Paradise Lost - [Game Over]

[Equinox]

Vote: Glass

What manner of role PM did you get that caused pirate mollie to replace out?

Also, RedCoyote, let's be masons together!

[Equinox]

lets bandwagon...
VOTE: Grapes

Why grapes, ArcAngel9?

[Equinox]

I'm not a hundred percent up to speed on your fancy lingo. I get wotc = wisdom of the crowds = can pm mod to request someone not play. Didn't the signup thread said mod would use "Wisdom of the one", and if yes, what's the difference?

Either way Mollie replacement is a better case than grapes. I mean, I love grapes. They're probably my second favorite fruit. And have you tried eating glass? It's not a fun time, I assure you. You'll be picking tiny shards out of your gums for weeks.

UNVOTE: Grapes
VOTE: Glass

*twitch*

Anyway, the difference between Wisdom of the Crowds and of the One is the number of PMs/votes to the moderator it takes before someone gets taken out.

[Equinox]

VOTE: Glass
I like this idea, of what role

could

it be?

What changed your mind between post 8 where you voted someone else and this one where you voted Glass?

[Equinox]

VOTE: Glass
I like this idea, of what role

could

it be?

The first one was using a randomizer, now, you've piqued my intrest.

What specifically piqued your interest? The argument didn't change since before your randomized vote.

[Equinox]

cause no lynch is clearly superior

I think I see where you're going, but let's roll with it anyway: Why is it "clearly superior"?

Also, yes, there are many different possibilities for why pirate mollie replaced out. I am not discounting that fact. However, this is a good time to test one of those possibilities!

[Equinox]

We no lynch until the Angel's kill doesn't go through.
Then the Angel claims and we are reduced to mountainous w/ a bulletproof IC who still has all the input of all the dead town.
We get no sin until then so the sin counter only goes up from that point.

Okay. That makes sense.

Why did you vote No Lynch for your first vote?

[Equinox]

On second thought, there may be no way to tell between the Angel's kill and the Demons' kill, so zMuffinMan has a point.

:shrug:

[Equinox]

Cause i like my plan and am committed to it.

What did you think would happen if we established at the start of the Day that we were not going to lynch?

But the Angel knows.
Once the Angel get's RB'd, he just claims.
Counter claim is death to conf scum.

Nope.

[Equinox]

Unvote, Vote: Elbirn

Which reminds me
@Equinox: You were questioning lufan on his vote switch to Glass, while you are now voting Glass does this change your read on Glass from mollie's replace out? Do you think lufan's town/null/scum?

I questioned lufan131 on his vote switch to Glass because I saw the discrepancy between not voting when I presented my reason and using essentially the same reason when he switched. His explanation seems adequate, but I don't have much of a read on that slot yet.

As for your latter question, this one's going to be fun: I had a fairly good idea of why pirate mollie replaced out, and it was likely due to not this game but a recently completed game. I did not want to divulge the fact that such a reason existed so that I could read Glass and whomever decided to play bandwagon. Glass's behavior has seemed town.

And mollie replacing out was very strange, yes - I'd initially thought maybe because she got town and thought it was boring so left..? But the others seem to think more likely she was scum? Idk, I haven't completed any games with her so I'm not sure what she prefers.

What do you think of the people who pushed that wagon?

Scenario 1: Angel claims angel, scum must counterclaim. we lynch one, then the other if needed.
Scenario 2: Demon Claims angel, angel does not counterclaim since it is a for sure demon kill.

am i really missing something here?

Yes. The fact that you weren't seeing it is giving me pause. Scum are probably hyper-aware of the downfalls of this plan, so it's just a matter of figuring out how sincere you were.

the grapes i get here in my country are not sweet. So I am not big fan of grapes. A lame reason but still true...

That sounds like an RVS vote. What did you think of the Glass/pirate mollie votes? What made you choose to make an RVS vote over any other kind?

hi

VOTE: sakura

having a difficult time resonating with their posts

Why?

[Equinox]

Quick heads-up: I'm on a strict deadline this weekend to finish data analysis, so my time is going to be limited for the next few days. I'll try to catch up later tonight.

[Equinox]

This is happening! I am also 7+5 pages behind, so please excuse the wall of quotes.

I'm a little annoyed that ArcAngel9 seemed to skim the thread for references to ArcAngel9, yet ArcAngel9 missed my question in post 110.

Elbirn, it seems from post 279 that you are reading Sakura Hana as scum. If that's the case, do you think the motivation to go through someone's old games would be more likely to come from scum, more likely to come from town, or neither (please specify)? Why?

Sakura Hana, what do you think Elbirn's motivation would be for lying about his history with buddying?

As pointed out by everyone else, this isn't really the best idea. But I feel like this was put out there with good intentions, and on a surface level it makes sense; we lose if we get sin, so let's ensure that we can't get sin. Leaning town on Gaiden.

What makes you feel that SXTLHGaiden was pushing his plan with "good intentions"?

Okay, I've digressed a bit but that's my opinion of the wagon. It gained momentum very quickly, before Glass even posted at all. Some very interesting and noteable participation...

Well, Equinox asked me what I thought of the Glass wagon; I believe I conveyed what I was thinking with that post. I wasn't actually asked for analysis. Tere did say it was "a decent attempt at wagon analysis" - which actually implies it wasn't analysis, merely an attempt.

A lot of your post was commentary on the votes, rather than analyzing the intent and/or players' alignments behind them. It's true that I should have been clearer and explicitly asked that of you, but I'm still curious: Why didn't you provide analysis despite not being asked for it at that point?

Also could someone please explain to me what's the deal with Elbirn? i don't see why he's being wagonedm he asked what was the problem was with mollie's replace out and got his question answered so he decided to follow suit, am i missing something super obvious or what.

My vote was for his overexplanation of his vote switch from grapes to Glass earlier in the Day.

I have actually been worrying more about Mollie's replace out over the weekend. She wanted me to play together in this game and encouraged me to sign up (although I didn't need much persuasion as the set up looked cool. I doubt she even read that Wisdom of the One applied, I know from hydraing with her Mollie can miss that kind of stuff - she thought we were a cop in Lost Rooms when we were effectively VT because she hadn't read the sample role PM. I am not getting warm fuzzies from Glass either.

I am 90% sure that pirate mollie replaced out of this game for reasons that were not related to this game, and it was likely that she had missed out on Wisdom of the One. I'm a little surprised that you're unaware of it, but that's neither here nor there. Would you please elaborate on your thoughts regarding Glass?

Hey RC if you still don't see what I mean by MOI impersonators then I don't think you ever will.

Well, they

are

missing that unique MagnaofIllusion touch. With any luck, they will never acquire it!

[Equinox]

Someone convince me of something, I feel neglected. It's standard to talk to other people about who you suspect; you're never going to convince scum that they are scum so talking directly to them is useless.

What do you think of the relative lack of attention on lufan131?

You mentioned that ArcAngel9 was "mod confirmed town" in post 167. How so?

[Equinox]

The mod wouldn't give arcangel a demon role, now would he?

Well, I guess there isn't a "relative lack of attention" towards lufan131 at all!

[Equinox]

I have already responded to this issue. I was mistaken about lalalala vote. I read her unvote as vote.. it was huge miscommunication from my side.

Wrong question. There were already 3 votes on 3 different people at the time you made your RVS vote on grapes in post 10, and one of those votes was explicitly not random. Why did you pick grapes to bandwagon out of those 3 votes? It seemed like you were trying to elongate RVS.

its not like grape is dying. I still haven't have strong scummy read to move my vote yet.

We have 3 days to deadline. What are your reads? How strong does a scum read have to be before you vote?

yes.
As a hyper paranoid person, everyone.

What do you think of the consensus opposition to your No Lynch plan?

Sakura Hana seems to be getting into battles of semantics with everyone with whom she comes into contact: first Elbirn, now Albert B. Rampage. Does anyone know if this is her usual behavior?

[Equinox]

I understand it. Which is why i've opted toward a more friendly "No lynch D1" plan.

Let's say we go with your plan to not lynch on Day 1. Who do you think the Angel should be shooting on Night 1? Assume that the Angel has many bullets.

[Equinox]

Well, given the fact that my plan was initially rejected and thus content was produced, Angel should shoot biggest scum read.
I don't trust my reads (lol gaiden having reads) so i can't advise on any particular player.
At worst, angel hits a townie and now has the ability to communicate with that townie and the other dead townie that scum kills.
Otherwise, the angel will have to make tradeoffs of "killing a townie raises the Defcon level"

What reads do you have, anyway? Also, how come you don't trust your reads?

[Equinox]

My RVS Bandwagon vote is humor nothing personal in it.
As for my reads, I am quite unsure as of them at this moment, It always a big deal to have strong reads on day 1 at least for me and considering mislynch costs sing points in this game, I am just being careful with who I want to vote.

And you must know that I am pretty occupied in defending myself from logic less accusations and hatred from Katsuki

All right, so your scum reads have to be pretty strong before you vote. You say that you're unsure of your reads; does that mean you have reads but that you're not sure about them, or does it mean that you don't have any reads? If it's the former, could you please share your reads anyway?

You're not so occupied with defending yourself against Katsuki -- who is only one person -- that you can't process the rest of the game. It actually looks like you're using Katsuki as an excuse to not work with the rest of the game.

[Equinox]

You weren't so occupied with Katsuki after all!

btw... What are your scum reads?

I'm currently voting Elbirn for the weird vote switch and because farside22, a town read, said that he didn't seem the same to her in this game. I confess that I ought to read his past games myself but have no time to do so. The read has been weakened a bit since Elbirn asserted that he hasn't found a thing about which to be aggressive. I'm considering voting lufan131 for reasons I won't go into now, but I want to see what he does with his next post first. I'm also reading you as scum because some of the reasons you stated for your town reads were shallow. You said that you read zMuffinMan as town for thinking about the setup, but zMuffinMan said himself that he had thought of strategies before the game started. You said later that SXTLHGaiden was town for throwing off ideas on Day 1, but you didn't analyze the ideas that he was presenting. Would you tell me how you came to have a mild town read of Albert B. Rampage?

What do you think of Sakura Hana?

Why do you think there's a lack of interest in massive?

[Equinox]

I wont argue with you on my town reads. I town read zmuffin or Gaiden is becuz I don't think scum would show interest on setup on d1. I am open to believe that I might be wrong but at least I feel they are far better town then anyone I see at this moment.

I read Albert town becuz his posts are not odd. And his attitude seems very easy going which is something scum wouldn't do with me. this read is from my perspective. if you're my shoes you would understand it..

I'm not arguing with your reads. In fact, to some extent, I agree with your read of zMuffinMan and Albert B. Rampage but probably for different reasons. I'm just bothered by the fact that you're sticking to "showing interest in the setup on Day 1" as a reason for zMuffinMan because he made it clear in this post that he thought of it pre-game. That's why I thought it was shallow.

To be fair, though, I'm starting to see for myself that maybe it's because you haven't been reading the thread all that clearly anyway.

What do you think of Sakura Hana? (Also, because I asked you first, you're answering first.)

Why do you think there's a lack of interest in massive?

[Equinox]

I am reading the thread so clearly that I missed your response. Derp Equinox.

Equinox, what do you think about Sakura?

Neutral read, mostly because I'm unsure what's going on there. I had leaned town on her initially, but the way she drew Elbirn into that fight a few hours ago and then Albert B. Rampage into a fight when he jumped in bothers me. The progression of her read of SXTLHGaiden has also seemed bizarre; she thought he was scum for not playing his usual, which is fine, but when he made a post that was facetious on its face, she thought that was more his typical behavior. It was apparent to me that he was joking. Hopefully, someone can tell me if she has a habit of fighting over semantics, or I can take a look in a few days after my V/LA if it's still relevant at that point.

[Equinox]

Angel, give me the patience to not strangle Sakura Hana right here and right now.

I think I'm just going to wait for my mason buddy to show up.

I want lufan to come back to the thread and start doing something if he's town. :/

If the deadline were to end in 15 minutes, who would you vote?

[Equinox]

And mason buddy? are you claiming as mason? Sorry I miss to read that one before!! :eek:

There aren't masons in the setup. I'm just masons with RedCoyote for giggles (and because I don't want to have to figure him out for a Day or so).

[Equinox]

How are you town reading RedCoyote? Is it meta or gut? or other reasons?

RedCoyote is still a neutral read. It takes me a while to get a read either way of him.

[Equinox]

The composition of the top 3 wagons isn't very exciting. All three have the same mix of town, neutral, and scum reads.

I should read people's sales pitches later today once I'm done grading.

[Equinox]

8 hours is plenty of time, right? Right? Yes? Okay, let's do this now.

Unvote, Vote: lufan131

Also, the Katsuki-AA stuff is so egregious that I'm surprised no one's reported it.

You can always submit one yourself by hitting the Report button at the top of the post.

This begs the question whether or not you think Gaiden had good intentions or not.

That's just it. I wanted to see what Elbirn had to say. Now you've reminded me that I need to dive back to see if the question was ever answered or if it's in a long, long list of things I need to remember to look for when this thread gets spammed.

+1 for 386, but she needs to connect the dots for me on Elbrin.

Which dots? The vote switch was way back in post 20, with the theory being that scum are nervous about sheeping wagons and thus will run their mouth a bit when switching.

There is definitely something going on between AA9 and ABR. I don't think both of them are town.

Walk me through this one: How so?

[Equinox]

I don't know how to get votes to leave me... So that's what I end up doing.

Giving up is not an option, mostly because I hate it when prey give up, makes them not taste as good.

Are you caught up in the thread? If not you have less than 2 days, go do that right now.

You said in post 533 that all you read made you want to lynch ArcAngel9. Why? What do you think of the wagon growing on you? What do you think about the fact that the wagon on ArcAngel9 has been dwindling? What do you think of the town reads of ArcAngel9?

Why did you ask if you were hammered?

[Equinox]

Why? I thought I was at L-2 before I went to school. Two votes happened in that time. I want her lynched since she's not being cohesive, and prone to misinterpret things. Also her posts feel scummy, so also a gut read. I think that the wagon growing on me is misplaced, since I know I'm town. I'm sad it's dwindled, since I thought I had a chance to live day one. I don't care for the town reads, but they don't bother me too badly.

I will counter your first question with another: Why are you considering giving up? ArcAngel9 is right there with only 3 votes on her. If you give up, who gets lynched, you or her?

I can appreciate a gut read, but you mentioned ArcAngel9's style of posting. Do you think not being cohesive and misinterpreting things is indicative of scum?

You believe that the votes are misplaced, but you're not telling me what you think is the cause. Look at your wagon and tell me: Do you think there's scum on there or not? If so, who? In either case, why?

Convince me to not lynch you.

Please don't make me ask if there's gold in the village.

I personally beg everyone to drop their vote from lufan wagon if they are voting him because its a leading wagon. We can work out something else..
I also been begging to look at massive. I don't see anything he did is town motivated.

We have less than 2 days to make a decision. We need competing wagons, not less votes on a leading wagon.

[Equinox]

Equinox what kind of sexual partner do you like?

No comment.

True. I said this before. Why don't you vote massive with me? do you read him town or scum?

No idea. massive hasn't made enough posts to give me data points yet, and I'm not sure if it's because we've had multiple thread explosions over the past week or because he's using the activity as a way of lurking. I'll give him a reread to see what's up. Right now, though, my attention is engaged elsewhere.

You pointed out a bunch of things regarding AA's play that are more indicative of scum than town. What has you not thinking he's scum anymore?

Something about the way ArcAngel9 answered my questions felt... genuine? I'm a little cautious because I heard someone once say that ArcAngel9 tends to want to appease when she's scum, but I didn't get that impression here I don't think. She stuck to her guns when I pointed out her reads were for bad reasons.

[Equinox]

This one is one that got to me, then later, that same tone that you weren't taking much seriously reappeared. Then, others arguments helped me also understand why. It boils down to gut though. I'm not 100% that you're confused, although your posts have confused me.

Pop quiz: Who is scum with ArcAngel9?

[Equinox]

I'll go on a limb, and say any lurker, and albert.

Which lurker(s)? Why Albert B. Rampage?

Why should I lynch these people over you? Why are you town?

Dragging your reasoning out of you is like pulling teeth.

[Equinox]

lufan, you have nothing to lose at this point. Might as well be straight with us as to why you're scumreading ABR. You mentioned his randomness, a.k.a. fluff, which is a logically sound reason. What's the purpose behind it? Keep going and connect more dots.

Go, go, mason buddy! <3

Sell me on massive.

On a scale of 1-10, where would Albert rate in terms of what you look for in a sexual partner?

[...]

Really, I get quite the opposite feeling. Those "scumposting" posts were examples of stuff I found not genuine, and I get the opposite feeling you're getting in terms of appeasing - I think he's appeasing quite a bit when it comes to lines of questioning. There was an example from a few pages back, which might have been incited by you actually, where AA started talking about other stuff when you pointed out that he was using me as an excuse to avoid commenting on the game/other stuff.

Huehuehue.

Hmm. Do you have any examples off-hand of ArcAngel9 being scum? I'm going through jasonT1981's Doctor Who game (ArcAngel9-town) to see if I can't jog my memory of what she was like when Faraday and I poked her with a stick. ArcAngel9 had begun pointing out reads of other people when I pointed out that she was using you as a crutch to not analyze the game.

I also get the active lurking out of him, where he seemed to do stuff for the reason of saying he can. Him going off on seemingly wild tangents, and I'm looking through his posts to see something that's not "fluffy", and I'm legit struggling here...

What do you think of Katsuki?

[Equinox]

I don't want nolynch. Not at this stage.... Lynching someone gives more understanding about game than no-lynch. But lufan wagon is unfair especially when some players clearly said why they are voting him... Ask sakura and Equnox for this. They voted him becuz we are running out of time not because he is scum. How is this even fair?

Not quite. I waited 8 hours to see if lufan131 had anything else to say after catching up in the thread before voting him. I'm quite capable of launching a flash wagon, so time constraints aren't an issue.

[Equinox]

so, we're going massive?

ಠ_ಠ

[Equinox]

Like...

lufan131 was doing so well.

It took just one post to bomb every last shred of goodwill.

[Equinox]

zMuffinMan, are you caught up yet?

I want you (or anyone you designate, preferably someone online) to test something.

[Equinox]

i've read up to page 12 and pages since my post last night (so like, the last 2). i'm slowly making my way through the rest of the game

Bleh. How mad would you be if Day ended before you could finish reading?

[Equinox]

but i also don't really like the lufan wagon

Fun experiment: Put lufan131 at L-1.

[Equinox]

Voting massive isn't achieving anything...

Actually, I thought the discussion about making massive a competing wagon was pretty productive. This works, too, though.

[Equinox]

Here comes FakeGod to spoil the fun.

lufan131 logged off anyway, so trying that out was moot.

Mod: Please prod The Bulge.

[Equinox]

Equinox, who should I be voting for?

Vote for whomever your heart desires.

Because then they'd be like... WAGON, burn it! I'm better leaving my vote there, then

lufan131, what would you say are the differences between how you play town and how you play scum?

Don't talk about ongoing games -- I just want your mindset.

[Equinox]

@Equinox, answer honestly. Is your blatant coaching of lufan game-specific or just a result of being an experienced player and playing with a newbie?

I don't know what you're hoping to get out of this question, The Bulge. If I were scum, did you think I was going to answer honestly? Besides, how would you be able to tell whether or not my answer was honest?

That said, I'm trying to get a read of him. There are points where he looks town (see... well, I think you get it), and then there are times where he completely bombs it (see The Post and his behavior when I egged someone to "L-1" him). I was hoping that nudging him would show me if he was just new and super awkward or new and bad at scum.

[Equinox]

That vote count looks horrible in every respect and makes me doubt whether or not my reads are correct. It could be wagon shenanigans given the mechanics of the game, too, but I don't know. The people pushing No Lynch

now

as opposed to the beginning of the Day (i.e., SXTLHGaiden; whatever happened to that guy anyway?) are more likely to be in the clear possibly if only because that tactic eliminates the pool of optimal kills for the Demons. There, now that I've ruined that town tell, the rest of you who haven't used it yet can go pound sand!

lufan131's response in post 774 might have been acceptable if he had given it when I asked for it, but that came too little, too late, and too defensive. What is bugging me a bit is that he hasn't trolled yet, which is what I would have expected of him given his defeatist attitude for pretty much the entire game, but I think what's bugging me a hell of a lot more than that is everything else that has been said against him.

ArcAngel9, did anything change in your play style between 2013 and 2015?

[Equinox]

^lynch it with fire

I regret not asking lufan131 to troll sooner.

[Equinox]

On second thought: If lufan131 does turn out to be scum, it puts the late No Lynch bandwagon and whomever(s) is/are responsible for that atrocity of a vote count in a really bad light.

Votes ahoy!

[Equinox]

Or you can promote massive wagon.. you said you have potential to build a speed wagon. I am looking forward to see that...

It sort of requires me to care about pushing the wagon first.

Right now, having seen how lufan131 chose to react after 1) the wagon on him fell apart and 2) people stopped wanting things of him, I am more satisfied with lynching lufan131 than I ever was. The behavior of the wagons since people hoping off lufan131 in combination with lufan131's now flippant behavior bothers me on a deeper level and makes me think that Demons would rather risk No Lynch (thus risk sending a Villager to Heaven) than risk a scum lynch (which will still send a Villager to Heaven).

[Equinox]

Yeah, I don't like him either but we can lynch him tomorrow?

If you don't like lufan131 either, then what are you doing by pushing a wagon with one vote on it over one that has four?

[Equinox]

What did you hope to achieve with this question?

Insight, possibly.

I was holding back when I talked about my scum read of ArcAngel9, and I wanted to see if ArcAngel9 was aware of the difference I'd noticed between a game in that year and this game.

[Equinox]

And what are your conclusions?

What is your read based purely on an analysis of town/scum motivation and not on an attempt to deduce whether your 2yr old meta still applies?

Well, no reason to hold back now, eh?

I mentioned before that someone mentioned somewhere that ArcAngel9's scum tell was a tendency to appease. That was 2 years ago, and a look at the game I played with ArcAngel9 in 2013 showed that ArcAngel9 was very, very hostile towards anyone who read ArcAngel9 as scum and had a tendency to OMGUS. When I pushed ArcAngel9 here, the OMGUS was sort of there but the hostility was absent. I was on V/LA at the time and couldn't check more recent meta, but the answers to my questions felt town; this has been covered already. ArcAngel9's push for a massive lynch and her insistence that I help ArcAngel push that wagon had me thinking, so I asked ArcAngel9 about the change in tone and went to read a recent town game (Micro 447: Shameless Mafia).

My conclusion from doing all of that is basically that ArcAngel9's answer has been consistent with what I saw in that game. ArcAngel9 isn't as hostile as in the past and seems to be more willing to work with people. ArcAngel9 used to be much more irritating.

I don't have an answer for town versus scum motivation except for what's already been stated in the thread. I will say, though, that the push for massive over lufan131 bugs me because it's torn us apart when we're already on the clock. I'm having trouble figuring out if it's because of a genuine passion for massive being scum or if it's a tactic to both avoid a scum lynch (assuming lufan131 is scum) and having to send a Villager to Heaven and thus giving the Angel a mason to play with for the rest of the game.

[Equinox]

@Equinox: Why do you think AA9's reasons for voting massive was? some people say OMGUS, but AA9 presented some reasons last time. She also scumread me when i first scumread her, then she switched to townread me when i townread her. Which is something that has been bothering me.

Looking over ArcAngel9 in isolation now, it looks like the push was sparked by massive's vote on ArcAngel9 which the latter thought was opportunistic? I see reasons way down in post 899, but that seems tied to the original reason anyway.

ArcAngel9 used to be an OMGUS-type player (which is pretty damned irritating), so I wouldn't be surprised if that's a personality quirk of hers.

Bleh, now I feel like I have to wade back to see what ArcAngel9's interactions are like. I want to do that less than work.

[Equinox]

Mine?

[Equinox]

...

Ignore that.

:oops:

[Equinox]

How else would the Equinox drinking game work?

I love that this is a thing and that I make people drunk when I'm a failure at my job.

[Equinox]

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2015-04-24 14:00:00)

Hmm... guys?

lufan131 is at L-3, so it's possible that we'll make it. No Lynch isn't a tragedy, though, unless lufan131 flips scum later.

[Equinox]

No. I'm fairly conflicted about ArcAngel9 but don't have time to investigate. I wouldn't count on me right now regarding that slot.

[Equinox]

Eenie meenie miney mo...

Vote: ArcAngel9

Let's go, Katsuki!

Waiting expectantly for reads from: Glass, SXTLHGaiden, The Bulge

Maybe some others I'm not remembering right now.

zMuffinMan being the only one who was vocal about his suspicions of RedCoyote bothers me.

[Equinox]

Has your read on lufan changed from yesterday? Or are you sheeping zmuffin's thoughts.

It may or may not have. I am deliberately holding back on that front.

[Equinox]

Unvote

[Equinox]

ArcAngel9, you're drunk. Don't play Mafia right now. Go home; do not pass Go, and do not collect $200.

I agree with Sakura Hana, but unfortunately it is hard to tell what her motivation is given that alcohol is involved.

What a time to not be on a computer.

[Equinox]

Like... this is a really weird move as scum. I voted ArcAngel9 and did not mention lufan131 to blindside, and it worked far more than I thought it would. Scum are now facing a ton of Villagers with no Sin. Why the hell would ArcAngel9-scum do this so that Angel gets another 1-2 people in Heaven?

Alternative explanations: Appeal to emotion, alcohol, emotional strain from yesterday (let's face it, she never had the heat off her)

Ugh. I need someone to bounce ideas off. Katsuki, help me out here.

[Equinox]

Let's discuss this more when ArcAngel9 sobers up or gets replaced. The fact that she didn't see the people speaking out about the speed of her wagon talks volumes about her state of mind.

I see where Sakura Hana is going, and I have my own embarrassing story about that. My concern is whether it is genuine. It might be because, from ArcAngel9-town's point of view, I might as well have slapped her across the face. I'll take a closer look later tonight.

[Equinox]

So, lufan131, who do you think are the scum?

[Equinox]

@Equinox - What exactly prompted your unvote? The ninja of the century needs its story told.

I saw farside22's comment and counted 7 votes. I didn't want a derphammer (lol), so I unvoted.

[Equinox]

So I take it I'm the only one who doesn't buy that emotional outburst?

AA9, when you read this tomorrow, why didn't you hammer Lufan?

if that's the case, you should totally start a flash wagon on someone

Quote wall ahead. This is for generating 5 pages within 24 hours, you punks.

I will nuke the living daylights out of lalaladucks for all of the Skittles barf, so help me Angel.

That said, lalaladucks, walk me through something because I'm having trouble understanding your reaction. What were you feeling as Elbirn, grapes, and Sakura Hana were probing you on page 50?

Has your read on lufan changed from yesterday? Or are you sheeping zmuffin's thoughts.

It has but only mildly. For me, there's a lot of baseline paranoia about him because of the possibility that he is deliberately playing subpar to avoid accountability. He has 72 posts, so it's not like he's lurking; however, where he isn't explaining his Glass vote, he's focused on Albert B. Rampage and ArcAngel9. He's made no other substantial comments about other players. He's made no effort to find scum on his wagon despite admitting in the thread that he does stupid things and gets wagoned. As Katsuki would say, lufan131 is objectively very scummy. Throw on the fact that he somehow did not get lynched by deadline, and I really should be voting him right now.

The main reason I haven't is that I did not want to open Day 2 with a lufan131 wagon. That is what scum would have expected to happen, and if the reason I'm still alive is they wanted a lufan131 wagon to go through, I wasn't going to give it to them. (On the other hand, if scum is someone like RedCoyote, he'd go in reverse, but I'm not going to rant about going against a Sicilian when death is on the line.) Voting ArcAngel9 instead became one of the more interesting things I've done.

So, lufan131, who do you think are the scum?

Personally? Perhaps lala(That was a fun holiday, but still :p ) or kat, still feeling albert is scum for having almost no content, and I wouldn't To all of the above reads: Why?

What did you think of ArcAngel9's attempt to self-hammer?

So I take it I'm the only one who doesn't buy that emotional outburst?

Why? I'm aware that your opinion changed as of post 1225, but I want to know what your thinking was when you posted this.

Believe me, I know calculating.

[...]

I also love in this post he suggests that lalala could be scum strictly because Equinox and SH started batting around that idea a bit.

Well, of course

you

would. :P

As for the latter bit, I think you have me confused with farside22.

if that's the case, you should totally start a flash wagon on someone

Who the hell are you?

I don't know. I didn't like how AA was treated yesterday and I didn't like her reaction today, and it didn't feel right putting her out of the game with her in that state. (By the time I got in and would have voted, it was close to lynch.)

[Equinox]

Wow. That was disgusting. Sorry. Starting from that big, ugly quote box that was supposedly by lufan131, edit by way of post:

Personally? Perhaps lala(That was a fun holiday, but still :p ) or kat, still feeling albert is scum for having almost no content, and I wouldn't mind lynching AA9

To all of the above reads: Why?

What did you think of ArcAngel9's attempt to self-hammer?

So I take it I'm the only one who doesn't buy that emotional outburst?

Why? I'm aware that your opinion changed as of post 1225, but I want to know what your thinking was when you posted this.

Believe me, I know calculating.

[...]

I also love in this post he suggests that lalala could be scum strictly because Equinox and SH started batting around that idea a bit.

Well, of course

you

would. :P

As for the latter bit, I think you have me confused with farside22.

if that's the case, you should totally start a flash wagon on someone

Who the hell are you?

I don't know. I didn't like how AA was treated yesterday and I didn't like her reaction today, and it didn't feel right putting her out of the game with her in that state. (By the time I got in and would have voted, it was close to lynch.)

What didn't you like about ArcAngel9's reactions on Day 2?

[Equinox]

Albert's too fluffy. Lala is a borderline, I'd found them scummy for a posting style, scum day, and some of their arguments don't make sense. Kat's a gut read. AA9 is playing awkwardly, self voting, and being somewhat stupid, and it reminds me of how I'd played as scum in the past.

What do you think of the arguments that have been made that ArcAngel9 would have lynched herself if I hadn't unvoted in time?

What do you think of massive?

[Equinox]

Hi Cho! Can you talk a bit more about Katsuki?

What I mean by that is that she wouldn't self vote for no reason, and that she really desired the lynch.

Why did you say that you wouldn't mind lynching ArcAngel9? Are you reading her as scum?

[Equinox]

Heads-up: I'm going to be on V/LA until April 30. I will technically have computer access, but I'm going to go defend my thesis and GTFO of school. Whee!

[Equinox]

Cho, close the tab you're using to post in this thread and re-open the thread in a new tab. That should make the ghost quote go away.

[Equinox]

Actually, please do fix it; it's going to be a bitch and a half to scroll through this page on a mobile later. If closing the tab doesn't work, close the window entirely.

[Equinox]

Also, I'm on mobile. And I full well know how to remove the error; I even coached players in my modded games on how to resolve it. I wish I could say I didn't fix it in order to cause this sudden activity-from-caught-active-lurkers influx, but in reality I'm just kind of a bitch.

...you're fucking kidding me, right?

I'm in the middle of writing my thesis right now. Though I'm following along in the thread, I am deliberately not posting because otherwise I'm sinking time into a Mafia game that I don't have. As in, if I don't finish this, I will not graduate on time. Posting to tell you to stop quoting a massive OP takes seconds. Posting to talk about Katsuki takes orders of magnitude longer.

[Equinox]

Logged out, closed Chrome, reopened, logged in and it's still there on preview.

Who do I go to for midgame problems like this that need immediate solving?

PM chamber (or any of the reds). It's weird that it keeps doing that. Did you clear your cookies, as well? (Unless you need them for something.)

[Equinox]

Actually, might as well do something game-relevant while I'm here. Have you ever played with Katsuki before?

[Equinox]

Mod: You're a star!

Without going into specifics right now (ask again in a couple of days):

What do you think of Kats being mafia?

It's a possibility. The main reason I don't have a firm answer is that Katsuki is very, very difficult -- if not impossible -- for me to read because I've never been able to catch his wavelength, so to speak, despite having seen him play over 4-5 years. Usually, he lurks like a champ, even in games that could be considered thrilling due to mechanics (e.g., DEFCON Mafia 3.0). This amount of activity from him is unusual, but the vast majority of it has been spent on lynching ArcAngel9. I'm annoyed that he's

still

trying to lynch ArcAngel9, but the question to which I don't have an answer is how much of that is Katsuki being Katsuki, and how much of that is Katsuki using ArcAngel9 as an excuse to not bother with the thread (see what I did there).

The only scum motivation that comes to mind for Katsuki hyper-focusing on ArcAngel9 is to avoid accountability by not doing anything, but he could have accomplished that all on his own by being his usual, lurky self and no one would have batted an eye. However, while ArcAngel9 is widely town read, Katsuki is drawing attention to himself by doing this.

Actually, while typing all of that out, I remembered that Katsuki wanted to die and go to Heaven. This might be his way of accomplishing that? :shrug: Might do a meta dive later.

[Equinox]

I'm pretty sure Katsuki expressed opinions on other people at some point during D1, don't remember exactly when and his ISO's too long to bother because atm im too tired and want to sleep.

Katsuki did talk about other people on Day 1. It's how I was reading him as town before.

Today, though, he's trolling. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Equinox]

Baa, etc.

Vote: Katsuki

[Equinox]

This was fun. I'm sorry about the inactivity. Good game, everyone. Thanks for running this, FakeGod.

[Equinox]

I'm sorry that I had to go V/LA site-wide due to a family emergency. It's not hard to check that I replaced out of other games the same time I announced it in Heaven.

Sorry, Katsuki. I had said some unkind words, as well, and I wholeheartedly take them back. I hope everything is okay.