Mafia of the Raptured (Game Over!)

[Syryana]

hi guys

I'm so sorry that you drew scum, fery. Best we get this over with quickly.
VOTE: fferyllt

if it does not include both 1 and 2, then the answer is a flat-out "no." If it does include 1 and 2, then you can explain those reasons, and then we'll decide if it's a good idea.

You could have just stopped at "no".

I've been thinking about that newbie game. I assume pjo gambits no matter what alignment he is.

He's your scumbuddy, isn't he.

I feel that Tammy is trying to feign content by discussing game mechanics/merely commenting instead of scumhunting.

Matt looks town

Why does Matt look town?

The timing of this scumhunting is most suspicious.

Scum: fery, Pjo, Tammy

I think finding three scum before the end of Page 2 is some kind of record for me

[Syryana]

I'm so sorry that you drew scum, fery. Best we get this over with quickly.
VOTE: fferyllt

damn you're good.

[Syryana]

Syryana, what do you think of Whimsy? Why are you voting ffrey?

1)I want to see his response on why he has a Matt townread. His point about Tammy is good.
2)Reaction trolling, naturally.

VOTE: Tammy

Pedit: Oho! A fight! Let's dance, Tammy-o!

[Syryana]

Cool. Why is it suspicious. And I'll totally admit to it being suspicious, if you can point to where I was posting at this site in the meantime and then hopped to it to do some scumhunting because I was called out. And if you really think someone saying I'm not scumhunting on page two of a mafia game makes me get all skittish and run to scumhunt, you clearly don't know how I think as scum.

Why don't you ask me why I'm finding the Matt town reads suspicious? Show me you're actually interested in determining my alignment.

It's completely irrelevant whether you were posting elsewhere on the site. The point is, Whimsy-boy over there calls you out for not scumhunting, then you make a post yelling at him, and two minutes later you start scumhunting.

I already know why you find the Matt townreads suspicious. And I've already figured out your alignment

Pedit: And more self-meta! This is glorious!

[Syryana]

Okay Zach's right, Zdenek is town.

You aren't.

[Syryana]

Okay Zach's right, Zdenek is town.

You aren't.

You're so cute.

Pedit: I HAVE LACED LE FLOOR WITH MINES, IN THEM YOU SHALL STEP

[Syryana]

My shoes have a mine detector. I'm like, untouchable.

Serial killer. KILL IT WITH FIRE

how about we stop the circle jerk....

and lynch fferyllt

Lynch Tammy first

[Syryana]

Syryana protip you should stop wasting your time with Tammy

I'm totes not wasting time.

You seem awfully well informed.

Naturally. I know all the things.

Hey Syryana - I have some grading to do. What you should do is call me out for something. I'll come back in like 20 minutes and hop to it to get it done.

Nah, you're town.

VOTE: fferylit

He should be at L-2 right now for lying. If ffery doesn't want to change his story I can go on

I'm good with this.
VOTE: fferyllt

[Syryana]

Until then I'll probably just lurk y'all boring.

I'M NOT BORING HOW DARE YOU

[Syryana]

Whimsical Eggplant scum = you scum.
This sentence:
Agreed with mattp(town read) that releasing flavor is a bad idea.

Where else could he get that you said releasing flavour is a bad idea?

Well there's a possibility that he's just making up something for a town read on you but i think the first is a higher possibility.

This is amazingness on a scale I've never seen before. I daresay it even verges on awesomeness.

VOTE: Whimsical

MattP

never said releasing flavor is a bad idea

in this thread

.


Zdenek and Tammy are Town. I want to say Syryana is Town too, though the complaint about people using self-meta is silly. Then he goes and posts Post 56 and I forgive everything.

Never ever stop being so obvtown Tierce <3

Oh shit are you guys actually lovers with a qt

Zzz

No.

Now vote Whimsical.

Pedit: Zdenek. Why would scum want to push something obviously scum? That would be the height of dumbfuckery; "HAY GAIZ THERE'S A ROLE OUT THERE THAT DOES GOOD THINGS FOR SCUM LET'S ALL OUT OUR FLAVOR INFO SO IT WOULD BE EASIER FOR THE SCUM TO FIND IT" So I ask you; why would scum

not

think releasing flavor information is a bad idea?

Pedit2: Yep, Matt is scum too. This game gonna be EZ

[Syryana]

Pedit2: Yep, Matt is scum too. This game gonna be EZ

You're very bad at this

I suggest you replace out and let Amrun take your spot

Doesn't it burn you in your soul to be caught by someone so terrible

[Syryana]

1) Im happy you're townreading people but don't set a precedent for stupidity, syryana respects you a lot and if you keep doing that he may start making reads lists

Reads lists!

Town: Tammy, Tierce, Enomis

Probably Town: Zdenek

Not Town: Eggplant, Matt, fery, Pjo

No clue: Errbody else

[Syryana]

I wonder.

What do you think of Mattp and the slip from Whimsical that Enomis pointed out?

[Syryana]

I like your town list. I'd add mrbungle to the probtown.

withholding judgement on Pjo.

And you're town.

[Syryana]

This is a bad post and you should feel bad.

Why are people not allowed to hunt scum after you tell them they are not hunting scum?
And when are they supposed to start?

There is mafia motivation in these words.
Indeed.
Mafia would really love people who are not contributing to continue doing so.
Indeed, if mafia are able to paint scum motivation on people FOR starting to contribute (even if it's just a lil' dash of it), that would be a good thing.

I'm taking both my eyes. And I'm watching the shit out of you, brother.
Yeah.
Even when you're under the shower, yeah.

You're missing the point of the post.

Feel free to watch me in the shower though, my viewer count has been dropping lately!

[Syryana]

Pushing for a massclaim D1 is a specific situation that has nothing to do with Pjovek's behavior so far. Why are you trying to pin someone else's meta and somegame else's situation on him?

Excellent point.
VOTE: Zachrulez

[Syryana]

Also I'd like to note that I never asked for a massclaim. Just a claim of really minor flavor. Not even rolenames or anything. Really minor. I honestly didn't (and don't) see the harm in it.

What if the scum are looking for a specific flavor name/type? Then a flavor claim will guide them straight to it.

What do you think the benefit to town is for flavor claiming? What do you personally get out of it?

[Syryana]

I'm going to assume syryana is town for a while, because i want him to be.

On an unrelated note because I'm curious, why do you want me to be town?

[Syryana]

I don't know, why don't you tell me what flavor scum is actually looking for? :3

Chocolate Vanilla Swirl Cupcake Maker Pokemon

On one side, we got the fabricated looking townread on MattP
On the other side, we got the "scumslip"

These contradict each other in conclusion, since, assuming Eggplant flips scum, the fabricated townread on Matt would mean Matt being town, while the slip would obviously mean he talked with Matt in the scumQT, making matt scum.

Scum slips by mentioning something from QT
Scum fabricates townread on partner
I don't see the problem

[Syryana]

aaand probtown on Pjo.

Why?

I think Zach's points against pjo are legit. I also believe that scum will push anti-town plans, and that's not a meta-thing, just a scummy thing. On the other hand, I'd expect scum-pjo to have pushed it with more of a singular focus, rather than also making a made up reads list at the same time. It's more gambitty things than I'd expect from scum at one time. I should point out that I don't like pjo's overtly "logical" post discrediting the reasons behind the Whimsical Eggplant votes - it's just too incorrect.

Zach's stance on Pjovek is not the problem. The way Zach is pushing that stance is the problem. Will explain shortly.

Don't really care to state my thoughts on matt. Not to you at least.

Are you one of those people?

it makes things a little simpler i guess? idk really. Also you should stop spamming :\. Quintupleposts shouldn't be a thing.

You should probably never join a game with buldermar in it.

Then why switch wagon? Give me a legit reason why you think Zach wagon is better.

My reason for being on the Whimsywagon was primarily due to the scumslip. It's fairly obvious at this point that wagon is going precisely nowhere (particularly given Whimsy hasn't been seen since that slip post) and I like the Zach wagon for a couple of reasons. The problem with Zach is not what he's saying against Pjovek's flavor claim; I 100% agree that flavor claim is a terrible idea. However, look how Zach pushes the idea; he links a game where scum got away with pushing mass claim on Day 1 without giving reasons and claims that's sufficient reason to lynch Pjovek (as Pjo has not given reasons either). He makes no attempt to ask Pjo what his reasons are and the game he linked has little to do with the situation at hand; the mechanics are entirely different, pushing flavor claim is different from pushing massclaim, etc. I believe Tierce has already gone over this. In the meantime, Zach

still

has not tried to scumhunt, figure out Pjo's reasoning for pushing flavor claim, has not looked for any suspects other than Pjo. He's being very lazy and his method for pushing his scumread on Pjo frankly sucks. Now, I've never played with Zach before (he was my mod in Micro 134, <3), but when I see someone with a scummy for Best Town Performance doing lazy/bad things like this it calls for some voteage. And I'm shamelessly sheeping Tierce.

Pedit: Hey Pjo, I can guarantee you voting sword is not going to make him talk to you any faster.

[Syryana]

Mod, I will be LA until tomorrow.

[Syryana]

Catching up tomorrow.

[Syryana]

Whats up guys

Someone tell me what's going on

[Syryana]

What happens if someone who you don't target tries to kill you?

It will fail. I am protected from kills unless I target someone who tries to kill me.

So you're unkillable unless you target someone that targets you for death?

That's.... pretty fuckin OP.

[Syryana]

I'm not voting Antagon.

Fery, where the hell are you at? I see you skulking round here. Come talk to me about your current reads.

[Syryana]

Oh hi! I've been hoping you'd show up.

I'm kinda concerned about hp_leaves and SoO after rereading last night.

I had forgotten why I thought Oversoul was town, but rereading, I feel pretty good about him being town.

zachrules has posted quite a bit. I can't decide if I just disagree with him frequently or he's coming to the game with a different motivation.

I agree; I don't like sword either. Why hp leaves? Didn't he replace bungle (who you had a townread on)? What are you trying to say about zach (like, do you think he's scummy, null, what don't you like about him)?

But in a game where the death of one role makes it Night for the rest of the game...

@oversoul: What you want me to say about this? Probably he mistook it that death of the apocalypse role would make it night for the rest of the day? Well, both scum and town would make a mistake with this. I don't see the point of you bringing up this post.

I thought he was claiming that he was the guy that starts Apocalypse if killed. Am I misreading?

TAMMY

Come dance with me some more

It can be on a dancefloor not laced with mines this time

[Syryana]

@syrana: I think he meant since the apocalypse role make it forever night if the role died, therefore, town should have a fking OP role. If not, scum would just win.

W

Makes sense.

@syr: post your opinion of antangon?

I don't think we should lynch him. His role if true is pretty powerful and I think there are better candidates out there atm (sword of omens and fferyllt particularly, but many of my reads are stale which I'm attempting to fix). I'll give you a more detailed answer after some ISOs.

Even though he didn't give a reason, the timing of mrbungle's 2nd vote on me fit and even sort of anticipated later reactions.

I don't see this at all.

hp leave's unvote is equally unreasoned, and he's not interacted at all with other players and just focused (shallowly imo) on two of the current main issues: MattP and Antagon.

Upon ISO skim of hp, his unvote was when he replaced in. Why should he give reasons for unvoting from whatever his predecessor was doing? Why does that make him scummy?

The point about hp being shallow and only focusing on mattp/antagon isn't bad, but hp's thought process is pretty clear IMO. From what I've seen of scumHP (and don't ask me to elaborate, I can't), hp doesn't have a clear thought process as scum.

Are those your only two scumreads?

SYRYANA

I just woke up and haven't stretched yet. Something slow? Like a waltz?

[Syryana]

VOTE: fferyllt

[Syryana]

Indeed. And now I've seen your scumgame again.

Matt, the explanation must wait. The dinner bell is ringing and I must heed its clarion call.

[Syryana]

/inb4viprodsmeagain

Just got back from long drive, catchup/cases/stuff to come

[Syryana]

Catching up in this game will have to wait until tomorrow, blinding headache

I know I promised cases and shit, but I could barely read page 25, this ain't fucking happening right now

[Syryana]

Okay

*cracks knuckles*

Catchup and case time

[Syryana]

I think Syryana would be a pretty solid lynch.

His early game was really chaotic. He starts off attacking Tammy, pjo and ffreyllt. I think his let's fight Tammy-o post is over-the-top, and his read on Tammy flips between 66 and 77 for essentially no reason. He votes ffreyllt as he agrees with MattP that ffreyllt was lying, but it's not clear that ffreyllt was lying or that Syryana actually thought that ffreyllt was lying.

Zdenek. You were in that Nightless. You're also the only one here with a completed game with SyrScum (except Matt, but we kilt the shit out of him after a half Day so he doesn't count). Does what you wrote here match your experience with SyrScum?

Furthermore, it should be patently obvious that most of my early posting was reaction testing. E.g. the "Tammy flip" was a result of me aggro'ing the shit out of her and deciding her reactions were sufficient for a townread.

He pushes Eggplant, Matt, fery, Pjo as scum, then he turns around and votes Zach because of how Zach was pushing pjo. Since he had pjo as a scum read, he should have understood what Zach was getting at.

I knew what Zach was getting at. I didn't like the way Zach was pushing it. I have explained this already.

ffreyllt says that she thinks that pjo is town, and Syryana questions her read - but Syryana thought that ffrey was scum and his scum read Zach was voting pjo, so the fact that he asked this at that moment feels wrong. I'd feel better if he passed some sort of judgement about what was happening.

My read on fery has been evolving since I accused her of being scum in my first post (or was it the second? idk). The question was a step in that evolution.

He then writes a long paragraph explaining his votes: He was on the Whimsy wagon because of the scumslip (personally I don't think that it's reasonable to call it a scum-slip, so the fact that he does reads badly to be, but that's probably neither here nor there). In the rest of the post, I think he over justifies his Zach vote - accuses him of not scum-hunting, uses burden of proficiency, and tops it off by saying that he is sheeping Tierce.

Zach wasn't scumhunting. Burden of proficiency is not what I was accusing Zach of. Sheeping Tierce wins games, at least when Tierce is town.

Zdenek, that post

reeked

. Lots of IIoA, complete disregard for my scum meta.

So Antigon has posted 7 times since I asked him how he would flip and if his ability has a name. He's not responded. So he's moved into the if-we-don't-lynch-him-we're-idiots zone.

There's a decent chance of Tierce being scum with him. She didn't think that the slot was scum, defended it aggressively, and seemed to prefer the lynches of both MattP and ffreyllt when she requested a claim from the slot. So it reads like "hey, buddy with a good claim that could save you, I want to make sure that you get a chance to make it and I want to make sure that I get a chance to voice suspicion of you."

Does this mean an Antigon townflip would disintegrate your Tierce scumread?

My favorite constellation. <3

p-edit I'm kinda waiting around for the upcoming conclave about my scummitude before I vote again. I don't intend to help end the day before that happens. I especially want to see what Syr has to say.

Why do you care? If you're town, you ought to be lynching scumreads, my opinion of you be damned.

I'm liking Antagon even less now that he hasn't really done any real scumhunting since his claim. He left an indicator that he would be able to provide more content over the weekend but aside from talking about his claim... nothing.

Not really sure what I think of Matt now at this point.

Unvote: Vote: Hp [leaves]

On iso I don't like him... or his predecessor at all.

I'd be pretty happy with this day if it ended with an Antagon, Hp, or Amrun (If she doesn't come through with any content.) lynch.

I read the first line
then I read the second
Then I saw the vote
and my head exploded

Help me understand this, Zach. Why, if Antigon has given you nothing and you believe him scummier for it, are you changing your vote? What makes hp[leaves] a worthier lynch than Antigon?

I'm leaning town on ffery. I think that it's gone beyond anyone really scum reading her, but in reading through her games she's really slow and deliberate like this. I also don't think she reacts to a vote or two the way that some people do...don't think she's the type to easily rile up. In a couple of her scum games, she either didn't really focus on the game that in depth or aggressively pushed in a way that was superficial. So, I think the slow, cautious way of her giving reads is more her town play. I've been putting that off long enough and now it's been nearly a week since I read those games so I can't remember particulars.

This isn't why fery is scum. I'll explain why she's scum in my next post.

hp's lashing out without taking into account context is not attractive.

Agreed.

@soo: thats just sarcastic comment on pjovek's it is funny how you harped on it so much. Because so many people said they will post something useful and end up not posting anything. Thus, he tried to be sarcastic and put you in that group of people

One post, I could understand, maybe…but he kept on going trying to build it into something it wasn’t, and tried to justify it as a PL…
I don’t see that as just being sarcastic…

Anyway with the timer dropping down and time running out, I can see my vote is going nowhere….

UNVOTE:

Looking at viable options:

Antagon- Egg’s intro was odd..and Antagon’s claim seems convoluted, yet believeable…normally I’d prefer to wait on lynching him…
I will say that I didn’t care for his last post though:

Now that pjovek/Amrun made logical, valid points, I'm left with only one scumread.
VOTE: hp

What logical posts? Amrun has only 2 posts that could be considered content…#758 and #786, and I don’t see how any of those would be considered insightfully logical and valid …Can you please tell me where exactly you changed your mind on Pjo/Amrun?


HP[leaves] - the Bungle I played with as town was much more active and aggressive than he was here…Him and I went at it in DBZ Mafia We were both town in that game, but in that one he posted with actual thought content …whereas here, he did nothing but one-line posts, and flip/flopped on Fferyl for no real reason at all, which is a complete opposite of that… Fferyl was also in that game..This is also why I was concerned with her giving Bungle a town read so early… His play here doesn’t reflect that at all…hp[leaves] hadn’t done much to alleviate the concerns that I have for that slot…He votes Antagon, while saying Matt should be next…and then later follows up with “we can chase after SoO next”.

I’d prefer to lynch hp[leaves], as I am willing to wait on Antagon on the off-chance that he’s town (although I’d still like him to answer my question)

VOTE: hp[leaves]

I feel significantly better about you now.

I was in the process of making a reads-list, when I realized that two of the four in my scum pile are the main wagons right now. Two wagons on scum doesn't feel right to me for some reason. Must reevaluate. Anyroad, fery case inc.

Pedit: Amrun, did you read the conversation between me and Tammy before that "softclaim"? Because it's pretty apparent the "softclaim" is nothing of the sort(see my comment about lacing dance floors with mines) and the "SERIAL KILLER" was intended as a joke.

[Syryana]

Why do you care? If you're town, you ought to be lynching scumreads, my opinion of you be damned.

I care because my townread of you has gone stale and I'm trying to figure out if your misread of me is genuine or not.

Fair enough

That case on you will have to wait until morn, I'm fucking dead

I apologize to the lot of you for taking so long, vacation and sickness did not figure into my mafia schedule >.<

[Syryana]

I'm not really sure what universe you people are living in. Antagon flipped town, not scum.

That stands for you and for the missing Oversoul "pocket scumread on Tierce omg" read that has been eaten by tigers. You're probably both Town and it's so sad to see that you're utterly incapable of reading me when I'm Town. :hitoshrug:

Now excuse me, I have to go be a Jade

again

.

Tierce, you worry me. Who are your current main suspects?

I will present that long overdue case I owe you lot by night's end.

[Syryana]

I'm not really sure what universe you people are living in. Antagon flipped town, not scum.

Is this fake?

Poo knew fully well how cruel destiny could be. He was prepared for this; he had trained his whole life to best the rigors of mortality and become a monk capable of saving the world.

But he never knew how to communicate with people outside Dalaam, and so he was helpless to save himself when he was shoveled up by an angry mob and pitched over the cliff of the floating island.

--- Antagon --- Poo (from EarthBound),

Town Sharing Ascetic

--- Eliminated Day 1...

[Syryana]

Huh. I thought it was a flip indicative of his apocalyptic status. E.g. Poo dies, rises as the harbinger of the apocalypse. Especially considering we're in apocalyptic phase now.

[Syryana]

(Still earning that title~)

Such a smooth operator you are

[Syryana]

Okay, fferyllt case. Long you have waited, and I shall deliver!

Here's what I know about fery. She is, first and foremost, a trajectory girl. She doesn't explicitly townhunt or scumhunt; she watches people for how they react, how they get certain reads. For example, her analysis of Zach in #651 is an excellent example of how she hunts for reads; checks to make sure reads/votes/etc. match up with what the slots have been saying in previous posts. Long story short, she examines everyone's thought processes and makes sure they line up with what they normally do as town/scum (or barring a baseline with meta/experience/whatever, what she thinks they normally do as town/scum).

Now, given a brief understanding of how (as I see it) fery works as a player, here are the reasons I think she's scum:

• Buddying/Appeasing the hell out of me
  
• Her reads themselves have very little trajectory
  
• She hasn't been scumhunting, the scumhunting she's done has been very superficial (key point here, fery is one of the least superficial people I know)
  
• Fluffy content (highlights of which being scum theatre with Mattp)

Point numero uno: Buddying/appeasing the hell out of me. Here be some examples:

Spoiler: Yo buddies what up

1) Im happy you're townreading people but don't set a precedent for stupidity, syryana respects you a lot and if you keep doing that he may start making reads lists

Reads lists!

Town: Tammy, Tierce, Enomis

Probably Town: Zdenek

Not Town: Eggplant, Matt, fery, Pjo

No clue: Errbody else

I like your town list. I'd add mrbungle to the probtown.

withholding judgement on Pjo.

And you're town.

This is a combination of buddying/appeasement/superficial. She grabs my reads list, calls it good (at least for the townreads), adds mrbungle to the town pile and calls me town almost as an afterthought. Not only is there a complete lack of any explanation of any of those reads (see: superficial, more detail in the section designated such), she's buddying me by saying she "likes my town list" and appeasing by calling me town at the end there.

Syr looks town to me. Of his town reads, I feel like I have enough read of my own to agree that you are town and I'm trusting that he can townread the others.

This one's even worse. We've played together before and are hydraing currently, but I can't recall doing anything that would garner

this

much respect. She's essentially calling me town because my town list matches her town list closely enough for her to just assume I'm town. Yeah, no. "Your reads match mine therefore you're town" is sloppy and superficial as fuck, two things our dear fery is not. This is more buddying.

Him. I have a pretty detailed baseline at this point after playing 3 completed games...maybe more, I could be forgetting a game or two, and reading a few games on meta dives. We've also discussed a lot of mafia theory and approach while planning to play some games as a hydra. I am not absolutely certain I'd spot his scum game. But, I feel like this game so far is so well within the space of that baseline that I'm ok calling him town for now.

I'm not shy about changing my reads on people. If I change my mind, you'll know.

This is quoted here for a couple of reasons. First, you'll note she's defending her townread of me thanks to the three completed town games she has with me (BSG, Buzzword, Donner Party for reference) as well as discussions we had whilst hydraing. And yet look at her posts. Nowhere does she ever even hint at thinking I'm anything but town (she mentions her read on me is stale, but that's the closest she gets). No paranoia of me, no nothing. I've told her straight up in hydra convos that I like playing scum and take pride in my scumgame. In the three baseline games she played with me, in BSG her townread on me didn't come until much later. In Donner Party it came early, largely because of a fracas I stirred up regarding one of the other players and she justified her read fairly well. In Buzzword, she got a super quick townread on me thanks to an early miller claim by me and my reaction to a miller counterclaim shortly thereafter (that was a hilarious game, you all should go read it sometime).

Where's the catalyst for the townread on me this game? She's been asked multiple times why she thinks I'm town. She keeps dodging the question, until (and I know this post is out of order with the prior; the explanation makes more sense that way):

Syr's one of the lynchpins in my reads atm. I've played several games with him, though all have been town games, and I've seen a fairly wide range of town-Syr behaviors in the various games. From meta, I know that his scum game is not easy to spot, and it's possible I'm missing it here, but I kinda doubt it. For now I'm considering him town. Nacho seems to be influencing his game, and I think I am seeing some of that influence in his play this time - specifically the tempo of his dance with Tammy and his conclusion that she's town.

Well now. On the surface this seems to be a pretty reasonable explanation of why she thinks I'm town. Let's dig a bit though, and apply fery's alignment hunting process to it.

Reasons Syr is town: 1) I (fery) have played several town games with him and this seems like his town game
2) His dance with Tammy and consequent townread on her seems town

For the former, I have already more or less explained that my play here is not really indicative of my completed games with her. By her initial townread on me (#110) all I had done was flop around, trolling the shit out of everybody and flipflopping my vote all over the place. There was that unexplained reads list I threw out there too. Go compare my first dozen or so posts in the three town games she's been in with me to this one; you'll see why I think her townread on me is full of buddying and poo.

Now the latter point: the dance with Tammy. Fery claims that the tempo of our dance shows some of Nacho's influence and that my conclusion of Tammy-town also means I'm town. First off, the whole "Nacho's influence" thing is a load of crock. She doesn't bother analysing why I was trolling, but chalks it up to "eh, seems like Nacho's influence". Minus points for laziness, minus points for bullshit. Let's remember: fery's a trajectory girl. How did my read of Tammy go? Something like this is what you all saw:

Trajectory girl doesn't call me on that? Hell no. Several other people called me on that. Why is trajectory girl missing it? Cause she's buddying me, that's why. I'll get to why she's buddying me in a bit.

hp leave's unvote is equally unreasoned, and he's not interacted at all with other players and just focused (shallowly imo) on two of the current main issues: MattP and Antagon.

Upon ISO skim of hp, his unvote was when he replaced in. Why should he give reasons for unvoting from whatever his predecessor was doing? Why does that make him scummy?

It was a vote on one of the also-ran wagons. If the vote had been on the leading wagon, my first act as a replacement would have been to unvote if for no other reason than to ensure could catch up.

The point about hp being shallow and only focusing on mattp/antagon isn't bad, but hp's thought process is pretty clear IMO. From what I've seen of scumHP (and don't ask me to elaborate, I can't), hp doesn't have a clear thought process as scum.

Ok, good to know.

You'll be seeing this post again in a later part of this case, but I'm putting it here largely because she's doing the whole "Syry's word is law" thing again. She bleats some nonsense about hp [leaves], I contradict her, and she just accepts it. Lolwut? No questions, no "but Syr, what about this and this and this?" (pretend there are post links in lieu of "this"). She just kinda gives up on the read, like she's walking on eggshells around me.

I especially want to see what Syr has to say.

Pretending to care about my case in the hopes of appeasing me further. In her shoes, if I had someone that called me scum and kept putting it off and putting it off (how many times did I promise this before I did it?), I'd be all over their ass. She would be too. However, in this case she's just passively waiting. And waiting. And waiting. It's reactive (her scumgame), and she still doesn't want to get on my bad side.

^^ Town tell.

(scroll down, or check the OP)

The crowning glory of the buddying. We've discussed in multiple instances on types of towntells and fery knows full well I'm capable of faking such things (not faked in this instance, but nobody on this playerlist should be assuming that anyways). Instead of the proper reaction(are you for real dude?, see Zdenek, or even some kind of questioning as to what the fuck is going on in my head), we instead have:

I've tried writing this paragraph about why fery's buddying of me is scummy three times now, and I keep devolving into WIFOM. So I'm just going to say this: it is a plain fact she's buddying me and it makes me paranoid and distrustful of her.

Movin onward!

Fluff and stuff. Many of fery's posts are fluff inserted to provide the illusion of activity. Come, let me show you why...

Spoiler: Dandelions and Drama

Something happened between those two vote counts. 4% battery drain.

2. Battery-Powered Deadlines. Deadlines in this game (outside Apocalypse) are measured via a meter that starts at 100% and counts down each real-time day by a varying amount. The amount is based on true activity. If the meter reaches 0%, the Day immediately ends.

So 4% seems like not very much at all. I wonder if "true activity" means the battery drains faster or slower.

Irrelevant setup speculation.

She's now voting me, not Zach.

Pedantics. Doesn't actually respond to Oversoul's actual point about Zach/Tierce interactions.

You were going on about her voting Zach. I was just pointing out that she's moved on. /pedant

Still pedantics.

I am getting the feeling that whimsical would be replaced and we can't question him further on his post. Hurray!

Yep. And if it was just an unfortunate misread or something on whimsical eggplant's part, that's probably an overall plus. If not, the slot will at least be under scrutiny.

Scrutiny from other people anyways.

I hope you'll take my reads into account when I eventually flip. There are a lot of players I am unfamiliar with in this game. The ones I know, my reads may be useful to town.

???

So do you think my read of pjovek is wrong? I'm not really sure what you think about anyone else in the game other than whimsey and that's why I don't have a good feeling about you.

Then, I guess you haven't iso'd me. I agreed with the town part of Syr's first readslist. I added mrbungle and pjovik to probtown.

Good scum reads usually take time for me to develop unless someone I have a lot of meta on draws a scum role.

I feel like my bandwagon is probably mostly town-driven atm.

Completely ignores zach's challenge on her pjovek read. Diverts by talking about her slow buildup and pulls bandwagon stuff out her ass.

I'm quite interested in the votes and am avidly watching how my wagon develops.

And yet you're not talking to anyone on the wagon?

Anyways, you all get the idea. Now for the fun part: scum theatre!

Hey I just want to point out that we had a slow-ass posting day and our battery drained further than any other day so far.

So stfu about spam.

Re Matt, what's the odds that he's trying to save a powerful scum role with this performance?

Re Matt, what's the odds that he's trying to save a powerful scum role with this performance?

^scumpost^

Re Matt, what's the odds that he's trying to save a powerful scum role with this performance?

^scumpost^

befuddled. It seems to be something new every game.

Put your vote back on me. maybe you can save your scumbuddy.

In fact what he said:

1) Literally doesn't make any sense logically
2) Is fence sitting since he's not voting me
3) Is an opinion phrased as a question towards the audience to feign scumhunting and further push a mislynch

pedit: ???

Oh I'm sorry I thought I was voting you

VOTE: ffery

Do you feel better now?

I am not a he.

When I am ready to vote again I will vote.

speaking of pushing a mislynch, where's that case you never made?

Re Matt, what's the odds that he's trying to save a powerful scum role with this performance?

I was ON Whimsical Eggplant when I did this, your logic insinuates that I was trying to absorb the lynch on my scumbuddy who I was voting to protect a PR

What the fuck does that even mean

I am not a he.

When I am ready to vote again I will vote.

speaking of pushing a mislynch, where's that case you never made?

ITT ffery ignores the shit post he just made to ask a stupid question

Oh I'm sorry I thought I was voting you

VOTE: ffery

Do you feel better now?

Yeah I am sure you forgot all about putting Antagon at L-1.

Re Matt, what's the odds that he's trying to save a powerful scum role with this performance?

I was ON Whimsical Eggplant when I did this, your logic insinuates that I was trying to absorb the lynch on my scumbuddy who I was voting to protect a PR

What the fuck does that even mean

Yeah, nobody's ever heard of distancing.

I am not a he.

When I am ready to vote again I will vote.

speaking of pushing a mislynch, where's that case you never made?

ITT ffery ignores the shit post he just made to ask a stupid question

You have a lot of room to talk

In post 396, fferyllt wrote:
Re Matt, what's the odds that he's trying to save a powerful scum role with this performance?

^scumpost^

I thought you and antagon were the same person when I posted this

But you shouldn't take that to be true because that would ruin your shit, illogical excuse for me being scum

Yeah, nobody's ever heard of distancing.

So I just want to get your theory straight for the books

MattP knows Antagon is a scum PR and wants to protect him but at the same time distance so within 3 posts he votes Antagon with a mundane post that isn't inherently scummy, then decides within minutes to fakeclaim in response to Tierce and troll her and act scummy to move the wagon over to myself, and then within the same page jumps off of Antagon back onto you immediately which defeats the point of distancing and in fact would draw us together even more

Is that the story?

Question of the day:

Would any rational town player naturally come up with this theory?

In post 396, fferyllt wrote:
Re Matt, what's the odds that he's trying to save a powerful scum role with this performance?

^scumpost^

I thought you and antagon were the same person when I posted this

But you shouldn't take that to be true because that would ruin your shit, illogical excuse for me being scum

Interesting how the thread cleared out after we got into it.

What does that have to do with anything

What does that have to do with anything

I'm not sure.

The troll was me acting confused about how lynches work

If you think that I did that for towncred then fine but stop being moronic

Ok, so this was a genuine reaction, I think. All that capslock was bullshit.

Ok, so this was a genuine reaction, I think. All that capslock was bullshit.

Lolwut? So I'm genuine town but lying at the same time?

No, I don't think you are lying, not with that reaction.

Okay. Let's sum that exchange and give some context. Mattp and Tammy were in an argument because Matt claimed VT at a completely arbitrary point. Fery wades into the conversation, asking the arbitrarily inane question of "do you[tammy] think that matt is trying to save a scum PR with his performance", implying that fery thinks Mattp is scum (even though her most recent post regarding matt calls him null). Matt jumps on this and the above exchange subsequently spawns. Posts #399-411 contain pretty blatant posturing from both parties. Near the end, Matt gets distracted by Tammy again and fires off that his claim was a troll. Fery, in a curious inversion of her original implication (and pretty much in disregard of that entire exchange), calls Matt town for this. Matt, rather than pouncing on this, merely

accepts

this totally contradictory reasoning for Matt-town(especially since fery just spent the last 30 minutes or so calling him scum) and

completely ignores

this entire exchange when someone finally wrings his reasons out for fery-scum over 100 posts later in #541. Scum theatre, ladies and gentlemen.

Okie doke, I'm sort of compressing points two and three because they're so interlinked. What don't I like about fery's analyses scumhunting you ask. Well my children, I SHALL DELIVER! (and I'm not putting this in a spoiler, this is the crux of my argument and you can fucking jolly well read it)

I've been thinking about that newbie game. I assume pjo gambits no matter what alignment he is.

fiery, pjo, tell me about pjo's scum game, or at least point me to the ones that you are talking about.

I haven't seen his scum game. I replaced into a newbie game that he had earlier replaced out of. The first 3 pages of that game were hilarious and Pjo IMO played a significant role in tripping up one scum player who just could not let go of his play or his replacement.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=27639

It was a perfect town win.

I haven't seen his scum game.

So why do you think that he gambits as either alignment?

I was asking mrbungles because they've played together elsewhere.

But, if he doesn't gambit irrespective of alignment he'd be awfully easy to spot as scum. So yeah, I think he gambits no matter what his alignment.

This was the first question mark I got from fery. Look at the progression here: she sees pjo gambiting, calls it null. When queried, she pulls a town game out and shows pjo doing wild shit(completely unrelated wild shit, mind you) as town. She then makes the assumption that the gambit is null as it would "be awfully easy to spot as scum". She doesn't query pjovek as to what he's doing. The meta she pulled is sketchily related to this (pjo wasn't gambitting in that game afaict, rather piling on pressure to people in early game). She caps it all by making an assumption about pjo's play thus far that is both lazy and based on a bad assumption in and of itself (e.g. that pjo is competent scum, which she knows nothing of since he has no completed scumgames on site).

So we have fery making lazy and superficial assumptions, right on the first pages. Moving right along.

I like your town list. I'd add mrbungle to the probtown.

withholding judgement on Pjo.

And you're town.

Takes and copies mah townlist, adds bungle for no apparent reason. She posts reasons, but not for ~200 posts or so.

aaand probtown on Pjo.

Again with the no explaining things.

One post by whimsical, with the might-be slip. This game isn't exactly on fire with posts, but that's still pretty low involvement.

That's where my vote would go given the current state of the game.

Up to this point, fery has not mentioned Whimsical in any way. No town read, no scum read, no comment on the slip, nothing. She is going with the flow, not voting, but calling a publicly acceptable target for a future vote.

I find mrbungle's paranoia about me refreshing and it's part of the reason why I think he's town. This is the first game we've played from the start, and I think if he'd had only a few posts to read instead of dozens in the dragonballz micro game he'd have had similar misgivings.

Finally, an explanation on bungletown! And it has to do with... bungle's paranoia? *checks bungleISO* Yeah, totally not seeing that. Not seeing much of anything from bungle's ISO, for that matter. This was made up from whole cloth.

Why pjovek is scum:

1. Anti-town proposal of the mass universe claim.

2. Vote on Sword of Omens looks more like trying to look like he's doing something than actually doing something.

3. He made up a false reason to be suspicious of Sword - that Sword promised to continue lurking. When I called him out on it he kept pushing it.

4. When I questioned him about what he thought of policy lynching in this game rather than just answering he attempts to cast suspicion on to me for trying to instill fear and paranoia about the wagon. Now he's asking me why I chose to appeal to emotion, which never happened, and he's refusing to point out what he's talking about, and deciding to accuse me of not reading.

I thought your theory is that I am scum and buddying pjovik up.

This came from out of nowhere. Zdenek mentioned her buddying Pjo twice (#73 and #216), yet she reads a "why pjo is scum" post and somehow her mind goes to "but I thought you thought I was scum buddying pjo?"

So, town vibe from Zdenek, too, it seems.

Scum need to come out and play.

Zdenek says he doesn't think she is scummy for her pjovek read, and BAM! Free townread for Zdenek. Hmm...

I accepted Tierce and Enomis based on not seeing anything particularly scummy looking in their posts at the time, but have since firmed up my own thoughts

Tierce is pushing people for explanations - well, some people. She hasn't pushed me for anything but reads. Her concern about the whimsical eggplant bandwagon looks townish-MS since there's an expectation that if a person doesn't come back and answer questions they will be replaced. MS-acclimated scum on the other hand might be more interested in pushing that bandwagon through.

Enomis' quick jump on Whimsical's potential slip looks either hyper-vigilant town or possibly (lower likelihood imo) scum who has had similar thoughts or conversations. But, the concern when this bandwagon took off, the check on other postings and pointing up the possibility of a quick mobile catch-up looks like a town player worried about a bandwagon suddenly picking up an unusual amount of steam, and trying to apply brakes.

Translation: "I sheeped Syr's reads on the two, but I went back and found townie-looking things in their ISO when you all asked me about it".

So, my counter-to-the-prevailing-winds reads of mrbungle and pjovik.

They both play on a site where game days are short - 48 hours, I think, and although majority lynch is often the format, from what I've seen reaching 50% + 1 does not end the game day. Players can run the bandwagon beyond that threshold and back down.

I learned mafia on sites with 12-24 hour game days and plurality lynch. At MS, due to still not quite getting all the nuances of majority lynch ending the day, I tend to be either way overcautious about bandwagons or sometimes leap with alarming speed on a fast moving wagon. If you want examples of games where I've done one or the other, let me know and I'll provide links. Overall, I'm tending toward over-cautious at MS, but want to add back some assertiveness because I believe I'm more effective that way.

Anyway, that's a bit of a digression but it's important because it's why I am pretty good at reading players from similar backgrounds. But, I have some concern that I default to thinking the background-influenced style is town.

The MS norm of inactive players being eventually replaced is not a universal thing. pjovik plays where that assumption is not valid. IMO, pjovik's attitude toward the whimsical eggplant wagon is shaped by his mafia background, and I'm reading it as town in this context. I also am reading his gambiting as town. In the newbie game I linked and mentioned earlier he gambited with some posts that look anti-town on the face of it, quickly rounded on the people who reacted, and had a dramatic effect, ending what is fondly known as rvs in these parts.

8 parts digression, 3 parts pjo, 0 parts meaningful scumhunting. She spends 75% of this part of the post talking about the background that pjo comes from but fails to tie it in to how that makes him look town. In her analysis of pjovek she talks about how his attitude is shaped by his background and that his gambit is town as shown by her meta. Yet the crucial links are missing: why does his background indicate his attitude is town? Why does the meta show his gambit is town? (a couple of anti-town posts turned around is a far cry from a mass flavor claim gambit IMO) There are many words, but two thirds of them are a digression and one third is a repetition of her earlier post w.r.t. pjo.

re bungles, as I've said, the paranoia doesn't surprise me since this is our first time starting a game together, though I guess it does disappoint me a little. I've had the impression that I'm an easy read for him and others who who play the game offsite, which has been kinda refreshing. His low participation would be worrying me, but when I let him know about this game in sign-ups he mentioned that he would not be around much if the game started up soon. And it did start up soon.

Another repetition of this fabricated paranoia towntell. Fery is still operating on a townread from two hundred posts ago (generated at best on a shaky inference or at worst on an outright fabrication), yet she shows no interest in following up on that read or refreshing it. She claims bungle's lack of activity is slightly concerning but she seems content to leave it at that (<-- town fery? nooooope).

I still think Antagon looks bad and I am not sure what to make of his claim. SOO bothers me. And I don't like hp_leaves nearly as much as I did mrbungles.

This reads/concerns with no followup is getting to be habit-forming. Calls out concerns on hp, SOO, Antagon, no attempt to actually divine their alignments.

I'm kinda concerned about hp_leaves and SoO after rereading last night.

I had forgotten why I thought Oversoul was town, but rereading, I feel pretty good about him being town.

zachrules has posted quite a bit. I can't decide if I just disagree with him frequently or he's coming to the game with a different motivation.

More of the same. Also repeats a fair amount of 602.

***********************************************************************************************

Even though he didn't give a reason, the timing of mrbungle's 2nd vote on me fit and even sort of anticipated later reactions. hp leave's unvote is equally unreasoned, and he's not interacted at all with other players and just focused (shallowly imo) on two of the current main issues: MattP and Antagon.

This is perhaps the number one reason I am so convinced of fery-scum. I thought her stance on hp leaves was curious to say the least, especially considering she had a townread on his predecessor mrbungle. This reasoning for hp-scum is incredibly superficial and downright un-fery-ish. Look at her reasons for hp-scum: no reason for an unvote, hp hasn't interacted much with other players and has instead focused on Mattp and Antagon, the two main topics of discussion when hp joined in.

This is incredibly, incredibly superficial (yes I'm repeating myself, fuck off). She's taking some things HP has done completely out of context: the unvote was HP's first move when replacing in, that's not freaking scummy; hp's concentration on the major issues at hand is perfectly acceptable considering that as of #777 he hadn't even bothered to read the game yet. It was patently obvious when hp replaced in he hadn't read the game as yet, but fery jumps on the "he's just concentrating on the major shit at hand he's a scumbutt". She's not even bothering to consider the whys and wherefores of hp's actions but only skimming his ISO and grabbing scummy things to shove at me in response to my question as to why she suspects hp. When I called her out on her reasoning, here was her response:

hp leave's unvote is equally unreasoned, and he's not interacted at all with other players and just focused (shallowly imo) on two of the current main issues: MattP and Antagon.

Upon ISO skim of hp, his unvote was when he replaced in. Why should he give reasons for unvoting from whatever his predecessor was doing? Why does that make him scummy?

It was a vote on one of the also-ran wagons. If the vote had been on the leading wagon, my first act as a replacement would have been to unvote if for no other reason than to ensure could catch up.

The point about hp being shallow and only focusing on mattp/antagon isn't bad, but hp's thought process is pretty clear IMO. From what I've seen of scumHP (and don't ask me to elaborate, I can't), hp doesn't have a clear thought process as scum.

Ok, good to know.

Her reasoning on the unvote being scummy is very weak and she doesn't object at all to my point about hp's thought process. If hp [leaves] were a legitimate scumread, she'd have questioned me, pushed me, challenged me,

something

. None of this meek "Ok, good to know" shiot. I should have pushed her more on it then.
************************************************************************************************

I also would like to note #651. I'm not going to quote it directly, but notice after all that trajectory analysis fery performs in that post she fails to actually say whether zach is town or scum.

Jesus H. Bloody Christ. That took me

forever

to make.

TLDR

: Go read the damn bullet points at the top. At least try to skim the wall, bare minimum read between the stars.
VOTE: fferyllt
PS: I will cheerfully swap my vote to Mattp if fery lynch doesn't gain traction, this should be obvious from the section on scum theatre

[Syryana]

Claim
Although I think you've roasted in the oven too long and well you have to be the lynch
I think that most recent post looks town though

Catching up properly now
but didn't hp already claim vanilla? Or am I just crazy?

[Syryana]

I'm not going to refute it bit by bit before I'm actually awake (and maybe not even then...it reminds me of another case that was mostly accurate in terms of stuff I posted, but was describing things that clearly aren't scum-motivated since I wasn't scum).

What parts aren't scum motivated? Why?

Day 1 I was reluctant to let go of my town impression of mrbungles, though hp's posts bothered me because the reasoning seemed shallow. He's offered virtually nothing to the thread but scum reads on Antagon and MattP, and his reasoning for tying them together, as exemplified in post 890 are weak. Well, virtually nothing but those two reads and some lackluster negging of the cases for voting him, rather than actual refutation.

Your reasoning on hp-scum is equally shallow and your scumread on him originated almost 300 posts before his "weak reasoning". So this "reluctance to let go of bungles-town" is a crock of shit.

Why are you buddying the fuck out of me this game? The only time you ever got remotely close to this level of buddying was in Buzzword. Even then, you never once appeased me (as opposed to a half dozen times or more here) and I was damn near confirmed town from RVS in that game. Why here and now?

Why did my dance with Tammy make you think I was town?

He won't take responsibility even for his own stances. I no likey.

Also MattP is townz.

Why is MattP townz?

2) fferyllt
3) implosion
6) hp [leaves]
7) Oversoul
9)

sword_of_omens

MattP

Can we agree the scum are all in here? I'm not asking for you to simplify the list more, Zdenek, I'm asking if you think I missed anyone that could be scum

Scum are all in here, yes.

2) fferyllt
3) implosion
6) hp [leaves]
7) Oversoul
9) sword_of_omens

WOOOOSSSHHHHHH

so, apart from katsuki and myself, this winds up being a list of people who i don't have townreads on.

Then i iso'd katsuki, and i now have a townread on katsuki.

So yeah. I actually like this list.

You don't have a townread on yourself? Intriguing.

All caught up now. And yes, hp [leaves] did claim vanilla.

post_id=5053220 time=1372061807 user_id=10128 post_num=893]Just to speed things up, I am a vanilla townie for all intensitive purposes.

Antagon flipping scum really implies Matt being scum so get him today or tomorrow.

VOTE: mattp

Flavor?

[Syryana]

I'm quite disliking how this day is progressing post-tigers.

Elaborate please? (Unless you still hate me in which case pretend one of your townreads asked you this)

[Syryana]

Oh I didn't feel like answering you before as I had you down as scummy.

There's not much to elaborate though in this case?

Yeah, I know why you weren't answering
I was just curious what in particular you didn't like about the way toDay is going.

None of them are scum-motivated. Because I am not scum.

Re HP, my reaction to his early posts was unimpressed, with the exception of (surprise) 551. In retrospect, those first 5-6 posts look better in the light of Antagon's flip, but foreknowledge is a distinct possibility.

Never mind. Tierce actually hasn't voted once this day. I mistook her vote from yesterday as one for today.
Tiere why have you been so useless today

The irony.

[Syryana]

That was a troll flip. Look at the bottom of the post, Antagon was scum.

And I really have no suspects right now. In case you haven't noticed, I have been crazy busy elsewhere on the site. Tonight was supposed to be Not Busy with having read the game today, but tigers are why we can't have nice things.

This? I already responded to what I thought the flip was. As for you having no suspects/are busy, I was in process of asking you this:

If a small, adorable puppy were to come to you and say "Tierce, if you don't vote right now my heart will flutter and die", who would you vote?

[Syryana]

I'm only mean in theory! I would never make such a cute little creature go through that.

I'm still waffling on hp [leaves] myself. I'll elaborate a bit more after me meal.

[Syryana]

I'm still waffling on hp [leaves] myself. I'll elaborate a bit more after me meal.

I did some VCA. One thing that's making me uneasy about the hp lynch is Antagon's actions. I've not meta'd Antagon so I don't know how he plays, but I find it unlikely that he would bus at L-2. Now if this is multiball that alleviates the concern, but I'm not 100% convinced hp is scum in any case. I'm not allowed to elaborate, but I have recently seen hp-scum and this just doesn't...

feel

like hp-scum. I know this is a super-lame explanation but I just don't know how to support this scratchy feeling in the base of my skull.

I get what you are saying. But, that was a different sort of dynamic, replacing into a game what? 3 days before nightfall with a ton of content to respond to? The interaction with mrbungles in this game was early, and there was very little content from me to even analyze. I don't always start games in slow motion, but I am more likely to do so when I don't know anything about many of the players. In the dragonballz game (where I also didn't know most of the players), even with hundreds of my posts, he had me as his weakest town read iirc.

With a handful of my posts in this game at the time, I was not at all surprised by his vote or by the way he put it down without support other than saying it was a serious vote.

You. Why are you ignoring my questions?

[Syryana]

Were there questions in that gawdawful wall you posted? Or did I miss a post?

Why are you buddying the fuck out of me this game? The only time you ever got remotely close to this level of buddying was in Buzzword. Even then, you never once appeased me (as opposed to a half dozen times or more here) and I was damn near confirmed town from RVS in that game. Why here and now?

Why did my dance with Tammy make you think I was town?

You've also been saying things like "that wall is gawdawful" and "there is no scum motivation for those things [in the wall]" for a while now. Why don't you actually rebut my points instead of saying generic "that was bad and you should feel bad" things? All you've done about it thus far is call it crap and mention your reads on Zdenek/SOO/hp, with only the Zdenek justification having anything to do with what I said.

Isn't that the time you would want to bus? To make your partner look like a vulnerable Town counterwagon?

Possibly. It doesn't feel like a bus to me though.

And this occurred to me as I was slashing zombie faces: hp [leaves] has claimed vanilla.

Actually I'll wait to finish this thought until hp flavor claims.

Pedit: The fuck you say, there's a big friggin spoiler section in my wall entitled "Buddying".
Pedit2: Are you for real, implosion?

[Syryana]

It's like the buzzword game never happened or something. IIRC our reads in that game were close from the start and got closer as time went on. I also called my hydra partner off when he started to go after you early on day 1. You weren't a constant fixture in that game, which kept our interactions fairly minimal. In this game you were heavily involved in the first few pages and then disappeared for quite a while.

In Buzzword, I claimed miller. I got counterclaimed, and that's what your townread resulted from (and the interactions that happened as a result). When pressed on it, you gave a pretty in depth read as to why you thought I was town.

In this game, at the point you called me town, I hadn't done fuckall. That reads list I posted? I gave that for the sole purpose of irritating Mattp (which should be obvious in context). Some of the reads were serious, some were not. This should have been particularly obvious to

you

, since you had

already

noticed (according to you) Nacho's influence in my dance with Tammy (and thus that I was still in troll mode and my reads list should have been taken with a grain of salt). What do you do? You jump on that list like a damn survivor on a life raft and add another townread to it just to make it obvious you weren't totally sheeping me.

Even later in the game, when I sort of vanished and you admit the townread on me is going stale, what do you do? You sit back, wait for me to return. You don't pressure me. You don't talk to me. You make no effort to determine if you initial townread on me is valid. You just kinda sit back and wait for developments to happen. You have not, at any point in this thread, made any serious attempt to discern my alignment. There hasn't been some kind of game changing catalyst to give you that strong a read in this game like there was in Buzzword.

I have a tendency to start in one game practically where I left off in the previous game with players I feel like I can read. If I don't get an immediate town sense I'm cautious. If I do, it's more like day 3 or 4 of the old game than day 1 of the new one to me.

Well, considering that the game we just got out of (Buzzword) had Nacho-scum in it, and the first thing you think in this thread is "Hey, that dance with Tammy looks Nacho-influenced", why the fuck am I an immediate townread? But I'm getting off point here.

You remember the BSG game. My early confidence that I could read orcinus and trust his view of the game state led to my eventual day 1 lynch.

This does not remind me of orcinus in BSG, because there is a significant difference in being sure you'll be able to read me at some point (what happened then) and townreading me and otherwise making no effort to discern my alignment (what's happening now). In BSG, you set Orci off because you townread him early in the thread. You, he and buldermar then got into a 30 page circle jerk about each other's alignment, and it was transparently obvious that each of you were changing/evolving opinions of each other throughout the thread.

My problem with you stems not from that you had an early read on me, but rather that

you sheeped my reads list and have been buddying me ever since.

You waltz in, sheep my entire list, add bungle and oh by the way Syr is town too. You justify yourself much later, after a half dozen people scream bloody murder at you. Your ISO shows no thought process; it's purely reactive. When I specifically ask you to explain yourself and/or rebut my case, your responses have little to do with what I originally ask or the points I made. Your analysis has for the most part been horrendously superficial.

I should be more cautious in my reads if for no other reason than to avoid this sort of situation. But, I'm not and probably won't improve much given where my game emphasis lies.

You being uncautious with your reads is not the fucking problem here.

[Syryana]

post hoc stuff. The initial read was almost instantaneous. Back to the Donner party game. I decided you were town quite early in that game, too, but coming to that game right off BSG I didn't make a huge deal of it, though I am pretty sure I had you as town in my first abbreviated list of reads.

And in Donner Party, I didn't have a problem with it, because you exhibited a thought process.

Your alignment has been on your sleeve. I hear that you have a scary scum game, but I guess until I get burned in a game where you look town to me and aren't, you are going to be town as far as I am concerned. I don't spend a lot of time on players I have strong town reads on, except occasionally to defend them if they are racking up votes. That has not been an issue for you in this game. But if you recall, I did defend Pjo when he was collecting votes. You came back into the game, and basically did things that couldn't have been better at re-convincing me you're town if you knew exactly what I look for.

That game thread was overflowing with invective between my partner and another player, to the point where it seriously impacted my ability to interact with the players that I was scumhunting. There was very little left over for interacting with town reads, unless I was trying to convince them to vote/change their votes. Your vote was where it needed to be exxcept when you were trying to prevent a premature hammer. Given the rate of posting, there was not much to say.

You don't spend time investigating strong town reads, sure. But you don't totally neglect to interact with them either.

And this is where I say think back on the Donner party game. I took your reads as a starting place in this game. In that one at the end of day 1 I had a couple scum reads, a couple town reads, and a ton of null reads. I reached out to you in that game to try and dialog about players, but was getting a lot of flack for posting in conversational mode. In this game, since I can't get past your looks-scum filter, I'm not trying very hard to work with you any more.

With the exceptions of sheeping my reads list and responding to questions I directly put to you(or related to my case on you), you haven't tried to interact with me at all. Not once. You've called me town, you call my reads good, said I town told, etc. But not once have you done anything along the lines of "Syr, what do you think of so-and-so" or

any

kind of interaction.

I think a town read of you that you don't feel is justified is a huge part of the problem.

It got my suspicions started, sure. It was that hp [leaves] analysis that really got my gander up though.

[Syryana]

You know what makes your analysis of her hp leaves analysis more relevant?

An hp leaves flip.

Noted.

VOTE: hp [leaves]

[Syryana]

Tierce, do I have to start threatening puppy doom scenarios again?

[Syryana]

Tierce, do I have to start threatening puppy doom scenarios again?

I was going to hammer in the coming hour. It was the one thing I had to look forward to after putting my corner of the room in order.

And you took it from me.

You monster. Now I'm

still

stuck with housework and all I have to look forward to is a potential scum flip. How is that supposed to make me feel?

Aww. Here.




You can hammer tomorrow.

[Syryana]

Sup. Reading stuff.

[Syryana]

Enomis was the vig. There is no SK.

Zach was killed by Enomis, Enomis/Matt were killed by mafia. Now we can stop with setup spec.

Tierce is town. Tammy is town. Amrun is probably town (though I want more elaboration on this "selectively applying scumminess" thing, she and Tierce can catfight or something). SOO is probably town.

Not liking Oversoul. You should know my opinion on fery by now(though, I may be changing this, Matt flipping town blew a hole in my scum theatre idea).

We now have two people (implosion and Zdenek) saying Mattp was killed because of his list. I don't like this, because it's obvious WIFOM.

Haven't decided what to think on the Katsuki wagon yet.

[Syryana]

Your misuse of vocabulary aside, it is an equally valid possibility that Matt was killed because he was completely off base and scum want us to waste lynches on his list.

However, it is unproductive to continue analysis of his list and possible reasons as to why he was NK'd.

Fery, who are your current scumreads?

Tammy, let me know when you get back and are available.

[Syryana]

So, my brain is on fire and I can't think straight

I'm just going to sheep Tammy
VOTE: implosion

If I wake up before deadline and don't feel like shit I'll reevaluate, see you all tomorrow

[Syryana]

I really should have pushed this yesterDay. Sorry guys.

VOTE: fferyllt

Oversoul is also in my list of suspects. I really need to figure out Katsuki and SOO. Someone on the Katsuki wagon (this means you, Zdenek) explain to me why you were voting her.

[Syryana]

Why DIDN'T you push it yesterday, Syryana?

A combination of a splitting headache and me rethinking a lot of things.

[Syryana]

So what're you thinking atm, Amrun?

[Syryana]

I decided not to push it because I was reevaluating you after the Mattp/hp flips.

I have also decided that I was initially correct.

Why aren't you trying to find scum?

[Syryana]

It all had to do with his REASONS for suspecting ffery. He was "most" concerned with her superficial read on hp leaves, and when I noted that an hp leaves flip would be relevant to her alignment, he hammered. But then when hp flipped town -- which SHOULD have made him go "aha!" or at least address it -- he backed off and played it cautious. It's instant tonight so he couldn't even have gotten distracted/forgotten.

I don't understand why. I'm still waiting for an explanation.

An hp[leaves] scumflip would have made me more convinced. I didn't like fery's scumread on him because it was superficial and felt fabricated. Fery-scum is (I think) too cautious to pick a random townsperson and make such a terrible case she can't back up. When she was scum she preferred to townhunt and kill scum by POE, largely because she's awkward at legitimate scumhunting when she's scum in a single team setup. The hp[leaves] scumread and consequent townflip threw me, because I figured she was going for the easy shitty looking bus rather than a terrible read on an arbitrary townie, which is obvious and terrible (two things fery is not).

I have since decided that I was initially correct in my fery-scumread because I realized that in this game she's doing exactly that: getting a bunch of townreads to snuggle up to and then getting on lynches by POE. The simple fact she's not even attempting to scumhunt makes that obvious.

I did not get distracted or forget; it took me a day or so to wrestle with it and various MeatWorld concerns prevented me from following up on it before deadline.

[Syryana]

I've been wrestling with that question myself. Gut says three scum total (meaning two left) but there's this squeaky voice in the base of my skull saying "there was a vig, there might be four scum!"

[Syryana]

So at the time you weren't thinking anything?

To Syryana.

Huh?

Hint: it goes to credibility.

I think there are 3 scum total, so 2 left alive.

Why? Who are your scumreads and why?

[Syryana]

Syr, earlier you said that sleeping Tierce wins games, yesterday you sheeped Tammy over Tierce. I'm trying to figure out what you were thinking at the time.

Tierce was being weird this game and her reads haven't been so hot. I trusted Tammy over Tierce when sheeping last night for that reason.

Katsuki is one. I'll tell you my second and third at a later time.

Okay, I see more bluntness is required.
WHY
do
you
think
Katsuki
is
scum
?

I still think that ffery is town. Syryana your scum read on ffery is reminding me of in th dinner party when you went after someone day one for not doing something you expected them to do.

There is a world of difference between my read on fery now and my read on MeowMix then. I made a case on MM not responding to a joke I made from a game we'd played shortly before. My case on fery now is a lot more detailed. To be quite honest (sorry fery), if fery is in fact town this is far and away the most blatantly awful game I've ever seen her play. The only thing that even comes close is the popcorn game (in which she was also scum).

Why are you so convinced fery is town?

Why did you all think someone else was a vig when enomis flipped with half the word in his role?

There is even more obvious evidence for Enomis-vig than that. I don't understand why people are still acting like it's some kind of relevant discussion.

[Syryana]

What does the middle quote have anything to do with it?

[Syryana]

Sryana I was gonna answer you in full when I had time.

You have enough time to talk about inane things like setup spec and avatars but not to tell me why you're voting Katsuki?

[Syryana]

No lol. Was it relevant? Guessing yes. >.>

Zach was "sublimed". If you click the link in Enomis' flip, the first word you see is "sublimed".

[Syryana]

Sryana I was gonna answer you in full when I had time.

You have enough time to talk about inane things like setup spec and avatars but not to tell me why you're voting Katsuki?

Do you think Katsuki is town?

No.

No, I'm not throwing anything out the window.

I still think ffery is scum. I just have unvoted and of course you should be wondering why but I have my reasons.

I have thought about it and decided to

VOTE: syryana

Even though he does have more of an excuse for not pushing ffery yesterday than "I had a headache," they are still pretty weird. (She was coming up with a superficial scum read on her BUDDY? What...?). But more importantly, he was pressured yesterday about it, didnt answer, and then today, said "I have a headache" and only later came up with some semblance of a response.

Piecemeal explanations are always more likely to come from scum.

I still prefer ffery for scum out of the pair but REASONS. If both of this pair is town I'll eat my boot.

I said multiple times that yesterDay I was reevaluating my fery read and I explained why. If you're not going to read my posts (you and Zdenek are both guilty of this), that's not my problem. Speaking of

shitty

piecemeal explanations, what are your "REASONS"?

Oversoul is as town as can be because of Egg copying his town read on MattP.
If Pjo was trolling like that as scum, I think he'd have stayed in to see it through.
I'm still reading fferyllt as town, but not for anything solid, she's just playing like town.

So, surprise surprise, I'm Tarharlandiur or what the fuck ever how you spell that. We all knew he was in the game, and I am him.

I am not, however, VT.

I use my ability as an intelligence officer or something like that (no formal ability name) to do flavor investigations. Essentially, I choose some sort of source flavor and am returned with the role names (not the roles themselves) that are in the game in that source flavor.

For obvious reasons, I need to claim my results last. This is literally the ONLY utility of my role, so I simply refuse to do it until everyone else has claimed their role names.

I popcorn to Syryana.

I've got words for you, but I'll save it for after we finish massclaim.

I am Sanae Hanekoma (from The World Ends With You), VT. I give unwarranted life advice and consume coffee in equal proportions whilst serving drinks at my bar.

Popcorn Zdenek.

Syryana - I'm not *convinced* ffery is town, I just think she is. I said before that there were only two things I felt sure of in this game and that was Zdenek and Tierce being town, with Tierce being who I was most certain of. I'm not really sure about your reasonings for sheeping me over Tierce. You said that Tierce had bad reads this game, but she didn't have any worse reads than me. My vote has been on town this entire game, so I'm not sure why my reads seemed better to you than Tierce's. Not only that but I have been admittedly very distracted since mid day one and haven't been giving my full attention to the game. And since we're disagreeing on ffery, why do you trust my judgment?

I get that you think fery is town, but I was asking

why

you think fery is town. As for why you over Tierce, it was largely a gut call. I was in pain and didn't have the ability to do analysis of who all had what read when, so I went with who I felt was townier.

[Syryana]

The scumteam is Katsuki and sword_of_omens.

[Syryana]

Oh yes, and
VOTE: Katsuki

[Syryana]

Because if there were three the game would be over.

[Syryana]

Also the fact that no three people remaining alive in this game make sense as a scumteam with each other.

[Syryana]

Which post?

[Syryana]

[Syryana]

Because I didn't realize fery was town until toDay.

[Syryana]

I didn't think she was scum, either. Which meant fery got priority.

[Syryana]

Fery, where the fuck are you? Come talk to me.

[Syryana]

So, Katsuki/SOO team. Whatcha think?

[Syryana]

I didn't think she was scum, either. Which meant fery got priority.

But there was basically no chance she was getting lynched yesterday,

Why do you think that SoO is scum?

POE, largely. You, Amrun, fery are town. Only one of {Katsuki, Oversoul} is scum. I also didn't like his "guys, you should unvote and stuff". Feels like he's reaching for towncred (and he's not actually doing anything else).

So you want to talk about who's scum?

Why do you have Oversoul as town and SoO as scum?

Also, fuck you I voted Katsuki yesterday mostly because I listened to you yesterday.

Sorry. I have Oversoul as town largely because I have Katsuki as scum. Only one of them can be scum IMO. And I think it's Katsuki. See above for SOO scum. Why, are you thinking Oversoul-scum?

[Syryana]

Well, I'm damned certain you and Amrun are town. Slightly less certain of Zdenek, but his recent posting has reassured me anyways. Oversoul I don't think is scum; the main reasons I can recall off the top of my head are "Why would he go to all the effort of trying to get Tierce lynched D3 only to NK her?" and that his play doesn't remind me of his scum play in Xylbot.

That leaves Kat and SOO.

[Syryana]

BFF?

[Syryana]

And why does Tammy's flip confirm Zdenek?

[Syryana]

EXPLOSIONS in America.

[Syryana]

I am having trouble getting past this, too. If I were just looking at Amrun with no Pjo posts factored in, I'd be suspicious as fuck not least because of how useless the investigations seem to have been. Not that I'd do a great job of picking out universes. But, I am not scum, so the n4 investigation has no scum motivation that I can see, unless she boxed herself in on day 4 by asking for suggestions.

I originally thought that she was scum, particularly since she's only ever been in one Vi-modded game that I can see and by and large Tarharlindur is a scum role in Vi games. However, my "Amrun is likely town" scenario came from this.

Flavor cop in this scenario has zero utility for scum. Scum really only need to find the one role: Enomis. As he was from Ar Tonelico (not Ar Telonico, bad Vi, no puppy), and there are no other characters from that universe, scum couldn't have been given any information regarding whomever had the apocalypse role that would be useful for a flavor cop (otherwise, herp dead guy derp).

Therefore, the flavorcop must be a fakeclaim if coming from scum. Given pjo's "let's claim universes!" gambit, in order for Amrun to be scum this series of events must have occurred: 1) Flavor cop fakeclaim must have been created/taken from Vi pregame, 2)Pjovek must have gambitted with said fakeclaim at the start of the game, 3)Amrun, after replacing in, must have claimed said fakeclaim during massclaim. While it is not outside the realm of possibility that this has in fact occurred, I'm putting this in the "if they did all that and pulled it off this well they can bloody have the fucking game and I'll nom them for scummies later". Therefore Amrun is town.

If Amrun is town, it follows that fery must be town. Fery knew Day 1 that pjovek was the flavor cop (of some

flavor

, ucwutididthur). Flavor cop in this game essentially negates fakeclaims. If fery were scum, no fucking way would Amrun still be alive. None. I would even posit that scum-fery would have pushed for Amrun to be killed over Enomis, given Enomis (afaict) didn't crumb PR, whereas pjo/Amrun did (and fery picked up on it). Even assuming the other scum overruled her on N1, Amrun still would not have survived to now.

@fery, did you ever read the Xylbot game?

[Syryana]

Aye. Even if a scum member has an Ar Tonelico person, using the flavor cop would (as Amrun claimed it) just reveal everyone from that universe. If the scum were given any kind of info about the flavor of the Apocalypse role, finding that role with the flavor cop would be overpowered (Apo role dead N2 at latest). Without that information, flavor cop is completely useless to scum.

[Syryana]

I still don't think Oversoul's play here is like his scumgame in Xylbot(in Xylbot he was more interested in looking town than being town, this seems more like Townversoul to me). I'm waiting on fery to get back to me on it to see if I'm crazy or not. She should be around later.

So in answer to your question, yes I'm still leaning Katsuki.

In the meantime I'm going to do some extended ISOs (probably will occur later this evening) on both Oversoul/Kat.

PEDIT: YOU! ANSWER MAH QUESHINS

[Syryana]

I have no plans to hammer. But, if Oversoul is not scum, somebody will.

Did you finish reading Xylbot?

If you think OS is town. Reread day 1. Look at the issues that arise. Look at the timing and content of Oversoul's posts. It should make you want to lynch him.

I'll look at this later.

[Syryana]

I have no plans to hammer. But, if Oversoul is not scum, somebody will.

Did you finish reading Xylbot?

I've skimmed it and I've gone over his ISO. I am not sure what you mean by concerned about looking town. He had a few walls full of quote-and-response, that haven't been as prevalent in this game. And it looked like he made a point of not avoiding his scumbuddies. There were quite a few comments made in Tierce' and serra's direction.

Not a lot of time right now but, in short from what I remember of that game he was more passive, inquisitive but not aggressive. He wouldn't push on a target unless there was a good deal of public opinion condoning it (i.e. he only ever pushed main wagons). Here he's more aggressive and it just seems to me he's more like he was in that game where he was town (ongoing, you know the one). Am I wrong?

[Syryana]

Given this

Syr, would like your thoughts about this:

@Oversoul, Syr is trying to convince me to not vote you.

You've been at L-1 for a while. I think that if you are town and even one town player is on your wagon, you would already be hammered.

And this

Oversoul (3) ~ Katsuki, Zdenek, Amrun
Katsuki (2) ~ Oversoul, Syryana

Syryana (0) ~

(Amrun)

Not Voting:

fferyllt, sword_of_omens,

(Zdenek)

[/ooc]

And this

--Deadline is 07:30 EDT on July 6, 2013.

(This is your last day!)

[/b]

My opinion therefore becomes this


VOTE: Oversoul

[Syryana]

Well that sucks. I did Touhou project and returned that thing Katsuki claimed. Aya smarmybastard or whatever.

I think, given who is left, it's probably Syryana and soo, but I'm much more confident about Syryana.

Fos: Syryana

P-edit: that's creepy as hell katsuki

There are two major problems with this post.

1) I've been your top scumread since like forever (two, three Days now?), and yet you still have failed to investigate me. You seem perfectly satisfied to sit around calling me scum without ever actually pushing the read.

2) I did some research into Aya Syameimaru. She's a main character in one of the Touhou Project series, a newspaper reporter etc. Given the obvious flavor of Antagon-scum (Misery from LoZ for those of you that don't remember), assuming the flavor cop returned Aya I'd be willing to assume that Katsuki is town. This creates a problem. If Katsuki and Amrun are town, the scumteam becomes SOO/fery, which is impossible since Amrun is still alive. Therefore, Amrun is scum.

Haven't decided on the partner yet (though the fact that SOO is alive still as well is interesting considering he claimed JOAT variant).

VOTE: Amrun

The scumteam is Katsuki and sword_of_omens.

It's pure PoE for SoO?

I don't really have much of a case either. Just a feeling that his play in this game has been different from the town game we played.

Twas pure POE, yes. Though since then my major premise has failed, so he may not necessarily be scum (though I'm still leaning that way).

[Syryana]

Ffery, does it really make sense to you in the difference of how he pursued you before and after the hp leaves flip?

That's the crux of my scum read on Syryana. His reasoning there just reeks of scum trying to cover up inconsistent behavior by pretending it is consistent.

Hmm, this happened on what, Day 3? Yes, that's right, I hammered HP on Day 2, got a townflip, reevaluated/flaked Day 3, you went after me on Day 4. I gave an explanation, you didn't like it, that's nice.

Now, if your scum-read on me were anything but hot air, you'd have investigated me. Instead (according to you), you wasted your N3 investigate, used it on fery N4, and used it on Katsuki N5. I'll pass over the fery/no investigate, because fery makes sense and I'm not wasting time in thread debating whether your lack of investigation and subsequent excuses are valid or not. My major point of contention lies in the Katsuki investigate.

Throughout this entire thread, you've never so much as voiced a suspicion about Katsuki. YesterDay, when not getting my lynch (you even left your vote on me till pretty late in the Day), you baldly stated you'd definitely choose Oversoul rather than Katsuki:

Personally, though its obvious who I would rather lynch, it's an easy choice between Latsuki and over soul to me (Oversoul).

Also FYI I am v/la this whole week but I have my phone. I will read/respond to things but cases etc probably not happening.

VOTE: oversoul

I'm equally happy with an Oversoul lynch and Sryana isn't getting traction.

You really wanted that Syryana lynch, but Oversoul is fine if you can't get it. Okay. So you can't get your preferred lynch (me), I hammer Oversoul, he flips town, and you

investigate Katsuki

? If your read on me was legit, you clearly would have investigated me last night, since I hammered a friggin townie (again). Instead, you investigate/clear Katsuki, which is a scum read for me, a town read for sword, and a null read for you and fery (I'm assuming null since neither of you is interested in presenting opinions). In point of fact, the only people that voted/suspected/pursued Katsuki as scum were Oversoul and myself. Why, then, would you investigate someone that

your top suspect tried to push for a lynch

?

The scum motivation is obvious. You investigate and clear someone who has been known to sympathize with a Syryana lynch. She's in fact probably town; you clear her, she likes you, she voices opinions of wanting to lynch me, you agree, she votes, you and partner hammer, gg.

You called me scum for "attempting to cover up inconsistencies as consistency"? Irony.

Pedit: Lol. You're full of shit. You settled for Oversoul over me as a compromise. I hammered the fuck out of him and you investigate Katsuki? Yeah, no.

[Syryana]

I was actually going to change my investigation to you yesterday, Syryana, but kept waffling and then I ran out of time. I still think Katsuki was a good place to put it because I saw Katsuki as the most likely lynch today. I think katsuki's town. Therefore, I think lynching Katsuki will be VERY BAD. Confirming his role (as happened) doesn't mean all that much anyway.

Lolusrs? You wanted to clear Katsuki because she was likely going to be the lynch? Bullfuckingshit. See prior post's point about you investigating your top suspect's attempted lynch target.

The rest of the time, I was using my investigations things I deemed more important, as my suspicion of you didn't happen until later on. But ignoring the fact that I investigated ffery to try and sort out the situation between you/fferyz. Ignoring that key piece of information is pretty scummy.

Oh, like investigating nothing?

And you're acting like it's a cop investigate. It's NOT. It confirms whether or not people are telling the truth about the flavor names. Anyone could easily be telling the truth but still scum. The only utility off my role is attempting to catch someone in a lie, but with such a game, there's nothing that says they have to lie. Painting it as a guilty/innocent doesn't make any sense. It's an extra assurance that someone gave the correct role name and nothing else.

And you're ignoring how obvscum Antagon's flavor was. The rest of them probably have similar flavor (i.e. villains from their respective universes), so they'd pretty much have to fakeclaim to not be found out at massclaim. Your attempt to obfuscate how powerful your role is in this scenario is noted.

[Syryana]

Syry can you sum up your ffrey read for me?

My read on fery is currently in a state of flux. I find myself unable to decide whether she or SOO is Amrun's partner. Still leaning SOO, so that would mean fery is town.

And I DON'T have a scum read on Katsuki, but I DID early on in the game.

In the 107 posts you've made this game, precisely one intimates you even harbored suspicions of Katsuki. And in that one post (#1170) all reasons pointed out were eaten by tigers (both the reasons you suspected her as well as the reasons she made you feel better). All in all, tigers or no, that post essentially says "eh, not sure if scum or not, but we can lynch anyways". Not exactly a resounding scumread. Then it disappears entirely until you get some heat for this ridiculous night action you supposedly took. So, you investigate someone you hinted you had suspicions of once over someone you've been trying to get lynched for three Days? Lolno.

You're ignoring several key things.

A) n3 I didn't not investigate on PURPOSE. It was an accident because instant night.

B) I didn't know your flavor then so I couldn't have investigated you anyway!

C) When I investigated ffery, my scum read on her was much stronger than my scum read on you.

Trying to paint that as scummy is soooo bad. Like, let's just ignore how my role works, shall we?

Damn, you caught me. I'm totally ignoring things that have nothing to do with my point. Oops.

1)Already pointed out I'm not going to argue about why you did or didn't investigate N3. Irrelevant.
2)A valid point (which I already admitted if you bothered to read my posts), but besides the point. My argument revolves around the fact you investigated someone totally at odds with your in thread reads last night.
3)See 2, but remove the clause calling the point valid.

And if I wanted to leave people alive to vote you, Syryana, why do you think Zdenek died?

He was my biggest ally to making you dead. I was hoping to swing him that way yesterday in fact and it was a close call.

Is it a coincidence that he's dead today? Fucking no, it is not.

Of course it is no coincidence. Zdenek would not likely have been interested in a lynch on me toDay, considering his final post was "I'm going to get your ass dead tomorrow for that Amrun vote, sword". When you combine that with the fact that Zdenek was the towniest player alive at that point, well. Furthermore, you only need one vote to get the mislynch on me. So tell me, why would you kill the counterwagon to town when you can kill the near universal townread when either will (according to you) want to vote for your desired lynch?

Sure but the idea that I, as scum, kept katsuki (you) alive just to lynch Syryana is utterly nonsensical.

How on earth did you even come up with this?

[Syryana]

Also, Syrana is correct…scum would have to have fake claims, given that Antagon flipped as “Demise”… So her playing it off as “it doesn’t mean you are town” isn’t really valid..and the fact that she didn’t investigate her top scum read last night doesn’t even make sense…why would she worry about a Katsuki mislynch, if she thought she could catch scum THAT night? Again, if she really thought the whole “it doesn’t mean you are town” thing, then how would that apply to her saying that she was worrying about stopping a mislynch on Kats? It wouldn’t…
Also noted is that Amrun has not been quick-lynched and neither has Syryana..
So either Syrana is scum on Amrun’s wagon, or Amrun is scum on Syr’s wagon…and i really doubt it's the former...
I’m running out of the office in just a few minutes to take some customers out and will check in a bit later (well before deadline) and place my vote on Amrun..

Hallelujah, someone reads my posts!

Syr is a big question mark in my mind. I've read him as town in every single game we have played together (with the exception of the game where I was scum and knew for sure he was town) and I have been correct. He's mostly had correct reads on me. Playing as a hydra does mean that we've gained some insight into what the other thinks, but doesn't post, and that could be contributing to his pretty much ongoing suspicion of me. And could be contributing to my increasing paranoia about him.

When did you start getting paranoid about me? Last I looked I was your top townread. What happened?

But, if either of them are town, then surely a 1-2 quickhammer would have already happened. So, is it 1 scum? If it's two, are they unable to coordinate?

Are you being deliberately obtuse or what? The only way a scum quickhammer could occur is if both Amrun and I are town. If it is scum on town (which most everyone seems to believe and who is what alignment is currently the raging debate) then one scum is voting a townie and one townie is voting a scum. So if that is the case it is impossible for a scum quickhammer to happen as there is no townie voting a townie.

As for the coordination thing, considering you, Katsuki and SOO have all posted at some length since the me/Amrun crossvote, it is highly unlikely that some scum combination of two of the three of you couldn't engineer a quickhammer (assuming of course that both Amrun and I are town). Katsuki and SOO were posting roughly around the same time yesterDay, and I know you're around practically 24/7 so you could work with either of their schedules.

I'm most likely going to vote for you or Amrun. I don't know which yet.

Any lynch that is not either Amrun or myself is not happening toDay. We don't have leisure for diversions at this point.

Syryana, I didn't investigate Katsuki because I had. Scum read on him. I investigated him because I had a TOWN read on him.

Still, during the tiger attack, I attacked Katsuki as scum. It didn't last terribly long.

Soo, I DON'T think flavor names clear anyone but people are treating it that way and I thought it would be best to throw my weight into protecting Katsuki. To be honest, I expected a large push on Katsuki today. Not sure if its me that waylaid it but either way I am pleased. If town can't be prevented from lynching a town read, I don't even have a chance to lynch my scum read.

This makes even less sense than investigating Katsuki because you thought she was scum.

[Syryana]

As much as Syryana is scum, he's right. No lynch besides me or him happens today, period.

Reach for that towncred, reeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaacccccchhhhhhh

When did you start getting paranoid about me? Last I looked I was your top townread. What happened?

By default, you are. That doesn't make it a strong town read at this point.

I can't see voting you, though.

I want to hear why SoO chosse zdenek to protect on night 4.

Thank you for dodging answering the actual question. Why are you getting paranoid about me?

Pedit: I believe Vi is either running out of Apocalypse pictures, or telling us to get the fuck on with it because the game is almost over.
Pedit2: Trolololol, confscum. Your case is OMGUS and not liking something I did 3 Days ago. Feelin the ropeburn already?
Pedit3: Holy shit
Pedit4: aaaaaagh stop posting

[Syryana]

I suspected you far before you ever suspected me, Syryana. Saying that its omgus is the worst thing I've ever seen.

There you go with not reading my posts again

Part 1 of your case: I don't like Syry's talkin stuff bout fery
Part 2 of your case: He's voting me, he must be scum. We call that OMGUS.

Thank you come again

Pedit: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Syryana]

A) no. You're confirmed scum because neither of us is dead yet, not because "you voted me."

B) omgus has never actually been a scum tell.

C) not committing omgus anyway.

I laughed out loud

Thanks for the entertainment

[Syryana]

What?

[Syryana]

.....

You really don't want to bus Amrun, do you?

[Syryana]

But seriously, Katsuki's involvement today doesn't worry you at all?

His only real line of attack was about Amrun posting in another game earlier in the day than she first posted in this one when day 6 started.

Katsuki's involvement toDay does not concern me in the slightest. Your concern is that me vs. Amrun is town on town. For that to be the case, the scumteam must, from your perspective, be Katsuki/SOO, yes? That is impossible, given Amrun-town, as Amrun's first act toDay was to clear Katsuki's role. Given the Antagon flip and the nature of Katsuki's claimed flavor (her character is a main character in Touhou Project), Amrun's flavor cop result essentially clears Katsuki.

Thus, if we have Amrun/me/Katsuki/you as town, that leaves sword. Two man scumteam with a vig/flavor cop (this is of course is assuming SOO is fakeclaiming since we're assuming SOO scum)? Yeah, no.

So in a town v. town scenario as you propose, Katsuki must by default be town. However, given the circumstances, the Amrun/me interaction being town on town is impossible.

[Syryana]

That sucks

[Syryana]

actually if amrum is scum then katsuki or I must be her psrtner, no? "confirming" our claims?

Quite so. The question becomes, which of you is it?

That is, however, a question for tomorrow.

Amrun must have some sort of flavor ability. Maybe it would have helped locate the Armageddon triggering player.

Possibly. I don't think speculation on what Amrun's role might be will be helpful at this juncture, however.

[Syryana]

I'd like to hear more things from Katsuki. Otherwise I'm pretty much done.

Wait a bit, see if they come back. Otherwise, vote.

[Syryana]

===========[]
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And might I recommend this gif?

[Syryana]

You are happy to end the day now, Syr?

I'm not holding out hope for Katsuki to show up in the next six hours, so yes.

[Syryana]

I know what you mean.

[Syryana]

I would've shown up. I did get sidetracked by dota though and forgot about posting earlier.

Vis probably not awake ill post my thoughts in about 20mins.

I look forward to this.

[Syryana]

Also how ballsy would you guys be to powerbus each other in LYLO?

That would be incredibly ballsy. Like, Duke Nukem level ballsy.

What do you think of the Day's events? Which lynch would you have supported if you were here, mine or Amrun's?

Pedit: Disregard this until you're done posting things, didn't realize you were going bulder style on us

[Syryana]

No problem. Let me know when you finish catching up, then we can talk.

[Syryana]

It's a double edged sword. I'd personally like to know what you're thinking and have it out there, but I can see why playing your cards close to the chest is a good thing atm.

Up to you.

[Syryana]

I'll read the conclusion in the morning. Good night.

[Syryana]

Vi, mad props for the game! This has been the only game that's kept my interest in the last few weeks, and considering my dying desire to do anything other than mod, that's saying something!

Scum, well done. Pjo did an incredible job Day 1 and Amrun did amazingly as well as the replacement. SOO, nice job lurking your way to victory! Dead thread approximately exploded when you didn't immediately hammer fery. We all figured you actually believed you were town or something.