Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[Reformed Toxic Player]

first VOTE: datisi

[Reformed Toxic Player]

VOTE: RTP

Don't believe you.

Also, what's a friendly neighbor?

thats me

[Reformed Toxic Player]

VOTE: elements

town

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Lotus is that a random vote?

town

[Reformed Toxic Player]

So many familiar faces. This should be fun.

VOTE: VP Baltar

scum

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Im actually informed of a player at this player being town

[Reformed Toxic Player]

At this table**

[Reformed Toxic Player]

VOTE: RLotus for randomly voting.

also town

[Reformed Toxic Player]

VOTE: RLotus for randomly voting.

also town

this serious?

Very.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

normally by this point I'd have a pretty solid read list but I only know three of your so that ain't gonna happen this time

You'd typically have a solid reads list by page 2?

yep, I have good gut reads

I’m a believer. Found me and my scum buddies on day one in Mini theme 2162. Still don’t know how you did that. It was great!

Hey i found u as scum d1 too in chosen maf 799

[Reformed Toxic Player]

lol

rtp, would you be so kind?

their vibes

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I also purposefully avoided answering that question at first to see how you would react. I see it was important to you, duly noted.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I also purposefully avoided answering that question at first to see how you would react. I see it was important to you, duly noted.

Means it will be important why out of all the slots i asked about u asked me about that one if down the line either of you flip

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Hey i found u as scum d1 too in chosen maf 799

Oh yeah, which one were you? I had a lot of people on that quick wagon, lol.

Had elements played with you or your scum buddies before that game?

I don’t know about my partners, but he never played with me.

I was the one who was most sure ;P

[Reformed Toxic Player]

nah he just got meme hammered and then partner carried all the way to 3 way and won

[Reformed Toxic Player]

good morning i just slept like 12 hours please help

[Reformed Toxic Player]

early good vibes on green crayons and testarossa. i like their vibes around poking harumi, and i also like testa's 71 for some reason, despite not really agreeing with it.

disagree - latching onto what is most obviously bad logic does not a town player make. its an easy play to attach oneself as scum and should be discarded as NAI.

its something i myself as scum would see and latch onto early on for towncred, as to why i reached that conclusion. I myself wanted to see how they play out wrt their sorting between elements/I considering the similarities and then later down the line question them about it.



What is your take on Elements Datisi?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I pushed and got testa MLed when we were both town once because they were very fluffy in posting. Over thinking is just their playstyle afaik.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Harumi is a slot that will be useful in evaluating other slots for me based on their play thus far, so I'm taking a hands off approach for now with them.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Harumi is a slot that will be useful in evaluating other slots for me based on their play thus far, so I'm taking a hands off approach for now with them.

Would they still be useful for evaluating other slots if they are town? I'm not sure if you're talking about a spew-angle here, or a sitting duck/low hanging fruit angle.

Both!

[Reformed Toxic Player]

harumi can u give me like a sorta vibes list you have for each slot so far?

thanks

[Reformed Toxic Player]

GC town

[Reformed Toxic Player]

GC is cagey abt their reads and acknowledges fault imo that leans towny mindset.
I dont have a take on duchess rn.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Is GC bad at baseball?

Yes. He struck out the first time he went to the plate.

So GC is bad at baseball bc he struck out the first time you went to bat?


Trying to shade me for linking the yes/no longer to the immediately following observation, that I’m twisting words, is just so scummy.

Trying to shade me for connecting the

[Reformed Toxic Player]

He isn't being cagey about his reads in that post. He is using a metaphor to explain his viewpoint

those were 2 separate points.
you just assumed they were one and the same.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

also in case it isnt clear, im happy where my vote is rn.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

ok maybe i used bad word choice when saying reads but they still come off as cagey.

do u have a scumread on them or smthing?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

and rn im looking between andres/datisi for most likely scum.

theres a reason i think pearl fey is town but i wanna wait to reveal it to see if that wagon builds cuz i wanna see game state before i out it cuz i think its relatively strong of a reason to townread them.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

duchess whats your take on Datisi?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

theres a reason i think pearl fey is town but i wanna wait to reveal it to see if that wagon builds cuz i wanna see game state before i out it cuz i think its relatively strong of a reason to townread them.

I'm sorry, who is pearl fey?

harumi

[Reformed Toxic Player]

do you wanna say anything about it?

@rtp, i don't like being ignored.

I think you're a bit too complacent + just ur energy feels off from when I have seen you as town.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

duchess whats your take on Datisi?

I don't have any strong feelings about his alignment right now. He seems very focused on gameplay.

you can give a little more than that

cmon I believe in you.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i can only imagine if duchess and datisi are scumpartners how furiously datisi is typing to duchess in scumchat to stop spewing him

[Reformed Toxic Player]

but tbh - much more confident on this. i feel a sort of fake assertiveness in the way they are questioning things thats characteristic often of scumplay, where you want to appear to be solving/poking + I wanna crank the pressure up here a bit. VOTE: duchess

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I have a response to GC in the works but I have to step away from the keyboard for now. I'm looking forward to what you've got, RTP.

Who are your top scumreads right now?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

If it makes you feel better I'd be willing to quickhammer someone.

Who would you be willing to quickhammer?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

sorry had like lunar's iso open in a tab and like i went back to it and i was like .mmmmm doesnt sit right with me but i didnt wanna detract from my push on duchess LOL

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Bring the smoke then, a vote puts about as much pressure on me as the bottom of a puddle.

Are you usually this combative as town? Or is this game pissing you off?

You call that combative?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Yall townread duchess?

Also getting drunk tonite gonna be fun (:

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Italiano whats ur read on ppl piling onto u r,?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

who still fos's harumi here?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

who still fos's harumi here?

Me

I think they hard towntold on top of what ive noticed with my initial pings of them with the tell i had mentioned - what makes you scumread them still?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

hey lunar.

was wondering if you had anymore like concrete thoughts and reasoning for your reads?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Because they haven't posted

A few players here have played with me actually - I’m a bit of a slow starter, generally speaking.

not this slow tho

[Reformed Toxic Player]

@rtp, i am correct to assume that you're getting to my 205, right? also interested in hearing why harumi is town.

ur whole energy is complacent - its not just 1 post its the way u present urself.

i cant just quote 1 post - its the whole collection of them that screams it to me.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

VP - where did your townread on Andres come from?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I have never had that experience of sorting andres where I sort him as town that quickly + I don't see where you pulled the townread from based on the postings.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

so it put him as more towny than any other player here?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I don't think that it matters how he labels it - he can just as easily say that as scum to be defending a mafia partner (duchess) since he is not really pushing within those rn, as their vote went on elements.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

RTP, what do you think of Harumi's readslist? And are you able to share what your towntell was about earlier?

i honestly do not feel i will be much trusting harumi for reads rather than just a town mindset - but the tell I had noticed was they were clueless. Like overtly clueless. With newer/not as skilled/assertive players, coming off as brazenly clueless is a towntell.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

so it put him as more towny than any other player here?

Yeah, for me personally. It was the first thing that I felt quite townie about.

GC also felt a bit townie, but the aggression on both sides of that dispute makes me suspicious.

Do you think there is someone here who is very clearly obv town?

me

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i actually havent been trying it just is natural for me

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i think your thought process there is flawed lol no need to be purposefully contrarian.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

who are ur top scum reads lunar?

i was speccing a game of yours recently where you hammered correctly in lylo - congrats.

i wanna see what you think, lets collab

[Reformed Toxic Player]

what makes u locktown those 3 specifically?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Elements, RTP, and Lunar are the only players who have given unexplained reads (though yes I see some explanations once pressed). Did I kiss anyone else with this style of play in this game?

would you rather I say its gut?
because thats all it is mostly if i dont explain it.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

RTP you got prior games you want to own up to?

Withholding the identity of my main for now.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Why do I feel like town to you?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

hot take but the top 3 wagons here are TvTvT

[Reformed Toxic Player]

italiano who would you vote for if you had to vote somewhere?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

also, to datisi, can you elaborate why you think italiano is still scum here since you had voted him? What has specifically not been different or was the original conviction strong enough that you dont think their recent postings aren't better here for you?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

hello

@duchess 196

@rtp 205

VOTE: italiano

goodbye

specifically from this point, what have you learned thus far from your push on italiano? has it clarified your read on them/the state around them? interested in your thoughts on this.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

italiano who would you vote for if you had to vote somewhere?

Let me read back over the game tomorrow and I’ll let you know.

Okay I eagerly await your thoughts.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

rtp, why are you asking me that when you still refuse to work with me?

I'm not sure where I'm refusing to work with you.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I don't think its unreasonable for me to ask what your progression on a slot has been.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

rtp, why are you asking me that when you still refuse to work with me?

I'm not sure where I'm refusing to work with you.

when i asked you to explain like, what about my posting or whatever is making you so sure i'm scum, you keep handwaving it as vibe, can't fully explain it, when i feel like in the past you've been perfectly able to explain why you found me suspicious when you did?

i don't think asking for my progression on a slot is unreasonable in of itself, but coupled with the above it feels weird?

it's still pretty early game - and i've never been one to be able to well articulate my reads unless I'm being pushed on.

Can you please answer about italiano though?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

RTP, you still think Duchess is most likely scum here?

Can you hit me with the cliff notes case?

It's actually pretty convoluted when I try to think abt it and partially was sheeping GC reasoning too - you'd have to ask them as they seem to be better spoken than me. I'm too gut based in early game.

I generally find their tone/play a bit stilted, on top of general hedginess and refusal to take stances.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

If I'm being honest VP I am also leaning scum on you so it'd be good if you could sorta try to dialogue a bit with me to help ascertain my read there on you.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Subject: Ban/Restriction Announcements

Lunar Martian, along with all their associated accounts, has been banned as an alt of a permanently banned user. They should be replaced in any games.

damn i knew that kid had weird vibes, now i see why they never talked much in games lmfao

[Reformed Toxic Player]

nice. a good replacement.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I did answer later in the thread, you may have missed it @midway

also im like feeling unsure if im on the right track wrt universes but like my gut strongly makes me feel like andres is scum here.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

hi site drama on my homesite where im a site mod now is pissing me off and im here to let off some steam hopefully by playing a nice good game of mafia and hopefully not get mad at anoyne.
-koba

[Reformed Toxic Player]

If I'm being honest VP I am also leaning scum on you so it'd be good if you could sorta try to dialogue a bit with me to help ascertain my read there on you.

I am always open to chat. I feel like I've directed questions at you, as per above.

You going to reply to this line of questioning you started RTP?

can you requote said questions im like not seeing straight rn and am in a bad mood bc aforementioned stuff

[Reformed Toxic Player]

RTP why is Dunnstral town?

why are you asking me this?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

ok let me try something
VOTE: italiano

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i feel like im pocketed this game and it makes me uneasy

[Reformed Toxic Player]

do you have anyone that actively pings you scum? (other than maybe duchess, i guess.)

I'm going to revisit Duchess, probably IRL tomorrow.

I'm getting scum pings from RTP and Harumi. Not sure if they are tied together, but they have both repeatedly ignored my direct inquiries; even though they have starkly different activity levels, it feels like they have contributed the same in terms of pushing the game forward; and RTP's preemptive claim of a secret town tell for Harumi doesn't sit right with me (particularly bc he refuses to engage on it).

Who are your townreads?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

And whats scummy about the actions youve stated, i.e. whats the scum motivation?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Also can you requote the direct questions? I tend to skim on catchup, you need to typically catch me when im here to get me to answer stuff for sure.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I already revealed it.

I'll quote it when im not at work
But discred me more will ya?

I think imma do trustfalls when i get home and analyze isos

[Reformed Toxic Player]

And whats scummy about the actions youve stated, i.e. whats the scum motivation?

ignoring direct inquiries means not having to explain your actions/reads

not pushing game forward means not potentially taking heat by pushing town vote, like lurker or active lurker status

your town tell with Harumi tbd I want to hear your response first

Can you identify which posts of mine are not attempting to push the game forward?
Because you are going to look silly when i prove you wrong

[Reformed Toxic Player]

lol why are u mad

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I mean you are going to be looking silly when i prove your points about ne wrong because i know youre fudging them.

Im starting to understand the foses on you

[Reformed Toxic Player]

sorry irl / off site drama stuff is hitting me rn and i dont have my heart into this game rn.

it'll pass so please lets not rush the day - i'll find my spark after I feel better.

re: datisi its a sorta c omplex question that involves reanalyzing and compartmentalizing my bizzare thought process. my brain tends to avoid hard questions so sorry.

i have like a read about a specific scenario related to this game that i wont out since it might be free info for scum. i know. cryptic asf.

i promised trustfalls but it will have to wait for later. i think trustfalls will help sort this game the best based on my aforementioned read.

i think i want to start by finding slots im confident are 100% town -> work from there since im finding im scumreading too many slots rn.

i know this is a lot of promise of contribution and not actual contribution like ppl were expecting of me and im sorry - i promise i will at least by this weekend bar an emergency because i need just mental health time for now to regroup. i put my all into games and if im stressed out irl it takes a hit on how I play.

i know its weird but like i think testarossa might be my strongest townread rn based on meta followed by midwaybear, then harumi, who i feel is like just really limbaity because of low early read accuracy/ weird style but they feel pure.

if anyone has any questions for me in the meantime, post @rtp and i'll search the thread for it later on to be able to respond to any and all posts with that in it.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

And andres is just consistently at the top of my scumleans atm - just their play thus far just doesnt... vibe with me the way i've felt with town andres in our past 2 games.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I hope thats enough like chew on while i take a break

v/la until saturday

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i like the recent string of andres posting but im still wary of being pocketed - unfortunately im feeling a n1 coming my way if i am being pocketed LOL


i guess ill just go back to - if andres lives too long = scum like our last game read on them.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

for italiano, i tend to judge a baseline skill level for scum as how comfortable are you as the alignment? if you say things like "oh no i hate being scum" in the scum chat, i will assume you are bad at scum, while italiano said they are bad at lying in the following quote from our scum chat in open 799 they never said they were bad. said they dont LIKE being scum but thats not a terrible reaction and they were relaxed when they said it. plus they weren't too stressed about being wagoned d1 (well it was a 3 hour wagon LOL).


Subject: Open 799 Mafioso

Also how good are u at scum.
Im good but i have trouble maintaininf threads of thought over longterm

Hola. This is my 3rd scum game on site (1-1), could’ve been 2-0, but it came down to lylo. Outside of mafiascum.net, I’ve played the werewolf variation of mafia on a boxing site since 2006, so I’m pretty good at scum, although I don’t like very much. I can’t lie.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

well well well he did say he is a bad liar

[Reformed Toxic Player]

hi i am feeling a bit better and can do stuff after work

[Reformed Toxic Player]

hey im home - settling in then getting to work >:)

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I'm willing to look like a fool if I'm wrong.

So you gonna change your name or your profile pic?

Don't imply OGI please. You know that's against the rules.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Subject: Forum Rules and Guidelines

Do not bring outside influences into the game - this includes threats, bribes, wagers, promises, "trust tells", alliances, etc. Using

knowledge

from previous games is perfectly acceptable, but try not to carry grudges from one game to another.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

also im here and ready to roll - lets go

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I'm taking note that Italiano seems to be somewhat confrontational this game.

I am confrontational this game because I’ve been annoyed this game.

whats been annoying you?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I'm taking note that Italiano seems to be somewhat confrontational this game.

I am confrontational this game because I’ve been annoyed this game.

whats been annoying you?

1. The fact that I can’t figure out this game. It’s stalled and I don’t know why.
2. I know there is at least one scum on me at the present and I can’t figure it out.
3. Trying to figure it out seems moot because my credibility is shot currently.
4. Being scumread for being transparent.
5. The fact that this game is dead, oh did I mention that already.

This is why I’m annoyed. It ain’t just one thing. And I ain’t replacing out; that’s not what I do, I wouldn’t want anyone coming into this slot anyway, wouldn’t be fair to them. Gotta try my best to clean it up.

thanks. it was an important question - i wanted to see if you had any particular reasoning which does help me sort you.
also my apologies I was distracted as I am usually so.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

hi this is embarrassing but i passed out

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Harumi Ayasato
-Assertive behavior early on, puts themselves on the spot with a push
-Attacks multiple people, when voting Italiano has a clear reasoning for it
-reads list in 245 well written
-Has specific reasoning for their pushes when prodded for it
-Overall feels uninformed

Green Crayons
-69 post count at the time of making this(nice) (also joke)
-points out the contradiction wrt harumi’s read, leans town for me
-defensive about being misrepped
-is trying to work with others

Votato(yuck)/midwaybear(<3)
-lack of care for how they are perceived
-posing good questions to others that clearly lead to conclusions
-337 feels very towny with the contrarian thing
-their read on andres looks fluid, when they locktown them and are not afraid to change that after a reread
-on replace in, quickly gives thoughts
-generally towny vibe, feels like town midway(gut)


Reformed toxic user
-thats me
-im town as fuck
-if you disagree you’re wrong as fuck
-literally never wrong
-not toxic btw


Testarossa/Battle Mage
-gun to head i’d say town? But theres not enough content to say i would use as reasons to townread them

Andres
-is taking stances, solid ones
-good analysis on other players, wiling to clear them from PoE
-seems to have naturally figured out who I was - something i think that would be more likely if they were in a scum pt with 2 others, as 1 other person here knew who i was
-im tending to agree with their pushes/points which is town-indicative for me
-is willing to townread me despite my consistent scumread on them.

Elements
-is honest about them not outting an early reads list with good reasoning
-reads lists later on has good looking reasoning
-is pushing people to make reads on them, which is attention grabbing

ItalianoVD
-is open about their scumgame early on
-very relaxed energy!
-during player v player fight(duchess/GC), goes after the person whos townreading them
-makes statements that can be backed up
-is willing to reeval rather than deathtunnel duchess
-outs their thought process, and admits fault in being in the middle of the fight and helping instigate it
-overall the way they are reaching conclusions feel organic and honest
-when asked why they are annoyed, they had a good list in response


sup sorry

i have to get ready for work

i have been getting distracted working on this constantly - im releasing what i have so far because i already have a conclusion where I have 2 scumreads based on my readings.

VOTE: Green Crayons

I think italiano is town here now.

andres is town should this flip scum every time.

harumi i feel is not as towny as i initially thought - i still think scum!GC implies town!harumi

[Reformed Toxic Player]

also likley partner for GC = Elements.

i wanted to post this now so we can get some reactions based on this. I'm fairly confident on thsi at this point.

Wanna get people's thoughts. I think last scum I'll find in the people ive yet to go through.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

also likley partner for GC = Elements.

i wanted to post this now so we can get some reactions based on this. I'm fairly confident on thsi at this point.

Wanna get people's thoughts. I think last scum I'll find in the people ive yet to go through.

I'm not following how you have scum reads on GC and elements when you posted seemingly positive attributes of their play?

A reeval after rereading helps !

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Had a gut feeling my worldview of the game was wrong.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

how do you get scumreads on two players from those notes??

andres is town should this flip scum every time.

harumi i feel is not as towny as i initially thought - i still think scum!GC implies town!harumi

also what's the reason behind this?

pedit: lol

Lack of towniness=scum
I'm looking for the people I'm least townreading bc I had too many townreads and felt uncomfortable with the gamestate - knew i fudged a read somewhwre

[Reformed Toxic Player]

didn't you say you had too many scumreads earlier?

also ok, but how are you coming to partnered / associate reads then?

Their interactions with each other suggest it, even recently GC outted an unsubstantiated townread on elements

[Reformed Toxic Player]

didn't you say you had too many scumreads earlier?

also ok, but how are you coming to partnered / associate reads then?

Oh im mixing stuff up lol

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i think my reread made me realize there was more towny content and i was just seeing red

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i think italiano is v towny here

[Reformed Toxic Player]

The fact that the Italiano wagon hasn't built up despite the fact that it has been talked about ad nauseum might be an indicator that I'm on the right track. Alternatively, it could just be a product of the stalled gamestate.

I think its a fact ur seeing red. Wanna walk through why you scumread them?
Being wrong is also a reason one might have a resisted wagon.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Do you townread GC btw -rllotus?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Do you townread GC btw -rllotus?

Slightly for his questioning and gamesolvyness

I thought this too at first but when i read closer into his iso i dont see a lot of conclusions drawn and its overall fluff - it does a good job APPEARING as such which is why i scumread them here.
Would you do me a favor and maybe reread GC iso and tell me what u think?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I feel like a good portion of this table has at one point or another voted italiano
I just feel the thread vibes were against him at least.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Wow, so many new posts.
UNVOTE: Dunnstral
I guess Lunar was voting here? Don't want this today.

Hey i think votato was playing their town meta, so by proxy i tr u, would u mind looking at my incomplete trust falls and lmk what u think of my current conclusions?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I feel as though if i am right on elements/GC then datisi/vp contain last maf based on how quick they both reacted to my fos on those 2 - please sheep this if both elements and GC indeed flip scum.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Oh and BM was also weird around it. I forgot about them lol

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Wow, so many new posts.
UNVOTE: Dunnstral
I guess Lunar was voting here? Don't want this today.

you really didn't remove Lunar's vote until now?

i'm gonna keep my eye on you, sunshine!

VOTE: midwaybear

RVS is long over. Midway is the towniest(imo) slot so far - so u have to do some good explaining for this

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Explain why u think midway is scummy.
The more you talk the less i think youre conversing in good faith

Im off break see yall later

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I feel as though if i am right on elements/GC then datisi/vp contain last maf based on how quick they both reacted to my fos on those 2 - please sheep this if both elements and GC indeed flip scum.

> writes a list with only describing positive things about players
> concludes 2 scumreads from that list
> "if i'm right, they're scum for reacting to my fos"

you're joking, right?

If im reading every player u think im missing the scummy stuff too?
Lol?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Explain why u think midway is scummy.
The more you talk the less i think youre conversing in good faith

Im off break see yall later

When I ISO'd Lunar earlier I recall thinking their positioning was a bit haphazard, and there was one post by midwaybear which read really badly to me.

A couple Q's:

What do you see as Lunar Martian's town meta vs scum meta?
What about my posts is not "good faith"? Disagreeing with my read doesn't imply my read is bad faith - and you have seen I have many reads and they do evolve over time.

I also still want you to answer this:

Oh and BM was also weird around it. I forgot about them lol

please tell me more about this - specifically what was i weird around, and how?

until you do satisfactorily, I'll VOTE: Reformed Toxic Player to give you an extra incentive

Scummy discred - looks bad for u if either elements or GC flip scm.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I'm not sure why you would trust fall Tess/BM when it looks like your read is a weak gth townlean.
BM voting me is also somewhat questionable.

Tess is gth town - bm has tanked that so far

[Reformed Toxic Player]

didn't you say you had too many scumreads earlier?

also ok, but how are you coming to partnered / associate reads then?

Oh im mixing stuff up lol

Like this is such a fucking scummy response to getting called on a contradiction. It could be genuine! But this is also the exact way I react when I get called out as scum.

"Oops, lol"

It defuses the situation and ideally, as scum, people stop talking about it.

Are you willing to die on that hill?

You know very well i make genuine mistakes and its NAI.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Also do you disagree with any of my analysis thus far, and with what? Anyone whos played with me KNOWS you have to catch me as scum based on my reads.

My reads as scum are super stagnant. This is not the case here.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Frankly, I also think RTP has been a little TMI about Italiano. They have been calling him town since SUPER early, and there was a period there when that definitely was less than obvious.

Where did i call italiano town early?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

vp this bad faith push on me is frankly a bit odd bc based on my read of the game you do lean town here.
Im always going to be flip floppy d1 and like.i said earlier, stagnant reads are more scum indicative than ever changing ones.
I was more careful with italiano since he did say he was good at scum but since he said he is bad at lying i marked it as an easy read/able to get him to spew if I catch him.

I get off work in about an hour so ill finish up my trustfalls then and then ill go into detail about my GC /elements read.
I think at minimum those 2 are SvT. And the thread momentum towards me when I shifted up my reads is a bit of a confirmation to me.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

If you actually look at all my scumgames you can see i hard tunnel a certain set of reads until i have to change them, i
E. The votato push in bending, the username push in chosen mafia(open 799)

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I just think im like playing a really tryhard town meta this game bc of my switch up in playstyle to be less toxic and i do suggest those who have played with me consider that before yiu try to hardtunnel me based on a verbal slip up which i make regardless of alignment.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Also do you disagree with any of my analysis thus far, and with what? Anyone whos played with me KNOWS you have to catch me as scum based on my reads.

My reads as scum are super stagnant. This is not the case here.

I don't think GC is really scummy, so yes, your analysis doesn't look great.

What makes him towny here? I looked myself and i wasn't townreading him anymore.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I just think im like playing a really tryhard town meta this game bc of my switch up in playstyle to be less toxic and i do suggest those who have played with me consider that before yiu try to hardtunnel me based on a verbal slip up which i make regardless of alignment.

But the fact you've completely changed your playstyle kind of negates your own meta, yeah?

And it doesn't read like just a verbal slippage, it's a completely wrong account of how you personally viewed the game. Accidents definitely happen. But you're asking me to believe that you couldn't remember if you had too many scum reads or town reads?

Yeah. Believe it or not my perspectivr changed on reread when i reset my view on the game

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Its really as simple as "i did a reread after a couple days off from the game and had a new perspective and forgot about my old one"

Like i can't defend myself about being accused of lying abt something im being honest abt except to say "this is why this happened" which i already did .
Similar thing happened in datisis desperation day - ppl accused me of lying when i was being truthful.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Its really as simple as "i did a reread after a couple days off from the game and had a new perspective and forgot about my old one"

Like i can't defend myself about being accused of lying abt something im being honest abt except to say "this is why this happened" which i already did .
Similar thing happened in datisis desperation day - ppl accused me of lying when i was being truthful.

Who specifically did your read shift from scum to town when you reread?

Italiano was the biggest one

I wanna put out that lunar/midway became a more solid townread there, even though I wasn't scumreading there.

Andres I started to townlean rather than nullscum

The latter part of the PL is more who i was more unsure of - thus why i was thinking my last solve read would be there

although BM started to ping me with their reaction to how i started to reeval, it felt very agenda based there.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I'm also home now - 2nd round of trust falls coming Soon TM

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Another note. VPB and Datisi have a strange connection this game. The most obvious thing is that Datisi followed VPB both to Dunn and to RTP. I've also noticed reading through VPB a couple moments where VPB and Datisi were kind of just assuming each other's alignments, as if they already have knowledge of each other's alignments.

Idk if scum would really make it this obvious their connection to each other. I'm not going to jump to conclusions atm, but it is something interesting to note for later.

this is sorta the place im also looking at if one of GC/Elements ends up being town.
ive basically PoEd it down to 5 names i think. (if i reread both VP/Datisi and they're town that makes it even better)

GC/Elements/BM/VP/Datisi <- this PoE may likely win the game here.

if im FoSing another masonry here imma be big mad tbh. and if i AM please do not assume im scum for it bc i will always fos masons who are bad at pretending uninformed bc yall always play like u got an agenda to save ur mason partners and it makes it harder for town to scumhunt.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

*cracks knuckles* lets get to work now.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

sorry i got durnk and distracted.. lol

gonna do this NOW

vote me out if i dont do it in the next 4 hours pls

[Reformed Toxic Player]

VOTE: elements

[Reformed Toxic Player]

VP Balter
-HIGH POST COUNT first thing i noticed - thats usually a good towny sign for most
-im drunk rn leace me alone
-look i tr this lsot before im reading ok?
-and im drunk haha
-questions me on my GC townread and seems unaligned with GC
-admitted fault with their andres read-liked that a lot!!
-like that they are pay9ing attention to players dodging this game - looks good
-ok like the more i read the more i see the town meta VP- when i was scum i kinda ignored it and didnt realize it and when he was scum it was obvious to me, i think this is the first time we might have rolled town together?? Feels different here now
-love their dialogue with andres it feels good…
-aaaa hate their vote on me but i understand it i just cant like verbalize it i feel like they used a towny mindset to reach that read…….. Idk i think vp does warrant a future reexamination once flips happen but we should start with town for them. I hope they try to dialogue me here instead of tunneling me
-i feel like their scumread on me is genuine based on legit concerns - i know i am sloppy sorry. I get it.

ok vp i wanna post to get out of the way.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i feel that was an important one idk!!

[Reformed Toxic Player]

ok i got to drunk and distracted - but pls dont vote VP i dont think htats scum

[Reformed Toxic Player]

ok i got to drunk and distracted - but pls dont vote VP i dont think htats scum

I think he is scum tho

pls trust the drunk koba i think vp town

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i return this morning
and what do i see?
reformed toxic player
still dodging me

will he respond?
or keep hiding away?
I'm currently happy
to elim him today

a) they them
b) what questions did i dodge?
c) why do u feel confident enough to elim me?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

ok like the more i read the more i see the town meta VP- when i was scum i kinda ignored it and didnt realize it and when he was scum it was obvious to me, i think this is the first time we might have rolled town together?? Feels different here now

What about his meta makes you think he’s is town precisely? I’m looking at a few games of his and I don’t see this overtly matching his town meta.

its like - when i was town aginst scum him i could feel it. when i was scum against town him i was like - scared. but also easily able to let him get framed. i could just ignore him.

and i did cuz i felt i could just slide by him with how i plyed.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i am used to being voted on when i am town - its like sorta a normal thing that happenes and i understand where he is coming from cuz ike its a textbook scummy move although its NAI for me . i wish he did tr me here for it and if he flips scum her ei will be like *clown emoji* for it.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

idk im just like seeing scum outside of vpb thats a st ronger read and i think vpb is like being vpb in terms of their town play?????????????? idk/.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

im just seeing more scumminess from BM for the leading vote and i think datisi/vp had bad reads sory..........

[Reformed Toxic Player]

im just seeing more scumminess from BM for the leading vote and i think datisi/vp had bad reads sory..........

So why doesnt BM have a bad read?

i bcan prob explain when sob er bnut i feel BM is like agneda vobting and the ohter 2 are like genuine votes based on their meta on me etc.... like it makes sense ofr htem while it doesnt for bm does that make sense??

lol im dumb as fuck i camnt post omn the right account

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Elements

- 100% town. Likes to embellish their abilities.

VP Baltar

- Highly consistent in activity and engaging with anyone that happens to be online at the same time as him. Actively trying to solve the game.

midwaybear

- Lunar was towny. Very similar vibes to the last game I played with him. midwaybear's entrance kept the vibes going well.

Reformed Toxic Player

- Relaxed, doesn't seem fussed about what people feel about them. Lots of questioning and probing.

Andresvmb

- Based partly on other people's takes. I like the Dutchess/GC analysis.

RLotus

- Most of the shot posts don't give me anything ai, but the recent take on Me, GC, Italiano voting is a great line of thinking.

Duchess

- Towny side of the middle. The longer analysis posts are giving me town vibes. The constant "Yo Elements, stop ignoring me." without using that as a reason for a read also gives me good vibes. I was disappointed in the towning because I did the same thing of ignoring to norweegianboy at one point from a scum read and their reaction to it just heightened the scumread so I suppose it was a bit of a reaction test.

Datisi

- Haven't figured out how to read this one. I think he's generally quite towny, but other people don't? Not rlly sure what to think.

ItalianoVD

- Cannot remember how I called out his team in the werewolf game but nothing has

Green Crayons

- Fairly null. People have been commenting on tvs with Dutchess and I can see that being either one of them. GC is slightly lower because Dutchess is higher.

Testarossa

- Not a big fan of what's been posted so far, could also be from the pfp.

Dunnstral

- Trusting other people's reads about low activity.

Harumi Ayasato

- Do not like their views on me in the slightest nor the fact they keep bringing the point they don't like how I'm playing up. Seems very set on shading me for some reason and pretty much ignoring the other things going on atm.

VOTE: Harumi Avasato

elements, do you have like, thoughts on things that are happening right now?

battle mage is town
vpb is town
rtp is rapidly becoming scummier
RL has also dropped in my reads

sup? Wanna explain the progrsesion?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

can we get our collective shit together and elim RTC?

Assuming you mean RTP here.

I'll be honest, I expected RTP to come at me hard after that vote and instead they defended me.

Why did you expect that?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

can we get our collective shit together and elim RTC?

Wanna explain how you got me as lockscum?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Well im not scum so ur assumptions are naturally wrong

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I think if rand was generous to us, we have a good poe that with PR claims will make the game easier down the line - I'm excited.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

hi datisi i know u were in site chat lets talk...

[Reformed Toxic Player]

BM u moved ur vote once i switched up my read of the game - that literally reeks of an agenda.

I'm not interested in considering you town rn when you're just trying to shitpush me when thats the easiest thing to fake that looks towny as scum.

Where did I feign a read on you? Quote it. I do feign reads too btw -> strategically. but this is not a place where i have done so.

I didn't even concede I just straight ignored your bad push cuz it doesnt mean anything to me - especially considering you're now feeling SO confident that you think I need to be flipped rather than trying to poke around and see if you're right. the proportion of what you have listed as reasons for me being scum vs the confidence of your read is way off - and that is why I think you are not town and are also partners with elements based on your interactions around there.

Datisi i will answer you in my next post.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

ok @rtp i feel like we need to Properly Talk. i'll go through your reads in 696 properly a bit later but i feel like a lot of things are just... noted vaguely positive things that don't exactly mean much? like e.g. italiano making statements that can be backed up, how/why is that townpoints? what statements do you mean here? why is willingness to reeval townie? and also like, i just plainly disagree that the list of why they were annoyed was any good so idk. like you feel what i mean?

and another thing i wanna note what is your read on me/vpb? i mean this in the context of us voting for you, bc earlier you said that this is your town meta (which ftr i don't think is worth that much because meta can easily be changed but i digress) and then you say that our votes on you seem fine/misguided to you bc meta etc, so mind elaborating on that?

It's a sort of energy thing - the way they are playing does not come off as informed to me. Idk if you have noted by now but I tend to have pretty strong and accurate reads on LHF slots, like italiano, wrt reading how their bumbling around is. I think they are genuine and also combined with how their energy felt when we rolled scum together - I think that is towny. If I have to eat crow so be it - i do think an investigative is worth using on that slot. That combined with the fact I have a team read atm that I feel looks like... it fits? so far makes me confident rn

i already outted my read on vpb - but u are leaning town based on my poe + ur later play. i may have to reread a scum game of urs to brush myself back up since i've only played with town you so far. I do agree I'm one who can manipulate meta. I had alisae tell me a while back I should play town by trying to work with other town, which is what im trying to apply here now. But like I know I did note a pattern of just shitpushing people when I'm scum -> while you can make the argument I'm faking it here it's 100% like leaning town for me here. I have a history of being more "aggressive" as town - which is usually how ppl have tried to sort me - obviously now that I'm actively trying to remove that from my gameplay it is a stark difference that ppl who have played with me are going to see and be like "ok koba is off i think maybe scum for it".

[Reformed Toxic Player]

BM u moved ur vote once i switched up my read of the game - that literally reeks of an agenda.

I'm not interested in considering you town rn when you're just trying to shitpush me when thats the easiest thing to fake that looks towny as scum.

Where did I feign a read on you? Quote it. I do feign reads too btw -> strategically. but this is not a place where i have done so.

I didn't even concede I just straight ignored your bad push cuz it doesnt mean anything to me - especially considering you're now feeling SO confident that you think I need to be flipped rather than trying to poke around and see if you're right. the proportion of what you have listed as reasons for me being scum vs the confidence of your read is way off - and that is why I think you are not town and are also partners with elements based on your interactions around there.

Datisi i will answer you in my next post.

it doesn't matter one bit if you consider me town or not - it's inconceivable that I'm getting elimmed today. So suggest you focus on saving yourself, by responding to my questions posted previously. Every time you post and avoid the points raised, is a mark against you. I don't have any sympathy for the "woe is me, you're not giving me a chance" when you refuse to engage with me, and instead default to a lazy "nah i won't respond to BM cuz he is scum".

I don't honestly care because you're not getting the vote necessary to elim me here.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Your lockscum read on amounts to NAI things and fudged reasoning - that never comes from town and I can already tell you're gonna be claiming PR so im going for your partner.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Explain why u think midway is scummy.
The more you talk the less i think youre conversing in good faith

Im off break see yall later

When I ISO'd Lunar earlier I recall thinking their positioning was a bit haphazard, and there was one post by midwaybear which read really badly to me.

A couple Q's:

What do you see as Lunar Martian's town meta vs scum meta?
What about my posts is not "good faith"? Disagreeing with my read doesn't imply my read is bad faith - and you have seen I have many reads and they do evolve over time.

I also still want you to answer this:

Oh and BM was also weird around it. I forgot about them lol

please tell me more about this - specifically what was i weird around, and how?

until you do satisfactorily, I'll VOTE: Reformed Toxic Player to give you an extra incentive

like what are these questions? whats the purpose of the lunar martian thing? u wanna tell me?

with votato, i've played many games and i have a good grasp of what their town meta looks like - plus they were playing so obviously non agenda.

if you have a scumread on them and disagree then say it. are you scumreading midway? is that what you're getting from this? or is your goal just to discredit any townblocks from forming - because that is exactly what it feels like you are doing. you said positioning was "haphazard". like so vague and not describing what is scummy about it. or what the haphazard position is. and which post by midway reads bad to you?

your posts are in bad faith because you are not trying to sort my slot and are just tossing shade at people. this is not a town mindset. you can throw shade yes, but you need to follow that up. when you replace in and have an overtly confident read it comes off as extremely bad faith.

as for the other thing I do need to go look at it. - will be my next post.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

not me going back and solidifying that i think elements x BM were scum theatering pretty overtly on pages 29/30

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Ah yes now i remember - it was the fact it was completely ignored by BM when i posted my stuff -> i found it weird they latched onto elements instead and said nothing about a big post like mine. I know, sounds conceited but it came off as weird that they were NOT interacting with it.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

so I will share now - that the possibility feels less likley with my current reads now that i have found evidence it ISN'T what i was afraid of - but the initial thing i had was that I was suspecting a masonry in the game and I was feeling like I was scumreading people who looked informed but like it was too many ppl and that was like why I needed to help cut that number down and then i realized i was reading the game wrong when rereading and thats how i ended up thinking i tr too many ppl before bc i was so off there LOL

keep in mind i had early townreads on elements / GC slot and that was probably contributing to my less comfortable view of the game state.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

oh i was too distracted by PP berating me for trying to understand setup mechs lol so i forgot about that game.

it looks more like u are shifting naturally from a like "hmm idk" kinda stage to a "hm ok this is true" like idk how to explain it.

ur early play felt agenda-y.

i just don't think gamestate favors italiano scum here in general. like i really don't. i have stronger reads elsewhere. I don't scumread ppl making mistakes inherently unless its like an actual scummy one - those usually come AFTER d1 once u have flips and they mess up for example their worldview etc.

koba stop alt slipping challenge 2021

[Reformed Toxic Player]

it looks more like u are shifting naturally from a like "hmm idk" kinda stage to a "hm ok this is true" like idk how to explain it.

i'm sorry i have approximately zero clue what this means, maybe i'm tired

where/how did my early play feel agenda-y?

also like that's not an answer to my question - but now that you bring it up, *what* about the gamestate makes you think that? and who said anything about scumreading him bc of making mistakes?

i'm getting annoying to myself with this continuous questioning, but like i feel like i need to see an example from you on why your reads are the way they are? bc right now it feels just like you're adding different reasonings to things but i don't see the cogs actually turning behind the scenes

i think this is like complicating it too much im not that big brained and i dont have anything more like specific than that unless u wanna go over specific stuff and ask me where i think it leans - i feel as though I've outlined stuff pretty well. I sorta like to just go "hey i think this comes off as X, and i think you should also be able to reach that conclusion after reading this"

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I'm not you.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

And don’t question my feelings and guts because that’s all everyone has been doing. No one has a strong case so don’t @ me. You know who you are.

its just their overall posting - stuff esp like this is stuff that pings me towards town -> thus why my early read there. i had voted them later on bc of the inconsistency between what they told me in scumchat in open 799 abt their scum confidence.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

can I get a reads list from u datisi?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Does anyone have an actual reason to townread VPB? Like other than tone and gut, and actually evaluate his play today. If you look back he really sticks out like a sore thumb.

I just see his play as making logical sense from a town PoV - VP has been the target of scum pushes before as FL has taken advantage there, for example in Bending.

I'm just having trouble seeing Elements/BM/Baltar team, but we'll have to hear from GC more. I hope GC is not purposefully avoiding thread to avoid having to answer about my scumread on them.

OH FFS

i am so bad

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I'm just having trouble seeing Elements/BM/Baltar team, but we'll have to hear from GC more. I hope GC is not purposefully avoiding thread to avoid having to answer about my scumread on them.

yeah because BM is town

but wai

like counter the points ive made against them in how they are approaching the game.

do you think elements is scum btw?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

like counter the points ive made against them in how they are approaching the game.

BM does these shitpushes constantly when he is town. If he has actual good reasoning on day 1, then he is probably scum.

that's annoying lmfao - but it doesnt clear the elements / BM interactions looking rly bad.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

There’s a couple of things that are bugging me:

ok let me try something
VOTE: italiano

What were you trying to do here?

I don’t like 696. Why do you have favorable reads for players you scumread.

I went back and read 659 again as I didn’t catch it the first time. Maybe I’m townleaning the wrong slot.

Also what was your goal in 541? Is this why you voted me? If so, doesn’t make sense for you to be townreading me now.

that post in 696 was an exercise in finding reasons to townread ppl.

why shouldn't I townread you? are you not town?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

that post in 696 was an exercise in finding reasons to townread ppl.

So why did you scumread people after doing it?

why shouldn't I townread you? are you not town?

Your progression feels weird. You townread me by gut which is fine, then I assume you scumread me when you voted for me, and now you townread me for seemingly something you scumread me for?? I have no clue really because you never said why you voted me.

And you didn’t answer all my questions.

Because they didn't come out as towny enough??

bruh?

why are u asking me to restate shit ive already gone over.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

i already stated i had voted u for the contradiction from our scum pt in 799 and what u said in this game

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Gonna shoot some hip reads as promised:

Town as fuck:

Battle Mage

- Stated this already, but his play is just loose and ready to rumble. Not what i saw from scum BM before.

Datisi

- Felt a little slow off the blocks, but he's not pushing in lots of directions and I'm frequently nodding along with his posts.

Probably town:

midwaybear

- his play here reminds me a bit of when he was town in a game we shared. Reads are consistent with his pushes.

Green Crayons

- Has made logical, if aggressive arguments. I am probably due for an iso reread of GC to make sure I'm not biased toward the olds.

ItalianoVD

- He has said some scummy things, but he's just spewing a ton if he is scum. Also, Lotus' laser focus is disingenuous, meaning IVD is likely town.

Andresvmb

- I think he has had some weird opinions (like calling Testa town off nothing, though now that read seems correct), but overall he seems to be making logical pushes.

I still have some concerns, but unlikely to want a yeet on them today:

Elements

- I can't say I hard disagree with their positions, but wish they were in the thread a bit more.

Duchess

- I'm still not settled on whether their aggression with GC was legit or fabricated. I also don't love that they've disappeared from the thread when the spotlight went off. Still, some of their thread spewing felt like it would be very hard to fake as scum.

I go back and forth:

Reformed Toxic Player

- Main reservation here is the point I made about laughing off a considerable goof, and that RTP is a good scum player. I will say that their play this game seems less chaos making and more trying to actually solve the game, which gives me town vibes. I'm still trying to sort how much of that I'm feeling based on the changed playstyle.

Harumi Ayasato

- lol, who?

Kill, kill, kill

Dunnstral

- explanation given.

RLotus

- this dude tunneled the fuck out of Italiano all game, and then is acting like I'm taking public polling to decide where I place my vote. Bad faith arguments and tunnely behavior is two strikes in my book.

i dont get why ur so hung up about the mistake when i very clearly had an immediate reasoning for it - one that is completely plausible.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

dw i always get sorted by the night kills

scum always think i appear way townier than i actually am being perceived by other town

except when masons have an ego trip and fos me for fosing them...

[Reformed Toxic Player]

what even was my hot take i forget.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

oh right that there was a TvTvT wagon - lets revisit that

[Reformed Toxic Player]

is your avi someone I should know RTP? It looks like this guy I used to know way back and it wigs me out. (ftr, he was not a toxic human)

tyler1 - he actually was toxic in LoL and then he got perma'd and started to reform himself.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Official Vote Count 1.04

Kolasin Muncipal Assembly, Montenegro

---

Elimination

With 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to eliminate someone.

ItalianoVD (3): Harumi Ayasato, Datisi, RLotus
Dunnstral (3): VP Baltar, Lunar Martian, Green Crayons
Elements (2): Andresvmb, Duchess
Harumi Ayasato (1): Testarossa
Testarossa (1): Dunnstral
Duchess (1): Reformed Toxic Player


Not Voting (2): ItalianoVD, Elements

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-02-28 21:49:12)

Mod notes:

[/area]

hot take but the top 3 wagons here are TvTvT

[Reformed Toxic Player]

didn't you say you had too many scumreads earlier?

also ok, but how are you coming to partnered / associate reads then?

Their interactions with each other suggest it, even recently GC outted an unsubstantiated townread on elements

why do you townread elements?

i need to be stopped

[Reformed Toxic Player]

GC, who are your townreads outside of elements btw?

I get the distinct feeling ur tryna widen PoE and are taking no effort in taking a stance + narrow it down btw.

(I'm not the only one who sees this in their postings, right? like the amount of vague stuff that amounts to "this is NAI" or "this might be this" kinda stuff but no like solid conviction either way)

[Reformed Toxic Player]

GC, who are your townreads outside of elements btw?

I get the distinct feeling ur tryna widen PoE and are taking no effort in taking a stance + narrow it down btw.

(I'm not the only one who sees this in their postings, right? like the amount of vague stuff that amounts to "this is NAI" or "this might be this" kinda stuff but no like solid conviction either way)

Do you think this is unusual for GC?

I have not played with GC - this is just general scumhunting.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

battle mage is town

They basically single-handedly moved the game and started it back up again

vpb is town

still playing in the same style that got the town read in the first place

rtp is rapidly becoming scummier

should've thought about this more before saying it. no real reason, just vibes

RL has also dropped in my reads

His iso being stagnant with reads the entire game, then when this is pointed out he comes back and starts being active in a way that to me seems like scum panic to put out good town stuff.

an interesting thought has crossed my mind. What if RL is scum, sort of just bobbing along because his scum buddies are inactive; let's say Testarossa and Dunn, then battle mage replaces one of them. Suddenly there's a turnaround in activity from both slots who co-ordinate a back and forth to make both look more towny.

Granted, that was a weird game, but BM feels very loose and natural this game to me.

yea yea, I agree with you. I don't think what I said is the case, it was just something that popped into my head

VOTE: VPB

scum slipped ^^

[Reformed Toxic Player]

u better have a good reason for this quick.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

so vpb was playing sucm instead of town then vs what u said at first?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

u have been townreading vp for their play thus far - what reframed this for u?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

wait - so you're jumping on vp for defending you - where from your pov it should be that duchess is scummier here for the type of shade they are pushing your way. eggsplain.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

duchess has absolutely been tunneled on you since early game - what do you make of that?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

no - i just think your logic is not consistent with how you have been viewing VP and that logically town you would be more skeptical of duchess based on your reads.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

what are your thoughts on the VP/Duchess interaction?

TvT

[Reformed Toxic Player]

why do you townread elements?

not sure where you get that i'm townreading elements, but i think on balance his play points away from scum

kiiiinda elements but more like not seeing a reason why he's scum bc his play here is pretty spot on with prior town games; so not really town points but more like the absence of scum points

I'd argue your play here much more closely resembles your depiction of your scum-meta than your town-meta. One might suggest you put in lots of effort early, until you realised you could get away with less.

Agree with this take-away about Element's play aligning with self-proclaimed scum meta.

Would Elements!scum knowingly do that to make himself less suspicious by purposefully framing himself as more suspicious?

Anything's possible I suppose. But it relies on some hopes and contingencies that scum might not want to trust. But also is town really going to go "ah hah, you have outted yourself as scum via meta, let's elim!" Prob not. Teeny tiny town points for Elements.

yup i know. He's ur partner lmfao

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Ur stuck on this like null read bc u dont wanna be forced to vote them or take a stance on them

You having me somehow below them is also funny - what cause i fos you?

Wild.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

for reference, so you can't go "nuh UH I didn't ACTUALLY say those EXACT WORDS":

didn't you say you had too many scumreads earlier?

also ok, but how are you coming to partnered / associate reads then?

Their interactions with each other suggest it, even recently GC outted an unsubstantiated townread on elements

Ur stuck on this like null read bc u dont wanna be forced to vote them or take a stance on them

Ur own words you walked your townread back saying it was a null read - both are scummy regardless. Nice try tho.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

You having me somehow below them is also funny - what cause i fos you?

Ah yes that is... precisely the exact opposite of how this game happened.

I'm getting scum pings from RTP and Harumi.

Im starting to understand the foses on you

you suspected me because I said you were suspicious. thank you for projecting.

No it was not the reason - it was the way you were presenting your reads that i was understanding.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

you didnt even press the point then -> i say these kinds of offhand comments just to see what ppl will or will not reply to. I find it amusing you are trying to bring up those same comments as suspicious now that its convenient.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Like youre not even responding to the accusation that i said thay youre trying to widen poe -> you outted a bunch of ppl yousay you would be "unopposed" to eliminating. Like u threw in a bunch of inactive slots and added me and called it a day.

I'm not the best with words ever and can adlib and explain things wrong ->but my overall point is often sound. I.e incorrect mapping but correct route

[Reformed Toxic Player]

you didnt even press the point then -> i say these kinds of offhand comments just to see what ppl will or will not reply to. I find it amusing you are trying to bring up those same comments as suspicious now that its convenient.

lol

you have ignored me c o n s t a n t l y this game

when i pushed you on it, you said that you had already answered it (you hadn't), and called me suspicious for trying to discredit you

If you did push me on it then you'd have quoted it.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

K whatever i may have taken the wrong points that can be potentially NAI but im like confident on this and elements will flip scum and it will incriminate u

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Like youre not even responding to the accusation that i said thay youre trying to widen poe -> you outted a bunch of ppl yousay you would be "unopposed" to eliminating. Like u threw in a bunch of inactive slots and added me and called it a day.

i dont understand what that means but also i dont care about how you envision how i should play so i have no inclination to respond to your characterization of my play

you do know what it means u just wanna waste conversation to fluff and ignore it.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

You misquoted me to remove context about the foses on you- you're full of shit.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

You came at me wirh straight up lies - and now you're doing similar here trying your best to discred with cherry picked stagements.
Tell me, why did you exclude the context of my post saying i was understanding the foses on you?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Actually dont answer that i dont havr the energy to deal with more bs fabrications.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I'd like to point out that GC's been extremely vague about reasoning and cannot ellaborate when pushed on and starts talking in circles or just reverts to other points, or just points out shallow things

The above is just another scummy mischaracterization - forgets conveniently that they accused me of not pushing the game forward and is not using that point at all here. What changed?
They're basically gaslighting me trying to be vague about events bc theyre scum trying to weave a tapestry, not town trying to read genuinely .
it's just scum trying to discred someone guning for their partner

Their reads just REEK of someone who pick and chose ppl and made a read based on conveniencd. Townread the loud and active ppl, scumread the less loud (with the addition of the person who's loudly gunning for your head)

Someone please give me a sanity check like i feel confident here but i need a 3rd party opinion between this LOL i dont wanna be wrong here

[Reformed Toxic Player]

And if we apply the "pushing game forward " scumread logic - we can easily say GC is scum for not pushing the game forward. Their own reasoning- not mine.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Making up/mischaracterizing stuff ppl have said to push on them is a classic scum tactic to incite paranoia/cause conflict/confusion. I've done it before. I've seen it notably used by Flavor Leaf when i played in Bending against Andres and Baltar. Alisae did it to me in DDD. I did it to SirCakez in a temple game. This was the main reason i got so heavily pinged bc it reminded me of that situation.