Mini 1400(!): Bubble Tape Mafia - It's Over!

[Kthxbye]

Howdy, I've been paying attention to this game and will be posting some thoughts on those I have thoughts about later on tonight sometime. On phone now though. Note though, I'm hardly surprised to see AP and Thor both voting the same person. I certainly hope the back and forth epeen contest is over as it made the game so far really muddy.

[Kthxbye]

Actually AP, it was because I got the vibe that it was 2 alpha towns fighting over semantics.

[Kthxbye]

Ok, so as promised, my post on this game as I see it thus far:

AP/Thor: You 2 are by far the most active. Could either of you be scum, sure, but as for now I got a town on town piss match for multiple pages. At times, you hurt my head. In my limited experience, when people argue semantics back and forth for several pages, it usually ends up being to strong headed town. I have noticed however that AP likes to put words in peoples mouths. Example being me saying "hardly surprised" and AP coming back with "expected".

AP: To answer your question, I have town reads on both of you. I also think you both to be non-noobs. I'm hardly surprised to see you both voting Dave because although you 2 went back and forth, I don't see anything from either of you that would justify being stubborn enough to miss what I see as scum-slip posts from Dave.

Dave: The triple post is the scummiest thing I've seen in this game thus far and that's where my vote will be going at the end of this post.

d3x: I have played with him before and know enough of him to get a town vibe from his posts. As for your case on cyber, it's not without merit and if I thought dave's triple post honest instead of slippage, I'd be looking more into it. I'd say he's in my top 3, kush beating him out for 2nd.

Cyber: leaning scum. mainly due to the points brought up by d3x and his case post. Though I actually completely agree with his latest post.

JfSF: null read on Jake. Would like to know how my introduction to this game post is "a scum post if I ever saw one". On that note, if you really think that, where is your vote on me? If you don't really think that, are you waiting for someone to agree with you to start a new wagon off your scum-buddy Dave?

MM: leaning scum read on this one. Nothing in his posts even remotely helps town. Nothing but fluff but just enough to look active.

Zipper: null read leaning town. Nothing jumps out at me as scummy but a few points were made that I don't disagree with. p129 in particular, though I don't agree with his vote, his reasoning isn't without merit imo.

kush: getting scum vibe pretty strong from this one. emotional start to his wagon and lurking till dave's wagon took off. now we have some more posting from him. Don't like it. FoS

Devourer: Lurk much? 1 post from him, p105, saying he read the thread but has not time to respond.....2 days ago

DoubleJD: leaning town. little interest in game expressed and some solid posts otherwise.

Leon: another lurker though with a better 'can't make it right now' post than Devourer. Now that exams are over, what are your thoughts on the 2 cases presented presently? Do you think Dave's triple post is scummier than d3x's case on cyber? Why?

[Kthxbye]

Ok AP, how is my reading you 2 as town pissing contest different from your posts of rating where you have people on the town to scum scale? I pointed it out because I'm glad that my eyes won't bleed when reading this game from you and Thor's bickering. If categorizing people in this game into town reads and scum reads is scummy, start the wagon bro. I on the other hand, think it's necessary to do as such and since you and Thor took up most of these 11 pages, you 2 were the ones I mentioned in my introductory post.

Jake: Do you have a habit of not voting players you think post scummy comments? Furthermore, are you not explaining why you think it's a scummy post because you're waiting for AP to do it for you? If not, let's hear the breakdown mate!

[Kthxbye]

Dang, I even mentioned it my post that that's where my vote was going, let me remedy.

jake: fair enough

kush: you're very emotion when the spotlight is on you. Do you think that's a tell if someone else reacts as you do? why/why not?

AP: glad you continue to obvtown people. You do realize that only scum are so sure.

[Kthxbye]

fack!

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Dave

[Kthxbye]

Way to kill the game Thor....

[Kthxbye]

MM: in this game almost anything can be seen as anti-town. For instance, you ask him to say not playing well in the scum hunt. I've played games where people say that claiming town is scummy. Anything typed can be made to look scummy by the right person. It's judging the reactions of that person under pressure that gets the scum lynch.

That being said, p304 seems genuine enough imo. I'll leave my vote where it is till I see this grand analysis.

[Kthxbye]

So dave, what you're saying is that so far on day one, you're biggest scum reads are on those who aren't posting vice all the scummy posts throughout these 15 pages? Obviously you aren't going to agree with the case on you, but d3x made a solid case on Cyber in p244 that you haven't mentioned your thoughts on. I read this as you saying you'd prefer a PL at this time over any players actively posting. I don't understand the 'lurkers are scummier than cases on active players' mentality you have. PL's rarely turn up scum in my experience so I don't understand why town-you would be happy to vote for it. Do those lurking need to catch up, absolutely, but that doesn't make them more scummy than active players making scummy posts?

[Kthxbye]

AP: Dave should care about all the posts for the last 15 pages if he doesn't have any scum reads aside from those who aren't posting. That was the point of my post if you'd cared to actually read the content withing context.

Thanks for answering for him anyway though! /end sarcasm

Could you explain why I'm scum again AP? Also, what moved your surety of d3x being scum to now probably town? I think I missed that. I'd ISO you to find it, but I left the boots I use to wade through massive amounts of shit at my girlfriends house.

[Kthxbye]

It's a nice quick post explaining a simple case. I would have used one of yours, but they are spread all over the place and most make no sense anyway. That's why I used that one specifically.

Edit: I lol'ed

[Kthxbye]

And I'm asking him WHY he doesn't, not stating the obvious that he said he doesn't.

As for asking you to state your case, how is that scummy? I also asked why the 180 on d3x. Is it so hard for you to answer a couple of simple questions for once instead of dodging them and calling everything scummy?

[Kthxbye]

So in 10 posts, d3x goes from probably town to nullish scum? Do you even read what you write?

[Kthxbye]

Scratch that probable town vibe I had going for you.

[Kthxbye]

cool story

[Kthxbye]

@Dave: just because AP answered for you and then went on one of his ridiculous tangents does not let you off the hook to answer my original questions/comments directed at you.

[Kthxbye]

I was starting to believe Dave up to his p438. Asking for other cop claims. This looks like more of a ploy to get a true cop claim to make scum buddies n1 real nice and easy. No intelligent cop would counter claim d1 since even after your claim, you're hardly believed.

MM: I don't know if you are playing games, but at this point, you should know that you don't get away with posting seemingly random shit and not have to explain. WHY are those 3 looking like scum at the moment?

[Kthxbye]

It's the throwing things out there (flailing) that makes me believe you're scum. Die die die!

[Kthxbye]

Vote: Zipperflesh

Could you give an explanation? It's not like people aren't going to ask for it, so why just post a vote and nothing else?

---------------------------------------------------------------

As for the qwints hammer post 1 from him....

On one hand, AP makes some good points in defense of a town-qwints. None of it is provable or course, but it would be a very (almost too) bold an act for a scum-qwint's to hammer a claimed PR first post into his part of this game. So bold, it'd be hard to believe that it would be coming from a scum...making people think he must be bold town and just simply really really thought dave was lying....

On the other side...

Stifling D1 conversation, not waiting to hear anything from multiple player slots, Hammering before a consensus has been reached on the claim. These things are all AntiTown. I'm not saying they're scummy just yet, but they're definitely not in the Town's best interest.

^this.

I however disagree with the anti-town not meaning scummy. By definition, anti-town actions are scummy imo.

I'm a firm believer in if it smells like scum, looks like scum, and acts like scum, it must be scum. NOT if it's too scummy to be scum it must be town. Broken down into simple math we have:

town-qwints scum-qwints
too bold a move for scum stopped day 1 very early
stopped day 1 with 2 replacements still being needed
hammered claimed (and now confirmed) PR role

town-qwints in this case is highly unlikely with only a WIFOM bullet to support it.

VOTE: qwints

qwints turns scum, AP probable scum as well.

[Kthxbye]

well, that didn't come out formatted very well....was trying to do side by side....instead I'll do this:

town-qwints

-too bold a move for scum

scum-qwints

-stopped day 1 very early
-stopped day 1 with 2 replacements still being needed
-hammered claimed (and now confirmed) PR role

[Kthxbye]

AP: same as Thor, why?

Has not posting explanations and thoughts behind votes become a trend in the past two years or something?

[Kthxbye]

calling. it

ap qwints and jake

sigh....Zipper, what's your connecting factors for these 3 specifically?

[Kthxbye]

guess I should explain my connection for thinking scum-qwints probable scum-AP since I'm asking it of others. It's simply that p478 looks a lot like 'let me answer that for my scum buddy so he doesn't mess it up'. To have little suspicion of qwints after that hammer makes me think they likely already talked about how to spin it into a town-qwints pov during N1.

[Kthxbye]

Hes posturing and it shows. His qwints vote is terrible and based on a single post and the fact that the slot flaked. Flaking is an awful reason to vote someone as both alignments do it. And he admits that the qwints hammer could come from either perspective, but still counts it against him anyways.

Kthx is scum.

Pretend my bullet points were on a justice scale. The 3 scum bullets far outweigh the 1 WIFOM town bullet (which was explained in the post you claim I'm posturing in btw). Your inability to actually read my posts is amazing and your ability to try and warp everything to try and fit your "kthxbye is scum" mentality is equally so.

Also, I can think of 3 reasons qwint's hammer was a scum move. 3 people have said they doubt it was a scum move and think he's probably town. Eff that noise. "smells, looks, and acts"

[Kthxbye]

i can picture their qt convo...

ap: lets be a thorn in Thors side
jake : dave looks an easy target lets tag team
devour: guys i just cant keep up... prb have to be replaced
ap: Dave wagon is a go go
jake: ill keep off the lynch since he claimed cop , but I'll spread some doubt about. his claim
qwints: hey guys... what should. i do
ap and jake: hammer the claimed cop! town will never buy that as a scum. move

Yuck...don't like this post at all....not good reasoning imo...suspicious indeed....

[Kthxbye]

I think Jake just made a funny. Guess I'll stop asking for ppl to explain votes. Silly me for thinking otherwise....

[Kthxbye]

AP: probably yes. Ending the day such would have been annoying but I'd hardly be upset with a scum lynch. fact is, quick hammering scum would be less likely by scum than quick hammering someone who scum knows is town and thus knows that Dave's role claim was true. Scum qwints knew Dave was cop because Dave wasn't scum and he is. He also took the ballsy move to hammer like he did because people like yourself would come back day 2 and say it was too ballsy a move for scum to make.

Also, d3x brings up a very valid point on kush. He knew enough about his vote to know it wasn't on the person the mod had it on in the vote count but didn't care enough to correct it when it was "fixed" and moved to Dave. Though its not probable that kush logged back on to see the second mistake by the mod.

This leads me to another point on the case for qwints. He could have easily seen the mod's mistake and got the lynch in before kush logged back in to fix it. Had kush done so before qwints vote, we'd be d1 L-1

[Kthxbye]

*should read: though its possible that kush could have not logged back in to see mod's error.

[Kthxbye]

Are you saying I shouldn't have voted Dave?

I'm saying your motivation for your first post being the hammer on Dave is suspect. There is a difference. I thought Dave was scum. Hence my vote on him. You coming in and hammering without warning is what I have already explained as scummy.

I've been away for ~2 years and when I had played previously, people didn't hammer early without first letting it known that that is what they were planning. Doing otherwise (see your hammer post) is scummy as hell.

[Kthxbye]

I read: 'grrr, I didn't want the person I was voting for lynched cuz I knew he was town and I want you all to believe I'm town but I didn't UNVOTE: in a quick reply cuz I don't know how (heeheehee)'. Yeah, that's not scummy as hell...VOTE: kush

^done with quick reply and the use of []

[Kthxbye]

Thor: Actually he did....in a way....will explain after he comes back with a post.

[Kthxbye]

Jake, my post was in reference to Thor's question to me about kush...

[Kthxbye]

Everyone: Why do you think Rondar was killed?

Alright, couple other related questions:
-

Everyone: What was your opinion on that slot going into night?
What was the town's overall opinion of that slot?

1. WIFOMy WIFOM with a side of WIFOM.
2. Uninterested person playing it
3. Won't you get the answer to this as people answer your questions?

[Kthxbye]

AP and thor seem the most obvtown due to their earlier pissing contest....though AP less and less so. d3x seems to be playing his town game so because I know him, I'd put him in obvtown as well. mastin is also getting town-points recently

[Kthxbye]

AP, kinda already explained that bro. Take away all the WIFOM and look at the actions. Quick hammer on claimed town cop. That is a scummy action. Arguing that it would bring too much suspicion to the action by doing it is actually the opposite of what happened so far in this day. So basically, you and others claiming he's obv-town for doing a scummy action is proving my point that it in fact DID NOT bring large amounts of attention to him and there is in fact NO fear of retribution....other than me.

[Kthxbye]

Also, something just hit me. I think I've been called out to be on like 5 different scum teams....Why are those putting me on these scum teams not building the case for me and pushing for a lynch. You all seem to have me as a common denominator so show everyone why and get the wagon rolling.

Maston: This specifically applies to your p590 where you have me linked with d3x as scum, yet only mention why you think d3x is scum. What's this about?

[Kthxbye]

No he lost the benefit of the doubt with his BS reasoning on that 180. No rational townie would make that leap.

What about an irrational town? Cuz as annoying as his supremacy attitude is, irrational town is the vibe I'm getting from him. Would also like to know how we'll "be sorry" when we don't participate in one of the dumbest things I've seen while playing ms.

[Kthxbye]

OOOOOOOORRR, we have better stuff to do than read you and Jake WIFOM for 2 pages and ignore all questions asked ya'lls way?

[Kthxbye]

Though if Jake is telling the truth (tough pill to swallow), you are indeed likely scum/sk/other nk'er that 'missed' last night. Otherwise, your comments about how he should be dead really don't make much sense (the ones before the WIFOM-ball match ya'll are playing). Sad thing is, I don't know who to believe. Last PR claim came out true so their is that. Our cop can't investigate cuz he's dead and I don't want anymore town PR's to claim just to prove/dis-prove Jake's claim. I have my scum reads on qwints and kush still. Thor and mastin both seem to understand more about this game than I do and mastin doesn't think either of you are anti-town. Thus, I'll stick to my facts and say that kush and qwints are scum.

p.edit: ^that

[Kthxbye]

Also AP: wasnt qwints town a couple pages ago?

[Kthxbye]

You sound like you are privy to more info than the rest of us AP. Like you know that more than one nk should have happened. You don't believe Jake now you do to try and fit me into this scum role you accuse me of being. I will indeed add to my suspects but it won't be Jake. Consider me like my wife with her twilight saga and being team Jake.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: AP

[Kthxbye]

Jake, I think I'm following your train of thought here and if I do I don't think you should do it.

[Kthxbye]

number 1 town reads WERE AP and Thor.

[Kthxbye]

qwints turns scum, AP probable scum as well.

Linking me to a scum buddy. @Kthx, why would I vocally defend a scum buddy before Dave even flips and before he is under any pressure?

Inb4 WIFOM! No. Apply Occam's razor. Im VERY unlikely to be buddy's with qwints. (Also, Im town. Also, YOU are buddies with qwints)

guess I should explain my connection for thinking scum-qwints probable scum-AP since I'm asking it of others.

This is an admission of LYING if I ever saw one. You 'guess' you should explain it? Lol. You are preemptively explaining your statement and trying to act apathetic about having made it, but you clearly do feel some guilt here because you are preemptively explaining it.

@AP: Seriously? I can think of a ton of scummy you reasons you would do it. You like attention. The more attention you have, the more you think people will think you're town. you called your scum buddy obv town before the flip because what you call people doesn't matter...we'll all think you'll change your mind in less than 10 posts anyway. Possible that you both aren't scum, I'm not as cocky as you to think I have everything figured out just to retract and do 180's every other post. What I do know is you both do scummy things so that then means one or both of you are scum. Pretty simple. To try and explain why you do anything is pointless.

As for the second part of your post on me, try (again) to read in context. Namely my p491, 495, and 496 where I ask others to explain their votes and say that it's annoying that I have to ask. I read them and thus came p497. p497 alone could be made to look scummy when you take it out of the context it was in....as you've shown us all.

And you honestly expect me to believe that qwints just accepts this BULLSHIT push on him and doesn't tell Kthxbye that he was voting Dave and is therefore a hypocrite. (Why not unvote if you didnt want a hammer to happen?)

Why unvote when I thought dave was scum. The case on qwints isn't that he voted for dave, it's that he hammered and ended D1 abruptly. Why am I having to explain this to you when you already have me quoted as saying it?

[Kthxbye]

[Kthxbye]

The more I read the back and forth between AP and Jake, the more I wonder why AP isnt at the very least L-1....

[Kthxbye]

probably cuz he's losing 3-0. I don't understand for the life of me how he's pulling a mis-lynch on me in the process. I don't see how the 4-5 people willing to lynch me are swayed by this scum. It's all good though, it won't go through

[Kthxbye]

AP and Jake: I think you are both annoying the shit out of everyone right now with your back and forth BS... How bout you shut the hell up and quit making the same arguments over and over again. Let the people who don't post every 2 seconds read the cases and ask questions if they have any.

On that note...

At this point, if either one of you is town, do you think the last 4 pages are more helpful to uncovering the truth or more detrimental to town? (try and answer without pointing fingers) If helpful, name the key point you think you have made in the last 2 pages that you didn't make in the 4 before that (ie. what within pages 34 and 35 did you say that is very important to your case against the other that you hadn't already made a post about in pages 30-33)?

Jake: Is AP more likely scum or SK? If scum, who are his buddies and why (what links him to them)?

AP: Is Jake more likely scum, SK, or commuter? If scum, who are his buddies and why? If SK, why this over scum?

@everyone: Why do you think Maston is so sure that AP is town?

[Kthxbye]

I don't want AP lynched either....that's why my vote is on him. /end sarcasm

[Kthxbye]

I don't want AP lynched either....that's why my vote is on him. /end sarcasm

I do want him lynched. This is the second time I've clarified that point exactly.

Yeah, I see that now. Might have been the wine but I totally read it the other way....sarcasm retracted.

I on the other hand don't want to PL AP, I'm pretty sure he's scum and that Jake's PR claim is true. Makes too much sense.

[Kthxbye]

Now I'm scum with qwints....Really Mastin? Do really believe that after the start of day 1? I've told you over and over again that qwints is scum. I guess the 1v1 for AP is over and nobody wants to lynch scum-AP yet. What a shame.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Qwints

Back to my original scum call for doing scummy things.

[Kthxbye]

My quick thoughts... I was only able to skim the last dozen pages of AP vs Jake SK death match.

Lynches acceptable for today
mastin2
kush
Cyber/AP

Alt Lynches acceptable for today
Kthx

Not acceptable Lynches for today
AP
Jake
everyone else

I'll hopefully be able to get online at some point before tonight to do a full read and break down my reasonings. This list should serve as a guide for which Wagons d3x is happy to be on.

Let me paraphrase: 'I'm willing to lynch people that the majority of active players are calling scum. I am not accepting lynches on players with debate surrounding them but where most people seem to thing they are town and/or where I don't see the lynch being possible'

Sheep more d3x, sheep more.

[Kthxbye]

yes, your 'kthx isn't sounding scummy to me this game so he must be scummy' is a great case worthy of you following up on....

[Kthxbye]

It's still a list that doesn't include Qwints. That's where my real issue is with it. Town-d3x wouldn't so easily disregard his actions in lynching claimed (confirmed) cop. This leads me to believe something is 'off' about you ignoring it.

[Kthxbye]

Nice little wagon you all have going. Too bad scum qwints is already on it or you'd have another quick hammer really bad mislynch for the scum to win the game with. I'd claim, but I don't think you guys are dumb enough to hammer and I'd rather not at this point in time.

[Kthxbye]

No qwints, you're not the only one. Hard to say who else. Probably AP since I'm fully in belief that Jakes claim is real due to my role...which is neither vt or scum. Since you all forced this by Sheeping me to L-1, I'll prolly be dead tonight anyway...so thanks for that.

[Kthxbye]

never said conf anything about Jake's role, just said I believed. I also never said conf-scum AP, but the way he thought Jake should be dead is skeptical. I believe Jake because I also have x-shot in my role. I won't say what X is as it may be the same (or perceived that way). I will however say I haven't used 1 or more of my X's

[Kthxbye]

Eternal shame? I'm to be shamed because I don't draw the same conclusions as AP? Its not like I saw him claim it and auto believed. I've stated as such. But as I thought about it, it makes since from a mod perspective. I'll tell ya what, I'll let the person that I have the highest town read on tell me who to kill tonight. I'll kill them and prove I'm town and get a good shot at scum.

Yes, I'm a vig.

Thor: who should I shoot tonight assuming the rest of the town isn't dumb and lynch me?

[Kthxbye]

I will however say I haven't used 1 or more of my X's

[Kthxbye]

Why didn't you shoot last night?

I have my reasons. Let's just say I'm not the best scum hunter in the world of MS. Although Qwints actions are scummy (and I would have targeted him had I used 1 of my 1 or more shots), I've been away from MS so long that a lot of things that used to be seen as scummy apparently aren't anymore and as town still has the majority here, I wanted to see the reactions of everyone before shooting wildly.

Qwints: Do you understand the English language?

[Kthxbye]

Mod: If 2 shots happen at night and 1 of those shots is aimed at the other shooter, do both shots happen come morning or does the 1 shot targeting the other shooter happen first nullifying the shot of the targeted shooter?

[Kthxbye]

For example, if mafia target a vig and the vig targets someone else, do both the vig and the vig's target die or just the vig?

[Kthxbye]

just makin sure AP. no harm in that

[Kthxbye]

huh, guess instead of playing lol and posting between, I should have just read page 1

/shrug

Ok, so when thor give me a target, it's dead. I'll let scum decide if they want to kill me though. Not gonna let them know how many shots I have. Sorry AP. If I have 1, then they killed a townie everyone was suspicious of anyway...win for town. If they don't kill me and I have more than 1 shot, then they have to worry about me (ie thor) getting lucky and killing one of them...win for town. Win/win either way.

[Kthxbye]

Actually, scratch that thor picking who I shoot. If thor is off and picks a townie, scum could just not kill, make me look like a liar and then I'd get speed lynched day 3. That would be 3 town kills all because I'm too pussy to choose one myself. Eff that noise. I'll take suggestions, but won't say who I decide on. Less information for them the better.

I'm a bit tipsy right now...the above does make sense yes?

[Kthxbye]

Yup, kush is scum.
VOTE: kush

[Kthxbye]

The moment they lynched the cop, this game was fucked. If you flip town AP is the only lynch tomorrow.

Why is AP our only lynch tomorrow should kush flip town? (He won't but still)

Kush: Cuz you're scum. Don't worry, your scumbuddy qwints will be dead with you in short order.

[Kthxbye]

Qwints: why should kush pick my shot when he's admitted to not having a good read on this game? Why wouldn't you want your most townie read or you yourself to pick the shot on your highest scum read. Even if kush flipped town, that doesn't mean he's got a better idea of who the scum are than you or I. Looks like scum-qwints positioning if you ask me. I'm on my phone so can't look back right this second to confirm, but I believe this push from qwints to have me shoot kush's choice was after kush's lists of scum and town reads....checking now...

[Kthxbye]

Yup, push for kush to pick my shot comes after kush's town and scum reads....

[Kthxbye]

Kush is dead btw mastin...if you see this post edit, might want to address it before continuing on with back reading before dun locks it down. Who would you suggest I shoot based on recent events and for both town or scum flip of kush?

[Kthxbye]

I've made my decision and am going with gut. I think it gives scum too much power and info going into night by me saying who I'm going to shoot. Just know its someone with enough suspicion surrounding them to make it a good chance at hitting scum. If I survive the night, I'll explain but I believe in my read on this after today's events

[Kthxbye]

kthx came up with the weakest most vague reason ever for not lynching zipper..

Huh? I have no read on the active lurker known as zipper
Let alone a reason to lynch or not lynch.
If you're referring to my shot tonight, I never said he was or wasn't who I have chosen. I said announcing it would give scum more info than they needed.

It honestly looks like you're fishing for that info pretty hard for your scumbuddies before dun locks down the thread.

[Kthxbye]

I had/have 1 shot. I say that because I shot qwints last night as I had hinted to yesterday twilight. I also know that I

STILL

have 1 shot which can only mean one thing....scum has an RB. This is the only conclusion that I can see as possible as I don't see town doing anything to get in the way of my shot. This may be more info than I should reveal, as scum will now know I'm gunning for them again tonight versus being out of shots, but I think it's important enough to get it in the open. I honestly think (despite d3x thinking I was going to come after him...which I have zero clue where that thought came from and seems suspicious in and of itself) that scum knew I was going to target Qwints after my suspicions of him yesterday. Because of that, I think the only reason they would RB me is to keep me from hitting them, ie Qwints.

VOTE: Qwints

p.edit: AP is now without a doubt Town assuming that Mastin investigated him N1 after Dave was lynched which makes perfect sense with his insistence of AP being town. That leaves:

d3x
Zipper
Cyber
Thor
Qwints
KJ
Jake

...as possible scum. My bet is on Qwints. I'm also betting that d3x is a scumbuddy due to the comments in his p1128 which don't equate to what I wrote in p1088. This may be because I knew I was talking about Qwints in that post but...

@everyone (minus d3x): did my p1088 sound like I was targeting d3x in any way?

pp.edit: Jake could very well be scum KJ, but it's a farther stretch than first looking at Qwints and then d3x imo.

[Kthxbye]

I do find it hard to believe though that Jake's claim matched my flavor without me first claiming my role. It would have to be a very very lucky guess to throw in x-shot instead of just claiming commuter on it's own without the x-shot. Despite his obsession about a SK being in the game.....

[Kthxbye]

I assume you didn't p.edit AP....

[Kthxbye]

I can't really go into it as rules state, but I know I have 1 shot and that I started the game with 1. RB is the only logical explanation I can think of why Qwints is still alive and I still have 1 shot.

[Kthxbye]

Jake:

You should PM Dunhamganger and ask if your shot would be conserved if role-blocked.

^this

[Kthxbye]

I didn't ask him. Info was provided.

[Kthxbye]

As in day 3 started and you blah blah blah.

[Kthxbye]

Ok, I've not been around very long but is the info in p1168 anywhere near close to normal? a RB that can't RB a PR...?

[Kthxbye]

But a GF AND an RB? doubtful

[Kthxbye]

But a GF AND an RB? doubtful

in 5 minutes I was able to find


http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=16769
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4110519
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3960255

That's 3 games where they had both.

I stand corrected....

[Kthxbye]

I think the best lynch for the day is the person most people think I was going to shoot last night. It's likely that scum thought I'd hit one of them and had to RB me. If there is a strong consensus of who I was likely to shoot, that person is likely scum. It's science.

That or they did it to throw doubt on my claim. I think the former is likely though and would like to travel that road.

In this light, I'd like everyone to say who they thought I was going to shoot going into N2.

p.edit: Qwints: I read through kush's ISO and saw scum over town. The motivations behind his posts weren't adding up coming from a town player imo. That and when I decided on my target, I really wanted to shoot you in the face. Thought I had 2 scum in the hole to flip this game around.

[Kthxbye]

I wanted Zipper gone yesterday.

VOTE: Zipperflesh

This kthx/quints situation is giving me a headache. I'll look at it tomorrow.

Hey, before you so easily dismiss the nights actions and what they might mean could you at least answer the questions so far??? Seriously, it's not like a whole lot has happened to confuse you. Don't avoid answering questions...

[Kthxbye]

^Why?

[Kthxbye]

I was trying to figure out why everyone was all about me shooting zipper and now lynching zipper....after a quick ISO, I understand and agree. I can always shoot Qwints again tonight. His last 3 posts before the v/la bother me the most. If we don't lynch him today, I may even be persuaded to switch my shot from Qwints to him tonight. Something is just...off.

[Kthxbye]

^
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zipper

[Kthxbye]

You can reread my post about him if you'd like. Pressure never hurts anyone...unless they are scum of course.

Also everyone said to shoot him.

[Kthxbye]

-Thor's posts read as though from town
-Gut

I'll prolly just sheep him the rest of the game. You may have mastin's investigation backing you as town yet I still put more faith in my gut on Thor...crazy how not spamming 180 reads and being completely wrong every time does that.

[Kthxbye]

Thor: mastins post make sense now that he's dead and had a read on AP. Otherwise I'd have to say its more a playstyle than scummy. That said, its not not annoying and hard as hell to read.

[Kthxbye]

Response to mastin in which post...and probably.

[Kthxbye]

AP: why is sk more likely than vig?

[Kthxbye]

Why don't you want to do a back and forth? Also, do you feel Thor is asking stupid or unrelated question in the context of this game? If not, where is the desire to not answer them coming from?

@Thor: which response to mastin of mine were you referring to for the hypocritical question?

[Kthxbye]

P1244 is the first AP post I've been impressed with. So much so I felt the need to post this.

[Kthxbye]

d3x: seriously? nothing on the Zipper wagon as it's the hot topic atm?

AP: It was definitely the formatting...Seriously though, it was a post I could actually follow and agree with. Might also be because it put words to my 'something being off' statement. Either way, it was solid. (could also be the alcohol in my system but shhh).

[Kthxbye]

meh, Qwints and Zipper more in my focus than Cyber or KJ/MM. We'll see about KJ soon enough I guess. As for now I have him personally leaning town, but MM was lurking and posting poorly so it's hard to say. Cyber doesn't rub me the wrong way as Qwints and Zipper at this point. Thor, d3x, Jake and AP are off the table for me today though.

[Kthxbye]

^correct. Thor, cyber, myself, Jake.

Zipper L-1

Ready yourselves for qwints quick hammer to end the day early.

[Kthxbye]

Meh, partially maybe. There are clear distinctions though between the two that make qwints look way scummier wouldn't you say?

[Kthxbye]

^ was just thinking that.

[Kthxbye]

I'm good with qwints or zipper today.

[Kthxbye]

It's ok AP, I reread Zipper after he was put at L-1 with Qwints vote not on him. I think this is a good call. I don't like the speed of it (again) as we have many players lurking through the day (let alone this whole game). I do hope people who haven't commented recently (like today) come on and comment on the hammer during twilight. Keep an eye out for 'who is online' and if someone comes on and doesn't comment, call them out. IMO, that's where we look first tomorrow morning. If we are lucky, Zipper is not only scum but also the the RB.

[Kthxbye]

As hard as it is to remember them, Thor, d3x and KJ are actually still in this game...but your trio could just as easily be correct.

[Kthxbye]

Vote: Qwints

@Kthnx - you're still a Vig who hasn't managed a kill yet? How's that working out for you?

Yeah...it sucks. I shot again last night and again, have 1 shot. We need to lynch their damned RB asap. If I hadn't have had to claim so damned early....

At any rate, I think Qwints is best lynch for the day and may be the RB since I've been after him since his D1 hammer. It makes too much sense that they'd continue to block me while feeling threatened. Quints needs to die. Though, who will I shoot? AP was the closest thing we had to confirmed town barring him being a GF which I didn't believe due to his hyper activity.

VOTE: Qwints

[Kthxbye]

Can I start the mass claim?

[Kthxbye]

Intention to hammer.

I got to be honest, this strikes me in a negative way. We barely start this day and there is intent to hammer? I think qwints is a good lynch, but why so early KJ?

P.edit: I was making a funny Thor.....

[Kthxbye]

Ok

[Kthxbye]

Wait what? Why are you thinking kthx right now? I'd love to hear this thought process

[Kthxbye]

Interesting theory. Guess there's no other explanation. Case closed. Should I vote myself now or....?

Seriously though, if you push this mislynch today, we lose, period. This is either very pour play on your part or the only other reason that someone would try and push this.

Is anyone else in agreement with Thor's WIFOM about why scum would do what they did?

[Kthxbye]

I'm a competitive person by nature, ask d3x after game. I just don't want to lose this. We mislynch today, we lose. So yes, it was reactive, but not for the reasons you think. I'll ask if you think I'd react differently if you'd said the same of Jake who's PR I believe due to its relation to my own. I think it's probably between mm/KJ and cyber. D3x was suspicious of cyber which WIFOMly could explain his death. Then again, it could be to make us think exactly what you are thinking. I think we should all reread the players still in the game. This would have all been easier if I hadn't had to claim so early. Then again, you could be playing a masterful scum game yourself. My gut says no though.

I also want KJ, jake, and cyber to comment on these posts by me and Thor.

[Kthxbye]

Jake has all but confirmed himself as scum of some flavor with his posts today. He has a serious hard-on for the SK, virtually all his thinking seems to center around that role, and even some from yesterday. This is a

very

reliable scumtell in my book. Either he's group scum who spent all night SK-hunting or he's the SK himself.

VOTE: Jake from State Farm

So now that Thor has opened the day with suspicions me, this is out the window? This "very" reliable scumtell?

Finished D1 reading. This is the best I could do.

Town
-----

AngryPidgeon
d3x
Kthxbye

Thor665
zipperflesh

qwints
Cybertronix
Jake from State Farm

-----
Scum

AP - confirmed

d3x - incredibly active + scumhunting = obvtown

Kthxbye - his posts feel genuine. An example would be the frustration he had towards AP for answering the questions he was asking Dave.

Thor665 - fairly null

zipperflesh - hard to read, a sizable amount of his play was /sheeping

Cybertronix - I don't like his vote on kushm4sta. He mentioned in addition to PL, it was also supposed to be a pressure vote, but it fairly unclear on what he aimed to achieve with that pressure. To make an apathetic player participate in the game? There are much more effective ways to engage a player than a vote which appears to be largely PL based.

qwints - terrible hammer

Jake from State Farm - previously stated

Also, I'm the last of your town reads in this post. Please correlate this scum read list with the below post.

Thor's thought process makes sense, Kthx's is fencesitt-y (on Thor), WIFOM-y (on Cyber) and very responsive in nature.

I do need some time to reread.

What has changed to put me from the last of your town reads to Thor's making sense.

Also, is being very responsive in nature a scumtell to you? How is this different than just being active and responding to posts?

@Jake: Though Thor may be off today, I read him as genuine. The above on KJ and overall distrust of the slot he replaced into has me more suspicious than the possibility that Thor bussed Zipper from day2 till his lynch. Reading through Zippers posts, it's not difficult to make the connection to him being scum. Does knowing he's scum make it easier to read into his posts...sure, but it's not out of the realm of possibilities that Thor did so without knowing Zipper was scum. KJ looking opportunistic in his only post today. Thoughts?

@Cyber: Judging from your post, you think KJ is the most likely scum with me or Thor as his partner. With the above quotes on KJ, what would you say to a KJ/Jake team with KJ going hard after his partner knowing nobody was going to follow a Jake wagon with Qwints, d3x, Zipper, and yourself (who at the time more than 1 person called prob-scum) still alive?

p.edit: I'm not sure NL isn't a bad idea. It would still be 3 to lynch and we'd have one less person to weed through. If we choose wrong today, it's over. Having town reads with a pool of 4 other players is stronger than having town reads in a pool of 5 other players. Thor: why would lynching today with town reads be better than NL today?

[Kthxbye]

Any town read can be wrong no matter how strong. I have a town read on Jake and you, that doesn't make either of you town. Not a 100% sure of town/scum read till after a flip, so in my mind, getting that 100% and being able to have a smaller pool to pick from, AND getting the opportunity to correlate that person with the others makes more sense.

Also, scum killed d3x and not you last night which according to my reads on the players, that was pretty nice. That said, why ARE you still alive after last night? You weren't the only one who thought you were going to be the NK.

[Kthxbye]

Shouldn't we talk about it and all agree before throwing votes down? If you're wrong, then the 2 scum could end this as soon as they log on? I do agree with the vote/lynch but I'm not going to vote till we get everyone discussing it and have a majority.

[Kthxbye]

Not exactly. That's why Kthx bothered me so much in his last post. I mean Jake thought there were still 6 people alive, a reasonable mistake but a mistake nonetheless. Thor I view as just taking Jake at his word without look back to double check that there are only 5 people alive.

p.edit: I'm not sure NL isn't a bad idea. It would still be 3 to lynch and we'd have one less person to weed through. If we choose wrong today, it's over. Having town reads with a pool of 4 other players is stronger than having town reads in a pool of 5 other players. Thor: why would lynching today with town reads be better than NL today?

Kthx clearly understand we only have 5 players alive and still showed favor towards NL, which would result in a town loss.

Yeah, I didn't do the math either. Also, read post you even quoted me in numbnuts. Nice try though. I'll post again with bolding for you.

p.edit: I'm not sure NL isn't a bad idea. It would still be 3 to lynch and we'd have one less person to weed through. If we choose wrong today, it's over. Having town reads with a pool of 4

other

players is stronger than having town reads in a pool of 5

other

players. Thor: why would lynching today with town reads be better than NL today?

KJ trying to sneak one by. Yup, I'm good with lynching him today. Him being my strongest scum read and Jake being my strongest town read.

[Kthxbye]

Calling it now, KJ and Thor are the rest of the scum team. Thor not by his posts but because of KJ.

[Kthxbye]

Not exactly. That's why Kthx bothered me so much in his last post. I mean Jake thought there were still 6 people alive, a reasonable mistake but a mistake nonetheless.

Thor I view as just taking Jake at his word without look back to double check that there are only 5 people alive.

p.edit: I'm not sure NL isn't a bad idea. It would still be 3 to lynch and we'd have one less person to weed through. If we choose wrong today, it's over. Having town reads with a pool of 4 other players is stronger than having town reads in a pool of 5 other players. Thor: why would lynching today with town reads be better than NL today?

Kthx clearly understand we only have 5 players alive and still showed favor towards NL, which would result in a town loss.

Thor gets a pass of not looking back to double check but you think I clearly understood Jake was mistake and didn't "take Jake at his word"?

I'm ready to vote whenever we all agree.

[Kthxbye]

p.edit: Thor? Cyber? I one of you thinks KJ is the right lynch, start it off and we will have our lynch.

[Kthxbye]

How is having a positive scum read on KJ scummy as fuck?

VOTE: Killerjester

[Kthxbye]

Well, everyone posted while KJ was at L-1. KJ's now confirmed scum. There is no other explanation for him not being lynched when I know I'm town and he was L-1. If he was town, the 2 scum in the game would have been on the wagon with me and ended the game. Thor or cyber is his scum buddy. Keeping my vote where it is and going out for holiday cheer. Let me know when you reach the same conclusion Jake. Come tomorrow, whoever is left and is town will have to decide if KJ's scum buddy bussed or if it was all 3 town that lynched him.

[Kthxbye]

Took a chance with my gut and now confirmed it with my above logic. KJ is scum else he'd be dead. Have fun, let me know when he's dead. I may even shoot someone tonight since I'm on a roll.

[Kthxbye]

Jake, I've said all this already but I'll rehash it just for you. I have 1 shot. I didn't nothing n1, shot at qwints n2/3 and didn't shoot last night as qwints flipped town. I got a pm saying the new day had started and I have 1 shot for the next night. That vague message plus my target not being dead means rb.

If you doubt my claim, we will lose this game. Plain and simple. I know 100% that KJ is scum due to him not dying at L-1 and everyone posting.

P.edit: either cyber is bussing now or Thor isn't bussing. Will cross that bridge when we are in lylo tomorrow.

[Kthxbye]

Or Jake is playing the best scum game I've ever seen and deserves to win.

[Kthxbye]

And we'll be in lylo tomorrow as well.

[Kthxbye]

Unless KJ is the rb and I take my shot tonight......

[Kthxbye]

Well, to be honest, didn't think of that. I guess I was trying to be honest to the questions asked of me and didn't think about possibly lying to tricks scum. Next time I have this role, I will keep that in my back pocket.

KJ: if you're not scum, why are you still alive? Btw, the answer that both I and cyber are scum-mates doesn't work since I know that I'm not scum. So with that in mind, why are you still alive?

[Kthxbye]

Wow, that was almost convincing....almost. What were you saying about being really reactionary? Anyway, you can die now. Anna be nice and tell us who your scumbuddy is?

[Kthxbye]

Pretty much just the over reaction that you gave us, so thanks.

[Kthxbye]

I never said it was scummy, you hinted at it in p1392. At any rate, I don't need you to do anything scummy. Either Thor or cyber is your buddy as I fully believe Jake is town. The fact that you're not dead yet is proof that you're scum. It's simple. Was it risky to put you at L-1? Sure. But my gut is strong with the Force. It's up to Jake to trust his gut on you and your predecessor. If Cyber is bussing you or Thor is not bussing you, we'll figure that out tomorrow. Either me or Jake will be alive tomorrow as Cyber has had his own heat throughout the game. All we have to do is figure out who your buddy is.

If I'm wrong about Jake, he deserves a medal for this game.

[Kthxbye]

It was loaded sarcasm. You can't answer it cuz there is only one answer to it and that is that you are scum. That's the point.

@all: it's pretty obvious that today's lynch is between me and KJ. Take your time, make your pick. If you're right, we win, if wrong, we lose.

[Kthxbye]

I think that's where most the suspicion lies tbh. Nobody else is on the radar. You're at L-1 and we have been going back and forth. Like we've both discussed, there is only one reason you are still alive. You say Cyber and I are both scum, I say you're scum. It's up to Jake or Thor to decide which is most likely. If Jake or Thor were buddies with Cyber (the only other possibility), you'd be dead due to my vote and a town lynch meaning game over.

@Jake/Thor: Either KJ is scum or both me and Cyber are scum. Those are the only 2 options at this point.

[Kthxbye]

Yeah, it's bussing. Cyber's ISO is a mess. My thought process is this: Jake's activity and posts scream town. Thor, although not as high a town read as Jake says town as well. Cyber...yeah, not so much. In fact, if KJ is the RB, I'm just going to shoot Cyber tonight and save everyone the hassle. Read Cyber's ISO and tell me I'm wrong.

Holiday's are upon us so I'm not sure how much more I'll be on. Definitely won't be as much as I have been lately.

[Kthxbye]

I lol'd.

Why kill the vig when you can rb him all game and cast doubt right?

[Kthxbye]

KJ: wow, you are grabbing at straws here. You know darn well the 'you' wasn't specifically calling you-KJ the rb but you-scumteam rbing me in general.

[Kthxbye]

Nope. As we've been through this multiple times, you can only be alive for one reason.

[Kthxbye]

Why would I be open for any other lynch when I have a confirmed scum at L-1? I don't know for 100% that cyber is scum. I do know for 100% that you are.

[Kthxbye]

I'm saying I don't know for 100% who KJ's partner is. It could be you for all I know. I'm saying that I have a 100% confirmation on KJ and a solid read on Cyber. Why would I go for any other lynch today than the confirmed scum?

As for me telling you to be careful, it's because I have you as 99.9% town read. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, but you voted KJ and nobody else had posted. When Cyber (my highest scum read at the time) voted KJ (my second highest scum read), I took the very good odds in front of me to prove that KJ was scum. I knew when I voted that if you or Thor didn't hammer in your next posts, that I was right on my read of KJ. If I was wrong about Thor, then I would have single handedly lost us the game. But unlike Vegas, the odds were very good.

Speaking of me telling you to be careful leading to your unvote, ask yourself this: If me and Cyber were both scum, why the hell would I say anything at all?

[Kthxbye]

You'll have to get Thor and KJ to do that with you. Not moving my vote from 100% scum. Period.

[Kthxbye]

If you say so. Answer the question I asked Jake then. Why would I say anything to Jake about his vote if it was me and Cyber as both scum? You make that make sense and furthermore get the whole town to believe it and I'll self vote out of shame for the town.

[Kthxbye]

Of course it was. If you figure out a way to confirm scum to everyone playing the game, let me know, cuz I'll use it in every single one of my town games from now on. Even having a Cop role doesn't confirm town/scum to the Cop as much as I have confirmation on you due to sanity issues and scum PR's.

Are you mad that I took a good bet and caught you so easily?

[Kthxbye]

Cute. Bussing with one, winning with the other. Can we kill KJ now and win tomorrow with a Cyber lynch?

Grats btw on the kid Cyber.

[Kthxbye]

It's well thought out. I wish I was cleverer...alas, I'll have to settle for finding this scumbag.

[Kthxbye]

Oh

now

you're so sure Cyber is scum?

Honestly KJ, I don't know why you keep wanting to go around these circles. I've said where I stand on Jake, Thor, and Cyber multiple times, yet you keep desperately trying to latch onto something/anything in order to not hang.

Jake/Thor, if you have questions to ask me, I'll respond. If you'd like to talk about whether or not I should shoot tonight if KJ flips RB, we can talk about that as well. Otherwise, I've told you why KJ is conf-scum and why he's the best lynch for today. Other than that, I'm done for today. That poster really hurt my feelings.

p.edit: Thor: It makes the most sense. It's a logical conclusion based off my read of you and Jake. You could still be his scumbuddy. You could be asking me these questions to figure out who you want to NK. I don't know. That's the issue here. I don't anything but 2 facts: I'm a town PR that's been RB'ed all game after I had to claim and KJ is scum cuz he's not dead yet. If it sounds like I've said this before, it's cuz I have, multiple times in fact.

Why are you confused as to why I'd call Cyber his scumbuddy if you've been reading today's posts? Is it time for Thor to bail his scumbuddy out? You've been nice and silent. Even after Jake asks for your opinions on this matter. <----Its these thoughts that enter my head that make it so I can't be 100% on you or Cyber. The reason you are a

much higher

probability of being town over Cyber, is because you are actually asking questions to try and figure this out where as Cyber is being lurker after his vote. Granted, we just found out he's having a kid soon, but still...

There is probably some frustration in there as well b/c I'm the only one who knows for certain KJ is scum. If I try and step back and see it from the other towns point of view, there is no proof only posts. It's aggravating as hell.

tldr: Cyber has a higher probability of being KJ's scumbuddy than Thor does. That's why I called Cyber his scumbuddy.

[Kthxbye]

There is probably some frustration in there as well b/c I'm the only one who knows for certain KJ is scum. If I try and step back and see it from the other towns point of view, there is no proof only posts. It's aggravating as hell.

This is not the post of someone with a good scumread on Cyber. This is the post of a person who

knows

Cyber is scum. Cyber is in the same boat as Kthx but is not even slightly considered to have the same perspective as him (ie: KJ 100% scum).

Well this IS a post of someone who is flailing scum trying desperately not to get lynched.

[Kthxbye]

Sigh, you got another response out of me by taking part of a post and trying to make it look scummy..no more I tell you!

[Kthxbye]

Well, its either cyber or Thor tomorrow. You or I will probably be dead since you are who everyone agrees is town and KJ's flipping scum will all but confirm me as I think we can all agree that KJ and I aren't the scum team. Who's your read for most likely scum between those 2 tomorrow so we are on the same page.

[Kthxbye]

I got one at the start of day 2 that didn't mention shots just that the day had started. Day 3 and 4 I got one letting me know that I had 1 shot remaining which is how I figured there was an rb as I shot both nights 2 and 3. I received on for day 5 that did not mention shots as I didn't shoot night 4. Days 2 and 5's messages seemed generic in nature with nothing specific about my PR.

[Kthxbye]

Well, I wasn't expecting the Dun to tell you guys, but w/e. I do delete my PM's and forgot which days the Generic ones came. It's not like the generic PM's are the "real issue" here anyway as they were sent to everyone.

The "real issue" that KJ is trying to bring up is whether or not I got other PMs that nobody else got. Well freaking duh, of course I did. The only other people that could confirm extra PM's are dead. Jake's PR says he can't be RB'ed (so he told us), so there's no reason he would get anything extra. But to try and make getting extra PM's scummy when the role would require them is just stupid and like seriously has to be the last little bit of string KJ can try and pull himself out of his scummy hole. Saying I'm scum cuz I said I received extra PM's on nights when I tried to perform an action and it got blocked resulting in me still having a shot is like trying to say a claimed Cop is scum cuz he received more PM's than everyone else to get the results of his/her night actions.

@Jake: For shame on you for thinking this was even close to an issue.

Mod: You didn't have to come in here to verify, but thanks

p.edit: @KJ: no, you nor anyone else received any PM for the start of day 4...oh, except me as I tried to shoot Qwints for the second time. The Generic PM's aren't even an issue. I received separate PM's other than the Generic ones (2 to be exact). That's what you are trying to cast doubt on....of course it's dumb to try and do so as I explained above. So, before you ask, yes, I received 4 PM's for this game (excluding role). 2 generic and 1 1 after N2 and N3.

[Kthxbye]

Dont quote it. Just paraphrase.

All that "very clearly implies" was that I was being as vague as possible about my PM's.

Also, when I wrote that it's actually the complete opposite of what you are saying. Let me show you. "As in day 3 started and you blah blah blah". See? Clearly I was talking about 2 separate PM's. The day 3 generic starting PM AND the you blah blah blah PM.

All word play aside, do you honestly think what 'YOU THINK' I would have implied at the time means anything? I didn't see a reason to explicitly say they were 2 separate PM's cuz the question I was answering was if I was told I still had my shot and paraphrased the info.

Now, off you go to try and pull some more of my posts out of context to make me fit a scum role (at least enough to cast doubt about your scumminess).

[Kthxbye]

Obviously you are mistaken. It's hard for you to see what town would do in this game since you're scum, I get it.

[Kthxbye]

See, that's the thing, I don't think about how to word things and get all worried about what others might think about my posts when I'm town. There's no need to. It makes it a hell of a lot easier to concentrate on what others are saying when you're not trying to not act scummy as town.

[Kthxbye]

So this issue here is no longer that I got pms that others didn't get, that all of a sudden makes perfect sense. its now the wording in one post. You saying its not wording doesn't make you whole argument not about how I worded my reply to AP.

Pms aren't really supposed to be talked about in the first place. You saying the way I generalized the info I got in PMs is somehow scummy is just stupid. I generalized my PMs in my response to AP's question in the most vague way possible.

I understand you are trying to debate me here as much as possible so that you can find more things to try and attach scummy meaning to. It's all you have left. Well, I'm done arguing with scum.

[Kthxbye]

Claiming one's town PR D1 is how people play MS now-a-days? If this looks like dissonance and that dissonance is scummy, why wait till 500 posts later to say it's scummy? Oh yeah, you're trying not to swing...continue on scum, continue on.

[Kthxbye]

Actually, it's KJ is scum because I'm town.

[Kthxbye]

You're totally right KJ, I need to go back to the other days and ignore lylo now that I have 100% confirmation that you're scum IN lylo.../end sarcasm

Ever think that I already did that before taking the gamble to prove it (albeit myself) in lylo? Anyone going through previous days will come to the same conclusion I did. After all, I'm not very smart and I caught you.

[Kthxbye]

Not as good as your poster...be ashamed

[Kthxbye]

Not here Jake. My vote is not moving. I'd be interested to see if KJ or cyber would though. KJ/cyber, is Thor town or scum? Would like both of you to answer.

[Kthxbye]

^I'm dumb, could you explain?

[Kthxbye]

So this is him putting town pants on and you saying "hey, nice town pants"?

[Kthxbye]

You forgot Thor/KJ there...wonder why

[Kthxbye]

In fact, why haven't you voted for me yet Thor since you claim I'm scum?

[Kthxbye]

Jake, in all honesty I don't know who KJ's buddy is. What are you thoughts? Do you think KJ leaving out the Thor/KJ team a possible slip? I thought I had a read on Thor as town, but I'm not sure.

[Kthxbye]

1. Cyber's not here. 2. Up until recently, I was sure he was your scumbuddy

Gee, wonder why I didn't ask him and asked the practically Conf Town....

[Kthxbye]

I like how you keep saying "honestly"...It cracks me up when I see it.

[Kthxbye]

Thor and Jake, in all honesty I know who Kthx's buddy is. It's Cyber. But what are your thoughts? Do you think Kthx neglecting to ask Cyber for his opinion a possible slip? Afterall, he doesn't need to persuade his buddy to lynch town.

Isn't this the same thing I pointed out you doing by neglecting KJ/Thor team btw?

[Kthxbye]

t all. It would mean

If this isn't a persuasive enough evidence to lynch KJ, I don't know what is.

Jake, I asked you because one of us is going to die tonight and it's probably gonna be you since there is plenty of suspicion directed my way. I want your take at the very least before you hammer in case I'm left alive to try and figure out which scum is left between Thor and Cyber. Personally I still think it's cyber though it hasn't been as clear during this day phase. It may be because Cyber has been away and not posting....

[Kthxbye]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xECUrlnXCqk

[Kthxbye]

Good unvote. Ffs Jake, it doesn't matter that KJ will flip scum, KJ's partner will kill you tonight. Nobody doubts you're town. If Thor is town, he already has said he thinks I'm scum WITH KJ. If cyber is town, who knows what he'll think but I like most have had a town read on Thor most of this game and from Thor's scum meta, he'll have a better chance at convincing cyber that I'm scum than convincing him that you're scum. That's why it doesn't matter that KJ flips scum. You are the most likely target tonight. It's why I want your reads. Don't vote me again unless you have control of the hammer. If you really want to vote me, make the call be in your hands at least. I can promise you that if Thor or cyber (whichever is scum) log on and see me at L-1, this game will be over. Best thing for you to do in order for us to have a town win is to give me your reads on cyber vs Thor as KJ's partner and hammer KJ.

[Kthxbye]

Wow...just wow. Alright then, since you're now hell bent on losing this game, enjoy yourself, I'm done. Last question for you to ponder...why do you think people lurk? Either they don't like the town role and thus don't care about the game or they are scum hiding as long as possible. You go ahead and figure out where you think KJ sits. As for the you/AP/sk thing, I was looking for reactions and reasoning, not having questions about whether an sk existed, but as you're set on losing, it doesn't matter. Last post till after you cast your vote on me and I can chastise you about the losing this game.

[Kthxbye]

are you seriously asking me to explain this again? KJ is the only confirmed scum I have!! I'm town + he's still alive = he's fucking scum! Ffs, have you read anything today??!!

[Kthxbye]

I'll admit that feels like a scumfession to me.

If you're not scum, you're playing incredibly stupid this game.

[Kthxbye]

Jake, if I were scum, that means out of Thor, cyber and KJ, there are 2 town. So your question back to you, why wouldn't I be ok with 2 of the 3?

[Kthxbye]

Don't really give a shit how you perceive any of my posts.

P.edit: explained this already as well.

[Kthxbye]

Jake: if I were scum and KJ was town and you voted KJ, I would have simply won the game. You starting off the the vote being obv town is much different than Cyber starting off the vote. If my gamble comes off scummy, then I take the blame for this loss. Either way, I'm tired of this game and the back and forth. Yes, it's painfully obvious that KJ is scum to me and I understand it's not as obvious to you, but ffs....I don't know how else to make you see it so just do w/e it is you're going to do.

[Kthxbye]

Just so you remember correctly, both AP and mastin thought I was scum day 2, then they realized that me being a FREAKING VIG MADE SENSE. I wish I had meta to show you that I ALWAYS come off scummy to people when I'm town. Again, w/e, I'm not expecting you to change your mind. You sound like you are going to vote me so go ahead and just end the game.

@scum: well played.

[Kthxbye]

/facepalm

From the mind of KJ:
'Huh, Thor wants me to look like I'm doing something pro-town by trying to connect the people I accuse of being scum, but Jake is already leaning toward winning me the game so why put in all that work when they are about to lynch town and end the game for a scum win....Oh, I know, this should work...'

Kthx: Don't like what you're saying here, and I don't know if I buy your claim. Your last couple posts stink. I think people need to get back on your wagon.

VOTE: kthxbye

Other acceptable lynches:

Kush
Zipper
maybe MM

Suspicion of Kthx due to his claim and his recent posts at the time. This is prior to any shots taken.

You're right AP. I guess we wait a day.

If he's lying he's dug his own grave.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: kush

Almost immediately jumping at the opportunity to wait.

My issue with quints/kthx is that I didn't believe that kthx was what he claimed to be.

The fact that kthx shot at qwints and it was RB'd, seems more likely to me now because kthx is giving me a town vibe. So yes POE, qwints is prob-scum.

Feelings of town for Kthx due to his claim and his recent posts at the time. This is after supposed shots had been fired and RB'd. I feel that, if anything, a lack of bodycount coming from a Vig would make one less likely to believe the Vig claim. I feel like this opportunistic behavior, bussing Kthx soon after the

100% town-driven wagon

and then later coming to a town read on him when a qwints lynch was viable, is indicative of a scum pairing.

'....yup, that should work. Hope they don't see how little I actually tried in this post....'

[Kthxbye]

Jake, just go for it man. You've made up your mind. If you are convinced that KJ's weak ass post 1651 was from town thinking this game will go on another day and not scum thinking to put just enough it but not too much as the game's about to be over with my lynch, then there is absolutely nothing I can say to convince you otherwise. I say you're spending entirely too much time with this game with nobody else spending nearly as much. Go with you gut and your reads and be done with it.

[Kthxbye]

Nope, if you're town, KJ's scumbuddy is Cyber. I can't see Jake as scum...like, at all. He's pretty obv town as it is and his PR claim early can easily explain why scum left him alive all game. The one thing I don't understand is why you were left alive this long Thor. That's why I'm so suspicious of you lately. If I were scum, I would have killed you over d3x in a heartbeat. Just sayin.

[Kthxbye]

Also, I'm L-2 now and you've posted so yeah, you have to be town. KJ/Cyber is the scum team. Has to be if Jake is town which I totally think he is.

[Kthxbye]

I'm sure that if Dun replaces Cyber, I'm dead, so I say make a decision Thor and go with it. At the very least, put the game in your hands and not scums. I'd rather town lynch me than scum hammering....don't know why. That being said, I now don't think KJ voted me based off random roll as he posted earlier. I'm confident now that you're town and I believe Jake town that KJ made a show of the random roll to vote me and not bus his partner. Do you honestly think that KJ would have voted Cyber had the "random roll" turned out to be Cyber? I think not.

[Kthxbye]

Also Thor, if you are scum and just playing with me, just end it. Scum-thor basically toying with me is just...mean.

[Kthxbye]

L-1 is what I meant. 2 votes on me, 2 on KJ.

[Kthxbye]

I think I may self vote if this game isn't over or in night phase tomorrow morning...kinda tired of it tbh

[Kthxbye]

KJ volunteer's, let him win.

[Kthxbye]

No, it's being tired of this game. Sorry if you don't like it. (not really)

[Kthxbye]

Is there a roll mechanic built into this website?

[Kthxbye]

Dice roll. I assumed it was copy/pasted into KJ's post.

[Kthxbye]

Oh, didn't know that. Guess my point about it is void in that case

[Kthxbye]

Cuz I didn't know if you were town or scum Thor. The fact that he did do it between me and cyber made me think you possibly were scum. Now that you aren't, I'm not sure what to think of it.

[Kthxbye]

Honestly thor, just pick one of us to lynch and be done with it. I'm not kidding about being tired of this game. It's one of my worst town games ever. I blame it on having to claim so early and being blocked all game. I should have just shot n1 and have been done with it but alas, I didn't know there would be a roll blocker. I've played poorly and won't blame you or Jake for thinking me scummy as I never got to prove my roll. This game was fucked when town killed off our cop day 1.

[Kthxbye]

I do to Jake, and I've tried to convince you otherwise the best I know how. I failed and tbh, you aren't making bad points or coming up with bad reasoning to vote me. KJ just out played me is all. It's why I got all pissy. I even talked to my wife about it...and she reminded me it's just a game. So yeah, sorry for the AtE crap. It's just frustrating ya know? Anyway, there is no doubt that either KJ or myself will be lynched today. I have little doubt that you or Thor are scum. If Thor is scum, he's being an asshat right now by not ending it and if you are scum, you played a near perfect game. That leaves 2 scum between me, KJ, or Cyber. KJ and I are as thor stated, almost definitely not on the same side. Because there are 2 scum out of the 3 of us, unless what I've already stated about you or Thor being scum is true, Cyber by default has to be the other scum. From the outside (you and Thor) I can only imagine it's a nightmare but that doesn't make it any less frustrating for me. Understand? I would love to win, but scum are just playing a very good game. There is literally nothing else I can do. I'll refrain from self-voting but don't be all surprised when Cyber get's replaced (or logs in to see I'm at L-1) and votes me. After this game, I'd like some tips on what I did poorly to avoid them in future games.

[Kthxbye]

Just realized you guys are gonna call my last post more AtE..../shrug

[Kthxbye]

Jake would have to be making a very large show of not voting me. He also claimed the x-shot that matches my role before I had to claim. Also, there is nothing that says mafia makeup only has one rp.

[Kthxbye]

Thor: you are thanking me for what?

[Kthxbye]

KJ: You're right and I apologize.

[Kthxbye]

But that's the only thing about your last post that you were right about.

[Kthxbye]

We won't be rehashing this KJ. Cyber may very well be your buddy, but I know you're scum. You are the only guaranteed lynch that will give us another day to figure out who your scumbuddy is. The fact that you act willing to lynch Cyber though gives me pause about him being scum....

[Kthxbye]

@Thor: I assume I'm not dead either because scum-Cyber is replacing out and hasn't seen that he could end it OR your suspicions of a KJ/Jake team are correct. I've talked about why I'm not moving my vote from KJ multiple times. Is there any more clarification you need for the Bwuh?

@KJ: So you want your buddy to kill Thor and you aren't the roleblocker....that's pretty much all I got from your post.

[Kthxbye]

I guess Jake has to be back on the table. He's played such a solid game thus far (after the claim) that I'm having a hard time as reading him not scum. I guess I'd be an idiot to not change that view as this game progresses. Ugh! I hate this game. Nothing of what I was certain about is certain anymore...

[Kthxbye]

If cyber gets replaced we will know one way or the other. Either he instant votes me and game is over or he doesn't and Jake will be conf scum with KJ....

[Kthxbye]

How had you planned it?

[Kthxbye]

So Jake, if you're town, you're comfortable with Cyber getting replaced and insta voting me then?

p.edit: I just felt you were town all game. If you're scum, you completely fooled me