Mini 1697 - a Re-balanced Game of Mafia - GAME OVER

[davesaz]

My slot didn't RVS?

Steelers fans tend to play rough, and mafia play rough, so...
VOTE: TheDominator37

OK, got that out of my system.
UNVOTE:

Catching up, 10 pages shouldn't be too bad.

[davesaz]

Hello everyone! I tend to be less active on weekends, so I'm just checking in quickly here. I would like to know three things of everyone:
1) How much Mafia have you played before (in person or online)?
2) How active are you typically in a Mafia game? That is, is there sort of a posts per day frequency that's approximately typical for you?
3) Are you scum?

1) Several dozen games, approaching 100.
2) Highly variable, more active when people are talking specifically with me. Gets really sparse (< 3/day) when work heats up.
3) Nope. I seem to attract town roles like a magnet.

[davesaz]

Suppose Firebringer flips Town. What do you make of Thesp's post in that case?

Still bad for trying to shove us back in RVS.

So you're going to scumread thesp regardless of Firebringer's flip.

Why is All Alone's vote bad?

Because it's a naked vote onto one of my other scumreads right after I FoSed one of the scum.

You are aware scum very frequently RVS each other, yes?

What? It's bad because he voted Thesp after you voted Firebringer? That's crappy reasoning.
Also, someone actually looked into games a while back and found scum don't often RVS each other. The site meta may have shifted a bit because of that thread, but it's certainly not common enough to automatically assume that if someone flips scum their RVS vote is their partner.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

Firebringer may still be scum, but Cowbells is trying unnaturally hard to paint Thesp as scummy no matter what, and her logic is reachy as hell.

I had similar thoughts up to this point in reading in.

[davesaz]

Sometimes a joke is just a joke.

Usually it is, but it's still worth investigating.

This is a very interesting remark from someone who claimed scum.

This comment from Thesp looks like scumhunting but really isn't. He's not analyzing Pistachi0n's alignment, he's not asking her anything meaningful. It's like information instead of analysis, except it's not even informative.

VOTE: Thesp

Yes, exactly.

Further, he doesn't place a vote. He's just all "interesting remark" and lets it go.

Unfortunately, Alchemist is an asset to scum regardless of his alignment so he's going first. Not taking risks with players like this ever again.

Comments from town about "interesting posts" are a lot more common than you seem to think. I for one do it all the time, sometimes with a specific goal in mind (for example to get a reaction) and sometimes just to leave a note for myself to re-investigate. The fact that people do it doesn't necessarily predict Thesp's alignment as being town, it just reduces the scumminess of remarks like this in general. (though seeing a pattern of doing

only

this is quite useful as a scumtell)

[davesaz]

151 through 171 is a weird little head to head between RC and Firebringer. It could be a relatively meaningless personality clash, but I'm making a note of it because scumbuddies occasionally stage this kind of drama as an attempt to make it look like an obvious TvT squabble.

[davesaz]

[total aside]

Why the hell would I tell my scumread why I think they're scum?

It warms my heart to see someone else expressing this notion, when I feel like saying this nearly every game to someone. [/total aside]

I agree. You might want to explain to town why you find someone scummy, but telling your scumread how to become town isn't good.

[davesaz]

So far I think Nether and Raidant are most likely scum or at least one. If only one then I have no clue on the other. Perhaps dupin.

Firebringer seems to be trying to find a scum pair. If he were scum, he would definitely be aware that there are in fact three scum in this setup:

I think this is a legitimate town-slip from Firebringer.

Calling this a town slip is a massive stretch. Regardless of the number of scum, finding pairs is the way it usually goes.

[davesaz]

I'm all caught up, now I need to think about it a bit.
Off the top of my head I'm getting scum vibes that match with Thesp's really well. That makes it feel too easy, so I think more digging is needed.

[davesaz]

VOTE: Thesp
Of all the people on the train, RC and Nether are just

Reason on Thesp, other than OMGUS?
What does the rest of the post mean?

[davesaz]

I tried posting from my phone on my trip home from vacation at a rest stop... let's try to not read into what it's obviously a mistake.

RC and Nether are butthurt that I attacked them and TheDevistator is just a clown, but Thesp is calculated and manipulative. When I am lynched and flip town remember how I got here.

What are your reads on RC and Nether as a result of your interactions with them?
Can you quote Thesp being manipulative, or misrepresenting the facts?

[davesaz]

Also, Alchemist's vote on Duppin was grasping at straws. Maybe he's seeing something I'm not. I looked through his Iso expecting some glaringly obvious statement that he was scum, but the rest was pretty towny. I agree with his analysis on Thesp/RC. What's up with the Duppin vote, Alchemist? Why's he scummier than anyone else in the game?

You said things about several players in this and surrounding posts.
1. Have you been following these players that you were interested in?
2. What are your reads on them?

[davesaz]

Also @All Alone yeah I guess I missed that. Ummm my bad? Or good? Incompetence made for my benefit lol

I couldn't tell what you're saying you missed. Please enlighten us.

[davesaz]

So you're reminding us of this post:

So far I think Nether and Raidant are most likely scum or at least one. If only one then I have no clue on the other. Perhaps dupin.

Firebringer seems to be trying to find a scum pair. If he were scum, he would definitely be aware that there are in fact three scum in this setup:

I think this is a legitimate town-slip from Firebringer.

And then essentially saying it was derp? After a couple of people later said they thought you were just referring to pairs of scum regardless of how many there actually are?

I'm trying to imagine what the motivation would be for admitting something isn't a townslip after others have already pointed out the faulty logic in thinking it was one in the first place.

[davesaz]

Oh, forgot to mention, the link to post was a fail. PSA in case there may be people who don't know the bbcode for it:

Code: Select all

[post]241[/post]

[davesaz]

It isn't really possible to comment on the content implied by 355 but it is possible to research the validity of it.

[davesaz]

@Dom: Thoughts on people who were interested in actually checking your meta?

The reaction test was a calculated move, but being calculated doesn't necessarily indicate town.

[davesaz]

Because i havent decided. Surely that is obvious.

[davesaz]

Move.

Get to lynching.

"Work day". Feel free to search my posts in completed games for that term.
I need wall clock hours that are not sleeping, work, or consumed by pre-existing commitments to actually analyze new posts (vs. merely seeing them).

[davesaz]

I'm all caught up, now I need to think about it a bit.
Off the top of my head I'm getting scum vibes that match with Thesp's really well. That makes it feel too easy, so I think more digging is needed.

I got 15-20 minutes of respite just now, and had the time to do that digging.
Turns out I had started digging already. This question doesn't seem to have been answered.

I tried posting from my phone on my trip home from vacation at a rest stop... let's try to not read into what it's obviously a mistake.

RC and Nether are butthurt that I attacked them and TheDevistator is just a clown, but Thesp is calculated and manipulative. When I am lynched and flip town remember how I got here.

What are your reads on RC and Nether as a result of your interactions with them?
Can you quote Thesp being manipulative, or misrepresenting the facts?

The 2nd question wasn't answered. I did not check if the first one was, but suspect it wasn't actually answered either. I feel that starting a push on someone for being manipulative is something that scum might try. It's the type of accusation which has a fair chance to get picked up as a rallying point by town, and is easy to just drop if town doesn't pick up on it.

VOTE: eventi

I get a weak newbtown on Dom, and medium town on Nether. Not really interested in either of those wagons unless it's a deadline choice.

[davesaz]

Some quick notes going from memory.

I can accept correct+reasonable does not imply town. Will need to re-read Thesp in that light. But I don't see a wagon being possible today.
My eventi read

could

be too much based on incorrect+unreasonable->scum which also doesn't necessarily hold. But I didn't think that was all.
Dom matches town meta but he has no scum games to compare so it's inconclusive. Still, seems more derpnewb than scummy.
I don't remember seeing a case against Netherspite that I could understand. IIRC, I would townread him for the points that were made. That might be part of the reason I was scumreading eventi.

[davesaz]

@Persivul

I decided that he's just a newbtown for now. May as well change that opinion later.
However, you asked the right question.

@TheDominator37

Elaborate on the results of your gambit please.

I did

No, you said who you thought was scum as a result but nothing about why.

[davesaz]

I noticed the lack of response to questions.

[davesaz]

Knew it just like I said
That now clears thesp's name

Not if you and he are the other scum...
Word to the wise, the only 100% clear is a mod flip in a non-bastard game.

Though I think it's unlikely after eventi's post.

[davesaz]

A quick review of Firebringer leads me to believe either Netherspite is scum, or scum tried to frame him with the NK choice.

Now to reread the twilight to see if there was any useful info gleaned from it.

[davesaz]

Are you trying to say that lack of plausible teammates means that someone can't be scum?

[davesaz]

Twilight analysis that I may have mentioned earlier I needed to do:

eventi - you bastard (assuming you're telling the truth)! Well done though, and I still don't think nether's case was good.

Eventi let on that the scum claim was false a couple posts before this but I forgot to quote it. Persivul is just about the only one other than me who caught it -- assuming I'm reading this post correctly. (I did not reveal that I noticed because I wanted the remainder of twilight to play out. I don't expect y'all to believe this though I will remind a few folks who have seen me play before that there are consequences for calling me a liar)

@Persivul

Please do not disappear, I'm curious about your opinion on the 'flip'.

Assuming he's scum, there's at most one scum on his wagon, and likely not even that. I have to agree with duppin that, excluding me, it will be a decent town block to work from.

It is however interesting that Netherspite calls it a 'flip'. Almost like he actually knows eventi is playing a twilight gambit. I'm torn here, almost wanting to call Nether scum based on his use of quotes here.

The rapport between eventi and Persivul is way too casual for scumbuddies. I don't think that Percy's scum.

I actually want to hit up Dominator the most for that "clear's Thesp's name" comment. That feels way more like a grab for towncred than anything else, especially with a partner down D1.

And FYI, the main reason I jumped off Eventi was that I thought there were better lynches. He wasn't explicitly a townread of mine, and I'd probably have hit that up in the next few days.

Also

I'd prefer my own lynch over TheDominator37 because it will provide more information to the town + our personality clash with eventi will stop negatively affecting town overall performance.

What the fuck is this?

Not twigging to eventi having slipped that the scum claim was false. This means that the analysis that Persival and eventi are not scumbuddies is fallacious, ahead of the true flip. Doesn't mean that Persival isn't scum but almost rules out both Persival and RC being scum together. I agreed (and posted earlier) about the Dom "clear Thesp's name" thing.

And off my mafia brothers will please do me a solid and DON'T kill Nether tonight... I don't think I can handle being in the dead thread with him alone.

Haha Yeah please don't

This could be nothing, but it

could

also be gloating from someone who knows darn well the Mafia isn't going to kill him.

Like, the reason you prematurely claim is so your partner doesn't slip up in some way with his knowledge of your alignment.

And Eventi feels way too happy going into the grave, like he's set up his partner to win.

Still thinks the flip is real. I don't know, if RC were scum would a post like this make sense? I tend to think not but I also tend to be wrong with respect to what people won't do.

I was always insisting and will always insist that

town MAY desire to get lynched over someone else

and that

information on D1 > all

. You can lynch me for that if you like. It's nothing new for me to be mislynched for my opinion. But I will keep saying it, I don't care if you don't agree. I'm really tired of arguing about that. That's my playstyle, that's my logic, that's my opinion. Deal with it.

Btw,

eventi

was very good lynch because he was both scum and information-providing flip.

Nether still believes eventi is scum. Or at least he acts like he believes it. The question is, could scum post so much, so convincingly, without slipping knowledge that the 'flip' is incorrect? We have the previous use of quotes. Maybe check the timestamps to see if he's had time to think about it and make a conscious decision to go along for town cred.

I'm liking Nether less and less as time goes on for all this emphasis on information from lynches.

Sadly, he's proven town in twilight

Ankamius weighs in on the information from lynches. I don't think that's a bad thing for town to emphasize though. Lynching scummy players is still #1, but information is better than no information if it comes down to a choice between two possible town. Eventi has taken note of Nether's failure to notice the crumb that the flip is false, and town reads him for it.

Speaking of the flip analyzing... I tend to agree that alchemist looks bad after that flip.
Ankamius (ex quaroath) is town.
Persivul (ex pmysterious) is null with scum lean.
All alone is town.
Duppin is likely town.
Firebringer is scum lean.
Others are mystery so far.
Need to think.

How much of this analysis can we trust at this point. If Nether is town and honestly thinks eventi is flipping scum then some of the analysis is questionable. If Nether is scum and knows eventi will flip town then the analysis is manufactured. In either case we want to look at whether Nether's reads change during D2, since the apparent end of D1 analysis is based on a factually incorrect flip.

Now getting to the VC...

eventi

(7): Netherspite, pistachi0n, TheDominator37, davesaz, duppin, Thesp, Persivul

(Lynched!)

TheDominator37

(3): eventi, RadiantCowbells, Ankamius

Netherspite

(2): Alchemist21, Firebringer

Persivul

(1): All Alone

Planned followup activity:
1. Who posted in twilight and what was their reaction to eventi's gambit? Does anyone who didn't vote him act surprised when he claims scum?
2. Review D2 reactions to the flip. Any surprise noted when actual flip doesn't match gambit? Or more correctly put, anyone act like they knew already?

[davesaz]

Reasons?

[davesaz]

I find

davesaz

scummy because he seems to be avoiding stepping on anyone's toes as much as possible. The only time I've seen him give a scumread at all was in 405 when he put eventi at L-2. I haven't seen any scumreads from him at all today, which indicates that he's more concerned with survival than lynching scum.

I was acting like I think work is more important than a game. There is no correlation between effort and alignment.

[davesaz]

Why exactly do you scumread Daves and Thesp and what's your read on Percivul?

Thesp

has avoided the Persivul wagon today. Unlikely behavior coming from someone who explicitly called a scumteam with the PMysterious slot on it yesterday. It would make sense if he changed his mind on the slot's alignment since Persivul replaced in, but he hasn't:

I don't hate the Persivul wagon and wouldn't fight it

It'd also make sense if he had a better vote, but he doesn't. His push on Alchemist in 824 is mostly semantics, and I have no idea how it's supposed to be indicative of scum-Alchemist at all. Just like with the pistachi0n comment it comes off like he's trying to push someone for making a "mistake", rather than trying to find their alignment.

Because of all these things, I don't think Thesp's push on PMysterious was genuine.

Taking my own advice, high activity level doesn't imply town (I have been in many games where scum was in the top 5 posters either in terms of #posts or post length). This prompted me to take a look, and Thesp's activity is a lot more superficial than I remembered.

VOTE: Thesp

[davesaz]

Anyway, this game continues to give me the feeling that most of the high activity players are scum.

VOTE: Davesaz

Let's see where this goes.

If the high activity players are scum, then exactly what are you trying to accomplish with this?

[davesaz]

I would point to the prod notice on the previous page, except that said prod was never received.
Your attention is misguided but not totally unexpected.

[davesaz]

Alc wagon not going anywhere so I'll vote my #2
VOTE: thesp

L-2!

Is there a because clause to this?

[davesaz]

Omg alc is lurking now
I'm 90% sure he is mafia

Please clarify what you mean by lurking.

You haven't given a case on me either beyond the results of your supposed gambit.

Got reads? Please share.

[davesaz]

He hadn't posted for 48 hours and then BOOM he was prodded and is active for 10 minutes and goes back to lurking

In your opinion does he post interesting things when he's here, or primarily empty? Please use examples. Do you pay attention to V/LA periods? (I'm asking this off the cuff, don't remember if it applies to Alchemist)

And I asked two questions earlier, but you only replied to one (the less alignment indicative one, I might add).

[davesaz]

@Davesaz, did you ever read Eventi's 410? You never commented on it if you did.

Yes, I read 410. 459 was posted after reading it.
The re-read I mentioned in 459 led to 832.

[davesaz]

The way Thesp :highfive: s everyone who agrees with him, and always adds me into every decision is what I find manipulative; I've since moved my vote to TheDominator since I don't think there's anyone else looking at Thesp at all.

Explanation of Thesp from eventi.

Some quick notes

going from memory

.
I can accept correct+reasonable does not imply town.

Will need to re-read Thesp in that light

. But I don't see a wagon being possible today.

Going from memory of that post, I make a note to re-read Thesp.

Taking my own advice, high activity level doesn't imply town (I have been in many games where scum was in the top 5 posters either in terms of #posts or post length).

This prompted me to take a look,

and Thesp's activity is a lot more superficial than I remembered.

VOTE: Thesp

After re-reading Thesp, I don't like his posting and vote him.

[davesaz]

The way Thesp :highfive: s everyone who agrees with him, and always adds me into every decision is what I find manipulative; I've since moved my vote to TheDominator since I don't think there's anyone else looking at Thesp at all.

Explanation of Thesp from eventi.

Some quick notes

going from memory

.
I can accept correct+reasonable does not imply town.

Will need to re-read Thesp in that light

. But I don't see a wagon being possible today.

Going from memory of that post, I make a note to re-read Thesp.

Taking my own advice, high activity level doesn't imply town (I have been in many games where scum was in the top 5 posters either in terms of #posts or post length).

This prompted me to take a look,

and Thesp's activity is a lot more superficial than I remembered.

VOTE: Thesp

After re-reading Thesp, I don't like his posting and vote him.

So 410 didn't make you reconsider your vote on Eventi? From what I got out of your vote on Eventi, you were voting him because you didn't agree with his reasons for scumreading Thesp.

Read the last sentence in 459. A lynch was needed, whether eventi was less scummy looking from 410 or not. If someone else who I wasn't at least weakly town reading had a decent wagon it might have been an option.

[davesaz]

I'm also rapidly realizing that I've been glancing over davesaz's posts every time he's posted since I replaced in and not once have I gotten a town feeling from any of them.

I'm one of those people who fully understands that we have two ears and one mouth for a reason. If you're looking for brash confrontation or baseless speculation, this would explain why it's missing. If what you're not seeing is something else, it would help me to read you if I knew what your criteria is.

[davesaz]

Thesp, why are you not prepared to vote davesaz?

Same comment I made to Ank. It would really help me to read you if your criteria for scum reads made sense.

[davesaz]

Your push on me and eventi's lynch. And I think ivul is town tbh

You think who is town? The typo (??) is making it hard to identify.

[davesaz]

Thesp, why are you not prepared to vote davesaz?

Same comment I made to Ank. It would really help me to read you if your criteria for scum reads made sense.

I am sorry, but did you quote the wrong post? I did not talk about anyone being scum.

Well, that's an interesting response. It doesn't really answer the question I asked.
I'm torn between calling this outright evasive, vs. being cognizant of the possibility that you think you've been misrepresented.

Perhaps I should expand this into multiple questions. I understand #3 may be redundant but it would be helpful to have that in conjunction with #2.

1. What was the intent of asking Thesp that question. I could make this multiple choice but I think it would be more revealing to get a freeform answer.

2. What criteria are you using for scum reads?

3. Who are your scum reads. Do they meet your criteria from #2?

[davesaz]

Your push on me and eventi's lynch. And I think ivul is town tbh

You think who is town? The typo (??) is making it hard to identify.

Ivul is town

Now you're doing it deliberately. Abbreviating from the beginning of a name or initials works pretty well, but taking the last part of a name? Are you trying to be difficult to read? Should we be referring to you as tor, or nator? How about esp or mist or saz as abbreviations. If this game were advertised as bastard I might think you're a jester. Actually your behavior suggests another more normal role too, but I won't help scum out by saying more. I will say that I hope for town's sake that if you are town that your scum reads are accurate. Which is what we all hope for of course, but still....

[davesaz]

@duppin, fair enough on 1 and 3.

Am I falling into my bad habit of assuming too much of my readers? Generically speaking, what do you look for when scum reading someone? I don't think it's possible to make it any clearer than that.

Pedit: It's no secret that I tend to respond more to things where I'm mentioned than things which don't mention me. I try not to make it an exclusive thing, but I know my alignment (town) and therefore can make direct use of how people read me as information on how to read them. Differences in how you evaluate similar things posted by me vs. someone else is also valuable, but it will work better if I know what you're using as a basis for the evaluation.

[davesaz]

I find it difficult to believe that he didn't really understand Ivul = persivul.

I find it difficult to believe that you didn't understand I was being politely prickly.

I find obfuscating names scummy, along with most other forms of hiding things. With the obvious exception of crumbing PR claims and results, which are cryptic by necessity. Ctrl-f and search thread are your friends as town, and I really don't want them messed with.

[davesaz]

I scum read people for all kinds of reasons. I do not look for a specific thing. I have no idea what you were trying to accomplish with that question. If you wish to get a read on me, you should check my ISO.

Your intent certainly wasn't clear in the post I quoted.
Several interpretations are possible.

[davesaz]

Reading it as scummy is evidence of excessive empty space between the ears.

[davesaz]

If my memory is accurate, I'd be willing to consider switching to Persivul or All Alone. After verifying that I'm remembering correctly.

[davesaz]

I thought for sure that I had posted more recently. It's been a weird weekend.

Netherspite weak town
Persivul needs reread, don't remember
pistachi0n null needs reread
TheDominator37 weak scum
RadiantCowbells weak town
All Alone weak town
duppin lean town but unproven
Alchemist21 null? don't remember what I was thinking
Thesp weak scum
Ankamius weak town

[davesaz]

You're headed for a possible perfect scum win if you continue this direction.
IIRC, tomorrow is LYLO if you mislynch me and the doc doesn't get lucky.
I can't determine scum from what we have because there are lazy town voting me instead of thinking.

[davesaz]

@MOD, V/LA until Sunday late afternoon.

Going camping and no internet on the mountain.

[davesaz]

I'm back, but just as clueless on scum as I was before. Perhaps more so.

[davesaz]

Has it really been almost a week since the last official vote count?

[davesaz]

The dueling scumslip accusations are interesting. I think it's a either/or situation with it being more likely that Ankamius is scum.

VOTE: Ankamius

That's

L-1

.

[davesaz]

UNVOTE: Netherspite

I think I need to reset. #1284 from Thesp is hands down the scummiest single post in the entire game;

What about it?

[davesaz]

The brevity you see in my posts is due to work. Speaking of which, yay I had time to write two sentences, boo I have to leave

right now

.

[davesaz]

I'm still town, and town are still going to lose if they don't wake up.

Thesp, why not Alchemist?

[davesaz]

Davesaz's vote on me is lazy, but what strikes me as weird about it is how little it looks like he cares. Either he's just town that doesn't give a shit or he's scum on a wagon that's mostly town. I don't see a scumteam not putting in a lot of effort to get me lynched if they're going to go all out in wagoning me.

I replied to this concern, from you and others, in 1337. Work has me constrained to something like 10% of normal capacity. I looked at the game state, decided who I thought looked scummier from scumslipgate, and voted it. The brief comment I made was quite literally all I had time for.

I don't really have a clue who is scum atm. My methods rely almost exclusively on having a scum flip to associate from. Occasionally someone's behavior or an outright slip will help. Sometimes I can tell by the pattern of attacks or votes on someone I think is clearly town. But to really dial in on it, I need that flip.

[davesaz]

Hint: I'm the designated mislynch, and have been the whole game. Scum are getting really frustrated, even though they have managed to lynch townies anyway.

Working my @$$ off (and thus being tied up most of the time) does not constitute scummy. If you are town and scum reading me then you're idiots and deserve to lose. End of message.

I'm thinking Thesp & Pistachi0n for scum. Undecided on who the 3rd is.

[davesaz]

Dave, do you think the doc should claim right now?

There is both a game theory answer and a practical answer to this question, but giving it might help scum. Basically depends on what the reads are.

[davesaz]

Nether was a counter wagon to someone other than me. Does that help?

[davesaz]

I think Thesp is scum, and I think I know what tactic he's trying to use. I'm actually a little surprised he hasn't tried to launch it already.

It being LYLO, I'm expecting him to start saying that the only reason I'm not lynched and game over already is that I'm scum. Maybe he thinks that lynch the lurker is going to work and he doesn't need to go out on that limb. Maybe he's waiting for some townie to buy into it far enough first.

Having one vote in LYLO goes both ways. I'm town and the 3 scum haven't jumped on me. Because one scum is already there.

As I said before, Nether was the counter wagon to someone. Look at the vote progression, not just the final count.

[davesaz]

Fell asleep at the computer pulling my Thesp stuff together after a long game of Monopoly with the family.
Not sure i like having your case depend on mine. Is he suspected by everyone?

[davesaz]

History of Thesp votes. I have not normalized for replacements.

138 sword master
259 eventi

330 dominator

422 eventi
776 alchemist
940 persivul

1036 unvote

1055 not_mafia

1084 all alone

1141 davesaz

1369 ankamius

1390 netherspite
1422 davesaz

Number of votes on townies isn't terribly indicative. It is more interesting to see who has been voted from the unknowns, and what reads a player has on the players they have never voted.

Voted for: dom (Fluminator), all alone, ankamius,

me

.
Hasn't voted for: RC, Pistaschi0n, himself.

Is Thesp one of those people who can't / won't bus unless it is an emergency? If answer is "he does bus" then Ank is a candidate for that.
Next task: follow up on how he's reading RC, Pistachi0n, and Ank.

I do have observations on Thesp posts as well. Lots of "I like xxx" but less why than I'd expect. That deserves quotes to illustrate the point.

Additional note: I think we have time to do this on more than one lynch candidate, given it is LYLO.

[davesaz]

Thesp on Radiant, and other things I noticed while searching through that.

102 - acts a little like he suspects RC but "not interested in a lynch"
133 - not keen on RC, wouldn't mind Fire. All Alone rubs him the wrong way. Votes Sword (post or perish)
139 - RC feels genuine and is contributing
222,259 - 'happy' with various lynches
283 - the constant :hifive: is starting to look like buddying
762 - RC comes across as worse after eventi flip.

This post looks town

898 - Notes that RC says Thesp wagon is terrible
974 - Points out Alchemist, RC, Nether, Duppin that we need to move. Risky move for scum given Thesp is leading wagon.

Note: what are the votes after 974?

994 - liking RC's posts
1036 - Unvotes Persivul but willing to move back. Note: willing to lynch all alone here, which is interesting.
1072 - upset with RC for voting Not_Mafia.
1084 - wants either All Alone or me.
1087 - confirms upset with RC. Asserts both wagons (his and Not_Mafia) were on town
1090 - notes that RC dropped the "never moving off Dave" point
1158 - comment on Nether's 946 that finds that Alchemist or RC should be scum. Again with the "happy" language regarding lynches
1224 - wishes that RC hadn't outed Duppin
1284 - reply to RC appealing to Thesp to not vote Ank. Thesp doesn't seem to think Ank is town.
1422 - doesn't like RC dismissing VCA
1456 - again doesn't like RC

I'm really conflicted after this part of the review. The hifive could be buddying but it could be town trying to build good vibe.
762 looks really town. 974 is a horrible risk for scum -- in that position as lynch leader scum should aim for a no-lynch or push a specific candidate.
Has a really conflicted view on RC -- likes some things but is appalled by others.
Pushing All Alone and myself to the point of a tunnel feels like cherry picking and quite scummy.

Town should help me here by doing similar things. We can solve this if we dig in and do some work. If you take the easy way we'll probably lose.

[davesaz]

Ankamius is the person for whom I thought Nether was the counter wagon.

[davesaz]

Turns out my gut reads were right, but I kept ignoring that to focus on the people who scumread me and/or voted me.