Mini 1737: Bringer Mafia [Mafia Win]

[Keyser Söze]

/Confirm

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser will spend most of day one & two tunneling the shit out of me & being

completely wrong on my alignment

.

After analysing Fraggernaut's ISO I conclude that he is town-aligned...

[FYI: I would have preferred a

''hello Keyser, great to see you again."

.

I was disappointed by the lack of fudge brownies.

Scum-slip!

All townies recieved fudge brownies!

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

[Keyser Söze]

Fragger, do you have links to Keyser tunneling on you and being wrong or are you scum who knows he's a good scumhunter and

want to meta-deflect in advance

?

That's quite an accusation (#1).

VOTE: TheFuzzylogic99
Serious vote; no RVS vote looks to me like a scum

trying to avoid associations by not voting

.

That's quite an accusation (#2).

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: TheFuzzylogic99
Serious vote; no RVS vote looks to me like a scum trying to avoid associations by not voting.

RVS is so easy to do though, it actually tells you nothing but gets the game moving. Some people just don't care for RVS.

If it's so easy to do, why is he so reluctant to do it?

Do you think that someone who is "reluctant" to join in with RVS is scum-indicative?

[Clue: it's non-alignment indicative. I have seen both town and scum not post a RVS vote. To conclude that TheFuzzylogic99 is "scum trying to avoid associations by not voting" is reachy.]

[Keyser Söze]

He might be actually the godfather :/

I would be surprised.

I'm not even going to bother trying to figure out if he meant it or not. Null.

[Keyser Söze]

^^
I believe Accountant's vote was RVS

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: All Alone

Nah, surely not...

UNVOTE: All Alone

[Keyser Söze]

42: I think being reluctant to vote is scummy. No townie has a good reason to not participate in RVS. To not vote is basically a crude form of fence-sitting.

Naughty - you are comparing

RVS

and

voting in general

.

Yes, I would find someone who doesn't vote during D1 to be anti-town/scummy.

HOWEVER, choosing not to vote

during RVS

is not anti-town/scummy. I think it is non-alignment indicative.

[Keyser Söze]

@Fraggernaut.

RE: reachy accusations: I'm siding with townie 'throwing early shit around'. Not 'I hope something sticks' scum.

[Keyser Söze]

Finally, I think there is a connection between you and Keyser. Whether Town and Town or scum pre-emptively discrediting a town member or something else remains to be seen. But now we know to watch out for further interactions between the two of you.

Finally - we have an observation and a conclusion.

Before we continue, have you had a scum in a game not do RVS before?
Have you had town not do RVS before?

I emphasized the very same point a few pages ago - are we still on

'refusal to RVS is scummy'

?

He hasn't so far. He was quick to give me a town read after I said that.

That town-read was a joke - I would never give a town-read out

that

easy.

Could possibly be because I threw him off his game already.

Meaning he could be possible scum

.

No. Just no. I feel like Accountant's reachy accusation syndrome has worn off on you. Only post it, if you mean it.

So am I making bland, meaningless posts or am I going in guns blazing at the slightest provocation?

No Accountant, keep posting.

[Keyser Söze]

but refusing to link Accountant to his games, saying that he can search it up if he wants.

Yes, alot of time and effort was wasted by not posting the god damn links. I'm not going to award Fraggernaut any scum-points for this though.

Also Accountant is a he

I feel violated. No more suprises please.

Also in reference to my last post. I'll stand by & wait as someone tries to accuse me (probably scum) of "coaching". * Grabs popcorn *

I am unsure which way this post leans but i'd be interested in knowing what other people think.

Possibly an over-awareness/concern of being scum-read.

See also:

Also people are reading me scummy. Cool deal.

This intigues me. I'm going to ponder over it for a bit. But my immediate thinking is: would scum-Fraggernaut be jumping up and down for being scum-read? No. I think scum-Fraggernaut would be better than that.

I think everyone but BulletNLynchproof and Keyser Söze.

We never played together... :/

Must be his alt

[Keyser Söze]

I am not sure if I am annoyed or suspicious that

Key

made a meta reference without giving links.

I'm sure you meant Fraggernaut. Is this an example of

'inattentiveness'

?

Also do you have any other reads so far in this game non-sheeped?

Yes, TheFuzzylogic99's post did stink a certain shade of sheep

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: PatientZer0

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser Soze seems scummy as town.

Thank you for this meta-defence BlockyMan. A bit

out of the blue

, might I add though.

Quick disclaimer. Keyser will spend most of day one & two tunneling the shit out of me & being completely wrong on my alignment.

You've been warned.

@Fraggernaut. FYI, I did not appreciate this. I've finally concluded it was a paranoid/'bad-town' move by you. Let's move on. x

[Keyser Söze]

Blocky is another I've had a few games experience with. He hasn't claimed scum day one yet. So we're off to a good start

[Keyser Söze]

Seriously 6 pages and this game is completely worthless.

None of this please.

[Keyser Söze]

[Page 6 & 7]

Alright this is literally confirmed scum.

I think "confirmed" is thrown about to easy these days

@RadiantCowbells, PatientZer0 and Frozen Angel

- no more song lyrics and YouTube videos please (Null-fluff).

You heard me maggot. Enjoy your lynch, scum.

This insult/threat does not help your scum-case. If both of you are town and Fraggernaut flips green, who are we going to look at? Discuss the 'evidence' - don't hurl abuse.

Why would I care what questions scum ask me?

Engage all your reads (both town and scum). No-one is a closed case until a flip/investigation. This is bad-town (you should know this RadiantCowbells). A bit early for confirmed-bias, don't you think?

I honestly don't understand what's with this whole pocket thing.

Then how could you say it is "confirmed scum"?

I townread fraggernaut and

scumread RadiantCowbells for ultimate off topic posting

Why do you scumread this playstyle? It is the definition of NULL. RadiantCowbells is winning no town-points from me posting "off topic" content. Neither am I going to label him scum. With a shortened day phase I hope we don't see any more pages full of "off-topic" wall-posts.

[Keyser Söze]

[Page 8]

I'm not one to use meta, but do you think it would help in this situation
It seems like it would, cause accountant's posting doesn't ring any bells for me

Have you followed up with this? What's your meta-analysis: is "Accountant's antitown=scum pushing" consistent with her town-meta?

Well Rc's way of play makes scum to act so defensive and get out of their shell. As her attack of you Fraggernaut , I'm going to think your a town player becuase the way you answered to her arrogance. I don't get scum vibes from him nor you ...

We might wait and see how her arrogance can be helpful.

This sounds like you know/believe that RadiantCowbells is town-aligned.
Question: If RadiantCowbells is scum would his "way of play" make town to act defensive too?

Are you telling me that you can't think of any time where town didn't put attention into the game? Because I can think of plenty.
Inattentiveness might be antitown but it is definitely not alignment indicative.

VOTE: BulletNLynchproof

By voting me you say you think I'm the scum, but I don't see a clear reasoning as to why you think so.

'Calling out something non-alignment indicative as scummy'.

Also

Fraggernaut still hasn't posted anything of content

, his posts are actually worse then Vedith now, who is answering questions.

That's a harsh observation. Yes, Fraggernaut is overly-focused on only the players that are pressing him, but to say it is doesn't contain content is harsh.

IMO it doesn't really seem like he's trying to figure the game out.

Part true - Fraggernaut's 'contributions' have been directed at the players attacking/defending him (looking at your own wagon is productive). I don't think this is OMGUS, this is short-sightedness. I hope to hear Fraggernaut's view on everyone.

Could it be as easy as a Bullet/All Alone/Accountant team?

I have never seen a 3-man scum team all jump on the same wagon this early.
Is this paranoid-town? Fraggernaut, surely you don't believe this?

Slandaar does shit like this every game.

Exactly. Null. But his low-activity stinks.

Pretty great though that I got three of my scum leans on my wagon now.

What about 'off' your wagon? Any reads/focus there?

[Keyser Söze]

[Page 9]

Please give me more votes so I can out my role & show you how dumb you are. K thanks.

Very early to be soft-claiming There were only 4 votes on you. Did you think there was enough evidence on you to push you to L-1?
Anti-town: yes
Defensive: yes
Motivation: survival

is a vanilla townie. Is that what you're claiming?

Let's imagine you didn't ask this question. Do you think Fraggernaut answering this helps or harms town?

I also want to hear more from Slandaar, Fuzzy, & Errant.

Also I need to look at Vedith more.

Phew, finally. I was worried you thought that there were only 5 players playing this game.

Did I not say that my play I'm always sarcastic. Sorry. Thought a player would have thicker skin when it comes to the game.

Do you think sarcasm will support or undermine your scum-case and interactions with other players?

[Keyser Söze]

[Page 10]

lol this is such a TvT argument it is not even funny.

I'm feeling that "TvT" vibe too. It's too early for a SvS hard-bus, and I'm not liking the behaviour/playstyle on either side.

UNVOTE: PatientZer0

Hey Fragger, you literally just said you wanted people to engage with you. I'm engaging with you.

What is your read on Accountant and why?

Good, some actual 'engagement'. This makes me warm to the idea of RadiantCowbells being town.

Fraggernaut instead claimed to scumread her, most likely because

he expected that I'd be interested in pushing a wagon there

.

This is scum.

Hmm. Feels a bit reachy.

Fraggernaut has been scum-reading nearly everyone interacting with him: from the people on his wagon, and the players town-reading him (suspecting being "pocketed"). This shouts paranoid-townie to me. For me he only wins scum-points for not engaging with players 'outside his focus'.

I think it will honestly be best if we bring him to claim

What? Fraggernaut should only claim if 7 people think he is scum.

[Keyser Söze]

RC is so arrogant , wild and crazy but

its helpful

because we can see how people can react under his pressure .

Again, Frozen Angel is assuming that this is town-RadiantCowbells helping us to weed out scum.
Why are you presuming this is town-RadiantCowbells helping us to "see how people can react under his pressure"?
I understand the value of pressure/pressing - but are you town-reading RadiantCowbells?

There is some kind of soft claims in your posts... It's not a town PR way to gain trust. SOMETHING IS WRONG HERE.

Agreed. Town-Fraggernaut should be better than that. Defending yourself against pressure with an early soft role-claim is ill-advised


Caught up with last night's events.
Now going to look at each poster individually.

[Keyser Söze]

I already answered about my view about him. and I do think his craziness in day 1 is helpful and it makes sense to me because it will take out scums from their shells.

and I'm not buddying , I'm just not suspicious about him at this point because I think its just his playstyle to rush attacks in early day 1 ...

Yes, yes, you keep saying RadiantCowbells' "craziness in day 1 is helpful", that it "takes out scums from their shells" and "Her* way of attack may cause people to defend themselves" - but you can only say it is out-right "helpful" if you know/believe RadiantCowbells is town.

I.e could not scum-RadiantCowbells also rush an attack on townies?

What if RadiantCowbells fails to 'take scum from their shells' - will you start scum-reading him?

[*Is RadiantCowbell a he or she?]

RadiantCowbells'

'you-are-confirmed-scum-playstyle'

is so far null to me - but if Fraggernaut did flip scum, based on results, then yes, RadiantCowbells truly is more likely to be "helpful"/town (with serious town-cred in the bank).


@RadiantCowbells - do

you

understand what I am saying?

[Keyser Söze]

In other words I'm null on him so far as you all must be , in my opinion ...

I now understand your position.

[Keyser Söze]

Frag is prob town based on the rule of first....which is that 95 percent of the time the first person to get a wagon is likely town. I know this sound pretty dumb but from experience I have not seem anything that disprove this. This is because town are grasping to find scum and scum are usually jumping on theses wagons bc they are semi safe.If you can show how I am wrong than let me know.

Are you really town-reading Fraggernaut for these reasons?

this doesn't seem like RCb scum game..

Show me how you came to this conclusion.

I find people giving out easy town-reads left, right and centre is scum-indicative.

VOTE: TheFuzzylogic99

[Keyser Söze]

BulletNLynchproof's accusation:

Spoiler:

Now I shall explain why All Alone is scum.

In this game, All Alone was lurking, and posted only about once/twice per day. And when he did, he would shift his vote to the largest wagon possible. Note that he did not ever turn a L-2 wagon into L-1. Also in that game, you can see that in the original game (not restarted) he was town, and didn't jump to the biggest wagon. Very short, but contentful for AA's meta.

In this game, he started a wagon on Accountant first during RVS (of course not his own wagon), and came out only rarely. Then when he came back he shifted his vote to Fraggernaut, who had the largest wagon at that time.

UNVOTE: Fraggernaut
VOTE: All Alone

All Alone's reply:

Spoiler:

fdjkhgfkjghfgdsfg adfgadg43at rtjuhrtgsh hgrh adsga548878iyuhvblo srtypoknlknop



Every single thing you've mentioned is something I've done as town and scum. Literally all of them. If you're town, you need to discard this sort of nonsense and look at actual motives.

Such as Fraggernaut, who apparently suspects all five players pushing his lynch. Since there's only 3 scum in this game, a townie should be trying to pare that list down. Fragger isn't. He just keeps throwing more and more crap at everyone voting him. Most likely, he's throwing all that crap in the hopes that everyone else is too fecaphobic to join the wagon. I seriously doubt a townie would feel compelled to do that.

Thoughts:
- defensive overeaction from All Alone.
- I didn't like "Every single thing you've mentioned is something I've done as town and scum" - do you therefore agree that you've consciencely 'shifted your vote to the largest wagon possible'?
- I like his 2nd paragraph though: I can see how he could scum-read Fraggernaut's

'everyone is scum!'

paranoid-mentality.
- BulletNLynchproof's attack on All Alone's RVS vote is naughty, but I like his observation on the

timing

of All Alone's Fraggernaut vote.

@BulletNLynchproof - what's your take on the other votes on Fraggernaut's L-2 wagon?

Will be back later to read the thread.

Sorry, I will be here tomorrow.

Slandaar, wtf man? Seriously.

And what are the benefits of quick lynching?

Errantparabola, who do you want to quick-lynch?
Why raise this question in

here

?

[Keyser Söze]

@Errantparabola - I'm unsure if you answered this:

I'm not one to use meta, but do you think it would help in this situation
It seems like it would, cause accountant's posting doesn't ring any bells for me

Have you followed up with this? What's your meta-analysis: is "Accountant's antitown=scum pushing" consistent with her town-meta?

Fragger still needs to die.

@Accountant - how do you read Fraggernaut's

'get-the-f***-off-me'

warning:

I've breadcrumbed quite a bit already. Unfortunate you still haven't picked it up.

[Keyser Söze]

Slandaar, wtf man? Seriously.

I had no time on the weekend. It happens.

Sorry - I'm getting increasingly impatient on mafiascum these days x

No, give me the down low.

Should I think differently at this stage?

I would prefer to hear

your

thoughts, and which items

you

choose to flag.

[Keyser Söze]

Ok, here is everyone/everything that Fraggernaut has flagged. Both negative (scummy) and positive (town).

Negative (scum)

"Accountant your claims are far reaches. If you really wanted to dive into meta, you could read my past games." [Accountant]
"Trying to bury town early based on Meta." [Accountant]
"Meaning he could be possible scum" [Keyser Söze]
"your questioning has been weird & looks pretty fluffy when it comes to "Scum Hunting"" [Accountant]
"It seems like you're trying to overcompensate on me not providing links & are reaching for any way to get a in for a mislynch later." [Accountant]
"the way you answered about inattentativness being a scummy trait pinged out for me" [BulletNLynchproof]
"Could obvious scum be this obvious?" [TheFuzzylogic99]
"Just getting snug in Parient's pocket" [PatientZer0]
"All Alone sheeped a horrible read from Bullet" [All Alone]
"It's a split between Bullet/All Alone" [BulletNLynchproof, All Alone]
"It's not a play that town would make" [All Alone]
"Could it be as easy as a Bullet/All Alone/Accountant team?" [BulletNLynchproof, All Alone, Accountant]
"I believe to be a scum slip" [All Alone]
"Pretty great though that I got three of my scum leans on my wagon now" [BulletNLynchproof, All Alone, Accountant]
"this statement is once again false." [All Alone]
"Accountant pulling the accusations out of thin air" [Accountant]
"Top 4 scum. 1. Bullet 2. All Alone 3. Accountant 4. Frozen" [BulletNLynchproof, All Alone, Accountant, Frozen Angel]
"So always look at Frozen as well." [Frozen Angel]
"It's kinda amusing how irritated you are right now with not being able to push your agenda & scum further on me." [Accountant]
"I still think AT LEAST one of the three are scum." [BulletNLynchproof, All Alone, Accountant]
"she doesn't want to talk to me (town) which makes her scum" [Accountant]
"Anything else you want to try to mis-rep?" [RadiantCowbells]
"Therfore if Scum Accountant doesn't want to talk to me , when I'm town, that goes against my town win-con." [Accountant]
"Know Radiant & Accountant single handily already threw this game OR are just scum with either Bullet or All Alone" [RadiantCowbells, Accountant, BulletNLynchproof, All Alone]
"Radiant/Accountant with a outside of Bullet or All Alone." [RadiantCowbells, Accountant, BulletNLynchproof, All Alone]
"Keep Mis-repping Radiant." [RadiantCowbells]
"That's two times now you've mis-repped me. A heavy scum trait." [RadiantCowbells]
"Not even true in the slightest. Keep lying Radiant." [RadiantCowbells]
"Waiting it out as scum to watch a mislynch?" [TheFuzzylogic99]

Positive (town)

"slight early town lean on Accountant" [Accountant]
"I have a slight town lean on you" [Accountant]
"I'm actually pretty flabbergasted that someone with as many games played could be this bad at town" [RadiantCowbells]
"My read on Keyser thus far has been based on his actions, this game." [Keyser Söze]

Fraggernaut's town/null/scum read list

(post 281)


Ok, straight away you can see 2 main problems which I also saw when I previously played with town-Fraggernaut (which I scum-read him for):

(1) He is casting suspicion and throwing accusations on his scum, null and town-reads. Any paranoia/suspicion he can think of he will post it (regardless of his read on that person).
Notice that at the beginning he was highlighting all the objectively scummy things Accountant was posting, but he still had a "slight early town lean" on him.
He called me "possible scum" - but did he even have a scum-read on me? Moreover, he was fixated with bad-town RadiantCowbells, flagging all his scummy behaviour - however, in the end RadiantCowbells is labelled as "equal" scummy to Accountant, BulletNLynchproof and All Alone. Fraggernaut even adds TheFuzzylogic99 to his long-list of flaggable scum-offences for "Waiting it out as scum to watch a mislynch".

[Conclusion: basically, this extreme fight-fire-with-fire style means Fraggernaut does not make any friends. Fraggernaut has not backed down. He doesn't care about his own survival because he is convinced he is right. I think a scum-aligned player would be more concerned about surviving D1. You can say Fraggernaut is being very defensive, but in the end it's actually harming him].

(2) He has many null (incomplete) reads. By being obsessed with his own wagon, he has neglected engaging with the other 8 players in the game. Again, this makes him win no favours with the 'other crowd'.

Meta-check

I'm going to need to look at an example of scum-Fraggernaut to see if these 'extreme' traits are evident. I'm currently leaning town on Fraggernaut (and suspecting maybe 1 opportunistic scum on his L-2 wagon), but this may change.

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser will spend most of day one & two tunneling the shit out of me & being

completely wrong on my alignment.

My town-lean on Fraggernaut makes the above statement even more amusing now

[Keyser Söze]

Here is my reads list:

Fraggernaut

RadiantCowbells

All Alone

Do you read

Fraggernaut vs RadiantCowbells

and

Fraggernaut vs All Alone

as scum vs scum.
Or are you disregarding associations for D1?

[Keyser Söze]

@Keyser What are your thoughts on the Bullet counter-wagon?

I'm going back to Page 1 to have a re-look at events... I should reach the BulletNLynchproof L-3 wagon by tomorrow.

[Keyser Söze]

[Pages 1-4]

Accountant is the first to take us out of RVS (post 29) and to make the first serious vote (post 34) - Accountant wins half a town-point for having the motivation to go head-first and engage.

All Alone deserves three-quarters of a scum-point for presuming seriousness over a RVS vote (post 44).

Slandaar, PatientZer0, Errantparabola and BlockyMan all missed RVS/early game. RL issues or demonstrating the desire to not show the initiative to be the first to engage?

Fraggernaut calls himself "town" (post 51) - is this scum trying to remind himself and others that he's "town"? It's page 3, too icky to be true. Bad-town play to do this.

BulletNLynchproof makes a good observation but goes full-Gestapo on Vedith with an assault of his contributions, there is no hesitation or doubt (post 56) - BulletNLynchproof wins half a scum point here. Doesn't get a full point as this could be enthusiastic over-reading. Vedith's reaction is to laugh off the accusation (post 60) - for a strong accusation, I was expectating a strong reaction (quarter of a town-point for Vedith).



[Pages 5-8]

Errantparabola fence-sits on Fraggernaut awaiting thoughts from other people (post 108). Errantparabola votes BulletNLynchproof but I'm unsure if he is doubting BulletNLynchproof's logic or alignment. Intriguing.

TheFuzzylogic99 re-enters the scene, sheeping thoughts about Accountant and fence-sitting on Fraggernaut (post 116). Half a scum-point.

BlockyMan joins us, with a meta-defence for my behalf (post 124). I was not being scum-read, neither was I under any pressure. Very peculiar - I wouldn't call it a comfortable introduction.

At this stage the focus has been on Accountant and Fraggernaut (who are naturally, the two most active players). No strong wagon has formed on either.

RadiantCowbells rides in on a wrecking-ball calling Fraggernaut "confirmed scum" for a post he didn't even understand (post 138). RadiantCowbells has nothing to stand on to call Fraggernaut "scum" out-right. Is this a reaction test, or a townie who has a disregard of the consequences of his actions? - we shall see. Well, this is where the Fraggernaut wagon begins, there were 8 other mini-wagons at this time. Everyone is so far buying RadiantCowbells vote as arrogance, and not a wagon they want to jump on.

BulletNLynchproof joins the Fraggernaut wagon, for weak reasons (post 185). I think All Alone's reason to join the wagon stinks too (post 190). There hasn't been much scummy behaviour to flag so exaggerating non-alignment indicative behaviour is both lazy, reachy and ultimately scummy. BulletNLynchproof and All Alone both receive a scum-point... then Fraggernaut talks himself into a vote from Accountant and wow, Fraggernaut is L-3 just like that.

[Keyser Söze]

[Pages 9-12]

Accountant argues BulletNLynchproof's argument for him against Fraggernaut (post 200). I don't know which way to go with this. It is nonetheless amusing.

Fraggernaut commits a mortal sin by softing a PR early (post 202). Frozen Angel isn't having any of it, and wants even more votes on Fraggernaut (post 206)

Accountant finally realizes the pressure on Fraggernaut is going nowhere, the harder he pushes, the harder Fraggernaut will push back - a self-inflicting wagon (post 220). It sounds like Accountant is hating on Fraggernaut's playstyle more than anything (post 222).

Fraggernaut is L-2 - does anyone have the balls to call Fraggernaut's bluff and make him roleclaim at L-1?

PatientZer0 comes in with what I was thinking,

town versus town

(post 226). PatientZer0 speaking with great clarity about the Fraggernaut wagon (post 242). Frozen Angel states her vote is staying put (post 256).

Where is Slandaar, Errantparabola, BlockyMan, TheFuzzylogic99 and Vedith with their thoughts? Or are they safely watching from the sidelines - Fraggernaut at L-2 is serious shit.

Nope, we're unlikely to ever see Fraggernaut at L-1 now because BulletNLynchproof unvotes and votes on fellow wagonee All Alone (post 259). Scum-BulletNLynchproof could have got blood from the Fraggernaut wagon but decides to jump off. Town-point for BulletNLynchproof. This could prove to be the crucial unvote to kill Fraggernaut's wagon.

BlockyMan actually analyses in-game behaviour for the first time with new reads, but his scum-reads are based on his town-read of Fraggernaut (post 273, post 275, post 277).

Errantparabola checks in to say hi, after all the shit has settled (post 287). I can't remember if TheFozzylogic99 or Slandarr were actually playing still at this stage.


[Pages 13-16 next]

[Keyser Söze]

[Pages 13-16]

Errantparabola is happy to keep the focus on Fraggernaut and asks about the pro's and con's about quick-lynching - suspicious timing (post 300, post 293). Tempted to give you a scum-point here. You joined in 2015, so you're forgiven.

Frozen Angel finally concedes that RadiantCowbells playstyle should be read as "null": i.e we do not know if it is being helpful or not yet (post 301).

PatientZer0 chips in with his wisdom yet again to defuse the charged atmosphere (post 314). Town-point.

Vedith shows us that's he alive (post 315). BlockyMan introduces us to his legendary "scum-o-meter" (post 324) I will keep an eye on how he presses his scum-reads.

TheFuzzylogic99 makes his first real contribution to the game: two easy town-reads on Fraggernaut and RadiantCowbells and a fence-sit on Accountant (post 325). Half a scum-point.

Slandaar keeps making promises to catch-up (post 327) FYI: I hope you have a good scum-hunting game, otherwise you won't last long.

Accountant still calling for Fraggernaut's blood (post 336). The wagon is still there.

All Alone comes back with an extensive scum-case on Fraggernaut (post 338) There are some points that caught even my attention.

Frozen Angel asking questions that don't need to be asked. Naughty. (post 344).

PatientZer0 comes out with his first scum-read (or at least the first I've acknowledged): BulletNLynchproof (post 360)

I believe BulletNLynchproof has improved since his start. Vedith's cheeky naked vote put's BulletNLynchproof to L-3 (post 370).

Naughty BlockyMan, these are questions you do not ask (post 374).

Where are All Alone-RadiantCowbells-Accountant with their Fraggernaut is "110%"/"confirmed scum" campaign? Talk of the devil, Accountant wants Fraggernaut "turbo" lynched still (post 382) RadiantCowbells is happy for Accountant to take the lead now.

BulletNLynchproof confuses me, his scum-reads are all attacking eachother, does he suspect scum-bussing? Can Fraggernaut and All Alone both be scum? (post 387)

BulletNLynchproof and Fraggernaut are now neck and neck with 4 votes each.

Interesting - All Alone describes BulletNLynchproof's wagon as "lazy and awful" (post 399) BulletNLynchproof is currently voting All Alone.

[Keyser Söze]

Bulletproof's readlist was weird as fuck

Yes, he needs to look at how his main scum-reads have interacted with eachother.

I see absolutely mo reason for you to randomly excuse something that you think is scummy based on my joining in 2015.

Did you really need to ask about what are the cons of a quicklynch? In my first newbie game this was addressed within the first few pages if I recall correctly.

Or maybe you're just scum trying to indirectly defend your buddy.

If Fraggernaut flips scum I would no doubt be a scum-buddy suspect, for the way I hard meta-defended him. Therefore, I cannot disagree with this observation if I was a neutral looking in.

However

, I town-lean read Fraggernaut and posted my reasons. I do not want town lynched, thus, I defended him.

You're a fucking nimrod.

Whether or not I am a "fucking nimrod" is insignificant for this game. You should only be concerned of my alignment. All this name-calling, song lyrics, and "confirmed scum" playstyle means nothing unless you get results.

why?!

Your not a town member then?

Did you expect TheFuzzylogic99 to answer this?

[Keyser Söze]

NO sure not! Why aren't you quoting my whole sentence?!! I was trying to make a point there for him!

:/

Your point was valid, but I thought the question didn't need to be asked.

You'll see some fucking results, thanks.

I'm not going to bother clicking those links. Cute though.

You could have posted a 100 games where you found scum as town. But how does that relate to if you can find scum in this game? That logic does not work on me.

I want to see results in

this

game.

What are you next going to share with me, your best scum-hunter award from 2010 or your stamp collection?

Can you please show us what do you think about each person individually?

Certainly. I'm at the end of my analysis now. I wanted to re-read the whole thread, as I felt I had my eyes focused too much on Fraggernaut's wagon. I hate naked/empty read lists, but am in a position to share my reads now.

[Sometime this evening]

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser youre not answering my point.
I didnt ask why the quicklynch question was scummy, i wanted to know why you thought that me joining in 2015 excused me from what you thought was suspicious.

Yes, here was my thinking: a newbie would be more inclined to not understand the harm a quick-lynch can incur (lack of game experience).
A more seasoned mafia veteran with many games under their belt would fully appreciate the consequences of a quick-lynch.

Quick-lynches are a big NO NO in my book. Unless, you have a confirmed cop, confirmed scum, and the game isn't bastard

I can write a whole 1,000 page essay on it, but it would not help me find scum today.

I already found scum you twat.

You scum-read Fraggernaut. I can see that. But he is not "confirmed scum". You do not understand the meaning of "confirmed".

"twat" - am I a town-aligned twat or a scum-aligned twat?

[Keyser Söze]

I like Slandaar's

'why-can't-this-be-from-a-townie'

defence of Fraggernaut (post 456, post 479)
Slandaar is slowly creeping into my town-pile.

Well let me chime in...

Town;
Vedith
RC
Accountant
Errant
All Alone
Keyser
Frozen Angel (ish)

That's half way there!

Scum
???

I'll wait until day 2 to decide.

Hmm. A naked read list - I smell a shade of opportunism here. Show me why your town-reads are town.

I don't care what Soze likes, thanks.

You what mate?

Holy fuck has anyone else noticed that in spite of BP claiming a scumread on Fragger ALL HE HAS DONE this game is make reachy pushes on every single person that's been pushing the wagon, aka myself, Accountant, and AA?

Yes some truth in this accusation. As I stated earlier he needs to look at how his main scum-reads are interacting with eachother - does he think it is scum vs scum. It looks and feels like a contradiction. I cannot see Fraggernaut-RadiantCowbells or Fraggernaut-All Alone as scum-scum due to the nature of that L-2 wagon.


[Full-reads sometime today].

[Keyser Söze]

I found us town. That's more than you have done.

Find me scum

[Keyser Söze]

Looking at your ISO Vedith you have not been directly/actively scum-hunting.

Would you say your scum-hunting style is hands-off?
Your read-list illustrates this wonderfully.

Scum-lean.

[Keyser Söze]

It appears that TheFuzzylogic99 is happy to think he can lurk through to D2.

So far he has offered two easy-town-reads (Fraggernaut & RadiantCowbells) and a fence-sit (Accountant).

I am not very good on day 1 thus not very helpful.....

Well do you presume/expect to be alive for D2 then? Contribute please. There is nothing more disturbing than someone who hides in the shadows.

Null-scum-lean

.

[Keyser Söze]

People we cannot lynch today uness they outright claim scum:

Accountant

Fortunately for you, I agree.

[Keyser Söze]

Let's break down All Alone's 10 contributions so far:

Ignoring game confirm and RVS vote.

VOTE: All Alone

Why are you naked voting in RVS? And on a bandwagon no less.

What else am I gonna do? Write a case on a player who hadn't even posted?

Bandwagons are the best way to RVS because they're the fastest way out of RVS.

Presumes seriousness over a RVS vote. All Alone joined us May 21, 2015, surely he shouldn't be as prickly as this. I'll flag this as a suspicious reaction.

VOTE: Fraggernaut

IMO it doesn't really seem like he's trying to figure the game out.

I'm honestly not feeling this vote or reason. Are you actually going to lynch someone D1 for that non-supported reason?

I'm not on my RVS vote. My vote is serious, and it just got even more serious. Your case on me doesn't read like a genuine scumhunt at all.

Yes, All Alone has been very "serious" from the very start.

BulletNLynchproof votes All Alone and he reacts with many facepalms (post 271). He does not at one moment wonder, 'hey is this scum-Fraggernaut, or town-Fraggernaut? It is scum-Fraggernaut, and he doesn't want to hear otherwise. He defends his 'shift of vote to Fraggernaut' saying he does this as scum or town.

All Alone is still on the scum-Fraggernaut case.

Fraggernaut is 110% scum, turbolynch him good day

All Alone still wants Fraggernaut dead: (post 341, post 487)



This is the first time All Alone has focused on somone other than Fraggernaut:

This Bullet wagon is lazy and awful. I really don't get any sense of disingenuity out of his reads.

BlockyMan reads like scum. He's vote parking on Cowbells hard and it really doesn't seem to bother him at all that nobody else is following him. He's not doing anything to push a wagon on Cowbells. I doubt a townie would be okay with nobody voting their top scum read like he is. But as scum trying to avoid attention, Blocky's play makes a lot more sense.

Fraggernaut is still today's lynch though. On top of everything else I've mentioned, the "DID I MENTION I HAVE A SOFTCLAIM IN THE PAST FIVE MINUTES" stuff he's pulling is just flagrantly phony. Town PRs have two motives that they have to choose between: making their role known to the town, and keeping their role secret from scum. Fragger's loud softclaiming doesn't benefit either one of those motives. If he wanted his role secret from scum, he wouldn't be advertising it this loudly. And if he wanted his role known to the town, he wouldn't be so vague about what his role is. It reads like he wants to scare town into not voting him because he might be a PR, but doesn't want to actually claim a PR because he doesn't know which claims are safe.

All Alone shits on the BulletNLynchproof wagon. He wants more support on the Fraggernaut wagon.... and a scum read on BlockyMan.

Is All Alone not concerned with the other 8 players in the game?

The fact he is not interested about the other 8 players and merely fixated with his tunnel on Fraggernaut is bad-town/scummy.

@All Alone, take a step back and look through the thread. I'm not saying you're 100% about Fraggernaut, but there's nothing else in your ISO that tells me that you're conscious of finding out who is town/scum.

Null-scum-lean.

[Keyser Söze]

@Vedith - how long have you been playing mafia?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

[Keyser Söze]

Would be excellent if a good portion of players who agreed to join this game would actually take part in the game. Having multiple lurkers only harms town.

This is a pro town comment, just saying.

Pro town yes, but it can be said by both town or scum. Thus null, just saying.

[Keyser Söze]

Hmm, do I (a) talk about the elephant in the room... or (b) let it resolve itself?

[Keyser Söze]

Pro town yes, but it can be said by both town or scum. Thus null, just saying.

I don't think you understand how to give or take town points to/from people

Anything done CAN be done by either align.

This is a pro town comment. He gets town points. Not enough to be in my town part though.

Yes,

it is a Pro Town comment

, but why couldn't scum have made that observation? That is an easy town-point to give out.

Anyway, Fraggernaut isn't even in your 'town pile'.

Do you honestly believe I would say this as scum? You thought the same thing either the first or second game we played together & it lead to you getting me mislynched as town. I'm going to take this with a grain of salt.

I wasn't calling you scum you (your wagon is looking quite tempting now do you think before you hit Submit? Seriously.) I'm saying that just because it is a pro-town thing to say, it doesn't mean that it's coming from town. It is null.

[Keyser Söze]

@Vedith - how long have you been playing mafia?

Just over a week. Maybe 2 weeks.

Can you answer the question. This page is an utter horror show.

@Keyser I have a question for you. May be considered a Meta question or one to stroke my own ego but I'm going to ask it. Do you honestly believe that myself, with only four or five completed games (all as town) that I have the capability to 100% replicate or emulate my town game as scum?

@Fraggernaut, do you want to be lynched today?

[Keyser Söze]

Vedith is either newb-town, or newb-scum. I can't believe what he just did

[@Fraggernaut, you basically just told me to lynch you. Work to your win-con FFS. There is no honour in getting yourself lynched just to prove that

you're right

and

they are wrong

. Calling yourself town every other post is not a defence. It is anti-town. You need to look at your town-game.]

[Keyser Söze]

Can you answer the question. This page is an utter horror show.

I did answer.

So your mafia experience is 2 weeks...?

Did you play mafia before your join date (mafiascum)?

[Keyser Söze]

I have basically given

6 names

who have scum within them.

3 scum from these Vedith, eh?

PatientZer0
Fraggernaut
Frozen Angel
BlockyMan
Slandaar
BulletNLynchproof

[Keyser Söze]

@Keyser do you have a answer to my #537?

You answer it, and I'll add comments after.

But yes, in the town-Fraggernaut narrative, if there was scum on your wagon, if they unvoted early they would win marginal town-cred if you were to flip town later. In the classic sense, scum would jump off a wagon later if they feel it is unlikely to go anythere. On the flip-side, scum can win cheeky town points for jumping off it when the wgaon is thriving (knowing it is a wagon on town).

[Keyser Söze]

if I am lynched/killed they are still there for you to work on.

How are we expected to work on these? It is a naked list of names:

Town;
Vedith
RC
Accountant
Errant
All Alone
Keyser
Frozen Angel (ish)

3 scum from these Vedith, eh?

PatientZer0
Fraggernaut

Frozen Angel

TheFuzzylogic99

BlockyMan
Slandaar
BulletNLynchproof

Keyser, why is your vote still on fuzzy?

1) I do not town-read TheFuzzylogic99
2) It was a part-lurker vote to spring him into action (result: epic fail)
3) I'm working through my reads and TheFuzzylogic99 is still in my scum-pile

So your mafia experience is 2 weeks...?

Did you play mafia before your join date (mafiascum)?

@Vedith. ^^^

Give me a reason for each of my town reads to not be town.

NO, tell me why YOUR town-reads are town.

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser, why is your vote still on fuzzy?

Wait a minute, why

shouldn't

my vote be on TheFuzzylogic99?

[Keyser Söze]

@Keyser -

Ok then, the 3 scum are in here ladies and gentleman. We have a

50% chance

of hitting scum. Who should we lynch?

PatientZer0
Fraggernaut
TheFuzzylogic99
BlockyMan
Slandaar
BulletNLynchproof

Game solved.

Spoiler:

[Keyser Söze]

514: Vedith scum lean
515: Fuzzy null-scum lean

Not that I disagree with you, but this is why it is perceived that you are contradicting yourself. (Key is still town though)

Well things got a bit different when as soon as I posted that Vedith was a scum-lean read of mine he decided to roleclaim, thus, I tend not to vote for PR-claimers - that shit kinda sorts itself out at night.

Ok, I'm not going to beat around the bush anymore ( )

Why da fuk would you soft-claim (wait a minute, not soft, it's a practically hard claim) a town-PR without being anywhere near 'intent to hammer'.

I don't understand your games.

Newb-town, newb-scum, bad-town, bad-scum? I don't care. Do you think we have 5 doctors?

Seriously, WTF guys?

[Keyser Söze]

Do you not think that we have protective roles then?

I am not going to answer that question. We have had enough roleclaims today.

[Keyser Söze]

The way Errantparabola staged his early BulletNLynchproof vote unnerved me slighty (post 108), however, his following explanation and observations seem logical steps to me:

Spoiler:

184 In this post, BNLP asks me why I voted him. On a scale of 1-10 on the "how much do I want to kill you" scale, it would be about a 2. The reason I didn't like 56 is that it seemed to me like you were trying to associate not being proactively town with scum and that makes it a lot easier to mislynch people. 84 seems to lead the same way. I hope I'm making clear how your posts would lead me to make that conclusion.

193 seems alright to me but the case is weak.

198 seems less alright to me but I'm still hesitant to lynch here considering how fast the wagon's grown.

202 I wish this post didnt exist.

216 I wish this post didnt exist.

Hypothetically, if we were to lynch fragger and he did flip town, I would look at Frozen and Bullet as potential scum on that wagon.

249 agree wholeheartedly.

Moving on to the Bullet reads list in the next post.

Errantparabola challenges all the easy town-reads flying my way (post 293). I like this. I think scum-Errantparabola would be more concerned with other people's scum-reads than town-reads.

I didn't like the timing of Errantparabola's post about quick-lynching at the time of Fraggernaut's quick-wagon (post 300), but I'm not going to give out a scum-point here.

Errantparabola showing good town-hesitation (post 378).

Errantparabola earns enough town-points to not be in my scum-pile, but he is no way in my 'comfortable zone'. More contributions please.

Null-town-lean.

[Keyser Söze]

scum-o-meter
Keyser: 1/10
Frag 3/10
Vedith 4/10
All Alone 5/10
Bullet 6/10
Frozen 7/10
Radiant 9/10

Accountant ?/10
Slandaar ?/10
PatientZer0 ?/10
Errantparabola ?/10
TheFuzzylogic99 ?/10

[Keyser Söze]

Dear god i hope vedith is mafia.

How does it feel to be on Vedith's

'3 of these 6 people are confirmed scum'

list?

[Keyser Söze]

Can we stop with the

'I'm not scum because I am town'

defences please. Those arguments tend to go in circles. No one is "confirmed" anything until a flip.

[Keyser Söze]

Wow PatientZer0, we share many similar reads (post 595). Yes, Frozen Angel has shown enthusiasm to be involved in all the major talking points (which I like). The emotions that are conveyed through her posts speak more

genuine-townie

than

insincere-scum

.

BlockyMan
PatientZer0
Fragger

There you go Keyer, I present the scum!

UNVOTE: BnLP
VOTE: Fragger

Jump on guys, Vedith has found the 3 scum.

PatientZer0
Fraggernaut

TheFuzzylogic99

BlockyMan

Slandaar

BulletNLynchproof

What made TheFuzzylogic99, Slandaar and BulletNLynchproof town? Answer carefully this time.

I'm willing to policy lynch this slot fwiw.

I'm not going to disagree with this. My patience is thinning on his slot.

TheFuzzyLogic99 has 4 hours to respond to his or he will be replaced

UNVOTE: TheFuzzyLogic99

[Keyser Söze]

Can you lot quote with the post link? Otherwise I have no idea what reference the original message is, and I don't feel like back tracking on day 1.

^^^
This. Thanks.

Get outta here!

Do you have no desire in explaining your town/scum reads with any coherence or reason?

what the heck, Radiant isnt getting lynched anytime soon,

might as well go with SR number 2

. No one put him at L-1, its too early for that.
VOTE: BulletNLynchProof

scum-o-meter
Keyser: 1/10
Frag 3/10
Vedith 4/10
All Alone 5/10
Bullet 6/10
Frozen 7/10
Radiant 9/10

Show me where BulletNLynchProof was your #2 scum-read, or anything that resembles a scum-case on BulletNLynchproof.

Please can you also explain your town/scum reads with coherence/reason.

This shit has to stop fellas, otherwise you will be lynched

.

[Keyser Söze]

Do you have no desire in explaining your town/scum reads with any coherence or reason?

I gave a reason for Zero scum read.
The question you asked is "what made them town?".
I think that you need to realise that nothing made them town, but I decided that the other 3 were scum.
Am I wrong? Maybe

Regardless, I'm going with that for now.

If 'nothing made them town', which pile are they in then now? Scum-lean, null-scum-lean, null?

TheFuzzylogic99
Slandaar
BulletNLynchproof

OK, you are scum-reading PatientZer0 based on the fact he is attacking you the same way he attacked you in a previous game where you were town and he was scum (?)... you are scum-reading Fraggernaut because you think he is buddying up to you to help a miss-lynch (?)...

Tell me more about BlockyMan.

[Keyser Söze]

^^^
Why does my corrupt mind keep reading that as fanniefart?

To be honest, I think that I would give Fragger a pass for Today only, and look to lynch him on day two.

Interesting timing - both BulletNLynchproof and Fraggernaut are L-3. By opposing the Fraggernaut lynch, he is making his own lynch even more likely. Wouldn't scum-BulletNLynchproof want to support the Fraggernaut lynch with 1 day left to the deadline?

[Keyser Söze]

Yes, scum would. He's town.
(Or both are scum, slim chance).

That was my immediate conclusion too. But I'm going to look at the votes on his wagon soon...

Also, answer to your other post. - They go into the town slot (but again, not from what they have done, but more by default).

PoE? If they can go so easily back "into the town slot", they should not have been in your '3-of-these-six-are-confirmed-scum' list. Makes me wonder why they were in your scum list in the first place

[Keyser Söze]

Again, it was by default.
We can go round in circles if that is your desire. But it will end up with the same result as you have now, and as you had 10mins ago.

Yes, that is what I'm getting at. Why post naked/empty lists if you can't support them with reason/reads?

You're wasting my time. Anyone can post a list of names.

It doesn't mean shit

. We can stop going in circles if you explain your lists and reads. If they didn't mean anything in the first place, how am I supposed to respect the new lists you post? Half my posts are trying to get you to explain your lists -

this should not be happening

Or we could all post Annie fan art.

Do you have any Studio Ghibli fan art?

[Keyser Söze]

You asked me... Wasting your own time buddy.
Respect my lists or don't, I don't give a shit. xD

The thing is, I

do

give a shit about everybody's lists and reads.

[Keyser Söze]

Deadline is in 1 day, 22 hours.

Quick re-cap of where I am...

Basically a lynch on Vedith or Fraggernaut would be

policy

lynches I would both support

if faced with a NO LYNCH

(of the two however, I have reasons to town-lean Fraggernaut, based on meta, despite his attempts to make me want to doubt myself). Prepare your roleclaims gentlemen, no wait, you already have!

BlockyMan. He hasn't explained his town-reads. He hasn't explained his scum-reads. I think unsupported reads and votes are scummy, but this is BlockyMan. BlockyMan, quit your 'after school activites' and get your ass back in here. Null-scum-lean.

All Alone won't let up with the Fraggernaut-lynch. I can see how town-All Alone could read Fraggernaut as scummy. But based on my town-lean read of Fraggernaut, and the fact All Alone's ISO is primarily focused on Fraggernaut (and not figuring out the alignment of everyone) makes me fear this is scum-All Alone. An interesting/angry ISO. A reads list from All Alone would be great.

IMO, TheFuzzylogic99 didn't have a great start. Bleeding Scar has replaced in being very opinionated regarding all the wagons, but has he shared with us his scum-reads yet? He is evidently more concerned about supporting an information-lynch, then voting/sharing his scum-reads. I'm still not sure with this slot. Null-scum-lean.


I had problems with RadiantCowbells' "confirmed scum" philosophy/playstyle, but that does not make him scum - but it does makes his slot frustrating. He ends the day as null-town-lean.

Slandarr has played a quiet / safe game so far - he won't be getting lynched D1. I would usually scum-read this behaviour but I haven't noticed any end-of-day opportunistic voting, he's been consistent. Town-lean for now, but he'll have to be more expressive of his reads later on.

Errantparabola has made some logical observations, but he hasn't put himself at the forefront of D1. Like Slandarr's slot, they've done just enough to not be scum-read read. Null-town-lean.

I'll post my positions on PatientZer0, BulletNLynchproof, Frozen Angel, Accountant and more on Vedith and Fraggernaut next.

[Keyser Söze]

PatientZer0. We share some reads. We share some logic. This bought him enough town-cred. The only thing rubbing me the wrong way on PatientZer0 was his invitation for Vedith to troll. Whether in jest or serious, the shit then hit the fan:

hey vedith you should troll some, I liked that last game

*Vedith trolls, via a hard roleclaim, naked/empty read lists and the claim he's found 3 confirmed scum*

this^ wtf is this.

VOTE: Vedith

PatientZer0: naughty town or naughty scum?


Fraggernaut. Town-lean because of meta.

I'm a policy lynch now Keyser?

Yes Fraggernaut. You have given both myself and everyone a reason to lynch you. When I defended you based on my meta-analysis you then posted,

'don't you think I could imitate my town meta?'

If I was a dayvig I would have shot you for saying that. This was an invitation for me to policy lynch your ass. Your early roleclaim. Your,

'I'm not scum because I'm town'

defence. Your

'vote me then I'll prove all you idiots are wrong and I am right'

. All sins a pro-town townie should not be committing on D1.


Accountant. Vocal. Pushes who he/she thinks is scum. Is flexible on his reads (which makes me think he is trying to solve the game in real time, but NOT 'I'm-scum-and-I'm-gonna-lynch-whoever-you-guys-are-scum-reading-the-most'). I like Accountant as town.

[Keyser Söze]

I don't do read lists. I keep my focus and attention where I think they're most useful.

But what if Fraggernaut flips town? There'll be nothing else on your ISO. If you are lynched/NK'd it'd be best if you share your reads and thoughts on

everyone

.

[Keyser Söze]

^When he was scum

^This is concerning.

[Keyser Söze]

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p7388435]I don't think I've ever seen All Alone give a reads list.[/quote]
^This changes things.

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser you missed me in your universal reads

Yes, there's a few more to go. At lunch x

[Keyser Söze]

@PatientZer0 - So you can see a definitive contrast in his town-troll, scum-troll game? Why was he mod-killed in that game?

[Keyser Söze]

Will catch-up later.

World events.

@Mod. Possible to get a 24 hour extension?

[Keyser Söze]

@Vedith. If you are a VT, never roleclaim a PR. Otherwise you out the real PR or waste an investigation/protection on you. VTs should try to attract the NK, not get lynched/policy lynched.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: BulletNLynchproof

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser you missed me in your universal reads

Frozen Angel. I had problems with this slot at the beginning: I felt like she already had knowledge of RadiantCowbells' alignment, and the fact she kept the pressure on Fraggernaut's wagon after his roleclaim. Looking at her posts as a whole, Frozen Angel is one of the few posters actively expressing her thought-process (or emotive process ), which helps to explain every action she takes. I don't want to lynch Frozen Angel. Town-lean.

I was also mod killed because I said a player was up their own arse basically, thinking high and mighty of themselves. I shall keep it nameless though.

If you are town you must play to your WIN-CON. Play the game not the players.

[Keyser Söze]

Gonna iso Fragger and Vedith, and vote who I think is more scummy. I am leaning towards voting Fraggernaut as he has claimed PR but doesn't want so say exactly what it is, making me more inclined to believe it is fake.

This feels of shit to me. I'm not sure why, exactly, but I trust my gut.

It does stink a certain shade of survivalist with a hint of beetlejuice mixed in.


Still catching up.

[Keyser Söze]

To be honest, I think that I would give Fragger a pass for Today only, and look to lynch him on day two.

I am leaning towards voting Fraggernaut as he has claimed PR but doesn't want so say exactly what it is, making me more inclined to believe it is fake.

I know my intent to vote Fraggernaut is

contradictory

with what I said earlier.

Yes
I originally voted you because your scum-reads do not make sense (do you think scum are bussing eachother?) I feared you were voting/scum-reading the most likely/viable wagon (opportunistic).

this is my current genuine biggest scumread in Accountant's lynch pool, what am I to do?

Explain to me how All Alone-Fraggernaut could be a scum team.
Why should Accountant's lynch pool effect who you want to lynch?
Do you believe Accountant is town/is a vig?

[Keyser Söze]

I still cannot see the thought-process of how BlockyMan is scum-reading and town-reading players.

BlockyMan, do you already know who is town and who is scum?

[Keyser Söze]

Pretty sure Blocky is trolling/VI

BlockyMan is not a VI. He knows what he's doing.

OH so what you say people ? push BNL to force him role claim as well?

We've had three roleclaims so far - scum will have a better idea of who's telling the truth
VT's should never early roleclaim too as it narrows down the PR-pool for them.
Accountant's roleclaim was to spur us into action (town points).

Bullet or Fragger?

Not enough people care about Vedith or Blocky to make them viable options.

You never lynch the claimed-Town Doctor, so Fraggernaut is out of the equation for D1. Only a counter-claim would change my mind.

[Keyser Söze]

No Fraggernaut, you're both lynch-bait and NK-bait. Either way you're f****d.

[Keyser Söze]

I really hope you guys know that apart from scum trying to avoid getting lynched, PRs also try to avoid the lynch as far as possible without claiming

[Keyser Söze]

18 hours to deadline

Do I dare push a BlockyMan or All Alone wagon...

Do I dare push a wagon on Vedith 'Mr-is-he-a-cop-or-is-he-a-vt?'...

Do I dare push BulletNLynchproof to make a full roleclaim...

Do I dare push a wagon on my town/null-town reads...

[Keyser Söze]

Also why didn't you ask for a counter for the vigi? Just wondering.

The real vig will shoot the fake vig. Moreover, Accountant didn't specify which type.

...and two Town Doctors?

Get the f**k outta here!

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: BulletNLynchproof

seriously?! :/

Were you town-reading BulletNLynchproof when you asked this?

Ok, if frozen is maf, vedith and fragger are town, if frozen is town, one of them is maf.

Show me how you came to these conclusions.

frozen, radiant, and bullet are most likely scum.

Why are you scum-reading Frozen Angel and BulletNLynchproof?

[Keyser Söze]

No ! I wasn't scum reading him either. and You put a vote on Bullet when we were talking about killing fragger , with not mentioning the reason. Surprising enough ?

OK - re-reading that page makes me understand your position/reaction better. I was catching up with the thread but wanted to post my vote (it was not RVS).

[Keyser Söze]

I want to hear Vedith's latest thoughts on BlockyMan and Fraggernaut.

@Fraggernaut - what are your reads on BulletNLynchproof and Vedith?

@Mod - VC please.

[Keyser Söze]

I AM PR, BUT NOT OUTING WHICH ONE

Shoot BlockyMan.

[Keyser Söze]

I asked the mod to replace me.

Not a bad idea...

[Keyser Söze]

Slandaar has requested replacement, now seeking one.

No way would scum replace out of this game. Town points for Slandaar's slot

K fine, Ill out. Im the

watcher

Now why would town-BlockyMan tell mafia that he is the Town Watcher?

BlockyMan reads like scum. He's vote parking on Cowbells hard and it really doesn't seem to bother him at all that nobody else is following him. He's not doing anything to push a wagon on Cowbells. I doubt a townie would be okay with nobody voting their top scum read like he is. But as scum trying to avoid attention, Blocky's play makes a lot more sense.

@All Alone - what's your latest read on BlockyMan?

dont think we should lynch in the PR pool.

Unclaimed-pool

Would not lynch

Keyser Söze
Frozen Angel
PatientZer0
Slandaar
Errantparabola
RadiantCowbells
Bleeding Scar

Would lynch

All Alone
Vedith?

[Keyser Söze]

I really doubt there's a watcher and doctor in the same setup.

Do you not think there could be a Mafia Watcher?

Is there at least one bit of doubt in your scum-read of Fraggernaut? (even when he has roleclaimed Town Doctor?)



Fraggernaut, can you point out where you have crumbed your role - I can remember you saying that you had.

[Keyser Söze]

@All Alone
Moreover, what is your read of the people who oppose the Fraggernaut lynch?

[Keyser Söze]

@Fraggernaut. Got it.

[Keyser Söze]

My #245 & 251 are similar in a way.

We're very lucky a doc didn't counter-claim you then. You should have just come out with your real role.

[Keyser Söze]

Fraggernaut hasn't roleclaimed doctor. Catch up with the thread.

[Keyser Söze]

I really doubt there's a watcher and doctor in the same setup.

Do you still hold this position?

[Keyser Söze]

well soze i am actually caught up with the thread, but you said this

Read the posts after that mate:
- I ask Fraggernaut to point out his crumbs after All Alone's comments
- Fraggernaut points out his crumbs
- I realise his real role
- I realise he should have just come out with his real role straight away

[Keyser Söze]

Right, but I never once claimed PZ.

You should have made it clear straight away brah. We all thought you had.

[Keyser Söze]

Fraggernaut, you might as well full roleclaim.

10 hours to deadline.

We need to sort a lynch. I'll likely not be awake for the deadline (early Sunday morning).

Accountant, almost everything you said in 799 can be said about All Alone or BnL. Fraggernaut isn't the best scumhunter, but he's transparently town. He's the only person other than myself I have zero intention of voting. No amount of spam in convincing me otherwise.

What is your latest read of Fraggernaut?


These are the four slots I am most uncomfortable with:
All Alone
BulletNLynchproof
Vedith
BlockyMan

[Keyser Söze]

So bringer mafia was originally conceived as a sequel to the much beloved/hated Firebringers Bag of Goodies. Which unfortunately none of the players from that wanted to participate because of the

horrible

fun experiences they got from it.

I won't be ever forgetting this game!

I can't wait for the 3rd game to complete the trilogy:

Bringer Mafia III: Return of the Roleclaims

Starring Keyser Soze

Spoiler:

Fraggernaut

Spoiler:

Vedith

Spoiler:

BlockyMan

Spoiler:

Errantparabola

Spoiler:

All Alone

Spoiler:

Slandarr

Spoiler:

[Keyser Söze]

I doubt mafia have more than 1 roleblocker-type role (if any), so we should be able to clear lots of players after N1 if their claims are true.

[Keyser Söze]

1. @Fraggernaut, why the f*** did you not protect the Town Doctor? There was only one player to "protect" last night. Not clearing up your role sooner was another anti-town blunder. Were you waiting for the Town Doctor to counter-claim you?

2. @BlockyMan, you better have watched the Town Doctor.

Also, I was totally right about Fraggernaut all along guys.

3. Are you 100% right?

4. Going to dig apart the D1 BulletNLynchproof wagon later (Errantparabola, Slandarr, BlockyMan, Keyser Soze, Fraggernaut, Accountant, Frozen Angel) - there is usually at least one scum on a miss-lynch wagon. Yes, I deserve pressure too.

I doubt mafia have more than 1 roleblocker-type role (if any), so we should be able to clear lots of players after N1 if their claims are true.

5. Come on then gents, results please. What did you do? There is no way you were all blocked if any.

[Keyser Söze]

Keynes don't act all high and mighty you lynched an obvious town over an anti town player.

Did you read the point where I said:

I deserve pressure too.

BlockyMan should know who 'visited' Bleeding Scar too. Both Fraggernaut and BlockyMan couldn't have been both blocked.

[Keyser Söze]

No I am confirming that Fragger is scum.

WIN-WIN here.
Fraggernaut flips scum, Vedith is pretty much confirmed town (get BlockyMan to watch him).
Fraggernaut flips town, we lynch Vedith day after.

[Keyser Söze]

And Accou it matters not. your not in my top town read anymore because you lied and forced lots of people to claim in end portion of last day. I trusted you because I was sure no scum will lie about being a vig but now you just denied to be one. Why a scum can't fake be a vig and deny it in the following day?

Sometimes it is a good gambit - if scum think a town vig is going to kill a townie they won't block/NK him. Plus, scum will try to be on the fake-vig's good books all day, so they aren't shot.

@Accountant - who did you think was sucking up to you D1?

[Keyser Söze]

Fraggernaut. Full roleclaim please. Something you should have done D1...

[Keyser Söze]

Vedith said he has a "confirmed" on Fraggernaut.

Fraggernaut must now full roleclaim.

We also need any other investigation results (BlockyMan) too before someone is put at L-1/hammered.

[Keyser Söze]

@vedith - Fraggernaut is confirmed scum, correct?



...and I forgot to say, welcome Expedience. Please pick D1 apart when you have time.

[Keyser Söze]

PatientZer0, Vedith, calm down guys - let's get to the bottom of the roleclaims/investigations first.

Someone is lying - we need to

'lynch the liar'

.

[Keyser Söze]

1) I will catch-up tomorrow morning.
2) Can we please use all the day phase.
3) No more fake 'scum confirmations'.
4) No more fake roleclaims.

[Keyser Söze]

WIN-WIN here.
Fraggernaut flips scum, Vedith is pretty much confirmed town (get BlockyMan to watch him).
Fraggernaut flips town, we lynch Vedith day after.

Most opportunist comment going here.

1) you are not the Town Cop
2) you did not have a guilty investigation on Fraggernaut

If you are town this behaviour is inexcusable.

[Keyser Söze]

1- Kaser was 100% sure frag is town

Incorrect. Based on meta-reasons, I was town-lean-reading Fraggernaut D1. But it was not a 100% town-confirmation/town-read.

2- Kayser said "he town read slandar slot because " there is no way a scum would leave this game! " in day 1 (don't have the time to find it right now)

Correct. I was wrong about Slandaar's motivation to replace out.

3- He was in Bullet's wagon in day 1 for JUST following everyone else

Incorrect. I had my own reasons to scum-read/vote BulletNLynchproof. What were your reasons for scum-reading/voting BulletNLynchproof? D2, I thought at least 1 scum was on his wagon (Errantparabola,

Slandarr

,

BlockyMan

, Keyser Soze,

Fraggernaut

, Accountant, Frozen Angel). I do not believe all 3 scum would be on his wagon (following the classic '

some-on-some-off

' theory).

4- and he wanted to slow down the game last day we found Expendith.

Correct. I wanted to slow down the day-phase to catch-up.

[Keyser Söze]

I notice that Keyster didn't address any of my points to him in #1191

Great production value, but not enough Severus Snape for my liking.

[Keyser Söze]

BulletNLynchproof

[LYNCH]: Errantparabola,

Slandarr

,

BlockyMan

, Keyser Soze,

Fraggernaut

, Accountant, Frozen Angel

Fraggernaut

[LYNCH]: All Alone, Accountant,

Vedith

, RadiantCowbells, Frozen Angel, PatientZer0

Expedience

[LYNCH]: Frozen Angel, RadiantCowbells,

Vedith

, All Alone, Accountant

Notes

Both Accountant and Frozen Angel were on both the 2 miss-lynches and the scum-lynch (being unafraid to put your money where your mouth is a town-trait).

Did scum miss a trick by not bussing their scum-teammate Expedience? It's easy to win town-cred by bussing your dead-weight scum-buddy.

Is Errantparabola still playing? Non-existent around all 3 wagons.

[Keyser Söze]

We've lost at this rate. Lynch PatientZer0 tomorrow.

Last minute scum-distancing?

Time to take apart Expedience's ISO and re-read PatientZer0's interactions with the Slandarr/Expedience slot.

[Keyser Söze]

Incorrect. Everyone are free to check your Iso since the beginning in D1 and D2. You actually never voted him even when you said "he is actually asking you to lynch him"

I never said I was "100% sure frag is town" (I have actually posted my disgust at players '100% confirming' players through-out this game. I would never say someone is 100% anything without an investigation).

I town-lean-read Fraggernaut

- I fully explained his

attack-everyone-paranoid

play-style (which I eloquently posted here: post 352). I only supported his D2 policy-lynch if faced with a NO LYNCH (post 725). Please do not miss-rep what I have posted because it will throw suspicion on your slot.

and I actually found Expdience as scum In day 3...

Just because you voted Expedience doesn't make you town. I town-read you for other reasons. Moreover, I am not scum for not jumping on his wagon.

what have you done for town so far sir?

Read my ISO. That is the game.

[Keyser Söze]

trying to revive the P0 wagon.

PatientZer0 has been a town-read of mine since D1.
However, Expedience's interactions regarding PatientZer0 strongly indicates either 'scum-distancing' or 'pushing a counter-wagon' - thus, it deserves attention.

[Keyser Söze]

I like a Patient/Errant team.

I thought maybe Keyser but no way in hell would he kill Vedith

.

Vedith was night-killed because he was indirectly town-confirmed (via BlockyMan's Town Watcher investigation). I do not think mafia were worried about setting up a miss-lynch.

@everyone - when is a mass-roleclaim advisable, today or tomorrow?

Keyser whats your opinion on errant

Errantparabola joined mafiascum on March 13, 2015 - he is not a newb. I would have thought he would be more engaged, direct and vocal when scum-hunting. Usually when a townie has a scum-read you will push it to find answers (Errantparabola possesses a weak-ISO). His low-activity around the 3 wagons hints active-lurking (scum-indicative).

I do not think we should hammer Errantparabola without hearing his defence/roleclaim first (based on the fact there are still 2 scum alive).

[Keyser Söze]

Errant is def scum, I can sort out keys/p0 later.

Are you town-reading All Alone?

[Keyser Söze]

Is it just me that thinks these questions are made by someone trying to seem like they're actively engaged in the game?

Is this a confession?

RC could be scum. All Alone I need to read his wall but his scumhunting seems down a level from our previous game ie could be scum. Accountant scumish. Angel is town.

Could you explain Angel? And is there anything else about All Alone other than meta that justifies him as scum?

The WIFOM is strong with this post.


Regarding Slandaar's slot (while the pressure/votes were on BulletNLynchproof and Fraggernaut):

We can easily grill him on a later day, no?

[Keyser Söze]

If Errantparabola flips scum, then yes, I agree how that looks suspicious. Errantparabola is not confirmed scum yet, so I would advise reading his ISO like I did.

His low-activity around the 3 lynch-wagons was admittedly the starting point of my suspicion of his slot.

[Keyser Söze]

so in the first part of this post its like your saying you know Erra is town

in second part your trying to show why your scum reading him ?!

Incorrect. I do not know "Erra is town", and neither is he confirmed scum.

Correct. Based on his behaviour I am scum-reading him.

[Keyser Söze]

I do not think we should hammer Errantparabola without hearing his defence/roleclaim first (based on the fact there are still 2 scum alive).

[Keyser Söze]

@Frozen Angel - never hammer someone without them posting their defence/roleclaim.

I suggest no-one votes straight away, as the two mafia will hammer if there is a vote on town.

[Keyser Söze]

this

looks like you knew he was town

. what do you have in your defense sir?

Reason: I'm good at reading behaviour. He was not confirmed scum. I did not think he was confirmed town either, but he deserved to defend himself/roleclaim.

BulletNLynchproof

[LYNCH]:

Errantparabola

,

Slandarr

,

BlockyMan

, Keyser Soze,

Fraggernaut

, Accountant, Frozen Angel

Frozen Angel and Accountant are very unlikely BOTH mafia. Either TOWN-TOWN or 1 SCUM - 1 TOWN.

Who's up for a Keyser lynch?

Am I your top scum-read now?

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser/Accountant in that order please.

Do you still feel that way, based on Errantparabola's flip?

[Keyser Söze]

I like a Patient/Errant team. I thought maybe Keyser but no way in hell would he kill Vedith.

Based on Errantparabola's town-flip, does this effect your read of PatientZer0's slot?

[Keyser Söze]

Who's up for a Keyser lynch?

No.

I am going to say Keyset is 100% scum

No. Worst introduction ever into a game.

I'm thinking this is Accountant here since he's been powerlynching and his reads are super static but I'm not really sure about the P0 now Shiro slot either.

Yes - looking at the 4 wagons, Accountant is very likely scum.

Frozen Angel is very likely town.

RadiantCowbells is the third townie. He could have just said

'let's lynch Keyser'

and it would have been over.

[Keyser Söze]

Theory (will go into ISO/wagon analysis later):

Fraggernaut

[LYNCH]:

All Alone

,

Accountant

,

Vedith

, RadiantCowbells, Frozen Angel,

PatientZer0

RadiantCowbells (L-5):

Blocky Man

Not Voting:

Errantparabola

,

Expedience

, Keyser Soze,

Fraggernaut

PatientZer0 early-hammers.
2 scum on, 1 scum off.

Expedience

[LYNCH]: Frozen Angel, RadiantCowbells,

Vedith

,

All Alone

,

Accountant

PatientZer0 (L-4):

Expedience

Not Voting:

PatientZer0

,

Errantparabola

, Keyser Soze

Accountant joins late for town-cred.
1 scum on, 1 scum off.

Errantparabola

[LYNCH]:

All Alone

, RadiantCowbells,

Accountant

, Frozen Angel
Not Voting:

PatientZer0

,

Errantparabola

, Keyser Soze

1 scum on, 1 scum off.

Who's up for a Keyser lynch?

I am going to say Keyset is 100% scum

ILLUMINATI CONFIRMED

Next up... mafia-scum team WIFOM analysis...

[Keyser Söze]

PatientZer0 is likely scum

. 611 is terrible. He's extremely defensive as well. A lot of his behavior is just exhibitionistic and his push on Vedith feels fake and forced. I think either him or Vedith is scum, but not both. I would vote here today if not for Fraggernaut.

...and he doesn't vote PatientZer0...

This scum-read.

[Keyser Söze]

Actually RC is possible too buuuut I'm way more confident in my Keyser read so let's just lynch him first and see if the night clears things up.

VOTE: Keyser

Are you feeeling the pressure?
Why did you just vote? Do you not want to hear Shiro's full analysis/reads first - or do you already know where they'll be voting?

You both came into the day in KEYSER IS SCUM- lynch mode. shiro's "keyser is 100% scum" line will enter my 'wall of shame'.


Radiant could have ended the day earlier if he had wanted. There is no reason why scum-RC would be against my early lynch.

[Keyser Söze]

Your overreaction to my early hypothesis is not helping you.

"early hypothesis" - unfortunately you revealed your cards too early

No way should you be in a position to say one player is "100% scum" if you are a townie in LYLO

[Keyser Söze]

Why haven't I been hammered yet?

[Keyser Söze]

Not a bus.
Accountant is scum. Now he is waiting for the hammer.

[Keyser Söze]

Lynch Accountant.

[Keyser Söze]

Town lose.

[Keyser Söze]

Well-played mafia. Deserved winners.

[Keyser Söze]

ILLUMINATI CONFIRMED

[Keyser Söze]

Wait until after the flip before claiming scum-partners - imagine if I was a 1-shot unlynchable townie...