Large Normal 212: Korts' Geriatrics - Game Over @1831

[insanity018]

/confirm

[insanity018]

Sounds good!

VOTE: Eddie

[insanity018]

I'm finding Pine's responses to be quite over-the-top (especially 40, 52)

With that said, joking in response to his wagon, and then stating it was a joke is exactly what I thought was off? I don't understand how your post meaningfully engages with mine.

What do you think is off about it?

[insanity018]

I'm not replying to #51 if that's what you're waiting for Chamber. If you just meant 57 in general, nvm.

Your posts have been this and making RVS jokes.

Do you have an opinion on anything that has happened? Eg, Chamber v Pine?

[insanity018]

I don't believe that failing to confirm in-thread is particularly alignment-indicative.

I think Pine's explanation that he was PM-ing the mod a question seems plausible, particularly seeing that Korts later clarified that rule in 45. But, I think Pine's responses in the Pine v Chamber seem a bit contrived and fake-emotional. I also don't like how he is getting most engaged in theory-ish discussions that are not directly relevant to people's alignment, another example in 81.

You being scum is entirely dependent on Eddie being scum. I just don't like post 55 into 65 from insanity. 55 feels like she was just asking an easy question in light of the fact that she mostly has the answer for herself by 65. I Don't really buy that his one post triggered her figuring it out for herself. I don't see this as being inconsistent with her busing, but it doesn't need to be either.

My problem with Eddie Cane is his joking around and not engaging with anything in a substantial way.

My question to you was basically - why is the fact that Eddie confirmed his initial posts were a joke more 'off' than his jokes in the first place?

So should we just lynch between Eddie and Pine who didn’t post in thread but confirmed?

I like Pine so ...

VOTE: Eddie

Actually, Magma, how did you find this? Why did you even look for it? Do you have some past experience where not confirming in-thread meant scum? This looked like it was entirely just random RVS reasoning, but when half the game went with it seriously, you did too. Was it meant to be serious from the start?

The mod stated that everyone had confirmed in 17. But Pine and Eddie Cane had not posted in thread at the time (which means they didn't confirm in thread as per instructions)

I liked your 99 though.

[insanity018]

I'm not liking Axelrod.

It's just strange.

And Pine's attempt to explain it by saying "oh, I was asking the mod. a question anyway so I just confirmed in the PM" was also strange. Especially since the question was apparently something like "How much are you, the mod. going to police bad behavior in the game?" Plus, he's being abrasive.

I mean, it's thin, but it's D1 with less than 100 posts. I could vote for Eddie, but given he's already at L-2, I don't think I'm going to just yet.

Unvote:

Vote: Pine

What do you make of the fact that Korts clarified the rule in 45? Does that make it more plausible that Pine did ask that question?

Do you think Eddie is more likely to be scum that Pine?

Mentioning that Eddie is specifically at L-2 makes seems like you are conscious of not voting him to avoid drawing attention to yourself by putting someone at L-1.

Why don't you like Insanity? If I was going to make a "way too early to make these kind of conclusions" list, he'd be one of my top for Town.

I don't think I've done anything to justify this read. What do you like about me?

[insanity018]

Eh, maybe? I hadn't thought about that before. My read of it in the thread was that Korts was responding to some testy posting that was already happening in game, and he wanted to cut that **** off at the pass. Not that he was responding to Pine's concerns.

I still think it's a little strange that Pine would be asking the mod. that kind of question anyway. At least then. Like, if I had that kind of concern, seems like something you would have PM'd the mod. about

before

you even joined the game.

Do you think Eddie is more likely to be scum that Pine?

I don't have a strong feeling about it. I'm going to say "no." Eddie hasn't said enough yet.

Mentioning that Eddie is specifically at L-2 makes seems like you are conscious of not voting him to avoid drawing attention to yourself by putting someone at L-1.

I was very conscious of the fact that Eddie was already at L-2. Which is why I pointed it out. I'm not sure how you say this was to avoid "drawing attention to myself?" I'm basically never putting someone at L-1 unless (1) I'm feeling pretty good about them being scum,

and

(2) I'm ready for the day to be over.

Why don't you like Insanity? If I was going to make a "way too early to make these kind of conclusions" list, he'd be one of my top for Town.

I don't think I've done anything to justify this read. What do you like about me?

See above. I feel like I can at least see where you are coming from with most of your posts/questions.

Hmm, okay. Fair enough.

[insanity018]

My question to you was basically - why is the fact that Eddie confirmed his initial posts were a joke more 'off' than his jokes in the first place?

Whats interesting about this question?

I'm just trying to understand your thought process.

Spoiler: Posts

I find your reaction to your wagon to be a little off.

I find your reaction to your wagon to be a little off.

Considering his entire response consisted of...

revelation: old people dont understand jokes.

...which is essentially acknowledging it as a joke, I find YOUR response to be a bit off. And frankly, as that's your second bullshit push on someone in as many pages,

VOTE: Chamber

Not RVS. Not a joke.

With that said, joking in response to his wagon,

and then stating it was a joke is exactly what I thought was off?

I don't understand how your post meaningfully engages with mine.

Emphasis mine.

my vote on kmd was serious, but not because 4th vote lolscummy if that clears things up.

No, that doesn't really clear it up. Why the serious scumread and any reasons for the townreads in 128? Especially the blatant townread on Old Man?

snip

If Pine flips scum we are lynching Tywin next 100%

Why? Please explain.

I don't really want to put in the effort until I have Pine scumflip in my grubby hands in case I'm wrong, but a.) the post has that over-workshopped, way too deliberate feel and b.) it has an overwhelming sensitivity about people's positions on Pine/Eddie where he's taking great strides to say the case itself doesn't make sense, but not that he thinks Pine and Eddie are particularly town or anything. To me it screams "My scumbuddy or buddies are being pushed by a case that looks like nonsense to me, so I'll point out how the case is nonsense without explicitly saying they're town". But I don't think townies go through all of that effort to ward off a random early game push from their null reads, you just do your own thing and try to make your wagon handsomer. Like that post mentions Eddie 11 times and Pine 10 times without actually including reads on Eddie and Pine, woof. (To be clear, I do think Eddie-scum does similarly implicate Tywin as a likely buddy, I just like Pine as scum more.)

Insanity 113 feels like it should have an Axelrod vote in it.

In relation to Tywin, I didn't feel that at first but after re-reading the post, I think this could be a fair point.

In relation to Axelrod, probably but I was also happy with keeping my vote on Eddie. I'm somewhat okay with his response in 115.

[insanity018]

I will be V/LA until May 1.

[insanity018]

UNVOTE: Eddie

Hello, I've just skimmed the thread and will aim to catchup properly sometime tomorrow. A couple of things that jumped out -

I have been thinking that Old Man's posts are a lot of words, while really saying not much. MagnaofIllusion's post in 140 closely match what I was thinking but hadn't figured out how to articulate. So, I have a slight townlean on Magna.

I'm not on board with an Old Man vote yet either. I'm not a fan of his "style" of posting, which does come across as a bit artificial. But I can't say that's scummy, and I feel like he's engaging with the thread/questioning in an okay manner.

Here, you have described Old Man's style of post as artificial. Previously, you have described his play as a 'thoughtful deep dive.' (117). What has changed?

[insanity018]

I still think

Old Man's

posts are superficial in actual content. I still like many of Magna's posts regarding Old Man.

I don't like 178 especially the explanation of trying to give the replacement some space. Chamber is not in danger of getting lynched soon.

--
Also, not liking

roflcoptor

.

VOTE: roflcoptor

old man would be my second choice for scum right now. i'm still not feeling this eddie wagon.

I take it at this point your strongest scumread was Axelrod? How come you haven't been trying to engage with him or convince other people that he was scum?

It seems convenient that you move to voting Old Man seeing that many people have expressed suspicion of him.

if i have to read one more seventeen sentence paragraph on the minutia of what constitutes a newbie under what circumstances i'm going to lose my marbles. from my understanding geriatric games are meant to free us from the shackles of overactive games that the average player couldn't keep up with. writing a novella every time you post causes just about the same problem, and old man is pontificating for the sake of burying this thread in his wordiness and trying to bait people into wall battling him. let's kick this game inaugural geriatric game off with an appropriate dose of dramatic irony by lynching the elderly.

It seems that most of your issue with Old Man is the fact that he is making lengthy wall posts (+ 1 mention of possibly white knighting Eddie). Do you believe that this type of posting style is more likely to come to scum? Is there anything in the content of his actual posts that makes you think scum?

reasons to move your vote off of eddie: just look how scummy old man is being!

unvote
vote: old man

(also mainly that eddie wagon just feels wrong on a gut level)

...But you weren't voting Eddie and you never appear to be considering voting Eddie, so why are you using "Eddie's wagon feels wrong" as the reason for your vote?

--

@Hito

This is a great post. Well, actually I'm not super sold on Old Man as scum because I'm also on the lynching Tywin train, but the main point stands that the wall wars are polluting this game and are undoubtedly pro-scum no matter the alignment of the participants, and this is a good attempt at cleanup that scum probably wouldn't have tried for.

I agree that wall wars are bad.

But I completely disagree that scum wouldn't make the post. It's an easy comment to make that doesn't require dealing with the substantial content of anyone's posts.

[insanity018]

Eddie's 156 - good to get an understanding for why Eddie thought KMD was scum. I guess it makes sense for why the KMD vote was not - RVS. I am interested to see KMD's response.

I don't get the Old Man srs, its clearly a gimmick alt look at his fuckin name lmao. I guarantee someone in this game knows who it is and told him to sign up, because the signups were quick asf and what are the odds someone who hasn't been here in so long doesn't remember his PW and checks the site right for the geriatric signups and moreover picks the name "Old Man". His angleshooting with the avi feels genuine though I think its bunk. His catchup and pushes align well and they feel genuine too. Someone finally acknowledges whats happening in 110, and I don't think scum does that. Old Man voters, any reply to this? Unvoting me (MoI) or tring me (Rofl) and voting my strong TR is a bit of a slap in the face.

I don't understand the avatar gimmick and tbh I thought the townread on Kison had trolling vibes? What do you like about / what do you find genuine about it?

--
I'm getting town-vibes from Kison's responses to Old Man (eg 162).

--
I'm not a fan of this from chamber. I don't see why that post should have changed his read on Pine (if already townreading Pine).

I despise demands like that. The burden of proof for meta demands is on the accuser.

1: this post is awful. You are no longer top town read (see, no credence).

2: You assume this is some backhanded attack against him. He has a better knowledge of his history than I do, if he can provide the counter example why wouldn't I want to see it?

--
Firebringer's case on why Magna is scum is because Magna doesn't believe Firebringer can play under the geriatric style?

[insanity018]

Hmm, I think the Old Man claim could be plausible because I've contemplated putting similar IC variants in my games. It's self-confirming regardless so whateer,

re: insanity post 232
1, yes axel was my strongest scumread at that point
2, the whiteknighting was a serious knock on him but also the wallposting itself is scummy here
3, context is everything re: my post 170, i was replying directly to pj who asked why he should move off of eddie

i'm glad someone finally decided to pick on me and not just drop another townread on me so thanks for that but your reasoning for voting me is lacking

Ok, I missed the context for 170 - the perils of spending half of my time scrolling through ISOs.

You still haven't addressed the main reason for my scumread though. What did you find scummy about Axel? How come you haven't been interacting with Axel's posts or talking about Axel despite him being for most of the time your strongest scumread?

[insanity018]

I don't have much time tonight, so this is just a quick post

Insanity, where are you looking right now aside from Roflcopter? I don't think Rofl's scum like /at all/ but regardless good to flesh it out.

Hmm, I would say
- KMD: It's weird that he's still voting you and not acknowledging that you have given a reason for your vote of him. While the lost post in 229 must be frustrating, it's weird that he hasn't at least posted a brief description of the points he wanted, especially since he knew he would be going V/LA.
- Firebringer: Seemed to be really serious about his Magnaofillusion scumread for playstyle related reasons? I'm not sure why he's voting Morality either since he's previously stated a strong townread of chamber
- Tywin: 255 is a long post that majority of the reads are superficial reasons "Kison is town because Hito is voting him" or are just null.
- possibly Hito: Some of his posts about me feels he's just slinging mud, and not trying to actually sort me or engage with me.

Insanity 232 is weirdly dissonant. If "just look how scummy Old Man is being" is a line of thought you generally agree with, how do you turn right around and go for rolfcopter for selling what you've been buying? It feels like your post was artificially looking for "who had the worst reasoning for the vote, lets call them scum" without actually meshing it with your other stated beliefs.

Because I don't presume that I am right about Old Man? I can find two people independently scummy, even if they're less likely to be scum together. I found that roflcoptor's vote after not following up on Axelrod seemed opportunistic. And found it scummier than my read of Old Man, which could possibly be a playstyle problem.

113. 134. 135 all from insanity

this is such a weird interaction between insanity, axel and hito, especially in light of insanity now voting me on account of my axel scumread

What is so weird? I think I've been pretty transparent that I've found things that were odd in Axel's post, questioned him and am fine with his responses. How and does my vote change your view of those conversations?

[insanity018]

@Mod, could we get a votecount?

Kmd's "catchup" 270 feels like just stalling. If that's the gist of the post he supposedly lost, I don't see why he would have been so upset about losing it. And couldn't have posted it earlier.

@Firebringer

- From what I can see, chamber is/was your strongest townread (131). So, why are you now voting Morality?

[insanity018]

VOTE: Kmd4390

Oh God. It's only been 2 pages, but every post is a novel. We need some player-led standards set here. Can't expect Kort to do it all. Catching up though, so prodge

I think the past 2 pages have been pretty good and much easier that many of the earlier pages in the game.

Going back to your most recent content post -

Roflcopter is town. Said Axel and Hito are scum.
Kison is town. Hito voting him.
Morality I honestly can't remember ever seeing them post in this game. Null

chamber was one of your top 3 scumreads in 99. Morality replaced chamber. What is your read of that slot now?

This is pretty shallow reasons for townreading roflcoptor and Kison. Do you like anything about their actual posting or content? Do you think it's possible that scum could bus?

[insanity018]

Hi. Why did you vote KMD, when your entire post was about Tywin Lannister? Did you misvote? Please, join us on the Tywin wagon.

Hi. It wasn't a mistake, Magna got to me first!

I also approve of the Tywin wagon though!

@Tywin,

To add to my previous questions, why did you decide to vote for Hito? Why Hito instead of Axelrod or petroleumjelly, who you've scumread from the start of the game and thought were still scum in 255? Especially considering that a wagon on Axelrod was forming? (Axelrod votes - Pine in 241, roflcoptor in 243)

[insanity018]

Oh, and I never said I forgot Pine or Eddie exist. I said I dont care about them today, because they aren't my focus. I don't SR them, so why would they be? My scum pool are the ones who hard pushed bad rvs wagons and continue to do so. If you vote one of them, I think it should be based on their responses, not the confirmation thing, and in that situation, Eddie looks scummier of the two. He didn't even join the game until later, while Pine looked pretty upfront about the situation from the start. You TR Eddie though and went after Pine (along with Axel mostly) almost 100%, rather than also look at Eddie at all. Your reasoning for SRing Pine is no different than why you should supposedly SR Eddie, yet that is not what happened. Axel did the exact same thing, ignoring Eddie and going hard after Pine, when both had the same case. Looks like a pair of scum buddies to me. Its possible Eddie is your scum buddie too based on how you both ignored him in favor of Pine, but that's only if you flip scum first. Aka you and Axel (and to a lesson extent PJ) are the best scum to flip today. .

It seems like your scumreads are based on a massive over-simplification then. As far as I can see, Axelrod and Hito's votes on Pine were based on Pine's response of "I PM'd the mod a question" and "I always PM the mod", rather than Pine's lack of confirmation itself.

Also -

Roflcopter is town. Said Axel and Hito are scum.
Kison is town. Hito voting him.
Morality I honestly can't remember ever seeing them post in this game. Null

chamber was one of your top 3 scumreads in 99. Morality replaced chamber. What is your read of that slot now?

This is pretty shallow reasons for townreading roflcoptor and Kison. Do you like anything about their actual posting or content? Do you think it's possible that scum could bus?

VOTE: Tywin Lannister

I think I prefer this to waiting for Kmd to catch up. That said, I don't really like the page-by-page catchup and not skimming ahead to see what's happened in the game.

[insanity018]

@Kmd

, do you usually do page-by-page catchups without reading ahead in the thread?

Was 270 what you had planned to post at 229, or were there other things you wanted to say?

@roflcoptor

113. 134. 135 all from insanity

this is such a weird interaction between insanity, axel and hito, especially in light of insanity now voting me on account of my axel scumread

What is so weird? I think I've been pretty transparent that I've found things that were odd in Axel's post, questioned him and am fine with his responses. How and why does my vote change your view of those conversations?

[insanity018]

Can you tell me what the scum benefit would be in "stalling"? Because I think that would be more likely to lead to votes on me, not less.

It felt you might have been trying to look busy by making posts on the past thread, while avoiding the need to engage with anything happening right now which might be more controversial.

For completeness, can you provide a link to a game where this was your style of catching up?

i don't like the tywin wagon

What is your read on Tywin?

Do you have a reason for your read on hito apart from a vague, unarticulated suspicion that he is scum with Axelrod?

In post 300, insanity018 wrote:chamber was one of your top 3 scumreads in 99. Morality replaced chamber. What is your read of that slot now?Twyin seemed pretty tempered in his scum read of Chamber in 99. This comes across as suggestion that Chamber was a strong scum candidate (on what, page 4) that he just forgot. Is that the point you are going for here?

My point was that it's weird that chamber was one of only 3 players that Tywin talks meaningfully about in that post. In particular, Tywin noted that he did have scum pings on chamber. So, it seems strange that Tywin's next post has completely forgotten that chamber existed or just decided not to acknowledge anything that chamber has posted since.

--
I just wanted to say that Morality flaking out of this game without ever posting anything substantial kinda reminds me of the lurking scum slot that was replaced 3 times during my previous geriatric game.

That said, I'm okay with Tammy's posts so far. Looking forward to seeing more of her posts.

[insanity018]

Been super busy today, will be here tomorrow!

[insanity018]

Congrats Pine!

Welcome Lycanfire. Unfortunately, I think you're in a scum slot.

hey insanity. I don't know you well, but I feel like I should? You been around awhile. Have we played together? I am or was. I don't know where my vote is. I think eddie is good person to sheep day one. He nailed half my scum team in team mafia. So like I trust his skills as long as I think he is town, and I get that town vibe from him and I really want him to tell me if he can spot what I am townreading him for. I think I have hinted at before to him what I look for in his posts.

I took a hiatus for about 2 years but I don't think we played together the last time I was on site.

Do you think Eddie Cane's scumhunting skills are vastly superior to yours? I find it weird that you are happy to sheep a townread onto voting for another townread. Putting aside Eddie Cane's scumread, what is your current read of the chamber/Morality/Tammy slot?

Helpful tip - you don't need to comment on every post!

Can you re-state your case on Magna? I am finding it difficult to see what you are trying to say.

Insanity - What did you like about Tywin's 99?

I initially liked the 3 questions asked at the end of the post. It felt like good, probing questions at that time of the game. That read has weakened (aka disappeared completely) with having a closer look at the first part of the post and Tywin's subsequent posting and lack of follow up.

[insanity018]

@Kmd, thanks for that game link.

While I don't think Tywin's replacement itself is alignment indicative, I still think Tywin is scum. His reads before replacing out did not seem genuine. They were simplistic and based on bizarre assumptions.

People I'm hard sring~

Chamber dropped a shitpost in 129 and Pine made the very reasonable reply afterwards... in 130.

cough

sorry if I leave it like that my point will be lost on people

Pine interfered with Chamber's push on Eddie. Make your good points™ all you like, I'll probably roll my eyes onto my touchpad. What shooting it down immediately does is remove any utility his poorly intended question had. Why'd you break up the fight Pine? Chiarire.

VOTE: Pine

Are you scumreading both Chamber and Pine? Where do you believe that Pine has interfered with Chamber's push?

Insanity - In 259 you say that you missed the context due to scrolling through ISO's. Are you not reading the game as it unfolds? Are you just going through ISO's?

I had just come back from a 3-4 day V/LA. So, at that point I was mostly catching up, which meant I was checking a lot of stuff in ISO.

I am sheeping Eddie Cane for foreseeable future.

Can you tell us why you townread Eddie so strongly that you are happy to sheep his vote?

Also can everyone take in the majesty of the following claimed stances by Fire -

1. I'm scum for potentially delegating my read on a single player to Pine (and he keeps also forgetting I put Eddie and now Tammy in that pool as well).
2. He's happy to delegate his vote for today to another player (Eddie) even when that results in multiple cases of him voting claimed Townreads.

I agree that I don't like those stances from Firebringer. However, I'm also feeling that his play is almost too blatant or too scummy to actually be scum.

Vote Count

(4) Lycanfire - hitogoroshi, Kison, insanity018, Old Man
(2) Pine - Axelrod, Lycanfire
(2) Eddie Cane - petroleumjelly, Tammy
(2) hitogoroshi - roflcopter, CooLDoG
(2) petroleumjelly - Eddie Cane, Firebringer
(1) Axelrod - Pine
(1) Firebringer - MagnaofIllusion

not voting:

Kmd4390

8 to lynch

Deadline is 6 PM EST on Monday the 28th of May.

[insanity018]

@Roflcoptor

Can you answer this -

i don't like the tywin wagon

What is your read on Tywin?

Do you have a reason for your read on hito apart from a vague, unarticulated suspicion that he is scum with Axelrod?

tammy devoting a lot of effort to justifying her axel townread

Do you think that is more likely to come from scum?

Given that you're voting Hito at the moment, how do you feel about Tammy constantly repeating that she has a townread on Hito based on making a comment about "grubby hands"?

[insanity018]

Wait what would coming back from a v/la have to do with how you’re reading the game? Are you reading it straight through or via ISO’s or not? And if iso why not read it straight through?

My usual play is reading straight through, while checking anything I found interesting against what the person had previously said in ISO.

When catching up after being away from the thread from a while, I need to go to through more posts in my read straight through. That means the context/timing of each individual post makes less of an impression. I still check things in people's ISO. So, when catching up after V/LA, any trends I saw from people's ISO generally makes a bigger impression on me than the read straight through.

Given that you're voting Hito at the moment, how do you feel about Tammy constantly repeating that she has a townread on Hito based on making a comment about "grubby hands"?

Can you explain what constantly repeating means to you?

Repeated with some frequency. This is something you've mentioned as the only reason given for a Hito townread 360 and 422. I find it strange that roflcoptor calls out an over-explained Axel townread, but not a similarly odd repeated explanation of a townread on Hito (who he is currently voting).

Now that you have read more of Hito's posts, what is your current read of him?

[insanity018]

@Old Man, I don't think you have answered whether you looked at any of Pine's town games for your meta case?

[insanity018]

I will be V/LA for about 48 hours.

Sorry, something unexpected came up.

[insanity018]

Catching up. Will try to keep these posts as structured as possible.

I see some discussion about my meta. I think Tammy is the only person who has played with scum me, but she replaced out fairly early in the game. My wiki is up to date.

On Firebringer

Response to Eddie Cane's 488 - My read on Firebringer is that his sheeping (even if means voting a townread) and poorly explained reads is definitely scummy. That said, I'm not sure whether the play is actually scum-motivated. So, that makes Firebringer a null read, who I believe is playing anti-town, but I don't have a scumread on him at this stage.

@Firebringer, I've noticed that you have stated at multiple points through your ISO that you liked the idea of wagoning Tywin. What exactly did you scumread about Tywin?

Whats been up with you Lycan? Seems people don't really like your slot so much.What your thoughts on people scumreading it?

This posts feels weird. You're making it sound like you're not one of the people who dislike Tywin and it feels like you're wanting to give Lycan an opportunity to defend himself.

Firebringer's post 556 - What have you not liked about Hito's post up to now? Hito's post basically says that your play seems pro-scum, but he's not sure if you are actually scum (a position I understand and agree with). He's not even voting for you. I don't think it's fair that you are characterising him as trying to lynch you despite having no read of you.

@ Eddie Cane

I can go into what made me angry and why I offered to sub if people like, but usually I just get bitched at for my AtE so I won't unless its requested.

Can you briefly explain why PJ's post made you so angry? You acknowledged in 533 that some of his points may have been fair.

On Hito

I've been liking Hito's posts. He seems to be posting similar ideas to what I was thinking.

I liked 541. I thought he made good points about Eddie Cane and Axelrod possibly voteparking.

What is the gross chain of mislynch in 555?

[insanity018]

@ Lycanfire

Sure, I read it as S+S (128-130). Just looking at the call from TL onto Chamber and Chamber's immediate need to justify his work, only to be immediately shot down by Pine is suspect. We don't have the same Chamber with us after this exchange, in fact he will leave soon after.

>150 chamber says he isn't trying to get people to vote for eddie, while voting eddie. then why are you voting eddie?
>157 chamber hasn't properly metadived eddie... proceeds to explain how they have metadove eddie. comes to a conclusion that matches their vote, but refuses to be definite or like in 150, get people to vote eddie.

And smacked the brake pedal hard 12 hours after his post on Eddie and requested replacement.

I find this problematic that you are reading it as scum-scum.

Why would a scumbuddy interfere with another scumbuddy's push? Is it even fair to call chamber asking someone for meta a "push"?

On Roflcoptor

.

I really still dislike roflcoptor.

The way you phrased it feel like you're using rhetoric in a dishonest way. Like you're trying to get rofl to feel even better about his scum read there and in a way that leaves your hands clean.

I wasn't intending to make roflcoptor feel anything.

I actually dislike roflcoptor's reads progression and think there are inconsistencies in his play.

@roflcoptor, are you ignoring these questions?

@Roflcoptor

Can you answer this -

i don't like the tywin wagon

What is your read on Tywin?

Do you have a reason for your read on hito apart from a vague, unarticulated suspicion that he is scum with Axelrod?

I think Kison has asked similar questions.

Why are you appealing to Hito to reconsider Axel in 573? Weren't you thinking that Hito and Axel were scum together? Why has the Hito scumread suddenly disappeared?

[insanity018]

@Pine

Talk to me about Tywin. I never saw the SR on him, and Lycan looks fine to me.

What have you liked about Tywin's post? What did you think was fine about Lycanfire's post?

@MagnaofIllusion

I have noticed MagnaofIllusion's case on KMD which I will have a closer look at soon.

Axel and Insanity have slid down in general for the exact same reason … which I’m waiting to see how others address.

OldMan continues to be focused more on meta than scum-hunting. Again suspect for someone who “wanted privacy” to be free from meta themselves.

Why are you asking other players to explain your reads for you?

I'm curious about why you are still trying to argue that OldMan is scum, even though he may possibly be confirmed town tomorrow. Do you believe that he should be lynched today?

[insanity018]

Roflcoptor's post came afterwards and seemed to be sheeping the sentiment. Hito's post felt more genuine and original.

Well, I wouldn't have to keep repeating my lame questions if you answered the first time. Why do you think Tywin's town? What do you like about his posting?

[insanity018]

I will be here in the next couple of hours.

[insanity018]

p-edit: I fully agree with Tammy's response to roflcoptor.

I wasn't getting any scum-pings from Axel recently, but I will re-read Axel's ISO and look closer at the cases against him, especially Magna's

@Tammy, the game was Tit for Tat.

Why are you asking other players to explain your reads for you?

I'm curious about why you are still trying to argue that OldMan is scum, even though he may possibly be confirmed town tomorrow. Do you believe that he should be lynched today?

Um, in the context you quoted I'm not. I'm holding the specific mention of what I found scummy about your and Axel's play to see who else comments on it or agrees with it. Hito's already weighed in and I think his read on the situation is Towny.

Why shouldn't I be pointing out what I find to be scum play in him? Yes, I know his claim is that he will be cleared tomorrow. Until that point I'm proceeding with calling him out for scummy play. I know he isn't going to be lynched today. But I want my opinion well documented for the point where tomorrow comes and the real possibility that he's fake-claiming scum. Do you think that's bad play or scummy?

What do you think about the fact that he claimed I'm basically only tunneling him when it is clear as glass that I've got my sensors out looking for scum in mulitple places?

It felt like it. In particular, why the Axel slide at this point in time? From the posts between your last readslist it seemed that you were absolutely not seeing Axel as scum 387 and liking Tammy's townread of Axel 370.

Bad play. I agree that there are things that I dislike about Old Man - the making a meta case for why Pine is scum without looking at any town meta comes to mind. But unless you're saying he should be lynched today, it seems rather pointless.

I did think about possible scum-motivation - easy way to look busy, or distancing if you were buddies with Old Man and knew he would be lynched tomorrow. I don't think that is what is happening here though.

Rofl I get you solidly scum read Axel and are giving real effort to move votes there. But I don't see that happening at this juncture.So feel free to continue your push but anyone else you feel is worth a vote that you'd be willing to back as we get closer to deadline.

That's the second time I've seen you make this type of post. The other was to me about rofl earlier 296. Ironically, Axelrod wagon has now grown and you are on it.

Seeing that there is plenty of time until deadline, why does it bother you if people talk about scumreads that are not imminently likely to be lynched?

[insanity018]

This is what's bothering me about roflcoptor:

1) The way he has dealt with Tywin/Lycan slot

Rofl's first said this about Tywin's wagon.

i don't like the tywin wagon

He gets asked about what exactly his read on Tywin actually is, refuses to given an answer to this and after 13 days finally comes up with the explanation that he thinks Tywin is town because Tywin is always a obvious day 1 mislynch / is a Village Idiot? (632, 635). Well, if that's the reason why he thinks Tywin is town, how come he couldn't have just said that earlier? It seems to me that roflcoptor doesn't actually have any reason to townread Tywin.

Given how scummy I think Tywin/Lycanfire is, I think they could be scum together and roflcoptor is trying to dissuade the wagon on Tywin/Lycanfire and protect him, while not needing to commit to any real read of him.

Also, this total misrepresentation.

like seriously i really want to trust my tammy townread but ffs stop pushing what you basically just admitted is a village idiot lynch

"this guy always looks scummy perfect day one lynch amiright?"

Tammy's 623 basically states that although Tywin's style is generally scummy posting, she thinks Tywin's play here is different from her previous experiences with town him.

2) For all he talks about Axel voteparking, voteparking is a good way to describe how roflcoptor has been playing

Roflcoptor voted Axelrod in 69, thinking that Axelrod is likelier to be scum than other wagons at the time. Despite having Axel as a strongest scumread (143, 244), he doesn't attempt to actually engage with Axel or explain why Axel might be scum, before moving his vote to Old Man (170).

Later, roflcoptor votes Hito in 329. He doesn't explain the vote, and doesn't give any reasons beyond a previously articulated 'vague suspicion' that Hito and Axel are scum together (209). In this time, he talks about still wanting to lynch Axel (357). Later, roflcoptor suddenly goes back to voting for Axelrod (573) and appeals to Hito to vote Axel, the person he had just stopped voting and had thought was scum

with

Axel.

[insanity018]

Insanity

Why does it trouble you that I find 129+130 to be a S+S interaction? Yes, it's true that scum have no reason to stop a buddy's push, but the sheer fact of the matter is that Chamber left himself wide open with, IMO, an awful post 129 and Pine called him out way too early. I need to justify that somehow. If it were SvT, doesn't Pine run the risk of getting called by Chamber himself? This didn't happen- Chamber's rebuttal, 138 is

remarkably tame

. He had a chance of going with my approach, "why do you deny the utility of the responses I'd get to this/why are you interfering at all". Instead he drops him as a townread and projects that Pine is a

better player than he lets on

.

I despise demands like that. The burden of proof for meta demands is on the accuser.

1: this post is awful. You are no longer top town read (see, no credence).

2: You assume this is some backhanded attack against him. He has a better knowledge of his history than I do, if he can provide the counter example why wouldn't I want to see it?

Chamber then ran a slow churn of demotivation until he replaced out. That's indicative of somebody that wanted to play the game and had a teammate dick around to score lylo points.

I don't see this at all. What do you make of the fact that Pine has been very aggressive with chamber from the get go, with Pine's attacking chamber for the old man alt issue and then chamber's Eddie cane thoughts. Do you think scum-Pine came out and wanted to find fault with everything scum-chamber said? Do you think it is equally possible that town-chamber could replace out due to hostility?

Do you have any thoughts on Pine's play after this part of the day or Tammy's play since replacing in?

Sure: his interactions with Insanity are some kinds of awful. Insanity encourages TL's suspicion of Axel|Chamber|PJ in her post 112, and in 115 Axel begins to go hard on Chamber. Later, Insanity scrutinizes Axel in 113 which Hitogorishi points out in 124 saying the shade going Axel's way is best combined with a vote.

Yes, Hito did say that. Do you agree? What's your read of me?

[insanity018]

@Pine, what is 661 directed at?

And Ginnnnngie - You say that you have Lycan as town, but you also said that as scum he lets the game go by him even though he has plans for what to do. Does the fact that he hasn't posted for four days, even though he's been on site, sound anything like him just letting the game go by him or?

he make content

and given the amount of walls this game, I can understand it.

I'm judging based on what content he does make, not lack there of, or there being something to begin with.

What content do you believe Lycanfire has added to this game?

Insanity - Thanks. I found that game earlier. It's actually what reminded me of people who claim meta knowledge and an ability to read me but tunnel me when town. She didn't do that that game exactly but it was a pretty standard frustrating as hell feature of our games together for a while. I did do a skim of you in that game, you hadn't had a completed town game at the time, and this might be a weird kind of question but do you think there is a distinctive difference between your town and scum game? (I have not meta'd you, and that game was quite a long time ago, but humor me if you don't mind?)

I recently had a 2 year break from the site (and came back because geriatric games yay!) so most of my games are pretty old. I would say that as scum, I actively go after bad town and easy mislynches and make everything fit into a narrative for why they're scum. But as town, I actually think more about why people are doing/saying things.

[insanity018]

@Ginngie, Alright, I see what you mean about Lycanfire's style being different as scum in that game. Do you have any experience with him as town?

That's the second time I've seen you make this type of post. The other was to me about rofl earlier 296. Ironically, Axelrod wagon has now grown and you are on it.

Seeing that there is plenty of time until deadline,

why does it bother you if people talk about scumreads that are not imminently likely to be lynched?

Hmmm. This is bad. Are you purposefully trying to state a position that I’m not taking with the bolded? Because that’s actually the opposite of my stance. In fact in the very quote you are using I specifically told ROFL “feel free to continue your push”. Asking him for other reads is not telling him not to push on Axel.

In fact you seem to be the one bothered by talking about scumreads not in immediate peril given you questioned why I’m pointing out scummy play from OldMan.



--

Spoiler: Magna's posts

Then vote him and get some momentum to that wagon. Your Rofl suspicions are noted but that wagon isn’t going anywhere IMO.

Rofl I get you solidly scum read Axel and are giving real effort to move votes there. But I don't see that happening at this juncture.

So feel free to continue your push but anyone else you feel is worth a vote that you'd be willing to back as we get closer to deadline.

In the first, you ask me to stop pushing roflcoptor and vote KMD instead.

In the second, you impliedly want roflcoptor to talk about or move to other reads that may be backable to lynch closer to deadline.

This would suggest that you would rather people talk about or be on lynches that currently look more likely to happen.

You're annoyed that I may have misrepresented you, so why are you trying to misrepresent me? I've said that it's rather pointless to talk about why Old Man might be scum

since his claim makes him possibly confirmable tomorrow

. This is entirely separate to talking about scumreads that there is currently little appetite to lynch.

[insanity018]

@Ginngie, Alright, I see what you mean about Lycanfire's style being different as scum in that game. Do you have any experience with him as town?

yeah restrictive mafia
viewtopic.php?p=9149230&user_select%5B% ... 1#p9149230
He was town that game
The caveat to that data sample is mainly that it's bloody short.
The one thing you could still take away is that it does still show that he sticks to mafia alignment hunting questioning.
So yeah, still small sample of town game, but it still holds the water of what I'm trying to tell ya'll.

Yeah, extremely small given he only made 2 posts. I don't think that is lengthy enough to show that he 'sticks to mafia alignment hunting questioning'. The style of posts is also different to what he has done here.

Anyway. I'm still deciding whether I want to move to Axel. At this point I am leaning towards yes. I think he's one of the better lynches for the day & I am skeeved out by my company on the Lycan wagon.

Please elaborate? Who do you think is skeevy?

@Eddie Cane

, what's your read on Lycanfire?

@Magna

I apologise if you believe that I have purposefully misrepresented you. That was not my intention. That was the impression I got from reading your posts. Thanks for explaining your thought process.

Clearly, we have different views about how town or scum should respond to an IC Day 2 claim. I have talked about why pushing claimed tomorrow-IC today could potentially be scum-motivated. I haven't even tried to portray that you are scummy before.

I did think about possible scum-motivation - easy way to look busy, or distancing if you were buddies with Old Man and knew he would be lynched tomorrow. I don't think that is what is happening here though.

Do you disagree that this is possible scum motivation?

[insanity018]

I've re-read Axelrod. I'm not interested in lynching there.

In terms of the cases of vote parking, I don't love the fact that Axel has just had his vote on Pine for the whole time. That said, I'm not convinced of the case that it is scum-motivated. True, Axelrod hasn't been moving his vote around a lot, but he's still been engaging with other players and is continuing to scumread/push Pine. I think I can see Axel's reasoning process and how he is making certain conclusions.

Looking at Magna's case in 638, I really dislike the case. The main reasons Magna starts to scumread Axel are:

Now 346 is the first post where I’m seeing something that smells of scum here and that is some Cogdis between the following …

He's not saying he had any actual suspicion of Eddie at all (unless he is saying that Magna's joke vote was an actual reason)

but he left his vote there until #192

(which was well after the wagon went away, and anything that he might have "gotten" from it was done.)

Bolded for emphasis – he’s dinging KMD for not moving his vote from RVS (in effect) fast enough when he’s just recently been defending his own “vote-parking” as not scummy and something that is, for lack of a better term, a “fake-news scumtell”.

Also not a fan of 399. I can see Town wanting to know why I have a Pine Town read when he’s apparently Axel’s top scum candidate but the point about me “not talking about Pine” feels a bit dirty when Axel himself has had little to nothing to say about Pine for some time either.

Finally two more general points – on ISO re-read I don’t have the same strength of feeling that this is Town scum-hunting. There seems to my eye to be a disproportionate amount of posts that are “defense of self / others (like Firebringer)” as opposed to pushing scum suspects. And I’ve seen multiple cases of Axel saying “I need to read said person” that have never materialized.

That combined with his calling Firebringer effectively “too scummy to be scum” and I don’t feel back giving Rofl my vote right now.

VOTE: Axel

The point about Axel's scumread and cogdis of KMD seems misrepresentative. Axel says that KMD is scummy for leaving his vote on Eddie (without having suspicion of Eddie). This is different as Axel has maintained for a long time that he thinks Pine is scum.

On 399 - That was just a question Axel asked for Magna to explain a read, Axel didn't try to suggest that Magna was scummy for not talking about Pine. I can't see what would be "dirty" about this post.

How is calling Firebringer "too scummy to be scum" a justification for scumreading him.

Before making this post, Magna felt that there was no chance of Axel getting lynched today and had been generally following Tammy's townread of Axel. I don't think that the points identified by Magna can justify the read switch. This case has many holes in it at best and is misrepresentative at worst. I could see this case as an attempt to justify Magna changing his read on Axel to capitalise on the growing suspicion/momentum against Axel. So, Magna is now sliding back towards the scummy side for me.

--
Strongest townreads on: Tammy, Eddie Cane
Do not want to lynch: Axelrod

Most want to lynch: Lycanfire, roflcoptor
Could support lynching: Firebringer, Magna

[insanity018]

Sigh. I nearly decided to replace out because of some of the unnecessary hostility in this game.

This posts feels weird. You're making it sound like you're not one of the people who dislike Tywin and it feels like you're wanting to give Lycan an opportunity to defend himself.

What the actual fuck? In no way should this be a criticism and frankly I'm very bloody confused how you take issue with Fire for doing that.

My point was that Firebringer had expressed a scumread/dislike of Tywin. However, after Lycan replaced in, Firebringer speaks to him as though he was not someone who was scumreading the slot

Since I think Tywin/Lycanfire is scum, this felt like possibly scum trying to take pressure off their buddy and help their buddy get into the game.

I find this problematic that you are reading it as scum-scum.

Why would a scumbuddy interfere with another scumbuddy's push?

Maybe if you had a join date of today, this post would be excusable.

I'm just saying it's really inexcusable to go along with this line of thinking because you're holding this frankly odd premise that scum will only act a certain way and be bloody honest here. If this were true, this game would be super easy to play as town now wouldn't it?

Now what's fucking hilarious

is that is the last post you've made this game relevant to expressing your concerns about Lycan

you have no actual stated issues with Lycan, and what little you do, is of pathetic reasoning that belongs in the newbie queue.

Honestly given, the evidence brought to you given Lycan!town surmounting what little you have supporting Lycan!scum, your vote is unjustified and should immediately be revoked.

I don't appreciate you making this personal. My join date has nothing to do with anything.

My suspicion of the slot comes mostly from Tywin's posts. That his reads posts are superficial and show no genuine attempt at scumhunting (267, 300) And what reads he does have is based on massive over-simplifications and odd assumptions (300,328).

Lycanfire has not changed my read on that slot. His Chamber-Pine as scum/scum case feels like a conveniently made up story which doesn't consider a larger range of interactions and potential motivations, which I said here 683. This is the most recent time I've talked about my dislike for Lycanfire.

I've seen and addressed your town case for Lycanfire. I agreed with you that his play has been different from the scum-meta you gave (715). I've also stated that his play here has also been different from the town-meta you gave (752). He also didn't have many posts in that game to support your conclusion that only town-Lycan can stick to AI questioning.

[insanity018]

But this following bit needs pointed out immediately regarding Insanity. Look back at these last few posts where she suspects me and note the very important thing that is missing -

Insanity is voting Lycan and just put him in his most want to lynch list. So ostensibly he thinks Lycan is scum.

I’m voting Axel and my vote I think is the real reason that wagon got any momentum.

But is Insanity making the logical point that someone who sees a counter wagon forming to their scum read on someone they think is Town - that I could be scum pushing a counter to scum Lycan to save him?

Nope that reasonable Town perspective is nowhere to be seen. Instead there is a post slapped together attacking my review of Axels ISO.

Reeks of scum perspective and would happily lynch Insanity after these latest posts also.

I actually don't understand what you are getting at here.

Yes, I have suspected Tywin/Lycanfire for a long time.

As part of my re-read of Axel, I considered the various cases on Axel, including yours in 638. I found that I really disliked your case and entirely disagreed with the conclusions you made about those posts from Axel. That is what has lead to my present scumlean of you.

Of course you could be scum protecting Lycan-fire scum. But, why is it noteworthy that I don't see this possibility as most significant at this time?

I haven't had time to review Magna's 2 most recent posts yet, which I will aim to do later today.

Some posts back insanity linked to a previous geriatric game with scum flaking out and said Tywin felt similar. (I think it was insanity, sorry if wrong).

That was me for the link to the other geriatric, but I didn't link it to Tywin! That was 391 in relation to Morality flaking out without posting anything substantial which reminded me of the scum player(s) in that game.

[insanity018]

Honestly, I'm so tired of dealing with this game that I wouldn't even complain if you decided you wanted to flash lynch me.

I would vote Axelrod only if that was needed to avoid a no lynch. I still don't see the scum case on him. However, I did find Tammy's point in 811 about it being kinda dickish for Axel to be continuing to push Pine in the circumstances is interesting.

Still prefer or Roflcoptor (655) or Lycan (case summarised for Ginngie in 804. Also, the interactions chart is either wrong or I'm reading it wrong. There's no way I have interacted with Old Man more than rofl for example. There is a caveat to this - I'm finding Lycan's later posts and frustration increasingly relatable)

Various degrees of negativity on: Firebringer, Magna, Kison (early townread due to tone has done stale, finding it weird that he has switched to Axel and is scumreading me as I thought he had been having similar views as me in relation to roflcoptor's vagueness in relation to Tywin)

And this exact reaction doesn't dissuade me from my scum read on you. You aren't showing any level of connection to scum-hunting in your reasoning. It is as if you are looking for scum tells independently and aren't doing any sort of overall viewing of the game-state. I looks very much like someone not looking for scum but looking for points they can sell as scummy.

/shrug. It's Day 1 and I certainly believe that my scumhunting skills are good enough to call scumteams based on associatives. You haven't even been my focus for most of the day. Isn't that what I've been doing when talking about reads of Firebringer (589, 804) and roflcoptor (391, 605) and how they relate to my scumread of Tywin/Lycanfire?

ANY POSTS TALKING ABOUT AXELROD NOT RESPONDING TO CASES OR NOT PUTTING IN EFFORT AGAINST MOI OR ROFL IS DEADASS WRONG AND I'M ACTUALLY STARTING TO TAKE ISSUE WITH THE FACT THAT ROFL DECIDED TO LAUGH OFF AND INSULT AXEL FOR GETTING MAD THAT NO ONE WAS LOOKING INTO THE POINTS HE REFUTED

I really want to vote Rofl.

Insanity - Are you still suspicious of KMD?

He's probably next on my suspicious list after the players above.

The stuff that he's posting seems generally fine and there's nothing that jumps out as terribly bad. My previous concern about the fake emotional post is still there, but my concerns with his catchup style are not alignment indicative for him. That said, nothing in his posts really jumps out as town either.

Seems similar to your read of me ironically.

[insanity018]

Oops. EBWOP.

It's Day 1 and I certainly

don't

believe that my scumhunting skills are good enough to call scumteams based on associatives.

VOTE: Kmd

I'd still rather lynch rofl if there is interest but this is better than Axelrod.

cfd

What does this actually mean?

[insanity018]

Oh look a wagon.

insanity

Why? Only times you have had a problem with me is 755 and 761, which I responded to here 804. What do you think of what I said there?

vote: insanity

i concur but i'm also gonna need old man to back up his bluff from yesterday or die

It seems like your scumread of me is mostly because you think I'm scumbuddies / has strange interactions with Axel. Do you have other reasons for scumreading me? Why vote me instead of Axel today?

VOTE: insanity018

Happy to park my vote here for now.

Why? What exactly feels 'off' about me?

[insanity018]

VOTE: Kison

I am finding Kison most problematic at the moment. Of every player's posting in the game, I felt that Kison is the player that I should be most mind melding with. He hasn't posted a lot, but he seemed to have a strong focus on pressuring rofl in relation to the Tywin read/wagon 367 441 495 567 609. This is something that I have focused a lot on as well.

Now, roflcoptor has still not provided any meaningful explanation on anything to do with his read of Tywin. Yet, for Kison, this hasn't translated into a scumread of rofl. Later, Kison moves onto a wagon being cheerled by Rofl (Axel wagon) and implies he has no issues with rofl (776). Instead, Kison now finds me skeevy or off.

I don't think this thought process is town-motivated. I think Kison is just moving his vote/reads to where the popular wagon is.

--
I still think roflcoptor is scummy.

I still have a scumlean on Tywin/Lycanfire based on their posting. 747 834 835 are making me uncertain about whether they are actually scum as I found the posts felt very authentic tonally.

I have gut reasons for townreading Eddie Cane and Axelrod because they expressed a townread on me

very

early in the game. I think I'm one of the easier mislynches in this playerlist, so I think it would be less likely that scum would try to buddy me early in the game.

If Axel is scum, I think Pine looks really bad. I really don't like his move off Axel onto KMD, saying that he thought that there was no traction on Axel 890. I'm fairly sure there were more people preferring an Axelrod lynch to a Lycan lyncha at that point of the game.

[insanity018]

How would you rank your current scum reads, Insanity?

Strongest: You and rofl
Quite possibly scum: Lycanfire
Slight scumlean towards: Firebringer, Magna

Of every player's posting in the game, I felt that Kison is the player that I should be most mind melding with. He hasn't posted a lot, but he seemed to have a strong focus on pressuring rofl in relation to the Tywin read/wagon 367 441 495 567 609. This is something that I have focused a lot on as well.

Now, roflcoptor has still not provided any meaningful explanation on anything to do with his read of Tywin. Yet, for Kison, this hasn't translated into a scumread of rofl.

I actually wasn't pressuring Rofl. I've played with him before so I know he's very loose. Tywin was my best idea for scum on day 1. I wanted to see if he saw something that could change my mind. He didn't do a very good job.

I don't have much reason to suspect rofl is scum right now but I'm definitely paranoid he could be because I really don't want him to be.

Sure, it would make sense to ask rofl for an explanation once or twice to see if he could change your mind.

But after rofl is clearly not willing to give an explanation, why continue to keep asking for an explanation, if you didn't find rofl suspicious at all?

Where is that scum read on me Insanity?

You're not my focus. You're not one of my stronger reads.

[insanity018]

Not gonna lie - Both of the claims really threw me and I haven't figured out which I believe at this stage.

I agree that it is possible to have 1/2 gunsmith with 1/2 cop. It's probably a good setup for reducing swing in case one dies early.

And that Old Man was like "oops" had to be prodded. Like if I got a guilty result I'd be in here post haste and he's like salsa dancing over there in the corner while he knows damn well we're all sitting here waiting on his confirmation.

I found that I agreed with this from Tammy. But then Old Man's response in 1057 seemed plausible.

He has no hesitation to believe the claim of OldMan even when voicing reasons why it could be faked. He 100% believes the claim. Much more likely to come from scum who have no reason to doubt the guilty on them.

I thought this was an interesting point from Magna as well.

[insanity018]

Sure, it would make sense to ask rofl for an explanation once or twice to see if he could change your mind.

But after rofl is clearly not willing to give an explanation, why continue to keep asking for an explanation, if you didn't find rofl suspicious at all?

Meant to respond to this yesterday:

Rofl was basically not playing the game, so I kept asking. Once he started playing & still didn't answer is when I figured he was just vibing & had no tangible reason.

Why? Because I wanted an answer. For the reason I stated before. I'm not sure what's weird about this.

Did you expect that eventually rofl would give a sufficient answer?

If the rofl stuff isn't intended to put pressure, I now think that your ISO is concerning because of the lack of alignment-indicative questioning.

[insanity018]

Whether he is claiming it because he has a guilty, or because he or a teammate has an odd-night rolecop I don't know, but at this point my role should be public knowledge because scum should (or will) know my role one way or another.I suggest we breathe right now and not derphammer OM.

What is currently your read of Old Man? This post above states both town and scum possibilities.

What do you make of Old Man continuing to push for your lynch after your claim?

[insanity018]

What is currently your read of Old Man? This post above states both town and scum possibilities.

What do you make of Old Man continuing to push for your lynch after your claim?

I think OM is town but I'm feeling torn on whether wanting to lynch me is scummier than not wanting to lynch me. For instance, if OM is scum could he simply push me and have his teammates counter the push? After all, he already got out of the IC dilemma. There is something to be said for wanting the lynch itself, like what I noted with Kison. I don't view my lynch as compulsory to proceed, but I can see both scum!with OM and scum!not with OM wanting me dead regardless-it's free-and also could explain away any night kill questions.

Basically I'm trying to determine which narrative is the scum narrative. If OM is scum, he isn't alone. The people wanting to lynch in the claims {Eddie, Kison, Axel} are doubly suspect IMO.

What exactly do you mean by your lynch would 'explain away any night kill actions'?

--

Magna

Is doing the exact same thing he is doing yesterday. Picking and choosing that posts that suits his point of view and ignoring anything else.

@Magna, in that post you linked as "active lurking", I literally stated that I currently don't know which claims I believe.

[insanity018]

Sorry for late post. Been celebrating good stuff in RL!

@Eddie, sorry, but I'm still not following your maths argument. Isn't the question more to do with 'how likely is it that this setup has an odd-night gunsmith and an even-night copy'? Which is answered more to do with setup speculation and considering the two players, rather the maths itself.

You seemed a bit reluctant to scumread Lycan towards the end of Day 1. 771 and 783, for example. What changed your mind overnight so that you now believe Lycanfire is scum (even before the claims?)

MoI, saying Insanity isn't lynchabity is horse shit. Doesn't make them town here necessarily but in general their descriptor as a player is lurky lynchbait with good reads. I don't think your points are bad, but be careful as you're treading on the line of pushing playstyle. I have not played with insanity so I'm not a good person to ask - this is ffery meta.

I'm actually really flattered that ffery thinks I have good reads

--

Magna's 1150 about me feels like retrospectively finding problems with my posts in order to justify his read. It reminds me a lot of his case on Axelrod back on Day 1, where I felt he was nit picking to find posts that supported his new conclusion of Axelrod-scum. So, the scumread on Magna is growing again.

I'm not going to do a line by line breakdown of that post, but can respond to stuff if anyone else wants me to.

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Kind of given up on the belief that roflcoptor will ever actually answer questions but who knows.

@Roflcoptor

vote: insanity

i concur but i'm also gonna need old man to back up his bluff from yesterday or die

It seems like your scumread of me is mostly because you think I'm scumbuddies / has strange interactions with Axel. Do you have other reasons for scumreading me? Why vote me instead of Axel today?

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Insanity: Why should I not vote you again & who should I go after instead? Is the MoI / Rofl dream team a lie? Are they scum running a mislynch train on you? Come on, instill a want in me.

You're free to vote whoever you like. But first, well, why

do

you want to vote for me? An answer that isn't along the lines of 'because I agree with Magna' or 'tone' would be greatly appreciated.

I could easily Magna and Rofl as scum together.

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I don't really like Old Man's borrowing the maths argument. 1167

[insanity018]

@Mod, please replace me

For various reasons, I feel completely unmotivated to keep playing this game and have decided to quit playing mafia (again).

[insanity018]

Bye Insanity

and fire bringer but I wasnt' around when he replaced out to say bye.

Also, I almost made that same exact post this morning :/

I just wanted to say that even though you scumread me, I enjoyed the way you post and playing with you.

If I return to this site in the future, I wouldn't mind playing with you again