Open 654 | Surrealism - Game over

[Zachstralkita]

VOTE: MeowMix

The_Jester's also probable scum. I'll see how this one plays out.

[Zachstralkita]

VOTE: MeowMix

The_Jester's also probable scum. I'll see how this one plays out.

One of these - you believe this and you're drawing conclusions on what is effectively nothing, you don't and this is a reaction test which is also silly or you're scum. None of these are good things, stop this.

Save your superior analytical skills. Really.

[Zachstralkita]

" I don't scumhunt " - Skold


I don't see anything wrong with Aubrey's entry, really.

[Zachstralkita]

Aristo no. This is his normal.

Weren't you like, just attacking Skold before someone told you it was his meta?

And now you're defending him? Because someone told you it was his meta?

[Zachstralkita]

HAHAHAHAHHA WOOPS NOPE that's not at all what happened

[Zachstralkita]

I got you confused with a post that Aubrey made for some reason

Anyway, I'd go for BlackStar/Skold anyway.

But not before... my #1 target

[Zachstralkita]

Who is your number 1 target Zach?

MeowMix, of course. I'd never vote someone

randomly

.

I got you confused with a post that Aubrey made for some reason

Anyway, I'd go for BlackStar/Skold anyway.

But not before... my #1 target

Why?

I did take issue, and I hope I'm not the only one, with you voting Aubrey off of his entry posts with the " it seems fake " statement implies that you believed that you can draw substantive information to make a

significant

judgement off of two entry posts, which I find ludicrous. It looks more to me like you want to give off the appearance that you are scumhunting, rather than actually doing it.

[Zachstralkita]

VOTE: BlackStar

I guess I forgot to do this.

[Zachstralkita]

1) Mafia

You must be having a blast right now.

[Zachstralkita]

2. The point is it gets people talking. Talking about anything is better than talking about nothing. Someone says their favorite is mafia, they are more likely to become disengaged as town.

Here's where you're wrong. Noise is noise.

[Zachstralkita]

1) Mafia

You must be having a blast right now.

What a dumb post.

Not as dumb as your level 5 scumread on Aubrey.

[Zachstralkita]

When did I imply it was a high or a strong SR?


It's the wrong one. Rather, it's the one that scum makes IMO.




Willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, though. You have a couple more strikes.

[Zachstralkita]

It's incredibly easy for to foster a scumread on Aubrey off of those entry posts with the reasoning that " it's fake." It's incredibly easy to do that for a lot of people. With the amount of people on the internet that type how they actually speak, type how they DON'T actually speak, type like a cartoon character or an anime girl ,or perhaps an actual talking animal or a loony bin escapee, it befuddles me how you can create a scumread because someone's manner of speech reads fake or strange because you don't know what's normal to them. Someone's posts reading like they were manufactured to present a certain agenda or appearance is a different matter. I do not believe that's the case here. You are reaching.


I believe there were several other interactions at or before that point that , if investigated and pressed , could probably have given much more information and created discussion that would have given more information, if you were actually looking for scum.


Instead what I have now are a lot of surveys sprinkled with a little dash of disappointment. I'm so happy.

[Zachstralkita]

Then say it was a gut read.

Nothing I said was off base. Nothing anyone is doing to you is preventing you from scumhunting, it should actually give you more opportunities to do so.

We're definitely in for a long game if I'm pissing you off now.

[Zachstralkita]

Since you're so wonderful at detecting people's intentions based off their tone and word choice, it must be a goldmine when people engage with you directly to question you on an SR.

[Zachstralkita]

I didn't say that and I stated as such.

[Zachstralkita]

I don't see how he's conf biasing here.

And if entire conversation is centered around discussing endlessly how strong the scum read is, then of course I can't scum hunt. Every time I come in thread there's more posts where people are grilling me. You're creating an environment that makes it easy for scum to hide because you're focused on something that was blown way out of proportion.

What you're blowing out of proportion is the effect it should have on you. I think scum would want to make an appearance at the very least. If you want people off your case you should address Umlaut's latest points in depth and give an updated stance on everything, not just this particular situation, as opposed to playing the victim.

[Zachstralkita]

I think the issue is anyone thinking that

anyone

could have a strong scumread on page 8 of the game.

When is it appropriate to have a strong scumread then?

It's odd how several of you seem to be feigning ignorance on Blackstar's level of suspicion. This is a silly (and annoying) way to scumhunt.

What was addressed was that BlackStar strawmanned and deflected what Umlaut conveyed better in #176 than apparently I have in all my posts. I'm quite sure we all know how " strong " his scumread is. No one is feigning ignorance of anything at this point.

[Zachstralkita]

You said you wanted me to talk about why his posts were nonsense, so here you go

Who is your number 1 target Zach?

MeowMix, of course. I'd never vote someone

randomly

.

I got you confused with a post that Aubrey made for some reason

Anyway, I'd go for BlackStar/Skold anyway.

But not before... my #1 target

Why?

I did take issue, and I hope I'm not the only one, with you voting Aubrey off of his entry posts with the " it seems fake " statement implies that you believed that you can draw substantive information to make a

significant

judgement off of two entry posts, which I find ludicrous. It looks more to me like you want to give off the appearance that you are scumhunting, rather than actually doing it.

I said "it

seems

fake". I didn't say that it was definitely fake. That's not drawing substantive information, it's saying my initial reaction based off how he was talking. There's nothing ludicrous about that. It was the first page of the game, so I was just putting pressure on someone who pinged me. But this guy immediately started acting as if I was saying I was 100% sure I'd found the first scum. Nonsensical post.

Semantics. If you say something seems fake then you quite obviously believe that to be true or want to give off that appearance.

You forgot to do it for 70 posts? You didn't "remember" to vote until a little more pressure came my way? How interesting.

I had a post written up the night prior that I ended up not posting.

You said you wanted me to talk about why his posts were nonsense, so here you go

Who is your number 1 target Zach?

MeowMix, of course. I'd never vote someone

randomly

.

I got you confused with a post that Aubrey made for some reason

Anyway, I'd go for BlackStar/Skold anyway.

But not before... my #1 target

Why?

I did take issue, and I hope I'm not the only one, with you voting Aubrey off of his entry posts with the " it seems fake " statement implies that you believed that you can draw substantive information to make a

significant

judgement off of two entry posts, which I find ludicrous. It looks more to me like you want to give off the appearance that you are scumhunting, rather than actually doing it.

I said "it

seems

fake". I didn't say that it was definitely fake. That's not drawing substantive information, it's saying my initial reaction based off how he was talking. There's nothing ludicrous about that. It was the first page of the game, so I was just putting pressure on someone who pinged me. But this guy immediately started acting as if I was saying I was 100% sure I'd found the first scum. Nonsensical post.

VOTE: BlackStar

I guess I forgot to do this.

You forgot to do it for 70 posts? You didn't "remember" to vote until a little more pressure came my way? How interesting.

1) Mafia

You must be having a blast right now.

Useless post where he casts shade for no reason. In other words, more nonsense.

Do you have hypertension or something?

You said you wanted me to talk about why his posts were nonsense, so here you go

Who is your number 1 target Zach?

MeowMix, of course. I'd never vote someone

randomly

.

Willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, though. You have a couple more strikes.

If you weren't implying that it was a strong scum read, then why do you care so much about it? why'd you say it was so dumb before? Every vote in the very beginning of the game is dumb so why'd you immediately get such a hard on for me? Then he says only scum would have voted for Aubrey there and gives no reason for why he thinks this. We're just supposed to accept this as fact because he said. Then the cherry on the cake is him acting superior at the end as if anyone gives a crap about his strikes lol. It's all just really silly

Notice no one really backed you on that read substantially. Because it was dumb.

You don't need to know how someone usually speaks to make the comment that what they're saying sounds weird. We all know the way that people typically talk, so if I see someone making awkward posts you think that I don't have the right to say that it's awkward. That makes no sense. You're reaching. I voted and then you started acting as if it was super opportunistic and strange when it was just a normal vote. Everything before that was RVS so I doubt there were "tons of other interactions that could've been pressed for info". What I did could barely even be considering pressing lol.

I said no one should have had that reaction to those posts. And no one really did. Except for you.


Are your master scumhunting abilities still being impeded because of minor pressure on you?

[Zachstralkita]

Okay, enough. This has gone on for FAR too long. I don't really find BlackStar's actions that suspicious, but I definitely find Zachstralkita to be. He keeps trying to derail the discussion onto BlackStar. I don't see any reason town would try to do this.
VOTE: Zach

I don't know what you do, but I generally don't leave discussions unfinished if they're... unfinished, especially when it's a discussion I started. That might be the worst vote ever.

[Zachstralkita]

That's not how anything works, and you don't decide when something starts or stops.

[Zachstralkita]

happy birthday aubrey

[Zachstralkita]

Multiple discussions can go on at once. If you truly felt we weren't doing anything productive, why did you not opt to start a new discussion you preferred more and thought would produce more information instead of pissing around, voting me and proceeding to do

nothing

after that?

[Zachstralkita]

He was looking to analyze what you replied, I think. Reactions give a lot away.

Can't say I disagree with his summation. Just wondering, if I'm your scumread why is that question being posed to me rather than as a general question?

[Zachstralkita]

Okay, sorry.

[Zachstralkita]

I know I'm one to talk but wow you guys have effectively done nothing

It seems you have picked up on this, but yes you don't have much of a right to say that. You had an opportunity to do something when you came in and instead sheeped Gamma.

Still dislike Umlaut; he's scum. Don't like Aubrey, but coming around to him as potentially town that just annoys me. On board with others on Zach being possible scum. He can have time to shape up though. Don't care for MeowMix's re-entrance. Comes in like he's doing something, but just starts a new wagon on someone with no real suspicion. Makes no effort to comment on anything else that has happened.

What is the basis for your read on me. You're not accomplishing anything except being vague. And doubtcasting meowmix, and taking no real stance on mostly everything else save for Umlaut.

[Zachstralkita]

In other news BlackStar votes Umlaut for being competent.

[Zachstralkita]

I don't understand why you're doing nothing but taking pot shots at me. It's really annoying

Now you're not the only one.

What was addressed was that BlackStar strawmanned and deflected what Umlaut conveyed better in #176 than apparently I have in all my posts. I'm quite sure we all know how " strong " his scumread is. No one is feigning ignorance of anything at this point.

Keep using random buzzwords, pal

As convenient as it would be, words don't become random buzzwords just because you don't understand them and would rather not admit it. Continue acting like a dipshit, please. You now have the attention that you've been vying for.

[Zachstralkita]

I think I'll pass.

[Zachstralkita]

You do realize you saying I'm only taking potshots at you and then directly after that telling me to state facts is hypocritcal because I have been doing other shit? My ISO is not soley composed of attacks on you by any stretch of the imagination. And you'd be mistaken if you think I'd do nothing but address you as we move on, like I enjoy doing shit for no reason.

[Zachstralkita]

@Mimikyu please grace me with a response to #249

@Aubrey You're right. I say "this is dumb" a lot during arguments. But I try not to call people names and I wouldn't ignore multiple people telling me to stop being toxic

I'm not being toxic if that was the implication

Ok, it's too much for me to catch up on. Whose the scummiest person and why? Go!

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand then we have this motherfucker right here.

[Zachstralkita]

You do realize you saying I'm only taking potshots at you and then directly after that telling me to state facts is hypocritcal because I have been doing other shit? My ISO is not soley composed of attacks on you by any stretch of the imagination. And you'd be mistaken if you think I'd do nothing but address you as we move on, like I enjoy doing shit for no reason.

FYI your abrasive brand is bad for town if you are a townie.

Why do my actions have to be catered to you?

[Zachstralkita]

What is the basis for your read on me. You're not accomplishing anything except being vague. And doubtcasting meowmix, and taking no real stance on mostly everything else save for Umlaut.

For me it has a good bit to do with gut. Usually when people have your kind of abrasive style, I've seen certain things accompany it as each alignment. As town, it's likely due to being overconfident, but I don't actually feel that controlling confidence from you. It feels abrasive to no real end.

This is me being civil.

Anyways, ~~

VOTE: Mimikyu

I was thinking about doing this when I read 247, 259, 266 (toss in everything you've said about meowmix)



but then I see that scumpool and oh. oh boy.

[Zachstralkita]

to all the in-house geniuses, he's not scum simply for placing me into a scumpool

[Zachstralkita]

Having a take that goes nowhere is not a bad thing at all.

You should take this point up with Mimikyu, who is happy to hand out a scumread based on it.

Mafia 101: We are not looking for scummy actions. We are looking for scummy

intentions

.

The action combined with the context of this game, the timing, his post history, and my gut lead me to believe that the action was done with scummy intentions. It is not just about an action. No action is scummy in a vacuum.

Please speedlynch this lol

[Zachstralkita]

I suppose I wouldn't try thinking either if I could not do anything and not be scrutinized for it like Dunn does

[Zachstralkita]

meowmix is town sir

[Zachstralkita]

are you speaking to me

[Zachstralkita]

yes, detective gammerald. my RVS vote held the most serious of convictions and grounding beliefs

oh, how you have exposed me.

[Zachstralkita]

There's a good chance 90% of what I say isn't serious, but if it's something important you'll know how I feel about it.

So this wasn't stated before by me, but meowmix's actions are pretty town. his inquiry at gamma emerald was clearly from a town motiation and the people who don't see that are the ones i'd be cool with lynching.

[Zachstralkita]

i want to lynch mimikyu way more

gamma has been looking kind of derptowny to me..


But then I see posts like #356 and #354

[Zachstralkita]

hello user zach I am having a hard time getting a read on you and wish to learn more about you

what do you see that's derptown about gamma? tbh that's kinda how I was reading mimikyu but you have a scumread on him/her/it so we seem to be inverse of each other and I'd like to know how you arrived at those two conclusion

hard to explain but im going to attempt to, oh but before i do that im gonna make fun of dunnstrals shitty vote on meowmix

that was an awful fucking vote i hope you feel terrible

anyways throughout gamma's posts you can see that hes posting from like a bubble. the gamma emerald bubble

like, scum have to look at the post they type and go " well how does this make x look and how is x going to react to this and ive changed my opinion on x and if i say this in this way its going to sound like x, also i have to make my opinion be x to match what i said earlier about x"

I don't think gamma is doing this. the gamma emerald planet is revolving for gamma emerald and that is enough

Some examples:

I was nonchalant because you voted really weirdly. Asking for my permission? REALLY? You don't need PERMISSION to vote, JUST DO IT!

I'm sorry, but I don't think my posting is fluff. My RQS was me trying to get everyone involved and interacting, and that comment was me explaining my nonchalantness. He gave no indication why he was voting me and thought he needed permission. You know, I think the permission bit is scum trying way too hard to not appear scummy. I've been hesitant on reaching a conclusion on that, but having to explain my response to it for the thousandth time pushed me off the fence.
VOTE: MeowMix

How is that town motivated? Who asks for permission before voting? it seems like apologetic/hesitant scum to me.

this one is a bad misrep of meowmix's actions i will admit . but it seems more like it comes from rigid town that only sees a certain way than scum trying to set the stage for their preferred lynch.

I kinda figured it was a reaction test, but I didn't know what kind of reaction he wanted.

If he put his reasoning up front, I would have defended myself from the start, but instead he decided to (figuratively) hand me a shovel, not tell me what to do with it, and let me dig my own grave.

these thoughts here read like gamma went straight into his brain compartment pulled them out and put them on the screen, why, i wonder, does scum respond to such a situation (the meowmix reaction test and subsequent engagements) like THIS? I don't think scum does it like that at all. scum had to have known how " I didn't know what kind of reaction he wanted " SOUNDS, right?


i really didnt like that survey bullshit and his vote on me but the rqs is really nai and the vote on me, i can see it coming from gamma town, he has that newer air about him

gammas 207 is probably the worst thing about him tbh

other than that i cant really say I agree with most of what's been presented here

[Zachstralkita]

i do agree that his reaction to your inital line of inquiry before your vote was bad

i also did not like that when i saw it

I also disagree with how you're reading 343; he says he didn't know how I wanted him to react, but if he's town why would even think about that? scum are primarily the people who are conscious of their image, which reinforces that he's at least thought about how I would perceive his posts

hmm.. why would scum ever willingly say that though? it's tricky because theres scum and theres people who actually have to prove something regarding their appearance to the town for some reason

[Zachstralkita]

But then I see posts like #356 and #354

What about those posts didn't you like? (I'm assuming you didn't like them.)[/quote]


356 is gamma trying to cast shade on meowmix for underhandedly using " OMGUS " in a situation where it apparently does not belong, but with reasoning as flimsy as what gamma provided it might as well be a OMGUS lol. defending yourself and then casting an omgus vote is still an omgus vote. Unless I have something mistaken, which wouldn't be unusual.

354 is EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. you can read this either way. I don't like post like this at all because then I have to deliberate which way it is.


i'm not discrediting the idea of derpscum, boys. i'm just saying from where i'm standing he looks more like derptown to me

you really let me down though, umlaut. why can't we lynch mimikyu ? why have you forsaken me so?

[Zachstralkita]

Blackstar's said he's good at reading intentions. Maybe that's what got stuck somewhere in the back of your head.

Funny thing is, I just went back to check it and found a potential slip which I've missed before:

I'm pretty decent at judging people's intentions

based off of their town and word choice

, so I was just following my instincts.

In the highlighted part I believe Blackstar's wanted to say: "based off their tone and word choice" but subconciously used the word "town" instead. Now, that could suggest he's seeing other players as town by default cause he himself's mafia-aligned.

I realize this is a big stretch and I'm not gonna make a big deal out of it, especially that I've townread Blackstar this game. I'm posting this just for reference.

................don't do this again please

[Zachstralkita]

"Frustrated lynchbait" is exactly how I feel right now.

Anyone not voting Gamma, ask yourself if this is how a town player self-identifies.

Some town players self-identify like this. Just saying.

Yeah Jester, don't incriminate one of your townreads.

no


that post was the reachiest thing ive ever read im not even going to begin to go into that

[Zachstralkita]

Meta's not crap. It's easily misused, to be sure. But I don't think these are cases where it's being misused.
Ari I will wait to discuss until he catches up.
With Jester, it's hard to explain but he's being super transparent about his thoughts and he's clearly focused on scumhunting, and meta confirms that he is like that as town. (Read his ISO here.) Posts like 10, 17, 190, 282, and 402 are examples of him posting exactly what he thinks and how that applies to scumhunting.

Does that make sense to you?

Scum can seem transparent in thought and are also capable of scum hunting in this set up, so I'm not throughly convinced here.

Post 10: I don't see anything here that specifically aligns to an alignment. Either alignment can sit here and pat someone on the back while spatting out basic encouraging game mechanics.
post 17: Same. I don't see why either alignment couldn't be shocked at Skold's little turn around. It's like petting a dog and it tries to bite you. Kinda ironic with Skold's icon.
post 190: What I spoke of was in fact relevant, and all he did was again talk about basic game mechanics. Any alignment can do this, and look helpful. Not to mention I had talked about my feelings regarding Blackstar earlier in the game. This post is mostly a player who wasn't keeping tabs on everything that was being said as far as I'm concerned. Lastly I felt as if that pedit was a bit OMGUS-ish, but maybe I did seem like I was on the edge of battle while I was bickering with Mimikyu and not fully supportive of the Blackstar debate.
post282: I'll give you this one.
post 402: I'll also give you this one-ish. That previous post was a huge stretch, and I can't help but wonder if that was a way to keep Zach at bay from him a bit. Pocket is the term I think you all use here?

In conclusion I remain null with Jester. I also remain "eh" with meta. Meta can be changed, and it only

benefits

the person who has played with X person unless you have some form of a play by play copy from a previous game in comparison to this one. I'm just not a fan of it, and try to keep it out of my mind when I play with people I'm use to. I come from another site with a rather small pool of mafia players, so I'm use to keeping meta thoughts at bay.

why would he be keeping me at bay



you must not know how notoriously shit i am

[Zachstralkita]

read where he addresses post 402 from jester

[Zachstralkita]

Hold at bay, shrug it off. It's all the same. Jester makes some far fetched post. Zach responds in a negative manner towards it. Jester kinda laughs it off without pushing the issue any further. As I said, it was a feeling of X. Call it what you will.

Do the both of you hold him in a null position? or has he galavanted his way into your hearts as a townie?

no comment

[Zachstralkita]

i dont consent to searches officer

[Zachstralkita]

Aubrey my friend, I'm only refusing something in one sense.

[Zachstralkita]

before you get more confused

I simply do not have enough from jester to give you a solid read in my opinion

I really like a thing or two from him though

[Zachstralkita]

wow holy shit

UNVOTE: Gammerald
VOTE: BTD6_maker

Can you please justify this? The fact that I am busy in Real Life means that I cannot put as much time into this game as I would like to. Soon I will be less busy and will be able to invest more into this.

I would prefer it if everyone stopped scumreading me purely because of my low activity. Real life is more important to me than MS.net life.

There are so much things that are scummy

besides

your low activity.



Like, your posts.


I'm still trying to process this. What the fuck is going on.

[Zachstralkita]

Zach, why are you refusing to give your reads out of curiosity? I have a townie read from you based on your defense of gamma. I doubt the two of you are scum aligned. If you two were scum, I wouldn't understand Gamma's defense of Skold earlier. From that point of view I would assume your intentions Regarding that defense was town driven vs. scum driven. long story short, I think you have a strong town possibility so I'm interested in your reads. Refusing to give reads doesn't make a lot of sense.

This? I don't currently scumread Gamma and I don't currently townread Zach and I think it's dumb and/or wrong but I don't think you're scummy

Zach makes his reads clear as town, too, even if he doesn't come out and say it he'll be white knighting people

That's why it's rather odd that he jumped onto BTD6 so fast (though I do think BTD6 is scum, too, so it could be a bus move)

Nothing you said here makes sense at all

i WK a lot but stopping shitty lynches isnt even wking (gamma)


you voted aristophanes before -- that lynch is even more full of shit but if that wagon popped up again i 'd be " WKing " by informing everyone how awful it is

btd6 has had some of the worst posts i have ever seen in my life but its " bussing " only when i acknowledge this publicly, as opposed to... finding scum

most

of

your

reads

blow

this

is

a

fact





I've been minimally engaging with you all game because I lack the temperament to take seriously the bullshit you consistently spew. I am saving everyone about 40 pages of shit

not to mention you quoted and went to this post after i had addressed it for what? to make me appear how you present me?

[Zachstralkita]

Where's Zach

Don't forget about me pal

VOTE: Zachstralkita

Don't let this guy get away with it let me tell you

like even if zach's scum he can't white knight (he can try) here because there's 2 factions

VOTE: Zachstralkita

I've seen this guy as town quite a bit and let me tell you... he's not town this game

40% chance of being right

zAchstrAlkitA

VOTE: Zachstralkita

I've seen this guy as town quite a bit and let me tell you... he's not town this game

40% chance of being right

I'd like to hear a more in depth analysis on this from you.

Pretty damn confirmed. Found a scumteam guys.

Lets hear it then.

Where is Javajoe26 and BTD6_Maker? One could almost forget they are part of this game.

In depth analysis isn't exactly my forte

I think he's playing like he does as scum in this game

What was addressed was that BlackStar strawmanned and deflected what Umlaut conveyed better in #176 than apparently I have in all my posts. I'm quite sure we all know how " strong " his scumread is. No one is feigning ignorance of anything at this point.

Keep using random buzzwords, pal

Okay, enough. This has gone on for FAR too long. I don't really find BlackStar's actions that suspicious, but I definitely find Zachstralkita to be. He keeps trying to derail the discussion onto BlackStar. I don't see any reason town would try to do this.
VOTE: Zach

This is a weird and dramatic post

That's not how anything works, and you don't decide when something starts or stops.

VOTE: Zachstralkita

Just to reiterate: I think Zach is a member of an anti-town faction that opposes the town

You know, Zach has really changed his tune, or at least it feels like it.
UNVOTE:

That's how he gets you

also FOS Dunn's 242 for that little self-meta thing at the end I was not a particularly big fan of that

Do you disagree with what it actually said?

btw I think blackstar, aubrey, javajoe are all fine members of town


Anyways yeah don't let Zach pull one over on you guys

I think Zach might be town


Let's get

VOTE: Aristophanes

This guy looks bad for real

wow holy shit

UNVOTE: Gammerald
VOTE: BTD6_maker

Can you please justify this? The fact that I am busy in Real Life means that I cannot put as much time into this game as I would like to. Soon I will be less busy and will be able to invest more into this.

I would prefer it if everyone stopped scumreading me purely because of my low activity. Real life is more important to me than MS.net life.

There are so much things that are scummy

besides

your low activity.



Like, your posts.


I'm still trying to process this. What the fuck is going on.

ping

Something_Scummy is whiteknighting harder than Zach usually does while trying to be on the down-low about it

Zach, why are you refusing to give your reads out of curiosity? I have a townie read from you based on your defense of gamma. I doubt the two of you are scum aligned. If you two were scum, I wouldn't understand Gamma's defense of Skold earlier. From that point of view I would assume your intentions Regarding that defense was town driven vs. scum driven. long story short, I think you have a strong town possibility so I'm interested in your reads. Refusing to give reads doesn't make a lot of sense.

This? I don't currently scumread Gamma and I don't currently townread Zach and I think it's dumb and/or wrong but I don't think you're scummy

Zach makes his reads clear as town, too, even if he doesn't come out and say it he'll be white knighting people

That's why it's rather odd that he jumped onto BTD6 so fast (though I do think BTD6 is scum, too, so it could be a bus move)

@Dunn: this is multiball.

In that case it doesn't matter and they can both be scummy/scum together

I have good reasons to suspect both actually

Zach as Town would probably be more confrontational with me pushing him all game if that makes sense

Btd6 really feeling as scum too

@Dunn: where is the scum benefit for scum Zach to defend town Gamma then?

To look town?

To make Gamma look bad if Zach ever flips scum?

you have 24 posts im directly mentioned or referred to in 15 of them


You basically tunnel me every game hoping to get lucky no matter what regardless of what you say


If you're town you've done jack shit. You assume I'm scum until I flip or you get tired of my name showing up in everything you post, which you never do. Every single action I do is placed with a scum motivation from you.

If you're scum no one's going to lynch you because only you get a free pass for posting shit consistently.


And no one is going to do anything about it.

I'm not really going to read your posts unless I have a real reason to

[Zachstralkita]

@zach: He does have a point in that it does create unnecessary clutter though. Maybe using the post # feature would be better when you mass quote like that.

oh yeah, and said posts aren't clutter at all.


by any chance if

@mod wouldn't be so troubled

to spoiler the quotes in question I would greatly appreciate it



Otherwise, you don't have to expend precious energy to read any of the quotes at all to grasp the point that I'm trying to get across.

[Zachstralkita]

I don't trust the people on your wagon either

[3] Gamma Emerald -

BlackStar

, Ümläüt, BTD6_Maker

.....................................................................

rofl

[Zachstralkita]

SS do you think BTD6's posts are good?

[Zachstralkita]

Woops. I'm scumreading Umlaut because he seems rather abrasize, and I noticed he criticized BlackStar's scumread level of Aubrey, even though Umlaut asked for it.

Is this it, sir? Is there no further prerequisite for your prior vote on Umlaut?

When you mention " abrasive " factoring into your scumread, I find it odd how I am not mentioned but Umlaut is due to how this game's events appear to have played out. But apparently people like to just throw gut reads at me.

[Zachstralkita]

I don't know what exactly you meant by abrasive. I assumed tone.

Also I thought your second point relating to Umlaut was pretty weak.

[Zachstralkita]

If you're scum no one's going to lynch you because only you get a free pass for posting shit consistently.


And no one is going to do anything about it.

I'm not really going to read your posts unless I have a real reason to

I'm surprised you haven't said anything regarding this "wagon" on Dunn, or jumped on board. Does your vote on Mimikyu mean you still suspect him of being the most scummy? Or are you more interested in coming to terms with BTD's latest talk? If the latter is the case, what is it you are struggling to come to terms with?

ya bud I

love

to just openly state all my feelings on current events in thread with no regulation and not in my head, not like that could guide anyone whose goal is to present a dishonest image and deceive us to react in a certain way and mold their posts, thus furthering their goal and hindering ours while we are oblivious to it, haha! heehee! nya!

Mimikyu sort of dropped off the radar but I do not believe what he did leading up to the point of his disappearance (akin to an S.A.S. scuba dive mission) was substantial enough for me to change my read.

There is only one purifier. The great rope. We must use it.

Also, " coming to terms " with BTD's latest talk? Could you elaborate? I'm sort of confused

[Zachstralkita]

LMAO that was not as disrespectful as how you interpreted it

I'm about 89% sarcasm

[Zachstralkita]

okay so we won't engage in dialogue and i won't answer questions i am asked since my words are such pointy harmful weapons. a pleasant evening to you sir

[Zachstralkita]

WTF is with people this game??

I should be the one saying this.

don't tell me you considered that a " weird interaction "

[Zachstralkita]

not really bout that gamma lynch tbh

@MOD: Starting tomorrow I'm going to be V/LA an d having to post from phone for an undetermined period of time. I apologize in advance for any inconvenience this may cause.

[Zachstralkita]

Zach, do you have any insight into Dunn's alignment? I feel like you probably have the most experience with him of anyone here but you haven't really offered a read there.

You pointed out that no one will call him out on his behavior (namely death-tunneling you every game) but have you noticed any difference in how he does this in town vs. scum games, and if so what does this occasion look like to you?

I can't exactly say I have experience with scum Dunn right

at this moment

.

But it's hard to differentiate between the two.

I've noticed that people just write him off as town, though, as opposed to trying to read that. At least it comes off as such. Which is what irritates me. Is it that lovable avi?

My insight is that when I actually replied to his shit a few pages ago head-on, he stops replying to me and has made no further mention of me in way he was before. Yes, I took note of that.

He's going to come in here in a little doubtcasting me and making what I said seem somehow not relevant. I'm sure of it.

[Zachstralkita]

My last posts directed at him were trying to engage him. For most of the game I've been trying to ignore him so we wouldn't do a 50 page back and forth like every fucking game that we're in. So when I do try to engage him and I get crickets, am I fucking meant to be happy? No.

Am I scumreading him? With the way Dunn works, it's hard to get a solid read on him early on and lean this way or that way. Dunn can get away with doing a lot of the same shit as either alignment so I'd really not make a judgement call at this point. As I've stated before, Dunn's reads are notoriously shit so I can't call him scum for campaigning for awful lynches. It's one of his charms.

My main gripe was that no one really addressed how he was tunneling me like they didn't see it or didn't want to? And most of these people have never played with me, can't really say for Dunn, but I'm thinking not, so the whole meta thing can't really be applied? So I was confused.

[Zachstralkita]

My last posts directed at him were trying to engage him. For most of the game I've been trying to ignore him so we wouldn't do a 50 page back and forth like every fucking game that we're in. So when I do try to engage him and I get crickets, am I fucking meant to be happy? No.

Like, he says " Town Zach would be more confrontational with me pushing him!" and when I

confront him

he has nothing to say? What type of shit is that? If you were trying to get a reaction out of me, congratulations, you win.

[Zachstralkita]

@Zach so I'm tunneling you, but also ignoring you? Pick one bud, otherwise it's just..... normal interaction

don't play dumb and act like you didnt see 480 and 481 and then proceed to not address them, intentional or not

and then act like im making something up when I literally refer to it just now

[Zachstralkita]

What is the basis for your read on me. You're not accomplishing anything except being vague. And doubtcasting meowmix, and taking no real stance on mostly everything else save for Umlaut.

For me it has a good bit to do with gut. Usually when people have your kind of abrasive style, I've seen certain things accompany it as each alignment. As town, it's likely due to being overconfident, but I don't actually feel that controlling confidence from you. It feels abrasive to no real end.

This is me being civil.

Anyways, ~~

VOTE: Mimikyu

I was thinking about doing this when I read 247, 259, 266 (toss in everything you've said about meowmix)



but then I see that scumpool and oh. oh boy.

Is this your vote right now?

I like how I get called out for tunneling but your vote is parked for 300 posts while you talk about other stuff and try to stop every other lynch from forming while edging mine on from the shadows

I went back and looked at 480 and 481, why didn't you vote btd_6 following that?

my votes parked cause mimikyu is still scum obviously. he was scum. and he is scum still. is something difficult to grasp about that? because pages go by a motherfuckers alignment just changes and I should vote someone else? you know how bad that sounds?

How in the fuck am I edging your lynch on from the shadows? Oh, every time you do some goofy shit and I call you out on it I somehow have to be trying to kill you? Is that how it works?

that ill probably bet on it higher than BTD6 and definitely higher than gamma

btd6 has a few awful posts but what's disconcerting is that people are calling him out like "oh yeah pal, you had better start producing some content and FAST because that real life excuse is not gonna save u !!!11 !" like it isnt fucking day one right now. that is the definition of trying to appear as if you are acting in protown interest if im being honest. I have not put the spotlight on this at all I have simply noted it here.

I too am waiting on said content from BTD, BUT as either alignment BTD fucks himself more if his unwillingness to produce content is DELIBERATE. so it does not concern me too much. that problem will resolve ITSELF.


if i thought BTD was more likely scum than Mimikyu then I would be fucking voting BTD right now, would I not

That's not to say that he can't be scum, I'd just much rather let Mimikyu feel the rope's warm embrace

[Zachstralkita]

mimikyu is scum

that ill probably bet on it higher than BTD6 and definitely higher than gamma

this is supposed to be in there

[Zachstralkita]

mkay

VOTE: MeowMix

i have no fucking words for you

Why do you believe that mimikyu is scum again?

I'm sure you've given reasons, just a rehash would be nice

going into bad posts

Spoiler:

I know I'm one to talk but wow you guys have effectively done nothing

It seems you have picked up on this, but yes you don't have much of a right to say that. You had an opportunity to do something when you came in and instead sheeped Gamma.

Still dislike Umlaut; he's scum. Don't like Aubrey, but coming around to him as potentially town that just annoys me. On board with others on Zach being possible scum. He can have time to shape up though. Don't care for MeowMix's re-entrance. Comes in like he's doing something, but just starts a new wagon on someone with no real suspicion. Makes no effort to comment on anything else that has happened.

what a wonderful post. " yeah, zach had better shape up before i use my overpowering sway to get him lynched because im TOWN. me and the rest of the TOWN are going to lynch him. "

the way he analyzed meowmix's re-entrance is how scum would do it. the re-entrance in question is when meowmix briefly engages gamma before placing a vote on him ( asking how he would feel about it)

@Mimikyu: Nobody up until now has said much about Gamma that I recall. This to me is a new take on things, cause they could just have parroted something that has already occurred. If you are unsatisfied with Meowmix's lack of responding to current events, then maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea poke and prod them.

@Ümläüt: There really isn't a need to be abrasive in this game. However, @Blackstar even you've been abrasive when you say a post is stupid and what not.

Sorry I actually misread that first part as talking about Dunnstral before. MeowMix may have had a new take, but it was one that was sure to go nowhere I think. No one else had expressed interest in anything close to a Gamma vote. Just felt like adding to something knowing that it would likely be brushed off.

here he implies that meowmix does something for an agenda to try to be perceived a certain way in everyone's eyes -- not just trying to gamesolve in his own manner. blatant doubtcasting

For MeowMix it doesn't feel good. It feels like someone entering the game, pretending to be an active participant, but avoiding getting involved with anything with any real weight.

For MeowMix

it doesn't feel good? But, what, for someone else it might?

In general, do you find effort to be alignment-indicative? Because I don't.

No of course not, but this has little to do with effort. It has to do with the illusion of effort.

I too enjoy taking events and portraying them only from the perspective that benefits and comes the most naturally to me.

Out of those who have attacked BlackStar who are you not scumreading?

I'll tell you who I am scumreading and you can decide from there. You, Zach, MeowMix. Others that have slight scumreads have more to do with them not saying much, but I'd rather not highlight them for that since I'm likely just falling into a trap there.

You will note that after he lists his " scumreads " he does not attempt to push any of them even once past from there. I don't know if he's solidly pushed one of them this game. View the ISO.

Having a take that goes nowhere is not a bad thing at all.

You should take this point up with Mimikyu, who is happy to hand out a scumread based on it.

Mafia 101: We are not looking for scummy actions. We are looking for scummy

intentions

.

The action combined with the context of this game, the timing, his post history, and my gut lead me to believe that the action was done with scummy intentions. It is not just about an action. No action is scummy in a vacuum.

this is one of those posts that sounds good, but then you actually use your eyes and look at it and its the worst shit ever.


The stances he takes are never backed up solidly. rather, he takes stances that he can back out of and he has only recently appeared in game to poke around at some people's posts and not make moves on his SRs. and people are callling out BTD for not giving content?

his posts have been pinging me oddly all game. and this is the part where someones going to say im wking meowmix and dunnstral says my case is shit. go ahead

[Zachstralkita]

" boy do I think these players deserve pressure !"

" well put pressure on them!"

" oh my god you are SO viSIONARY THAT WAS THE BEST POST IVE EVER SEEN "

" YEAH I AGREE"

" ME TOO "

"well okay... vote: meowmix"

What an effective way to place pressure on them. This singular vote will

surely

produce desired pressure and isn't transparent to anyone at all!

[Zachstralkita]

Do you scumread Something_Smart?

i wasn't but i have to call what i see

that whole scenario was definitely bad though

[Zachstralkita]

I don't believe that could be considered indirect.

[Zachstralkita]

the scenario i presented had you thinking BLACKSTAR is a god

[Zachstralkita]

Am I the only one here who thinks Gamma is town

[Zachstralkita]

It seems you are reaching for ways to incriminate me now, BlackStar.

Nah. You going "That's your reason for voting me?!" implies that there are other, better reasons to vote for you. Can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't ever say something like that as town. Its just so weird.

ew

Why is the standard for how someone should play as town based off of what you would or wouldn't say as town....

[Zachstralkita]

is yakko's catch-up done?

[Zachstralkita]

@hi im yakko if so explain your SR on me or explain why you just popped in took jabs at a bunch of people and settled on me, either is fine

[Zachstralkita]

I'm not, but keep at it.

[Zachstralkita]

What did I do that changed your mind?

Nothing. It's just that nobody but zack seems to mind seeing you get lynched so you're either a mislynch or someone who's getting bussed. I don't want to vote you unless I'm sure which one it is.

Why does it matter to you what zack minds?

[Zachstralkita]

I like the fact that the both of you are double guessing your reads on Gamma. It seems townie. I doubt scum would buss/push Gamma this close to getting lynched then suddenly back off. Not only is it super risky to bus this early as scum, but I feel like scum would commit to the bussing instead of backing off as well. Further more, if you two were scum looking to hunt other scum, I feel as if you would commit to the Gamma lynching even if you begin to have doubts regarding how scummy they may actually be. Any kill is beneficial to you as long as it isn't one of your own. In short, lynch the possible scum/town player, then night kill your other/stronger scum reads that developed later in the day phase.

You both have good town leans for me.

Odd, considering your vote is on Gamma.

[Zachstralkita]

I like the fact that the both of you are double guessing your reads on Gamma. It seems townie. I doubt scum would buss/push Gamma this close to getting lynched then suddenly back off. Not only is it super risky to bus this early as scum, but I feel like scum would commit to the bussing instead of backing off as well. Further more, if you two were scum looking to hunt other scum, I feel as if you would commit to the Gamma lynching even if you begin to have doubts regarding how scummy they may actually be. Any kill is beneficial to you as long as it isn't one of your own. In short, lynch the possible scum/town player, then night kill your other/stronger scum reads that developed later in the day phase.

You both have good town leans for me.

Odd, considering your vote is on Gamma.

I don't see how this is odd at all. There's nothing inconsistent or even troublesome about scumreading Gamma while townreading someone for doing otherwise, especially not when Gamma is by far the leading wagon right now.

Obviously not at face value but I found something off about the way he worded it.

[Zachstralkita]

I mean I still want to lynch Mimikyu but everyone thinks I'm fucking deluded apparently

[Zachstralkita]

VOTE: Dunnstral

Actually in agreement with Gamma here about the opportunism. Eyeing Zach as well.

Are you joking? Me pointing out my thoughts isn't opportunistic.

That

is opportunistic.

[Zachstralkita]

hold the fuck up

Since I'm more free and more inclined to post here now I'll get into that

For the record I don't like this wagon right now and if anything want Dunnstral to post his reads. It's not that he's a scum impossibility to me, but that the lynch Gamma crowd has suddenly had a convenient revelation that would prompt the wagon switch at the same time and no one is addressing that. Oh, oh, because there's no opposition to the lynch it's so opportunistic and suddenly all of you want to switch?

w o w

, how convenient!

Does no one care? Or are you not caring on purpose? Quite fucking obviously there are strings being pulled.

That is the main factor. The other one is I don't actually have a game with Scum Dunnstral, well technically, but I'm very certain he plays very similar as both alignments. This is key. And there's lynches I'd much rather prefer.

Gamma

himself

hopped on his fucking counterwagon with no shame.

I don't know why people are giving me shit about still wanting to lynch my probably top scumread. Like he should have stopped being scum to me or something. Get the fuck out of here. Sorry guys, I don't fucking make up SRs when convenient to me. I felt strongly about Mimikyu when I voted him. I still feel strongly about it now. If you don't care then say so.

I'm not eyeing you for being opportunistic, I'm eyeing you because I have trouble crediting your misgivings about Aubrey's post as genuine.

Yeah Umlaut, we should just have the same opinions and feel the same way at the same time all the time so everything can be fine? Of what I post, what is the deductive method that allows you to determine what is genuine or not?

I'm actually starting to dislike Zach in #590. He's blamed Dunn for tunnelling him but all he does at this point is talk about Dunn and use it as an excuse not to talk about other stuff. But then he follows with a pretty good point on BTD in #593 so I don't know.

What you're not familiar with is that the norm for myself and Funnstral is to argue for a fuckton of pages and have people bitch at us. I tried to detract from that this game but eventually gave in to the relentless stream of shit. It's my fragile human soul. I can only take so much.

Of the people on Gamma's wagon, if I had to name someone suspicious, it's Jester based on that catch-up, but I'll wait for him to finish it to say what I have to say. The whole Aubrey situation is fucking bizarre because when I state an opinion based on my perception and not even attack or push, I'm in the wrong.


It might be that Fix-it Felix avatar that has my emotions going haywire, but I don't see the fuss about S_S. It looks like he's been shooting straight to me from here.

Yakko's been getting a free pass for not doing shit simply because "I'm scum", which is just dandy, isn't it?. I'm not too fond of when people say I'm scum and don't present their bullshit argument so I can go into precisely how bullshit it is. Please provide me with that common courtesy. Are you gonna say it's a gut read, bud? It doesn't make it any less obvious to anyone if you don't.

If you guys are fine with that I'm not gonna say shit because it's a testament to the amount of fuckery people condone this game. I'd definitely lynch there, though as opposed to these fucking options. BTD does not, to me, give the appearance of that scum who's under pressure. I think in his situation, scum that was trying to slide by would opt to acquiesce and attempt to post heavy content rather than still not doing that and still saying they'll be inactive. That's not someone who's deceiving us IMO.


Vax himself I need to get accustomed to his posts. However MeowMix was a very strong TR of mine and I liked his posts a lot.

[Zachstralkita]

That wasn't to say I think Gamma's scum necessarily, just that the entire way that played out fucking

reeked

.

[Zachstralkita]

@Dunn 868 I kinda feel the same but did you not diss me for still voting Mimikyu

[Zachstralkita]

Does a Zach/Dunn scumteam ping for anyone?

It seems like a stretch based on surface activity, but it somehow makes sense to me. Dunn tunnels Zach because he always tunnels Zach, but doesn't seem interested in actually convincing anyone to follow along. Zach calls out Dunn because he always calls out Dunn, but doesn't seem to know where to place himself with regard to the wagon---says it's a bad wagon but won't say he's townreading or even null on its target. (Surely lynching scum is more valuable than forming wagons in the most virtuous manner?) Zach has been disdaining the Gamma wagon, but when the alternative is Dunn that pisses him off even more. This could be scum looking for a way to save his buddy after inadvertently closing off his two most viable means (pushing a townread on Dunn, or pushing a scumread on his counterwagon).

I'm more spitballing here than saying "this is what's going on," but I find it compelling enough that I'd like to bounce it off y'all.

I don't acquiesce to shitty wagons just because they're the only ones people support.

Even I was a bit weirded out when Zach mentioned Gamma in that one liner. If that is such an issue for Zach, why is he still a town lean for him? He's going to call out a scummy action, but keep him in a town lean?

Were you not here for the part where I never wanted to lynch Gamma?


I don't know if you guys think that just because you townread someone, they can't do scummy shit and you can't call them out for it.


Umlaut, why are you looking to me now? Where was this suspicion before?



For fuck's sake.

[Zachstralkita]

Seriously, the main wagon flopped back to Gamma at the exact same time by the exact same people after I say something?

I must be in the fucking Twilight Zone.

[Zachstralkita]

It was because of Gamma, not because of you

The logic that follows to me is that Gamma's moves are apparently so scummy that they warranted a wagon on him in the first place by you all.


it is not a new revelation when he continues to act in such fashion.

[Zachstralkita]

What?

I never said I agreed with his reasons, if that's what you're referring to.

if you say someone's reads list is good, that's sort of at least maybe part of the implication.

Anyways,

1) We're not fucking no lynching at DL and I know you guys don't wanna speedlynch Mimikyu or Yakko

2) if you SR Umlaut I'd rather not rely on your judgement anyway(@Gamma)

3) Dunn's been stepping it up for the 2016. If it's Gamma or Dunn I pick Gamma.

Unless one of my dream wagons happens in a few hours, that's where my vote is going.

Also, who was it that scumread Aristophanes again?

[Zachstralkita]

Well, how many votes are on Dunnstral right now? He's not my first pick, but if it's the only option other than me I'm okay with lynching him.

[Zachstralkita]

That's brazy as shit.

Actually I have a question: Do you guys think scum would try to specifically figure out who's scum on the other faction and try to kill them?

Isn't it better for them to lynch the other scum team and nk town?

So do you think it's worth looking into what s_s/umlaut were pushing?

The respective scum factions would have killed them without knowing/thinking they were scum (this is an assumption, of course) which means they would have had other motivations for killing them

I don't remember the part where I voted umlaut though

ASide from the rvs vote at the start, you voted him again later on and here are some of the events happening around when you voted him:

Spoiler:

Incidentally, all of MeowMix's, BTD6's and Java's inactivity appear to be sitewide (their most recent posts are in this thread), so I don't think too much should be read into it.

Dunnstral, on the other hand, is being uncharacteristically quiet. He had 199 posts in day 1 of the first game I played with him and I believe he has a reputation for spamming the shit out of his games in general. Not sure whether this holds in his scum games as well since I have no meta there, but maybe someone else does?

(Not that I'm complaining about not having to deal with a 50-page monstrosity of a D1)

And speaking of early strong scumreads:

VOTE: Skold

Okay, so this is scum. I legit scumread every post they've made thus far. Something is just wrong here and it is the colour of their role PM.

Join me!

You haven't really talked at all about this read since you gave it on page 2. Can you go into more detail and also say how this read has progressed since then?

-----

Pedit: Aubrey, I'm about to go to lunch and haven't really thought much about Jester lately, I'll answer you in a bit.

Mixed feelings on Jester. I didn't like his intro as I already said. I pretty much agreed with his thoughts in 68 and his thoughts on Aubrey/Mimikyu. His 190 at first seems like a reach to me but I don't see any reason scum!Jester would reach for a reason to scumread Aubrey at that point when he hasn't been so much as leaning scum there before, so it's probably a genuine opinion (though could of course be a genuine wolfread from mafia or vice-versa).

Overall null, which is annoying because I kind of expected to form a stronger opinion there.

VOTE: Zachstralkita

I've seen this guy as town quite a bit and let me tell you... he's not town this game

40% chance of being right

I'd like to hear a more in depth analysis on this from you.

Pretty damn confirmed. Found a scumteam guys.

Lets hear it then.

Where is Javajoe26 and BTD6_Maker? One could almost forget they are part of this game.

In depth analysis isn't exactly my forte

I think he's playing like he does as scum in this game

What was addressed was that BlackStar strawmanned and deflected what Umlaut conveyed better in #176 than apparently I have in all my posts. I'm quite sure we all know how " strong " his scumread is. No one is feigning ignorance of anything at this point.

Keep using random buzzwords, pal

Incidentally, all of MeowMix's, BTD6's and Java's inactivity appear to be sitewide (their most recent posts are in this thread), so I don't think too much should be read into it.

Dunnstral, on the other hand, is being uncharacteristically quiet. He had 199 posts in day 1 of the first game I played with him and I believe he has a reputation for spamming the shit out of his games in general. Not sure whether this holds in his scum games as well since I have no meta there, but maybe someone else does?

I don't post less as scum
You called me out in tic tac toe mafia too for "being too analytical"

Spoiler tag removed
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=67083
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=66931
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=66795

If you're still wondering, take a look at my post counts across those games

Okay, enough. This has gone on for FAR too long. I don't really find BlackStar's actions that suspicious, but I definitely find Zachstralkita to be. He keeps trying to derail the discussion onto BlackStar. I don't see any reason town would try to do this.
VOTE: Zach

This is a weird and dramatic post

That's not how anything works, and you don't decide when something starts or stops.

VOTE: Zachstralkita

Just to reiterate: I think Zach is a member of an anti-town faction that opposes the town

Zach looks town to me and his argument with BlackStar looks TvT after rereading.

Not a huge fan of Gamma and Dunnstral.

Liking Mimikyu and MeowMix.

I don't see the motivation behind Dunnstral's vote on Zach (besides his early meta read which isn't worth much imo).
Like, the only thing I agree with him on is his comment about Gamma's vote but he's not the first person to point it out.

Dunn hasn't adressed any specific parts of Zach's ISO and doesn't seem to have read the game much:

What was addressed was that BlackStar strawmanned and deflected what Umlaut conveyed better in #176 than apparently I have in all my posts. I'm quite sure we all know how " strong " his scumread is. No one is feigning ignorance of anything at this point.

Keep using random buzzwords, pal

These "random buzzwords" was Zach paraphasing Umlaut's #176, which is even written in the quote you've provided. I don't get what you were trying to do here, make Zach look incompetent?

VOTE: Dunnstral

I know I'm one to talk but wow you guys have effectively done nothing

It seems you have picked up on this, but yes you don't have much of a right to say that. You had an opportunity to do something when you came in and instead sheeped Gamma.

Still dislike Umlaut; he's scum. Don't like Aubrey, but coming around to him as potentially town that just annoys me. On board with others on Zach being possible scum. He can have time to shape up though. Don't care for MeowMix's re-entrance. Comes in like he's doing something, but just starts a new wagon on someone with no real suspicion. Makes no effort to comment on anything else that has happened.

Yeah, I can see Umlaut being scum.

VOTE: umlaut

In other news BlackStar votes Umlaut for being competent.

I don't understand why you're doing nothing but taking pot shots at me. It's really annoying

@umlaut Calling people dipshits, passive aggressively casting shade on people and acting way too smug isn't abrasive?

@umlaut Calling people dipshits, passive aggressively casting shade on people and acting way too smug isn't abrasive?

"Too smug" is kind of a judgment call.

And yeah I guess it is, but I'm pretty desensitized to it by now. You've been on MS exactly as long as I have, aren't you?

Yeah, I've probably played more games than you too. Doesn't change the fact that it's still annoying when people do it. Especially when those people tend to be wrong about everything

You kind of just say "yeah he could be scum" without going into why you voted him (I quoted things related to him from before you voted)
Then you don't really push him but instead get into a little slapfight with him

On the other hand, this reminds me that Zach tends to like to hard defend his scum buddies as scum, rather than bus them. I could definitely see Zach as mafia with Umlaut

I could definitely see you smoking crack out of tinfoil in a Pepsi can. In fact, I just imagine it that way. Makes things easier for me.



Anyways, I townread Umlaut cause I liked a lot of what he said. I may have been kinda biased because he was the only one acting like he had a fucking head on his shoulders in regard to what I was saying to BlackStar at the beginning of the game. Umlaut being scum does not disparage the fact that most of you guys were acting like you were fresh out of the loony bin.

Either way, this is probably the best thing that could have happened. Now these goofy scumbutts are on their toes, and Dunn takes another jab at me for no apparent reason. Please Dunn, display more of your super thought capabilities.

I'm actually pissed because I liked both S_S and Umlaut.





obligatory gif of my hero

[Zachstralkita]

Actually Dunn, I'm pleased to see I'm not the only one you've addressed. You've upgraded from crack to like.. coke.

[Zachstralkita]

Actually Dunn, I'm pleased to see I'm not the only one you've addressed. You've upgraded from crack to like.. coke.

I barely mentioned you compared to the rest of the stuff I wrote out, and what I wrote was justified

That I defend my scum buddies? Sure. You act like people can't deliberately play against or toward their meta though, which again reinforces my notion that you take crack smoke directly into your lungs and hold for a good 3-5 seconds.

I'm not too upset about it tho, you spongebob pineapple ass motherfucker.

I wasn't acting looney either, I was getting voted by and pushed by scum

and aubrey, gamma

all of day 1 and I actually brought up what I feel to be very strong evidence against something_smart (I would have definitely been pushing him today)

None of the loonies think they're acting looney. That's why they never let you the fuck out.

Do you still think Mimikyu is scum?

Think about this question.

Now answer it.

[Zachstralkita]

is mimikyu your boy

[Zachstralkita]

I don't believe that reasoning exactly follows, Dunn. It's like you're presenting me a solved puzzle when you don't have all the pieces.

Wow look at you go you fucking superstar, you were right about S_S. great. you're a sleuth now?


I seriously don't buy that shit. But whatever, for now... because we have..


VOTE: hi im Yakko

lets go mofucka

[Zachstralkita]

Don't tell me what the fuck is OK, Dunn-sama

Yakko and what you have said don't have shit to do with each other.

All yakko did was pop in and go " YAHOY MINOY ZACK IS SCUM" and YOU yellow starburst eating FUCKS let that slide. And I'd wager you will continue to do so. why is THAT OK?


Each scum team is 2 members, right? Regardless of what the fuck happened with Mimikyu and Umlaut I don't see why you act like the other scum partner having an influence on that kill is an impossibility. Or that scum didn't orchestrate something. You probably think you have it figured out, but I think there's other variables at play could have been going on in minds of the scum that 1) we potentially don't know 2) we're not considering or attempting to consider.

What I hate about you is you always write people off as town like you got some super duper KYOKO KIRIGIRI READS when u don't. I saw what you wrote. SURE, there's merit there. I don't believe it locks dude off as town. If anything I want to see what he has today.

I don't know anything about Mimikyu. If I recall correctly, the last time I saw Umlaut as scum I thought he was town. Not sure why that's relevant, but I felt I had to say it.


I also liked Yung MeowMix's posts very much sir

Vax was really eh tho, but MEOWMIX was like the pinnacle of town if I had to rank him

[Zachstralkita]

I know what it means, Dunn.

I do admire you, you catgirl master.

[Zachstralkita]

Or I can just be trying to get your guard down cause when I catch you lacking in your neighborhood you will get the quick hands boii. Think I won't pull up. Think Im not there right now.

[Zachstralkita]

You'll notice that I'm usually write about people being town. Much more often than I'm right about people being scum (

See: game where I was vig

)

AHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAHGHAHAAHAA




It's cool when I do it because save for some rare exceptions that happen at very unfortunate times for me, I'm usually right when I say it.

Like NY 196? Ya boys townreads were on point like a decimal.

Each scum team is 2 members, right? Regardless of what the fuck happened with Mimikyu and Umlaut I don't see why you act like the other scum partner having an influence on that kill is an impossibility. Or that scum didn't orchestrate something. You probably think you have it figured out, but I think there's other variables at play could have been going on in minds of the scum that 1) we potentially don't know 2) we're not considering or attempting to consider.

But I did consider what scum must have been thinking. Very much so. I'm saying I don't think S_S would have targeted someone the thought was mafia, and neither would Mimikyu.

What is the basis for what you think those two gentlemen would have been doing? You went in their brains and shit?

[Zachstralkita]

I know they were scumreads, god damn it.

And they were bad.

Do we really need to have the Wake discussion here? Can we just not?

[Zachstralkita]

vax, is lurk = scumtell?




Ari, current thoughts?

[Zachstralkita]

Not really when crack became a thing it blew up because it was that straight FIEND shit most likely invented by the CIA

[Zachstralkita]

Also, reminder to Investigatives that if you have a guilty, you may as well out it as there is only one person left on each team!

Why did you feel the need to say this.


ping.

[Zachstralkita]

VOTE: zach

VOTE: zach

Why'd you vote for him?

"Because he's scum"

[Zachstralkita]

Can we "stretch" the rope around his neck or are you guys just gonna not care

[Zachstralkita]

Unfortunately Yakko doesn't actually feel like scum to me right now. I don't see scum making this outlandish of a push. Brings unnecessary heat.

Judging by the fact that no one besides me is trying to lynch him, I'd say there is no heat.


You're #2, by the way.

[Zachstralkita]

Not that you had cause to be, given my convincing skills.

[Zachstralkita]

Black, did you case Ari? Cause I kinda like Ari.

...but I also kinda liked Umlaut... and SS...

[Zachstralkita]

the burden of proof is on the "lynch Ari" camp, buddy.

I've liked his posts and tone throughout most of the game and never saw a reason to not like them.

[Zachstralkita]

Black, did you case Ari? Cause I kinda like Ari.

...but I also kinda liked Umlaut... and SS...

From early on, I didn't like the feeling that his posts gave, but I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt on day 1. But if you look through his ISO, he really hasn't done much at all. And when he made that post on this page where he said "I should start doing stuff now" it kind of rubbed me the wrong way because he should've been doing stuff this whole time. I think he needs pressure

....so what do you think about BTD then

the burden of proof is on the "lynch Ari" camp, buddy.

I've liked his posts and tone throughout most of the game and never saw a reason to not like them.

pls stop trolling my game, I started putting a sizeable amount of effort here

this ain't your game, buttercup

[Zachstralkita]

so Aristophanes is scummier than BTD6 to you?

[Zachstralkita]

Incidentally, when I become a low effort poster, as I am currently, I also become a low effort lynch, which scum love to jump upon.

Why do you think scum would jump on you and not BTD6? Vaxkiller? Yakko?

Please explain why you think scum are more likely to be after you for a lynch

Aristophanes is a lynch people can do and say that they're putting effort into it even if no effort is required. When you and BlackStar said you preferred his lynch to BTD, I was so dumbfounded that I chose not to comment. No one else chose to comment, which means you all are either equally crazy or scum is successfully manipulating the lynch (if even unintentionally)

Vaxkiller does not belong in a pile with BTD6 and Yakko.(who should be our lynch today, but please carry on with your shitty wagons)


Why does Aubrey seem like he's neutral when interacting with

everyone

? Did no one else notice this?

[Zachstralkita]

:-/ neutral?

As in you interact with every single person like they're all on the same level in your head. That's just how it came off to me.

[Zachstralkita]

Why do you like it?

[Zachstralkita]

It's not about hidden pretenses. If you read someone a certain way, how you talk to them should indicate as such not only in your tonal disposition but in the way you ask your questions and how you respond to them.

But if you already, say,

know

their alignment, providing the appearance that you don't and tailoring your posting style to match is significantly more difficult to maintain on the regular.

Just thinking out loud.

[Zachstralkita]

Aubrey is not at -that- level to me, otherwise I should just be voting for him, but it's definitely something that struck me as odd and what I don't like to see.

However people have been giving him shit since the start of the game for the way he posts so I have to factor that into the equation. Some people just come off weird to others.

[Zachstralkita]

Aha u thought I wasnt WAITING for this shit

Why are you voting Zach?

his whole thing with blackstar day 1 like what is thep oint of it?? it's not only useless and irrelevant it's just zack trying to say haha I'm smarter than you with my awesome wordplay xd hehe. generally everytihng he says is iioa. his random vote stays on meowmix for a decent while. and reflecting on day one zack defended umlaut. and they voted togetherish.

I was looking for the merit here but there is none. Your main point is my BlackStar argument? Really? I'm supposed to defend myself against you not liking the way I posted something because you thought it was useless? ok bud. reply to me in assenting fashion if you want me to make a post detailing the different levels of bullshit in that theory. I initially made that argument for (whatever reason i did it for, i forgot by now) and I stood by it then so I'm obviously going to stand by it now.

Ya, I defended Umlaut. I tend to defend my townreads. Shocker.

Why are you voting Zach?

his whole thing with blackstar day 1 like what is thep oint of it?? it's not only useless and irrelevant it's just zack trying to say haha I'm smarter than you with my awesome wordplay xd hehe. generally everytihng he says is iioa. his random vote stays on meowmix for a decent while. and reflecting on day one zack defended umlaut. and they voted togetherish.

also looking back you have to wonder why did he move his vote from black star to mimikyu. where is the sense or town motivation. if I am so guilty of not complying with giving my read for why someone is scum then isn't zach just as guilty for not explaining why mimi or black or me is scum?

I have explained why Mimikyu and you are scum in the past.

I explained why I didn't like BlackStar when that whole situation was still a thing.

So... no.

And, no.

[Zachstralkita]

@zach you've done no such thing try harder

gee, reading hard.

mkay

VOTE: MeowMix

i have no fucking words for you

Why do you believe that mimikyu is scum again?

I'm sure you've given reasons, just a rehash would be nice

going into bad posts

Spoiler:

I know I'm one to talk but wow you guys have effectively done nothing

It seems you have picked up on this, but yes you don't have much of a right to say that. You had an opportunity to do something when you came in and instead sheeped Gamma.

Still dislike Umlaut; he's scum. Don't like Aubrey, but coming around to him as potentially town that just annoys me. On board with others on Zach being possible scum. He can have time to shape up though. Don't care for MeowMix's re-entrance. Comes in like he's doing something, but just starts a new wagon on someone with no real suspicion. Makes no effort to comment on anything else that has happened.

what a wonderful post. " yeah, zach had better shape up before i use my overpowering sway to get him lynched because im TOWN. me and the rest of the TOWN are going to lynch him. "

the way he analyzed meowmix's re-entrance is how scum would do it. the re-entrance in question is when meowmix briefly engages gamma before placing a vote on him ( asking how he would feel about it)

@Mimikyu: Nobody up until now has said much about Gamma that I recall. This to me is a new take on things, cause they could just have parroted something that has already occurred. If you are unsatisfied with Meowmix's lack of responding to current events, then maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea poke and prod them.

@Ümläüt: There really isn't a need to be abrasive in this game. However, @Blackstar even you've been abrasive when you say a post is stupid and what not.

Sorry I actually misread that first part as talking about Dunnstral before. MeowMix may have had a new take, but it was one that was sure to go nowhere I think. No one else had expressed interest in anything close to a Gamma vote. Just felt like adding to something knowing that it would likely be brushed off.

here he implies that meowmix does something for an agenda to try to be perceived a certain way in everyone's eyes -- not just trying to gamesolve in his own manner. blatant doubtcasting

For MeowMix it doesn't feel good. It feels like someone entering the game, pretending to be an active participant, but avoiding getting involved with anything with any real weight.

For MeowMix

it doesn't feel good? But, what, for someone else it might?

In general, do you find effort to be alignment-indicative? Because I don't.

No of course not, but this has little to do with effort. It has to do with the illusion of effort.

I too enjoy taking events and portraying them only from the perspective that benefits and comes the most naturally to me.

Out of those who have attacked BlackStar who are you not scumreading?

I'll tell you who I am scumreading and you can decide from there. You, Zach, MeowMix. Others that have slight scumreads have more to do with them not saying much, but I'd rather not highlight them for that since I'm likely just falling into a trap there.

You will note that after he lists his " scumreads " he does not attempt to push any of them even once past from there. I don't know if he's solidly pushed one of them this game. View the ISO.

Having a take that goes nowhere is not a bad thing at all.

You should take this point up with Mimikyu, who is happy to hand out a scumread based on it.

Mafia 101: We are not looking for scummy actions. We are looking for scummy

intentions

.

The action combined with the context of this game, the timing, his post history, and my gut lead me to believe that the action was done with scummy intentions. It is not just about an action. No action is scummy in a vacuum.

this is one of those posts that sounds good, but then you actually use your eyes and look at it and its the worst shit ever.


The stances he takes are never backed up solidly. rather, he takes stances that he can back out of and he has only recently appeared in game to poke around at some people's posts and not make moves on his SRs. and people are callling out BTD for not giving content?

his posts have been pinging me oddly all game. and this is the part where someones going to say im wking meowmix and dunnstral says my case is shit. go ahead

this is where the bulk of my SR came from day one. And Mimikyu's subsequent posts have done

nothing

to improve the read. They just give off more of that vibe that I don't like. Hence, I still want to lynch him.


I want to lynch YOU, however because I said you were scum pretty much when you entered and I followed up, though not in depth, in #1036. Basically you doing really nothing save for pushing me and not trying to gamesolve speaks for itself. I do not have to case that. But no one seems to give a shit. So, whatever. I'm confident we land at least one scum in one of you two.

I also never firmly held Blackstar as a scumread except for a fleeting portion of Day 1, so...

[Zachstralkita]

This game is starting to feel a bit dead. Maybe it's just today. I for one am not exactly bothered by Zach's push against Mimiyku. I don't know how likely he is to be scum, but I'd like to hear more out of him. Umlaut seemed determined to get a bandwagon going against 'em if memory serves correctly. I question the likelihood of them being a team due to that. Then again he white knighted my ass like crazy, so maybe he'd "black knight" his scum member. Granted that last line probably doesn't mean as much to you all as it does me.

I'm actually not really bothered by it either. Doesn't necessarily feel like scum, especially with how hard he's sticking to it despite zero traction.

Do you think you'd be bothered by the feeling of rope near your vocal cord area

I would like to find out

Aubrey did start the main push on Dunn but the interesting point is that he then switched right back to Gamma later. Aristo voted Dunn much later and also switched back.

I don't get the case about me being scum with Umlaut on some flimsy interactions that can be explained by my Real Life.

Inactivity due to Real Life is anti-Town but it is not lurking and is NAI, not scummy. (It is anti-Town because it hurts Town, but there is not much I could have done about it). People assume that since circumstances out of my control are hurting Town, they must be scummy. There is no correlation between getting assigned a Role PM randomly and having a busy schedule. This is why I view Vaxkiller's push as scummy.

Where is the disconnect between anti-town and scummy?

Anti-town actions work against the interest of the town.

Scummy actions also work against the interest of the town.

Would you not agree?

[Zachstralkita]

FTR I didn't read it like that

[Zachstralkita]

i think the issue people take with btd is stuff like

I don't get the case about me being scum with Umlaut on some flimsy interactions that can be explained by my Real Life.

which is trying to justify those interactions soley off the merit of this explanation

like we get it you were inactive but how do you say you won't sub out because you are able to and will produce content

when a primary reason for your lynch is not producing content? you can't say you

don't get

it, even if you quite obviously disagree


That being said the reason I haven't voted for BTD is that something about his tone has felt resoundingly town to me throughout this game. Just the way he speaks. Sorry.

[Zachstralkita]

Why did dude ASK if he should claim at L-1?

but the lack of CC tho..

[Zachstralkita]

they, my bad

[Zachstralkita]

no you genius the correct procedure is to speedlynch yakko..



is there a solid case on ari?

[Zachstralkita]

i'm confused as to how ari is being scumread

Rather how can you think yakko is more likely scum than ari?

I can ask you the same question in reverse order

where is the basis for what you are saying to me

[Zachstralkita]

Ari has been slimy all game long and there's been something off about the way he says things

I can see him being mafia or werewolf

I've played with him before and he feels like scum here

Just a moment ago he was pushing his own counterwagon

You're parked on a wagon by yourself while someone else got to l-1

that someone else was someone i did not fancy voting because I fucking TOWNREAD him

I only ever found a few odd things in his posts and the fact that he asked to claim at L-1. those are the only things wrong with BTD.

[Zachstralkita]

... your exact words

You're parked on a wagon by yourself while someone else got to l-1

I replied to them because you thought them in your head then typed them into this text box then directed them at me like it meant something

So I replied to it

like it meant something


and then you say I'm purposely going off topic... Okay...

[Zachstralkita]

this man did not react to the votes on him at all..

[Zachstralkita]

your non-reaction

[Zachstralkita]

Zach has also abstained from all wagonning, and instead vanity votes elsewhere. What do you think that means?

Why do you have to attach an intrinsic meaning to it? I didn't really like where the major wagons were going day one. Cause they were kinda shit.

Don't know yet but we can find out if you want

Detective #2 on the case again.

Also yakko hasn't appeared save to switch votes and he still holds a great TR in all of your hearts... Nice one, guys.

[Zachstralkita]

My bad guys been ghost for a minute


Why arent we just lynching Yakko lol

[Zachstralkita]

I liked MeowMix's posts...

[Zachstralkita]

I liked MeowMix's posts...

No offense to meowmix, but you might be the only one. Even I thought they were weird and would have looked into it.

To clarify I know this is the slot I came into, but I have no idea what they were doing.

Maybe you've answered this question already, why did you like MX's posts Zach?

Everyone saw them as weird or something. I have no clue how. His interaction with you(I think it was you) was pretty good.

[Zachstralkita]

hi user gammerald how would you feel if I decided to put a vote on you

oh i got you confused with gamma

[Zachstralkita]

you could see the town motivation behind it if you looked

i don't expect YOU to see it however, dunnn is the guy that vigged Wake88 when he claimed PGO... smfh

[Zachstralkita]

and wake flipped town

[Zachstralkita]

The point was, you weren't able to discern why his fakeclaim, albeit a fakeclaim in itself, was town. That indicated a lot to me about your judgement.... or lack thereof.

Also compounded by you fakeclaiming masons on Day 1, which, you know, we won't even get into here.

[Zachstralkita]

no i said that to say that thats why you dont like that meowmix interaction

because you can't read between the lines

[Zachstralkita]

do you read anything i say dunn

[Zachstralkita]

Zach, where do you stand on the two campaigns exactly now. They are both at L2.

It would appear I will have to be voting one of them. I am only deciding whether or not MeowMix's play was as townie as I think it was to have that slot be town to me. And matching Aristophanes against this. I am only deciding.

I also can't shake that the main reason you are after him is simply because he is against you. Or at least that is how it seems.

I cannot shake how easy it is to say something like that.

you could see the town motivation behind it if you looked

i don't expect YOU to see it however, dunnn is the guy that vigged Wake88 when he claimed PGO... smfh

But, if you couldn't remember who he was interacting with, how can you conclude that it was a good interaction driven by town motivation? Quoting what he said and why you think it as town worthy would be nice.

that's a misnomer. the name was just a formality. it doesn't change the interaction at all. i'll do this in the next post.

You say you liked his play so far, but you also liked both Umlaut's and SS's play. Shouldn't you then be more interested in finding out why he is being scum read and re-evauluating him instead of just sticking with "

I liked him so far?

" It seems like you simply don't care.

Aristophanes' posting and tone sticks out more to me than his actual actions. Meanwhile I've been kinda confused on Vaxkiller. See top of post in regard to this decision. This is why I'm thinking about it now. Have to skim ISOs.

[Zachstralkita]

It would appear I will have to be voting one of them. I am only deciding whether or not MeowMix's play was as townie as I think it was to have that slot be town to me. And matching Aristophanes against this. I am only deciding.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but your basing your opinion solely on how meowmix played the slot?

no but that's a major part of it because it's been hard for me to determine a read on you for some reason...

[Zachstralkita]

the speed yakko wagon!!1

[Zachstralkita]

is there some process of thought that leads you all to believe yakko is locktown... I'm just wondering..

[Zachstralkita]

nah im against whats going on here.

u would think with all the firm conclusions that everyone was firmly wrong about we wouldnt rush for this stuff again which I fear is going to have the same outcome.

Also holy shit. I forgot Mimikyu was still in this game

[Zachstralkita]

I had to go back and read that dumb shit. SMH

[Zachstralkita]

I had to go back and read that dumb shit. SMH

Hope you're referring to Yakko; and not me

i am

if im not mistaken what he said could only make remote sense if ari is one of scum

[Zachstralkita]

yeah sorry just trying to reconcile how exactly I can be the one that shouldered the blame for yesterday and am gamethrowing. I've also gotten sort of tired.. You guys can BTD6 me and I'll pop in with stuff when like. I feel it's gone too far.

[Zachstralkita]

Spoiler:

VOTE: Aristo

-1

Anyone else notice Aubrey has been on literally every wagon

VOTE: aubrey

VOTE: aristo

Ugh Its

VOTE: Hi im yakko

??

VOTE: vaxkiller for the omgus

I found the above pattern of Yakko votes odd. The way he just switched on a dime was weird. Not the act of vote hopping itself. Maybe looking at the motivation behind it.

Then it wouldn't be VCA it would be content analysis

The two go hand in hand do they not?

hint analyzing vote counts is vote count analysis. Not what prompted the vote or why the vote was placed.

If one is not going to even consider the reasons/motives for the votes in the first place, then I can't say it is strong reasoning. If anything it would be that of a gut read then.

How does having reasons to vote someone exculpate you from being scum? Even better how does having strong reasons to vote someone exculpate you at all?

Eager snake says you might be scum because of vca your response is I don't think vca is all that strong a reasoning to think someone is scum. hmmmmmmmm

Aristo should have died yesterday. 100%. What can you do against VI townie? No counterplay. zero counterplay actually. It didn't help that zach was potentially game throwing. Oh well. Nothing to do against someones ego no counterplay again there. feelsbadman. If anything hopefully this cements zach as not playing for the town and hopefully zach is that much closer to a lynch.

tl;dr zach and aristo needed death way sooner.

I feel like this game is unwinnable somehow for scum/ww It feels to many town sided roles and crossfire. Well if we were good at this game I mean.

Then he says this as if to infer that I am more responsible for this sorry state of affairs than he is. Rather, that he's not responsible for it at all when instead if you look at his Day 2 you find his activity not sparse but sporadic. His early Day 2 is him popping in to take shots at me.

Why are you voting Zach?

his whole thing with blackstar day 1 like what is thep oint of it?? it's not only useless and irrelevant it's just zack trying to say haha I'm smarter than you with my awesome wordplay xd hehe. generally everytihng he says is iioa. his random vote stays on meowmix for a decent while. and reflecting on day one zack defended umlaut. and they voted togetherish.

also looking back you have to wonder why did he move his vote from black star to mimikyu. where is the sense or town motivation. if I am so guilty of not complying with giving my read for why someone is scum then isn't zach just as guilty for not explaining why mimi or black or me is scum?

then my reply

Aha u thought I wasnt WAITING for this shit

Why are you voting Zach?

his whole thing with blackstar day 1 like what is thep oint of it?? it's not only useless and irrelevant it's just zack trying to say haha I'm smarter than you with my awesome wordplay xd hehe. generally everytihng he says is iioa. his random vote stays on meowmix for a decent while. and reflecting on day one zack defended umlaut. and they voted togetherish.

I was looking for the merit here but there is none. Your main point is my BlackStar argument? Really? I'm supposed to defend myself against you not liking the way I posted something because you thought it was useless? ok bud. reply to me in assenting fashion if you want me to make a post detailing the different levels of bullshit in that theory. I initially made that argument for (whatever reason i did it for, i forgot by now) and I stood by it then so I'm obviously going to stand by it now.

Ya, I defended Umlaut. I tend to defend my townreads. Shocker.

Why are you voting Zach?

his whole thing with blackstar day 1 like what is thep oint of it?? it's not only useless and irrelevant it's just zack trying to say haha I'm smarter than you with my awesome wordplay xd hehe. generally everytihng he says is iioa. his random vote stays on meowmix for a decent while. and reflecting on day one zack defended umlaut. and they voted togetherish.

also looking back you have to wonder why did he move his vote from black star to mimikyu. where is the sense or town motivation. if I am so guilty of not complying with giving my read for why someone is scum then isn't zach just as guilty for not explaining why mimi or black or me is scum?

I have explained why Mimikyu and you are scum in the past.

I explained why I didn't like BlackStar when that whole situation was still a thing.

So... no.

And, no.

his reply to the last part of my post:

@zach you've done no such thing try harder

then when I point out I have, in fact, done such thing:

@zach you've done no such thing try harder

gee, reading hard.

mkay

VOTE: MeowMix

i have no fucking words for you

Why do you believe that mimikyu is scum again?

I'm sure you've given reasons, just a rehash would be nice

going into bad posts

Spoiler:

I know I'm one to talk but wow you guys have effectively done nothing

It seems you have picked up on this, but yes you don't have much of a right to say that. You had an opportunity to do something when you came in and instead sheeped Gamma.

Still dislike Umlaut; he's scum. Don't like Aubrey, but coming around to him as potentially town that just annoys me. On board with others on Zach being possible scum. He can have time to shape up though. Don't care for MeowMix's re-entrance. Comes in like he's doing something, but just starts a new wagon on someone with no real suspicion. Makes no effort to comment on anything else that has happened.

what a wonderful post. " yeah, zach had better shape up before i use my overpowering sway to get him lynched because im TOWN. me and the rest of the TOWN are going to lynch him. "

the way he analyzed meowmix's re-entrance is how scum would do it. the re-entrance in question is when meowmix briefly engages gamma before placing a vote on him ( asking how he would feel about it)

@Mimikyu: Nobody up until now has said much about Gamma that I recall. This to me is a new take on things, cause they could just have parroted something that has already occurred. If you are unsatisfied with Meowmix's lack of responding to current events, then maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea poke and prod them.

@Ümläüt: There really isn't a need to be abrasive in this game. However, @Blackstar even you've been abrasive when you say a post is stupid and what not.

Sorry I actually misread that first part as talking about Dunnstral before. MeowMix may have had a new take, but it was one that was sure to go nowhere I think. No one else had expressed interest in anything close to a Gamma vote. Just felt like adding to something knowing that it would likely be brushed off.

here he implies that meowmix does something for an agenda to try to be perceived a certain way in everyone's eyes -- not just trying to gamesolve in his own manner. blatant doubtcasting

For MeowMix it doesn't feel good. It feels like someone entering the game, pretending to be an active participant, but avoiding getting involved with anything with any real weight.

For MeowMix

it doesn't feel good? But, what, for someone else it might?

In general, do you find effort to be alignment-indicative? Because I don't.

No of course not, but this has little to do with effort. It has to do with the illusion of effort.

I too enjoy taking events and portraying them only from the perspective that benefits and comes the most naturally to me.

Out of those who have attacked BlackStar who are you not scumreading?

I'll tell you who I am scumreading and you can decide from there. You, Zach, MeowMix. Others that have slight scumreads have more to do with them not saying much, but I'd rather not highlight them for that since I'm likely just falling into a trap there.

You will note that after he lists his " scumreads " he does not attempt to push any of them even once past from there. I don't know if he's solidly pushed one of them this game. View the ISO.

Having a take that goes nowhere is not a bad thing at all.

You should take this point up with Mimikyu, who is happy to hand out a scumread based on it.

Mafia 101: We are not looking for scummy actions. We are looking for scummy

intentions

.

The action combined with the context of this game, the timing, his post history, and my gut lead me to believe that the action was done with scummy intentions. It is not just about an action. No action is scummy in a vacuum.

this is one of those posts that sounds good, but then you actually use your eyes and look at it and its the worst shit ever.


The stances he takes are never backed up solidly. rather, he takes stances that he can back out of and he has only recently appeared in game to poke around at some people's posts and not make moves on his SRs. and people are callling out BTD for not giving content?

his posts have been pinging me oddly all game. and this is the part where someones going to say im wking meowmix and dunnstral says my case is shit. go ahead

this is where the bulk of my SR came from day one. And Mimikyu's subsequent posts have done

nothing

to improve the read. They just give off more of that vibe that I don't like. Hence, I still want to lynch him.


I want to lynch YOU, however because I said you were scum pretty much when you entered and I followed up, though not in depth, in #1036. Basically you doing really nothing save for pushing me and not trying to gamesolve speaks for itself. I do not have to case that. But no one seems to give a shit. So, whatever. I'm confident we land at least one scum in one of you two.

I also never firmly held Blackstar as a scumread except for a fleeting portion of Day 1, so...

...he suddenly fucks off and we never return to the topic again. That's an effective way to carry out an argument.



then the remainder of his day 2 is him " engaging " with aubrey somewhat and then that vote string. But I don't think he really feels strong about Aubrey at all. Because today he's said relatively little. And while I have posted no content the "content" he has posted hardly places him in a position that higher above me. Despite the fact that you guys don't care, I'd still much rather lynch my SR as always instead of dicking around with Aristophanes (or Aubrey) for a whole nother day.


VOTE: yakko


on the whole partner interactions thing. maybe sometimes it's not the best way to find scum because you don't know the dynamic that x player and x player will form as a team. You look at the game with certain intentions in mind and you try to put all the pieces together when in reality the actual picture could be nothing close to what you imagined. Despite the fact that we have a single flip for each scum team, that could bias us even more. I haven't really seen anyone address the Jester NK. Like maybe... what reason would one have specifically to target him? Or was he killed on a whim?

anyways VCA sucks even more. That is, when you use it primarily.

[Zachstralkita]

If there is a Sorceror it is {Dunn, Mimikyu, Yakko, Zach}. Eagersnake and Aristophanes are almost certainly not PR by my results. Thus this is an added bonus to lynching Aristo today. (Unless you want to lynch Eagersnake, which I don't).

Did you just narrow down the amount of who could be PR?

And you thought this was a

good

idea?

FTR I don't believe Snake is looking too hot here either.

[Zachstralkita]

I just didn't like how you addressed Aubrey that one time

[Zachstralkita]

Yeah mimikyus lynching Yakko so I think we'll postpone the lynching of Mimikyu

[Zachstralkita]

We gotta ride on this Yakko momentum before Dunn's crazy talk puts you guys back in shambles

[Zachstralkita]

don't town lose incredibly townsided games by adhering to a very fucked up PoE

also thats a lot of speculation on my part. I hope you guys are having fun.

@Dunn who are you wanting to lynch again

no point in claiming it's fairly obv what I am.

and if you must? lul

Why didn't you ever address Zach's case on you?

would me responding to zach convince you of anything important? the 'case' is not even that good.

yea its a shame ur about to take this L with minimal effort on my part

[Zachstralkita]

You fucks.

[Zachstralkita]

What was the talk of deadline for? There were about 6 days left.

[Zachstralkita]

VOTE: yakko

Ya lets do that thing I've been talking about the whole fucking game

[Zachstralkita]

I can presume Mafia killed Aubrey as I cannot see it being optimal for a wolf to kill Aubrey. Unless we kill Mafia today my death is certain.

What about Werewolves though? If Mafia killed Aubrey then either Werewolves ran a No Kill gambit (with no Stalkers, there is no reason for this) or their kill was protected by a Town Guardian. Hence I can presume a Town Guardian exists.

Yakko went nowhere. I can probably presume he is not Mafia. If he is a wolf he is probably the Roleblocker, in which case I can understand his action as he feared having to claim and being counterclaimed.

This time we want to lynch Mafia. I can probably clear Yakko of this (possibly Eagersnake, though that is less likely). If we do not my death is certain and we are left with just a Guardian.

VOTE: Mimikyu

Isn't the other option that both scum targeted Aubrey?

[Zachstralkita]

PoEing a pool of 5 is easier though.

[Zachstralkita]

Actual game content: I think it's possible both these guys are scum

Zach what are your thoughts... aside from yakko

didnt see this

well i was thinking snake to be honest. mimikyu is looking better to me

[Zachstralkita]

how,. Because he agrees with my yakko read?

[Zachstralkita]

And I've got some issues to work through there I go again, pretending to be you

[Zachstralkita]

What did you do to me. I've been playing that song all day

[Zachstralkita]

....No.

[Zachstralkita]

Because he latched onto eager when it became an option

He's not voting yakko.

I'm not voting Yakko because it's clear the work that would need to be put in to try and overcoming the current sentiment toward a Yakko lynch. Work that requires time I don't have.

You see the VC, right?

Fuck.

[Zachstralkita]

the legend himself

[Zachstralkita]

I propose a stay of execution on yakko's slot because he is now Zulfy


VOTE: eagerSnake

[Zachstralkita]

how is 1 vote a wagon

[Zachstralkita]

...I was pushing it too earlier

Why did your opinion change?

Because yakko is now Zulfy

and I've liked Mimikyu today actually... probably because he wanted to lynch yakko before he was Zulfy

[Zachstralkita]

No I mean

Why did your opinion on Eagersnake change

not sure it changed. it has been fluctuating since its inception.

Did you not really think that yakko was scum..?

no I did but he's Zulfy now so I'm probably not lynching him in the near future

[Zachstralkita]

in my head

[Zachstralkita]

ok at some point

[Zachstralkita]

Maybe tomorrow night or something

[Zachstralkita]

See I'm actually bout to slam this grilled cheese then sleep

[Zachstralkita]

Zachra

[Zachstralkita]

Not sure why you put it like that bud, the two eager wagoners consist of me and the guy who you are sure is most likely to be mafia.

[Zachstralkita]

My goal was to avoid engaging Dunnstral directly for as long as possible

[Zachstralkita]

I'd like to take a moment to say fuck everyone in the dead chat who didn't listen to me for the entire game. Look at what you googly eye glue stick motherfuckers did.

Now excuse me while I go back and look at shit for real for real

[Zachstralkita]

For the record this is probably the worst LYLO I could have been put in. I know yesterday happened, but my townreads were disregarded pretty much from the start and if they had lynched my number ONE scumread (yakko slot) at ANY POINT before now, this would have ended up a logistically easier game to sort.

[Zachstralkita]

Dunnstral is not what I'm demoralized about.

Although... I don't think I would have either.

[Zachstralkita]

Wait maybe I shouldn't be apologizing is this legitimately 1v1v1 rn?

.......What

[Zachstralkita]

The other mafia is dead. There is 1 WW left.

Not sure if townslip or u crafted that..

[Zachstralkita]

Also are you drunk

[Zachstralkita]

My qualm is genuinely deciding whether yakko's tunnel on me the entire game was his way of appearing to contribute and trying to grab an ML, or if it was genuinely the hard death tunnel from town. Because aside from that he did literally nothing.

[Zachstralkita]

...I forgot Skold existed.. that's how much of an impression he didnt leave on me gimme a sec

also

Aristo should have died yesterday. 100%. What can you do against VI townie? No counterplay. zero counterplay actually. It didn't help that zach was potentially game throwing. Oh well. Nothing to do against someones ego no counterplay again there. feelsbadman. If anything hopefully this cements zach as not playing for the town and hopefully zach is that much closer to a lynch.

Look at it. Look at this fucking shit. What was my guy doing? What did he want to do? Where was his train of thought.




..........yea skolds posting was mostly NaI... or bad. #16 is a decent post in terms of town motivation I guess

[Zachstralkita]

okay snake here's where you say something buddy then the sparks start flying.

[Zachstralkita]

Try again

[Zachstralkita]

not what i meant lol. I just don't like the basis for your read on me.

Also you'd be right today about me because caution is necessary. But if I had to adjective my game so far careful would never be the word I used to describe it.

[Zachstralkita]

Ya well this is a choice I can only make after combining what I took from both of your slots early - mid game plays with everything that happens today.

Trying to get some actual shit from Zulfster

[Zachstralkita]

BlackStar's interactions with Something_Smart:

Spoiler:

That's what I was saying; you and BTD have been pushed into the forefront, which I feel makes you harder to read.
Whereas Ari, Umlaut and MeowMix, the players I do believe ought to be pressured, have slipped into the background.

So put pressure on them. You don't need our permission

VOTE: something_smart

Why?

I started thinking about this part again and how strange it was that you were so hesitant to place down a vote and thought you couldn't do it if everyone was busy talking about other stuff.

That's what I was saying; you and BTD have been pushed into the forefront, which I feel makes you harder to read.
Whereas Ari, Umlaut and MeowMix, the players I do believe ought to be pressured, have slipped into the background.

So put pressure on them. You don't need our permission

That's what I was saying; you and BTD have been pushed into the forefront, which I feel makes you harder to read.
Whereas Ari, Umlaut and MeowMix, the players I do believe ought to be pressured, have slipped into the background.

So put pressure on them. You don't need our permission

^

That's what I was saying; you and BTD have been pushed into the forefront, which I feel makes you harder to read.
Whereas Ari, Umlaut and MeowMix, the players I do believe ought to be pressured, have slipped into the background.

So put pressure on them. You don't need our permission

QFT

mkay

VOTE: MeowMix

You said that meowmix was fading into the background and you thought he deserved some pressure on him. Let's look and see how you applied pressure.

mkay

VOTE: MeowMix

i have no fucking words for you

then talk to me about him! there's a reason I asked if my head was up my butt.

why do you townread Meow?

You never did address that little question mark SS.

I wasn't sure what it meant lol

the two statements you quoted were not necessarily connected; the second question was more of a general "why are my reads so different from everyone else's?" and pertained to my solid reads and not my Zach/Dunn ones which are mostly gut.

Why was your early game obvtown?

Wow you are being really dumb dude
Flaunting it in our faces makes you look scummy.

I hate this post so much.

Gamma have you ever seen LAMIST actually catch scum?

uhh actually BTD6 summed up my exact thoughts regarding the matter.

oh also UNVOTE:

It looks to me like you didn't actually talk about meowmix at all or do anything that would draw him out and make him start posting more. It seems like you just wanted to look like you were doing something and then didn't follow through with what you said at all. There's no point in a member of the town voting for someone and doing nothing with that vote. It's more beneficial for scum to park a vote the way that you did. So I think that's kind of suspicious

I'm not projecting anything, I just don't see how any of these posts would make anyone feel pressured. Sorry, but I'm going to be really sarcastic for second to illustrate my point.

mkay

VOTE: MeowMix

i have no fucking words for you

then talk to me about him! there's a reason I asked if my head was up my butt.

why do you townread Meow?

"Whoa, he wants to know why I townread, Meow? What a pointed question!"

You never did address that little question mark SS.

I wasn't sure what it meant lol

the two statements you quoted were not necessarily connected; the second question was more of a general "why are my reads so different from everyone else's?" and pertained to my solid reads and not my Zach/Dunn ones which are mostly gut.

Why was your early game obvtown?

"Shit, I have to explain how I was obv town. I can't believe how hard hitting these posts are! I'm really feeling the heat now!"

Wow you are being really dumb dude
Flaunting it in our faces makes you look scummy.

I hate this post so much.

"He hates my post? Damn, it feels like the walls are closing in on me!"

Gamma have you ever seen LAMIST actually catch scum?

"And now he's asking me how often LAMIST catches scum? I need to see a cardiologist because this pressure is unbearable!"

uhh actually BTD6 summed up my exact thoughts regarding the matter.

"This pressure is just too much for me to handle!"

*But what's interesting are these:

VOTE: gamma

Now I think I shouldn't have left this wagon

Forgot to do this

VOTE: aristophanes

If his legitimate interactions earlier were actually legitimately scumreading S_S, why rescind that vote like this to hop on gamma and then hop on Ari? For show? I don't get it. It just doesn't look good. Looks like distancing.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

*Skold has no interactions with Something_Smart, but what's even more interesting and the only useful thing is that

yakko does not either.

Putting this here.

[Zachstralkita]

I have a genuine question for you.

You do know a question like that is utterly useless for trying to probe someone, right? I can do the same thing and ask if you're genuinely trying to discern my alignment. And you would say yes either way.

[Zachstralkita]

And you're gone.

[Zachstralkita]

Yeah .. no shot bruh u can search for that lol

[Zachstralkita]

Are you talking about the whole game? Then you'll have to elaborate

[Zachstralkita]

Pedit: Yea I'm talking about the whole game why did you only vote like twice

Everyone I wanted to vote? No one ever fucking wanted to vote them.

And I opposed most of their lynches, most of all Gamma. I said he was lynchbait. I townread most of the lynches and was right but I was wayyy wrong on Umlaut and S_S. And Mimikyu since I think he was probably the top person I wanted to lynch Day One. Yakko became #1 for the rest of the days, like I said.

I also commented on how these wagons shifted oddly and I didn't want to be part of it. Like if you looked at Day One there were several periods where a wagon just stopped momentum and everyone shifted to another wagon and I was like what the fuck why is no one noticing this.

" There's not enough resistance!" that doesnt make any fucking sense at all. What concerned me was the wagon hops. I was like the odd man out. I'm being vague as fuck but there's a post I made on it when it happened. I'll get it.

Also like, when they were gunning for BTD and then Ari the day after I was

so

fucking confused. No you're not getting my vote on that wagon because your logic is fucking batshit. It was like all their reads and my reads were on a different plane at times.

[Zachstralkita]

Spoiler:

hold the fuck up

Since I'm more free and more inclined to post here now I'll get into that

For the record I don't like this wagon right now and if anything want Dunnstral to post his reads. It's not that he's a scum impossibility to me, but that the lynch Gamma crowd has suddenly had a convenient revelation that would prompt the wagon switch at the same time and no one is addressing that. Oh, oh, because there's no opposition to the lynch it's so opportunistic and suddenly all of you want to switch?

w o w

, how convenient!

Does no one care? Or are you not caring on purpose? Quite fucking obviously there are strings being pulled.

That is the main factor. The other one is I don't actually have a game with Scum Dunnstral, well technically, but I'm very certain he plays very similar as both alignments. This is key. And there's lynches I'd much rather prefer.

Gamma

himself

hopped on his fucking counterwagon with no shame.

I don't know why people are giving me shit about still wanting to lynch my probably top scumread. Like he should have stopped being scum to me or something. Get the fuck out of here. Sorry guys, I don't fucking make up SRs when convenient to me. I felt strongly about Mimikyu when I voted him. I still feel strongly about it now. If you don't care then say so.

I'm not eyeing you for being opportunistic, I'm eyeing you because I have trouble crediting your misgivings about Aubrey's post as genuine.

Yeah Umlaut, we should just have the same opinions and feel the same way at the same time all the time so everything can be fine? Of what I post, what is the deductive method that allows you to determine what is genuine or not?

I'm actually starting to dislike Zach in #590. He's blamed Dunn for tunnelling him but all he does at this point is talk about Dunn and use it as an excuse not to talk about other stuff. But then he follows with a pretty good point on BTD in #593 so I don't know.

What you're not familiar with is that the norm for myself and Funnstral is to argue for a fuckton of pages and have people bitch at us. I tried to detract from that this game but eventually gave in to the relentless stream of shit. It's my fragile human soul. I can only take so much.

Of the people on Gamma's wagon, if I had to name someone suspicious, it's Jester based on that catch-up, but I'll wait for him to finish it to say what I have to say. The whole Aubrey situation is fucking bizarre because when I state an opinion based on my perception and not even attack or push, I'm in the wrong.


It might be that Fix-it Felix avatar that has my emotions going haywire, but I don't see the fuss about S_S. It looks like he's been shooting straight to me from here.

Yakko's been getting a free pass for not doing shit simply because "I'm scum", which is just dandy, isn't it?. I'm not too fond of when people say I'm scum and don't present their bullshit argument so I can go into precisely how bullshit it is. Please provide me with that common courtesy. Are you gonna say it's a gut read, bud? It doesn't make it any less obvious to anyone if you don't.

If you guys are fine with that I'm not gonna say shit because it's a testament to the amount of fuckery people condone this game. I'd definitely lynch there, though as opposed to these fucking options. BTD does not, to me, give the appearance of that scum who's under pressure. I think in his situation, scum that was trying to slide by would opt to acquiesce and attempt to post heavy content rather than still not doing that and still saying they'll be inactive. That's not someone who's deceiving us IMO.


Vax himself I need to get accustomed to his posts. However MeowMix was a very strong TR of mine and I liked his posts a lot.

[Zachstralkita]

Okay so I'll get going but the big bowl of pizza dough begins to roll. I'll be back.

I gotta be honest bro sometimes u talk so fucking cryptic LMAO