aubrey is scummy, Blackstar is scummy for scumreading Aubrey, that anyone attacking Blackstar is scummy. He's eager to argue about minutiae (refused to let me drop the topic of "is rejecting townreads a towntell") but reluctant to sell his actual reads.

(Interestingly, his reversal on Aubrey and scumread on MeowMix both came right after they said they had a problem with Gamma. It's obviously too early to seriously hunt for associations but I want to note this for future reference.)

Secondly, he's given a lot of general opinions on good and bad ways to scumhunt, and if he's scum I wouldn't be surprised if some of these "bad ways" are the ones that would point to him

or his teammate.

-----

On an off-topic note, anyone who finds Zach abrasive can't have played many games here. I had to go back to see what you were talking about.

-----

Pedit:

Gamma, why did you quote my post there? Your question has nothing to do with it really.

Also, no I don't.

"Frustrated lynchbait" is exactly how I feel right now.

Sorry Zach, you're on your own with Mimikyu now.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Anyone not voting Gamma, ask yourself if this is how a town player self-identifies.

VOTE: Dunnstral

Actually in agreement with Gamma here about the opportunism. Eyeing Zach as well.

hold the fuck up

Since I'm more free and more inclined to post here now I'll get into that

For the record I don't like this wagon right now and if anything want Dunnstral to post his reads. It's not that he's a scum impossibility to me, but that the lynch Gamma crowd has suddenly had a convenient revelation that would prompt the wagon switch at the same time and no one is addressing that. Oh, oh, because there's no opposition to the lynch it's so opportunistic and suddenly all of you want to switch?

w o w

, how convenient!

Does no one care? Or are you not caring on purpose? Quite fucking obviously there are strings being pulled.

That is the main factor. The other one is I don't actually have a game with Scum Dunnstral, well technically, but I'm very certain he plays very similar as both alignments. This is key. And there's lynches I'd much rather prefer.

Gamma

himself

hopped on his fucking counterwagon with no shame.

I don't know why people are giving me shit about still wanting to lynch my probably top scumread. Like he should have stopped being scum to me or something. Get the fuck out of here. Sorry guys, I don't fucking make up SRs when convenient to me. I felt strongly about Mimikyu when I voted him. I still feel strongly about it now. If you don't care then say so.

I'm not eyeing you for being opportunistic, I'm eyeing you because I have trouble crediting your misgivings about Aubrey's post as genuine.

Yeah Umlaut, we should just have the same opinions and feel the same way at the same time all the time so everything can be fine? Of what I post, what is the deductive method that allows you to determine what is genuine or not?

I'm actually starting to dislike Zach in #590. He's blamed Dunn for tunnelling him but all he does at this point is talk about Dunn and use it as an excuse not to talk about other stuff. But then he follows with a pretty good point on BTD in #593 so I don't know.

What you're not familiar with is that the norm for myself and Funnstral is to argue for a fuckton of pages and have people bitch at us. I tried to detract from that this game but eventually gave in to the relentless stream of shit. It's my fragile human soul. I can only take so much.

Of the people on Gamma's wagon, if I had to name someone suspicious, it's Jester based on that catch-up, but I'll wait for him to finish it to say what I have to say. The whole Aubrey situation is fucking bizarre because when I state an opinion based on my perception and not even attack or push, I'm in the wrong.


It might be that Fix-it Felix avatar that has my emotions going haywire, but I don't see the fuss about S_S. It looks like he's been shooting straight to me from here.

Yakko's been getting a free pass for not doing shit simply because "I'm scum", which is just dandy, isn't it?. I'm not too fond of when people say I'm scum and don't present their bullshit argument so I can go into precisely how bullshit it is. Please provide me with that common courtesy. Are you gonna say it's a gut read, bud? It doesn't make it any less obvious to anyone if you don't.

If you guys are fine with that I'm not gonna say shit because it's a testament to the amount of fuckery people condone this game. I'd definitely lynch there, though as opposed to these fucking options. BTD does not, to me, give the appearance of that scum who's under pressure. I think in his situation, scum that was trying to slide by would opt to acquiesce and attempt to post heavy content rather than still not doing that and still saying they'll be inactive. That's not someone who's deceiving us IMO.


Vax himself I need to get accustomed to his posts. However MeowMix was a very strong TR of mine and I liked his posts a lot.

What does this mean for your read on me?

This is something really special.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Umlaut is kind of all over the place. He votes both Gamma and I while we're near lynch threshhold.

I think some of his interactions with BlackStar seemed weird? I was feeling like BlackStar was town but kind of getting associative tells I'll go more into

Might also be Mimikyu, that push was weird and he never really committed to it, but on the other hand he could have moved off to join the largest wagon

[Dunnstral]

I realize I'm posting a lot of times in a row, but we've got a lot of information to go through

Werewolves killed Umlaut, Mafia killed S_S

Despite being scum, both teams would have had reasons for making these kills, and I think it's worth looking at what they were pushing as well (even if they're scum, it's still multiball)

I took a look at Blackstar:

Spoiler:

Umlaut was scum in my first game here, so he's probably scum again now

VOTE: umlaut

VOTE: Aubrey I don't like your initial posts. They just feel so fake

Nothing I've done is opportunistic

Yeah, I can see Umlaut being scum.

VOTE: umlaut

I don't understand why you're doing nothing but taking pot shots at me. It's really annoying

Seriously though, stop doing this passive aggressive shit and just stick to stating facts.

Then I'll probably pass on reading your posts from now on.

@umlaut Calling people dipshits, passive aggressively casting shade on people and acting way too smug isn't abrasive?

Yeah, I've probably played more games than you too. Doesn't change the fact that it's still annoying when people do it. Especially when those people tend to be wrong about everything

VOTE: gamma

UNVOTE:

Yeah, I'm really starting to distrust Dunn.
VOTE: Dunnstral

I don't trust you. You're just sheeping every wagon that forms.

do you find gamma or btd more scummy

BTD. That's why I'm voting him

@Blackstar, what are you thoughts on Dunn? I'd like something more than just null as well. If he is, I'd like to know why.

He's being really reactionary and doesn't care how he looks, so he's probably town.

I'm down with it too

VOTE: gamma

That's what I was saying; you and BTD have been pushed into the forefront, which I feel makes you harder to read.
Whereas Ari, Umlaut and MeowMix, the players I do believe ought to be pressured, have slipped into the background.

So put pressure on them. You don't need our permission

Do you scumread Something_Smart?

I don't see why you guys scum read Dunnstral

Wow you are being really dumb dude
Flaunting it in our faces makes you look scummy.

Which is exactly why scum wouldn't do it

UNVOTE:

Starting to get the feeling that this is a mislynch

VOTE: something_smart

VOTE: something_smart

Why?

I started thinking about this part again and how strange it was that you were so hesitant to place down a vote and thought you couldn't do it if everyone was busy talking about other stuff.

That's what I was saying; you and BTD have been pushed into the forefront, which I feel makes you harder to read.
Whereas Ari, Umlaut and MeowMix, the players I do believe ought to be pressured, have slipped into the background.

So put pressure on them. You don't need our permission

That's what I was saying; you and BTD have been pushed into the forefront, which I feel makes you harder to read.
Whereas Ari, Umlaut and MeowMix, the players I do believe ought to be pressured, have slipped into the background.

So put pressure on them. You don't need our permission

^

That's what I was saying; you and BTD have been pushed into the forefront, which I feel makes you harder to read.
Whereas Ari, Umlaut and MeowMix, the players I do believe ought to be pressured, have slipped into the background.

So put pressure on them. You don't need our permission

QFT

mkay

VOTE: MeowMix

You said that meowmix was fading into the background and you thought he deserved some pressure on him. Let's look and see how you applied pressure.

mkay

VOTE: MeowMix

i have no fucking words for you

then talk to me about him! there's a reason I asked if my head was up my butt.

why do you townread Meow?

You never did address that little question mark SS.

I wasn't sure what it meant lol

the two statements you quoted were not necessarily connected; the second question was more of a general "why are my reads so different from everyone else's?" and pertained to my solid reads and not my Zach/Dunn ones which are mostly gut.

Why was your early game obvtown?

Wow you are being really dumb dude
Flaunting it in our faces makes you look scummy.

I hate this post so much.

Gamma have you ever seen LAMIST actually catch scum?

uhh actually BTD6 summed up my exact thoughts regarding the matter.

oh also UNVOTE:

It looks to me like you didn't actually talk about meowmix at all or do anything that would draw him out and make him start posting more. It seems like you just wanted to look like you were doing something and then didn't follow through with what you said at all. There's no point in a member of the town voting for someone and doing nothing with that vote. It's more beneficial for scum to park a vote the way that you did. So I think that's kind of suspicious

What do you think of something_smart?

VOTE: gamma

Now I think I shouldn't have left this wagon

He votes both Umlaut and S_S but doesn't really "push" either of them, instead opting to go after BTD6 and Gamma. At least that's how I see it, he doesn't push me and kind of defends me. I can kind of see BlackStar as being on either team and want to hear his thoughts now

[Dunnstral]

Actually I have a question: Do you guys think scum would try to specifically figure out who's scum on the other faction and try to kill them?

[Dunnstral]

Actually I have a question: Do you guys think scum would try to specifically figure out who's scum on the other faction and try to kill them?

Isn't it better for them to lynch the other scum team and nk town?

So do you think it's worth looking into what s_s/umlaut were pushing?

The respective scum factions would have killed them without knowing/thinking they were scum (this is an assumption, of course) which means they would have had other motivations for killing them

I don't remember the part where I voted umlaut though

ASide from the rvs vote at the start, you voted him again later on and here are some of the events happening around when you voted him:

Spoiler:

Incidentally, all of MeowMix's, BTD6's and Java's inactivity appear to be sitewide (their most recent posts are in this thread), so I don't think too much should be read into it.

Dunnstral, on the other hand, is being uncharacteristically quiet. He had 199 posts in day 1 of the first game I played with him and I believe he has a reputation for spamming the shit out of his games in general. Not sure whether this holds in his scum games as well since I have no meta there, but maybe someone else does?

(Not that I'm complaining about not having to deal with a 50-page monstrosity of a D1)

And speaking of early strong scumreads:

VOTE: Skold

Okay, so this is scum. I legit scumread every post they've made thus far. Something is just wrong here and it is the colour of their role PM.

Join me!

You haven't really talked at all about this read since you gave it on page 2. Can you go into more detail and also say how this read has progressed since then?

-----

Pedit: Aubrey, I'm about to go to lunch and haven't really thought much about Jester lately, I'll answer you in a bit.

Mixed feelings on Jester. I didn't like his intro as I already said. I pretty much agreed with his thoughts in 68 and his thoughts on Aubrey/Mimikyu. His 190 at first seems like a reach to me but I don't see any reason scum!Jester would reach for a reason to scumread Aubrey at that point when he hasn't been so much as leaning scum there before, so it's probably a genuine opinion (though could of course be a genuine wolfread from mafia or vice-versa).

Overall null, which is annoying because I kind of expected to form a stronger opinion there.

VOTE: Zachstralkita

I've seen this guy as town quite a bit and let me tell you... he's not town this game

40% chance of being right

I'd like to hear a more in depth analysis on this from you.

Pretty damn confirmed. Found a scumteam guys.

Lets hear it then.

Where is Javajoe26 and BTD6_Maker? One could almost forget they are part of this game.

In depth analysis isn't exactly my forte

I think he's playing like he does as scum in this game

What was addressed was that BlackStar strawmanned and deflected what Umlaut conveyed better in #176 than apparently I have in all my posts. I'm quite sure we all know how " strong " his scumread is. No one is feigning ignorance of anything at this point.

Keep using random buzzwords, pal

Incidentally, all of MeowMix's, BTD6's and Java's inactivity appear to be sitewide (their most recent posts are in this thread), so I don't think too much should be read into it.

Dunnstral, on the other hand, is being uncharacteristically quiet. He had 199 posts in day 1 of the first game I played with him and I believe he has a reputation for spamming the shit out of his games in general. Not sure whether this holds in his scum games as well since I have no meta there, but maybe someone else does?

I don't post less as scum
You called me out in tic tac toe mafia too for "being too analytical"

Spoiler tag removed
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=67083
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=66931
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=66795

If you're still wondering, take a look at my post counts across those games

Okay, enough. This has gone on for FAR too long. I don't really find BlackStar's actions that suspicious, but I definitely find Zachstralkita to be. He keeps trying to derail the discussion onto BlackStar. I don't see any reason town would try to do this.
VOTE: Zach

This is a weird and dramatic post

That's not how anything works, and you don't decide when something starts or stops.

VOTE: Zachstralkita

Just to reiterate: I think Zach is a member of an anti-town faction that opposes the town

Zach looks town to me and his argument with BlackStar looks TvT after rereading.

Not a huge fan of Gamma and Dunnstral.

Liking Mimikyu and MeowMix.

I don't see the motivation behind Dunnstral's vote on Zach (besides his early meta read which isn't worth much imo).
Like, the only thing I agree with him on is his comment about Gamma's vote but he's not the first person to point it out.

Dunn hasn't adressed any specific parts of Zach's ISO and doesn't seem to have read the game much:

What was addressed was that BlackStar strawmanned and deflected what Umlaut conveyed better in #176 than apparently I have in all my posts. I'm quite sure we all know how " strong " his scumread is. No one is feigning ignorance of anything at this point.

Keep using random buzzwords, pal

These "random buzzwords" was Zach paraphasing Umlaut's #176, which is even written in the quote you've provided. I don't get what you were trying to do here, make Zach look incompetent?

VOTE: Dunnstral

I know I'm one to talk but wow you guys have effectively done nothing

It seems you have picked up on this, but yes you don't have much of a right to say that. You had an opportunity to do something when you came in and instead sheeped Gamma.

Still dislike Umlaut; he's scum. Don't like Aubrey, but coming around to him as potentially town that just annoys me. On board with others on Zach being possible scum. He can have time to shape up though. Don't care for MeowMix's re-entrance. Comes in like he's doing something, but just starts a new wagon on someone with no real suspicion. Makes no effort to comment on anything else that has happened.

Yeah, I can see Umlaut being scum.

VOTE: umlaut

In other news BlackStar votes Umlaut for being competent.

I don't understand why you're doing nothing but taking pot shots at me. It's really annoying

@umlaut Calling people dipshits, passive aggressively casting shade on people and acting way too smug isn't abrasive?

@umlaut Calling people dipshits, passive aggressively casting shade on people and acting way too smug isn't abrasive?

"Too smug" is kind of a judgment call.

And yeah I guess it is, but I'm pretty desensitized to it by now. You've been on MS exactly as long as I have, aren't you?

Yeah, I've probably played more games than you too. Doesn't change the fact that it's still annoying when people do it. Especially when those people tend to be wrong about everything

You kind of just say "yeah he could be scum" without going into why you voted him (I quoted things related to him from before you voted)
Then you don't really push him but instead get into a little slapfight with him

On the other hand, this reminds me that Zach tends to like to hard defend his scum buddies as scum, rather than bus them. I could definitely see Zach as mafia with Umlaut

[Dunnstral]

I don't think Day talk for scum has to be announced outside of Normal/Newbie game queues, right? Main post doesn't say anything about it, but it's a possibility?

Not too important as both teams are down to one member from here on out, but I was kind of looking at the way they voted me and then Gamma and was wondering if they were likely to have their partner on the other wagon to try to distance? Or Voting someone completely different

like mimikyu

[Dunnstral]

Actually Dunn, I'm pleased to see I'm not the only one you've addressed. You've upgraded from crack to like.. coke.

I barely mentioned you compared to the rest of the stuff I wrote out, and what I wrote was justified

I wasn't acting looney either, I was getting voted by and pushed by scum

and aubrey, gamma

all of day 1 and I actually brought up what I feel to be very strong evidence against something_smart (I would have definitely been pushing him today)

Do you still think Mimikyu is scum?

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler: Mimikyu

I agree Aubrey's entry felt awkward but I'm chalking it up to new-player weirdness.

VOTE: The_Jester
I like Skold's reasoning for this.

What could you have liked about that reasoning?

VOTE: Umlaut

Wow, a lot more activity has occurred right out the gate than I was expecting in comparison to my previous game. Any who, usually the day starts out with RVP and just getting feelers for people in general, so It'll be more interesting once everyone has confirmed.

Who talks like this? We all now how RVS works so there's literally no point to this post at all. It's just fluff designed to look positive.

Impeccable reasoning Blackstar. I'll sheep that hard.
VOTE: umlaut
Heads up I don't scumhunt because it's stupid and leads to basically random lynches. I'm warming to town read into PoE but that could be a symptom of positivity bias that suggests because when I town read someone I am statistically likely to be right, I end up believing my townreads are accurate.

So basically your goal is to just locate townies, and by process of elimination locate the mafia/werewolves? Why not just do both (Scumhunt and Friendhunt)? In a game like this, one needs to do both in order to be successful to me. At least that how I go about it. To just locate townies (without considering the scum motivations) seems like an excuse in order to avoid certain conversations.

And then you try again to look overly townie with that "one needs to do this in order to be successful" part. There's more than one way to play Mafia and it's weird that you're trying to doubt cast someone just because they do things differently from you

Going after the low-hanging fruit much? Anything to add that isn't just an elaborate parrot?

Okay, I believe it's time to start RQS. I'll be taking three suggested questions this time, so think of something that could help advance the game.
1: What is your preferred faction: Town or Mafia?
2: What role interests you the most? Does not have to be in this setup.
3: What do you think the differing factions will do to town's chances?
4: REQUEST SLOT
5: REQUEST SLOT

1. Mafia. Way more fun and you essentially control your own destiny,
2. Cop. So powerful, but very difficult to play correctly.
3. Depends on how town handles it.

Overall:
I like Ari and Gamma. Don't like Skold, BlackStar, or Umlaut.

I think this is a towntell (scum is happy to accept a townread for whatever reason it's given)

Eh, I would argue that a player almost always gains MORE towncred by criticizing someone's townread of them. You can accept the single townread or you can critique it and receive multiple others.

I am now less convinced of Aubrey being town. Feels more like tryhard scum at this point.

A towntell doesn't become a scumtell just because it can be faked, it becomes a weaker towntell or at worst null.

Granted that scum can criticize townreads on them as well (I just saw this in Micro 635 in fact). It's still

more likely

to come from town.

Well it's not that it's a towntell becoming a scumtell. It's just a faux-towntell in the first place. I disagree that it's more likely to come from town. Town like being townread too.

Well, you're wrong in this case but I'm not going to keep arguing the point.

Incidentally, RQS is garbage and I'm not going to humor it. The effect of giving everyone a survey to answer is that it saves everyone from having to find their own way to break the ice. Manner of entrance is the best/only way to form reads in the very early game, and having everyone enter in the same manner spoils that.

Well you can't argue it because you don't have evidence. Simple enough. No one should be giving any credit either way for interactions like that. That's a terrible way to find town or scum.

Mimikyu, I want to drop the point because it's not worth arguing about unless Aubrey is a serious suspect and will only distract from actual scumhunting, not because I don't have a case to make.

Trying to paint my willingness to drop the point as surrender looks bad for you, as does trying to force a scumread on Aubrey even while you take Blackstar to task for doing the same.

I'm not trying to paint it as surrender, but pointing out it would have been futile if you didn't. And I'm not particularly concerned with how you think something looks for me, especially since I don't think you're town.

Regarding your last point, it's almost as if reads can change as we hear more and get more information.

VOTE: Mimikyu

I just don't see what could have happened within Aubrey's few posts on page 4 to change Mimikyu's read like that, yet Mimikyu says it's because he "hear[d] more and [got] more information." Aubrey's 91 in particular struck me as towny if anything. He is being quite transparent in his reasoning process and explaining himself clearly. I wish he didn't have quite so many null-reads but it looks as if he is at least trying to sort them.

It doesn't take much to change a read early in the game. Aubrey had two large posts on page 4 that both pinged me a bit for different reasons.

The interaction of 80, 84, 85 pings me as well.

• Mimikyu seems to misunderstand what Aubrey means by "slanted eyes" and talks as if it means people are sheeping Blackstar
  This is not what happened at all. He seemed to lump other people in with me as if they were all suspicious of Blackstar for his suspicion of Aubrey, when in actuality I was the only one that expressed this particular sentiment. I'm not sure what you even think I could have meant. In no world did I think people were sheeping BlackStar.
  
• Aubrey explains what he means
  
• Mimikyu responds: "You said he was getting slanted eyes due to his quick assessment of you, and AFAIK I am the only one who did so for that reason," as if that's what he meant all along, when he clearly didn't.

This is not what happened at all. He seemed to lump other people in with me as if they were all suspicious of Blackstar for his suspicion of Aubrey, when in actuality I was the only one that expressed this particular sentiment. I'm not sure what you even think I could have meant. In no world did I think people were sheeping BlackStar nor does my comment state that. I even said that the people didn't feel it was scummy like Blackstar did. Clearly not sheeping.

This reads to me as a scum attempt to appear consistent.

Am I trying to appear consistent? I thought I was explicitly wavering and changing my reads.

It doesn't take much to change a read early in the game. Aubrey had two large posts on page 4 that both pinged me a bit for different reasons

Can you share those reasons?

I already pointed out some of these things, but the generalizing slanted eyes comment, disliking the Gamma questions, the awkward explanation on his "newness", several "obv" statements for towncred ("Just because someone likes to play scum doesn't mean that they are immediately going to be more likely to become a disengaged townie.").

This is not what happened at all. He seemed to lump other people in with me as if they were all suspicious of Blackstar for his suspicion of Aubrey, when in actuality I was the only one that expressed this particular sentiment. I'm not sure what you even think I could have meant. In no world did I think people were sheeping BlackStar nor does my comment state that. I even said that the people didn't feel it was scummy like Blackstar did. Clearly not sheeping.

I wasn't saying you thought people were sheeping Blackstar, I was saying you argued with Aubrey as if you thought he said people were agreeing with Blackstar (by pointing out that they weren't).

Oh I mean I definitely didn't think that. He seemed to imply people were suspicious of Blackstar, I commented that people actually agreed with his feeling that Aubrey was awkward, but disagreed with the suspicion. This stance feels far from suspicion to me.

Keep in mind ping =/= inherently scummy action. It has a lot to do with gut and encouraging others to review and see if they feel the same. I have a feeling it's going to be trouble getting the town to lynch someone like you, since people are often intimidated by those who put a lot of time into their posts. Thankfully the town isn't required for you to die in this setup.

As for why I think Umlaut isn't town, I think you can read my posts and figure out exactly how I feel. Holding your hand won't be necessary.

2. The point is it gets people talking. Talking about anything is better than talking about nothing. Someone says their favorite is mafia, they are more likely to become disengaged as town.

Here's where you're wrong. Noise is noise.

I don't agree. Many of the games I've lost as town involved lurkers being allowed to lurk before we finally lynched them and they were town. These questions can at least get people talking that otherwise might be less involved. Gives us something to engage them on.

Let's go Bayesian with this.

If you took every scenario where you held a read as strong as your current read on Aubrey, what percent of the time do you expect that person would actually flip scum?

(I wouldn't call a read 10/10 unless that number were damn close to 100%.)

This conversation is dumb as hell. It's just a slight scum lean and you all keep blowing this out of proportion. I don't know why you're all up in arms about a scum lean. Jesus Christ...

Agree. That line of questioning is trash. Strength of scumread vs. chance of being scum is not some graph you can chart on. Especially this early on, it's mostly gut and we're arguing semantics.

Still dislike Umlaut; he's scum.

Page 8 is way too soon to have a strong scumread, but page 10 is just right.

Who spoke of strength?

Don't care for MeowMix's re-entrance. Comes in like he's doing something, but just starts a new wagon on someone with no real suspicion. Makes no effort to comment on anything else that has happened.

MeowMix's entrance didn't exactly give me a warm feeling but it did give me a new perspective on Gamma, which qualifies as "doing something." Re. "no effort to comment on anything else," do you actually believe this is a scumtell?

For MeowMix it doesn't feel good. It feels like someone entering the game, pretending to be an active participant, but avoiding getting involved with anything with any real weight.

Who spoke of strength?

You said flatly "He's scum." That means you think I'm probably scum, though you seem pretty uninterested in making this case. See 120 where you're just like "read my other posts" when Aubrey asks you to explain your read.

It's still early. I still think strong words are better for reactions than sitting closer to the fence.

For MeowMix it doesn't feel good. It feels like someone entering the game, pretending to be an active participant, but avoiding getting involved with anything with any real weight.

For MeowMix

it doesn't feel good? But, what, for someone else it might?

In general, do you find effort to be alignment-indicative? Because I don't.

No of course not, but this has little to do with effort. It has to do with the illusion of effort.

What would you rather them talk about if you have agreed with Dunnstral in the fact that previous talks have been a big fat nothing? I see nothing wrong with them trying to progress the game further with a new take on something. The only thing I think they could go into more detail on is who they think maybe townies up until this point.

What is their new take?

VOTE: Mimikyu

This is a good vote for two reasons.

First, he's scummy. His stated positions are all over the place. He makes me his top scumread based apparently on one vote on Jester (this is the only reason he's giving, and when asked to explain his read he says "look at my posts"). He thinks that Aubrey is scummy, Blackstar is scummy for scumreading Aubrey, that anyone attacking Blackstar is scummy. He's eager to argue about minutiae (refused to let me drop the topic of "is rejecting townreads a towntell") but reluctant to sell his actual reads.

I'm concerned you don't know what it looks like when someone thinks another is scum.

I'm concerned you don't know what it looks like when someone thinks another is scum.

I read this like 50 times and I have no idea what you're getting at.

He makes me his top scumread based apparently on one vote on Jester (this is the only reason he's giving, and when asked to explain his read he says "look at my posts"). He thinks that Aubrey is scummy, Blackstar is scummy for scumreading Aubrey, that anyone attacking Blackstar is scummy.

According to this I think everyone is scum which is a terrible misrep.

Please remove the statements you don't believe:

• Aubrey is scummy
  
• BlackStar is scummy

Everyone who has attacked BlackStar is scummy

What is the basis for your read on me. You're not accomplishing anything except being vague. And doubtcasting meowmix, and taking no real stance on mostly everything else save for Umlaut.

For me it has a good bit to do with gut. Usually when people have your kind of abrasive style, I've seen certain things accompany it as each alignment. As town, it's likely due to being overconfident, but I don't actually feel that controlling confidence from you. It feels abrasive to no real end.

Why do my actions have to be catered to you?

Not about catering to me. It's about not being a jerk. Not being a jerk helps other people feel more open to talking and discussing, which is good for town. Silence for is not.

Sorry I actually misread that first part as talking about Dunnstral before. MeowMix may have had a new take, but it was one that was sure to go nowhere I think. No one else had expressed interest in anything close to a Gamma vote. Just felt like adding to something knowing that it would likely be brushed off.

You heard it here, folks. After 72 hours it's too late to bring in a new read.

Clearly this is not how I feel. But MeowMix didn't bring anything truly new or interesting to the table. Rehashed some old ideas, called it a scum read.

Out of those who have attacked BlackStar who are you not scumreading?

I'll tell you who I am scumreading and you can decide from there. You, Zach, MeowMix. Others that have slight scumreads have more to do with them not saying much, but I'd rather not highlight them for that since I'm likely just falling into a trap there.

Having a take that goes nowhere is not a bad thing at all.

You should take this point up with Mimikyu, who is happy to hand out a scumread based on it.

Mafia 101: We are not looking for scummy actions. We are looking for scummy

intentions

.

The action combined with the context of this game, the timing, his post history, and my gut lead me to believe that the action was done with scummy intentions. It is not just about an action. No action is scummy in a vacuum.

I don't even know what I was thinking when I wrote that O.o
I guess I thought one of them voted the other for some reason...

I voiced my suspicion of him but he didn't really say anything about me. FWIW my vote would be there if Umlaut wasn't the stronger read.

FWIW also like SS's entrance, although admittedly it may have something to do with the opposing reads of Umlaut who I think is scum. Only played a couple games with more than one scum faction so still figuring out how to work with that.

I don't even know what I was thinking when I wrote that O.o
I guess I thought one of them voted the other for some reason...

I voiced my suspicion of him but he didn't really say anything about me. FWIW my vote would be there if Umlaut wasn't the stronger read.

FWIW also like SS's entrance, although admittedly it may have something to do with the opposing reads of Umlaut who I think is scum. Only played a couple games with more than one scum faction so still figuring out how to work with that.

Yeah, you did push him, but it wasn't the "one of them is probably scum" interaction that I somehow thought it was.

Oh, I forgot, I was also going to ask about the second line: does that mean you agree with my reads?

For the most part. Can't say I feel as strongly about Jester and I'm still torn on Ari since he's been absent.

[Dunnstral]

If you just said Mimikyu was scumreading Umlaut, why wouldn't he kill him if he was scum?

Actually I have a question: Do you guys think scum would try to specifically figure out who's scum on the other faction and try to kill them?

Isn't it better for them to lynch the other scum team and nk town?

[Dunnstral]

You said it yourself

And I think S_S would agree with that sentiment, as would Mimikyu, and if they as a team actually thought Umlaut was scum, they wouldn't kill him

[Dunnstral]

I don't believe that reasoning exactly follows, Dunn. It's like you're presenting me a solved puzzle when you don't have all the pieces.

Wow look at you go you fucking superstar, you were right about S_S. great. you're a sleuth now?


I seriously don't buy that shit. But whatever, for now... because we have..


VOTE: hi im Yakko

lets go mofucka

No, this is not OK

Everything I've said today has made sense. You need to explain what is wrong with it, and why you think Yakko is scum in light of these new flips

[Dunnstral]

DID THIS DUDE REALLY JUST OMGUS ME

IN BROAD DAYLIGHT

umlaut let's be best friends

[Dunnstral]

Meowmix/Vaxkiller has basically done nothing all game

[Dunnstral]

Vaxkiller/Yakko didn't interact with what was going on with votes between me/Gamma that whole thing AT ALL

Just ignored it and wrote other stuff that doesn't really matter

(I think this is scummy behavior)

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler: unrelated to the game @Zach

"Sama (様【さま】) is a more respectful version of san for people of a higher rank than oneself, toward one's guests or customers (such as a sports venue announcer addressing members of the audience), and sometimes toward people one greatly admires."

[Dunnstral]

Each scum team is 2 members, right? Regardless of what the fuck happened with Mimikyu and Umlaut I don't see why you act like the other scum partner having an influence on that kill is an impossibility. Or that scum didn't orchestrate something. You probably think you have it figured out, but I think there's other variables at play could have been going on in minds of the scum that 1) we potentially don't know 2) we're not considering or attempting to consider.

But I did consider what scum must have been thinking. Very much so. I'm saying I don't think S_S would have targeted someone the thought was mafia, and neither would Mimikyu.

What I hate about you is you always write people off as town like you got some super duper KYOKO KIRIGIRI READS when u don't. I saw what you wrote. SURE, there's merit there. I don't believe it locks dude off as town. If anything I want to see what he has today.

But it's ok when you write people off as town?

You'll notice that I'm usually write about people being town. Much more often than I'm right about people being scum (

See: game where I was vig

)

[Dunnstral]

@dunn Why are you suddenly putting in a lot of effort today?

Two members of different scum teams with ~60-80 posts each died

We have a lot of information

Also, I intend to win this game and I'm pretty obviously town

If anything, day 1 I was much less active than I usually am. Half the town was ignoring current events or being dumb/scummy. The other half were voting me. I wasn't able to focus on everyone without information. Gamma flipping town didn't give any information, by the way

[Dunnstral]

Like NY 196? Ya boys townreads were on point like a decimal.

...? They were.

[Dunnstral]

Hint: The people I shot weren't townreads, those were scumreads

[Dunnstral]

He was going to die anyway. Why prolong it?

...I was still typing things when the night ended

Had to finish up what I was writing up when I saw a votecount and that he self voted

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler: Aristophanes

We've got very little time here.

Freezing the deadline until the replacements are found.

VOTE: Gamma

VOTE: Skold

Okay, so this is scum. I legit scumread every post they've made thus far. Something is just wrong here and it is the colour of their role PM.

Join me!

can you explain what about his posts made you "legit" scumread all of them. Specifically what makes his post obv scum in your eyes. I think you're lying here. aristo.

8 "I don't scumhunt."
Need I say more?

14 In a multiball game, townblocks are even more precarious than usual. And they should be something that forms naturally, not something forced.

15 Just a post to shit on people who don't play his way. Eww.

16 A vote just to be safe, after having literally just denounced a scumread on that slot for being based on nothing. plus "It's so hard being reasonable" is just such a contrived sentence for the post.

19 Okay, I don't scumread this post, but whatever.

I'm fucking around mostly and demonstrating that while I could read into stupid shit stupidly I have good reasons not to a little. Mostly just fucking around because it appears to be just us 3 for now.

Basically he's saying not to take any of the above seriously, and that he's not going to read into things, even though that's exactly what he has been doing. Then reiterating that he's not playing seriously. Also, he's not been townhunting to this point, and isn't making efforts to find a townblock, which is apparently how he plays, What a contradiction!

These are the posts prior to my suspicion. This breakdown felt wholly unnecessary, but there you go.

It's probably just Skold's meta.

What is?

Doubtcasting? Or townhunting (which he didn't actually do)?

I like Yakko's entrance too (and never really found Skold all that scummy anyway).

Aristo, are you really casting shade on Skold for not townhunting when what he did instead was flake out of the game?

It sure does look like it, doesn't it?

Do you have any other insights on Smart?

It's all good, get to it when/if you can.

Imma see if I can go over Smart's vote and such in the meantime.

Gamma is still an ideal lynch for today though.

Aubrey wagon?
I'll pass.

UNVOTE:

I've unconvinced myself that I am in the right place.

Call me crazy, but
VOTE: Dunn

Not against a Gamma lynch, but I've stopped ignoring this slot and have a scumlean.

I could lynch Gamma but the lack of counterwagons bothers me.

I'm the counterwagon

And the scum teams are teams of 2 so there'd only be 1 person working with him

Therefore worrying about counterwagon or a lack thereof is useless.

?????
I don't understand how those are related.

Well, I hate answering for others, as I did initially. However being only 2 members per scumteam, for a counterwagon on scum to be driven by scum, that mamber would have to defend his teammate very hard. That one would not do that and risk the associatives is reasonably assumed. Therefore counterwagons are NAI for either those on them, or those they fall onto and off of.

Also, preflip scumteam's are stupid and should not be assumed. Especially on D1! I've seen some of this and find it ridiculous.

half of his reads are null. Having a lot of nulls is a scumtell.

Having a lot of null after flips is dubious, but D1 is rather normal. Also, having either a lot of town or scum reads can also be a scum tell, depending on the player.

I don't think Ümläüt is gonna happen today based on what you've got. JS.

Whoops

VOTE: Gemerald

Gamma is dumb for self voting, I had no clue BTD6 hsd fake hammered and myself assumed he was hammered and town, I'd have switched to trying to get S_S lynched

Same here. It was sad to see.

Great flips though! =D

First of all that vote on gamma to start is really bad

His vote moves between Gamma and Me with no reasoning

He's been weird all game and hasn't really done anything

The chance this guy gets night killed is nonexistent

I think I can see him as being mafia with either S_S or Umlaut from looking through his iso (I quoted them)

VOTE: Aristophanes

[Dunnstral]

I think BTD6 is more likely to be town than not now

Jester too but I never scumread him

[Dunnstral]

BTD6maker is mafia for sure. Hes lurking hard, holding back in the wings, following his scum buddy umlaut to gamma. However when Umlat goes off on his own thing, he doesn't feel comfortable and continues to lurk, on gamma, doing very little for the game. Some fluff here and there, saying just enough to not get voted over everyone else being so loud. Never speaks to umlaut, even tho Umlaut RVS voted him, defends him and asks questions to him!


BTD never responds and umlaut never pressures him for answers.

"BTD never responds" Isn't alignment indicative for him, unfortunately

[Dunnstral]

I think even if BTD6's fake hammer was on accident, as scum they'd be paying more attention and more "calculated"

Not much to go on but I think there are quite a few better lynches than him

[Dunnstral]

@dunn Do you think aristo is a scum buddy of something smart or umlaut?

I said I could see either

[Dunnstral]

Bit of a stretch

[Dunnstral]

Pretty large stretch, in fact

[Dunnstral]

@blackstar, who do you think is scummiest today so far?

Aristo

!

[Dunnstral]

Unfortunately Yakko doesn't actually feel like scum to me right now. I don't see scum making this outlandish of a push. Brings unnecessary heat.

Judging by the fact that no one besides me is trying to lynch him, I'd say there is no heat.


You're #2, by the way.

He's town

[Dunnstral]

Cause I kinda like Ari.

Why

[Dunnstral]

the burden of proof is on the "lynch Ari" camp, buddy.

I've liked his posts and tone throughout most of the game and never saw a reason to not like them.

pls stop trolling my game, I started putting a sizeable amount of effort here

[Dunnstral]

Yes

[Dunnstral]

I want to lynch Aristophanes

[Dunnstral]

Incidentally, when I become a low effort poster, as I am currently, I also become a low effort lynch, which scum love to jump upon.

Why do you think scum would jump on you and not BTD6? Vaxkiller? Yakko?

Please explain why you think scum are more likely to be after you for a lynch

[Dunnstral]

Why are you voting Zach?

[Dunnstral]

I could sub in

where?

Just wherever you need in order to get a lynch?

Why do you think vaxkiller is a werewolf specifically?

[Dunnstral]

That's how I read it too

[Dunnstral]

Others like the Aristo wagon (not sure if they think hes with Umlaut or something smart)

Either

Btd6 or vax is the partner of umlaut

Is this having read the game?

[Dunnstral]

I want to lynch Aristophanes, though

[Dunnstral]

BTD6 you were asked to claim and you're at L-1, I recommend claiming

[Dunnstral]

OK. Let's lynch Aristo. If BTD6 was fake claiming he'd get counter claimed and there's only 1 scum on each team

[Dunnstral]

I still don't think I've been scummy, but okay.

I'm sorry you feel this way

[Dunnstral]

How's that yakko vote coming along?

Want to vote Aristophanes now?

[Dunnstral]

is there a solid case on ari?

I'll ignore this scumline if you vote ari

[Dunnstral]

Rather how can you think yakko is more likely scum than ari?

[Dunnstral]

Ari has been slimy all game long and there's been something off about the way he says things

I can see him being mafia or werewolf

I've played with him before and he feels like scum here

Just a moment ago he was pushing his own counterwagon

You're parked on a wagon by yourself while someone else got to l-1

[Dunnstral]

I wasn't voting BTD either?

You're purposely going off topic

[Dunnstral]

why not do something with your vote?

[Dunnstral]

Aristophanes said he'd look at the reasons I'm not scum. He never did. Still calling me scum without a reason, but never pushes me (because nobody is voting me)

Also scum have to claim vt

Let's hammer this

[Dunnstral]

nvm, yakko went to join another vanity wagon

[Dunnstral]

These are my reads. They are not strictly ordered by strength, but by order ISOed in each grouping

Spoiler: Reads

Town:

Aubrey

: He has been doing very good at scumhunting, although he’s been mostly focused on me and BTD6, so that’s something to consider.

Hi Im Yakko

: He’s been very blunt and I feel like he’s town for that. However, voting for someone before you are completely caught up is dumb.

Mimikyu

: Has been doing some

very

intense scumhunting, I feel.

BlackStar

: He’s been very confrontational, to the extent that he seems very towny.

SS

: Other than the failed attempt at pressure, I think his posts are pretty good. Has been asking some very good questions.
Null:

BTD6_maker

: I get a whole lot of blah from his posts. Want to see more.

Zach

: I’ve seen towny and scummy posts from this one.
Scum:

MeowMix/Vaxkiller

:VaxKiller hasn’t really done anything alignment indicative, so I have to go by MeowMix, and

holy crap his ISO is bad

. Asking to be best friends with Umlaut is very scummy to me. I also don’t like how he kept focusing on me and BTD6.

TheJester

: Has he had

no

scumreads other than Skold’s slot? Also, catch-up posts don’t really feel fresh, and that has been a sign of scum trying to avoid confrontation before, so there’s that.

Aristophanes

: Seems very passive and neutral. Do not like.

Umlaut

: Many of his posts feel like he is trying to keep the town quiet.

Dunnstral

: As I’ve said before, his early posting was very erratic, and he’s been very opportunistic in his later posts.

After my searching, I feel Umlaut is my strongest scumread,
VOTE: Umlaut
BTW, this was written last night, so it does not include observations from today.

These reads are actually really good. However @Gamma why would you try to start a deadline wagon on Umlaut rather than staying on the already established Dunn wagon?

Really? Because he's factually and objectively wrong:

Aubrey:
1.Aubrey hasn't been "very focused on gamma and BTD6" in fact he barely even talks about BTD6, and has been on me for most of the game (hint: never made a giant wall of text for gamma)
2. "Very good at scumhunting" When you say they were on yourself and the lurker all game? And nobodies flipped?

Hi Im Yakko:
3. OK, I've been very blunt too. Why has this ignored for me, but is a reason to townread Hi Im Yakko?

Mimikyu:
4. I wouldn't say he's been doing "

Very

intense scumhunting" (because he wasn't

BlackStar:
5. See #3. OK, I've been very Confrontational too. Why has this ignored for me, but is a reason to townread BlackStar?

SS:
6. Please point out these very good questions.

BTD6_maker:
7. Note that this guy spent around an hour on this reads list to write "I get a whole lot of blah from his posts. Want to see more."

Zach:
8. Note that this guy spent around an hour on this reads list to write "I’ve seen towny and scummy posts from this one." like what

Meowmix/Vaxkiller:
9. "Asking to be best friends with Umlaut is very scummy to me" And why is that...? How does that add up?
10. "I also don’t like how he kept focusing on me and BTD6." LOL, but you JUST townread Aubrey for "doing a very good job at scumhunting" when in your OWN words you said he focused on you and BTD6 (even though untrue.) So, wow

TheJester:
11. "Catch-up posts feel fresh" Don't expect you to even know what that means, let alone explain it

Aristophanes:
12. Hypocrite

Umlaut:
13. "Many of his posts feel like he is trying to keep the town quiet." Please point out these many posts and what this means

Dunnstral
14: Cognitive Dissonance/You have no reason to switch your votee off me from your story thus far/See #3 and #5



But please, tell me why you thought the reads list was good.

What?

I never said I agreed with his reasons, if that's what you're referring to.

But you said his reads list was good. Note that most of that can be read as a reply to him, so when I say "you" in there I'm referring to Gamma

Still, you did say his reads list was good. I pointed out why every single read of his was most certainly not good, so it's interesting that you'd disagree

I can see nobody is going to vote off of this Gamma wagon, so I don't think I have a choice but to L-1 you with less than a day left.

Claim?

Whoops

VOTE: Gemerald

I list off a bunch of reasons why ss is using cognitive dissonance to be agreeing with gamma (I was voting gamma himself for that same list)

Aristo ignores everything and jumps on gamma

[Dunnstral]

I list off a bunch of reasons why ss is using cognitive dissonance to be agreeing with gamma (I was voting gamma himself for that same list)

Aristo ignores everything and jumps on gamma

What would you rather I do there?

Vote Smart? I don't believe there was a chance that lynch would go through eve if I did like it.
Keep my vote on you? Not the timeline of events. We were close to the end of the day. We had to consolidate.
Vote Gamma? While it may not have been optimal in hindsight, it was the best move at the time. So I did it.

So what is the point of this?

Or you know, acknowledge the rather large post calling out s_s in some way

[Dunnstral]

People make mistakes. Reads change. Reacements wield new information for reading a slot.

What did Vax do that made you scumread him then, if it wasn't due to meowmix?

[Dunnstral]

Refresh my memory

[Dunnstral]

I have nothing more to say. Still people off wagon. You guys can stall the day out as long as possible or do something

[Dunnstral]

Ew how is that a good interaction

[Dunnstral]

and wake flipped town

He didn't flip Pgo, though.

[Dunnstral]

Zach goes completely off topic while not doing anything for this game

[Dunnstral]

You decided he's town based off that one thing?

That doesn't really even look towny

[Dunnstral]

Why won't you vote aristo though

[Dunnstral]

What you're saying is off topic

[Dunnstral]

I know why

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Vaxkiller

We're not lynching Yakko. Don't be dumb.

Since ari wagon just got ABANDONED I'll make sure we at least don't lynch yakko

[Dunnstral]

It's L-2 I think

[Dunnstral]

L-1

[Dunnstral]

Jester gave no hints as to who he investigated night 1

[Dunnstral]

Struggling to come up with a reason jester was killed, looks to be a frame kill to me

[Dunnstral]

Er

Why are you only focused on ww? We know ari isn't mafia

How did you narrow it down to us three like that?

[Dunnstral]

I don't think wolf is Dunnstral because S_S voted Dunnstral close to lynch D1

So it's Aristophanes or Aubrey

:/ seeing as Ari didn't go nowhere you are left with me, and i'm afraid I'm not mafia good sir.

Hmmm

What are you talking about here? Eager was focused on wolves (still not sure why)
Here you seem to be concerned about not being mafia; even saying it couldn't be ari because of the track (but since we were talking about wolves that's not true)

To me it kind of looks like a slip that makes it more likely you're mafia as opposed to a wolf.

VOTE: Aubrey

[Dunnstral]

Also, assuming jester was the wolf kill and mafia went fot BTD6, I don't think Zach is a WOLF because I can't see him killing jester in this position. I was thinking about him being scum again over the night

[Dunnstral]

I don't think wolf is Dunnstral because S_S voted Dunnstral close to lynch D1

So it's Aristophanes or Aubrey

:/ seeing as Ari didn't go nowhere you are left with me, and i'm afraid I'm not mafia good sir.

Hmmm

What are you talking about here? Eager was focused on wolves (still not sure why)
Here you seem to be concerned about not being mafia; even saying it couldn't be ari because of the track (but since we were talking about wolves that's not true)

To me it kind of looks like a slip that makes it more likely you're mafia as opposed to a wolf.

VOTE: Aubrey

Have you also considered the fact that at the tail end of day one I turned against Umlaut, after having a town lean on him for most of day 1, due to his reasons for voting Gamma?

Can you quote that

[Dunnstral]

The whole interaction you're talking about

[Dunnstral]

What can you do against VI townie? No counterplay. zero counterplay actually. It didn't help that zach was potentially game throwing. Oh well. Nothing to do against someones ego no counterplay again there. feelsbadman. If anything hopefully this cements zach as not playing for the town and hopefully zach is that much closer to a lynch.

LOL

[Dunnstral]

Put this one in the sig post-game @Zach

[Dunnstral]

Nah I got it..........

[Dunnstral]

"Losing tempo"

Day just started

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler:

I'm just saying I didn't "jump on my own counterwagon".

^

I'd like to hear some opinions on this, because I've been agonizing over it. Gamma had three votes on him, and was under some fire before he voted Dunn alongside me. At first glance, one could say this is him trying to get attention off of himself by sheeping a vote that had some backing to it, but on the flip side, Gamma does enter the "bandwagon" with a observation/point of his own. Technically he is right when he says he didn't just

jump

onto his opposing bandwagon.

--

What I don't like is that he just tried to insinuate that he was the main pusher of Dunn. Was this just a bad communication error though?

I don't like when he dropped Dunn for Umlaut, the reasoning for it, and had to reconsider a vote that he was on initially after I went deeper into his own observation and brought it up to him directly. Is this just a newer player who has also overbooked himself in to many games? (Yes gamma, I know your playing more than this game. What are you in, like 3-4?)

I also don't like that multiple times, people have told him/reminded him that he needs to stop parroting, yet he would continue to do it at times. Most notably in posts 525 & 526. There have been a few other small things that have happened that made me crinkle my eyebrows as well such as forgetfulness (thought i'm guilty of that too) and a few outlandish posts.

--

Overall I can't make heads or tails out of him, and that is a major concern to me.

Bad news: I am unable to use the computer my reads list is on right now, so it will have to wait. Sorry for the inconvenience.
@Vax: I'm pretty much the lynch du jour at this point.

Not only were you no longer the leading wagon (and Creature had just posted a vote count making this obvious), no one was even talking about you u til you jumped in to get hyperdefensive over one throwaway line of a post that wasn't really about you.

I can see either alignment attempting to correct something, no matter how small, if they feel like it misrepresents them.

Were you not here for the part where I never wanted to lynch Gamma?


I don't know if you guys think that just because you townread someone, they can't do scummy shit and you can't call them out for it.

Exactly, which is why I'm not as bothered by Gamma asking you how you felt about him afterwards. This seems like a natural reaction for him to ask. Umlaut however differs. That is now two reasons Umlaut has voted for Gamma that doesn't exactly sit well with me. Umlaut has been fine for me most of the game, but those two reasons for the recent Gamma vote have me a little concerned.

It was because of Gamma, not because of you

preach.

Here's the thing: it didn't matter. The lynch was either me or Gamma. How many votes did Umlaut have? He had none

His death then cuts off further interaction

Moreover, that's not even something that means you're not scum together?

It looks bad when you have to try to defend yourself from vca using a weak dxchange like this

[Dunnstral]

I'm curious to see who btd6 votes he keeps landing on town.

They're on Aubrey right now

[Dunnstral]

That was directed at your thoughts of me and Umlaut being a mafia team.

You're acting like it's evidence you're not mafia with Umlaut.

But it doesn't even come close to that

[Dunnstral]

You think if ari is wolf he nokills and mafia randomly kill the jester with a claimed tracker?

[Dunnstral]

To me it seems you're trying to show you have no clue what scum did as a form of quasi-townslip, which ends up backfiring because you really should be able to think for yourself here

Mafia tried to kill BTD6 and was blocked by a doctor.
Wolf killed The_Jester

No kill gambit doesn't sound likely to me

You think if ari is wolf he nokills and mafia randomly kill the jester with a claimed tracker?

Then why didn't both alignment go after BTD? Clearly one of the scum strayed. I think its a possibility.

Why would wolves kill a mafia tracker? Especially when they know mafia will probably try to kill them

[Dunnstral]

It isn't 100% proof we are not partners, I admit. However, I think you should make up your mind about it. Did the guy who seemed to like Umlaut throughout day one, up until the end where he begins to question his motives, seem to be driven by town motivation or scum motivation.

Were you acting friendly, or were you talking past each other; so busy pushing other town it wasn't noticable

I haven't looked yet, I'm not at a PC, but I have a pretty good guess of what I'll find when I do

[Dunnstral]

Do you not consider a 100% read townie a threat to scum irregardless of who he can see at night?

Not when there's 10 people left and 1 wolf; and when mafia might kill them anyway

[Dunnstral]

Mafia tried to kill BTD6 and was blocked by a doctor.
Wolf killed The_Jester

This is another possibility. My point being, Ari seemed to have forgotten that BTD could only see mafia.

I'd argue that if he truly forgot, and was a wolf, he'd have killed BTD6.

If he's scum then it's almost certainly him being a wolf and pretending to forget

[Dunnstral]

I had to go back and read that dumb shit. SMH

Hope you're referring to Yakko; and not me

[Dunnstral]

Scum want to kill scum.

A moment ago you were wondering why the wolf wouldn't attack BTD6.

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE:

ok then

Not sure how I feel about voting ari when they're probably not with one of the factions

[Dunnstral]

on the other hand you could argue that since our seer is dead, we should be focused on wolves anyway?

[Dunnstral]

Well if we're being honest it was likely moving that way anyway so good we got that out of the way early in the day so we can move on to other stuff.

because of the glorious VCA! If you all would have looked at my interactions and reasons for voting, then there might have been a chance that I could have skidded by today and been able to protect BTD for another night. Doesn't matter now. The lot of you happy followed along and got me throw my cards on the table.

You said Ari could be faking his ignorance. Maybe. However, for a split minute there even I forgot that I can only protect against mafia and BTD could only see mafia at night. I think it is possible he really did forget. I also think it more likely for scum to either try and bring forward reasoning for believing them to be town, or try and bring forward reasons to scum read other people.

I didn't vote you for "vca" though. I laid out a whole host of reasons

[Dunnstral]

Did Zach just make a case?

[Dunnstral]

I don't want to lynch yakko. I am currently townreading them

[Dunnstral]

Thinking I want to lynch mimikyu

[Dunnstral]

What changed?

Everyone else I wanted to lynch was a pr or got half-cleared by one

mimikyu is just a feeling and poe kind of; actually thinking aristophane is less likely to be a wolf too today and I'd rather lynch mimikyu

Yakko I just don't think scum would play the way that they're playing and I've been thinking they're town for a while

[Dunnstral]

That seems really wear reasoning at this point in the game Dunn.

But it's not

So what you think it seems like is wrong I guess

[Dunnstral]

Can you elaborate on this? What parts of their play do you think scum wouldn't do, and why do you think scum wouldn't do them?

Just his general carefree attitude. I don't think he's scum and don't want to vote him, I don't even know why you're voting him to begin with

[Dunnstral]

I'm paranoid about Zach, however that is simply because I see no reason to write him off as not being a potential partner with either of the scum.

I don't think Zach is with s_s/wolf because of the jester kill

[Dunnstral]

Can you elaborate on this? What parts of their play do you think scum wouldn't do, and why do you think scum wouldn't do them?

Just his general carefree attitude. I don't think he's scum and don't want to vote him, I don't even know why you're voting him to begin with

Then vote Mimikyu already.

[Dunnstral]

I think he'd have killed you or me or eagersnake

[Dunnstral]

Is that why you killed jester

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Mimikyu

[Dunnstral]

I don't think yakko is scum

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral, if the Mimikyu wagon goes nowhere, will you consider Aristo?

Yes

[Dunnstral]

Am I crazy or was that an extra long night

VOTE: Mimikyu

[Dunnstral]

It's hard for me to imagine Zach or Eagersnake as scum... I think they're really towning it up this game

So either I'm wrong on one of them and have basically given them a free pass yesterday

Or I was wrong on Yakko

But either way, I think you're one of the scum

[Dunnstral]

It's hard for me to imagine Zach or Eagersnake as scum... I think they're really towning it up this game

So either I'm wrong on one of them and have basically given them a free pass yesterday

Or I was wrong on Yakko

But either way, I think you're one of the scum

Ok well you do actually need to accept you were wrong on one of those people unless you are scum, so who is it?

I don't know. I'm not willing to lynch them over you.

[Dunnstral]

I'd be most inclined to say it was yakko I was wrong on but I'd have to look at it again

[Dunnstral]

Alright let me ask you all a question

Do you think the lynch on aristophanes was good for mafia yesterday?

[Dunnstral]

Yakko and Dunnstral, although I don't think we can lynch Yakko today due to the tracker results

cute

[Dunnstral]

I'm asking if you think that lynch specifically was good for mafia; because aristo was clear of being mafia from a track result

[Dunnstral]

Votecount 3.3

[0] BTD6_Maker
[1] Mimikyu - Dunnstral
[0] Aubrey
[2] hi im Yakko - Zachstralkita, Aristophanes
[0] eagerSnake
[0] Zachstralkita
[0] Dunnstral

[5] Aristophanes - eagerSnake, BTD6_Maker, hi im Yakko, Aubrey, Mimikyu [LYNCH]

[0] Nolynch

Not voting:

There are 8 players alive, 5 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-10-27 16:05:00)

In my mind, I'm really sure Zach isn't mafia, as I've individually kind of cleared him from being both mafia and werewolf

yakko isn't mafia barring shenanigans

Which means mafia is between eagerSnake and Mimikyu.

[Dunnstral]

Would mafia push it from the start, or join at the end?