Serum & Steel 2: The Rise of Phyrexia--Endgame

[Chandra Nalaar]

I'm starting to have 167 flashbacks.

How so?

I'm beginning to wonder if I'm just straight up defending all the scum again and helping them fight to lynch townies. I have few other ways to explain the weird dynamic of this game.

I am probably prematurely anticipating/fearing a mastin scumflip. Maybe I'll be vindicated instead.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I can deliver that.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Really, shame on you Tales people for not realizing what focusing on this game to the exclusion of others means for me.

*clears throat*

*glares at said people*

[Chandra Nalaar]

I know full well it's not happening.

Tattletale was never happening either.

My vote today is strictly vanity-based.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I don't actually believe they're scum, though.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Like, they're about as likely to be scum in my eyes as you are, and at that point, why bother?

[Chandra Nalaar]

I could probably vote massive or SKOT. I could buy either of them actually being scum.

[Chandra Nalaar]

[Chandra Nalaar]

mastin2,

Glissa Sunseeker

,

Mirrodin Aligned

Spark Bearer

was lynched day two.

I hate every single one of you.

[Chandra Nalaar]

The scum obviously wanted to kill muffin very very badly.

Because he's muffin, or because he was right?

[Chandra Nalaar]

I definitely think we should mass metal claim today.

Why.

[Chandra Nalaar]

skot, potentially panders, a couple other names im mulling over that aren't of importance to discuss today

ffery, please enlighten us?

[Chandra Nalaar]

Does this mean scum have a way of synthing by themselves?

Setup would be dumb if they didn't

[Chandra Nalaar]

skot, potentially panders, a couple other names im mulling over that aren't of importance to discuss today

ffery, please enlighten us?

(Heck, paraphrasing the whole thing or as much as reasonable probably wouldn't hurt?)

[Chandra Nalaar]

My serum ability was useful but not sadly not ball busting.

Is there any particular reason for you to not claim this?

[Chandra Nalaar]

I'm not sure what to do here, in no small part because I suddenly think everyone other than Trustworthy is scum.

[Chandra Nalaar]

mastin2(9): Kagami, pieguyn, pixel, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Pander Bears, Tattletale, sharpest-knife-on-tree, Magister Ludi, massive

I was hoping this would be some help, but I have a lot of maybe scumreads here.

[Chandra Nalaar]

VOTE: Sharpest knife on tree

[Chandra Nalaar]

^I think he's scum anyway + I'm sheeping muffin's corpse

[Chandra Nalaar]

(But I can't shake the feeling that something is seriously off here)

[Chandra Nalaar]

SERUM: Antihero

We need to know whether Trustworthy serumed Antihero last night before we do this.

[Chandra Nalaar]

After rereading our neighborhood, I think it's really important to metal claim today.

If what I realized is true, I agree that this needs to happen. The benefit must be measured against the information it gives the mafia, but I would support a mass metal claim that does not include high priority kill targets such as Trustworthy and Antihero. And it should happen today.

What is your reasoning for this?

Without saying exactly why, I think forcing the mafia to claim metal versus not metal as early as possible is valuable, and it may be possible to catch people who lie.

Given that a color cop might exist, I rather doubt scum will lie.

[Chandra Nalaar]

In fairness, those are kind of similar to the reasons I wanted to shove Ludi in the woodchipper.

[Chandra Nalaar]

The point of that post was "...and then we decided he was town."

But I'm not that torn up either way about these two, honestly. They occupy roughly the same region of my personal scumlist. Being right about SKOT out of the gate would give me good feels, though.

[Chandra Nalaar]

The point of that post was "...and then we decided he was town."

But I'm not that torn up either way about these two, honestly. They occupy roughly the same region of my personal scumlist. Being right about SKOT out of the gate would give me good feels, though.

This doesn't read like your reason for voting SKOT is that you're sheeping muffin.

Like I said.

It's both.

If I was voting entirely with my heart I would be on massive.

[Chandra Nalaar]

gut

And here I thought your schtick was being overly logical.

[Chandra Nalaar]

We should probably serum SKOT, if he is a watcher as claimed,

No.

i'm inflamed that i'm a stupid piece of shit that can't seem to get anything right either, but that's another issue

You may want to consider looking elsewhere if you want to change this.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Also tattletale is a strong townread based on his analysis d2.

What part of it didn't look like it could come from scum?

Tryharding is not sufficient reason for a townread.

[Chandra Nalaar]

[Chandra Nalaar]

Does being wrong about mastin not give you even a moment of conscience?

Oh, of course it didn't, because you already knew she was town.

[Chandra Nalaar]

(Seriously why am I the only one still upset about that)

[Chandra Nalaar]

Trustworthy- Those posts go together and are simply a summary of my reads.

It's basically accurate.

[Chandra Nalaar]

If you all lynch me and Pander in succession because one of us flipped town, I will be very cross with you.

[Chandra Nalaar]

F-16, do you actually have a reason for thinking your ability is strong? If I don't I would rather just serum Antihero again.

Serum: Antihero

[Chandra Nalaar]

pie pretty much just said that

It didn't seem like anyone was disagreeing

[Chandra Nalaar]

so post 3427 is chopped liver?

You appear to have a brain, but as you aren't being very proactive this game, I'm not super hopeful about it being a ton of help!

[Chandra Nalaar]

I'll assume you have a good reason for that.

At the very least it can't hurt for players who will never be nightkilled to claim it. I'm pretty sure I've already claimed not metal, but if I haven't, here you go.

As I don't see how this can be helpful to hold back aside from disguising metalness, I am also blue.

[Chandra Nalaar]

^someone remind me why I stopped attacking this

[Chandra Nalaar]

partial mass claim

I'm not opposed to this. "Claim what you think your serum ability is and/or tell us the name of it so the Magic players can figure it out" probably couldn't actually hurt very much.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I don't think we should have universal townreads claim metal, but I can see having a good portion of the game do it.

Now we have enough info to know who that is.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Do we want to try giving me popcorn powers and see if anyone goes along with it? *shrug*

[Chandra Nalaar]

Ceph, i have no idea what my ability does and anyone can claim that theirs could be cool or powerful or what not. I guess we'll find out when i see it. Also, since you are reading me as town, i dont get your objection. Anti's role is moderately useful and a known quantity. I dont mind seruming him again if he wants but i want to see what other abilities people have in store.

Is there anything to lose from naming the ability?

[Chandra Nalaar]

Pie, i'll comment on your analysis in more detail in a week or so but one thing i was thinking of was that it is possible scum might defend mastin either weakly or strongly to distance from a mislynch. Anyone aware of muffin's 100% accuracy would take that into account if they were town i think.

did you notice CN was WK'ing the shit out of mastin the entire D2?

LOL

I knew someone would eventually try this, and I'm not surprised it was you.

First of all, let's not deny that you'd be trying to paint me as mastin's scumbuddy if she flipped scum. We all know you would be, so pretending otherwise is ludicrous. So, basically what that boils down to is "if you defend anyone else, you are scum". In that event, why didn't you call me scum for defending mastin before she flipped? And, more importantly, I'm going to have to suggest that if you believe this, you have never seen me play mafia before. I know you were in NY 169, and saw me try to throw myself in front of a bus to save Casso. So... what gives? Oh, right, you're scum is what gives.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I do it all the time.

That one just proves you should be aware of it.

[Chandra Nalaar]

the point is CN was saying that if I was town, I should unconditionally see him WK'ing someone, remember "oh he did this in one of his town games", and then automatically assume he's town for it.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

I only said that it's a stupid reason to paint me as scum.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I can talk about Mhork a bit. Now, Mhork basically has to townread me if he's scum, so I don't care about that. I'm theoretically a very easy buddy for him to make, though I was determined to keep my distance and be careful this time around. I also don't care about him being abrasive, which I usually view as a towntell, because I have watched him fake that and/or genuinely get upset as scum. What I really do like is the fact that a large percentage of his play revolves around me. He's constantly interacting with and talking to me, and gets visibly distraught when he doesn't agree with my reads or thinks I have crappy reasoning. This is what I expect from a genuine Mhork. If this gives him a road map to wreck me in future games, so be it. Also, I know what his serum ability is, and it's fairly town. I'm not totally ruling out him playing me here, but I don't think that's happening. I don't think he'd focus on me as carefully, as I don't know why he would even think to fake that to the extent he has.

Also I'm going to blatantly buddy Chandra because god fucking damnit I'm going to play a game with ceph where we can be buddies

And so it begins. This is a genuine sentiment, and there are indeed games where this didn't get to happen (one in which I had to replace out, one in which he died early).

I like you, Chandra, Mastin (blech), and trustworthy town right now.

I like reading mastin as town whilst doing nothing to secure good feels from her.

Mastin if mafia is doing that to you, don't play. Seriously I did not come to this game to be lectured about PTSD. It's a fucking game. It's meta. In the grand scheme of life, it's one single large them that no one will care about in a year

However I guess only town you would freak the fuck out like this

See above.

I'm not a troll...

Town. Mhork doesn't like having his opinion devalued.

Anyway I'm at work but my town read on Mastin is sufficiently shaken

I see little scum motivation in letting this happen for flavor reasons, especially as it never transitions to moving in on mastin.

You're doing that thing where you're a paranoid dumb >.<

Rawr

Serum: Chandra

Town.

I'm irritated ceph. I wanted to play with the ceph I knew before, not a character :/

This might be the towniest statement in this entire thread.

I'm attacking Chandra's town read because I think it's mostly wishful thinking masked as gut which she is wont to do. It's the kind of town read she has actually lost games with because once she thinks she knows the player is town, she locks on and ignores evidence to the contrary. I'm attacking because she is better she can play much better than that

If Mastin is scum, Chandra will help her win the game with this blind ignorance. Mastin scum is not out of the question. Yes I think Mastin is probably town, but she is far from confirmed. I think she's town, I wouldn't he surprised if she were to flip scum. That is how I feel about Mastin

Blah blah mastin read flipping blah.

I could go on, I'm like a quarter of the way through this iso, but I really don't need to.

[Chandra Nalaar]

SKOT's vote is incredibly scummy.

I'm not convinced there is any point in trying any harder to fight this. I'll probably do it anyway because I'm stubborn.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

[Chandra Nalaar]

*shrug*

Antihero your tone is off and weird. You sound hostile and I can't tell if it's you being scum and trying and failing at affecting a town tone or if something poured sour milk in your Cheerios.

Regardless you're not doing anything but bitching and that freaks me the fuck out.

You don't need to know what I'm doing. You obviously aren't reading the game or you'd know. That pings church bells as well. I'm so lost on why you're not reading the game.

I think this needs to be thought about very very carefully in my absence

[Chandra Nalaar]

If I get a dying wish, rather than trying to shove my scumreads down your throughts, I'll settle for "please don't put on blinders and lynch Pander Bears tomorrow without so much as a thought".

[Chandra Nalaar]

PS this is probably the last of me you'll see that isn't blind with massive rage, because I haven't read that case yet, and I expect I won't be able to see straight once I do

[Chandra Nalaar]

I'm a Hoverguard Sweeper, Mirrodin aligned Emergency Control.

My ability is "unsummon" (all comments I made about my ability will now make sense, fancy that), which makes me almost assuredly either a jailkeeper (useful) or a delayer (not useful).

[Chandra Nalaar]

You'll note that my card is plural, but I am not. Could be relevant to another claim down the line.

[Chandra Nalaar]

So, he'll get lynched and he'll flip whatever he flips. If he's town, tomorrow Mhork will yell at you all for lynching someone he's been saying was town from day one. And the people who are full steam ahead on their reads will continue full steam ahead on their reads without for a second wondering where they went wrong. We'll lynch Pander Bears tomorrow regardless of Chandra's flip. But if Chandra flips scum, I suppose people will start wondering where Mhork went wrong on his town read. Or they'll consider Chandra and Mork decided to scum buddy each other. Who knows.

QFC (quoted for Cassandra)

[Chandra Nalaar]

Good isos to read:
Me (I am getting lynched today)
SKOT (scum)
massive (scum)
Pander Bears (everyone else thinks this is scum but it isn't)

[Chandra Nalaar]

You should probably sheep my opinions after I die.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Also Tattletale (short read, possible SK)

[Chandra Nalaar]

Yeah, but he's not going anywhere, so what's the point

[Chandra Nalaar]

I guess it could be worthwhile to see how shitty the case on me is

[Chandra Nalaar]

FWIW, if I'm bussing, I'm bussing. I could not possibly give a damn what particular role my partners have. At no point does that ever enter into my thought process.

[Chandra Nalaar]

That could also explain why Antihero investigated someone completely useless rather than mastin.

[Chandra Nalaar]

why exactly are you bailing on the chandra wagon now?

short version: my reads are starting to mirror mastin'

alright, i see f16 is taking the defibrillators to the chandra wagon. guess i have to read what that's all about...

Also Chandra is still major town.

really?

that's pretty tenuous...

@Piegyn, really, just whiteknighting? That's just basically saying fuck you I'm scumreading CN regardless. That's a pretty rock solid towncase on Chandra. Hell it's so solid even obvscum ABR got off, so I doubt you're scum but you're just being stupid.

no it's fucking not and if you're town you need to absolutely not fall for this shit at a time like this.

as a specific point, vezok wasn't in any danger of getting lynched the entire game, so there is no reason scum CN wouldn't say smth like 1599 in order to try to look town - and given vezok's playstyle, it makes him a prime WK target for scum, so there is plenty of scum motivation in defending him. the same thing goes with everything else - you claim it's town motivated, but none of it affected anything and at the end of the day all it did was make him look town.

there is literally nothing hard to fake or even extremely town motivated there

^

[Chandra Nalaar]

Good one.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Albert B Rampage(10): Tattletale, PeregrineV, Chandra Nalaar, mastin2, Lord Mhork, Titus, vezokpiraka, Pander Bears, Magister Ludi, Trustworthy
mastin2(9): Kagami, pieguyn, pixel, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Pander Bears, Tattletale, sharpest-knife-on-tree, Magister Ludi, mastin2
Chandra Nalaar(5): Antihero, pieguyn, vezokpiraka, sharpest-knife-on-tree, F-16_Fighting_Falcon

No one has been on all three of these. *shrug*

[Chandra Nalaar]

2. Why are they currently voting you?
3. Who are their other scum candidates?

2. Antihero- has been calling me scum all game for no discernible reason
vezok- was calling me obvtown at one point? I don't know what is up here
pie- shitty case, and because he is scum
skot- because "scummy actions" or something. lol.
f-16- this is not the scum on this wagon. has a pretty believable trajectory on me.

I don't know who any of their other scum candidates are, but I can't be arsed to check. You can bet pie doesn't have any others though

[Chandra Nalaar]

Ceph, if you are townreading me and unsure about anti, why do you prefer he get serum as opposed to me?

It *was* because I was following the "anti has to be town because he is a rolecop" hive mind and that ability is good.

However, you make a compelling point.

Serum F-16

[Chandra Nalaar]

I'm glad today because I'm traveling so I can't give dv as thorough a hug as I would like right now.

Hopefully a VOTE: massive will serve as an acceptable substitute for now.

[Chandra Nalaar]

VLA. Not glad. Phones are hard.

[Chandra Nalaar]

The beautiful thing about all this is that I don't actually have to argue with you 8 order to be right. I am automatically right by virtue of having a town role pm. It's a pretty good feeling.

As I would prefer not to be lynched I'll still argue later but man, I should really try rolling town more often. If imagining me feeling really smug about this makes you feel bad, please do so.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Is a train really a good place for me to probably become extremely angry? Eh, I have nothing better to do.

[Chandra Nalaar]

1. Titus interactions

- Titus was hard defending CN from me ever since I came into the game. CN had several posts that were trying to defend Titus and/or attack ppl for attacking her: e.g. 487, 560. he was also one of the ppl pushing Titus/Trustworthy as a town pair at the start of the game: 154 "are you implying what I think you're implying", 156 (in response to Titus claiming it was anti town to explain it), 164, 170

-Everyone thought Titus and Trustworthy were a town pair.
-In those early posts, I thought they were claiming masons.
-Me chainsaw defending townreads is hardly news.
-I maintain that Titus' posts were pretty damn town, and this has increased my respect for her scum game. She won't get me so easily next time.
-Titus was white knighting me.

2. at least one of {CN, pander bears} is scum

- the ABR, ML, pander bears, and CN wagons D1 don't work with both CN and pander bears being town.

I have always thought VCA was bollocks, and I still do. There is no counterpoint I can make here except "well we aren't so shut up".

3. D1 vote on magister ludi scum-designated mislynch

- self explanatory

Yes, town never vote for mislynches. You are so right. Also, I don't remember who was on the ML wagon at its height, but you're going to have to back up this assertion by pointing out who's scum on that wagon.

Ludi was not clearly going to get in any sort of trouble when I joined the wagon. I really, really liked mastin's points against him, so I joined in. Pretty sure I was the second vote.

We also don't actually know Ludi's alignment, though I do believe he is town at this point.

4. his initial reason for scumreading me was the way I was pushing him. however, he said absolutely nothing during my entire mastin push, nor did he say anything when I was pushing him back on D1.

I probably mentioned a glimmer at some point on D1, but that's not particularly important. In general, I don't dispute this.

i. despite thinking townies have doubt, he didn't question his town read on my slot until D2, despite the fact I was pushing him since back on D1. but if he was town, and was wary of pushes on him, I'd expect at least some comment about it back when it actually happened, and there's literally nothing - no "huh, are you actually scum?", no "you seem awfully confident", no fucking doubt at all.

You came into the game swinging, and that's fine. I expected you to take a step back at some point and think after continued exposure to me.

ii. he completely MISSED my entire push on mastin, and is still claiming I wasn't pushing her. for this to work, he would have had to have missed all of my several posts where I push her, as well as the fact that my vote was on her as opposed to him, for p much the entire game day.

And this is where I'm going to start getting pissed off.

I saw it.

I felt that I was pushed harder.

I am not going to write another paragraph about this, because I already did, like, twice. You've chosen to ignore this and assume I am lying about having read the thread. Which is stupid. I always read the thread.

iii. he still hadn't committed to scumreading me until I had been pushing him for a while D2, despite calling my posts "grade a bullshit" and addressing me in a way that is very clearly hostile tonally for a while before that (e.g. 2963, 3034, but then in 3042 he's apparently still not reading me as scum)

You'd be hostile too if you were getting attacked this way, regardless of how you felt about the attacker's alignment.

iv. when I continue to pressure him about missing my mastin push and it became clear he couldn't answer it, his next defense was "bah, I'd do that as either alignment".

I answered it. Several times. You had committed a greater portion of your time to attacking me. Having read your posts, I saw more attacking of me than of mastin. You can argue, if you want, that I simply pay more attention when I see my name, but I don't think this is actually what happened. I really do not care whether you think this is true. What I said I'd do as either alignment is perceive myself as having been the more attacked. If it was clear, as you claim (wrongly), that you were pushing mastin harder than me (not the case), I would have nothing to gain by lying about it.

there is no fucking way all this could possibly be true. there is no town aligned logic that explains this, bc he is scum and his reason for pushing me is bullshit - he just made it up in response to me pushing him, in order to

manipulate me into discontinuing the push

.

How on earth would scumreading you be an attempt to get you to stop? Has that ever happened in the history of mafiascum? You just wanted to throw the word manipulate in here somewhere to make Tammy feel better.

OK, so it's not blatnatly fake, because it isn't fake, because I'm town. If you honestly believed it was blatantly fake, I would be a bigger scum read than mastin. And the "nuh uh" argument I just made is just about as valid as yours that my mindset is "blatantly" fake when clearly no one else thinks I am mind numbingly obvious scum.

there are 2 problems with this post:

1. as I said, just one thing being blatantly fake isn't enough to automatically make someone a stronger scumread than anything else. someone else might have done smth even more telling, meanwhile the thing that's "fake" might be the only reason I think a certain person might be scum. the logic here is way oversimplified and shallow as fuck.

I do not think you understand what "blatantly" means.

2. he completely missed the fact that

I also thought mastin's posts were blatantly fake.

so even if this was correct, it still wouldn't apply here, bc I had thought mastin's posts fit the same criteria. this answer fails the logic test.

This is the first I've heard of this. I feel the need to point out that if mastin's posts were blatantly fake, you know, she'd have flipped scum. Which, you know, didn't happen. Good thing you saw that and continued attacking me without stopping to take a breath. That makes sense.

I LITERALLY JUST FUCKING SAID

THAT I DIDN'T FUCKING MISS IT

AND IT WAS NOT STRONGER THAN YOUR PUSH ON ME

BECAUSE WITH MASTIN

YOU SOMETIMES LET HER POST WITHOUT SAYING OH MY GOD THIS IS SUCH OBVIOUS SCUM

AND YOU DON'T RUN AROUND PUSHING EVERY PLAYER WHO POSTS TO VOTE HER

LIKE YOU JUST DID TO PANDER AND BASICALLY EVERY OTHER PLAYER BEFORE THEM

I've already explained the problem with this post, but to reiterate: this answer fails the logic test. he claims I "don't run around pushing every player who posts to vote her" - however, he completely missed the fact I hardly had to put any effort into getting votes on mastin. not to mention, when I did have to push for votes, I did.

This post does not fail shit.

I felt more attacked than mastin because you constantly rush around trying to gather votes on me. How much effort you had to put into getting votes on mastin is, in fact, exactly the point: this is you admitting you have been putting more effort into pushing me, which is exactly what I have been saying.

This isn't that difficult. If you say someone is "obviously scum", by definition you can't be the only one saying so.

the implication of this is that it's impossible for anyone to hold the opinion anyone else is obvious scum, while everyone else has a town read on said person. this makes literally no fucking sense

I don't think you understand what "obvious" means.

LOL

I knew someone would eventually try this, and I'm not surprised it was you.

First of all, let's not deny that you'd be trying to paint me as mastin's scumbuddy if she flipped scum. We all know you would be, so pretending otherwise is ludicrous. So, basically what that boils down to is "if you defend anyone else, you are scum". In that event, why didn't you call me scum for defending mastin before she flipped? And, more importantly, I'm going to have to suggest that if you believe this, you have never seen me play mafia before. I know you were in NY 169, and saw me try to throw myself in front of a bus to save Casso. So... what gives? Oh, right, you're scum is what gives.

the logic here basically goes like this:

i. there's no way he could WK someone as scum;

No. I didn't say that in this post. That is not there. I dare you to find that in this post. Go ahead, bold it, and I'll self-vote.

ii. if I was town, I would automatically remember him WK'ing Nacho in NY169;

You should remember that regardless of your alignment.

iii. then I would somehow know he couldn't WK anyone as scum, as opposed to thinking he might be able to fake;
iv. since this is not the case, I'm scum.

You appear to be under the impression that the point of my post is "I cannot possibly be scum". In reality the point was "this is not a legitimate reason to scumread me, try again". You are exaggerating this position, like all my others, to make me look bad.

at the same time, he supposedly thinks I'm scum who is capitalizing on mastin townflip to make him look bad. however, F-16 was the one who brought up the possibility of scum WK'ing mastin, not me. he supposedly thinks I'm scum, was planning on pushing him as scum after mastin town flip, and then didn't actually push said angle after mastin flipped town because....... ?

You've conveniently snipped out the post where you did exactly that. The post I responded to was accusing me of WK'ing mastin. Plain and simple.

it is highly unlikely he, as town, managed to go through all these stances and not realize exactly how half of them didn't work. he's full of shit.

No, u.

6. 3141/3142 - none of this looks like it was thought through at all - reads as scum coming up with reasons to scumread someone after the fact.

if we fuck around and lynch someone else today, I feel like tomorrow will basically be another day that entirely consists of "let's lynch mastin" and I don't feel like dealing with that. this is even more so the case if zmuffin gets killed.

hedging

the first post is two fold bad:

1. hedging is p much entirely a playstyle tell
2. his answer fails the logic test. he claims that I'm trying to look better in light of mastin townflip. question:

after all the noise I made about mastin being scum, how would ONE POST 3139 make me look any better if mastin flipped town?

it wouldn't. he is not actually thinking through this, bc he is scum scrambling to come up with a scum read on me.

1. I am not aware of this and don't recall seeing you do it, but even if this is indeed playstyle for you, that would only make my post poorly researched, rather than scummy.
2. If you talk about "the logic test" again in this post I will come over there. And of course it would make you look better, psychologically. It's doubt. That's the moment of "oh wait maybe there is some chance this is flipping town" that basically any townie should usually have in response to any lynch (it's just a question of whether they bother to post it, except in extreme cases).

a mastin lynch would also clear a lot of things up as opposed to a Tattletale lynch - OTOH mastin scumflip means pander bears is town.

>implying you aren't 100% certain mastin is scum
>you are clearly 100% certain I am scum
>but no you totally don't want to lynch me today

that makes sense

the 2nd post is weak as fuck - as I said before, there are several things that determine how good a lynch is that isn't just the strength of one's read on a player (e.g. momentum). the reasoning he presented here is extremely shallow, and he knows this.

You should push your #1 choice up to the point at which it becomes clear something else is going to happen instead.

I will admit, at this point I was pretty much looking for reasons to snark you.

on the other hand, when scum feel the need to make up a scumread on someone, they will generally use reasoning like this out of convenience. they'll take whatever posts happened recently and find a way to twist the evidence to make it look scummy, without actually thinking through, explaining, or trying to understand the mindset behind any of it. the way he went about his read here is p much exactly scum taking an approach like that. in particular, the nitpicking about who ppl want to vote/lynch is just a terrible angle and not smth I generally see from town. on the other hand it's smth I see all the time from scum bc it's convenient and requires literally no effort to point out or push.

I am acknowledging that these words are here. I do not especially have anything to say about them. At this point, however, I no longer needed to try to understand your mindset. I've been done trying to work with you for quite some time now.

7. 3182 is just..... god what the actual fuck. literally nothing in here at all is town.

I could run through the entire post and explain what problem I have with each individual part, but tl;dr: none of these actually address any of the arguments I was making. it's scum debate strategy 101.

Saying that means nothing.

in particular:

This isn't that difficult. If you say someone is "obviously scum", by definition you can't be the only one saying so.

You did bring up some reasons for that, and I pretty much completely trashed them because they were horrible reasons

bolded is just the worst line and i never see it coming from town. on the other hand, this is typical scum behavior - continually deflect and dodge, while acting like you actually answered all the points against you.

I did answer them. Congrats, you've apparently just seen someone thinking they rebutted a case while they were town, for the first time ever. Funny, I thought you had played mafia before!

8. despite going on and on and on about how I'm scum and how my posts are "manufactured", he has done literally nothing to actually push a lynch on me.

from a town POV, if you think you're seeing smth in a consensus townread everyone else is missing, you don't fucking roll over and go to push a lynch on SKOT. you fucking make a bunch of noise about it and convince everyone to see the same thing you see.

Hypocrisy. By this logic you should have continued pushing me rather than settling for mastin.

No one is going to see what I see. It would take being on the receiving end of this garbage. No one can actually understand how a particular tunnel feels unless they are the one in it.

however, that's not what he's doing here. look at his ISO starting from D3. there is literally no effort anywhere to try to get any votes on me, despite the fact he's been spending a majority of his time calling me scum. on top of that, there is literally no effort to even question ppl on why I'm town, or work with anyone else on the read on me at all.

Nor will there be.

this is, again, bc he is blatantly lying to push his scum read on me, and he knows I'll own his ass if he tries it.

If I were scum and you were not, I would be distinctly not afraid of the consequences of mislynching you. I probably couldn't do it, and I still would not try. I was going to say I'm not here to rave like a crazy person to no one who's listening, but that's basically what I'm doing right now, so I can't really say that.

incidentally, his other scumreads are SKOT and vezok, both easy targets. how the hell does this add up from a town POV? oh wait, scum look for easy lynches that don't take much effort, so it makes sense.

-SKOT and massive, not SKOT and vezok, though granted vezok could be scum too (but I am aware that I have read him as nullscum multiple times before as T/T and am doing so again here, so...)
-Said the guy whose only suspect is the easiest target of all.
-Pander Bears would be a much easier target, but they aren't scum, so I am not lynching them.
-I would push harder lynches if I had any sway, but I do not.

9. blatantly contradicted himself re: read on me.

he says in 3182:

It actually is. Town don't do things that are "obviously fake" period, so I am forced to assume you are exaggerating

and it's p obvious based on his mindset throughout my entire push on him he thinks I'm full of shit. however, he then proceeds to vote Tattletale and claim Tattletale is "more likely scum than me". even now he's still pushing for a SKOT lynch over a lynch on me.

Yesterday, I felt this way. Now, I would still say SKOT is more likely scum than you, and I'd put you and massive on equal footing. I have not claimed to be 100% certain you are full of shit at any point (well ok, you are definitely full of shit, but it could be town shit, hypothetically).

flipping this around, if he is capable of thinking my posts are fake but thinking Tattletale, and more recently SKOT, is more likely scum than me,

he has no reason to think me thinking mastin is more likely scum than him is scummy

. see a pattern?

Nope.
I *think* your posts are fake. You claim to *know* that my posts are fake. There is a big difference.

not to mention, when you combine this with the mindset from 8, it literally makes 0 sense - he thinks my posts are fake, but apparently has at least 2 ppl (SKOT, vezok) as higher priority targets than me. lmao

Again, degrees of certainty, and again, you are not a lower priority than massive, but he is far more lynchable.

10. there is hardly anything in his entire ISO that seems genuinely town motivated.

on a general level, when I read most of his posts I see a lot of words, but the actual content is extremely shallow. there are also a shitton of filler questions that have no followup and accomplish literally nothing. the very first town motivated thing I've seen him do was his effort in explaining his reads on pander bears and recently Mhork (and even then Kagami had asked him to do it), but before that, literally nothing.

I could go through his entire ISO to back this up, but I implore you to just do it yourself instead. for the first like entire page of the ISO, there's a complete lack of in-depth analysis on anything.

I'm not known for being a particularly good townie. You'll find I ask questions and then forget I ever did pretty regularly as either alignment, though. I am not a cohesive or logical player. I ask questions to get a player to say more about a particular opinion or thought process. Most of the time, they could never answer, and I probably wouldn't notice.

tl;dr: I don't see where the town reads on CN are coming from. he is really fucking obviously scum - literally everything (play, VCA, interactions, behavior, etc.) points to him being scum, and his push on me is consistently coming from a scum mindset.

And yet this role PM says otherwise. Tell me more about hw really fucking obvious it is, it amuses me.

[Chandra Nalaar]

That caused a lot less rage than I expected.

[Chandra Nalaar]

which I feel is a stronger point now that the Chandra-alt thing is becoming less of a factor (at least that's the impression I'm getting).

It turns out she doesn't hold up very well under pressure. She kinda needs to be obvtown in order to function.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I'm not bound by the rules of progression when I'm getting lynched.

On a more serious note, I've had misgivings about you all game. I attributed this as being the same misgivings I've had about you in our other games. We just don't seem to get along.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Also, don't you have something to say about all the discussion of how you've handled your role? Or were you hoping to just jump in with a potshot at me and run away?

[Chandra Nalaar]

Also, don't you have something to say about all the discussion of how you've handled your role? Or were you hoping to just jump in with a potshot at me and run away?

if people have someone who they want me to investigate, they'll serum me, but the idea hasn't take off with the people who actually play magic so.... what?

Are you reading the thread?

[Chandra Nalaar]

vote count updated

PeregrineV(0):
Antihero(0):
massive(2):

Pander Bears

,

Chandra Nalaar

pixel(0):
Kagami(0):
Tattletale(0):
Magister Ludi(0):
Trustworthy(0):
Pander Bears(2): Tattletale, Lord Mhork
Vezokpiraka(1): massive
sharpest-knife-on-tree(1):
pieguyn(0):
Chandra Nalaar(4): Antihero, pieguyn, vezokpiraka, sharpest-knife-on-tree
F-16_Fighting_Falcon(0):
Lord Mhork(0):
No Lynch(0):

Not Voting(6): PeregrineV, Magister Ludi, Trustworthy,

Kagami

,

pixel

, F-16_Fighting_Falcon

oh look, all my scumreads are either sitting on their asses with no vote or are on the counterwagons to scum.

and what's this...?

PeregrineV(0):
Antihero(0):
massive(0):
pixel(0):
Kagami(0):
Tattletale(2): vezokpiraka, PeregrineV
zMuffinMan(0):
Magister Ludi(0):
Trustworthy(0):
mastin2(9):

Kagami

, pieguyn,

pixel

, F-16_Fighting_Falcon,

Pander Bears

, Tattletale, sharpest-knife-on-tree, Magister Ludi, mastin2
Pander Bears(2): Lord Mhork, Pander Bears
Vezokpiraka(1):

Chandra Nalaar

sharpest-knife-on-tree(0):
pieguyn(0):
Chandra Nalaar(1): Antihero
F-16_Fighting_Falcon(0):
Lord Mhork(0):
No Lynch(0):

Not Voting(2): zMuffinMan, Trustworthy

the overlap is amazing

10/10 great job

[Chandra Nalaar]

Not much. I glanced at it at one point but I don't recall much of it. I knew it was a sequel because it has "2" in the title.

[Chandra Nalaar]

did you remember the blinkmoth nexus was the serum giver?

No.

and when you looked at the original setup, was this pregame or sometime during the game?

During.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I imagine this is probably about the mason thing.

Eventually, it became clear they were not masons, so that is not the entirety of the reason I was defending Titus, if you thought I was saying that. But it is what I meant by "are you hinting at what I think you are" or whatever.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I don't remember exactly when I looked, I think someone mentioned or linked it. Possibly during the first sk discussion.

I'll have to look back for the other question.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Which might not be for half an hour or so. This phone hates me right now

[Chandra Nalaar]

As much as I want Chandra to be town, I think I'm getting to the point where the game makes sense with him as scum.

It felt better when I thought it then after I typed it though :/

This is why I'm concerned about how this game will end after today.

It doesn't make sense.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Forgot to say this here I guess. Pretty much phone posting for a few days.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Chandra's identity isn't hard to figure out, but what can be made of knowing Chandra's identity is where the challenge lies; I don't know how much of my love/hate relationship with Chandra is off of the main and off of the alt, since the two do have differing styles. (Which is, ironically, basically exactly what Chandra says. Baseline exists, using it might end badly.)

Chandra's an alt? Aww fuck...now that adds bias interpretations to the posts that I won't see...

Kind of wondering here why Titus isn't asking who Chandra is.

Since I can address this quickly. I'd have thought she already knew, on account of me having alt slipped in multiple games with her so I don't even know why that was ever a surprise.

[Chandra Nalaar]

And to anyone else: I have mentioned a few times I'm on somewhat limited access and am phone/posting so I don't have huge blocks of free time to fight each and every battle. I'm keeping up to date but if you need something long and counter-antagonistic it might be a ways off. I'd be curious to hear if Chandra really thinks I'm scum or is just fighting the "enemy of my enemy" fight, and I think part of Pander's case is "if he thinks I'm scummy why isn't he voting for me" so let me fix that.

unvote
Vote Pander Bears

Pander's cases are convincing, I believe they are town, and POE. Yes, I think you're scum.

his play doesn't seem as *smooth* as in Tales

I think there are pretty distinct differences between actually flustered me and fake flustered me, and most of my emotions tend to be fake when I'm scum. The fact that I'm not scum-with-daychat should at the very least be quite apparent, as having a scum QT to complain in is theraputic for me and probably contributed to this. No idea what Nati tends to do re: daychat though.

This bothers me. Nati has the day chat thing in the rules, and i'm pretty sure it's been mentioned in this game already. (that would require me to actually re re-read for that specifically and engggggg, but I think it's already been mentioned.)

It might not have been mentioned before I say this, I don't know. I sure as hell didn't read the opening posts though.

Okay so remember how Chandra was like oh if Mastin and I were scum together we'd pretend to be paranoid of each other? that is pretty close to how he behaved with Mhork. Now he expected Mhork to town read him (ftr he expressed this in a non-manipulative tone which he has displayed when expecting Nacho to town read him when he's been scum.) But it did take him a long time to actually read Mhork. I'm not sure what this means, but it's something I noticed as feeling kinda meng.

Don't waste your time barking up this tree now, I'm going to flip town.

The thing with Chandra is have you noticed the level of omgus? He pushed muffin as scum when muffin was pushing him. He's doing the same with pie guy today. It almost feels like he's getting frustrated with being scum read and is lashing out and calling most people who scum read him as scum. IDK.

I recognize that this is a thing that is sort of happening. I backed off muffin D2, though. I will not back off on pie as long as we both live, even if I'm not actively pushing him.

But I feel like I could vote Chandra (out of pure utility because I don't think it's going to stop being a thing unless there's confirmation), Pander Bears (they just feel ennnnggggggg. This is another one I hate to scum read but I don't feel great about), Massive (though every time he posts I feel better about him, but worry he's third party); there are others I could vote for but I'm holding on to this because I don't want any narrowing down of what I'm going to do.

It would be really awesome if we could lynch someone aside from me and Pander today and use the night phase to do something to clear one or both of us. Alternatively, if I'm lynched today, for the love of fuck someone needs to investigate Pander because I feel now like Mastin probably did yesterday. She knew she was going down and I was the day 3 mislynch. I'm going down now and I know Pander is the Day 4 mislynch, though like she was, I am not completely certain of that read, but it definitely feels like that's what's going to happen. This one wagon shit has got to stop. And I probably can't do any more to prevent this than mastin could have.

OH but apparently scum don't have a role blocker OR we've serum'd scum the past two days. But seriously, they couldn't be sure what the roles were that we serum'd and they decided not to kill the people we made prs?

There is absolutely no way there is a non-serum-based scum roleblocker in this setup. That would make the mechanic pointless.

Cephrir, can you walk me through your read on antihero? it felt like you had no prior suspicion of him before you agreed with tammy's point. also, if you dont mind, explain why you created this alt and what you wanted to dow with it.

Early on I knew I had a history of wanting to scumread Antihero, so I went with everyone else's townreads even though I didn't feel like he was doing anything. I have basically been ignoring the fact that I didn't feel like the slot was being very town because no one else seemed to not see him as town. Now that I'm clearly dying, I might as well voice my concerns, and Tammy made a good point. Also, I didn't think of it at first, but role cops are scummy.

On Chandra:
The point of Chandra was to be a better townie than Cephrir, sort of, or at least a more influential one. Since I think I may retire her after this now that I know I can't maintain her under pressure, here's how she's supposed to differ from me.
-She acts more confident than I actually feel
-Plays aggressively and abrasively.
-In order to sound confident, I tried to curtail my usual excessive use of wishy washy weasel words.
-Massively stream-of-consciousness posting. Chandra speaks her mind when she thinks of things. This results in frequent octuple posts.
-I'm pretty sure there was one more thing (I keep a list of her attributes next to me whenever I post as her because it's difficult for me to manage naturally, but it's at home and I am not).

serum antihero
Synth pander bears

Is the entire game scum that doesn't want to bus? Lynch chandra goddamit.

Antihero is the only one who has his head screwed on right now.

Dumb or scum? I still can't tell.

Chandra's identity isn't hard to figure out, but what can be made of knowing Chandra's identity is where the challenge lies; I don't know how much of my love/hate relationship with Chandra is off of the main and off of the alt, since the two do have differing styles. (Which is, ironically, basically exactly what Chandra says. Baseline exists, using it might end badly.)

Chandra's an alt? Aww fuck...now that adds bias interpretations to the posts that I won't see...

Kind of wondering here why Titus isn't asking who Chandra is.

Since I can address this quickly. I'd have thought she already knew, on account of me having alt slipped in multiple games with her so I don't even know why that was ever a surprise.

Why didn't you point it out at the time?

I don't know. Ongoing games, but I could probably have safely commented.

@CN:

another question: when would you say it became clear they weren't masons?

This is an acknowledgement that I will go back and decide this as soon as I finish this post.

to clarify the logic there isn't that CN is necessarily 100% scum, but that one of {pander bears, CN} is scum. the timing of the votes makes me think CN is more likely tho

If you are town, please take this as a lesson that VCA is a terrible scumhunting method. And I don't even know how the fuck you are drawing these conclusions (don't bother explaining though, I truly do not care).

when I say "nowhere" I mean it had 0 votes. it's true ML had a bunch of suspicion on him and was #scumposting, but look at the timing and the composition of the wagon. Titus was one of the first votes on there and a lot of the wagon came from the ABR wagon which was scum driven. it's a scum driven wagon.

however, if pander bears and CN are both town, scum has no reason to bother creating a 3RD mislynch wagon. there is no reason that wagon would have existed the way it did if they could have gone to push both of {pander bears, CN} for a mislynch instead. on the other hand, it's infinitely more likely scum was pushing it as a counterwagon to whichever of {pander bears, CN} is scum.

Titus was fighting really hard for ABR lynch, but if they had 2 mislynch wagons available, what would the point in doing that be? instead she parks her ass on ABR and doesn't move off until mastin votes ML, despite the fact that the ABR wagon was hardly going anywhere at all.

You are attributing a lot more careful thought and manipulation to the scumteam than they, in all probability, actually have. If one of us is scum, why not just lynch the other?

Aaaaand what if the third (mis)lynch wagon was town driven?

[Chandra Nalaar]

It would be really awesome if we could lynch someone aside from me and Pander today and use the night phase to do something to clear one or both of us. Alternatively, if I'm lynched today, for the love of fuck someone needs to investigate Pander because I feel now like Mastin probably did yesterday. She knew she was going down and I was the day 3 mislynch. I'm going down now and I know Pander is the Day 4 mislynch, though like she was, I am not completely certain of that read, but it definitely feels like that's what's going to happen. This one wagon shit has got to stop. And I probably can't do any more to prevent this than mastin could have.

I wonder how long this cycle will continue before the tattered remains of the town wake the fuck up.

Seriously.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Yeah whatever. Oh I wanted you out of the game so I said I was going to policy lynch you, then I read your iso and magically decided that my intent to policy lynch you turned into a scum read.

PULEASE. Nobody buys that bullshit.

And, I'm not going to give you a detailed explanation for why I'm. That's stupid and I believe you know that.

Also, are you serious. You actually think that two scumbuddies decided to tie themselves to each other at the start of the game for no reason whatsoever?

We're not getting lynched. We're both town. I was looking for the person in my role pm, which is why I asked a question only that person would know. Mine is a town role, I don't see why scum would have this role, so I'm pretty damn convinced Titus is town too.

pedit: yeah i know nobody takes him seriously. I have no problem with him trolling the game and voting me for policy lynch. My lynch isn't going to go through. What I'm concerned about is his threat to take me down if he goes down. I refuse to let someone ruin this game because they don't like that I was allowed into this game and decides to hurt town in the process because he can't grow up and is butthurt he didn't get his way.

This post is approximately when the masonry possibility starts to fade, though if they claimed masons after this post, I would probably still have believed it

[Chandra Nalaar]

-I'm pretty sure there was one more thing (I keep a list of her attributes next to me whenever I post as her because it's difficult for me to manage naturally, but it's at home and I am not).

I remembered; it's playing more to my gut.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Jiffy, I am an alt of cephrir.

[Chandra Nalaar]

By the way, pander massive is not now and will never be scum theater. If either flips scum ever the other is clear barring sk issues.

[Chandra Nalaar]

No one is forgetting about your pet mislynch

[Chandra Nalaar]

I think the people on my Wagon who aren't scum, whichever the are, have stopped reading my posts. I've been hemorrhaging town for days

[Chandra Nalaar]

Let me try the skot pie strategy and see how long it takes before everyone gets as sick of it as I am

Need more massive votes please

[Chandra Nalaar]

'Cause ceph is town and there are way better lynches.

Why aren't you voting massive

[Chandra Nalaar]

I'd like to lynch one of the people on the CN wagon. Can I get a rehash why each vote is there currently?

Have you considered massive?

[Chandra Nalaar]

Hi f16, looking for a wagon? Why not massive?

[Chandra Nalaar]

Hey skot it's ok to bus massive now

[Chandra Nalaar]

Am I really fucking annoying yet?

[Chandra Nalaar]

Titus
Trustworthy
Phantom- I could be getting burn(_209)'d here but I currently feel very good about this.

mastin- if my best defender is a scum-mastin, I'll be really sad.
massive
Mhork- I haven't seen his scumgame outside of IRC, so I don't know exactly what to expect from it, but this is beginning to feel like the Mhork I'm familiar with. And that doesn't include the townreading of me (scum-Mhork would be very stupid to suspect me, as it would literally be a scum claim), but rather the defending, though he could be doing it more.
F-16- mostly for steve. Actually, entirely for steve.
Antihero- frustration is fairly real, but also different from the town Anti I've seen before.
PV- standard "I don't think you're scum yet" PV read.

Pander- I have very little confidence in my ability to read DV, but I think they've been attacked unfairly at times.
pixel- Just not sure how I feel about them.
Tattletale=vezok (dead null)
Muffin- Played with you twice, this looks way more like the scum game. Mastin's read prevents you from being lower.
SKOT- I've backed off and liked some of his recent posting, but not enough to completely shake what I felt before.

ABR- I'm beginning to buy what Mhork is selling here.
Kagami- Just all around ew.

Magister Ludi- why isn't this scumfuck dead yet

also now I'm wondering about this post

it seems like it's coming from an angle of buying into Titus/Trustworthy being a town pair - most of the reads have reasons but he didn't bother listing any for them. but given he also left out the reason for the massive read, I don't think it means anything :/

The idea that you are still "wondering" about anything I post is laughable.

[Chandra Nalaar]

On Chandra:
The point of Chandra was to be a better townie than Cephrir, sort of, or at least a more influential one. Since I think I may retire her after this now that I know I can't maintain her under pressure, here's how she's supposed to differ from me.

-She acts more confident than I actually feel
-Plays aggressively and abrasively.
-In order to sound confident, I tried to curtail my usual excessive use of wishy washy weasel words.

-Massively stream-of-consciousness posting. Chandra speaks her mind when she thinks of things. This results in frequent octuple posts.
-I'm pretty sure there was one more thing (I keep a list of her attributes next to me whenever I post as her because it's difficult for me to manage naturally, but it's at home and I am not).

you have no fucking right to nitpick over me calling you "obvious scum" when you're using these as strategies.

P.S. Watch me.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Hey <whoever posted last>, why do you think <skot/massive/pieguy> is town?

[Chandra Nalaar]

Because I think you <should vote them/should reconsider/are their scumbuddy>.

[Chandra Nalaar]

CN has been calling me scum this whole time for deathtunneling him. but then I post what I was building up to with my line of questioning, decide it doesn't actually mean anything, and he calls me scum for NOT pushing him over it.

No, I'm calling you scum for pretending you arent deathtunnelling me when you obviously are.

The townie doubt towncred ship has sailed. You can't get any by jumping into the water where the ship used to be.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Also,

@everyone: if you read one thing I post, read this

If anyone reads a single one of my posts this game, make it this one.

I lol'd

[Chandra Nalaar]

Let's pretend I remembered to change the post number

[Chandra Nalaar]

along with Titus, there was almost def another scum on the first ABR wagon that turned into the Ludi wagon - and there is literally no logic that explains the scumteam avoiding both existing mislynch wagons, and then pushing a 3rd mislynch wagon as a counter to both pander bears and CN, if they both are town. it makes literally no sense whatsoever.

You have yet to answer why the Ludi wagon can't be town driven.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Are we lynching chandra faster please?

There is literally no reason to try to lynch anyone else.

I agree, the scum have no reason not to lynch me here, unless they are all on me already

[Chandra Nalaar]

When the same exact people who are pushing me today are pushing pander tomorrow, wake the fuck up

[Chandra Nalaar]

When the same exact people who are pushing me today are pushing pander tomorrow, wake the fuck up

Can you give a list of your current reads and the basis for them?

I'm not gonna help you not read the game.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Fine. Later.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I'm not mad, Kagami.

I'm just disappointed.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I think Skot, [...] are town too

[Chandra Nalaar]

I will, but I'm running out of energy here.

It's difficult for me to care if this town wins anymore.

[Chandra Nalaar]

If SKOT is scum, then presumably he was non-metal scum who figured that claiming metal would evade a possible lynch and also waste a synth; but if wasting our synth is valuable to scum, then shouldn't you be advocating that we synth?

Why can't he just be metal scum

[Chandra Nalaar]

In case we have some way of finding out if they're metal, like a color cop?

[Chandra Nalaar]

I suspect the blinkmoth nexuses are the only lands in the setup.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I forgot about that. Still, you can't fakeclaim metal if you're black.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Here's a brief read list. I don't care enough anymore to attempt detail.

Trustworthy- obvious reasons
Mhork- 3484
pixel- looks like standard ffery to me at this point
F-16- very clearly town trajectories and thought processes all the time
Pander- 2685; 3615

Majiffy- this slot has done nothing since my last read list, nothing has changed
PV- this slot has done nothing ever, but moonlogic PV (see: majiffy vote) is my favorite PV
Kagami- this slot has done nothing ever but I have enough scumreads at this point to discount it

vezok- Looks like the same one I scumread in kotor. He wasn't scum. I'd feel better if he did literally anything but tunnel me.
Tattletale- Lurk lurk lurk, burst of logic because I'm in trouble, go back to lurking. Prime SK candidate.
Antihero- See my recent posts on this subject

pie- For consistently misrepresenting me amidst a slew of attacks on me that fucking reek, unjustified overconfidence after mastin flipping town, not interacting with other players except to constantly prod them to vote me, deliberately trying to piss me off, I could go on but there are several really lovely walls full of my rage
SKOT- I regret backing off him D1. Vote on me is flagrantly opportunistic, and I don't understand why he's getting away with it.
massive- iso pander, ctrl-f massive

That is approximately all the effort I can muster at this time.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I don't get why that's strange, but titus was NK'ed and her flavor shouldn't be metal.

Because muffin explicitly flipped metal

[Chandra Nalaar]

[post]2865[/post*

[Chandra Nalaar]

2865*

[Chandra Nalaar]

Part of me is concerned I'm going to die and see a Mhork/DV scumteam and feel manipulated and depressed.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Ceph what so you think of pixel? I'm having gnawing feelings of it being a UTR scum slot that I'm not paying attention to :/

This is pretty typical of ffery. I think.

How confident are you in your town read on DV, ceph?

You can tell by my placement on my reads list; not completely confident, but enough so that I feel lynching them is only marginally superior to lynching myself.

[Chandra Nalaar]

This is pretty typical of ffery. I think.

(It should be noted that I have never actually played with scum ffery, but, playing kind of a behind the scenes role is definitely not a scumtell for her)

[Chandra Nalaar]

This is pretty typical of ffery. I think.

(It should be noted that I have never actually played with scum ffery, but, playing kind of a behind the scenes role is definitely not a scumtell for her)

(NY 167 doesn't count as a mafia game)

[Chandra Nalaar]

This is pretty typical of ffery. I think.

(It should be noted that I have never actually played with scum ffery, but, playing kind of a behind the scenes role is definitely not a scumtell for her)

(NY 167 doesn't count as a mafia game)

I was gonna say.

I'm around but I'm kinda meh about this game right now. :/

I kinda don't think you're scum but I don't feel all that confident about not thinking you're scum.

Is it actually possible for you to ever be confident about not thinking I'm scum?

[Chandra Nalaar]

Part of me is concerned I'm going to die and see a Mhork/DV scumteam and feel manipulated and depressed.

I feel the same about Mhork/Chandra!

I can say with certainty that I'm town though, so no need to be worried about me if you are, though this probably doesn't help and may make things worse. Hmmmm.

^town DV posting.

I think.

[Chandra Nalaar]

[Chandra Nalaar]

DV, you are the best. <3

I don't know why anyone would want to let us down.

[Chandra Nalaar]

man that massive bandwagon looks scary. But I'm just not believing that most of the scum team is on that wagon.

One can say a lot of things about my play, but I think it'd be pretty tough to analyze my interactions with Mhork or Pander and say either of them is my scumbuddy. As far as I can recall, I've never behaved in so blatantly positive a manner towards a scumbuddy.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Majiffy feels pretty town for not wagon hopping.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Majiffy feels pretty town for not wagon hopping.

Really? I have a paranoia-tinged townread on him atm, but it's not the lack of wagon-hopping driving the read.

Partly, yes. I also like his posts in general, but I recognize I could be biased there.

[Chandra Nalaar]

A vote from you would be pretty helpful in corralling all the nonvoters somewhere.

Preferably somewhere that isn't me.

[Chandra Nalaar]

(Or Pander. The cuteness quotient is seriously off the chart right now.

I want that to mean something.)

[Chandra Nalaar]

*reads own posts again*

...Yeah, wow, why am I not getting townread?

Like, some people are using the "I can never trust Ceph ever because he's a good scum player" excuse and, actually, I am okay with that. Maybe because it's decent logic, or maybe because it's flattery, not sure. Everyone else, uh, hello?

[Chandra Nalaar]

This one kind of points out that Mhork thinks you are town, and only town Mhork thinks that. Since this logic is akin to "He has the letter 'h' in his name.", at least form my PoV, do you have anything that is NOT related to you but is related to his play?

I think you're missing the point. It's not him townreading me so much as the way he constantly looks to me and focuses on me (because we're close out-of-game) that I think is genuine

[Chandra Nalaar]

The first post belongs to Antihero.

It was supposed to be 2865, my town case on Pander

[Chandra Nalaar]

Nulls. OK.

Nulltowns really

I get the same impression in terms of activity. But, I want to find where you called them on it and if they responded.[/quote[
Just about everyone has pointed out that Tattletale is lurking and many have said he;s SK-ish. He has ignored this, as far as I know.

I can do some of the other stuff later but I have a mish mash game to start

[Chandra Nalaar]

btw plz plz plz look at the ML/ABR D1 wagons. I've explained this already but tl;dr: Titus along with {CN, SKOT, Mhork, PV} were consistently pushing an ABR wagon with 5 votes. when that failed, they went to go push a wagon on ML (literally everyone from the first ABR wagon with 5 votes joined the ML wagon down the road).

however, during all of this there were 2 wagons on CN and pander bears which remained mostly constant. if both {CN, pander bears} are town, there is no logic that explains the scumteam avoiding both of them as mislynch wagons and then piling on the ML/ABR wagons instead. it makes absolutely 0 sense - thus at least one of {CN, pander bears} has to be scum.

what are your thoughts on this?

For approximately 14th time.

-Why are you assuming ML is town.
-You are assuming the ML wagon was not town driven for no particular reason. Titus was there, but who cares? Titus make strange decisions on a constant basis.

[Chandra Nalaar]

[Chandra Nalaar]

You're going to have to start over and fully explain the scenario because there's a lot of shit in here that probably requires backinfo I don't have and don't feel like looking up.

(No, it actually just doesn't make sense. It's based on the faulty assumption that Titus does things that "make sense" and are clearly scum motivated)

[Chandra Nalaar]

One of these wagons is going to have to dissolve, and the four people doing nothing with their votes should probably do something with them

[Chandra Nalaar]

:3

[Chandra Nalaar]

P.S. PV, The chances of us lynching Majiffy today are less than the chances of me driving off a bridge on my way home today.

There are no bridges within 10 miles of any part of that drive.

[Chandra Nalaar]

there is almost def another scum among {CN, Mhork, SKOT, Tattletale, PV}.

this was never logic

[Chandra Nalaar]

If SKOT is going to be a real wagon, I have no issue switching to it.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Except that it might make DV sad.

If so, though, I'll happily try again tomorrow.

[Chandra Nalaar]

VOTE: Sharpest knife on tree

[Chandra Nalaar]

I hate all of you btw

[Chandra Nalaar]

[Chandra Nalaar]

You know what, no. I am not taking this lying down.

[Chandra Nalaar]

VOTE: Pander

Serum vote is settled. Not voting synth.

What changed here? All that happened was Trust pointing out SKOT isn't hard to lynch.

Since when has that mattered? I'm lynching people for having scum role PMs.

[Chandra Nalaar]

*discontent intensifies*

[Chandra Nalaar]

I present to you...

Sharpest Knife on Tree Is a Member of the Mafia
An Original Treatise by Chandra Nalaar
Mafiascum School of Scumhunting, Aug. 24, 2014
All quotes from the autobiography "I Rolled Scum This Game", by Sharpest Knife on Tree, pages 1-105

All theories contained within belong solely to the author; all rights reserved, but she hereby pre-approves all requests to use her arguments for lynching scum, which falls under fair use. In layman's terms, "sheep me".

Mm yes the classic early game townie points bid! What do you think on the self-serum vote though? I agree with my head that I don't think it's scummy, really a fairly null read to me at this point, steve!

I also think it's null. But you gotta start somewhere and what's the point of defending people you nullread if you didn't see anything scummier so far?

My aim was to attack SKOT's logic rather than defend vezok.

it was a reaction, I never said there was logic involved...

This is a pointless deflection that also happens to not be particularly true.

I find it hard to believe that you can't come up with the obvious counterpoint to this statement.VOTE: SKOT

personally I find self-voting for things of benefit to be self-involved and not looking for the good of the town. It is not something I would do. I do not see how that played out helps town at all. It is to me like advocating to win an election. It is politicking and doing so hard. Why you do not understand that reaction is eyebrow raising to me.

A.) One serum vote is not meaningful and it would obviously be open to change
B.) There is no scum motivation either, it accomplishes nothing (this is obvious)
C.) It's not actually politicking when no serious suggestion was made for everyone else to serum him

You can raise your eyebrows from the dead QT

really, really, you are going to go that harp on shit, and tunnel route? Seriously?

I react to self voting for benefits, period. I find it to be lousy play and ulterior motives and usually does have it in my experience. Why you coming hard at me after one reaction, one vote. It is one reaction, I get reactionary. I have not even campaigned for veko, like you have started now on me. I made a vote and my format probably was screwed up so it didn't take. Oh and by the way, the strong reaction has prevented any probing on my end, because one thing I do, is find a reason to examine something and push. Now, I would like to give you the benefit of the doubt and consider you as probing here but your tone says otherwise.

First of all, "you're tunneling me" is a shitty first reaction to an attack. He doesn't really address my points, either. As I look back through this iso, I think I see why I backed off, and it makes me feel really stupid. We'll get to that.

Here the OMGUS begins. You will find that SKOT's "read" on me seems to be determined exclusively by my read on him. It's a warning- I might just be probing, and he wants to "give me the benefit of the doubt" -- ie that I was not attacking him, because if I was attacking him, that would indicate that I am scum. This will continue to be the sole drive behind his opinion on me.

Little from column A, a lot from column B (Column B is the one where you're actually scum). It's working pretty well.

well I am not scum. So you are saying you are going to chainsaw and tunnel vs probing and the standard harping on shit.

Here we go again, presenting me like I'm explicitly choosing to tunnel him not because of my read, but because I want to. But without quite calling me scum, because I can still, as it turns out, be salvaged.

I think you are over using PTSD there but you may have had a really hard experience in the game and developed related anxiety and over-reaction like you would if you experienced a car accident. The best way to deal with that is continued exposure, which you appear to be doing by playing. really that clam is that you are hypervigilant and overreactive.

If you had a degree in psychology I would revoke it for this sentence.

LOL, I am a licensed psychologist. PTSD is a diagnosis that involves human experience over and above what is normal. I could go one to explain more details to you. Experiencing a traumatic game does not qualify as criterion for PTSD. It would however be a form of anxiety that is similar. Now would you please tell me why you reacted in such a way to that sentence? You are really showing your ignorance, or are you referring to simply unedited typos. I don't edit, I do types, sometimes I post as I think. It is unrelated to my degree. And mastin is claiming she is hypervigilant and overreactive, and yes I did miss the I in claim.

This post was part of my back off. It looks like nothing, but it actually made me feel like I looked stupid. This sounds dumb, but just thinking about my own way of going about things, I think this played a role in my step-back, and I wish it hadn't happened.

Is Chandra mafia?

given the play so far, probably not. Note I am not voting Chandra but the exchange was enlightening. Now if he keeps on picking then maybe I change my mind, but he can certainly pick away to his hearts desire. I had seen enough from my first encounter to sit back. Now there is a remote possibility of being co-scum with veko and going hard chainsaw but I doubt it.

This post is absolutely terrible, and I'm upset at myself for not jumping on it when it happened. Just look at it. Look at it with your eyes. I don't even need to say anything.

tattle could be scum

Useless, but it's as close as he gets to an opinion about most slots

Vote Titus because;

0. weak RVS attempt on an easy player
1. Latches and holds onto one suspect. (possibly OMGUS)
2. Has a lot of irrelevant posts and filler
3. Turns around and suspects whoever is accusing him
4. Frequent use of so called 'weasel words' in attempt to discredit the person not the case.

0-null
1-null
2-null
3. null
4. null

vote Mast Lud

I believe there was something said about this wagon being scum driven. Wanna bus yet pie?

vote Phantom...

because

This post is followed by a series of posts refusing to explain it. I think this is cheeky scum seeing if he can get away with doing something for no reason; either that or, since phantom had just made his first substantive post of the game, perhaps hoping to start a wagon by drawing attention to it and hoping someone else would find a reason. I shut him down though.

That didn't look like a town stream-of-consciousness ramble to you? I don't think it's particularly correct but that's how it looks to me.

I have not stated the reason for the vote... I only said I voted because...

No, but you did make a face when I said it was pretty town.

yes, I did...

^this is legit all that's ever said about it. WTF?

back to

vote ABR

I think, looking at the votes

Looking at the votes? Does he think ABR is actually scum??? This vote flops around between ABR and pander a bit for literally no reason at any point.

actually reading over that quote segement I think Pander is really a good vote... they also had a weird exchange with titus at one point.

Vote Pander Bears

Oh wow, a weird exchange with Titus? Maybe you should point out what it is to us, so we can think your argument is even marginally real! Nah, jus

you know, speaking of meta arguments, this doesn't look like town-peacebringer.

at all.

you would be mistaken, yet again... keep trying though

Has this changed? Does anyone actually think this looks like SKOT's town meta? I only have two games with him-- ASOIAF, where he did nothing in a way much like here and was eventually replaced, and an ongoing game that would really help my case if I could talk about it.

SKOT

, nothing else to add other than that?

nope, nothing else to add. Do you want me to repeat over and over to vote in the direction I am voting?
I am comfortable with my vote. I don't feel a need to poke at anyone at this point. Nothing being discussed that I have an opinion on.

SO I seem to have lost it but he's now voting for Pander I think. In fact, he'll go on to vote Pander a lot of different times. He votes ABR like 3 times and Pander like 3 times. Since he was apparently so convinced they were scum, you'd think he might show the slightest interest in getting anyone to ever join him.

Go through his iso if you want; you will never find anything of the sort, not even a reason for either vote. Not even a BAD reason aside from 1120.

eh, enough is enough

vote ABR

The town is getting fed up with ABR's shit? I'll join in without even saying he's scummy.

vote: master Ludi

still keeping an eye on pander

Any way the wind blows,
Doesn't really matter to me, to me

Mama, just killed a man
Put a gun against his head
Pulled my trigger, now he's dead

holy game moves--
ML claim that I didn't see?...

vote Pander....

................................

VOTE: Pander...is where my vote should be.

Is it? Is it really.

going back to VOTE: vote Pander

ooooooooooooookay you gonna clue us in here ever or what

synth skot

I don't really buy the claim.
Also I'm not seeing scum mastin. Maybe 3rd party mastin, but not scum.

such a scum sounding post,

vote vezo
synth vezo

please tell me vezo, what you dislike about my claim. Add in I know nothing of the theme...

He doesn't buy my claim? OMGUS.

My head hurts.

The way mastin feels about her lynch wagon is the way I feel about the SKOT synth wagon. I'm not super worried we're throwing the game away (as I don't think SKOT was the potentially-metal-blocked NK target) buuuuut I also think I'm relying more on flavor as a crutch than most. It just seems like a convenient target that claims to be metal and without the synth wagon, might be hard for scum to remove.

I have no mastin experience so every time she says "there's no way scum mastin would do X" I feel like she's trying to hit the superfecta for scum tells in one game.

massive is town, or sucking up

So... massive is playing in this mafia game, basically? Please continue to regale me with you refreshing insight and protown perspective.

vote mastin

we cannot keep feeding antihero serum, look at the rule imo...

HE'S LITERALLY NEVER MENTIONED MASTIN.

AND THIS IS MASTIN.

THE GAME DEFINING PLAYER.

HOW DOES ONE HAVE NO OPINION ON MASTIN AND THEN VOTE HER?

ONE IS SCUM IS HOW.

vote chandra...

scummy behavior imo

Ah, the odyssey begins anew.

WTF it is should not be this difficult. Read over chandra and if you think the slot is town I have swamp land to sell you. And if you are not going to lynch him, then please lynch me and remove me from the ongoing idiocy.

His most convincing argument to date, which is literally "read her posts".

[Chandra Nalaar]

[Chandra Nalaar]

Oh, I forgot, you'll notice his recent vote on me for "scummy behavior" comes in the wake of me going back to scumreading him

It's flagrant self preservation, everyone who scumreads him must die

[Chandra Nalaar]

half the arguments for not lynching him are basically going to amount to "too scummy to be scum". think about that before you make them

[Chandra Nalaar]

All aboard the bus pls, he's useless anyway, don't worry

[Chandra Nalaar]

You're already conftown you butt, now what do you think of the wall I just posted

[Chandra Nalaar]

someone interact with me pls

[Chandra Nalaar]

I'm here, but I'm on autopilot. I'm not going to post anything meaningful tonight.

But, if you want to hear about how sad, frustrating, scary, boring, or generally shit my last three months have been, I have pent up vent about ready to blow the top off my scull off tonight.

Aww...

*hug*

[Chandra Nalaar]

He is easy to lynch.

But...this isn't a reason to not lynch someone

[Chandra Nalaar]

chandra, mhork, pander are close with each other.

Hint: This is largely because of our out of game relationships

[Chandra Nalaar]

I do feel though that dv is the polarizing figure among the wagons. People are going to vote dv or not-dv. Not-dv here will be a lurkish player who no one is townreading, is uncharismatic and an overall easy "default" lynch. They'll be lynched in order to save dv. Thoughts?

On the one hand I am blatantly doing this.

On the other, rereading SKOT's ISO made me really, really want to lynch him. More than massive.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Like, it's been a while in this game since I was this passionate. Probably not since, well, the first time I tried to lynch SKOT.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I'm tempted to volunteer to be lynched if SKOT flips town.

[Chandra Nalaar]

I forgot you replaced phantom.

[Chandra Nalaar]

(But even if I didn't, I can still think you're scum while admitting a possible scenario where you're not)

[Chandra Nalaar]

Hm. That's disturbing.

Anything in your role PM about that DV?

At least if he were to flip scum, that would practically clear all the magic players -.-

[Chandra Nalaar]

I dont understand why people are synthing pander

Their claim is very likely to be metal

[Chandra Nalaar]

synth pander

vote chander or just vote me out of this game of idiots

I still think SKOT could be scum, but this is the kind of thing that makes me hesitant. I can relate a lot to this post if you replace chandra with massive. This is only a more extreme version of my own feelings.

But did you do it right after a case was posted on you without so much as acknowledging its existence.

synth pander

vote chander or just vote me out of this game of idiots

I still think SKOT could be scum, but this is the kind of thing that makes me hesitant. I can relate a lot to this post if you replace chandra with massive. This is only a more extreme version of my own feelings.

No, it doesnt make any sense. Skot has no emotional investment in getting chandra lynched because he put forth no effort or analysis to drive that lynch. Frustration comes when your efforts turn out to be futile. What is frustrating him exactly?

seriously, I have pointed out my thoughts. You don't want to listen to it and want to chase stupidity. And please do not tell me that I am not analytical enough because I don't go quote mining or other things people do to pretend to examine stuff. Chandra is bad and essentially it is declaration of bad all that people really do anyway. I am irritated and annoyed with this game to the nth degree.

You actually have not pointed out your thoughts.

I have literally no idea why you are voting for me.

[Chandra Nalaar]

(Actually I do, it's because I've figured out you're scum; but I have no idea what you're pretending the reason is)

[Chandra Nalaar]

Does anyone else have a New Phyrexia watermark? And want to admit it, of course.

Anyone with a new phyrexia watermark who's town should claim right now

[Chandra Nalaar]

ok then. what do you think about the fact THEY OUTRIGHT CLAIMED THEY'RE NOT METAL?

It's weird.

If anyone else is a colorless card and not metal, I would like them to claim.

[Chandra Nalaar]

ffery: this symbol.



If you have this one, it's New Phyrexia. If you have a circle with some lines at the top, it's Mirran. It's also possible to have neither.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Also, fwiw, the ability on this has a pretty good chance of being strong

[Chandra Nalaar]

Synth: Pander

Since they claim not metal anyway, there is no universe where we don't do this today

[Chandra Nalaar]

you are completely missing the point

you think their claim is more likely metal, but they've outright claimed they're not.

this doesn't affect your read on them at all?

It does.

I still think it's possible Nati decided to fuck with us.

[Chandra Nalaar]

BTW, if DV flips scum, don't clear massive.

It's entirely possible DV realized early on that he was eventually doomed and decided to buy his mediocre scumbuddy as much towncred as possible. Meanwhile massive could have been awkwardly failing at bussing him back.

[Chandra Nalaar]

If DV is scum, he is metal.

This is not actually a question, and as such lynching him today is literally the worst thing ever. Lynching me is better.

[Chandra Nalaar]

My watermark looks like a sun.

That's the normal one.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Well in that case we'll just have to lynch skot! DARN.

[Chandra Nalaar]

No one seems to care that I just made a case, aside from people who stopped long enough to acknowledge its existence and then carry on.

Is skot not just really obvious scum here?

Serious question.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Those things are different pie

And I'm not going to tell you how, because I'm starting to just straight up dislike you because of this game

My god is currently residing at "lol fuck you i'm still town"

[Chandra Nalaar]

combined with DV's claim, feels like a coordinated scum power play in order to try and keep DV alive as long as possible

you realize

there is literally no point to this

right?

[Chandra Nalaar]

there is no way in fuck CN town can ever fucking think I can't think he's "obvious scum" while everyone disagrees with me, and then post that.

This is why I phrased it as a question

[Chandra Nalaar]

Vezok. You are a magic player.

You know that card is very likely to be metal.

What could possibly be the gambit here? Why would they claim an artifact here, *with a new phyrexia watermark*, if it wasn't their actual card? Town or scum, I would bet the game they will indeed flip Etched Monstrosity. There is literally no way that doesn't happen; and if scum, that card is almost certainly metal.

Therefore, we are very likely, if not certainly, either lynching a townie, or nolynching here.

It's stupid.

[Chandra Nalaar]

They ce claimed his card is pretty weird. He damnright claimed scum.

The gambit I'm talking about is him claiming a metal card in order for to mislynch today and tomorrow lose the entire day because we are only going to lynch him.

Does that make sense?

So, you think that, despite them looking like they might not get lynched today, they decided to intentionally claim scum-but-not-metal to ensure they got lynched tomorrow?

Claiming metal would ensure this happened; since they did not, we can only surmise the hypothetical motivation is, therefore, to prevent their scumbuddy skot from being lynched today, yes?

[Chandra Nalaar]

Pander claims scum metal.

Right, exactly. So why didn't he claim metal?

[Chandra Nalaar]

Answer: if he's scum, he wants to be lynched today, and therefore, is metal.

[Chandra Nalaar]

@ffery: I think it kinda is, but flavor millers are indeed a thing, and one I'm being open to.

The other issue is that they've claimed a nonmetal artifact creature-- muffin and skot are simultaneously our only claimed metals and our only claimed artifact creatures

[Chandra Nalaar]

We also had mastin already as a pseudo-flavor-miller-but-actually-only-if-you're-dumb

[Chandra Nalaar]

Ceph's constant and persistent defense is giving me the creeps. I am not settling for anything other than a pander lynch today. Skot, tattletale, we need your votes to make this happen. Just look at the stubborn resistance to this wagon.

Read my posts instead. I just want to synth today to avoid what is plainly going to be a town-or-nolynch. Nolynch to your heart's content if you want, but there is zero way DV is scum and nonmetal. Literally none.

things with the phyrexian watermark are pretty clearly phyrexian. Pander didn't say anything about being phyrexian when I asked for town phyrexians to speak up during day 1, nor when antihero was trying to figure out muffin's alignment by card flavor during day 2.

While I agree that it's a pretty terrible claim, I think pander's play doesn't correspond to a town-phyrexian. I was entertaining the possibility of something like "Old phyrexian" not being with the "New Phyrexia" scum, but the flavor seems to be that phyrexian is phyrexian, and they should all be scum, outside of some possible color-based subfactions.

If you believe him, he didn't know the card was Phyrexian. Eh.

[Chandra Nalaar]

Ugh. I've probably waited too long.

Ok.

I suggest we NOT synth pander and lynch them today.

If the lynch doesn't go through, then someone serum me tonight.

I'll explain on day 3 if I survive.

o.o

[Chandra Nalaar]

I think the synth is already through

[Chandra Nalaar]

I think the value in a metal-Pander Bears lynch is confirming him as scum? If we lynch SKOT and he flips town (which is likely, in my opinion) we are back in the same situation tomorrow, with another two weeks to argue the same things. (Also, he's scummy)

Option 1: Lynch SKOT today, lynch DV tomorrow
Option 2: Lynch no one today, lynch DV tomorrow

????

[Chandra Nalaar]

...
If you believe him, he didn't know the card was Phyrexian. Eh.

I get that, but the question is whether that's reasonable. Hydras deserve even more scrutiny here, since either head could have thought "gee, I wonder if antihero has really cleared muffin? What's all this talk of phyrexian watermarks? O looks like I have one." Especially given the sinister sounding name of the card.

I don't think bpc is really playing

[Chandra Nalaar]

One thing I do remember and meant to mention the last time I posted was that I don't like the way Pander is going after Falcon. It feels way too much like the way he all of a sudden changed his read on Falcon in Tales. It's not that he's suspecting him, but the way he's doing it comes off a bit oily.

Wasn't that me?

[Chandra Nalaar]

Ocular halo on the pentavus does seem pretty farfetched relative to the other ability-card pairings we've seen.

yes, yes it does