Open 822: Popcorn Mafia - Game Over!!

[Lukewarm]

Feat not, I have arrived. It is I, the mafioso

[Lukewarm]

Now give me a gun, so I can promptly shoot Pav

Spoiler: The dream

[Lukewarm]

Players in order of readability:

Really easy: Lukewarm, marcistar
Also ez but slightly less: Pavowski, Toogeloo
I have some idea: Enchant, HockeyFan
Screw alts: Hectic alt, Galron, Vulture
OPENWOLF: NM

This really makes me want to go compile your read accuracy on me in out past games

Spoiler:

I don't think that it actually that great, just like based on memory

[Lukewarm]

Actually I think NM being chosen clears Enchant.

explain?

[Lukewarm]

Now give me a gun, so I can promptly shoot Pav

Spoiler: The dream

Pav is town tho

Yes, but I need my vengeance

[Lukewarm]

Man why did N_M get the gun.

I'm informed miller, I know there's a macho 2-shot cop.

I cc

Actually I think NM being chosen clears Enchant.

You dont have to allign with your mafia partner

this

early

We just came off a game where Enchant hammered NM on page 2 and I imagine scum!Enchant would be conscious of this fact.

My question was answered

[Lukewarm]

Alright I'm getting an avatar when I am on my laptop next HOLD ME TO THIS

I believe I have found a scum claim

[Lukewarm]

hmmm, still dont like you hard clearing soemone on page 1

It is probably a bad reason to hard clear someone, but it does look like t3 logic

[Lukewarm]

top

@NM, is a pagetop fail a capital offense?

[Lukewarm]

Hey cow, shoot here.

VOTE: lukewarm

omgus

VOTE: galron[/]

Do, I know you?

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: lukewarm
I can't tell whether his avatar is a hermit crab or a knight.

This...

I....

It is Vivi. The greatest character in any video game ever

[Lukewarm]

Ok t3 is posting alot and they are actually semi

good

posts as of rn, so they are town. Idk if this is their scum play tho

My most recent scumgame is Open: The Siege of Aurelia and my most recent towngame is Mini Theme: Open Draft

Is your most recent scum game, not pooky's dead silence game?

[Lukewarm]

hmmm, still dont like you hard clearing soemone on page 1

It is probably a bad reason to hard clear someone, but it does look like t3 logic

Does you saying its "t3 logic" mean that this is NAI for t3?

Yeah, T3 can use some pretty questionable logic to read people as both alignments

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: lukewarm
I can't tell whether his avatar is a hermit crab or a knight.

This...

I....

It is Vivi. The greatest character in any video game ever

OHHHH the weird hat guy in Kingdom Hearts 2?

I mean, you are not wrong, but also this post pains me

[Lukewarm]

Players in order of readability:

Really easy: Lukewarm, marcistar

offended, u just broke my heart

Just remember that he hard town read you in our last game

[Lukewarm]

Players in order of readability:

Really easy: Lukewarm, marcistar

offended, u just broke my heart

Just remember that he hard town read you in our last game

TRULY
im just multi talented

The last time I saw you post that exact gif, you were scum

[Lukewarm]

The last time I saw you post that exact gif, you were scum

actually?
do i not send it often? i know i send it to meuh kinda often its like my fave in the whole world AHAH

Yeah, the "last time I saw you post that exact gif" was in our first game together lol

[Lukewarm]

luke r u scum

Feat not, I have arrived. It is I, the mafioso

I am town

[Lukewarm]

Maybe we choose most competent player here and shot him?

If he mafia, expireinced mafia dies.
If he is town, he will lead.

I really suggesting.

I am the most competent player here

imo, Not_Mafia is a very good scum hunter

[Lukewarm]

Maybe we choose most competent player here and shot him?

If he mafia, expireinced mafia dies.
If he is town, he will lead.

I really suggesting.

I am the most competent player here

imo, Not_Mafia is a very good scum hunter

Lies and slander

I retract

[Lukewarm]

if luke is town and gets the gun, i wont lie, but i dont think he'll be confident unless he has a strong townread at that point.

This is why I would say shoot Luke on day two or three.

You death tunnel 1 townie super loudly for the entirety of day 1, and suddenly no one wants to give you a gun. smh

[Lukewarm]

I was serious when I said that I think that Not_Mafia is a good scum hunter. I have played several games with him, and his reads have been very accurate. But a lot of people like to ignore his reads because of his play style.

After the game aliensitter, where not_mafia had the entire scum team pegged day 1, and town still lost because people did not listen to him, I decided that I should start vocalizing his read accuracy in every game that we have together.

Which, I have.

[Lukewarm]

See, these posts gross me out, even if it's a reply to my criticism.

I mean, its the truth, and verifiable if you want to go look at my isos in my prior games with Not_Mafia

[Lukewarm]

i think arts townie, i like their point about luke

I have never played with Art, but Marci...

You Pav and T3 literally just saw me saw the same things about Not_Mafia in our last game

Marci, are you scum?

[Lukewarm]

T3, are you just town reading every slot?

[Lukewarm]

Art, I hate alt speculation, but T3 already did it (which, T3 stop outing peoples alts!)

Are you publicly known to be hectic?

[Lukewarm]

Okay then, if I was not_Mafia at the moment, and I was purposefully targetting someone I trusted with the gun, I would shoot either art or me (hubris, I know)

If I was shooting mainly for scum, I would shoot hockey or marci (I am sorry marci, but I can't let you keep doing this)

[Lukewarm]

Not really doing preflip associations day 1 with no flips yet

[Lukewarm]

I have concerns for both of them, and I am not gonna take one of them off my shoot list just because I don't know if they could be partners or not

[Lukewarm]

Then I misunderstood. I thought you were implying I should not have suspicions on both of them since hockey appears to be pushing marci, unless I actively thought he was bussing

Then, I would say maybe? I don't think that shading your partners would be as big of a deal in this set up, just because only one person has all of the kill power

[Lukewarm]

Coming to think of it, most of marci's content posts(and even some of her non content posts) are directed towards Luke/her read on him which is ??? Could be possible partners just interacting with each other as much as possible to get everyone else to TR them, not sure tho

Just to put this out there. Marci and I are friends, and we coordinate joining games at the same time so we can play together.

So, I am suspicious of Marci, but the fact that she is interacting a bit more with me is not one of the reasons

[Lukewarm]

Ok then why are you suspicious of Marci?

i think arts townie, i like their point about luke

This really bothered me. Like I said, she just saw me make almost identical posts about not_mafia in our last game together (newbie 2072), but then I remembered that in our game before that she even commented on me saying something similar to/about not_mafia (micro 1010).

One of the big read flags for me in our last game, was that Marci seemed VERY hesitant to ever give me a town read. I think that scum!Marci worries about be getting thread control

Spoiler:

Here is actually, every time that marci gave an opinion on me day 1 in newbie 2072

Luke seems off

Lukewarm - null (? maybe a slight scum lean)

Lukewarm - I have no idea what to think about luke still

And this was like a thing that kept pinging me that game, but then I kept ignoring it. Well, not ignoring, but I kept being like, marci this is weird, why are you doing this? Marci, you know me better then this? ect, but then never actually scum read her for it, and then the game ended without me ever actually calling her scum for it.

So, when I saw that post this game, actually gonna treat it as a red flag

[Lukewarm]

Is the TLDR of this: Marci's not tring you therefore shes scum? Dont quite understand it but I'll let you bus Marci without any repercussions rn

It is not that she isn't town reading me. It is that she is vaguely worried about me over things that she should know are not scum indicative for me

[Lukewarm]

So its based on your own personal bias since you only know what is truly not scum indicaitve about your playstyle. I still do not like this scum read. Sure meta exists, but why are you controlling peoples reads on you because of your bias?

What I said is based on based on what Marci should know given our prior play experience.

Not sure how you turned that into my personal bias

[Lukewarm]

imo,

Not_Mafia

Galron

is a very good scum hunter

I was serious when I said that I think that

Not_Mafia

Galron

is a good scum hunter.

[Lukewarm]

My shoot recommendations are at

People I trust with a gun: Art and me

People that I think might flip scum : Hockey, T3, Marci

[Lukewarm]

Marci, are you sure you are town?

Did you misread your role pm?

[Lukewarm]

Have you actually said anything about Art this game other than asking if he was an alt?

Probably not. Not really sure how to engage with his art posts lol

Out side of that, I think that Hectic is a good player, and of the player list is probably the person I would trust most with the gun. That is why he is on the tier he is in.

If he flips scum, an unreadable scum dies. If he is town, that a good player is holding the gun

[Lukewarm]

Ugh everybody alive has a 50/50 shot at being scum, do not like

What do you mean, everyone alive has a 50/50 shot at being scum?

Everyone is a null read?

[Lukewarm]

Ugh everybody alive has a 50/50 shot at being scum, do not like

What do you mean, everyone alive has a 50/50 shot at being scum?

Everyone is a null read?

No I mean in a vacuum there are 4 scum to 8 shootable slots

I was getting ready to accuse you of tmi'ing how many scum there are, but double checked it is in the OP from the mod, and apparently I just missed it lol

4 seems like a lot for an 11 player game, but probably makes sense since we are nightless

[Lukewarm]

Hectic has repped in, if you need help catching up, just let me know

There is alike, a site rule about speculating about rep ins, but I am going to assume that they don't apply here, so let the speculation commence

[Lukewarm]

I think that the rep in makes hectic town.

I don't really think that there is a reason for scum!art to make the switch right now.

He was in no danger of being shot, and his art posts made it hard to read him, but in a way that you could not say was ai, because it was just the alt gimmick doing it.

So, maybe he would do it if his buddies were in danger, but I scrolled back to see who he might be saving, and I think marci scum reads were the most recent development happening in the thread, so the fact that she is the one he is pushing takes messes with that idea as well

[Lukewarm]

Hectic has repped in, if you need help catching up, just let me know

There is alike, a site rule about speculating about rep ins, but I am going to assume that they don't apply here, so let the speculation commence

?? Hectic is Art's alt, not really a rep-in?

/swoosh

[Lukewarm]

T3, sorry if I don't put a ton of stock in your op marci meta tell

Spoiler:

I can usually read marci really well hold up

Using my OP marci tell I'm putting her at strong townread.

marcistar

,

Mafia Goon

, eliminated on Day 3

[Lukewarm]

Doing isos, and enchant feels like someone who thought they were signing up for a meme game and just really wanted to get the gun so he could just shoot away, and then slowly realized that ~half the lobby was taking the game seriously, and has resigned himself to a proper mafia game

[Lukewarm]

Doing isos, and enchant feels like someone who thought they were signing up for a meme game and just really wanted to get the gun so he could just shoot away, and then slowly realized that >half the lobby was taking the game seriously, and has resigned himself to a proper mafia game

ebwop

[Lukewarm]

Doing isos, and enchant feels like someone who thought they were signing up for a meme game and just really wanted to get the gun so he could just shoot away, and then slowly realized that ~half the lobby was taking the game seriously, and has resigned himself to a proper mafia game

where

What do you mean, where? thats like the whole iso

There is the "this is a meme game " phase:
7 - votes for the confirmed town
23 - asks for the gun
26 - scum claims
31 - asks for the gun again

The "is this not a meme game?" phase
35 - sheeps some votes
139 - starts thinking of how to strategically play the game
250 - can we just start shooting?

The "this is an actual game " phase
267 - thoughts on Toog
288 - pressuring me over a question I asked you
302 - pointing out that T3 has too many town reads, and asking him why he has not questioned it
322 - comes out with a town read on you
386 - starts to worry that if he gets the gun too late, compared to getting it super early, he could be the one to lose for the town
388 - starts pushing his scum read
391 - town reads you some more, and is worried that you are just lhf this game

[Lukewarm]

There is like an arc in his iso, where it seems like his mindset for this game changes over time

[Lukewarm]

My current split is

Lean Town

Hectic
Enchant

Nullish

Togg
Vulture
Hockey (^^)

Lean Scum

Pav (v v)
Marci
T3


I have liked Hockey's digging into both of Marci and T3, and he is looking unaligned with them. Also Hectic seems to be town reading them pretty hard, so that helps him.

So, he can go up to null. I still don't like some of his earlier posts x.x

[Lukewarm]

This game is weird. Having zero power unless you have the gun, certainly changes the feel of the game

[Lukewarm]

Like, it is hard to not just check out until I am handed the gun, which may not even happen, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Lukewarm]

Hello. I am announcing that I am accidentally over gamed. I am alive in 4 games currently, and 2 is my comfort zone. my engagement may suffer until I die off in one or two games

[Lukewarm]

Hello. I am announcing that I am accidentally over gamed. I am alive in 4 games currently, and 2 is my comfort zone. my engagement may suffer until I die off in one or two games

You can always replace out of some games.

Thats the cowards way out

[Lukewarm]

Both of them have some bad posts but I don’t think they’re scum together for how Enchant defended Marci?

It feels like a weird way to treat a scum partner to go “no they’re just bad someone is framing them” and then not saying who.

Yeah, I think we're looking at 1 of Enchant/Marci (probably marci), Pavowski, and 1 sneaky deepwolf

This feels about right to me. I will probably be looking at deep wolf candidates soonish.

[Lukewarm]

The probably marci should say probably Enchant

It was a heavy typo

Oh. Well, that changes how much I agree with it lmao

[Lukewarm]

Here is where I think T3 slipped his partner....

Players in order of readability:
Really easy: Lukewarm, marcistar
Also ez but slightly less: Pavowski, Toogeloo
I have some idea: Enchant, HockeyFan
Screw alts:

Hectic alt

, Galron, Vulture
OPENWOLF: NM

I had no idea that Art was Hectic's alt until Hectic officially replaced into the game. After he replaced in, I went and looked at Art's posting history. There is no reference that Art was Hectic there. So then I checked Hectic's posting history, and I went all the way back to the beginning of July (Art was born mid-July). There was no mention of an Art alt there. So how did T3 know that Art was Hectic's alt? An alt like that probably needs an ego post from it's main account in a private topic, especially for easier communicating.

My suspicion is Hectic made himself known in the mafia chat and T3 slipped that knowledge in the beginning of the game.

If I had the gun, Hectic would be my next shot.

My third suspect is Pavowski, which is more gut.

Toog is town. I see where vulture has proven toog to be wrong. But toog is town

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm's lack of deep solving is actually starting to worry me slightly. My experience of seeing town!him is being very analytical and proactive. There's been shades of that this game but it's started to peter out

Also, if you CTR+F T3 in his ISO, you see mentions of him saying he thinks he could flip scum, but never a reason why. I find this especially strange for Lukewarm given the familiarity he has shown with T3 in the past

There did not seem like a need to deep case T3 when so many people were seeing him as scummy. Did not seem like I needed to convince anyone. Plus I no longer myself an expert in sorting T3

Spoiler:

I have a theoretical investigative result that may incriminate Lukewarm.

Like, I know for a fact that this is not true, because I am a VT, so even something like a tracker can never give an investigative result that would look bad.

So, now I have to figure out, is t3 scum lying about it, or is t3 town lying about his result.

Any other player, I would just assume they were scum, because most players, as town, would not lie about having an incriminating result, but this is T3

In our first several games together, I very much enjoyed playing with them, but then they lost some scum games, and I guess decided that they could not fake being town as scum, so instead they just started playing bat-shit crazy as town instead, which I have no idea if it is helping their scum win rate or anything, but it more frustrating to play with them

He and I were both VTs that game, by the way. Turned out it was in fact town t3 lying about it

The only thing that I wish I had had more time to do was to sit down and case out the things I have found scummy with Hockey. But I am struggling. All 4 games that I am in simultaneous day phases

[Lukewarm]

Hockey was my first scum read this game. Early on Hockey has sooo many lamist posts. It looked to me like Hockey wanted to look like he was here and active, so he was looking for things to comment on to sound townie

Spoiler: lamist on not shoot quickly

Didn't saw any game he modded, but i don't think that's topic.

Btw, give me gun.

Scum!

Didnt you just clear Enchant. Why do you want them to be shot

Nvm I misread, but still why do you want people to hipfire

I suggest you shoot Galron Art or Vulture unless someone develops a strong opinion against that.

????? What is that? You're telling me u want to shoot people who have 0-1 posts rn?

I suggest you shoot Galron Art or Vulture unless someone develops a strong opinion against that.

????? What is that? You're telling me u want to shoot people who have 0-1 posts rn?

If we hipfire.

Ok but we're not doing that so you dont have to worry about that(unless ofc N_M goes full troll mode)

Spoiler: lamist on not dragging the day out

I’m drawing this out as long as I possibly can

Bad decision

I’m drawing this out as long as I possibly can

Bad decision

VOTE: Hockeyfan

Dragging it out too long just makes town apathetic

Spoiler: Trying to buddy up to art

Art rolled town? pog

I hope u do this the entire game. These graphics are really good and im enjoying them

And like, every single one of those posts were on the first like 3 pages of the thread. So it just looked like he was coming in hard trying to look town and to make a buddy.

Hectic, what makes you sure that that was T3 slipping that hockey was town, and not t3 trying to chainsaw for his partner. Because he tried to call you scum for your read at the time

[Lukewarm]

Do you have any thoughts on Vulture and I's discussing regarding you, Lukewarm?

I am kind of mulling it over. I still think you are town, but I want to do an iso dive on vulture. It feels like he has been "gunning" for me all game.

I will not apologize for the pun.

One concern I have there tho, is that if he is scum, and has been gunning for me, then I think that might mean that my reads are bad. Otherwise, why risk giving me the gun?

[Lukewarm]

Gunning might be a strong word. But I wanted the pun.

Maybe shading me all game was more accurate

[Lukewarm]

Got sniped on that one

[Lukewarm]

Spoiler:

Sycophantism?

149 is trying to buddy-buddy with the person with power.

I think the fact that they're joking makes them more of an issue, tbh.

I think the fact that they're joking makes them more of an issue, tbh.

Why?

Meh.

If I was trying to get in good with the person with a gun I'd try to be funny about it rather than directing them to do XYZ.

I also think Luke would do it like this as well, specifically.

I was serious when I said that I think that Not_Mafia is a good scum hunter. I have played several games with him, and his reads have been very accurate. But a lot of people like to ignore his reads because of his play style.

After the game aliensitter, where not_mafia had the entire scum team pegged day 1, and town still lost because people did not listen to him, I decided that I should start vocalizing his read accuracy in every game that we have together.

Which, I have.

See, these posts gross me out, even if it's a reply to my criticism.

The whole set of interactions about Art's interactions are super ?? We have me(partially) and T3 defending luke and not agreeing with art's sr, and on the other hand we have Vulture apparently being to read Art's mind and intention for the SR? Makes no sense. Art/Vulture seems too level 1, but so does T3/Luke soo. Fwiw, I do think one of these pairs CAN exist, but not just because of these 2 posts

It's pretty obvious that Art thinks the same thing that I did in 150.

My shoot recommendations are at

People I trust with a gun: Art and me

People that I think might flip scum : Hockey, T3, Marci

Have you actually said anything about Art this game other than asking if he was an alt?

*Waves hands at whatever this is.*

Don’t tempt me with what I have tried to let go.

Earlier on, it did feel more like Luke wanted to convince me that he was genuine about how he was treating N_M which I still think was weird given the fact that if he was town he should have bit back or wondered more “huh, wonder why they’re saying this.”

Maybe he wasn’t worried because I was the only person who was saying it and N_M had already threaten to shoot me so he could have felt “in.” Meh.

235 is Luke’s first “solving” post.

There’s a lot of poking at people and saying things but it’s more about either being lighthearted or when I pushed at him, trying to convince me that I was interpreting him incorrectly. I don’t see why he isn’t with T3...

T3, are you just town reading every slot?

I’m skimming but this sort of question doesn’t exclude them as partners imo.

marci was interacting and bouncing off Luke too much for S-S imo. Like I think it'd be a lot harder to use Luke as a focal point for scum!marci if he was also scum, it's work and harder to make look natural

Their interactions also didn't really look like theatre to me

I disagree honestly; with friends you can use the dynamic that you naturally have from being friends to override the alignment issues.

I have an easier time seeing (assuming Luke + Pav) Marci fit over Enchant... also the way she talked to me earlier too. And then didn’t talk to me.

I’ll do Pav + Marci + Luke I guess.

The last part of that post is so fake. Lol.

[Lukewarm]

Looking back through your iso, there is like a glimmer of a moment where you stop shading me around like 350 where started toying with the idea I could be town, but even then

I saw it earlier and went "huh, that's weird" but thought Marci was townier than her other scum games.

T3/Marci makes sense at least if Luke is town but it's hard to get over how slimy he felt early on to me.

[Lukewarm]

That was the glimmer of a moment I mentioned.

I will concede that it was not the entire game that you were shading me, instead you changed it a little bit and started town reading me about the time Hectic swapped in and said I was town.

But then the moment Hectic showed doubt on me, you swooped back in.

[Lukewarm]

Why are you framing it as shade? It’s expansive over everything in that iso of me but how is something like 277 shady when it’s a question for you...?

I am framing it as shade, because it feel deliberate. Like, literally every single time you mention me.

Like I said, you dropped calling me scummy in that 354 post, I think that that is the only post I found where you mention me that you entertain that I could be town, but even in that one you call me slimy..

[Lukewarm]

It feels like you’re preoccupied more with discrediting me currently than you are actually engaging the points I’ve made on you (which I think are reasonable ones).

What "reasonable point" am I ignoring?

It looks to me like your whole iso on me boils down to the fact that I said NM was a good scum hunter, which is provably something that I have said in many games as town. And that is something that I responded to like day 1.

What point am I ignoring?

[Lukewarm]

Unless you mean I am ignoring the part where you are trying to tie me to your scum buddy?

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Vulture

[Lukewarm]

It feels like you’re preoccupied more with discrediting me currently than you are actually engaging the points I’ve made on you (which I think are reasonable ones).

What "reasonable point" am I ignoring?

It looks to me like your whole iso on me boils down to the fact that I said NM was a good scum hunter, which is provably something that I have said in many games as town. And that is something that I responded to like day 1.

What point am I ignoring?

And like I said, it is an easy check to see if I really do talk about NM this way in other games, but you did not seem bothered to do it. Just settled into calling it slimy.

Spoiler: My last game with NM

After playing like 4-ish games with Not_Mafia, I am against a Day 1 Not_Mafia elim, and generally suspicious of people who lean into eliming him Day 1 -- he is an easy miselim target / angle for the scum team to push. Plus,

I have also found him to be a pretty good scum hunter, and would like to see any pushes that he leans into

before I personally try to sort him.

I am pretty sure that you can talk about a "hypothetical cop" without it revealing anything

It is my understanding that NM is a very hard player to sort (and a cop on him would deal with this).

Also,

from my experience, when town!NM says "This is scum" he is right more often then not

- so, not having to second guess any pushes he decides to make seem ++town from my PoV

We were both VTs this game

[Lukewarm]

It feels like you’re preoccupied more with discrediting me currently than you are actually engaging the points I’ve made on you (which I think are reasonable ones).

What "reasonable point" am I ignoring?

It looks to me like your whole iso on me boils down to the fact that I said NM was a good scum hunter, which is provably something that I have said in many games as town. And that is something that I responded to like day 1.

What point am I ignoring?

This was a serious question that you seem to be ignoring...

What "reasonable points" are you saying that I am ignoring?

[Lukewarm]

It's fun but probably not extremely productive, let's place our bets though

I reckon Pavowski + Enchant + Lukewarm

Marci + Vulture + Pav

[Lukewarm]

It's fun but probably not extremely productive, let's place our bets though

I reckon Pavowski + Enchant + Lukewarm

Marci + Vulture + Pav

Actually. Maybe hockey in there....

But I am not sure who I would swap out.

[Marci, Vulture, Pav, Hockey] inclusive is my guess atm

[Lukewarm]

Yikes I did it again. Apologies. Wth.

If you spoiler a quote that has a spoiler, sometimes there are nasty consequences, unless you break the spoiler in a specific way

[Lukewarm]

@Lukewarm: Why aren't you considering Enchant for scum?

Because this is my read on enchant

Doing isos, and enchant feels like someone who thought they were signing up for a meme game and just really wanted to get the gun so he could just shoot away, and then slowly realized that ~half the lobby was taking the game seriously, and has resigned himself to a proper mafia game

where

What do you mean, where? thats like the whole iso

There is the "this is a meme game " phase:
7 - votes for the confirmed town
23 - asks for the gun
26 - scum claims
31 - asks for the gun again

The "is this not a meme game?" phase
35 - sheeps some votes
139 - starts thinking of how to strategically play the game
250 - can we just start shooting?

The "this is an actual game " phase
267 - thoughts on Toog
288 - pressuring me over a question I asked you
302 - pointing out that T3 has too many town reads, and asking him why he has not questioned it
322 - comes out with a town read on you
386 - starts to worry that if he gets the gun too late, compared to getting it super early, he could be the one to lose for the town
388 - starts pushing his scum read
391 - town reads you some more, and is worried that you are just lhf this game

My town reads atm are you, toog, enchant

[Lukewarm]

Wtf is "giving pause in my townread" supposed to mean then? Are you putting me back to null so u can decide wheetr to jump in on a push From Luke and start to SR Me?(should he continue it)

(This feels like such an overreaction to me.)

It means I'm entertaining a bit of doubt on what is in general a fairly strong townread.

I kind of felt this way too about his reaction to my LAMIST case on him.

[Lukewarm]

(this is all assuming marci isn't just trolling here)

I also don't really like Luke's reason to townread Enchant. I get Enchant looks bored with the game and his posting progression reflects that, but I don't think that's exclusive to town. Like that reads makes me want to shoot Luke before Enchant, since there's a chance Luke is TMIing on town!Enchant (or he's just defending a scum buddy)

It was never that enchant looked bored with the game, it was a progression that I saw in his posting style that implied town thinking about the game.

Looking at his iso, I would say that maybe my town read on him is getting weaker just because he kinda stopped posting, but when I did an iso on him before it felt town to me

[Lukewarm]

One concern I have there tho, is that if he is scum, and has been gunning for me, then I think that might mean that my reads are bad. Otherwise, why risk giving me the gun?

I also wanna come back to this

I'm really struggling to see where this comes from a genuine town perspective. Like why does town!Lukewarm assume that scum!Vulture pushing him means he wants Lukwarm to actually get the gun? Galron is the gun bearer, and Vulture and I were pretty much the only ones in thread with much sus on Luke at that point. Does he really think scum!Vulture pushes him there eith the goal of getting Galron to shoot him, given Lukewarm's overall thread status?

It seems like a big jump in logic to go from
Vulture is pushing me and may be scum ->
Does that mean scum want me to have the gun? ->
My reada might be bad and they want me to misfire

Isn't it the far more likely conclusion that in a scum!Vulture world, Vulture is just faking reads and doing what scum do without a grander objective like

get the gun to someone who has bad reads

. And would scum!Vulture really think they can even influence Galron enough to shoot Luke?

Essentially, I don't buy that Lukewarm is actually worried about such a thing and that it's faked nuance that he would never think as town

Ehh. Maybe I did jump the gun on the "bad reads" thing, but it really has felt like Vulture has been pushing / shading me all game, and for things that don't make sense to me, which non-genuine shading = scum read

I especially did not like that he kind of dropped the shade the moment you said I was town, but then started back up the moment you voiced concern again. Felt opportunistic.

[Lukewarm]

Dashing avatar btw, Luke

It does feel very dangerous to me to townread Enchant in a game like this for very little

It is a fun temporary change, that interestingly would break site rules for me to tell you why the change happened

[Lukewarm]

Hmm

I go between being very sure and completely lost in this game, it feels uneasy

I think this setup is better in a marathon format. The extended time of no power/vote is a little frustrating tbh

Yeah, I think this would be great as a marathon

[Lukewarm]

MUSHROOM BOY WHAT R U THINKING RN

Spoiler: i see no difference

I am a PIRATE x.x

[Lukewarm]

I think that I am at Pav + Vulture + 1

Since you appear not to be the + 1, I need to think more that one

[Lukewarm]

if im town how would yalls reads change

I mean i was already starting to TL you lol so they wont change much imho. I think mafia team is pav/luke(his bad faith case on me combined with not that much contnet), and uhhh idk 3rd one. I want to sr vulture but thier content seems towny, and i cant SR togeloo/Hectic

Hockey, when and why did you start town reading Marci?

From what I remember you had her as a scum read right?

[Lukewarm]

why do u think pavowski + vulture?

It felt like in the beginning of the game Pav seemed to be avoiding taking any stances, like he was trying to keep his options open, or was worried about expressing reads and then flip flopping on them as the thread developed.

As of 282 he has stated exactly 1 read. A town read on T3, and then drops 2 very fence sitting reads on you and hockey. It is almost like he was trying to leave it so he could easily walk back either of those reads.

Spoiler:

I'm townreading t3 which makes me nervous and makes me think I should be scum reading him.

If I read Marci on this game alone I'd peg her as scummy, but Marci here does not feel like scum!Marci as I've seen her. I dunno if I'd shoot there.

Hockey I'm not sure about. Initial impression was scummy but if he's scum it's a pretty lazy effort.

Ugh everybody alive has a 50/50 shot at being scum, do not like. Gonna review d1 when I get back to my laptop.

Then 293 he is null on half the lobby, and again in 323

Saturday morning hot take:

I'm still sitting in null on too many people:

Toogelo, Vulture, Enchant

.

He then breaks down all of his reads in 336
:town are T3, Hockey, Luke, Hectic,
:scum are Marci,

Toog, Vulture, Enchant

Which the scum list is almost the exactly the same list that he had as null like 15 posts earlier, and this seems suspect to me. I guess it does not seem right that in 293, his concern was "I have too many null reads" and not "I don't have any scum reads." Especially since he had already been voicing the fact that he was aware that half of all non-confirmed players were scum from his pov.

---

I think I have been talked about Vulture a bit before this, do you want me to go back over him?

[Lukewarm]

His miss on Hectic "repping" in flagged me oddly too. It's not the kind of thing I'd expect Luke to miss; in my experience he's pretty meticulous. I wouldn't put it past him to manufacture a townslip like that, but as I mentioned earlier, I have a hard time reading Luke generally so I could be in full paranoia mode on that one.

New thing to add to my suspicions. Pav apparently just did a meta dive on me, is reading to sort me, but is not reading closely enough to catch that the hectic thing was very obviously a joke, but is even trying to use it as a reason to be suspicious of me?

[Lukewarm]

Me talking about Art being a hectic alt before the rep in (and art confirming)

Spoiler:

Art, I hate alt speculation, but T3 already did it (which, T3 stop outing peoples alts!)

Are you publicly known to be hectic?

Have you actually said anything about Art this game other than asking if he was an alt?

Probably not. Not really sure how to engage with his art posts lol

Out side of that, I think that Hectic is a good player, and of the player list is probably the person I would trust most with the gun. That is why he is on the tier he is in.

If he flips scum, an unreadable scum dies. If he is town, that a good player is holding the gun

My post about Hectic swapping in that Pav said was me "town slipping"

Hectic has repped in, if you need help catching up, just let me know

There is alike, a site rule about speculating about rep ins, but

I am going to assume that they don't apply here

, so let the speculation commence

And, like

the reason

I don't think the rules apply is because it was the same player repping in to the same slot

Me actively talking about the fact that hectic and art were the same person

Spoiler:

I think that the rep in makes hectic town.

I don't really think that there is a reason for scum!art to make the switch right now.

He was in no danger of being shot, and his art posts made it hard to read him, but in a way that you could not say was ai, because it was just the alt gimmick doing it.

So, maybe he would do it if his buddies were in danger, but I scrolled back to see who he might be saving, and I think marci scum reads were the most recent development happening in the thread, so the fact that she is the one he is pushing takes messes with that idea as well

Me pointing out that Pav missed the joke at the beginning, and so he apparently missed this twice too

Spoiler:

Hectic has repped in, if you need help catching up, just let me know

There is alike, a site rule about speculating about rep ins, but I am going to assume that they don't apply here, so let the speculation commence

?? Hectic is Art's alt, not really a rep-in?

/swoosh

[Lukewarm]

So, I guess it makes me question if he was iso diving me trying to sort my alignment. Or just iso diving me hunting for things to point out, which takes a less close reading

[Lukewarm]

I shot Marci because I thought there's a fairly decent scum case to be made on her, and I did not like her response to my intent and didn't answer me on scumcasing vulture before I pulled the trigger. If Marci flips town, my advice to her is that if she gets too unsure who to shoot, shoot the player who you trust the most. I'm not giving a final reads list because Marci may flip red.

Ngl this is a pretty scummy post though

VOTE: Galron

[Lukewarm]

Ugh everybody alive has a 50/50 shot at being scum, do not like

What do you mean, everyone alive has a 50/50 shot at being scum?

Everyone is a null read?

No I mean in a vacuum there are 4 scum to 8 shootable slots

I was getting ready to accuse you of tmi'ing how many scum there are, but double checked it is in the OP from the mod, and apparently I just missed it lol

4 seems like a lot for an 11 player game, but probably makes sense since we are nightless

Hmm, did you forget we were playing an open game

and did you look at the setup page when signing up in the queue?

I never looked at the setup from the queue. ArcAngel modded the last game that all of Me, Marci, Pav, and T3 played in, and she asked us to sign up for this on in the post game of that one, and I did just because she asked lol

And I already knew how popcorn worked, because in a discord conversation like a week before I in'ed Notscience, LLD, and Cabd were talking about the set up when aa9 first signed up to mod it. So, I understood the gun mechanic even before aa9 asked up to join her game

So, yeah, I missed the town / scum split

[Lukewarm]

Hectic and Pavowski are still where I'm leaning. Maybe Vulture instead of Hectic, but I don't feel as strongly there, though Hectic and Pav are just gut reads anyways. Spend some time looking at T3's iso if it helps you eliminate some possible misfires.

Can you talk to me about your Hectic read?

[Lukewarm]

Can you talk to me about your Hectic read?

Literally 7 posts before you asked this, to which Hectic replied over 3 posts.

Yeah, I was reading in order, and asked before I got there.

[Lukewarm]

@Marci, I dont know if this will help you at all, but I tried my best to compile how everyone is being read

This is everyone, but for some people, if I could not find an expressed read, I plugged it in as "null reads"

Enchant is read as scum by 2 people, null by 3, town by 1

Vulture is read as scum by 2 people, null by 2, town by 2

Hectic is read as scum by 1 people, null by 3, town by 2

Hockey is read as scum by 2/3 people, null by 1/2 , town by 2

Toog is read as scum by 1 people, null by 1,

town by 4

I am read as scum by 2/3 people, null by 2/3, town by 1

Pav is read as

scum by 5

people, null by 1 , town by 0

Spoiler: Notes on who is reading where

Enchant: Pav(SR) Hec(SR) Hoc(NR) Luke(TR) Toog (NR) Vult(NR)
Vulture: Pav(SR) Hec(TR) Hoc(TR) Luke(SR) Toog (NR) Ench (NR)
Hectic: Pav(NR) Hoc(TR) Luke(TR) Toog(SR) Ench (NR) Vult(NR)
Hockey : Pav(TR) Hec(TR) Luke(SR) Toog(SR/NR?) Ench(SR) Vult(NR)
Toog : Pav(TR) Hec(TR) Hoc(TR) Luke (TR) Ench(SR) Vult(NR)
Luke : Pav(NR) Hec(SR/NR) Hoc(SR) Toog (TR) Ench (NR) Vult(SR)
Pav : Hec(SR) Hoc(SR) Luke(SR) Toog (SR) Ench (NR) Vult(SR)

Things I noticed compiling this:

• Toog is fairly universally town read
  Pav is fairly universally scum read
  All of Toog, Enchant, and Vulture have very few expressed town reads, and I had to just plug in a lot of "null reads" on everyone out side of thier scum piles
  I am less widely town read then I thought I was x.x

(The partial votes are, Hectic's read on me, because he seems to be bouncing back and forth, and then Toog's read on Hockey because he said he should not make it to end game, but then was not in his most recent solve)

[Lukewarm]

Toog is fairly universally town read
Pav is fairly universally scum read

For both of these, it means that the scum are sitting with the same reads as the town on these slots.

All of Toog, Enchant, and Vulture have very few expressed town reads, and I had to just plug in a lot of "null reads" on everyone out side of thier scum piles

Can you 3 give like a full reads list?

[Lukewarm]

I guess I am trying to decide if I think that implies that we are wrong on Pav, and scum team is riding it, or are his partners bussing / letting him sink

[Lukewarm]

luke

r u scum yes or yes

I'm town

[Lukewarm]

Do you have any questions for me? I don't actually know how to help you right now :/

[Lukewarm]

I think you misread cuz I sr Pav

I have you down as scum reading pav? I think you are not understanding my chart.

[Lukewarm]

Whatever, I just bolded the part where is says Hockey: Pav(TR)

The chart was a list of how people were being read.

That means I have pav as town reading you. Not the other way around

Pav : Hec(SR)

Hoc(SR)

Luke(SR) Toog (SR) Ench (NR) Vult(SR)

I was trying to get a feel for if there were any consensus town or scum reads

[Lukewarm]

Hey, sorry. I am actively trying to move right now (and gonna be VLA for the next like 3 days). I read stuff from today, and have lots and lots of thoughts, but am phone posting, so won't be able to get a full case down until tonight after we settle down and stop working tonight.

spark notes, I think that I have been thinking about this game all wrong, and I think that Pav is actually town, and I think that hectic is actually scum.

Once I get back in front of my computer, I will type it up.

[Lukewarm]

Me realizing that I have been thinking about this game the wrong way: the wall post.

I put Hectic in the townbin when he alt switched into the game

Spoiler:

I think that the rep in makes hectic town.

I don't really think that there is a reason for scum!art to make the switch right now.

He was in no danger of being shot, and his art posts made it hard to read him, but in a way that you could not say was ai, because it was just the alt gimmick doing it.

So, maybe he would do it if his buddies were in danger, but I scrolled back to see who he might be saving, and I think marci scum reads were the most recent development happening in the thread, so the fact that she is the one he is pushing takes messes with that idea as well

And at the time, that just felt very true. There was no reason for scum!hectic to alt switch at that moment. But I think that that was the wrong way to think about it. Scum!hectic absolutely needed to switch at some point this game. As Art, he just simply would not have had the kind of thread presence that he has now. He could not switch too soon, or then it would raise the question of was playing at Art to begin with, but he needed to switch at some point. Also, part of that reasoning relied on my scum read of Marci, which x.x

Hectic swapped in, and has a bunch of rapid posts in a row. First, he scum cases T3 saying that he even tmi'ed Hockey town, town cased me, and then his final conclusion was that Marci was the best shot.

Spoiler:

Anyways, it feel like marci is the best shot here.

181 expressed liking Art and their point about Luke. It implies liking the point means some kind of agreement with it, in most cases

However, when Luke calls her out on it, she backpedals in 188, saying she only liked Art

having

the thought, and she's not sure if she agrees with it, which is a little more convoluted, and possibly her changing her stance since she knows Luke would see through agreeing with it

Since then, she's almost seemed a little afraid to express many reads/thoughts. The only one being in 321 where she says she's scumreading Enchant but doesn't elaborate

I don't think Luke is scum with marci for their interactions, and I don't think Hockey is scum with marci for 204/216/226. So, if correct, it'd be a very valuable flip

But we have tiiiimeee, so marci, if you're not scum, give us a power star; talk about your reads etc

So, at the time, I thought Marci was scum, so it did not seem like he was coming in to save her, so he was town. But I actually think that Hectic came in trying to save T3, and angle on getting Marci and Pav shot. Again, Hectic says that T3 is scummy, but every time he gives a reads list, either Marci or Pav are the ones on the bottom, not T3, even though he has posited that T3 tmi'ed hockey town, and keeps up the T3 scum read through out.

Every read list from Hectic up to T3's flip
:Opening flurry : T3 is scummy, lets shoot marci
:386 : T3 is scummy, lets shoot marci
:450 : T3 is scummy, lets shoot Pav
:504 : T3 is scummy, lets shoot Pav

And imo, his reasons for scum reading T3 seem pretty strong, for him to just happen to never be at the bottom of the list.

---

Back to him accusing T3 of tmi'ing Hockey. I think that Hockey is one of his partners, and was strongly trying to set up the idea of scum!T3=town!Hockey, to buy hockey deep into the game.

This takes a bit of a looK at T3. T3 is, in the nicest way possible, not a very strong scum player. One of the issues that he has, is that he is fairly widely known for always scum reading his partners. Like every game. It feels like he is unable to town read people that he knows are scum, like he cannot actually come up with good reasons to town read them, so he plants them in his scum leans instead. (I can provide links wrt this if you don't know that he has this issue, but doing a meta dive to prove it seems like a lot of effort, when you might just already know this)

But lets look at this game. Here are his reads:

Town: Pav, Hockey, Luke, Toog, Enchant, Vulture

Scum:

Marci

, Hectic

All 3 of T3's partners are in that list. So, clearly he put, at a minimum, 2 of his partners in his town reads. Which is very outside of T3's norm play style. I guess because there are so many scum in this set up, he had to try and change that up a bit.

So, this game, T3 is trying to give town reads to some of his scum partners, when he is not used to doing so, because town reading people he knows are scum is simply not something he is good at faking. Queue him town reading Hockey for dumb reasons.

Then see Toog linking the two of them together pretty early post 67. See me listing both T3 and Hockey as 2 of my top scum reads post 275

Hectic swapped in trying to save the game for the scum team. He says that T3 is scummy, but we should shoot marci or pav, but if T3 DOES die, he must have been tmi'ing hockey as town

Also, see Hectic completely townbinning Hockey because of T3's read, despite the scummy things that Hockey has done.

-----

I already pointed out some of my issues with Hockey independently and his response was... not great. He basically just OMGUS scum read me back, and tried to act like my reasons were nonsensical 612. Even after Toog agreed with me 599. Even after Hectic responded to say that it was a reasonable thing for people to be suspicious for (but also took the opportunity to shoot down the scum read there) 613 He still plants me as his most confident scum read, all based on that omgus

I think mafia team is pav/luke(his bad faith case on me combined with not that much contnet

Also, lol at the idea that scum!luke is a low content luke. Which btw, he should know isn't the case. He was in my first scum game. The game lasted until day 4. I died Day 2. Despite dying part way through the game, here is where it ended:

Spoiler:

-----

I think that this game makes a lot more sense in a Hectic+Hockey scum world. Them being scum heavily spews Pav and Toog as being town. Pav because he was one of the 2 designated misshots that hectic was pushing (the other being you) and then Toog because he is the first person who linked T3 and Hockey, and then when I mentioned it again, he sided with me on that (also, I was already town reading Toog)

So I am at Hectic+Hockey + probably vulture/maybe Enchant (his content has died down hard since I started thinking he was town)

[Lukewarm]

Hello. Am so very tired from moving, but have been skimming the thread on my phone lying in bed. Mixed feelings.

I will say once again, this set up is weird. Like Marci said she is considering targeting me, which on one hand gives me the gun, but on the other hand is still essentially mislim. Just on Marci not me. Which leaves me thinking, do I even town case myself here? Idk.

I also kind of wish that both my desktop and laptop were not both currently in a box / suit case somewhere in my current world of aillion boxes so I could actually grab all of the quotes I want to respond to from the last couple of days. But instead, this game is getting just my phone post ramblings.

First, the "town casing" Which is not actually town casing, as much as "hey, did people actually think about the things they said?" So far the only reasons I have seen people give for scum reading me: shitposting early on in the game (looping Marco's recent post into this one btw), having less content, being less analytical / not casing early on this game and

omgus from hockey

and I guess I am curious what makes people think that makes more sense to come from scum me, then town me? I have a completed scum game that pav and hockey were both in, and I am pretty sure Marci read (at least parts of), and I don't think anyone would describe my scum game as marked by shitposting or by being low content, or being less analytical, or not constantly casing various slots. So I guess it feels like people are jumping from "different " to "scum" without thinking all that much about it.

Anyways. Marci, I came into this game expecting (and hoping for) a meme game. Similar to that exploder panamonium game you played and asked me to read. I kinda expected this game to last like, a week, regardless of which side won or not. So, signing up for a meme game was my expectation. To the point that I was thinking about who I would hip shoot if I started with the gun first, and then made a snazzy image using my favorite still from sailor moon. Btw, both the image and the target were picked out before I ever received a role pm (so I think that it would have been my first post even if I rolled scum lol. Just because like, that was my plan if town, ya know)

And over time, the game got more serious, and so I started getting more serious too. Which, tangent, is a big part of why I town read enchant for this. When I looked at his iso, I felt like I was looking at that same kind of journey through out the game , and they say similar thought implies similar alignments, so I get town vibes from that. His recent "I would roll dice to decide who to shoot" though, really does not sit well with me, and the "similar thoughts" idea is a bit blow out of the way with this, because that is so wildly opposite of where I am at this point.

Anyways, I am rambling (but also not trimming because not gonna edit on phone. Sorrynotsorry)

Re centering my thoughts I wanted to get out there, incase you are looking to make your choice before I spend most of tomorrow unpacking and actually get back to the thread with a proper computer x.x.

Hectic + hockey scum.

These last few posts from hectic were WILD. In a, is he really trying to call me scum for the things that he is doing?? Kind of way.

Specifically, he accuses me of wildy changing up my reads on him when the things I pointed out all came from earlier in the thread, with no new information. Self motivated I believe he called it (yeah, yeah, he corrected it to scum motivated, but self motivated is more accurate lol)

When, like, look at his "vision quest" he went on wrt to pav. He goes from pav is just scum here to an entire solve that did not involve pav with no new input from anyone. And imo, it is wild to see someone have that kind of blatant read shake up, and then turn around and say that that kind of read shake up is scummy.

Anyways. I would like to say that I did have new information. I town binned hectic early, and I don't think i was properly questioning that enough. The first thing that kind of pinged me was his "I don't think we have to worry about that this game" comment to hockey about the lamist points I made about him. In a "I just don't understand how hectic can be so sure, becausr it worries me"" kind of way. And then I saw Toog put hectic in his scum pile and hectic turn around and put Toog in his team solve. I had them both in the town bin and suddenly them both cross scum read one another was kind of a "I might be missing something" moment. And then his entire read reversal on pav seemed strange, at the time looked like it could be "scum came up with a new path to victory" then a real transition. So, I looked back over hectic, which I really had not done since I town binned him. And looking back at his iso, now knowing that you (Marci) are conftown and that t3 is confscum, I spotted the earlier stuff... Hense my case on hectic

But you want to know a read progression that does not make sense to me.
Hectic, starts having worries about me for being "less analytical" (which again...). So he is considering a scumluke team. Brand new solve for him. ->
He sees my post where I said I was thinking about the game wrong ->
Gladiate!

The biggest concerns for me there are first that I have not even made a case yet at this point. Without seeing my thoughts to look at them to gauge if they were genuine, the mere idea that I was swapping to a scum read on him meant he was ready to bet the whole game on his brand new read? Which, to be clear, he was claiming to be so sure that he was willing to bet the whole game. In the world of town!hectic, if he If you shot him first, and he instantly shoots me. Of he is wrong, town loses

So I guess I don't see the genuine town thought processes behind seeing exactly that post "been thinking about the game wrong, will write it all out tonight" and think, "aha! I have caught scum, and I am so sure that I will bet the game on it" -- and I think it was actually designed to preempt and discredit the case I had coming.

Anyways. I can't think of anything else that stood out to me when I read through tonight.

All in all, I think hectic is just scum here. From the alt switch to dosing t3 but angling for misshots on you/pav instead of him, to blindly town locking hockey, to his "vision quest" to his preemptive gladiate. It all screams scum to me.

Side note, he has HARD town binned hockey for the entire game since t3 flipped. Gone so far as to say that t3 tmi'ed him town. Put hockey in the top of his town reads in every read list since, and dismissed voiced suspicions on him. And now hockey suddenly swings all the way in to his team solve? This was the other "is he accusing me of what he is doing? Moment, when he said that I was scum reading hockey because I knew I would die soon, and wanted to distance from a partner. Well here we are, the first time hectic had ever been in danger of being targeted, and that is when the read switched x.x

------

Marci, if you got any questions for me, let me know, but i think I hav managed to ramble out all of my thoughts at this point.

You should be shooting who ever you think is scummiest person. If I get the gun, I am pretty sure that I am shooting hectic at this point.

[Lukewarm]

Like, saying stuff like “Hectic didn’t wait on a case from me to decide that I’m scum... so he’s scum” is the sort of thing that I don’t follow really? Why does someone need to wait for more thoughts from you if they’ve already decided you’re scum from the other thoughts you’ve put into the thread?

What a fucking mis rep.

I said that going from "here is my scum team" to "I will bet the game on this read" from before post 787 to after post 787 is wild, and not a real thought. does not seem real. Not a genuine trajectory. Scum motivated

You jumping past all of the other things that make me suspicious of hectic both in this post and my last one, trying to narrow it down to just is a wild misrep.

[Lukewarm]

I am leaning back to vulture >enchant on that last slot

[Lukewarm]

This is one issue I have with your scumread on Hectic, not all of them. You made some weird posts that were tonally Bad that I picked up on as well. Like, bad-bad. He locks you in on that and you are saying here that it’s scummy that he didn’t wait to scumread you is my interpretation, but my problem with that is that you have an iso’s worth of stuff to read so him scumreading you and feeling confident isn’t an issue? He gauged that you weren’t genuine prior to whatever case you were and it’s a reach to say that he was trying to discredit you before you even made it when his read was based on old content.

I feel like you are completely missing the point I am making...

If you are town, actually stop and think about if for a second. It is like you have seen every single post I have made all game as scummy, which, even scum make an occasional townie post. (If you are scum trying to distract, more power to you)

I'm gonna spell it out one more time. First, look at post 773

Spoiler:

Inspired new solve:

Lukewarm + Enchant + Toogeloo

I reread Hockey and Vulture both again but I still think they're both town. T3 whiteknight of Hockey is a big factor for him. While, Vulture's 1v1 with Luewarm (assuming I am correct on Luke) is a big factor for him. Which leaves Toogeloo

Hectic has come up with a new solve. But do you know what is not here? A fucking gladiate. When hectic came up with 773 he was not "so sure on Luke being scum he was ready to bet the entire game on it." If anything, he leaves some wiggle room with that "assuming I am correct on Luke" line.

Now look at his very next post, 792

Spoiler:

lol I made all those posts in bed right after waking up, Pav. Glad you enjoyed them

This is such a delightful day for me

Luke points out I'm pretty much universally scum read and all of a sudden people are diving off the boat

I wonder what the PT looks like right now

It is interesting that you were a consensus scumread, I townread you, and you're now almost a consensus townread (you owe it all to me obv)

I'll think about this more seriously when gain the motivation again

Anyway,

Gladiate: Lukewarm

I request you shoot Luke or I today, marci

Now he is ready to bet the entire game on his read on me. That transition is what I am saying looks Bad to me, and does not make sense. Here is 100% of what I said between those 2 posts.

Spoiler:

Hey, sorry. I am actively trying to move right now (and gonna be VLA for the next like 3 days). I read stuff from today, and have lots and lots of thoughts, but am phone posting, so won't be able to get a full case down until tonight after we settle down and stop working tonight.

spark notes, I think that I have been thinking about this game all wrong, and I think that Pav is actually town, and I think that hectic is actually scum.

Once I get back in front of my computer, I will type it up.

That's it. And I (we) are supposed to believe that that post moved Hectic from "I'm thinking like is scum, but if he flips town I should revisit the reasons I am town reading vulture" to "like is so clearly scum that I am gonna bet the game on it?"

I was not saying that hectic scum reading me was a smoking gun against him. But his transition from 773 -> 792 looks pretty damning from my pov.

Looking at it now, I think he might have even been setting you up for the next miselim to win the game in 773. Get Marci to shoot Luke. Luke gets the gun. Turn around and say, Luke, I had it backwards. You were right about vulture, and I was just town reading him because I thought he was the town in your 1v1 that looked tvs, but now that you are conftown, I see I had it backwards. (Remember, I was town reading him when he wrote that post, so he would not have assumed I would just shoot him at the time of 773). I don't think it would have taken much to push me into shooting vulture if I got the gun pre like post 770.

The vulture follow up was something I missed the first time. Maybe it is just enchant for the third?

Idk. I am most sure about hectic + hockey, we can sort the last slot post flips.

[Lukewarm]

t3s vulture stuff interests me so much its so tempting.. i want to so bad...

but like its not the best move, yes?

Is that your strongest scum read?

What makes you say off hand that it is not the best?

[Lukewarm]

I would rather you not wait out the clock

Like whether you plan to shoot inside [me + hectic] or go with your gut on vulture, or whatever you decide. I just think that the thread is probably dead until you shoot.

luckily this is not Elo, so you don't have to worry about losing the game, so maybe that can give you a little less pressure on yourself?

[Lukewarm]

Hey, Luke, do you think you're out of your scumrange? If yes, then what part? Also, have you ever faked townslips as scum before, and is it something that you would consider doing as scum?

I don't know? I have only been scum in 2 games so far, and one of them was a bit of a meme game that only lasted like 4 irl days, so I don't really know that my scum range is really well defined yet, even for me to be able to answer the question.

If there was anything out of my scum range, *maybe* 823? In my scum games so far, I have been really purposeful with my posts, so I don't know that I would make a long rambley 4am thought dump post? But like I said, not enough data for a definitive answer lol

As for town slipping, no. I don't think I would ever fake one as scum. I think of myself as a fairly detailed person, and (I think) I give off that vibe, so faking a town slip feels like it would be pretty bad strategically. I think people would kind of doubt I missed what ever I faked missing, and if anything would cause people to suspect me more then town bin me for a slip.

(See pav thinking I was more likely scum because I made a joke about your rep in, and him positing that town luke would never miss that lol)

[Lukewarm]

Hmm, why are you so confident I'm scum?

To be frank, your gladiate.

I was not 100% sold you were scum before that. I had a brand new suspicion and wanted to get it out there since I had town binned you before, and I assumed that Marci would be weighing my reads in her decision making. Did not want her ignoring you and shooting pav because thats how my reads were sitting before. So I put short "sparknotes" post saying my reads were changing on the two of you.

Then I saw your gladiate before I got a chance to put out what was making me reconsider, and I could not imagine being so sure on a read that I would bet the entire game on it, and ESPECIALLY since you had just expressed mild uncertainty on me, or at least how your read might change if you were wrong. So, that pushed that suspicion way up. A gladiate on like day 1 would have been +town imo. But that gladiate you did was "if I am wrong, I will lose the game," so seemed less real of a transition. -- And I could see a scum motivation for it.

[Lukewarm]

What townie actively WANTS to be the deciding vote in Elo?

When you asked her for the gun, and when you did the gladiate, that is what you were asking for x.x

So, like I said, and early gladiate / asking for the gun is probably + town. But doing this day phase seemed more likely to be bravado

[Lukewarm]

Does it change your opinion knowing why my confidence levels changed?

Ftr I would not immediately shoot if marci shot me. The gladiate was me wanting marci to either shoot my top confident scumread or me so that I could get the gun and finally have some fun, it wasn't me betting the game on you being scum since I still would've questioned you and made sure before pulling the trigger. (And I would expect you to do the same)

And I know, it's selfish in some way to want the gun just because it's more fun but it is what it is

Ugh.... I would need to look at your posts tonight vs your posts at the time when sitting in front of a computer. (I am once again laying in bed phone posting, but I should be setting my computer back up tomorrow)

My gut reaction to your posts tonight is that you are still scum though. Coming up with a plausible reason for an unexplained transaction like 2 days after the fact can certainly be done as scum, and even if we were to wipe away the gladiate and how that pushed me to more certain, there is still all of the stuff that made me become suspicious of you to begin with...

I plan on giving the game a closer look back once I am fully back from my vla and have a pc to look at, but, gth in this moment I still think you are scum.

[Lukewarm]

To be frank, I don't think I ever gladiate you as scum. My aim as scum would absolutely be to endgame. To gladiate you is very unnecessary cutting my lifetime short for absolutely no good reason, since it means marci is much more likely to shoot me, and it would also likely make you much more likely to shoot me if marci shot you

It's an okay strat if my slot is already fairly scumread, but at the time, I was still pretty townread and to throw all that away is just bad scumplay

I'll add this to my list of things to look back on.

I already had the thought that you might have planned on trying to get me to shoot vulture after Marci shot me, which in a scumhectic / town vulture world would end the game in a scum win. Which is something I am adding to my "look into" list for that proper reread that I really need to do.

[Lukewarm]

do u think i should shoot within u/luke?
i kinda dont wanna but like if itll help town i will..

honestly, I think they're both a better shot than enchant so yes, you should

This post feels slimy.

Hectic has stopped wanting me to be the shot, and I am wanting to look back over hectic tomorrow. And this is hockeys response.

And why? Because enchant is a bad shot.

Hockey, what is your opinion on shots inside of the other half of the player base [vulture, Toog, pav, you]

[Lukewarm]

Marci asked "should I shoot in hectic/luke"

And you answered the question " are luke and hectic better shots then enchant"

That's not the same thing x.x

[Lukewarm]

You Ninja'd me with you reads

[Lukewarm]

So your reads are. Toog, pav, and vulture all varying degrees of town?

Wouldn't that force all 3 of me, hectic, and enchant to be scum from your pov?

Do you think me and hectic are partnered?

If you think it is only 1 of us, then at least 1 of your town reads would have to be scum, right?

[Lukewarm]

i think somebody whos townreading toogeloo is bsing that read

527is my biggest reason to tr Toog

I don't think scum Toog ever makes this case on hectic?

Like it is such a weird angle, and what scum does a meta dive like that to take such a weird angle to push?

[Lukewarm]

Got Ninja'd again. Phone posting slows me down so much x.x

[Lukewarm]

Scum!Toog doesn't use that case to push me, Luke. He posts it to look towny

It shows he actually bothered to look through my post history and think about it which is slightly +town

The "bothered to look through" your posts is the point I was making.

Imo, scum are a bit lazy. They are looking in thread for reasons to fake a scum read, but this would imply that Toog actually went and did a full meta dive on you all the way back to July. And that seems like a lot, when he could just fake scum read someone else, or you for some other reason

[Lukewarm]

When he looked, my only posts as Hectic back to July were mod posts in Yin and Yang, this was also before any PTs were released. It wasn't actually a lot to look through.

Have you not been in games?

I saw "looked through a month and a half of all posts on site" and thought, yeah, that guy's town

I was also vaguely leaning town before that, but would need to reread his earlier iso to remember why. That post supplanted all prior reasons to think Toog was town lol

[Lukewarm]

So your reads are. Toog, pav, and vulture all varying degrees of town?

Yes

Wouldn't that force all 3 of me, hectic, and enchant to be scum from your pov?

Do you think me and hectic are partnered?

No, but you 2 are indiuivial scummy. Im not looking TOO much into parnters rnn. Also cuz I tr the others

If you think it is only 1 of us, then at least 1 of your town reads would have to be scum, right?

Does it not concern you that this means you must be wrong on one of your town reads?

Also, if you think that it is 1 of us + enchant + 1 person who slipped into your town reads, it seems a little strange for you to be so strongly against shooting enchant.

Didn't you just say you were confident in your town reads? (Would pull quote if not on phone ) A town enchant would require 2 of your 3 town reads to be wrong, right?

[Lukewarm]

This is strictly a prodge post. I still like shooting in Luke/Hectic. I don't have a lot to add except to say that Luke's tone has shifted here. Could be indignant town, could be flailing scum. My money's on the latter.

A hero

I'll be here twiddling my thumbs, no way am I gonna put in the effort to dismantle Luke's case/words when I can just shoot him lol

I resonate with this so much LOL. Like idk, my townreads are pretty much locked in, just needs flips to happen rn

Here it is

[Lukewarm]

So your reads are. Toog, pav, and vulture all varying degrees of town?

Yes

Wouldn't that force all 3 of me, hectic, and enchant to be scum from your pov?

Do you think me and hectic are partnered?

No, but you 2 are indiuivial scummy. Im not looking TOO much into parnters rnn. Also cuz I tr the others

If you think it is only 1 of us, then at least 1 of your town reads would have to be scum, right?

Does it not concern you that this means you must be wrong on one of your town reads?

wdym

Also, if you think that it is 1 of us + enchant + 1 person who slipped into your town reads, it seems a little strange for you to be so strongly against shooting enchant.

Frankly, I think we get more info if we shoot one of you/hectic based on your guys flips.

Didn't you just say you were confident in your town reads? (Would pull quote if not on phone ) A town enchant would require 2 of your 3 town reads to be wrong, right?

Yes, but I am not entertaining that idea rn

[/
quote]

1 - there are 3 scum. You have 3 town reads and 3 scum reads. BUT you don't think that me and hectic are partners, so one of your town reads must be scum, right?

3 - you said it would be bad if he got the gun, which would mean you are entertaining it...

(Side note, I really don't like the responses inside the quote box thing. It's something grandpamo does too, bit I feel like it makes it impossible for me to snip conv chains to reasonable lengths x.x)

[Lukewarm]

cuz if enchant is town, its like ....

yes, but I think I trust both of you with the gun more, and if you guys are scum, then pog

Relevant quotes for my last post

[Lukewarm]

I'm not willing to bet there is one scum in Hectic/Luke. My concern is that Marci shoots Hectic and he is town, and then he shoots Luke who is also town.

I've been toiling around with the possibility that the scum team is Enchant, Hockey, and Vulture for the past 24 hours.

I'd rather Marci shoot me then Hectic or Luke since I would probably shoot Enchant, then Hockey, and then hash out the final shot after that if I'm right.

If that is your concern, why did you wait until after hectic stopped gladiating me voice it x.x

[Lukewarm]

Nice job marci

[Lukewarm]

I actually like Hockey's 899 because it feels uninformed and bold to say something like that if you're Enchant's partner

I, uhh. Had the opposite reaction to that post.

If you really are town, then it looked like he was trying to keep the shot inside the two of us. I also followed up with him to work through why he would be concerned about a possible enchant flip, given his reads, and it did not really make sense to me.

That being said, him trying to keep the shot inside of you/me when you were starting to try and move away from your gladiate makes you less likely to be partners I think.

[Lukewarm]

This is strictly a prodge post. I still like shooting in Luke/Hectic. I don't have a lot to add except to say that Luke's tone has shifted here. Could be indignant town, could be flailing scum. My money's on the latter.

A hero

I'll be here twiddling my thumbs, no way am I gonna put in the effort to dismantle Luke's case/words when I can just shoot him lol

I am also unsure how to feel about Hectic's turn around on the gladiate :/

[Lukewarm]

I think that my solve atm is

One of [Hockey+Hectic] + Vulture

[Lukewarm]

This is strictly a prodge post. I still like shooting in Luke/Hectic. I don't have a lot to add except to say that Luke's tone has shifted here. Could be indignant town, could be flailing scum. My money's on the latter.

A hero

I'll be here twiddling my thumbs, no way am I gonna put in the effort to dismantle Luke's case/words when I can just shoot him lol

I am also unsure how to feel about Hectic's turn around on the gladiate :/

Some thoughts here.

His reason for turn around felt strange to me. Because I made some high effort posts, I might not be scum?

I have 2 scum games. He pointed to the one that was a bit of a meme game that lasted 4 irl days, and said that I did not effort as much in that game, but I feel like I was very high effort in the newbie game. So I don't know if he was just looking for a reason to back down, or if he really did just look at the short game, or if he also looked at the newbie game and thought I was also showing less effort in that game then here?

And the turn around did come after Marci said that she would shoot Hectic if she shot inside of [me+hectic]...

But on the other hand, he backed down in a way that set up meta expectations for other people. Like, "based on meta, luke is outside of his scum range" feels like a dangerous thing to try and walk back later. And he also hard pivoted into Enchant.

So, I would shoot hockey or vulture > hectic atm?

[Lukewarm]

I'm a bit less confident there's scum between Luke and Hectic than I was a few days ago, but I'll slap my mama if they're a team

Well do you have a surprise coming for you.

[Lukewarm]

I'm a bit less confident there's scum between Luke and Hectic than I was a few days ago, but I'll slap my mama if they're a team

Well do you have a surprise coming for you.

Are you implying that I'm gonna have to slap my mama?

That was the joke, yes

[Lukewarm]

Marci, did you ever say what you saw in t3's iso that made you suspect vulture?

He has been near sitting in my scum reads for a while, but mainly for how he has been interacting with me.

If you got more evidence, would like to see it

[Lukewarm]

t3s vulture stuff interests me so much its so tempting.. i want to so bad...

but like its not the best move, yes?

This?

[Lukewarm]

Hi hello Sorry, Im here. I looked through Vultures iso in regards to t3/enchant and dont think they are partners

Why?

[Lukewarm]

Vulutres logs on t3

Spoiler:

(T3 isn't gonna have a good answer for you, Galron, because he's scum.)

Sring/throwing shade at a scum partner doesnt seem too likely this early on

Hockey is screaming newbtown and Art should know better than this.
VOTE: art

Newbies being all over the place and having complex thoughts like that is very strongly town indicative.

For example. ^

Decides that he is going to defend Hockey because complex thoughts (when 177 isn't complex and there are other things you could say about it if you feasibly wanted to townread it, like the fact that Hockey mentally went "I am agreeing with T3 on Luke... but T3/Luke is a pairing" not even bothering to present himself as town because he knows it; complex is a buzzword meant to sound like you're reading into things when you're not) and thus, because Art does not agree, goes after Art without trying to engage beyond "you know better".

Everything's shallow from T3. Not-complex, if you want.

Again, I dont think this is a scum interaction, and iirc Vulture's first push of the game was t3 and that just doesnt happen from scum buddies

*Waves hands at whatever this is.*

Same as above point

T3, sorry if I don't put a ton of stock in your op marci meta tell

Spoiler:

I can usually read marci really well hold up

Using my OP marci tell I'm putting her at strong townread.

marcistar

,

Mafia Goon

, eliminated on Day 3

fine lol
marci is really really really indecisive as scum and never vibereads anyone.

You are so incredibly wrong.

Or lying, but, you know.

TAKING TIME TO DISCREDIT T3 META READ ON Marci makes vulture omega town imo

T3 logs on vulture

Spoiler:

I suggest you shoot Galron Art or Vulture unless someone develops a strong opinion against that.

t3 wants to shoot Vulture early on

Hey.

Hello.

What's up?

A vulture.

This is the only /akward/ interaction between the 2 but dt its scum

Well Vulture is expressing a mindmeld with Art which is kinda wtf
I agree that Art/Vulture seems too level 1 but with the mindmeld thing Art!scum strongly implies Vulture!scum but not the other way around. I have my independent reasons for scumreading Art so this very strongly implies Vulture!scum. I know I said I townread Vulture but as noted, the reasonscan be bad/invalid.

Calling vulture scum

I don't think that anything in t3's iso would lead me to think he could not be partners with vulture. (You even completely missed where t3 called vulture town by meta....)

But I guess I looked more closely in t3's then in vultures...

I can see that looks less partnery. Unless the scum team was on board for a t3 bus

[Lukewarm]

On board early I mean

[Lukewarm]

Toog is town town ready

I'm leaning town on pav as well.

So, I think they are both in (hectic, hockey, and vulture)

I'm less sure who is the most likely pair inside of that tho

[Lukewarm]

If I had to choose one shot atm....

I don't know if I would shoot hectic or one of [hockey / vulture] tho.

Hectic is probably the best person of the three to have the gun if we shoot wrong, so maybe him just for that reason?

[Lukewarm]

Toog is town town ready

This was supposed to say "Toog is a town read" and like I know I'm phon roosting, but togg is town town ready is an odd way for that to end up. I kind of like it tho.

Toog can be town town ready for now

[Lukewarm]

Jesus Christ

[Lukewarm]

does everyne townread luke

I think more people are scum reading me then are town reading me atm

[Lukewarm]

Vulutres logs on t3

Spoiler:

(T3 isn't gonna have a good answer for you, Galron, because he's scum.)

Sring/throwing shade at a scum partner doesnt seem too likely this early on

Hockey is screaming newbtown and Art should know better than this.
VOTE: art

Newbies being all over the place and having complex thoughts like that is very strongly town indicative.

For example. ^

Decides that he is going to defend Hockey because complex thoughts (when 177 isn't complex and there are other things you could say about it if you feasibly wanted to townread it, like the fact that Hockey mentally went "I am agreeing with T3 on Luke... but T3/Luke is a pairing" not even bothering to present himself as town because he knows it; complex is a buzzword meant to sound like you're reading into things when you're not) and thus, because Art does not agree, goes after Art without trying to engage beyond "you know better".

Everything's shallow from T3. Not-complex, if you want.

Again, I dont think this is a scum interaction, and iirc Vulture's first push of the game was t3 and that just doesnt happen from scum buddies

*Waves hands at whatever this is.*

Same as above point

T3, sorry if I don't put a ton of stock in your op marci meta tell

Spoiler:

I can usually read marci really well hold up

Using my OP marci tell I'm putting her at strong townread.

marcistar

,

Mafia Goon

, eliminated on Day 3

fine lol
marci is really really really indecisive as scum and never vibereads anyone.

You are so incredibly wrong.

Or lying, but, you know.

TAKING TIME TO DISCREDIT T3 META READ ON Marci makes vulture omega town imo

T3 logs on vulture

Spoiler:

I suggest you shoot Galron Art or Vulture unless someone develops a strong opinion against that.

t3 wants to shoot Vulture early on

Hey.

Hello.

What's up?

A vulture.

This is the only /akward/ interaction between the 2 but dt its scum

Well Vulture is expressing a mindmeld with Art which is kinda wtf
I agree that Art/Vulture seems too level 1 but with the mindmeld thing Art!scum strongly implies Vulture!scum but not the other way around. I have my independent reasons for scumreading Art so this very strongly implies Vulture!scum. I know I said I townread Vulture but as noted, the reasonscan be bad/invalid.

Calling vulture scum

The more that I think about this, the weirder it is that Hockey just left these posts out when he said he was putting interactions between the two

Spoiler:

I metadived Vulture and looked at his games. Town Vulture usually posts scummy and devoid of content sounding one-liners but will occasionally interject with a longer post that has content. This seems to be the same a Vulture this game. This read holds less merit for 2 reasons.
1. He's an alt.
2. He doesn't have a scumgame on this account.
If I'm right about who he is then I've played with him a bit on his other alts but I don't think it matters because the play doesn't match up.

I metadived Vulture and looked at his games. Town Vulture usually posts scummy and devoid of content sounding one-liners but will occasionally interject with a longer post that has content. This seems to be the same a Vulture this game. This read holds less merit for 2 reasons.
1. He's an alt.
2. He doesn't have a scumgame on this account.
If I'm right about who he is then I've played with him a bit on his other alts but I don't think it matters because the play doesn't match up.

So whats your read on Vulture based on this game?

I'm up to 3 names on my hipfire list.

The people you want to hipfire are presumably people you SR, so whats the point of hiding this info from town

Lean town.

Well Vulture is expressing a mindmeld with Art which is kinda wtf
I agree that Art/Vulture seems too level 1 but with the mindmeld thing Art!scum strongly implies Vulture!scum but not the other way around. I have my independent reasons for scumreading Art so this very strongly implies Vulture!scum. I know I said I townread Vulture but as noted, the reasonscan be bad/invalid.

And then he characterizes this post as calling vulture scum. When what it really says is "IF art is scum, THEN vulture is scum"


Which looking at that post again, kind of does make hectic less likely to be scum.

I am liking the Hockey+Vulture solve a bit more.

[Lukewarm]

Also, marci. Please shoot soon

[Lukewarm]

This game really drags

[Lukewarm]

I don't mind if you just shoot me, I'll take the gun just so I can get reinvested in the game.

Since you shot enchant correctly, shooting me incorrectly would not force me to take the elo shot, so getting the gun is no longer so scary lol

[Lukewarm]

I lied, there are 3 options, you could also just shoot Luke on principle

On what principle? Lol

[Lukewarm]

im lowkey scared guys

Marci, atm there is no bad shot.

We have a couple misshoots, so if you shoot scum, great!

If you shoot town, well you remove them from the Poe, and anyone scum reading that person has to reset.

The next person with the guy won't even be an Elo shot, so you don't really have to worry about shooting someone with bad reads.

[Lukewarm]

yeah but like if i shoot a townie ill feel even dumber than i already do

Why do you feel dumb? You shot enchant lol

[Lukewarm]

1.Hectic
2.Vulture

7.Lukewarm
8.Pavowski
9.marcistar
10.HockeyFan
11.Toogelo

[Lukewarm]

1.Hectic
2.Vulture

7.Lukewarm
8.Pavowski
9.marcistar
10.HockeyFan
11.Toogelo

oh ez i only want 3 of these dead rn

Then fire away

[Lukewarm]

I recently discovered that there is a marci game where she did not cast her first vote of the game until post 500 and something.

She takes her time to decide lol

[Lukewarm]

i like really dont know which shot i would prefer tho

like sure theres the 3, but which one do i want dead the most idk

If you have it down to 3 people, just choose randomly from that list

Like

X
Y
Z

Roll a dice
1-2 shoot x
3-4 shoot y
5-6 shoot z

[Lukewarm]

rng bad maybe i should shoot u for suggesting it

I mean, I said do rng AFTER you limited it to people you wanted to kill, not blind rng

But sure!

I'm just tired of waiting :/

[Lukewarm]

There have been so many posts just asking you to choose. And it seems like you are struggling to make the choice

[Lukewarm]

Damn, I thought I was gonna get the gun x x

But probably a decent shot

[Lukewarm]

Marci the gun-bearer finally decided to shoot!

Not the mod shade

[Lukewarm]

I think this puts me at [hectic+vulture]

I really think that Toog is town.

Maybe I should revisit Pav?

[Lukewarm]

I don't think that Pav is ever partners with Hectic tho, and hectic dropping in my reads is part of why Pav moved up...

Maybe its Pav+Vulture ??

I kinda scum cased Pav earlier, but I put him down as town once the hectic gladiate happened.....


If hockey does hip-fire me, then I am probably just shooting vulture, and then buying us leeway on whether it is pav or hectic as the partner

[Lukewarm]

If you say so, but being the elo shot is scary x.x

[Lukewarm]

I kinda wish Marci has shot me, that feel better then being shot here

[Lukewarm]

Marci, did you ever say what you saw in t3's iso that made you suspect vulture?

He has been near sitting in my scum reads for a while, but mainly for how he has been interacting with me.

If you got more evidence, would like to see it

t3s vulture stuff interests me so much its so tempting.. i want to so bad...

but like its not the best move, yes?

This?

i never said but like
im too tired to try to explain it rn

I kind of wish that marci had explained this before she fired :/

[Lukewarm]

I kinda forgot that was a hanging question I had for her x.x

[Lukewarm]

RIP Marci.

Uh... I said I would try to get back into this but my reads remain.

The only weird thing is what Hockey pointed out about Luke / me because a green flip should set off alarm bells in his head given the dynamic we have had this game.

I don’t know if he’s writing that off as a thing because he scumreads Luke or what have you.

I probably end up at Pav/Toog if Luke is town fwiw. I haven’t read back deeply through how Luke and Hectic interacted and the flipping around of reads there though so it’s subject to change. If Luke is scum which is where I’m at then it’s probably just Toog for me atm.

What does the bolded mean? Are you trying to anti-pair yourself with Luke? seems kinda odd?

Also, the progression of peoples reads on Hectic is so ???. Like people hard trd him, started shading him a bit, and then back to him not being in your poe. like wtf. i think hectic is town BECAUSE of this

Strangely enough, I think he is saying that town me SHOULD make you think that he is scum, which ????

Is he trying to get shot?

[Lukewarm]

I think Hockey should hipfire at you, we're at a point in the game state that you being fired at is healthy.

If you say so, but being the elo shot is scary x.x

What do you make of Toog asking Hocket to shoot you, Luke? Does it change you read on them at all?

I guess I read him asking as "good for the game state" not that he thinks I am scum, which I can see.

I think everyone else is scum reading me, so there is a decent chance that if anyone other then Toog gets the gun next, that they would shoot me. So looking at the game state, shooting me now feels better then being the misshot at Elo. That is how I took his post, which did not seem too terrible.

Toog, is that basically what you were saying?

[Lukewarm]

Luke and Hockey, I'd like to hear from both of you the best reason for why Toog is town

Considering the earlier discussion about why the Art look through isn't actually that much effort
And their 935 still pings me a lot (957 - explanation)

Phone posting again, so this is the best town case I can do

I was vaugely leaning town on Toog during the the early parts of the day. Definitely not playing to look town, and being a bit cagey. Which I associate cagey with town, because scum are actively trying to appease people.

Then, that stuff about meta diving you. Seemed pretty +town to me.

And then, when I was getting pushed really hard, it felt like he was the only one town reading me, and trying to direct the shoot away from me. When scum could have just, let me be shot.

[Lukewarm]

I am shooting within the next 7 hours.

**Checks Watch**

[Lukewarm]

Oh thank god

[Lukewarm]

Maybe our real friends were the pagetops we made along the way?

Page Top Count

Luke

........|

10

Pav...........| 7
Hockey......| 7
Vulture......| 5
Hectic........| 4
Enchant.....| 3
T3............| 3
Toog.........| 2
AA9..........| 1
Not_Mafia.| 1
Glaron......| 1
Marci........| 1

So, who is the real winner here?

Really makes you think

[Lukewarm]

When hectic was given the gun, I saw a chance for Hectic to shoot Toog and Toog to shoot Pav. But then Toog and Pav just kept posting when Vulture wasn't able to be on, and that window to victory closed :/

[Lukewarm]

I don't think that this game is very fun for scum :/

I just felt so powerless the entire time. The scum having no ability to kill feels pretty bad. And it is such a hard line to walk, because even if you manage to convince the town to kill someone, if you did it loud enough, that person is likely to turn around and shoot you.

When I joined this game, I really entered under the assumption that I was going to be town and that this was going to be a meme game that ended in like ~10 days. And then neither thing happened

[Lukewarm]

gg all, I think that everyone played great

And thanks for modding aa9!

[Lukewarm]

If I knew that art was hectic, I would have given him the gun Day 1 :/

My reasoning for giving it to Not_Mafia was that he is pretty good at scum hunting (but normally struggles to get town to follow him, but that did not matter this game) and he was always getting shot at some point. SOMEONE was going to shoot him. If he was going to get the gun, I wanted him to get it when there was the least amount of info for him to scum hunt with.

Which, for Hectic, similarly, I would have wanted him to have the gun and get out of the game as soon as possible. How hectic differed from Not_Mafia is that he was not going to get shot early and does have the ability to get town to follow him. So, by not giving him the gun off the bat, he was able to live long enough to solve the puzzle, and give town winning directions.

This would have been a very different game if I had known that Hectic was Art

[Lukewarm]

Thanks to the scumteam. You guys were chill.

Thanks, you too!

I felt like you and I did a LOT of work towards looking like we could not be partners...

but then my interactions with hectic overshadowed it, and my interactions with Pav mattered more, so it was all for naught.

Still, looking through our isos, I don't think I would ever guess the other one was a partner.

[Lukewarm]

Luke signed up for any games starting soon?

No reason

I joined 2 games, but they both filled already

[Lukewarm]

August 30th, 2021 Touhou Mafia Upick

mod:

unwnd

status:

Pre-phase, 0 Pages.

replacing:

Ampharos

A pre-inned user had to change commitment, therefore her slot is now open.

One of them apparently needs a pregame replacement tho!