Large Normal 235: Large Normal With No Multiball [Game Over]

[Dragon of the West]

I noticed that the site meta has changed over time.

It used to be that power roles were helpful to the town, and that claims helped solve the game. This is no longer true.

I just finished playing Sybil's Elegy which was a great example of the role distribution being designed to confuse at best, and F up at worse, the town. I have played others with similar anti-town mod shenanigans.

Here's the deal.

We should not claim, ever.

Treating the game as mountainous will increase our chances of winning.

What we should do (and I include vanilla townies) is to crumb our night choices somehow BEFORE the night. Vanilla townies must crumb fake targets.

When you're dead, and we know your role and alignment, we can go back and use the crumbs for the solve.

Solving games by way of RESULTS and CLAIMED ROLES will not work. It just doesn't work anymore.

VOTE: DGB

Wow went right for the throat

[Dragon of the West]

tbh i think this is kind of flawed logic because t3 confessing that he lurks as scum could just be a gateway to him not lurking and gaining towncred that way like you said. like i played a game with him before where he was scum and he didnt lurk there so like. take that as you will.

[Dragon of the West]

I'm panicking that you already figured out the scum team

VOTE: Roden

Nero associative?

Bad fake scum hunting?

I'll be using a system I have used in other games in this game. I believe Norweigh is familiar with it since I used it in a game we played together.

LOCKTOWN

TMI?

I'm gunna veto this, but still read it as Townie.

Scum?

BUDDIES?

tbh i think this is kind of flawed logic because t3 confessing that he lurks as scum could just be a gateway to him not lurking and gaining towncred that way like you said. like i played a game with him before where he was scum and he didnt lurk there so like. take that as you will.

People don't usually lie about their meta. At least in my experience. And once you've played a certain number of games, it's really hard to break your meta.

I mean, people's scum play can just be them doing their best to mimic their town play. In that scenario, meta means nothing beyond knowing how the person usually talks/reacts to things. But that's not something the person can teach you via self-meta

[Dragon of the West]

I'm panicking that you already figured out the scum team

VOTE: Roden

Nero associative?

Bad fake scum hunting?

Pressure on T3 isn't a bad idea, but he's more likely to sort himself for us. If he's scum he'll likely out himself the longer the game goes on, and he's likely to form incriminating associatives as well.

Can't say I'm good at actually reading him, but I've played enough games with him that I kinda know his meta. It's generally detrimental to scum to keep him around regardless of his alignment.

You're suggesting that "the longer the game goes on, and he's likely to form incriminating associatives" is a characteristic of T3 and not every player out there, so we should give T3 special treatment - only pressure, but

not eliminate

?

I'll figure out what this all means as soon as I finish scraping my brain matter from the walls.

I'll be using a system I have used in other games in this game. I believe Norweigh is familiar with it since I used it in a game we played together.

LOCKTOWN

TMI?

I'm gunna veto this, but still read it as Townie.

Scum?

BUDDIES?

These are the only 3 posts of relevance to the game they posted and they only voiced any kind of reasoning in 1 of them. The other 2 are just observations voiced in a way to spread suspicion.

I'll buy its their playstyle since they seem at least alert in the game. Still a scumlean at least in my book for now tohugh.

Accusatory DGB is just DGB

[Dragon of the West]

Dragon of the West, when you've read up on the game could you give your thoughts?
Would love to hear your thoughts about Cheeky/Lickity in particular.

Cheeky I'm null, I have LQ as a scumread

[Dragon of the West]

Some of LQs questions have really seemed like the answers wouldn't provide any value to town. And the one asking "can someone explain this wagon" pinged me. I think I recently I saw scum ask that same thing about a wagon on a scum partner

[Dragon of the West]

Well I feel ignored.

Just wanted to let the new player give fresh reads of relatively undiscussed slots that are active but whatever.

See if Nero actually has some good points against cheeky here before piling on them though.

DoTW give thoughts on some more slots please.

I catch up on posts in order and post as I read; just because I'm posting doesn't mean I've read the most recent posts. Tbh, I just completely ignore doing pedits

[Dragon of the West]

I mean, people's scum play can just be them doing their best to mimic their town play. In that scenario, meta means nothing beyond knowing how the person usually talks/reacts to things. But that's not something the person can teach you via self-meta

Lurking through pressure is a Scum tell.

Not particularly relevant but I've seen town T3 just ignore points against them if they think they lack substance, so them lurking through it wouldn't lock them as scum for me.

Spoiler:

Sample size of playing with T3=1 game

I've played with T3 twice (we were both town in each game) and if anything T3 actually responding to posts against him and getting defensive would seen scummy to me

[Dragon of the West]

my scumreads at the moment after one read through: T3& LQ
My strongest townreads are Roden, Mega, and DGB. I also townread Nero's early posts but I'm less sure there

[Dragon of the West]

Cheeky I'm null, I have LQ as a scumread

LOL. Try it buddy.

Not really looking to gladiator. It's just a D1 read

[Dragon of the West]

The serious questions were 32, 38, 50, 54.

If you have a question about the questions I've asked, fire away! Else, don't assume.

Yeah I didn't like 32 and you've already tried to explain it and I didn't like your reasoning.

[Dragon of the West]

Just realized I'm 16 pages behind...I'll work on a catch-up now

[Dragon of the West]

my scumreads at the moment after one read through: T3& LQ
My strongest townreads are Roden, Mega, and DGB. I also townread Nero's early posts but I'm less sure there

What makes u less sure/why don't you like my later posts?

Your posts after the early ones, up until this point, just seemed null/NAI. The read on you just wasn't as strong as the other 3 I listed. Also, in the one game we played together you dominated the thread with posts. One game isn't enough to make full judgement on but you have seemed a little different here

[Dragon of the West]

I'm liking Dragon of the West for town.

I'm townreading DGB for throwing random scumreads everywhere but I haven't seen their scum game so I'm questioning myself. This just feels like someone trying to pocket me when I haven't done anything because we were just in a game where I got pocketed hard by scum for multiple days

[Dragon of the West]

Why am I scum?

This and 531 seem strangely defensive for T3

[Dragon of the West]

I'm ~530, I think Nero v Roden is TvT

[Dragon of the West]

StD. I just had a scum game with StD and he's playing the exact same like he did there

Can you explain what specifically is "the exact same"? I just had a game with StD where he was town and he just was lazy town with gut reads

[Dragon of the West]

I feel like this below was going against their Scum meta they told me they go by, namely, posting when they have pressure on them:

This using someone else's self-meta to scumhunt thing still seems so terrible and I hate it

[Dragon of the West]

The serious questions were 32, 38, 50, 54.

If you have a question about the questions I've asked, fire away! Else, don't assume.

Yeah I didn't like 32 and you've already tried to explain it and I didn't like your reasoning.

Fair enough. That's not a horrible reason actually. What did you think of my explanations for the other posts?

38 is just you not realizing something is copypasta, 50 is an easy question for anyone to ask, and I hate to admit it but I actually agree with you wanting a wagon on T3 in 58, I'd just have to go back and see how you handled your read on him once other people expressed a scumread on the slot

[Dragon of the West]

Sometimes lurksacks are just lurksacks. If only I had an example of pushing scum until we finally settled on a do nothing lurksack

Lmao

[Dragon of the West]

StD. I just had a scum game with StD and he's playing the exact same like he did there

Can you explain what specifically is "the exact same"? I just had a game with StD where he was town and he just was lazy town with gut reads

Oh, maybe he just always plays that way then, because that's indistinguishable from how he played with me in our scum game. That's gonna make it a lot harder to read him then. Can you link it? I wanna compare his ISO's.

viewtopic.php?t=86774&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

Does this work? Should be StD's ISO from Large 233. Sorry, don't know/don't feel like figuring out how to link it cleaner from mobile

[Dragon of the West]

The serious questions were 32, 38, 50, 54.

If you have a question about the questions I've asked, fire away! Else, don't assume.

Yeah I didn't like 32 and you've already tried to explain it and I didn't like your reasoning.

Fair enough. That's not a horrible reason actually. What did you think of my explanations for the other posts?

38 is just you not realizing something is copypasta, 50 is an easy question for anyone to ask, and I hate to admit it but I actually agree with you wanting a wagon on T3 in 58, I'd just have to go back and see how you handled your read on him once other people expressed a scumread on the slot

58 is the wrong post. This site has an ISO feature that is good. Use it. 58 is the wrong post. I've wanted pressure on T3 all game if it's any consolation to you in reading me.

Relax I meant to say 54. I don't need to ISO when it's literally in the post I quoted, just had a brain fart and typed the wrong number

[Dragon of the West]

I've wanted pressure on T3 all game if it's any consolation to you in reading me

Yes as a matter of fact catching up to the most recent pages and seeing you vote T3 does make me feel better. Tbh you're probably town, I feel like my early game reads on people I haven't played with before are pretty much trash

[Dragon of the West]

StD. I just had a scum game with StD and he's playing the exact same like he did there

Can you explain what specifically is "the exact same"? I just had a game with StD where he was town and he just was lazy town with gut reads

Oh, maybe he just always plays that way then, because that's indistinguishable from how he played with me in our scum game. That's gonna make it a lot harder to read him then. Can you link it? I wanna compare his ISO's.

viewtopic.php?t=86774&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

Does this work? Should be StD's ISO from Large 233. Sorry, don't know/don't feel like figuring out how to link it cleaner from mobile

StD has a LOT more pep in that game. They seem very subdued here.

Here's their self meta from 233 that I'm sure you'll 100% trust now:

at this game

So what about the past when you have tried as town?

i'm not saying i don't try as town, i mostly try in games

i've just been behind a lot in this one and it's hard for me to follow.

i'm saying if i were scum i'd feel guilty about leaving my partners in the lurch by my lurking and i would try to pop in more to put more effort.

after petapan and dwlee and dgb and nero and others talked so much about claiming or not claiming my eyes glazed over and i decided not to try as hard this game because it was hard to read from the beginning

but i have some time right now so i'll try to put in something and read some isos if i can

Also, look at their posting and the date/timestamps of their posts after the middle-ish of D2. D1 was 100 pages, after the first couple days were dragging their posts were sporadic

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: T3

[Dragon of the West]

I had to do a triple take on that. Between that and LQ & Cheeky's avatars looking similar on mobile I'm gonna very confused who I'm reading lol

[Dragon of the West]

I have an extremely accurate meta scum read on t3 right now, y'all should sheep me.

M E T A

For real though what's your actual case on T3? Since it's definitely not solely based in meta

[Dragon of the West]

Could we kill t3 B4 page 80 ty

[Dragon of the West]

So I just had the misfortune of reading through all of today's posts and honestly it's like 90% wasted space. Any associatives from the this day phase are gonna be nearly impossible to parse by end game if we just talk in circles for 100 pages.
Summary of today:
>Nero troll
>Gamma mad
>LQ popping in
>StD lazy NAI
>T3 still scum
>Dwlee meta bad
>Shrek more town
>Mega disappeared after asking nothing questions for days

[Dragon of the West]

I'm not a troll u take that back you bald meany head

I take it back

[Dragon of the West]

I have an extremely accurate meta scum read on t3 right now, y'all should sheep me.

M E T A

For real though what's your actual case on T3? Since it's definitely not solely based in meta

actually dotw what are your top scum reads and town reads? you havent actually popped in as much as i thought you had so id like to get your takes here

You, cheeky, and Nero for town.
T3 for scum and then just a bunch of weak scumleans that are really impossible for me sort through meaningfully without any type of associatives or flips.

Got worried about DGB pocketing me and they're handing out a suspicious amount of townreads for them, LQ seems to just ask empty questions but I haven't played with them before and cheeky seems to think they're town, mega asks even more empty questions than LQ but I'm wondering if that can just be chalked up to them being newer and just not great at scumhunting but trying to engage, then there are a handful of people (I guess myself included) that don't have a ton of content relative to the sheer volume of posts in the game which makes reading them at this stage kinda moot

[Dragon of the West]

i feel like this answer is a little wishy washy? what do you think of gamma/roden, or the people like arc who havent contributed as much?

Forgot to list Roden in the town bucket. Oh, and I have norwe as a town lean.

I'm lost on Gamma. I couldn't really get a feel for whether Nero v Gamma was TvT or TvS but I think it's safe to assume they both aren't scum together lol. I just...didn't think either had that compelling of an argument? Can't tell if Gamma doing a 180 on Nero is just scum abandoning a tunnel or someone legitimately just changing their mind on re-read

[Dragon of the West]

if you had to pick four scum, who would it be?

Without considering associatives at all my guesses would be T3, Mega, DGB, low content person

[Dragon of the West]

I'll vote any of the T3, Mega, Gamma wagons if it means we get a flip and don't let this day run another 50 pages.

The reality is people keep saying "we have to wait to get more content from the lurkers" or "I want a NEW reads list from X" but 1) lurkers are going to provide minimal extra content, that much should be clear by now 2) for every new post a lurker

might

make, each active players will make an additional 30 posts so it'll still feel like you have no info from the lurkers, especially relative to the # of posts in the game 3) it'll be even harder to sort through because the thread is just full of worthless posts.

It's D1, we have such little info to go off of. Just list 2 or 3 people you're willing to lim and see if combining everyone's lists can put anyone over a majority

[Dragon of the West]

T3 more from meta

I don't have a very consistent meta in terms of activity but I think I engage with the thread a lot more as scum.

Here LQ, add this to T3s self meta file. Engaged with thread a lot more as scum, but also lurks as scum

[Dragon of the West]

I'm just going to put it out there in case A50 tries to stomp the game after he kills me, that A50 paid an awful lot of attention to be Mason hunting for my partner yet had very little to contribute.

I didn't like his announcement about the crumb. There's no reason as town to announce "I FOUND SOMEONE OBVIOUSLY CRUMBING" if it doesn't come into play at that moment

[Dragon of the West]

Guess who is widely town read, but is in fact Scummy McScummerson?

LQ or Shrek based on the type of slot you're saying you targeted.

Also, I like the pirate addition to the profile pic

[Dragon of the West]

Alright I read through D2 posts so far. I think the StD TMI reasoning is too weak to be a reason for a lim. I still think mega is just asking other people to read the game for them both to seem busy and so they have to provide minimal amount of their own thoughts. I'm gonna go through T3 and Norwee's ISOs and see what that turns up.

DGB - any day now on that guilty

[Dragon of the West]

I expect based on DGBs slip around the guilty that they're likely a town neighbourizer. Scum would've known the result of a guilty was wrong obviously.

No, it's WIFOM and I'm not sure it comes from Town. Too many derps with this whole thing for me to think it's legit.

In Large 233 l, which DGB was in, someone messed up a result claim and ended up flipping town. Town Dwlee's response to that flub was that they felt the progression of messing up the result claim felt town. Wonder if DGB is pulling from that game or really just goofed it. A piece of me thinks it must be a genuine mistake

[Dragon of the West]

I mean, I'm confirmed as Town either way, so it doesn't really matter much.

I mean, that's just not true. But I buy the story for now

[Dragon of the West]

Dotw, are you of the same opinion of me that dgbs play is different than 233, or naw?

Yes, but it's hard for me to make that judgement objectively this game considering in 233 I knew DGB was town from the start so I never had to read them with that little feeling of paranoia in the back of my mind. Also, it was just one game so I'm trying not to put too much stock in it

[Dragon of the West]

Guy said 50/59 stop misrepping

I'm not gonna lie I laughed out loud at this

[Dragon of the West]

How is it 50/50?

How many times can you role town in a row if it's all random . It's like a dice you throw it 6 times what's the cance of rolling 1?

This is not how probability works

[Dragon of the West]

I don't think anyone took your "accurate meta tell" as a joke at the time, and I don't think it should be considered a joke

It was REALLY obvious it was a joke

[Dragon of the West]

I have an extremely accurate meta scum read on t3 right now, y'all should sheep me.

M E T A

For real though what's your actual case on T3? Since it's definitely not solely based in meta

Well he has done nothing but bad meta read people and hop onto twenty wagons. I'm typically a bit wagon hoppy but the way t3 is doing it makes me think he is trying to muddy any associatives that occur when he flips, and his vote hopping is flailing-adjacent.

Roden, read the posts in Dwlee's ISO around and after the meta joke...it's obvious

[Dragon of the West]

I really struggle trying to read bad/dumb town play /=/ scummy.

Where is Mega? VOTE: MegA

[Dragon of the West]

A 1-shot in a large seems weak right?

They claimed (to me) that they were 2-shot. And I said this already but I am a Backup Neighborizer with no stipulations on loyal OR x-shot.

This was dumb to out now, if they claimed 2-shot to you in PT, you would've been able to confirm tomorrow if someone else was added to PT or DGB would claim a guilty. Also you having no modifiers indicates nothing about DGBs modifiers. If DGB is town, I can easily see them claiming 1-shot so they don't get NK'd but get another investigate chance....which you've now just jeopardized

[Dragon of the West]

Ok well that makes me locktown DGB, because clearly they were saying 1x so they wouldn't be NK. So... shit.

Yuuuup. So is LQ scum or dumb

[Dragon of the West]

Ok well that makes me locktown DGB, because clearly they were saying 1x so they wouldn't be NK. So... shit.

yeah that's what I was thinking which is why I'm kinda pissed at LQ for fucking it up!

It doesn't mess up anything. Either DGB or I will be NKed. If I get NKed then DGB can still used their shot. Else, If DGB get's shot, they can still use their shot and I can see the results. We get another shot regardless if DGB is telling the truth.

You already said you aren't loyal, so your role (if both claims are real) is way weaker. You just neighborize someone, you won't get confirmation of them being town or scum

[Dragon of the West]

DGB might be an idea to tell us who you're targeting so if you get NK'd LQ can confirm if it worked.

I'm torn over this. If DGB's claim is true, part of me thinks this should happen in the PT. Only LQ would need to know who DGB targeted to confirm if they got into the PT or not and scum would be left in the dark.

If DGB and/or LQ are scum though....whole can of worms

[Dragon of the West]

DGB, I know it sucks you'll probably get NK'd if you're town but your action for tonight can still go through if you have a shot left and LQ would be able to see if that person joins the PT

[Dragon of the West]

DGB might be an idea to tell us who you're targeting so if you get NK'd LQ can confirm if it worked.

If I'm NK'd the action will not go through, so it's pointless. I'm either going to be NK'd or RB'd, thanks LQ.

DGB, I know it sucks you'll probably get NK'd if you're town but your action for tonight can still go through if you have a shot left and LQ would be able to see if that person joins the PT

Wait why not. I thought night actions still happened even if the person is NK'd

[Dragon of the West]

yeah killing is low on the NAR and it shouldn't stop a neighborize if it's adding to the same hood (which by the fact the hood was around from the start is the logical assumption)

Fingers crossed, I'm no NAR expert.

Can you ask the mod? I feel like that should be an allowed question. I'm pretty sure the neighborize should still work even if your NK'd

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: unvote
Just so we can sort this out. I'm still on Mega in spirit

[Dragon of the West]

Why would you be 2-shot AND even-night? Does this game even last to day 6?

Pretty sure that claim is bullshit but if we want to force them to watch DGB we can.

I mean just based on numbers it could last through D6 right? And watcher has the potential to be really strong during the end game

[Dragon of the West]

We make it hard for scum by forcing them to "watch" DGB.

VOTE: Cyrus

Who is them?

[Dragon of the West]

Cyrus can you try harder? DGB claim resolves itself. MegA claim resol es itself. Why are you voting DGB?

Tbh I don't see how DGB claim resolves itself beyond trusting they are town. But I wouldn't call that "resolves itself"

[Dragon of the West]

Cyrus can you try harder? DGB claim resolves itself. MegA claim resol es itself. Why are you voting DGB?

Tbh I don't see how DGB claim resolves itself beyond trusting they are town. But I wouldn't call that "resolves itself"

So you're voting DGB because?

I'm...not? I was on Mega's wagon and unvoted at E-1 to avoid a quick hammer...I'm not voting anyone at the moment and I think DGB is probably town

[Dragon of the West]

If DGB lives but is role blocked MegA will see who did it. If DGB dies MegA will see it. If MegA dies DGB adds another conf town to hood or is RB'd or tries to add scum.

What if Mega AND DGB are still alive tomorrow?

[Dragon of the West]

DGB is out of shots if their 2-shot claim is real, Mega wouldn't have seen anything, and scum probably just NK LQ

[Dragon of the West]

Town!DGB would've gotten 'No result' PM if alien, but they said they got nothing

[Dragon of the West]

Also, Shrek's opening to the day didn't seem like they had a 'no result' PM on DGB

[Dragon of the West]

I could see a scenario where DGB is town, a NK doesn't stop DGBs actions and think that letting DGB use their shot probably hits town and results in another conftown which isn't a big deal, if there's a scum rolestop, they target DGB so no investigates can target them and murks their slot, and try to use NK on LQ which STD bodyguards. STD must have bodyguarded either LQ or DGB...if STD bodyguarded town!DGB someone is lying that they couldn't target DGB because I'm not counting on scum having multiple role blockers and a rolestop would have prevented STDs bodyguard

[Dragon of the West]

DGB's role doesn't give feedback.

Fooook

[Dragon of the West]

Oh both could be town if scum alien hmm

Town!DGB would've gotten 'No result' PM if alien, but they said they got nothing

DGB's role doesn't give feedback.

So a possible alien throws a wrench into it, but in that scenario STD still didn't bodyguard DGB. I'm more inclined to think that Shrek is lying than there's an alien based on how they opened the day

[Dragon of the West]

fuck it ill claim but just to stop the gladiating

cheeky dgb isnt ascetic. im a tracker and dgb didnt perform an action last night which means it was either rbed or is lying about what it is

I doubt I was roleblocked since I was probably the NK.

I don't believe a town tracker would track me since LQ is there to confirm my action.

I actually think it's more likely you weren't the NK at this rate. But Shrek's claim also didn't line up right? They said they got "No Result", not "No action"...or do I have that wrong

[Dragon of the West]

i mean i didnt get a result back so idk what he is. you tell me.

Shrek did you get no result or no action?

i got no result back. are they not the same thing?

oh my b. i got the first one

[Dragon of the West]

I also want Mega's results

[Dragon of the West]

Well DGB was rolestopped or alien'd or is ascetic. If rolestopped, Shrek is scum, if alien'd, Shrek could be town, if ascetic, DGB is evil. I want to know why Shrek targeted DGB here.

Or roleblocker blocked Shrek or Cheeky AND the other is lying but I think a scum!roleblocker would target DGB and I don't see a world where they would target Shrek

[Dragon of the West]

But then if any of these claimed actions (including yours) aren't lies, you'd have results

[Dragon of the West]

It doesn't even make sense for scum to have killed DGB. It wouldn't stop them from neighborizing, town would get confirmation of their role so they'd have LQ as conftown and supposedly one more conftown that only LQ would know to start the day

[Dragon of the West]

How do you know you were blocked instead of DGB being stopped?

[Dragon of the West]

Honestly through the night phase I was getting shaky boots about cheeky and this really isn't helping

[Dragon of the West]

Is there a world where scum!DGB is just neighborizer and a scum buddy rolestops them N2 so no investigative actions work on them? I guess scum!DGB claiming a guilty on someone would be unlikely...but idk it feels like the result would be messy enough to be plausible. Idk, I still think the most likely outcome is Shrek is lying here

[Dragon of the West]

It would be good if you reread today DotW because these things have already been discussed. I have no idea why scum roleblocked me instead of DGB hence why I assumed DGB was ascetic.

Show me where we've determined it couldn't possibly be a rolestopper on DGB

[Dragon of the West]

Cheeky Teeky is gambiting scum.

We targeted Shrek, and Shrek didn't join the neighborhood which means Shrek is scum.

Oop. Ok Dwlee's just trolling then.

You shouldn't.

Unless you have a peek I think I believe the claim. Do you have a peek?

No because DGB is Ascetic and the only reason to lie about that is because it's scum.

Is DGB actually Ascetic?

Did you target them?

I lied about my shot, so no.

You said you were roleblocked?

No, I said I lied about having a shot to try to draw the potential roleblock.

[Dragon of the West]

I'm asking you why you know it was a block and not a stop. I don't know what role or modifier would be able to differentiate that if you targeted DGB

[Dragon of the West]

Also, I've said at every step I think Shrek being scum is the most likely scenario. How is trying to understand the possibilities a bad thing?

[Dragon of the West]

Ok, if true and a RB exists they targeted me then, but I'm not actually Vig

Here Roden, you said you were RB'd. I don't care about your role I just want to know if you targeted DGB.

I said if Dwlee joined the hood then I successfully drew away the RB. I didn't say I was actually RB'd though, I was just trying to gambit to let DGB do it successfully. Dwlee admitted they were just trolling though so I have no idea if DGB was actually targeted or I was.

@DGB: Did you get a no result PM?

Roden didn't claim being roleblocked @dwlee

[Dragon of the West]

Cheeky do you know what a rolestopper does

Maybe you need to reread today homie
Explain it to me.

It makes the person targeted ascetic and bulletproof for the night.

Then why did STD die?

[Dragon of the West]

I could see a scenario where DGB is town, a NK doesn't stop DGBs actions and think that letting DGB use their shot probably hits town and results in another conftown which isn't a big deal, if there's a scum rolestop, they target DGB so no investigates can target them and murks their slot, and try to use NK on LQ which STD bodyguards. STD must have bodyguarded either LQ or DGB...if STD bodyguarded town!DGB someone is lying that they couldn't target DGB because I'm not counting on scum having multiple role blockers and a rolestop would have prevented STDs bodyguard

Maybe you need to reread today homie

[Dragon of the West]

Shrek is acting like caught scum so it's pretty clear the guilty is legit.

This we agree on. The guilty would be legit if DGB was rolestopped, they still can use their action. I was just saying there are multiple possibilities of why actions didn't work and I don't know why you'd get roleblocked over DGB. Makes no sense

[Dragon of the West]

Unless your explanation of getting rolecopped by scum N1 and then roleblocked N2 is somehow now the "simplest explanation"

[Dragon of the West]

There's no way the NK ever goes outside of {MegA/DGB} after the D2 claims from them IF both are town. Scum aren't going to go, oh well let's kill confirmed town instead of the people who can clear them. It's the same for the RB/RS whatever, no way that happens outside those two if both are town. Since both actions could have happened outside those two then very likely one is scum and it ain't DGB.

If they rolestop DGB, town!Mega's action would get no result. No need to kill an even night watcher on N2 if you know who they're targeting and that they won't get any result. You can kill them N4 while making them mislimmable D3 and D4 without worrying about them using their PR. In the meantime you kill conftown N2 to increase chance of mislims during day phase

[Dragon of the West]

There's no way the NK ever goes outside of {MegA/DGB} after the D2 claims from them IF both are town. Scum aren't going to go, oh well let's kill confirmed town instead of the people who can clear them. It's the same for the RB/RS whatever, no way that happens outside those two if both are town. Since both actions could have happened outside those two then very likely one is scum and it ain't DGB.

If they rolestop DGB, town!Mega's action would get no result. No need to kill an even night watcher on N2 if you know who they're targeting and that they won't get any result. You can kill them N4 while making them mislimmable D3 and D4 without worrying about them using their PR. In the meantime you kill conftown N2 to increase chance of mislims during day phase

And to be clear, I'm not implying mega is town. If they're scum it would still make sense for scum to rolestop DGB because then scum!mega might have an explanation for why they couldn't produce a result on who DGB targeted. Also, DGB and LQ shouldn't have outted their target so soon

[Dragon of the West]

Directly killed or targeted LQ probably

Who the fuck directly kills StD though

Tbh the only scum team that directly kills STD has gamma on it. That was a recurring scumread for him. But even then I think STD was too mislimmable to use a NK on

[Dragon of the West]

@Shrek - who did you target N1 and what was the result?

[Dragon of the West]

@Roden - DGBs role doesn't get 'results'. People are either added to the PT or they aren't. There's no confirmation involved

[Dragon of the West]

So DGB has a "guilty" in the sense that the person they targeted wasn't added to the PT. But they wouldn't know the difference between that and being blocked

[Dragon of the West]

Cause if cheeky and Shrek both didn't get a result then rolestopper but you got a result. So DGB not ascetic or rolestopped?

Oooof this is so messy. If scum!mega, this result means nothing and someone could've rolestopped DGB or roleblocked cheeky (I still see roleblocking cheeky as unlikely). They could be scum partners with mega. If town!mega then Shrek and Cheeky are scum together. Else, scum!DGB?

[Dragon of the West]

They could be scum partners with mega

They being Shrek or Cheeky

[Dragon of the West]

I think this boils down to flipping Shrek since I think it's more likely that Shrek and Mega are partnered than the other scenarios and I'm pretty sure we had mega cornered yesterday

[Dragon of the West]

Tbh I want Shrek to be town, but I still think both MegA/Shrek are scum.

I don't. DGB has been Scummy since they brought up their claim. Now they are SURE that Shrek is Scum? Given all the other talk about Rolestopper and RB? It does not sound like DGB is interested in actually sorting Shrek but just wants to Elim them.

LQ, town!DGB is just really accusatory in general and pegs people as scum even without hard guilties. I'd say at best it's NAI but I haven't seen their scum play so maybe I'm wrong

[Dragon of the West]

Tbh I want Shrek to be town, but I still think both MegA/Shrek are scum.

I don't. DGB has been Scummy since they brought up their claim. Now they are SURE that Shrek is Scum? Given all the other talk about Rolestopper and RB? It does not sound like DGB is interested in actually sorting Shrek but just wants to Elim them.

LQ, town!DGB is just really accusatory in general and pegs people as scum even without hard guilties. I'd say at best it's NAI but I haven't seen their scum play so maybe I'm wrong

lol guy. DGB like exclusively defended scum and pushed town at least in the early game.

That's different than 233 how?

[Dragon of the West]

oh i get it. When you said "pegs" you just meant calls. It doesn't have anything to do with accuracy.

Yeah my bad. Poor wording

[Dragon of the West]

Action failed is different in what way from no result?

Action failed is RB. No Result is anything else.

Idk what Cheeky's specific role is but if you roleblock certain investigative roles they get a "no result" pm per the wiki. So action failed = no result of roleblocked unless action failed isn't getting roleblocked? Idk what the scenario would be for action failed?

[Dragon of the West]

I should really read for pedits

[Dragon of the West]

So we definitely lim in mega/cheeky.

So what happened to my Shrek target then?

Cheeky could have roleblocked you?

Isn't Shrek getting no results the same as cheeky when comparing to Mega's results?

[Dragon of the West]

No RB had to target me directly, I wouldn't get fail if DGB was roleblocked.

And now we're back to saying DGB being rolestopped couldn't affect your result?

[Dragon of the West]

My target N2 was DGB so from my PoV it makes sense if Shrek visited DGB to NK them and STD protected DGB and MegA is scum with a fake claim.

Who was your n1 target?

Gamma.

I was trying to scare DoTW by not claiming who but yeah.

Lol I don't know why town!you would scum read me right now but okay. I still don't see a specific role claim from you so I don't know if you're saying your role confirms gamma is town but if it does and you're town that'll make me feel a lot better about gamma's slot. I thought they were potentially pocketing me and encouraging me to SR you by backing up my posts being sus of you

[Dragon of the West]

There's a world where Shrek is town and that doesn't tell us anything about anyone else because of possible roleblock or rolestop but there's not a scenario where mega flip doesn't give us info. So I'm on mega here. If Mega flips red I'm pretty sure Shrek is scum too depending on Mega's role
VOTE: Mega

[Dragon of the West]

In the case DGB is Scum who did not use a NA, then Cheeky's no result, Shreks no result, and Mega seeing both Cheeky and Shrek visited DGB makes perfect sense.

Without knowing Cheeky's role, we don't know if one of Cheeky or Shrek is Scum in the case of Town!DGB since either of them could have rolestopped DGB.

Cheeky's role doesn't sound like it depends on whether or not DGB performed a night action. If it does, then a roleblock on DGB would give Cheeky a no result pm which is explicitly what cheeky is saying is NOT possible. I think Cheeky's role gets a result regardless of DGB performing a night action, otherwise why would cheeky say DGB is scum/disloyal/ascetic on a failed or no action?

[Dragon of the West]

Investigate is at the bottom of the list.

That list is only if things contradict...which the watcher/tracker/investigate don't.

[Dragon of the West]

like no one believed the mason claim and cheekys reaction to no one believing it is hilarious.

^^^

[Dragon of the West]

Just to be clear, if you do flip red MegA it doesn't clear Shrek in any way.

This is facts

[Dragon of the West]

I'm pretty sure mega and Shrek are both scum here but mega is who you flip first because it tells you about the other 2

[Dragon of the West]

Any investigation role or a checker gets that result. Why am I in this thread again

I mean it's still possible Cheeky was RBed, and then that means what to DGB doing no NA?

Shrek is claiming that their action failed (no result) not that DGB visited no one.

Which is exactly what is normal for... normal setups.

Dude what planet are you on

[Dragon of the West]

Yo cheeky in case you're NK'd I'm assuming that you targeting Gamma N1 means that whatever your role is gave you either an inno or nothing incriminating?

[Dragon of the West]

If I die please exile DoTW in my honour.

You still never made an actual case against me?

[Dragon of the West]

If I die please exile DoTW in my honour.

You still never made an actual case against me?

Do I need one? Basic VCA outs you. Plus your play today is super cute wolfy style.

I don't think I was even on Cyrus yesterday? So idk what your VCA tells you. I think you're just misreading the situation but you do you. I think you're just ruffled because I suggested you might be scum

[Dragon of the West]

V/LA until Sunday

I'll try to catch up tomorrow. I skimmed through what's been posted so far but intend to go back tomorrow with a fresh mind.

I think we still lim Shrek today. Also with a bodyguard already flipped, what are the odds of another town protective role? I'm confused at the no NK

[Dragon of the West]

No one has died during the night...

Alright, starting from the beginning of the day. Is there anything we can gather from the no kill? I'm assuming there should be 3 scum remaining....no idea why they would choose to no kill...which makes me wonder if there's another town protective role? Does anyone have an explanation for if scum would choose to no kill?

[Dragon of the West]

my claim as tracker was faked to see what mega would say and if he would fall for the bait, but i had to improvise when people asked me for my n1 results. it DID work, though. mega only claimed his results after i claimed tracker meaning that he outed himself as a mafia member immediately. i wanted to see whether or not he would double down on it but i was pulled away from the computer and the day phase ended while i was gone

See...that's not why you claimed tracker though. You claimed tracker because you said your role explained why DGB couldn't add you to the PT

[Dragon of the West]

Look, the only way DGB and Cheeky are both Town at this point is if Scum have an Alien IIRC. So I suggest we just realize that and vote Gamma off today.

I know LQ got replaced but I wanted to say that DGB and Cheeky can both be town very easily if Shrek is scum here and that means it only took a rolestop on DGB or roleblock on Cheeky for the results to play out how they did

[Dragon of the West]

Wouldn't scum!mega have known that dgb was rolestopped if that were the case? Or that cheeky was roleblocked? I just think the whole thing is weird, but I think that one of Shrek and it are scum probably? Cause alien is a sort of far-fetched theory.

mega checked in literally once yesterday i dont think he was up to date on his

teammates claims

. that and he scumslipped anyway

How do you know his teammates claimed anything

[Dragon of the West]

A50 I need you to parse all the claims from yesterday and what it means if Shrek "gambited" the tracker claim. I need someone rational. Like yesterday Shrek claimed he tracked StD to me N1, which gave improved probability of StD being a direct target, allowing still for possibility of DGB being role stopped or alien'd. If Shrek claim was fake then it makes no sense for scum to NK StD directly when DGB had claimed investigative and I was a claimed PR. Therefore for StD to die they must have protected DGB which means Rolestop and Alien is impossible because StD protect would have failed and a no kill would have happened N2.

Right?

Claiming he followed the dead bodyguard to the person most townread D1 was the easiest thing to fake claim as his N1 results.

Also, I still think it's likely DGB wasn't the NK target so drawing conclusions starting with the assumption that STD must've been protecting DGB is not good

[Dragon of the West]

if mafia aliened dgb why would they also try to kill them?? your logic makes zero sense

No because DGB would have wasted their 2nd shot being aliened and effectively became a VT in subsequent day phases. Killing them just creates conftown

[Dragon of the West]

Upstanding red role PM citizen MegA wanted to draw our attention to this:

-_(*-*)_-

I did though. Which makes me think its something funky.

Important note is DGB was NOT the intended NK since STD didn't visit.

I feel like this is a lot of WIFOM. But part of me wonders if mega just tells the truth here about STD not protecting DGB out of fear of their claim being even more contradicted somehow

[Dragon of the West]

put me up if you want but im legitimately town. personally my choices for a lim today would be mega/kitty/a50. i KNOW what you are thinking that i am mega sus for not joining your hood but i have a PR that explains it. not sure if i should claim now or later when im endangered but i completely understand where dgb/lq are coming from so do NOT get on them either just yet

I don't understand the guilty on Shrek though because if they flip green then we just kill DGB? Unless Shrek is scum buss to let DGB end game?

assuming theyre not lying about their role in the first place, i know that theyre telling the truth about me not joining the hood. HOWEVER that is NAI due to my PR

fuck it ill claim but just to stop the gladiating

cheeky dgb isnt ascetic. im a tracker and dgb didnt perform an action last night which means it was either rbed or is lying about what it is

dgb didnt perform an action last night

is lying about what it is

This makes zero sense...

it means that if it didnt perform an action and is lying about their role then they cant actually be neighborizer and you two are scum partners

@Mod if a player is RBed, will it show up as them having 'no action' on the tracker report?

i mean i didnt get a result back so idk what he is. you tell me.

Shrek did you get no result or no action?

i got no result back. are they not the same thing?

oh my b. i got the first one

(in pms)

@Mod if a player is RBed, will it show up as them having 'no action' on the tracker report?

Roleblocked actions don't show up for action investigatives

dgb may have actually targeted me but it didnt show up then

n1 im sure i wasnt blocked because std visited cheeky

cheeky how can you be roleblocked if mega said you visited dgb at the same time?? one of you or mega is lying out of your asses i think

and no std visited you n1 not n2. iirc his role says if he blocks a nk he dies instead

yeah true. but how would you still be able to visit dgb if you were rbed???? i dont get your logic

hence me wanting to vote for mega or you cause one of you is 100% lying. i want mega because his claim was bs, he's been inactive, and only claimed me and you visited dgb after we both outright admitted we did

why would a mason be rbed

Because Cheeky is Cop or other investigative role.

how would scum know that though

What do you mean?

std was the only person who visited cheeky n1 and we know hes not scum. why would scum choose to rb cheeky randomly when dgb not being able to add someone to its hood is an infinitely better option

Does this read like he caught MegA red handed with a gambit. Please. Stop. Being. Dumbells.

This is a good post

[Dragon of the West]

Town reading gamma and scumreading me to start with

What do you think of cheeky having a N1 result on gamma? Do you think it's a lie or...? Because if you think cheeky is town and their claims are true then you should understand the gamma TR. Assuming they got some type of innocent on gamma

[Dragon of the West]

What role could they have claimed to have that effect?

No idea, which is why the subsequent play makes no sense from town. Shrek said their role explained it, then it didn't and just threw shade on you by saying you didn't go anywhere N2, then said "but DGB is probably still town, most likely there's an alien and all 3 of us are town" (which is ???? not what's most probable and if scum!Shrek probably TMI on DGB), then doesn't out the "gambit" after mega would've been caught by their gambit, and then comes out D4 trying to explain that it was all a gambit to catch mega even though they never sprung the trap and tried to continue to put shade on Cheeky/DGB on D3 until the end of day. If Shrek is town and DGB got roleblocked so Shrek didn't get added to PT, town!Shrek doesn't go "oh my role explains it but not actually, let me make up a fake claim gambit to catch the mostly already caught scum". Town!anyone would go "DGB is either lying or their action got blocked because I'm town" and at most real claims once they get run up

[Dragon of the West]

Alright, that's my input for now. Probably won't be back until tomorrow morning.

VOTE: Shrek

[Dragon of the West]

Cheeky - any results?

[Dragon of the West]

Yeah if there hasn't been a CC to DGB being a neighborizer I think it's safe to assume scum!traffic analyst = conftown!DGB

[Dragon of the West]

I am ungated.

There is another confirmed townie from N3.

My target last night was not neighborized.

So we have another guilty?

Waiting to see if Cheeky got a result in case of roleblock on DGB or rolestop somewhere

[Dragon of the West]

I am ungated.

There is another confirmed townie from N3.

My target last night was not neighborized.

So for my understanding:
N1 targeted LQ - added to PT
N2 targeted Shrek - not added to PT
N3 targeted ? - added to PT
N4 targeted ? - not added to PT

You don't have to claim your N3 target yet if you don't want to but now that you've claimed ungated I think you'll be NK target, assuming we don't have a protective left

[Dragon of the West]

null:
Dwlee
DGB

scum:
Kitty/AA9/A50??
Roden
Gamma

There's gotta be scum in here right? I remember this pinging me at the time

[Dragon of the West]

Yep my action didn't fail. I targeted Cat Scratch Fever and noone targeted them. Killer is a ninja.

DoTW how do you know I had a result rather than a fail?

I didn't, just said I wanted to see if you had results. If you did, it makes the possibility of DGB being roleblocked or DGBs target being rolestopped more likely. I'm pretty sure DGB wouldn't get roleblocked N4 after not being roleblocked N3, though. So an unlikely rolestop would be the only way for DGB to get a false guilty

[Dragon of the West]

Not convinced there is a bp traitor but it is a better explanation than scum no killing intentionally for wifom atm. There is also the possibility of a JK which Is probably the best explanation for the no kill plus my role being blocked. I'm looking forward to A50s post.

Are you implying there was no kill because scum JK'd you...and then targeted you?

[Dragon of the West]

Not convinced there is a bp traitor but it is a better explanation than scum no killing intentionally for wifom atm. There is also the possibility of a JK which Is probably the best explanation for the no kill plus my role being blocked. I'm looking forward to A50s post.

Are you implying there was no kill because scum JK'd you...and then targeted you?

Or are you saying there's someone bulletproof AND scum jailkeeper

[Dragon of the West]

Sorta feel like the Poe is roden cheeky dotw

Wondering how you narrowed the POE to this list. I feel like POE has to at least include A50, Kitty, and AA9 unless I'm missing something obvious

[Dragon of the West]

Not convinced there is a bp traitor but it is a better explanation than scum no killing intentionally for wifom atm. There is also the possibility of a JK which Is probably the best explanation for the no kill plus my role being blocked. I'm looking forward to A50s post.

Are you implying there was no kill because scum JK'd you...and then targeted you?

No town JK. Which is sensible because they don't want to block DGB from their action but wanted to cover a TPR N2.

Hmmm...if there's a town JK I guess I could see it if they believed the mason claim?...but honestly the N3 JK on you wouldn't make sense for town!JK

[Dragon of the West]

If this is your guilty and it's not a fake guilty because of a RB or RS, I am incredibly happy lmao
VOTE: CheekyTeeky

[Dragon of the West]

Yep my action didn't fail. I targeted Cat Scratch Fever and noone targeted them. Killer is a ninja.

DoTW how do you know I had a result rather than a fail?

I didn't, just said I wanted to see if you had results. If you did, it makes the possibility of DGB being roleblocked or DGBs target being rolestopped more likely. I'm pretty sure DGB wouldn't get roleblocked N4 after not being roleblocked N3, though. So an unlikely rolestop would be the only way for DGB to get a false guilty

I think you're confusing something with another. Rolestopper does NOT affect it's target's actions. It prevents all other actions ON them.

No, I was saying if the rolestopper was on the person DGB targeted, OR the roleblocker targeted DGB

[Dragon of the West]

If this is your guilty and it's not a fake guilty because of a RB or RS, I am incredibly happy lmao
VOTE: CheekyTeeky

I think this is the happiest I've seen you the entire game lol.

Not gonna lie, I've been getting increasingly frustrated with your ideas on the gamestate and seemingly incorrect mech talk that I'll just feel so much better about if you aren't town. Best explanation there could be because otherwise you've appeared really well-spoken(written?) and seeing you seemingly will yourself to ignorance was maddening. Also, it would be really validating for when I said something about you being scum ~D2 and you reacting poorly

[Dragon of the West]

Stop stop stop

It was a gambit

Fuck, okay I'll have to read everything after work

VOTE: Unvote

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: Almost50

[Dragon of the West]

Not convinced there is a bp traitor but it is a better explanation than scum no killing intentionally for wifom atm. There is also the possibility of a JK which Is probably the best explanation for the no kill plus my role being blocked. I'm looking forward to A50s post.

Are you implying there was no kill because scum JK'd you...and then targeted you?

No town JK. Which is sensible because they don't want to block DGB from their action but wanted to cover a TPR N2.

On the first 2 nights I tried to steer away from TPRs, actually. On N1 I targeted MegA (and can tell you they didn't perform the kill). I actually wanted to target Testa but she got replaced by cyrus, so I went for the second best option.

On N2 I thought Nero was both Town AND NOT a PR, so I targeted him.

On N3 I targeted you because I thought you didn't have an action on that night, and I did buy your claim.

Last I bloody targeted DGB. It said it was out of shots. I HATE YOU TWO.

I am a strongman finder. N1 I got no result on a50, n2 was gamma he wasn't a strongman Wich means a50 might be lying about targeting me. N3 was Shrek and n4 was roden who is a strongman. I'm assuming that roden does the kill so either cheeky is lying or they switched it up and had her do it. Thus I am assuming that scum is roden/cheeky but now the new Poe might be roden cheeky a50 dotw

I mean Nero and A50 have a mechanical 1v1 here unless there's somehow ANOTHER roleblocker type role that could have somehow prevented A50 from Jailkeeping Nero N2

[Dragon of the West]

ArcAngel9 has died during the night. She was a

Town Roaming Doctor

Spoiler: ArcAngel9

Large Normal With No Multiball

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Welcome, ArcAngel9! You are a

Town Roaming Doctor

, aligned with the

Town

.

Abilities:
• Each night, you may protect another player you haven't attempted to target before from a single kill that night.

Win Condition:

•

You win when there are no longer any threats to the

Town

, and at least one

Townie

is still alive.

Please confirm this Role PM by replying with your role and alignment.

Day 6 has begun!

VC 6.0

Not voting: Almost50, DrippingGoofball, Nero Cain, KittyTacky, Gamma Emerald, Dwlee99, CheekyTeeky, Dragon of the West

With 8 alive it takes 5 to exile.

Day 6 will end in (expired on 2021-09-06 17:30:00) or when an exile is reached.

WHAT???? Didn't we just lim the STRONGMAN? Mafia aren't even Multi-tasking by default, so even if the remaining Mafioso is a RB this should not have happened.

I mean this kill doesn't make sense from you because it implicates you. But killing the town doctor makes sense with a dead strongman. A50 - why do you think Nero's action didn't fail N2 if you targeted him?

[Dragon of the West]

Shrek, even when there was a guilty on you I kept reading your ISO thinking "THIS was scum?" You got unlucky with that

[Dragon of the West]

A50 - props on fighting until the end
DGB - really nice plays this game
Cheeky - sorry
Temporal Lich - thanks so much for modding!

[Dragon of the West]

Subject: Large Normal 235 - Mafia PT

How the hell is Nero scum reading nearly the entire scum team, we haven't even done anything lol

I mean he's not being taken seriously at least, but I'm not really sure how we're getting picked out so easily.

I'm actually just really good. You were buddying T3 and Shrek was fluff posting in lieu of content. Shreks later argument that we should be using are day elim to off lurkers was a super ant-town argument and Arc picked up on it too. Meg was being hesitant to vote me and saying that he'd vote me while saying that I haven't done anything scummy is talking out of both sides of his mouth. And blaming me for not being able to play was scummy (cheeky also picked up on this)

Was also pushing Titus/nom and I had sent in osuka as one of my final reads in 233. And even in 234 I had Titus and Hem. So I've had like 7 correct scumreads in my last 3 games...ofc I'm not always right but at the end of the day I'm still pretty solid/reliable

Add me to the Nero fan club. I'll be #2 fan behind Dwlee

[Dragon of the West]

Subject: Large Normal 235 - Mafia PT

How the hell is Nero scum reading nearly the entire scum team, we haven't even done anything lol

I mean he's not being taken seriously at least, but I'm not really sure how we're getting picked out so easily.

I'm actually just really good. You were buddying T3 and Shrek was fluff posting in lieu of content. Shreks later argument that we should be using are day elim to off lurkers was a super ant-town argument and Arc picked up on it too. Meg was being hesitant to vote me and saying that he'd vote me while saying that I haven't done anything scummy is talking out of both sides of his mouth. And blaming me for not being able to play was scummy (cheeky also picked up on this)

Was also pushing Titus/nom and I had sent in osuka as one of my final reads in 233. And even in 234 I had Titus and Hem. So I've had like 7 correct scumreads in my last 3 games...ofc I'm not always right but at the end of the day I'm still pretty solid/reliable

Add me to the Nero fan club. I'll be #2 fan behind Dwlee

I can make you a pin if you want

Yes pls