Nightingale's Tale - [Game Over]

[Brian Skies]

Rabble rabble Fakegod made me join rabble rabble

Me too. I don't even remember /inning.

I don't think I've ever seen Gif post so much so early like ever. I also don't think I've ever seen Gif-scum. Maybe it's a sign.

VOTE: Gif

[Brian Skies]

That's funny, you misspelled Gif.

[Brian Skies]

Oh no! I'm being voted! Whatever shall I do?

[Brian Skies]

And here I was hoping for a town win.

[Brian Skies]

Or a sign that you should be less apathetic in the games I do play with you.

[Brian Skies]

The one where I was scum? That's sooooooo long ago. And I haven't been scum in forever.

[Brian Skies]

You were in Saki Mafia with my Red Gyarados hydra.

[Brian Skies]

I still can't believe Desp chose Rubi-scum over us.

[Brian Skies]

We are going to have so much

fun

!

You fucking read my mind

We should townbloc this game. I'm good with you right now.

Also, FakeGod just slipped in a PM that our hood is 3 town 2 scum. lmao

I wanna come back to this but I gotta eat.

When neighborhood purging suddenly becomes relevant and a protown thing to do.

[Brian Skies]

If there's one scum in the Red Gyarados hydra, I vote Notty.

[Brian Skies]

Your reads come so quickly and with no substance. You're a madman and I'm still happy with my vote.

[Brian Skies]

If there's one scum in the Red Gyarados hydra, I vote Notty.

Scum found! We should lynch it after Gif!

[Brian Skies]

I'm a Day 5 innocent child. Your move

scum

Gif.

[Brian Skies]

Notty, vote me so Gif can confirm himself as scum.

[Brian Skies]

I'm loving the quote you chose to comment on another scumread of yours.

[Brian Skies]

Also, no.

[Brian Skies]

Wagon ahoy! Also, third!
VOTE: Gaiden

[Brian Skies]

When's the fastest you've ever been lynched? I think this is a good opportunity for us to break that record.

[Brian Skies]

Cho maybe scum.

I'm a Day 5 innocent child. Your move

scum

Gif.

^Wasn't a joke.

<<<Confirmable role.

[Brian Skies]

<<<Also not in a neighborhood with 2 confirmed scum in it.
<<<Not refusing to confirm self (literally can't until Day 5).

[Brian Skies]

If serious, I want to believe your role is town just because it's way too overpowered for scum to have.

[Brian Skies]

I think this game is moving towards a Day 1 massclaim.

[Brian Skies]

Rabble rabble Fakegod made me join rabble rabble

Me too. I don't even remember /inning.

I don't think I've ever seen Gif post so much so early like ever. I also don't think I've ever seen Gif-scum. Maybe it's a sign.

VOTE: Gif

this feels like an rvs

is it an rvs?

Yes. Does it make a difference? I don't think it would considering you voted me regardless of what my answer would have been.

I'd say I was pushing Gif because of what he said here, but then I'd be lying because I just noticed that post today.

And I'm still happy with my vote currently, feel my head exploding with all the day 5 claims and wonder why the flark people are claiming stuff right now.

Bk: why did you feel you needed to claim?

I'm assuming you mean me, and not this guy. But I didn't claim my role, although I can understand why you think it was a serious claim even though I wasn't being serious about this game at all when I entered the thread and I had all of...one vote on me? Maybe two if you count Gif's posture. Cho's doesn't count because I softclaimed first and I thought his vote could have been skeevy and opportunistic.

The only thing I've claimed is that I'm a Day 5 confirmable role. The part about me being an innocent child was just me taking a quick jab at

Muf

Captain Awesome and seeing what Gif would do.

I doubt he's lying
That would be really stupid
Like, really, really...

You make a good point
Didn't like him refusing
Dead if he's lying

Nati maybe town
For that one contentless post
Hard to explain in...
a haiku
... fuck

You're doing that thing again where you have a read that's just so ethereal to me and I have no idea why it's even a thing. Bonus points for it being Nati.

if I believed the claim, I wouldn't be voting Brian.

I'm not an innocent child, so I'm having a really hard time rebutting your push against me. I think you're town, so I think I'm just not going to bother and hope you go away.

also weird verbiage regarding notscience who she has dismissed as a troll -- I see not trolling but instead pretty much just languishing. I think the best way to put it is that farside's "I think ns is trolling" feels dismissive [guess we can ignore him] rather than alarmist [why is ns trolling?] or corrective [hey ns: stop trolling] and I don't think it should. It's more minor a point on e-paper than it sounded in my head.

This stood out to me because I feel Notty's good at sitting on the sidelines with color commentary as scum which he was more than happy to admit in Survivor Mafia. Are you scumreading Notty? Because your use of the word 'languishing' makes me think you're at least leaning that way, but your earlier sentiments towards his mason claim with you and you not addressing him in any way make me think this might not be the case.

Thanks for being my back-up mod, by the way.

I'm not entirely sure what to make of the kastuki/kagami thing other than that farside-scum implies katsuki-town.

Why?

I just feel D5 is too late to be modconfirmed, purely because im assuming 13v4, if we mislynch 4 times and lose 4 townies thats 5v4 which is possible for BS to be modconfirmed.

But say we have an extra kill somewhere, like a vig or delayed poisoner ( ) then the d5 role is useless.

it's set up spec reasons and generally im not good at setup so I could be waaay off target here, but thats my thought process

I got to choose which day to be confirmed. The other Day 5 softclaims/hardclaims are just coincidence as far as I'm concerned. Have at that what you will.

Although I think I'm starting to see why my role is a thing for this setup.

I was like "how the flying hell do y'all know so much about setup"
and then I read the op.

Oh hey, look at all the helpful information I didn't read. How uncharacteristic of me.

*I don't see why one of Cho/Cupcake has to be scum. But I do think there's probably at least one scum double-voter or vote related role in this game.

i think 123 was facetious

It was!

unless BS really really hates playing scum.

I prefer to be town, but I also find it more frustrating and less enjoyable than being scum.

especially if that claim is positive utility

The positive utility of my role is debatable.

Why would scum-brian claim D5 IC under very little pressure?

Dunno, but he clearly didn't read the OP, otherwise he'd have gone for a more credible fake claim.

And this explains a lot of the suspicion on me.

also i don't think cho really has 5 votes on d5

Why?

thought it seemed to much, but if the mod has a history of roles like those then it's possible

Same mod that made Gif a one-shot infinite voter in Viscon Crossroads that never made it past N1. Also the same mod that likes to give town things like 4-town-roleblocker neighborhoods with a linked scum messenger/spy thingy.

I kind of don't want to lynch anyone whose name is in this spoiler^

I also like mac's posts.

So you like Mac's posts, but you don't want to lynch either of the players he's calling out as scum? Why?

[Brian Skies]

I think the Nacho wagon is pretty awful and Kats could be doing the same thing he got away with in the last Alice game.

[Brian Skies]

Did you misspell Gif?

[Brian Skies]

Just wondering why he'd bother posting the PEDIT if he wasn't intending on voting you.

[Brian Skies]

If Katsuki is not telling the truth about his role, he's probably scum

why?

Noting this. Kind of just waiting for Nacho to respond first.

mm, it's not an amazing home-run read or anything and i'm actually feeling a bit less sure about it, but there are certain things i would have expected nati to do in this game if she rolled scum here and she's not doing them

but now i'm meh. kinda hoping nati starts doing stuff this game instead of moping about

I think I get what you mean about Nati here, as I feel I've typically misread her in most of the games I've played with her for similar reasoning. It's just one of those reads I can see you make, but it doesn't really make any sense to me and it's not something I would commit to. I'm actually leaning town on her right now.

that said, if nacho is actually scum here, i'd be pretty willing to bet my entire pokemon card collection on farside being scum with him

I guess. But I don't understand why you think she's more likely to be his partner than some of the other players in this game (like me for example) unless you just think she's scummy (and I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case).

[Brian Skies]

Why did you chose day 5.

Fakegod: "Hey, you're a day specific role. Which day do you want?"
Brian: "No Idea. Day 5 seems fine."

I put in the absolutely minimum amount of thought into my choice and I wouldn't be able to give you any sufficient reasoning without claiming my role, so there's no point to.

[Brian Skies]

Because I find the interaction around my wagon un-townish enough to be suspicious, while also seeing things that don't look scum-scum

i didn't mind grapes's wall of stuff so much - do you have issue/s with it apart from the you read?
...

I think the content overall is fine, but I don't think the conclusion matches the content.

I don't get the same impression. What do you think is off?

[Brian Skies]

I think the Nacho wagon is pretty awful and Kats could be doing the same thing he got away with in the last Alice game.

lol have you read any of nachos posts and have you read mine? I don't know how you can draw any comparisons between the two.

This is coming from the same guy who almost got Nacho lynched Day 1 in the last Alice game with a fake daycop guilty. And I guess Bork can consider this a response to his earlier question to Nacho.

Spoiler:

Also you think Katsuki's plan as scum when he finds an imminent threat in a town PR is to loltunnel him with essentially all bark and no bite and hope town just piles on?
I don't.

While I can see why you think 270 might be scummy, after going back through Nacho's preceding posts, I agree with him and would probably lynch you before either of Nacho/Cho (assuming Cho's claim is true). I also get the feeling Cho isn't claiming a day specific quintuple-voter.

[Brian Skies]

I believe Gaiden is town. His role seems to be the same as mine.

I think this is a terrible reason to townread Gaiden for. But that's just me.

Love it <3

Wanna say notsci town but don't think that's credible

I don't think it's alignment indicative because Notty and I did something similar in the last Alice game, and creating noise and apathy is something he's learned to incorporate into his scum game.

I think Notty will become easier to read with time as I don't think he'll be able to keep up if he's scum. His last wall was passable (but not great), but I wish he commented on players like Muffin (who's been deflecting), Lala (who I have like zero experience with), and me (mostly because he didn't state a read on me )

I'm Cara (nickname). Kat said my lalaladucks name is stupid and I actually agree, but there's no changing it now >~>

Just make an alternate account and ditch this one.

[Brian Skies]

He's not town for the role, but for the way he went about claiming it @lalaladucks (not the self-vote btw, tho it had something to do with it).
Also i'm going to continue to vote this Muffin guy since he still hasn't addressed Mac and several others questions and instead went with "lol"
The good thing about it is that i don't need to convince people anyway because my vote guarantees he'll die.

If people are going g to call zmuffinman "muffin", as they have been, then they should not be upset when things get missed.

As for your vote, well, I don't really give a shit. I'm town and you can't articulate why gaiden is town.

I don't understand why you're deflecting instead of just answering the question.

Gaiden is a very special case that may or may not involve the reading of tea leaves and other divine instruments.

I think this game is moving towards a Day 1 massclaim.

I'm not claiming. My role is awesome and I'm keeping it under wraps.

OK vig me. I'd rather that than cooperate.

I'm

secretly

hoping Sakura just calls your bluff and shoots you in the face.

[Brian Skies]

Fuck, I missed playing with brian

I expect more than just a fly-by comment from you.

[Brian Skies]

Did you misspell Gif?

For being sheeped onto Gaiden you don't seem very happy.

I'm not really paying attention to my early votes and I don't understand what would give you the impression that I'm unhappy. I also don't think being sheeped and being unhappy about a sheep vote are incompatible things.

Ooooh, that's interesting.

I was intending to unvote Gaiden once he proved his claim anyway but Sakura your comment makes me want to keep it there >_>

Then you'll die at the end of this day phase.

As much as I want to read Lala's immediate snarkiness as town, I don't think anything Lala's done has been particularly town-indicative and I'm wondering if she's just cheeky scum.

I also find Lala's preference in voting Nacho over Notty interesting and possibly indicative of buddies.

[Brian Skies]

Vote: Laladucks

[Brian Skies]

I had the same impression, I just chose not to quote it for some reason.

[Brian Skies]

Do you guys think FG would have a town D1 doublevoter and a mafia D1 doublevoter?

Yes. I also think it's likely for Fakegod to include other vote-related scum roles. I said this in my first quote wall.

[Brian Skies]

Voting Muffin is a waste of a vote if he's just going to get shot in the face.

[Brian Skies]

No, but I don't care about your thinking and there are more players in this game than just Muffin.

[Brian Skies]

Well let's discuss the lala scum read you had there then.
My next biggest issue was with what you said.
First you talk about notty and his play.

I believe Gaiden is town. His role seems to be the same as mine.

I think this is a terrible reason to townread Gaiden for. But that's just me.

Love it <3

Wanna say notsci town but don't think that's credible

I don't think it's alignment indicative because Notty and I did something similar in the last Alice game, and creating noise and apathy is something he's learned to incorporate into his scum game.

I think Notty will become easier to read with time as I don't think he'll be able to keep up if he's scum. His last wall was passable (but not great), but I wish he commented on players like Muffin (who's been deflecting), Lala (who I have like zero experience with), and me (mostly because he didn't state a read on me )

I'm Cara (nickname). Kat said my lalaladucks name is stupid and I actually agree, but there's no changing it now >~>

Just make an alternate account and ditch this one.

Did you misspell Gif?

For being sheeped onto Gaiden you don't seem very happy.

I'm not really paying attention to my early votes and I don't understand what would give you the impression that I'm unhappy. I also don't think being sheeped and being unhappy about a sheep vote are incompatible things.

Ooooh, that's interesting.

I was intending to unvote Gaiden once he proved his claim anyway but Sakura your comment makes me want to keep it there >_>

Then you'll die at the end of this day phase.

As much as I want to read Lala's immediate snarkiness as town, I don't think anything Lala's done has been particularly town-indicative and I'm wondering if she's just cheeky scum.

I also find Lala's preference in voting Nacho over Notty interesting and possibly indicative of buddies.

What you describe below about lala is basically null. It's not even a case it's an opinion wrapped up into a wall.
The biggest issue and why I quoted the NS comment you made is you acknowledge NS playstyle but put lala and NS as possible scum because of a vote. That seems like a stretch considering your own read and push is on one player over the other currently.

My catch-up posts are in alphabetical order depending on who I'm speaking to (with the exception of zMuff, who I've been calling Captain Amazing, so it still works out). Regardless, I don't understand why it would matter whether or not I mention one particular read before another.

I suspect Lala more than Notty, and I don't see how you could conclude anything else based upon what I've said about both players. The associative tell I mentioned between the two is based on Lala being scum, not the other way around. I stopped making cases ages ago and there isn't enough from Lala's iso for me to bother doing so. I suspect her, gave my reasons, and voted her. I don't need some plethora of scumtells to think someone is scummy and worthy of a vote.

I have absolutely no incentive to vote Muffin (or any other player) as long as Sakura is voting them so long as I believe her claim (as I currently do). Even if I had a bigger scumread, I'm free to vote whomever I please and I can vote other suspects if I want to. You also mentioned that you'd vote Muffin in a heartbeat, so I don't understand why you're chastising me for not voting him when you aren't even voting him yourself.

[Brian Skies]

Prodded and stuff. Will catch up when I get around to it.

[Brian Skies]

I've actually been somewhat following along and I'm caught up to the last page or so. There just isn't very much I felt like responding to when others have done it for me, and I've been waiting for players like Nacho and Kagami to come in and respond to stuff.

I think Mac and Bork are pretty town this game and I'm not backing down from those reads (even though I don't agree with everything Bork says).

I don't really understand people townreading Lala for her attitude when I don't think she's

done

anything particularly indicative of town this game. And I could have sworn seeing some examples of town Lala being capable of more. It's possible she rolled scum this game and she just doesn't know how to emulate her town game.

I could buy Muffin being town for standing his ground and calling Sakura's bluff. I just find it a really 'meh' point and I'd appreciate it if he'd just answer Mac's question so we could move on (if he's answered it, then I missed it and my apologies).

I normally don't like to state reads on Toothy because I'm not confident in reading a person I've never seen roll scum. But I agree with most of the things he's said this game and I think he's town. I'm also ashamed for not standing strong and defending my read on him in the last Alice game. Also, now that Nacho's answered his earlier question (and quite unsatisfactorily I might add), I think it's scummy if a player fakeclaims just to get another player lynched.

I think Nacho

might

be town this game (hint: this is a townread), which is enough for me to not want to lynch him today. If he's scum, he's also likely to bus one of his partners for us for absolutely no reason at all, so I'm looking forward to that if that's the case and I'm just completely wrong about him right now.

Oversoul is kind of bouncy and doesn't seem to be reading along very well. It seems as though he's rushing through some things and is just trying to get as much out as he can before the day ends. Probably town. I retracted my innocent child claim though. Also, what is this about me taking advantage of claimgate? I've never scumread anyone for their claim. I just stated that there might be scum among the doublevoters or vote-related roles and now that there's yet another doublevoter claim, I think probability is on my side.

TTH being a Day 3 doublevoter seems consistent with whatever theme Fakegod's been trying to setup for this game. I was mostly townreading Cho for his fakeclaim, but I find it hard to believe he'd go through all the trouble as town to make all these bullshit fakeclaims like Day 5 evolving whatever the fuck he was claiming and mason. A lot of his votes and jumps this game have felt a little strange and opportunistic. I think that slot could be scum and would be fine lynching it if Lala's not getting lynched today. I also think it's possible the two could be scum together (woo! more shitty associative tells).

Farside is a meh read for me. I think her demeanor points to town, but I don't agree with some of her reads and who she's chosen to push this game. I also don't think I'm a particularly strong player, so my issue with her could be completely unfounded.

I saw a Grapes post somewhere but I don't remember what it said. I thought some of his earlier posts looked town and I'm still waiting for Kagami to tell me what she thought was off about his conclusions.

Who else is in this game? Nati maybe town but Toothy has some issues with her and it doesn't surprise me because he's lashed out at her before. I think Sakura's probably town, but it disappoints me to learn she isn't really a dayvig (I don't know if she claimed a different role). I also thought her wondering why Toothy hasn't been scumreading her yet pointed to town because I've been wondering about that as well. I can't read Gaiden worth a damn. There were some posts from Notty that I thought were town, and I'd feel stronger about that read if Cho-slot is scum. Which, I guess, could point towards town Kats as well, but he's a crafty scumfuck and I refuse to give him any extra room to maneuver.

That Brian guy is a douchebag and I can't believe he would abandon this game for so long. We should burn that scumfuck to the ground.

PEDIT: Yeah no, I'm not reading any of that right now.

[Brian Skies]

Three wagons in a single scum faction game. That's kind of interesting.

[Brian Skies]

Toothy, I have thoughts on this, but I want to know what you think about it.

[Brian Skies]

I retracted innocent child.

[Brian Skies]

Day 5 confirmable role that may or may not have already been claimed.

[Brian Skies]

Also, you shouldn't even have to read me based on my role at this point.

[Brian Skies]

i'm not "undermining" you except in the sense that i'm not dealing with your bullshit - you don't answer questions, it took until you were wagoned for you to start calling anyone scum seriously and when you do you can't even answer why with something more than "because he thinks i'm scum"

I didn't know why. It seemed like the same old thing that happens every game, scum attempting to get me mislynched.
Although, I'll admit that my scumread of you was probably influenced by the obnoxiously self-important way in which you play.

The second line resonates with my reaction to Toothy the first time I had to attempt to read him. But didn't you just play a game with him? So shouldn't you already know this isn't scum-indicative of him?

- in what way, for example, do you think my play here differs from paradise lost

and why do you think this makes me scum? in what ways do you think my push on you is coming from a scum mindset (without using an argument akin to "because i'm town")?

Your haiku thing was completely different to everything you posted in Paradise Lost.

Did you have an issue with his haikus or any of the content within them?

You also didn't answer any of the bolded.

Gaiden, lol. I'll just say scum because it's apparently likely that one of the doublevoters is scum and one is town, but that'd only work for like three or four days, depending on how many scum there are so that's BS. Maybe on the odd days or the even days there's something. Nah, I have no idea. Sakura thinks he's town and Sakura thinks she's always right about Gaiden's alignment so that balances the aforementioned non-reason to scumread Gaiden. Overall though, leaning town because he's the same lurkish town player I've encountered before.

? What's your read on Gaiden? You kind of jumped all around here and I have no idea what it is you think about that slot.

[Brian Skies]

Toothy, I have thoughts on this, but I want to know what you think about it.

honestly, it doesn't particularly interest me pre-flips but i'm guessing you're asking me this for a specific reason and i think there's a few potential alternate explanations that could make sense depending on who's actually scum

she could be jumping all over the noddy wagon right now, but she's not; instead she's pushing someone because she suspects she was being white-knighted in the pages i and others were attacking her - i'm not really seeing this as scum making up reasons atm, it looks kinda genuine

I wasn't looking for anything specific other than this. I just found it interesting that two of the players being wagoned were pushing a third completely different wagon together when Lala could just easily jump onto Notty if she's scum. It's just one of those things that's in the back of my mind, and if Lala's scum, I think there's a good chance Notty could be her buddy (I also think, but I'm not sure, the Cho wagon happened before the Notty wagon, so this is a pretty 'meh' point the more I think about it).

There are some other things but I agree it's not worth discussing without flips.

only problem is i don't really feel good about any of the other wagons happening at the moment so i don't really know what i wanna do today.

I'd be fine with lynching Cho, but you seem to think that slot is town. So it mostly comes down to who you think would be likely to flip scum because someone has to be scum here. Unless you just want to lynch out of those more inactive players like Nati, Grapes, or Kagami (who is on V/LA or something). The last one is a wagon I would get behind. Lynching Nati isn't something I particularly feel good about right now because I'm not sure she's likely to flip scum here.

i'm having a hard time seeing what lala is doing right now with TTH as scum-scum. also don't really think cho hard-defends a scum buddy like he did lala

if TTH is scum, it would make me feel pretty good about lala actually

Okay.

also was kind of hoping you'd have a stronger opinion on noddy than the one you have

I think he's town. I think he's consistently shown flashes of his town game here, but I'm keeping an eye on him because he almost snowed me in the last game we played together. I'm also not a fan of the people that have been pushing his wagon (Muffin, Kagami, Grapes, maybe Nacho who I still think might be town). Should I be shooting some fireworks or warning flares or something?

Unlike you, I would lynch Farside and not for policy reasons.

[Brian Skies]

sukura, zzmuffin, nacho and oversoul.

I don't see it. I feel like there's a lot of context missing when you only include her votes and I don't see how consistently voting the people she thinks are scummy makes her and these two more likely to be scum together. I also feel like Oversoul's being included for pretty arbitrary reasons and I don't see why he's more likely to be a scummate than other players in this playerlist.

[Brian Skies]

^I also find it more likely Oversoul's posts are more likely to be coming from a town mindset than as scum mindset, so there's that as well.

[Brian Skies]

Wow, I butchered that post.

[Brian Skies]

I'm nothing but nerve.

But when my number 1 scumread is asking me to consolidate a wagon on a null scum read

As an opportunity to save myself

Don't you think it's suspicious?

For me, no. For you, makes some sense.

BRIAN

IM STILL WAITING FOR YOU

?

Regretting that fly by comment right about now, ain't ya?

[Brian Skies]

HEY MELACHONYMATHEMATICS
IM SORRY BUT I CANT FOLLOW YOU ONTO THAT WAGON

HAI OOBA

I STILL THINK THAT AT LEAST TWO OUT OF THE SET OF {NACHO, ZMUFF, FARSIDE} ARE SCUM BUT I CANT FIGURE OUT WHO RIGHT NOW. I PROBABLY want to nuke farside first and go from there, and figure out nacho and zmuff later.

You look more and more town to me the longer this game goes on.

Cho or Farside. You pick one and I'll unconditionally sheep you.

[Brian Skies]

Cho's not in this game anymore.

[Brian Skies]

And I'll probably continue doing so. But if I vote, I'll still call that slot TTH.

[Brian Skies]

I'm waiting for Cupcake.

[Brian Skies]

Katsuki, Brian:

Can either of u articulate why farside is scum?

I can't see it.

Because I haven't agreed with any of her pushes on account of me thinking that person was town at the time she's done it. I already mentioned there's a huge clash between our reads this game.

[Brian Skies]

HEY MELACHONYMATHEMATICS
IM SORRY BUT I CANT FOLLOW YOU ONTO THAT WAGON

HAI OOBA

I STILL THINK THAT AT LEAST TWO OUT OF THE SET OF {NACHO, ZMUFF, FARSIDE} ARE SCUM BUT I CANT FIGURE OUT WHO RIGHT NOW. I PROBABLY want to nuke farside first and go from there, and figure out nacho and zmuff later.

You look more and more town to me the longer this game goes on.

Cho or Farside. You pick one and I'll unconditionally sheep you.

I don't think we'll get a Farside wagon in time so have to settle with sheeping MELACHONYMATHEMATICS

Okay.

VOTE: TTH

[Brian Skies]

Well your officially off my x-mad list.

You were mad at me?

That doesn't mean jack shit and you know that.

True. But it doesn't make me feel very warm and fuzzy about you when I think you could be trying to pin mislynches on players I think are town.

[Brian Skies]

zMuffinMan scumread goes through the roof if Nati flips scum by the by.

Why? He's generally pretty good at reading Nati, so I don't think Nati scum makes Toothy any more likely to be scum.

[Brian Skies]

i guess i could see scumnotty making an awkward reference to previous scumplay?

also, did someone mention pvz before he did? if they didnt and he brought it up out of the blue, then it's definitely weird. i can't use the search function to find references to pvz which is annoying.

Yes, would you like an example?

I may have brought it up before he did this game as I was discrediting Lala's townread on him. But I'm not sure when Notty brought it up.

I dunno. His read on me was interesting and I forgot I told him that.

[Brian Skies]

Because I find the interaction around my wagon un-townish enough to be suspicious, while also seeing things that don't look scum-scum

i didn't mind grapes's wall of stuff so much - do you have issue/s with it apart from the you read?
...

I think the content overall is fine, but I don't think the conclusion matches the content.

I don't get the same impression. What do you think is off?

[Brian Skies]

i'm actually thinking nati is scum right now (except i have no good argument for this other than i think 1579-1581 was nati-scum)

brian

I don't particularly care if Nati gets lynched. I'm not confident in my ability to read him, I just like other wagons more (particularly the one I'm sitting on).

[Brian Skies]

Going underground, will post more when I have service

how much time should pass before we start sending rescue teams

This is also giving me some mild paranoia associated with PYP Nacho.

But if he's busy, then he's busy. And I don't see why all these other players get to slide through the holiday weekend but not Nacho.

[Brian Skies]

Will be back later. Have only read a few things this day phase, but I think TTH is a good place for my vote. I still have a pretty strong townread on Mac. I think zMuff is likelier to be town and I don't see why he would oppose all three leading wagons from yesterday to drive a lynch on his own scumbuddy. That just seems a little haphazard to me even for him. I still think Notty and Oversoul are most likely town. If Nacho is softclaiming Day 3 doublevoter, I would lynch him.

I'm also not a doublevoter and unless you all got to choose which day you could be a doublevoter on, I don't understand why you would think I've been softclaiming it. Also, I was vanillarized yesterday and I can no longer confirm my role. I don't think town would just vanillarize a confirmable role, much less four days before I can confirm myself, so it's most likely a scum role.

[Brian Skies]

Oh, I forgot my vote.

VOTE: TTH

[Brian Skies]

I still think Notty and Oversoul are most likely town.

you know that i'm going to ask you why you have a townread on notscience, right?

i think your sole focusing on notty and not on anyone or anything else is detrimental to the town and not really coming from a town mindset. you don't seem to be scumhunting, all you seem to be doing is trying your best to ensure notty ends up with rope around his neck. that doesn't feel like town!nacho to me, it's not the nacho I know and love

who ever it was who said *crosses fingers* when nati was hammered might be scum. checking back, it was oversoul. which doesn't surprise me. it felt fake as fuck, like "look how town I am hoping for a scum lynch!"

i'm focusing on notty as much as i am because i'm one of the only people scumreading him, i think that notty-scum plays worse when all the focus is put on him, and i think it's going to take a while to eat away at notscience townreads and so me constantly popping up and reminding everyone that hey, he's still scum and he's still not doing shit is going to be fairly important if i ever want to get him lynched. I also think that he, as town, has very town responses to pressure (and the more pressure, the townier the response).

Yes, I was going to explain to some great lengths as to why I thought he was town, but the more I think about it and write it out, it's a pretty soft read and I don't have anything concrete to back it up. I'm mostly skeptical of the people pushing him (and by people I mean you) and I share in his distrust of the TTH slot. As far as being able to fake reads goes, I think it's something he's capable of doing as scum, I just thought some of his observations and the way he's been carrying himself could be more indicative of town Notty.

Your response to Mac here does make me feel better about you though and I agree that scum Notty doesn't deal very well with pressure. It's something I'm keeping note of as the game goes along because I know scum Notty will struggle to keep up. But it's one of those things where I know you're expecting him to do certain things and I feel it's possible he's just being patient like he was in Advance Wars.

I can confidently state Notty is most likely not the vanillarizer, but that doesn't make him town by any means. It just means he's lower on my lynch list than some of the other players that may or may not be slipping through the cracks right now.

What are your reads on TTH, Kagami, and Grapes right now?

if you're vanillaized, can you claim what your role was? since it's useless

I'm White Rabbit, Timekeeper, Day * Unlynchable Townie. So no, I'm not Nightingale. Otherwise I'd just be like 'nah man, I'm totally an innocent child, lynch me at your own risk.' I chose Day 5 because I wanted to pick a day that I would likely be targeted for a mislynch. But I didn't put much thought into my choice and didn't realize how many players were in this game, otherwise I probably would have chosen Day 7 or 8. Day 5 is still fine though and I'm disappointed someone decided I shouldn't be allowed to keep my role.

I think zMuff is likelier to be town and I don't see why he would oppose all three leading wagons from yesterday to drive a lynch on his own scumbuddy.

this would make sense if muffinman was the driving force behind the nati-lynch. he wasn't.

remembering back, he seemed to hedge his bets with it for most of the day.

He wasn't jumping up and down strongarming us into lynching Nati, but I felt he was at least partly responsible for us lynching her by the end of the day. And I don't really see any issue with the way his read developed on her. It's also possible he was trying to protect a different buddy or bussed her for no reason, but the latter is something I prefer to look for in Nacho and Toothy's posting thus far still looks town to me.

Toothy at beginning of Day 1: "Nati's probably town for that one contentless post." It's at the bottom.
Toothy at middle of Day 1: "Nati, do something townish. You look pretty meh to me."
Toothy near end of Day 1: "Nati looks like scum." I don't see why Toothy would have to doubtcast Nati at this point.
Toothy a little later: "Nati wagon ahoy!"

If BS is telling the truth about being vanilla-ized, I'd be extremely surprised at FG if nacho were scum.

(not explaining why)

Then don't be surprised when I ignore this post.

Natirasha, who was Executioner, The Joker, and Mafia N5 Vig, has been lynched in Day 1.

I bet the a vanillaizer would be town.

So someone who chooses to vanillarize me on Day 1 before the flip was decided and several days before my role would be confirmed by the mod without considering what my role could be or sorting me in those several days is more likely to be town? I'm not the innocent child, but please excuse me if I just don't buy it right now.

I think it's more likely the vanillarizer is scum, knew I was softclaiming a power role, and decided to take it away from me so it wouldn't be any sort of threat to their team.

I don't think being parked on my wagon while a scum lynch is going down based on a stale reason is particularly townish.

Do you?

I'd be fine with lynching Cho, but you seem to think that slot is town. So it mostly comes down to who you think would be likely to flip scum because someone has to be scum here. Unless you just want to lynch out of those more inactive players like Nati, Grapes, or Kagami (who is on V/LA or something). The last one is a wagon I would get behind. Lynching Nati isn't something I particularly feel good about right now because I'm not sure she's likely to flip scum here.

Saying that about Nati while thinking a Kagami lynch would be fine and dandy is also :\

In the many games I've played with Nati, I've only correctly read her twice (and they were both for role-related reasons). The only other time I didn't misread her, we were scumbuddies. So pardon me if I don't have any confidence in reading her, especially when there are other players I wanted to lynch.

Kagami disappeared for a large length of time and I thought she was avoiding my earlier question to her. She's just meh to me. Same thing with Grapes. He makes town looking posts and says town looking things, but he hasn't explained his last handful of reads and he doesn't really interact with us that much. The latter is someone I'm worried is just trying to slink back and hide in the shadows (8 posts,

8

).

As far as vote parking your wagon, I said I was fine with Nati being lynched and knew I wouldn't be awake come deadline. I left it on you in case something happened that would make the other players change their minds and I was fine leaving my vote on a player I think is likely scum rather than 'meh, could be scum.'

And it's not like it was the epitome of cooperation either, where Brian and Katsuki held hands and sang a song. It took quite a bit of yammering and brute force on notscience and Katsuki's end before the vote change finally came.

The song singing sounds beautiful and totally like something Cupcake and I would do. But I'm not sure what you're talking about or why Katsuki or Notty supposedly needing to convince me to vote you makes me more likely to be scum.

Not sure why you think town would target a player that says they could confirm themselves.
Can you explain that since you are the one focusing must be town role?

I think I'm going with my gut instead of my head right now.

vote: TTH

He said he could confirm

the role

, not confirm

himself

. There's a difference.

I don't really get to confirm myself, the mod does. But it still doesn't change the fact that I set a specific perception in the game and someone chose to act upon that perception and vanillarize me.

Also, before anyone asks, I know it's a Day 1 action because I was told I was vanillarized at the same time as the flip. So either the scumteam just wanted to keep me open for a mislynch or the vanillarizer was almost lynched.

[Brian Skies]

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How do you conclude I'm the Nightingale just because I was vanillarized?

[Brian Skies]

I would have been unlynchable and FakeGod would have announced it at the beginning of the day phase.

[Brian Skies]

Brian's theory of the vanillalizer would seem to point towards NS?

I told you he wasn't.

[Brian Skies]

Brian, ask FakeGod if you flip as a Vt now or your original role

If you flip as Vt then the Vanillalizer is most definitely scum.

I'll ask, but I don't see why the Vanillarizer would work differently for different alignments.

[Brian Skies]

Brian says the person about to be lynched would do that? I think NS was the last major wagon to Nati.

There were other competing wagons though.

[Brian Skies]

I'm glad the TTH wagon disappeared, it kinda sucked.

I disagree and I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

I'd entertain a Grapes lynch though.

[Brian Skies]

Reason: his read on me calls me town yet I somehow make his lynch shortlist?

It looked like a complete waffle more than anything and you don't seem to be very high on his shortlist of lynches (which has 6 names on it and isn't really that short).

[Brian Skies]

There's only one known neighborhood: Sakura's card neighborhood

It consists of:

Gaiden - D1 doublevoter
Sakura/ooba/salamance -

Super mystery role

D2 doublevoter
TTH - D3 doublevoter
Bork - D4 doublevoter
Nati - N5 vig

Interesting, but inelegant. And if you're all truly doublevoters, then I don't understand what FG was expecting Nati to do on D5 except to rely on his Joker flavor.

[Brian Skies]

Brian, ask FakeGod if you flip as a Vt now or your original role

If you flip as Vt then the Vanillalizer is most definitely scum.

I'll ask, but I don't see why the Vanillarizer would work differently for different alignments.

He just said I'm now a Vanilla Townie. If I were scum, I'd be a Mafia Goon. And then he linked me here.

[Brian Skies]

Are those same exact points that you play as scum regardless of your actual alignment?

I find this statement offensive.

Were you going to answer her other question or just sidestep it with the comment you made here?

[Brian Skies]

I thought the cocky muffin was a toothy muffin.

[Brian Skies]

Brian, to answer your question earlier, it is not so much that a vanillalizer will always act one way as one alignment (in terms of the role) it is that vanillalizer is not a standard role and depending on how FakeGod is using it in this game, he may have balanced it a certain way.

Okay. I've only seen i once before and I have no idea what alignment it was. I just don't like the way it was used this game and I think it's more likely to be coming from scum or someone we almost lynched yesterday (that isn't named Notty).

[Brian Skies]

I also love how Cupcake is skirting a simple yes or no question like we wouldn't learn the truth by Day 5 anyway.

[Brian Skies]

I don't think there necessarily has to be a D5 doublevoter because:
1) That's the earliest point in the game where a Lylo situation can be reasonably anticipated, which, in and of its own, makes that role more likely to be a town role.
2) It's not in the doublevoter hood.
3) Nati's role clearly deviates from the established theme of its hood.

Unless there's another doublevoter hood, Gaiden's role could be a red herring.

I think we should stop speculating about the setup until we massclaim (which should be soon anyway) because FakeGod tends to come up with some weird concepts (that are typically skewed towards a town win condition since his games are cursed).

[Brian Skies]

I'll refer you all to sakuras sketchy vote, unvote of nati...somewhere in her iso. But like the it happened on pretty much the same page. Can't be arsed to quote shit on my phone.

It pretty much is screaming distancing, or maybe distancing isn't the right word. Maybe like, an attempted negative association or w/e. Particularly because the unvote didn't make any sense. Like she quoted muffinman saying "my reads on nati are like sakuras reads on gaiden"

Which not only looks an awful lot like taking the first excuse to get her vote off a buddy but doesn't really mesh with the fact muffinman wasn't really defending nati at all at the point.

So I'm not sure how that's a que to unvote or anything.

I can get behind that

Unvote
Vote: Nati

Better place for my vote while i wait for notscience anyway, and a good place for it to be if his case doesnt convince me.

i don't really wanna start a wagon on nati at the moment, partially because it's one read i really want to be sure of if it's going to happen and i'm nowhere near where i want that read to be atm, and partially because i don't want a last-minute deadline wagon happening

i'd rather the wagons just stay on lala and noddy since it actually wouldn't surprise me if they're both scum given their utter refusal to have anything to do with each other

? I mean, I get what you're saying based on what Sakura chose to quote (not really, I just feel like being understanding at the moment), but I can see it as Sakura just interpreting what Toothy was saying as 'you should just trust in my ability to read Nati' more than anything else.

You also never mentioned Cupcake and I'm interested to hear your thoughts on him based on the last few pages.

[Brian Skies]

Oh look, another doublevoter. How interesting.

[Brian Skies]

I don't remember calling your role scummy.

[Brian Skies]

I mean, we have 6 doublevoters plus Cupcake.

[Brian Skies]

Well, the TTH wagon is clearly inferior to the one with the double voters on it, so I think now's a pretty good time for Kats to give us a straight answer.

[Brian Skies]

I think you could be scum and I don't like the Sala wagon specifically because TTH is leading it and I don't trust Grapes, who conveniently hopped on with an angle I can't really see coming from town.

You also can't seem to answer a simple yes or no question, which, regardless of your alignment or your role, shouldn't be a problem.

If it came down to you or Sala, I would vote you.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Grapes

[Brian Skies]

if you're vanillaized, can you claim what your role was? since it's useless

I'm White Rabbit, Timekeeper, Day * Unlynchable Townie. So no, I'm not Nightingale. Otherwise I'd just be like 'nah man, I'm totally an innocent child, lynch me at your own risk.' I chose Day 5 because I wanted to pick a day that I would likely be targeted for a mislynch. But I didn't put much thought into my choice and didn't realize how many players were in this game, otherwise I probably would have chosen Day 7 or 8. Day 5 is still fine though and I'm disappointed someone decided I shouldn't be allowed to keep my role.

[Brian Skies]

I'm a popular late game mislynch.

[Brian Skies]

Also, you're more than welcome to question me on what I would've done, except I didn't actually do it. So...

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Sala

[Brian Skies]

Only if someone counterclaims.

[Brian Skies]

Where did MelancholyMath go?

[Brian Skies]

I'm also a big fan of lynching TTH.

Losing an IC in exchange for scum seems like the most useful thing an IC can accomplish.

[Brian Skies]

Nightingale is aligned with Town.

[Brian Skies]

I don't care if there's already scum in your hood or not. There are so many of you that I think more than one can exist.

[Brian Skies]

Hey Kats, if you survive, let me know if you get vanillarized.

[Brian Skies]

Called what?

[Brian Skies]

Oh, well, he's had that avatar for a while now. So I believe him when he says he doesn't know what bird it is. It does look like a nightingale though.

[Brian Skies]

I thought he was just asking me for my flavor. I backed off earlier because I was thinking of other setup related stuff and I kind of just want to mass claim tomorrow.

[Brian Skies]

It's a day action.

[Brian Skies]

If this were EpicMafia, I would have. But people on this site don't take kindly to liars.

[Brian Skies]

It only works if both players are on the same page. I wasn't sure if you were asking me because you were the Nightingale asking for a role swap or if you were just trying to figure out if I was scum.

[Brian Skies]

I'm a rabbit and I don't remember being given a cute and fluffy QT.

[Brian Skies]

I heard scum like to vanillarize the players they think are the Nightingale.

[Brian Skies]

Also, yes please.

VOTE: TTH

[Brian Skies]

You're right. They'd probably just kill it.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: sala

[Brian Skies]

I'm fine with a Grapes lynch.

I'd also like to get a mass claim done sooner rather than later, but if everyone else wants to wait, then I'm fine with that as well.

[Brian Skies]

I'm also flattered Nacho thinks I'd run around and claim random shit as scum.

[Brian Skies]

Because all of the FakeGod setups I've played in have made more sense with massclaims than without it. And I'm actually pretty surprised Toothy hasn't asked for one yet.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: TTH

[Brian Skies]

Grapes is still sketchy and I'd love to hear what he has to say today with regards to his role.

Other than "Farside is lying scum," I don't expect anything else from Notty today. Especially since I already know what his role is. Although I'm curious if this is a legitimate hard guilty or just an incriminating result.

Also, didn't someone promise us they'd try and sort Gaiden last night? Or did we lynch that person already?

[Brian Skies]

Is there a reason I'm the only person you've neighborized thus far?

[Brian Skies]

No one hammers until our "roleblocker" shows up. Also, has anyone else been vanillarized this game or just me?

[Brian Skies]

I'll be sure to sprinkle you with the delight of my bland and uninspiring vanilla soul tonight. Also can't tell if you're just baiting us because *gasp* you're actually part of a 4-man scumteam.

Does it bother you that our claimed roleblocker is still alive?

[Brian Skies]

what did you guys talk about in the neighborhood?

MelancholyMath

: The gif I posted was actually a crumb.

MelancholyMath

: I had a neighborizor in Corpse party and wanted to go the subtle route here.

Brian

: Is there anything about your role I should know about?

Brian

: Sorry for the late response. I wasn't expecting to be neighborized. I wasn't lying about my role.

Brian

: Well, I lied about part of it, but I retracted it. Why neighborize me over someone else? Not sure what you mean by crumb and your role deviates from what I expect from the setup, but it is a FakeGod setup. I think Toothy, Bork, and Mac are town but will have to look through the game again. How do you feel about Nacho scumreading you?

Brian

: Are you going to be available later or just blame me for wasting half the time we had to talk to each other?

MelancholyMath

: No? I'll explain more about my crumb later. I initally planned on targeting Sakura before she replaced out. I think I want to look at the Nati wagon because scum may have powerbussed her.

Brian

: Is your action a day action? I was targeted by another day action and was wondering if it was part of your role.

Some flavor stuff

.

MelancholyMath

: I'm just a neighborizor. I'm going to look at the people who didn't have much reasoning to be on the Nati wagon.

Some waffling on Nacho and how Nacho is reading him.

Brian

: Okay, I asked because I'm a D* Unlynchable Townie and was vanillarized. Still not a fan of Farside or TTH.

Brian

: I think Nacho may have been crumbing a town role early on.

MelancholyMath

: Farside feels like she did in Survivor. Agree on TTH. Overwhelmed on the softclaims.

Brian

: I don't think Oversoul is scummy considering he had a late replace in. Farside is more of a PoE read, and I do think her demeanor might point towards town.

MelancholyMath

: Oversoul is more not town rather than scummy for me.

[Brian Skies]

lalaladucks

second best scum pick at the moment. hasn't really done much the whole game IMO apart from shout at zmuffin. lately, she's not been great (pot. kettle. black. I know) and it saddens me to want to lynch her, but I do

I was thinking Lala could be scum with Notty early on. I'll have to look at it again because I only remembered it after I iso'ed myself. It was just related to how Lala and Notty were pushing a third wagon together and how Lala wanted to vote Nacho in response to Cho wanting to wagon Notty.

[Brian Skies]

don't remember that and can't be bothered to go look for it now but you will I guess

I wasn't going to, but I don't think the others will look for it if I don't.

Spoiler:

VOTE: notscience

Wagon ho?

VOTE: Nacho

Cho ho?

It's just the first thing that crossed my mind after Notty flipped scum because you two were pushing several wagons together and seemed averse to voting each other.

I also think optimal play says to lynch Mac today. Although lynching roleblocker targets hasn't worked out very well for me in the past.

[Brian Skies]

Also, where has Muffin and Oversoul gone?

[Brian Skies]

Who did you check? Notty and myself?

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Mac

[Brian Skies]

If Mac's scum, I can proudly say I was 0/3 on scumreads this game.

[Brian Skies]

If Mac's scum, I can proudly say I was 0/3 on scumreads this game.

Also probably why I was vanillarized and not killed.

[Brian Skies]

i'm probably just being paranoid, but given ns's flip, i find it odd that only brian was neighborized and vanilla-ized.

I find it odd as well. I was expecting him to be neighborizing other players because I didn't think FakeGod would include a role with two linked and very different actions like that. But Notty probably got scared after I claimed outright that I was vanillarized and the vanillarizer was probably scum. It's also pretty difficult to avoid being suspected when the vanillarize and neighborize seem to be linked together.

I also paraphrased the stuff from our neighborhood. There was more, but I cut out the parts I thought were irrelevant.

I also said I was a

Day

5 confirmable role. What is with all this "Brian is a scum backup that can kill at night"?

If[/if] I'm scum, which I'm not, then I probably used the factional kill and I still have another partner or something who could be the scum backup. But no, let's default to Brian is the 'scum backup.'

Also, the only way I'm scum is if I'm scum with Grapes since there's no way I'd let a roleblocker roam free to screw me over later, and I'd definitely kill him before a rolecop (which doesn't actually do anything and I would know since it's one of my favorite roles and I recently ran a large normal with one) or a claimed innocent child (who also doesn't actually do anything except stand around, look pretty, and chastise the other players for not listening to it). And neither of them thought I was scum. So why would I kill either of them over Grapes?

I also love how you think my preferred method of utilizing a scum vanillarizer is to confirm myself instead of having it go around and screwing over townies we don't plan on ever killing.

I'm still thinking about some things since this game has taken some really weird turns recently. I'm still convinced Muffin is town, and he seems to think Nacho is town, so I'm just like, 'ok, whatever, Nacho can be town until I reread some things,' but I'm still paranoid about him. I've been wanting to lynch Lala for a while, but I'm a little concerned about Gaiden and I don't know why we should blindly follow anything Grapes says since he's probably not even town, especially since his "results" haven't done jack shit for us. Also, that Oversoul scumbag claimed VT and I don't know how much I want to believe FakeGod decided to include a single random vanilla role in a role heavy game. And I currently have this theory that he isn't one and that the extra kill isn't the result of N5 vig or scum backup, but that scum probably have a PGO or something and Farside accidentally suicided herself onto him.

[Brian Skies]

And I currently have this theory that he isn't one and that the extra kill isn't the result of N5 vig or scum backup, but that scum probably have a PGO or something and Farside accidentally suicided herself onto him.

This would also require Grapes to be scum for it to be true.

[Brian Skies]

vt

[Brian Skies]

I'm still thinking about some things since this game has taken some really weird turns recently. I'm still convinced Muffin is town, and he seems to think Nacho is town, so I'm just like, 'ok, whatever, Nacho can be town until I reread some things,' but I'm still paranoid about him. I've been wanting to lynch Lala for a while, but I'm a little concerned about Gaiden and I don't know why we should blindly follow anything Grapes says since he's probably not even town, especially since his "results" haven't done jack shit for us. Also, that Oversoul scumbag claimed VT and I don't know how much I want to believe FakeGod decided to include a single random vanilla role in a role heavy game. And I currently have this theory that he isn't one and that the extra kill isn't the result of N5 vig or scum backup, but that scum probably have a PGO or something and Farside accidentally suicided herself onto him.

I love you, I'm still mostly townreading you, but this post sucks monkey nuts.

Why do you think Muffin is town?
Why are you paranoid of me?
Why do you want to lynch Lala, and why does concern of Gaiden make you want to lynch her less?
Who is following grapes?

The vanilla point is bad, it's been done plenty and everywhere and there's no actual reason why it couldn't have been done here.

Muffin's never rolled scum in any game we've played together and I wouldn't know what to look for in a scum him anyway. I do think his early defense of me this game was a little strange, but nothing he's said or done seems out of the ordinary from him and I haven't seen anything that leaps out to me as coming from a scummy mindset. I know some of the others don't like the way he ended up voting for Nati, but I don't see a strong reason for him to bus Nati at that point unless he just wanted to save Notscience. I also don't think this is a very strong point for scum-Muffin since there were other wagons he could have pushed instead.

I'm paranoid of you because I thought you were crumbing a town power role early on that turned out to be a lame double voter. I can see you pretending to plea with the scumteam to leave you around because you asked nicely and I know you're more than willing to bus your teammates. I'm mostly just keeping you at arms length right now because I know you're a good player, but I also know I can't expect you to be perfect and it's possible you were just right about Notty. I also don't remember a lot of what you've said or done this game and it's because I've been paying more attention to the other players than you since you weren't here very much early on.

I still want to lynch Lala. I still think the wagons on Day 1 built up really strangely (which is something I've been avoiding taking another look at since FakeGod doesn't give us any votecounts during that span) and Muffin did make an early point about Lala and Notty seeming to avoid not wanting to do anything with each other. Lala did try to redirect the Nacho wagon onto Notty, which I pointed out earlier and it's something that's been standing out and bugging me since she did it. It's also been pointed out by some of the others that some of her posting that's supposed to be her working things out in the game just don't seem natural. I don't remember ever specifically mentioning my concern of Gaiden making me want to lynch her less. It's mostly been the culmination of my paranoia on pretty much everyone else that makes me hesitant to vote right now.

We've blindly followed Grapes' roleblocker claim by letting him live the first time we ran him up and we did just trust that he found scum last night. He's also been insinuating that we should just continue to trust in his claim today. I'll admit that most of my issues with him is based on his activity in a fast paced game (10 day deadline?) and him being wrong about Mac since I've mostly thought he was town early on. I just know there are some players that have gotten away as scum with low activity by just making the occasional town-sounding post, and it's something I've been capable of doing before.

Yeah, I don't care. It's just something I'm thinking about since it's pretty random and strays a bit from the setup FakeGod seems to have been trying to make. I was mostly assuming FakeGod's idea of a vanilla townie this game was a day specific double voter since there are so many of them.

I still have no idea how to read Gaiden and I'd love your thoughts on him.

GRAPES (scum goon)-OVERSOUL (scum backup)
BRIAN SKIES (backup)-OVERSOUL (goon)
ZMUFFINMAN (backup) -OVERSOUL (goon)

GAIDEN (D1 Doublevoter, N5 Backup) - OVERSOUL (goon)
LALALA (D1 Doublevoter, N5 Backup) - OVERSOUL (goon)

All the other pairings aside, why can I only be a backup and not a goon?

Well, if I'm town then based on all the liberties your taking from your pov it pretty much has to be brian.

Um, what? How did you reach this conclusion based on what he's said? Especially when both of you are saying I'm likely to be town based on Notty interactions?

I'd like to give those guys more credit in being able to make a heads up play as scum like that.

Also, probably, but not without daytalk.

My one big reservation is her position on the nati wagon but I think our dead vig put it best.

I think the one thing I have to say about this is that the Nati wagon was a counterwagon to the Notty wagon. So I don't really think she deserves as much towncred for it as she's been given.

brian,

can you break down the conversation you had with noddy by which nights each part of it happened?

I have no idea what you're talking about since our neighborhood was only opened for Night 1 and I was expecting him to neighborize other players since he told me he was a neighborizer with temporary 1-Night neighborhoods.

[Brian Skies]

Dreamworld N1

[Brian Skies]

Well, it's probably just Dreamworld since that's the pretty title FakeGod gave it in the thread under the image he provided and everything. But the thread is titled Dreamworld N1.

[Brian Skies]

*The title is above the image.

[Brian Skies]

It also said we'd be the only players with access to the thread.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Lala

[Brian Skies]

Okay I blocked brian skies. Which should of been obvious to anyone paying attention.

It's pretty obvious. But I don't know why scum didn't just take a shot at me since me being blocked would have been a free chance at a night kill. It's also not like we can't just no lynch here.

I'm also fairly confident leaving you alive for the sole purpose of you finding scum for us at this point is useless.

If we're lynching today, I want it to be out of:
Nacho
Gaiden
Grapes
Brian (just so I can escape this strange as heck game)

[Brian Skies]

I'm actually starting to like the idea of a no lynch right now with the stipulation Grapes doesn't block me.

If he does block me, scum can kill me for a free kill, which is pretty tempting the more I think about it.
But if he doesn't block me and scum still want to keep me from being cleared, they'd have to make a kill, and probably on Grapes if Grapes is indeed a town roleblocker.

[Brian Skies]

I also think a Grapes town flip clears Oversoul, so I don't mind having a cleared townie at the expense of losing a useless power role.

[Brian Skies]

I like the not-brian target stipulation. And the worst thing that can happen is we all end up back here in the same position and have to lynch someone. Or I guess lose Grapes, but I don't see how that's terrible since we might potentially clear Oversoul. \o/

[Brian Skies]

I was worried about the delayed kill as well, but really, that's only a major problem this round if it's a four man scumteam. And for the most part, some of you think scum have too much power to have that many members as it is. It also wouldn't explain why we've only seen it used once unless you think it's some sort of limitation for whoever the remaining scum are (as in they can't make a standard factional kill).

[Brian Skies]

If it's a delayed kill, then we're about to get two flips, yeah?

So it comes back to whether you think it's a three-man scumteam or a four-man scumteam what with a delayed kill, vanillarizing neighborizer, and N5 vig against a bunch of doublevoters, a day specific lynchproof, and some random investigative roles that don't actually give clear alignment indicative results.

Also, if it's a delayed kill, I'd probably just lynch Grapes since his claim makes the most sense as having a viable explanation to mask the delayed kill.

[Brian Skies]

if there is a delayed kill, that is how i'm assuming it would work (both because it makes sense of what's been happening on the nights with no kills and because otherwise it'd just be broken)

Also, not really? We have an extra kill on one night that can be explained by scum having a backup or someone lying about their role and actually being a PGO. But we haven't seen the other power on any other night, so either the other scum was blocked (Nacho is the only one still remaining from Grapes' list of roleblocks), scum have limited shots (possible and would be what I'm leaning towards if they do have a delayed kill), or scum were doing what I like to do and were just hiding the fact they have this delayed kill ability from us so they can finish us off in one fell swoop (in which case, why bother tipping their hand on Night 5).

[Brian Skies]

Yea brian I'm sure you'd love to no lynch have me not block you and 'just lynch grapes' the day after. are you fucking serious with this shit?

On what grounds would I be able to lynch you unless there's actually a delayed kill?

But assuming scum have some kinda of delayed kill mechanic when we've only seen two kills one night...on night five, after seeing two N5 vig flips...is a pretty big stretch I think. But saying my role makes sense as scum based on that is utter bullshit and you know it.

Also, not really. It would provide viable explanations for lack of NK's on specific nights, especially if you set your claim up properly.

It's also not even something I'm concerned about, but you seem freaked out over it.

[Brian Skies]

Here's a viable explanation for the lack of NKs on any night. Scum didn't feel like killing anybody.

The delayed kill isn't even my theory. And if you've been reading my posts, I've been shooting it down.

[Brian Skies]

Also while you're here you wanna talk about your nacho and gaiden reads? Preferably something besides the whole scum in the double voters for *reasons* stuff that has been floating around lately. And even admittedly I've kinda been buying into a bit.

I have no idea how to read Gaiden and typically read around him.

Nacho is someone I'm a tad paranoid of this game because I feel like he's just not doing all that much compared to what I expect of him. His Lala townread felt more like avoiding the wagon, and I found it interesting that when pressed on his reasons for thinking she was probably town, he didn't actually point to anything that made me think he actually felt that way. He also didn't remove his Grapes vote when he was supposedly considering that Lala could be scum. Also, his behavior here in response to my interest in no killing seems rather cooperative and I was expecting a reaction similar to yours or Toothy's in that not everything might be as it seems, or in your case, that I'm scum trying to take advantage of this opportunity and get more kills. His Notty scumread is just whatever because Notty typically makes himself pretty obvious sometimes and I even like to bus him when I'm his partner. So I'm not giving him much of any credit for that. I also think his recent lack of direction is rather uncharacteristic of him, and I'm only holding back because Toothy and I seem to be at a loss of what to do right now as well.

[Brian Skies]

I'll think about it. The Survivor game I was in just finished, so I'm a little more motivated to do some deeper analysis and a reread.

[Brian Skies]

Can we just lynch Gaiden then?

I'm not convinced anyone else is scum right now and I wouldn't be surprised if the game just ends with a Gaiden lynch.

[Brian Skies]

How did my Lala town read feel like avoiding the wagon and what does that even mean? Do you really think I can't fake a town case on a townie as scum?

To answer the first part, the lack of anything to point towards a Lala townread. To answer the latter part, I think you're more than capable regardless of alignment.

This additionally makes absolutely no sense. You think it's unreasonable for me to agree with your no kill because paranoia is the only acceptable response? I lack direction. Forcing additional information via no lynching seems like a good idea.

Accusing me of uncharacteristic lack of direction when everyone else lacks direction is additionally bleh.

Fair enough. But I already said the last part at the end of my read on you.

on me at all and I wonder why it's a weird paranoia that's centered on me specifically.

I have no idea and it's not something I can explain.

[Brian Skies]

Yeah, well, join the club.

Anyhow, thoughts on the demonfruit?

[Brian Skies]

3)Why wasn't their neighborhood made public?(this may have already been answered?)

Because the public game mechanics said so?

Spoiler:

All neighborhoods (

excluding any temporary neighborhoods

) will be locked and become public at end of Night 4.

I also have no interest in rebutting your post.

The lynch pool should be between:
Grapes
Brian
Gaiden
No Lynch

The block pool should be between (and I really don't care which):
Brian
Muffin

VOTE: Grapes

Gaiden, Brian, or No Lynch are fine alternatives. Gaiden is probably just scum and I don't mind being released from this awful game. But the longer Grapes lives, the more I doubt his claim. And his latest revision to his claim just smells like bullshit so he can keep his options open for tomorrow. His flip also sheds light on Oversoul's alignment as Oversoul can't be scum unless he is. I also don't think there can be a four-man scumteam that doesn't include Grapes.

[Brian Skies]

And his latest revision to his claim just smells like bullshit so he can keep his options open for tomorrow.

What does this mean, exactly?

I was talking about his ascetic modifier. I thought it was too convenient for him to suddenly mention that he was ascetic after we asked him to block a claimed reflexive fruit vendor. It seemed to me that he was either trying to keep Toothy open as a mislynch option or he was trying to avoid anything that might incriminate him in the event he's not actually a roleblocker.

I almost threw my computer out the window when I saw Grapes flip town. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Just so we're clear, I would have killed Grapes in this situation if I were scum because he's still a roleblocker and scum me would still need to find a way to make kills. But I also would have killed him the night after he claimed and the Muffin kill is something I would never have committed. I also would have considered 1v1'ing Grapes for his sudden and unexpected ascetic modifier alone (and I was going to do so had he survived).

It doesn't really make sense for Brian scum to shoot grapes last night and leave the game with 3 confirmed town

Who are the three confirmed town, and why am I not included?

I'm also assuming it's based on there only being one scum left, in which case, the obvious choice seems to be Gaiden and I'd be happy to sacrifice myself to make that happen.

Ok, so:

1) Play-related reasons for Brian being town have faded away long ago. I thought some things he said D1 looked kinda town but I haven't really had any sort of happy read on his play since then whereas I have had a happy read on everyone else.

2) Why did FakeGod allow Brian to choose what day he was unlynchable on? Was the intention of the role really "you choose when you are likely to get mislynched, and you get a reward of... absolutely nothing?".

3) It seems inelegant to include a "Day X" player outside of the neighborhood

because all of our day related roles also had titles that correlated to the days

. Brian doesn't have a title that correlates to any day.

4) Why the hell did Brian claim that his role would make him confirmed town when it didn't? What was the purpose of claiming IC in the beginning? It looks like he originally intended to fakeclaim IC but then changed his mind when people said IC and Nightingale were unlikely to exist together.

5) Why did scumteam burn their vanillaize so early? They didn't know what roles could have been out there to warrant having a vanillaize and most things in the world are much much scarier than "I can confirm myself as town on Day 5".

1) Um, okay.

2) No idea. Probably just something he wanted to include that seemed to fit his theme.

3) The bolded is pretty interesting as I didn't notice that until now. But other than the titles for the days, I'm still the only player with a title related to

time

and it's one that fits how I get to actually choose which day rather than being assigned one.

4) I was joking around and took a quick jab at Toothy based on his previous claims in Viscon: Desert Kingdom and Xenosaga (I thought he actually softclaimed he was an IC in those games, but I guess I was just imagining it). I retracted it because I didn't know there was an actual IC in this setup. I was serious when I said I didn't read anything about the game mechanics before I made that softclaim.

5) I have no idea and the only thing that makes sense to me is that Notty wanted to get rid of whatever role I had since I was blatantly claiming that I was a power role. It's also possible he may have thought I was a dayvig to go along with Nati's role, but I have no idea what he was thinking. I maintain my earlier defense of us not being able to coordinate it without any sort of day talk.

Anyhow, I've been struggling with the idea that I'm wrong about Toothy and he led us into lynching Nati so he could become a N5 vig. But he's been asking to be investigated and roleblocked (or rather just visited by someone in general), so I find that a little unlikely unless he's actually something like a scum PGO. I'm still finding it hard to believe scum would have four members with the power that's been revealed to us as well.

I don't think Oversoul or Nacho are very good lynches for today, even if a four man scumteam is a possibility, because neither of them should be responsible for the double kill on N5. So to me, it has to be either Toothy or Gaiden. Or me I guess since you all still want to wrestle with the idea that Notty vanillarized his buddy and only his buddy, or I guess no one if you really wanna think about it, on Day 1.

[Brian Skies]

Who did you check? Notty and myself?

Nacho and notty

If Farside checked Nacho and he came up as anything other than a regular Doublevoter, I think Farside would have said something. This is also what Toothy was talking about yesterday as far as him being cryptic goes.

So while Nacho can be scum #4 in a scumsided setup, he isn't scum #3 that's responsible for the double kill and that we know exists. Oversoul was roleblocked that night so he'd have to be some sort of strongman role in order to make those kills.

That leaves Gaiden, Toothy, and myself.

[Brian Skies]

though that said, if i were a PGO, this game would probably be over by now? that would mean there's 3 missing kills (N4, N6 and last night since i'd have killed someone other than grapes if i had the ability to kill him via PGO)

Hmm. I didn't consider this.

I have other concerns, but I'm not sure if you're the type of person who likes to mess around as scum or the type that would rather end games as quickly as possible.

this reminds me of one of the reasons i was considering the possibility of gaiden-scum at some point earlier - nobody else still alive really had any incentive to go after fake-muffin. he was obviously not a threat via role, which means someone had to have considered him a threat via play. it's possible it was a noddy-directed kill though, so this isn't the strongest of points

I was considering that scum had access to the bird neighborhood since Muffin died and Kagami was killed right after she claimed monstrous crow, but the only player remaining in the game that had access to that hood is Nacho, and I've already removed him from the table. So if Gaiden is scum, then Kagami and Muffin were killed for reasons unbeknownst to me (Kagami is pretty threatening off of reputation I guess, but I'm not sure what was so threatening about Muffin that they killed him as well).

i will be mildly disappointed if it turns out we coulda just gone through with lynching [Gaiden] yesterday and ended the game quicker

But then I would've been denied the satisfaction of watching Grapes die.

Sakura, revoking your town card given your read on Gaiden.

I would have revoked her towncard for replacing out, but that's probably just me.

VOTE: Gaiden

Free me from this misery.

[Brian Skies]

So Brian, would you humor me and tell me what your role was?

White Rabbit,

Timekeeper

,

Day * Unlynchable Townie

. I chose Day 5.

So who here has played in a hydra with ns?

I have and you were in Saki Mafia with us. To answer your next question, we basically leave each other out to dry throughout the game and consolidate on reads when we have time to. We tend to work well together as far as discussing reads goes, and I thought this was why he chose to neighborize me.

and Brian have dumb roles

Dude, like, are you jilted that you didn't get an interesting role or something? Apparently, FakeGod's already used my role in another game and you'll see strange roles are pretty much expected based on his other Alice and VisCon setups.

[Brian Skies]

I mean, that seems kind of obvious, though. The possibilities have always been that he either used it once because he either couldn't or didn't want to use it again (which is understandable since a link would have been drawn eventually) or that he never used it to begin with (which imo would actually be the smarter option - tbh if I were scum with noddy I would have told him to either not use it til later in the game if necessary or claim it as negative utility D1 and have town direct it for maximum town cred)

I'm disappointed by your lack of creativity (and I guess mostly Notty's since he's the one who actually had the role). He could have always held onto it and vanillarized NK targets like Grapes. Also, setting himself as a negative utility power role would have put him in a counterclaim scenario with our roleblocker, although it can be argued that he wouldn't have had that knowledge had he chosen to do so.

I don't really get why they used it n1 on a d5 role and then never again either

He probably vanillarized me because I was blatantly claiming a D5 power role and then chickened out after I started telling everyone I was vanillarized and that there was no way the vanillarizer was town. So if I were him, I'd avoid doing anything that would potentially out me as the vanillarizer, which goes back towards vanillarizing NK targets (which is a pretty moot point by now anyway).

Which was part of the reason I was paranoid about Brian earlier in the game

You were? I must have missed this.

well, presumably cupcake would have got a negative result if he investigated brian (except N1), which doesn't say much at all if the neighbourhood ability only lasted a single night like brian claims

I don't know how his role is supposed to work as far as my neighborhood is concerned. But my neighborhood does indeed have a name (although I'm not sure if the N1 part is supposed to be included in the official title). And if anything was out of place as far as my claimed neighborhood is concerned, Cupcake had all of Day 3, 4, and 5 to say something. I want to say it's the same thing as the way we're treating Nacho, except we have no idea who Cupcake checked each night.

[Brian Skies]

@mod: would neighborhood cop check if the target ever had a neighborhood?

It only checks at the moment.

How inelegant.

[Brian Skies]

Ok brian, do you still have access to the neighborhood pt?

If I didn't still have access to neighborhood QT, how could I answer the previous questions regarding my neighborhood?

Spoiler:

what did you guys talk about in the neighborhood?

MelancholyMath

: The gif I posted was actually a crumb.

MelancholyMath

: I had a neighborizor in Corpse party and wanted to go the subtle route here.

Brian

: Is there anything about your role I should know about?

Brian

: Sorry for the late response. I wasn't expecting to be neighborized. I wasn't lying about my role.

Brian

: Well, I lied about part of it, but I retracted it. Why neighborize me over someone else? Not sure what you mean by crumb and your role deviates from what I expect from the setup, but it is a FakeGod setup. I think Toothy, Bork, and Mac are town but will have to look through the game again. How do you feel about Nacho scumreading you?

Brian

: Are you going to be available later or just blame me for wasting half the time we had to talk to each other?

MelancholyMath

: No? I'll explain more about my crumb later. I initally planned on targeting Sakura before she replaced out. I think I want to look at the Nati wagon because scum may have powerbussed her.

Brian

: Is your action a day action? I was targeted by another day action and was wondering if it was part of your role.

Some flavor stuff

.

MelancholyMath

: I'm just a neighborizor. I'm going to look at the people who didn't have much reasoning to be on the Nati wagon.

Some waffling on Nacho and how Nacho is reading him.

Brian

: Okay, I asked because I'm a D* Unlynchable Townie and was vanillarized. Still not a fan of Farside or TTH.

Brian

: I think Nacho may have been crumbing a town role early on.

MelancholyMath

: Farside feels like she did in Survivor. Agree on TTH. Overwhelmed on the softclaims.

Brian

: I don't think Oversoul is scummy considering he had a late replace in. Farside is more of a PoE read, and I do think her demeanor might point towards town.

MelancholyMath

: Oversoul is more not town rather than scummy for me.

Dreamworld N1

Well, it's probably just Dreamworld since that's the pretty title FakeGod gave it in the thread under the image he provided and everything. But the thread is titled Dreamworld N1.

*The title is above the image.

It also said we'd be the only players with access to the thread.

also brian, would you also mind unvoting me for a bit?

UNVOTE: Gaiden

[Brian Skies]

indeed. the idea of asking your scum buddy to either legitimately target you or claim to have targeted you is something i might do as scum, and part of why i thought it was rather convenient that

he chose to vanillarise a n5 role n1 when that's clearly suboptimal play

While looking for a way to clear a partner is something I

would

do (see Viscon: Crossroads), finding a way to clear myself isn't. I also made a pretty big deal about the bolded after I was vanillarized and it's why I was so adamant about it being a scum role.

[Brian Skies]

eh. can't find anything about any of cupcake's targets in his ISO

I've already looked a few times since he died. I don't think he crumbed or softed anything and it's possible he thought his role wasn't that important. But he thought I was town, so maybe?

[Brian Skies]

presumably if brian was checked it woulda been the night no kill occurred (the only thing cupcake did the next day is vote mac)

Why not Night 2 or 3?

[Brian Skies]

Oh right, Notty claimed and flipped neighborizer.

[Brian Skies]

I'm a claimed 'vanillarized', not a claimed 'vanilla', thank you very much. And I'm still bitter about it.

[Brian Skies]

i doubt he put people in his town list because he investigated them

I don't think a rational Cupcake (at least by his standards) would have considered his role to be that useful at least until Notty claimed to have neighborized me (confirmable action).

[Brian Skies]

He could have always held onto it and vanillarized NK targets like Grapes

that is what i meant when i said holding onto it until later in the game, yes

I actually meant that he just vanillarizes people everyday and then kills those people.

He also claimed to be a full neighborizer to me, so I don't know why he was playing like an X-Shot.

[Brian Skies]

While looking for a way to clear a partner is something I would do (see Viscon: Crossroads), finding a way to clear myself isn't.

what

What about it don't you understand?

[Brian Skies]

Anything? You're willing to gambit to false confirm your partners but not yourself? How the hell does that make sense?

To put it in simplest terms, my scum game is just a weak and lazy imitation of my town game. I'd never go out of my way to clear myself as town because I don't think there's a need to, so there's no reason for me to do it as scum. I also don't consider myself an easy early lynch as either alignment unless I'm just playing really poorly. I also don't think clearing myself early on as scum is a beneficial thing to do as it would make people question why I'm still alive if I make it to the end game.

In all of my scum games, my partners have been problematic and I've had to restrain myself from powerbussing them. I prefer to win as quickly as possible since people like to just lynch me in mylo or lylo regardless of my alignment, so keeping at least one other partner alive with me is ideal for me.

There's more to it, but I don't feel like explaining everything about my play.

[Brian Skies]

Well, in that case, i think that brian is probably the best option for a lynch.

i mean, if we are dealing with a 3 person scum team, then he is the only person who could have done both the double kill and the kill last night.

From

your

perspective, I'm probably the best option for a lynch. But when you told me to unvote you because you thought it would lead to something, I was expecting more than just "oh, I think this points towards Brian town," "oh, you disagree with me? I guess he's the best lynch" because nothing you've said makes me likelier to be scum than before and actually gives the others an extra small sliver of a reason to believe I could be town here. You're also someone who could have been capable of making both the double kill and the kill last night and there isn't anything to point towards a town you other than Sakura townreading you on Day 1, which in all honesty, could just be her misreading you. So while you've managed to stall and continue the paranoia on whether I could be town, nothing you've said actually makes you a worse lynch than me.

If no one has anything else to say regarding who we should lynch today, then I'm ready to move on.

VOTE: Gaiden

[Brian Skies]

So you don't clear yourself because it makes you more suspicious late game but you tend to get lynched late game anyways so...?

So why do something that will make it more difficult for me to win later on if I think I can make it to the end game anyway?

Why couldn't you have been setting up notscience for a fake clear as opposed to notscience setting you up for the fake clear? He was fighting back his wagon pretty effectively, and he probably wouldn't have gotten lynched for a while without the farside investigation.

This is more believable for Brian-scum, but that means we coordinated either pregame or telepathically because Red Gyarados transcends the boundaries of life itself (or rather there's no daytalk this game).

I was expecting more than just "oh, I think this points towards Brian town," "oh, you disagree with me? I guess he's the best lynch"

why does Gaiden-scum even explore the Brian-town option?

I'll answer your question with a better question: When faced with imminent death, why does Gaiden-town only explore Brian's alignment when the evidence he's presenting us suggests that Brian's town? Less condescendingly:

Either to look more townish, try to buddy me, or hope someone else can take that information and do something stupid enough that he doesn't get lynched today.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Gaiden

[Brian Skies]

muffin, you gotta follow me. if you need some convincing, read some of brian's posts from yesterday.

This has been pretty obviously and transparently my town game, so I'd love to hear what about yesterday (or in this game for that matter) makes me obvious scum.

@Muffin, Oversoul: If the game's going to end up being between Gaiden and myself anyway, then I agree with Gaiden that you should just take advantage of the extra voice instead of leaving it on one person's shoulders. I also think you two should actually try to read me instead of just looking for excuses to doubt that I'm town, which is what several players in this game have been doing, both of you included. It's also pretty aggravating that I rolled a day specific unlynchable roll and baited a scum vanillarize and you're still considering that I'm crafty enough to plan this as scum even though you think I'm too stupid to kill a roleblocker the night after he claimed. And Muffin, don't you dare fuck me over after Nacho and Oversoul made this game into another bullshit Saki Mafia situation.

Anyhow, if either of you have any questions for me, I'll gladly answer them. But I don't have anything to say other than Gaiden's pretty obviously PoE scum and you're just looking for reasons to throw the game away.

[Brian Skies]

muffin, you gotta follow me. if you need some convincing, read some of brian's posts from yesterday.

You're the one who made this statement. You're more than welcome to back it up.

[Brian Skies]

man, i always love to hear the "look, other guy is scum cause i am TRANSPARENTLY TOWN" argument

Also, while I

am

transparently town, you're scum because PoE.

[Brian Skies]

Yeah, but I've been vanillarized by the vanillarizing neighborizor we know exists. You have...a Sakura townread.

Still waiting on those posts that make me scum.

[Brian Skies]

And Muffin, don't you dare fuck me over after Nacho and Oversoul made this game into another bullshit Saki Mafia situation.

What did I do?

I got y'all Natirasha. Just sucks that the scum had a back up.

You weren't in the game, but in Saki Mafia, Muffin and I tried to get scum lynched and ended up having to lynch Gaiden instead because we couldn't get another player to vote scum in time. The missed lynch put us directly in Mylo the next day and we eventually lost because Desp got paranoid of my slot for pretty much no reason at 3p Lylo even though the three of our slots had the scumteam figured out previously.

You and Nacho could have lynched both Gaiden and myself (a Gaiden lynch would probably have just ended the game unless we're wrong about Muffin here), so I'm pretty peeved that instead of getting a near confirmed win, I get to see if I get fucked over again. It's pretty aggravating putting in effort and being pretty transparently town and still getting mislynched in mylo/lylo game after game when there's really no reason for me to get lynched (see Tales of You for example when Notty/I hard CC'ed scum outside of Mylo/Lylo and we got mislynched in Mylo/Lylo anyway because town was too busy derping around at the end instead of working with each other).

I couldn't give a shit whether or not you think you got us a scumlynch or whatever since this isn't even about lynching you anymore.

[Brian Skies]

Why not just lynch today?

[Brian Skies]

All a no lynch does at this point is stall the game out.

[Brian Skies]

I'd prefer the game not last longer than it needs to be. And you're just running away like a coward right now. So what happens if Muffin dies tonight and it's just you, Gaiden, and myself? You flip a coin and regret not having another person's opinion?

[Brian Skies]

Still waiting on those posts that make me scum.

[Brian Skies]

sigh. the most telling one that was just wrong is the post that said "I unvoted Gaiden cause i thought he could conftown me, but since he can't, i'mma vote him again"
then nacho grew suspicious of you. and now he's dead.

I unvoted you because you asked me to and I was interested to see where it would go (and it's not the game would have exploded in any way had I not just left my vote there). I voted you again because you're still PoE scum. My response about you 'conftowning me' was in response to Nacho because it doesn't make any sense for you to do as town as that just pigeonholes you into being lynched and I can only see you going that route if you were trying to avoid lynching me that day. There's an inherent dissonance in your logic at that point because if you thought something would point towards me being town, I'd expect you to want to go another direction for a lynch and explore the alignment of another player, which you never did.

[Brian Skies]

Scum no killed just like they did when Mac got lynched.

[Brian Skies]

Because scum is a definite term and even though you're the only person I think could be scum, you haven't flipped yet and there's the possibility I could be wrong.

[Brian Skies]

With the exception of Muffin being something like a scum PGO. But I've generally had a townread on him throughout this game and I'm not sure FakeGod puts two killing roles like that in the same setup. I'm also giving Grapes the benefit of the doubt that he roleblocked who he said he would instead of trying to be sneaky like blocking me again.

[Brian Skies]

Not really considering 1) he never roleblocked you and 2) scum no killed twice. He was effectively useless, especially since scum knew who he was roleblocking considering he was expected to claim his target beforehand.

[Brian Skies]

Eg asking noddy to vote him on p6 to confirm gif scum which, apart from making no sense, felt oddly forced

You mean where Gif and I were talking about the same superficial scumtell (as in scum being the third person on a wagon; it's also not the first time we've danced around stuff you can find on the wiki)?

which wouldn't be that strange except for the fact that he had a lot more to say about others in the game at the time

As opposed to the handful of players I mentioned with as few words in the same post (and the same paragraph apparently)? And it was a post I threw out there because I wasn't around and felt like contributing.

(a) noddy chose to vanillarise him (and why N1 when he clearly wasn't an immediate threat via claim, if a threat at all)

I don't have a response to this because it doesn't make any sense to me either.

(b) that Brian's read progression on noddy is believable

I'd respond to this, but I don't know what the issue is.

i'm not sure i would have assumed fakegod the vanillarise was related to the neighbourise

I actually considered it and it's why I asked Notty if his role had a side effect. But he told me there wasn't one and he told me he was just a neighborizer. I thought his night actions would be able to indicate if it was related to his role (and it's not like other players were claiming to be vanillarized or neighborized or anything). For the most part, I was assuming being targeted by both night actions were a coincidence because Notty and I hydra together (the neighborize) and I was blatantly claiming a power role (the vanillarize).

[Brian Skies]

hey brian, you around?
i has question, when did you learn you were vanillaized?

I wasn't going to answer this because many of the answers to the questions you've been asking me can be found in my iso, but considering you're not reading my posts and committing yourself to asking these redundant questions, I guess I'll just oblige you with a response.

I learned I was vanillarized about midway through Night 1. I often check the site without logging in and I wasn't expecting anything like being neighborized during the night phase. However, both notifications of me being vanillarized and neighborized were sent to me immediately after FakeGod closed the thread for the start of Night 1. They were sent to me as different PM's, and I'm assuming it's because FakeGod wanted to keep the two actions separated for whatever reason. There were also some PM's about Ceph replacing Bork, but after rereading the Dreamworld topic, I'm not sure Bork's replacement even sunk in for me at the time and I may have been mostly focused on the sudden realization of being vanillarized and neighborized.

[Brian Skies]

i was more talking about the fact that you asked noddy specifically

I thought he was around because I saw him post earlier. I could have asked Sakura except she was already voting me.

well yeah, but i thought you'd have more to say about noddy given you have more history with him than others

Spoiler:

also was kind of hoping you'd have a stronger opinion on noddy than the one you have

I think he's town. I think he's consistently shown flashes of his town game here, but I'm keeping an eye on him because he almost snowed me in the last game we played together. I'm also not a fan of the people that have been pushing his wagon ([Delectable Pastry Impersonator], Kagami, Grapes, maybe Nacho who I still think might be town). Should I be shooting some fireworks or warning flares or something?

Yes, I was going to explain to some great lengths as to why I thought he was town, but the more I think about it and write it out, it's a pretty soft read and I don't have anything concrete to back it up. I'm mostly skeptical of the people pushing him (and by people I mean you) and I share in his distrust of the TTH slot. As far as being able to fake reads goes, I think it's something he's capable of doing as scum, I just thought some of his observations and the way he's been carrying himself could be more indicative of town Notty.

Your response to Mac here does make me feel better about you though and I agree that scum Notty doesn't deal very well with pressure. It's something I'm keeping note of as the game goes along because I know scum Notty will struggle to keep up. But it's one of those things where I know you're expecting him to do certain things and I feel it's possible he's just being patient like he was in Advance Wars.

which reminds me, the way you started the paragraph you mentioned both noddy and nati, "oh, who else is in this game?" was part of what stuck out to me

Not to channel my inner Mollie or anything, but I find it interesting that both of the flipped scum ended up being players I thought were fading into the background for me early on. Guess who else was in that group for me?

ideally i would want this day phase decided with you two going head to head in an epic rap battle that will be remembered for years to come

but failing that, i will do some reading and listen to whatever cases either of you wants to put forward on the other

I'm not in a position to convince you with...those particular items of value. So I guess I'll have to consider going the other route you just provided us.

[Brian Skies]

that Salamence wagon would be entirely town on town

I'm not taking any responsibility for the Sala lynch because I only compromised after people consistently refused to lynch TTH

(she wasn't scum, but neither was Sala, and I still think the Cho slot was actually scummy and I have no idea why people wanted to lynch Sala/Sakura so badly when Cho's replace out was flat out horrible)

.

It's not exactly helping things when it looks like neither of you really give a shit about this game anymore though

My inner Brian hates Oversoul and Nacho and wants them to lose, but my inner Mollie keeps telling me the real Muffin doesn't deserve to be punished for other people not knowing what a deadline is

(again)

.

Tbh though pretending to have been vanillarised is exactly the kind of thing id have done as scum this game

I'm a popular late game mislynch. I don't need to rely on your petty tricks.

And I'm still wondering why any scum team would have perceived a claimed d5 role as a threat this game

I think the problem is you're assuming it was a decision made by a scumteam in a game with no daytalk instead of just Notty making a suboptimal decision on how to use his day activated ability.

Heh... It would be a pretty fitting end for this game if we lost because the timer for this day phase ran out with whichever of you is town not voting

See inner Mollie comment above.

I'm still feeling rather indignant right now.