Micro 1008: Burdened by Secrecy 2 (Paragon + Town Win)

[Hectic]

There's no need to be so secretive and obfuscate your identities, people. Last time the paragons were like 1/5 or 2/5 for guesses at BEST. So you might as well just be yourselves and we'll probably still get it wrong because we'll think that's someone else pretending to be Flea, right, surely it's not just Flea etc.

[Hectic]

We're sure on 3 of you so you probably have 5 more posts

[Hectic]

YOU'RE OKA OR MORNING TWEET BUT DON'T TELL ANYONE

[Hectic]

I don't even know who SnaileyBailey is and they feel really scummy in the Paragon PT, I'm kinda scared tbh

Feels like I'm in a hostage situation with an unknown entity, you guys have it easy here

[Hectic]

Could everyone in this game write me a poem please? This is an optional task but would greatly help in saving the world

The subject matter will be

Enlightenment

[Hectic]

I can't believe you've done this

[Hectic]

AND MUST MY NAME UNTIL I DIE

BE NO MORE THAN AN ALIBI

MUST I LIE?

Can't believe you'd write me a poem after I accuse you of possibly being Oka, the nerve

Flea

is

a roleplayer and you are pretty chaotic...

[Hectic]

Why would you do this again

[Hectic]

Alright, I want to reread this game while actually knowing the identities, so:

Lila - Oka
Vanya - Morning
Allison - bugspray
Five - Flea
Klaus - GeorgeBailey

Correct?

[Hectic]

I actually love how Morning imitated Flea and bugspray so well in the first 2 pages, should've figured that was Morning doing her research

Even dropped this oka morsel probably because of what I said in the paragon PT last time lol

klaus, five, where are thou

[Hectic]

VOTE: Klaus Reevaluting identities... I think I'm better with a Klaus exe.

Strange, what had GeorgeBailey done that was scummy for him?

i took fives identity into account but forgot about klausssssssss (xωx)

oki so klaus wouldnt be here regardless of alignment, five is more likely to play as scum FROM WHTA I CAN TEL...?

Nice distorted Morning impression

how the fuck did you follow the 7pm instructions perfectly but dO AND say nothing both when they were given adn wwhen you arrived?

mm ya ok thx

VOTE: Klaus sorry i dont buy that

Not sure about this

who the fuckm am i voting fr again

Hello again, bugspray

Maybe it's Alli and Alli really is burnt out on being a scumbutt.

Titus?

Five is usually pretty high effort as scum. I've seen openwolfing, I've seen deepwolfing...

ehh i think i can outtown both of you and im pretty confident in this dynamic lets be safe
VOTE: five
so nobody gets paranoia'd if five/allison are town

VOTE: Five Copy copy copy

but... you had good reasoning for why Five (Flea) is town, why copy the vote anyway?

thatd be really bad i think i pretty much outted myself in the last like 5 posts

You were all much more transparent by this point, wish I was reading lol

klaus + five maybe?

VOTE: Five

Fine. I wanted to enjoy this game longer though.

Extremely sus. Sees suggestion of him being in the pool, wants to "enjoy" game for longer, still hammers

maybe this is all a fever dream and paragons already won

this is extremely possible it should not have been that hard for them

Sigh, curse my inactivity

i hope Hectic didnt wasn't able to get too involved with the guess

shudder

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Morning Tweet DM'd me a perfect alt guess as of this post:

HEY ANYONE HOME?

JINGLE DOESNT COUNT.

I GOTS APOCALYPSES TO START AND SHADOWREALMS TO BE AT! I DON'T GOTS ALL DAY

Damn, we're slacking

Also, Hectic is exceptionally good at reading me so basically all you need to do is find the third townie.

hectic supposedly has a secret way of reading me that never fails so all you need to do is find the third townie :^)

grumble grumble grumble this doesn't help. It's a lot harder to read you two by meta when you're obfuscating

Your confidence in your reasoning that all scum had to be inside or outside seems a tad.. overblown

Here lemme read it really slowly so i actually understand it though cause im kinda slow myself

No, as scum i dont think i wouldve wanted to pick because it'd generate info regardless of who my partner is. It's like 2/3 odds that my partner isn't chosen i think so I would take that rather than potentially help town out

If I'm getting it

townier sequence

Then we have a long fruitful conversation between Vanya and Lila. Vanya looks much townier from this

I really can't fake being this scattered, i use other emotions as scum, usually a lot of self-depreciation and apologizing type stuff with varying results

as town i empty the contents of the temporary holding space inside my brain into the thread every 30 seconds. Even when it doesnt make sense and i havent even read it myself. Why? Because i cant do it as scum so i may as well demonstrate towniness the best way i can

nice

[Hectic]

I'm thinking Klaus and 1 of Allison/Lila

Klaus in particular has made no effort to solve alignments post-hammer, he's talked about identities but not alignments, and that's pretty telling

Voting out Allison definitely would've been a lot more useful, because now there's basically no content to read them off of. Basically need to figure out if Lila is town

[Hectic]

i feel like your either super obvious town and someone with exp with you would be slapping me for not realizing it or you are just scum trolling me because like i dont know what you are even saying

u spent all this effort trying to disprove my theory to the point where i, a very stubborn individual, bent. but now when pressed to come up with something about ur actual reads ur like asdfasefdsfasdf

tbh this is a problem for the paragons

either u have completely townspewed yourself with this behavior, its definitely AI but i don't know you enough to know what alignment it is in which case its klaus and allison

or you have scumspewed yourself in which case i think id be sure its on you + klaus although my logic for why would be wrong with how you broke apart my argument, but you put a lot of forethought into it so /shrug it means something

This handling of Morning's thought spew feels a little awkward, like Oka's not sure whether to call it out as towny or just shrug about it

George was also claiming to scumread and voting bugspray so gun to head I go Klaus and Lila (again)

Oka, you played this game so differently and with so much more WIM, any reason?

[Hectic]

I saw a glimmer of Titus because she calls people scumbutts all the time

I'm gonna assume i rewrote history in my mind on accident

Uh but yeah i just suggest guessing scum/town traditionally

My previous point that bugs has like gotta be super burnt out on scum probably stands but i can look into that more seriously

Is bugs actually burnt out on scum?

[Hectic]

Suppose it could be Lila/Allison with Lila manipulating Klaus into hammering

What do you mean, Oka? You were bitmap last game, right?

[Hectic]

Idk, I don't really see it being George and bugspray and George hard busses launchbait bugspray. I think they probably just lose in that scenario. Makes sense there's a scum controller on the actives

[Hectic]

Weren't you low on wim last game, while the game was running I mean

[Hectic]

you were Allison last game?????

[Hectic]

I am so bamboozled

I thought you were Lila posting pictures of your new cats, what is wrong with me

[Hectic]

It was just Isis posting pictures of Pandora and co....... I wonder if knowing that would've changed our guess

[Hectic]

Fair, that game was lost either way

[Hectic]

Koba, what do you think on Lila/Vanya? I think one of them has to be scum and it's not just launchbait Klaus/Allison bussing and lucking out on a win. I think Vanya kinda townspewed earlier

[Hectic]

My secret tell on you si that you're a lot more charismatic and seem to have a lot more fun when you're town

You're obvtown in stuff where you're making japes and messing around with impromptu poetry etc. But then when I saw you as scum in team mafia and that command and conquer game, you were still active but felt like you were having less fun

SECRET TELL DEMOLISHED

[Hectic]

Thing is you've had plenty of fun and charisma in this game but it might be because of the secret identity thing outlet

[Hectic]

You were scum with shiki and I

[Hectic]

Exactly

You can admit you're scum if you want to know instead, Morning

[Hectic]

That was after certain things happened that would tilt anyone

[Hectic]

more tells give me the dossier

nonononono I don't just dish out everything I'm not insane

[Hectic]

Tbh my standard for your town game is through the roof after you subbed in as Taly in chiptune mafia and completely turned my PoV around to voting out scum!Alora

The poems there were off the charts, you just don't understand

[Hectic]

ok i have a good joke:

im scum

gottem boys

damn oka might actually be town

[Hectic]

smh how do you forget all of the games you play

[Hectic]

actually are all old games autoread

Doesn't look like it

[Hectic]

See now that's the obvtown Oogle Boogle I'm talking about, NSG is blessed

[Hectic]

pocketing nancy time

nancy i think ur obvtown in fact anyone thinks ur scum is bad at the game just bad, this is your obvtown meta

lol

Nancy at least 1 person who calls you obvtown is scum, it always happens

[Hectic]

Never

[Hectic]

How are you reading Vanya now, Lila? 510 is cool but a lot of that thoughtspew like the stuff on being fearful on identities and being tilted in other games are NAI things that I think can come from either alignment

@Allison/bugspray

, paragons can no longer win by guessing identities. The only way paragons and town win now is by guessing the two remaining scum players. If you're town, you need to show us that and help us figure out who scum is

[Hectic]

but but Allison/Klaus makes so little sense

[Hectic]

i'm not ¬¬

[Hectic]

Waiting for Klaus to come and do more solving waiting room

You should use everything that happened post hammer btw, that might be more alignment-revealing than everything before since no obfuscation

[Hectic]

How about you ISO your good friend GeorgeBailey (Klaus) and let us know how you're reading him

[Hectic]

post hammer only matters for people who are incapable of playing scum. post hammer everyone has the same wincondition. pre hammer matters the most for AI stuff. now if you think that some people literally cannot play scum then maybe post hammer matters more but i don't know anyone well here enough to make that call.

Scum still has to fake-solve post hammer while town can genuinely solve, no?

[Hectic]

i can explain my thought process on the baton idea

basically i knew that blitzing the lim would make it hard for the paragons to win and the likelihood of hitting scum in a setup like this on the first lim will less than EV because well, two scum. but its supposed to be counterbalanced by the fact that we can generate lots of info through analysis, and if we blitzed the lim with no strategy there wouldn't be anything to analyze. the baton pass gives us discernible info to analyze now, you have the piece of information of who made what decision, that's something to analyze instead of people just arbitrarily picking someone to lim. i don't know if that's too confusing to follow because i think on a superficial level, me picking five seems arbitrary. but there is a lot of meaning when i selected vanya who selected klaus who selected me to finally select five. that ordering matters a lot in my opinion. creating that info is absolutely essential. i don't think id go with a strategy like that as scum because im literally designing a mechanism to allow for the blitz strategy to prevent paragons from winning while preserving the benefits of info lims.

So what happened was Lila -> Vanya -> Klaus -> Lila

I get that this can generate info, and it's not the reason I think you're scum. You're scum from PoE more than anything else right now. Also, that line of decisions suggests a Klaus/Lila team if anything, unless you can draw some other info from it?

[Hectic]

I get the feeling bugspray is intentionally typoing here, kinda scummy

[Hectic]

idk what to say hectic im town ive taken too many risks to be scum and done too many things that help the town win condition, and sure it indirectly helps the scum win condition too but there are better ways to lowkey help the scum win condition. i dont feel like i can win tho because you want to pick me + klaus/allison no matter what so the only thing im trying to do is townspew myself but if you disagree that my actions are protown and think my towntells dont apply this game like i really don't know lol its like a kafka novel

whatever okay bye for real

yes nancy i was allison last game

i literally self limmed last game and town lost and i felt like we partially lost because i self limmed, i actually had the right thread going (and solve) and could push on maruchan but i bought her stupid explanation of why she wasn't responding because it was too funny not too believe. i ended being ic and i felt like i was the best at townspewing and pooky seemed to agree which is why i didn't want to self lim this game because i thought i could just townspew again but apparently not i really don't know

I'm not that opposed to going Klaus + Allison instead. It feels convenient but sometimes the roll is just like that and maybe George distances knowing he has to gambit to win this

This setup is hard

[Hectic]

Lila Klaus is my best guess still but wouldn't suprised at all if wrong

But the longer Klaus doesn't care to post, the more likely Vanya/Klaus is a thing and it's because Klaus doesn't fear losing and doesn't want to tip the balance

[Hectic]

I like bugspray's posting

Klaus + Lila/Vanya

[Hectic]

Klaus, come spew your partner please

It's a gamestate read, Vanya

[Hectic]

Independently speaking I still townread Vanya but Klaus lurking is SUS

[Hectic]

Last time Oka was Allison

[Hectic]

He was voted out last time so didn't have to show he was town, I can see it from both alignments this game

[Hectic]

Morning, I hope you're not finally breaking out of your scum meta in a silly micro game, are you? Surely you would've saved it for a grander setting, right?!

[Hectic]

ya pick some1 to pick some1

Alisae?

[Hectic]

how the fuck did you follow the 7pm instructions perfectly but dO AND say nothing both when they were given adn wwhen you arrived?

mm ya ok thx

VOTE: Klaus sorry i dont buy that

Vanya's last vote was Klaus so I can see why Klaus would pick Lila over Vanya, Nancy

(assuming it's a Klaus/Lila team)

[Hectic]

Nah, I don't think Vanya/Lila is possible, interactions are too clean. Also, Lila wouldn't be putting in effort with the walls if their victory was all but assured anyway

[Hectic]

Klaus hasn't posted at all though

[Hectic]

Because he doesn't want to give anything away and he's gonna win the game as things currently stand

[Hectic]

Klaus went from Lila!scum to Lila!town post-hammer, can easily see that as distancing. He handed the elim to Lila. bugspray has bothered posting and opening themselves up to be read which is inherently town-motivated, Klaus has not and has posted just 1 alignment-indicative post since the hammer.

[Hectic]

Klaus posted on:
5th of May
6th of May
7th of May

Hectic and others start talking about Klaus and asking him for reads etc

No posts on:
8th of May
9th of May

[Hectic]

Klaus went from Lila!scum to Lila!town post-hammer, can easily see that as distancing. He handed the elim to Lila. bugspray has bothered posting and opening themselves up to be read which is inherently town-motivated, Klaus has not and has posted just 1 alignment-indicative post since the hammer.

I mean town to scum btw post-hammer

[Hectic]

Can you show me what's anti-associative between Lila and Klaus?

[Hectic]

Klaus handed Lila to choose the elim. Klaus wouldn't choose Vanya because Vanya's last vote and suspicion was Klaus himself. Five and Allison were both wildcards. The fact Klaus chose Lila is actually associative, not anti imo

[Hectic]

Can you show me what's anti-associative between Lila and Klaus?

Would scum!you hand your buddy the elim choice if they are in no danger? Why? That makes absolutely no sense.

ya pick some1 to pick some1

I'm here. I just dont entirely understand this.

It was pretty unclear what was going on honestly. Scum!Klaus may have thought he was picking someone to pick the launch, and he didn't have the choice to choose himself. Or he might be picking his partner for WIFOM reasons etc

Who knows

[Hectic]

Klaus handed Lila to choose the elim. Klaus wouldn't choose Vanya because Vanya's last vote and suspicion was Klaus himself. Five and Allison were both wildcards. The fact Klaus chose Lila is actually associative, not anti imo

Why does Lila try to save Allison if he’s buddies with Klaus?

Where did Lila try to save Allison?

[Hectic]

most of those posts are after Five was already hammered and there's no reason for scum!Lila to protect scum!Allison when no voting can take place, only guessing. Which means the best thing they can do is

not

create associatives

The only way in which Lila "protected" Allison was choosing Five over them, but that doesn't tell us much at all, since it doesn't matter to Allison!scum if both options were town

[Hectic]

im v confident in my scuumgame rn. if i roleld scum i would have downloaded a second browser to sray logged into my secret alt

smh scummy quickhammer tbh

[Hectic]

ignore quote

[Hectic]

That would be a disaster

[Hectic]

I swear this guessing phase lasted 3 days, no? Makes no sense for Klaus to just make a couple of instant judgment messages when Five is flipped, then leave

Yeah, most confident on him for sure

I made the post saying "Klaus, come spew your partners please" to see if he'd actually completely stop posting to essentially confscum himself

[Hectic]

but yee, Nancy/Koba/I hammered Lila-Klaus so we'll see

[Hectic]

Joke's on you, I love being yelled at

[Hectic]

Admitedly Alli/Lila is possible still so I'm not completely confident in Klaus/Lila but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think bugs played well when they were here if they're scum

If it’s Alli/Klaus, we can just yell at Hectic. :P

I mean Lila/Alli.

I'm going to yell at Hectic regardless. Dammit Hectic!

Aww thanks, Jangle. you know I love being yelled at

[Hectic]

my secret alt cheatsheet as requested

absolutely ridiculous, I love it

secret meta tells OP, I should stop revealing more of them

[Hectic]

Okay so where's the reveal that Oka was actually Five and Lila was Flea all along, I'm waiting

[Hectic]

lol in hindsight that was stupid excessive but seemed like a good idea at the time

I would love to see you play scum in the mask of monsters setup. (one player controls two scum accounts, everyone is anonymous. if scum guess someone's identity, that person dies)

I'm not sure if you'd enjoy it though for some reason

[Hectic]

im insulted u would think i wouldnt top post a game hectic

wasn't actually paranoid this time, you just got me real good last time.. with the whole "queen mother approves" and "hectic lead the interrogation"

In hindsight, your final post of "guess I ban everyone now lol" or soemthing should've given it away

[Hectic]

that was really my main contribution to the paragon guess
but really shows how game was basically locktown win in nancy vs titus with hectic nancy and I all being town ^.^

nice

I want to have a variant of this setup which forces the players to not quickhammer instantly. I think as it currently is it's never gonna have a lot of content while being unhammered

[Hectic]

seems legit

[Hectic]

lol in hindsight that was stupid excessive but seemed like a good idea at the time

I would love to see you play scum in the mask of monsters setup. (one player controls two scum accounts, everyone is anonymous. if scum guess someone's identity, that person dies)

I'm not sure if you'd enjoy it though for some reason

I considered playing that but was too worried that i wouldn't be good enough at sussing identities, oups

Although I suppose i would have the entire site to work with and not a finite amount of players

My problem with that setup mainly came when it was broken by timezones! Really unfortunate. but interacting with yourself while playing characters and monitoring identities sounds like a blast in theory

It definitely needs some kind of timezone restriction or to enforce players from a similar timezone to play. Otherwise, goddamn dunny will break the game again

[Hectic]

The more players you have, the harder it is for paragons to guess all correctly

So maybe 8 players 5-3 but paragons get 24 hours to guess identities post-hammer? That might be too hard

[Hectic]

true, this needs to be run next marathon

[Hectic]

the snailey fan club has beat the baddies

Who are you

Pooky?

[Hectic]

Wait, why are you fishing from that divide and conquer game

(I was No Face)

[Hectic]

Ah

[Hectic]

Pooky uses "baddies" all the time which is why I thought it might be him

Of those remaining divide and conquer suspects, it can only be Norwee really

[Hectic]

wait im stupid they signed up for neighbor and got rejected not cnc

Unbelievable

[Hectic]

We should just ask the man himself

George, who do you know that would make a fan account about you?

[Hectic]

Classic

[Hectic]

Noraa would totally use those stickers, this is true

[Hectic]

maybe its a really advanced hectic alt because he knew that he couldn't sign up for BoS on an alt it would allow him to double paragon which is meaningless and now he has a perfect alt that will never get instantly outted

Can you not ruin my setup, Oka. You have no idea how hard it is to secret alt nowadays

[Hectic]

Definitely not Kanna or shiki

I won't fully rule out Hop because that guy's insane but highly doubt it, this isn't his style

[Hectic]

I'm happy with a Noraa solve. No way those stickers are custom, they look too good

George probably trolling Datisi but if not, it's him I guess

[Hectic]

I can't recall a time George has ever lied to me so this is pretty convincing honestly

[Hectic]

That sounds amazing, Jongle. /pre-in me please