SAGA FRONTIER MAFIA (GAME END)

[The Cool Cucumbers]

So. Umm. We have 2 occurrences of permanent hating happening, or had two last night....one died...and we have one today..and we have someone who has claimed that their ability causes permanent hated modifiers, but also claims they haven't been usng their power.

Is skybird scum, or does scum have two people who can give hated modifiers AND town has one?

....

I need to read skybirds iso.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Hmm Skybird ISO read. She totally claimed the whole permanent hated thing yesterday. Like twice. And nobody even cared while people were freaking out about getting many hated modifiers piled on individuals...

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Hmm. I'm really confused about why nobody cares about her permanent hated power yesterdsy. I didn't even notice it, I mean I rememberd reading it when I read her iso now, but it wasn't even a blip when I read it the first time.

I'm not especially fond of either the skybird or the zulfy slots. There were some interesting interactions with GWS and MP as well in Skybirds iso..nothing major, but it was interesting that she did interact with those particular slots rather early in the day, and seemed to maintain a town sentiment towards them throughout.

I need to check in with wgeurts and see if he had any particular points in mind about skybird that made her a lynch prospect for today, he's put a shitload more time into rereading than I have and might have some more insight.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Yeah, I thought that too, but no. She claimed it was cumulative, and gave the specific example of targeting the same person 3 nights in a row, they'd take 3 less votes to lynch, and just now she specified that her power permanently reduces her targets lynch threshold, which is why she hasn't been using it.

But it has been getting usee....

Skybird, what is your power called?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Yep. The liza claim does indeed change everything. :/

Fluminator, I noticed that too...but is she that bad? She said it was permanent like twice yesterday , then said it was the same as pips, then said it was permanent again a bit ago. That's like...multpile slips.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Hmm. Yeah. Bleh. Could also just he lazy town phrasing. Not the most damning of slips if it is one, but nithng else about her looks great eirher.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

What do youbmean the context is significanf? She outright said the only thing that is different is the middle paragraph, ehich is not the ome about her RB/hated thing.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Cuz the hatred is temporary

But wasn't skybird permanent?
And didn't she hit Zulfy last night?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Something is not adding up.
Who did Skybird target last night?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

UNVOTE:
Going to make that post on lowkey I promised for R&L and then take a look at Flum/Skybird again.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

She's been claiming to not target anyone to my knowledge.

Well that's obviously crumpets, how many hated-inventors can we have?
And no I don't believe in the flying hated sharks ablaze with machine guns theory.
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Sensei, up for a double-lynch today?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Zulfy/Skybird
Maybe DGB or Flum instead of Zulfy?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Maybe I can convince you, but I've already jinxed me making cases on people makes them suddenly conf-town.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Wgeurts: Itlepip claimed to have targeted zulfy, zulfy has confirmed they are temporarily hated. Skybird has claimed to have never used their ability, and that it is permanent.

We had two people become permanently hated yesterday. We lynched a source of the permanent hatred, and now we have only one person who became permanently hated last night, but the only known potential source says they did not do it. Not now, and not yesterday.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

And yes, zulfy was roleblocked and there was no nk, buf zzzx was also roleblocked, and who knows what protectives we have floating around or other crap people haven't claimed yet that may have contributed to it.

It's not unreasonable that a hated power could be town and compulsive, but why wouldn't skybird just say so as town? Unless you're suggesting that there were 3, one scum, one compulsive, and one town that hasn't been used.

-Cerb

Pedit: zzzx claimed he was roleblocked last night when he attempted to track dgb, and that he is now permanently hated.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Yes. But one is from itlepip and is temporary.

Let's break this down.

Itlepip could roleblock someone and make them temporarily hated. He targeted DS N1, and Zulfy N2. DS was ascetic, and Zulfy claims they are now hated temporarily.

GWS and skybird can roleblock+permanent hate. Skybird claims they never used their power. Yesterday R&L and Yosarian were permanently hated, one of them likely by GWS. We lynched GWS. Today ZZZX claims he was roleblocked and is now permanently hated.

The key here is that the permanent hated modifiers have never been claimed, except by Skybird, who claims to have never used it in spite of people getting permanently hated all around her. The temporary have all been claimed, and confirmed by the one target who is currently alive and was targeted last night.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Zulfy was 100% going to be lynched today. There's almost no way it wasn't going to happen. Given that situation, it's not impossible that scum!zulfy decided to go for a hail mary and hope there was no counterclaim possible.

Not probable, but keep it in mind.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Skybird. We have mod confirmation that itlepips power only made the targets temporarily hated. Go read his flip yourself. His power does not function the way yours does. If it has the same name and functions differently, that's..unexpected, to say the least, considering we've already seen a name for a power that perfectly matches what you claim your ability is. You targeting whoever we want doesn't matter, all it will do is prove it's a permanent modifier. If you were claiming it were temporary and we wanted you to prove that, that would be differenr.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

FA, I'm not cerb so don't start yelling about how I'm a prick that hasn't done anything townie etc. etc.

You said this game that Varsoon explicitly said both characters are not guaranteed to be in the game, therefore it's possible there is

no town lisa

. This means that it is potentially possible for this to have happened:
A) Lisa is a scum fake-claim, would mean there should be a role-cop in town's hands in the setup otherwise your role is functionally useless.
B) Zulfy read that you not both of your player's are guaranteed to actually be in the game and pulled off a gambit. He claims Lisa; now if Lisa doesn't exists woopteedoo he is now deemed confirmed town. Why would he pull such a risky gambit? Because his lynch today was inevitable.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Varsoon, I've only slipped 33 times
This is a good game for me being in a hydra.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Lowkey, DP, and TCC, I have a simple question for you. If you answer correctly, I reached a hasty conclusion. If you answer incorrectly, it will justify what I think is a slip.

What do you think Sensei's abilities are?

Double slash (the double vote)
Whatever the double vote everyone ability is called.

That's all I had any inkling of before today.

Given Zulfys claim, I'm thinking he might also have access to other sword powers as well potentially.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Can we not do that thing where we speculate about what my role is anymore please?

Sure. Just answering ABR's question.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

ok thats it

after a talk about both Fire voted people in last days were obviously town we had a fire vote on cucum

cucm is scum

I'm definitely calling it

VOTE: Cool Cucumbers

they have so many posts - as much as us - yet they have no strong read in game. Cerb delay in his reads and not responding to them are just basically a scum tell. Wagurats way of sorting the double lynch in day 1 on a town and a scum lynchless who got activated with the lynch is a scum tell. the way they were attaching themselves to DP in day 2 to prevent a gale lynch without pushing it themselves is a scum tell. the way they attacked DP and Zulfy today after they claims are a scum tell. the way cerb stated that he want to ignore me after started scumreading me is a scum tell

this is it. lest lynch an obv scum.

pedit : I'm completly on with a DGB - Cucm double lynch

~Rylai

"Have no strong read in game" - has given a read on everyone in-game.
"Cerb delaying" - Cerb is basically VLA right now, would you like me to dump all the skype logs with him to show he is trying to do something?
"the way they were attaching themselves to DP in day 2 to prevent a gale lynch without pushing it themselves is a scum tell" - We placed the L-1 vote and said we are willing to vote but I just want to finish catching-up, we never defended GWS once.
"the way they attacked DP and Zulfy today after they claims are a scum tell. the way cerb stated that he want to ignore me after started scumreading me is a scum tell" - Me and Cerb don't fully buy his claim; that's correct and if you can't think of any cercimstance where town is suspicious you need to try again. Cerb is also

NOT

scum-reading you and has you as town. He however is ignoring you as your way of reasoning clashes so badly with his that mountains of crap are raised every time you two meet.
FA, you are better than this.
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

It might be DGB

that explains the fire vote delay as well

anyway Cucum is definitely scum at this point. I'm sure they would have voted between themselves today

~Rylai

We were voting Zulfy, then he did that thing which means that lynching him isn't a good idea right now.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

How the heck does Zulfy know that DGB is a VT?
Also, ABR.
Very early on in the game while looking for associative tells to use later I wondered whether you and DGB are masons due to how you insist on each other's towniness without any further explanation. Usually voicing these suspicions is a bad idea, so I've refrained from asking until now. But seeing how DGB is likely a viable lynch option and there's no need to waste time; are you? Is this how you know she is town?
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

How do you know she is town?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I hadn't considered your ability at all to be honest.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

"Is he the only one happy around here?"

-Asellus,

discussing Rastaban, Chateau Auguille

VOTECOUNT 3.04

Skybird (4):

Albert B. Rampage, Fluminator, Sensei, Zulfy

Zulfy (3):

Klingoncelt, BIT, Skybird

Albert B. Rampage (1):

FIRE

Yosarian2 (1):

FIRE

ZZZX (1):

DrippingGoofball

The Cool Cucumbers (1):

FIRE

Not Voting (7):

Rylai and Lina, Lowkey, ZZZX, Drixx, Yosarian2, The Cool Cucumbers, Drunken Pirates

With 14 Alive, it takes 8 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-02-18 23:10:00)

The Main Character is

Sensei

The Party is

Albert B. Rampage, Yosarian2, Rylai & Lina, and Drixx.

Spoiler: MC VC

Yosarian2 (3):

Yosarian2, Rylai & Lina, Skybird

Sensei (2):

Drunken Pirates, The Cool Cucumbers

Fluminator (1):

Zulfy

Drixx (1):

Klingoncelt

Albert B. Rampage (1):

Albert B. Rampage

Lowkey has been prodded.

10 days guys. Can someone explain to me why we went from 1 vote(which was placed by something you all fucking thought was a scum power until recently, and then suddenly fucking changed your mind on or decided if it was a scum power, maybe scum are using it to distance themselves, or something like that, it was an R&L post that suggested this for some reason and they don't make sense to me) to 6 on these few pages while I've been not posting so i don't get into a shouting match with R&L?

None of the reasons for voting given by any of you are actually good ones, especially when we're in a game with fucking dgb and flum and sky and klingon. Nothing any of you have noted are actually fucking scummy things, at the WORST they're playstyle conflicts.

DP: Seriously? "Oh yes, I'm just going to hop onto this wagon and express doubt about it and put them at L-2 in a game with double voting mechanics for no actual reason." You keep asking people for their fucking reads on us, and keep saying stuff like "yeah, gogurts seems town, but cerby is pinging me" and NEVER SAYING WHAT IS PINGING YOU and then other people articulate (bad) reasons for voting us, and you suddenly just decide it's sufficient cause to lynch us over all the no content useless slots in the game?

*sigh* Give me a minute. Let me address all of the dumb (in my opinion) points made in the sequence of votes that have happened recently, and then I'll go actually reread some peoples shit and give you firm reads, starting with the ones who haven't been doing anything. I'd appreciate if nobody hammered before I at least get my thoughts out, but whatever. When votes like DP's occur it gives me little hope that anyone's going to bother actually reading what I have to say.

-Cerb

pedit: yeah, I know ABR. I'm pinging wgeurts and just waiting for him to tell me to go ahead and claim, I really don't like doing stuff like that(ya know, potentially massively game altering things) without actually hearing from my partner.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Actually, before I start doing anything, I want to ask your opinion ABR/Drixx: Should I spend the time responding to what Sensei/R&L/Yosarian have said about us?
-Cerb

pedit: DP: Umm. Okay. So...you're telling me I shouldn't respond to anything? I'm confused by why you're telling me to stfu if I'm town and wise. :-/

[The Cool Cucumbers]

DP, seriously, if you want me to just stfu and not bother with defending myself or trying to engage in the game to prevent a dumb mislynch, please tell me so you can save me the hours of my life I'm going to spend on this. Last time a stupid wagon was driven on me I spent hours defending myself and got fucking lolhammered, and I have no desire to repeat that performance, my time is far too valuable to me. Anyways, I'm going to respond to yosarian and Sensei, gonna leave R&L the hell alone for the sake of everyone involved in this game, and then I'll spend the rest of the evening isoing and reading shit for you people.

(I especially like how I even said I wasn't going to have any free time until today, and everyone decides that today is the best time to just pile on and force me to spend what free time I have on this.)

-Cerb

Flum: Seriously? Why am I scum now? You've been saying stuff all game long that ensures when the opportunity came to lynch us, you'd be well justified in a vote, so this isn't surprising, but I'm very interested in knowing why the last two posts on me somehow solidified your read.

ABR: I'm not going to waste my time doing that when I'm at l-2 with 2 votes coming from unsubstantiated sheeps, 1 coming from a fucking unclaimed power, and someone showing up who hasn't voted who just decided he should voice his support, putting me at effectively L-1.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Lol, if you can get the town to promise to not fucking hammer me before I'm done, it's not a waste of time, but I'm feeling like I'm going to be in the middle of rereading etc and we're just going to get lolhammered, seriously.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

"Is he the only one happy around here?"

-Asellus,

discussing Rastaban, Chateau Auguille

VOTECOUNT 3.04

Skybird (4):

Albert B. Rampage, Fluminator, Sensei, Zulfy

Zulfy (3):

Klingoncelt, BIT, Skybird

Albert B. Rampage (1):

FIRE

Yosarian2 (1):

FIRE

ZZZX (1):

DrippingGoofball

The Cool Cucumbers (1):

FIRE

Not Voting (7):

Rylai and Lina, Lowkey, ZZZX, Drixx, Yosarian2, The Cool Cucumbers, Drunken Pirates

With 14 Alive, it takes 8 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-02-18 23:10:00)

The Main Character is

Sensei

The Party is

Albert B. Rampage, Yosarian2, Rylai & Lina, and Drixx.

Spoiler: MC VC

Yosarian2 (3):

Yosarian2, Rylai & Lina, Skybird

Sensei (2):

Drunken Pirates, The Cool Cucumbers

Fluminator (1):

Zulfy

Drixx (1):

Klingoncelt

Albert B. Rampage (1):

Albert B. Rampage

Lowkey has been prodded.

10 days guys. Can someone explain to me why we went from 1 vote(which was placed by something you all fucking thought was a scum power until recently, and then suddenly fucking changed your mind on or decided if it was a scum power, maybe scum are using it to distance themselves, or something like that, it was an R&L post that suggested this for some reason and they don't make sense to me) to 6 on these few pages while I've been not posting so i don't get into a shouting match with R&L?

None of the reasons for voting given by any of you are actually good ones, especially when we're in a game with fucking dgb and flum and sky and klingon. Nothing any of you have noted are actually fucking scummy things, at the WORST they're playstyle conflicts.

DP: Seriously? "Oh yes, I'm just going to hop onto this wagon and express doubt about it and put them at L-2 in a game with double voting mechanics for no actual reason." You keep asking people for their fucking reads on us, and keep saying stuff like "yeah, gogurts seems town, but cerby is pinging me" and NEVER SAYING WHAT IS PINGING YOU and then other people articulate (bad) reasons for voting us, and you suddenly just decide it's sufficient cause to lynch us over all the no content useless slots in the game?

*sigh* Give me a minute. Let me address all of the dumb (in my opinion) points made in the sequence of votes that have happened recently, and then I'll go actually reread some peoples shit and give you firm reads, starting with the ones who haven't been doing anything. I'd appreciate if nobody hammered before I at least get my thoughts out, but whatever. When votes like DP's occur it gives me little hope that anyone's going to bother actually reading what I have to say.

-Cerb

pedit: yeah, I know ABR. I'm pinging wgeurts and just waiting for him to tell me to go ahead and claim, I really don't like doing stuff like that(ya know, potentially massively game altering things) without actually hearing from my partner.

Looking at this without meta, this post is still a scum flail.
And comparing this with how town you handles pressure it's completely different.
The bold part seems particularly flaily and not genuine. If you actually think they've been doing scummy stuff you'd be mentioning it before this point.

If it makes you feel better, I still find wgeurts more scummy than you.

That's the thing though man, I don't think they've been doing scummy stuff, but I do think they've been doing more *nothing* than we've been doing, and the push is on the basis of either us not scumhunting, or not scumhunting "genuinely". It's ridiculous to go after us for that reason and *not* be going after those other slots I mentioned. Does that make sense flum?

Anyways, yeah, you're right, I'm more concerned with this than I normally am. It's a combination of lost confidence given the fact that I was just mislynched for the first time ever in another game, in spite of spending like 3-4 hours working on defending myself I got lolhammered because mastin couldn't be bothered to read the vote mechanics and accidentally double voted me and hammered us, and the fact that I just woke up from a nap and discovered that no, I won't be spending the evening playing a bit of mafia and doing chores. I'll be spending the evening playing a lot of mafia and probably dying anyways.

Anyways, if i'm not at a virtual L-1, cool. I'll shelve responding to Senseis post, other than to say: Go check the VC's, there's a clear point before I started organizing a double lynch where gale shifted from CD to MP, he was the last person to do so among those who started voting MP and got credit for doing it early. I'll deal with the other stuff you said later.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

cerby idc

I really don't.

I have decided I hate the mod confirmed role. not 1 person will listen to you and if you try to scumhunt pple go into a paralysis state of passive aggression.

you make your slot look scummy and I have been saying this since forever. I am unsure on you.

I guess idc.

Well wgeurts isn't here mollie. I was going to just leave all this to him because the way I don't seem to mesh with the playerlist here was making it seem like it would be dumb to keep responding to everything myself. i've even been like telling him points to make and shit so that way HE can say it instead of me, so i wouldn't end up in this position of having to hastily deal with all this.

Ugh. Anyways. I'm done responding to stuff said here for a bit, I'm gonna go iso and shit, give me a bit.

-Cerb

pedit: Lol. Here's the beginning of what I was going to say about Sensei's post.

The first quote you mentioned was a post by wgeurts. The other was a post by me. There's no contradiction there, there is him not realizing I had ever said anything about the slot. That's null, whatever. To answer your question though, just go read the vote counts, that's all I did. There is a clear point where in one VC Cooldog has more votes/is tied with Max, and then GWS switched over to Max. Both were a few votes off L-1, and it was before I started shouting about the double lynch thing, but it WAS after the double lynch was mentioned as a possibility.

The next quote, you say that me saying that I haven't read in depth, but seeing that one particular vote movement makes him seem unlikley to be scum, isn't a real thought.

How is that not a real thought? I was focusing all my time on (stupidly, really, because there was way too much to look at) seeing how votes flowed between all the wagons on D1, not isoing people, and then i was going to, based on that, decide who i'd prioritize in isoing. I hadn't read gales iso, but I did know he had done something which I viewed as unlikely to be done by scum. That's it.

Then you say I try to change the subject, BUT I DON'T. I say "This is the scenario which reconciles my concerns over the vote issue with everyones push on GWS. If this scenario exists, then the ADMITTELY WEAK POINT that he moved to vote MP and simultaneously relieved pressure on CD wouldn't have mattered because he could have been scum on a different team from MP.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I really think it would be wise to back off and give Cerberus some time. I would like people to unvote simply so nobody silences him and claims they didn't realize. We have a good amount of time and he shouldn't feel like he has to compromise his real life to dump hours into the game today, or else. That's just asinine, even if he rolled scum. Nobody deserves to be pushed like that, regardless of alignment, when the day phases are so long.

This is mostly an OOC post. This is the person behind the keyboard saying that not one of us would want to be put in a position of having to set aside our Real Life plans (especially on Super Bowl Sunday) or else get lynched. It's one thing if we're close to the deadline, but this isn't that. A little empathy and compassion for one another would go a long way toward making things so much more pleasant.

I'll get down off my soap box now.

Fuck have to respond to this.

<3. Thanks. I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter though, people demand answers and as we both know, people are stupid about voting discipline in this game and seem to feel that you can't actually pressure someone without having them at l-1, because people don't notice when others are suspicious of them and respond the same way to mass voiced suspicions as they would to the actual votes. /s

So yeah, I'm going to be looking at stuff for this game now instead of enjoying my life because I can't just trust that if I don't deal with stuff and I go to sleep we won't get hammered while i go to sleep under the pretense of "He's stalling! scum!"

-cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

That's the thing though man, I don't think they've been doing scummy stuff, but I do think they've been doing more *nothing* than we've been doing, and the push is on the basis of either us not scumhunting, or not scumhunting "genuinely". It's ridiculous to go after us for that reason and *not* be going after those other slots I mentioned. Does that make sense flum?
-Cerb

The cases against you aren't only the lack of scum hunting though.
And your complaint about the other four is still bad. For one, people are definitely going after Sky. People were going against Klingon much earlier than you but she's towned up. Saying I've been doing nothing is a load of crap. DGB is probably the only one you have a right to be offended by.

Fuck another.

Yeah, you're right, saying you've been doing nothing is a load of crap indeed. You 4 are basically the slots I'd be willing to lynch today, since zulfy is apparently also potentially conftown, so I just lumped you all in together. You've actually done stuff, yes. However, Klingon still hasn't done anything this game, even if she's "towned up"(which, I take to mean she started actually posting again), DGB thing is bullshit yes, and Sky thing is immaterial because guess what? In spite of all the expressed doubts etc., I'm the one at L-2 right now, not her, and part of the reason why I'm there is because I fucking started pushing her based on a mechanical contradiction in her claims, which led to the accusation that I'm wasting all my time on mechanics rather than actual scum hunting.

Alright. Going to go fucking iso, I don't fucking know who, I'm going to look at the playerlist and decide among those 4 and report back.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Flum, that was a general statement. Drixx and I were just mislynched in a hydra game because people are stupid about votes, and watched town accidentally hammer someone the next day too. This game is better, but people are bad in general.

And yes, we organized the double lynch, and if we hadn't, it wouldn't have happened, because people are bad at voting discipline.

Stop responding to things in ways that misinterpret what I'm saying it distracts me from actually getting anything done.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Fucking hell. I need to just not refresh the game until I have something to say about something productive.

Sensei, the double lynch had been MENTIONED, yes(I even say that in my post, don't i????), but people(like ABR, for example) were all like naw, it's not likely, herding cats, etc. etc, and it wasnt' until after I told people where to fucking vote to organize it that it seemed likely to actually happen.

And yes, I disappeared for the rest of the phase because I've been fucking busy, and wgeurts isn't me and thus can't follow up on thoughts I have that I haven't discussed with him. Oh, and then gale got lynched in a relatively quick fashion when we still had a buncha time left, so yeah, I wasn't prioritizing this game other than to keep current with it.

Also...you seriously 100% just don't fucking understand how I play. I can find someone scummy, but if I find a point of behavior that appears to be an unlikely line for scum to take, until I resolve that point, I'm not going to try to get that person lynched. Resolving that multi-ball prospect thing would have resolved the only thing that gave me reason to think gale might not be scum, so it was necessary that it be resolved before anything further occurred, barring further scummy ass posting by gale(which is what happened) or me suddenly having the time to properly analyze his verbose posts.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

That's L-1.

How fucking anti-town can you fucking people be? I seriously get talked by drixx into fucking proceeding with my RL plans and figuring I'll come back to this later after I calm down, and this happens?

-Cerb

Whatever. I'm going to finish watching B5 with Drixx, hopefully someone actually, ya know, unvotes so I'm not at L-1 so I can at least work without fucking worrying I'm wasting my fucking time.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I'm watching a fucking show you fucking assholes. Have some fucking respect for my life and fuck off.I'll be back as soon as this episode fucking ends, though let's be honest, the only claims made this game which haven't ended in a lynch of the claimant have been flavor claims that R&L has stated are conftown by their role. Give me fucking 20 minutes to finish this episode and I'll claim and fuck all of you.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Yes, it's B5 flum. Drixx insists I watch the show and so we're working through it, watching it in sync on TS with him and his wife. Tonight was supposed to be spent watching B5 after I did some housework.

-Cerb

Fuck off sensei. You're right, I could have, but there is more to say than just my role. You'll see why when I claim. I guarantee you will 100% autohammer me if I just fucking claim my role and flavor.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Okay, I'm back. Sorry wgeurts if claiming honestly gets us killed here.

We are Lord Orlouge, third party.

We win when all of the roles which started the game with access to a killing ability, whether factional or on their role card(so not techniques, though I do need to ask Varsoon whether or not someone having access to a killing *technique* on their role card counts. I wasn't really thinking about that particular nuance until Zulfy claimed to have all fist techniques) are removed from the game, either via stumping, lynch, kill, or any other means. So, we want to kill all the same people town does, but we also needed to remove town vigilantes. If the scum team+Sk are removed from the game before we stop all the vigs, we will be end-gamed. If all the vigs are gone when the scum team+sk are removed, we win along with town. Varsoon said he viewed us and DS' role(after DS flipped and we were freaking out about how close he was to being completely unkillable) as opposites. DS was unlynchable and untrackable and wanted to kill everyone and thus couldn't win with anyone, and we're unkilllable and want to stop all the killing without silencing anyone, and can win with the town.

We may stump one target per night. Our stump is not affected by bulletproof or regular protections.
We are bulletproof, unlimited. Strongman/adventuring party focused fire still kills us.

N1: We attempted to stump DP. Their claim of unlimited BP+unkillable later on made a strong smoke screen to ensure that if they were scum, their late game survival wouldn't be questioned in spite of the strength of the players in the slot, so we felt there was a good chance they might indeed be scum, and felt that even if they weren't, in the worst case scenario we were ensuring that the voices of two of the strongest players in this game wouldn't be silenced.

They did not get stumped. I assume we were roleblocked by MP, but I have no idea.

N2: We stumped itlepip(sorry pip). Shooting a SK doesn't make you town, his flip would, if scum, help to resolve skybird, and if he was town, we had to remove him at some point in order to win. That's the reason why I tried to encourage him to stay engaged in the game. Being turned into a "less than VT" sucks, but there's no reason why you can't engage in the game as much as a VT does and still help guide your team to victory.

Anyways, at this point it seems very unlikely that there are any town vigs left. Town has lost 3 multi-shot vigs, plus the game itself has additional vig granting powers? I mean, there might be, I guess, but it doesn't seem necessary as far as ensuring town has the means to guarantee bad MC's get killed if they want to kill them.

We are and have been playing the entire game fucking hunting scum. We need them to all die to win, period. There has been no point in this entire game where we *weren't* hunting for scum, because our fucking win con INCLUDES your own. We just get to lose if we don't handle our stuff before endgame. So yes, you can now leash our stumps and we can all win together and go dancing off into the sunset of Facinaturu. Or you can policy lynch us because that's what you do to 3p automatically. Up to you guys.

I'm not going to be doing massive reads stuff tonight at this point. The whole point of rushing to do that would have been to *not* have to claim and risk getting policy lynched. I figure no matter how much scumhunting I do or how successful I may be at this point, it all just comes down to whether or not the town wants to believe me or not, and then if they DO believe me, whether or not they'll just autolynch us. Nothing I can do about that, and I'm not going to let this interrupt my evening anymore than it already has when we have over 10 days left in the phase and I am MUCH less busy this week than I have been lately.

Oh, and I guess if you care about that kinda thing, wgeurts crumbed cop on D1 in some post where he said "Cut it out" and talked about how ABR was certainly going to be investigated that night, in an attempt to draw a scum NK to us. I haven't crumbed anything because I don't like crumbs.

I guess if you decide to leave us alive and let us catch scum zzzx can rolecop us to confirm what I've said to those who believe he's town at least.

-Cerb

pedit: meh, the dgb vote and such made me want to not claim, but whatever. We're going to have to claim at some point unless we lynch scum today and wgeurts and myself manage to shoot scum tonight as well. Oh, yeah, there are probably only 4 scum total, cause SK wants to kill everyone, and we actively wanted to ensure the death of 3 town slots, who are all dead now. 5 scum seems a bit much with two additional 3p kills.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

See. I told you. If I had just said Lord Orlouge, 3p. We stump people and are BP.

Autolynch. *shrug*

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh wait I was wrong.

wgeurts' crumb was saying "come on people" Lol. Cut it out doesn't even spell cop.

...

*sigh*

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Why'd you kill Pip. </3

I seriously wasn't even thinking about his neighborizing power at all. It was between you and him. You for the whole conspicuous unvote requested by scum+hammer(which yes, wgeurts gave you because he wasn't thinking, but yeah), or him because of the reasons I gave above. So, I mean, your neighborhood would have been broken up anyways.

-Cerb

pedit: yeah flum. That's why we weren't all over zulfy because of that particular because it was weak evidence. I even said earlier that the missing kill might be because of other reasons than just the claimed roleblocks. I don't know why scum would try to kill us though, we were relatively vulnerable and people were suspicious and all that stuff.

pedit x2: LOL. I am the lord of the mystics. I'm the ruler of the half of you that let's you gain powers, so yeah. Probably a super juicy soul. Like a 1x stump soul or some shit.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Yay policy voting. Awesome guys.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Actually, just curious: Is this policy kill 3p voting? Or is this you don't believe me voting? Mind clarifying which?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

fluminator, please don't. At least let me give actual thoughts because ya know, I want scum to lose.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

IT'S MY FUCKING WIN CON ABR!!

Lol.

Pip HAD to die at some point for our slot to win. Period.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Like, seriously man. How do you not understand that? It's what I spelled out? You're voting me because you don't believe me, which is bullshit. Voting me because you think 3p should die is fine, whatever. But doing it because you don't believe my claim is bs.

-Cerb

pedit: Ooh good question. I can ask Varsoon? I assumed we had to be alive at end game, but our win con literally says "We win when all killing roles have been removed from the game."

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Well, that's paraphrased. Also, umm, ABR and DP are being incredibly anti-town fyi all. DP has twice now sheeped the votes, just to lynch us because lolwhynot. Apparently? Without giving any thoughts about what we had to say.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

ABR is ya know, 99% town though, but I hate rushing lynches when there's clearly still conversation going on(especially when it's mine).

-Cerb

Sensei, wait? Let wgeurts give his thoughts etc?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Or at least let me find out if I should be trying this hard to not die?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I haven't heard from wgeurts all day unfortunately, it's like 6 a.m. for him or something so he should be around soon. Just. Bleh. If ABR or whoever wouldn't mind putting us a tiny bit further off death until he gets to show up? Also, if you're going to lynch us, you shouldn't waste the day on a forced mislynch. Consider the double lynch, or don't. Up to you guys.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

ABR: This is because you think I'm lying? Like, why man? I even asked Varsoon to give us a fake claim in case we just wanted to only claim BP since people like policy lynching 3p, and I didn't even use it(He gave us Virgil, the Time Lord). *sigh*

DP: Is this because you don't believe my claim, or because it's a policy lynch?

-Cerb

pedit: Mollie, what do you mean?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

WE HAD TO KILL EVERYONE WITH ACCESS TO A KILL.

Itlepip had access to a kill.
Spifflop had access to a kill
CD had access to a kill.

They were all gated, but their role cards gave them a killing ability. Our role had to remove all the killing from the world, period, and we get endgamed if any killing is left alive when the scum die. *shrug* I asked for the clarification because I wanted to know if we could win with the town or not.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I CAN'T STUMP SENSEI! HE'S FUCKING MC AND PROTECTED FROM US.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Seriously, the only fucking people in this game who have claimed BP and who thus need to be especially afraid of us, are the two people who just fucking voted us after we claimed. Do you not see this? ABR and DP are both BP claims. We can kill either of them regardless of their protections. They want us dead. ABR has lots of town cred. DP has way less, and this is super survivalistic, wrapped in policy lynch thi si sthe optimal play BS.
-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

NO. ASK THE MOD.

@VARSOON: IF A THEORETICAL STUMPING ABILITY EXISTS IN THE GAME, COULD IT BE USED TO STUMP THE CURRENTLY SELECTED MC?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Why would I do that ABR? Why would I stump the MC at lylo unless i thought they were scum?

I'm fucking built in insurance versus all the bullshit OP roles and such the game is capable of. Unless you take 3x dodge or are MC, you can't be safe. I stop a buncha broken interactions.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

That's such terrible reasoning. Again, are you just certain I'm lying? Is that what you're saying? Because I'm fucking not. Now you're telling me I just deserve to be lynched period, rather than the fucking scum who can't fucking help you win.

-Cerb

pedit: I told you why we tried to stump who we tried to stump. Is my point that DP's claim pefectly allows them to coast to endgame and explain away late game survival completely fucking invalid? How about the fact that if I were scum, I wouldn't want to MAKE TWO OF THE BEST FUCKING SCUM HUNTERS I'VE PLAYED WITH NEVER GO AWAY.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Well, the fact he's not self hammering and keeping the soul from me basically proves he's not a mafia and only third party for what it's worth.

Meh. I guess. I suppose the fact that you're not hammering me makes it slightly less likely that you're scum.

DP: Where the fuck are you? Answer me! Can't fucking blindly sheep ABR when he's fucking wrong and I told him why he was wrong. Give me a new fucking reason.
-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Do you see this? ABR is like, fucking manipulating flum into feeling pressured to hammer now.
-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Actually, I'm at at L-1 or L-2? I lost count. maybe he can't hammer right now and my paranoia is unjustified.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I'm L-1. I was L-3, and then ABR and DP voted. Alright. yeah.

ABR, seriously, unvote and let me to go tlseep and fucknig hear what the rest of the game has to say about this.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Fine. We don't need to stump anybody? Lol. It's not compulsive.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I've left nothing out. If I was going to partially claim, i would have just claimed BP. That's why I asked Varsoon for a fake claim, because the flavor of lord orlouge didn't make sense as just being a BP, he had to have some sort of hypnotizing chnaging power or something.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

KC: I'll ask you like I've asked everyone else: Do you not believe that we are legitimately third fucking party, or are you just policy lynching us because we're 3p?

oh, ABR: If Varsoon tells me that we can't win with town if we get lynched before end game, then that's something I may have left out, but it's not something I know right now. I need to get an answer from him.

-Cerb

pedit: Stumping R&L was our current plan for the night, after Zulfy's claim. It was actually our plan on N1, before they claimed the names. I figured we could stump them, and then they could hold the names in reserve to conftown the appropriate people whne the time came, instead of giving scum the opportunity to use them as fake claims, in the event they weren't scum.

pedit x2: Varsoon said he just thought we could just claim Lord Orlouge. I looked up flavor and was like mmmm that's like the main villain of the game I don't want to get autolynched for claiming to be the main villain of the game pleaes give me a fake claim.

pedit x3: BECAUSE OUR WIN CON IS REMOVE ALL KILLING ROLES AND HE HAD A KILLING ROLE. Regardless of whether he was scum or not, we HAD to remove him. At this point, I find it unlikely that there are any more killing roles, but ya know what, there may be? And ya know what else, if you don't tell us to stump them, we won't, because then we get auto lynched and potentially lose depending on what varsoon has to say.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I left wgeurts a message on skype when we were at l-2. He's in the netherlands. I have no control over him or way to contact him outside of skype and this site, so he'll show up when he does.

-Cerb

pedit: Well, he didn't give us one until I asked for it. probably because we're fucking 3p and he figured it didn't matter because he didn't intend for flavor to be alignment indicative.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

KC, are you around? Can you confirm that you're *not* going to hammer? Or at least engage with me about this please?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I know there are people who want you to tree stump DP. So there's also that to take into consideration. There is also the possibility of tree stumping Rylai so that we know if Zulfy and Sensei are really confirmed town or not. There are too many risks. I'm not sure it's a good idea to give you free reign to ruin the game if you choose to, if you're telling the truth about your role.

hey abr go back to voting cerby cos otherwise it looks like you are trying to get them to stump rylai and us!

It would look better for you if you unvoted us too, actually. Because it looks like you're just trying to force through our lynch so you don't need to worry about getting stumped.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

DP: Read what I said in my original post. We don't know what role you have. We know you claimed BP+unkillable at 10 players left alive. That was a suspicious claim, because it was unprompted, thereby ensuring you'd lose al town utility for your BP claim, AND because it explains away your survival into the late game, which would normally be something concerning to see.

We couldn't risk that you were actually scum and you would skate into the late game, and in the worse case where you were town, at least we'd guarantee we had fucking pirate mollie and titus finding scum for us till the end of the game.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Fade to Sepia. The End.
You are aligned with the Protagonists (town). You win when all threats to the Protagonists are eliminated and at least one Protagonist-aligned player is still alive, or nothing can prevent the same.

We win when all threats to us are eliminated. You are a threat. We need you eliminated.

We are not considered a threat. This is a thing I have friggin asked. You do not lose the game as a result of us surviving, that makes us not a threat. Obviously you have no reason to believe me, but seriously, all these things you're saying are thing I asked too because it was REALLY important. I would have fucking lied and just claimed town BP+stumping if my role didn't actually allow me to win with town.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also, does that mean you now consider my claim to be true, but we're getting into policy 3p lynch territory instead?

KC: I'm not a fucking survivor. I have a lot more fucking utility than just a survivor. You lynch neutral survivors because in lylo they can win with the scum. I CAN'T WIN WITH THE SCUM. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

And the scum probably can't get rid of me anymore without having access to the party or the top level sword skill. Why are you guys supporting the only way to remove what scum will clearly consider a massive fucking threat?

-Cerb

pedit: DP: Did you read my post about why we were going to stump you? (Hell, guys, the action didn't even happen. Why would we claim to have attempted to stump DP of all people? We could have claimed to have attempted to stump ANYONE in the game.)

[The Cool Cucumbers]

And why wait for just him?

This is actually a good question. I'm going ot say it's probably because he's part of the party and ABR wants to chat with him privately and get his input before deciding how to move forward, and because he's sure he's town. It would be nice if other people in the game heard what I had to say too though.

-Cerb

pedit: I'm only doomed because people don't fucking understand that two town controlled kills are better than one, and that an additional leashed vote+kill that can't be removed by scum is EVEN BETTER. They just blindly follow the SOP of lynching all 3p. It forces fucking moderators to treat 3p as a free mislynch scum get to have, and it's bullshit.

pedit: Oh hey varsoon is here, let me see what he has to say.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Fluminator: It's fucking stupid fatalism like that that leads to this stupid perpetuation. Like, why shuld any fucking 3p play to help town at any point if town is just always going to fucking kill them? You can fucking rolecop me and confirm that I'm not fucking lying, and decide for yoruself if you think scum have a stump and a normal kill and a strongman or not. I ALWAYS fucking play to help town win as 3p, it literally lost me a game as a survivor once, but I guess that doesn't matter. Let's just keep wasting our time throwing away lynches on roles that aren't people our win con requires that we kill.

-Cerb

pedit: no. Seriously, we cut through BP. Immunity to killing action sis different from bulletproof.

@mod: is immunity to killing actions the same as bulletproof?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

@Varsoon

If someone is both killed and treestumped, what would happen to them?

They get killed. I had the thought of trying to target someone who we knew was doing an important investigation and ensuring their result could be shared the next morning, but Varsoon told me they just die.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh, wait. Yeah. There is an extra line in our role card saying "normal kill protection does not prevent this "treestumping", So yeah. I guess without that line normal kill protection WOULD save someone. but it doesn't save them from us.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh, and no. I can't win if you guys kill us. So we get to be a survivor that trades awesome power for only being able to win with town! Yay!

...

-Cerb

pedit: My lynch is not off the table, I'm still at L-2, and the only person currently voting me who is actually here is DP, who is unwilling to unvote and hasn't answered my most recent query.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

So mafia either hit a protected person, or they were roleblocked. They couldn't have also targeted Pip.

Yes.

So, DP, us, ABR's target, some other protected slot, or they were blocked.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Well, at least your lynch is off the table for today.

Which brings us to the question: Who is the lynch du jour?

HELL THE FUCK NO

WE ARE LYNCHING THIS SHIT

You still haven't addressed my last response to you, explaining why stumping you was a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also, DP, WHY are we "lynching this shit?" I've addressed all your reasons so far. Give me some more to address.

-Cerb

pedit: Why are you so angry now DP?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I spent two fucking days defending pip from Titus and you just fucking stump him after he daykills the unlynchable SK? NO. You die now.

Probably already been answered but it was part of our win-con so *shrug*

[The Cool Cucumbers]

IT'S MY FUCKING WIN CON ABR!!

Lol.

Pip HAD to die at some point for our slot to win. Period.

-Cerb

Nevermind.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

KC, why is lowkey scum? i was busy freaking out over getting policy lynched so I kinda skimmed your reads list. You didn't give any reasons in the list itself.

Also, to whoever mocked her putting us as town: Functionally, our play is identical to town play. The *only* thing I've done different than I might do with this role as pure town, is I would have considered stumping someone other than pip(probably flum), but pip would have still been on the table for town!me, because unlike you, ABR, i did not view him as obviously town.

-Cerb

pedit: mollie: I apologize. Let me rephrase that. Why are you writing in all caps now and being super insistent on my lynch?

ABR, yes, of course you need a Rylai flip at some point. Too much of the game state hinges on those they've declared conftown. However, there are too many people involved for them to all be scum in the worst case scenario. I don't know how reasonable an informed scum role that knows certain roles exist in the game is. It could be someone on their team had some special thing related to them, like the blue/rouge interaction, and so they knew those slots were in the game, and planned that out. I don't know man. It would help solve the game, but I think it's less likely to find scum than a lot of other targets. *shrug*

[The Cool Cucumbers]

No double lynch, we're just going to lynch TCC. Imagine he tree stumps Sensei or some shit. We're not taking any chances.

Because we really have an incentive to do this?
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Klingoncelt
The Cool Cucumbers (wgeurts & cerberus v666)
Drunken Pirates (Titus & Pirate Mollie)
Drixx
Zulfy Wickedestjr
Rylai and Lina (Shiro & Frozen Angel)
Skybird
Albert B. Rampage
DrippingGoofball
Yosarian2
Lowkey (Lowell & Hinduragi)
Fluminator
Sensei
ZZZX

I am hard pressed to find 3 scum here. Somebody is lying.

Umm. Why are you looking for 3 scum? I feel a 5 man scum team plus sk plus our kills, some of which were intended to hit town in balancing stuff, is a bit much? There are probably only 2 in that list.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

You could have tree stumped any number of lurkers, antitown players, scummy players, you just didn't give a fuck. You blatantly pushed a bad Cooldog double lynch, then you tried to treestump DP, then you tried to get me to claim, the whole thing reeks. I think you're scum.

Do we need to quote what we were discussing for each of the kills for you?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Scum should be 25% of players. 21 players. 5 scum + SK.

25% of 21 is closer to 5 than 6....

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Well obviously Skybird should test it on TCC.

Yep! If you don't want me stumping anything tonight, this is optimal. Actually, as a matter of fact, if you kept skybird around OR got the right techniques, knowing who we are you could ensure we never stumped anything unless you wanted us to.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Skybird is kinda someone who should probably get lynched at some point though, but yeah. Just thinking out loud.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

KC: I'll ask you like I've asked everyone else: Do you not believe that we are legitimately third fucking party, or are you just policy lynching us because we're 3p?

oh, ABR: If Varsoon tells me that we can't win with town if we get lynched before end game, then that's something I may have left out, but it's not something I know right now. I need to get an answer from him.

-Cerb

pedit: Stumping R&L was our current plan for the night, after Zulfy's claim. It was actually our plan on N1, before they claimed the names. I figured we could stump them, and then they could hold the names in reserve to conftown the appropriate people whne the time came, instead of giving scum the opportunity to use them as fake claims, in the event they weren't scum.

pedit x2: Varsoon said he just thought we could just claim Lord Orlouge. I looked up flavor and was like mmmm that's like the main villain of the game I don't want to get autolynched for claiming to be the main villain of the game pleaes give me a fake claim.

pedit x3:

BECAUSE OUR WIN CON IS REMOVE ALL KILLING ROLES AND HE HAD A KILLING ROLE.

Regardless of whether he was scum or not, we HAD to remove him. At this point, I find it unlikely that there are any more killing roles, but ya know what, there may be? And ya know what else, if you don't tell us to stump them, we won't, because then we get auto lynched and potentially lose depending on what varsoon has to say.

then why wld you stump us? we don't have a killing role.

[REDACTED]

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Yep

[The Cool Cucumbers]

[REDACTED]

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Are you still ignoring me mollie?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Hello mollie?
wgeurts speaking here.
Could you possibly not make us loose, I mean: think of the benefits of keeping us alive. We can take out suspects at will, and we have to hunt scum. We are a threat to the scum team!
If the game isn't over once all scum are dead lynch us. But that won't happen.
Yes this is a desperate attempt at winning you over. Realise that scum see us as a threat, and in the case we do get lynched please take a really good look at who went after us; especially after we claimed.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh. Your reason is kinda bad then KC. That's not alignment indicative at all. It was a dick move, sure, but it has nothing to do with whether or not he's scum.

And yeah, you make a valid point about R&L. It's just very concerning that we're just...accepting a group of people as conftown.
-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I haven't read the last 5 pages as cerb says apparently we are about to get lynched, which

isn't

needed!
And anyone that dares sap town credit from this lynch later is wrong. Our play is the same as town as we have the same goal, we could of just as well been a mislynch. Instead you are lynching a threat to Black-X.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Anyway reads before we are hanged out of the blue:

Town

Sensei
ABR
DP
R&L
Yosarian
ZZZX
KC
Lowkey
Zulfy
Flum
Skybird
DGB

Scum

I feel like I'm missing some.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Lol. Is copying Skype logs even legal? There's probably no faking that. Wgeurts giving me the hammer and scum reading me now makes sense. It was confusing me since it didn't make much sense for either town or scum. Third party though. Heh.

Can you post the one where you target Pip?

flum i am here

Hey. Do you think we should still lynch him, or try to leash him?

It is, we messaged varsoon about it a while back.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Sorry about that.
Anyone want well paraphrased skype logs?
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Hey flum, about GWS.
I hastily had him lynched after he claimed vig as we need all vigs dead, that should also make more sense now.
I was town reading him slightly and had been planning to reread his ISO but then he claimed...

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Now, we were also debating to kill MP before we shot DP and had originally told varsoon to stump him. You can believe us or not, but I can

paraphrase

our thoughts at the time if you wish.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Nobody?
You literally have a self-proclaimed wizard vampire rambling here and nobody seems bothered.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Klingon, thoughts on the whole "let the flying wizard shark live and keep him as a useful pet" idea?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Scum should be 25% of players. 21 players. 5 scum + SK.

Or 4 scum, 1 SK and 1 Anti-SK 3P?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Sharks are interesting pets at first, but eventually they grow too big for their tanks.

For now, a leash is okay I think.

If the shark eats all the bully sharks and remains alive you should put it down.
However there's no need for that, a leash works and everyone will be happy.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Frozen Angel
Why can't we live?
What is the benefit of us dying?
Think people, think!
I'm not letting us get lynched stupidly after all this.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

R&L, we wanted to confirm your role as scum will coast and later WiFoM with it if you live too long.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Frozen Angel
Why can't we live?
What is the benefit of us dying?
Think people, think!
I'm not letting us get lynched stupidly after all this.

a scum tree stumper will die and town has a chance to just end this game tonight.

~Rylai

A: Not scum, we win with town or loose.
B: Wrong, as once again; not-scum.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

lol

If rylai is scum I'll eat my hat.

Same

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Like varsoon literally thoughts of our and DS' role as a dance.
The unlynchable killer that wants everyone dead and the bulletproof treestumper that wants to stop all death. Can't you see varsoon doing this?
Our flavour is something about a kingdom we must bring peace to.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Frozen Angel, I know you are clever so please take a second to consider what I say here:
Do you think the fire vote is scum aligned? If so why would we burn ourselves?
Do you think varsoon would give scum an effective unlimited strongman-vig? That goes against all balance code.
Do you think our flavour doesn't make sense? If so why?
Don't you think varsoon would do what I mentioned early?
I literally proposed a solution that involves you lynching us if the game isn't over when all Black-X is lynched, how isn't this win-win?
Do you think I would bus DGB most of the game?
Think and answer please, I trust you are able to rethink thoughts and view them from different sides. Come on FA

[The Cool Cucumbers]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend is it not?

Why do we have to be lynched? We can help find scum as that is part of our win-condition. We can help shoot targets the town wants dead. We aren't a threat to you (unless you're a vig, sorry about that), the members of Black-X want us dead! Why? Because they cannot kill us, but we can kill them!
So here is my proposal:
We only kill who the town wants us to kill. If we shoot anyone else: lynch us.
If we are alive when all other scum are dead, then you'll know we are a liar and you lynch us.
We cannot do anything harmful to you this way. I am willing to handcuff myself as a last shot attempt at trying to accomplish the win-condition we came so far in achieving, I haven't been proud of my play for a while so I'm not going down without a fight.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Site-meta is to storm-ram any third party, I think this is wrong. There are scenarios where you can benefit from keeping a third-party around. This is one of them.
If anyone votes us now without giving any explanation why the above can't be done, know that you are playing awfully. I'm looking at pirates in particular right now, start speaking.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

We can stump them if others agree.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also all those saying we put ourselves on fire, read this:
In post 6130 we voiced suspicion people were placing votes on themselves with the fire to gain town-cred, this was before people started accusing us of doing just this. (which is far-fetched already but hey). Do you think we would really bring this up, then follow through with it ourselves? Especially when there were plenty of lynch-bait around.
Also note that only we have been accused of trying to get town-cred from it while the other two got given town-cred for it. I'm not saying you should have given us town-cred, I'm saying that people aren't noticing that their logic is faulty. The original fire people may have done this stupid gambit yet nobody except us really considered that.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

They won't agree but stump her anyway.

Make sure we are alive when night falls and we will see.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I'm gonna sleep on this but I'm leaning towards just lynching you guys.
We'll see.
But I don't want you to stump r&l yet at any rate.

What do you gain from lynching us?
Please sleep on that.
Weigh the benefits.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I'm going to sleep, then work, then I'm free tomorrow evening. If we're still alive then I'll get to work on figuring things out, I should be around a lot more this week.

ABR: why is DGB town? I actually read her iso and was about to do a writeup on it cause I didn't make any actual notes when I go distracted by friends wanting to watch B5, but nothing I saw looks good for her. I saw her express more positive feelings about MP and GWS (who, in particular she calls an excited little townie ), than anybody else but you. She also attempted to wagon itlepips slot at least. I'll have more details tomorrow when I actually take notes during my read, but...it's not great, especially combined with the lack of content and blatant sheeping (btw, she was willing to sheep us earlier, but was super okay with sheeping someone else onto voting us)..like, you know her better. Why is she town?

Anyways, good night all. Please don't kill us while I sleep.

-Cerb

Pedit: also, ABR, you realize if they were to get stumped, she'd still be able to post. It does nothing to silence people. And, hi Shiro. I didn't realize you were still playing.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

This could be you guys:

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I won't kill R&L without town's permission.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

If the town vig was already dead, then maybe we could risk letting TCC live. But as it is, we can't risk it; TCC's claimed win condition will force him to keep lynching and nightkilling townies until the vig is dead. And that's assuming there is only 1 real town vig.

You do realise 3 town vigs are dead and I'm gambling my entire win-condition on there not being any more and if there are scum shooting them?
It is a gamble, but it is better than having no chance of winning.
Once again, if we deviate from the towns will you simply Lynch us. The whole "they will betray us" is invalid as if we do; we die.

Hydra pickup.

Skybird, we are at L-2. Also, please don't attempt to draw parallels between Drixx and myself to justify lynching us. Our analysis is similar, and the way we discover scum is. That's what we're referring to all those times when we mention how similar our play is. If you don't believe us that's one thing, but please have some more thought behind it than "well Drixx did thing this one time".

Yosarian: what wgeurts said. 3 town vigs are already dead. There is nothing we can do to attempt to *out* town prs, because you already know our objective, amd considering all the dead vigs had unlimited, though gated, shots, I'm quite willing to risk losing by becoming passive at this point and letting scum shoot who they will, rather than GUARANTEE lowing by not doing what you want. *shrug* you could even have zulfy sliding us and skybird role block us every night. That'll ensure that we can't vote against towns interests, or shoot without your blessing.

Yes, if there are NO town left , obviously town doesn't win because your win condition specifies at least one member of the protagonists must be alive.

Whoever doubted that was all we could do: We have a functional strongman kill which let's people keep talking, and we're permanently bulletproof. What else would we need?? Even if we had other abilities we could use, unless they are day powers, roleblocking us would keep us from using them.Again zzzx can rolecop us if he wants, and confirm that we haven't left anything out if you still have all these doubts about the threat we pose.

Actually, I'm going to do wgeurts one better. If we get to 7p, the point where, if we were scum, you'd be in lylo, just fucking lynch us. I'm willing to bet we can win the game today/tomorrow, by lynching scum twice in a row, or even win tonight, by lynching scum today and having us shoot where you want us to tonight. If two scum flip and the game doesn't end, kill us. If we shoot where you don't want us to, or vote when you don't want us to, kill us. If we are alive at 7p, for the love of everything fucking kill us.

Just don't kill us now while we can still win without you risking we'll make you lose.

You have the means to control us perfectly and remove all the normal risks of leasing a 3p kill. Up to you to use it.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Hello mollie?
wgeurts speaking here.
Could you possibly not make us loose, I mean: think of the benefits of keeping us alive. We can take out suspects at will, and we have to hunt scum. We are a threat to the scum team!
If the game isn't over once all scum are dead lynch us. But that won't happen.
Yes this is a desperate attempt at winning you over. Realise that scum see us as a threat, and in the case we do get lynched please take a really good look at who went after us; especially after we claimed.

you tried to stump/kill us on d1. are you fucking kidding me here?

catching up

plz tell abr's sanity returns and that very very stupid klingon thing stops posting.

mollie, how did we try to fuck town over? Seriously?

Imagine you don't know your own alignment, and you see a hydra with you and Titus in it, a pair of very good players. You then see this hydra claim BP on D1, while under no pressure and without anyone prompting them to claim. Are you telling me you would seriously not be suspicious of that claim? Then suppose you have a means of removing them as threats if they're scum, while ensuring you do not deprive the town of their scum hunting skills if it turns out they're town?

How is that "fucking town over?" Why are you so much more upset over this, than you would be if we had tried to get you lynched? It amounts to the same thing, we just had more tools to act on our suspicion than people usually do.

Please mollie, try to look at this through the eyes of someone who *doesn't* know your alignment.

-Cerb

pedit: You NEVER said you would be mod confirmed on D1. You said you would be unkillable at 10 players. If you DID say you would be mod confirmed, then I missed it, but considering that your mod confirmation was something people were questioning EVEN TODAY I'm pretty certain you did not say that. We stumped itlepip because he was a vig, it was our win con to remove him, AND killing a SK didn't make him town. You even pointed out yourself( I think, but someone else may have said that, if so, sorry.) that shooting a sk doesn't mean someone isn't scum.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oooh, actually, I just had a thought! Since I realized the idea of having skybird RB us is meh if you don't think she's town(which pretty much nobody should think), How about on the nights when you don't want us to shoot anyone, we attempt to shoot skybird, and skybird roleblocks us. If anyone gets stumped other than her, then you know we betrayed you and lynch us, and it ensures she doesn't use her roleblock to stop anything else that's going on unless she wants to die herself.

That's if you don't trust skybird only, ofc.

-Cerb

pedit:

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Although, honestly, I don't know if keeping skybird alive is a good idea, but it's the only known way to control us, unless someone wants to go adventuring for suplex.

Actually.

@Varsoon: Can more than one fist technique be used in the same day phase, without the usage of Dream Super Combo? Basically, if someone had the first two levels of Fist techniques, could they use both Sliding and Suplex on the same target, in the same day phase?

-Cerb

pedit: Drixx post. Will read and respond

[The Cool Cucumbers]

*shrug* What Drixx is saying is basically the ideal way to utilize our presence in the game, with the added restrictions I've suggested, the ones that ensure we can't actually do anything unless you want us to and make sure we die before we keeping us alive could risk town losing if we were fake claiming.

mollie, you're not actually making any reasonable points. If you think we're fake claiming(which there's actually a preponderance of evidence against(which I'll list now. 1) If you think the fire vote is scum, it's absurd for us to put it on ourselves and THEN fake claim an autolynch role. Might as well have claimed town tree stumper, without the BP. 2)We didn't self hammer and deny fluminator or skybird power when the opportunity came and it seems unlikely that we'd survive(this is kinda null though, if we were scum that would be taking the scum team from 3 down to 2, so it might not be something I'd consider worth it), 3) We claimed to have shot at fucking DP of all people. We could have claimed to have shot at anyone, and NOBODY would have been able to say otherwise, because we already know what the tracker/watcher was doing on N1, so unless there are others and they decided to target us, there's way safer targets to say we shot at rather than alienating one of the stronger voices in the town.), then it's perfectly reasonable to want to lynch us, because then you think we're scum. If you think we're telling the truth about our role, it's objectively bad play to lynch us at this juncture in the game, because you are guaranteed to be wasting a lynch.

So yeah, either you believe us and shouldn't want to lynch us, or you don't, and thus you should want to lynch us. Any talk of "too risky to keep them alive, but I believe their claim" is just bad.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also, please, everybody stop speculating about how many vigs we have. I realize that's partly my fault but still. You're spilling information all over the place.

Valid point.

Drixx, I think it would be TERRIBLE play for town to keep us alive past the point where a lylo would exist if we were part of the scum team. Like, the WORST. (Likely number of scum left in the game+1)*2+1 is the lowest number of players we should go before you lynch us. So, right now, that's 7. If we catch scum today, it's 5, and if we catch both scum and the game doesn't end, you should powerlynch the fuck out of us.

That's optimal. Waiting any longer risks losing to us making this claim as scum.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

So, R&L, you just 100% don't believe our claim? Seriously, read what I said. Either you believe us or you don't. If you believe us, lynching us doesn't make sense, especially in a game where you can ensure we are incapable of doing anything. Ever. Unless you want us to.

Yosarian: What don't you get about Drixx?

-Cerb

pedit: R&L, do you not see how DGB sheeped us, and then randomly sheeped yosarian to start wagoning us? In what universe are we scum with DGB and DGB sheeped us and then unnecessarily drew attention to themselves by abruptly going from willing to sheep our vote to willing to sheep someone elses vote on us? I think what they did is extremely scummy and doesn't make any sense, it displays a largely cavalier attitude about who gets lynched so long as it isn't them, so they could easily be scum, but it doesn't make any sense for them to be scum with us. I also think scum!us would have hammered ourselves before there was any risk of people slowing down the conversation and remembering double lynches are possible, if DGB were our partner. I don't think anybody but yourself has considered it likely that we're working together, so it wouldn't have been obvious who we were protecting.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Reading now.

wow

This just about sums up that claim.

I know right? Kinda the coolest role ever, honestly.

Also, R&L, we've been suspicious of DGB basically the whole game? The only time we've displayed any uncertainty about them was when wgeurts saw they said they were basically super out of the game and thus couldn't do anything more than sheep their strongest town read. Other than that, I've always wanted them dead(if for no other reason than my dislike for lurkers). Anyway, you get the point. DGB scum is perfectly possible. Us scum is perfectly possible. Us as scum with DGB doesn't make much sense. not that it matters I guess. You still haven't told me if you just don't believe us, or if you believe us and think we should be lynched anyways.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

FA, please calm down.

Lowkey: Zulfy claimed to be Liza, the other character that, like Sensei's character, R&L claims to know is town. Thus, once they made that claim, all pressure on them stopped. They also claimed to have access to all the first techniques(which is why i'm asking if they can use more than one on us so they could stop us from voting/using any powers if you guys decide to believe us and leash us).

Hell, actually, they should really use the anti-voting power on us, because it'll confirm we're not ascetic at least(though we could be some ascetic variant that would be affected by that particular power), which was the one concern I had about my foolproof plan of ensuring we can't be a threat to the town.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Ok, Cerb needs to die. No ifs ands or buts.

Right now, we have a Gamestate where we want low as fuck kpn. Sensai and I cannot be killed (speaking of which more Sensai MC votes people). This forces the scum to kill Zulfy or ABR. Scum must start murdering conftown or they will lose. They cannot afford a bus as long as Myself, Sensai and Zulfy are alive. Having a wagon with resistance at this time is highly indicative that TCC is scum or provides scum a huge benefit.

Increasing KPN (although it reduces the time till we innocent child) is bad for town. Doubly so if we do it for information. TCC is not a "town controlled kill". He's not a vig. Town doesn't want death. Scum does.

We have 14 alive. If we have 1 kpn and 3 scum remaining, that's 3 mislynches in a row scum would have to get. That's unlikely. Doubly so with a high number of confirmed town.

If we have two kpn and three scum left alive, scum need only two mislynches before lylo. Plus, if anyone hints at being vig, they die and not scum (as Cerb has to keep up appearances).

What's my rule? Count the bodies.

Cerb dies.

~Titus

Hi Titus. I'm not suggesting you go to 2 KPN. I'm actually suggesting all the infinite ways you can ensure we *don't* shoot anything unless you ever want us to. Also, town does want death. Town wants *scum* death. Not only am I willing to never shoot or vote anything unless directed to, I've also outlined the methods within the game you can use to ENSURE that we don't shoot or vote unless told to. I've literally handed you the plan for removing all the risk of this being a scum fake claim from the game.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

DP: Why is Rylai conftown? I've asked that a few times now, but I've never received an answer. I understand that scum!rylai making the claim they did on D1 is extremely unlikely, particularly if sensei were scum with them, so Sensei is like, basically impossible as scum...but it's not unreasonable for scum!rylai to have seen the wiki and realized that it made sense for them to know who two of the possible town slots were, and know they *weren't* in the scum team because they know all the members of the scum team, and thus planned to give town some conftown that will become suspicious if they ever flip, while buying themselves town credit.

I'm not saying I think they're scum, mind you. I'm saying tell me why you're calling them conftown?

-Cerb

pedit: What do you mean ABR?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I will rolecop Rylia tonight. Is there ANY way to ensure I am not roleblocked?

If you guys decide to keep us alive, it's PROBABLY safer to rolecop us, than R&L, unless you go with my plan of having zulfy shut down our voting today to confirm we're not ascetic, and then having us shoot skybird and skybird roleblocks us, so no kill happens and skybirds action is locked in, so they can't roleblock you.

Also, if there are any empowers in the game to ensure you don't get roleblocked, i would recommend they *don't* claim.

-Cerb

pedit: Claiming miller doesn't make you less likely to be scum, nor does knowing the flavor of the game. Telling the truth about your adventure power is also not alignment indicative. The interactions between yourself and scum IS potentially alignment indicative, and a valid point.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

So yeah. Assuming we live(because if you're going to lynch us, this is all a moot point)

Zulfy can vote block us, confirm we're not ascetic.
Skybird can role block us, make us easier to lynch if you decide you want to lynch us and ensure we don't shoot anything.
We shoot at skybird, so if skybird is scum, she HAS to roleblock us or die.
ZZZX rolecops R&L to at least confirm that Sensei and Zulfy are extremely unlikely to be scum, unless they're somehow the entire remaining scum team who are all linked together by R&L's claim, but...the rolecop will show R&L as miller, so that'll actually semi-confirm her alignment right?

Alternatively, Zulfy can, if possible, both vote and roleblock us using two of the first powers, and skybird can do something else if you want.

*shrug* Or you can not do any of that. Just outlining possibilities here.

I should really do some work...

-Cerb

pedit: What exactly do you want me to talk about with you R&L? And yes, you're right, everything I've been saying since I claimed is noise, just like the noise you're making, because I don't want to lose, especially when I KNOW it's simply bad play to lynch us automatically right now. I also said when I get home I'll be able to actually work on the game for the first time, because I'll have time to do so. Also, you do realize I've made a bunch of points against DGB in at two of the posts you're just calling noise?

pedit: DP, read this post.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

DP, I've only made *2* treestump choices. One is mandated by my win con.

Please, tell me how attempting to stump you after D1 is a bad choice? Seriously? Tell me who would be stupid enough to not be suspicious of you guys after D1? I really want you to outline how exactly you were obviously town D1.

You keep going on about that like stumping you would have been an anti-town thing to fucking do, when it wasn't at that time! There was no fucking reason to think you were town after D1. Like, absolutely *none*.

-Cerb

pedit: R&L, there is no discernible difference between your scum outbursts and town outbursts. ABR, this is a dumb thing to want to lynch her for.

Holy shit R&L wtf are you doing? Do not fucking claim shit for no reason. ABR IS IN THE FRIGGIN HOOD WITH YOU YOU COULD HAVE CLAIMED IT IN PRIVATE.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

ABR stop. R&L stop. stop talking about your powers. Go to the hood if you want to do that. R&L DO NOT CORRECT HIM HERE.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

If you mention a power you have in this game, IT IS GAME RELATED. STOP IT. STOP BEING FUCKING BAD.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

that still isn't a reason to claim it in here R&L. Seriously. Ugh. Can we please get back to the actual useful conversations?

ABR, it is extremely unlikely you will be able to get a R&L lynch today. Stop pushing here and making her ruin the thread.

R&L, stop engaging with ABR please? Their is nothing productive coming from your conversation. Answer my questions please.

-Cerb

R&L: Just take a walk okay? Cool off. We both know how these sorts of exchanges can go. :-/

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I don't play mafia with my heart. I actively dislike everything about the way FA plays, but unless you can show me actual reasons to think she's scum, other than the out there theories I've suggested, then...this isn't a push worth making ABR.

Like, if you can't convince even me, she's not going to get lynched.

And I'm not going to stump her unless the town votes for me to do so.

-Cerb

pedit: Hmm. ABR, the theory is strong, but scum are in too weak a position. If we were closwer to endgame, like, down to 9 players or something, and the reflex shot would put the person she voted at L-1 so he could just hammer them at the start of the day, or so the day would just automatically end in a lynch, that would be a valid point. Since it's *not* that late in the game, the scumminess of the reflex shot thing is basically removed.

pedit: her play is anti-town, but it usually is in my limited experience. Again, NAI.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

mollie, Titus, where are you people? I've directed questions at both of you.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

R&L, your playstyle is anti-town. The whole emotional blowing up the thread thing does not help town win, it actively makes people not want to play the game, and thus it is anti-town. That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying any of the pushes/votes/actions you've claimed this game are anti-town(except for claiming the reflex shot in thread, that just removed it's utility as a way to find scum, so you nerfed your own power), but the WAY you play the game is anti-town. It's purely a playstyle thing.

-Cerb

pedit: Yosarian, she's been wanting to kill him since the start of this whole debacle. Also, umm, you never told me what you don't get about Drixx's posts. Or responded to any of my suggestions for ensuring we're not a threat and get to actually win as 3p instead of just autolosing when we claim.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

[instagram][/instagram]

Or responded to any of my suggestions for ensuring we're not a threat and get to actually win as 3p instead of just autolosing when we claim.

Your plan does not really work at containing you. And on the off chance you don't already know why, I am not going to explain it to you, for obvious reasons.

Umm. I'm pretty sure being voteblocked to test if I'm ascetic or not (since I can get my vote blocked, then try to vote and you can all see it worked), then being roleblocked (either during the day, by zulfy, with a publicly used power), aND potentially roleblocked by Skybird as well, does a pretty damn good job of making sure we can't do anything? If your concern is that you aren't certain of Zulfys claim, since there no way to publicly test that their ability worked we do the skybird thing as well, for tonight, until zzzx' rolecop on R&L confirms zulfy as likely, though not guaranteed town. I mean, it's quite literally the best you can do I think? :/ And the entirety of it is a just in case guarantee, because I'm not even going to attempt to shoot anything unless I'm supposed to.

-Cerb

Pedit: it's okay FA. It doesn't hurt me at least, I just want to try to help you.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

DP, I've only made *2* treestump choices. One is mandated by my win con.

Please, tell me how attempting to stump you after D1 is a bad choice? Seriously? Tell me who would be stupid enough to not be suspicious of you guys after D1? I really want you to outline how exactly you were obviously town D1./quote]

the part where I said we were mod confirmable and you tried to stump us before we had a chance to confirm ourselves.

and lemme get this straight

you didn't think we were a vig? and stumped us anyway? were you not playing to your "wc" on purpose cos...I dunno mebbe that isn't your wc and you are lying.

how is this thing being allowed to live

When did you say you were mod confirmable as town on D1? Point that out to me? Seriously? At best, you said you had a "confirmable role," which is not the same as becoming an IC. If you DID say you were mod confirmable as town, which, as I've said repeatedly, obviously wasn't clear or else there wouldn't have been questions about it even today, I obviously didn't notice it, or else I wouldn't have shot at you because there would be no defense I could use. And again, WHY WOULD I CLAIM TO HAVE SHOT AT YOU WHEN I COULD HAVE CLAIMED TO HAVE SHOT AT ANYONE?

Seriously mollie. Fucking think.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also, let me fucking repeat this: I NEED TO KILL EVERYONE WITH A KILLING ABILITY ON THEIR ROLE CARD. THAT MEANS ALL THE SCUM, AND ALL THE TOWN VIGS.

Clearly, when we shot at you, it was because WE THOUGHT YOU MIGHT BE SCUM.

That's what I keep saying. Read my posts. Stop being irrational. Tell me why the hell anyone would have thought you were town after D1's massive cooldog push plus you claiming BP and removing all utility from your role? Show me where you made it crystal clear that you were a fucking IC at 10 players.

I'm waiting.

-Cerb

pedit: zzzx, why oh why did you claim that power? Dude, people. you need to stop just claiming your powers to no benefit. :-/ there was no reason for you to say you could do that.

pedit x2: yes pip. i already apologized for it. Win con is kill all people with a killing ability as a result of their role or faction. So, all scum+town vigs.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Mollie: Also, remind me again why anti-town us wants to make sure pirate mollie and Titus get to keep scumhunting all the way through endgame? Do you understand how incredibly stupid it would be to keep the two of you around as scum, with no ability to silence you? I wanted you to, in the worst case, be guaranteed to never be silenced. Any argument that stumping you D1 was anti-town is idiotic. You're better than that. You should be able to perfectly understand why it made sense to be suspicious of you, and why stumping you WASN'T an anti-town thing to do.

-Cerb

pedit: Whoever you want, because you don't want scum to know who you're targeting? :-/ Just not skybird, basically, assuming she's roleblocking us. Not anybody you consider obviously town? It's pretty simple.

pedit: Mollie, answer my friggin posts. You've been ignoring us all game.

pedit x3: You stay here forever as far as I know. We don't silence people.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also I wasn't a vig CC, I just had a dayvig magic thing which I think anyone could get, I don't think that counts.

If it doesn't count than we fucked up, but, well, the ability says we win when every role with access to a killing ability as a result of their faction or role is dead, and you got that power from neighborizing someone, right? So i'm pretty sure it counted.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

oh I forgot :

If I could have change my personality I would gladly do it.

I can't . It only heals over time. I'm really really really really really trying like the way I tried to control myself in talking with ABR atm. But thats all I can do atm

sorry if I'm hurting you

rylai plz stop responding to abr

he knows you are emotional and he is trying to get to you.

the levels of stupidity are astonishing in this game. like holy shit

cuke pple need to die their claim is full of shit. also I am ignoring all of their posts cos they just need to die.

Tell me why scum!me makes this claim, with the claimed N1 action I gave. Seriously. You've played with me before, you should have *some* idea of my competence, same with wgeurts. Why does scum!me do this?

Also, please tell Titus I want her to respond to me debunking her claim that I need to die because I'm going to increase the KPN which is bad?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

ZZX: I guess? I suppose there is basically no chance they have 3 roleblockers, since ya know their first roleblocker did already die.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

btw, what is ABR's current claim?

Not bulletproof. He's said nothing about his doctor status or targeting history(DP asked him).

-Cerb

pedit:ZZZX: that's fine, and it's what I'm trying to tell you people to do, because it's the optimal play since you can actually stop us from doing anything with all the mechanics in this game.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

btw, what is ABR's current claim?

its still doctor minus the bp

plz don't leave us alone here

Why do you keep appealing to people like this? Seriously? If you're concerned about the fact that my role specifically counters yours, I already told you how to ensure we can't do anything.

This is like the safest situation ever to let a 3p live. Scum is likely at 2/14 players left alive( THAT'S 9 DEATHS FROM LYLO, 7 IF YOU INCLUDE THE SAFETY MARGIN FOR US), and we can have ourselves become effectively stumped through vote stopping and roleblocking in the game, and become unstumped if it ever makes sense to do so.

Please explain how my reasoning is wrong. And also point out where you CLEARLY claimed you would be mod confirmed town on D1, because you keep saying that like it's a thing, and it's not. Just because you keep saying something doesn't magically mean it happened when there's not any evidence that it did.

-Cerb

pedit: WHY? EXPLAIN WHY THE HELL YOU ARE SO INDIE UNFRIENDLY IN THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION???

[The Cool Cucumbers]

amber text? what do you mean itlepip?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Cerb: even if you are 100% telling the truth, you are still a threat to the town and to the town win condition. You could very well kill us all and win as a SK, by your own admission. Any attempt to contain you is risky and imperfect for us and prone to eventually fail, and you know it.

Now if there was someone else I was almost sure was mafia then maybe I'd lynch them before you, but let's be clear here; the town is better off if you are dead.

But why would I do that Yosarian? Assuming I am 100% telling the truth, that is only possible if we end up in a 3p situation going into the night phase, and scum shoot town and I shoot scum, or we shoot one another, or whatever. Like, that whole scenario is ONLY a risk in super late game, which I have NO chance of being part of. It's purely a paranoia lynch at this point, NOT a logical lynch. Scum HAVE to lynch me in 3p lylo, so we couldn't end up in a situation where they'd move to lynch the last townie over me. AND every single suggestion I've made has included the caveat that I be lynched after we get 2 scum and the game isnt over, or when we hit 7p alive, whichever comes first. Hell, 8 people alive, since we're at 14, and that means 3 day/night cycles without extra kills and allows for an extra kill to happen on the third day and not result in a town loss if I were lying.

-Cerb

mollie: are you going to answer my questions?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Drixx, mollie has a really bad habit of thinking saying the word "confirmable" means everyone assumes she means IC. I don't doubt somewhere she said she had a mod confirmable role. That isn't saying she's mod confirmed town at 10 players. That, I am positive she has never said.

R&L, pick one: Either you believe our claim or you don't. Proceed from that. If you don't believe our claim, outline why, and I'll tell you why you're wrong. If you do believe our claim, we've told you over nad over again why lynching us is bad play.

Actually, I will address these things.

1 - the tree stump and his flavor claim is not making him 3p. he can be still in group scum

<<<<True. You need to decide if you believe that I'm group scum in spite of these reasons taken from 7425:

Spoiler: Reasons

1) If you think the fire vote is scum, it's absurd for us to put it on ourselves and THEN fake claim an autolynch role. Might as well have claimed town tree stumper, without the BP. 2)We didn't self hammer and deny fluminator or skybird power when the opportunity came and it seems unlikely that we'd survive(this is kinda null though, if we were scum that would be taking the scum team from 3 down to 2, so it might not be something I'd consider worth it), 3) We claimed to have shot at fucking DP of all people. We could have claimed to have shot at anyone, and NOBODY would have been able to say otherwise, because we already know what the tracker/watcher was doing on N1, so unless there are others and they decided to target us, there's way safer targets to say we shot at rather than alienating one of the stronger voices in the town.

2 - we can definitely assume that , the tree stump is not his only power

<<<there is actually no reason to assume that? I fail to see how being an unlimited strongman+unlimited BP means I must have more power?

3 - I'm sure there is an agenda that he felt he can claim this today and ask to live for a while (MC party please)

<<WTF? I was pressured into it by being put at L-1 and by having the double voting Sensei say if I didn't claim within 30 minutes he was going to lynch me.

4 - I won't let scum live

<<I'm not scum, so this doesn't mean anything. Even if I were scum, it's not a point you can add to alist like this because it doesn't mean anything.

5 - tree stumping has basically no difference from killing - only that the person is free to talk.

<<<Yes, you are correct. Why is this relevant?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

@ drixx -

no, I said we had the potential to be confirmable on d1.

all this shows is that you pple don't read a thing I say.

I don't give a flying fuck if he is your IRL friend. he is getting lynched TODAY even if I have to yell, scream, sell a kidney and throw a hissy fit in order to do it.

its what we are doing.

Can you quote that? I clearly missed it.

I am not going to go trawling through d1's 815 posts to find a claim that you shld already have had marked down.

eta: @ itelpip - if I am scum I am lynched if I am town I am nked COS I AM OBVS TOWN. my face turns red and I can't help it if some1 asks me if I am scum and every1 knows this which is why it is the first thing pple do in a game. I once tried to imagine that every1 was naked when I was scum and bluff my way out of it but all it did was traumatize me.

Fine. I will. It should be simple enough to just do a search for the letters conf, right? or the letters mod? When I find that you made no such claim, will that change your opinion of our stump choice on N1?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Drixx, mollie has a really bad habit of thinking saying the word "confirmable" means everyone assumes she means IC. I don't doubt somewhere she said she had a mod confirmable role. That isn't saying she's mod confirmed town at 10 players. That, I am positive she has never said.

R&L, pick one: Either you believe our claim or you don't. Proceed from that. If you don't believe our claim, outline why, and I'll tell you why you're wrong. If you do believe our claim, we've told you over nad over again why lynching us is bad play.

Actually, I will address these things.

1 - the tree stump and his flavor claim is not making him 3p. he can be still in group scum

<<<<True. You need to decide if you believe that I'm group scum in spite of these reasons taken from 7425:

Spoiler: Reasons

1) If you think the fire vote is scum, it's absurd for us to put it on ourselves and THEN fake claim an autolynch role. Might as well have claimed town tree stumper, without the BP. 2)We didn't self hammer and deny fluminator or skybird power when the opportunity came and it seems unlikely that we'd survive(this is kinda null though, if we were scum that would be taking the scum team from 3 down to 2, so it might not be something I'd consider worth it), 3) We claimed to have shot at fucking DP of all people. We could have claimed to have shot at anyone, and NOBODY would have been able to say otherwise, because we already know what the tracker/watcher was doing on N1, so unless there are others and they decided to target us, there's way safer targets to say we shot at rather than alienating one of the stronger voices in the town.

I already answered all your 3 reasons and why their BS 1) I really consider the fire vote as a scum utility. and Yes i expect that scum vote to be happen on a scum group member. why? so you can say what your just saying. spescially after considering the other two with this vote town.

2 - we can definitely assume that , the tree stump is not his only power

<<<there is actually no reason to assume that? I fail to see how being an unlimited strongman+unlimited BP means I must have more power?

I have so many reasons for assuming this that I explained in detail in MC group. I feel no need to explain them here or listen to your reasonings about it.

3 - I'm sure there is an agenda that he felt he can claim this today and ask to live for a while (MC party please)

<<WTF? I was pressured into it by being put at L-1 and by having the double voting Sensei say if I didn't claim within 30 minutes he was going to lynch me.

The point is why you claimed your scum role not a fake one.Its clear you want to stay alive for more days. I'm not sure what misery it will bring for town , But I'm certain something fishy is about this.

4 - I won't let scum live

<<I'm not scum, so this doesn't mean anything. Even if I were scum, it's not a point you can add to alist like this because it doesn't mean anything.

As town I need to lynch whoever can flip me. you can flip me so your scum and you can't win with me.

5 - tree stumping has basically no difference from killing - only that the person is free to talk.

<<<Yes, you are correct. Why is this relevant?

That your a treat in the view of town members and you need to die

-Cerb

1) You didn't answer very well. Why is the fire vote something to scumread me for, but something to townread others for? Why would I mention the possibility of the fire vote being used by scum to buy town cred/get themselves MC, with regards to yosarian, and then USE the ploy I brough to the attention of the town literally a thousand posts before you mentioned it? You didn't answer the other points at all as far as i can tell.

2) Okay, evasion. This is just stupid tunnel vision playing by rote crap, the same thing DP is doing. The only person who is actually *thinking* on our wagon is Yosarian.

3) Understood. So this is a useless point, like the 2 below. It's not actually an argument that I'm scum.

4/5) Do you lynch town vigs automatically? Because everything you're saying about us, applies to a town vig. If I had claimed this exact same role, except lied and said I was town, and maybe added some fluff like "When I stump someone with a vig shot, I gain a bulletproof," would you lynch that slot? Do you see my point?

oh I forgot to comment about 2 and 3 in spoiler thing

2 ) as you said its null though

3 ) so ? being honest about night targets is making people town these days?!

True, 2 is null. It's not a matter of being honest about night targets...it's the fact that there is no benefit to scum!me in claiming to have targeted DP. I could have claimed to have targeted someone unflipped but widely scumread by the people on my wagon. THAT would have been the optimal person to claim, because claiming I targeted actual scum(which I could have done, because the friggin mod confirmed that a stump+kill on the same target results in the targets death, and which we ALMOST did) would have seemed too "perfect".

The only thing in your 5 points that's actually relevant is #1, so I'm just waiting for you to address my counterpoints.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Mollie! i went looking through the ISO for you, and found things that surprised me actually.

2951: Titus includes herself on a list of "conftown" including Drixx, R&L's names, and Lowkey's name.

4725: you mentioned you have a "confirmable role"

4739: you say we have a confirmable town role. that's closer to saying you're mod confirmed town, but it's not actually saying that, or at least it's certainly not clear. If this is what you were referring to, then I must say I read it as you just saying you had a confirmable role.

4758: you say town confirmable again.

So, you say you have a confirmable town role. You never say you will be mod confirmed town/IC at a certain point. I didn't read *any* of this as actually saying you could become mod confirmed town on the first time through though, so all I can really say is sorry, be clearer with what you're saying? I mean, Yosarian grilled you about being specific and clearing this up for like 5 pages and nobody spoke up to clear it up, so it was obviously *NOT* something anyone caught. It isn't until D2 that you say anything more explicit about being mod confirmed town.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Cerb: even if you are 100% telling the truth, you are still a threat to the town and to the town win condition. You could very well kill us all and win as a SK, by your own admission. Any attempt to contain you is risky and imperfect for us and prone to eventually fail, and you know it.

Now if there was someone else I was almost sure was mafia then maybe I'd lynch them before you, but let's be clear here; the town is better off if you are dead.

But why would I do that Yosarian? Assuming I am 100% telling the truth, that is only possible if we end up in a 3p situation going into the night phase, and scum shoot town and I shoot scum, or we shoot one another, or whatever. Like, that whole scenario is ONLY a risk in super late game, which I have NO chance of being part of. It's purely a paranoia lynch at this point, NOT a logical lynch. Scum HAVE to lynch me in 3p lylo, so we couldn't end up in a situation where they'd move to lynch the last townie over me. AND every single suggestion I've made has included the caveat that I be lynched after we get 2 scum and the game isnt over, or when we hit 7p alive, whichever comes first. Hell, 8 people alive, since we're at 14, and that means 3 day/night cycles without extra kills and allows for an extra kill to happen on the third day and not result in a town loss if I were lying.

-Cerb

mollie: are you going to answer my questions?

This is all total BS, for two separate reasons.

1. "Lynch me when you get to 7 players alive" is obvious nonsense, because we clearly can't lynch if we get to lynch or lose.

2. If you get to a 3 player lylo, then the most likely result is you win and everyone dies, because you're bulletproof and have a nightkill. Probably a no-lynch happens, you kill the last townie, and it doesn't matter what the scum does; and then you and the last scum face off and you win. Just like how the bulletproof SK generally wins lynch or lose situations. Only way the town could stop you at that point would be by lynching you and letting the mafia win.

Really, the town only has 2 decent choices here. Lynch you today, right now, and eliminate the threat you pose to the town, or let you live for the rest of the game and just hope that somehow things turn out OK. That second option is especially dicey because you're bulletproof, so if we don't lynch you right now, you probably do survive until the end of the game. All your talk about "containing you" and "oh if I do something wrong you can lynch me then" or whatever is just that, talk; none of it is likely to work for the town, and again I'm pretty sure you know that.

Yosarian, how is the 7 players alive thing nonsense? We have a SK and 2 scum flips. Do you think there are 3 scum AND me remaining? It's far more likely that there are *2* scum and me remaining. If there are 2 scum, and me, then in order to ensure that I'm not groupscum hiding behind this claim, you lynch me at 7 people, and you have successfully passed LYLO #1. If you seriously think there are 3 scum plus me left, then sure, the same things apply, you just lynch us at 9 players instead of 7. There is nothing nonsensical about it.

And yes, of course the most likely result in a 3p lylo is I win, EXCEPT WHY WOULD SCUM EVER LET ME LIVE KNOWING IF I LIVE THEY LOSE?? I've made my claim, whoever the last townie remaining is gets to choose between either lynching the other person, or lynching me, the suspicious person who claimed 3p ages ago.

Obviously they lynch me, and scum vote with them, and they get endgamed.

So, yeah, 3p lylo is not something I want, because I never actually live through that in the current game state or any foreseeable future game states. The whole point is moot though, because I'm telling you to friggin kill us before we get to that point.

Here is what I want to see happen:

Over the next 2-3 day/night phases, we lynch 2 scum/you let me shoot 2 scum(14-6=8 still alive), the game ends, and we all get to win.

If that doesn't happen, on the 3rd or 4th day, or if the game doesn't end after we've caught the second scum, YOU LYNCH ME AND KILL ME.

Obviously the entire plan is wholly self serving, but it doesn't hurt you. It just gives us a chance to actually win, instead of losing as a penalty for claiming honestly.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh, and your other paragraph, that juxtaposes those two possibilities as the only ones? Yeah, it's wrong, because you can fucking lynch me anytime you want prior to/at lylo. How are you not understanding that Yosarian? I understand that you think if you don't lynch me now, we'll no longer be "on the table" as a lynch because everyone will resign themselves to just letting us live, but that's extremely unlikely to happen, especially with DP who is never going to die remaining in the game. They will be there yelling at people to lynch us as soon as there appears to be the slightest chance that keeping us alive will hurt town.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Let me make this perfectly clear Yosarian: I understand that town has to lynch me before end game. That is absolutely the correct play to make. All I want is the chance to actually win the game with you BEFORE we get to the situation where I have to be lynched. It's not impossible for the game to end in a town victory either tonight if you let me shoot nad choose wisely, or tomorrow if we lynch wisely.


Also, thanks Varsoon. So, yeah, we can quite literally have zulfy shut off my vote, I can vote to confirm that his ability worked on me, and then have him use his power to shut off my stumping for the night. The risks there are 1) that he's scum, which is as likely as Sensei/R&L being scum, or 2) that I have an activated ascetic power of some sort that I can use *after* he uses the vote power. So, to avoid that second scenario, he can target me with both powers in the same post, and then if I can vote after that, it means I've protected myself and the powers didn't work. If I can't vote, it means they did work and I'm blocked for tonight.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Yosarian, DP, R&L: If lynching me was off the table, who do you guys lynch today and why?

Question goes out to everyone, but obviously I'm trying to convince the people who are voting for me to stop it.

-Cerb

pedit: Why would the townie EVER BELIEVE ME OVER THE SCUM???????? It doesn't make any sense, and it will be obvious to all the involved parties that a lynch needs to happen. The 3p scenario is still immaterial though, because I won't ever live that long.

Did you miss the part where I said we could go to 8 instead? That actually accounts for an extra kill. How about 10? Why would you NOT just lynch me if pieces of the puzzle that keeps me chained start to die?

The scenario you're positing to force a sense of urgency into our lynch requires that town all go simultaneously brain dead. If the roleblockers that are containing me die, LYNCH ME. How hard is that?

Drixx: My role specifies that I must kill everyone who has access to a killing ability as a function of their role or faction. Techniques do not count. I don't know if Varsoon can actually answer that question satisfactorily without confirming me.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

DP: Town doesn't get a whole lot. They potentially end the game a lynch earlier, but if it gets to the point where you have to lynch me anyways, that is null, it just changes when the lynch happens. They get the option to have a strongman kill aimed at whatever they want at any time they choose to use it, and whoever is literally conftown(assuming DP gets to that point/R&L end up flipping and confirming Sensei/Zulfy) gets to tell us where to vote.

They also don't lose a lot. Depending on the method used, they force a suspected scum slot in skybird into roleblocking us(which simultaneously makes us easier to lynch, making it easier to pull off a double lynch so lynching us doesn't actually cost town a lynch), in exchange for not being able to use that roleblock for other actions, or they can just use zulfy's roleblock which can't be used to catch scum anyways, unless scum are down to one member.

Really, seriously, the main thing it does is give us the chance to win with town in the next day phase or two, instead of just dying now and not having any chance to win, for the sake of paranoia.

-Cerb

pedit: Yosarian, I am not fucking anti-town. I am third party. Do not misrepresent me.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Bah, screwed up the quote tags; mod you can delete that last post.

Yosarian, DP, R&L: If lynching me was off the table, who do you guys lynch today and why?

Not interested in helping you sidetrack your lynch, CC.

pedit: Why would the townie EVER BELIEVE ME OVER THE SCUM????????

Townie knows that if he helps the scum lynch you, that's a 100% town loss. If he doesn't, it's probably a 95% likely town loss, but still better then 100%. So he doesn't, because play to win.

It doesn't make any sense, and it will be obvious to all the involved parties that a lynch needs to happen. The 3p scenario is still immaterial though, because I won't ever live that long.[/quote

You keep saying that, but you're bulletproof, and if we don't lynch you today you probably live until the end of the game. I know that, and you know that, and I know you know that.

Did you miss the part where I said we could go to 8 instead? That actually accounts for an extra kill. How about 10? Why would you NOT just lynch me if pieces of the puzzle that keeps me chained start to die?

It makes no sense for the town to wait and lynch you later in any case; it's better to lynch you early then to waste a later lynch on you.

The scenario you're positing to force a sense of urgency into our lynch requires that town all go simultaneously brain dead. If the roleblockers that are containing me die, LYNCH ME. How hard is that?

It might be quite hard, depending on how the game setup has changed. I think the town is much better off just lynching you now. It's safer all around. Plus, no sense tying up a town roleblocker forever anyway.

Yosarian, in the 3p scenario(which we should probably stop talking about because it doesn't matter), there's no reason why the last town would KNOW the other slot was scum. It's far more likely that I'm scum and i've coasted on this claim till the end game through my hypnotoad powers, than that the other slot is scum. At least, that's how I'd expect any town slot to read that situation....

-Cerb

pedit: yes, EXCEPT I CAN ONLY WIN WITH THE TOWN. That's the critical fucking thing. Survivors get auto lynched because when it comes down to lylo, they claim survivor, tell scum to just pile on and they'll join them, and town auto-loses. SK obviously has to kill everyone. Survivor is quite happy letting scum win, and Sk has to make sure nobody else can win. Me? I have to make sure I do my job before town manages to win. That's it. It's only similar to a survivor in that I must be alive at end game.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Actually, let's be real here Yos: Why are you even bothering to engage with me? You seem pretty adamant about lynching me, as do R&L and DP. I'm dumping a buncha time of my life here because you're talking to me, but you're still being just as stubborn as they are.

I'm confused by this. Why are you going to so much trouble to answer me if you're so certain lynching me IMMEDIATELY rather than giving me a chance to win with you is in the towns best interests?

-Cerb

pedit: Shiro, seriously, don't you dare hide behind the flavor claim. Varsoon SAID flavor is not alignment indicative. And how is my claim dodgy? Seriously? What part of it is dodgy?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Should I punch Cerb? Should I kick him in the jaw?

Actually, let's be real here Yos: Why are you even bothering to engage with me? You seem pretty adamant about lynching me, as do R&L and DP. I'm dumping a buncha time of my life here because you're talking to me, but you're still being just as stubborn as they are.

I'm obviously not expecting to convince you that you should be lynched. I'm taking apart your bogus arguments so the rest of the town can also see that.

And, hey, if you actually had a real reason why it's safer to leave you alive then to kill you, I'd be willing to listen. But "you can lynch me later" makes no sense; lynching you later instead of lynching you now doesn't by the town any extra days or any extra lynches, it doesn't increase the town's odds of victory at all, it just creates an extra risk to the town for not much benifit.

My arguments aren't actually bogus though. Your argument amounts to "it's not worth the risk", while mine amounts to "there is no notable extra risk". Because there isn't. It is, of course possible that I have some sort of weird ability to not be roleblocked and thus you won't be able to stop me, but again, as long as I'm dead before that one extra kill matters, it's irrelevant. Town is in such a strong position that this is one of the only situations where they could actually win the game before any risk I might pose could become realized.

Lynching me later instead of now *does* increase the towns odds of victory, in that you do have access to a strongman kill whenever you want now. There is undeniable utility in having access to that.

Actually, let's be real here Yos: Why are you even bothering to engage with me? You seem pretty adamant about lynching me, as do R&L and DP. I'm dumping a buncha time of my life here because you're talking to me, but you're still being just as stubborn as they are.

I'm confused by this. Why are you going to so much trouble to answer me if you're so certain lynching me IMMEDIATELY rather than giving me a chance to win with you is in the towns best interests?

-Cerb

pedit: Shiro, seriously, don't you dare hide behind the flavor claim. Varsoon SAID flavor is not alignment indicative. And how is my claim dodgy? Seriously? What part of it is dodgy?

Lol I have been flavour specing since start of the game. Now it botheres you xD

Dodgy as in it make no sense for you character to want to do what your win con says. I mean So far powers and characters have been pretty aligned.
~Lina

Flavor speccing is fine, but you haven't used flavor spec as a reason to lynch or clear someone yet, except insofar as your actual claimed role tells you someones flavor is town. There's a difference between flavor speccing and seeing how flavor relates to claimed ability, and using the flavor as a reason to assign an alignment to someone.

And yeah, I don't know how my flavor relates to my win con at all, what I've checked out in the wiki doesn't match up at all. *shrug*

-Cerb

pedit: Drixx, you know how long it takes me to establish reads and properly evaluate things. There is no way I'm going to waste my time doing that if it doesn't give me a chance to win. I get the sentiment of leaving a good impression and all that, but it's really not worth such a large chunk of my life. Also, the miller is going ot get rolecopped. That means you'll see they're a miller, and you are thus no longer *obligated* to use a lynch on them.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh, and that first quote, to zulfy: You should stick around and watch and see who would be optimal to ues your powers on. If I'm not getting lynched today, it's *probably* me.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also, umm. At the moment, I think there are just as many people who want to leash me as lynch me.

KC, ZZZX, Drixx are in favor of leashing me.

DP/R&L/Yos are in favor of lynching me. I can't count DGB here because she's just sheeping and hasn't expressed an opinion.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oh, and ABR, he's leaning towards leashing I believe? So yeah. It's just that the people who are doing all the talking plus scumfirevote plus sheep dgb are voting for me.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Scum miller is a thing.

I believe that Yosarian2 scum slipped in the Party PT. I would like votes OFF of TCC temporarily as fast as possible. Do it so the day doesn't get ended prematurely. I will post again when he has satisfied me that it's not a slip, or else the post will out how he slipped and be accompanied by my vote and hopefully a bunch more.

True. Hmm. Yeah, alright, that is a problem. :-/ I can't really figure out how to resolve it.

Also, that is interesting. Didn't ABR also think he had slipped?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I read the whole claim.

Then what did you mean you weren't gut reading him as scum?

Scum is 3rd party/mafia yeah, but I view it as anti-town mafia/3rd party.

I just thought of something that worries me. Why is he 3rd party yet not able to win with scum or SK if they win? His wincon literally is the town wincon with a few extra hoops to jump through. 3rd parties usually have a caveat of being able to win with more than just one faction. His only wins with town and that's it. It's actually a pretty hard wincon to follow through on without there being more to it role or knowledge-wise.

It's easier than a Sk win-con? I mean, if you want to talk about hard win cons. And I can't win with them because they have access to factional kills, which makes them included among my targets.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

So, I just iso'd DGB in context with varsoons VC's She's honestly like, super consistent in what little input she has to say about the game, other than the whole sheeping us and then being willing ot sheep others onto voting us(before we made our claim)

Like, these are my disjointed notes I made reading through it, because I really couldn't find much to really...think about.

252: first reads list:Spifflop, ABR, Drixx, DP, TCC, DS Town, R&LNeutral(leaning town with misgivings), Flum+itlepip scum
390: zzzx is scum for...no reason.
429: second reads list(and the last one I think we ever see): ABR, Drixx, DP, DS, Yosarian Town, R&L neutral, ZZZX, flum, itlepip(for "schmoozing) scum
431: reason for the zzzx scumread is because he accused her of calling him a lurker when her list wasn't just that...umm. Okay.
459: more zzzx is scum
617: lowkey is wishy washy and unimpressive(in response to skybird liking lowkey)
624: MC votes Wicked, aka Zulfy.
625: I was wrong! New reads list! ABR, Drixx, DS, DP, TCC, Yosarian, Cooldog, MP, Wicked town, R&L neutral, ZZZX, flum, itlepip, lowkey and skybird scum, R&L get's voted because everyone else was pushing them at the time.
627: voting null read because sometimes other people are right
629: Flum and Rylai wagons pick up steam
647: skybird bussing flum.
675: R&L v Flum are 4/4
685: moves to fluminator, a scumread.
691: unvotes flum? What? I see one post from him in the middle, dunno how it gavce a reason to unvote.
800: Flum wagons dead, R&L wagon lives on with 4 votes
852 moves to KC
1012: Kc up to 5, R&L wagon is mostly dead.
1120: expresses support of itlepip wagon
1225: flum wagon moves ahead of kc wagon, both small again.
1386: KC is still scum
1450: itlepip and flum wagons are on top
1463: moves to itlepip wagon
1891: DP is not scum
1893: expresses doubt on DS' scumread of Max
1926: Itlepip is the only game in town!
2225: Skybird rockets ahead of itlepip!(from 1 vote to 6 between VC's
2385: skybird 7, itlepip 5
2622: moves back ot KC as she gets votes again
2850: Kc 6, skybird 4, itlepip 4
2854: advises gale to sheep his biggest town read
2900: KC at 8, itlepip and skybird at 3
2984: ZZZX is scum and being unnaturally consistent...
3053: been skippin gmax's posts.
3105: GWS is an excited little townie
3109: says she has a reason to think KC is scum beyond lurking in spite of never actually stating it
3266: Votes sensei
3550: Kc wagon and itlepip are on top, but small
3800: Cooldog up to 6 votes!
4020: disagrees with cooldog wagon
4027: willing to lynch KC, zulfy, skybird, zzzx, itlepip, and flum
4325: cooldog up to 8!
4450: cooldog at 7, MP at 5!
4516: wants to vote zzzx!
4573: GWS asks why she town read him, and she has no idea because of the length of the day.
4639: gets with the double lynch plan(MP)
5037: changes to the other half of the double lynch plan(Cooldog)
D2
5225: KC up to 5 votes rather quickly
5227: Immediately back to klingon
5228: mentions possibly replacing out because they have a passive role and are overwhelemed by the mechanics
5253: Kc to 7!
5550: KC to 4!
VIG!
5680: ABR to 4!
6340: 6th vote on GWS wagon, which formed in response to ABR wagon
6697: Sheeps pirates and us to vote zulfy
6698: wonders why her and zzzx are alive, because they've both been doing nothing.
6827: to zzzx!
7023: still wants zzzx lynched
7030: skybird sheeps zzzx on voting DGB, DGB is even more sure zzzx is scum
7108: sheeps yosarians vote on us because she trusts him

Like. Looking through that mess of stuff, the only thing that's even slightly scummy is liking GWS, but she didn't exactly leap to defend him at any ponit. It really does seem like she just has no fucking idea what's going on in the game and is just popping in.

DGB: Why are you so sure KC is scum? You never really specified. It may have been a case you sheeped someone else on or something, but there's nothing in your ISO that actually explains it what I noticed. Same with ZZZX, other than the "unnaturally consistent" thing and him objecting to falling under the lurkers etc. category in your reads list.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Oooh, actually, I just had a thought! Since I realized the idea of having skybird RB us is meh if you don't think she's town(which pretty much nobody should think), How about on the nights when you don't want us to shoot anyone, we attempt to shoot skybird, and skybird roleblocks us. If anyone gets stumped other than her, then you know we betrayed you and lynch us, and it ensures she doesn't use her roleblock to stop anything else that's going on unless she wants to die herself.

That's if you don't trust skybird only, ofc.

-Cerb

pedit:

That leaves us to wonder about Zulfy.

Wasn't there a plan to have Skybird block him tonight?

There was a suggestion that skybird block me? I think it would be better if zulfy does it because it's testable then, just a superior play.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also, DGB, what ever happened to the flum scum read? and why were you scumreading itlepip again? Too much "schmoozing?" Do you have any recollection of what you meant?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Ok, Cerb needs to die. No ifs ands or buts.

Right now, we have a Gamestate where we want low as fuck kpn. Sensai and I cannot be killed (speaking of which more Sensai MC votes people). This forces the scum to kill Zulfy or ABR. Scum must start murdering conftown or they will lose. They cannot afford a bus as long as Myself, Sensai and Zulfy are alive. Having a wagon with resistance at this time is highly indicative that TCC is scum or provides scum a huge benefit.

Increasing KPN (although it reduces the time till we innocent child) is bad for town. Doubly so if we do it for information. TCC is not a "town controlled kill". He's not a vig. Town doesn't want death. Scum does.

We have 14 alive. If we have 1 kpn and 3 scum remaining, that's 3 mislynches in a row scum would have to get. That's unlikely. Doubly so with a high number of confirmed town.

If we have two kpn and three scum left alive, scum need only two mislynches before lylo. Plus, if anyone hints at being vig, they die and not scum (as Cerb has to keep up appearances).

What's my rule? Count the bodies.

Cerb dies.

~Titus

I agree that they need to die, but not just yet.

As 3rd Party they can help us find & eliminate the remaining Scum. We can always lynch them later in the game.

No. No. No.

You don't get to bitch slap on Mollie being the active head and dismiss what I am saying so easily. You've built me up and used me as a shield, far after I have told you your theory about third parties is a load of fucking hogwash.

You're not aggressively going after your scumreads or doing anything useful lately.
Your wagon composition has the same players as Gale's lynch.

Today coming in, you were my preferred fucking lynch because

confirming your alignment says a shitton about D1 and D2.

I am not townreading you anymore.

So no, drop the pretense. Drop the we lynch Cerb later. He dies today.

The wheels are off. Shape up or die.

It is mindboggling how true the bolded statement is. Just look at the wagon bits within the DGB notes. Like...so much KC based movement.

Also, hello Titus. Are you still going on about how me increasing KPN means I have to die, or do you have a different reason now?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Actually, ya know what, fuck it. Can you just kill us tomorrow? Seriously? So at least I don't feel like I didn't fucking waste all this time trying to talk you out of lynching us? *shrug* If I manage to find you scum today, maybe you'll let me live through tomorrow too, but fuck it, I just don't want to get killed out of hand after wasting my day at work goin gback and forth with people about all of this.

-Cerb

pedit: See, fluminator, it's that line of thought that would make town *lose* in that situation. Town couldn't afford the resources in that sort of desperate situation you're envisioning. In this one though, they certainly can. Also, there's NO resource cost if you consider the fact that the ONLY risk there is would be a single stumping, and then us getting lynched as we've proven ourselves untrustworthy. All the talk I've done of how to control us is basically along the lines of "Shit you can do if you really want ot feel completely safe and don't trust us." None of it is necessary. We're not going to stump anything without your direction because doing so would be suicidal.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

What resources other than discussion are you considering using? It's not even compulsive. There's no need to RB them because if they get out of line, we instalynch them and they know it.

Hell, even if it WERE compulsive, we could target the MC every day and just auto fail every time. Being compulsive isn't even a barrier to leashing us this game.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Would you stump Skybird?

I would stump whoever the town wanted me to stump, if they wanted me to stump someone. She's absolutely within the names wgeurts was interested in lynching today.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Sure.

Each night I may submit a target. That target will be treestumped. Normal kill protection does not stop this stumping from happening.
I may not be killed during the day or the night, but I may still be stumped/lynched/otherwise removed from the game.

So, Unlimited strongman stumping and unlimited super bulletproof, as in, immune to all killing effects, so delayed kills and bombs and such wouldn't work on me either, but vulnerable to strongman or adventuring party focus fire.

-Cerb

pedit: mollie, are you saying you're willing to lynch either klingon OR ourselves today, and DGB is next on the list? Or do you mean you want to lynch us before ANYONE else, and KC/DGB are tied for second?

[The Cool Cucumbers]

It's like a mirror to Diamond's role right?
You're kill-proof, Diamond is lynch-proof.
You stump people (remove them without killing), Diamond killed people.
Diamond is ascetic. What's your counterpart?

Probably the fact that our kills were strongman kills, and his weren't.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

And you have to take out everyone who potentially has a kill in their role? What would have happened if Sky got the day vig instead of Pip?

Not potentially. It's everyone who currently has access to a killing ability as a result of their role/faction. So, Sky would have been the one to shoot in that scenario. I'm not sure if Spifflops role would have counted against us, if he wasn't currently in his transformation. I KNOW Cooldogs role wouldn't have counted against us, if he had gained access to it.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Sure.

Each night I may submit a target. That target will be treestumped. Normal kill protection does not stop this stumping from happening.
I may not be killed during the day or the night, but I may still be stumped/lynched/otherwise removed from the game.

So, Unlimited strongman stumping and unlimited super bulletproof, as in, immune to all killing effects, so delayed kills and bombs and such wouldn't work on me either, but vulnerable to strongman or adventuring party focus fire.

-Cerb

pedit: mollie, are you saying you're willing to lynch either klingon OR ourselves today, and DGB is next on the list? Or do you mean you want to lynch us before ANYONE else, and KC/DGB are tied for second?

1. you aren't telling the truth here. you targeted us n1 and whoa lo and behold we really ARE BP JUST LIKE WE SAID!!! DID I MENTION WE ARE CONFIRMABLE AND WE ARE LIKE A COCKROACH????

2. I wanna lynch klingon and titus is nearly sold on it. klingon really doesn't want to unleash the kracken.

3. nope I am off my crack induced paranoia of dgb cos both yoyo and abr vouch for her and the early town feels (1 of the few reads titus and I agreed on) and if that was not enough she is killing what I am killing and she knows exactly where I got that from. plus i feel like I can hear her brainwaves in "GOD CAN THIS DAY END ALREADY" altho I MIGHT be picking up on some "MOLLIE GOD SHUT UP" but I am ignoring that part. I am pretending there is noise interference or something.

game needs levity and i think gogurts gets that which is the only thing appealing about keeping your hydra around but no you need death.

1) There was also a 5 fucking shot roleblocker around on N1. You surviving doesn't mean anything.
2) Got it. I need to read up on KC.
3) Cool. For what it's worth, My reread of DGB's ISO left me feeling like she's just lost more than anything else. Lack of experience with the player means I don't know if that's normal for her or anything, but she doesn't feel like a priority lynch anymore.

-Cerb

pedit: Exactly flum. Techniques aren't a problem.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

And you have to take out everyone who potentially has a kill in their role? What would have happened if Sky got the day vig instead of Pip?

Not potentially. It's everyone who currently has access to a killing ability as a result of their role/faction. So, Sky would have been the one to shoot in that scenario.

I'm not sure if Spifflops role would have counted against us, if he wasn't currently in his transformation.

I KNOW Cooldogs role wouldn't have counted against us, if he had gained access to it.

-Cerb

I'd be surprised you didn't already ask Varsoon how Red would have fit into your win condition if you're not sure how it would have worked, since it's a pretty important thing to know how those types of roles would fit in. If I had the role your describing, I would have 100% asked right away when he flipped.
I'm going to be blunt, I don't believe you're being fully honest about your win condition.

I did ask Varsoon, but I missed a nuance of the question. He said that yes, I would have to kill red, but I did not ask if I would have to kill red if red were UNABLE to turn into alkaizer. Say red always had one vote on him, or say he had broken his post restriction. I did not ask if I would have to kill him still in those events.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

1) There was also a 5 fucking shot roleblocker around on N1. You surviving doesn't mean anything.
2) Got it. I need to read up on KC.
3) Cool. For what it's worth, My reread of DGB's ISO left me feeling like she's just lost more than anything else. Lack of experience with the player means I don't know if that's normal for her or anything, but she doesn't feel like a priority lynch anymore.

-Cerb

pedit: Exactly flum. Techniques aren't a problem.

1. pretty sure strongman bypasses role blockers!
2. you shld do that
3. I am leaving her alone!

1) I believe you are wrong about 1. Strongmen bypass protections only, don't they? If the slot is blocked, the action does not take effect. Also, in any case, my role specifically says that normal kill protection does not stop the kill from happening. So it's possible strongmen bypass roleblocks(which would be news to me) but my particular power only bypasses protections, as specified in my role pm.
2) I'm doing taxes for my whole fucking family because nobody else is capable, so I'll try to, but I'm not certain I'll be able to do it tonight. Just DGB took way longer than i thought it would and she basically has no content at all.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

For future reference though, and since there is a technique for gaining a strongman kill in this game:

@Varsoon: Do 'strongman' kills work even when the slot making the kill is roleblocked?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Interesting. Well, it seems I was wrong then. I always equated strongman as being vulnerable to roleblocks. If you check my lengthy version of my role claim though, I did always say that my kill could not be stopped by normal protection methods, and started shorthanding it to strongman recently, because I thought they were the same thing.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Taking a break from keeping up with this and doing the tax stuff. Thanks for at least talking with me mollie and flum.

Flum, I don't really know what else there is for me to say about my role. It is what it is.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Yosarian that's crumpets. If we shoot tonight you just lynch us then instead of now, we cannot win with one kill.
There will be no "oops", as if we do you simply lynch us. Period
¬wgeurts

[The Cool Cucumbers]

And we definitely don't go through roleblocks, we were blocked night 1.
Also to everyone that ignore the people they want dead, I absolutely despise that aspect of your play. This isn't just me saying this as a third-party, it harms everyone.

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Stop with the fearmongering yosarian. You KNOW it's suicide for us to take a shot without approval, so why do you keep suggesting we would? That would be blatantly playing against our win con. Deliberately taking an action which will result in our immediate death is not exactly the best way to win with our role.

Also, skybird, you just voted because of a complete misunderstanding of our actual role. How can anyone even consider going along with this crap when it's being helped along by blatant misinterpretation of our abilities?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Sure, maybe you'll be cautious and wait until the town can't afford to kill you to go on a killing spree. It's possible. But either way, you are going to be playing counter to the town win condition. You don't even want the town to win "too soon" and will be working to sabatoge that, both at night and during the day.

Just like you have all game.

What the hell have we done that's been playing counter to the towns win condition? I also already told you to just fucking kill us before "town can't afford to". Town is so fucking far ahead you have TIME to just win the game long before we'd be considered a threat, and you're just trying to ram this through when it does NOTHING to help you win, all it fucking does is ease your mind and remove utility.

As far as not wanting the town to win too soon: I am pretty damn sure there are no vigs left. If there are indeed vigs left, then we're going to lose no matter what at this point. Living, not shooting, and hoping there are no vigs left gives us a chance at winning. Getting lynched right now, or getting lynched for taking a shot we weren't supposed to, gives us no chance of winning.

It should be pretty obvious what path we're going to take.

mollie: you said you are usually pro indies but didn't answer me when I asked why you were so anti indies this time. Mind answering that?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Yosarian that's crumpets. If we shoot tonight you just lynch us then instead of now, we cannot win with one kill.
There will be no "oops", as if we do you simply lynch us. Period
¬wgeurts

You really telling me that you wouldn't try if you decided there was a vig left and you were pretty sure you knew who it was? Or maybe if you thought you could kill someone you think is a scum and maybe get some town cred?

I don't see any reason to trust that you'll hold your fire. I expect you to act towards your win condition, and then talk your way out of it later.

If we try; we die.
No, I'd hope for scum to kill the vig off by accident. It's a really slim chance of winning but it's better than being dead.

This is acting to our win-condition.
Being dead is an automatic loss for us. So any slim chance of victory is playing to our win-condition.

Hydra pickup.

Also skybird check drixx's friggin iso. He linked to a VARSOON game where he had a 3p that won with town from not long ago, and an even more recent dramonic game with a 3p with a variable win con, depending on which faction targeted him first.

There are two flips right there, one from this moderator if you care about that sort of thing, of 3p that can win with town.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Also, I'm not going to be able to sit here and spar with people all day long like yesterday, I have a greater workload planned. Just don't expect swift answers to anything until I get home from work.

Before I go, let me say this one last time: If you do not believe our claim, and have reasons for doing so which you have actually expressed to me, and I have not addressed....then lynch us. If you do believe our claim, it doesn't make any sense to lynch us.

And in both of those situations, it doesn't *hurt* in any way to give us the chance to catch scum today and tomorrow without shooting and just win when you do.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

I think the odds of us "controlling their stump" are low. I think if we try, tommorow they'll have killed someone else and they'll say "lol I thought that guy was scum" or "Ok ok but that was the last vig so I'll be good from now on i swear" or whatever and then people will probably let them go again anyway.

Look at the post directly below yours, man. That's far worse than tcc. I think it's worth it to let them slip up if they want to and in the meantime, let the possibility of them helping us weigh on their shoulders. We can get a lynch I feel is more likely to hit scum until that time.

hindu, you do realize that they claimed strongman who targeted us? they are lying.

This is not true. I claimed to have a kill that was not stopped by normal protection means.

I clearly stated I thought that was the entirety of what strongman entailed, and thus shortened my reference to said claim in the future as a strongman kill.

One sec, I'll grab my original claim so you can see that I clearly said the kill could not be stopped by normal protection means, not that it was a strongman kill.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Okay, I'm back. Sorry wgeurts if claiming honestly gets us killed here.

We are Lord Orlouge, third party.

We win when all of the roles which started the game with access to a killing ability, whether factional or on their role card(so not techniques, though I do need to ask Varsoon whether or not someone having access to a killing *technique* on their role card counts. I wasn't really thinking about that particular nuance until Zulfy claimed to have all fist techniques) are removed from the game, either via stumping, lynch, kill, or any other means. So, we want to kill all the same people town does, but we also needed to remove town vigilantes. If the scum team+Sk are removed from the game before we stop all the vigs, we will be end-gamed. If all the vigs are gone when the scum team+sk are removed, we win along with town. Varsoon said he viewed us and DS' role(after DS flipped and we were freaking out about how close he was to being completely unkillable) as opposites. DS was unlynchable and untrackable and wanted to kill everyone and thus couldn't win with anyone, and we're unkilllable and want to stop all the killing without silencing anyone, and can win with the town.

We may stump one target per night. Our stump is not affected by bulletproof or regular protections.

We are bulletproof, unlimited. Strongman/adventuring party focused fire still kills us.

N1: We attempted to stump DP. Their claim of unlimited BP+unkillable later on made a strong smoke screen to ensure that if they were scum, their late game survival wouldn't be questioned in spite of the strength of the players in the slot, so we felt there was a good chance they might indeed be scum, and felt that even if they weren't, in the worst case scenario we were ensuring that the voices of two of the strongest players in this game wouldn't be silenced.

They did not get stumped. I assume we were roleblocked by MP, but I have no idea.

N2: We stumped itlepip(sorry pip). Shooting a SK doesn't make you town, his flip would, if scum, help to resolve skybird, and if he was town, we had to remove him at some point in order to win. That's the reason why I tried to encourage him to stay engaged in the game. Being turned into a "less than VT" sucks, but there's no reason why you can't engage in the game as much as a VT does and still help guide your team to victory.

Anyways, at this point it seems very unlikely that there are any town vigs left. Town has lost 3 multi-shot vigs, plus the game itself has additional vig granting powers? I mean, there might be, I guess, but it doesn't seem necessary as far as ensuring town has the means to guarantee bad MC's get killed if they want to kill them.

We are and have been playing the entire game fucking hunting scum. We need them to all die to win, period. There has been no point in this entire game where we *weren't* hunting for scum, because our fucking win con INCLUDES your own. We just get to lose if we don't handle our stuff before endgame. So yes, you can now leash our stumps and we can all win together and go dancing off into the sunset of Facinaturu. Or you can policy lynch us because that's what you do to 3p automatically. Up to you guys.

I'm not going to be doing massive reads stuff tonight at this point. The whole point of rushing to do that would have been to *not* have to claim and risk getting policy lynched. I figure no matter how much scumhunting I do or how successful I may be at this point, it all just comes down to whether or not the town wants to believe me or not, and then if they DO believe me, whether or not they'll just autolynch us. Nothing I can do about that, and I'm not going to let this interrupt my evening anymore than it already has when we have over 10 days left in the phase and I am MUCH less busy this week than I have been lately.

Oh, and I guess if you care about that kinda thing, wgeurts crumbed cop on D1 in some post where he said "Cut it out" and talked about how ABR was certainly going to be investigated that night, in an attempt to draw a scum NK to us. I haven't crumbed anything because I don't like crumbs.

I guess if you decide to leave us alive and let us catch scum zzzx can rolecop us to confirm what I've said to those who believe he's town at least.

-Cerb

pedit: meh, the dgb vote and such made me want to not claim, but whatever. We're going to have to claim at some point unless we lynch scum today and wgeurts and myself manage to shoot scum tonight as well. Oh, yeah, there are probably only 4 scum total, cause SK wants to kill everyone, and we actively wanted to ensure the death of 3 town slots, who are all dead now. 5 scum seems a bit much with two additional 3p kills.

I did NOT say we were strongman until later on, when I started using it shorthand because I didn't realize strongman included immunity to roleblocks.

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Is that seriously the only reason why you don't believe us mollie? Because you thought we were claiming to be a strongman who got roleblocked? Or did you have other reasons for not believing our claim?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Hi Shiro. Sorry things went that way and hopefully you'll have enough time to invest in the game now that you're solo.

So, umm, wanna unvote me now so I don't have to be constantly wondering if KC/Sensei are gonna get bored and just lolhammer me? :-/ Since, ya know, you did say you weren't 100% on lynching us today?

DP, what are your thoughts on Skybird?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

@Varsoon: Does the fist technique that doubles votes on a target double all current votes as well, or just all future votes?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

@Varsoon: Does the fist technique that doubles votes on a target double all current votes as well, or just all future votes?

-Cerb

BABEL CRUMBLE causes all votes on a player to become double votes--this applies to all votes currently made against a player and any votes made after the use of BABEL CRUMBLE. This effect ends at the end of the day phase.

Does a double vote then become a quad vote? That is, does it modify each individual vote placed and make it a double vote, or does it change the vote of every slot casting a vote, into a double vote?

-Cerb

[The Cool Cucumbers]

Why did your hydra suspect I was liza?

We both did, I do not kow I remember something about masons between you and sensei being told. I thought it was a crump

The masons thing was ABR saying something about zulfy being senseis mason buddy.

Sensei said, earlier in D1 when the idea of lynching zulfy was brought up, that he shouldn't be lynched, with a lot of certainty.

I misinterpreted ABR's comment to mean that at some point Zulfy had previously hard claimed liza.

Sensei did not give a reason for why he was so certain zulfy was town at that time, nor did ABR say why he made his comment, so the only reason in thread as far as I can tell was sensei's comment about zulfy being town/shouldn't be lynched/something along those lines.

None of those things, however, were said BY Zulfy's slot. Actual crumbs didn't occur until post 6k+ I believe, well into D2. And long after you guys had declared the names that you knew were town.

-Cerb