Weather Mafia II (GAME OVER)

[Amrun]

Oh shit I forgot to bookmark the new thread. Read these (thankfully few) pages tomorrow!!

Looked at the flips and I think it's interesting that snifit is a cyborg; would that qualify as organic or inorganic? He didn't have either qualifier (and neither does my role).

It's interesting because yesterday, kuribo claimed to be human and therefore organic. I think that's probably the case, whatever his alignment. Kuribo, do you have an organic qualifier?

Is anyone else's character something that is organic and town?

[Amrun]

Unvote vote Yos2

In old mini's 8-2-2 was balanced. 16-2-2

Oh, Fate, fucking bite me. I wish you would just prove your towniness so that I can ignore you for the rest of the game.

Read the fucking game. You can't seriously expect anyone to take you seriously when you're suggesting that I'm BLUE SCUM. I could maybe understand pushing me as red scum, even though that's also stupid, but BLUE SCUM? BLUE SCUM? Ha.

Tierce is re-creating history and I don't like it. I still don't like her flip flop and it makes me wary, but bb's scum flip makes me okay with leaving that alone for awhile and observing.

Nuwen is probably not bluescum/Staeg. I don't see anyone stepping out for a buddy like that and being sooo wrong. Nuwen was against lynching BB and very vocal even when the bb ship had obviously sailed. A buddy would be more likely to do damage control at that point.

I had a townread on farside, but I'm not getting one from Shadoweh so far. The clarifying/fishing question was bad, but "bad" =/= scum or town, necessarily.

Singer I had a scumread on yesterday, but it's decreased today. I liked how she questioned "Why Nuwen and not me?" It doesn't seem scum motivated to ask why there isn't more attention on her when there's already a wagon going on her. That seemed genuine.

Yos is still as town as ever. Benmage, you voting him because you disagree with him about balance pissed me off and was the dumbest thing posted so far.

Kuribo is striking me as off off off. He's not really saying anything overtly scummy, but it's just so ... UNKURIBO-LIKE. What gives?

VOTE: kuribo

[Amrun]

War in Heaven just finished in which you crossbussed with Magua which was so unlikely and unviable a move for scum that people had Magua pegged as town for a long fucking time. You're reaching, no BEGGING for your BBM bus to get the same credit

Uh, no it did not... It got abandoned. That game would have gone on for several more months had the crash not happened. That logic is fucking terrible.

You don't even know who did and did not try to start a counterwagon, so don't pretend to have a grasp of this game.

I haven't made up my mind on you yet, no, and that's fine with me. I don't have an opinion on everyone in a game this large so early, and that doesn't bother me.

[Amrun]

DGB: Why is this typical kuribo? It's unlike the kuribo I've played with.

Benmage shot Reck from scumteam red in the face early on day 1, right at at time when Reck was doing backflips to try to get BBmolla lynched; and then helped lynch scumteam-blue BBMolla at a key point at the end of the day, putting him at 7 votes to UT's 5 votes when Benmange could have put them at a 6 and 6 tie instead. Benmage is very unlikely to be scum with either scum group at this point.

Anyone seriously thinking Yos2 is scum at this point needs to be shot in the head. Also, to singer: Well, yes, Benmage has been known to bus, but I think the evidence points strongly to his being town in this case.

Tierce is re-creating history and I don't like it. I still don't like her flip flop and it makes me wary, but bb's scum flip makes me okay with leaving that alone for awhile and observing.

Oh come on. For pity's sake. Even if you are scum, you can certainly do a better job at smearing me than this. How am I 're-creating history'? How did I flip flop on a read? Are you aware that BBmolla pretty much faked townmeta

for me and me alone

, and that was why his meta sounded forced to me (because it was a a deliberate collage of our towngames together, ignoring his other towngames)? You spent D1 calling posts 'fake as hell', including my interaction with BBmolla. You've been proven wrong on that, so how about you get down from your high horse?

Stop this soft suspicion bullshit and be upfront about your read on me.

You're re-creating history with all this stuff with BBmolla. It's arrogant and silly to assume that he catered his entire game to you; I see no evidence of that in-game and you failed to prove it before the crash. Stating it as fact now doesn't make it true. And "what flip flop" indeed? That's a prime example. That's the main thing I criticized you for yesterday. "This is mollatown! This is mollatown!" <wagon forms> "OH NOES IT'S MOLLASCUM!" You love to conveniently ignore the fact that you defended him for a long time based on meta and then randomly decided to change your tune. This turn around did NOT read organic to me then and it will never read organic to me. The only thing that changed was the wagon momentum. This alone reads as very scummy to me; however, later, when the bbmolla wagon began to falter, you stuck to your guns, so you get minor townpoints for that. I have not been unclear about this at all. And, for the record,

I started the BBmolla wagon and pushed him until the cows came home, so how was I proven wrong about anything whatsoever?

I was, in fact, proven very right.

War in Heaven just finished in which you crossbussed with Magua which was so unlikely and unviable a move for scum that people had Magua pegged as town for a long fucking time. You're reaching, no BEGGING for your BBM bus to get the same credit

Uh, no it did not... It got abandoned. That game would have gone on for several more months had the crash not happened. That logic is fucking terrible.

You don't even know who did and did not try to start a counterwagon, so don't pretend to have a grasp of this game.

I haven't made up my mind on you yet, no, and that's fine with me. I don't have an opinion on everyone in a game this large so early, and that doesn't bother me.

And what has the fact that WiHIII was 'abandoned' instead of 'finished' influence Fate's statement of what happened with you and Magua? Why is Fate's logic "fucking terrible"?

Do you even comprehend what he said? Fate's arguing that I started a wagon on BBmolla in this game because my suspicion of Magua in another game, which wasn't slated to end for MONTHS, would start a wifom game. He's saying I was trying to manipulate my meta, but it's a terrible comparison in any case. What he's saying doesn't make sense.

[Amrun]

I was pretty confident Amrun was obvtown even before she played such a big role in driving the BB-wagon all the way to a lynch. No way we're lynching her today.

That's funny I remember you spending most of Day 1 saying how scummy she was for joking that she was scum; to the tune of nearly ignoring most everyone else in the game.

Funny how you don't seem to remember that little detail.

We both thought each other was scum early on in Day 1; both of our opinions changed. If you re-read day 1, Yosarian was right and I don't know why you would undermine him for making an obviously supportable statement.

Do you have two votes today?

[Amrun]

Blegh, I know I can't but that doesn't mean I get to ignore my feelings. Also, I did eventually realize you were scum and convinced the rest etc. And in red dead I didn't exactly give a rip about you alignment-wise, which is not exactly a townread. And those games give me experience so naturally I will get better at reading you.

But the warning thing I did forget about. Blegh.

I'MMA STICK TO MY GUNS

I don't think your claim of being human jives with what I know of the game.

[Amrun]

Uh, both of the scum flipped human...

[Amrun]

sweetie, if you want a full fucking claim, just pucker up and ask

I already breadcrumbed it in twilight anyway

I don't at all want that. People are so fucking dense.

[Amrun]

These 9 pages aren't bad at all, Poro.

And I have you beat. St. Paddy's is my birthday. :3

[Amrun]

You say you don't care how much I tried to get BB lynched, and then go, "but she said she did!" I DID ride the wagon hard - from start to finish - took crap for it on SEVERAL different occasions (good job totally ignoring the wagons on me that sprouted up mostly as a result of my bb pushes, good job there), and I stated varied reasons why he was scum. My initial vote for him was weak reasons + gut, but his reactions to the wagon, and my reactions to that, showed pretty organically why I rightly believed him to be scum.

This is a prime example of that "re-creating history" thing I was talking about. You're talking totally out of your ass. None of the things you've asserted have been true, for example calling me a lurker when I was probably the singularly most active player of Day 1 and had a metric fuckton of posts. As for BBmolla tailoring his play to you: I still don't see it, and if you claim that it wouldn't be obvious to anyone but you, why are you using that as if it should be a commonly understood fact that makes you town? How ridiculous.

[Amrun]

I'm just plain not going to do that. It isn't relevant and it isn't important and it's a waste of my life. When I originally started the wagon, I took criticism; there were small jabs throughout. I was a viable counterwagon at at LEAST one point. What does my reaction to UT/Nuwen etc. have anything to do with the price of tea in China? I said a ton of things to and about BBmolla. He had many different posts that I did not like. I recall one in particular that made me go KILL IT WITH FIRE but I forget what it said.

As for being the most active player, I don't really care. I was definitely the most active player earlier on, but I had some v/la throughout the day so naturally my post count wouldn't be the highest. My point is that I've been a presence in the game consistently and been an important factor in most, if not all, of the significant wagons. Much of the discussion of the day revolved around me and my actions. In NO way, shape, or form do I qualify as a lurker and you're just mudslinging and hoping people will be too lazy to check.

Okay, fine, not bluescum instead of town - but the point is that you admitted that I wouldn't know because only you would know, and then act as if it should be commonly understood fact. To be perfectly honest, I do not want to be bogged down with stupid, inane crape about BB's meta, since I will never (and now, can never) check that meta for myself. It's so amazingly not important and I think you're smart enough to know that. Drowning the game with noise serves only scum.

I'm not even interested in lynching you today, or possibly ever, and agreed that you have a decreased chance of being bluescum. The points you are challenging me on are wrong, and so inane that I'm pretty sure nobody in the world cares. It's surely possibly that BB was tailoring his meta to you, but I do not give a flying french tit. BBmolla is dead scum. I care about how you've portrayed it and your very strange actions and reactions surrounding it marginally more, but even then, not really that much. Jesus shit. Stop the noise.

[Amrun]

Your request is more reasonable, singer, and I may do that, (and would have done so just now if it wasn't the biggest pain in the ass in the world due to cache, downloads, etc). That's not what Tierce was asking for. Still, I think it's a pretty pointless thing to ask for and realistically speaking I'm swamped this week and probably won't even bother to download the files until thins lighten up a bit for me.

Your claim that the wagon formed because of Tierce is FALSE; she argued forever that he was soooooooooooooo definitely for sure town, and then once the wagon gained a little momentum, she changed her mind. That's not relevant anyway. I started the wagon and continued to push it for the remainder of the day; that is just a pure, basic fact. I am not the sole reason BBmolla was lynched and I never claimed to be.

kuribo, I never asked for your role and I don't want to know it. I want to figure out the organic mechanic, to which you are relevant only because you claimed human. I don't want or need any further information than what I already asked, which was if it said "organic" next to your name. I never asked anything else so let's stop pretending I did.

p-edit: I interpreted one of your earlier posts as calling me a lurker (and I remember the phrase lurkscum). If it wasn't referring to this game, then I misinterpreted.

Calling your points inane is my opinion and not a smear at all. I'm not sure you know what the phrase "smear campaign" is supposed to mean, to be honest.

[Amrun]

I am in a bit of a bitch mood, so I apologize for the recent snippiness and assure that it is not directed at anyone in particular. I'm just like ... TOO MUCH TO FUCKIN DO.

[Amrun]

Tierce, I am technologically retarded and have NO IDEA how to quote from that thing. It's a very nice resource and I'm grateful that you made it, but it's patently useless for quoting. What's more, I DON'T CARE. There's nothing I really care to prove because I don't think I've said anything that isn't just basic truth and general knowledge. Without issues, I would quote, but I am not going to spend 73 hours figuring out how to do something that I don't see the point in doing. I spent most of the day interacting with/around BBmolla. Just because I didn't make a pretty post that says, "HERE IS MY CASE ON BBMOLLA" doesn't mean a damn thing. That's not how scumhunting happens. I really think this entire tangent is 100% irrelevant.

I'm obviously - OBVIOUSLY - not blue scum. If you don't see that ... I don't actually give a rat's ass.

In more interesting news, I've changed my mind and Shadoweh gets to be town. Yay!

Staeg is also town because Nuwen was town. Staeg has a scummy playstyle in general, in my experience.

[Amrun]

I was almost lynched for it, so you should probably read a bit more closely.

Once again, it's really NOT important.

[Amrun]

Yosarian, why do you express what I wanted to say better than I could say it?

[Amrun]

Slight difference, though: my initial reasons for voting bbmolla were insignificant by the end of the day. Reasoning evolved throughout the day as events unfolded and bb reacted to things. But overall, yes.

[Amrun]

Uh, who deleted Tierce's post? I know it was from a wrong game, but what just happened?

[Amrun]

No worries.

[Amrun]

Amrun, have you figured out what is "off" about kuribo yet?

This sort of side sniping is just ... it's bad.

What is "off" about kuribo is the same thing he says is "off" about me, and I said as much when I voted for him. He's being un-kuribo-like, in my opinion. I don't like that he's claimed organic as well. Up until now, his pushes haven't impressed me, which is not how it usually goes when I play with kuribo.

However, I am now less sure. I had forgotten he had been warned before, which does affect my opinion, and Shadoweh has now claimed organic as well and I think Shadoweh is town, or at least townish. I also don't really hate his push on me. It's not the best; it's uninformed and it's based in all sorts of really terrible logic and is ultimately wrong, but from my past experience with kuribo, it doesn't feel fake.

Question for kuribo: If you don't think my vote on you is "looking for an easy mislynch," how do you reconcile that with me supposedly being scum?

You, on the other hand, are not a full double voter, and I have learned my lesson in other games about giving certain roles town-passes. It's not at all outlandish for an occasional double voter to be scum. (Note: does anyone know if weather conditions are randomized, or if some can't happen during lylo, etc?)

I haven't found any of your analysis this game worth reading and I know you're definitely capable of better. Your push on Yos is particularly terrible.

I'm also a little weirded out about how you're dancing around me - do you think I am scum, or not? If so, why aren't you simply voting for me?

I have TOO MANY TOWNREADS syndrome right now, and you are decidedly not in that category. Your day 1 pass has expired.

VOTE: UN

[Amrun]

^lol can we kill this yet.

"Vote: UN because a double voter COULD be scum"

"ohhey lemme ask about weather conditions"

"ohhey let's watch fate ignore everything that doesn't fit his narrow view of the world and snip posts so that they say the things he wants"


Kuribo, about Yos: it wasn't that I thought Benmage was town, it was that I didn't understand why Yos wouldn't vote Benmage after the comment he made.

Also I DON'T think Tierce was bussing BBM.

I think you realized the things you pointed about BBM are wrong or misleading, judging by the rest of the post.

[Amrun]

I'm going to ask Glork. Idk if he'll answer but I'll report back!

[Amrun]

mod: Question: Is the change in weather gradual (sunny>cloudy>snow>blizzard) or is it like Michigan, where the weather can suddenly go from sunny to blizzard?
Another question: When in Blizzard and Foggy conditions, identities of those killed are not revealed. does this apply to Day Phase as well (as in, we won't know the role of the person we lynch)?

1) The changes in weather may or may not be drastic. The one thing I will say is that I have preset the weather conditions for nine full day/night cycles for balance purposes. Weather patterns are not randomly determined in any way.

2) This applies to all forms of death; you will not know the role/identity/alignment of a player lynched under Blizzard or Foggy conditions.

Double voter on day 1 is no reason at all that UN can't be scum. I am satisfied with this. It's no reason to think he IS scum, of course, but it's no reason to think he's not. I think he's scum for other reasons.

[Amrun]

I haven't done any side sniping. I gave my reasons for suspecting kuribo when I voted him.

Why do you think Staeg is scum, and Nuwen? Whatever happened to your push on Yosarian?

[Amrun]

Even if you were correct, that's not all I said about kuribo, so you'd still be wrong. In other news, though, there are tons of gut players on this site that prove you wrong.

[Amrun]

And I meant, you said you were interested in lynching Staeg mostly, but didn't mention Yosarian, which seemed strange to me.

[Amrun]

Sorry for the triple post, but let me get this straight - me saying "something is off about kuribo" is scummy but you saying "Nuwen was shifty in a way that I can't describe and Staeg is scummy" is not?! Holy hypocrite batman.

[Amrun]

I always provide cases if I have one, but honestly, sometimes there's no case. Someone just IS scummy. BBmolla for example - he was scummy to me, and I found some reasons, but for the most part, I sort of invented a reason to vote him at first. My original reasoning was weak, and I knew that, but I was going with my gut. His responses to that solidified my feelings.

However, later in the game, I usually can construct very sound arguments for why someone is or is not scum. Sometimes, I can do this early, even on day 1, but it's more common later in the game. If tigers hadn't eaten it, I'd direct you to zoraster's Pet mafia, in which I had no truly convincing reason to suspect VP Baltar on Days 1 and beyond, but kept pressuring him throughout the game, and then finally, on a late day (lylo or similar), I absolutely nailed him with a case that was quite convincing, and with other flips and bearing out of gamestates, I could put words to my earlier suspicions. His scumflip was one of the most gratifying things I've ever seen. I babbled to my boyfriend about it forever and he had absolutely no clue what I was talking about and I didn't care.

My point is that when there's a case, that's great, but there isn't always, and I don't have a problem with that.

[Amrun]

Why don't you have an idea of your own, shadoweh?

[Amrun]

Remind me why we aren't lynching UberNinja. Something about role, right?

NO! We can lynch uber! Join me!

Day 1 only double voter doesn't mean shit.

[Amrun]

Also, I think the reason we're not lynching UN is that his total activity level is not something I would expect from scum. Sure, scum can fake activity, they can be very active. But he seems to be actively bringing attention to himself. I just don't see many scum motivations for that. Also, since amrun is far from being in the townie column of my book, I'm pretty sure I'm not gunna just take her word on it.

First, DGB isn't necessarily saying scum are more likely to replace out in overall replacements; she's saying a slot with 4 replacements is more likely to be scum. I think she's right in that, statistically, but not right in Staeg being scum.

And I modded UN's newbie in which he was scum and he was the most active poster.

[Amrun]

Hmm, I guess, but the relevant thing here is that heavily replaced slots tend to be scum. I agree with that and it's been my experience as well.

[Amrun]

That's because it is in my favor.

Scum wouldn't be modifying their claims, they'd make sure to get it right the first time. Conversely, a townie would have no reason to fear doing it.

I clarified that

they made a mistake

in the interest of transparency and honesty.

Emphasis mine.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is a scumclaim. "They" shows the role was discussed in a scumteam QT.

This is a good catch. I caught this, as well, and was going to post about it before I saw this.

I'm glad my vote is already here as we should lynch post-haste. I have no idea how else this post could be interpreted.

[Amrun]

TSQ, what of his actions concerning bbm?

[Amrun]

He pretty systematically refused to vote for bbm (scum), but didn't ever raise a proper defense of him. Tierce quoted some actual examples. UN says he had a townread on BBM.

[Amrun]

For me? Mostly gut, which isn't convincing, and a general history of bad pushes. All of his suspects are bad, and his reasons are bad, and I know he's capable of better. My gut says it's scum badpushing rather than town badpushing. In particular, I dislike his pushes on Staeg (he's totally sheeping, and poorly) and his push on Yosarian, who is obvtown to me. He doesn't seem to really believe either of them are scum and is pushing them perfunctorily.

[Amrun]

DrippingGoofball is town.

Welp, thanks for being clear, singer!!


As for other interactions... Yos, Benmage, Shadoweh very unlikely to be redscum.

Fate and kuribo were the most vocal to defend Katsuki based on meta. Fate's wording was a little more forceful than kuribo's, and therefore less likely to be a buddy defense, I think.

Fate said things like, "Katsuki is TOWN!" and kuribo said things like "people are voting Katsuki to avoid the Amrun wagon" and "this is not consistent with Katsuki's scum meta," which is not the same thing at all.

VOTE: kuribo

p-edit: Oh, Katsuki is actually blue scum. That explains a lot about which counterwagons were pushed yesterday. Yurp.

[Amrun]

As for other interactions... Yos, Benmage, Shadoweh very unlikely to be redscum.

Actually:

Vote Count 1.5
Yosarian2 4 (

Katsuki

, Fate,

BBmolla

, Shadoweh)

Yosarian, Fate are not bluescum. Shadoweh is

very

unlikely bluescum too.

I actually meant bluescum there but I wrote it before the flip amendment. (Hence the p-edit.)

[Amrun]

It's actually far more likely that kuribo IS redscum. I still really hate that "secret scumtell" "LOL JK" from Reck about kuribo.

[Amrun]

I never said I didn't remember day 1. I just said I wasn't going to back and quote 10,000 things from it that I didn't think were remotely necessary or helpful when there were no quote buttons and I had no time. I remember it pretty well. I don't know what made you think otherwise.

As for the Reck comment, it does confuse me. On one hand, the immediate reaction is too go "too risky for scumbuddies in multiscum" -- but on the other hand, it was clearly part of some sort of longer game. Reck is RARELY lynched or killed as scum, so why would he expected to dayvigged? My question is: what was his longer game? Was it to mislynch you, mitigate you as a threat, OR ... to distance?

I don't think you being bluescum is out of the question, as noted earlier today. But I don't think you being redscum is, either, and I find you scummy. So I don't really care which team you're on.

[Amrun]

I think my possibilities included the possibilities you listed above, but it's not important.

What I'm saying is I can easily see Reck going for the "so obvious there's no way reck-scum would do that" since I've seen him do it before. in his long game, he could move his position to one more sensical, but if one of you ever flipped, everyone would look at that and go, "Not scumbuddies." It was a deliberate move that struck me at the time and that I couldn't figure out, and I still can't. I'll never know for sure why he did it, but it hasn't left my mind.

[Amrun]

Presumably because Nuwen defended BBmolla, but I don't see scum-Nuwen doing that.

[Amrun]

Presumably because Nuwen defended BBmolla, but I don't see scum-Nuwen doing that.

Except this is multiball.

She wasn't necessarily defending a scumbuddy. I've seen Nuwen defending scum and town

as scum

.

You are not this dense.

I know it's multiball. I'm not stupid.

But what she did was BEYOND defense. It was really put-your-life-on-the-line. It would be really stupid for scum to do that and paint a target on his or her back.

Even when it was clear BBmolla was the lynch, she kept on and on. If she was his scumbuddy, she would KNOW he would flip scum.

I'll eat my own hat if Nuwen is scum with BBmolla. Staeg COULD be redscum, I suppose, but I reallyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy do NOT think he is bluescum. Nuwen is far too good to make such a clumsy move.

[Amrun]

I am not particularly familiar with Nuwen's play, it's true. I never claimed to be. We played together for awhile in Mr. Flay's recent game, though.

The move WAS calculated, but I don't think it was calculated by scum (or at least blue scum). In other words, it would be a clumsy move for scum to make, and the only scum that would make it was one that was very ballsy and enjoyed risks. Even then, I think scum could have damage controlled a LOT better while still achieving overall objectives. I considered it and rejected it. You can disagree, and if you make your case well rather than just disagreeing with me, I'll consider your evidence.

Can you show me how she buddied Yos, because I don't remember that at all. She tried to lynch me, for example, and I'm his biggest town read. That's not a usual "buddying" action.

[Amrun]

Have you seen Nuwen defending people as town? That seems a more likely scenario. And where have you seen this?

I just don't see Nuwen going that far as any type of scum, though redscum isn't totally out of the question. Staeg is ... well, Staeg. He's low hanging fruit. I don't have much experience reading him, but I've seen him play similarly as both town and scum. My read is based off of Nuwen's play.

Staeg seems to be distracting people, and there's an outside chance he flips redscum, so I guess his lynch isn't terrible. I vastly prefer a kuribo lynch, though, hence my vote.

[Amrun]

Oh, and the reason I asked Fate to substantiate his claim is because I blatantly disagree. I gave my evidence for disagreeing, and I want to see Fate back his up.

[Amrun]

Amrun, you do realize, of course, that your argument is entirely wifom. If you're justifying something by saying "I just dont see X doing something as scum." you are, right there, creating the powerful motivation for scum players to do exactly what you are claiming they wouldn't do. Plus there is added motivation because they get to get townie points for doing something that is already in their interests in defending a buddy. Please think about what you're arguing here.

Yeah, so what? I'm not trying to convince anyone, just stating my opinion. Opinions are sometimes influenced by wifom. Too bad so sad.

[Amrun]

Nuwen wasn't buddying Yosarian because she was trying to get one of his town reads lynched? Youu really ARENT that dense.

That's a disagreement of reads, which any alignments can have. Where she was BUDDYING Yosarian is when, and this happened DIRECTLY after I replaced in and derped around. She chainsaswed (one of the better ways to buddy: attack people calling your target scum. It has more finesse than just sucking someones cock and calling them obvtown) IMMEDIATELY and called Yosarian's wagon "full of scum" and tried to paint it like there were all scum on Yos' wagon.


And now that Katuski's flipped you see she was effectively setting herself up for credit on a Katsuki flip which would also put her highly in Yosarian's eyes (Yos also being one to call Katsuki scum for awhile). Now Nuwen WOULD powerbus Katsuki the second she got the chance, I know that she hates his useless herpderp meta with a passion.

I might load up the cache later and get direct quotes, but I doubt that its contention. Anyone thats not scum (Amrun) and read even half of Nuwen's ISO D1 knows she was way up Yos' ass.

Also she was replaced by the more easily read Staeg who has played the "OH NO WHATS GOIN ONNNNNN" card, tried to get the obvtown DV lynched, thinks Tierce is scum, etc.

Staeg also hasn't dropped his 100% towntell that I have on him and probably won't share. It'd be more obvious to others but most of the Staeg/Fate games got lost in the crash.

Okay, I get where you're coming from, and concede your greater experience with Nuwen.

It doesn't really change my gut read that Nuwen was town, but I get what you're saying.

p-edit: WIFOM isn't a logical fallacy. Bzzt try again.

[Amrun]

Fate may veeeery well be scum.
I have no idea where people are getting their townreads on DGB (who replaced effing BB).
And I'm Stephen Fry, town villager.

OKAY this post is honestly really fucking bad.

Nice going, Staeg.

You make defending you really difficult, and now I'm doubting myself.

[Amrun]

I don't really give a shit what you think I sound like. One of the biggest problems with mafia is that people are always so concerned with how they sound and not with how they actually think.

[Amrun]

What does that have to do with anything? I can think something sounds fake and still not care what you think. I don't see how that's a contradiction.

[Amrun]

Uh, how did I insult you?

I didn't insult you at all... Not even close.

I don't know why you are so confrontational.

[Amrun]

Confrontational? I'm explaining how your behavior is anti-teamwork, because you dismiss what people you call town say.

You often insult the intelligence of people you call town without explaining what exactly is wrong with their views. FATE and KURIBO may rage, but they show what's wrong and know how to work with someone.

Uh, it's NOT anti-teamwork, and what do you EXPECT me to do, go "Oh, Tierce, you're right! That post was fake!"

That post was 100% genuine, and I know because I POSTED IT.

I haven't insulted your, or anyone else's, intelligence at all. That's what I mean by confrontational. You're making things up.

[Amrun]

Eh, I think Fate's town here. Multi-scum throws things off a bit. If it weren't multi-scum, I would think Fate was town almost without question. I think some of his scumhunting has been genuine.

On the other hand, he prides himself on reading me and has done an abysmal job in this game. He picked me as a target before he read the game and then just kind of stuck with it and made me "fit" in his view as scum, even though he kind of sheeped me onto kuribo. That doesn't feel very genuine.

I'm a little conflicted, but overall, I do lean town on him.

[Amrun]

Kuribo.... is exactly right.

I don't think I've ever heard this said before...

On a serious note, does anyone have a good handle on fate this game? I find him consistently hard to read and this OMG PUSH PUSH PUSH thing seems consistent with him both town and scum. Anyone have any insight?

By the way, the promises that you'll catch up are getting a little stale. This is akin to a prod dodge.


My top three are

kuribo

,

Porochaz

, and

TSQ

.

The prod dodges are getting really old from TSQ and I've seen him posting about how he "usually" focuses in too much detail when he plays... Is that because he's "usually" town?

He was also too sure on D1 that it was multiscum.

He is very unlikely to be bluescum, though.

[Amrun]

Well, that's a good question... I thought UberNinja was blue scum, but he clearly wasn't.

I think Porochaz is a decent candidate for blue scum.

kuribo COULD be bluescum but is more likely redscum.

[Amrun]

I don't really care whether you consider bluePoro or not right at this moment. You're not in charge of this town.

I don't care what color scum we lynch in any case so long as it's scum.

[Amrun]

The thing that makes me think Poro might be bluescum is the same thing that you insist means he is not.

Let's review:

Poro - Initial posting looked good, but then he followed it up with some active filler jokes and provided no further reads. He later votes Uber commenting that the quality of his posts were "crap," but I don't really think this is true scumhunting, it looks more like him trying to appear to be doing something.

He's kind of scummy, but there's something telling me that he might be town, so null on him for now.

Tierce - I'm conflicted. She seemed scummy at first, then for a while she seemed town, but the bullshit she's pulled to push my lynch through un-nerves the crap out of me. She is completely ignoring the context of the meta, acting like I'd play exactly the same in a 13p as a 20p(Protip: I don't.) She's completely ignoring the fact that I'm playing to my town meta, instead opting to say "Oh yeah he's totally faking his town meta." Herp. My read on her is unfortunately going to be affected by my frustration in her terrible cases against me. I'll put her as misguided town for now, but I may change my mind at a later point in time.

What the hell are these.

If BBmolla flips scum, Poro is town. BBscum knows exactly what he is doing here with that read on Poro, which is to get me to call SCUMBUDDY READ:

In post 628 in Newbie #1185, BBmolla wrote:

In post 616, Tierce wrote:BB, why Post 415? That one has been gnawing at me.


Read the Vijay read. Scum always have a hard time placing their partner somewhere, and the "I donno, he's kinda scummy, but he makes sense, I donno" read kind of read as a gut partner read to me.

"Vjay: Sampson's lurkiness didn't help you at all. Made a few cases, but those made senses... Not too much content at the moment, I think... Unsure."



REMEMBER THIS >>> Poro = unlynchable if BBmolla flips scum (or if multiball, Poro is not in BB's team, etc). <<< REMEMBER THIS


The stuff about "I may change my mind at a later point in time" and all those reads "for now" are very bad. Reads are always about the present, why does he need to remark on that they may change in the future? I've never seen him do this.

Not only is your "case" on porotown not at all convincing, I think it's down right silly. It could just as easily apply to you, since his read on you was JUST as "I dunno null" as it was on Poro. That sort of subtle manipulation rubs me the wrong way.

That comment makes Porochaz MORE LIKELY to be a bluebuddy, not less likely.

I also don't like how you start the day saying that Poro is town. How do you KNOW Poro isn't redscum, Tierce? Is it because you are redscum?


And as for your theory, it's wrong, as Yosarian pointed out. This isn't LyLo and we shouldn't be chasing our tails with bluescum. It's wonderful and great if we have a good case on bluescum and lynch it, but we should be lynching whomever we think is most likely to be scum, regardless of color. All factors equal, I would go for blue scum, but all factors are never equal.

[Amrun]

As per what I said yesterday,

Poro is confirmed not-Scumbag.

I'll get the votevounts from the files in a bit.

Actually I retract that one bit because I read "scumbag" as generic, but looking over the flips, I see what you're saying.

[Amrun]

You can believe that BB went that far to convince YOU and you alone, but I simply do not.

[Amrun]

Wait ... are you saying I'm using wifom to get an easy lynch when I'm using what you call wifom as a DEFENSE of the obviously easy lynch? Tell me how that makes sense.

Yeah, kuribo and YOU are totally the easy lynches here... Yeah right. *snerk*

[Amrun]

It's actually funny though because I totally forgot you were voting me.

That's one of the major reasons when I sat down to think about my top 3, I couldn't remember ANY current stance you had made - not one. I remember you being against BBmolla, but you've been a complete LACK OF PRESENCE for a long, long, long time... since before the crash. You're skating.

You're pretty flaky, so maybe it's just you, but I've never played with you before.

Why are you skating? Do you think you can get away with it?

I saw you posting in MD about how you usually play and it was NOTHING like you've been playing here, and THAT'S what made me wonder - not really anything you did in thread. That's probably a first for me, actually. I kind of dismissed it at the time, but then I was thinking about my top 3, you kept floating to the top of my consciousness. You have no current stances. You are not playing to your own self professed meta. I believe the most likely reason is because you're scum.

[Amrun]

I didn't think you would believe I forgot you voted me, but I don't really care.

It's a bit fun to see you riled up, though. Maybe you'll start giving a crap now. I was tired off you falling off the radar and wanted to shake things up.

You did fall off before the site crash, though you were active for most of day 1. I didn't say you were inactive the whole game. You've always been posting SOMETHING, but not involved the way you were in Day 1. That contrast is what I was noting.

Also, you were not the most vocal for the BB lynch. Sorry. You started off well, but then fell off in posting in general that day. That's my point.


But, all in all, I've liked your responses to me. Can you start playing again? I really enjoyed your play on Day 1.

p-edit: Oh, come off it. I don't know anything about you flaking when your father died. I don't even think I was part of the site then, and I don't care if I was or not. I've seen you abandon things myself and your father didn't die. I've heard other people say you are flaky in general. But still, I don't actually care. I said it because I knew it would piss you off and that was the whole point.

[Amrun]

Though I am sorry for upsetting you about your father. I really didn't have any idea about that and wasn't meaning to imply anything there.

[Amrun]

I never posted about your father. Where did I post about your father? As I said, I'm pretty sure I wasn't even on the site then. I don't know anything about it.

I'm not bothered by the fuck yous, for the record.

I don't think you get my point. I DID invent a case on you out of thin air. I wanted to get into an exchange with you because I didn't have a proper read on you besides "not bluescum," which isn't enough.

I'm pretty happy with you being town. I agree with Yosarian that the exchange with Reck looks pretty genuine, but I needed a little bit more than that.

I meant to rile you up and get a reaction from you, not remind you of your dead father. Go ahead and think I did that on purpose, if you want, but when you cool down you'll probably realize that's not really logical.

Instead of just lashing out at me and opening with the "fuck you" I sort of expected after the first post, though, you looked at my possible motivations. You didn't exactly explore them fully, and only looked at one side out of two, but it felt genuine enough to me

p-edit: I didn't do anything that anyone in the world would or should have an issue with. I'm sorry it upset you like that, but it isn't actually my fault.

[Amrun]

My case on BB was not invented. It had some weak initial reasoning to support my gut. That's not invented. That "invented" case led to a scum wagon and a scum flip, thanks very much.

This was not at all the same. I wasn't voting TSQ nor did I ever intend to. I name dropped him last in a list of three to see what he would do and try to get him to engage in the game a little. OH DEAR GOD HOW HORRIBLE I AM.

[Amrun]

Also I'd appreciate stopping the condescension, Tierce.

[Amrun]

If that's not your intention, then that's great. I just think you talk down to me specifically kind of all across the board and it was starting to grate a little.

In this case, yes, I understand what you mean, but I use a lot of methods to scumhunt. I use logic, of course, but I don't always present it fully. I do when it's something worth presenting.

But sometimes showing all the cards in your deck doesn't get the job done.

I also scumhunt with feeling, and reaction fishing, and intent seeking, and that sometimes involves things that can be a little opaque to the outsider (ie anyone not in my tiny tiny little brain).

In this game, I'm having trouble. I feel like my scum reads are shit and I don't know why. Even BBmolla, whom I was so sure was scum, was begun on weak grounds, and I know that.

I have some very strong town reads, and that's good, but I usually have some very strong scum reads to go with it. I have scum reads, but they're not ... materializing like they usually do.

So, when traditional methods aren't working, go for something else. Shake things up. Turn your null reads into a read worth having. That's all I was trying to do with TSQ, and I succeeded. I'm very sorry it made him emotional, but I couldn't have known it would do that.

[Amrun]

But fucks are fun!

[Amrun]

Well, I kind of feel the same way about UT, except that he pushed BB counterwagons hard, so there's that.

I kind of decided he was town on Day 1, but too many town reads etc. There's nothing REALLY strong that suggest he is town, and the stuff that was there was anti-redscum, and he's more likely to be bluescum than red.

[Amrun]

2) since when does Amrun do this "reaction-fishing" bullshit she's been trying to pull all game?

All the time. It's a basic staple of the way I play.

[Amrun]

VOTE: Porochaz

I get the feeling that he's some sort of organic scum.

[Amrun]

The thing that makes me think Poro might be bluescum is the same thing that you insist means he is not.

Let's review:

Poro - Initial posting looked good, but then he followed it up with some active filler jokes and provided no further reads. He later votes Uber commenting that the quality of his posts were "crap," but I don't really think this is true scumhunting, it looks more like him trying to appear to be doing something.

He's kind of scummy, but there's something telling me that he might be town, so null on him for now.

Tierce - I'm conflicted. She seemed scummy at first, then for a while she seemed town, but the bullshit she's pulled to push my lynch through un-nerves the crap out of me. She is completely ignoring the context of the meta, acting like I'd play exactly the same in a 13p as a 20p(Protip: I don't.) She's completely ignoring the fact that I'm playing to my town meta, instead opting to say "Oh yeah he's totally faking his town meta." Herp. My read on her is unfortunately going to be affected by my frustration in her terrible cases against me. I'll put her as misguided town for now, but I may change my mind at a later point in time.

What the hell are these.

If BBmolla flips scum, Poro is town. BBscum knows exactly what he is doing here with that read on Poro, which is to get me to call SCUMBUDDY READ:

In post 628 in Newbie #1185, BBmolla wrote:

In post 616, Tierce wrote:BB, why Post 415? That one has been gnawing at me.


Read the Vijay read. Scum always have a hard time placing their partner somewhere, and the "I donno, he's kinda scummy, but he makes sense, I donno" read kind of read as a gut partner read to me.

"Vjay: Sampson's lurkiness didn't help you at all. Made a few cases, but those made senses... Not too much content at the moment, I think... Unsure."



REMEMBER THIS >>> Poro = unlynchable if BBmolla flips scum (or if multiball, Poro is not in BB's team, etc). <<< REMEMBER THIS


The stuff about "I may change my mind at a later point in time" and all those reads "for now" are very bad. Reads are always about the present, why does he need to remark on that they may change in the future? I've never seen him do this.

Not only is your "case" on porotown not at all convincing, I think it's down right silly. It could just as easily apply to you, since his read on you was JUST as "I dunno null" as it was on Poro. That sort of subtle manipulation rubs me the wrong way.

That comment makes Porochaz MORE LIKELY to be a bluebuddy, not less likely.

I also don't like how you start the day saying that Poro is town. How do you KNOW Poro isn't redscum, Tierce? Is it because you are redscum?


And as for your theory, it's wrong, as Yosarian pointed out. This isn't LyLo and we shouldn't be chasing our tails with bluescum. It's wonderful and great if we have a good case on bluescum and lynch it, but we should be lynching whomever we think is most likely to be scum, regardless of color. All factors equal, I would go for blue scum, but all factors are never equal.

[Amrun]

Yosarian pointed out, quite well, that Poro's posts seem to be driving lynches on the surface without really believing in them. He supported the UN lynch without appearing to have actually read any of UN's posts.

It's honestly not very much about what's IN Poro's posts and what's NOT in them - scumhunting or anything useful. He's very blah. I think BB's posts point to him being bluebuddy.

At some point, I'll probably go through his posts and put a finger on the things that bother me.

[Amrun]

VOTE: Fate

[Amrun]

So we've had both abilities that benmage has claimed are in his joat used already...

And which abilities are those?

[Amrun]

I've never seen a coroner function that way, Benmage.

[Amrun]

Fate, I'm enjoying your downfall, and I'm going to enjoy more when you realize how wrong you are.

Shea gets a pass for being illogical, because he thinks I slighted him, but you're just being dumb.

[Amrun]

Porochaz, do you have an actual reason to lynch me besides "Amrun doesn't have a plan," which is a townie trait, rather than a scum trait?

[Amrun]

Porochaz, do you have an actual reason to lynch me besides "Amrun doesn't have a plan," which is a townie trait, rather than a scum trait?

No my case against you is that you do have a plan, which is a scum trait!

What's my plan? Barring that, what evidence is there that I have a plan that is scum motivated?

[Amrun]

What about burden of proof?

[Amrun]

I didn't say I had a plan. I wanted to hear what you thought.

Aggression is actually perfectly normal in my meta. Where did you get the impression that it is not?

You'd have to point out those logical fallacies. No one pointed any out. Shea pointed out that I hadn't mentioned him before - as I had hoped he would. That's not being logically unsound; it's being purposefully inconsistent in order to engender a response. It worked.

How does Yos being dead have anything to do with me agreeing with Yos' case - since I agreed while he was alive as well? Wouldn't I have had an easier time pushing your lynch through if I had kept him alive, if I was scum, theoretically?

I have agreed with Yos' case but added to it. There's not much more that CAN be added because you have about 3 posts with less content. The backbone of the case on you is your lack of content.

You say I have a plan, but you still haven't shown me that you didn't just make that up. What made you think that?

[Amrun]

There is a difference between short-term plans and long-term plans.

That's not the point, though. I'm trying to read Porochaz, not myself, so it's not important what I think. If I spoon feed him the answers, that won't help me one bit.

[Amrun]

We need Shadoweh whose browsing to comment.

And UT. Thats it.

Your hunger for this lynch is putting me off completely. Considering even if he does come back with a thread, I would have more than likely voted for him anyway. Your lack of patience makes me think that his statement of you lying holds more weight than initially thought.

Because everyone has patience when they've caught scum...? What?

[Amrun]

Also, Porochaz, are you really telling me that you expected my out-of-game persona to be the same as my in-game persona?

[Amrun]

I think the post I thought was to me was to someone else (the first part), so the question didn't come from nowhere, but disregard its source. I was confused.

I don't know that I've ever said "fuck" to anyone in this game. o.O What?

I've also been clear about my opinions. However, in this game, I've had less firm opinions on scum than usual, so I get that. I have some very firm town opinions. It's kind of driving me slowly insane. I can make up a scum read on anyone, but it's not the same as having that conviction. I had it with BB, though, but after that, it's been ... strange. That's just how it goes sometimes.

[Amrun]

It could be relevant to weather... but on Day 1, for example, the lynch threshold was publicly lower. Why would it be public one day and not public the next?

[Amrun]

Also--kuribo, Hascow flipped Navi on Weather Mafia I. This seems a strange coincidence.

Hmm.

[Amrun]

Same question for you, Amrun.

Roleblocker: Y/N, targets.

N.

[Amrun]

But that's more reliable than a cop guilty or similar...? What?

That's not what you were asked to explain.

[Amrun]

Well, a potential roleblocker wouldn't want to reveal himself to kuribo right away, especially if scum.

[Amrun]

Personally, I thought it was off, that day. I mean, he starts off the day guns blazing against me, but then as soon as a little bit of stink happens around kuribo hops on ... even though I started the stink? Voting with his supposedly biggest suspect? I commented on it, I believe. I could never quite figure that out.

[Amrun]

In other words... "Oh shit, I probably got tracked to my team's nk."

[Amrun]

=======[]

[Amrun]

It's cool 'cause he didn't. He's scum.

p-edit: Deny me this blood and pay. >:{

[Amrun]

I'm not full claiming. Benmage doesn't have anything on me because

I didn't DO anything last night

, so we can sit here and wave our dicks at eachother which I'm sure no doubt Benmage will do until I'm lynched and yuo all can go HERPDERP LAST TIME WE LISTEN TO BENMAGES FUCKING CLAIMS

[Amrun]

I love this town. <3

[Amrun]

Hey, UT, are you a tripod?

[Amrun]

Interesting. You are, in fact, trod, then. Android?

[Amrun]

VOTE: Tierce

Seemed like an upset scumbuddy yesterday.

[Amrun]

UT: Why not?

He didn't slip... he was rolecaught...

vote: amrun

Diesuckdie.

You need to take your head out of the sand. It's now clear that I'm not blue or red - so what sort of scum am I?

[Amrun]

Because I wanted to see how you'd answer, of course.

[Amrun]

You, like Fate, wanted to focus on finding bluescum and ignoring redscum. That's obvious scum motivation for redscum. Fate did it as self preservation and you could have as well.

More than that, though, you fencesat on the Fate lynch hard. He's scummy, you said, but then came up with a ton of ways to stall the lynch as long as possible.

Can we please not consider ending this day before Glork chimes in on yesterday's ill-timed lynch? We can have factors at play here.

...then what was I asked to explain? O_o I thought it was my vote.

Is it the roleblocker demands? I'm asking because kuribo claimed to have been blocked by Fate N1, yet Fate's voting pattern D2 does not match 'roleblocker who thinks he blocked a kill' (regardless of Fate's alignment), and you were the one who started off D2 voting kuribo, so you might match the roleblocker role, if it exists.

I am not voting Fate until Glork gets in here and explains what happened with Staeg. I'm making a scumread known, and placing a vote on her that won't make this day end just yet.

Examples above. When Glork DID clear this issue up, you still did not vote Fate.

When you asked Fate if he was a roleblocker, you gave him the answer you were looking for ("no") instead of waiting to see what he would answer without that influence him. You only asked ME after the fact.

No.

No no no no no.

Fate, you don't get to "policy vig" people who are obvtown.

You're better than this.

This post is really weird. It's written from the perspective that you believe Fate is town and possibly the vig, but don't come right out and say so. Saying he's "better" implies he's town, instead of scum, as obvious. No vote, still.

You only vote after I point out that he's backtracked on himself.

OMFG

FATE

SERIOUSLY

UNVOTE: Shadoweh

HAMMAH

VOTE: Fate

Super overreaction. You dragged your feet on this wagon until you were the hammer vote, despite ostensibly "supporting" it the whole time. Then, when you DO vote, you're like OMG FATE YOU'RE SUCH OBVIOUS SCUM.

Booyah.

Fate and Reck as scumbuddies? Good grief.

Also good to know there is still more redscum ('we'), thanks Fate.

The bolded is more fakey overreacting.


Your interaction with the Fate wagon REEKS of a bus. REEKS of it.

[Amrun]

In that last vote-count especally, both Kats and Shadoweh look bad; if Kats is scum with BB, then it's quite possible Shadoweh is also scum, and they just wanted to avoid been seen on the same wagon together.

Balancing multiscum is hard.
Balancing uneven multiscum is worse.

Are you suggesting a

BBmolla

/

Katsuki

/

Shadoweh

team, with

Reck

/

???

on the other side? If it's

BBmolla

/

Katsuki

/

Shadoweh

+

Reck

/

???

/

???

, we started off with

14

:

3

:

3

. That seems a bit brutal. On the other hand, if

Henchman

=

Goon

, so far we have low-powered scum and quite a bit of assumed-town power--dayvig, limited doublevoter, conftown limited doc; a higher number of scumroles might account for this apparent townpower. Prozac Basic Theme was 20 players 14:3:3, so it wouldn't be new.

I guess I just don't want to think we may have to lynch scum 4 more times if there are no crosskills. >.>

This is a perfect example of something I forgot to mention. Your scumhunting is EXCLUSIVELY for the bluescum team. You guess members at the blue scum, but not the red scum, for absolutely no reason.

War in Heaven just finished in which you crossbussed with Magua which was so unlikely and unviable a move for scum that people had Magua pegged as town for a long fucking time. You're reaching, no BEGGING for your BBM bus to get the same credit

Uh, no it did not... It got abandoned. That game would have gone on for several more months had the crash not happened. That logic is fucking terrible.

You don't even know who did and did not try to start a counterwagon, so don't pretend to have a grasp of this game.

I haven't made up my mind on you yet, no, and that's fine with me. I don't have an opinion on everyone in a game this large so early, and that doesn't bother me.

And what has the fact that WiHIII was 'abandoned' instead of 'finished' influence Fate's statement of what happened with you and Magua? Why is Fate's logic "fucking terrible"?

You go out of your way to defend Fate when I say his logic is bad, so quick that you miss that he defended himself. Why were you so concerned about the perception of Fate?

Town

:
DrippingGoofball (from singer)

Not

Scumbag

:
Amrun? (from BB's interactions; that "I think she's town" is not-buddy BB)
Fate (from VCA)
Porochaz (my own BBscum meta read)
Yosarian2 (from VCA)

You clear Fate based on VCA with no explanation ... along with Yosarian, an almost universal townread.

Amrun: Wrong answer. You should be willing to lynch bluescum over redscum, we have more bluescum dead and we want to eliminate a kill.

Why do YOU think Poro may be

bluescum

?

Just a quote to back up my earlier statement of you pushing bluescum over redscum - on faulty logic that both Yosarian and myself pointed out.

[Amrun]

If Tierce isn't lynched today based on this, then it will be a travesty.

[Amrun]

DGB is town

I'm on the Shadoweh is scum bandwagon, but not on the same scumteam as Staeg (who's non-Shadoweh reads are bullshit from what I've seen)

RED
Shadoweh
Yosarian (id like to think Yos scum would have put more effort in if his buddy was being run up than coasting it up)

BLUE
Staeg (aka Nuwen mcscumdefense)
Amrun
NotTierce
NotSinger

Tierce is NOT blue for pushing the BB wagon, but I am blue because I was bussing. The logic isn't the same. (And where is Shea, who also pushed the BB wagon as strong as either of us? He doesn't get mentioned at all.)

Because Shadow isn't on the same team as Nuwen (Staeg) who is prob Blue scum

then why do you think Shadoweh is scum? I would find it unlikely that buddy-Nuwen would continue fighting the molla lynch for as long as she did. A buddy would be more likely to try to force a counterwagon and then back off when that particular dipshit dirigible didn't fly. Like say, Shadoweh did.

pedit: dammit Amrun got to that thought first.

Anyway, Fate, do you have a reason why Shadoweh is scum besides the fishing if you think she's on the other scumteam?

Well you don't know Nuwen like I do. If she commits herself to defending a buddy she'll do it and be stubborn as all fuck until the day ends.

I don't like Shadow's posts. And at the first sign that people aren't going to put up with her scumshit she gets frustrated and goes "WELL FUCK YOU LAL THEN IMA LEAVE." Its a pretty common sight to see scum get pissy for being caught on the wrong reasons/nonlogic (aka what Staeg was sayin)

Really feeling Shadoweh not-red from Fate's posts. Every other major push from Fate has been on town (well, we don't know for sure with Yosarian and technically kuribo, but I am pretty confident those are town).

Porochaz
Shadoweh (replaces farside22 D1)

DrippingGoofball

(replaces Blackberry N1)

Amrun

Thestatusquo
Untrod Tripod
Tierce

Fate

(replaces SaintKerrigan D1)

kuribo
Benmage

Kuribo says he can coroner people, he should def check YOSARIAN to see if he was scum, otherwise this games pretty easy by PoE:

Town
Tierce

Kuribo
Benmage

Shea

DGB

Not Town
Shadoweh

Amrun

Porochaz (has posted anything ever?)

(Yes, I greened some people who aren't "confirmed;" get over it.)

This just makes me wonder about Porochaz. Posted soon after my exchange with Porochaz. The TIMING makes me think it's LESS likely Poro is redscum (capitalizing on possible momentum from my vote/push, like he did when I voted kuribo), but the note itself makes me think possible buddy. I guess it amounts to null, but it provoked my thoughts, so I thought I'd make a note for myself.

FUCK OFF UT IF I AM TO DIE IT IS BY TIERCES HAND

Weird post. It's the only thing that makes me doubt my Tierce read, but Fate knew he was fucked at this point, so wifom, etc.

p-edit: Tierce, even after Glork came in and cleared up the vote count issue, which was quite obviously never an issue to begin with, you STILL didn't vote Fate, and then you posted that strange fence-sitty post. Only after I made it CLEAR that Fate had fucked himself did you go "OH MY GOD SUPER ENTHUSIASTIC HAMMER THIS IS TOTALLY GENUINE YEP"

[Amrun]

WHAT the hell, I posted, and Tierce's post appeared AFTER mine... That was so weird.

I know you cleared him of scumbag only. I don't really care. Point still stands.

[Amrun]

My pick for last

blue

is Porochaz.

My pick for last

red

is Tierce.

[Amrun]

If I said as town, then I meant as notbluescum. Apologies.

[Amrun]

It was a random epiphany I had in the middle of watching Juice and I typed it very quickly, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's not the only mistake.

[Amrun]

That particular point is probably one I would omit if I sat down and carefully composed a case rather than the "ohmygodohmygodohmygod TIERCE IS TOTALLY SCUM ohmygod" that actually happened. I keyed into it because you didn't explain it and you didn't clear anyone else but obvtown Yosarian. I didn't re-look at the VCA in question in my hasty iso - and that one votecount IS fairly straightforward. However, I don't see how Shadoweh isn't also notbluescum from that, so it DOES still fit my point, just more loosely than I first thought.

However, there is nothing wrong with my other points, and I welcome you to challenge them. There are some, of course, like my opinion of your hammer, that will just be your word against mine, but you can't go saying, "You're using logical fallacies" without backing that up. Hoping using words like "fallacy" will discredit my case on its own is exactly the sort of thing I find scummy about you. What logical fallacies? Where? Show me.

[Amrun]

Town

:
DrippingGoofball (from singer)

Not

Scumbag

:
Amrun? (from BB's interactions; that "I think she's town" is not-buddy BB)
Fate (from VCA)
Porochaz (my own BBscum meta read)
Yosarian2 (from VCA)

No, you DIDN'T, Tierce. If you called Shadoweh not blue scum from something else, it DOESN'T COUNT. This is the list you posted after your vca, BASED ON YOUR VCA.

[Amrun]

And, you still scumhunted exclusively for bluescum and even admitted as much a couple of posts ago.

[Amrun]

Here are the basic facts of the case:

-You pushed the idea that we should hunt for bluescum over redscum. (See post 764 for proof.)
-You stalled the Fate wagon and even when the issue was cleared up, still did not vote Fate until the hammer. (Fact.)
-The way you handled the Fate wagon and eventually hammered in an overblown way seems like textbook bus to me. (Opinion.)

There are a couple of auxiliary points, such as your pre-emptive defense of Fate's logic and Fate treating you differently than he treated both me and TSQ over the same issue, but the above three points are the backbone of the case and easily verifiable.

This is added on to my earlier reasons for suspecting you, which were mainly your misrepresentations of yourself and occasionally very weird logic (like yesterday's "secret theory" about UT). They are nowhere near as strong as the above.

[Amrun]

I disagree. Outright defense is much less scummy than what Tierce actually did - and in fact, defense isn't scummy at all, and was the main derivative of my Nuwen/Staeg townread.

Tierce's actions didn't match her words. "Yeah, yeah, the Fate wagon is all well and good, but, LOOK - SOMETHING SHINY. OH NO, VOTE COUNTS ARE OFF. OH NO, SOMEONE ELSE IS SCUM. YES FATE MIGHT BE SCUM, BUT LOOK AT X!" (Note: need to look up who X was, forget.) She maintained that Fate was a good wagon, professed support of it, but did not actually vote until Fate had dug a grave so deep he was never coming out. She put a case on X out there as a "placeholder."

She, as redscum, KNEW Fate would flip scum, and did not want to risk defending him when his death looked so likely, but still hoped to distract town from the lynch.

p-edit: Shea, seriously, you need to get your head in the game. You're almost definitely town.

[Amrun]

Fuck that.

VOTE: Shadoweh

Die, redscum.

DO you think Shadoweh is town?

X was Shadoweh. I thought so, but couldn't remember for sure so I went back to check.

UUUUUGH LET ME THINK

DON'T DO ANYTHING STUPID KAY

I promise content in a few hours. Other stuff calls for attention elsewhere and I need to look at this with critical eyes because Fate has been buddying me for ages now and UGH.

STALL STALL STALL

[Amrun]

you have been on town all game, have pushed wagons on easy town lynches, have defended scum players,

PS: None of these things are actually true, especially the first.

[Amrun]

I'm not opposed to massclaim with town in such a lead.

[Amrun]

You haven't done one thing to show why I am absurd.

[Amrun]

I have one stipulation for massclaim:

Porochaz goes before me. Period.

Everything else is cool.

[Amrun]

I won't claim before Porochaz. And also, anyone with a clear head can see that I'm not red or blue scum due to my interactions with BBmolla and Fate.

Other than that, I actually think DGB should start, seeing as how we have an innocent result on her. But Benmage is more in-tune with the game, so I wouldn't mind if he went first.

[Amrun]

Pretty clearly I'm not just saying this for shits and giggles. Porochaz first. He can claim first and I can go second, I don't care, but Porochaz before me.

[Amrun]

I don't have role based info that Porochaz is definitely scum, or I'd be voting Porochaz. But I have role based information that means Porochaz claims before I do.

[Amrun]

You don't, actually, but you clearly expect me to claim before you, as you think I'm so obviously scummy (despite the fact that nobody agreed with you but Fate), so why would you?

By all rights, Porochaz should claim before me ANYWAY since he's been a heap of nothing all game and I have a veritable mountain of evidence that shows I am not on either scumteam.

[Amrun]

Shadoweh, you should join me for righteousness on Tierce. Thoughts on my case?

[Amrun]

Fair enough, Shadoweh.

I'm still waiting for you to show my illogical absurdities, Tierce. I broke down the case into neat little bits just as you asked.

[Amrun]

That's fine. You just didn't mention it at all and I didn't want to let it go. I can wait.

[Amrun]

Thoughts on my Tierce case, kuribo?

[Amrun]

You hammered quickly after it was pointed out Fate lied; that's not what I'm arguing at ALL. You said you were waiting for Glork. Glork came and went, and still, no vote on the wagon. No vote on the wagon until Fate really and truly shot himself in the foot and there was no excuse not to vote him anymore.

[Amrun]

And I just have to take your word on that.

You kept moving the bar and adding more reasons why you wouldn't vote Fate. You swore you were going to vote Fate as soon as Glork came back with an answer, but when he did, you decided you had to reread before voting (even though it was BLATANT by that point that Fate was scum; he had claimed a THIRD vig, lied, backtracked, etc.)

That's an incredibly strong associative tell.

[Amrun]

I also want dgb to be up early as well

Are you dense? Seriously.

Benmage, is it popcorn or does UT go next, like you said?



Also, Tierce, I have read perfectly well, and post-game, I will explain to you how you come across as condescending if you don't already know.

I will dig up some quotes.

[Amrun]

Okay, Tierce, let's go through this ONE MORE TIME.

unvote

...



Either Glork missed this, or we have a lynch threshold manipulator.

@mod: How many people were voting Staeg at lynch? IE, was the lynch a mod error?

You point out the Steag issue.

I have Issues with the fact that most people on the lynch wagons are unconfirmed. There's redscum f'shure in the BBmolla wagon, for example.

Fate is still not bluescum.

(Amused with, regardless of how off the mark my ISO #51 was, Katsuki flipped Scumbag.)


PEdit: Burden of Proof? Seriously?

Only mention of Fate (whom the day is revolving around) is to say he's not bluescum.

Can we please not consider ending this day before Glork chimes in on yesterday's ill-timed lynch? We can have factors at play here.

Stall.

I'm sitting on my non-vote and townreads from just about everyone and not budging until Glork gets in here, kthx.

You're not voting anyone until Glork gets here.

Fuck that.

VOTE: Shadoweh

Die, redscum.

But then you vote Shadoweh - indirectly calling Fate town. Fate's not bluescum, and Shadoweh is redscum, so Fate is neither.

...then what was I asked to explain? O_o I thought it was my vote.

Is it the roleblocker demands? I'm asking because kuribo claimed to have been blocked by Fate N1, yet Fate's voting pattern D2 does not match 'roleblocker who thinks he blocked a kill' (regardless of Fate's alignment), and you were the one who started off D2 voting kuribo, so you might match the roleblocker role, if it exists.

I am not voting Fate until Glork gets in here and explains what happened with Staeg.

I'm making a scumread known, and placing a vote on her that won't make this day end just yet.

You do the roleblocker thing and post this. Key phrase: "I am not voting Fate until Glork gets in here." Yes, that's supporting the wagon and promising to vote when Glork gets in here.

Modertor's Note:

After reviewing the voting towards the end of day yesterday, I must note that Staeg never reached the required 7 votes to be lynched due to an error in tallying votes. However, I believe that the most reasonable course of action is to continue the game in its current state, in part because there isn't any fair or balanced way to go back and undo the end-of-day and night phases.

I sincerely apologize to the players for this error, and I apologize especially to Staeg.

I will provide a complete elaboration on this situation after the game's conclusion, but ultimately, I made a mistake. Again, I apologize.

A (perfectly accurate, I promise) vote count is forthcoming.

Glork clears things up.

why would redscum Shadoweh start a counterwagon on me for bluescum BBmolla?

My half-concocted theory is that you are her buddy, but don't tell anyone.

Your first post after that - NO VOTE! Still on Shadoweh, talking about Shadoweh.

No.

No no no no no.

Fate, you don't get to "policy vig" people who are obvtown.

You're better than this.

I've already discussed with this vote is weird - and you acknowledge that you were remarking how off of meta Fate was. STILL NO VOTE.

UUUUUGH LET ME THINK

DON'T DO ANYTHING STUPID KAY

I promise content in a few hours. Other stuff calls for attention elsewhere and I need to look at this with critical eyes because Fate has been buddying me for ages now and UGH.

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME YOU MENTION NEEDING TO RE-READ. FIRST TIME. You didn't say the whole time, "I will vote Fate when I re-read and Glork comes back." You said you'd vote Fate when GLORK CAME BACK. Then, when GLORK CAME BACK, you decided you had to re-read first. You moved the bar. FACT. You can argue you were doing it for x or y reasons, but you DID move the bar and this is inarguable fact.

OMFG

FATE

SERIOUSLY

UNVOTE: Shadoweh

HAMMAH

VOTE: Fate

Benmage and I point out the obvious. You finally vote Fate, and now so enthusiastic all of a sudden.

[Amrun]

I wanted DGB to decide the order, not Benmage.

Whatever, I'm around, so I'll just go next.

I'm an organic cop. (I'm actually Eve from the Wall-e movie.)

Results:

N1: kuribo - Organic
N2: Shadoweh - Organic
N3: Porochaz - Organic
N4: Untrod Tripod - Not Organic

My first several investigations were aimed for "what does this power actually do." Kuribo claimed organic, so I investigated him, and returned organic. After Reck and BBmolla flipped scum organic, I thought maybe scum was organic, so I went after kuribo on Day 2 to see what shook out. (I also had bad vibes etc.)

But Shadoweh claimed organic as well and I did not have a scumread on Shadoweh - still, I decided to test her claim.

Porochaz I investigated because he was my top suspect of the time. I wanted to claim before him to make sure he claimed something organic in case I caught him in a lie - but he claimed a chicken, which would be organic.

UT I investigated based upon suspicion as well, but when my attempted breadcrumb (breadcrumbing something so clunky is very awkward) turned into him telling me he was an Android, I decided he was likely town. He was so un-scared of telling me I was an Android, and was more curious about me than concerned about my fishing.

[Amrun]

Oh, popcorn to Tierce, duh.

[Amrun]

There's been four nights, UT. Did you miss one?

[Amrun]

Ah.

[Amrun]

Well, also I basically claimed my role name on day 1

Totally forgot this happened. Oh well.

[Amrun]

amrun, you do realize we've had both organic and non organic scum, right? Within the same scumgroup, even. Why the hell was it imperative that poro claim before you? What would you have done to "catch him"

If he claimed inorganic, I would know he was lying. As simple as that. That seems to be the only utility to this role anyway.

[Amrun]

psyduck, variable powered unnightkillable. Based on the weather I can either be completely unnightkillable, completely nightkillable, or unnightkillable by certain people. I'd rather keep which types which secret for obvious reasons, but I'll claim it if enough people want me to.

Last night I chose amrun as being unable to target me. I like my vote.

DGB.

I didn't target you last night, herpadyderp.

My exhange with UT was UNBELIEVABLY OBVIOUS, as well as my exchanges with kuribo and Poro on this.

You're straight up refusing to think.

[Amrun]

VOTE: poro

Glad my scumdar was on point.

I wish we could wait for dgb ... Hope she shows up, but she's busy.

If Yos was really scum I'll cry.

We're in a good place so I'll live with being lynched tomorrow, even though I'm obvtown at this point. But I get it.

[Amrun]

Even though shea thinking he was the nk over people like bbenmage and kuribo is weird.

[Amrun]

I was the very first to have a townread on him (I think) after our initial spat.

I'm just trying to think what else could have stopped the kill, since I'm not scum that attempted to kill TSQ so that's not it. I pretty obviously investigated UT but whatever.

Poro, don't be butthurt because I've been on your case and now you're caught.

[Amrun]

How have I been "a cock?"

[Amrun]

Porochaz, I haven't made any dick moves. If you're referring to that thing with TSQ, that was an accident.

I HAVE A THEORY, THOUGH, LET ME CHECK SOME THINGS

[Amrun]

We still have an unaccounted for scum roleblocker that blocked kuribo n1.

It wasn't Fate. He flipped goon.

[Amrun]

If Poro doesn't flip GF, its set as a 1v1 between Amrun and TSQ.

And this is just not true.

Yeah, that's not true AT ALL.

[Amrun]

Are you totally blind?

I spent all of today building a case on Tierce as the last redscum.

I called Poro the last bluescum yesterday and re-iterated that today.

o.O

[Amrun]

Did you READ my fucking case? I spent a long time on it and you don't even know it exists.

[Amrun]

I maintain that I am the dumbest lynch after you, dgb, and kuribo, (and possibly shea). I have been ragged on hard all game by blue AND red, up to and including yesterday, when Fate tried to deflect the lynch onto me. I was instrumental in the BBmolla lynch. It is not reasonable that I am scum.

The ONLY thing against me is this thing with TSQ, despite the fact that it is unlikely that TSQ was even a kill target last night, and despite the fact that I clearly performed an action last night on someone else, and despite the fact that one missing kill is accounted for by you and there is definitely a scum roleblocker out there that could be accountable for the other, among other things that could account for it.

p-edit: HOW does it show she is NOT RED when it actually shows he is RED? Fate treated me, Tierce, and TSQ differently all over the same issue. The same thing made me scum, Tierce town, and TSQ ... nothing?

[Amrun]

DGB is town

I'm on the Shadoweh is scum bandwagon, but not on the same scumteam as Staeg (who's non-Shadoweh reads are bullshit from what I've seen)

RED
Shadoweh
Yosarian (id like to think Yos scum would have put more effort in if his buddy was being run up than coasting it up)

BLUE
Staeg (aka Nuwen mcscumdefense)
Amrun
NotTierce
NotSinger

Tierce is NOT blue for pushing the BB wagon, but I am blue because I was bussing. The logic isn't the same. (And where is Shea, who also pushed the BB wagon as strong as either of us? He doesn't get mentioned at all.)

[Amrun]

I didn't say it was cut and dry. I could be wrong, but I think I'm right.

Him not listing TSQ IS my point; it doesn't contradict my point.

Also Fate's thing after he was caught saying only Tierce can hammer was awkward.

[Amrun]

Yes, but why did he choose to say it at that exact time? I think it was misdirection.

[Amrun]

At THAT point, he did, though. He realized he was fucked. He was about to be hammered. By that point he was just shitting in the wind and he knew it.

[Amrun]

?

[Amrun]

And the possibility that scum have a RB.

This isn't a possiblity; kuribo was blocked n1. A roleblocker exists and town hasn't claimed one. None have flipped (though the blue flips are a little ambiguous, now that I look again.)

But this r2d2 thing is interesting.

I agree we should sort that out.

Good catch, kuribo.

Hopefully DGB will come around and claim soon.

[Amrun]

Luckily, I can check someone tonight to see if they're lying about organic/inorganic, which MAY help, as r2d2 should be inorganic (but who the fuck knows if this will even help).

I was so excited to get a PR. At first, I thought I was a regular cop and I was like YESSSSSSSS

But those hopes were dashed.

[Amrun]

Oh, yeah, yos can be r2d2.

It could still be scum, though, but yos is probably more likely.

[Amrun]

Unvote

No reason not to wait for DGB.

[Amrun]

Eek, good luck with that, Shadoweh.

[Amrun]

VOTE: Tierce

She's not organic, but that's to be expected.

But dear God, what is going on with this set-up?

[Amrun]

Who did you target last night?

[Amrun]

I'm confirmed Organic you Untaught Twit, why would you check to see if I'm a robot. -_-

Enough clowning around. Benmage didn't fullclaim before the bumrush. So far his role seems to be seven times more powerful then every other role that's flipped and the scumteams don't seem strong enough to warrant it. What the hell are you?

Tierce, do you remember that part where Porochaz wasn't scum? Where did your mind change when we had two other roles claim non-nightkilling abilities? This is on top of whatever the last two (three?) scum can do.

HEY GUESS WHAT I DID LAST NIGHT

IT WAS NOTHING

I HATE ALL OF YOU

How do you know you're confirmed organic?

You know I'm town?

[Amrun]

Okay. I'm satisfied with that.

But one of my townreads has to be wrong. At LEAST one.

Something is off with this game.

[Amrun]

Because I suspected Tierce and didn't even think about DGB's claim since she has a cop innocent on her. I'm happy with my choice.

[Amrun]

I don't think the game balances unless singer is sane.

p-edit: kondi was a pineapple

[Amrun]

I was blue and red's lynchpony all game. Which team am I on, Benmage?

[Amrun]

I could be BLUE? After BBmolla and Katsuki? Oh god, whatever you are smoking, I want it.

[Amrun]

I voted BBmolla FIRST and brought attention to him when EVERYONE was ignoring him, which eventually led to his death, and I pushed his wagon the whole time.

I didn't do much with Kats, though Yos had a good case on him that people consistently pooh-poohed, including YOU, Fate, and kuribo (I think I voted Kats but I forget), but Kats consistently tried to deflect onto me, from Day 1 until his death.

[Amrun]

Vote Count 1.23
BBMolla 4 (Amrun, Thestatusquo, Tierce, Untrod Tripod)
Katsuki 3 (BBMolla, Yosarian2, Nuwen)
Amrun 3 (Benmage,

Fate

,

Katsuki

)
hasdgfas 2 (farside22, singersigner)
UberNinja 2 (Porochaz, kuribo)
Nuwen 2 (UberNinja, UberNinja)
Yosarian2 1 (MattP)
Tierce 1 (hasdgfas)
singersigner 1 (snifit)

Just like here, Katsuki took any opportunity to push me, and particularly when I was a viable counterwagon to BBmolla.

[Amrun]

Yeah I actually misremembered that, sorry. I realized when I was flipping through looking for a VC.

[Amrun]

8 left

0 die Day 6

2 town deaths Night 6 (worst case scenario)

Start Day 7 with something like:

1-1-4
2-2-2
???

I don't think it's worth the risk. Kuribo could die tonight anyway. This game needs flips.

p-edit: Interesting

[Amrun]

Yosarian is definitely not Blue. No way in hell. He pushed for Katsuki hard starting on Day 1 until Katsuki's death. Katsuki pushed for HIS death, too. He's unlikely red as well, but far more likely red than blue.

[Amrun]

Who. Did. You. Target.

[Amrun]

That's fine. I wouldn't have asked again if you just answered the first time.

[Amrun]

No, they really did because Fate admitted to killing kondi.

[Amrun]

That's what I was saying...

[Amrun]

But would blue be so careless, KNOWING who they killed?

[Amrun]

Who is that, the scum roleblocker? Do enlighten us as to who that is, tsq. *rolls eyes*

Your explanation - that it is me - is refuted by all in-thread evidence and the fact that there was no kill AGAIN the subsequent night should be enough for you. Because as scum, I would totally try to kill YOU

again

. That makes perfect sense. It doesn't even make sense that ANY scum would have tried to kill you THAT night, let alone again last night. Jesus.

[Amrun]

There is definitely a scum roleblocker; kuribo was blocked n1.

My point is that even if we accept that as scum, I would kill TSQ on Night 5 (which isn't true, but is wifom, so whatever), why would I then DO IT AGAIN, knowing that tsq can protect himself from kills? It's the dumbest theory.

The lack of NK is a mystery, obviously, but this theory does not make sense.

If I get lynched for this, I will understand, but I'm not going to go quietly into that good night when I'm town AND there's a bunch of evidence that shows it. It's against my wincon.

[Amrun]

If we're talking about a scum roleblocker, they could have roleblocked you thinking you would kill them.

So I simultaneously got blocked from making a kill by scum and tried to kill TSQ and failed due to his ability? Makes sense.

[Amrun]

You know who else they could have roleblocked?

Anyone.

[Amrun]

I just thought how funny it would be if there are two scum roleblockers that are roleblocking each other and know who each other are.

But day play doesn't indicate that, so it's probably not true.

But it would be funny.

[Amrun]

Amrun hasn't done much other then defend herself.

Such a lie.


I've put an excellent case together on Tierce which keeps getting ignored.


TSQ, everyone should claim results, including you. I think I know where you were going with your answer to me, but it didn't occur to me beforehand.

There are plenty of other people for scum to kill that make more sense to kill, and they're not trying to kill you anyway. You're stuck on town, and they love that.

[Amrun]

Are you seriously that fucking blind? And how do I have a persecution complex? That's honestly ridiculous, with your sample size (this game) in which I've done nothing to suggest that. When someone calls you scum and you are not, it is your duty as town to counter that accusation.

I THINK TIERCE IS SCUM

I was really convinced Prozac was the bluescum, so I need to go back and do that. UT is my next choice, but there is possibly some thing that means he's not bluescum, if I check, which I will, but I'm more convinced of Tierce scum so I care less right now. He pushed counterwagons to BBmolla HARD, though. I do remember that.

[Amrun]

I intend to care more about my other reads... sometime. I intended to care more today, but it's been a doozy. My grandmother (in law) died today, following another death in the family two days ago.

Two funerals this weekend. Again. Blegh. Less emotional this time, though.

p-edit: UT, I welcome you to present counter evidence. I haven't really done the requisite research yet (but I will). My opinion may change at that time - but you should be trying to change it, as any alignment, so go.

[Amrun]

I specifically said there could be a reason UT is not bluescum, and that I would look for it when I had time.

That sounds like a good reason, and that's good.

And I don't know where you even get that from - I don't have the best memory, but when I make a stand, I research it absolutely thoroughly. You clearly have never seen me play LyLo.

And I change my opinion ALL THE TIME. All the time. When it's he said, she said, I sometimes don't, and why should I? I've been burned SO MANY TIMES in the past from changing my mind. I let people I thought were "better" talk me out of wins more times than I can count (best example: white flag) and it's taught me to trust myself.

[Amrun]

...Considering you took a stand on BB with an initially crappy case (it doesn't matter if he flipped scum, that's not the point I'm trying to make here) and took a stand on me throughout most of the game with a crappy unresearched case too because you couldn't be bothered to open the D1 cache, I daresay you do NOT "research it absolutely thoroughly".

Okay I'm done.

The case I put forward on you isn't unresearched - even if you disagree with it, and even if it is ultimately wrong - and considering my stand on BB was on DAY 1 (oh god, all the research I didn't do!), I don't understand your point. I'm not sure if you mean it this way, but this feels like a personal attack. It doesn't bother me or upset me, but is 100% irrelevant to this game.

Honestly, TSQ, suck it. Vanillaside was one of the lowest points

of my entire life

. Considering that you think I mocked you or something about you flaking after your father died - which I did NOT do, as I was entirely unaware of any relation - then you should be absolutely fucking ashamed of yourself for saying what you just said. My play in that game suffered because I had two back to back deaths in my family that cut me deeply and involved a lot of travel. At least I didn't flake - AND I won that game.

This situation is nothing like that situation. Two people in my fiance's family, whom HE barely even knew, died, and while I have to go to their funerals, it's not a life changing thing. How dare you try to shame me for some imagined future thing after all the fuss you caused over something I was not even trying to say to you. The hypocrisy is really astounding.

[Amrun]

I didn't say SHIT that was important, or AtE, just a passing mention of why I hadn't ALREADY looked back into the archive re: UT, who I'm not even voting or pushing. In hindsight, I should have just said, "I had a tough day," but I just mentioned it because it's a social game, it happened to me, whatever.

The only person I have an issue with right now is TSQ, though, and only THEN because of the hypocrisy. If the previous events hadn't happened, I would have just shrugged that off because he doesn't know me, but the hypocrisy reeks. Even so, I just had to say something, and it's said, so I'm good.

With YOU, Tierce, I just wanted to point out that nothing that you're trying to argue with me over (whether I research things when it's important) is AT ALL relevant to the game, and you're just slandering me for no reason, and not even accurately. I guess because you don't like me. That's fine. I don't care. Just keep it out of the game, because it is not relevant. The thing you're complaining about is what YOU are doing, right now.

I have never felt so personally attacked in a game and luckily, I'm secure with myself enough not to care too much, but it's still annoying.

[Amrun]

You ARE personally attacking me, though, about a different issue (not that one).

It doesn't actually upset me, but it is a fact that it is happening. As I said earlier, I'm not sure of your intent.

And I AM one of those people who would say, "Sorry about your cancer, but you're scum," and that's what I expect of other people. When I sit down and really think about it, I try to avoid that, but I don't always realize it.

No one was happier than me that Vanillaside was erased in the crash. It is the lowest point of my entire life, and has left people with this idea that I manipulated out of game, but I DID NOT. I could not control my emotions in that game because I was extremely emotional during that time, so people could see my pain. I cried EVERY DAY trying to read that game. I would have lynched myself in a heartbeat. It is not my fault that others did not. Period. It has nothing to do with any other game I have ever played or ever will play.

p-edit: That is NOT what I claimed OR what I did. But the game isn't around. All I said post game was that the town ALLOWED me to lurk and that it worked to not my advantage, which it did. I never lurked on purpose. I truthfully said it probably decreased my desire to not lurk, which happened naturally and not on purpose. But I would really like to stop talking about this.

[Amrun]

I do have a game question for you, Tierce (that can obviously wait until morning): I want to invite you to present evidence that you are town. You addressed my case, said you would address it further and then ... I don't know that there's much more to say there, anyway. But what about other stuff? VCA, whatever you think? Make your town case for yourself. I'd like to see it. I still think my case on you is textbook something-scum-would-do, but it doesn't sit right in my gut and maybe there's a reason for that.

p-edit: Yes, that's fine.

[Amrun]

All I can do is point to my ISO and say that I don't think scum would behave that way (that is, that my behavior is something scum wouldn't do), and that this is very different from the finished games that have Tiercescum

I wasn't asking for proof. I was asking for this.

[Amrun]

I would also really like a fullclaim from Benmage. It's time.

[Amrun]

Wait, does that mean we get a janitored lynch tomorrow? :/

[Amrun]

And can scum still kill during a blizzard?

[Amrun]

Oh, nevermind, I was thinking it would be both night and day.

God, that's terrible, we really need flips right now.

[Amrun]

Hahaha at your spoiler.

[Amrun]

I don't think lynching her is a good idea when we're almost positive she's town. I'd rather have not-reading town in LyLo than not get to LyLo.

[Amrun]

Tierce, I'm inorganic. I'm a robot.

[Amrun]

Can you clarify your last paragraph, because I am confused.

Asking Glork.

[Amrun]

I'm FENCESITTING (tm).

I really think the case I put forth on you describes classic scum behavior, but it disagrees with my gut. But I have reasons not to vote everyone else.