Mini 1748: ClownTardis Mafia - GAME OVER!
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Persivul
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In post 7, Plottin Kittehs wrote:Second! I am good at counting.
VOTE: Persivul for forgetting to complain about his dislike of hydrae
--P
I didn't forget, conscious decision not to.
VOTE: FAQ2
Not quite random.-
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In post 9, Plottin Kittehs wrote:4th post!
Because you complained about it both last times that you were scum against me and wanted to mix up your meta?
--P
Nope, it's a general life rule that you should change up your shtick from time to time. Don't want to be a broken record (showing my age there), or the old man yelling at kids for being in his yard.-
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How did he cheat?-
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If being cute is a crime, then consider me guilty...-
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In my last game with him he was scum and won because his playstyle appeared townie early and so he was never pressured despite not contributing much.-
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In post 35, Soren wrote:Bit quick to judge?
No. You need to start pressure somewhere, and this reason is as good as most that come up on page 1. Why don't you join me?
Since he hasn't even posted yet. I'd like to see where you go from here.
Depends on how much he contributes.-
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In post 38, BROseidon wrote:Yo Plot - I want your hydra partner to read this exchange and tell me how I should respond to it.
Pussy. Respond to it yourself.-
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In post 41, KuroiXHF wrote:BTW, I forgot to add this before but I've never watched Doctor Who.
Me neither.-
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Upset? No - it's just a game.
Wary from last time - yep, and you coming in, responding to one post about yourself, and ignoring everything else that's going on isn't making me feel any better about you.-
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In post 61, Frozen Angel wrote:In post 50, BROseidon wrote:Okay Mala's probably town.
wanna explain?
In post 62, Frozen Angel wrote:In post 59, Persivul wrote:
Upset? No - it's just a game.
Wary from last time - yep, and you coming in, responding to one post about yourself, and ignoring everything else that's going on isn't making me feel any better about you.
how much effort do you gonna put on your fear about the last game? You have anything else to bring up at this point ?
Asking questions to appear townie without actually taking stances or exerting pressure.-
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In post 67, Aristophanes wrote:Also, Persivul, you avoided the question she asked.
No, I didn't.
Are you putting any stock in what happened last game? Are you going to use it in any way (meta read for example)?
Obvious questions don't get answered.
What other contributions have you for us?
I gave one - Angel is "Asking questions to appear townie without actually taking stances or exerting pressure."-
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In post 71, Aristophanes wrote:Gotcha.
So, why comment on it without really pushing it or taking a hard stance (aka, your comment on it without a push or a vote is noted).
It's not enough to warrant a hard stance. I mean seriously, do you vote or otherwise take a hard stance every time you note something suspicious? No, you don't - no one does. So why are you asking me this question?-
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Please learn how to quote correctly. I didn't say that.-
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In post 126, Rob14 wrote:Re: Ari
I do stream of consciousness as scum too, so it is kind of my playstyle. I only do it when I have to catch up, because I know no other way to catch up really.
Really didn't like this post. Why did you bother pointing out that you do that as scum too?
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Rob13-
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So what? He was town reading you from it. If you're town and you know it's really a null tell, why bother pointing that out? How does that advance this game?
I can either point it out now, or he can dig through my meta later and figure that out. Same result, but in the latter option, he's wasting time he could be using finding scum.
False dichotomy. You could have just let it go.
In post 132, Rob14 wrote:You can literally see in the post above yours how it helped him form reads. Why would I want to not help other players in forming their reads?
These posts reek of scum trying too hard to appear helpful.-
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In post 170, Rob14 wrote:Just to be very clear, my flavor spoiler was meant more to educate on regenerations than to speculate. I probably did more speculation than I should have. The mod probably did randomize scum to regenerations now that I think about it. It would have been wise to do so.
Adaptive, I have to think about what you just said in terms of the timing.
I don't see much testing the waters from newb-scum. I generally see either aggressiveness or passiveness in a fairly absolute form, at least very early in the game. Testing the waters comes from newb-town unsure how to find scum more often than newb-scum trying to figure out where to push, in my experience.
Also, that Persivul transition isawful. Like, completely awful.
VOTE: Persivul
First, your transition to me here is pretty much the same.
Second, why is it awful? In 108 I listed Soren, FAQ2, and Broseiden as my scum pool. I had been on FAQ2 earlier. I then switched to you based on some scummy posting. WHen I felt better about you, I moved to Soren, whom I had previously scum read. What's wrong with that, particularly considering the timing - the end of Christmas Day? Must I do a PBPA to make a vote?-
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Wow, this is ridiculous:
In post 174, Rob14 wrote:1) You moved onto me when I had two votes (highest at the time)
Yeah, that's called forming a wagon to exert some pressure. Three votes are more likely to get a reaction than a single vote.
with some really shitty reasoning. You argued the reasoning to the ends of the earth, using strong statements such as "reek of scum", which isn't itself scummy, but ...
Ends of the earth? Are you lying, or just prone to hyperbole? I voted you in 129 and followed up in 141. Where the fuck do you get ends of the earth from those two posts?
2) Other people move off of me, and then suddenly you "feel better about me".[/quote]
1. No, between 141 and my unvote in 168, no one else moved off your wagon.
2. Yes, when a wagon isn't gaining traction I move my vote. And?
You don't give any rationale for this at all. You do reference today's posting and now say you switched to me due to "scummy posting" in the first place, so I assume you haven't gone back on your reasoning from before and are just claiming I'm less scummy lately.
Yep. I haven't moved you from null to town, but your wagon wasn't gaining and there are other targets to look at.
This does not feel like a natural transition at all. It feels like you hopped on to me when a wagon formed and hopped off when the wagon left.
Except for that pesky fact that I was the first person off the wagon. Your misrepresentation of the facts is moving you back to the scummy side of null.
Why are you lying about the events in order to make a case on me?
I'm going to need to hear why you're no longer voting me and why you are voting Soren if I'm to remove my vote from you, because from what I can see, your move onto and off of me look awful.
Fuck you.
Bring it on.
I'm not concerned.-
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In post 175, Frozen Angel wrote:Persivul I think I asked you an important question back there that I really want to see your answer about
Are you referring to my town read on Aristophanes? That was based mostly on 23 and 70.
any update about your post 108 ?
No. Not much has happened since then to change my reads.-
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In post 182, Rob14 wrote:Persivul, like 3 people said they thought I was town between your vote and unvote. The wagon was sinking fast.
I am prone to hyperbole, but I stand by the fact that "reeks of scum" is indicative of a strong scum read or at least a point that would have to be addressed before you'd reconsider your read. It's a particularly strong statement.
In post 183, Rob14 wrote:Like, anyone can look at the tread and see there was no longer any pressure or momentum in that wagon. You even basically admit as such. So why you're trying to claim I'm misrepresenting the game state is beyond me.
1. To me, wagon refers to votes, not reads.
2. Yes, people who have played with you before were beginning to town read you, and as I'm having trouble reading you, that factored into my move.-
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In post 184, Rob14 wrote:Scum has a motivation to avoid scrutiny above all else.
And I have the highest post count in the game. I'm not concerned with avoiding scrutiny. Scrutinize away. Lynch me if you like, but playing like that you'll likely end up with a knife in your back yourself.-
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In post 188, Frozen Angel wrote:In post 181, Persivul wrote:What's your take on Rob13? I'm having a hard time reading him.
He looks like a mad town But I like his posts!
There is one point concerning about you persival , Why you got so hellish defensive against Rub push? I thought I'm the only one who would react that emotional to 2 single votes.
You'll see in time.-
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In post 175, Frozen Angel wrote:Persivul I think I asked you an important question back there that I really want to see your answer about
And your response to my answer?-
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In post 197, Frozen Angel wrote:I'm not seeing you scum to have weak townreads. But I can't see why your strongly town read someone with those two posts.
23 - "I will when I get an answer. There is a method to this." Scum tend to be straight-forward and opportunistic. Asking a question with possible follow-ups already in mind is a strong indication of a town mindset - someone genuinely trying to figure out the game.
70 - "Basically, if you read the story post, it implies we are all Doctors, in different regenerations. Thus my counter question. What would 1) lead FA to believe Shiro is not a Doctor and 2) lead her to believe we are facing an outside evil, and not, say, a corrupted regeneration while 3) using "a" not "the" as the article precursing "Doctor."
Theory: FA is a non-doctor with a Doctor as a fakeclaim."
Same thing with the theory. Scum already know the setup and so don't tend to think in terms of alternate possibilities. Also, this scenario is plausible, but if it were true, scum would be very unlikely to put it out as a theory. Pointing out the possibility of supplied fakeclaims to people makes then more wary of claims, so a scum with a fakeclaim doesn't want people thinking along those lines.-
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My other full town read was Plottin kittehs. That's based on:
7, 9 - Instead of laying low in RVS already pressuring me based on (incorrect) meta.
49 - the other head disagrees, noting that she had seen me do the same thing as town. This doesn't seem to me like something that scum would plan out in their hydra discussions. It feels like genuine conflict between the heads. I'm not a big hydra player but I would imagine that heads would be more likely to try to stay in sync as scum than as town.
53 - pointing out adaptive's sheeping. No motivation fro scum to do so.-
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Frozen Angel:
17, 18, 25 - a little suspicious of the fluff, but I sometimes joke around quite a bit in the first couple pages so I tend to give others the benefit of the doubt. It is a game after all.
64 - I liked "I need to do my tests ..." As above, this indicates to me a town mindset.
Then frankly I felt sorry for her for getting caught up in the doctor/Doctor Who discussion, which I think was unnecessary.-
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Regarding my nulls:
Rob remains a null, as he has both townie and scummy posts IMO. Just when I think he's townier he does something scummy. As he says he maintains his meta carefully this may be by design - the game's not fun if you're so townie that you get killed every N1. As town I always look somewhat scummy on D1 as I'm not being careful with my wording like I would be as scum, but I don't mind the scum reads as it keeps me from taking NKs.
(BTW Rob, after your chewing out everyone after Blitz 1 as moderator, I expected you to be a more aggressive player in tone.}
As noted on Davsto, there are enough scummier people to take him at his word that he's slow on D1. If that remains on D2, I'll reconsider. Still null.
Adaptive Heap - not enough to go on, still null.
Shiro:
117 - calling attention to her own lack of activity seems townie
146 - I agree that the focus on davsto could be better placed today
158 and following - like the pressure on Soren and the reasoning
So, upgrade Shiro to lean town.-
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In post 216, Adaptive Heap wrote:Can you explain why that's town?
Because if he were scum just needing someone to push, there were easier targets, particularly when I thought he was the first to say that about Rob.-
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In post 241, Adaptive Heap wrote:In post 239, Persivul wrote:In post 216, Adaptive Heap wrote:Can you explain why that's town?
Because if he were scum just needing someone to push, there were easier targets, particularly when I thought he was the first to say that about Rob.
Well it was a replace-in post which gave no reasoning and ended up in a vote on Rob.
I mean who was the easier target with that reasoning (ie, none)? Kuroi? davsto?
Yes.
Several folks had already pointed at Rob for one reason or another. Seems pretty easy to me.
-t
Yep. On closer examination I've already noted that myself and downgraded my read on NM. So, why do you point it out as well?-
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In post 243, Frozen Angel wrote:half of his read list is just giving away free credits.
Yesterday I went back and provided the reasoning for almost all my reads. Why do you say I'm "just giving away free credits"?-
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In post 244, Frozen Angel wrote:I forgot Aristophanes. the only thing he did was a vocab fight with me
He pushed FAQ2 in 70 & 79. Why do you say he hasn't done anything except a vocab fight with you?-
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What do you think of my reads yesterday?
If you're town, we need to get on the same page.-
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In post 250, Frozen Angel wrote:
first I'm happy you provided that list. I can see why you got angry about my sentense about you. That was a bit exageration.
Speaking of exaggeration, why did you read anger in my response?
your list is not that bad. but its not perfect.
Of course not. You're just filling space by saying that.
You judged people based on what you call you don't expect their coming from scums. the scary thing here is that you don't consider them coming from a scum who is faking them. I mean who play different when he is scum?
Would you prefer that we all be paralyzed by wifom?
The basis of the game is that peopletryto play the same as town and scum, but are unable to truly do so. Accordingly I'm trying to read people on that basis.
I don't like the way you just say these players are in my conf town list because they posted like a town mind set.
Conftown is not one of the categories in my list. No one is conftown at this point.
Again, looking for a town mindset is a primary method of reading people.
What do you look to for reads, particularly on D1?
Persivul wrote:
I don't like to call that a push. if its his push its more like active lurking. plus I think that FA is probably me ... not FA-Q2
Oh, so saying he hasn't done anything but argue vocabulary with you is a self-serving misrepresentation of his posts.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Frozen Angel-
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In post 254, Frozen Angel wrote:Let me explain it in more simple words :
real scum hunting is this : you must assume everyone as scum. try to push them. see their reactions. try to find their weak spots. push them more. they will sort themselves out as town or as scum.
Then you're not scum hunting by your own definition. You've made one vote since RVS. You're not pushing people at all.-
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In post 259, Rob14 wrote:
First, no, we don't. I don't know your alignment, and I have no desire to "get on the same page as you" if that means adopting your reads when I think you're scum.
By get on the same page I mean you town reading me, or at least moving me to null.
My biggest problem with you is still this. I just read your "case" on Soren, and it doesn't make sense for you to go off of me and onto him given how strongly you wrote about my play being scummy earlier in the day. Maybe I missed it, but have you explained why I was "better" after the more recent posting? That might be the missing link there, idk.
Prior to that day:
44 - your post on me was bad.
55 - declaring kuroi as newbtown was bad
57 - you make an obligatory town read with no reasoning
120 - you make a misrep of me that IIRC others had already noted was incorrect, then you vote an easy wagon, then add a disclaimer in 121 and again in 123
On that day:
142 - the explanation for volunteering the meta bit was bad
163 and 165 - if davsto's wagon is hitting resistance and Soren's post was horrible, why not move to Soren? It's D1, wagons shift.
But in 170, a horrible post from me was enough to get you to move your vote from the davsto wagon.If Soren flips scum, you should be looked at next.
I intended to show that your 12.25 posting was better as a defense, but now that I look at it closer, it's pretty bad. Before the game I know Iwantedyou to be town so I could learn something about scum hunting, and I think that played into the post that you're pushing.-
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Yes, and? You're assuming without reason that I can't change such a read. I've explicitly said I don't consider anyone conftown at this point. Why do you pretend that I do have conftowns?-
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In post 267, Frozen Angel wrote:Whats a full town read?
A town read that's stronger than lean town and weaker than conftown (actually I don't consider conftown a read, such status needs to come from other sources).
and what can change it ?
Anything.
how are they in a full town read state if you never pressured them or interacted with them directly about their reads?
I already gave my reasoning. It's D1 and there are 12 other players. I don't see a need to pressure them all today. You don't seem to be doing so either.-
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In post 269, Rob14 wrote:So, you have no explanation for your transition whatsoever? What was with the passionate defense of the transition, then?
In post 176, Persivul wrote:I'm going to need to hear why you're no longer voting me and why you are voting Soren if I'm to remove my vote from you, because from what I can see, your move onto and off of me look awful.
Fuck you.
Bring it on.
I'm not concerned.
Like, I'm bringing it, and you appear to have nothing...
And I'm not concerned. There's more there than meets the eye.
I'm trying to understand where that transition came from. If you were scum, it would be a convenient transition. If you were town, you'd have some rationale for it. So your roadmap to "get on the same page" is to explain to me clearly what you were thinking at the time you made the transition, if that's what you want to do. That doesn't mean you have to agree with your own rationale now - if you changed your mind on my posting, that's not scummy. But I need to understand what you were thinking then, or my scumread will persist (and probably strengthen, for that matter).
Reviewing that day I'm no longer interested in getting on the same page with you.-
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In post 270, Frozen Angel wrote:In post 268, Persivul wrote:It's D1 and there are 12 other players. I don't see a need to pressure them all today.
this is literally the worst excuses whatsoever.
Why?
Is it your experience that every player pressures every other player on D1?-
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In post 265, Persivul wrote:163 and 165 - if davsto's wagon is hitting resistance and Soren's post was horrible, why not move to Soren? It's D1, wagons shift.
But in 170, a horrible post from me was enough to get you to move your vote from the davsto wagon. If Soren flips scum, you should be looked at next.-
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Any scummy behavior. For instance, people asking questions to which the answer is obvious...-
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In post 264, Frozen Angel wrote:Whats your current read on Ari and plotty kittens? I seriously don't like the way they got universally town readed so soon when there was no pressure on them.
And do you know what the check on that is?-
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In post 279, Frozen Angel wrote:Broseiden is someone who I really like to have a conversation with actually atm. he is inside the lurkers category.
Funny you don't mention that until I bring it up.
Rob made a town read and pressured you. you made town reads and did nothing. that's the difference.
What in the world does Rob's pressure onmehave to do with his town read ofKittehs?-
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In post 282, Frozen Angel wrote:and tell me 1 reason why your voting me and not asking any questions about me.
Are you fucking insane?-
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In post 280, Persivul wrote:In post 264, Frozen Angel wrote:Whats your current read on Ari and plotty kittens? I seriously don't like the way they got universally town readed so soon when there was no pressure on them.
And do you know what the check on that is?
I'll answer for you...the check on someone who is universally town read on D1 is that if they haven't been NK'd by D3, it's really suspicious.
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