Marvel Avengers Alliance - Game over

[Chandra Nalaar]

Vote: displaced

Oops, I seem to have displaced my vote!

[Chandra Nalaar]

I get it, it's just stupid.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Intriguing.

VOTE: bulbafenix

[Chandra Nalaar]

push push push

wagon wagon wagon

[Chandra Nalaar]

Yates and umbrage are not looking particularly town. I don't know how you could possibly think that accusation was serious when you had barely if at all (not checking, on phone) posted beforehand. Umbrage getting a town read from the overreaction is similarly mystifying. But we can deal with that later. We only have a week to make this wagon happen.

[Chandra Nalaar]

That's an antitown decision

[Chandra Nalaar]

Mine's bigger.

[Chandra Nalaar]

So what? Why am I supposed to switch now?

Also, I did not choose Bulbafenix at random.

[Chandra Nalaar]

So what? Why am I supposed to switch now?

Also, I did not choose Bulbafenix at random.

Are you an Arc Angel alt?

Frankly I'm somewhat insulted by this comparison >.>

@Fenix: Why, because I want to get as much reaction/content/stuff out of you as I can before Bulba shows up, of course. I think it will help me get a read on your slot. It's probably not working, but hey, at least I'm pulling us out of RVS.

[Chandra Nalaar]

So what? Why am I supposed to switch now?

Also, I did not choose Bulbafenix at random.

Are you an Arc Angel alt?

Frankly I'm somewhat insulted by this comparison >.>

@Fenix: Why, because I want to get as much reaction/content/stuff out of you as I can before Bulba shows up, of course. I think it will help me get a read on your slot. It's probably not working, but hey, at least I'm pulling us out of RVS.

Ahh. I can dig it. But then again, you gotta remember that Bulba and I are very... Interesting as far as a hydra goes (in our opinions on things). Hence the signature that we carry. So, mind filling me in on your thoughts about the Bulba head of this hydra?

-Fenix

Now now, that would be telling. I'm trying to be sneaky, remember?

I can accept Yates' explanation. Feel better about him now.

[Chandra Nalaar]

helo?

Hi pidgey. Are you gonna do an RVS vote or nah?

What's it to you?

[Chandra Nalaar]

This isn't going to get me anywhere, is it? I might as well put my vote on scum.

VOTE: Umbrage

[Chandra Nalaar]

o god umbrage is in this game lol this is gonna be a wild ride

Not for long, don't worry.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Hi Yates, Nero, PV, and Thad, its good to be playing with you guys again. And you too pidgey.


I dont like this series of posts:

That's an antitown decision

Not really, I think pushing a wagon on the over reacting dude will give us more info no?

So where is your vote on the over reacting dude?

Ops forgot

Vote Yates

Forgetting to vote? Ehhh... Someone who was serious about this scumread would not be "forgetting" to vote, it sounds to me like he is making this up.

Vote: ZZZX

Trying to get more info /= Getting a scum read

In another way I am triyng to get us out of RVS, eh?

In my ~3RD game is really acted like this guy when i was town. And it is interesting

also just saw Kid A post, I dont think you actually posted a reason for your vote? Are you just simply sheeping? The last time I checked that IS a scum tell.

[Chandra Nalaar]

2/10 would still lynch

[Chandra Nalaar]

2/10 would still lynch

is this regarding me or pidgey?

also do I know you?

You.

I'm going to try to refrain from answering questions like this one when possible.

Also to whoever asked, i feel that going out of his way to just mentiona point anout something without really commiting to a read was what made me weary of displaced

That was me. I didn't think displaced was trying to smear anyone.

My impression was that displaced merely wanted to make a post

. It isn't like mozamis was the only player that displaced could have chastised for making a gut decision based on a posting style. For example, Aunt Jemina made such a decision on PeregrineV. Anyway, I would have characterized displaced's post as a nothing post - did not reveal any suspicions, did not press anyone, and did not particularly contribute to the discussion. There are several players that fall into that category currently. It is the weekend, though. Personally, I'm going to give them a couple more days and then revisit who is contributing and who is coasting.

Does the bolded not mean anything to you? Who posts for the sake of posting?

[Chandra Nalaar]

OK guys I'm back.

Will read what I missed but can someone explain the case on me? I don't find it even logical


It is to scum's advantage to push wagons?

Isn't it?

don't do this, it makes you look desperate

inb4 scum coaching

I wasn't going to accuse you of coaching, but now that you did it yourself, it sure does feel like you're scum with not-ZZZ. Why else would scum mindsets be so close to mind?

It's amazing how far one can go in the RVS with people 'randomly' not managing to place a second vote on a given player.

You could have fixed this, deary, by voting one of the players already voted at that point in time.

That's probably why I was voting one of them at that time, sweetie-poo dearie, and had done so quite quickly as soon as the opportunity presented itself.

I know it sounds like a stupid point but it actually

does

have too many smilies and its disconcerting. It feels false/trying to appease.

I'mma gonna be in trouble this game.

So... noticing that someone is trying to hyper-meta and subsequently pointing that out isn't scum hunting to you? Conversely, care to share which of pidgey's posts looks like scum hunting to you? I checked his ISO. It's short. It's also pretty devoid of anything I recognize as scum hunting so it really begs the question about how you arrived at this determination...

No, I don't find pointing out the hyper meta to be scumhunting. Functionally you were attacked and defended yourself. Defense isn't scumhunting. I don't find this act scummy either, defending from an attack is pretty null, but it's not scumhunting. You rolled in and defended yourself and then spent some time trading barbs.

I would say his iso is about 50% scumhunting, and I feel like you know this because when you quoted his iso you cherry picked the front half and ignored the back half. I found him giving early town reads, clarifying a scum read without prompting and poking at someone to all be indicitive of scumhunting. No, it is not a town tell to follow to the ends of the Earth, but it is scumhunting and is certainly enough effort to have the read I expressed on him.

Why do you have such issue with this read that you're attacking so aggressively?

It is to scum's advantage to push wagons?

It is to scum's advantage to push wagons that are not on them or their team.
It is to town's advantage to push wagons that are not on them or their team.
One side has a bit of an easier time knowing which is which.

so you understand that emoticons, excessive friendliness, and terms of endearment like "sweetie-poo dearie" will be seen as scummy, yet you amp it up and make a mention of how you're going to be in trouble this game

You're drawing attention to yourself, so then you can say "oh no I'm not scummy, that's just the way I post". Why? To get people off of pidgey?

One thing's for sure, what you're doing is anti-town, and it seems delibrate. Explain yourself please.

Maybe I'm confbiasing but this is both a silly direction and a silly reason for it.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Squirrel Girl is town as fuck.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I've been catching scum left and right looking for people that fabricate reads with no substance. Where's the substance on this read, Chandra?

I have a gut full of raging fire.

[Chandra Nalaar]

HEY PIDGEY WHERE'D YOU GO I WANNA POKE YOU SOME MORE

Squirrel Girl is town as fuck.

well I can tell you're going to be a big help

Hmmmm, which snarky reply should I choose? "You'd be surprised " or "I can tell you're going to be scum"?

[Chandra Nalaar]

Umbrage- Im not caling you scum because at the moment i really dont have any real read on you, and no reason to call you scum. I do hwever called your read on me shit (yeah only that single read on me)

My reason is that the one game i played with you, you and I were town, and you also called me scum RIGHT OF THE FUCKING GATE WHEN I HAD CALLED 3 SCUMS ON MY FIRST 3 SCUM READS. That was on disney villian mafia. So yeah, granted one game might not be enough to make a judgement out of you, but from my experience you fucking suck at reading me and you are the biggest tunnel vissioner ive probably encountered. And the fact that you got on your "scum read" on an RVS Drunk post of me which was fucking super cool is indeed fucking stupid.

So yah.

I pretty much agree that squirrel girl calling me a super scum hunter for my first posts is weird lol dunno if its town or scum but it does look like trying to get allies and getting on my good side? Mostly because for some reason people like nero and others keep asking other players for reads on me which is p. cool i like being in the spot light.

^town

Can you feel the walls closing in yet scum?

[Chandra Nalaar]

My reason is that the one game i played with you, you and I were town, and you also called me scum RIGHT OF THE FUCKING GATE WHEN I HAD CALLED 3 SCUMS ON MY FIRST 3 SCUM READS. That was on disney villian mafia. So yeah, granted one game might not be enough to make a judgement out of you, but from my experience you fucking suck at reading me and you are the biggest tunnel vissioner ive probably encountered. And the fact that you got on your "scum read" on an RVS Drunk post of me which was fucking super cool is indeed fucking stupid.

^town

Can you feel the walls closing in yet scum?

I don't think this enough to give him a town read. Especially since it is a direct ad hom attack against a person calling him scum.

In what universe is that ad hom? The Land of Paper-Thin Skin?

[Chandra Nalaar]

2/10 would still lynch

is this regarding me or pidgey?

also do I know you?

You.

I'm going to try to refrain from answering questions like this one when possible.

Why avoid answering questions?

-Fenix

Chandra... Mind answering me? I prefer folks not to dodge me...

-Fenix

It is as our squirrelly friend indicated. Though my motivations are probably different from her own.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Yes, it does. I'm avoiding questions that have anything to do with my main account, because I wish not to be associated with it at present.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Yes, it does. I'm avoiding questions that have anything to do with my main account, because I wish not to be associated with it at present.

Oh for fuck's sake, fenix. Respect their right to be an alt. Do you think their answer to knowing you or not will actyually advance the game state in any way, or give you insight onto their alignment?

I give zero fucks (count it, 0) to this being an alt or if I know them or not, that's not the issue. I asked 1 simple question, 'tell me your thoughts on the Bulba head of the hydra.' That, respectfully, gives nothing away in my opinion. It's just thoughts, because I am simply curious, since I know Bulba has more time to dedicate to playing this game than I, what they THINK of that head. (thoughts on his play style, posting style of walls, etc)

The fact that they are using the 'i'm going to avoid these sorts of questions to avoid conflicting with my main,' makes me uneasy as hell, because it's an excuse that can be used as a crutch later on down the line imo. And avoiding me, only makes me more headstrong to keep picking till I get an answer.

tl;dr, I'm fucking paranoid.

~Fenix

The question I was dodging was Umbrage's. I didn't even notice yours. Obviously my behavior demonstrates that I have played with Bulba before, so I see no further harm. I think he's a strong player who I'm not going to be very good at reading. But I will read every damn word of those walls trying to.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Y'all really like walls, huh? You'll have to excuse me if I don't join you in that endeavor. Not yet, anyway.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I'd also like to note - he was "trying to make my argument look as silly as possible" when my arguemnet was - Pidgey and Yates are null.

THIS IS SCUM THINKING.

Is it not too blatantly scum thinking, though?

SERIOUSLY WHY THE FUCK ARE PEOPLE VOTING YATES

HE'S WRONG AS SHIT BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE HIM SCUM

It doesn't make him town, either. It makes him really fucking argumentative and annoying.

I cannot actually believe we just posted like 4 pages about this pidgey thing. I'm trying to give a damn about it, but I. Just. Can't.

[Chandra Nalaar]

@Josh:

Why aren't you voting?

@Chandra:

Did you just imply it is so scummy it is town? Has that ever worked out for you? I mean that gives scum the oppurtinity to be blatantly scummy and get a town read from you for it. It seems a little naive to me.

I just thought it was a stretch to read so much into it.

Yates are you saying im fake hunting in those first 7 posts, not counting the obviously charizard part? Or not hunting?

I'm saying you weren't hunting yet [at least not to the extent that SG should be able to give you a Town read for it]. To me hunting is a process that allows people to find scum [or Town] - which is separate from simply stating a read. While I can't find a legit definition of scumhunting, this is from the Townie page:
"traditional scumhunting methods -

analysis of actions, intent

, voting, previous posts, etc"

Not super helpful but the bolded is what I would be looking for to determine if someone was scumhunting versus making random reads/faking reads.

Could you possibly just stop arguing about pidgey, it's making my eyes bleed.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Gonna do some isos and consider moving my vote tonight. Need to reconsider my reasons for voting Umbrage as well to determine whether I still think they are strong.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Really? I didn't think it was any good at all.

It's also quite a stretch to call it a case. It was at best a demonstration of one contradiction. I've learned from the past that a contradiction does not necessarily indicate scum, and I happen to think it's not nearly as dramatic a change as it's being made out to be.

Apparently I lied about getting to iso-land tonight.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I honestly want to just start tunnelling the next person who keeps talking about this.

Pidgey was mixing metaphors. It's supposed to be "throwing shit at the wall to see if it sticks" and people are confusing it with mudslinging because of his word choice. Now shut the hell up.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Hey displaced, do you have anything at all to say that's not about pidgey?

[Chandra Nalaar]

Did a quick skim of most of the non-Yates/SG substantial posters and a couple lurkers too.

Townreads: Fenix, Josh, Thad, Nero, ZZZX?
Scumreads: jklash, Kid A

None of these are strong, and I'm not counting those I already had a read on (i.e. pidgey is still town)

Umbrage's early posts still bug me, but the later ones are okay. Is it bad that I want to put my vote somewhere useless?
I may have to actually figure out if Yates is scum, even though it sounds about as pleasant as carving my eyes out with a rusty spoon.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Oh, Rufflig was supposed to be on my scumread list as well, but then I forgot.

VOTE: Rufflig, only major wagon I support.

[Chandra Nalaar]

BulbaFeniz : Let's give you the benefit of the doubt that you were just trying to get a reaction to get a better read on this slot..

See, folks, this is what mudslinging looks like.

I was just about to say that I'd be willing to express reasons for any of the reads I just gave (or have given before) upon request.

You're right, I'm not trying very hard to get my scumreads lynched right now. Mostly because none of them are very strong and I'm hoping something better will strike me as the day goes on. Don't worry, when I'm ready for the day to end, you will damn well know it.

I'll pull up what I was thinking about those three shortly.

[Chandra Nalaar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: pisgey

I like rufflig's case on pidgey plus pidgeys reaction lately makes pidgey look scummy to me.

jklash was 90% agreement re: this vote seeming opportunistic.

also just saw Kid A post, I dont think you actually posted a reason for your vote? Are you just simply sheeping? The last time I checked that IS a scum tell.

unless you have a reason for me doing it that involves me being scum its not a scumtell

This reads like scum cheekiness.

Unvote

@Kid A

Mind explaining why you've voted the way you have so far?

he is more concerned about telling everyone how town he is than finding scum

This is rich coming from someone who's not scumhunting either.

im sheeping this wagon because it is better than anything i have come up with

VOTE: pidgey

And this isn't a reason or really even an agreement. It also attempts to give the illusion Kid A is doing anything whatsoever, which he is not.

[Chandra Nalaar]

We only have a week to make this wagon happen.

Why do you want a bulbafenix wagon? Could I interest you in an Aronis wagon? If one has an awesome character then one doesn't consider trading for the worst Marvel character.

It wasn't when you made the vote and pushed for it.

^this was weird and illogical

@pidgey: Interesting. Would you say displaced is attempting to smear mozamis or mozamis' read on me?

At first, I thought this looked like trying to get pidgey to do your dirty work. However, you proceed to argue against pidgey in the following post. Calling it "interesting" first appears to me to be a case of cognitive dissonance and/or light trapping. I tend to think townies don't plan their posts/trajectories ahead of time.

Ruffig, why are you voting for me?

So what about Kid A? Why am I not pressing him?
Another excellent question! He stated that his character name is 'Wolverine'. Such unforced disclosures early on almost always come from town. I've not run across a case where a scum did this, but it is possible so almost always. Anyway, that disclosure led to me not being interested in Kid A, today.

The "let me ask myself a question" rhetorical device rubs me the wrong way, even though in general I don't object to the point.

Ok. Are you scum?

Apparently, you didn't figure it out. That's ok, just pay attention to displaced - he caught all of the problems with Pidgey's posts that I was picking at.

VOTE: Pidgey

I just don't think pidgey looks scummy at all until you squint really hard trying to make it so.

In my opinion, displaced's post is in no way or form throwing dirt on someone. When I pressed pidgey on this, his explanation changed to this:

Also to whoever asked, i feel that going out of his way to just mentiona point anout something without really commiting to a read was what made me weary of displaced

That is a dramatic change in pidgey's reason to vote for displaced.

As has been established, even if you thought pidgey meant what everyone apparently thought he did, this was a reach and a half.

Why did you vote for pidgey if you were talking about displaced?

Because displaced covered these points (and more) in his posts about pidgey. pidgey's initial case against displaced is obviously false. pidgey's revised case is forced.

Neither "obviously false" nor "forced" is an applicable adjective to the posts in question.

3) Let's set aside pidgey's case for the moment. The game started on a weekend when nothing much had happened yet. Could you look me in the eye and state that displaced's post held scummy intent? Why would he bother? Having established that displaced's post help no scummy intent pidgey's claims are called into sharp question.

This is not logic, nor does it resemble logic, and I don't like how you're putting words in Nero's mouth either.

So yeah.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Literally all my scumreads are voting pidgey. Probably not a coincidence.

[Chandra Nalaar]

this is a town reaction, like REALLY town

Yep

Rufflig's got a decent case on Chandra, but I still have a super strong gut town read on Chandra

I think you switched some of the names around here

[Chandra Nalaar]

As would I, big scary posts that ~totally exist~ do exactly nothing for me.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Good lord. Where to begin with this mess? You obviously haven't been paying attention.

I'd like to take this moment to note your decision to start out by discrediting me as "not paying attention" and then to do exactly nothing in the rest of the post to demonstrate that I was not paying attention. You're just trying to sound pretty.

We only have a week to make this wagon happen.

Why do you want a bulbafenix wagon? Could I interest you in an Aronis wagon? If one has an awesome character then one doesn't consider trading for the worst Marvel character.

It wasn't when you made the vote and pushed for it.

^this was weird and illogical

Your stated reason for voting BulbaFenix at this point was that the BulbaFenix wagon was larger. This was untrue. So you were either mistaken or you had a different reason for voting BulbaFenix. I pressed you on it. Hey! Guess what? I was right. According to you, you were trying to get a reaction from BulbaFenix to get a better read on the slot.

I never stated that I voted for Bulbafenix because his wagon was larger. You're extrapolating from what I did say to something that isn't true.

@pidgey: Interesting. Would you say displaced is attempting to smear mozamis or mozamis' read on me?

At first, I thought this looked like trying to get pidgey to do your dirty work. However, you proceed to argue against pidgey in the following post. Calling it "interesting" first appears to me to be a case of cognitive dissonance and/or light trapping. I tend to think townies don't plan their posts/trajectories ahead of time.

So you didn't plan to make posts to get a reaction from BulbaFenix?

Completely different. I didn't do any misleading.

Ok. Are you scum?

Apparently, you didn't figure it out. That's ok, just pay attention to displaced - he caught all of the problems with Pidgey's posts that I was picking at.

VOTE: Pidgey

I just don't think pidgey looks scummy at all until you squint really hard trying to make it so.

I think you'd have to be blind not to see it. Keep in mind, I'm not the only one to pick up on these things. So, there is something there - or possibly something, if you are inclined to argue.

I guess I'm blind.

There is a reason I'm scumreading most of that wagon. I don't believe there is anything.

In my opinion, displaced's post is in no way or form throwing dirt on someone. When I pressed pidgey on this, his explanation changed to this:

Also to whoever asked, i feel that going out of his way to just mentiona point anout something without really commiting to a read was what made me weary of displaced

That is a dramatic change in pidgey's reason to vote for displaced.

As has been established, even if you thought pidgey meant what everyone apparently thought he did, this was a reach and a half.

Huh? That doesn't make sense. Anyway, I think we are all sick of arguing over what pidgey said. I don't need to win this point. It turns out that I can drop this point from my case and still have a damn solid case against pidgey.

(Hint: It's not solid)

Why did you vote for pidgey if you were talking about displaced?

Because displaced covered these points (and more) in his posts about pidgey. pidgey's initial case against displaced is obviously false. pidgey's revised case is forced.

Neither "obviously false" nor "forced" is an applicable adjective to the posts in question.

You find pidgey latching onto a neutral post and ascribing scummy things to it to be a natural progression? It seems forced to me. Can you come up with a rational reason why displaced would feel the need to throw dirt on mozamis (or anyone else)? With only two posts to work with, do you honestly believe that pidgey could determine scummy intent? Not a chance!

First of all, it's only neutral by your say-so.

Second of all, YOU don't seem to have been paying attention, because we literally just cleared up the confusion about "throwing dirt" last page.

3) Let's set aside pidgey's case for the moment. The game started on a weekend when nothing much had happened yet. Could you look me in the eye and state that displaced's post held scummy intent? Why would he bother? Having established that displaced's post help no scummy intent pidgey's claims are called into sharp question.

This is not logic, nor does it resemble logic, and I don't like how you're putting words in Nero's mouth either.

So yeah.

There is a reason that prosecutors routinely bring up motive in a murder case to establish guilt. It is self evident that I am asking for displaced's motive. Here is the context: it is early day 1 without much to comment on. What is displaced's motive? If displaced doesn't have a motive (and no one has been able to provide one), then it is likely that displaced's post was not, in fact, the sinister thing that pidgey made it out to be. That would make pidgey's accusation false. False accusations are not to be taken lightly and reflect back upon the accuser. Very clear and very logical train of thought.

I fail to see how I've put words in Nero's mouth.

You assume that the response to your question is "no, you couldn't look me in the eye and state that displaced's post held scummy intent".

You seem awfully sure that displaced has no scummy intent. Is it because you know he's town?

[Chandra Nalaar]

I'd like to take this moment to note your decision to start out by discrediting me as "not paying attention" and then to do exactly nothing in the rest of the post to demonstrate that I was not paying attention. You're just trying to sound pretty.

If you had been paying attention, I wouldn't have to keep correcting all your errors that you keep posting. As expected, the wall only brought contradictions from you without any arguments or proof.

You did not correct any errors in the post in question. You probably suspect no one will read closely enough to realize that this point is flagrantly made up. Contradictions: lol, show me them. Arguments: I'm pretty sure my post was comprised entirely of arguments. Proof: Is what scum demand when they are suspected on grounds they don't think are the correct ones, and is not a real thing that exists in mafia outside of power roles.

I never stated that I voted for Bulbafenix because his wagon was larger. You're extrapolating from what I did say to something that isn't true.

I'm sorry. I asked you point blank why you were voting for BulbaFenix and that

was

your reply. Would quoting it directly for you again refresh your memory or are you going to continue to deny your own posts?

Go ahead, quote it, and I'll tell you how that's not what I said. I'm waiting.

Completely different. I didn't do any misleading.

We weren't talking about misleading. However, your stated reason for voting BulbaFenix was because his wagon was larger. It turns out that wasn't the case. So misleading also applies here.

No, it was not. You asked me if I was interested in voting Aronis, and I told you the Bulba wagon was larger. I did not tell you that was why I was voting on it.

(Hint: It's not solid)

Then come up with an argument to dispute it instead of just contradicting everything I say. That should be an easy bar to reach if the case isn't solid.

I can't, because I have no idea what your case is without that point.

First of all, it's only neutral by your say-so.

Second of all, YOU don't seem to have been paying attention, because we literally just cleared up the confusion about "throwing dirt" last page.

First, are you paying attention to anyone? Even pidgey now states that the post was neutral -- that is the damn basis of his case against displaced -- that displaced did

not

take a side with his post.

Second, We did not clear up the mess of pidgey's throwing dirt. We just got tired of arguing about it. Excuse me - not arguing, contradicting. The clearing up is utter nonsense.

First: That's nice.
Second: Oh my fuck. He used the wrong fucking expression by accident. Holy shit. It's not hard to process this.

You assume that the response to your question is "no, you couldn't look me in the eye and state that displaced's post held scummy intent".

That would be a very easy statement to disprove, if it was false. Simply state a reasonable scummy motive behind the post. Go ahead. I'm listening.

Actually, I have no interest in disproving that statement or of telling you I think that scummy intent exists. What I think about it is entirely irrelevant to the fact that you were putting those words in someone's mouth.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Girls, Girls (Yates and SG), you're both beautiful... Now, can we come together and pluck out some scummies? Like KidA?

~Fenix

Why are you so hung up on KidA, He freely claimed wolverine at the beginning. Now unless you have some reason to believe that wolverine isn't in this game, or that wolverine is a fake claim that just hasn't been CC'd yet, I'm not seeing any issue against him that would indicate that he's scum.

Believe me, I don't like lurkers and inactives any more than the next guy, but that doesn't mean they're automatically scum.

Who cares? If I freely claimed, I don't know, Thor at the beginning, would that make me automatically town? Fakeclaims exist.

(Disclaimer: my rolename is not Thor)

[Chandra Nalaar]

That doesn't really make sense v.v

Yes, there is reason to believe Kid A's claim isn't true, and it's that his posts are scummy! And that's what we're here to play based on. I can't tell if you're actually new or not, but any mod worth his salt gives fake rolenames to the mafia around here if they're necessary.

[Chandra Nalaar]

It's not an advantage, it's a fighting chance. What if we decided to all claim our rolenames on Day 1, and someone asked scum player X to go first. He has no choice but to pick something out of a hat and potentially dies right then and there for no good reason. It's what's done. The only point of flavor is to be flavor. Any game breakable by mass flavor claim wouldn't pass the review process.

[Chandra Nalaar]

It's not an advantage, it's a fighting chance. What if we decided to all claim our rolenames on Day 1, and someone asked scum player X to go first. He has no choice but to pick something out of a hat and potentially dies right then and there for no good reason. It's what's done. The only point of flavor is to be flavor. Any game breakable by mass flavor claim wouldn't pass the review process.

I'm sorry, but no... A mod isn't going to go out of their way to give the mafia a 'fighting chance' by giving them ALL a character role to claim. UNLESS, it is ROLE specific, something in this game like Mystique I could see getting a role that calls for that. Other than that, no. If EVERYONE mass claimed day one, it then comes down to, 'ok, who's claim is believe-able'? After that, you give the MAFIA the advantage by leaping up and going, 'I got *insert character here*. 'But, that's my character! (another poster)' and it then becomes a truth/chaotic war where the town can devour itself while the mafia drink in the chaos.

~Fenix

To the first part of this post, mods absolutely do that and I can pull up plenty of examples of this.

The second part of this post I don't even understand.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Kid A is not actually that inexperienced, is the thing.

[Chandra Nalaar]

You'll want to stay away from all theme games on this site then.

[Chandra Nalaar]

What he said

The wolvie claim means nothing, the timing is what gives a lil townish vibe

See, now this I get.

You'll want to stay away from all theme games on this site then.

Why theme a game then, if counter claims are impossible? Why go through all the work of assigning characters to the roles if they don't mean anything?

Because it's more fun that way!

[Chandra Nalaar]

Yeah so anyway, I'm ready to lynch Rufflig now, can we do that

[Chandra Nalaar]

You and Mutley and moz. Of course, those are just existing wagons. I think there are better players to vote.

Then why aren't you voting them?

[Chandra Nalaar]

ZZ could be scum, that was pretty weak.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Would you like to at least share with us who you're talking about, then?

[Chandra Nalaar]

His early posts, particularly this one:

It was a reference to the show called "The Awesomes" (catch it on Hulu - it's quite good), Aronis. The main character of which is Professor Doctor Jeremy "Prock"

Awesome

.

I must bow to Squirrel Girl's superior knowledge of comic book minutiae.

all felt quite relaxed and "bantery". Doesn't seem at all nervous or forced.

Don't really think this is a good way to try to discern alignment.

And if you mean his, then this.

Lol.

I could apperantly say "Im going to make a sandwich guys" and youd respond "SANDWICH? SCUM!"

I mean its in my iso right there but here.

I dunno i have no reads yet nero seems town for now.

Displaced looks scummy with his last post since that seems like a little "throw some dirt and see if it sticks"

vote: Displaced

Im speachless

What if I had said "Ice cream at the wall" that would have so many connotations.

(Those 2= ruff and displaced. The red bird is just a lazy sheep that read saw words and thought "oo a case")

At least if im lynched you would all had a goldmine to work with since apperantly im all the talk today and everyone is either commenting about my RVS posts or inventing some fucking crap about me.

I did the first few posts I saw, Is it me or is most of those notihng useful?

This post. It sucks.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Let's try to cut these walls down in size. This is the most important part, as far as I'm concerned.

Actually, I have no interest in disproving that statement or of telling you I think that scummy intent exists. What I think about it is entirely irrelevant to the fact that you were putting those words in someone's mouth.

It is not irrelevant. What you think is definitely important. Your case on me depends on my case on pidgey. My case on pidgey depends on pidgey's case on displaced. You've been defending pidgey for some time now. It isn't a stretch to state that you must have swallowed pidgey's case on displaced and therefore think I'm off-base for going after pidgey. If you don't believe in pidgey's case, then you have no case on me.

I would like to hear your thoughts on pidgey's case and why you believe it.

I don't believe pidgey's case. If you'd been listening to me, you might have figured out that I don't think that's relevant, and I don't even think HE would call it a case, it was two fucking posts. You are trying to reduce this argument into something that it isn't so that you can win it even though you don't have a leg to stand on, and I refuse to participate in it. This point has nothing to do with anything. Anyone who actually cares enough to read our entire wallfest as one unit will see that you've tried the entire time to replace my argument with one of your own that you can actually win. You are scum.

Since ive all the fucking hot talk in this day im willing to be fucking lynched since you guys would get a ton of info as long as you lynch this goddamn scumbo tomorrow.

^town

You dont want to keep talking about it because your entire "case" against me depended on those 2 posts, and now that everyone fucking showed and realized you were just misdirecting my two posts as something they werent (and even if they were what you say, they arent even that scummy). You have said nothing regarding my slot about anything else besides those 2 posts and now you are suddenly saying you have a very meaty and solid case even if you take that away, but thats a fucking gigantic lie. Seriously, you REALLY DONT. Im calling your bluff, quote it.

And now you're posting completely unrelated things to try to distract from the fact that this post is COMPLETELY RIGHT.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Nope. How many other players do you hear in this discussion? No one else cares.

Cheeky fucking scumbutt. You're right, it's quite plain no one is going to bother lynch you over what is essentially a scumclaim because they aren't paying attention. Good deduction. Keep refusing to link to a post that doesn't exist.

Why isn't this dead yet? Can I have a double vote?

[Chandra Nalaar]

Vote The Rufflig

He attempts to dodge discussion more than he actually tries to engage. He states that he has a case or has stated a case, yet when asked about it, he avoids talking about it. He refuses to back points up. He tries to look like he's being incredibly pro-town, and that he's not going to clog up the thread with arguments or walls, but in reality, he's avoiding talking about his assertions and cases and is trying to put on a show more than actually trying to show why what he's saying is accurate or why Pidgey or Chandra are scum.

-Bulba

Either bussing or very tired bulba.

???

Right, Yates last post about Rufflig makes him look very town to me. It's completely logical, doesn't seem to misrep or exaggarare or obfuscate in anyway, and seems completely open and transparent. If he is scum, then he is very, very good. But seems unlikely as hell.
Rufflig, I care about the argument and dislike the fact that you seem to be trying to shut it down. Also, why would you give up on trying to get your two best scum reads lynched this early in the game? Also, I think I understand why you think Pidgey is scum. But your scum read on Chandra seems pretty much just OMGUS, please explain.

I don't think that post is particularly alignment indicative, anyone can construct a rational argument that describes exactly what just happened, though perhaps not in so articulate a fashion. I am starting to lean town on Yates though.

JoshB and/or PV, you were speculating about Kid A claiming wolverine. With him saying this, would this make him a bad lynch because of the uncertainty of his role or would it make him a good lynch because he claimed as he did?

Thanks

I hope PV responds to this too. probably Chandra{Is it your Birthday?},Fenix, and some of the others that were in on the conversation earlier can talk about this too. My original theory that such an early claim that wasn't counter claimed was a sign of it being town. The extent of counterclaims however indicates that unless his role lines up with his claim, it could be a predetermined fake claim.
My position is that his play style lines up with an inexperienced pioneer(someone that likes to wagon). However, it's not the case that he is inexperienced, so his play style this game has been purposely anti- town trolling. I have a theory about why an semi-experienced player claiming wolverine would do that, but I think it should be proven on a future DP.

My answer is neither. I could not care less that he claimed Wolverine and the amount of discussion on it has been silly. As such, I read him as a little scummy based on his lack of play.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I don't feel like having that argument anymore either, so I'll basically drop it. Rufflig remains scum, though.

@Nero: You didn't think the length of time he spent confused rang a bit town? Also, I'm not particularly aware of new scum doing that?

Also, beast is pretty much scum. As much for 590 as the original problem. Who responds to "this point is scummy and makes no sense" with "wah but I'm town and you should look at this completely unrelated thing!!!" ? Nobody does.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Chandra's posts towards me were deliberately inflammatory.

How is refuting your points and asking you to actually back up your assertions being "deliberately inflammatory"?

-Bulba

Also this.

[Chandra Nalaar]

@Umbrage: you're actually right, bc is really obvscum, and I almost want to move my vote there because some small part of me can still imagine ruffles being severely misguided town fond of misreps. ZZZX is also scum. Honestly I would be fine with any of those three lynches.

I'm not gonna go point by point through ruffles' last post unless there is a really big desire from anyone other than him for me to do so. I recognize that continuing to batter at him would be more likely to get the lynch I want to happen, but I'm really just kind of tired of it? There is a chance I'll change my mind when I'm in a more fiery mood.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Also whoever shot Aronis is a moron.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Josh is probably town for the completely batshit logic in his more recent posts

[Chandra Nalaar]

I've seen scum dayvigs, don't write it off as impossible.

VOTE: beast

[Chandra Nalaar]

The ZZZ posts aren't rolefishing.

[Chandra Nalaar]

ATE & OMGUS COMBOOOOOO

[Chandra Nalaar]

Bulba, you are the best, thank you for that.

@BC: I'll get to you later.

I have Ruffling as town now.

I don't know how this is possible.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Bulba, you are the best, thank you for that.

@BC: I'll get to you later.

I have Ruffling as town now.

I don't know how this is possible.

Post 652.

Basically I am defending him and attacking his attacker. His response is, in a conversation he's not even part of, to come in and disagree with me and defend his attacker. I don't understand how that would come from scum, do you?

Bah, I suppose that's a defensible position. I'm not gonna take it, though.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Interesting. Well, if you have any more shots for later Days, please hang onto them until we come to a consensus and we can use you as a second lynch. Also, any possibility that he was an SK is pretty much eradicated for me.

[Chandra Nalaar]

VOTE: Ruffles

[Chandra Nalaar]

Chandra completely avoided my question on why they think I am scum. They just said they would get back to me. It seems like they need to search for some BS reason to call me scum since they don't remember why they thought I was scum originally and they can't look dumb going back on their read.

I find it extremely difficult to believe this opinion is not manufactured. No one would ever do this. Also, it was very very obviously started with the post Umbrage called you out for. I am still going to go into more detail, I'm in the middle of something right now.

Are we sure we can't manage to lynch this today?

[Chandra Nalaar]

Why Beastcharizard is Scum
by Chandra Nalaar
Mrs. Mafia
3rd Grade Social Studies
April 23, 2014

I don't think that post is particularly alignment indicative, anyone can construct a rational argument that describes exactly what just happened, though perhaps not in so articulate a fashion. I am starting to lean town on Yates though.

How do you catch scum then if it isn't based on how they post? I am a little confused.

@Person who asked me about ZZZX:

He didn't say it was for info until later from what I recall. Also him saying: "I am playing badly to test everyone." just looks absolutely horrible to me. It is an easy excuse to use when you realize you have messed up. I know town do it sometimes too but it is just an excuse for bad play and at this time I think it is coming from scum because he uses that excuse to cover everything he had done to that point and not just a single thing.

I claim that one post is not alignment indicative, and get "how do you catch scum if it isn't based on how they post". This obviously is ludicrous.

I don't think that post is particularly alignment indicative, anyone can construct a rational argument that describes exactly what just happened, though perhaps not in so articulate a fashion. I am starting to lean town on Yates though.

How do you catch scum then if it isn't based on how they post? I am a little confused.

LOOK AT THIS

LOOK AT THIS SCUM BULLSHIT

"I don't think this post is very useful" = "I DON'T CATCH SCUM BASED ON POSTING" APPARENTLY

I MEAN SERIOUSLY IS IT POSSIBLE TO MAKE A MORE USELESSLY BANAL INTERPRETATION?

so yup I'm fully on the beastcharizard wagon now

VOTE: beastcharizard

Squirrel can wait

Now, what are you going to call that comment when I flip town? Also, what do you think of what I said about ZZZX and what is your general opinion on that slot? I don't remember you saying anything about them so your opinion would be greatly appreciated.

This is where it gets better. First of all, our reaction to ONE VOTE is appealing to shame. And then asking the person who voted him to look at something else that has figuratively nothing to do with anything, which looks to me like an attempt to distract him with shiny things, followed by thinly veiled flattery (oh your opinion is soooo important despite the fact that you are currently using it to call me scum- I would expect a town mindset to write this off)

When I found out it was a daykill my mind went to compulsive or D1 only shot. It the role is town then D1 only would be powerful but quite a two-sided blade. The compulsive would be as less of a two-sided blade though but IIRC if you don't use a compulsive thing your target is chosen randomly which would be a bad thing since Town should outnumber scum.

@Chandra/Umbrage:

Can you tell me how I am obvious scum? Umbrage I think you are upset I voted you and Chandra I think you are just sheeping Umbrage. So clarification would be fantastic. If you won't do it for me do it for the actual town people whom you are trying to trick into mislynching me.

But wait, there's more! Now we're attributing reasons for Umbrage's vote and my own; Umbrage's vote is now OMGUS (even though 587 very clearly spells out why Umbrage is voting for beast). And apparently I am "just sheeping Umbrage" which implies that I'm town honestly following another's opinion, BUT WE THEN PROCEED TO PLAY THE VICTIM CARD AND CALL ME SCUM. Also, the very sentence "

If you won't do it for me do it for the actual town people

whom you are trying to trick into mislynching me

" is massive cognitive dissonance. Break it down:
Green: Assumption that I am town and want to do things for the benefit of town players.
Blue: Assumption that I am scum and trying to lead town astray.

Chandra completely avoided my question on why they think I am scum. They just said they would get back to me. It seems like they need to search for some BS reason to call me scum since they don't remember why they thought I was scum originally and they can't look dumb going back on their read.

And now I supposedly need to search for some BS reason, even though according to you a few posts ago I was supposedly sheeping Umbrage (oh, I'm also full blown scum now for no discernible reason??).

[Chandra Nalaar]

In conclusion, lynch this shit and please give me an A on this report.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Ah, yeah, there's the "actual town" as well, as opposed to himself. I noticed that but didn't think it was worth mentioning.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I don't think that post is particularly alignment indicative, anyone can construct a rational argument that describes exactly what just happened, though perhaps not in so articulate a fashion. I am starting to lean town on Yates though.

How do you catch scum then if it isn't based on how they post? I am a little confused.

@Person who asked me about ZZZX:

He didn't say it was for info until later from what I recall. Also him saying: "I am playing badly to test everyone." just looks absolutely horrible to me. It is an easy excuse to use when you realize you have messed up. I know town do it sometimes too but it is just an excuse for bad play and at this time I think it is coming from scum because he uses that excuse to cover everything he had done to that point and not just a single thing.

I claim that one post is not alignment indicative, and get "how do you catch scum if it isn't based on how they post". This obviously is ludicrous.

You imply that how one posts in general doesn't effect your scum read on them. Does it or does it not?

It does. I didn't say it didn't. At all.

I don't think that post is particularly alignment indicative, anyone can construct a rational argument that describes exactly what just happened, though perhaps not in so articulate a fashion. I am starting to lean town on Yates though.

How do you catch scum then if it isn't based on how they post? I am a little confused.

LOOK AT THIS

LOOK AT THIS SCUM BULLSHIT

"I don't think this post is very useful" = "I DON'T CATCH SCUM BASED ON POSTING" APPARENTLY

I MEAN SERIOUSLY IS IT POSSIBLE TO MAKE A MORE USELESSLY BANAL INTERPRETATION?

so yup I'm fully on the beastcharizard wagon now

VOTE: beastcharizard

Squirrel can wait

Now, what are you going to call that comment when I flip town? Also, what do you think of what I said about ZZZX and what is your general opinion on that slot? I don't remember you saying anything about them so your opinion would be greatly appreciated.

This is where it gets better. First of all, our reaction to ONE VOTE is appealing to shame. And then asking the person who voted him to look at something else that has figuratively nothing to do with anything, which looks to me like an attempt to distract him with shiny things, followed by thinly veiled flattery (oh your opinion is soooo important despite the fact that you are currently using it to call me scum- I would expect a town mindset to write this off)

I already explained why I asked the question to Umbrage and the whole "flattery" thing is something I just do. Asking a scum read their opinion on another scum read is a good way to later gauge potential relationships after one of the scum reads flips. It is directly helpful to finding the scum.

None of this makes your reaction less scummy.

When I found out it was a daykill my mind went to compulsive or D1 only shot. It the role is town then D1 only would be powerful but quite a two-sided blade. The compulsive would be as less of a two-sided blade though but IIRC if you don't use a compulsive thing your target is chosen randomly which would be a bad thing since Town should outnumber scum.

@Chandra/Umbrage:

Can you tell me how I am obvious scum? Umbrage I think you are upset I voted you and Chandra I think you are just sheeping Umbrage. So clarification would be fantastic. If you won't do it for me do it for the actual town people whom you are trying to trick into mislynching me.

But wait, there's more! Now we're attributing reasons for Umbrage's vote and my own; Umbrage's vote is now OMGUS (even though 587 very clearly spells out why Umbrage is voting for beast). And apparently I am "just sheeping Umbrage" which implies that I'm town honestly following another's opinion, BUT WE THEN PROCEED TO PLAY THE VICTIM CARD AND CALL ME SCUM. Also, the very sentence "

If you won't do it for me do it for the actual town people

whom you are trying to trick into mislynching me

" is massive cognitive dissonance. Break it down:
Green: Assumption that I am town and want to do things for the benefit of town players.
Blue: Assumption that I am scum and trying to lead town astray.

The green part isn't an assumption you are town. It is saying that you have to make yourself look town in order to not be lynched. Since you aren't town you have to do it for the people who are actually town. I guess it could be read as me saying I am not town but it doesn't seem you read it that way. If you could explain how the green part is me assuming you are town that would be great. Also, if I would scum why would I have to assume you were town rather than knowing that you are?

Assuming I'm town is equivalent to knowing I am. The rest of this is exactly what you have to say regardless of whether or not my accusation is correct, so it doesn't hold a lot of credence for me.

Chandra completely avoided my question on why they think I am scum. They just said they would get back to me. It seems like they need to search for some BS reason to call me scum since they don't remember why they thought I was scum originally and they can't look dumb going back on their read.

And now I supposedly need to search for some BS reason, even though according to you a few posts ago I was supposedly sheeping Umbrage (oh, I'm also full blown scum now for no discernible reason??).

You had to search for "reasons" because you didn't want it to look like you were sheeping Umbrage. Also, scum can sheep town players. Sheeping isn't just for town to do with other people, unless when scum do it there is a different word for it.

You are scum because you didn't take the time to give reasons for the person that you were voting at the time. You said to wait up since you were busy with something else. Now I could have accepted that if your next post was reasons or something along the line but it wasn't. You just waited until you could spin my posts to look scummy.

No, I didn't. I just didn't feel like writing up a big case. It just so happened that you kept doing scummy things in the interim, but what I've said about your first couple posts nonetheless constitutes why I originally voted you. Umbrage pointing out that you are scum did help me to notice this fact, but that's all.

@Chandra: I grade it a C. Your first point shows that you do not understand what beast is saying (bc misunderstood you as well). The second points are a little better - though I don't agree with all of them. The third points ... the green and blue is fine - not so much for the rest. The fourth point is an evasion. You also forgot to vote.

I don't see how anything is an evasion. I did not forget to vote, though. I believe beast has a higher probability of being scum than you, but it doesn't look like he's getting lynched today.

As far as I can tell, Chandra parroted Umbrage's case without actually looking into it.

Patently false, not least because Umbrage barely had a case. I also mentioned at the time that I felt bc's response to Umbrage was just as significant and possibly worse.

This is what I don't like about #767. Chandra is trying to tie "bc claims I was sheeping Umbrage's vote" (#650) to "bc changed his mind about me sheeping and wants me to explain my vote" (#741). Even if I interpret bc's #650 as a charge of sheeping instead of asking for clarification, Chandra's attack on bc doesn't hold up. Chandra's post #662 would cause bc's change in stance. She implies that bc is being inconsistent in his attack on her (#767), because of this change in stance. This twisting of things seems typical of her and I still don't like it.

How would me saying I'm going to make a case later change his opinion that I was sheeping Umbrage? Not to mention change it to "Chandra is scum"?

When I found out it was a daykill my mind went to compulsive or D1 only shot. It the role is town then D1 only would be powerful but quite a two-sided blade. The compulsive would be as less of a two-sided blade though but IIRC if you don't use a compulsive thing your target is chosen randomly which would be a bad thing since Town should outnumber scum.

@Chandra/Umbrage:

Can you tell me how I am obvious scum? Umbrage I think you are upset I voted you and Chandra I think you are just sheeping Umbrage. So clarification would be fantastic. If you won't do it for me do it for the actual town people whom you are trying to trick into mislynching me.

But wait, there's more! Now we're attributing reasons for Umbrage's vote and my own; Umbrage's vote is now OMGUS (even though 587 very clearly spells out why Umbrage is voting for beast). And apparently I am "just sheeping Umbrage" which implies that I'm town honestly following another's opinion, BUT WE THEN PROCEED TO PLAY THE VICTIM CARD AND CALL ME SCUM. Also, the very sentence "

If you won't do it for me do it for the actual town people

whom you are trying to trick into mislynching me

" is massive cognitive dissonance. Break it down:
Green: Assumption that I am town and want to do things for the benefit of town players.
Blue: Assumption that I am scum and trying to lead town astray.

The green part isn't an assumption you are town. It is saying that you have to make yourself look town in order to not be lynched. Since you aren't town you have to do it for the people who are actually town. I guess it could be read as me saying I am not town but it doesn't seem you read it that way. If you could explain how the green part is me assuming you are town that would be great. Also, if I would scum why would I have to assume you were town rather than knowing that you are?

Still seems a bit dissociative, but I can see where you are coming from. I probably would have used a self inclusive term, but you do what you have to do. Plus it wasn't what Chandra was saying, and everything else pretty much had to do with you naming Chandra and Umbrage as a team. Do you really think that Chandra and Umbrage are part of a mafia team? Can you find a possible third person that they are linked to? Generally, to get a good read on a relationship like this, there's at least one third player that can synch a definitive link.

This logic blows. Don't try to solve the entire scumteam at once. It never works.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Why would think anything different? Hasn't it already been stated that multiball is part of Jason's meta.

I could start FoSing Team2 right now if you want, but they seem to be interested in rooting out Team1.

With so many players in this game, and only getting one lynch per day, I think I'll stick with where I'm at.

I strongly believe this is claiming scum.[/quote]
In my opinion, this will be worth revisiting if the game is actually multiball, but lynching for it Day 1 would be stupid when waiting has a chance of rendering it moot.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I am still in the process of trying to care about Yates/SG.

I don't plan on ever completing this process. I have light town reads on both of them and am far more interested in other targets. Also, wall fights have a tendency to be either very clear-cut (hi) or extremely useless.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Nor will you read them apparently seeing as that post wasn't addressed to you

[Chandra Nalaar]

Holy shit. Is this guy new? Didn't he knew that all day Vig usually discuss first if they come out.
Is there any possiblity, this guy could be scum day vig? Is that allowed in this setup?

Well, his join date is from the end of January. No idea if he is an alt [my hunch is yes]. Also, he's claiming he has never had a day kill before. I guess that isn't the same as having never played in a game with a day kill before but whatever. His posts up to that point did not appear to be noobish in nature or those of a VI so there's that. I guess a day kill is possible for a scum team but it is far more likely to come from a 3rd party. My money is on 3rd party killer right now though I'm open to the possibility he's a vig given he did claim his kill right away in thread.

Personally, I'm up for allowing night actions to sort that slot out.

Huh? I have no trouble believing he's a newbie.

As AA9 said though, we should just leash him. As long as he's good, I don't even care if he's a third party.

And Yates, this is for you. Do you Pidgey is Scum and also Squirrel is Scum?

I don't have a particularly strong read on Pidgey though in the process of defending against SG's misreps I found myself leaning Town.

I'll say I'm leaning scum on SG. My read on SG is a bit more complicated than that, though. My struggle with SG is that her logic and misreps are so obvious that anyone actually reading the thread can see right through them. So I don't know how scum SG would think she could get away with it. I think Josh has been doing a good job recently of pointing out many of her inconsistencies. And I'm glad because I know I can get tunnelly and sometimes allow confirmation bias to tint my reads on slots. So seeing someone else recognize the fail logic and to call her to task on it is making me happy on the inside. Now I'm just reading her reactions/responses to see if she will recognize the problems or pretend those problems don't exist and never adequately address them. So, essentially, I'm waiting to see if she's going allow posts to inform her reads or if she is going to find posts in a shallow attempt to justify those reads. One is clearly scum motivated and one is typically more town motivated.

This is exactly how I feel about Ruffles.

@AA9: I think it would be fair to say that you can see why there is a wagon on Ruffles by ISOing me. Also, how's having a town role PM treating you?

[Chandra Nalaar]

My primary qualm about UN being scum is "if they were scum, would they really suck this badly?" They're better than this either way, though.

[Chandra Nalaar]

People keep voting for not-ruffles

Why are they voting for not-ruffles

[Chandra Nalaar]

People keep voting for not-ruffles

Why are they voting for not-ruffles

I could ask you the same thing about not voting scum Yates and UN but we can get ruffles later.

UN could be scum but I want to see them actually post.

Yates I don't really get but I've also been glossing pretty hard over everything to do with him.

[Chandra Nalaar]

@Mala

- Just fiinished your 919.

In your 10-page catchup, despite her having 9% of the total posts to date, you gave no read on Squirrel Girl except to questions Nero's 134 about her being "spammy". You seemed to indicate in another game you did not find her so.

Reading your 919, Squireel Girl stuill has about 9% of the total game posts. And Squirrel Girl is not mentioned once, or twcie, or three times, but a grand total of ZERO times.

First time, maybe she didn't post enough (false) or it was intelligible (false) or contentless (???). But if so, you would think she would at least be mentioned in your Yates evaluation, since that's been the bulk of his

tunneling

focus so far today. (You said [about Yates] "The tunneling on SQ/NC is getting old pretty fast.", to be exact, but that was classified as "getting old", so I can't really count that as trying to determine alignment).

But, between posts 250-919, Squirrel Girl once again has NO COMMENTABLE CONTENT. Not even enough to say null, not even enough to agree or disagree with any of her posts, statements, stances.

I'll get around to the rest of my responses to your reads later, but considering this is not even a lurker and you've avoided comment on her twice has defined a relationship in my mind. The scumflip of either of you, I feel, will indicate a scumflip on the other one.

But, I will double-fact-check this by looking up Squirrel's interaction/position on both you and Pappum's Rat, and vice versa. Plus, you made more posts, so let's see what's there too.

Who cares? I haven't had much to say about Squirrel Girl either, she has been pretty uncommentworthy and skippable.

Mala, in your last post you gave a reads list, why was the whole playerbase not on it?

It wasn't *really* a full read base. It was reads that I was getting after being fully caught up from reading the 11-current.

Good on Nero for calling you out on it.

Need to go see who else is not on the list.

What would this means to you? I wasn't on it, but I didn't care.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Viomi, have you finished reading the thread yet?

I don't know why she is getting showered with townreads incidentally, seems null to me.

[Chandra Nalaar]

catch me up

-Yates and Squirrel Girl like yelling at each other
-Me and Rufflig like yelling at each other
-Unfriendlyneighbors is being wagoned for the crime of lurking while being cabd
-Josh B is figuratively being wagoned for not being scum
-Rufflig is scum and you should vote for him

[Chandra Nalaar]

Oh, I forgot to add
-your slot daykilled some random lurker for no apparent reason

[Chandra Nalaar]

I don't mind as long as you do it eventually and don't act super confident in the meantime.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Just a general admonishment not an actual observation on your play~

[Chandra Nalaar]

I currently have a townread of reasonable strength on BulbaFenix. I would probably say they're in my top 5, despite my earlier expressed concerns about not being good at reading them.

[Chandra Nalaar]

@PV: I did call SG town early on but the read has waned on account of me not seeing anything noteworthy since then.

I don't understand the issue with pidgey but he is still town. You can explain if you want but really he just isn't getting lynched today.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I don't understand the issue with pidgey but he is still town. You can explain if you want but really he just isn't getting lynched today.

If you are town, do you declare someone is not scum with you?

Im still pretty sure about my solid town reads in this game. The more Moz posts the more i reflect my reasoning with his own.

Im sure its not scum with this slot.

Who refers to themselves as "this slot"? Probably meant someone else.

p-edit mmk that post totally confused me

[Chandra Nalaar]

I don't feel like trying to make a towncase today but I will if you make me.

[Chandra Nalaar]

on Yates or Josh?

Josh

[Chandra Nalaar]

Would lynch Yates before UN, would vastly prefer giving that slot a chance to play. It would probably be more engaged if it was scum.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I don't think Viomi is town.

[Chandra Nalaar]

For me its either Yates or Ruffling and I lean Yates so yeah...

As long as this is the conversation that's being had, and I think it should be, I can deal.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Wow, you're really working on that posture for tomorrow, eh?

No, cool with lynching Yates or Rufflig, and I think we should be debating between those two, as opposed to lynching Josh, who is not scum.

[Chandra Nalaar]

That's a course of action I am prepared to take should it become necessary, but I'm lazy, and I'm hoping I can derail his wagon by just standing here whining about it instead.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Stroke that vanity wagon like you mean it.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Yates 8 - Squirrel Girl,Kid A, Aunt Jemina,Nero Cain,beastcharizard,UnfriendlyNeighbors,Metal Sonic, displaced,
The Ruffling 7 - pidgey,BulbaFenix,Chandra Nalaar,mozamis,vezokpiraka,Josh,Mala
Stupid vanity crap - everyone else

[Chandra Nalaar]

Well at least this is going swimmingly. And we have metric fuckloads of information to boot. Though I could still wish I had more, things aren't obvious to me yet.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Also, what the hell is with that mafia kill? They must be terrified of docs or something o.o

[Chandra Nalaar]

I should also note that one of those flips makes me feel weird about my rolename. Probably something to do with me not understanding the mythos.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Eh, I think that's too simplistic. I thought about Viomi's vote immediately upon seeing the flip, but I'm not so quick to leap to conclusions.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Neither of these scum isos is actually helping me very much

[Chandra Nalaar]

Town due to D1 play: Nero Cain, Josh, Pidgey
Likely town due to D1 play, no free pass yet: Aunt J, displaced, Bulba, ZZZX?
Likely town due to flips: TheWayItEnds.
Just generally a bad direction to look in right now: Metal Sonic

Therefore, pool of people I should be examining right now: vezok, Kid A, PV, USB, Umbrage, Viomi, Beast, mozamis, Mala, AA9, UN.
I got some town vibes yesterday from Mala, and I don't think Viomi is where I want to go today either.

[Chandra Nalaar]

We already knew pidgey was town from, you know, how obviously town he was~

[Chandra Nalaar]

Also, can anyone come up with a second scumteam name that would be plausible at all? Or is this an SK/vig?

[Chandra Nalaar]

If you actually have another shot and you use it on Josh I will deathtunnel you for the rest of the game

[Chandra Nalaar]

I think the second scum team will be from outside the marvel universe due to the incursion flavour in the actual game. It's not an SK/Vig. SG/Ruff flipped a flavour of scum as opposed to just "mafia"

Some mods do that anyway...but even cursory mod meta seems to indicate this one is not among them. I'm comfortable calling this definitely multiball.

Re Nero's list: I'd replace Mala with Kid A & beast.

[Chandra Nalaar]

That means we should probably not focus too carefully on Rufflig and SG. Not that that analysis isn't worth anything, and we should probably do it now anyway to inform future days and town PRs, but ideally we'd like to lynch someone scummy on their own merits today.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Reading PereV's ISO he's basically done nothing.

This just in: PV is PV.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I wasn't I was pointing out that PV being useless is not surprising.

[Chandra Nalaar]

USB is probably one flavor of scum or the other, just because look at their posts ew ew ew.

[Chandra Nalaar]

MS, I don't believe that you actually have a second shot >.<

[Chandra Nalaar]

Nero, chandra, I like your analysis on the NK's but seriously I don't see how ruflig confirms the people on your list as town. I'm still suspecting multiball. If anything it prove thst thes displaced is probably scum. Now that SqG doesn't have daychat and her team doesn't either, hahahaha!. It probably means displaced is confirmed scum based bn my earlier reads.

My list is almost entirely unrelated to the nightkills.

[Chandra Nalaar]

"I shot you, so you should claim" - no one ever

[Chandra Nalaar]

He didn't really shoot you.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Please do UN, I'd love to see you attempt some actual sorting. Then maybe I'll be able to attempt to read you!

[Chandra Nalaar]

I always need help, and not just of the mental variety.

[Chandra Nalaar]

For the record my working theory ATM is 5/1/19

Counterpoint: Other Jason games refer to one scumgroup as simply "scum" and their color appears to always be red.

[Chandra Nalaar]

@1494: There's also the part where Squirrel Girl spent most of the game day tunneling that slot to hell and back. But yeah, RVS votes, good point!

[Chandra Nalaar]

Fine, fine, as long as you do work I'll stop complaining.

[Chandra Nalaar]

So they say.

[Chandra Nalaar]

[Chandra Nalaar]

Metal would it absolutely kill you to stop impulse shooting and act as a fucking second lynch?

[Chandra Nalaar]

So can we kindly stop fucking shooting from the hip without asking for claims or anything? Because that would be super nice. Also "stabbed in the bacK' is one helluva flavor. Sonic, what is your character and why is he backstabbing?

Extremely interested in this, thinking slot is an SK.

[Chandra Nalaar]

My thought is basically that jklash was an idiot and fucked himself over.

It also explains why the number of shots metal possesses has been like four different numbers and why he is shooting in an antitown manner.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I asked MS to shoot Kid A. I thought I saw clear associative signs that he was the last Marvel scum, but I was clearly wrong. Regardless, it was a good shot and rid the town of a useless slot and potential liability.

I know, but the town thing to do would have been to wait for a consensus. I'm thinking he just knows he's ultimately boned by his predecessor's stupidity and is just trolling.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I'm comfortable with a "lynch metal if and when he ever turns out to have a third shot" policy.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I want Viomi to be scum but I'm not convinced she actually is.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Really don't like Chandra's sudden activity. If I had to guess, SG told him he had to be more active in the QT.

I have the second most posts in the game. It's not sudden.

Not sure how the fuck you get me bussing Rufflig when I was among the first to notice that he was scum.

If there are two scum teams, Metal Sonic is town. If there's one scum team and an SK/3rd party, he's the SK.

There are two scum teams. Doesn't mean no SK for sure. If the game should be won and isn't, then we lynch him. Also, if he keeps lying about his role, we lynch him.

Walk me through this, to my mind she p much claimed scum

Not sure if I can, but gimme a minute.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I'm really tempted to replace out right now. I can't stand another moment of Metal's "Oh I'm so cool yeah I'm obv. town and everyone knows it so I'm just going to ignore town and shoot whoever I want uh yeah so cool"

Like seriously I think I might need to puke

In other news, Fenix is bad. Josh_B is still scum. PereV is town. Chandra is town. UN is null. Bulba is okay. Bulba, why would you ruin yourself and hydra with Fenix? Poor bulba.


EBWOP:
"backstab"
If he's not SK, he's scum.

vote viomi

This scum needs death. Metadefense doesn't cut it.

Only because you still have yet to meta me. *sighs deeply*

Nevermind, I take it back, on reread this sounds exactly like scum rage.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I don't think it's black scum, though.

[Chandra Nalaar]

VOTE: Viomi

[Chandra Nalaar]

Aunt J, you're nice and all and I think you're probably town, but I don't agree with your reads at all :/

[Chandra Nalaar]

Psst, Umbrage, stop hunting black.

[Chandra Nalaar]

@aunt jeanina: you claim to have played a lot games with me and then say this isn't my town game.
Sorry if I think all your reads are awful.

Dislike.

Aunt J, could you expound on your meta things?

[Chandra Nalaar]

However, my general feeling has been that Zexxy's not scumhunting a specific faction, but

is

scumhunting. His posting is subtle, but almost certainly sweet all the same underneath it. Reading him requires not thinking about any individual post (because he has too few with too little content in each to be an accurate judge), but at the whole and the deep drive behind him. And that I see as sweet.

Yeah, I think his attempts at scumhunting and frustration with being ignored, much as both were pointless/misguided, are pretty town.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Well I was actually potentially interested in making something of it but if you're not gonna let me then I guess I won't >.<

[Chandra Nalaar]

I meant Vezok. Though if you wanted to talk about PV as well, I wouldn't complain.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I'd actually rather have that NK in the game right now, since it should probably be shooting for the other scumgroup at this point.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Yep. Our lists are similar. I'd add Nero Cain and Bulba. If there's scum in my little group of 5 strong townreads, though, it's Bulba.

Would love to hear more about this PV thing, he could be scum. Am starting to disbelieve in Viomi being scum again, but probably because Bulba isn't here to tell me she is again.

I think I'm looking at a lynch pool of {vezok, PV, USBslot, beast} right now. I should flip through those players again. AA9 is also a concern but her slot is probably going to be modkilled.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Re Ruff/Yates: My assumption is he thought he'd look better not making the self-preservation vote. Besides, the alternative is SG/Yates being scum together.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Special Notes: if a slot has to be replaced more than once from failing to pick up prods or flaking, that slot will be eliminated from the game. If a slot has to be replaced for a 3rd time (regardless of flaking, replacement request or failed prods) that slot shall be eliminated from the game.

[Chandra Nalaar]

VOTE: Beast

I've seen beast play town, and he tends to go after less easy/omgusy targets, and has more different/against the grain reads if I recall correctly. I also just don't think his posts are genuine, as meaningless a statement as that may be. Also, I still take the issues I did yesterday, and I didn't buy voting me as a reaction.

I also think Vezok is scum. Even when he pushes things, his pushes don't have any real conviction. I was gonna drag up some quotes for this, but I got bored.

[Chandra Nalaar]

RachMarie, come play with us, I see you posting elsewhere!

[Chandra Nalaar]

So Chandra, how did you plan on sorting me, since you expressed interest in doing so?

Watching and waiting, hoping you'll start doing things.

I'm not as concerned as I was yesterday, though. I've gotten little glimmers of town here and there, which with you might actually be better than a neon town sign but I'm ignoring that for the time being.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Right now my vote is probably being directed to ZZZX, universal's slot, and i got some bad vibes from PV on the last game day when he voted me. But want to do a catch up before throwing a vote.

Grinny is the only one among them I realistically see as flipping scum.

You actually think USB is town now? I thought you had them at null but I could be remembering wrong and I'm not checking.

I think I'm looking at a lynch pool of {vezok, PV, USBslot, beast} right now. I should flip through those players again.

There is an absolute minimum of five scum left in the game right now, with the possibility of six. (One Marvel Villain, a serial killer, and four of the unidentified faction.) So even if your list is correct, you need one more, and I would heavily recommend a second.

Aside from Rach's slot, I do like all of your sourreads, because I have similar feelings about vezzy, Grinny, and beasty. However, as noted, I feel as if you need more names in there.

You mentioned BulbyFenny being possible scum in your townbloc and I would urge you strongly to consider this more, as I firmly believe that they are playing to a scum game. In fact, they are what I consider to be at this time my strongest scumread. (I am not fond of Joshy's presence in your townreads, but I will let that one slide for the time being.)

I'm not particularly worried about having less scumreads than there are (probably) scum in the game. I'm probably not right about all the ones I do have anyway. But having the right number is definitely not my concern so early in the game, and I expect I'll develop other targets as the game progresses, data accumulates, and scum continue to flip.

It is probably impossible to cure me of being paranoid of Bulba, so you don't need to worry about that bit. Still, I'm not putting him on the table right now.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Viomi is so scum. That town posturing is incredibly forced.

It really does hurt :/

I expected you to have anything to say about the fact that I just expressed a willingness to lynch you, which is not a terribly popular opinion.

I'd love to see this Beast wagon take off, this is something that needs to happen. I really feel like Bulba is a mile and a half up the wrong tree this game :/

[Chandra Nalaar]

I think you're both nuts and going on about things that hardly matter and or are not even accurate

[Chandra Nalaar]

You & ZZZX. It's entirely too early for VCA especially when you're trying to catch a scumteam with no members flipped. I also don't have much respect for it to begin with.

[Chandra Nalaar]

You go ahead then, I'll be over here lynching scum instead

[Chandra Nalaar]

Kinda justified after I lynched scum yesterday, don't ya think?

[Chandra Nalaar]

I was pretty much the case, at least at first, pretty sure I should get some credit for that. I'm only not the first vote because I left and came back.

Also, we should be hunting the other team today, so looking at that wagon is kind of pointless for now.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I was pretty much the case, at least at first, pretty sure I should get some credit for that. I'm only not the first vote because I left and came back.

Also, we should be hunting the other team today, so looking at that wagon is kind of pointless for now.

actually on that "wagon" you will more than likely find opposing team members vs off that wagon.

I was pretty much the case, at least at first, pretty sure I should get some credit for that. I'm only not the first vote because I left and came back.

Also, we should be hunting the other team today, so looking at that wagon is kind of pointless for now.

actually on that "wagon" you will more than likely find opposing team members vs off that wagon.

Maybe, maybe not. As far as they knew the wagon was on town.

if beast is scum I would think more likely on SG's and Rufflings team than not.

Eh, I just think he's independently scummy, could be either. Though probability says the other what with there being more of them.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Uh not sure what happened to my post there but response to the first bit was supposed to be "As far as they knew the wagon was on town, so maybe, maybe not"

[Chandra Nalaar]

Viomi is so scum. That town posturing is incredibly forced.

It really does hurt :/

I expected you to have anything to say about the fact that I just expressed a willingness to lynch you, which is not a terribly popular opinion.

I'd love to see this Beast wagon take off, this is something that needs to happen. I really feel like Bulba is a mile and a half up the wrong tree this game :/

I'm thinking you are just dumb.
I pushed for ruffling since my first few posts. And if you think I'm on the other team get a case going.

I will join this wagon though.

unvote
vote beastcharizard

[Chandra Nalaar]

Dear lord this post is so very wrong.

Way to regurgitate the chainsaw defense argument there guy. I nailed Ruflig and SqG on it earlier, but :trumpet sound(der-da-der): it was legit. This seems week and not thought out. I'm feeling Displaced and Vezok as the two remaining MUVA scum. MUVA having 4 players makes sense given the fact that one of their players was assigned to allow daychat.

Take more credit for something that barely involved you, please.

Yes, I'm sure you've managed to catch both the remaining two members of that scumteam neither of whom have any noticeable associative tells with either of the flipped scum especially when there is probably only one more. Good job, you get a medal!

AuntJ- I am seriously getting a town vibe from your slot. I see how you are trying to make connections and I like that. However, get off my nuts. The only people supporting your theories seem scum. I would say it's just you trying to push a lynch on a town. But you're giving details on your methods and I like that you are thinking about stuff. I'm town, I do think PerV and BulbaFenix are town, but it didn't come with out heartaches between us. Maybe you missed those, or you're calling them fake because that's what you want to believe, or you're doing it on purpose. Whichever, stop, Just because you're town doesn't mean you're exactly right.

Said captain humility who always stops to have reasonable doubts about his own theories. This paragraph just hurts. "Stop because you're not necessarily exactly right, but I know everyone's alignment involved". Please.

I still feel like Yates(TWIE), ZZZX, and UFN are on the "red team" but I'm getting some mixed feeling about Chandra/Umbrage.

Your team divisions are as far as I can tell really arbitrary.

I can't help but feel like I'm suddenly on your list just because Viomi is making it popular or something.

What do you guys think about a third faction?

No. A) Three scum teams is fucking stupid and barely even mafia anymore, no one would do that in a game not explicitly advertised as insane. B) Do you see three nightkills? I sure don't.

Chandra/Umbrage seem to be working together to try to get BeastCharizard lynched, but I'm not sure why. Chandra's social studies project from earlier seamed really shady to me. Both of them are tunneling on the same player all game. Maybe they're right, but every time BC says anything, they're both on him as scum. Chandra was down with lynching either Yates/ Rufflig (I seriously don't think Yates was bussing SqG) so there's the mixed part.

Wow gee it's almost like it takes more than one townie to lynch someone! Has it occurred to you that perhaps every time he posts it sounds scummy? Possibly because he's scum?
You're not sure why? Try reading my posts.
Yeah, I've been tunnelling on him all game if you ignore the fact that I wasn't on him at all for the first third of the game, during which I was tunnelling scum, and if you ignore that I've been talking about a variety of suspects and had my vote parked on Viomi several different times for a good long while.

I think BC is town. He hasn't been focused on the continuing effort to call him scum all game, he asks questions to certain people and then he drops it.

Yeah, not following up on your questions is sooooo town! What a glowing review

I would like to see his reads though and get an idea of where he's at so far in the game. I also think it's town that no one has really been voting him, but no one is particularly saying anything in his favor either.

Why is that town? Ignoring your scumbuddies is basically the default setting.

I think I just lost some brain cells.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I am so not fixing your quote blocks.

Thanks. Seriously, that team probably only has one more? How do you know which team has how many players. So far the theory is that one team has three and the other team has four. How can you know which team has what...unless you are on the team of four.
#MEDALRECIEVED

First of all, most everyone holds this opinion so I guess we're all scum by your logic.
Secondly, it's because Marvel scum have both flipped powers. It's probably 3 strong roles vs 4 weak roles vs town.

I F up as town. A lot of people Fup as town. It's what makes the game fun. Trying to figure if you are or aren't right. Getting excited when you are rght and being disappointed when you aren't. And OH yes, I called out SqG on the chainsaw defense, and said she was team mates with Displaced and Rufflig a long time ago. So, BOOM vote displaced on MUVA and add Vezok as the most likely 4th.

It's like you totally forgot the context. I was saying you do exactly what you were criticizing someone else for, so you should rethink your criticism. Also, cockiness from a newbie is really fucking annoying, you're allowed to do that once you produce results and stop making walls of moonlogic.

That doesn't prove anything, and I still have no idea why you think vezok is more likely to be on that team than the other.

Your on my list putting in ^^^^^Town^^^^^ markers. Probably means that your team doesn't have Daychat. Oh and because I think the BC case was wonky.

The fuck are you talking about? I'm not allowed to point out things I think sound town now?

Well I think it was bloody gorgeous.

Certainly isn't tunneling- especially when there are so many options to choose from!
#glowingreviews

This does absolutely nothing to counter the point I just made and it also sounds like you're saying tunnels are scummy which they are not.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I think Chandra is scum

Got a reason other than "she is antagonizing me right now"? Cause I seem to remember someone else developing a scumread on me for similar reasons!

Actually, am I correct in thinking the only people scumreading me seriously are exactly the people I've argued with at all and every one of them was after the fact (Ruff, Viomi, Josh, beast)? That's kind of hilarious.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Will you please make an effort with the damn quote tags

[Chandra Nalaar]

Encryptor and JailKeeper are strong roles? MetalSonic as town should indicate a certain mafia advantage to some degree, either in numbers or in PR's for balance.

I can't believe I'm still responding to this drivel but I guess I'm kinda invested at this point.
-Encryptor is enormously powerful.
-I expect that other team to be all goons with maybe, MAYBE a godfather or a roleblocker or something.
-Why should it? How is Metal Sonic's role strong, he's shooting townies. Also, you're assuming he is actually town, which makes one of us.

This is about you thinking that he's not MUVA, not about whether or not he's scum. With two people off the MUVA team gone, I really expected a lot more input from their remaining players. Displaced and Vezok have both been very accommodating.

No it's not. I /don't have an opinion about which scumteam my suspects are on right now/ because /I don't care that much/. What it's about is you making an assertion about which mafia team someone is on, an incredibly bold claim since we don't even know they're scum, and being completely unable to give me a reason why you believe this. Meanwhile, you continue to ignore figuratively everyone telling you there probably aren't 4 Marvel scum, and then there's the part where displaced is probably town.

Yea, keep notes. Share them as much as you want. It's where I came to the conclusion that "red" team was hunting "black" rather than towns.
Maybe you can show me how BC fits into one of the teams. Because at this point PerV and AuntJ are more likely to be on a team than Beast with anybody.

I don't /have/ to show you how he fits into a team because /one of the teams does not have any fucking scumflips yet/. Unlike you I am not actually arrogant enough, and I'm pretty arrogant in case you didn't notice, to believe I need to peg an entire four man scumteam before I start trying to lynch any of them.

They can be. It's up to each player to learn how to tell the difference between a scum tunnel and town tunnel. Town, especially at this point are more likely to have a few other options. There are at least 4 scum left, and possibly 6. Probably not on the same team.

Please, teach me how to tell the difference, o wise teacher who joined mafiascum a month ago. Let me learn from your ways. Have you any wisdom to impart, borne from your incredible volume of experience?
(PS if you have offsite experience IDGAF)

You and me both, displaced. I can only hope scum will get as tired of reading Josh and ZZZX's posts as I am and just shoot them.

[Chandra Nalaar]

-Putting town markers

Meaningless.

-OMGUSing BeastCharizard based on his FoS's against her and Umbrage at the same time.

You appear to have the order of these events backwards. That happened after Umbrage and I started pushing him.

-Her town reads after the Night Phase.

???

-Not willing to get in on the UFN wagon and disapearing, then springing to life for a Rufflig vote.

Rufflig was scum...

-knowing which team has how many players

Again, take this up with the fiveish people who said this before I did, I'm just agreeing with them

-you weren't antagonizing me, that I know of, before I thought you were scum.

This isn't something you dislike about me, and as far as I can tell it's also untrue because if you suspected me before just now you didn't really say it (as evidenced by the line YOU just wrote in 1865 indicating you thought it was a bad time to admit to scumreading me. I am not responsible for reading your mind.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Will you please make an effort with the damn quote tags

What do you want me to do with them? I hit quote tags around everything that isn't what I'm adding to the conversation.

quote tag. thing I said. end quote tag.
response to that point.

new quote tag. thing I said. end quote tag.
response.

Next time you quote one of my posts look at how I formatted it.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Getting on Ruff doesnt clean you since it gives us a chance of a bus or a 2nd scum team which is nearly confirmed at this stage

It's still not a reason to suspect me.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Unless you think my actions towards him explicitly look like a bus, which they don't, and besides I'm apparently on the other magical scumteam of random names.

[Chandra Nalaar]

And that's fine, albeit somewhat mystifying.

[Chandra Nalaar]

And that's fine, albeit somewhat mystifying.

[Chandra Nalaar]

@Josh: Closer. I can at least read it now. If you removed the big outside box it'd be right.

Response later, I have to finish up a project.

[Chandra Nalaar]

How is encryptor powerful? why not just give the Mafia daychat like it says in the wiki page about the role?
About MetalSonic, it's more likely that town has some sort of vig, even if it has been used retardedly.

It's strong by comparison. An encryptor flip probably means the other group doesn't have daychat, giving the group with one better coordination. And it turns out coordination is really really good.
If you could keep your opinions sounding more like opinions I would get less cross with you. The Metal Sonic question will sort itself out eventually I'm sure.

No I'm not. One of the MUVA scum was specifically assigned to allow Daychat. How does that restrict the team to three? Who else besides you is saying that they only have three? It's hard for me to understand you because I have given extensive reason why I believe there are two teams. And justifications for players on both teams. SqG's poor play comparing Yates to Pidgey because of Pidgey's RVS actually indicates that Displaced is scum, and a MUVA. The most important thing is that allowing your mind to consider two teams give much different reads than restricting to look for one team.

Please, please stop trying to tell me how to play mafia. It makes me want to smack you instead of responding. This is really patronizing. In my current state of having not slept I am increasingly liable to snap at you.

Balance. It's not two groups of four, because that would be too good, especially if the scum have abilities which they do and given the number of vanilla flips we've seen it doesn't seem like town has boatloads of power to counter them. At the very least Aunt J said this before I did, and I'm reasonably certain she wasn't the only one to come to this conclusion. 3v3 is still possible, but the small strong scumteam vs large weak scumteam thing is a reasonably common trope around here.
Okay, well I don't think that's a strong indicator that displaced is scum. And you still haven't given a reason for vezok.

Also, how is it scummy in your mind for me to suggest certain players on certain teams, when others have done the same thing. Particularly AuntJ, who regardless of what team she thinks I'm on, knows that I can't simultaneously NK both SqG and TheAd, but has now invented an entirely different team based on her thinking that ZZZX is somehow town.

It isn't necessarily. In fact you will notice I have not said I think you're scum once in this entire exchange, because I don't. But you're leaping to giant conclusions like they're facts.

I am trying to lynch them. I'm trying to lynch ZZZX right now if you didn't notice. I think he's scum, but I don't think he's MUVA. Maybe it will open up some other reads.

Good. That's what you should be doing. I don't agree re him being scum, but all the same.

Ad Hom. Just because I'm new to the site doesn't mean I'm new to mafia. Since you don't care, and are blatantly denying a difference in town tunneling and scum tunneling which are each based on different motives. It will be impossible to explain it to you since you clearly aren't willing to learn. Or you already know and are simply denying the fact.

If it's ad hom it's because I'm not in the mood for the condescending tone. I'm sure you aren't new to mafia, but that doesn't mean you get to walk in here and act like you're the best player in the game and god's gift to mafia.

Of course they're based on different motives. If you want to tell me your thought process on what the difference is posting wise, and I can read and see if I agree with your logic (I probably won't), fine. What I'm not interested in is the attitude that I should be learning from you because you're sooooo great, particularly while I'm having to explain basic shit like why there aren't eight scum in this game and why encryptors are good. I'll be a lot nicer if you can stick that where the sun don't shine and leave it there.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I don't think 3-3-1-X is completely out of the question either, but if there's an SK it's almost certainly Metal Sonic.

[Chandra Nalaar]

The problem with this lynch pool is that the only two names in there I see realistically flipping scum are Grinny and Vezzy. Zexxy is among my sweetest reads, now, and the other two remain outside my sourreads.

You keep doing this "I don't see X realistically flipping scum" thing. Townreads are wrong sometimes ya know.

As notation: I do not believe I already mentioned it, but Nally by now has moved into my sweet-reads list, and Ragey has too. Zexxy has moved from my sweet-reads list up to my central sugar core.

Bout time

This is good though, and not because it pertains to me-- I was starting to feel like your reads were too stagnant/inflexible, so it's a relief for this to happen unprompted.

In your case, you are doing so to sweet-read or sourread specific individuals. My sourreads are formed individually, and merely enhanced by these speculations.

See Josh you should learn from this, this is how you do it

At least early on in the game that is.

I am more than content with any dead scum. You and BulbyFenny are both hunting a specific scum, that being the surviving Marvel Villain.

This is actually kind of striking a note with me because of reasons. This is mostly a note to self. I guess that's something I'd be throwing in a neighborhood or something if I had one, but I don't so yeah.

[Chandra Nalaar]

beastcharizard 5 - ZZZX,Chandra Nalaar,Umbrage,TWIE,vezok

push push push

wagon wagon wagon

[Alternatively tell me it's not happening so I can go after vezok/rachmarie]

[Chandra Nalaar]

PEdit- Chandra, i could potentially get on charizard maybe, but what do you think of ZXXX the porno?

I have him as a town lean, but your objection is noted (but like actually). Your opinion is definitely not an unpopular one, I should probably try again to get a good sense of why not.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I feel similarly about Aunt J. My head says town, my gut isn't quite there yet.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Relevant reading re beast: 767, 813, 1776.

P-edit: Maybe. Welcome back, I was about to start complaining about your absence.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Nally, while I feel your exchange with Joshy is productive, in the chance that he were to be sweet, your back-and-forth is dominating the thread a bit more strongly than I feel is healthy. I would advise considering spoiler tags if you continue.

Said Mrs. I-post-extra-massive-walls-instead-of-making-two-posts.

I don't think 3-3-1-X is completely out of the question either, but if there's an SK it's almost certainly Metal Sonic.

No, deary. Sonny's shots do not come from a serial killer. Aside from play making it unlikely (lashy is no Tammy pressured to claim; he claimed willingly and without hesitation as a newer player), setups jason have run since then have nearly-always possessed a dayvig,

especially

in multiball.

Well, I'd be more likely to believe that if he'd stop lying about how many shots he has left.

[Chandra Nalaar]

(Not to mention I can't help but find jklash's replace out a bit odd considering he remained active onsite all the while)

[Chandra Nalaar]

I'm not gonna jump too hard into the middle of this conversation but I just can't not nitpick at this.

Stop saying you want to lynch me. I'm still town. Derp town, but town nonetheless. (I really need to sheepmore- but I'm not going to)

Like two posts ago you were a god of scumhunting and now you admit to being derptown??

[Chandra Nalaar]

On to page 70.

-Bulba

I am ALWAYS going to be paranoid of this since you did it as scum.

@Chandra- read on Bulb plox.

He always does that.

I lean town. His posts have seemed town motivated, but admittedly, at the same time he's almost extra pushy, I hate his reads, and the Kid A fiasco left a bad taste in my mouth but seems absurdly brazen.

What's the BC case? I guess its not impossible for him to come in and be like "I'ma sheep you!" to feed my ego.

Though I still think we should be lynching from Bulb or Rach.

Yesterday stuff + 1776.

I am beginning to suspect Rach might be the easiest thing for everyone to agree on.

[Chandra Nalaar]

(So I guess what I'm saying re Bulba is "I guess he could be scum, a lot of people seem to think so including some pretty good townreads, but I wouldn't want to lynch him today".)

[Chandra Nalaar]

(So I guess what I'm saying re Bulba is "I guess he could be scum, a lot of people seem to think so including some pretty good townreads, but I wouldn't want to lynch him today".)

why?

Mostly because I'm not very good at this whole "working with others" thing.

And in order for Viomi to be scum you have to believe that she read the "fake kill" took the time to know it was a fake kill, post a panicked post, followed by indigination, followed by calming down and that she would do all of such as scum. No, rather, Viomi, made herself lynchbait. And yes, I will defend folks that I perceive are being buzzed for crap. I however am not calling you, MS, scum. I do anticipate scum among the vote and as such provided my thoughts and placed my vote.

My thoughts at the time were that she was scum having an honest emotional reaction to a kill she thought was real.

My suspicion of her never was and never will be related to the fact of having a panicked reaction there, but the way in which it's gone about, maybe.

[Chandra Nalaar]

(So I guess what I'm saying re Bulba is "I guess he could be scum, a lot of people seem to think so including some pretty good townreads, but I wouldn't want to lynch him today".)

why?

Mostly because I'm not very good at this whole "working with others" thing.

And in order for Viomi to be scum you have to believe that she read the "fake kill" took the time to know it was a fake kill, post a panicked post, followed by indigination, followed by calming down and that she would do all of such as scum. No, rather, Viomi, made herself lynchbait. And yes, I will defend folks that I perceive are being buzzed for crap. I however am not calling you, MS, scum. I do anticipate scum among the vote and as such provided my thoughts and placed my vote.

My thoughts at the time were that she was scum having an honest emotional reaction to a kill she thought was real.

My suspicion of her never was and never will be related to the fact of having a panicked reaction there, but the way in which it's gone about, maybe.

and why would you conclude it was scum? What about such a reaction makes you think it would be done by someone scum. If you believe the reaction to be honest you have to believe that as scum she has no self-control. To me it reads like a person who gets a ton of grief and a ton of grief early, reads that and goes off as tired of the crap. Now if the reaction is not honest, another story. Sure there is a possibility of her taking a real emotion and manipulating with it, making it harder to read. She then would be very skilled con. I don't think so.

Maybe, maybe not. As someone who does this constantly as scum, I tend to not put it past others.

I was mostly concluding she was scum from other things (such as her OMGUSing me yesterday, as well as the things I had yesterday that led up to that). I don't remember whether I actually found anything scummy in the reaction or not, but I don't think it was incredibly important to me. I've got her as a nullish at this point.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Really don't like Chandra's sudden activity. If I had to guess, SG told him he had to be more active in the QT.

Whatever happened to this?

[Chandra Nalaar]

Quick meta question... has anyone seen metal sonic try that hard literally ever? I want to call him town and walk away after that.

Back to approving of the Viomi wagon, I was really surprised but Metal's case was actually reasonably convincing. I am pretty happy with either of the non-ZZZ wagons going through today. And I wouldn't be that upset if that one did, townreads certainly seem to have him as scum even if I don't, but they'd probably have to do it without my vote.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Don't tell me how to live my life

[Chandra Nalaar]

TWIE, why did your reads have to be dragged out of you and why is Umbrage in your top tier?

Does it not bother you that your entire top townread tier thinks I am town?-

[Chandra Nalaar]

Also, please explain your read on displaced or link me to where you have already done so

[Chandra Nalaar]

Umbrage is pretty town.

such argument very convince wow

[Chandra Nalaar]

No.

Why do I actually have to ask you to explain this

[Chandra Nalaar]

Why do I actually need to explain this?

They have reads.

I have reads.

My reads are not dependant on their reads.

I dont understand why somebody else thinking that you're town should make me believe that you are?

You think 4 players have a town role PM. They all think thing X is true. That's four people you comparatively trust who are all making the same argument. Why would you not care? It's kind of egotistical to not take things like that into account.

what gave it away? the part where I said I deserved towncred? damn you pick up on all the subtleties

I guess you missed the implication; that is, beggars don't get town cred.

Hes pretty town already though so....?

And I mean this is in figuratively my first content post in this game. You didn't ask about my Umbrage town read then... why do you need it now?

A) I didn't say anything because I didn't particularly notice
B) I was also writing off your slot at the time because Yates, I have since realized that is stupid
C) I need it now because you just posted an entire readlist with zero actual logic/reasons/opinions in it and I'd like you to prove to me you didn't essentially use random.org and/or town consensus to invent it
D) Why do you think antagonizing me is a better use of your time than answering the question?

[Chandra Nalaar]

Reaching? No, it would be reaching if I was calling him scum, but I'm not doing that. I'm trying to understand his thought process, but he is going out of his way to prevent me from doing so.

Okay, why do you not care about town consensus?

[Chandra Nalaar]

More importantly, why are you still dodging my questions?

[Chandra Nalaar]

You think 4 players have a town role PM. They all think thing X is true. That's four people you comparatively trust who are all making the same argument. Why would you not care? It's kind of egotistical to not take things like that into account.

This just in. Thinking someone is town automatically validates every read they've ever had.

First: No it doesnt.
Second: Because prior to this conversation you were my sixth scum read. Sixth. As in, not likely for be to be pushing on for a lynch. As in, would rather lynch the 5 people I listed before you.
So since I'n not currently attempting to lynch you, the amount of support that read has is fairly unimportant.
Third: Because if you refer to my read on you....

PEOPLE WHO WERE ALREADY LESS TOWN BUT THEN ALSO AGREED WITH METALS TERRIBAD CASE STRANGELY.
ALSO SOMETIMES THIS SLOT LOOKS REALLY TOWN AND SOMETIMES I REALLY WANNA LYNCH IT.

Chandra(Not a Relevant Planeswalker)Nalaar

You'll notice that I mention that sometimes you look really town and sometime I really wanna lynch you.
So I can understand if other people have a townread on you if the don't get the same pings from some of your posts that I do.

Mmkay, fine. This point was never important anyway.

And I mean this is in

figuratively

my first content post in this game. You didn't ask about my Umbrage town read then... why do you need it now?

I like this discredit. Its subtle but its cute. Solid tactic. Very town.

I have a browser extension that automatically changes the word literally to figuratively. It amuses me.

A) I didn't say anything because I didn't particularly notice
B) I was also writing off your slot at the time because Yates, I have since realized that is stupid
C) I need it now because you just posted an entire readlist with zero actual logic/reasons/opinions in it and I'd like you to prove to me you didn't essentially use random.org and/or town consensus to invent it
D) Why do you think antagonizing me is a better use of your time than answering the question?

A) Reading my posts would probably help you to understand my thought process.
B) Did you also write off Displaced who just said the same thing a couple pages ago? Why is my read important and not his?
C) Yep. Town consensus. That's what it was.
D) Not really an antagonizing post. If you're asking me questions to understand the thought process then why are you complaining when I ask you similar questions? It's relevant to know why Umbrage and Displaced are the only 2 names you were interested in on the whole list.

A) I don't believe they say much on the subject of Umbrage, and more importantly it should not be hard for you to give a quick sentence or two's worth of reasons upon request.
B) I already have a read on displaced, I am interacting in an attempt to get one on you.
C) You ignored the meat of this.
D) First of all, you weren't asking that question before, you just started asking it now. I picked those because in one case I don't agree, and in the other I think I do but it's not an incredibly popular opinion. And yes, continuing to ignore my direct question is antagonizing me. You can ask me similar questions, obviously, but I also expect you to answer mine. You have yet to answer one of them.

Reaching? No, it would be reaching if I was calling him scum, but I'm not doing that. I'm trying to understand his thought process, but he is going out of his way to prevent me from doing so.

Okay, why do you not care about town consensus?

Well you kinda are. Or rather you're setting up to do so. See: the discredit of my post, Your point B). If you wrote Yates off as town and now you realize that that was stupid what you're saying is that you no longer think the slot is town. Soooo.... what is this post?

I get very tired of being accused of "setting up to do things". Just because I'm prodding at you does not mean I'm going to come away with a scumread. Your characterizing it that way really does not help your case though. What's wrong with point B? I can't write you off because multiball, and I was letting myself subconsciously do so. Surely even you would not argue that was not silly of me. I didn't write him off as town; I wrote him off as not black scum, because of interactions, and I never had much of a serious read on him aside from that.

[Chandra Nalaar]

re Viomi towncase: I guess I agree that the reaction to being vigged makes sense with her otherwise displayed mindset, but all that proves is that she doesn't want to be killed early and will be frustrated if she is. Why does that indicate anything either way?

Nero I am older than you

We need more Beast votes.

You seem to have a strong opinion about this but somehow I feel like you didn't really enter the game by doing anything. This disappoints me. You did read everything correct?

Yeah I will chuckle all I want because this:

Cause I wanted to see his reaction to my naked vote, which I didnt actually get because you wanted my vote back on you for analysis you never did.

Is the biggest crock of retrofitted bs. If your reaction test was genuine, you'd have seen it out; instead you abandoned it because I told you to vote me? (And tbqh, even floating the whole play as a reaction test is fairly laughable but I guess you didnt have many straws at which you could clutch huh?)

You can think whatever you want. But using a reaction test to sort someone that I had at null is way less important to me than making my primary scumread take a hard stance on something. You did not do so.
My BC read sorted itself out.

Your reluctance to do what you said you would do has also solidified my read on you, and the last couple posts you made have also reinforced it.

Please keep making posts like this though. Then it will be way easier to get other people to lynch you.

I kinda thought that post was fine? :S

Why does everyone think that being town means your reads automatically don't suck?

The town reads are like the least important part of the list and thats what everyone is getting hung up on.

You're missing the point. Why are *you* so convinced that *your* reads don't suck but everyone else's do.

I'm trying not to get too hung up on this because I really don't care about it. I don't plan on coming to a clear decision on your alignment today anymore, I think waiting and seeing may be best.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Haven't caught up. But I'm gonna

UNVOTE

I wasn't massively happy with it in the first place, and I actually agree with TheWayItEnds, I thought Beast's reads list looked ok. To me it looked more like "lazy town" than scum. I'll vote the guy if we are struggling for a lynch, since I don't think he's gonna be a massive asset and there is a some chance he might be scum, but I'd rather not. My gut is telling me he is mislynch bait, a bit noobish, a bit naive, and thus ideal for scum to get lynched.
I'm probably gonna vote RachMarie.
But I'll vote after I've properly caught up.

Some part of me feels like this could be happening too, but I'm having difficulty convincing myself that my experience with beast elsewhere doesn't imply he's scum here.

At any rate that's kinda why I'm not trying too hard to shove this one down everyone's throat.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Maybe its just that I'm older and not as egotistical, but I think there's obvious benefit to listening to your team.

The high rate of mislynches begs to disagree.

Good luck lynching whoever you want to by yourself, then!

[Chandra Nalaar]

Episode 3: In Which Chandra Tries To Believe Anyone Can Legitimately Not Be Reading Her As Obvious Town

[Chandra Nalaar]

Oh cool so Umbrage is scum, glad we figured that one out

[Chandra Nalaar]

Bulba- Do you have a reason for listing Aunt J as scum other than you thinking her reads are wrong? That's not a very good reason.